The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Biggest questions heading into the 2022 offseason - QB movement, new owners, free agency speculation & more

Episode Date: February 17, 2022

From what happens with players like Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson, to how the Jags can salvage a disastrous situation for Trevor Lawrence to what teams could be represented by new ownership come the 2022 kickoff, it's an offseason that will be full of breaking news, speculation and headlines worth talking about. Robert Mays and Lindsay Jones each bring their biggest questions heading into the offseason to the air as they turn the page on 2021. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. Today is Thursday, February 17th. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today is my good friend, Lindsay Jones. Lindsay, how are you doing? I'm great, Robert. I am slowly recovering from Super Bowl week and from Super Bowl Sunday.

I don't know how the Rams are still partying. I am in an awe of their fortitude to basically have started drinking at 8 p.m. Sunday and they are still raging. Meanwhile, I feel like I'm so proud of Matthew Stafford. Matthew Stafford is waving around that bottle of tequila. He's my age. So sincerely appreciate his effort here. I, for me, it's food. I got done with the week last week. And I don't want to say how much weight I gained while in Los Angeles eating the way that I did over those seven days. I was getting home and I was supposed to have a Valentine's dinner with my fiance on Monday. And I was like, we let's just do something at home. Like I have to eat a vegetable. I had

This is just completely untenable the way that I've treated myself over the last seven days. So it's been much better over the last 24, 48 hours, but it needed to be because I could not keep going. Yeah. Well, I'll say so we, for reporting purposes, Jordan, Rodriguez, and I went to the Rams after party and stayed until well after 3 a.m. The party shut down. I think the last buses were leaving it for. Aaron Donald was there after we were, including some. And among other people, the VIP.

section was slowly clearing out, but Donald was still there, not in the VIP section, which says a lot about Aaron Donald, I think. Man of the people. He's trying to have a good time. He's trying to share it with everybody. Basque in the glow. I cannot roll like that. And I wasn't even drinking.

And these fellas are hitting it hard and like good for them, right? I mean, enjoy it. They never had to get on a plane. They didn't have to deal with that like, you know, time change, jet lag. They've just been raging. I honestly think that's a downside, though. The flight home from the Super Bowl is such a classic moment after you win it based on conversations I've had with people who've won Super Bowls that depriving them of that, it seems sad. It's the only downside to playing a Super Bowl in your home stadium is not getting the plane ride home.

It did give the postgame party a little bit of a different feel because it was their hometown. So a lot of the guys did come to party. There were a lot of the players, a lot of the offensive linemen were there. Shocking. You know, team employees and stuff. then, you know, I think there were a lot of dudes who were like, I can go to West Hollywood. I could take a bus home to see my children up in Agora Hills or whatever. So it was not kind of like that intimate, the full team in one place because, you know, it was their hometown

event. But the guys that were there were definitely letting loose. And I kind of joked about this on Twitter. But I am, we were show prepping here. And I was completely just thrown off by like basically an hour straight of shirtless Aaron Donald. on my television screen while we've been trying to get ready for this show to talk about the future because I want to say this in the least creepy way possible. Like,

that man is an alien. Yeah, he's a Marvel character. He looks CGIed. I've always said this about him is he looks like the Hulk after the transformation in whatever Avengers movie you want to talk about. It's always been that way. I mean,

when you see him, he looks different than other people. There are two guys in the NFL that when you see them up close in those sort of settings. They just look different than everyone else. And it's Miles Garrett and Aaron Donald. Like one of one physical specimens in a completely different tier, all their own. I mean, they should both, both of those guys and Aaron Donald especially because like,

Aaron Donald is 280 pounds and he has like 18 abs. There's no body fat. It's absolutely zero percent. You shouldn't be that cut up if you are a defensive lineman. It's just uncanny. But like he should literally not put on his jersey until like, after the coin toss and just intimidate the hell out of every other guy on that field and saying, this is coming for you because it is, it is ridiculous.

We're going to get to the biggest questions we have this offseason and just lay it out what we're thinking about here over the next couple months. But there was one of those viral tweets over the last 24 hours, somebody tweeting about how in a certain circumstances they could score 20 points in an NBA game. And I just responded in a blanket way. Literally no. Every single time you think about tweeting something in that, every time it crosses your mind, go for a walk. Do literally anything else besides putting that into the world because you have absolutely no idea what is like to watch these people up close.

And when I said that, Aaron Donald and what he looks like in that image at the parade is exactly what I had in mind. So the timing of it was just perfect. That is the exact image I was picturing when I made that statement because that's how rare these guys. guys are physically. Yeah. And so, I mean, we're going to start talking about the questions. I will say, and we're going to get into kind of the Rams is one of the big ones. These guys did say they're going to run it back. Well, they've been drinking for 72 hours. We've all said things we wish we hadn't said after drinking for 72 hours. I just hope it's being recorded somewhere, and I'm sure it is. All right. Let's get into this. Why don't you kick us off? What is the number one question you have

heading into the 2022 offseason here? All right. Look, I'm going to go really a big wild card here. something that nobody has been talking about at all, but it's the quarterback carousel, right? And I think there's a lot of ways that we can approach this. But it starts with what is Aaron Rogers going to do? What are the Green Bay Packers going to do? And then what are the other dominoes that are going to fall after that? Which other quarterbacks are going to be on the move this offseason? It used to be really rare that we'd have, you know, an offseason where you could have these top tier

quarterbacks on the move. But we're heading into a third offseason in a row, you know, going back to the the 2020 off season when we saw Tom Brady and then Philip Rivers, you know, those guys moving. I mean, that just, that sort of stuff didn't really happen. And now it's kind of becoming commonplace. And we've got a lot of really big names that could potentially be on the move this year. Obviously, none of them bigger than Aaron Rogers. Obviously.

