The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Anthony Richardson vs. Daniel Jones highlights the NFL's QB battles

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

We've got some honest-to-goodness quarterback battles to look forward to this summer, a few of which have real stakes for their teams and the league at large. Derrik Klassen, Mike Sando and Michael Beller dig into those battles—including the Colts, Giants, Saints, Browns and Steelers—and also touch on a few QB situations that aren't battles but they're still watching closely on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Hosts: Robert Mays and Derrik KlassenWith: Michael Beller and Mike SandoExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...⁠Apple⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠YouTube⁠Follow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Beller on Bluesky: @mbeller.bsky.socialFollow Sando on Bluesky: @sandonfl.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Sando on X: @SandoNFLTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I am not Robert Mays. I am Michael Beller, executive producer of the Athletic Football Show. And today, your guest host of the Athletic Football Show. Robert is on a much, much deserved, incredibly well-deserved vacation. So I'm going to be steering the ship today. I'm going to be joined by your typical TFS co-host, Derek Klass, and also Mike Sando from the Athletics NFL Newsroom.

We are going to be talking about the quarterback battles that we have on tap. for the 2025 season. We're going to run through five that are your more typical quarterback battles, Colts, Giants, Saints, Brown, Steelers. We'll see how typical that Steelers one is. Maybe by time you listen to this, let alone later on in the offseason. Then we're going to talk about four other situations that aren't really battles, but they were still going to be keeping an eye on through the summer and early on in the 2025 season. Thanks for being with us. Let's hear it right now on the athletic football show. Okay, let's get into this, you guys. As I said, off the top in the intro. We are without Robert Mace. He is on a well-deserved vacation. So we're going to be doing this

without our fearless leader, but I think we can handle it. First off, joining me, the usual co-host of the athletic football show. It is Derek Klaas and Derek, what's going on, man? I'm doing good. You know, I've gotten to the two, I've gotten used to the three-person show that we've been doing on the mailbags, but now we have a different three-person show. So it's, you know, we're, we're in the middle of the off season. So we're throwing things for a loop. But I'm excited for this one. This is what we do. This is what everyone does on May 28th when we are recording this, turn on any of your favorite NFL programs. You're probably going to see a guest or two mixed in.

And so that's what we've got here today on the athletic football show. This voice, however, familiar to Tafts listeners. It is Mike Sando. Sando. Thanks for being with us today, man. How are you doing? It's great to be. You know what they say?

If you have three hosts, you have no hosts, right? I think we're doing well, Bella. You're doing a great job. Good to be back on the show. Hope Robert's getting some sun somewhere, probably some good restaurants in there. and yeah the rest of us you know working stiffs just keep plugging along hey some of the teams that we're going to be talking about in this episode they're dealing with two they're dealing with three they're dealing with four hopefully

for them they find at least one guy who they can settle on feel good about whatever the case might be being where they are in their team builds as I said in the intro we are talking quarterback battles the legitimate quarterback battles that we have in the NFL this season. We're going to roll through them and we're going to ask basically two questions for most of these teams. There's going to be a little bit of difference for some of them. But for most when we're thinking, who's the starter in week one and who is the starter after Thanksgiving? I'm going to get out of the way. I'm going to let Derek and Sando do the heavy lifting here, but I'm going to pose the questions and we'll go through all these teams. We'll hit a few other

interesting quarterback situations at the end of the show after we get through the real quarterback battle. So guys, let's get rolling. Let's get with the one that is the truest quarterback battle that we have in the NFL, not only this season, but one of the truest that I remember in recent years. It is the Colts. It is Anthony Richardson versus Daniel Jones. Sando, you are the pure guest here. So we're going to start with you. Who do you like as the week one starter here? And then how likely do you think it is that that person remains the starter after Thanksgiving? I think it's Daniel Jones. I think he'll win the battle. I just don't see how Anthony Richardson suddenly becomes viable as an option. You know, the idea of

of Anthony Richardson is fun. Big athletic guy, you try to develop over time. They're running out of time. And sadly, their owner passed away too. So you don't know what, you already sort of felt like, hey, they've got to patch this together and try to get a playoff berth or be a competent team. We like Shane Steichen, but Anthony Richardson completing, you know, whatever, 40-some percent of his passes doesn't really understand the position.

I don't think he's not a bad guy or anything like that. But when he left the game against Houston, you can't do that. He just doesn't understand everything that comes with the position. So I think Daniel Jones understands that stuff better is a very poor man's Richardson in terms of he can move around a little bit. But I think there's going to be a consistency with him in camp, certainly a lower ceiling. But that's going to appeal to them to want to run their offense. So I would say pretty strongly he's going to win it. Now, the last couple of years, he hasn't started more than half the season.

So I think there is a decent chance that through injury, through the team being out of it, you know, needing to look at Richardson at some point that he could. I think Richardson is going to play at some point this year. So I may lean a little bit towards late in the season for whatever reason, poor performance injury. The season's gotten away from them. We need to look at Richardson. I could see that happening. I think it's kind of funny. You mentioned the comparison between the two because they really do have a lot of similarities in a lot of ways.

Neither of them are really that accurate. Obviously, it's more of an issue with Richardson, but I would even say for Jones, that's one of the weaker parts of his game. They're both prone to throwing the ball to the other team a little bit, and they're both actually really good athletes. If we remember in 20, was it 22 or 2023, that really good giant season where he was doing a lot of boot stuff,

some of the RPO's with the Giants. So they both are really good athletes. So maybe that's one of the nice things to be in Stuyken's position. I don't think this is an enviable position in general, but I do think there's a lot of overlap in terms that you would want to use both of these quarterbacks. I would imagine that the difference is probably just Jones is a little bit more comfortable with the RPO throws that they want to make, especially I think outside of the numbers.

So maybe that pushes them a little bit more towards Jones being the guy. And I do think Jones is probably a little bit more comfortable handling some of the pre-snap stuff just because, again, he's done it before. He's been around in the league for a long time. And the Colts also, it's important to note, are moved on from Ryan Kelly. this offseason who he was able to do a lot of that stuff previously for the last, you know, seven quarterbacks or however many it is that they've had over the last handful of years. Whereas now I think they're starting Tanner Bordellini at Center who I think promising young

player, but probably not as capable of handling all the mental stuff. So I could see that pushing them towards Jones, but I just feel like when you draft the quarterback this high, you got to give him at least one more chance, especially since it is the same coaching staff. If it was a different coaching staff, I might think a little bit differently. I imagine we'll get Anthony Richardson week one starter. The Thanksgiving cutoff is where I think it starts to get a little bit icky. Like if they're, you know, five and seven by that point,

because I think it's like around week 12, 13, then I would be kind of surprised if we still have Richardson in the lineup. It's interesting. They have a week 11 buy and then visit the chiefs on November 23rd. So I don't know if that's the time to put in a new quarterback, but that is when their bias. So you could kind of see maybe, you know, at that time of the year, we're talking Thanksgiving. That's right around Thanksgiving week.

