The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Ashton Jeanty, Omarion Hampton, and the deepest running back draft class in years

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

You know Ashton Jeanty. You know Omarion Hampton. You know Kaleb Johnson and TreVeyon Henderson. And if you know all of them, chances are you know that this is the deepest running back draft class in years. Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen and Dane Brugler dig deep into that class on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Fill out The Athletic's listener survey. Three people will win $100 in vouchers at Amazon: theathletic.com/athletic/survey25Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Dane BruglerExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dane on Bluesky: @danebrugler.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Dane on X: @dpbruglerTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. It's running backs day on the athletic football show feed. We're hitting this deep, deep crop of running backs, a position that we don't always hit in the run-up to the draft. But because there's so many guys this year, headlined by Ashton Genti, felt like we needed to dig into it. Joining me to do that today, it's Dan Bruegler and Derek Classen. Very, very excited about this conversation. Talked a lot about Gentie at the top, discussed who the number two back in this class is,

how much of a gap there is between O'Marion Hampton and Caleb Johnson. If you pass on Genty in the first round, if you're a team like the Bears, the Raiders, the Cowboys, who might be one of those guys that you could be looking for in the second round. Chat about Dan and Derek's favorite day three picks. Some guys that they think might fit a Bucky Irving mold. Could go outside of the top 75, could be a thousand yard back in the right situation next year,

and then a couple other smaller superlatives that we hit over the course of this show. So let's get to that conversation with Derek and Dane. right now. It's running backs day on the athletic football show. We don't always do running backs as a position group heading into the draft as we pick these position specific shows. But this class, as I've come to understand it, as I've been told, is a group where we needed to dive headfirst into the running backs. Two people here to help me do that today. First off, it is my co-host here at the athletic football show. Derek, how are you feeling, man? I'm doing fantastic. This was a little bit of a throwback for me in the sense of, you know, when I was with Bleacher Report, I did all

skill players. And so for me to jump all the way in, you know, dozen guys deep back into the running back class, you know, it's what I've been used to. Also joining us today, it is our draft expert here at the athletic at Stain Bruegler. Dan, we had to do the running backs this year. I think you were one of the ones pushing this. Why this year with the running backs? It's just such a deep group. And obviously, you've got a headliner with Ashen Gentie at the top. Everybody knows about Gentie. But it's a fascinating argument of the running back discussion about whether or not to draft Genti top 10 is the fact that it's such a deep group that you're looking at the

second round, third round, fourth round, deep into day three and thinking, hey, I feel great about our options later on where we don't have to push all the chips in on this one running back early, which further complicates the Genti discussion, which we'll talk about. But yeah, it's such a deep group. but I've got draftable grades on 30 running backs. And even then, I mean, I could have easily. Where does that sit for you and compared to like a typical year just for context? I mean, it's probably around 25, you know.

Usually every draft's different, but usually the average is probably around 25ish. This year, it was in the 30s. I could have, I had to cut it off. I mean, I could have gone to 32, 33, but not every team's going to draft a running back. So, you know, some of these guys are going to go much later than we're on. I have them ranked where people think they should go just because the sheer volume of guys. You have nine running backs in your top 100. That feels really high compared to a given year.

Those are aggressive grades. You have some guys a little bit higher than others. Like RJ Harvey is a guy that we're going to talk about that's not on the consensus board, but you have in your top 100. So nine running backs going in the first three rounds, that feels like a pretty drastic outwire compared to what we're used to, especially in recent years. I think it sums up this class. And then, okay, you have those nine.

And then I have fourth round grades on like eight more guys. Jesus. I mean, it's just, it's, you know, like, it's hard to, like, they're not all going to go that high. But I just didn't feel right putting a fifth round grade on Devin Neal or, you know, Olly Gordon. Like it, so, yeah, it's a weird group where we're going to have higher grades than ultimately where these guys are drafted.

But I don't know. you have to, you can't change your grade because you just have too many guys, right? Like that's just, you have to stay true to the scouting. And just because you already have four fourth round grades, you can't cap yourself. You know, if he's a fourth round grade, give the guy his due and put him where you think it belongs. The big board numbers that we're going to list off here are the numbers from the final big board and the final version of the beast that is going to be available to people when, Dan Brugler? Wednesday, the ninth, that's, we're editing right now doing final edits, just trying to get, you know, teased crossed, the eyes dotted, all that kind of stuff. But yeah, if everything goes to plan, which we're on pace to do so, it'll be available PDF form and really cool digital form this year.

It's really interactive and we've really put a lot of resource into it this year. So the ninth, first thing that morning, it should be available. please be on the lookout for that if you do not read The Beast every year i don't know why you're listening to this show or vice versa it seems like the overlap there and the then diagram is just one big circle so please be on the lookout for that over the next week i'm not sure how dane is conscious right now but we're going to take advantage of it as we dig into these position specific shows we're going to do them all in like kind of superlative style we're going to do a bunch of categories for each of these positions i feel like that was the best way to do it more than a ranking just because it allows us to hit the breath

of these groups, especially with some of these teams that are some of these positions where the guys would be outside of the top 10 are interesting. So you don't want to miss out on them by ranking top 10 guys. So that's kind of how we've thought about this. But we are going to start at the top of this class. And we are going to start with the prize of this running back group. I think pretty consensus. And that is Ashton Genti from Boise State, who is fourth in Dane's top 100. Derek, I'm going to let you kick this off because me and Dane have talked about Jentee a little bit in passing over the last month or so, as we've talked. more big picture about this class.

When you watched Ashton Jenty, did his tape line up with what you had heard about him as a prospect? I would say like 99% yes. I sense a little hesitation in there, which I'm excited to dig into. Well, I think he's fantastic. And I would put a top 10 grade on him. I think he's incredible. What is mildly interesting to me is that usually when we have these running backs that you are willing to take in the top 10, they usually have excellent long speed.

typically. It's not always the case, but that's usually the case that these guys are home run hitters. It's your Sequin Barclays, your Todd Gurley, stuff like that. And I don't think Jentee's slow by any means, but he doesn't to me have that elite breakaway speed. He has like really good like, you know, second and third gear, but him getting up to that fifth gear isn't like super exciting to me. But I don't think that that necessarily precludes him from being an elite prospect. Like I don't think Bejohn Robinson had that either. And he was still a prospect. That's the name I was going to bring up because I don't think Bijan was really considered that way. But at least we had numbers on Bejohn Dane.

So Gently, or Bijon had an 82nd percentile 10-yard split, 4-4-6 in the 40. We have no numbers on Genti. So if you believe in some of the athleticism, then it's more of an inherent trust than it is based on anything concrete that we can look at. Well, I mean, here's the numbers that we have. Five touchdowns of 70 plus yards this year. The only other player to do that was Ladanian Tomlinson. So we've got numbers like that.

Or how about he had 12 carries of 50 plus yards this year. No other FBS running back or nobody, no other FBS player had more than five. 12, five. Big gap there. So, no, we don't have the 40. And I agree with Derek. I don't think he's,

and that's why he didn't run is because he wasn't going to run a 440. He's probably going to be, I don't know, 448, 451, something like that. And I don't care. You know, like to me, it doesn't really matter. I don't blame him for not working out. He's already running back one. If he worked out and ran a 4-4-2, all of a sudden the Giants at 3 going to be like, oh, you know what?

Maybe we should draft it. No, no. I mean, it's not going to change anything. So he could only really hurt himself if he worked out, if he did the testing. Because his workout, talking to scouts that were in Boise State for his pro day, they just gushed. I mean, they said the one guy was, I wish we had a top 10 picks so we could draft him because he's not getting out of the top 10.

I mean, they just gushed about the pro day workout, the way he caught the football, and then, you know, the person that he is. Like, that's a, that's a, you know, we don't necessarily dive into that too much. I mean, we stick to the film and in the numbers and all that. But the coaches rave about him. They say he's got a halo on under his helmet. Like the ego doesn't get too big, you know, for him. Like, he was raised in a military family. So he's kind of got that got buttoned up, disciplined style to.

And just that personality. Yeah, right, exactly. And it's fun with Genti because he actually, some of his formative years learning football were in Italy. You know, he would travel to because they were on a base over there. And so he went to Naples middle school. And they would travel to bases in Germany and Belgium and throughout Europe to face other football teams from other bases, which is really cool. And when you kind of learn about, you know, his background and all that kind of stuff. So and then like you learn, okay.

Okay, in high school, he goes, he went to Lone Star High School in Frisco. He was on the same team with Marvin Mims. There was a couple other guys on that team, but he wasn't even, he was a defensive lineman as a sophomore when he got there because they just, that's where they needed a spot for somebody. And then so he wasn't even a true running back until later on. And so, yeah, it's just, it's fun to learn more and more about, it was fun to learn more about Genti throughout the process.