I mean, he's the prize of this. And the spin has started, right? I want to say it was right before the Super Bowl. Adam Schaeffield. It was one of those Sunday splashes. Sunday news. one of those Sunday tweets from Adam Schaefter saying that the Packers, the relationship is better than it's been in a long time and they've done everything they can to keep him. My first guess about this, the first place my mind is going as it relates to Aaron Rogers' future and how it will affect the quarterback carousel is that he will stay.

If you look at the board and the chess board and how it sits right now, there is no better chance for him to continue doing this than there is in Green Bay. even if there are some real questions about the cap there and some of the players and how many moves they can make. I thought that Nick Cordy from over the cap had laid this out in the correct way last week. They have a resource over and over in the cap just lets you know how much flexibility teams really have with some of the restructures they can have. Because we know the cap is fungible, but how fungible is it? And with the Packers, even with all the simple restructures they can do, they're still going to have some real questions about who they can retain, what Devante Adams looks like on the franchise tag, all that stuff. So that question is real for Green Bay, but even if we consider that, they're still better equipped to give him a chance to make a run, especially when you consider some of the shakeups at the top of the NFC, which we'll get to.

So it just my gut feeling is that he'll be back, even at the press conference or on the stage at the NFL honors when he was thanking Matt LaFleur, him even saying, thanks for making it easy on me. That's true. They do make it easy on him. It is a great place for him to be. He's well equipped to succeed there. He's won two MVPs in a row. So it just feels like he's probably going to be back. But even if he's back, there are a couple other big-name guys that could potentially be on the move here.

Yeah. And my sense with Aaron Rogers, too, is that Green Bay was going to be the best place for him. And that the Sunday splash, that Schefter report, was that this is the Packers saying, we're doing all we can. Yes. And if this doesn't work, we need to let it be known that we tried to keep him. that this divorce was not our fault. He thanked Brian Guncoutts in his speech. Right.

So the one thing that I always come back to when any discussions about Aaron Rogers, and this isn't just new for post of 2021 or, you know, starting in the middle of the 2021 season, but it's especially clear after what we've learned over the last few months about Aaron Rogers is that we cannot ascribe, you know, typical football norms to whatever Aaron Rogers is doing. We cannot get in his head, nor do I want to. we shouldn't just assume that we know what he's thinking that he's going to follow. Like this is, you know, this is the best scheme for me or this is a place that, you know, the fans love me or whatever it is, the reasons that maybe some guys would want to stay

because we know that he is going to do his own research and make his own decision. And now apparently he doesn't have a fiancé who is going to be influencing said decisions. That was the other bit of news that came out Wednesday that he and Shillian Woodley have broken up, which that relationship never had a shot, right? that was just never, these two kids, it just was, was never going to work. 38-year-old Aaron Rogers. So there's a, there's a lot of things that are kind of at play here. I know in Denver where I live, it's very, you know, they consume every little nugget of

Aaron Rogers news. Like, it's an edible. They, they freaking love that shit here. And I hate to be the Debbie Downer, but I just feel like it's probably, it's probably not going to happen for the phone goes. Probably be back in Greenback. So if he is, then what are the other guys that potentially could be on the move? I think a Russell Wilson trade is far more viable than an Aaron Rogers trade.

I mean, you think about all the turnover there and what that has looked like. It seems like that's a potential move. And the teams that are looking to make that big splash is Russell Wilson, the guy that you can go after. If you're the Philadelphia Eagles, you have all of that draft capital and you think this is our chance to go get a top-tier quarterback. We have some pretty good talent elsewhere. where we were a playoff team. We're kind of on the doorstep of being relevant in the NFC, especially with the power void that might exist with some of these teams falling off.

Is this our opportunity? I think that's real. And if you're going to take a swing and chase one of these guys, it does feel like Russell Wilson is the quarterback that maybe could be had this offseason. And then there's the guys that we know could be had, right? And the top of that group is Jimmy Garapolo. Consolation Prize, Jimmy Garapolo. Yeah, which, you know,

That's unfortunate for Jimmy Garoppolo, right, is to be kind of the guy that these teams are going to chase after if Rogers and Wilson ultimately are not put on the trade market or they choose to stay and they say they're happy where they're at. But we can feel pretty confident that the Niners are going to go ahead and move on from Jimmy Garopolo. He's a guy that you can win with. You might need a lot more help to actually win a Super Bowl, but he's a guy you can get to the playoffs with. You can win division titles with if the rest of your team is built well. So for a lot of places, whether you're, that's Washington, Denver, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Tampa Bay. Could he follow Tom Brady in Tampa Bay? I mean, there's a lot of places that I think Jimmy Garoppolo would be an upgrade to their 2021 quarterback or it's going to fill a void for a team that very much clearly needs one that does not have a starting quarterback or a starting caliber quarterback under contract like the Steelers or the Saints are right now.

So my big question coming off of the big fish in the quarterback market is which other teams will be in on the quarterback race that maybe we're not thinking about right now. It might surprise us. Some of the teams you mentioned and then the Colts, do the Colts try to get in here and are they willing to move on from Carson Wentz? Based on everything that was said, kind of in those postseason press conferences, doesn't seem like they're too fired up about Carson Wentz. And my feel on that situation was the moment that Carson Wentz lost the undying support of Frank. Frank Reich in that building, his future there was probably going to be in question. And it really does feel like we've reached that moment. And you watch some of these teams, some of these offenses and what it looks like down the

stretch, I feel like the Colts have realized that they can't tie themselves to a quarterback like Carson Wentz. They can't have a guy that they're worried about as all these other teams have quarterbacks that carry them. So are the Colts going to be involved here? What happens with the Vikings? They've said all the right things when it comes to Kirk Cousins and Kevin O'Connell through various leaked reports has laid out a plan for how to help Kirk Cousins succeed in Minnesota.

