The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Between the Lines Ep. 4: Rumblings of Hope

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

If there's one area of progress regarding diversity in football, it is in NFL front offices. More than ever in league history, there are more diverse GMs and presidents running franchises. In episode 4 of Between the Lines, host Tashan Reed speaks with a range of front office executives on the challenges and successes they've faced in gaining their positions.Voices in the episode include Doug Williams, Jason Wright, Sandra Douglass Morgan, Rod Graves, Reggie McKenzie, Terry Fontenot and more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I think at the end of the day, it's all about ownership. Regardless what anybody say... This is former NFL quarterback, Doug Williams. Regardless of what the NFL does, it's probably trying to get minorities in position. The bottom line is rest with 32 people. His statement may appear broad, but it's an accurate assessment of the pervasive lack of diversity among NFL decision makers. The group at most fault for that is clear. The owners.

You know, regardless of what they say, say about the interview process and they didn't interview well or what have you. The bottom line is this, when these interviews are being taken, is who's in the room listening, who's in the room asking the question. Williams is now an executive for the Washington commanders. Among the executive tier, it's undisputable that things are much better than they used to be. But if the fluctuation among the coaching numbers have shown anything, is that there's no guarantee that progress will be sustained.

Nine out of ten, there's no minority. There's no blacks in the room. It's whoever that they choose to be in the room. Consistently, he's seen owners largely surround themselves with and seek the advice of people who look like them. That effectively shuts diverse candidates out of the process. And the ownership don't really get an opportunity to meet and greet the guys that are up for these jobs. I'm Tashon Reed.

This is Between the Lines, Episode 4, rumblings of hope. Doug Williams has never been a stranger to racism. He grew up in southern Louisiana, about 20 minutes north of Baton Rouge, a predominantly black area in the 50s and 60s. You know, it was one of those things you understood where you grew up. You understand what you was dealing with. You know, your mom, your dad told you about, you know, walking the streets at night.

You can't walk the street at night because you don't know what might happen. You know, it didn't bother us because we understood where we were. He lived along a mile long stretch of houses between two crossroads. The Ku Klux Klan had a strong presence nearby, and their members made regular trips to the area to ostracize those who lived there. You know, it wasn't uncommon to see a crossburn at each one of those crossroads. So I grew up in that era of trying to, I guess, scare you and let you understand that, you know, we still hear what have you. All the way through his college playing career at Grambling, he never had to think much about race.

It wasn't until he made it to the NFL that it hit him. Despite becoming the first black quarterback to win a Super Bowl, he was criticized differently and treated as lesser than all the way through until he retired following the 1989 season. It left an impact that sticks with him. Beyond which, when I left the league in 1990, I wasn't a big fan of the NFL because of the world. because of what I had to go through

and the way I looked up on it and I just felt like I was fed up with the NFL and didn't want nothing to do with it and went to coach high school. I went to coach and I thought that was the greatest thing in the history to be able to go coach some young guys and you got there, I'm patient to do it and I did it. Williams briefly returned to the NFL as a scout with the Jaguars in 1995

but left to become the head coach at Moorehouse in 1997. and held the same role at Gremlin from 1998 through 2003. Got a call from John Gruden and asked me that I want to come and work with him in Tampa. And I told him no, I was having too much for him in college. But I did go down during minicamp and spoke to the guys. And, you know, the next year he said the same thing. And so I left. I left and went to Tampa and realized that this wasn't as bad of opportunity for me to be working

in the NFL. Things went smoothly initially, but that changed when the Bucks fire Gruden and then GM Bruce Allen following the 2008 season. Williams, who was working at the Senior Bowl in Mobile Alabama, thought he may have a shot at interviewing for the GM role

after five seasons working as an executive. I mean, it wasn't an easy road. It was a lot of opportunities that was not afforded to me. I remember when they fired John Gruden and they fired Bruce Allen, and I got a call from the owner, Joe Glazer, and he told me that Mark Dominique was going to be the general manager.