But yeah, this is one of the best players in the draft. And I think it's, it makes it really interesting when you're talking about the teams in the top 10 and which ones are going to seriously consider him. Derek, if long speed isn't the superpower, but we can concede that he is a top 10 prospect and a special prospect, what are the superpowers when you're watching Ashton Jensi play beyond some of those numbers that Dan listed off? His balance is rare. Like, it is, it is really, really special. just the way that he can it's not just that he can take a hit and stay on his feet

it's kind of the way that he can bend his body and contort the way that he's absorbing a hit and so instead of taking 100% of what the hit the linebacker's delivering he's only taking like 70%. This is something, this is a weird comparison but we say this a lot with like Lamar Jackson where he just has this weird way

of like getting out of contact. Genti has that but also if he needs to run through your face mask he can do that. So I think you add that like his just incredible balance on top of the fact that I think his footwork and his vision are fantastic. Like it is almost, it's almost like he's not like Bijan necessarily, but like Bijan's superpowers to me are footwork, vision, and balance. And I think Genti is a little bit more maybe rugged and violent, but I think he shares a lot of the same qualities. And so those to me

are why you would buy in on Gentie. Is that where you said to, Dan? Like what in your mind, what makes him truly special? I mean, he runs like he's just got. Vaseline doused on his body. It's just, it's good luck trying to get him on the ground. And I, during the season when, you know, kind of praising Genty, had some people, you know, like, whoa, he's, he's 5'8. Like, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, like, like, like, like, like, what Derek was saying. like it's he doesn't predetermine his path he has his reactionary reads are just outstanding so it's not like he's going to pick where he's going based off of how the linebacker reacts based off of

what the blocking is what's going on with the blocking he can sort cut create um i that that contact balance and that contact is something that really stands out i was talking to geoffrey bossa the linebacker from oregon who has a chance to be a top 100 guy and i he faced Gentie and also the two Ohio state running backs this year. And he faced the Ohio State running backs twice. And so I asked him plain simple, like, who was the toughest running back that you had to tackle this year?

And before I could even get the question out, he's gentie. I mean, plain and simple. I mean, that already was insane. Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing is that if there's going to be one true knock against him is he did it in the Mountain West. And yes, he does have the Boise or he does have, the Oregon game on on film where he just demolished that defense.

But for the most part, he was like, his Washington State tape was maybe the greatest running back tape I've watched since I've started doing this. And that sounds hyperbolic, but since I started scouting, you know, the last 20 years might be the single best running back tape that I've ever watched. It was that impressive. But Washington State also had a JV defense this year. So, you know, I think some of the numbers are, you know, because he faced some inferior competition,

but he did enough consistently week in, week out, especially against a team like Oregon. And, you know, like the Penn State game, he didn't, you know, yards per carry weren't great, but you watch him and he maximized every single touch that he had. I think one of the other concerns, the fumbling for me. I mean, he, the last two years, nine fumbles for this past year.

He actually had one more that was called back. due to penalty. So we don't even count that one. So ball security, you know, that that is something that needs to get better as he goes to the next level. Derek, when I watched him, the thing that really jumped out to me, I think you and I talked about this a little bit. It might have been with D.K. All the stuff is starting to run together now. But watching him, like, press the hole and set up blocks or play with linebackers and understand how to pace stuff. With Bejohn, I think it's, maybe it's a little bit biased because I've watched so many zone runs with Bejohn over the last couple years that I think of Bejohn's patience in kind of a zone bucket. And with Genty,

he actually had more gap runs than zone runs last year. And a lot of the ones that I'm watching, they're duotype runs where he really is setting stuff up by putting his blockers in the right position. And I think that to me is the best argument, Derek, about why he's worth this sort of pick is that he feels like the type of running back that will make the rushing ecosystem around him better. And that's the difficult part. And I think that's why you can argue against running backs high most of the time because so much is dependent on what's around them. I think the type of back that he is, you can make a really serious argument that he would make the players around him better in a way that a lot of running backs aren't able to do.

Outside of his balance, his ability to set up blocks is probably the thing I wrote most in my notes. And it's not just like you said, with Bejohn Robinson, it's mostly zone stuff. And I think he can and has shown that he can do other stuff. Well, with Gentie, it's both. He can do all the zone stuff. he can show very good patience there. He knows when to make his cuts. He can get himself low to the ground and coil and explode very well.

But when he's doing all these, you know, running behind a polar in power or counter or duo, he has this incredible ability to make linebackers draw themselves to one side of the offensive linemen before cutting the other way. It's, yeah, make themselves wrong. And it's really, really hard to be this good at it. But the closest in terms of like when I watch what it feels like is like Levyon Bell at his peak. like because they were doing a lot of the counter duo type stuff out of the gun especially when he was there and people were like man they're they're just moving so slow it's going so slow but when it looks really good it's because the linebackers don't want to come up and make a decision because they know gentis or or a guy like levi on bell

is going to make them wrong you see that a lot on genties tape it's incredibly impressive he had 152 missed force tackles last year per pfff day and that was 49 more than any other player in the class number two is 103. He also ran the ball 81 times more than any other running back in FBS last year. And outside of maybe some long speed concerns and some quality of competition concerns, that'd be the other thing I would throw out to you, Dane. Would you be a little bit worried if you were taking him with, I don't know, hypothetically, let's say the 10th pick in the draft. Let's say you were taking him there. Would you be a little bit worried that he had 375 carries last year and has 750 carries

in his college career? Yeah, 830 touches on offense. over three years. That's a lot. That is a lot of mileage. And it's part of your evaluation. I think it's worth talking about. It's worth bringing up. It's definitely a data point. But it would not stop me from drafting him. And, you know, he did get banged up a little bit. He had a knee sprain last year or in 2023. I think he just missed one game. This past year, he hurt his elbow. He wore this big, bulky brace over really the second half of the season. you know, he's been banged up here and there, but for the most part, you know, like he didn't miss a beat. Like he looked like the same guy week in, week out.

It would not stop me from drafting. It would not stop me from drafting him based off of where I thought his talent says he should be drafted. But yeah, and I mean, I agree with what I think what you said earlier is kind of perfect for him in terms of just he makes everybody around you better. He makes the blocking better. He makes the offense better. That was kind of one of the reasons I really loved Jemir Gibbs coming out is because, yeah, the speed was great, but he knew the timing to hit the hole. He knew, like, he was so good with the blocking geometry that, you know, he just, the way

he would read it, hit it, and go, it was just, you know, good luck. And with Genty, he doesn't have that type of speed, but he has a feel for when to hit the hole, set up defenders and just, like you said, make guys wrong. And he does it consistently. So, and I think the thing we, he doesn't get enough credit for, it's kind of reminds me of, like, last year when Drake May was not getting enough credit for being athletic in terms of being a mobile quarterback. Gentie is one of the best, if not the best.

I would say he is the best pass catching back in this class. That is where you're going to hear, like, Ladani and Tomlinson comps. I think it makes sense, partly because he's so good catching the ball out of the backfield. You could use him as an extra receiver. I mean, he can line up in the slot and really be a dynamic weapon for you. He's a smaller target, but he can catch the ball outside his frame consistently. and they didn't allow him to do it that much this year just because they didn't need him to, but that is a big part of his game.

I wonder if there's a coach picking in the top 10 that was familiar with Jemir Gibbs in the draft process. Yeah. Oh, do you know? I wonder. Just throwing it out there. Does he get there? That might be the better question with like the readers. So that was my next question for you guys is where would you like to see him go?

If there was an ideal landing spot for you, Derek, in the range of the draft that makes sense, what would you say it is? I mean, not to, you know, not to make you happy here, but like, I probably is Chicago. I think that that probably is the best fucking. I'm not sure it makes me happy. I still have enough reservations about it. You're conflict. You're conflict.

I'm definitely conflicted. When I watch. But is that purely a value thing or is that just like anything, any reservations about the player? It's more about the value. It's honestly just like a, it's a real deep concern with taking your vegetable, with eating your vegetables first. And the fact that it's still hard for me to believe. leave this team is eating its vegetables to the proper extent that it deserves dessert.

Like I'm just not sure we're at that point yet. But I, after watching him, I sometimes you just need to spring for dessert, you know, like, sometimes that's just how it works. You can eat ice cream for dinner. Like there's nothing preventing you from doing that. We're all adults. I, and I'll actually say to, I don't want it to be the Raiders. I think, I think their offensive line as a run blocking unit is like really overrated. And I would, I know we just said that he could make them better, but I don't want him thrust into like a Todd Gurley 2015 situation where his rookie year is just head running into a wall. I don't want that.

