The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Bills-Chiefs' rainy rematch, kickers can't kick, Justin Herbert & Tom Brady defy logic, the Bears can run & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

Josh Allen tops Patrick Mahomes at a rainy Arrowhead, Justin Herbert wins in a shootout, the Chicago Bears running game stuns the Raiders, kickers can't kick in week 5 and more with Robert Mays and Nate Tice on a NEW Athletic Football Show postgame edition.Watch this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/MdLkB85m3ZMGet your discount to The Athletic at theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Doing well. This is the last week without any bye weeks for many teams.

And I think everybody made sure to get our monies worth with a full slate of games. Even starting at 6 a.m. to now here we are. What is it, 1 a.m. East Coast time recording this. What a day. It's midnight. time. I've been watching football since about 8.30. One of my best friends ran the Chicago Marathon this morning. So I watched her run the marathon in two different going back and forths in Old Town and then was watching football between that. So it's been 15 hours of football. And it's

not been a chill 15 hours of football. The first window of games was absolutely bad shit crazy. everything that happened down the stretch there, I couldn't figure out how the Packers had gotten the ball back at one point. I didn't know how the Vikings got all the way down there. I watched zero seconds of Vikings Lions before the last field goal. So either the worst game or the best game in NFL history had just happened. We're going to get into everything, everything that happened. Let's start with just a very strange Sunday night game.

Obviously, we don't have many weather-delayed, Sunday night games between two of probably the best three or four teams in the entire NFL. That's why we're starting so late. But whether aside, whatever the delay looked like, what a game by the Bills. I mean, this is, to me, just a statement about what they are as a complete team. We've had that as kind of a hypothesis coming in, right? The defense was playing so well, were they for real based on their competition? and if the defense was that good,

combined with what they could still do on offense, what could this look like as a complete team? And I think we kind of got the answer tonight. Yeah, we've kept tabs on the bills like throughout this whole year. Obviously, week one with the Steelers wonky game. And then after that, the wonky Dolphins game where, you know, they blew them out, but it was like it wasn't a huge offensive performance from the bills.

And, you know, just keep tabs on, keep tabs on and keep tabs on them. We break down their defense for the Friday show. And it was like, how the defense played. They saw they played the whole year, but it was like they just went against a much better quarterback and a much better team. But this is what they've been doing all year.

They just play really smart, really sound. They don't beat themselves up. And if the defense is doing that, and we haven't even talked about the quarterback who only through, I think he only had 15 completions for over 300 yards. Just like a service academy quarterback, like just 20 yards per completion,

just launching them away. But that's, I mean, it was. It was a complete team. That's what they've kind of have shown. more this year that if the offense struggles or doesn't look it can look disjointed at times maybe when it's just like hey Josh Allen go do something because I mean look at the run game tonight it was

like hey let's have Josh throw the ball let's have Josh run the ball did you like how they unleash that tonight I mean that counter bash play they ran in the red zone it's just straight out of the Ravens playbook I've never seen them do that before and doing that in the red zone makes total sense I was talking to somebody there when I was in camp and I was asking them was like do you feel like he didn't run the ball enough or well enough last year. And the response was, we didn't run the ball well enough in the red zone. And to me, one of the solutions to that possibly was getting Josh more involved in that area of the field.

And you saw that today. I mean, they feel totally comfortable, even if he's a $50 million a year man now, using him as a battering ram down there, which I think is sound strategy if you need to run the ball better in the red zone. That's where it's more important to flip the math. We've seen what running quarterbacks do down there. they did that in specific situations tonight, combined with him just firing lasers 50 yards down the field

because Daniel Sorensen can't get back into the deep path fast enough. So the offense, I think, pretty much what we expect, right? I mean, they can make big plays down the field. I thought that they took advantage with some of those late disguises from the chiefs. They were not ready to kind of account for them being able to push the ball down the field in some of those situations. Sorensen just left toss and knocks on that one touchdown. Everything was going swimmingly, and he was just like, eh. The Chief's defense is a problem for another day.

It's going to continue to be a problem, I think. I want to talk about the Bill's defense, though, because coming into this game on Friday, I posited that I thought this is how they'd play. We're rushing four. We're not blitzing. We're playing coverage behind it. And that's what they did.

They didn't blitz one time. They blitz zero times in the entire game. Is that what it was? I was going to ask, I could not recall a single one off the top of my head. Wow. And remember on Friday? We're talking about how.

even though when they play zone defense, it's not passive. And they played a ton of too high today, which is not surprising against the Chiefs. But look at what they were doing underneath. That clip they showed right after halftime, just beating the shit out of Travis Kelsey. And that's why I liked what they decided to do. It's like, we're going to play passive on the back end in the sense that you're not going to beat us over the top. But underneath, we're going to get up there. We're going to be playing physical.

We're going to be right up in your face the entire game. I thought it was a great gameplay. And I thought that their front took over in the way that we thought they made. might when they rebuilt that entire unit this offseason. I thought that some of the holes of the Chiefs offensive line when they're forced to drop back showed up for the first time. Orlando Brown coming into that type of offense, I think people had some apprehension about what he would look like when he was put into this system that showed up a few different

times. It was just a complete win. I couldn't really be more impressed with what the bills did and what their plan was. Yeah, the soft coverage. It's kind of funny. That's what's a fuddle Josh Allen a little bit this year. And then it's like, they're like, hey, what's. do that against them. Let's do it against the Chiefs. And, and I mean, that's what we talked about on

Friday was like, like, I cracked the joke, but I'm dead serious. It's so frustrating when you know what the defense is going to be in. And you like, I know how to beat this and you still can't because the other unit's so well coached. And they're just, it's a different type of swarming to the ball. Like they, so they sprinkled in a couple snaps of man coverage, especially on third down tonight. And it was kind of cool to see a team do that to the Chiefs and go like, we're not you can, we're going to run man against you and we're not scared. And that's why Mahomes had so many scrambles tonight because guys weren't getting open. Because those bills defenders were just beating the crap out of the Chiefs.

Like that's just what just kept happening. And just seeing that kind of like unfold throughout the night and seeing a defense consistently do it throughout the night. And you know, Chiefs got some good drives and then shot themselves on the foot. But that's the game plan that the bills had was they were going, you can't nickel and dim us the entire way. You're going to get bored. Some one of our guys, these nine D-Lignment that were rotating in, going to get a hand on the ball. One of the guys going to squeeze a tight throw that you try to throw in there. Tiger Hill is going to drop a ball. Like you're going to make a mistake and that's what

they bet and they won. And like like, like, tip your hats to them. I mean, it was like we've, we've, we've already mentioned right before, but it's just like this is a total team win. It was like really, really good win and, in unusual circumstances too with the rain delay and all that stuff. And yeah, like way to go buffalo bills. I mean, really, it was just a good performance. We're talking on Friday about how this is the type of defense where it's a Milano game or it's a Rousseau game or it was an everybody game. Everybody had one or two plays that they made, you know, hide or hide the pick six touchdown. Even if he, that ball hadn't been dropped, he was ready to stuff hill right two two yards short of the sticks. That's a play where you deserve that play because you're in the right

spot. I think that was their playing cover one. He was playing in that robber spot. And like we've been talking about so often is that that those safety's playing robber. on in man coverage and just being there to kind of make plays and passing things off. He was right there in the right spot. You had Rousseau had the big play with the tip. You had Addison had a couple really nice plays off the edge. Everybody contributed. And I think that was encouraging.

I mean, that's exactly what you'd hope for when you build a roster like this and when you fancy yourself a true title contender. And I think that's exactly what they said tonight. It's like, we're here. We are here. And I hope you guys understand that. If you're going to make your defense and people go, oh, the bills just have no stars on their defense at end.

it's like, well, they have a lot of good players. And it's like that. If you play like that when all the good players, it's like you said, just taking turns, making a good play that helps because then it's like when someone has a down game, hey, we got 10 other rotational guys are going to like pick up the slack. Oh. And yeah, just speaks to what they what they build over there. And and, you know, we are just real quick on the offense.

It's like it's kind of a little bit of it is, is what I've knocked, you know, what the Cardinals have done a little bit where it's like they put a lot on the quarterback to do stuff. But it's screwed. But if you have a guy that's making plays like he is right now and just his eyes are still good. It's like it's not like chaotic in the sense. His brain's not chaotic, but maybe the play ends up being chaotic. But it was just that the fact that they're able to do that and not take the shots.