Who the hell knows of all that's true? And there's tons of teams like that. What is the mystery team going to be? Because every single year there's a mystery team. We didn't necessarily think that the Rams were going to be the team that landed Matthew Stafford. Who's going to be the team that surprises us? Is there a Matthew Stafford available? Maybe not. Because Derek Carr, if you believe everything coming out of Las Vegas, the Raiders are ready to commit to Derek car, which I don't think is the worst thing in the world when you think about the alternative. So where do the big guys land? What is the trickle-down effect from where those big guys land? And who is going to be in on this that we don't think? Which quarterbacks are going to be

potentially on the move and which teams could be looking for new quarterbacks? It feels like Ryan Tannahill is probably going to stay in Tennessee when you look at the financial implications of that. So how big that pool is, both in terms of available guys and in terms of teams that want to make a move? I think those are the two biggest questions as we creep toward free agency here. Yeah, I mean, I think kind of the defining storyline of this is for the rest of the off season is that there are going to be far more teams that are looking for a new quarterback or an upgrade at quarterback than there are quality quarterbacks available. So it's going to be this ridiculous game of musical chairs where most of the guys or most of the teams are going

to be left wanting. They're not going to end up happy in this situation. I will say, the one other kind of wild card situation that's kind of blown up over the last week or so, and it'll be really, really interesting to hear what's going on. When we get to the combine in two weeks, where you start getting, you know, all the gossip, all the buzz is... I can't believe it's in 12 days that I leave for Indianapolis. It's bonkers, right? Yeah, we will be there. Every year we when people say, what are you going to do with your off season? And we always say, like, what offseason? But they're legitimately is... Typically, you have a two-week break. Now there's a week long break. I will not, I will be, I'll take next week off and then the combine will happen.

Oh yeah, I mean, I had to like break it to my child that I'm about to leave for another like five or six day trip. She was not amused. But I will say that, you know, I'm very interested to get, you know, what are they talking about in the bars about Arizona and Kyler Murray and Cliff Kingsbury? And what is going on with that situation? How much of that is real? How much of this is, you know, contractual stuff. And how much of it is a significant concern about the direction that that organization is going specific to their quarterback. I don't think it's a direct reaction to the way that the season ended.

I think this is something that's been bubbling for a little while. I think it's part of the reason that they felt compelled to make the moves they did this offseason when they went out to get a Rodney Hudson and an AJ Green and a JJ Watt, and they needed some stabilizing veteran forces on that team because they thought there was kind of a void of leadership there with the guys that they already had. So I don't think this is a new development. A couple other guys, I think, worth mentioning as part of this conversation, as that musical chairs happens and as the music stops,

there's a good chance that guys like James Winston, Marcus Mariotta, those types of guys are going to be sitting in some of those chairs. Those are not exciting options. That's the reality of how this is going to work. I'm sorry to break it to some of the teams looking for quarterbacks, but that's how this happens. If you couple that with a guy in the first round that maybe isn't ready to start, we're going to have some weird solutions to the quarterback problem this spring

because we're going to need to have some weird solutions. And obviously the last thing to mention here, there's already been some reports about which teams he might be interested in it over the last couple of days. What happens with Deshaun Watson? It's, you know, don't love speculating on some of those things, but it's going to be a story over the next month or so. So this is, as we discussed multiple times, you know, dating back several months on the show, it's not an easy question to answer because you can't separate the football side from the legal issues that he's facing. And as much as somebody like Lovey Smith, who I believe we met with a report. reporters fairly recently in Houston after taking that job said he was hoping to have some, you know, just resolution quickly, an answer to what was going to happen there.

You just can't, we've seen they can't rush this stuff, right? I mean, right now these are civil suits. So it's taking a very long time. There's been a criminal investigation that is yet to be resolved one way or another until there is some sort of definitive statement from law enforcement about whether or not there will be criminal charges. That's delaying the NFL's decision. The NFL has not let teams know whether or not he'll be available to play in in 2022. And it's hard to imagine any team doing what the Texans did last season and just paying him to be inactive all season. So there's

a lot of questions there that still have to be answered. So anytime you see these reports of Deshaun Watson is considering where he wants to play in 2022, those sorts of things, I understand those are football-only discussions, but you can't just consider this in a football-only context. The last name, I think, worth mentioning is Matt Ryan. Again, similar to the Ryan-Tanel situation. It's financial complications that might be involved with that move. $40.5 million in dead money. So that's bonuses.

I think that the number would probably be smaller if they ended up trading him. But just one other quarterback that I'm sure will be in the news here over the next month or so as we figure all of this out. All right, Lindsay, what's your next one? All right. So I'm going to stick with quarterbacks here for just a little bit. But I want to see this offseason. I'm so closely watching what is the plan going to be for the second year quarterbacks? Because largely outside of Mack Jones, this was a really, really bad year for this crop of rookie quarterbacks. And all of them are going to be going through major changes this off season. So look, it's months and months away from them actually playing in any games. But these next few months are critical. for all of these guys. New head coaches for Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence in Chicago and Jacksonville, a new offensive coordinator and play caller for Mack Jones in New England. And, you know, we assume a starting job for Trey Lance in San Francisco.

And, you know, we could even throw on Davis Mills in there, right, who, you know, started as many games or more than just about any of these guys. And, you know, he's going to have a new head coach in Houston. So basically Zach Wilson is like the only guy who isn't going through like a massive change in like scheme or coaching or anything like that. Obviously, they need to have a better plan in place for him to upgrade the talent around him in New York. But for these other guys that are going through these massive changes just in terms of, you know, what sort of schemes are going to be built for them? How, what is the plan for these new head coaches and offensive coordinators

in Chicago and Jacksonville to truly maximize these players' skill set? You know, I, you know, I think the Doug Peterson hire in Jacksonville was maybe one of the least talked about. moves of this hiring cycle. Maybe that's because there were so many different jobs out there. Maybe it's because he just kind of feels like a safe hire. Like, oh, look, there's actually an adult leading the Jaguars organization for some time. But I think that's important, though. It absolutely is.