I actually kind of like that cutoff because not in terms of putting in a new starter, but just in terms of, in my mind, the way I would want to handle this is to really give Richardson one last good opportunity because winning nine games doesn't really do anything for you as the Colts, in my opinion. And so I would want to give Richardson the run. And so I actually think the biweek is nice because even if it's not going all that well for the first eight to 10 weeks, you get them the biweek and then you have two games against really good teams. they have the Chiefs and then I think right after that they have the Texans. If it's like, okay, you get the by week and then you have those two games and you still can't contend against the good teams, then I'm fine pulling the plug. But I would at least try to give him every opportunity to succeed until then.

All right, Sandel, so let's say you're right. Daniel Jones ends up starting week one for the Colts. Even if Anthony Richardson ends up starting at some point this season, if they deem Daniel Jones a training camp quarterback battle winner over Anthony Richardson, that might be the end of the line for Richardson and Indy. So what, where does he go from here? Obviously, we'd be talking about just what, the fourth year of his rookie contract in 2026, but what would be next for him in your mind if he does get beat out by Daniel Jones in a city that was willing to make him the fourth overall pick in the draft just a couple of years ago? Yeah, you would think somebody who wants to

have a run-based offense may give him a look, you know, is there, you know, I've always thought like an Andy Reid is the salvager of quarterbacks. I just don't know in this case. I think that Anthony Richardson hasn't shown that he's ready to be a quarterback yet and just lead a team. So does he fit in with somebody who has, you know, a Greg Roman type of a guy as a backup? Is he, you know, Seattle's kind of could be heading that direction in the future. You know, obviously Baltimore's there a little bit. They signed Cooper Rush. So maybe it's, you know, down the road type of a thing.

but I just don't necessarily see a lot of people wanting to, I think he was a major reach in the draft. And I'm just not sure there's a lot of, I know there's not a lot of optimism for him because I talk to a lot of people in the league. I know Howie Roseman. He's just based on the talent, seems like a swing that they would like to take.

Plus, they just always like taking in quarterbacks anyway, regardless of where they come from. That's a great one. Yeah, I love that one. If they were willing to do it with like Kenny Pickett, right? I'm sure they would spend a one year on Anthony Richardson, just see if they can garner up some optimism and flip him for a fourth round, fifth round pick, whatever it is. So that one could make sense to me.

But I do think it's history because I think in my mind when I think of like Uber talented quarterback who didn't turn out to be what we wanted, it's either Justin Fields or like Trey Lance. But I think kind of the difference there is Fields is more accurate than either of those guys, but also kind of to your point of Richardson, maybe not getting the position yet and just maybe there's some other struggles. It seems like everybody in the world loves being around Justin Fields. And I do think that if you're a quarterback in this position, that's a helpful thing.

And I think that's part of the differentiating factors here. Yeah, you mentioned Trey Lance. That's not a – you don't want to be compared to him. But the market for him was nothing, you know. And he didn't play as much. And Anthony Richland has shown some things. You know, I look at, you know, Green Bay signed Malik Willis as their backup. So, you know, is that the type of place where you could get somebody in there?

It's a totally different offense when he goes in. But your coach has shown an ability to do that at least on a backup basis, a short-term basis. Last thing here for the sake of being comprehensive on the Colts. Derek, can we make anything of this team using a six-round pick on Riley Leonard? If only for again, I think it actually plays into the fact that like if Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones have some degree of overlap in terms of their physical skills cuts and some of the throws they want to make, I think Riley Leonard is actually in the same bucket. He to me is like when I watched him, I was like, oh, that's like if Daniel Jones just didn't throw the ball at the other team.

And so I think there's something to that in terms of just playable guy, but I'd be shocked if he got much time this year. All right, guys. Let's move on to the New York Giants here. Now, this one feels like maybe the cleanest battle that we're used to seeing in the NFL where Veteran X ends up as the starter early in the season, knowing that they are eventually turning the job over to rookie first. round pick why at some point. But things happen in training camp. Things happen during the season.

We saw this play out a little bit with Sam Darnel and J.J. McCarthy. Pre-McCarthy injury last year where we weren't exactly sure if and when Darnold could be turning the job over to Minnesota. So as clean as it might seem, maybe it doesn't go that way. Derek, we're going to go to you with this one first in New York Giants. Russell Wilson and Jackson Dart. Week one starter, post- Thanksgiving starter. What are you looking at here? So I think like you said, it's definitely going to be Russell Wilson, he's just, he was brought in to obviously be the week one guy. And then I think we all knew, even if, if you were an optimistic dart person heading into the draft, I think we all knew that he was probably going to be a guy who was going to take time. And that's fine. I think what

complicates like a when is he going to go in is, have you guys seen the giant schedule? I was posting. I saw you talking about it today. I was posting about this right before we went on to recording because I hadn't looked at many team schedules yet. It is a murderers row before week 12, which is like kind of our Thanksgiving cutoff. They have four division games, which that's a tough division, and they get Philly twice in that span. They get the Chiefs, the Chargers, the Broncos, the 49ers, and the entire NFC North outside of the Vikings.

The only other game on there that I didn't mention was they get the Saints. Yeah, they get the Vikings late in the year too. Yeah, right. And they get the Vikings eventually later in the year. So it's like, but they start the season with like 11 losses, basically. And so I just, it's one of those things where I wonder like, I know we all want to say like, oh, they'll get to the bye week and then they'll put the new guy in. But I just, I feel like after week four or five when they're when they're really scrambling, I feel like he's just going to get thrown into the fire. So I think it's going to be DART by Thanksgiving just by virtue of like, I think this staff in this front office is, you know, playing and fighting for their job.

And at, you know, a certain point, you just get desperate and you throw the young guy in. Now they have James Winston on the roster too. That's also true. We'll see if that stays, but is he a plan? Do they make this a three-tier thing where, hey, Wilson sort of gets moved on from, you know, at a certain point, they go a few games with Winston and then try to put Dart in. One of the interesting things, at least to me, is I love to look at the history. So, Dart in the salary cap era since 2000.