And I just said, oh, okay, you know, it wasn't it wasn't a matter of me being the general manager, getting an opportunity to be a general manager. He just told me who was going to be a general manager. And I realized then that, you know, it ain't easy for us to be in those positions to get those jobs because of, you know, the color of your skin, you just have to bite the bullet and keep going for them. Williams would never earn an opportunity as an NFL GM. And even for those who did rise up the ranks as executives, the path was often long and hard regardless of their credentials.

My dad was always my hero. You know, he was a person I looked up to. I wanted to emulate. Rod Graves is a rare case of a black man who entered the game with a head start. It was just natural for me to gravitate into an area that he had worked in. Graves' father, Jackie Graves, coached in the college ranks before becoming a director of personnel for the Philadelphia Eagles. And so when Rod decided to pursue an executive career of his own, he had a better idea of what to expect.

Just a great privilege not only to have him as a resource as I was trying to learn the business myself, but to watch him work on a day-to-day basis, his work ethic, you know, how he strive for excellence. and he built a strong reputation, which I obviously benefited from later through connections he had in the NFL. So my dad was a great reason for any success that I've had. Graves started as an executive with the USFL Philadelphia Stars and landed a job with the Bears as a regional scout just two years later with some help from his father. He was certainly conscious of his race, but he felt more freedom to focus solely on his role. During that time, I wasn't as worried about the environment or the landscape as much as I was about, you know, just getting my job done, trying to perform at a high level. But there wasn't very many people of color in high-ranking positions, coaches, general managers at any level.

I did realize it was unique for me to have the opportunities that I was getting. and in large part I credited my dad, but I also knew that I had to make the best of those opportunities when they were presented. Graves went on to land several promotions in the 90s with the Bears and Cardinals, but the GM title alluded him. That wasn't exclusive to him. There had never been a black GM in NFL history. But in 2002, Ozzie Newsom broke through and became the first black GM in NFL history when he was hired by the Ravens. And a year later, Graves finally got his shot, becoming the GM for the Arizona Cardinals. Despite having a theoretical leg up on his competitors because of his father, it still took 19 years for Graves to become a GM.

It's something that I think we often say more in the black community than anywhere else is that we always feel like we got to be more prepared than the next guy. And maybe we get the same opportunities, maybe we don't. But surely, you've got to work at it. And that's what I strive to do. And I think that's what was different, was just access to information and people you could lean on in a very, not casual way, but, you know, sort of off the record. I wish I'd had more of those resources coming along. Reggie McKenzie was a benefactor of those resources, but his journey to becoming the Raiders GM in 2012 remained an arduous one. Ron Wolf at the Hula Bowl, I'm going to say, gave him a big, strong grip while my hands just covered it.

I guess I just had big hand in that 85 draft. I was at my hands measure once and it was by him. McKenzie was drafted by the Los Angeles Raiders in 1985. Ron Wolf, who was a Raider scout when they drafted McKenzie, went on to become the Packers GM in 1991. A few years later, McKenzie retired from the NFL and started work as an assistant. assistant coach at Tennessee. Wolf ran into McKenzie that year while visiting Tennessee and told then-volunteer's head coach, Philip Fulmer, that he wanted to talk to McKinsey about a job. The next morning, one of my coaches called me in his office. What's going on? He said,

I had a long talk with Ron Wolf. And pretty much he said, he wanted to interview for a job. And I was like, when the college office, he said, all I remember coached him, he said, it don't matter. Call him right now. He had no intentions of becoming an NFL executive. He wanted to get his graduate degree before working as a high school athletic director and coach football back home. Everybody asked you, how do you get into scouts? I say scouting found me that was not an aspiration. It wasn't a situation where I knew a lot of people, whether it was blackhead coaches or whether it was general managers or big time.

Even scouts, I can kind of name two scouts that I remember that I saw. during that time. It wasn't a lot of people in that field. But the opportunity with the Packers fell into his lap, off the strength of a relationship and someone in power being willing to offer an opportunity. And Green Bay didn't have. There was no blacks on the Scalding Department. Ron Wolff wanted to change that up a little bit. He's doing my whole background. He just wanted to see if I could do the job. Over the course of 18 years with the Packers, McKenzie helped him assemble rosters that made 13

playoff appearances and won two Super Bowls. And in 2012, McKenzie got the opportunity to put together his own team. Three months ago, at 3 a.m., I received a phone call from Dr. General Hilliard that my father had passed away. It was a sad day for the Raider Nation. Al Davis, who had served as the Raiders de facto GM for decades, had died in October of 2011. Davis's son, Mark Davis, took control of the franchise and elected to hire a GM. rather than make personnel decisions like his father did. I consulted with Ron Wolfe to help me identify potential candidates, one of which was Reggie McKenzie.