I want him on an offensive line that has been built perhaps like Chicago's. I'm not as worried about the Raiders situation. I feel like the offensive ecosystem last year was so bad. And you have year two now. You have some young guys that are going to be in year two. You have young guys that are going to be in year two. I trust Chip Kelly more than I trust that previous staff.

You might be right, Derek. I'm not willing to lump in what the Raiders were last year running the ball into what I think they might be this year. That's why I'm a little bit more open to it at six, even if I think it's probably sequentially might be more of an issue in terms of how you're building and when. Let me ask you guys the hypothetical here. Let's say Ashen Gentie is a he's a top 10 pick,

but he doesn't go six to the Raiders and he doesn't go 10 to the Bears. What other team? It feels like there's a surprise team in there that maybe we're not talking about a lot that could say, you know what, screw it. Ash and Genti is the best player on the board. Like, what are we doing? Let's take the best player.

I think if, you know, if you have a 1A running back and a 1A pass rusher, you're taking the pass rusher every time. But if you have a 1A running back and a 1B pass rusher, you know what? Let's take the best player. Take the Raiders and the bears out of consideration. What other team in the top 10 could you think,

hey, this could be a sneaky landing spot for Genti? I have two that I would say I don't know where Derek sits with this It's just so hard Because a lot of them are kind of committed to backs I think if New Orleans wanted a better contingency plan Or like a surefire contingency for Camara Who they're actually pretty similar players

Him and Genti so I think that that would make a lot of sense for them I think I think with who else might be on the board for Jacksonville I don't know if it would be the best idea But I kind of love the idea of him and Cohen's offense I mean that was the one I would throw out I think New Orleans has to be in there just because Camara's getting a little bit older. Financially, they're committed to him for probably the next two years. But I don't think that should prevent you from doing it necessarily.

With Jacksonville, I don't know. I think that ETSs on his way out. You know, Bigsby was fine last year in stretches. I don't think any of that with a new staff and a new front office is preventing me from taking that guy if I think he's the best player available right there. And that's the thing now that I'm thinking about it, there's absolutely a world where Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter are off the board. by that point.

Maybe that is just the best player on the board is Ashton Genty. Like maybe go take that swing. I in what about the Patriots as just a you know what? Let's say one quarterback goes in the top three. So Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter go two and three. So you are basically an offensive tackle or the best player in the board, which is Genty. I think there's, I don't know, could be interesting. in the world where you can tell me for sure they get a tackle with their next pick,

I don't think it's that crazy. I don't think it's that crazy. It's so hard for me to justify that given the state of their offensive line and their receiving court. But I get it. If only one quarterback goes and both Carter and Hunter are off the board, then I think you could probably make an argument for it. I'm not sure it's as strong of an argument as it might be for teams picking a little bit later in the top time. It's just such a hard year for this because, again,

We have four or five blue chippers, maybe not even that much. And it's just, then there's a little bit of a drop off. And I think every team's going to look at that drop off a little bit differently where it's like, you know what, we're fine shopping in tier two and passing on a running back in tier one, where other teams might just say, you know what? Again, what are we doing? Let's take the better player and, you know, let the chips fall where they may. But yeah, I think that it would be interesting.

And to answer your original question about where we want to see or the best fit for Gentie, Sean Payton trading up into the top 10, make it happen, splash. To me, I would love to see that fit and to see how that would work with that offense, with that quarterback. I think that'd be a lot of fun. I'd pull money out of my own bank account to make that happen. If you're a team like Carolina and you think that from 8 to 20, the talent flattens a little bit, You need pieces.

You have a second round pick, but it's not yours. You know, you're trading that pick away to the Bears. You could probably use some more picks. That's the team I'd probably be calling if I were the Broncos. Because I think that's the team you could probably convince to trade out of that spot. You know, there are toolsy defensive prospects available there, Dane. But I think that there aren't as complete defensive prospects available there where maybe you can get a similar tier of guy at 20 that you could get at eight.

With the teams being ahead of that, you know, the Jets, I think the tackles that could be there. Maybe it scares them off. But Carolina would be a fun one. Yeah, I think that makes total sense. And I think they'll be open for business again, to add more draft picks and just add more draft capital where, you know, Sean Payton's are always ready to strike. He sure is. So I don't know. That one, the chances of that happening are, I think, pretty low. But that would just be one that would, I think, make a ton of sense if the opportunity is there. You alluded to that second tier of running backs. Let's get to that second tier. But first, we'll take a quick break. Before we get back into the show, I want to tell you about the athletics listener survey.

You listen to us. Now we want to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com slash athletic slash survey 25. Three lucky entries will win $100 worth of Amazon vouchers. So whether you're a longtime listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Go to theathletic.com slash athletic slash survey 25. That's theathletic.com slash survey 25. the link is also in our episode description below. Let's talk about the guys beyond Ashen Genti in this group. I wanted to have a category that was just the consolation price, right?

If you do not get Gentie, this is the next back that you want. And I feel like a consensus has started to form here, Dane, about who that back is. And it's typically been a lot of people's minds of Marion Hampton from North Carolina. It feels like as teams are talking about or people are talking about who might miss out on Gentie, Hampton even as high as 12 to the Cowboys. Feels like there's a little bit of just buzz on that when it comes to mock drafts and people just playing around. When you look at the second best back in this class,

is Hampton clearly that guy for you? Or do you think that it's at least a conversation with him and some of the other guys that are going to be available? I think it's a conversation. And I like Hampton a lot. He is my number two running back. But if I ran strictly outside zone and that's the type of running back I wanted,

Caleb Johnson from Iowa would absolutely be part of that conversation because that's where he That's where he got his master's degree is outside zone He's just so so adept at it I think with Hampton he's he can do gap or zone I think he'd be fine Whatever blocking scheme you're running but he also has a lot of the physical traits that you want I mean he's thick square build he's got speed he's got run strength You know he can really tilt the field with that that forward lean, so he's going to barrel through tacklers.

And his burst for a 220-pound athlete is really, really impressive. But he's another guy that has some of the running back specific traits to him as well in terms of his ability to read blocks, set up defenders. He can cut back. He's really strong off his plant foot, so speed in and out of his cuts. And he can catch the ball out of the backfield. Those pivot routes that they ran at North Carolina over, over and over again.

And I think the best compliment that you can pay to Marion Hampton is just the fact that like last year he ran for over 1,400 yards with Drake May as his quarterback this year, where it was basically the O'Mary and Hampton show and nobody else. He still ran for over 1,400 yards. It was still productive, even though the passing game was not there. So all purpose yards, rushing yards, didn't matter what was going on around him, quarterback offensive line. He was able to produce.

So not the most creative back. but I think he's just in terms of the mix of bruising and speed and vision, I think he has a lot of that. A lot of explosiveness. If you look at the jumps, 91st and 98th percentile in both of those categories, he was six nationally and mistackles force last season among every back in FBS with that physical profile. Derek, what does the gap look like for you with Hampton and everybody else?

Because I know he's your number two guy as well. I would say it's like a half a tier. next guy for me is also Caleb Johnson. And I think kind of like Dan said, it comes down to, if you know you are running a strictly outside zone type of offense, like what the Falcons were doing, yeah, I'd probably rather have Johnson. But in a more general sense, I think I would rather have Hampton. I think Hampton for me just check so many boxes. Like, this is a lofty comp. But when I watch him, I see a lot of the same things that made Nick Chubb, like one of the best running backs in the league where it's just his balance, his patience for a guy, his size, his burst,

he gets into the open field. He's a bigger, thicker guy, but he has a pretty impressive ability to, like, get lower and coil himself and really, like, be flexible and get to a different angle. Like, he's just a very, very impressive runner. My biggest issue watching his tape wasn't even his fault. It was just that almost all of their run concepts where he is, like, hip to hip standing with the quarterback pre-snap, and he's, like, shuffling into the carry instead of being able to just get downhill and go. And I would love to see, like, what it really looks like when he gets more carries where right out of his stance, boom, he can just go. Like, I would just love to see what it looks like.

So I almost think there's actually a little bit of still untapped potential with a player like this. And then the last two things is I think he's a fairly comfortable pass catcher, probably not as good as Gentie, but I think it's something he can do. And he's a damn good pass blocker. Like, he's just a guy who, I think when you're drafting a player in the first round at the running back position, it has to be a guy I can put out there for 60 snaps. And I know that he can give me value no matter what the down in distance.

is and I think Hampton absolutely does that. How high would you draft on Mary in Hampton Day? Somewhere in the late first round. I think, like if I'm Denver and, you know, I'm looking at my team and who's available, like Hampton's 29 on my board, but for a team like Denver, oh, you know what, that makes sense. Let's think about how that could help transform our offense. Is a running back like this, you drop them in.