Like when he's running the ball, Josh Allen doesn't really get smoked all the time because he's hurtling some guys. But also like or he's running them over or running them over like I know like Cole Pepper style. I know. And then like in any slides, I've never seen a guy get more yards on a slide. I know it was rainy today. It was like a slip-in' slide tonight. He was just going full speed at it. It was great.

What a big guy can run that fast. Just a big kid having fun out there, man. Just a big kid having fun out there. It's always doing. So speaking of chaotic, let's get to Chargers Browns. Let's do it. This game, I tweeted this when it was happening. This game was if football Twitter became self-aware.

Like it developed a consciousness and became sentient in the middle of the game. It was incredible. And I want to start with the decisions that in and Staley made because it was nuts. Think about it in an NFL game five years ago. If you had a coach going for it on fourth and two from his own 24 yard line in the third quarter, and it's why they won the game. They went for it on fourth and two.

They went forward on fourth and eight. They went forward on fourth and seven. And they continued to get it. If they don't do every single one of those, they lose this game. Yep. And it's so cool to see somebody rewarded for these types of decisions. And this is a great, I mean, this, one of the things that I noticed during this game I thought about, which is not a novel thought, there were a lot of good players in the field. I kept thinking that.

I was like, holy shit, just the amount of guys making plays. But when you have a team with this type of talent, with this type of quarterback, and you have a coach that's going to give them every single opportunity to win the game for them, that's what you saw. I mean, they should not have won that game, but they took advantage and squeezed every drop out of every single chance that they were given. Like Herbert is like the loaded gun and like what what that it is with when Staley's going for it on fourth down and the whole offense is like no one hesitates on the whole team because you know it's like you know he communicates it. The whole team knows. Hey, we're going to be aggressive. We're going to be aggressive. But Herbert's the loaded gun. They're just like given the poison coated bullets. Like that's what all it is. It just makes it more. I mean, it just makes it more devastating. It's like, okay, that five yard gain now is, oh, that's more backbreaking. It's just like everything hurts more that they're doing. It's like just an added effect that. that this does. Can you imagine there's six fourth down attempts? I think like before even like it was near the end game situation by both teams total. Like that is just like, where are we in 2021? This is awesome. Like we're just getting more ball plays and just like more fun plays. Like that's the that's just the bonus of all this. And like Herbert is just absolutely insane on those third and fourth down. So why wouldn't you? Like if he's the deep touchdown of Mike Williams. It was sale. We've talked about that the charges run. everybody runs sale this and we talked about last year on one of the podcasts we talked but we made a joke about like how the alert is really the number one but no one really throws the alert Justin Herbert threw the alert on sale like he didn't he

he could have thrown the sale route it would have been a first down on third and explain what that means explain with the with the construction of the play looks like yeah a sale concept is an alert is a post or a go like just depending on that what the defense looks but a deeper route to take the top off when you hear the term take the top off that's what that is. Sale is like a flattened corner from the slot or from the inside somewhere. And you can switch it up and everything. And then usually there's a third level to it, where there's a flat route or a crosser coming from the other side.

So you make it kind of a three level read. And for when you taught these concepts, like if I'm teaching this to a freshman quarterback, I'm going to go, hey, that's the alert. You peek it. If it looks wide open, you chuck it, but you're going high. The post. Yeah, the post. That's the alert. That's alert is number one, but it's the alert because then it's, uh, the coaches are

able to talk out both sides in her mouth. They go, well, that's not number one. If you don't, if you do throw it and it's not open. And if you don't throw it, you go, hey, remember the alerts. Number one, right? But it's the alert. You got to alert. But you go from the post, which is the alert.

And then one's the sale route, which is the flattened corner and then check it down to the flat or you work the backside dig. Most quarterbacks would throw the sale route because it was open on that third 10. That's taking the double. That's great. Good. Way. Happy.

That's a B plus a minus. Herbert just went NASCAR. I'm throwing the post on third 10, throwing the alert, taking a top off. And it's like, But that's the, if you want to beat these defenses and we can talk about it, what kind of what these defenses are doing to these quarterbacks and trying to limit big plays and make you work for it, that's how you don't let them play top down is by literally taking the top off, taking the post route, even to a Mike Williams, who isn't a burner, but you're just making defenses honest.

And that's what Justin Herbert does on third and fourth down, just over and over and over. He takes home runs instead of doubles, instead of singles. Like it's creating yards and creating points. And then if you have a play caller or, uh, decision maker going like, hey, you guys got all four downs. Makes those third downs even more weaponized because now you can, the whole field, you don't have to just throw it past sticks. You can check it down and make it fourth and four.

Just good stuff. It's all, it's, it's good team play. And it's just aggression being rewarded, which is awesome. And then I think he hit the other long touchdown of Williams was another post date combination I want to say against quarters on first down. They had a lot of quarters beaters on first down. And when you're throwing that post, there was a miscommunication. Delp it just like short-circuited.

I don't know what he was. He was looking at. I don't know what he was looking at because there was no one there. And he just almost short-circuited. And then you had Williams coming behind it. The thing that I've noticed about Herbert that I find so interesting, because remember coming into the season, there's so much talk about, is he going to regress against pressure on third down?

And I kind of think that he's just built for those moments. I almost think he's kind of regression-proof. And this is why I say this. It jumped out to me on the Parham touchdown that he threw today. I can't remember what down it was on. but Parham chips a little bit and then releases late. And Herbert, and there's a free rusher because the edge is coming off after Parham lets him go. And the way that Herbert creates space for himself by being able to back up and still has the arm,

it almost makes him pressure proof in a certain way in certain situations. Obviously, no quarterback is that. But his ability to create space between him and defenders and still get throws off because he has the arm and because he's so good at resetting, it's just different than what a lot of other quarterbacks can do. I think guys couldn't make plays on the run, but his ability to create space and then reset is amazing. He did it on several different throws today. We did it on the long Allen throw down the right side line.

He does it all the time. And I think it's just such a special characteristic that he has. And then you combine that again, like we've talked about, some of the stuff they do with Allen on third and fourth down is just nasty. They ran out, I think it was arches. Shanahan play where you have the tight end on the slot, he clears out, and then Alan runs a little angle behind him essentially, which is against man coverage on third down. He's going to be an

advantage. They ran on that on the fourth and eight. That's what they ran. Alan's open. Gets the first down. I mean, they just have such good personnel with Herbert, with Allen to make the most of those situations. I mean, they're really good, man. I don't know what else to say about it. I mean, he's on his way to being like one of the better quarterbacks. in the entire league. And when you give a guy like that as many opportunities as Daly is right now, they're going to win a lot of games. Yeah.

He's a special mix of traits in the sense that there's very little times, very few times. I'm sorry, I'm working on my English, very few times that you watch him and it's like, oh, why does his eyes go there? Like, that's why he's so devastating on third down is because he's always going to the right spot and he can actually make the throw. There's a lot of times on third down where quarterbacks, they know they have to get there, but they're like, ah, my feet aren't set. I got to check it down.

We're ending with a punt. All right. I took the single. All right. We're fine. He's going to find that deep dig, find that deep stop route. Find these deeper routes that are 10, 12, 15 yards, 5, 10 yards past the sticks. And it's like, it's, we talk about changing the math in a run game.

It was like a plus one and all that. But it's like he's changing the math of the field, like what he can attack. And like you're saying with the resetting, you're talking about a deeper throw. He even had one on stick. and it's unbelievable how much stick it gets around it. All stick is is just double outs guys. And it's like you can do out three by one or two by two. And it's just like it's just such a core concept for everybody.

It's just like I feel like I'm repeating myself. I'm like, oh, you run stick. It's like this only concept I know. I feel like it's no, it's just because everyone runs it. But anyways, on stick you go outside in on the read. And he, rather than get caught up on the outside, throw in the stick, the flat. He like, without his feet even resetting, he was able to zing in like a little inside

one to Mike Williams. it went for like 14-yard gain on like a third and four give or take but like when you're talking about how he's able to throw so hard without resetting or quickly resetting it's like it gets the ball in the playmaker's hands that much faster and it's just like now it's the ball's the ball is that many miles per hour faster getting to and he operates so quickly with his mind and he's so twitchy for a big guy that's the thing the way that he can kind of flip his hips like that and that's how he can reset it is really without getting all messed up like it's like it's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's It's very rare. I mean, just like a rare combination of Trace as a quarterback, and you see it come up all the time. I mean, but again, they got a couple of little breaks here and there, and they lose this game. I mean, that's how good the Browns are. I mean, you have the very iffy pass interference on the Williams' fourth and four that probably could have gone either way. And then if, let's say I think this is, I truly think this, I think that Viscano missing the extra point was bad for the Browns.

