The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Breaking down the pass catchers in the 2024 NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

In their second position breakdown of the talent pool in this year’s NFL draft class, Robert Mays, Nate Tice and Dane Brugler take a hard look at this year’s crop of pass catchers - from the big name prospects like Marvin Harrison Jr. and Brock Bowers to those teams might bet on deeper into the draft.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show on top for you guys today. We're digging into the past catchers in the 2024 draft. It is a marquee group of names, some of the biggest stars in this class. And to help me do that, two of the best draft analysts that I know. First of all, it's my good friend.

Nate Tyson, Nate, how you doing, man? Good. I got analysts this time, not draft geek. So that's good. You guys are moving on up in the world. Moving on up. Yeah, not expert yet. Just analyst.

Just guy with an internet connection. That's where a draft guy with an internet connection. I am doing very, very well. Excited for this one. This is a lot juicier pass catcher, wide receiver podcast than it was last year. So cannot wait to dive in. Even as one of the world's biggest day, Flowers fans, I have to agree with you on that. Also joining us today to dig into this group.

It is our draft expert at the Athletic, the one, the only. Dan Bruegler. Dan, how you doing, man? I'm good. I turned in the beast this morning to the design team. So it's equal parts relief and anxiety about not flip-flopping my number 15 and number 16 corners in my rankings. So I just have to learn to let go and trust my instinct and reasoning for why I did what I did. But look, you know, the design team may do a great job.

They're going to have this a few days. And then we're officially on schedule for next Wednesday for the draft guide to come out. So I cannot wait to share it with everybody. So please, if you guys have not checked out the beast in years past, it is truly an indispensable product around this time of year. It is the most exhaustive draft guide that you could ever hope to buy, hope to engage with if you care about the NFL draft. How many players, Dane, are in the draft guide overall? 1,967. NFL verified testing information for all those players.

And then full reports on just over 400. So plenty of information. to dive into. 400 guys. Put a perspective what Dane does. He's a one-man scouting department. NFL teams have area scouts

for each area of schools to just do what Dane is doing. And that's just the information gathering and everything. Dane is actually evaluating these guys on top of it.

So, yeah, one-man scouting department, Dane Bruegler. April 10th, please check that out at the athletic. I'm telling you, there is nothing like it

in this industry. And Dane does a phenomenal job. The other bit of housekeeping, that we need to hit on. We are coming to you guys live from Detroit on nights one and two of the draft this year on YouTube. Me, Dane, Nate, some special guests. We got some cool bells and whistles on the way.

So like last year, like we did the year before, not something you can attend. I'm sorry if that was unclear in the way that I was presenting it on the internet over the course of the last few days, but a live draft show that we will be doing that you can watch on YouTube. So we'll be with you guys for every,

single pick of the first three rounds. We'll be doing a little bit of stuff afterwards, a little bit of stuff beforehand. So just please be on the lookout for that. We'll have more information in terms of start times and when we're going to actually go live. But just mark your calendars that we will be coming to you, the athletic football show. It's our fourth edition of the live draft show, Nate? Yeah.

Right? Yeah. I think so. Fourth. And this is going to be the best one that we've done. So I can confidently say that because we're, as Nate is moving on out from Geese, to analysts. We are moving on up in the quality of production that we're going to be able to pull off. So a test with two phones. I'll never forget the Justin Fields pick and your phone was

vibrating as it's recording. So it was just like moving on the state. My phone died halfway through the broadcast because I got so many text messages that eventually it just melted over the course of the show. We've come a long, long way. The Fat Boy Slim has a song about this. All right, we're going to dig into the past catchers today, and we're going to do some categories in the second half of this show so we can hit a bunch of different guys in this class. Unlike the quarterbacks, obviously, the guys drafted in routes, three, rounds, four. These are potential starters, they're potential stars.