And I mean, he's one thing I really appreciated about that North Carolina offense was they demand their running backs to pass protect, you know, like Derek was saying. And so I know, I have a good idea with what I'm getting with Amerian Hampton running the ball, catching the ball, and then as a blocker. So he's an any down type of player. And, you know, he's, you can nitpick him for sure. But I don't think there's one glaring weakness to his game that would stop me from drafting him somewhere in the back half around one. you had Caleb Johnson ahead of him for a little bit during this process, Dane. I think you were a bigger Caleb Johnson fan than the consensus had been really up until his pro day where the testing wasn't great.

Is that ultimately what caused you to push Hampton a little bit ahead of him and drop Johnson down a tiny bit? Not just the, I mean, I had them neck and neck. Like in my top 100 board before the combine, they were tags were touching. They were, you know, right next to each other. So I think just the fact that it so yeah with Caleb His pro day wasn't great a lot of drop passes He was 10 pounds heavier than what he was at the combine Which is a little bit of a red flag

And there was just enough there that it's like okay I'm from a general point of view Because we're not drafting or we're not ranking these guys for a specific scheme We're just doing it from a general point of view But I really do like Caleb Johnson and he's so physically put together. But he kind of reminded me of DeMarco Murray a little bit with the way he runs. That's perfect.

Yeah, I mean, he can process those backside cuts. He can follow blocks. Really shines on toss and outside zone and any type of horizontal flow type of plays. The long speed's not great, but it's good enough where he's going to get that initial acceleration. And he can take you a long way. He doesn't fumble, caught the ball. well in games. So there's enough there that, you know,

I think he's in that conversation to be a, if he doesn't, if he's the, if he's not one of the first two running backs off the board, he should be third or fourth, just depending on the type of runner that you want. Hampton at 20, the Broncos, I think, makes a ton of sense. I'm wondering where Johnson makes sense.

Because you look at the teams that ran the most zone runs in the league last year, they're pretty squared away running back was. One of those teams employs Bijon Robinson. Another one of them employs, with Saquan Barkley. Another one is Jemir Gibbs. The team that actually makes sense

when it comes to running back need and the scheme that they're running, they don't have a pick in the range or they would take him, Derek. To me, it's the Steelers. Like him in that offense in Pittsburgh actually does make a lot of sense. I don't think they're taking him

in the first round for reasons. I'm not sure they could justify another running back in the 20s considering what has happened recently and some of the needs that they have. In the second round, though, if they had a pick, that would make sense to me.

they do not have a pick in the second round. So a team where he actually makes sense is a little bit harder for me to land on than somebody like Hampton who feels like he's a little bit more scheme diverse. It is a little bit trickier to find, especially compared to five years ago when everyone was running a little bit more of the outside zone stuff. Like even some of the traditional outside zone guys are doing less of that now. Shanahan's doing less of it. Even Kevin O'Connell, we don't know exactly what the offense is going to look like next year.

But with the moves that they made along the interior offensive line, suggest to me they want to be a little bit more power, you know, pulling gaps a little bit. Well, it's another team I would throw out, but they only have the first round pick. They traded for Jordan Mason and they don't have any other picks aside from the first round pick. So teams that would make sense for me to draft Caleb Johnson in the second round, neither of them has a second round draft pick. Could you see him in Ben Johnson's offense? Sure. And I think that's the other one that I would throw out.

And we'll get to that in a second. I think that there's a lot of these guys in this conversation about if you don't draft Ashton, Genty in the top 10, who will you draft in the second round? And so I think that there's plenty of guys we can get to there. But if they do decide to pass Sean Genty, I do think that there is a world where he would make sense for them. Yes. Yeah.

I think that he's an Ohio guy, played it in Iowa, like Chicago. I mean, he's kind of built for that. And kind of like I was saying with Omerian Hampton, without Drake May and he was still productive, Iowa ranked 130th out of 133 teams this year in passing offense. Okay. I mean, stacked boxes after stacked boxes, everyone knew what was happening with that Iowa offense. And yet still productive, still rushed for almost 1,600 yards. He's set all types of Iowa records.

So, yeah, I mean, he's just, the more you watched him, I think the more you appreciated what Caleb Johnson did this year for Iowa. Looking at some of the numbers, he ran a 4, 5, 840, 1, 610 yard split, which is like in the 60thous percentile. It's not great. But his play speed seems to outpace that. He had 28 runs of 15 plus yards this year, which was third in FBS. So even if the numbers don't necessarily say it, Dane, he has shown an ability to be at least a doubles hitter, if not a home run hitter, pretty consistently in that offense. Yeah, and he was number two with 21 carries of 20 plus yards. So, I mean, he is a guy that found his yardage.

Again, a lot of stacked boxes, but if he could clear that first wave, and he was very good at reading, setting up, blocks anticipating those backside front side lanes so he's going to find yardage if it's there and he did it very very consistently so that's where i think that demarko murray comp comes in where it's just it's a play style it's you know he's a three-down player patient powerful one cut instinctive vision really going to take advantage of those run angles and as an athlete it's just it's kind of a glider um you know not a true maybe not a true burst guy maybe not a true speed guy, but has some gliding to him with the way he runs the ball. So I think it's easy to appreciate the way he runs a rock.

So let's get to that top half of the second round and what that might look like based on the running backs who might go a little bit earlier. In this hypothetical, let's just say that Ashton Jenty goes in the top 10 to one of those teams we discussed that maybe was a little bit of a surprise. Let's say he goes to Jacksonville at five. And then let's say Hampton goes to the Broncos at 20. and in this hypothetical, let's say Caleb Johnson goes to the Bears at 40, where are there picks in the second round? 39. 49.41. So let's say he goes, one of those two picks is spent on Caleb Johnson. The Bears draft will Campbell at 10.

So now we have the Raiders and the Cowboys, both that need running backs that have high second round picks. Are there any other guys in this range, Dane, that you think would make sense for those teams? or do you feel like this range of the draft combined with who'd be left, there's not really a dance partner in that area? Travion Henderson. Really, I think both these Ohio State running backs, I think will be in that conversation.

Trayvon Henderson, Quinchon Judkins, two different types of backs. And Trayvon Henderson, going back to his freshman year, I remember 2021 watching him and Bejohn Robinson, and I tweeted at the time, the two best running back prospects in college football, neither are draft eligible. Because he was Bejohn, who was a sophomore at Texas at the time,

and then Travion, who was a freshman at Ohio State. And obviously, Bijon turned out to be a top 10 pick. Travion Henderson, he was so good as a freshman. And then sophomore year he was her junior year, hurt as well, a little bit better. This past year, you bring in a guy like Quinchon Judkins to the mix where it's not all on Henderson and he stayed healthy and he had a really productive year,

but a big part of why they won the national championship. I'm not as high, maybe as Henderson as some other people. I really like him. I do think that he's a little tight. I do think that he's at his best when you lead him to the hole where things can get a little muddy for him sometimes. Because he is a speed guy, I hear Jemir Gibbs comparisons a lot. And that's where speed, sure, I mean, I get why you're making the comparison. But he's not, in terms of his reading at the line of scrimmage, when he faces,

some muddy, muddy lines. He has a tougher time getting out of it and finding that escape route where Gibbs can do that. With Henderson, it just gets a little murkier. So the patience and tempo, hot and cold at times. But if you give him space, if you give Trevion

Henderson a lane where he can just roll, he's going to make the defense pay. And he can catch a while in backfield. So I like his fit in Dallas quite a bit. I think that makes a lot of sense for for both sides. What do you think of Henderson, Derek? I liked him a good amount, but I do agree with Dane.

He's not as polished as Jemir Gibbs was, which is, you know, why Gibbs was able to go in the top 15 and Henderson is probably a guy who's more in the top 50 range. I think it's funny that Henderson, to me, is kind of caught somewhere between what Detroit was trying to get away from and D'Andre Swift, but it's not quite as far as what they got with a guy like Jemir Gibbs. Like, he's a little bit caught between that. I don't think he's quite as runs into. to the back of his own blockers as a guy like Swift,

but I do think when things get muddied for him, he can have some issues, but he's a guy when I saw him spring into the second level, he has, to me, the most impressive, like flipping from that second to third gear where like as soon as he decides it's go time, he is just breaking someone's angle and he is completely gone. Like I think his long speed is really, really impressive.

And I also think what kind of really drew me to him other than that, obviously you love the explosive play potential, but he does some of the other. little things, right? Like, I actually think he is a pretty feisty pass protector. There's even some place where they would be running Will Howard and he's the lead blocker and he's taking somebody out. I love that. And I think he's a fairly comfortable pass catcher. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. There's one where he leads Howard into the end zone doing that. It was a fumble, but it should have been a touchdown. Yeah, right. Oh, that's right.