Because them being up by a one, they go into the next set of downs, up 42, 41, I believe. They run the ball on 1st and 10. On 2nd and 10, they throw it. And I can't remember who ended up matching on the receiver, but it was a really nice job. It was his own coverage, but I think it was...

Oh, it was German James. It was German James matched on Higgins and did a really good job on 2nd and 10. So they get to 3rd and 10, and they run the ball. They run the ball on third and ten They pawned away Chargers get the ball back and they end up winning They pushed them in obviously

Not a lot of urgency by the Browns on the final drive I think that was also a concern Overall though I still think a pretty impressive performance by Cleveland I mean you have their running game is still so nasty I mean Chubbs touchdown run is so good Their screen game is so good I still have my Baker concerns I mean just watching him double clutch every once in a while

He played well all things considered But I still just that gap between what Herbert is and what he is, I think that there are moments where that just shows up in this game. And I think it's a truly important gap. It's jarring, especially when you watch Alan and Mahomes and then like say, like, so as we're watching this game, I glancing back at, you know, the, at the Chargers game and the Browns game. And then you see Herbert operating so quickly. And then all of a sudden you see Baker. And it's like, you know, I'm not trying to knock Baker too much. But, you know, it just doesn't look the part as compared to these three other guys. And then on top of it,

Like you're saying, like all these throws are coming across over the middle of the field. All of a sudden, he's double clutching it. He has to zing it in. It just looks a little harder. But it is just jarring going from those three. And there's just all of some, there's Baker doing that stuff or trying to read out the stuff that they are doing, like freakish natures. I think the Browns are really good. I think they'll be in it until the end.

You know, they were missing their left tackle today. I mean, a bunch of different stuff. I think they'll be in it until the end. They have so much talent. And on defense still today, I mean, Garrett was really good again. some of the stunts with McDowell. They didn't even have clowny today. Yeah.

It was funny that Slater said, told the backs of stop chipping. Because you could tell he was annoying him. I mean, that one sack that Garrett had, he's like, no more. Don't touch him again. Because you see that on those late ships, that's not a good thing for an offensive tackle. You want it to be early and immediate or you don't want it at all. I completely understand that. But, well, especially because the tackles are setting inside so they get the outside help.

But then they can't do that forever. They're like, oh, well, I guess I got to get into this. I just probably pass it at some point. It makes sense. It has to be immediate. If it's not immediate, then it's not going to be helping you. Yep.

But that final drive, when I say the Browns, I think I'll be in it to the end. When they're set up to play the game, they want to play, they're really good. Yeah. When they have to get it,

when they have to have the bucket at the end, I don't, I just don't trust him to do it. Yeah. It's just a different feeling to me when he's trotting out there needing to go down and win the game than it is with the other guy. Then it is with Herbert or it is with some of the other guys.

that we watch every single week. It's just a different feeling in that moment. When they're not the ones dictating, when they're not the ones scrambling, they can look amazing because the run game is so dominant. And when they're playing from ahead, I think they'll be really good or when the game script is in their favor.

But when they need one, there's still that creeping down in the back of my mind. It's not going to go away. It really creeped up too today. It's like you kind of felt it like when they got the ball back right there at the end. You're kind of like, no timeouts. That's a long way to go for Baker.

Like, you know, It wasn't like they'll have too much time on the clock for them. Like because you don't know with that drop back. But when you, that's a two minute situation. When you get into the two minutes situation, it's totally, NFL is just so situational. Like down distant wise and clock management wise like that also in the browns only being up or being up one point. They're in a four minute drill instead of kind of like a moving two minute drill to get the field goal thing. But yeah, it's just like that I completely agree.

It's a totally different feeling like when Baker had the ball at the end of the game just because that's not how they're designed. to win. All right. Let's get to who grabbed our attention this week. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention. A lot of stuff to sort through this week. So let's talk about a couple people over the course of a football Sunday, a very long football Sunday. There are a few guys that's like, all right, you made me stand up straight in my chair. Here are a few of them. Let's start with the greatest quarterback of all time playing some of the best football he's ever played. It's just absolutely ridiculous how well he's playing right now.

Tom Brady, 30 to 41, 411 yards, five touchdowns. I know the dolphins aren't winning a lot of games. This is still a past defense that has teetered on the edge of the top 10 for the first month or so of the season. This is what they do well, presumably, not today. No. As Josh Allen, how this defense looked a couple weeks ago. Exactly. Exactly.

They have been giving people fits. at Tom Brady, Pro Football Reference tweeted us out right before we started. It's only the eighth time that a QB's had a pass rating over 140 with over 40 pass attempts and like ever in NFL history.

It's like, and that's what it felt like. And you know what the Dolphins didn't play for the second half of the fourth quarter. It felt like, I know, it felt like St. Thomas Aquinas, like one of those high school like just beatups.

Like I like we're also in the other, oh, backups in there, you know, let's put Gabbard in there. But like they're just dicing up the man coverage like Antonio Brown finished with eight targets Mike Evans eight targets Chris Godwin 11 targets and then even like you got Joe Bernard on running angle routes in the red zone yep it's just like Leonard for net running what the hell quick like quick outs from empty like actual routes like actual I had to double check because you know we're down these single digit numbers I have to check with all

these guys I'm like that's for net right it was really funny a back they signed a couple weeks ago like with some injuries or something I know I know it's ridiculous but they're they knew they're getting man coverage. That's the thing is if you're going to live in that world and the the offense knows that a quarterback like Tom Brady knows that, hey, you're going to be a man coverage every single play. It's the fact that they're not hitting just like man beaters like mesh, like the Antonio Brown long touchdown was just mesh where he climbed up.

But then they're hitting like deep hinge routes 20 yards down the field of Mike Evans where he's just like the difference is like we're going to get to it. But like watching other offenses run a hitch in those situations on first and 10 like, okay, five yards. We're good there. the bucks are like, ah, it's getting explosive.

Like, what's just drop, no play action. What's just drop back and just like, what's just dice up man coverage left and right? Nope, like a limited play action. Just dropping back seven step dropbacks,

protecting it up and just having our awesome receivers just win over and over and over. Grunk game play today. Like that's, it's insane. It's actually insane what they did today. He's playing quarterback at such an insanely high level. And it's just, the way he operates in the pocket, we shouldn't be surprised.

But when you combine that with all the talent that they have, that's what you see in these moments. That touched on to Antonio Brown. The right guard gets beat on that play. It's not a pressure, but the right guard gets beat on that play. And he just managed to drift back just enough in the pocket to get that off. And where he puts that ball to Antonio Brown, is perfect. Ridiculous throw. Yeah.

I mean, just that is, when you look at the still right before that ball leaves his hand, he's in the middle of the field. He throws about seven-yard. left of where he is, leads him into open space and he runs it for a touchdown. And then the Mike Evans touchdown, that is, he lets that ball go half a second later. He gets crushed and does not get that thing off. That's a 50-yard throw down the field that he throws at the back of his drop on time, looking off the safety just long enough to get it out. And just the way he navigates the pocket.

I mean, it's, you have to play almost perfect football to be this aggressive. and still be able to not worry about your protection. And he's playing close to perfect football in these moments. There was that Brian Hoyer clip from Hard Knocks about talking about how he navigates the pocket and he stands within like a box that's two feet by two feet. That's what you're seeing all the time right now. The precision is just absolutely amazing. And you combine that with their ability to throw the ball down the field and just really small stuff today.

A lot of the screens, a lot of the ways they got Godwin involved. I mean, it's when they're rolling, it's really, really fun to watch. Yeah. And we've talked about it before. It's hard football. But the thing is when the quarterback is doing seven step drops and the ball is just coming out right on the first hitch. It's not two hitch, three hitch, and then the ball comes out. Yep.

Exactly. And then on top of it, the guys are all winning the routes. Like if you're playing man coverage, they're forcing you to win one on ones. But they're just taking turns going like, I think Antonio Brown's going on this one. Mike Evans, who's Mike Evans got on him? Yeah, I like that matchup. Like just and you know you're able to operate without the play. Like play action concepts like the deeper ones and we talk a million times.