Mark hired McKinsey in a full circle moment. Without the efforts from the Davis family and the culture they set with the Raiders, McKenzie likely never would have become an executive. I'm proud to be in leadership to move in this organization into the new era. That's why McKinsey, who's now an executive, executive with the Dolphins working under GM Chris Greer makes it a point to help lift up others. The key is making sure you communicate on the ground levels.

From Chris standpoint, Chris ain't going to know everybody because he doesn't go to all these colleges, like some of us that we may bump into and get a resume here or get a card and say, hey, man, I'm looking to get in. We got to feed that information trying to get in to just get their foot in the door. There's potential for there to become a cycle of diverse leaders opening doors for others to follow in their footsteps. But that requires them getting opportunities in the first place. Typically, that depends on a white decision maker to give them a shot. That's what happened for Falcons GM, Terry Fontenow.

I started out, literally, I was in community affairs and I was driving players around to different appearances. Steve Leeson was one of the first guys that I would drive him around. Some of the young guys that just going to talk to kids, schools. Fontenot played football at Tulane before starting his career working in community affairs in marketing with the Saints in the early 2000s. But what I would do is I would stay late. Then there's a couple of scouts that gave me a chance to sit down and watch film with him and some coaches that let me sit on and watch film with him and just kind of took the time to kind of teach me, take me on the road with him and do those things. And I was at that point in my life. I was 23.

It was young, didn't have any kids. And so I was able to just spend all 24-7 working in football. I was able to do that. Once there was an opening, Mickey Loomis told me, hey, look, we might have an internship here, so we'll give you an opportunity. But it started with a lot of people opening their doors to me.

Fontenow started as a scout in 2003 and went on to work for the Saints for 18 years. He left to become the Falcons GM in 2021. He was the first black GM in franchise history, which was something he didn't take lightly. It's an opportunity, right? It's not I wouldn't even call it an accomplishment. I call it an opportunity.

And it's important for me to handle it the right way. I look at it more like a challenge. I do have this opportunity, and there's probably, there have obviously been a lot of minorities that have worked here in other places that maybe should have gotten the opportunity and it's on me to handle it the right way and to do things the right way. So I think it's a challenge. It's an opportunity, and I'm excited about it,

but I have to handle it the right way. Fonino doesn't view his race as an impediment. Like Graves, he just focused on excelling at the job at hand. With that being said, he understands that diverse candidates often need help networking and growing their way into positions of power. He feels it's part of his duty to help diverse candidates in his organization figure that out. It's on myself and everyone in this organization to help them grow, so they're prepared to interview when they get those opportunities.

I think that's what's critical. And so when these organizations are going through that process, they're not thinking about hiring the best minority candidate. They're thinking about hiring the best candidate. And there are going to be plenty of really qualified minorities. To have widespread impact, that's something that must be replicated across the league. And I think it's on each organization individually to go through that right process. And also it's on those organizations to make sure they have the right culture in the building where those guys are allowed to grow.

If any person, whether they're color, race, sex, if any person is held back in this organization in this building or they're not allowed to grow, then that's on me. That's on the leadership of this organization. It's on us to make sure everyone's allowed to grow. so when they get those opportunities, you're prepared for. Identifying the future leaders of football has come with the understanding that their paths aren't all the same. Hamilton is a small farm town, basically, in North Florida. A lot of people say that it's lower Alabama.

We don't have the Florida palm trees or the beaches. We have dirt roads and cornfield. That's Champ Kelly, Assistant GM of the Las Vegas Raiders. Kelly's journey into the front office began in a small Florida panheadle town across the border from Alabama. I grew up a town with a population of less than 500, raised by my grandparents. My granddad worked at a sawmill for over 40 years. My grandmother was a textile worker. We didn't have a whole lot.