Phone about the one-year line, but yeah, it should have been, yeah. Right. I guess in my mind, I was like, you know, it should be. So I just assumed it was. Oh, yeah, no, it was a beautiful block. And he's, he's got blocks, although the Michigan State. game the Indiana he there's every almost every tape there's something where he's putting a guy on his back it's not always consistent I mean the highlights are great it's not always consistent but none of none of these running backs are I would say are consistent in terms of just being pure past protectors few running backs in college are but he is one of the better past protecting backs in this class as well and he doesn't fumble he catches the ball well I mean that screen that he took all the way against Texas right before half time was just unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things that, you know, you can have them on the field on first down.

You can have him on the field on third down. Like, it's, he's not a situational type of back. The guy when I was watching him that he reminded me of a little bit just because body type wise, they're fairly similar in size. And then he had a slug-o that he ran against Purdue. That was like a huge chunk player where he was lined up as the number one receiver. And it reminded me of a play that Aaron Jones ran against the Chiefs on Sunday night football. like five years ago.

So stylistically, when I was watching him, I was like, I can see a little bit of Aaron Jones to his game. And Aaron Jones is somebody that is not a 25 touch a game guy. Like, that's just not who he is as a running back. Like, he is part of a committee. He is part of a stable of backs within your offense. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, game. But it kind of feels like Trevian Henderson has to be that sort of player for you.

Yeah. I mean, the comp that I had was like a little bit better version of Chase Brown. Like that type of player. which is a similar type of guy that we're talking about. But another one who, you know, is Chase Brown, a guy that's going to carry the, carry the ball 25 times a game? Like, not necessarily.

He was last year, but maybe he shouldn't have been. Exactly. He was last year by necessity. They tried to trade for, oh, who's that back? Who's the bear's back? Derek that I'm forgetting. Cahleil Herbert?

Cleo Herbert. Yeah. The Bengals tried to trade for Cleo Herbert, and then he fumbled immediately and then was banished to the shadow round for the rest of the season. But they tried to have somebody that they brought in. then this kind of speaking of that like the types of backs we're talking about here if you're the raiders and you're starting your backfield from scratch in the second round and you're chip kelly and you know

both of these guys would you rather start your backfield with travion headers center quich shot junkins in that spot considering the skill sets for both yeah i don't know if there's a right or wrong answer here i mean that's not to ride the fence but i think it just yeah it comes down to um you're looking for the more explosive player, which is Trayvon-Henderson, has got a little more home run ability. Maybe not as consistent down to down, but he's going to give you a little bit more juice.

And at the end of the day, I can find, you know, a banger between the tackles. Give me the guy that's got a little more juice. So I would always, I would lean towards Henderson. That's why he's ranked higher in my rankings. But that's not to say that Quinn Sean Judkins is a slug. You know, he has, he has the makings to be, and every down back as well.

So I can understand the argument for either one of these guys. Junkins is big, Derek, but he's also a very good athlete. I mean, you look at his testing numbers. 40 was decent, but he is explosive. 38.5 inch vertical, 99th percentile broad jump among running backs. So this is not like a plotter, even though he is more of a big body back that was the innings eater for that Ohio State offense. And you see it the most at the second level.

Like, he's another guy where I don't think his long speed is like that. impressive to me, but his burst and his ability to just make these jump cuts for a guy who is his size at the second level is incredibly impressive. And then every now and then when he really wants to, you can just absolutely run through somebody's face. And I know production wise and like early in the season, he wasn't exactly what people thought he was coming from Ole Miss going to Ohio State. I know there were a little bit up and down early in the season. But when you watch some of his best tape either at Ole Miss or later in the season at Ohio State,

he is just an incredibly violent runner. And so that is where I actually think like the Raiders question is interesting. Henderson, like you mentioned, I think it's harder to find guys who are that explosive. But at the same time, you know he's always going to have to be part of a committee. I think with Judkins, even though I think he's a lesser player, you can convince me that he can be like Anagie Harris where he can take 260 carries over the course of a season. And that's completely fine. Yeah, at this point, I mean, the Raiders don't really have anybody.

So the idea of taking Henderson and still. needing the guy that can eat some carries for you. I don't even know who that would be. I mean, the free agent running back class is an absolute disaster. And the guys who are left aren't any better. So it's an interesting conversation. And I think that if the Raiders do not take Genty at 6, where they land on a running back in this process day and especially considering

who their offensive coordinator is, is probably going to be one of the more interesting conversations we're having on day two. No doubt. Double up a running back in this class or, you know, they could get a PFA in this class and still, I think, feel okay with who they have. But yeah, and with Judkins, we mentioned it with Gentie. It's fair to mention with Judkins, 800 career touches over his three years in college,

just a high amount, even though he did stay durable the last three years, no major injuries to speak of. My big issue with Judkins, I think, you know, like when you go to the grocery store when you're hungry and you end up spending more money than you should, like Judkins runs like he's starving. And I think part of this was he was the guy at Ole Miss.

And then he comes to Ohio State where he's sharing the carries. And so every time he got on the field, he was so eager to say, I'm going to go make a play. I'm going to go make a play that he's running into his own blockers. He's not running with patience. I think it got a little bit better towards the end of the year. But just that patience and tempo, I think are not as maybe not as natural for him as some of these other running backs. I think he can get better and better and better at that. but just not running so aggressively while not losing that violence that he runs with.

You know, it's just kind of a fine line with him. You know who he actually reminded me of for that exact reason? And it is kind of one of those things that has, it's a double-edged sword where like you love the violence that he runs with, but also like don't run into your own guys. It's a lot like Isaiah Pacheco. And I think Junkins is a better athlete than that. He's a little bit more explosive. But it's a lot of like, okay, he might grind out a few extra yards running through

an arm tackle here and there. but there also might be some plays where we blocked it for four and he got one because he ran straight into his guard. Like a little bit of that sort of dynamic. Yeah, not a lot of explosive plays on the Isaiah Pacheco tape. Not a lot of 15-yard runs on the Isaiah Pacheco tape these days, which is kind of why this is not a team we've talked about with this position, but with this group of players,

would it shock you, Dane, if the Chiefs just decided, eh, fuck it, we'll take a running back in the first round. I know that history isn't great there, but if you look at what they currently have, I don't think it's the weirdest argument to make that it might be justifiable in this spot considering the players in this class. Well, okay, let's say, yeah, Genties off the board.

I don't think Hampton makes it to the chiefs in the first round, but if he were on the board, I don't think anybody would be surprised if that was the pick. I would be a little bit surprised if maybe they reached on, I mean, I say reach, but if they took Treveon-Henderson that early in the first,

just considering, But you know what? When we were talking about that point in the draft, like all these guys are very similar in terms of grade in terms of how you tier them in this class. And so at the end of the first round, nothing would surprise me in this draft, to be honest. They have more needs. They have bigger needs than that. They still need defensive line help in the worst way. But if the board falls a certain way and they don't think a guy at that position or a couple of other positions of need are worth taking, just it's not something we've talked or thought about a lot.

but when you think about their current situation and the range of the draft, these guys might go in, I think it's probably worth mentioning. So we've hit the top five guys on your big board, Dane. Genti was at four, Hampton at 29, Johnson at 44, Henderson at 46, Judkins at 60. The next few categories here are going to allow us to get a little bit deeper into these classes and get a little bit more specific in the types of guys that we're talking about. Who is the guy in your mind, Dane, where you're just trusting the tape on them?

Even if the testing wasn't great, even if there's some questions, Beyond what he put on film last year, you're going to believe in what you watched. For me, that's easy. It's Jordan James from Oregon. You know, he's five, nine and a half, two and eight pounds. The testing wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great. 451, 40-yard dash, 155-10, 32-inch vert. 32-inch vert's not great.

So I think that the athletic profile is not great. And you see that because he doesn't have a ton of 50-yard, he doesn't have a ton of huge plays, but he's more of singles. 12 runs of 15 plus yards, which was a very low number considering he had 230 carries last year. So, all right, here, this stat is crazy. He ranked 10th in the FBS in carries of 10 plus yards, 39. But he had only three of 20 plus yards. So 173rd is what it is.

So I mean, like we're talking to, so the amount of singles and doubles, so he's not going to get you a 60 yards. run but he's going to get you a six yard run consistently. And so I think that's what I love. I love the ability to, okay, he got a little more, two more yards than he should have there, two more yards and should have there. And instead of, you know, where it's inconsistent, every single time he's touching the ball, he's consistently getting and putting you in second and four situations. Or it's third and two.

Like, he's just a guy that moves the ball and he does it because he runs low to the ground. He's very decisive. there is very little dancing to what he wants to do short stocky and that strong forward momentum keeps his balance keeps his legs grinding he also does a nice job of baiting defenders and then setting up the blocks before he can cut away from the leverage works well in tight spaces he doesn't need a big open area to make his moves he can work in those tight spaces so he's just a guy that's consistent he averaged uh you know i thought actually last year watching an oregon offense he was a better running back than Bucky Irving was, in my opinion.

