The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Biggest questions remaining after the draft

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

The coaching carousel has stopped spinning. The free agency frenzy is in the rear-view mirror. The 2025 NFL Draft is done. All 32 teams as currently constructed are essentially what they are going to be when they take the field in Week 1. So what are the weightiest questions we still have? Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen ask, and try to answer, those questions on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Rundown Who's going to catch passes for the Cowboys? Is the Bills pass-catcher anxiety warranted? Is the Cardinals OL good enough to get them where they want to go? Did Houston do enough on defense to stay the course? Who plays QB for the Steelers in 2025 The Panthers didn't draft a corner, and didn't take a safety until the fourth round....ummmm, what? How soon do we see Tyler Shough starting for the Saints? Sneaky teams we're excited to watch in 2025 Do any of the veteran trade candidates get moved? What happens with the veteran free agents and contract extension candidates? What are the Vikings going to do in the secondary? Lingering team-specific needsHost: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...⁠Apple⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠YouTube⁠Follow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. The draft is fully in the books now. Our draft analysis is done. We are going to spend today turning the page and looking forward a little bit for the first time post draft. We do the show most years and I think it's really useful as a way to kind of figure out how things look after the dust settles. We're going to ask the biggest questions we still have now that the 2025 draft is in the books. You can take that a bunch of different directions. We're going to talk about some of the biggest needs. that still exists on NFL rosters, who's catching passes for the Cowboys, who's rushing the passer for Washington, who's playing corner for the dolphins. There are a bunch of those that we can get to. Some wider, bigger picture questions, where are the remaining veteran free agents going to land? Some of the contracts that are still looming this offseason. Are there any potential trade candidates to take a look at that weren't moved over draft weekends?

So we got into all of that with Derek Classen on today's show. So let's get to it right now. All right, it's Wednesday, April 30th. We are now four days removed from the end of the 2025 NFL draft. The draft is now fully in the review. You know, we've done our reviews. A lot of people do like a ton of in-depth reviews of classes. We talked about every pick in real time for the first two days and then the 90-minute

podcast on day three. So I don't feel all that guilty about not doing like a ton of review shows after the draft is over. So this is the end of our draft-specific coverage on the athletic football. show. The door has been closed. We are moving on. We're turning the page. We're turning our gaze now forward. We've done this show really every single year since we've been doing the athletic football show. And I feel like it's the right next step after draft coverage ends. What's left? What questions are still left unanswered now that the draft is in the books and now that teams have made, most of the personnel moves they're going to make for the 2025 off season.

So here to help me try to answer those questions, of which we have a lot, by the way, more than I thought we were going to have coming into this exercise, it is my co-host here at the Athletic Football Show, Derek Lawson. How are you feeling, man? Doing all right, man. Still exhausted, if I can be honest. I mean, that draft week, it's a lot. That Thursday and Friday, it's a lot.

And then you still got Saturday where, you know, not as much of, you know, it's not a five-hour stream that we're doing, but still got to do a recap after again, what is a very disorienting? day three, it always is. So I would say I'm still tired, still feeling a little bit of the draft hangover, but excited to try to move ourselves into the next portion of the offseason here. So I need you to tell people, honestly, your honest opinion of the week that you spent in Chicago, how did you feel about it? Genuinely fantastic. A very simple way that I like to gauge, like, how fun or enjoyable a city is to me? It's just like how fun is it to walk around. And like at least the the parts that we were in, you know, mostly the West Loop, at least that's where I was staying,

was fantastic to walk around it. You know, it's not a whole lot to see, but there was just one point where I got lost for like 30 minutes and you just walked by a school and it was fun. And then there's the lake. It's not that far. Like it was just to Pleasant City where it's like, you know, even being though, even though I'm from California, I don't love L.A. Because like I just don't like walking around L.A. Like to me, it's just I need to walk around the city. And Chicago was a good place for that. Obviously, you know, you being you showed me a million incredible places to eat. So I would say two thumbs up for the city of Chicago first time being there. I love hearing that because it was very important to me for you to have a good time.

Over the course of the week, and this will be more, this would mean more to Chicago people and people that know the city. We went to Buff House for dinner, which is a very good steakhouse. We went to a Vec on Wednesday for dinner. You and I went to a Carnitas place in Pilsen for lunch on Friday. And then I took you guys to Lula Cafe on Saturday for dinner with my wife. A Vec and Lula Cafe, Aaron. in my opinion, like the two most reliable restaurants in the entire city. They've been open for two decades plus both of them. You can usually get a reservation.

I love the space. The food is incredible every single time. There's enough new stuff on the menu to make it worth it. So I felt like you got a pretty good cross section of where I would want to go and how I want to spend my time while I was here. I think I showed you the right spots. I feel good about my strategy. You didn't have a bad spot.

Lula Cafe was something else. So that to me was probably my favorite, the pasta yaya, where it's the cinnamon and all that was just like, you told me about it going in. And it was somehow better than I imagine it was going to be. It sounds crazy, but it's a pasta that has like cinnamon and garlic. And so it's very weird and it's very different. But if it hits you in the right way, it is really good. It's been on the menu for 20 years.

It's weird, but I love anything with cinnamon on it. And you can't put too much garlic in a dish for me. So it was just like I, this dish was built for me to enjoy. The funniest part was we walked there from the bar that we were at. And it's like a 20 minute walk and it was 50 degrees outside. And I thought you were going to die. You were, you were certain. That California blood, man, you guys are just soft out there.

We Ubered back for your benefit. I want everyone to know that. So it was only for you. I would have walked it, hooked it all the way back. But you needed to drive and that's okay. Well, I put you through a lot last week. So throwing you a bone on the last day, I felt like you deserved it. Yeah.

listen, if you're ever out this way when it's, you know, 100 degrees, I won't make you walk. So where like I can probably be okay with that. Yeah, exactly. I can be outside. I won't make you do that. All right. Let's dig into these. We've got at least a dozen questions that we wanted to ask. Just, I mean, there are a ton of them. I think there are plenty of teams that are specific needs that didn't get filled. Some bigger picture questions about trade candidates, the veteran free agent market. So I'm going to let you kick this off. And I felt like we had to address this considering we thought they might draft the receiver 12 or 12th overall, if one was on the board. They didn't draft a receiver until day three, period,

and didn't address it at all in free agency. Who is catching passes for the Dallas Cowboys is the first thing that you wanted to address? And I think that's a good way to kick it off. I was certain they would draft the receiver at some point. I think they really wanted Teteroa McMillan, like a lot of the reporting and talk about it. That's clearly who they wanted to get at 12.

And then when he wasn't there, they did the Cowboys thing of like, all right, we don't necessarily know what we want. let's just throw another pick at the offensive line. And that will probably be fine, right? Like, I think that was probably a good pick for them. You lost Zach Martin this off season reloading there. I don't think it was a bad strategy.

But they didn't really attack pass catcher at all in, you know, later in the draft. Like, this was just not something they cared about. They took running back, Jaden Blue, who was probably going to help them a little bit out of the backfield. But they did not take any starters at either tight end or receiver that are going to help them. So they're still going into this season with CD Lamb, which is fantastic. Obviously, a little bit of inside outside. the most explosive players in the league. But they're still waiting for the Jalen Tolbert breakout, which at this point is probably

of his contract. Right. Like it's probably not going to happen, right? Like if it was going to happen, we would have seen it. Obviously, last year, midway through the season, they trade for Jonathan Mingo, who a Panthers team who did not have that much going forward at the past catcher room was willing to trade away Mingo. And obviously, that was a different coaching staff that drafted him, whatever.

And then behind that, it's like Ryan Flournoy, who they drafted in the sixth round last year, who like, as a wide receiver four, that's a cool idea. But when you don't really have a good wide receiver two or three, that's not as fun of an idea anymore. So this is just a team where we knew outside of CD land, they didn't have very many options, both in terms of like having good floor options and good ceiling options. And then they didn't take anyone in the draft to make me feel better about it.

So it's still a spooky pass catching group to me. We thought they might take a receiver at 12. And I think everyone assumed that they would try to draft their running back on day, too, because the only moves they'd made it running back were one-year contracts for Giovante Williams and Miles Sanders. And it sounds like Williams, based on the way that things kind of unraveled here, is that he's going to be there starting running back unless I think Jaden Blue is going to be. Not sure how good you feel about that. And I don't think Blue can't be at his size. Well, I guess that's kind of the issue too. Yeah, that's not what he is. Right. And so I just

don't, how that room comes together is just a little bit surprising based on what we thought they might have done. And then the receiver group, they didn't do anything. I misread what you'd put in the dock. They didn't draft receiver at all. They didn't draft one on day three. They didn't draft a receiver at all. And so them, my assumption is they're looking at this with a mindset of Jonathan Mingo is the offseason edition. We made it receiver. All right.