Well, I'll tell you, first off, I think Wilson starts and I think Dart will play late in the year. So I'm going to answer the question. But he is the 16th first round quarterback taken 20th or later in the salary cap era. So of the other 15, only four were named starters as rookies. And you're going to forgive me for some of these names. Kenny Pickett, Bridgewater, Brandon Whedon, and Patrick Ramsey, okay? Seven were named starters in year two. Lamar, Mansell, Tebow, Brady Quinn, Jason Campbell, JP Lossman, Rex Grossman, a lot of great names.

Two were named starters in year four, Jordan Love and Rogers. They had the great quarterbacks in place, though. Two never became a starter at all, Paxon Lynch, Jim Druckenmiller. So as you look at those names, you really realize what a long shot it is to draft a quarterback at the back end of the first round and have them become anything. You know, we're really talking about of the guys that got long-term deals, second deals with their teams. It's Jordan Love, Lamar, and Aaron, Rogers. The other guys are picket. There's 12-00 guys.

Kenny Pickett, Paxton Lynch, Mansell, Bridgewater, Weiden, Tebow, Quinn, Campbell, Lossman, Grossman, Ramsey, Druckin Miller. That's a lot of guys who were not good quarterbacks. So the odds, I would say the odds of Jackson Dart being ready to play this year are low. The odds of him becoming a good quarterback are low. And so yet you have this regime that probably may need to play him at some point late in the year to show that he's got something, right? if you could build some momentum with him late in the year, you know, maybe that buys you some time, gives you a chance. That will be very, just a very interesting, potentially dicey thing in light of the schedule and in light of his probable lack of readiness to be good right away.

I agree with all of that, which is why I'm very scared that he's going to get thrown in a little bit too early. And you mentioned, you know, Bella, you mentioned that those are all unique cases, the guy who turned who turned out well. Like you said, Sando, Love and Rogers, they got to sit behind really good quarterbacks in organizations that have been, I mean, good since we started calling at the NFL, even before we started calling at the NFL. So like that helps. And then the other guy is Lamar Jackson, who I know Jackson DART has some tools.

You know, he's got a good arm. He can run. He's not Lamar Jackson where he has some of the best tools that we've ever seen at the position. And so that's the type of guy that can get away with being a little bit more of a long shot at the position, so to speak. And so, yeah, I'm with you. Great organizations with long-term plans, stability at head coach, long runways.

You know, hey, we can bring this guy around. Not only that, we have the capabilities in Baltimore to change our whole system and let him develop as a pastor and then change it again. And he's an MVP, right? So I think those are totally better situations with better players, better talents than Jackson Dart. So I did like the way the Giants maneuvered and didn't take him earlier, but the likelihood of this working out is probably lower than, you know, they realize. That's where I'm at. It makes more sense that they took him where they did instead of, you know,

I don't know, either trading back from three or trading back up into the top 10. But I'm with you that based on where you take these guys at the back end of the first round, it's really not much of a better bet than taking a guy on day two, truthfully. Sam, you've seen this plenty of times in all your time covering the NFL. How much would you expect the motivation, the understandable motivation that Joe Shane and Brian Dable are going to enter this season with to keep their jobs to push their decision on this? If, as Derek said, I mean, at Washington, at Dallas, versus Kansas City, versus the Chargers at the Saints versus the Eagles. Those are the first six games for this New York Giants team. Let's say they come out of that one and five.

Let's give them a win against the Saints just for the hell of it. How much is the motivation to keep the job, push them to move to say, hey, this guy. who we picked, this guy we maneuvered up smartly to picking the back in the first round, he can be the guy here. You've got to feel really good about him because after those first six games, they play at Denver and at Philly. I mean, shoot, those are top five defenses last time I looked, right? So I think you'd really have to feel good about them to do it.

Otherwise, I think you've got to wait. We're going to go into our first break and then we'll come back with three more looks at teams who have quarterback battles going into the 2025 season. The French Open underway in Paris previously at the Athletic. That hadn't necessarily met much, at least in the podcast world. But that is no longer the case because we are excited to welcome the tennis podcast to the athletic podcast network. Catherine Whitaker, David Law and Matt Roberts take you inside the tournament with daily reports on location at Roland Garros. They have you covered on the great performances and potential big upsets with their unique humor.

Check out the tennis podcast wherever you get your podcasts. All right, guys, next up here. is the New Orleans Saints. Now we'll go back to what about a week before the draft, the big Derek Carr news that he's going to be injured, going to be missing the entire 2025 season. Then on top of that, the retirement of Derek Carr. So we now know that we are looking at Tyler Shuck and Spencer Rattler, at least as it sits right now in New Orleans. Sando, what are you looking at for the Shuck Rattler battle? Who do you like for week one? Who do you like later into the season? I kind of think they turn it over to Shuck. Now, I could be wrong on that because this is interesting. I spoke with an

agent yesterday who thought the Saints starting quarterback might not even be on the roster. This is a franchise that continually tries to push, including when they reworked Derek Carr's contract early this off season. They kicked the can down the road when they thought he was going to be in the mix. So everything about their history has been, we're going to push, and you're not really pushing if you're putting a rookie second round pick in there for week one, right? I don't think Rattler's necessarily the answer either. I think I think Shuck's going to get every chance. I do think at this point, he would be my leader in the clubhouse to start. He is older, probably a little more mature than some young guys in there.

And to bet on him still being in the lineup late in the year, I mean, I don't necessarily see Rattler beating him out or being a better option, but, man, a lot of things can happen with a guy who hasn't played much before, has never played in the NFL. And so you would have to think that Chuck's not starting 17 games, right? something's going to happen. He's had injury issues in the past. But I think right now I would think that All Signs point to him being their guy. I would like that for them a little bit in this sense that I feel like we've been waiting

for them to reset a little bit. And even if they have to take their lumps, right? I liked them this year. They had extra draft picks in the third and fourth rounds. It sort of looked like more of a long-term build. But I think the Saints still have to prove that they have that in their DNA. And they're not going to do something else. Right, like one half of an offseason where they're a little bit patient doesn't necessarily

override the decades long of doing what they've done. But I think I'm with you on the quarterback competition. You know, I'm still holding out some hope for Spencer Rattler not to be like some great quarterback. But I do think that there were flashes last year where he did some really good stuff. And I think his arm is amazing. He's just one of those guys who's a little bit more aggressive than he should and thinks he's a better athlete than he is.