But there was just nothing like sexy necessarily about it. And there had been so much kind of drama. I would love for it to not be sexy. Like, don't be sexy. Have an adult in the room. That's fine. Yeah. So, but you know, obviously he has a pretty long history.

of working with quarterback. So I'm cautiously optimistic that Doug Peterson will be able to undo whatever damage was done, if there was any damage done to Trevor Lawrence in his rookie year in a year that, you know, the Jags didn't do anything to help him, basically the entire time. I mean, that roster was terrible. They put him through a quarterback competition through the entire preseason. They never just made him kind of the leader of that team until it was much too late. He had to be the one answering questions about Urban Meyer.

He had to be the adult in the room, you know, 22-year-old Trevor Lawrence when when Urban Meyer wasn't. So I just really want to see what this plan is. And hopefully they'll be more normal OTAs where we can actually, you know, watch these teams practice in April and May and start to get a sense of, you know, how are they empowering these young quarterbacks? What are the players that putting around him? And in what ways can their schemes help these guys succeed better than they did in year one? The bright spot and the thing that you can look forward to if you were the Jags or the Jets is that these are the teams with the most resources in the league. The Jags have a ton of cap space again. They're picking number one in the draft.

The Jets obviously have a ton of draft capital. And that makes sense. You're one of the worst teams in the league. You were picking at the top of the draft last year. Now you're back at the top of the draft again. You're a bad team. You don't have much talent and you have avenues through which to add talent. And how are they going to do it?

With the Jaguars, there's a lot of different ways they can go. They have a couple free agents along the offensive line. They could spend there. They could use the top pick in the draft on a left tackle. A lot of guys in the running to potentially be that guy if they want to build around Trevor Lawrence. They have money to go chase some receiving talent if they want to. I mean, that team needs a total upgrade and total overhaul when it comes to the supporting cast for Trevor Lawrence beyond even the coaching staff. What do the Jets do?

Do the Jets go get another receiving weapon? Do they continue to upgrade the offensive line? What does their plan look like with those resources to build around those guys? for a team like Chicago, it's not nearly as encouraging. I mean, this is a team that traded away their first round pick to go get Justin Fields. They don't have a ton of salary cap space. Some more than they've had over the last couple years. But, I mean, this is still a relatively expensive team.

Obviously, they'll move on from Nick Foles, you know, a couple other guys that could be logical cuts. But even that, you know, you're looking at $30, $40 million in space. It's not the most. It doesn't compare, really, to these other teams that are building around their young quarterback. And with San Francisco, you have a team that was a couple of plays away from going to the Super Bowl that Trey Lance is stepping into. And with New England, some financial flexibility, you know, I think they need a number one receiver. They know that. What's it going to look like on the coaching staff side?

So I think a lot of different versions of what these plans could look like in these places based on the resources that are available. So speaking of how some of these teams are going to spend their resources. My next question is, how are these, let's call them up-and-coming teams in the AFC going to surround their young quarterback. because we've heard so much and talked so much over the last month or so about the quarterbacks in the AFC. Look at all these young quarterbacks in the AFC. Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert and Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes. I want to know what those other teams, those non-chiefs teams,

who we've already seen them do it, how are these other teams going to plan to get over the hump? Different amount of resources when you look at all these situations. The bills obviously have less because they have a pretty ready-made content. Pending roster. They can bring back most of that team. Not a lot of pending free agents for Buffalo when it comes to their core pieces, which I think is a good thing. They'll have similar to last off season where it's this is our group.

This is the group that we've committed to. How do we kind of finish this thing off? One, two tweaks. They've done a very good job of that so far. I think they have a chance to continue to do that. The Ravens are in this weird spot. And Wink Martindale moves on. What is the defense going to look like?

Obviously, they bring back Mike McDonald who's a long time assistant there. I assume the plan will be very similar, but there are some bits of transition there. What is the next phase of their offense look like? Do they go out and get some help along the offensive line when they clearly need it? Ronnie Stanley is going to be back, but I think they could still use a couple more pieces up there. What do the Chargers do? The Chargers need to retool that defense. They have a lot of resources to do it.

They have a ton of cap space. I think they, with another good offseason, could be a real true contender in the AFC, but they have to make those moves. And when you look at Cincinnati, we already know what they need to do. Where's the help along the offensive line come from? And they have a lot of space to do it. They again have resources to wield, which when you have a rookie quarterback, two excellent receivers on rookie contracts, you can start to do this stuff. So these teams have some flexibility, especially when you look at the Chargers and the Bengals.

What do they do? What are the moves that they make to kind of get them right there with the Bills and the Chiefs as the most complete rosters in the AFC in the league? the Bengals obviously went to the Super Bowl, but when you stack up the 53 of them, then the Chiefs and the Bills, you have two very different situations. I think we saw that play out over the course of the playoffs. Yeah, I think those last two teams that you mentioned, the Chargers and the Bengals are the two that I'm like most interested to see exactly what they're going to do. Because I was a little worried when Zach Taylor held his kind of end of the year press conference

on Wednesday morning. and he did get asked a lot of questions about the protection and the offensive line. And he said something like the line was good enough to get us to the Super Bowl. And that's concerning. He got you there, but at what cost? They're lucky that Joe Burrow only suffered kind of an MCL injury, that he was able to hobble through the rest of that game and that he did not get seriously injured during that run. Your quarterback was hit and sacked more times than any quarterback in a postseason run ever.