And then this year as the lead back, he ran for almost 1,300 yards, 15 touchdowns. I mean, he was a true lead back for Oregon. So to me, I mean, Jordan James, he's going to go somewhere in the top four rounds. Maybe not as high as I have him ranked. But I think, you know, when it's all a sudden done, Jordan James is going to outplay where he was drafted. He was remarkably efficient on short yardage plays despite being a somewhat smaller back. Like, that's the type of guy that we're talking. about here. Derek, you're also a big Jordan James fan relatively. I'm looking at teams picking

and like outside of the top 75 into the fourth round and just thinking about what team and what offense might need somebody with this sort of skill set where he's an innings eater. He's somebody that's going to have a lot of carries for you. He's a consistent, reliable player, even if he's not that explosive. Is there a team as you think about it that might make sense for a player who's bringing what Jordan James is to the table?

I think Cleveland makes a lot of sense. They're picking it 94. Interesting. Yeah, I think that that's a really good one. I think Kansas City. And it's 104, by the way. Yeah, and if Kansas City hasn't taken it back by then, I think he could make some sense for them. I know Minnesota.

It's like the opposite of Jerome Ford in terms of what type of player he is and what he's bringing to your offense. That is exactly why they need him. It would be like what Ohio State just had with Judkins and Henderson, where it's like Ford is your explosive, gets all these long plays, but he's just not that efficient of a player. And then you have your innings eater with a guy like Jordan James. I also, I honestly think either San Francisco or Minnesota in that range could make sense for me.

I think San Francisco at any point, just adding contingency plans for McCaffrey makes some sense. And then with Minnesota, I can't do it. I can't. The Niners can not draft another running back in the first four rounds. I'm not allowing it to happen. But the other ones... You're going to take Garendo and you're going to like it. Well, all the other ones he drafted are like,

this guy's an athlete and he's just going to... I'm going to turn him into some superstar, which is what the garendo pick was. This one would be like, all right, I need to turn back the clock a little bit and just get me a guy who can get us six yards, like Dan said. And I think James would actually accomplish that pretty well for them. And then, like I said, Minnesota,

I know they traded for Jordan James, but... Or for Jordan Mason. I think Jordan James is like could be as good or better than Mason most last year for the Niners. Derek, who is your trust the tape guy? I honestly struggled with this category a little bit. And so I actually figured this was just the best spot to talk about Cam Scataboo. This I love this. This is a man who is learning the content game, knowing that we had to talk about him at some point.

So I'm just going to pick him in order to do it here. I very much appreciate you doing this. I knew it would be a bad show if we didn't. talk about Camp Scataboo. So I figured I'd throw him in here. And I think you actually do genuinely have to trust the tape with him because he's not a guy who tested all that well. He jumped okay, but he was a guy who I think ran in the mid four sixes. He was a half inch vertical. It's way more than okay. He ran a four. He ran like a four six five at his pro day. So you've got the fast track and you still are in a four. So it's not an ideal time. So I think that's kind of where

you get some of the struggles with him. Also, he's an older prospect who, similar to the other guys that we've talked about just has a lot of mileage already. So those are the reasons that you might struggle with him. But I think when you actually watch him on film, there are some things that you like. I think almost like we talked about with Gentine, it's not this good, but he has a kind of bizarre ability to contort his body around contact and make sure that he's minimizing it so that he can, okay, I can take this instead of being brought down right here, I can take this hit and I can stumble forward for three yards. Or maybe I have a chance to break out of it and go hit another guy. He's a very flexible player for a guy.

who is a little bit, you know, smaller and thicker. I don't think he's all that explosive. I don't think he's that quick. But if you just need a guy who I think maybe in like the fourth round, fifth round can really just kind of be an innings eater type for you, you know, maybe on 100 and some odd carries on early downs and just kind of be that type of player. I do think that he could, he could probably give you that at a decent clip.

Talked about Jentie at 153 missed tackles force. That was number one in the country. Camp Scadaboo had 103. He was the one that was 49 behind Ash. Gentie. Dane, you relatively are a little bit lower on Camp Scataboo. He is 77th in the consensus board right now. He is not in your top 100.

Where is the gap to you between how other people are seeing him and the way that you look at him as a prospect? I don't know. Yeah, I have a huge, there's a huge gap because I have a, I put a early fourth round grade on him. So he would make my top 120, say. He's, he runs with such tremendous resolve. it's just it's fun to watch pad level contact balance gets the most out of every carry

I mean if you you draft him you know you're upgrading your backfields just physicality and toughness which you love and he's also very good as a past catcher out of the backfield the first running back since McCaffrey to rush for over 1,500 yards and have at least 500 receiving yards

in the same season so this is a guy that has production he's done it he's just you know the way he runs it's it's just going to be harder to find those yards in the NFL it's going to be harder to break those tackles when you're comparing big 12 defenses to NFL defenses so i think the and you know it's because he breaks tackles a little bit differently than say like an ashen gentie where gentie's got maybe a little more make you miss and you know the way that he can squirm out of contact where scadaboo's taken on a lot of that contact and so he's

which is just going to be a little bit tougher to be consistently low man wins and get out of those tackles. So I think he's a good back. I would draft him on day three. I would just, I don't see him as a top 100 guy like some other people do. The comparison I've seen based on the 40 time and based on the skill set and the strengths he's bringing to the table, David Montgomery has been mentioned a lot, Dane. Do you think that is overly optimistic or do you think that is a fair comparison for his game? scatigab as that's that's best case you know like that's if everything turns out the way that it could you know there's an avenue where that's where it turns into he could become a david montgomery type of back i i don't think that's impossible um but i also think that's best case scenario if we're laying

out all the different options that that could happen with him so but at the same time you know like it's the value of david montgomery um you know if you if you could have david montgomery right now say, you know, would you trade a third round pick for David Montgomery? No, probably not. So, you know, like, I don't think it's just, even if he is David Montgomery, I don't think that's necessarily a reason to draft him in a third round. We talked about a trade man, Henderson, Derek is somebody that is a good pass catcher and a good pass protector. Dane made a joke before we started recording that Scataboo sounds like something that Adam Sandler would say. Watching Camp Scadaboo try to pass protect is like watching Bobby Bouchet if he was like

10 drinks in. Like, That's what it feels like. There is a lot of scattershot, like big, big drop the hammer moments that can go either way in terms of what I saw when watching him. There are outside of, it's kind of funny. I think the top two running backs in this class are really good pass protectors in Gentian Hampton. Most of the other guys after that, it's a lot of throwing contact in a weird way or a lot of guessing and you have no idea where their eyes are supposed to be.

And Scatubo, unfortunately, does fall into that category a little bit. His eye level and then just the mechanics are just, they need a lot of work. He's got the body type. He's got the functional strength. But yeah, the eye level and just the fundamentals of doing it are just not NFL ready. We're going to take one more quick break here. And then we're going to come back with a few more categories to run through before we get out of here. Next one here, Derek, let you kick this one off.

Who is the back in this class that you just can't believe isn't getting more love in the process after you went back and watch these guys? Yeah, so this guy could have honestly fit into the last category for me as well because he didn't run all that well. But to me, it's Kansas running back, Devin Neal. When I watched him relative to expectation and what I was looking at with consensus boards and stuff going in, he was by far my favorite player to watch. I mean, he is, for one, I just love his pace and his footwork and his vision as a runner. He's just a guy who clearly gets it. He sets stuff up well. He's incredibly decisive. You don't really see him doing a whole lot of pitter pattern. his feet behind the line of scrimmage and wasting time. He's just a very mature runner, and I appreciate that about him. And then what I also appreciate is he's just, he's a bigger guy. He measured in like 5-11 close to like 2.15. So he's a pretty rugged runner. And he's just, when you watch him, you absolutely see the lower body strength. Like his ability to, if a defensive end kind of comes off and gets arms on him, he's just able to run right through it and get to the second level. I just really love that about him. He's incredible on the goal line for all of those same

reasons. He to me kind of reminded me a little bit of like, you remember those handful of really good years from like Jordan Howard? That is kind of what he reminds me of. Just a bigger rugged. Oh, I sure do. I know you do, Robert. But he's just like a bigger, rugged, more mature running back who maybe isn't all that explosive, but just brings a lot of that good stuff. And then I actually think he has pretty decent hands. He's not like an explosive pass catcher, but he's comfortable doing it. So it's another one of those things where it's like, yep, we can just have this guy out there and it's never going to be a problem. So he was just a guy where I see him consistently outside of, you know, like the top 120 and stuff on

consensus big boards. And he to me is a guy I would absolutely take in the top 100. He was at the back end of the consensus board that we ran on like St. Patrick's Day that Austin mocked it. I think he was 99th. Dane, he's outside of your top 100. Is it similar to Scataboo where he's just outside of your top 100? Where do you sit with Devon Neal from Kansas? Yeah, I have a solid fourth round grade on him.