And so he can run himself into some trouble. And I think that does make for an interesting quarterback contrast between Tyler Shuck, who I think is really talented. His arm is awesome. He's a pretty good athlete. But he's not like as creative or aggressive as I think a guy like Rattler is. He's a little bit more, you know, one, two, three, get to the top of my drop. All right, we're checking the ball down if it's not there.

And I think early in camp, I think we're going to see some real competition. And I think we'll probably see some flashes from Rattler, maybe even the preseason where it looks like he could be more exciting. But I think ultimately when it comes down to it, Kellyn Moore is going to a little. want to start Tyler Shuck for more games than not. And so like you said, maybe there's a couple injury games, you know, here and there where he misses. But I think if I were to set the, you know, over under on Tyler Shuck starts, it's probably

13 and a half. I would guess that he's going to be the guy. So it's going to be interesting number, 13 and a half. That's, you're very, it sounds like you really had a model here for this. Yeah, trying to, trying to think it out a little bit. You guys both get at this a little bit. And I think it's worth getting a finer point on it. This feels as though it is a

QB competition, assuming they don't add someone Sando and I do want to come back to that, but this feels as though, Derek, it is a QB competition in name only. The Saints are almost pot committed to Tyler Shuck being the guy this season, even if it results in

a season where they're not really competitive in the NFC South or in the NFC wildcard race at large. It just feels to me as we get into this year that it has to be shuck at least to start the season given the draft capital spend on him, given what they were thrown into with Derek Carr's retirement, that it is a Shuck unless Rattler absolutely blows us away,

or Shuck totally falls flat on his face in the summer sort of situation. I think that's what it is. It's unless Rattler takes some huge step or Shuck is just not nearly as mature and put together as we think that he is. And I don't mean, like, as a guy, I just mean like as a player. And I do think that when you spend a second round pick on a guy and you're walking in as the new coaching staff, you definitely want, I think you want. that guy to win the job. I think you want him to go be the guy. And I do think if Kellamore stepped into the job believing that Derek Carr was going to be there and was going to be the guy,

and whether or not that was true, who knows, he was probably formulating the offense around that. And I do think that Tyler Shuck brings a lot more Derek Carr-like qualities to the offense and to the way that he plays than a guy like Spencer Rattler does. And so from that perspective, it might be easier for him to put it together. So I think like you said, it's unless something pretty dramatic happens one way or the other, this should be Tyler. shuck. All right, Sandus, so let's get back to that point. The Saints, they don't like to take years off. So we know there are two big names out there. One of them's linked entirely to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Kirk Cousins is the other one, of course. That one, Aaron Rogers, I think we all know that.

Is there a move to be made for the Saints? Is there something to be done? Hard to imagine the Falcons making a Kirk Cousins trade in division at this point in the season. But is there something to be done where it is veteran TBD. Maybe it is a Cousin's trade that surprises us or someone else who is out there for the Saints where they are not starting Tyler Schum. I think it's a potential veteran later who isn't necessarily seen as a starter when they get him but gives them something more than what they have at the position. Does that make sense? I don't think they're going to make a move to get somebody to usurp Shuck necessarily. But, you know, if there were, there definitely could be a veteran come along who's cut or something,

you know, and Kellen Moore likes him and he feels like, hey, you know what, if something happened to Shuck, I'd feel better with this guy than Rattler. I think that's the more likely. And as I went back and forth with the agent yesterday, I said, who would be a good candidate for them? He said, not sure, but this is a team that is in cap hell every year, but still goes for. Just don't see them relying solely on a rookie. And that's kind of where I feel. The agent's saying, not sure. Well, that means we don't really have a guy.

You can't name who it is, but it's probably not this. I don't think this will be the exact group that they go into the season with, but I don't think it changes my opinion on Chuck being the guy. Makes sense? Can I interest anyone at Desmond Ritter, New Orleans Saints Quarter, Oh, man. Once upon a time for me, but I, that story book is closed, unfortunately. All right. Let's get to the next one here. This one's going to be a little bit different. We're going to talk about the Cleveland Browns. We got Joe Flacko, Kenny Pickett, Dylan Gabriel, Shudur Sanders, all in the mix here. I think we're all going to assume that Joe Flacco is the week one starter. I think we're all going to assume that more than one quarterback will start a game for the Cleveland Browns this season. So Sando, instead of doing the week one, the late season, construction that we've been talking about with these other teams. Who do you think ends up starting the most games at quarterback for the Cleveland

Browns this year? It could be Flacco in like a plurality, you know, like when you have three candidates in a race and no one gets the majority, but someone has to have the most. That could be the situation for them. I would think Flacco is going to go into the years the starter. And look, the quarterbacks they drafted were third and fifth round. These are not like, it's not the same as taking one at the top of the second round or Jackson Dart, right? I mean, there's a reason they acquired a first round pick for next year, too,

right? It's because these are not necessarily solving the position in Dylan Gabriel and Schuarder. Sure, maybe one of them does, but, you know, I would think that Flacco would be their guy for a while. I don't necessarily see Pickett even being in the mix necessarily. They'd probably keep those other two guys. And then, you know, I think a lot of us feel that, hey, Sanders would have had the higher grade than Gabriel and maybe he would, you know, get the chance. But they showed us who they liked to the most. At least my perception would be that the coaching staff probably liked Gabriel more. And that, you know, when they made the move for Sanders, which didn't make a lot of sense, you know, that it could have been someone in the front office saying, hey, or ownership saying,

hey, the value's too great. We got to take this guy. And so my guess would be that the coaching staff would go to Gabriel next, just be my guess. I think I agree with that. And I probably think that Flacco is going to start the most games. The reason being one, he's going to obviously start from week one. So there's at least some percentage chance that the offense is actually decent with him behind there. I think that's probably not going to be the case. But I do think he's at least the most mature guy.

I also think just in terms of skill set and the throws that he wants to make, he actually makes the most sense for Stefansky. Like when in my mind, when I think of the Stefansky offense, there are a lot more. deep dropback, get under center, play action stuff, throw it down the field. I think he's better at that than Shudor Sanders. I think he's better at that than Dylan Gabriel. And certainly can he pick it? And so I think pretty much for that reason, I expect him to hold the job. I think when you turn to the rookies, Gabriel probably has the best skill set for some of the

RPO and Quick Game stuff that they were doing with Sean Watson, which I don't know how much of that they even want to do, but I think at least, you know, Gabriel does have that skill set in him. It's an interesting team to look at because Robert talks about this a lot. and so I'm going to steal this from him, right? A lot of the offensive line is going to turn over after the season, or at least potentially could turn over. Wyatt Teller, Joe Petonio, Ethan Poachich, these are guys who are all free agents after this season.