Those are technically seven step concepts. Like that's just what the route distribution is and the route depth. So you make it easier on the quarterback by making it more or less half field read or progression read where you can go left to right or right to left. And you also, you know, touch down the checkdown. Make it easy on. Like I just said we're talking about sale going, hey, alert to touch to sale to check it down. they're doing that without the play action concept, making all four or five guys alive eligible receivers.

So it's not just two or three guys and everybody's wotted up. And then he's dropping back. So they're not going to any play fake on it. And they just do it like dozens of times a game and we just don't blink an eye. Like it's it's insane. Like this is that 2015 Cardinals offense just like tweaked up like five more times like just with even better players and a better quarterback, which is I never thought I would see again. Like, but we've been seeing it probably the last like, you know, year ish, about 12 months. It's really funny.

There are moments where I watch other quarterbacks and the defense will instantly get pressure or they'll bring a pressure look and it's like, well, what are you supposed to do about that? Yeah. And Brady's the answer. It's if you play perfect football, you can beat that shit. And that's what he's doing. He's getting the ball out and just operating at such a fast-paced high level. And that's what this looks like. It's truly special when it's clicking and that today was one of those days.

Yeah. All right. Let's get to an offense that we have not said that much about over the course of the season so far. that's the Atlanta Falcons. Kyle Pitts, you have my attention. Goodness gracious. This is what I hoped for. Yes.

When before the season started, not just the production, right? Nine catches, 119 yards and a touchdown. It's the way they used him. He's running deep posts on that the final play that was just like the backbreaker kind of game sealer. He's running a post with Corderole Patterson pinning down the backside savior. And he's a tight end. But that's, I didn't want him to be a tight end and he wasn't today.

There are a couple plays, right? Like the one long vertical route coming across. He's starting in line. But he's just a receiver in a lot of these moments. And he's the best receiver that was on the field for them today with Galvin Ridley not playing. And we, the few weeks ago we talked to, or I tweeted about it and we made a joke about it. But he was like, pass protecting against JPP. And like, you know, you see it.

And when those clips are good to see. Because it's not like you don't, he's not going to make his money doing that. No. But it's just unlock so much for the offense when a defense has to go, he's actually a tight end. We have to play in base personnel. Otherwise, they'll road grade us. And it's a guy who can hit one three a game where it's like now you have to account for it. That's exactly what it is. It's a center going. It's, it's, it's Brooks Lopez learning how to shoot threes. That's what it is. Or Marcus Saul like once he went to Toronto and stuff. Like that's what it is. And it's like he just doesn't enough. Because now what happens is the Jets, when they split them out, or I'm sorry, when the Falcons split

him out, he was like in the slot. The Jets, like, even though the Falcons, I'm sorry, are technically and like, I think they're in 12 or 22 personnel, the jets have to match with a safety. And he's on an island. So you know how you have a safety working the slot. Do you know how many safeties can play slot? I'd say there's like two in the league, three in the league that can actually legitimately do that, play man coverage. And then it's Kyle Pitts who's legitimately uncoverable, like by pretty much anybody. Like he really is.

He's already a mismatch at this. And he's like four game, five games into his rookie season. It's unbelievable. He's making these guys look like how he did in college. And it's like he's just figuring out and just getting better and better. But the fact that big post, the one with Cordero Patterson, they're in 13 personnel. Jets have to sort of, which is the coolest part.

Sort of. And the safeties are at eight yards because they go, oh, you know, they're trying to burn the clock. And they're in heavy personnel. So we're taught. This is how we're taught is that they're going to probably run like, you know, a duo or outside zone and we got to fill that run, get the ball back. And then nope, Kyle. Kyle Pitts is actually a legit 4-4 guy.

They can blow right past you. It's like that is what these freaks can do. They just unlock stuff because they make it so hard for defenses to work off tendencies and tee off on that. A guy I did not expect to talk about today or at any point over the first half of this season. Kyle Pitts is Florida teammate. Cadarius Tony is just amazing, I guess. I know the Giants lost, but I felt like the way he played today,

we had to mention it in some capacity. We've talked a ton about, we can't talk about Trayvon Diggs anymore or the Cowboys' Offense anymore. Cowboys are just good. Flat out, Cowboys are just good. And they are going to be a problem for people. Tony was the most exciting player in this game, though.

Absolutely. I was noticing this when we were talking about Daniel Jones on Friday. When he's playing on turf, when he stops the amount of rubber that slides into the air, it's like watching a superhero movie. It's unbelievable. I mean,

it, and the same thing happened again today. I mean, that ball where he runs a whip and somehow after cutting back outside to catch the whip, cuts back inside on a dime and then accelerates and almost scores a touchdown. He split two gaps on the same play.

Like he caught the ball, split the two defenders. And then later as he still has the ball in his hands, split another two defenders. Like, sick. It's wild. I mean,

what do you can do with the ball his hands is? while and then he catches a slot fade for like a huge chunk gain down the right sideline it don't know man i don't i don't i pretty much willing to say already that i was very wrong about this i mean this you did not like him either right no i was lower on it because it was like yeah you saw these flashes but it was like you know three times a game what does it look like what does this look like in an NFL situation i couldn't see NFL it was like oh yeah you're going to get yourself fired just trying to you know work this gadget guy yeah he's fun with the ball in his hands but he's got to get the ball and

his hands. And it's like, also in his route discipline is already much improved, which was like my big negative on him, which made sense. He bounced around positions. But I was like, yeah, but he's a senior. He has a lot of wraps already. And they've worked with him. You can tell. They were like, they're telling them to take his time on some of those routes. Or maybe he's figured that out. He's not in such a hurry to like, get out of his break. Like he's learning to that kind of Cole Beasley kind of, uh, Stefan Diggs way of kind of you take that little hesitation step before you start your route. And I think that's time. things up better, but he's like, he's got rare body control. I mean, rare balance, like,

which is saying something. And it's funny you said the superhero thing, like how all the spray coming up because I actually thought how he moves. Do you remember the, the Toby McGuire, uh, Spider-Man movies? Yes. And the first one, he's running across like the, as real bad CGI. He's jumping across, like the warehouses, like all the buildings. And he's like, who he's like, how he's like all bendy and it looks like gumby on that. That's how Tony looks when he runs. Like it looks like, like Toby McGuire, Spider-Man learning his powers and jumping across in bad CGI. I'm trying to figure out what it is. I'm like, it's like, it's like Gumby. Like he just moves in such a weird way. And he's also part of the surprisingly taller than you think club. Tony is. How's all is he?

He's all of six foot, like legitimately six foot and change. But he like moves and. Oh, yeah, it moves like he's five eight. Five eight. Five nine. A joystick. Yeah. It's unbelievable. He was a legit six foot almost 200 pounds, which is, I think makes it even more special how he's moving. But I admit, I was low on him, but if he plays like this, this consistency like this, it's like, holy shit, the sky is the limit for him because he does some rare things. I mean, just a lot of exciting moments from rookies today. Pits, Cadarious Tony, Rondell Moore, just all Rondell Moore does just make crazy plays. I mean, just the past catchers in this group did not look like the ones from last year.

Like we had a lot more prototypical. Just this is what a number one receiver in the NFL looks like. And we did not have that many of those guys this year, still just immediately making plays. It is a cool era for pass-catching talent because it comes in a bunch of different shapes and sizes. Yes. All right. Our next one here is actually a new segment that we're introducing tonight. It is time for the State Farm, surprisingly great performance of the week presented by State Farm.

The only way we could go with this was the Pittsburgh Steelers offense, man. I expected them to lay next Denver. I really did. I mean, the way that they were playing, I thought the Broncos defense. We know the Broncos defense is full of talent. And that just didn't happen today. You know, they played so much better than I expected. Yeah.

I know. She'll try to tell us on Friday. He did. He told us. He was like, hey, us against the world. He tried to tell us that. I know. But honestly, you can just see just even in the box score.

But it's like they on the, all those RPAs, one of the frustrations I've had with Big Ben, and I think all of us do is they run all these RPO's. And it's like, okay, that's fine. You're getting this little three, four yard game. fine. No one's really breaking tackles. Their quick out routes, if it's covered,

Big Ben's double clutch and triple clutch, and it doesn't create the place how he used to. And I think they just took the keys away from them and they just made those RPO's just run only options. I think that's exactly what it looked like. Because also I've never, I have seen the Steelers receivers just straight up blocking on run place as opposed to running bubbles and flats and outs.

And he was looking down at handoffs too. It wasn't where he was just putting it in the basket and pulling it back. He was like actually giving the, actually giving handoffs too. And yeah, they this, yeah, exactly.