I don't love that. I don't know how I feel about that. My concern here is that we're going to get to week six again. And my response to all this is going to be, man, I kind of think Kavante Turbin should be getting more snaps. Not again. The exact same way we did it last year. But think about it.

Play it out a month and a half into the season. Doesn't that seem to be the place we're going to land again? With the lack of juice, the rest of that group is bringing to the table? That or it's like, does Paris Campbell have anything left? Which again, is you're asking the similar type of bad question in terms of trying to find the explosiveness. So the only thing that I can understand is obviously once McMillan was gone, maybe they just didn't love Golden or any of the other receivers there. And that's fine. And cool, you take Tyler Booker.

So the idea is, okay, maybe Guyton takes a step. Maybe Beebe takes another step. And maybe Booker is, he's not going to be as good. is Zach Martin, but if he can at least be a good rookie, then it's like, okay, maybe the offensive line will be better and we can run the ball and therefore leverage that into better offense. I just feels like you're asking a lot from Tyler Guyton, who I think was really up and down last year. You're asking a lot of Tyler Booker who is replacing one of the best guards of the last decade,

which again, Booker might be good, but that's asking a lot. And then I still don't love what they have at running back. So even if your idea is, oh, the offensive line and run game is going to allow the passing game to be better. You still need like four things to go right for even that to be true. Yeah, I want to be clear. I'm not criticizing what they did in the draft. I think everything they did is defensible and makes sense. Like Tyler Booker where they drafted him, they needed a guard. Even Azaraku in the second round, followers on a short-term deal, Sam Williams is in the last year of his contract. If you thought that was the best player on the board, you can never have enough

pass rushers. And then getting Chivonne Ravel in the third round when their corner room is a little bit unsettled. But this is the problem when you don't fill needs in free agency. is that you have so many of them coming into the draft. It's the same as last year, where they needed to essentially throw a no-hitter with their draft picks for all of those guys to start almost immediately for this all to come together. And luckily for them, it was an up-and-down season for Guyton, but he was able to start right away,

and then Cooper Bebe was able to start at center. That's what they've done to themselves pretty much every single year. Like they walk into these drafts essentially needing to come away with like three to four starters for all of these spots to be filled, and you only have so many draft picks. So when you bypass wide receiver in free agency, and depending on how you're going to conceive the Mingo move, then you don't address it in the draft because you only have so many picks.

This is the situation you're left with, and I'm not sure you can feel really good about it if you're a Cowboys fan. I really can't. I'm also just surprised, you know, whatever we want to make of the Brian Schottenheimer signing, I am just surprised that they didn't feel like giving him any more pass catchers was the way to go here. It's just shocking.

I mean, this is a man who lived in Seattle with like Doug Baldwin and Jermaine curse and kind of made dude. Doug Ball was a fantastic player, but that was not a team that was pumping a ton of resources into its wide receiver room for the majority of the time. He was last an offensive coordinator. So at least he's used to this life where running the ball 40 times a game might be their best option. But when you don't feel good about the running back room either, I'm not sure that is the best option. So a lot of question marks for what this Cowboys offense will do and what this Cowboys offense will be good at. I guess that's my thing. You look at group right now and it's like where can we hang our hat with the players that we have outside of

Dak Prescott and C.D. Lamb. Maybe that's enough, but I'm not sure where else you would turn to answer that question. You need one other guy to help you out. Like for as far as Dak and Cid can take you. Jake Ferguson time, baby. Here we go. He's, he's cool if he's the fifth guy catching past registry. I don't know if he's good as the second. I like him more than that, but I still a little bit probably a little mean, but like, you still need someone else to help him out. It's not enough. This one's kind of tied to that. It's a question that I don't really have a lot of negative thoughts about, but after what

happened with the radio interview on Monday, I kind of wanted your opinion of it. Is the past catcher anxiety from Bill's media and Bill's fans warranted based on the room they currently have there? So it's Josh Palmer, Khalil Shakir, Kean Coleman, and the two tight ends with Dalton Kincaid. and Dawson Knox. Other than that, you know, you have Curtis Samuel

have some depth pieces, but that's really those five are what they're probably going to be leaning on along with James Cook. How do you feel about that? Does that make you at all uncomfortable as your skin crawling?

Or do you think that's okay based on what they had at the end of last season and all the needs they had on defense? They're going to be fine. Like, the thing is that I feel too. Like they're going to be okay because we've talked about something like this before

where I think whenever we talk about the ceiling for any offense, it's like, okay, you just need one player who is getting there for you. It could be your best receiver, you know, Justin Jefferson, whoever it is. It could be your running back. It could be your quarterback. And obviously in the Bill's case, you already have it with the quarterback.

You have one of the best rushing threats in the league. You have one of the best quarterbacks who is, once he gets outside of the pocket, can go make place for you. And he's a really good downfield passer when he needs to be like, you already have the explosiveness from the quarterback. So I didn't really mind them pretty much like the only way that their receiver room is going to be different this year. is putting Josh Palmer in place of Amari Cooper,

where Cooper outside of a couple of games really didn't give them a whole lot. And Palmer may not be the sexiest edition, but I do feel pretty confident that he's going to give them like good snaps when he's out there. That's really all that they needed. I like this a lot. Like it's really all they needed.

Josh Palmer as an insert for what Amari Cooper was supposed to be, I actually think is a very good way to conceive of what he's supposed to be in the larger, like, complexion of the receiver room. Because he gives them a skill set, even if it's a limited skill set and he's not a superstar player that they were lacking at the end of last season. Like a big bodied receiver who can beat man covers is what Amari Cooper was supposed to be and he never became that. And so I do think because the skill sets are so different when you pair them up,

this can be a more than the sum of its part sort of group when you pair it with a quarterback like Josh Allen. And again, like, I know we can look at the roster and be like, man, the bills are so much more fun and it felt more explosive when they had a Stefan. Diggs, and that's probably true. But even like Bean was saying, the reason they couldn't get over the hump last year, and even in previous seasons, is the defense just wasn't good enough. And so for them to, yes, it completely fell apart last year. Like they did not, especially in the secondary, they were not fast enough. And then up front, they just didn't have enough bodies.

And now they've at least tried to solve both of those issues with this draft. I mean, they threw what, three of their first four picks at the front four alone? That's probably what they needed to do. And adding a couple bodies in free agency, but boasts on a one. your deal. Hoyt is absolutely your third pass rusher. And so I think what you said about the offense, you can kind of apply the same thing to the defense. If you're not finding a ceiling somewhere, at least have a bunch of different things you can throw at it. That's what the defense in front feels like to me. Like we didn't, we couldn't go out and trade for Miles Garrett. So we're going

to solve it with volume and options up front. We can just have these waves of players coming at you because that was the thing about the defense last year. Three things I would say really worried me heading into the postseason. Cornerback depth, like, and that showed up against the chiefs in that game, where if anybody got hurt, they were in a bad way. The tackling its safety, which I'm still concerned about, right? They did nothing to address the physicality they have at that part of the defense. But then when you watch that team, you know, that pressure numbers and things like that weren't bad, but you just didn't feel the impact of the front four. It wasn't a group that you felt over the course of a game. And I think that's what they've tried to do here is that they've tried to add enough guys where

this is a group where you're going to feel the way they're impacting the game if things break right for them. Like with Landon Jackson and the pop he's bringing is your fourth, fifth edge rusher. That's a group that you can feel good about. And because they don't have that ace guy, I appreciate them approaching it this way. I mean, this is when they were good like three years ago, like when they've been at their best past handful of years, it was when they had like five of these guys who were again, not fantastic. But when you had five guys who were like capable number twos and threes, again, you've always talked about it's nice to have an ace, especially in the playoffs. And Ed Oliver, I think at times from defensive tackle has been that. And so if the rest of the room around him is better and actually lets him play like an ace, that probably gets them to where they need to be.