David Joku is a free agent after this season. They just signed Jerry Judy to an extension, so he will be here. But it's a team that, you know, we are used to them being what they've been on offense, a team that we felt was well built, but never was able to solve the quarterback position. and that is maybe changing after this year. They do, it seems, have an ability to make a hard reset across the board after this season. They made a couple of moves on offense in the draft that are not the quarterbacks, Quinn John Judkins, Harold Fanon, so guys who could be longer term building blocks for them

in the right situation where they are able to solve the quarterback situation. Sandra, do you think that is a way, that is a reality for them that influences the way they go about deciding who gets the snaps at quarterback this season. Yeah, in terms of, hey, we may be in a rebuild mode coming after this, and so go with one of these young guys at a certain point. Whatever the answer is, I guess at the end of that, is it influenced by the realities of what their roster is right now and how much turnover could be coming from them,

whether they like it or not after this season? Yeah, I think that it could be. I mean, we saw them last year. I mean, last year, shoot, they did not put their best quarterback in there late in the year. Would you agree with that? It was sort of an interesting move for them. And so I think they tried to get a higher pick. And I think they've telegraphed a little bit by getting the first round pick next year.

And we know when Deshaun Watson comes off the books. They took a couple flyers on quarterbacks this year. But, you know, I think they've, they have shown more than most teams, whether you like the plan or not. It's hard to like it right now of the way. that it has turned out, but that that seems to be a long runway thinking ahead place, doesn't it? Where they're taking into account some of those things and where they're going to be in the future. Otherwise, they would be like a lot of teams who would be like, hey, Stefanski had a losing year, he's out, right?

That's why, really, most teams operate, and they haven't done that. They've really, to me, shown that they're thinking longer term. They really have given Stefansky a longer leash than most. losing coaches would get. And I actually love Stefansky, so I think it's been fine. He's really good. It's just when that's your quarterback situation, it's, you know, can only win so many games. The thing that I, you know, kind of was thinking about Belor is actually in my mind,

because they're so forward thinking, I think it would be easy to be like, oh, just throw some of the young guys in and see if one's good. I almost wonder if they value making sure that Judkins has good reps and that Cedric Tillman, who's a young receiver, has good reps. And Jamari Thrash was going to play a lot for them. they drafted Harold Fanon. I almost wonder if they want Joe Flacco in there more because he's at least some degree of veteran

who can glue this together where if you have all those other younger guys and then a third or fifth round rookie at quarterback, that seems like a degree of volatility that I just don't know if they're willing to take on. All right guys, last one here, the Pittsburgh Steelers. Now this one, it's a little different. Let's be honest.

It's a little different than what we've been talking about with these other four teams. Right now, we've got Mason Rudolph and Will Howard as the top two quarterbacks on the unofficial depth chart. Been a lot of talk about Aaron Rogers eventually joining this team. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. We've talked about that enough.

Maybe not as much as other other shows have talked about it. We've talked about it enough. Derek, you have made the case that you want to see this team go get Kirk Cousins. We talked about that in our what buyer saw off season episode that the Steelers were part of. So if you want a little bit more on that, you can go ahead and check that out. Sandell, we're going to start with you since Derek's got to have plenty of say on this topic on this show. Instead of the construction we've been talking about here, like, what, what's the answer for

the Steelers? I mean, do they do they do they do they do. The Rogers thing? It certainly they've trended in that direction a little bit. Is that the best thing for this team to do this season? Do they, are you with Derek? Do they make the cousins move? Do they at least pick up the phone and call Atlanta and see what the cousins move would require?

What should this team be doing? Yeah. I might like the cousins move more. but, you know, just because the Rogers fatigue is real, and I don't see the fit. I just don't see, you know, when you, Rogers everywhere he's gone has had, you know, a lot of say. I think that was an issue late in his tenure with Mike McCarthy. It was an issue, you know, of conflict somewhat in with Matt LaFleur, and they got rid of him. And then he brings all of his people into the jets.

Since when do you ever get the feeling that Aaron Rogers? Rogers is going to go in there and fit in on a system. I just don't see this as being a great fit. It looks like nothing more than a stopgap one year, upgrade over the Mason Rudolph, but to get what? To get where? Are they really going to make a huge deep push in AFC with Rogers? I don't really see that at this stage. I think it just looks like a difficult situation to manage without the upside that you would hope and without any future. So to me, if Kirk Cousins were healthy and you could get that kind of verified, you know, that could have a little bit more appeal

for the offense they want to run, fitting in with the team. And look, if he were to get healthy, maybe you get two years out of Kirk Cousins and it gives you a little bit more time to line up your next guy. Whereas Rogers, when he's there, it's all about Rogers.

Does that seem like a Pittsburgh thing? It just doesn't seem like it to me. Sando, that is to the T how I think about all of this stuff. Like I just won, you know, we can do that is Kirk Cousin's going to be healthy, but I think at this stage in the career, I'm not sure that Aaron Rogers is consistently going to be healthy either. And so I think that that's certainly a factor. And then you mention he's, it's the Aaron Rogers system when you bring him in.

And I'm with you. Like I just struggled to see that really working with Tomlin and with Arthur Smith. I just, that seems like a weird clash. Whereas I look at Kirk, seems like a much more, you know, amenable guy. and especially, I think he just makes sense for Arthur Smith's offense. So I just feel like we're going to get to a point in this offseason where, I don't know, maybe it's, you know, middle of July and the Falcons are like, all right, we'll eat a few more million dollars if the Steelers are willing to throw us a bone here.

And I just, I feel like that's where we're going to arrive. So you think then that they won't have, that Rogers won't have even be signed by then? I don't think so. I just, maybe I'm like doing a little bit too much of like how I would handle. the Rogers situation, but I just can't imagine as a team, even if I'm desperate, signing 40-some-odd-year-old Aaron Rogers who isn't already in the building by the end of May. Like, that just scares me. I would, it's just not, I'm kind of with you where I just struggle to see what is even the upside of something like that, whereas at least with Kirk Cousins, even if you are still trying to

thread a needle, right, with an older player, injury, all that stuff, I can at least see the upside and I think it's a little bit more easy to stomach for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I question the fit too. Everything I've heard makes it seem like it's still going to be Rogers. But at a certain point here, when is that point where it just feels like it's almost too late? I don't think we're quite there yet. But, you know, we're going to go into mandatory camps and stuff as we get into June. And I think you at that point, you know, come on.