You know, I like him as well. I think he's, you know, it's my comp, very different body types. But it reminded me a little bit of Kyron Williams, where it's, it really shows the, it's a great example of the difference between throttling your speed is how it's more important than just sprinting speed for a running back. Because that pacing that he brings is really impressive. He's got some wiggle to him. He has a knack for setting up defenders. and he did it consistently the last four years for an inconsistent Kansas offense where he's averaging over six yards of carry consistently.

So, yeah, and I agree. He can catch the ball in the backfield, swing routes, wheel routes. He was really productive. I think he catches the ball really cleanly outside of his frame. He protects the ball, very few fumbles the last few years. He's durable. I mean, he does not miss games. so consistently he's on the field, getting the job done.

So, yeah, he's just a quality running back that I think, you know, you can plug in and he can be part of your mix. What's keeping him from being a little bit higher than that to you, just like a lack of high-end tools? You think the ceiling is fairly limited? Yeah, I think he's like even though he is the size that he is, then he can, like Derek was saying, get out of some of those tackle attempts because he's size. I don't think he's a punishing runner. I don't think he consistently like attacks contact the way that he looks. So that's part of it. He's at the long speed like we talked about.

You know, there are times where pursuit will catch up to him and, you know, really kind of take things away. Sometimes he's overly patient at the line of scrimmage where there are times where I wish you would just be a little more aggressive attacking the line of scrimmage. The pass blocking, like we said, it's up and down. the Kansas State tape is, I can picture it my mind right now of just how that was very up and down. So, you know, it's more, yeah, things like that where I don't think he has a true, like, an out pitch, you know, like he doesn't have that one pitch he can go to that just to get anybody out, but he doesn't, you know, really have any deficiencies that make you say, okay, this guy is not going to make it at the next level. He's just a really well-rounded player.

Who's your answer here, Dane, for the guy that you are surprised as not getting more love in the process. R.J. Harvey from UCF who is my guy. Yeah, he's former quarterback. He didn't play running back for the first time until he got to UCF. He transferred from Virginia. He was a quarterback growing up. Virginia signed him as a quarterback and he decided to enter the portal, goes to UCF and they say, listen, you can get on the field now if you're a running back. Let's make the change. He did it. And man, he just watching him the last two years was a lot of fun. I

I thought of who was going to be in last year's draft. So I had him, queued up all ready to go last year, goes back, actually has a better year, has over 1,500 yards. And he led FBS this year in the percentage of his carries

that resulted in a 10 plus yard run, 23.3. So almost a quarter of his carries resulted in a gain of 10 plus yards. He's equal parts patient at the line, so he lets blockers do their job, but he can make these abrupt lateral cuts. He's very elusive.

in his lower body. He's hopping from one gap to the other. His proximity to awareness is fantastic. So he can maneuver between all these spaces. You see the elusive burst where he's creating more than maybe he should or the average running back does, spins out of tackle attempts. I think he has a foundation to be a solid pass catcher. To me, there's a lot to like about him both bringing the juice, but then also being

consistent with what you want from your running back. I just love the stop start ability. Like his ability to just make guys miss and throttle down is so incredibly impressive and set guys up in space. Watching him reminded me a little bit of watching Bucky Irving in space this year, where you just feel like the thing slowed down for him when he gets out into space. I was very impressed watching him. Derek, when you watched Harvey, was there anything that gave you pause? Are you also a fan of him? Where do you sit with him?

I had an interesting experience with Harvey where both on the surface and then, early in watching him. There's a lot of things that would lead me to not like this type of player typically. He's like 5-8, probably 205 on a very good day, so he's not a bigger guy. And I think you see that in the way that he runs. He's not very strong. I think he can lose contact or lose contact balance pretty easily. Very bad pass protector. And I also think stylistically, I struggle with him sometimes because he loves to bounce and not just run forward. And I'm very much like, I can be a boomer sometimes while I'll watch a running back and be like, man, just get downhill. That's why I love like Devin Neil. He'll just go. And so I struggled with Harvey, especially early on when I was watching him.

But the more I watched him, the more I really did start to appreciate how good his stop start ability is. You see it a lot at the second level, but I also really started to appreciate it behind the line of scrimmage. Like when he does need to bounce and it's a good decision, he can bend a play all the way back to the other side of the field. And like when he makes the right call to do that, it really does look beautiful. Like my kind of when I was watching him, it was like a little bit of Tony Pollard-ish. I know Pollard is a little bit bigger, but another player who does he need to be bouncing as much as he does? I don't know, probably not. But when he does, it looks really, really good.

And you're just hoping that he hits on those good, you know, those good calls more often than not. And he really is, I think among, I think the other thing too, when you're a smaller back, you have to show me long speed or I'm just going to be completely out. And Harvey does have that. He does have pretty good long speed. So typically not a player. 40. 440. 440.

40% jumps. I mean, really the only reason his, like, R. is a little bit lower is because he's a smaller play. He's small. But when you look at it, 15 plus yard runs, he had 32 of them this year, which was the second highest number in FBS, 6th nationally in miss tackles force per attempt. So the speed is there, the home run hitting is there, and he's able to make guys miss. I really like him. He's a little bit undersized.

I can understand why that might be where the reason he goes a little bit later. But just in terms of a guy who feels like he would be a monstrous pain in the ass to play against, He is the guy that jumped out to me when I was watching him 100%. Let's get a little bit deeper here into this class, Dane. Who is your favorite day three running back in this 2025 group? So I originally had Devon Neal here. But since we talked about him, I will pivot to Jerkwez Hunter, Auburn running back. Another guy that's in that could realistically have justified him late third,

but probably more of an early fourth round type of guy. same, you know, same tier as Scataboo and right there with Neil. He's probably not going to go until day three. But, you know, he's just, I mean, he's built really well. What are he weighing at the combine? He was 5093-204. So he's another one that's, you know, a little bit shorter, but he's a little stocky. I mean, his muscles have muscles.

He is like really ripped. And he runs like that. He runs with authority. He runs with, uh, just this tenacity that I think wears down a defense. And so, and he doesn't, nothing's cheap with him. If you don't get him to the ground, he's going to keep moving his feet through contact. And he will continue getting yards.

So this past year and the SEC average 6.4 yards per carry. Really productive year. I just, every time I watched him, it was just consistently. I'm thinking of the Kentucky game in that tape. And he was just consistently getting more than he should have. And those types of guys always stand out to me. The guys that get more than the average back, and I think he's one of them. He has a burst button when you give him a lane.

You know, he's a really, the football character is off the charts with him with the way he works, the way he prepares. That's something that his coaches really harp on with him. I think that he's not going to go until day three. But a lot of the things that I look for in a back, he has them because he's physical, he's balanced. he 36.6% of his carries this year resulted in a first down or touchdown that was number two in the FBS. So again, it's just production. It's a guy that likes to get north and south, keeps his legs pumping and just goes and create yards. I'm looking at a picture of him right now. The size of his arms compared to his frame overall is just hilarious.

He's like 74% bicep. Yeah, he is he's a ripped dude. And he's like talking to him. I can't remember where it was. Maybe it was a senior bowl, but he's just, he's like a cowboy. Like, that's how he sees himself. Like, he is a, uh, kind of a throwback with the way that he likes to play. And, you know, it's just he, he, the vision, the tempo, maybe a little up and down sometimes. But he'll be a hammerhead.

And he will just thrust himself into contact without gearing down. And he's not going to go down to contact because he will keep pumping his legs. And so, and I think what it helps him too is, I think he can be a star on special teams as well. And so the type of back that you're not your number one in your depth chart, but two or three in your depth chart, you love to have this guy. Who's your favorite day three guy that you watched, Eric? So this was one where I struggled with not a little bit because I couldn't find a guy, but it was just we have a few other categories here and I threw them into there. So I kind of would have rather saved them for that. I'll go to one that I actually liked his tape a few years ago.

and then he kind of had a tumultuous couple of years and he's now in the draft, but it's Rahim Sanders out of South Carolina. When he was at Arkansas, I really, really liked his tape. He was another guy who long speed wasn't great, but I think those first like 15 yards, just his ability to play behind blocks.

He was a really thick runner. He was just able to bounce off of guys. I think when you saw what he could do at his best back then, I think he looked really good. And so he's kind of had a tumultuous end to his college career. And I think he's not now the prospect that he was, but by like the sixth round, this absolutely a guy I would be willing to take

and be like, we can maybe get a hundred or so like rugged carries out of him to be our innings eater. I think that's absolutely on the table. He's interesting because he was a receiver when he got to Arkansas and then they transitioned him to running back. And so I think there's definitely a process there where he was just kind of going out and playing ball.