Yeah, you can't have enough. Like you can't have enough of these guys. There are a couple positions where you can't have enough. And that's one of them. Let's get to your next one here. This is, it was off the board in Vegas. you bring up this team and this unit at some point on this show. But what was your next question that you have coming out of the draft here?

Is the Cardinals offensive line going to be good enough to get us where we want to go with them? Because I think, you know, you've hinted to this before. And we're going to have, I think, like, a much wider discussion about the Cardinals at some point. But it's just like they last year, they would have these weeks where it was like, man, they were the coolest offensive football. Like they could get under Saturday. They could do all the rollout stuff. Tyler Murray was throwing deep down the field. he could do some quarterback run game stuff.

And then there would be these other games where they just get mashed up front. Like teams that had enough beef up front could absolutely just not let them get into the mode of offense where they were running the ball the way that they wanted to. And so that's kind of what I'm wondering where, you know, we kind of came into this offseason being like, okay, they obviously need to address defense and they'll throw a lot of stuff at that. How much do they throw out the offensive line to fix what was kind of been up and down unit last year? And the answer was nothing. They didn't do anything.

like they're going to let Isaiah Adams walk in for Will Hernandez. And otherwise, it's pretty much the same group that they were running back at the end of last year, which again, they had some good games. But I think when they run up against serious teams, it's going to be a little bit of a problem. I would love to be the person who explained their offseason strategy to Drew Petting. He's like, listen, you know, we gave you Jonah Williams and Marvin Harrison last year. Those are your investments. And now you're going to have to make do with the rest of what you have.

They drafted Isaiah Adams in the third round, but Isaiah Adams hasn't played much. You could make an argument that switching out Will Hernandez for Isaiah Adams, that the talent from day one heading into week one is actually worse than it was heading into week one of last year. And we have seen this group play really well for stretches with these players, but I think you're asking a lot. And I know that they needed to improve the defense. I know.

They absolutely did. but could you have used either one of the bullets that you spent on Dalvin Tomlinson, Jordan Birch, Walter Noan, one of them, somewhere on one interior offensive lineman? Couldn't that have been a slightly better distribution of resources? There's a chance that their defensive front is so improved next year that it doesn't matter and that were that change ultimately lifts them more than one interior offensive lineman would have. But I just know that if I were a member of that offensive staff, I'd be like, okay, I guess this is what we're rolling with.

That's a good point though, because I did kind of want to talk about it in these terms, too. Like, for as frustrating as some of the inconsistencies were last year, they were still eighth in EPA per play as an offense. And they were 12th in points per game. Like the lows were low, but they did get to a point where, okay, if we can raise the defense to like average-ish, then the 10th best offense plus an average-ish defense, that's a playoff team.

And so, like, that would level up the Cardinals from what they were last year. It's just for me, I felt like the highs were so intoxicating with this offense that I was like, man, what if we could just find a way to raise the floor and get that a little bit more? And I think that would have gotten me to take them a little bit more seriously as like a real team that can be, you know, get to the top eight next year. But the way that it's constructed now, they feel a little bit more like a hoping to be a wildcard team, which again is an upgrade. but just I wanted a little bit more. We run into this sometimes where you look at what happened in a season before

and you just assume the same sort of production this season after. And that's just not always how it works. Like regression comes. It's not a guarantee that, you know, you hope Marvin Harrison Jr. is better in year two. Maybe Paris Johnson takes another step forward. Maybe Isaiah Adams is a good player for you.

But that's a lot of baked in hope. And not adding any talent to that equation, you can plateau in a hurry. I'm always interested in that. When you have a unit that, that is good or is the stronger side of the ball and then a team kind of lets it atrophy with its additions in a given offseason and what happens to that team. Another one I throw out that's kind of similar to that, even though they did have a couple players, is like Houston's defense,

right? If you look at the resources invested this offseason from the Texans, it's almost all on the offense. They traded for CJ Gardner Johnson. They signed Sheldon Rankins and then they signed a couple depth pieces. That unit is so good. It might not matter. But it always, one, kind of makes me take notice and two worries me a little bit when a team is just kind of like, you know what, we're probably good on this side of the ball. Let's just crank up the dial on the other side. And with Houston specifically, if you look at the defensive tackle room, which is probably the worst part of their defense last year, it's a little scary. Like, Tim said they could have drafted one in the first round. I legitimately think you could have justified that. If they were like

the Tidelik Williams team, like again, I thought that was a little bit earlier for him to come off the board. But if they were the team that was at that point wanted to make sure they got a player like that, I would have been like, all right, I guess that makes some sense. Because right now you're looking at Tim Settle and Sheldon Rankins. And then behind them, potentially are Denico Aotchy and Mario Edwards. Edwards and Ochie are getting a little bit older. Tim Settle isn't very young himself. And he's never been more than just like a capable nose tackle rather than a difference making one. And then Sheldon Rankins is getting older and has consistently been on and off the field. So like this very much feels like a defensive interior unit that we could be looking at in week seven and being

like, all right, the Houston defense has a lot, but they're kind of getting run on a little bit here. Yeah, I'm trying to look at the draft and like where they could have. A lot of those interior defensive, like interior pass rushers and defensive tackles, they were off the board by the time they drafted Jalen Smith in the third round. And this is a team that I think absolutely could use some cornerbacked up. So I understand going that way. And then if you look at what happened in the middle of the third round when they drafted J.1. a lot of interior defensive players kind of came off the board in that stretch.

Darius Alexander, that's when Jordan Birch was picked one pick before them. And so there might not have been enough of them in that spot for them to justify it, but I'm still a little bit surprised that other than Rankins, they did nothing at the interior defensive line spots when you look at like the two-year outlook of that position group specifically. But I can't hate them taking J. O'Nole in the third round because of how much I like J.O. and then they still needed a tackle, right?

Like them going Higgins, Urshry in the second round. It's not surprising. But again, it's just one of those spots where it's like, man, I guess that's all they're going to do. Let's see how it works. And it is always one of those things where every team is always going to have more needs than they have ability to actually fill them. And sometimes you just have to take your losses to some off seasons.

My next one here, we're probably going to start it with this one. Who plays quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers this year? Who do you want it to be at this point? That's my question. Like if you were trying to win... For football reasons or content reasons? For football reason. If everyone's trying to keep their job next year, what's the best way forward?

That's a great question. If everyone's trying to keep their jobs next year, I think it's Kirk Cousins. If they're trying to do everything they can to win the most amount of football game as possible, jobs and downside be damned. I think it's Aaron Rogers. Like if you're shooting for the upside, then it's probably Aaron Rodgers. Yeah. I don't know how much more upside Aaron Rogers has at this point than Cousins. If Cousins comes back healthy from the Achilles or healthier.

But maybe I'm just, even at this stage, maybe there are just too many like high end flashes from Rogers for me to ignore it. And maybe there's just too much burned into my brain from the last two decades for me to somehow admit that Kirk Cousins may have a higher upside in 2025 than Aaron Rogers does. See, I've really tried to fight myself on that one because obviously Aaron Rogers is one of the best we've ever seen. But the last time we've seen him play at that level was like four years ago, five years ago. With cousins, it's only been two years since he was playing really good football.

Right. His last year in Minnesota was awesome. And then truthfully, weeks like three to ten last year were pretty good. Like those first couple of weeks where it was like, oh, geez, it looks like he can't move were bad. But then he kind of settled in. And obviously he got reheard towards the second half of the year and was bad and eventually got benched.

But there was that like six to eight weeks stretch in there where he actually looked pretty good again, even though you saw some of the arm deteriorates. So if he can get back to like that level and just not re-injure himself, that honestly to me is more stable than whatever I think we're going to get from Aaron Rogers at this stage. So if you were the Steelers, you would be picking cousins at this point. If you had to give up like a fourth round pick next year, you're going to have a couple of comp picks based on the way the free agency went. So you'd rather give up like a fourth and pay, I guess like $20 million for cousins if the,

the Falcons ate half of it than try to coax Rogers to your building. That's what you'd rather do. Yeah, I think so. I also just like, I just don't want the last year of Aaron Rogers. You know what I mean? And it feels like this is probably the last year. I just can't imagine a scenario where that's good. I just can't.

Man. The last year of Aaron Rogers is not going to be good. And I just don't want to be attached to it. I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I don't disagree with anything you're saying. It's just such a strange pair of decisions and such a strange pair of options that they're going to have to pick from. We'll see how that plays out.