It looked like a legitimate run game. It didn't look like what the, whatever the hell of Steelers have been doing for the last, you know, yearish or so. And like just little tweaks they did. Like they did like they, uh,

they went 12 personnel and spread it out. I thought that Gentry number 81 played a, had a really nice impact on the game. I know. He several different times in the run game. He came in as a blocking tight end and like made an impact. I thought he was a big part of what they, the success they had on the ground.

They went bully ball. Like it was. It looked like the Steelers. Like it did. And it was like go balls. Like they, like they, I've already mentioned before on the show is that like when you're playing these defenses, they're playing top down and trying to rally and tackle. That's what keeps happening to steal is why they can't create yak is because the defenders

know what they're trying to do. It's like get the ball quick in their hands, RPO's and and, you know, adjusted screens and all that. And then, okay, well, we don't have to play deep. We could just play and keep everything in front of us. How you beat that is you have to beat them over the top. You have to lean into the punch. gash him when they were trying to gash you.

And that's what they did today. He actually threw deep on some of these concepts. Like they, there were still some quick gamey type concepts, but it was hitting, you know, if it was stick, he was hitting the go ball on the outside.

And that just keeps defense as honest. And especially a defense like a Fangio one that's going to play in these softer shells that want to play top down. That's how you get them, not get them out of it, but make them honest. And yeah, I mean,

they did it. I'm still stunned that I'm here talking about the Steelers. offense. I thought it was going to be weeks before we had to worry about it again. And here we are. They look decent today. Well, I think that the formula that they followed, they ran the ball pretty well. And this blend of Rathsberger's contributions with the receiver's contributions, I think, can work for them in the right moments. Yeah. That first deep ball that he threw, Johnson is really beautiful. He so fake the outside release and then cut it back inside of four and he stacked them immediately.

So that was just one of those things. We're Forl's playing the outside release. And he's just like, you know what, fine. If you want to play me that far outside, I'm just going to cut it up then. That's high level route running. Not high level, but that's like a next step thing. If you seriously were doing that, it's like, ooh, like, that's good stuff. And he had him.

And then he got the PI later. And then the other side of it is. So that's just a, my guy's going to beat you down the field. I just have to put the ball in a spot where he can catch it. The Claypool huge play, that they win that with formation. Yep. They're in base because they were in, 12 personnel.

They had gentry split out to the left. Claypool motions across. Von Miller has to walk out with him because they were in base. So he runs just a little slant against Von Miller and then takes it 60 yards or whatever he did. That's just a big man that's fast making a play. And then a couple other times, he's still a guy who's been in a league for 15, 20 years. So he knows what he's seeing.

There's a third and three at one point. I want to say it was Simmons walked down because they, at a hard counter, whatever, Simmons walked down. They saw that he was coming. He hits Claypool on a slant because he knew he was the safety is going to vacate. And then on the Claypool touchdown, I can't tell in the moment that the camera cut to it is actually good timing.

He says something. He's like, Chase. And I can't, I couldn't tell exactly what he was saying to him. But there was kind of like an acknowledgement. And Claypool took it right between the safeties and he just hit him immediately over the top, right between the two, like the guys in the deep path. Yeah. So there was some sort of.

a communication there. Give me eyes or something. Something. Yeah. Something. And so there were a few of those moments today where it's like, all right, I'm still a guy who's seen everything in the league. If you give me the answers to the test, my physical skills is not deteriorate to the

point where I can't make these throws. So you trust your guys to win because they're really good receivers. You get the ball in their hands. And you have a couple things that are just decided for you before the play even happens. He tried to throw two interceptions in the red zone. He did. He tried to throw the ball. the Alex Johnson twice, but they did enough stuff today to overcome it.

To overcome that. Yeah, I know. But hey, another example of why you want defenses to treat tight ends like tight ends, right there, 12 personnel, they had a match in base, and it creates those advantages. Like, if you, that's, hey, Kyle Pitts, I'm telling you. It's like, you just, you just want to see him a buck a couple times. Just going to rope it back. But no, that's exactly.

They did enough. It's just so much better than the, what, whatever it was, whatever you want to call, that's been the first four weeks. It's kind of, it's nice to see actually something worth watching as opposed to what it was. All right. That was the State Farm, surprisingly great performance of the week. Because remember, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today.

Why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight-year-old? All right. Every single week, every single NFL Sunday, there's going to be some stuff that needs some explaining. And this week, the group that needs to do some explaining is the Panthers offense, which looked like a pretty good unit over the first couple weeks. We were talking about the Sam Darnold Assants, and it seems like they might have turned back into a pumpkin. Pretty rough day for the old Carolina Panthers offense. And when you can't win a game where your defense does everything they can to win it for you, with the opposing offense cannot move the ball for the majority of the game, that's a rough look in the NFL.

And that's exactly what happened to the Panthers today. Yeah, I'm really glad I wagered out of the Panthers today. That was just unbelievable. I was like, this game was unfolding. Perfect. This is awesome. Eagles can't move the ball. We're good.

Who cares if Donald doesn't look great? Like it was like, oh, no. But that was the thing. It was the O-line woes. We had mentioned before that the Panthers offense. It was like the O-line doesn't have a lot of talent. But at least they've like, you can tell they're well-coached. And you can tell that they do sound things, especially in the run game.

Today, the run game, yeah, they still did those sound things. But you could see where the talent. deficit showed up in the past, past protection. And, you know, Darnold doesn't help that all the time because he holds onto the ball and yada yada. That's kind of what he is. But sometimes they have a lot of free runners.

And I think that just kind of when you got a, I shouldn't say panicky, but yeah, I mean, he's been panicky. He needs the right circumstances. Everything's got on full perfect for. Yeah.

Like that's what, that's up until after the Houston game, that's even watching that game, he still has those dummy moments. He still has those misthrows. But if everything unfolds perfect for him, He's good. And he had a couple moments where it was okay, but then he had a whole lot of bad today.

Like it, again, I'm going to talk about stick because this concept, everybody runs it. And guess what? Joe Brady was a saints guy. Makes sense that Justin Herbert ran it too, right? With Joe Lombardi there. It's third down. I tweet this one. It's third down.

It goes outside in on stick out two by two. And like Donald stares at the flat and then tries a rally to the inside route. And then he scrambles, he ends up scrambling for the first down. Yeah, I remember that. Yep. Man, how you're, that's stick. Like, that's how much I mentioned that play is that everyone knows it. Everyone knows what the read is.

And so that tells me, even his pick on the, on the whole shot, the attempted whole shot, he predetermined that because there's no way. Exactly where he was gone before the play started. That corner sunk to 12 yards when he threw it. It's like no way. No way. No way. Like when Justin Herbert hit that whole shot, I should stop. Herbert's getting into Mahomes territory where I shouldn't compare what other quarterbacks do to what he does.

But like remember he hit it against Washington. He readjusted. He rallied. His arm strength is so good that he was able to hit the whole shot after he looked at the inside route. You can tell Darnold's like, I saw this on film. So screw it. I'm whipping it in there.

But that's mystic throw. That interception on there, that just speaks that he was predetermining stuff. And stuff did not unfold how he thought he was. And it was just a whole game of it. And I think every once in a while, right? Like when you throw an interception, it's a tip ball. It's a bad moment. All three of his today.

felt like I'm going right here no matter what. I want to say, and I can't know exactly without looking at the tape. But I think the other two were just cover three. And the corner just matched on the guy that he was across from, and I don't know why he decided to throw the ball. I mean, it made no sense. It was weird.

Yeah. It made no sense in either of the two. I'm curious what the actual reasoning was on both of them. Because the second one to slay, he just forces it to more for no reason. And then the third one was right to know. and it looked like a really similar situation. And the offensive line, 100%.

I mean, already not a good group coming into the season, right? Now, your left tackle's out. You do the thing that I never love. You move the right tackle you just paid a bunch of money to left tackle. And then you put a rookie in, a rookie third round pick at right tackle. It was a mess today. And you combine that with Javon Hargrave just being an absolute monster. Fletcher Cox had a few moments today.

You know, Josh's wet had a few moments today. It was all just an issue. But I think that was the concern, even when Darnal was playing well, right? If the circumstances start to deteriorate even a tiny bit, what does this end up looking like? I know that Christian McAfrey didn't play today. Who knows what sort of difference that would have made just in terms of the stuff they could have done with him as a receiver out of the backfield. He does provide just an outlet, not even just like individual checkdown option. provides an outlet just in terms of what the offense looks like.