And, you know, along the way learned how to be a better running back after he transferred, especially after he transferred to South Carolina. Carolina this past year. But yeah, he is a bigger back. And, you know, he's sometimes too big. I mean, at one point, he was over 250 pounds.

So just keeping, you know, the weight down. And I actually like him best almost like in an hback role where, you know, use them on wheels and pivots and, you know, use them in different ways where he can, because he's a really good pass catcher. And so really tapping into that, I think is, you know, could be maybe the way for him to carve out a long-term role in the NFL. Let's get to our next one here, calling this the Bucson. Bucky Irving Award for a player who might not go in the top 75, but we think can push for

a thousand yards in the right spot. Dane, I'll let you start this one off. Who is your candidate for the Bucky Irving Award in this draft? I'm going to go with Trevor Etyen. Travis's little brother. I say little, but the way Trevor is built is much different than the way his brother is built. is Trevor is he's 200 pounds but he's so short he's only 5,8 and 3 quarters, so he's stockier.

And so he looks a lot different than his brother. But it's just interesting when you compare the body types because his older brother weighs more, but the body types just don't look very similar at all. ETSN, I think, is just, he's a well-rounded back. I mean, I don't think there's anything about his game that is too, I mean, once in a while he'll get a little too bounce happy. Or, you know, at the second level, I wish maybe he were better at making a guy miss.

Like, there are things you can nitpick him about. But I think with a lot of the key traits you want a running back, he has a lot of that. And this year, maybe the biggest knock against him was he was banged up quite a bit, especially this past year from Georgia. He went, he was at Florida for two years, transferred to Georgia this past year. And, you know, he played in, I think, 10 games.

But he was not 100% throughout most. of the year. If he is healthy and he goes to a situation where he can get carries, I think he will make the most of those carries. He's just very compactly built. I love the way that he pairs his eyes with his feet. And so he sets up his moves well. He's agile. His cuts are sharp. He can make those last minute redirects where he's going to really tempo that defense. So I think that there's a lot to like about him at the next level if he goes to a situation where he could get some regular carries. Derek, who is your Bucky Irving award winner in this class.

This one, I feel like in the way that I had to frame it, if it's going to be a guy who comes and gets a thousand yards, he has to have some degree of explosive ability. And so when I was looking at some of the other guys that I was able to get into in the third, you know, through fifth round and stuff like that, probably the best one who fits into that bucket for me is DJ Giddens from Kansas State. And there are actually a few things that I kind of struggle with about his game. I think there are times where he runs a little bit too upright. and I think he doesn't want to get down and run behind his pads.

Like he's a 215 pound back and sometimes you watch him and you're like kind of looks more like 195. But his top gear is really impressive. And I think he does do a good job of being a pretty explosive player. He's a pretty good pass catcher to me. There were moments where he was able to even down the field make some pretty impressive catches. I remember I think it might have been against Sincey.

He caught like a sail route. And I was like, okay, that's a pretty, that's going to get some coaches to really love you if you have that sort of pass catching ability. So I think if you can get him into an offense that is, you know, he's probably more limited to being a guy who is more of a zone runner because he is more upright and you kind to need to just let him run outside zone, make the one cut and go. But I do think if you can get him into the right type of system like that, I do think that he could be a guy who could surprise a little bit.

Last one here, Dane. Let's call this the Gio Bernard Award for past catching first backs. Maybe not second round picks like Gio Bernard was. I believe Gio Bernard was a second round pick. but a guy you feel like is a past catching option first and foremost for these teams that you might be able to get a little bit later. Is there somebody in this class that fits that bill for you? LeQuint Allen from Syracuse. He 64 catches last year, 119 over his three years at Syracuse.

This is another guy that is ripped up, run strength, contact balance. I don't know that he has what it takes to be a lead back. act necessarily, but I would love this guy as a part of my, part of my backfield, change of pace guy, because I know what he brings as a pass catcher. And then he's also very good in past protection as well. So as a third down guy, third down plus, because I think he could be more than just a third down player. But he catches the ball really naturally. I mean, it's, he's got big hands. He catches outside his frame. Has the Syracuse running back records, actually, for catches and receiving yards. So he's more than just a scum.

green target. I mean, you can flex them across the formation, try to use them as a mismatch weapon. So, LeQuint Allen from Syracuse, I think fits this perfectly. How about you, Derek? Your past catching option in this class that you liked when you went back and watched everybody. I kind of liked, at least for this role, Bershard Smith from SMU. And again, kind of like Dayton said, not going to be a guy who is, you know, a leadback type. He's 510, 196. Like, he's just not going to have that type of style. And even when you watch him as a runner, not a guy who bangs between the tackles and breaks, you know, breaks off tackles, but they threw him a lot of passes last year.

Like he caught 39 passes out of the backfield for SMU. And a lot of them were kind of like check down stuff. But the quarterback play was not great at SMU. So you actually saw him make some really impressive catches like outside of his frame, you know, going up for it, kind of behind his back a little bit, making him stop his momentum, but still be able to gather it and go make to play his yards after catch. So I think if a team needs a guy who can offer them a little bit of something out of the backfield in that respect,

little bit of explosive ability. I think Smith could probably check that box for a team. He was a receiver, his first three years at Miami. He was kind of like the time. That makes sense. Oh, okay. You know, Tyrone Tracy was running back or a wide receiver at what Iowa. And then he transfers Purdue, becomes a running back.

And it was same thing with Prashard Smith at Miami. And then he transfers SMU this past year. They turn him into more of a running back. But yeah, you still see that receiving ability outside of the backfield. He's just got a natural feel for it. And, you know, he can help you on special teams as well. He was a kickoff return man. So as long as, like, he's a big one where I think he's a guy that's going to be on a lot of visits.

You know, like 30 visits and all that. Just because teams want to figure him out. The character is up and down. And that's something that teams have brought up with him. He was benched for the first half against Stanford this year because he missed a few team meetings and classes, things like that. but if you get this guy to really commit and focus and lock in, I mean, he's got all the talent to really be not like a difference maker,

but a guy that can make an impact as a change of pace guy, kind of like Tyrone Tracy did this last year as a rookie for the Giants. Anybody that we have not mentioned, Dane, that you want your thoughts on the record as we're doing the running back show? Well, we didn't mention Dylan Samson from Tennessee. He was the only other running back that we didn't mention that is in my top 100. You know, he's what he did this year in the SEC was pretty remarkable. He almost 1,500 yards, average almost 6 yards per carry going up against SEC defenses.

He just, he's another guy that's a little bit undersized. He's under 200 pounds. But he's got speed. He ran a 4-4-2 with the pro day. And he plays fast. So it's just it's straight electricity when the ball's in his hands. So he's a lot of fun to watch. I think he's another one of those.

If you're just looking for juice on offense, look at him on day two. I think he makes a lot of sense. I think we did a good job hitting on some of these day three guys. You know, the few that we did in, Ollie Gordon from Oklahoma State had such an amazing 2023 season and then 2024 wasn't. And so teams are kind of trying to figure that out. Damien Martinez from Miami, big bruising running back,

who is not going to rip off a lot of explosive runs. The speed's not going to blow you away, but he just continues to pound away. So, I mean, we could really talk for another hour about the running backs because there's just so many of these guys, which is kind of the whole point of this class, which, you know, kind of makes it fun. Because the order these guys are drafted is not going to be what my order is

or what your order is or anybody's order. It's just everyone's going to have their own little, the guys they like, the guys that maybe fit, them best in terms of what their strengths are. And so it's going to be fun on draft weekend to see the order they come off the board. Well, you mentioned talking about guys drafting the top 100 and the fact we might not get to them all here, we are going to get to them on draft weekend because we are once again doing a live draft show coming to you guys this year from a studio in Chicago, Green Bay, not a ton of studio space

in Green Bay. Some people, when we mentioned that we weren't going to Green Bay, we were like, oh, man, you guys just don't want to go to Green Bay. I like my time in Green Bay. I would have been happy to go to Green Bay. We're trying to find a situation that makes sense for us. We are going to do it here, and we are going to be doing something very similar

to what we've done over the last few years. We're coming to you guys live on Thursday and Friday night. Thursday night, it is going to be the three of us, plus Bruce Feldman, which I am very, very excited about a legend, that man. I'm so pumped to have him be a part of what we're doing. And then on Saturday, on Friday, still working that out. But we will be having another live draft. show this year. So please be on the lookout for that. We'll have plenty more details to come

between now and when the draft kicks off. For now, that is all we've got. We'll be back with the next mailbag on Monday. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.