I didn't get a chance to go to NFL games as a kid. Kelly's grandparents, Mary and June Sorry, were loving, deeply religious, and emphasized the importance of him making something of himself. Kelly became a Renaissance man in high school. As an athlete, he starred in football, basketball, and baseball. As a student, he graduated second in his class and was the president of the student council. But yet, despite his academic prowess, when it came time to tour colleges during his recruitment, some of the schools didn't emphasize their academic offerings.

I was really high on academic, and I knew what I wanted to do. I wanted to major in computer science. So when I went on visit to Vanderbilt, I don't know, we should say this or not, but when they were storing me around the campus, they never showed me like the engineering building, the buildings where people who were going to be major in the computer science would be housed. So for me, that didn't seem like the place I needed to go. When I went to my trip to University of Kentucky, they showed me the engineering buildings

and where the computer science buildings would be held at. And so ultimately, that shaped the decision for me going to UK. Kelly settled in as a role player at Kentucky. He knew his pro football options would be limited, so he quickly began to think about a career to pursue once his playing days were over. He earned a bachelor's degree in computer science in three and a half years

and was working on his master's degree in business going into his red shirt senior season in 2001. As the season drew to a close, he began to apply for jobs. I applied to a couple of places, IBM Global and IBM Local. We played against Tennessee, my last football game. They ended catching like a 60-yard touchdown pass.

And at the end of the game, they brought me back to the press room to talk. Well, on my way back to the press room, I saw the president of the university. His name was Dr. Lee Todd. And as I'm getting ready to go interview, I tell Dr. Todd, like, Dr. Todd, like, I graduated from this university in three and a half years. And with a great Peter Steinitz by playing football. And I really don't have an offer right now. I don't know what I did wrong.

Like, what do I need to do? Dr. Todd just so happened to have started a company called Databeme, which ended up being purchased by IBM Local a couple years prior. He made a referral for Kelly, who was hired once the season was over. Football wasn't on his mind, but he wouldn't be away from it for long. Tony Franklin, who was the officer coordinator at the University of Kentucky at one point, he called me and told me that he had, it has been named the head. coach of an indoor football team in Lexington, he wanted me to come play.

I told him, I was like, coach, man, like, I can't come play. Like, I just took this full-time job. You know, he said, no, like, I need you. You don't have to miss work. And I need you to get the other guys come play. I guess that was my first job of scouting was helping recruit guys to come play with us with the Lexington Horsemen. In addition to playing for the Horseman and working at IBM,

Kelly also started working as an assistant coach at Lexington Christian Academy. And that is what ultimately caused me to really, really fall in love with every aspect of the game. Like, I wanted to be around the game 24-7. So I would be at work sometimes throwing up plays and thinking about how I was going to get one of our players to ball or what defense we were going to be in. I would go talk to my wife and talk to her about the situation. You know, she was like, you should do this for a living. In 2006, Kelly retired as a player and transitioned into a dual role as a horseman's general manager and receivers coach. in 2007. By then, he'd already been reaching out to NFL teams about potential opportunities

to work in the front office for years. I was sending ladders and resumes out to all 32 teams electronically handwritten, typed up. I would have a garbage bag full of, you know, we got your information on file. But in the midst of sending those ladders out over the years, I started meeting a few, like, integral people to, you know, me getting opportunities. Through his outreach and traveling to college pro days across the country, Kelly connected with several NFL scouts. One of them, Jim Goodman, had worked for the Broncos since the late 90s. Jim Goodman had recruited me to play football for him when he was at Rice University. I was a freshman in high school. And Jim remembered me and my family from that time. And then

once we had sparked a conversation over the years, you know, he was. He almost kind of determined me from the business. I mean, why in the world you want to lead the IT world to come to this? Goodman mentioned Kelly to head coach Mike Shanahan and general manager Ted Sunquist and helped him get an interview for a role as a college scout. He was hired ahead of the 2007 season. The work he put into networking had paid off. From there, Kelly's career ascended rapidly.