There's a question of like to what end for the Steelers also when you when you are looking at these guys. This is a team that we know. is always going to be competitive. They've always been competitive. They've always been on the fringes, if not sneaking into the playoff picture, as they've done the last couple of seasons. And then you get into the playoffs,

and it's an easy one and done. You can see that. You look at, you still look at this AFC gauntlet where you're going through, where you know you're going to have to go through Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen.

Maybe the Bengals get in this year. You're talking about going through Joe Burrow as well. You got what the Texans are doing, with an offense that, you know, whether it bounces back or not, has plenty of talent on it and then a great defense. There's a lot to get through in the AFC.

And the Steelers have never been able to do that in these recent years as they've been trying to piece together the quarterback situation with a number of different guys thrown in there. Do Rogers or Cousins change that equation for you, Sando? I mean, I think they're better than what they have. Certainly, I don't think that they change the equation in terms of them contending. We're seriously contending. Like, could you win a playoff game? with Aaron Rogers. I do think you could, but it's going to be driven by the team and the defense and

him managing it, right, more than the Rogers that I think that, you know, we were accustomed to in the past. I think he can still lead a two-minute offense, and I would probably, in any one game or series or whatever, I'd rather have him than anyone else they've got there. But I don't think it changes the math in the AFC at all, really, with either one of those guys. You know, Pittsburgh has just been so casual about the quarterback situation. Really, you can say going back a lot of years, they had been Rutherstberger, but before that, they were always content to just sort of ride with a guy, you know, in the old McDonald's of the world and whatnot. So when you have 21 consecutive non-losing seasons, I think it's real easy. And you have three coaches in 55 years.

I think it's really easy to, I mean, is the word complacent come in at a certain point of time? Like, who else would take this approach to the quarterback position this casually? Right? I mean, teams are like, shoot, we got to get Jackson Dart. I was going to say, shuck. Yeah, usually teams are too far on the opposite where they're too flippant to take guys and take chances that that don't deserve to be taken as hired, you know, in free agency, maybe as it don't deserve as much money as they should. Whereas the Steelers are the opposite. They're like, yeah, we'll figure it out.

And I understand, I get why they think that because I think at a lot of other positions, they have been able to do that for a long time. Like they can just kind of make something out of nothing. But this is kind of the one position where that doesn't really work. And I do think they need to be a little bit more aggressive. So I'm probably with you that neither of these guys really changed their ability to contend. But I think if both of them are just going to be, if we win a playoff game, it has to be them managing the offense and all this stuff, yada, yada.

I would just rather have Kirk for that. Like, I just think he does it better at this stage in his career. And I think, again, he's just a little bit of an easier guy to have. around. All right. We are going to take one final break in this episode. Then we'll be back with a couple of situations that aren't exactly week one battles, but worth keeping in mind as we start getting into the mandatory part of the summer. Okay, so not a week one battle, but let's start with the Seattle Seahawks. Now, obviously, this is not going to be any question about who is starting there. Sam Darnold will be the starter in Seattle. But it is worth considering that they went out. They

brought back Drew Locke to be the backup there. They used a third run pick on Jalen Milrow. So there is something there where it's like, yeah, Sam's our guy, but, you know, if and when they've got some things that they could do. So Derek, what are you looking at when you think about Seattle's quarterback situation as we get toward the start of the season? Yeah, so I understand that I am a little bit more on the not believing in Sam

Darnold side of a lot of this or really just not believing in the Seahawks offense in general. But I do think almost no matter what, he is at least going to be the starter for the first, you know, 10 weeks. Like even if it's like kind of a train wreck or kind of what it was in Carolina, I think he'll still be the guy for at least 10 weeks. And I also think it does bring in a complication of like the defense might be so good that even if the offense isn't that good, that they'll still just keep the quarterback in there because they're actually winning enough games anyway. So I do think that that's part of it. But I think because they drafted Milro and because when

you look at the Sam Darnold contract, it's really more of a deal that they can get out of after the first year. I just wonder if there's a percentage chance that maybe Milro is 15% more ready than we thought he was going to be. And, you know, maybe the Seahawks are sitting at five and five halfway through the year. They have, you know, the 25th best offense in the league because things haven't coalesced. Is there just a chance that they think Milro is the guy who can give them a little bit of a boost? So again, I think that's like a far out possibility. But it's just, you know, something that I think I'm keeping in mind, especially with, I do think. I do think, some of the rollout stuff that they're going to want to do in this offense make sense for Jalen Milrow.

So it's, again, I understand I have a lot more skepticism heading into the Darnold thing and heading into this, but I just think it's at least something to keep the radar on. They're totally relying on their system and running the ball more to help their offensive line. And now they drafted an offensive lineman in the first round too, and make it easier on the quarterback and not ask them to do what they asked Gino Smith to do, which was. you know, 70-some percent, top 10 in the league for shotgun rates. You know, their passing rate on early downs when tied or leading was really high, one of the highest in the league.

And I think with the defensive coach, they really want to, you know, put the reins on it a little bit. And I think from that standpoint, I like the change to Kubiak. I think Kubiak does help align the philosophy of the head coach, Mike McDonald, with the offensive coordinator. I think that's going to be good for them. I think it will be good and easier for the offensive line. I think it'll be good for Kenneth Walker. You can see him becoming a little bit more decisive, maybe a one-cut runner.

I think he could have a good year. So I think that in some ways they on paper maybe have less talent on offense, trading D.K. Metcalfe, depending on what you think of Geno Smith versus Sam Darnold, who I think you have to at least admit, Donald is more volatile. You know what you're going to get from Gino, and it's pretty good. You hope it's good with Darnold, but it might be bad. There's a better chance of that. So I think that Milro becomes, to me, really interesting as a potential starter after this year.