An outlet on third and six if you're Joe Brady. It's not even just an outlet for Sam Darnel. Even with that in mind, this was the worst case scenario. This is exactly we didn't want to see. He had more like negative 0.4 EPA per play today. I mean, it's like that's really, really, really bad. It's basically as good as much as we just praised Tom Brady's performance and saying how rare that one was. this is like the negative side of that like because it's not even just the turnovers it's just

all those other missed opportunities like that's when they compound like that that's what makes offense is so hard you can have an interception like you can it's we never want to say oh it's fine to have an interception but it's like that means you're being aggressive and trying to push the ball sometimes but like what you're saying too robert is that like having those interceptions be on like just what like you know like what was that that's what's that's the scary signs that's like my home's having a couple of fluke ones tonight and tip ball. Okay, whatever. Okay, stuff happens. But it's like that's when you're watching these and having question marks of why you did that again. Why did you throw that again? And it's not just one of them. It's multiple

of those. That's the scary thing. And everything they've done that is positive. It's like they still did some of it today. But it was just they don't have any room for error. Uh, with that office line and just what Sam Darnold is, uh, just as a player. So that's when you don't create the points that you need. That's what this performance. slip like because it wasn't pretty. Talk about room for error. This team does not do it itself any favors of the decision making from the coaching staff either.

You punt on fourth and two from the 47-yard line. You pooch punt, a 21-yard pooch punt from your kicker. And he's done this multiple times now. It's just, we can't do this stuff anymore. I am not one of those crush guys every single time they don't go. I'm not, that's not how I do this. It's just, the game happens. to you, you're not feeling it, whatever.

I think that there are some decisions, even if they're not analytically correct, that I can explain a way. This team has done several things this year where they're making choices on Fort Down that actively are reasons you lose the game or actively hurts your team. And it's frustrating to watch when we have coaches so

far on the other side of this now. And you're just putting yourself at a market disadvantage. In this new climate with the way that decision making is working for a lot of coaches, if you're not giving yourself an edge, then it's noticeable. It's very obvious which coaches are not at this point.

Well, well, Staley knew what type of game he was in. He was in a barn burner, okay? And the rule didn't understand that, you know, this other quarterback, the other team's quarterback is not really moving the ball against you. It's like, it's okay to be aggressive. It's like, okay. That's like, you've got to create these points. But it is drawing going from that to that.

And I want to say that pooch pun, later, there was one moment. Oh, it was at the end of the second quarter. When they punted, the Eagles went down and kicked a field goal. They got three points there. There was only 47 seconds left in the half. And that may not seem like a big deal. It's until you win a rock,

until you lose a rock fight, those three points are really important. And that's exactly what happened today. All right. One other group that needs to do some explaining for itself is just kickers in general. I want to say there were 11 missed extra points. Is that what it was?

In the first two windows today? And one on Thursday. rough week for kickers highlighted by what happened in the Packers Bancel's game. Which was insane. We should have known it was going to be a weird weekend when the Thursday night game. I think the Rams kicker kicked like three kickoffs out of bounds. Like at least two of them. So it's like maybe that should have tipped us off that that we're in for a treat on Sunday.

But that that Bengals Packers game is one of the most bizarre games I've ever watched in my entire life. Like just I just did nothing offensively. The Jamar Chase's touchdown is just such a crazy, fluky play. The other Savage's armpit. But I will say, I was impressed by the Bengals defense. I thought that they played well again, tackled really well. Against that Packers team, you really need to make sure that they're not getting cheap yards because they'll take them all the time. They'll just flip out little RPO's to Adams.

They love just creating cheap yardage. And they'll take what you give them. And they did a really good job of taking that away today. I mean, Rogers had to go into hero mode to add them several different times for them to get what they needed to offensively. So I was impressed by what the Bengals did on defense. I was not impressed by some of the decisions at the end. When you play for a 57-yard field goal, you deserve to lose. Yeah.

Yeah. And both teams kind of going like, oh, we're playing for a field goal kind of thing. And also, like, I've never seen either. I just have to say this. I've never seen a ball hit the flag, the wind flag on top of a goalpost. I've never, I've never seen that. I've been to a million practices, games, everything. I've seen a million kicks, good kickers, bad kickers.

I've never seen that where actually hit the wind flag. Marshall Newhouse, he commented on it. He said he's like, that's a lifetime prop bet. Like, that's a life. That's a prop bet we all just hit finally for all of us just hit for the first time. But that's exactly what it is. It's that if you're playing for those field goals or playing for the harder thing.

Like, even last week. 57 yards. They didn't have to do that. It was third and five. You didn't have to try to get three yards to make it a 57 yard field goal. Why not? Oh, you know,

you don't like those chances. You don't want it all the 60 yard ones. Like, it's, I think the coaches see all these other kickers making those kicks. And they're like, oh, this is easy.

It's just gambler's policy. Like, that's all it is. But I honestly, how, where these kicks came in. Like Dan Campbell, I think just honestly was like, hey, I'm not even to bother with the extra point.

I'm going for two because I just saw what the Vikings kicker missed a field goal just five minutes ago. Like I think that's just what happened for a few of these teams too, going for it on fourth down. They're like, screw this. We're done with leaving up our games to the kickers missing these things. Well, that was a great moment for kickers with the Greg Joseph game winner. Did you realize that it was a negative EV play to go for two there at the end

with time left still? Like the math tells you not to do that. I love it. Like if your dad Campbell, who gives a shit? What do you have to lose in that moment? Yeah. And also it's like we're winning. Like you're literally winning.

You're literally up one point. I don't mind it. Even if the math that tells you don't have to do that, I don't mind it at all. Cousins had to make some couple of nails throws there. I mean, the one to The one is very not as impressive because it was more space, but a similar idea to the one that they hit to Adams against San Francisco. He hits that. He hits another one and they make the field goal. Kind of a monument.

Mementis kick for Mike Zimmer potentially. Like there's a chance if he misses that he's done. Yeah. I guess it's today now because it's 1 a.m. here. But there's a chance that I don't, maybe that's overstating it. I wouldn't have been shocked. If they lose to the Lions. Yeah.

Especially how they lost too. Yes. Talk about playing not to win. Like same thing. Like how they did their four minute drill trying to burn the clock at the end. You're not going to, your tone, you're running back, not to fumble, of course. but it's like when you play scared, that's kind of what happens.

You don't create the luck that you create the bad luck. And I mean, Zimmer and Cousin's reaction, I think they, do you see that? Yes. I think they're about to punch each other, like legitimately punch each other.

I have like excitement and fury and like, I don't know, like just I don't know what those two have, I've gone together. But I think it's a very weird relationship. I know. It's extremely weird relationship. I think they're in the manhole together and they just hate each other.

And I think they're just like, yeah, but we're in it together. on the Lions side of this. I think it's great. If you're a Lions fan, I understand that it's heartbreaking to lose like this and you just want to win a game.

Who cares? Yeah. Who cares? This season is for nothing. Play hard. You know, you know, it's so easy. I think in this moment, if you're getting blown out every single week,

it's an entirely different thing. But if you're the guys in the locker room, it's like, God, we're so close. they're stealing these games from us. I mean, it is so easy to preach that to that room where I think you easily keep that group. You keep that group engaged. We're so close, guys. We're so close.

Imagine the celebration they're going to have when they get their one only win of the season. It's going to be the greatest moment. I know. This is fine. If I were a Lions fan, I'd be like, you know what? This is great. We're in it. We're not embarrassing.

Let's go, because the Jags are going to push you. They're going to push you for that number one pick. and I don't know what they're going to do with it. I don't, the quarterback situation in college football seems like an epic disaster, but it's still better to have the number one pick than not having the number one pick. If there's a team that desperately needs one or whatever, maybe you trade down. This is, in my opinion, a good outcome for this year's Lions team. They're competitive.

I mean, they really are. You can tell those players play with fire. So obviously they're doing something right. And half the teams hurt. They're still in these games. that's okay it's totally and like you said the end results fine it's good process and good results i think that's what they have to go with i think that's that's the path they're going down i know but and honestly i do sidebar yeah the quarterback situation for the 2022 draft is pretty rough i've uh

i've taken my first glimpses of film this past week and uh that is a discussion for another time but i think some of these teams that maybe punted to next season about finding their quarterback in the future are going to be kicking themselves all right speaking quarterbacks let's put up to quarterback bat signal because this was a worthwhile day. Not a worthwhile day, but it was a worth, it's worth having a conversation about what happened with San Francisco today. Yes. So here we go with Trey Lance.