I mean, I'm sure we'll get an answer. I don't know, relatively soon in the next couple weeks. What would be my assumption? I think they probably want to get this done. I mean, nobody else is in the running. They can do whatever they want. That's the, to me, is another question worth asking. Whatever way Pittsburgh goes, what happens to the other guy?

Yeah. See, I think if it's Kirk, I think the answer with Rogers is we just don't see him and he might just retire. Or he holds out for the Minnesota thing. If we get deeper into the offseason and the Vikings get a little bit on settled. Yeah. I mean, again, I'm on the record.

I would not do that. Because there is a chance to, like, if they see McCarthy in camp and it doesn't look as good and as healthy as they want, then, like, maybe they do call Rogers. But do you imagine if you're JJ McCarthy in that moment where it's August 4th or like August 10th and they call you into KOC's office and there's like, listen, JJ, I just want to let you know, we're going to bring Aaron in. You know, this is not about you. We still believe in you.

but we just need to do what's best for the football team. That's going to be a tough one that deep into the offseason if you're old JJ McCarthy. Yeah, that's, that might be a confidence killer real fast. All right, before we get back to the questions here, we're going to take a quick break. What's your next one here? I know what your next one is. And this is one I was already thinking about. It's not surprising to see your mind go here.

Yeah, you were big on this one pre-draft. The Panthers did not draft a single cornerback. And they didn't draft a safety until the fourth round. So this was a team where, okay, we knew the defense was going to be really, really bad. Do they prioritize getting front players or do they prioritize the secondary? The man calling the shots there is Dan Morgan, a former linebacker himself. So he said, I'm going to go get the guys up front. And that's what they did both in free agency and in the draft.

Obviously, in free agency, they signed to Sean Wharton. They sent Bobby Brown, both of them to play defensive tackle. They also signed Pat Jones, who is really just like your thing. third edge rusher, but still they're throwing bodies at it. The most rotational edge rusher that you can possibly imagine is Pat Jones the second. And he is on the most rotational edge rusher contract you could possibly imagine. It's like one year, 10 million. Like there's never been a more rotational pass rusher in the NFL than Pat Jones in

this moment. They've got all the mercenaries. They've got the mercenary in Jadavian Clowny. And then they went a tier below that and went and got Pat Jones. It's perfect. They've got the mercenary room. And then in the draft, they get Nick Scorton. they get Prince Lee Unman Mielin

And then they draft defensive tackle Cam Jackson So like they threw six new bodies At the front four alone this offseason In the secondary, okay, they sign Trevin Merrig Cool, that's good in free agency Then the only other move they made was to draft ransom in the fourth round So like this is This is a DB room that's pretty much J.C. Horn, Trevin Merrig

And hold on to your hats. I was surprised I didn't do anything at corner And it's not just because of the outside corner room. Like they gave Mike Jackson an amount of money that is the perfect pre-draft. If we have to do this, we can, cornerback contract. I think he's making like $5.5 million a year. So to not upgrade that at all, I understand that. And then they have Chow Smith-Wade that they drafted in the fifth round last year

that is currently slated to be their nickel. So there's just a lot of question marks with that group. I will say the way that the draft went, my understanding is they did not think that Prince Lee would be on the board in their third round. I think they thought really highly of him and felt like when he was on the board, they had to draft him. I think things fell for them in a way they actually really liked in the draft, and that included being able to draft him later than they thought they'd have to.

So this is a team, especially if you look at the edge room, where nothing they've done should prevent them from doing anything else. And so if that guy is the highest rate of player on your board, even if you already have Clowny, even if you already signed Pat Jones and free agency, those are paper over stopgap options. you're still trying to build the teeth of this defense for the long term. So it might seem like an aggressive overinvestment. But if you watched the players they had up front last year, I think you could pretty

easily talk yourself into an aggressive overinvestment. I mean, they were the worst run defense in the league. And the worst pass rush in the league. Them and the Patriots were like neck and neck. Right. Them and the Patriots were worst pass rush and then them and the Bengals were in there for the worst run defense. Like it was a bad unit.

So that's a good point that honestly, one, in the particular, ways in which they were bad, you could probably fix to the front. And then because you have such obvious holes at all three levels of the defense, who cares about like patching holes and being like, oh, we need to fix this. You need to fix everything. Just take whoever you think is the best guy. And if in the second and third round, they thought it was escort and in Mammal, then fine. And if one of those guys hits, then you've got a much different pass rushing unit than you had a year ago. So safety is one of those positions when you look at the free agent. you could potentially find someone that could at least play for you this year.

Jordan Whitehead, Julian Blackman, Kvon Wallace, Rayshon Jenkins. Ray Sean Jenkins probably is a little bit too overlapping with what Trevor America's bringing to the table. But you could find a starting, even not starting caliber might be strong. You can find a playable safety still in free agency based on the players who are left. And I think that could be an avenue for them to find one more body to add to the mixed back there. All right, let's stick in the NFC South. We didn't really talk about this a lot on day two. I think it's just because of some of the other stuff that was happening in the moment. It can get a

little bit chaotic. And then on day three, there was some other kind of larger, more pressing quarterback questions for us to get to. The Saints drafted Tyler Shuck with like the 40th pick. Like, Tyler Shuck is very much in play to be the Saints starting quarterback this year. So how quickly do we see Tyler Shuck? Is Derek Carr in the mix at all? Or does Tyler Shuck have a very easy path to the starting job. And is he the long-term answer as the starting quarterback for the New Orleans Saints? I have all of those questions as it relates to that player in that team. Man, it feels like between Derek Carr apparently being a little bit injured and

honestly being a little bit disgruntled beforehand. And then Tyler Shuck taking him in again, the top 50 where if you take any player in the top 50, you expect that guy to be a starter for you or at least have. first in the pecking order at a starting job. And again, quarterback can be maybe slightly different there. But this is a team that I think going into this offseason new Derek Carr was probably not going to be their long-term option. So I'm not surprised that they went and got a guy like Tyler Shuck.

I also think it's a funny fit because probably the closest I could get on a comparison for a quarterback for Tyler Shuck was Derek Carr. So they're kind of just drafting like, hey, what if Derek Carr was a cooler hang? Like that seems to be what they're going for for the quarterback room here. And we almost never see, and just relative to other areas where they're drafted, quarterbacks don't often go in the top half of round two. Like, it's just kind of a strange place for quarterbacks to get drafted. You can almost immediately rattle off the players who were drafted there and ended up

becoming good players like Drew Breeze, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick was drafted there. Derek Carr. Derek Carr is like one of the only quarterbacks to come out of that range in the draft. So you can make a lot of connections between who Tower Shuck was even as a prospect and where he was taken that you can with Derrick Carr. Yeah, and Carr was a little bit older too. Not 26 or whatever, but I think he was a five-year player. So there really is a lot more between these two than it would seem.

But it's a, I almost think to the fact that they invested in offense ahead of Shuck also makes me believe like they're trying to do as much to try to get him out on the field. Like taking Kelvin Banks at nine and saying, okay, we want to make sure we really have the offensive line settled for our new quarterback like that to me again i really think they're going to give him every shot to go win the job i want to address this right now earlier today let's call it two hours ago i sent you a slack message and said which unit or team are you more excited to watch now like in a demonstrable way where it's like oh man i guess i'm i'm i'm really excited to watch that group after what they did in the draft any team any unit in the NFL on the table the first thing out of your mouth was the

New Orleans Saints offense. Defend yourself because that is like the answer of an unwell man. So I'm in the stage of the offseason already where like morbid curiosity is more important to me than anything. And that's kind of where I've arrived with the New Orleans Saints because one, you have the question of again, when is Tyler Shuck going to start? And I think everything that they're telling us with where they picked him, making the Kelvin Banks investment, their car potentially not being ready to go immediately.

Like it seems like they're going to try to put him out there. And so I think rookie quarterback X on any. team already has a level of interest to me that is going to be higher than a lot of other teams. These two receivers also, if they're healthy, are really good. Like, Chris Oliva and Rashidh, are really good, really explosive downfield threats. And then I kind of love the idea of throwing Kelvin Banks onto an offensive line that is one already big. And then honestly, if you insert him into the lineup and you can figure out a different way

to get a best five out there, they might be like kind of decent. Like, I don't know. There's, I don't think it's going to be a good offense. but if I think about what I thought the Saints offense might be a month ago with a lot of, you know, known commodity at quarterback. I didn't know what the offensive line was going to be. I was like, ah, this isn't very exciting. But then you add a new quarterback into the mix and a better offensive line. I can at least talk myself into them being like pretty watchable.