It is not sustainable. And you can make those glib comments about, like we survived it. And yes, Joe Burrow has some sort of like malfunction in his brain that he gets better and thrives off of these sorts of hits. And he like seems to love those sort of situations. But it's going to cost them at some point. So I want to see what they do there. You know, I think there's some areas on the defense that they can continue to shore up. You know, I think their cornerback situation. What are you going to do with Jesse Bates? You know, there's some places there. But, you know, we've seen them have success now when they have broken

from their mold and decided to, you know, be active in free agency. Sometimes that's the big contract like we've talked about with Trey Hendrickson. It's going and getting a guy that maybe you have to overpay a little bit for because it's free agency and that's what you do. Or, you know, maybe it's making some smart depth signings like they did to, you know, with Chiodobiae-A-Wosier and the Von Bell type of deals. They're going to have to find success in those ways in addition to continuing to hit with their first rounders.

The Chargers, meanwhile, like the Sunday was a rough day if you're the Chargers. right if you're the Chargers fans because you know you saw the other quarterback from that draft you got to see Joe Burrow kind of take his team a team that didn't have necessarily a Super Bowl roster get them to the Super Bowl once they got into the playoffs and you know it's now their crosstown rival the guy that the team that they share a stadium with are now the Super Bowl champs where people like to make fun of the Rams fan base and how few fans were at the at the parade and stuff today well Chargers really need to make inroads in that market that isn't you know the best football market to begin with um So they need to have a huge offseason. And for me, I think it starts with that defensive line and finding another complimentary pass rusher to play opposite of Joey Boas. Because that was a huge, a huge hole for them. And then second to that is a defensive tackle. They have to fix their run defense. So for me, it's all about their front seven right now.

So they have star power, each of them. It's about, as I like to say, it's like the connective tissue of the roster. Can you go get a Sebastian Joseph Day if you're the Chargers? If you're the Bengals, can you go sign? I don't know, throw out X interior offensive linemen in free agency. Austin Corbett. You know, somebody like that. Not the sexiest name in the world, but just remake those units with two to three upgrades

and continue to build in those quieter ways. It doesn't have to be the best player on the market at that position, but I think that you have to look at it and say, how can we fill three or four holes with mid-tier free agent deals? not dissimilar to the way that those teams rebuilt, in the Chargers case, their offensive line, and in the Bengals case, they're secondary, really over the course of an offseason or two. This is possible. So I think that's how I would be thinking about this is it's not about shopping at the top of the market.

It's about how can we wield that financial flexibility we have to really remake a unit or two in a single offseason? Because when you have those resources, it's absolutely possible. All right. Let's get to our next one here. What's your next one, Lindsay? All right. So I'm going to Debbie Downer here a little bit. I'm going to move away from the exciting football stuff here because there's a lot of business stuff that's going to be going on right now. This is the time of year where the NFL and the teams are going to be kind of doing a reexamination of the way that the league works. And one of the most important things that is going to happen this off season is a potential overhaul to the Rooney rule and the diversity hiring process that they have. One of the most important things that came out of Roger Goodell's press conference last week, which if you watched it, it was a lot of word salad. It was talking for 45 to 50 minutes without really saying anything.

The important thing that was said was that he opened the door to potentially removing the Rooney Rule, that that's something that could be on the table this offseason. As ownership, the League's Diversity Committee, the Fritz Pollard Alliance, they all work to figure out a way to do this differently. So it's going to be huge. They're going to be doing like a complete audit of the entire process. They're going to be bringing in some independent organizations who are going to review everything that they do. Maybe there's going to be some significant policy changes that are coming. You know, a couple of years ago, they instituted the incentives for teams to develop minority candidates and then let them go. So those teams receive draft compensation.

if a minority coach or front office executive leaves for a GM or a head coaching job. I want to see they, I'm curious to see if they bring back the incentives now for the teams who hire these coaches. It always feels like you don't want to have to pay somebody to do the right thing, but what they've been doing hasn't been working yet. So we might see some more unorthodox decisions that they make here in ways that they can try to inspire change. although I'm stealing that really inspire change is some bad connotations these days, I think. But in order to actually come up with different outcomes, because the Rooney Rule, the way that it's in place right now, it's no longer working, right? I mean, you can kind of keep expanding it, keep tweaking it.

But when the results, year after year after year aren't any different, they need to really break this thing down. So as we move into the Combine, there's going to be a lot of league meetings happening that week in Indianapolis. There's going to be a set of owners meetings in March. This is going to be front and center, one of the most important topics that's going to be happening at all of those meetings. And, you know, I think we all just want to see what is the plan? What are, what is the league actually going to do to show that it cares about this issue and that it's committed to making actual sustainable change? We, we had a long conversation about this, you and I on the day that the Brian Flores lawsuit came down. I think there's some changes that you see kind of on the horizon with more black coaches getting opportunities on the offensive side of the ball, getting opportunities to coach quarterbacks, potentially getting hired as offensive coordinators.

It doesn't happen. It hasn't happened fast enough. And I think it's part of the reason that we're in this position. You know, if you think about just the, what does it look like? What do the coaches look like that were hired? It's mostly offensive coaches and mostly offensive coaches that have worked with players at that position and are play callers, et cetera. in some cases like Kevin O'Connell are not play callers, but are still offensive coordinators. It's mostly white coaches.

I mean, there are so many different things that I feel like have to be addressed. And even the black coaches that got opportunities in this cycle, Levy Smith is not the type of black head coach that we figure should be getting an opportunity, right? That's such a strange situation there where he comes to the candidate very late. He didn't get his first interview there until February 6th. Exactly. Think about how many up-and-coming black coaches there are in the league. You think about the, not even, Rahim Morris is even up-and-coming coach, but at this point, shouldn't Rahim Morris be like the shortest list?

Yeah, or we can talk about if we're talking about up-and-coming coaches. We can point to the exact same staff, Thomas Brown, who is Sean McVeigh's assistant head coach running back running game coordinator. Will he be considered for the now vacant offensive coordinator job? Or is Sean McVeigh going to kind of hire from outside? he's the kind of guy who would typically be slotted right into that position. Will he get those sort of, that sort of consideration that. And it sounds like he could be in consideration for the Vikings offensive coordinator job.