You know, the Pukukukua's of the world, those happen every single year. So we want to hit a bunch of different names to you guys to keep an eye on, but this class isn't just deep. It has real star power at the top. I mean, arguably, the best group of top-end receivers that we've seen come through the draft in several years. And that starts with Marvin Harrison Jr. for most people who are doing this from Ohio State.

Nate, I want to start with you here just because there's been a lot of talk about how to stack these top guys recently. There's been some buzz about whether neighbors should be above Harrison, how many teams have that. And I think the gap is closed for some people as that process has gone along. You've been pretty rock solid the whole time, though, in your belief that Marvin Harrison Jr. is the best wide receiver in this draft. What separates him from the rest of this group, in your opinion?

true cleanliness in a in a with with size and athletic traits that you want uh he has a whole total package to me of not only having of course almost six four oh 205 200 10 pound range uh length isn't overwhelming you know he's just kind of average length but you don't see technicians like this in this frame especially coming out of college especially with production so he has production, underlying production as well. So you have the box score stats with a terrible situation last year as far as quarterback play, which we can get into, but also

underlying production as far as advanced stats, first downs per route run, yards per route run, those types of things. And then on top of it, a 301 level route runner at his size with hands, with ball skills, with strength, and he did not test, but you can see him

on film and just, again, this is the eye test alert, but it stacks up is him taking the top off the defense. stacking on top of corners, being able to run true post-droughts down the field, and come away with the ball. His ball skills are great. It's not a true dunk on you guy, but his ability to adjust for balls and come down with them strong is just, it's truly exceptional. So to me, he's the total package. Does he not, he might not have that elite Randy Moss speed, but not a lot of people do. And he might not have, you know, some other things that like, okay, oh, Calvin Johnson, he's not 230 pounds doing. all this. But man, there's not a lot of guys

that are this clean at that size with production already that I think you just scream into the league and just be a productive guy. Even as a draft Moonlighter, Dane, he's a name that I've heard for years. Somebody who doesn't watch a lot of college football, you'd have to actively been trying to avoid it to not

hear about what type of prospect he is. Have you ever wavered? Has there ever been any moment over the last couple years where you've had doubts about whether he belonged in the top five overall players in this class. No, and I took heat because going back to a year ago before last year's draft, I said this would be the easy wide receiver won if he were draft eligible.

And I got a lot of pushback on that. And then I think over time, people are like, okay, yeah, this guy's legit. And the funny thing is. Who did they think should have been? Well, this was before the 2022 season. So he had like, he had like 10 catches. So like, but those, the 10 catches he made were like, okay, this guy's a dude. And I think a lot of people were programmed that Jackson Smith and Jigba,

Mecca, were even better receivers on his own team. I mean, Ohio State receiving debt charts just like Russian nesting dolls. It's like one, okay, another, another. Like, it's just, it's crazy. But the funny thing is with Harrison, he, he, wasn't really supposed to be this guy. He was a four-star recruit, so I'm not saying he came out of nowhere, but he was the 16th overall recruit, ranked recruit in Ohio State's 2021 class. And then obviously people knew his name, being the son of a Hall of Famer, but he wasn't being talked

about as the guy as a freshman. First time I ever put eyes on him was that Rose Bowl against Utah when Smith and Jigba, C.J. Stroud both went off. But that was also his first start because Olave, at Wilson, they opted out, get ready for the draft. And Harrison had three touchdowns in that game. And it was immediately when you watched him, it was like, all right, this guy is different. And so this past year, I went down to Columbus in October. I wanted to see him in person. I was like, okay, yeah, the tape is amazing. This is a clear top five player in the draft, maybe the number one overall player. I want to get eyes on him, my own eyes on him, just to see if, make sure I'm not lying to myself. And I was,

was mentally preparing to have my expectations tempered because the tape was just that good. The hype was so high. But watching him in warmups from the sideline, I was pretty odd. I was like, okay, yeah, everything that Nate said about him as an athlete at that size. I mean, he's doing what a lot of smaller athletes can do, but in a bigger body. And watching that game throughout the game, the first quarter, Kyle McCord, he couldn't find him. Maryland's winning. And then in the second quarter, it was like Ryan Day started calling the screw it,

just find number 18 plays. And it was over right away. It was over. And Harrison was the offense. And so I think what stands out the most for me with him is just the athletic dexterity for a guy that 6-3-2-10. And it's both before the catch and then during the catch. Before the catch, explosive off the line, very controlled.