I think that is a possibility. I think that's an interesting question to ask people, you know, even in the league, hey, Donald starts this year. He probably is a starter. Milro is probably not ready to take over, but they're going to play Milro. They're going to have him in there. And he seems to really be put together kind of mentally, emotionally, just psychologically, right? So I think it's interesting. And I think he is a factor for them,

probably not this year as a starter, but I think he's in the picture. I'm glad you bring that up with Milro, though, is because, you know, none of us actually know these guys, but it just seems like everything that people say about Milro is they just love the guy. They love how hard he works. And there is, at least part of me that wonders like, okay, once he gets to the NFL and gets in like a relatively put-together system with Kuwbiak, maybe he just, takes to it better than he did at some of the stuff that they were doing at Alabama. And so, again, all of what I'm saying with Milro starting at some point this year is definitely a far out thing. I don't think it's going to happen. But because I think he's just so talented and I'm more

skeptical of what they're starting with week one, it's at least like in the back of my mind. The New York Jets, the next team we're going to talk about here. This team, of course, guaranteed Justin Fields $30 million in the offseason. It's a two-year deal. Tyra Taylor, however, is among the league's most capable backups. That's something that we talk about. A lot with him. We've talked about it in multiple stops. So Sando, as we head in this direction that we're going, where do you thinking about with the New York Jets quarterback situation? I was surprised they paid Justin Fields what they paid him. He wasn't on my radar as someone who was going to get that kind of money. But to me, that's a pretty hefty commitment.

I think the commitment is to a style of play. I think it's a style of play that Fields can run and Tyrod Taylor can't, frankly. I think they're going to be a team with Aaron Glenn that wants to win with defense and a quarterback run game probably that suits Justin Fields. So that commitment to me financially says that Fields is going to be their guy. I know that he lost his job at a certain point last year, but the Steelers weren't in on him in the same degree. They weren't committed to him in the same way.

So I don't know if Tyrod Taylor is a shiny enough object at this point for me, if I'm them, to want to go to him unless Fields is terrible, which is possibility. He really, you know, he hasn't proven himself over the course of a whole season to be a a good pastor, but I would think they've got to have a plan for him to run the offense that only he can run. That's kind of where my head is at. And I think because Aaron Glenn is coming from the stop that he's coming from in Detroit, and I'm not saying the Jets are going to build up the team the way that Detroit did and have this run or anything like that, but I think he at least saw what it looks like to have some patience in terms of team building and understand how to put this thing together. And I think

them making the financial commitment to fields and just saying and trying to take some of the mental pressure off of fields of hey you're fighting for your job or you know when he was in chicago it was hey you're kind of fighting for the coaching staff's job because they it all the the weird uh in terms of you know who was getting drafted when with the head coach's timeline there so i think him having a slightly higher degree of stability here um with what he's getting in the starting job and with the jets i think is honestly nice and so i like tyrod taylor if he has he has has to start a few games this year. I'm sure he'll be fine. But I kind of agree with you, Mike. I think they went out to get field specifically because they wanted to run the offense a certain

way, which was use his legs a little bit, run the ball a lot. We're going to throw the ball 24 times a game because we have one good pass catcher, hopefully too. Maybe Mason Taylor really gives you something, but they've got more good running backs than they have good past catchers. And you add Justin Fields on top of that. This is definitely a team that's going to want to run the ball. And so, And I also, I know the Jets defense was not great last year, but I think that was a lot of like, there was a mutiny once they fired Robert Sala. I trust Aaron Glenn's ability to get them back to playing to at least like a top 10 level again. So you add that on top of the way that they're going to run the ball. It's at least an interesting situation to keep an eye on, but I'm looking forward to 17 games of Justin Fields.

Yeah, with Tyrod Tater, too, I wonder if he's, he started five games in the last three years. I remember joking with Trent Dilfer about this. Like there's a certain point in your career when you can be a backup forever until you have to play. And then you get found out. Like Tyrod Taylor is going to be 36 in August. Like I just don't know if he's the Tyrod Taylor that we were thinking about, you know, really he hasn't been a starter since 2017. Mm-hmm. So.

And the last time he was in 2021 with the Texans, but he got hurt and missed like six weeks and then never won the job back. Yeah. I think that was the Davis Mills here. He was two and four as a starter with five touchdowns, five interceptions, and a, you know, completed 60% of his passes. So I don't know what type of an option he is for more than a couple games. Let's move this along to the Minnesota Vikings. We know J.J. McCarthy is going to be the starter for this team. Sam Howell. And as the backup, Derek, everyone agrees. This is one of the best infrastructures offensively.

the league. This is probably one of the best rosters top to bottom offensively and defensively in the league. This is a 14 win team a season ago, lay out in the playoffs, but still a 14 win season and an earned 14 wins. This was a team that was this close to having home field advantage in the NFC going into the playoffs and then a week later their season is over. So what are you looking at with this quarterback situation going into the start of the year? Yeah, with the environment, I think if you dropped any of the top 10 quarterbacks in the league, however you want to dice them up, they would all win the MVP in this offense. Like I really think it's going to be, especially going into this year where the offensive line, I think is going to be even better

especially along the interior. The thing that I find fascinating about this quarterback situation is like you said, I think at this point, it's pretty clearly going to be J.J. McCarthy. I just feel like the vibes around the whole J.J. McCarthy thing are a little bit weird for a guy they clearly spent so much draft capital to get. One, because they were toying around with the Aaron Rogers thing, I think, for a little bit. They were at least flirting with it. I don't know how serious the interest was, but it was a little bit weird to me that they didn't immediately slam the door when that was on the table. And so I thought that was interesting. They obviously then trade for Sam Howell, who I don't think is a better quarterback than J.J. McCarthy, but with how obsessed Kevin O'Connell

seems to be with reviving quarterback's careers, I find that one, the Sam Howell trade mildly interesting. And then the last thing to me is with J.J. McCarthy, we're getting a guy who never had that much of the burden of the offense on him in college. And obviously he made some good throws and some good plays and had some potential. But it was never a super high volume guy. And to me, was always going to take time to really become a good player. And now he's coming off of a knee injury in which during his recovery apparently lost 20 pounds. And obviously he's a pro athlete. He can put that weight on.