Yes, absolutely. Jordan, Jordan Rodriguez has reported that. So it looks like he should be in line for some sort of a promotion here that he's been working towards. But that's exactly what we're talking about, the type of guys who have been on one career track and can they make that that jump that previously maybe would have been, there would have been some sort of roadblock there.

Pep Hamilton getting the offensive coordinator job in Houston. That's another example of these changes are not big enough, but slow steps forward. That's important. When you look at the work that he's done over the last two years, what he did with Justin Herbert as a quarterback's coach, what he did with Davis Mills as a quarterback's coach, he deserved a chance to be an offensive coordinator somewhere after that body of work was put on display. So he's a name we mentioned during that Brian Flores conversation. So you hope that things like that and choices like,

that help to accelerate the opportunities for some of these guys, but it's clearly not happening fast enough. So I totally agree. That's going to be an ongoing conversation. And as we're talking, I mean, along with Brian Flores, there is pending litigation. The NFL has hired Loretta Lynn, former attorney general, to serve as its attorney to defend them for their role in this lawsuit. So there's going to be a lot of legal stuff that's going on. And as of right now, nobody else has joined that class action suit yet. So right now it still remains just Brian Flores against the NFL and a variety of of these teams. As we move further into the offseason, that's another thing that I'm going to be watching, is if there are any other current or former NFL coaches or executives who decide that they would like

to join the suit along with Brian Flores. My next one here, what will these new regimes in some of these places mean for the direction of the franchises? How much turnover will we see? First team to mention here, outside of there and Roger stuff. What do the Broncos do? Now that George Payton is there in his second year, and it always kind of felt like Vic Fangio was going to be a lame duck and that Peyton was going to try to retool this team in his own image when he got the chance with the coach, with the roster construction,

what do the Broncos do? They have so much flexibility. They have a ton of cap space. They've committed to some of these guys, but they could go in a variety of different directions. What do the Raiders do? With Dave Ziegler and Josh McDaniels, I mean, obviously, look at all of the Patriots coaches they've hired.

to be on that offensive staff, what does the roster makeup look like? Do they commit to Derek Carr? How else do they want to retool this thing? Think about what the Raiders defense looked like last year. It was all Gus Bradley retreads from various places. It just feels like there can be so much turnover there based on how they want to remake the roster in this Patriots-like image. What do the Bears do? With Ryan Poles now, do they move on from some of those expensive defensive pieces? do they commit to kind of rebuilding that offensive line? What do the Vikings do? You have this regime in Minnesota that had been there for close to 15 years

with Rick Spielman and then Mike Zimmer being there for almost a decade and that version of the Vikings that we'd come to understand with that group of defensive players and that core and they're just kind of making small tweaks to it over the last three to four seasons to get the most out of it. Do they blow that up? Do they start over again and try to remake that team? there are just so many different pathways all of these different organizations could follow.

And I think that it's one of the things to watch here over the next three to four months. Well, I think that's what makes this time of year so fun, right? It's that so many teams are having this fresh start. You can really get excited about all of these new possibilities. You know, I can speak specifically to the Broncos and what's going on here in Denver where I think all of those questions are getting asked about like what is a George Payton team. going to look like they now have Nathaniel Hackett as their head coach. But ultimately, none of it really matters until they know who their quarterback is. And that's why it loops all the way back to what we were talking about at the beginning. And how many people, I think there's

people within the franchise, but certainly in this city and in this entire region that are pinning everything on Aaron Rogers. And, you know, no matter, you know, how much positive vibes there are from Nathaniel Hackett's, you know, intro press conference and kind of some excitement about the staff that he's building, which I don't know how exciting. I mean, so the other, you know, Agero Evereaux is now officially going to be the Broncos defensive coordinator after he finished up kind of his run with the Rams where he was, where he coached their secondary. I like some of those hires, but until they have a quarterback in place, at least some of

these other franchises that are kind of starting over with some new regimes, you don't have as big of the quarterback questions. But that's just such a massive, it's such a massive question here until we know what George Payton's plan is at quarterback and what he's actually going to be able to achieve there, it's going to remain a massive question. You look at some of these other situations. What are the Giants going to do? I mean, the Giants have the super expensive roster with all these guys they've committed to.

There's already been some rumblings that they could move on from people like James Bradbury. What do Joe Shane and Brian Daibald do there? What are the team building kind of pivot choices that they end up making? What the hell do the dolphins do? I mean, the dolphins go from having Brian Flores. as their head coach and this very specific version of who they were, especially on defense. And I'm sure they want to keep a lot of that DNA because it was successful. But now you transition from this very strange kind of outlier offensive system with two as

your quarterback to now you're going to run like a Mike McDaniel based offensive system that's in the Shanahan mold. What does that look like? I mean, there's so many questions as it relates to those two teams. The Saints. what do the Saints do? I mean, I think everyone kind of just assumed that it would be status quo there.

Dennis Allen will get that job and they probably keep Pete Carmichael as their offensive coordinator and try to keep as much of this the same as they could. But now they're interviewing people for their offensive coordinator job. Does their offense look different? Who's going to play quarterback there? There are so many new coaches and new people in power here at some of these teams

that it just feels like so much change is potentially on the horizon. And there's really no way for us to know. until we get into this. Until we get into early March and guys start getting cut and we see a couple of trades and the free agent dollar start getting thrown around. Anything to me feels possible with some of these teams and I think it's fascinating. All right. What's your last one here, Lindsay?

All right. I'm going to bring in one more non on the field football related stuff because there's going to be one team sold this off season. It's a Denver Broncos who I was just talking about there officially up for sale with the expected purchase price is going to be over $4 billion. There are already potential buyers emerging investment groups that are being put together. At least one potential black owner who has stepped forward and said, Byron Allen, who said he is interested.