By 2010, he was promoted to the Broncos' assistant director of pro personnel. Kelly fostered a strong bond with then Broncos head coach John Fox, who arrived in 2011. And when Fox was fired in 2015 and landed a job as the Bears head coach, he wanted Kelly to come with him as their director of pro scouting. After an interview with then Bears general manager Ryan Pace, he made the transition. Ryan Pace who told me like, hey, you know, this the foster that we're going to build here is going to have a lot of your influence. So I was kind of able to go from the parking lot of consequence to the room where decisions are made. Pretty exciting trajectory for me and my family. Another spot would soon open up for Kelly.

He interviewed for the Raiders GM opening last off season. He didn't get the job, but it did lead to career advancement. The Raiders hired Dave Ziegler, who Kelly had hired as a member of the Broncos personnel department in 2010. Over a decade later, Ziegler returned to favor when he hired Kelly as the Raiders' assistant. and GM. The next step for Kelly is to land a GM role. Historically, it's been difficult for black men to make that final leap. Kelly

is hopeful that's changing with the number of black GMs rising in recent years, but he's also aware of the fact that it still remains to be seen if that progress will be sustained. You know, people like myself, have to be intentional about reaching back in helping those people who look like me. You know, to be

a real decision, I may never sit at the seat as a general manager, but someone who I've come across, who I've been able to help, will set it as a goal. And until we, as a collective, share the mindset that if one wins, we all win and we all support, we won't grow like we should. It took a long time for there to become more black football decision makers like Kelly. That growth is promising

and could be a sign of things to come. But it's one thing for owners to decide that black people are capable of picking good football players. It's another thing entirely for owners to believe black people can run a multi-billion dollar business. That there's a double burden of proof on you as a black executive. You're going to prove you're twice as much as other folks. That's a real thing. We explore

the unique challenges that black business executives in the NFL face after the break. To listen to every episode of Between the Lines Ad Free and bonus full-length interviews with people like Doug Williams, Bumani Jones, Hugh Jackson, and more. Subscribe

to the Athletic Audio Plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. The reality is there is a pervasive disbelief in our society in black intellect. This is Washington Commander's president, Jason Wright. You can run the ball, you can jump, you can sing, you can dance, but intellectual capacity to run a business or shape policy or things like that. Like, no, no, no, there's just, there's a lack of belief there. He's referring to a stereotype that's attached to black people, regardless of which industry they're in.

And I think some of it is subconscious. Some of it is very subconscious. I don't think people are sitting there. Like, oh, I think all black people are dumb. But I do think that mindset is there because I have felt that there's a double burden of proof on you as a black executive. Yeah, to prove you're in, like, twice as much as other folks. And your bona fides and your resume actually has to get you in the door rather than get you the job. And, you know, that's a real thing.

That's a real thing. Most of us are overqualified for the roles in which we take because that's how hiring practices typically work. Something that helped him reached his point was diverse leadership throughout his NFL career as a rotational running back. With the Atlanta Falcons, he played for a team with a black quarterback in another black city with an owner who was committed to social work. With the Cleveland Browns, he played for a black coach in a city with a black mayor.

With the Arizona Cardinals, he played for a black quarterback. for an organization run by Black GM in Rod Graves. And so there were people who were already proximate to an advocate of the topics that I cared about, especially the intersection of race and social impact, where I never felt Hindu. But I also wasn't pushing the needle in the same way that guys have over the last decade.

I wasn't advocating for change at scale. I was looking at micro-impact in neighborhoods in different communities and really focus on economics, which is a little more universally, accepted than some of the other social topics. So, like, I can't say that it's apples to apples, but I can't say that my experience was unique in part because of representative leadership. Through his work in the community, Wright realized a troubling trend.

There were a lot of people who wanted to do good, but most of them weren't good with money. That was driven home while he was working as a labor union leader during the NFL's 2011 lockout. I did my part, you know, to help get us to help the CBA and advocate on half of the players. I did a lot of lobbying stuff and public relations stuff. But the people who got that deal done with people who knew how capital was generated and how it was restricted. They were the money people. They sat down in the room and they hammered that thing out. The rest of us were sort of windowed dress. And I remember thinking, because I want to have the impact on the world I want to

have. And these are the people that got stuff done in a pinch. I got to learn how money is made. Whether I wanted to before or not, I got my monies made. And so, let's say it's like cash rules everything around me. Once Wright retired, he enrolled in the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, where he graduated with a master's degree in operations in finance in 2013. He felt the experience made him more effective, knowledgeable, and capable when it came to generating capital. He ultimately landed at McKenzie, a leading consulting firm, the same year he graduated, but he was still green when it came to navigating the business industry.