You are one of a kind. I don't think the Saints offense is going to be bad. But the fact that I gave you anything on the board and that's what you picked. Well, Drake May, Drake May, your Lord and Savior, Drake May, now has. as a new left tackle, Steph Diggs, Travion Henderson, Kyle Williams, and you are more excited in terms of your pre-draft expectations to watch the Saints than the Patriots? Well, so here's how I'm going to defend that. I knew the Patriots were going to throw a bunch at the, I knew they were,

I already knew they were going to throw a bunch of stuff at offense because it's like, dude, you have Drake May. Why wouldn't they throw all their offenses there? And so I will, I will say they did draft better than I thought they would. Like, I loved every player they took. Like getting Wilson where they did, Williams was incredible. will pick. Henderson, I mentioned like literally five seconds before they went up there and made the pick. I was like, hey, having him to give some pop would be cool. But I already in my mind was like,

oh, they'll be better. I did not conceive of the Saints as a team that would do some interesting stuff on offense. That's fair. I don't want to do kind of wide arranging opinions of draft classes or offseason in general. We're going to do a lot of that over the next month or so. So I'm kind of dancing around those sorts of examinations because we're going to, we did it last year, where we bought or sold all of the offenses in the NFL. We're going to off seasons in the NFL. We're going to do that again over the next month or so. So I'm trying to hold back on that a little bit.

The Saints is a reasonable answer based on what you said. Like you sold me, okay. Mine very quickly, Patriots right up there. Like the Patriots offense now becoming a unit that I'm actually excited to check out. No matter what happens, that is a fun one. The Seahawks offense, right? Like, I just don't know. Like, I have no idea what's going to happen there.

And so all the the volatility and the sheer range of outcomes that could exist on the Seahawks offense based on what they did this offseason, love that. The Raiders offense, which we talked a bunch about during the draft shows, don't know what it is, don't know how it's supposed to work. I can't wait to watch it. And then the Jags is the other one that I would say. Like what that unit looks like with Travis Hunter, with a new offensive coordinator, all of that. Those are probably like the three or four. And then the other one, and this, again, I don't want to push this too far. But the team where I look at the roster right now and I'm like, oh, man, I kind of buy this is the Broncos.

Like what the Broncos did this offseason, I'm like, oh, I kind of buy it, man. I look at every single layer of this. And I am, I'm in. I'm very intrigued about what this could potentially look like. I'm extremely in on the Broncos. There's also a part of me where like everyone in their mothers now is like, it feels like we're all two in on the Broncos. And so I'm not necessarily selling. tag though. It's too early to Zags are for like June and July. I'm not selling. I want to be clear. But I am now thinking of like, okay, there's got to be something here I'm missing with the roster. So I'm going to start coming through it a little bit more than more I think about it. And so that was probably the big one. The other one is to me, I, when Seattle, I was still iffy with a lot of the stuff that they did and probably not as excited for the offense. But when they drafted Jalen Millrow, I was like, I'd like to see him for one reason or another.

were coming from a team that just had to figure out how to use Taysom Hill. So if there is a staff that, you know, they used him a lot, by the way. Even when like, they used him a lot. You, I thought, dude, I thought this was a purely Sean Peyton P. Carmichael, the Tastom Hill thing. But Clint Kubiak got there and Tastom Hill was on the field a lot, dude. That's what I was going to say, is that it was only one year that Clint Kubiak was there. But they did not shy away from using Taysom Hill.

So I'll be curious to see what the. Jaywin Milrow usage looks like in year one. All right, what's your next one here? Next big question at post-drafts as we look forward to the off-season, rest of the off-season. For me, it's just, we talked a little bit going into the draft, like are any of the veterans going to get moved? And so now my question is less like,

are any of them going to get moved? And just, do I feel differently about them getting moved now compared to now that we're after the draft? Like, I felt pretty good that the Baltimore was actually going to try to see if they could move on for Mark Andrews during the draft, they didn't draft the tight end and they didn't move him. So that actually says to me like, okay,

maybe they're actually just okay writing out this year with Mark Andrews and they'll keep it going. Do you like that? Because I feel like if I'm the Brabans, I think I'm so close that I could easily justify just trying to run it back for another year and seeing if we can get over the finish line. That's kind of how, like, I would understand both sides, right?

Like you, I could see a world where they really like Isaiah likely and they want to get ahead of it. it's like, okay, let's just jump ahead and see what we can do. But again, you could make a case that Baltimore was the best team in the league last year. And so why would you not try to keep as many of your best players together as possible? And Andrews is obviously one of those guys. The other non-move that also made me feel differently about whether or not the player is going to get moved is Jalen Ramsey not getting traded. Because I thought for them, the reason that you would trade Jalen Ramsey is you didn't have picks in this class.

And so you would, if you wanted to reset now, maybe you would move on from Ramsey now. The fact that this draft is over and you still have Ramsey on the roster, it's like, whether he's happy or not, you might as well see it through with this season with him. They've outwardly said that they're going to trade him, though. Like they've explicitly said that they're working toward a trade with Jaylon Ramsey. This isn't a we're reading between the lines sort of situation. This is Chris Greer at a microphone a couple weeks ago saying, yeah, we're going to find a trade partner for him. My thought about the Jaylon Ramsey situation.

I know exactly what they do. We're talking positions, positions that haven't been filled in the draft that I want to get filled. One that I didn't mention because I knew we were going to talk about veterans that could be traded. Why aren't the Rams just going to send a fourth round pick to the dolphins for Jalen Ramsey like next week? To get him back? I mean, I guess if the relationship isn't soured and I don't see why it would have been. I guess that's not the worst. is the most logical move on the board.

Is the Rams going out and trading for Jalen Ramsey to play that other outside corner spot? At this stage, you know, I don't know what his contract looks like, but I can't imagine the base salaries are totally, are a huge obstacle to something getting done. Let's look at this right now.

So his base in 2025 is $1.3 million. And then it's $10 million in 20206. So there's really nothing preventing them financially from doing something like that if they wanted to. And the only financial hang up is the Dolphins giving him an extension like eight months ago and then now trading him. But again,

they've explicitly said that they were going to do it. Yeah, I just, I feel like at this point, I don't know who wants to do it. I guess there are still a number of teams that would have the money. The Rams could have the money. The 49ers,

I really wouldn't hate them doing it. But the Panthers need another corner. There are plenty of teams that can use one more corner. Right, but the Panthers, I feel like you don't trade for Jalen Ramsey unless you think you're close to something. You're right about that. You're right about that.

You're right. right about that. But the Rams are absolutely to make a Jaywin Ramsey trade. And I assume there would be some other potential suitors if this ended up happening. So even if it didn't happen on draft weekend, I still would be keeping an eye on Jaywin Ramsey getting moved. I guess I was just in my head so like you had no picks this year.

Like you needed them now. And so the fact that they waited so long. Yes. Like it just, I feel like the resource management of it all just doesn't makes sense for them to have not traded Ramsey at this point. But if they said they're going to do it, then I guess they're going to do it. Which other guys do you have an eye on in terms of getting moves in point this off season? Kirk, who we already talked about, so we don't really need to rehash that. And then like, the one that I don't feel any differently about between pre-draft and post-draft is George Pickens. Like, he's going to get moved at some point.

Like, they, that's going to happen. And so at this point now, it's just finding the landing spot. Like, we already talked about the Cowboys not. having enough ammo at the past catcher spot? Like, is that a team that they feel like they could go do that? I'll be curious to see if they do end up trading him. Really? You think we, they won't now? I think that's different just with the public messaging about it.

I mean, though everybody knows that they tried to deal them 100 times over the course of draft weekend. I feel a little bit more confident that Ramsey will get moved than Pickens. But I still, I see where you're coming from with the Pickens thing. I think it's just a question of, you know, you walk into next year, are you going to get a comp pick for him? What's more valuable to you? Is it a fourth round pick in 2026

or him playing out the season for you? I don't know where the Steelers would necessarily land on that. I don't even know where I would land on that. It's like a good enough compensation. Like, why would you trade him? Like, if it's not going to be significantly better than the compic that you're going to get, then what is the point?