Roger Goodell last week said that there are multiple minority ownership candidates who are in this. But basically, this is going to be an auction. And $4 billion. So I'm really curious, one, who is going to end up buying? the Broncos and exactly what this timetable is. They believe that they'll have a new owner in place before the start of next season. This is certainly something that they would, you know, they don't want to rush it, but as much as they would like to, you know, fast track it, not have this something that is kind of

hanging over the franchise or this league for, you know, a duration of months. So what is it going to be, what is it going to mean to have a new owner in the NFL who is obviously going to be very, very wealthy? Because the amount of money it takes to become the principal owner of a team that's going to be worth, more than $4 billion is a very, very small pool. But so that's one team that is going to be for sale and changing hands within the next several months. But there's a lot of other ownership news that's going on that is going to dominate the NFL

offseason news cycle. First is the investigation into the tanking allegations that were included in the Brian Flores lawsuit. This is important as the rest of Flores' allegations are going to be to potentially forcing change in the hiring practices, the allegations that Stephen Ross offered financial incentives to tank games, that's an integrity of the game issue. And that's the type of thing that if there is evidence in this, that could potentially have massive ramifications for Ross as an owner. Could he be forced to sell? Could he be punished by the league? Could his other owners hold him accountable and force a sale? I mean, this is potentially has massive implications. And would this invest in?

find other instances of that. Is this a one-off or could this type of thing happen elsewhere? I mean, you saw the report from the NFL, like Ian Rapport was reporting about it last week. The fact that it was in the NFL's media arm, I think is worth thinking about. And my understanding after reading that is that Stephen Ross's defense here is like LOLJK, which is doesn't seem like he'll stand up to a real investigation. Yeah, good luck. well, you know, the NFL, as I'm going to mention here in a second, they go to great lengths to

protect their owners. But if this is kind of already building in this direction, it could end up being very, very bad news for Stephen Ross. The other big ownership drama, obviously, is in Washington where there are new sexual harassment allegations against Daniel Snyder. Those came out in the congressional hearing about two weeks ago. The NFL is investigating those independently. They're not allowing Washington to investigate itself, or at least, initiate the investigation into itself like it did, I guess now a year and a half ago. And there's also the open congressional inquiry where the NFL and Washington has been reluctant to turn over a lot of the information that Congress has been asking for.

Up to this point, Daniel Snyder has very much been protected by his fellow owners and by the NFL, as much as, you know, Goodell several months ago said that not releasing a written report was to protect the victims and the women who came forward alleging sexual harassment and workplace misconduct. It's pretty clear by now who is being protected. It was not those women. So it's going to be very important to watch this new investigation. And if this new allegation that is specifically made against Dan Snyder could change that.

And if there is evidence that he committed sexual harassment and workplace, workplace conduct violations, if his fellow owners could try to hold him accountable or if Roger Goodell would punish him more severely than he did last year, which was basically like just stop being around the team on the day-to-day basis, which was the ultimate kind of slap on the wrist, right? I mean, he still was out there for all of their ceremonial stuff. He was wearing his letter jacket for the commander's uniform reveal and all that sort of stuff. So clearly he's still been around. Clearly he still has primary ownership of his team. But the fallout here, I think, is far from over. A lot to think about there and just a lot to observe and kind of keep up with. I mean, there's so many different ways all of this could go. It's kind of crazy to think that multiple teams could change hands over the next few months over the next year or so. But it really does seem like that. And look, the NFL probably could use some, you know, new blood and new ownership.

And, you know, so many of these issues that we come back to, especially as it relates to the hiring process, is the fact that it's, you know, these same people. the same guys who have owned the teams for a really long time. There are no black owners. There are a couple female owners who have kind of inherited the team as part of their family business. The NFL could use some new blood, I think. And I asked this question of Roger Goodell last week, got a roundabout non-answer. But obviously Goodell and his team want it to be known that there are potential minority buyers for the Broncos. there are black men who are going to be part of the bidding process. But it is going to be an auction.

So I asked what sort of kind of checks and balances, what sort of system is going to be in place that, you know, when a new owner is coming in, that you know kind of where they stand on these issues about diversity hiring and all sorts of, you know, new policies at the NFL's putting in place and what it means to be a successful owner in modern sports. And it's not just about being kind of an oil tycoon, right, or being the richest man in their city. So they don't really have answers for those type of questions yet, other than that they're saying they're hopeful that they'll, you know, get a good new owner in. But owners can dictate so much. And it's not just, you know, how much money they're willing to spend, but its entire culture. It's economic, you know, it's economic for

the city. It's stuff about stadiums. So they need to make sure that certainly for the Broncos, who we know are for sale, and then if potentially other teams could end up following them, that they get the right people in those roles that are going to lead these franchises in the right direction and not be part of holding the NFL back from making the progress that it needs to make. And there's always uncertainty when it comes to ownership changes, right? When the Panthers got sold, there's this idea that David Tepper would bring in this new modern way of doing things and that it was going to be fresh blood and look at how

much of a mess the Panthers have been over the last couple years. We talk about teams that might be in the quarterback carousel conversation. They're one of those teams that could be ready to take a big swing at quarterback reportedly after what they did last offseason with Sam Darnold. I mean, it's just ownership can dictate so much about a franchise's timeline, the way they're going to approach all of these things. And I think the Panthers have been a pretty good example of that recently. All right.

My last one here, what will the power vacuum look like in the NFC? Because I think that's a huge one. here. If you look at the way the NFC was at the end of this season, look at the Rams who just won the Super Bowl. Rumblings about their head coach and one of the greatest defense players of all time who should have been the Super Bowl MVP, potentially retiring after this year. They can drunkenly say all they want that they're running it back, but until we have these guys committing to it sometime this summer, I think it's worth taking into account. What are the Packers going to look like? Is Aaron Rogers going to be there? If Aaron Rogers is there,

what players of that core can they retain. Tom Brady retired, at least for the time being. What do the bucks look like? Do they take a swing at quarterback? They have a ton of guys about to hit free agency with Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen, a lot of pieces that they would have to retain, and they don't have a ton of financial flexibility. So all of those teams, and if they step out of it, who steps into it?