It was hard for me because although I had the intellect and the capability, I didn't have some of the superficial trappings that make you more successful right away. In fact, I interviewed a lot of places and I only got an offer at Markeen's Lee. But I got the same feedback at every single farm. And it was some version of this. Think you're really smart. You got great problems solving your horsepower and your brain. You have great leadership jobs.

The only people who have had more substantive we do. experiences or the military veterans. Like what you've experienced as a leader in the NFL is unparalleled. Both of those things are great. But you're really unpolished and you don't speak the business language. There's some coded stuff in there. But there's also some legit stuff in there. Wright figured it out through trial and error.

He had aspirations of working in the NFL again during business school, but he found himself happy where he was. Ironically, that work would reconnect him with the league he'd left behind. He was introduced to Washington owners, Dan and Tanya Snyder through a McKinsey client. Just as someone to help them think through what they were going through and just to be a thought partner, and next thing you know, I had this job.

But for me, it was not something I sought after because I was quite happy. I don't make any more money in this job than I made before. Like, I'm doing this now because it's a confluence of all the different years of my life as a player, as a businessman. But for a franchise that at the time I joined was so representative of so many of the more attractable challenges faced in our society. At the time, Washington still had a racist team name with the racist logo to match. The business operation was failing.

The fan base was lagging. The owner, Dan Snyder, was, and still is, mired in a sexual harassment and workplace misconduct scandal. That's a lot of reasons not to take a job. But the challenge of navigating it lured right in. And while there were questions about whether Washington hired the first black team president in league history for some much need a good PR, Wright came

to value being a trailblazer. I think I downplayed it a lot at the beginning. It's honestly like it ended up sparking a bunch of the like, is he qualified questions? Like, are you a token question? And that shit is just a knowing, honestly. That's in large part why I downplayed it. But the longer I've been in the role,

the more proud of it I am and the more important I think it is to acknowledge it. The reasoning is three-pronged. First off, it honored those who came before him, such as Chicago Bears team president, Kevin Warren, who previously was a chief operating officer of the Minnesota Vikings. Kevin Warren did everything that I do except in title alone. If I don't celebrate the fact that we finally got the title through me, then that's a disservice to him and the folks that came

before. Secondly, Wright provided a positive role model for diverse youth by merely existing. I see a ton of power, especially in a heavily black city like D.C. and Prince George's County and some of the areas of Virginia where we are. The importance of visible role models. It's not like I got to do much, but just show up and be black, but it makes a big difference. Big difference for how young men and women of color see what's capable. We're very, I mean, we're all still primal beings. And we visualize ourselves in places where we see people that look like us.

That's just what our subconscious does. And I know, and I hear the stories of people. their kids, others who now aspired to front office roles, and they didn't even know about before. Didn't even think about being a part of the game just because, like, oh, there's a brother in this role. Lastly, Wright could help chip away at those deep-rooted biases holding back diverse candidates from following in his footsteps. So I want to do it to be the current steward of moving us forward in a positive way and into the next championship era for this team. I feel really strongly about that. But also because if we do that, it starts to break away at that stereotype.

It starts to break away at that stereotype. It's the same way anybody starts to drop their biases. They encounter an example that is contrary to the bias. And if we are successful as a business, we will counter that bias. That was always the reality for Sandra Douglas Morgan, though she didn't always know it. Growing up as a military kid in Las Vegas, she was the daughter of a black man and a Korean woman. But that's all she ever knew. She didn't even consider labeling herself until she was.

You know, I think a lot of children maybe of mixed race have that moment where, for me, it was elementary school. I was changing elementary school, just because the city was growing and I was rezoned to go somewhere else. You know, they ask your race, ask where grades you're going into. And both my parents were like, you're black, you know, and I didn't create the laws that talked about, you know, one drop with black blood makes you're black. But I do identify as black. My mother and I definitely love and support my Korean heritage for my mother. And then, you know, even to some of the looks of, you know, by calling her mother and someone saying, you know, how is your daughter, that type of thing.