Especially now where you can't use the pick, you know, four days ago whenever the draft was. Yeah, and I'm always hesitant to do the, well, you're going to get a compick for him because you don't know what players are going to get in the market and you don't know what you're going to do in free agency. But at the same time, like if nobody's willing to give you more than a fourth round pick for him, I don't think it's even a matter of weighing the comp pick versus the trade hall. It's a matter of weighing the trade hall versus what he can give you as a football player in 2025.

Like that still matters. Like even if he's going to move on after the year, if you're trying to win games, he's still probably going to be better than wide receiver X that you're going to plug in if you do deal him. So I think the price had to be right for them to feel motivated to do. it. That's a good point because even behind him, their receivers now are Robert Woods, who's a little bit long in the tooth, Roman Wilson, who basically didn't play last year and there's also more of a slot receiver to me and then Ben Skorotic. So yeah, even if they did move him, like they would probably still need to do some other move to fill out their receiver room if they wanted to. So maybe, that's a good point. Maybe they just don't move him at this point because they just don't have many of their

options. I mean, there's a chance that obviously there is overlap between his skill set and DK skill set. but if you want to use D.K. more on like slants and breakers and things like that and you want to use Pickens as more of like a vertical target, they could play together. You know, there's not so much overlap that they couldn't play together. Who is the, now I'm trying to think of it, I'm forgetting his name. Who is the receiver that played with A.J. Brown at the end for Arthur Smith and Tennessee. Corey Davis. Corey Davis and A.J. Brown weren't that different of players in terms of like how they were used within that offense. And it was okay. So I do think that they could probably be fine if they had those two. two guys in the same team, even if there is a decent amount of redundancy there. That's a good point. I mean, and it is Arthur Smith. So maybe he was even, his input in the DK Metcalf trade might have been, I've done this before.

It'll be fun. I've done this with a big body old Miss guy, even though the other guy was better. Let me try this again. Let's stick with some of the veterans, because that was my next question here is essentially what happens with the veteran free agents and then what happens with some of these looming contract extensions that we're looking at. the veteran free agents that are kind of at the top of any list you look at Keenan Allen and Amari Cooper receiver.

I think it's telling that both of them, neither of them have signed anywhere right now and where they're at in their careers. Rasul Douglas and Mike Hilton, I think both of those guys, if you have a need at corner, whether it's in the slot or on the outside, they can still play. They can still give you starting quality snaps. Asante Samuel Jr. is still a free agent, which obviously was very up and down for him with the Chargers,

but still a young player. You know, if you're trying to say maybe our infrastructure can get more out of them does a team take a dice roll on somebody like that and then there's a couple pass rushers out there not as many as there often are at the stage of the off season like emmanuel ogba just signed with a jag so that's another one off the board but Preston smith and zadarius smith are are both still free agents i thought sidarius smith still had something in the tank last year when he got traded to the lion so is that a guy that um like the like washington right like Washington still needs an edge rusher do they go look at a guy like sidarius smith to be their third or fourth edge

rusher as part of that room. So those are the veteran free agents that were atop of mind for me. Is there anybody else that's on the market that you're curious what their landing spot might be? I think those are the big ones. And to me, it's probably Zadarius Smith. He's probably your best potential needle mover. But he's probably not going to sign.

He shouldn't sign until later in the offseason, right? Like he is one, he's going to be the best pass rusher I think left on the board. But also. You get on that clowny plan, man. Yeah, typically these guys who are a little bit older, the 30 plus bull rushers are just like, I'll wait till August. I'll skip the offseason and I'll be good to go. You know what I'm going to give you.

I don't need to be. I don't need all the, you know, 10 weeks of the planning. The playbook's this thick when you're playing that position that way. So I think they'll be just fine. And the other veteran question I have is what's going to happen with some of these looming extensions, right? So George Kettle just got done, which not surprising. Like even if those third contracts and deeper, like deeper into the career contracts for players

at those positions, they can be dicey. I think he's so central to who they are as a team that getting him back in the fold for the next three or four years is worth it for them. Like that's something I would do every single time if I were San Francisco. What happens with Purdy and what is the number, right? It's going to happen. But what is the number? So that's going to be a domino that has to fall. And there are other, like, really impactful players are going to be hitting free agency this off season.

The Michael Parsons thing, which this is the last time I'm mentioning it until it gets done. I'm not bringing it up again. But Michael Parsons still needs a new contract. T.J. Watt is hitting. free agency this off season. What does that look like? That discussion based on where he is, Trey Hendrickson, Colton Miller with the Raiders. Rishon Slater is actually going to be a free agent. This is his 50-year option year. And so that's another one where like, what's going to happen with that? Where is that number of land? Nick Benito and Zach Allen for the Broncos,

right? So this is a team that we talked about this a lot. Like, their defensive line depth, a lot of those guys were hitting free agency this off season. So how do they address that? And then there's a group of tackles where I'm just fast. fascinated by where their markets are ultimately going to land. Like there are three guys who are good players, not great players, but are deserving of second contracts. And I think you'd have a hard time upgrading on them in the draft or in the offseason. Zach Tom, Bernard Raymond, Luke Geddke.

Like those are just guys where we don't really talk about their contract situations that much, but those are, they're deserving of new deals. They're just not deserving of top of the market new deals. So what do those teams do with those players? and then there are two receivers that I think are in a very similar spot when it comes to their career arc. One, I think we always knew was a better player than the other, but they were on the surprising offenses last year. And now I'm not sure what their contract situations look like. Terry McLaren and Cortland Sutton are both hitting free agency this year.

And they, to me, they're kind of in similar situations, like the arc of their team, the role they play within their team. So all of those players and where things shake out for them, I think is, worth taking a look at this offseason. I think for a lot of these guys, the most interesting part is mostly the number, right? Like, Purdy, I think it's the number. Parsons, it's the number. I think there are only a few where I'm like, are they, I guess that's actually my better question.

Out of this group that we just talked about, you know, this dozen guys, how many do you think are not on their team in 2026? It's a great question. Like when I'm looking at it, see, Sutton is probably the toughest because I feel like he's not a player that you immediately have to keep on your team, but. But they didn't try, they don't have anybody else. Okay, they don't have anybody else. And also, when you watch Bo Nix play, he trusts Cortland Sutton with his life. He will throw him the ball no matter what. And so that's, if I have a young quarterback, why would I want to separate

that? So I, I would, to me, it's Hendrickson. Because let's say, Shamar Stewart hits and Miles Murphy takes a step forward. I think that is the set of circumstances where the Bengals get to the end and they're like, we've spent our money, right? We can't have another player who's making top of the market money. I don't agree with that. I think it's nonsense. I think Trey Hendrickson should be on their team and is one of the reasons that they'll be competitive.

But that's the one to me that says it. And the only reason I say that, Colton Miller would be one I think other people would say. But I think Colton Miller to me is similar to like the Garrett Bowles plan where, okay, maybe he's not like an elite player at the position. But when it comes to left tackles, the wilderness is so scary that those guys tend to hang on in those spots because teams are afraid of the unknown and afraid of moving on from guys of that caliber.

So that's why I think the Colt Miller is that position in its history, even if it's a new staff, even if it's a new regime that didn't commit to him, I just think that it's dicey to move on from players in the middle of the pack at that position specifically. Yeah, that's usually a position you, again, yeah, you don't want to enter the wilderness, especially like in this year in particular, I get why they wouldn't want to like maybe try to find a trade package for him because you're you're trying to re-jump start everything. You don't want to leave your quarterback who just, you know,

came from Seattle's offensive line and throw him behind something bad. So the only one of the other one I think on here that's going to get tricky, actually too. T.J. Watt, because of so many of the injury history stuff, I honestly wonder if they're going to be willing to keep him around. Obviously, he's a phenomenal player when he can say healthy, but I could see a world where they just kind of let him and Hayward almost out of the building around the same time.

And then the other one that's fascinating to me is like, it depends on how this season goes. Right. Well, that's the thing is like if he only plays nine games again. I mean how the season goes for the Steelers, right? Like let's say Kirk gets there and gives them average NFL quarterback play and they go like 11 and 6 and they are competitive in a playoff game. You think they're willing to move on?

from T.J. Watt in a circumstance like that, I don't. So I think the T.J. Watt question depends on how this Steelers season goes. That honestly probably makes sense. And then again, I think if he gets fully hurt again, but that projecting injuries is always like not really worth it until you see what happens. But the other fascinating tone is to me is like, do you think the Broncos are going to pay both Benito and Allen? They'll probably pick one, right?