But that's just a weird and crazy fluctuation for a guy who was. already on the skinnier side for quarterback. So I just feel like there's a lot of weird going on with this entire quarterback room. Yeah. You know, when I used to do the Football GM podcast with Randy Mueller, Randy used to have this saying, there's something I don't know, the knowing of which changes everything. And so I feel like there's something there that we don't fully know about that led to some of the ambiguity and some of the hedging this offseason.

and that would make it make a little bit more sets, just the vibe and the feeling. Now, I do think that there's natural concerns about, hey, you've got this playoff ready roster, and this guy, JJ McCarthy, who you were super excited about, barely lasted a preseason game, right? And is unproven and hasn't been able to practice a ton. And so as a coach, as an organization,

you have to really be sure when you have this type of roster that, hey, the whole team's buying in, that we're ready to go. And so I could see some hesitation, you know, doing that, not enough to say we're going to resign Sam Donald, because he had questions about him, too. Like, Donald wasn't good enough or the answer enough to, like, come off of J.J. McCarthy and sign him to a big deal. I get not doing that. But there's kind of this, a little bit of a no man's land here, too, where is J.J. McCarthy fully ready to take the reins? He hasn't been able to prove that. We have some questions about him. Maybe they have a couple questions that they didn't have before physically or whatever.

They've been around him. Just readiness. Not everybody's ready right away. Maybe he's not as ready as they thought. So I don't think Sam Howell changes that equation. I don't think they're sitting there going, ooh, we're going to play Sam Howell. But I do think they needed to have somebody who has played before, you know, and who hopefully Kevin O'Connell liked and saw something in.

And, you know, maybe that's how I'm sure that J.J. McCarthy, unless he's hurt, is going to be the starting quarterback. but am I willing to bet that he's going to start the whole year for whatever reason? I don't think he's proven that. That's a good point, though, about them being kind of like a weird middle ground. Like, let's say last year instead of 14 games, they won nine or 10 and we're a decent team, but probably didn't feel that they were that close. Maybe we're just not talking about any of this because we're just like, oh, well, yeah,

it's fine that they're going to start JJ McCarthy because they're clearly still a couple of steps away, but because how good last year was, I was even in the camp that I was like, I would try to keep Sam Darnold around. And obviously, I think maybe the number went a little bit higher than they were willing to go. But kind of for the same thing that you're talking about, Sando, like with how good the roster was, you would kind of want somebody who's done this before. And so maybe that's really all their hang up is, is they just, they still believe in McCarthy. But maybe they believe in McCarthy for year three and year four. And this year when they feel they're so close, maybe they're just a little bit scared.

It's a weird situation to be in when you win way more games than people thought, you know. So I think it wasn't as easy and straightforward as it should be just based on the fact that you drafted this guy so early and they like them. Last one here, guys, it is the Miami Dolphins. Now, this is a unique one, even as we got into these not a week one battle discussions because, you know, this is, you know, obviously hot seat, Mike McDaniel, obviously hot seat Chris Greer. You've got to a Tua here who, you know, they could move on from potentially after this year depending on the way things go. but this is also a team that if Tua doesn't get hurt last year or if they have a capable backup last year, maybe they're a playoff team. They went six and five with Tua as their starter. They went one and one to start the season. He gets hurt in that week two game against Buffalo.

Then they go one and three without him. They lose to Seattle. They lose to Tennessee. They beat New England. They lose to Indy. He comes back. They lose Heartbreaker at the gun games to Arizona and Buffalo. In Buffalo, a 61-yard field goal by Tyler Bass, if you remember, for the bills to win that game. those are two quality teams that they are right there with with Tua back in the lineup. Then their season goes the way it does. And they ultimately go eight and nine to a not starting the last two weeks of the season. But a team that probably right on the fringes of playoff quality last year with Tua healthy, maybe they're there again this season.

Now, Zach Wilson is the backup there, Sandoz. So a more capable backup at the very least, I would say, this year than they had last year, your assessment of the Miami Dolphins quarterback situation as we. We, I don't know, get ready to get ready to get ready for the 2025 season. Yeah, if you look at the games, two has started last year. You said six and five, they average two and a half touchdowns per game on offense. Their EPA per play would rank somewhere around 14th, okay? And that includes a game he started and didn't finish, where they were probably pretty bad, right?

Without them, they're 1.2 touchdowns per game on offense, so half. And by far, they would be number 32 on offense, by far 32 in EPA per play. So I do like the fact that they got Zach Wilson. Look, I wouldn't want to have to bet on them for the whole year. But I think that's at least an intriguing player. Now, good system probably. I think the thing with Zach Wilson is he does have some traits, I think, from college, that could be somewhat similar to two.

I don't know that he's been asked to use them with the quick passing game and that sort of a thing. So I'm intrigued by it. I feel better about it than I would with what they had last season. But I think they're so all in on Tua that if it doesn't go well with Tua, that's really bad for everybody. That's kind of how I'm more seeing it. I do think that Wilson would give them slightly better backup play than they got last year. And so instead of going one and three, maybe they just split them. And you are alive at the end of the year to be a playoff team.

I mean, I remember for as much as we did like, oh, the Bengals are alive. you know, late in the season, the Dolphins actually had the advantage over them in the playoff race for a majority of the year until Tua missed those last two games. So I think all that's a really good point. For me, the interesting part is like, Tua has a history of getting banged up and missing these games. Again, there were multiple stretches last year where he missed. The only season where he played all 17 or 16 games, whatever it was, was 2023.

And if we remember, that was a year where he actually kind of boled up a lot and he got a little bit heavier. Last year, he actually lost a lot of the weight to be a better scrambler, which he was, by the way, it was the best he's ever scrambled in his career. He was actually pretty creative outside of the pocket in the way he had never been in the NFL, but it kind of came at the cost again of him getting a little bit more banged up. And so I just wonder if that's the case again this year. And he, let's say kind of similar to this past year, where he misses maybe six games, they go eight and nine, just missed the playoffs or maybe nine and eight even. What do the dolphins do next year. And that kind of becomes the question for me is like, are they willing to move on

from him? Because I think in that scenario, if they are willing to move on from Mike McDaniel, because Tua has only ever really worked well under Mike McDaniel, I wonder if at that point they would just also be willing to move on from Tua, Tungabai Lowe, and kind of scrap the whole thing, especially because, you know, Tyree Kill would be getting older. Like, it just, it would feel like such a natural break point if this doesn't work the way that they want it to this year. I guess that is going to do it for this episode of the athletic football. show. Thanks so much, listeners, for letting me in with Robert on vacation. It's a lot of fun getting back on the mic. Big thanks, as always, of course, to Derek Classen and Mike Sando. We will be back

next week. We've got a mailback episode coming for you on Monday. You will hear Robert's voice on that one. It's when we recorded before he went on vacation. Then we'll have two more episodes to follow next week after that. But that's going to do it for the athletic football show, both for this episode and for this week. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you.