It was very jarring to see, I keep saying jarring today, but when I was seeing the ages, it really struck home, struck home like how young Trey Lance is. And seeing like the list was like youngest quarterbacks to make their first start. I think Tommy Maddox was the youngest. I think Sam Darnold was second. I guess Mike Vick was up there. And it was like, Trey Lance. And that really hit home.

I was like, man, he really is young. He does not have a lot of time under his belt, a lot of reps under his belt. And that's show today. I think his head was spinning a little bit. I don't think he's not a dummy. Plenty of proof he's not a dummy. It's just that I think he got to a real NFL game plan where stuff is situational. And you have a 510 new third down plays, 510 new red zone plays, 510 new second and long plays.

And I think on some of those, he was like, I think I know what this play is. But after that first read, I'm screw that. I'm hitting the button because he. He ran the ball 16 times. Yeah. And he looked good. He looks good running. Yeah, he looks great running.

But throwing right out, you can tell his head spinning. It's just the other signs other than the obvious misses is how he's missing. He's missing high and how the ball's coming out. Like if you notice on some, because he'll throw some balls and it's a beautiful spiral looks great. And then he has a lot of waiver balls right now. Really hard waiver balls. The one to Sunu, it honestly looked like the one that Sunu dropped that hit him right in the

hand. Probably broke his finger. It honestly looked like Sunu was trying to protect himself from the ball. He was trying to bat it down because it got on him so fast and it was so wobbly that he was frightened for his well-being. It's already hard enough to catch a hard throw. Yes. Now a wobbly spiral will break

your finger. Like, oh, that'll bust your finger right open. But all those signs, the wobbly ball, usually that happens, he's sailing those throws because he's overstriding. Something that you've seen Cam Newton do for years and years. And he got better as his career went along is because I think Lance right now on routes that he's guessing on, he has to see the route come open. And so what he's doing is compensating with his arm and he's over stride because he thinks he has to gun it in there. Josh out would do that a lot when he was young. John. Exactly. A lot of guys with big arms have gotten away with it for their

whole lives. And then all of a sudden they're like, oh shit, I have to anticipate now. Like I got a good arm. Who cares? No, you got to anticipate. That window closes a lot quicker in the NFL. And also, when you're guessing sometimes and trying to force things, and I was guilty to this when I played, is not enough of this arm strength, this is just me throwing, is squeezing the ball too hard. And when you squeeze the ball too hard, because you're, you're, he's, he's really gritty. You can see it. You can see it. Yeah. Yeah. And so that ball wavers out because it's not smoothly coming off your hand. It's a, it's a kind of a misconception when throwing a spiral. It's almost like you have to grip the ball less to let it really, really,

smooth like flip off your hand flip off that finger. So I think that's what it is because you could see the talent there because he had a couple throws like he had a stop throw. He won. I mean honestly it was one inch of room. He pinned it right on the receiver. Like he has an incredible arm talent, but that's because he knew that route.

He was like, I know I'm throwing this. I'm in rhythm. His mechanics look so much better on that. And then that's what it is. But it's, it's, you can tell why Shannon has keeps saying.

He was like, that's why he was the number two quarterback guys like because that's what it looked like. I think is just he got. some new plays today and then his head spinning. But, you know, there are some flashes there. It's just that it's tough when you got JJ Wall batting down, J.J. Watt batting down five-year throws, you know, that also stinks too because you're just taking too long to throw.

But I think it's just going to speed up because as the game went along, he started speeding up, but it's just, it was a rough first go for a first go in the NFL or first start for Trey lands. I'll say this. Today, even, I don't think it says a ton that he struggled. We should expect him to struggle. He's a rookie quarterback. I will say.

His struggles combined with, I don't think the offensive line played well. I mean, they struggled a lot in this game, which it kind of reset overall. The way that Lance played, the way the line played, the way that they have been playing, just reset the expectations we should have for the 49ers this year, which is kind of disappointing. Right? I mean, there are people, their over under was like 11. I mean, they were supposed to be a contender this year. They're not.

Like, this team as constructed, it's going to take a while for him to get there. if it takes a while for him to get there and the rest of their offense isn't as complete as we might have assumed coming into the year. I think we just have to recalibrate the way we talk about this team and the way we think about them, which I think kind of warrants a larger discussion. Yeah. What is this team? Like, where are they going? What's the path? If he's going to need all this time and, you know, they have got, Trent Williams is in his mid-30s, Alex Mack is in his mid-30s.

they have a defense that, you know, it has a lot of missing pieces now. I mean, it's just kind of something where I have to kind of step back and be like, all right, like, what do we really expect from this team over the next year? And then what does that mean for their overall trajectory? Because I felt like when they went up and got Lance in my mind right or wrong, it was like, oh, this is the missing piece. Yeah. When you trade this much for this guy, that's what this is.

This is the missing piece. And that may just be me overreacting and may just be a miscalculation about what that move is, but they don't have any resources anymore after making this trade. And if you're kind of sitting there and he takes a year and now we're going into next year for them to see how this all plays out, I don't know. It's just not where I expected to be with them five games into the season. I guess I'll say that. They're two and three.

They're playing the best division in football or one of them. I know Russell Wilson's hurt, but the Rams are still the Rams and the Cardinals are still the Cardinals. And now you're sitting there at two and three. I mean, I don't know where they go this year. And then if they kind of fall flat again, it's like, all right, where are we? Where are we with this era of the Niners if they have another like six and 12 season or something like that? Six and 11.

Yeah. And I think they're better than that. But I mean, it's again, we expect so much more of them. That can be a path. Like, that's the thing, that the fact that that path is even alive. Watching this offense and it's not like what they were running as far as play calls, it was like how hard it looked. it looks like when they were starting some of the like grab bag names that they've started the last few years you know these random third round or fourth rounder on drafted guys that call shanan

had tabs as this guy and it has a great start we all go oh my god he can coach anybody at quarterback like but like those games like that's how this game seemed and i kind of thought it would be a little more like yeah well training wheels will be on but there would be just a little more excitement to the offense yes exactly it felt it just felt like don't fuck up like Like that's what the offense felt like. And which is weird to see from a Shanahan offense, which is usually just really flowing. And it just like it just all pieces together real well. And it still felt like they were just kind of going like, okay, we kind of like this.

We kind of like this with him. All right, let's try both. All right. Well, that kind like they're still figuring out what they are. And that's week five now. And I get, yeah, you're not, you weren't planning on going with Trilence. I mean, I think they were. But then now they switched ideas during camp to go back to Jimmy G.

I don't know what they decided and all that. but it's just it's a strange like you said it's a strange place that they're in right now it's a letdown yeah it's just a letdown I mean it's just a letdown especially how the defense is playing and they kept them in this game and it's not like they got blown out in this game no and I think they play hard all the time I mean it's just be more feisty it's but they're this in I know like to me the possibility of lance and the promise of Lance is still there yeah but I just expected it to be so much more enticing so much more engaging so much more everything than it was today I mean it

This team is supposed to be more than this year, I guess is what I'll say. I should be more excited. Yes. Not today, my good man. I'm feeling saucy. Much to the dismay of Toby from Twitter, we're going to talk about the Bears a little bit. So I want to talk about the Bears running game just very briefly because this to me is like what secret sauce is about.

You watch a game. You have these little tiny one or two things that are the reason a team won. And Justin Fields was not explosive today. He was not electric today. The passing game was not creating big plays the same way it did against the Troy. But they still won this game because they racked up 139 yards on the ground on 34 carries. It's not a monster game, but the little tiny ways that this team has been able to sustain success on the ground. They were sixth in rushing DVOA coming into this game.