Yeah, it's probably true. You almost have to. With some of the free agency money you threw around this offseason, Again, we have Cortland Sutton on here who's another expensive player that you're going to have to pay. They were both so good last year, though. They were awesome. They were both so good last year. And they've got a good amount of salary cap space next off season.

And obviously that's because they've got Colonson and Zach Allen aren't going to be on the books. So John Franklin Myers is going to be a free agent after this year. My assumption is that maybe John Franklin Myers is one of, is like, that's the type of depth you let go. And then you try to bring back all three of those other guys. They've got enough financial wiggerum to make that work. They're on a rookie quarterback contract, and they haven't done anything like crazy and splashy and free agency. The only places where they've really spent a lot were the 2023 free agent class and Patrick Sertan. Like those are the only real gobs of money they've thrown around in part because the Russell Wilson contract was preventing them from doing it.

But now we're in a different financial reality with this team where they haven't spent exorbitantly and they're still in the rookie quarterback window. So they have more wiggle room than it. probably might seem based on how we've talked about them the last two off seasons. That's a good point. Maybe they can get away with it. And I would love if they could because they have such a funny pass rushing room of just four 250 poundsers who are fast as shit and just get after you. That's why you need them though.

This is like the Broncos defensive line is the answer to the 100 men and a gorilla question. It's like when you've only got, when you've got this many expendable pieces, you just need a ton of them. Like that's how they're approaching how they rush the passer. I'm so interested to see where the Tom Raymond Goddeky contracts land. Because if you look at the tackles in general, right? So if I were those guys as agents and I was walking into a negotiation about my deal starting in 2026, there is not a chance in hell that I am taking a dollar less than Dan Moore got

in free agency. Like that is the starting point to me. And I think I'd probably negotiate up from that. Oh, and you have to. but then you're getting into a somewhat interesting territory, right? So Lane Johnson's side for $25 million a year this offseason. And then Christian Derisaw was $26 million a year when he signed his deal. And so how close are you getting to that?

And I think the Dan Moore deal specifically may complicate some of that. Because if you look at the contracts that have been signed like in this general range before this free agency period, like Spencer Brown is a very good example. Spencer Brown made $18 million a year from the bills in 20. that's probably where the starting point would have been if these contracts hadn't happened for these guys this offseason but now that the Dan Moore contract exists for all three of those guys I'm asking for 21 million plus I think you have to and especially like I think Raymond is Raymond and get deckier kind of the most interesting to me because I think Tom as a player was

pretty good out of the jump as a player and then he's like kind of plateaued not in a bad way he's still very useful. Whereas Raymond and Gedeki, I almost wonder if there's a cell of like, they are clearly still ascending. I think that is mostly true of Raymond in particular. I think his first year in the league was rough, but he's really ascended to me to like proble left tackle level status. So he's the one who's number I'm very, very interested in. But even for Tom, in a world where right tackles and left tackles are now essentially even with the Penisual contract. And Jalen Moore got $15 million a year. year in free agency.

Like, if you're Zach Tom's agent, I think you're totally justified in asking for like $18 million a year on his next deal. I think you absolutely should. Yeah, I don't think I don't think any of these guys are going to make like, you know, not a lot of money. It's just I'm most interested to see who gets the most. I guess it helps Raymond that he's the only left tackle out of these three. But again, that market has really closed between those two.

And with Tom, them. drafting Belton where they did, maybe that's a situation where if Morgan plays tackle, if Belton plays tackle, they feel like they can move on from Tom after the season because they don't want to pay him that. That'll be interesting to watch. There's a part of me that wonders, is the market like really shrinking or do we just have a lot of really good right tackles now? But we always had a lot of really good right tackles. Like Mitchell Schwartz was as good as a lot of left tackles, but he still wasn't getting paid like an elite tackle. That gap existed as recently as.

like four to five years ago. Trust me, ask Mitch about it. He still has some feelings about how all that played out. I've heard a lot about the fact that right tackles have not gotten paid commensurate with left tackles over the last four or five years. But I think that's why it's so notable that it's starting to shrink. All right, we're going to take one more quick break and then get back with our last couple questions here.

All right, what's your next one here? This is a team-specific one that I'm glad you mentioned because I was going to forget. Yeah, this is team-specific. The Viking secondary, they did a lot of cool stuff with like some, you know, an interesting room last year. It's a worse room this year. So they brought back Byron Murphy and free, he set out to free agency and then just came back to play the nickel for them, presumably. But the outside cornerback room is probably going to be Isaiah Rogers starting on the outside who like, I think we liked as a nice replacement level player and like, okay, if they can't draft the guy, this is acceptable. But they didn't draft the guy. So he's probably going to be starting.

And then the other guy is Mackay Blackman, who is coming off of an ACL terror from last year and was okay as a rookie, but not like, oh my God, this is going to solve our outside cornerback room. And then like I said, they, oh, actually, even before I talk about the draft, they let Cambine him out of the building, who was, I think, a pretty good safety for them. And then Harrison Smith is still okay, but he's getting older. And like, that wall is going to come at some point. So they've gotten worse than older in the safety room. You're taking a lot of gambles at the outside cornerback room. and then they didn't draft a single guy in the secondary this year. And granted, they only had five picks, so I totally understand that.

But they didn't spend any of their picks there. So I just, it feels like the cornerback room or the DB room in general was already getting by last year. And now it's just a worst unit. So I just kind of wonder if Flores can actually piece this together again. It's a great question. And I was wondering if they were going to hit safety a little bit harder because that is an area where you could kind of talk yourself into them having a need. They didn't do that either. This is very funny.

So I mentioned earlier when we're talking about the Panthers, where they had Mike Jackson at that other outside cornerback spot. And his contract was the type of contract where coming into the draft, you'd say, oh, they could probably use an upgraded outside corner. But if they didn't get one, he'd at least be an answer. If you look at cornerback average contracts right now, Mike Jackson and Isaiah Rogers are making the exact same amount of money. It's $5.2 million a year.

And the third team that I would say about this, where they signed a guy this offseason to a very modest contract to a point where we mocked players there at that position the entire offseason. But them not doing it, you still feel like, okay, they did something is Mike Hughes with the Falcons. All of them are making the same amount of money. It's like $5.3 to $6 million a year. So that's the exact type of corner and that's the exact type of situation that we're talking about. about. It's always so funny when there's like a very obvious going rate for like a very niche thing where it's just like, all right, there's going to be four or five teams that just need to sign a corner for just in case we don't draft one. And then that's exactly what they're there

for. And they'll make. And then there's no one else. Within a million dollars of each other. It was within less than a million dollars of each other. And there's no other market. After that, you essentially get to, you know, Dante Jackson is a little bit higher than that. I would say that's a similar sort of deal. But after that, you're really talking about guys on rookie contracts, sauce gardener, Devin Witherspoon, and then guys that are making $10 million plus. So that is its own little tiny market.

And then there's one step down from that that I think these guys are more depth pieces, like Brandon Eccles with the Steelers making $3 million a year. Isaac Yadam is making $3 million a year. But there's those types of players the next step down from that. So you can see the clear delineation. in what the expectations are and what's being lumped onto these players based on what the AAV is. And so the fact that all three of those teams, the Panthers, the Vikings and the Falcons, where teams we thought might draft a quarterback in the first two rounds and their cornerback

twos are all right in this range, it's perfect. Like it tracks so well that it's easy to understand. And you know what's funny, though, is at least, you know, we already talked about why the Panthers didn't do that. And I can kind of understand it, even though they had a decent amount of pick. the Falcons and the Vikings just did not have picks. And so like they just didn't have the ammo to even solve this problem, which I think makes it even funnier. I mean, both of those teams and the Panthers and the Falcons were both like, we can't live this life again up front.

We got to do something to avoid living this life again out front. And that's how you arrive at this point. And we've seen this throughout NFL history. I mean, even the Vikings actually really did that with what they did in free agency, right? They spent all their money to get Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen. And they spent all their picks to get Dallas Turner last year. Right, that's where the picks are. And we've seen this happen a million times, right?