The Cowboys have a lot of financial decisions to make. there are rumblings that they can move on from DeMarcus Lawrence this offseason. I was having a conversation with the coach recently about potential free agent wide receivers and he just dropped Amari Cooper's name into the group of guys that could be available this spring because of some of the decisions that the Cowboys are going to have to face.

So what does that look like? All that shifting in the NFC, I mean, if you're a team like the Niners and you're pretty much going to stand pat outside of putting Trey Lansing at quarterback, do you benefit here? You know, those teams that are just sitting there without a lot of guys walking away in free agency, are they going to be able to step into that void because of all the potential changes

that could happen with the teams at the top? Because it seems like that's absolutely a possibility this offseason. You know, the Rams, if those guys come back, they could be just fine. They're up against the cap, but they have some restructures they could do to create space. They're set up to retain a lot of that core because they knew this was going to happen. But if some guys walk away, if Andrew Whitworth retires, there are a lot of questions facing those teams. So the shakeup at the top of the NFC, I feel like is something absolutely worth monitoring here. Yeah.

I mean, we get to this point, right? It's one of the things that you have to do every week after the Super Bowl is, you know, because every team says, oh, let's run it back, right? Let's do this again. You know, it was huge with the Chiefs a couple of years ago. And they discovered how difficult it was. The Bucks literally did everything possible to bring back their entire Super Bowl. their so-called super team, right? Like Aaron Donald used the word super team today. That's what the the bucks did. And it's clearly it's not that easy. Yeah, we'll let, we'll let those guys sober up,

let them get a nap, let them talk to their families and see if they're, if they're going to come back. You know, the way they're all talking today, it reminds me exactly of the line that Von Miller likes to use is this is addictive, right? This feeling is addictive. And you can say you don't want the offseason grind and that, you know, what else is left to accomplish? You know, now maybe Aaron Donald does have that one thing left to accomplish. He's never won a Super Bowl MVP, although I would like to say, for the record, I tweeted this the other day. I did have one of those Super Bowl MVP votes, and I did vote for Aaron Donald. It is possible to have watched that game and gotten your vote in for Aaron Donald in time.

Not to say the Cooper Cup didn't deserve it, but when I saw the way that Aaron Donald closed out that game, it was a pretty, it was pretty easy for me to send that vote in for Aaron Donald there at the very end of the game. But yeah, I mean, it was weird. Like there were times through last season where it seemed like the NFC was just so stacked and the AFC was kind of this just jumbled mess, right? When the chiefs were struggling and when the bills were struggling. And then we got to the postseason and the AFC was just such a juggernaut where, you know, there were good teams that didn't even make the postseason, right? The Colts, the Chargers, some of those teams that we thought were going to be most dangerous

potentially if they got in as wildcard teams didn't even make it. And now here we are in February talking about like who could possibly be good. in the NFC because that's just how quickly this can all change if your quarterback retires or if your quarterback is traded or you're aging and you've got roster decisions to make. You know, look, it was an easy decision to put the rounds at number one in our final posting power rankings. And if Aaron Donald and Sean McVeigh are both back, I think it'll be, there'll be a pretty clear number one heading into next season as well. But lots of stuff to go, lots of interesting stuff to go. And I'm really excited.

to just hear what all the buzz is in Indianapolis in two weeks as kind of the season or the NFL really moves into next year. I mean, just think about how many, how few proven veteran quarterbacks there are, especially in the NFC now that Brady is gone. Let's say Aaron Rogers gets traded out of the NFC. There's such a void there. And I assume if you're a team like Philadelphia,

some of those teams happen, if some of those things happen, you look at Russell Wilson being available and be like, well, if we trade for Russell Wilson, why not us? I don't know how realistic that is, but I can understand the thinking when you consider the power vacuum that might exist in that conference.

And it seems like a far-fetched thing, considering where we were a few months ago, but that's how it is. I mean, so many teams in the league right now have real questions about what their future should and will look like. And that's why we're going to be doing a bunch of podcasts over the next couple months.

There's nothing that's going to slow down for us over here. And thank goodness, the sports radio gods are thanking our colleague Mike Sando for slipping a little nugget in his pick six column after the Super Bowl that what if Tom Brady were to go to the Niners? Because that's going to fuel hours and hours of speculation over the next couple months. Speaking of the next couple months, just to lay this out here for you guys, Nate and I will be back tomorrow. We're going to do a mailbag. So questions are due by 1 p.m. Eastern on Thursday. If you're listening to this earlier than that, shoot us a voicemail. Send us an email. That would be really great. next week, I'm off.

I'm going to take some time. So are you, Lindsay, from podcasting at the very least. Wednesday of next week, Dane and Lance will be doing their draft show. If you guys have not listened to their draft show so far, highly encourage you to do that. So please come back and check out their draft show on Wednesday of next week.

We will be doing shows from the Combine the week after. So we got one week of off season here, one week of time off, and then we'll be back in full force. We'll have some news about what the offseason schedule is going to look like as we creep a little bit closer to it. The reason I don't have that news for you now is that I have not decided what the exact schedule is going to look like for the Combine and Beyond.

That is a problem for tonight's version of Robert, not right now. For now, really appreciate you guys listening, as always. Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. If you guys have enjoyed the show this season, I would really appreciate it if you would let us know. Please subscribe to The Athletic. You can look at all of the post-stop. Morton coverage that we have from the Super Bowl, from the season that was.

So speculating about what the offseason might look like already. Sheel wrote about that today. We always have great stuff on the site. So please go check out theathletic.com slash football show. For now, appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.