And that, to me, is a huge part of whatever this equation they're going to have to follow is with Justin Fields. They want him to throw the ball 20 times a game. And if you're going to do that, you need to play defense and you need to run the ball. And this is not a good offensive line. not like an offensive line full of stars, but the ways they created angles in the run game today and then some of the individual performances from some of those offensive linemen, this team can run the ball. And if they can run the ball this well, the way they have over the last couple weeks with their under center run game, which is a huge part of this Bill Laser formula that they're following,

then I think they have a chance to sustain something on offense and combine with the way that they're playing defense, they're going to be a tough out every single week. That's kind of what it feels like to me. And with Fields as the quarterback, it, that under center passing game off of it matches so much better. Exactly. Just, oh, it can, like we talk about paths, but you can see what the upside of all doing that is. And really the run today that stood out to them to me was they, they ran a little bit of everything, but they was doing a inside zone or weak zone out of like, especially out hip formations, but they did out different personnel groupings. And I, I, this run the concept is, I mean, everybody runs. It's, day one install play. And there's outside zone, which is towards the tight end usually. You can aim outside without a tight end, but it's a little harder and it's more situational. But then the inside zone or weak zone is generally away from the tight end to the open side, away from the tight end.

And even how the play sounds, like if I'm in a right formation, my tight end sort of right, I'm running this to the left, this play more often than not ends up becoming almost like a cutback, get north play for the running back. Consistently today. Consistently. And you're seeing more and more. teams running it this year. Not so much today with the Raiders,

because Raiders are running single high, but there's more too high defenses, this run becomes more available. And it just because where the safety is and the number count for the line, it's just that's what you're going to see more and more and more of it. But how the Bears got to it, Raiders are a single high team.

Gus Bradley is a Seahawks kind of guy. They do the little jet motion that kind of blocks the guy without blocking them. Like that's, it's just taking them out of the box count. And we're in this weak side zone. the runnerback is able to kind of like make the O line right. That's exactly right. And it limits like you said that if you have a limited O line or a limited talent up front,

this helps them because they don't all have to win. They more or less they were going to wad it up basically in the zone blocking. They might not get to the second level. They might not get a great clean block where we all tweet it the next day. Oh, look at Zach Martin. Look at those guys. But they wotted up and the runback cuts back behind it with the linebackers flowing way too hard. And they just get north on Thursday night.

I know we're talking about the bears, but Thursday night the Rams hit inside zone against the Seahawks like 15 times. Like they just kept doing the same thing. Jamal Adams kept burying himself and they just hit north right behind it. And that's what this does. It's blocking guys with lesser talent and make in the runoffbacks. And if they're hitting the whole right and they're just getting north and just taking what the defense is giving them, it can lead to a good run game like this. And the best part about it, the best play action concepts come off of weak side zone play action. That's all that hip slot stuff we've talked about.

it's faking weak zone, weak side zone. So you can start seeing where this can all tie in together. And it's good stuff. It really is. And the runoffacks are running really hard today. It looks good. Herbert looks really good. Does he?

I mean, he is useful. And Williams has a lot of juice to him. And I know Montgomery didn't play. And that's why it's impressive. They can still sustain this. What you said is exactly why this is interesting to me. Because it allows you to sustain success on the ground with lesser talent. I thought they did an awesome job climbing to the second level today.

Yep. But in order to leave those double team, quickly, you need a run scheme that's going to allow your center, who's an undrafted player, who's not going to knock a lot of people around, or whatever he does, it doesn't matter. He needs to just be able to get a hand on a guy. It's a wash. Wherever he goes, that's right. Because that's, in order to do that and get to the second level so quickly, that's what you need.

And that's exactly what they had today. And then you combine that with just a few little scatter plays where they create angles. They had bars, Alex bars, their sex offensive linemen, played a ton today. There was a play where he went in motion as an hback. They didn't change the strength of the defense. They sent Mooney back in motion the other way in jet motion, ran the nickel out. They had numbers to that side. They cave the left side down. Williams comes around. That's just good football. And that's just the type of angles and numbers in the run game that they don't typically create or didn't typically create when they didn't have this we're going to line up and run the ball

aspect to their offense. That's not the most important thing to have as an NFL offense in 2021, but when you need to insulate your quarterback and when you need to just manufacture offense, this is a good way to do it. And they did a couple different times. Daniels got to the second level several different times today and just was crushing people. I mean, the linebacker jumped in the air at one point and he finished him like a wrestling, finishing move.

And that was like the highlight play. but there were plenty of other quieter plays. Also, Jason Peters has been really good in the run game. You had a great game today. There was a play where they ran a delayed handoff. He threw the defensive end by and then made a block on the corner. He blocked two guys on one play. He turned around, right?

And you like loop around. He got a second guy, right? Yep. He's had some very publicly bad moments, but he's been really good in the run game. He's made like splashy plays in the run game multiple times this year. And like you said, the bad. Backside tight end is a huge part of this. Colquemette several different times today.

Making big blocks on the backside. They cut it back. And these aren't monster gains. These are seven-yard gains. But when you can consistently do this and score two touchdowns based on essentially just your running game and your defense doesn't let any points up, that's the method for this team. We're going to take shots all play action.

We're going to run the ball and we're going to play defense. And I thought that the running game, again, it's not the greatest, most gaudy numbers in the world, but the little things they did today, it's exactly what you're going to said. They are creating this running game to win with lesser talent. Today, both at running back and along the offensive line, and it worked for them. All right. Last thing we got today, we got to decide who's got the belt. You know what happens when you interrupt Chris Jericho?

You know what happens? Daffy, Drifter, Dandy. You just made the list. Finally got Jericho. That's awesome. It's going to be fun every single week. All right. Every week, we're going to pick. The guy that was just a little cut above that was the guy that week in the NFL.

I think we got to give out a tag team champion this week. I think we're going to give it to Brandon Staley and Justin Herbert. Because Herbert made the throws, but Brandon Staley made the decisions. I think that you have to reward a guy for every single time the Chargers went for on 4th down, all the different times. He gave his team a chance to win today. And it happened a bunch of different times, and Justin Herbert took advantage of it. They owned today because that was a pretty big win.

Yeah, Browns are a good team. Like the Chargers just be a good team. And that's, that's why it's easy to give these guys the belt is we, we sometimes maybe over exaggerate like, oh, made that one decision by the coach just won them the game. But it truly was like in a game like this, that was a true barn burner, a true haymaker for haymaker type game. You have to create points somehow, turnovers or the coach is doing something like this and being aggressive or is it a fake punt or is it going for it on fourth down?

Like there's just ways to do it that the coach can. affect the game. Brands Daly affected the game without playing in between the lines, he affected the game in a positive way for his team. It also helps when you have a quarterback like number 10 who is honestly, you mentioned it before. It's like he, yeah, obviously one of the better quarterbacks, but it's like he, every week, it's just like, it's just like, I feel like he just passes another guy, like as far as how I look at him in the week. And it's sometimes the stats aren't there, but what he does every single play, the stats were there today. But what he does, every single play is just good quarterback play. He's a freak of nature, but he's also got a sharp

brain, which is like, he plays like a 10-year vet at times. And he's in his second year. He's started, you know, like 18 games, 20 games. You know, it's ridiculous. And on top of that, he can also throw out 30 yards flat-footed and then also scramble and outrun angles in the red zone. Like, yeah, just normal stuff that every quarterback can do. But they're the tag team champs this week. They were phenomenal performance from the Chargers. I believe I got him sixth in our quarterbacks of the future draft that we did this spring. I'm pretty sure I got him sixth on a rookie contract for the next two years. My team might be looking.

Decks doing okay. Decks doing okay. But I feel pretty good. I feel pretty good about my rookie quarterback. Rookie contract Justin Herbert that I get for three more years on his rookie deal. It's great. This is what we know for. I mean, that team is fun.

I think the Browns are going to be fun. It was a good day for the non-churchase. chief contenders in the aFC. I mean, it was one of those days where they reminded us who they were. And these are the teams

that we expected to be really good at the beginning of the year and they look really damn good. Buffalo, Cleveland, the Chargers. It's going to be a fun second,

the last two-thirds of the season. That's for sure. All right. If you guys are listening tomorrow on Monday, before 1 p.m. Eastern, please get your questions in

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The email is Athletic Football Show at gmail.com. Also, please listen to our fantasy shows, best on the board and the Athletic Fantasy Football podcast. With that, I'm going to get some sleep wearing down here. It's 120 in the morning. We did it. Appreciate everyone who stuck around for this. If you guys didn't, that's okay.

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Everything you need to recap what was a wild week five in the NFL. I think it was week five. We're on hour 16 here. You should go check it out at the athletic. At least we know we can do a 24-hour marathon. Like, you know, we're just like for charity or something like that. It's like we might be in the cards. This is our training.

It's good. It was a long day. It was a fun day. Appreciate you, buddy. Appreciate you guys for sticking around. Everyone that stayed up, the seven of you that are still around. Thank you very much for the time. We'll talk to you guys soon.

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