Teams are saying, okay, the pass rush will help the secondary. The pass rush will help the secondary. We can skimp a little bit back there because we're paying premium prices up here. We'll see if that works. And when you're a team that I think has, I mean, in the case of the Falcons and the Vikings, the Falcons absolutely have divisional champion aspirations. I think the Vikings after last year probably have bigger aspirations than that. It's easy to say that past rush will help the secondary until you're in the NFC championship game

and you're really worried about who you're number two corners. Yeah, when you have to actually cover the guys against the best quarterbacks who can deal with pressure all right, then it becomes a different equation. Speaking of the NFC championship game, I just want to run through a couple team specific needs that didn't really get addressed and I'm wondering how they will before we get out of here. Washington and pass rush help. They added Dietrich Wise this offseason, but I think they still could use one more pass rusher,

is that it as Adairius Smith team. Do they try to make a trade, even though they're a team that doesn't have a ton of picks and hadn't over the last couple years because of the veteran trades they'd made? The Raiders cornerback room. Have you looked at who's playing corner for the Raiders right now? Where are they at?

The Raiders cornerback room. It's going to be Bennett, obviously. Yes. So the Raiders outside corner. room. If the season were to start today, is Jacorian Bennett. Eric Stokes. Richardson, their fourth round pick from last year's first thing I'm not going to try to pronounce right now. Eric Stokes and Dary and Porter who they drafted in the third round. That's a hang on to your hat sort of situation. That's a lot of banking on Pete Carroll and

that group developing that corner room. I thought that they could draft a corner in the first round and then they didn't end up drafting one until the third round. And everything that Dane said about Darian Porter is that's going to be a work in progress. So the Raiders cornerback room is when I'm keeping an eye on. The Dolphins cornerback room with or without Jalen Ramsey is one I'm going to be keeping an eye on. And the other group that I can't believe they didn't do anything. And I appreciated their draft. They understand what they're trying to do.

They had so many holes you're never going to be able to fill them all. The Jets defensive tackle situation outside of Quinn and Williams would give me night terrors. I would just wake up sweating. based on what it currently looks like right now. It's Derek Nadi again. We talked about this before the draft and they didn't do anything. They didn't do anything.

That one, especially too, like we saw towards the end of last, I mean, their defense fell off for like a million reasons. But part of why they weren't as good, and we talked about this with the number of units with why the Niners weren't as good the past few years, if you're going to be this team that is, you know, obviously they're going to be a little bit different with Glenn. But if you're going to do a lot of this four-down stuff where you're just kind of letting the pass officers get after it, you need to be able to defend the run and get into pass rush downs.

And if you can't even do that, you're going to have a lot of issues. So yeah, the Jets defense kind of scares me. The Raiders cornerback room being what it is is very annoying because they're the team I want to get the most jazzed about this off season. You couldn't do it all in one off season though. Like they were just so far away that you couldn't do it all in one off season. So it's not even a criticism for them not addressing it.

It's just, okay, this is still a question. Like the draft is over and I'm still wondering how this is all going to shake out. when you're a team in the Raiders spot, having a bunch of third and fourth round picks that you're going to have to sort between to figure out those roles, that's not a bad thing. Like, it's having those guys just learn on the job and get a lot of experience and potentially hitting on one of them, that's a totally reasonable way to approach a group like that. The variance on it, though, is just so wide that it's a question. Like, that's what this exercise is about.

Which questions do we still have? and how the Raiders cornerback room is going to shake out is one of those questions for me. And right. And that's a good point. It's like what and what questions do you think your coaching staff can solve? Of course. There's an idea that Pete Carroll could get the most out of all of these players, which again, like if the ceiling for all of them is not that high, probably still doesn't put you in a very good spot.

But if they felt good about his ability to do that compared to like, you know, what if they didn't draft Jack Bess in the second round? than who are your other wider seafers? It's like I could see how they conceived of that being a bigger, less solvable issue than what they did in the cornerback room. There aren't any other, I think we've hit most of the glaring needs that I'm curious about. I feel like you mentioned the Panthers Corners is a good one. The Cowboys Pass Catchers is a good one.

As I was going through like most of the other depth charts, nothing jumped out to me where I was like, man, what is this team going to do with this position? So I wanted to spend today hitting a lot of those, and I do think that we did. The two other things I mentioned. One, I don't want to spend a ton of time on it. How the Bears Pass Catcher Shakeout is going to be absolutely fascinating to me, but we'll have an entire offseason to talk about that.

The other one, as I was going through every Depp Chart in the league this morning, I didn't see that Seth McLaughlin signed as a street free agent with the Bengals. I absolutely love that. So he's coming off the Achilles, so he's going to have a redshirt year. Ted Carras is a free agent after this year. So there's a chance that McLaughlin could, be ready to play for you in 2026. And they already drafted Dylan Fairchild in the third round.

So that could feel like a very different interior group by the start of the 2020, six season with both of those guys. I liked both of them a lot when I was watching them in college. That, you know, I hesitate to get in front of my skis with a Bengals offensive line looking good because it's been a very long time. But if Fairchild is who we want him to be, if McLaughlin, you know, kind of looks healthy and plays well next year. And if Amarius Mims takes a step,

because we remember this year, he actually looked insane in the preseason, and then he was like kind of not all that healthy throughout the season. He got banged up, yeah. He got banged up, exactly. And so if we can expect the development, I think we want out of him,

and I think Mims is incredibly talented. Like, I think he's going to be really good. So it's a lot of ifs for an offensive line that's been bad for a long time. But if those actually work out, we have a wholly different unit than we've ever seen in the Joe Burrow era and probably their best, it would be their best offensive line in a long time in Cincinnati if all those things came together.

The Chargers defensive approach this off season kind of reminds me of the Cardinals' offensive approach. Yeah, and they... We have a coordinator that clearly can get the most out of the talent, so we're not really going to worry about investing a lot of talent. It seems like that was how they approached this. And so, and for them, I can see a world where they really thought making sure they were giving Justin Herbert a chance on offense. was actually their best path forward to winning more playoff games. And it should be. Right.

Exactly. I think it's fine too. It's just we said all last season. This Chargers defense, it does a lot well. And they don't, you know, when you look at them on the chalkboard and stuff and the way they're putting stuff together, it's really impressive. They just don't have very many difference makers. And I still feel that way. You're not going to find difference makers in free agency, right?

That was the only area where they probably could have been more aggressive, is if they had been more aggressive. is if they had been more aggressive in free agency. But they brought Khalil Mack back on one of the highest AAV contracts anyone signed this offseason. And there aren't a lot of other players that are worth paying among this group. So them being cautious in free agency, the same way the Ravens have been for years and saying, we're going to build this thing through the draft,

like other teams, like them draft Hampton and Trey Harris in the first two rounds as the way to try to lift their offense, along with signing Mackay Beckton. That's a fine strategy this offseason for trying to remake that group. and then you get Jamari Caldwell in the third round to get some defensive tackled up, which they needed. Again, no criticisms of what they've done. I just think that you're going to really make Jesse Minter earn his paycheck

based on the way that you approach this. And, you know, I guess that's actually the other thing too is, one, we knew they needed some offense, some offensive help. But even though I wanted a little bit more firepower on the defense, I think with where they were picking, to me there probably wasn't a defender that I would have held in the same tier of player as Omerian Hampton.

I mean, I would put Jehad Campbell in there, but they didn't really need a line. Like, that was the one thing on defense they were probably fine at. But when I look at the corners and pass rushers available, it's like, well, Hampton probably gives you so much more on offense and so much more pop that, like, I probably would rather have that, even if we still are lacking firepower on defense. Even beyond pop and firepower, they needed an engine of the offense, right?

Like, that's who they want to be a guy like Omerian Hampton makes sense. And we said that in real time. So we can talk about all these teams. We're going to. We're literally going to talk about every. single team's full offseason over the next month or so. So we're still figuring out exactly what May on the athletic football show is going to look like before I head out on vacation at the end of the month.

But we're going to do those shows. We know that for a fact. And we're going to start them next week. So at some point in the month of May, we're going to have a considered conversation about the entire offseason for all 32 teams. So we don't have to step on that now. We can hold back a little bit because I think we're both tempted to do that. But trust me, that is coming starting as early as next week.

So that's all we got for today. We really appreciate you guys listening. Just a heads up starting next week. We will be back on the offseason cadence we had all the way up through the draft. That's four shows a week. We're going to have our Monday mailbags. We're going to have shows on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, every single week all the way through the off season.

Maybe a couple exceptions in there. But that is the cadence that you guys can look forward to from us over the course of the off season. So we'll be back with a. bunch of shows next week. For now, that's all we got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.