And my mother's just, you know, willing to push through and say, just ignore them. Don't listen to them. Some questioned the motives behind Douglas Morgan's hire. The Raiders' previous team president, Dan Ventrell, alleged that he was fired for reporting a franchise to the league for workplace misconduct. And there was a thought that Douglas Morgan was hired as a public relations move. And given she had never worked in the NFL, there was even some doubt about her ability to do the job. I just can't listen to the noise. You really can't because it's what people don't realize

it's most of the time is the reverse, right? If you are the first, you know, that means that I've probably been vetted by more people than, than most because they know it's going to bring more attention. You know, you see some comments about, oh, this was, you know, for some other reason. I've been underrested made in my whole life. So it kind of, it's a shame that someone thinks because you look a certain way that you must not be qualified, not realizing. Then usually at a real price, it's hard to even be given an opportunity. I'm no longer wasting time or energy trying to defend, you know, myself. Douglas Morgan instead focused on making change. The Raiders have a white male owner,

GM, and head coach. But Douglas Morgan has been able to place an emphasis on diversity at the C-suite level. Of the business chiefs, two of them are black. Additionally, she's made plans to hire someone to lead their diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts. I'm not looking at them because of their race, it's because of their skill set. And so if I realize knowing that, you know, people of color weren't given as much of an opportunity, I think that's, it's great if I could kind of help encourage that throughout the organization. It's not just a, oh, we're going to

hire, you know, people of color or, or we're going to focus on hiring women. And, you know, I wish that, you know, people kind of understood that I think that people in that DEI space understand that it's really about just looking at the organization as a whole and seeing what other opportunities they are, you know, throughout to make things better. So, you know, I'm just excited. Within the past year, four teams hired Black Team Presidents. Altogether, there are now five Black Team Presidents in the NFL. There were only two at the time I spoke to right,

but the rapid string of hires that followed support his belief that it doesn't take long to garner change. It doesn't take much if you make a concerted effort. This is a little bit of a hearts and minds campaign. The NFL League officer is trying to take on in earnest, but all of us can do our role. of us who do believe that diversity is not just a moral imperative, but it's actually what's best for the business. And the entire league is going to be more lucrative and successful

if we do have diverse profiles leading and developing these teams. And for Wright, he's not so much concerned about whether the intent is rooted in anything more than further in business success. It's in very dispassionate terms. I don't care if you like black people. You say what you want about black people behind closed doors. You call me whatever name you want behind closed doors. But if you give opportunities to black people to lead with the right authority and they are able to build successful businesses, I'm a rock with you. So let me hear you say, it's no thing. I'm done trying to change people's racist mindsets or biased mindsets. That's a much harder effort. I want people to understand that diversity creates better businesses. The owners have to be willing to drive that effort

forward. For its Pollard Alliance executive director, Rod Graves, believes that there should be a league-wide commitment to do so. I think that that commitment, because of the way the league is structured, it has to be on a team-by-team basis. There are some owners out there who understand that diversity is not only just good for the game, but it enhances business opportunities. I think it also ensures that to the community that we will do the best we can to put our best product forward.

And you can't do that if you're not including. all of your people and giving opportunities to all that are capable. Those opportunities have started to increase for black football and business executives, but that won't last without intentional action. I believe that, number one, that's got to be that commitment at all levels. And then secondly, we have to recognize that the league is going to go from a discussion of social responsibility to really being called upon for social performance. At some point, people are going to ask us, well, what have we done and what have we done lately?

And we'll have to answer for that. And so getting our business in order to prepare for those kind of conversations, which are long overdue, but I do believe that it's definitely going to be an accountability question for us at some point. For the NFL to reach the next stages, plenty of work remains to be done. In the final episode of Between the Lines, we'll explore what the next. that entails. Thank you for listening to Between the Lines. Deshawn Reed is the creator and host of the series. Matt Havia and Mike Smelts are the executive producers. And special thanks to Robert Mays and Michael Beller.