His pacing, his route construction is awesome. and I think that's above all what you love about him is he has the athletic gifts to beat college corners with just quickness and speed, but he's doing complex stuff out there, exactly what Nate was saying, the body fakes, the stem angles. He has said that he does not enjoy running fades or goes. He doesn't like running those routes because, you know, he doesn't want to run routes where he's just bigger and faster. He wants to show off the craftiness. He wants to show off how good of a route, or he is. So that's what he wants to do as a receiver. And that's honestly really refreshing. So that's before the catch. And then at the catch, he might be even better. It's that rare ability to slow down the ball with his eyes. That's something that Larry Fitzgerald could do. Chris Carter could do it. I think Harrison has it. His tracking, his adjustment skills,

they're uncanny. So then and throwing the catch radius, I just, and there's no other receiver in this class that has caught more footballs and practice. He actually is a partner with a state of the art or the company that made the state of the art jugs machine and he uses it religiously every single day. So it's just the total package of what I certainly say the total package because there are, I wish he was a little more physical after the catch isn't great. He's not a make you miss type of guy. So I won't say the total package. But in terms of getting open and catching the football, he's got everything you want. This guy plays quarterback real well.

He's not just an athlete. Marvin Harrison plays receiver really well. He is a wide receiver technician. So your phrase, dexterity, that is perfect day. Feet dexterity, his foot tightness and quickness and bounce. And then the hand-eye coordination. That's such a great way to put it. Seeing it in person, just watching him warm up, I was blown away.

I mean, just the ankle flexion, the way his body moved, it's, the, the, body control is different. It's just different than watching other receivers. There's, there's no rigidness, no stiffness at all. It's, it's really impressive to watch. What's really encouraging is that as we're scouting these receivers in modern-day college football, there's so many guys who are spending a ton of time in the slot or a ton of time off the ball or we don't have to worry about them going against press coverage. Marvin Harrison's sitting out there as the ex-receiver on like 80% of his snaps, just doing exactly what he's going to be asked to do in the NFL as a number one receiver. There's no imagination necessary. The first game I watched of his was the Penn State game

from last year. And what he did to that poor slot corner from Penn State, I just, that poor kid, one or two times, he just snapped him off on the release and then at the top of the route, and I, like, did a spit take with no water in my mouth. I was just, he just moves in a different way. But like Dane said, if I had to play Devils Advocate in two areas, Nate, these are the two places I'd go. One, There just isn't much after the catch. That's not what he is. That's not what he does. And the other thing that I was a little surprised by it, and I guess I shouldn't be because

this is what 6, 3, 2, 10 looks like. He's a little thinner than I thought he was. I thought he was just going to be more. I just imagine like Julio Jones in my mind, just as these guys who were like, no doubt about it, top five receivers. And I know he's an all-timer. But the way the people had talked about him, I kind of had that. And when I turned down the tape, I was like, oh, he's a little skinnier than I thought he

was going to be. But those are truly like the only two things if I was going to try to put a negative spin on it that I could land on. After the catch stuff, I've, yeah, because he's a splitter. You'll never see him juky guy. But, and which is fine. It's kind of like, all right, he's catching a ball 15 yards down the field anyways, you know, 20 yards down the field.

But I had a cut up and I think I tweeted it of like a lot of yards after the catch stuff he did underneath bubbles and crossers and everything. And that's where the body control shows up because he's really good. And this is where I think my best comparison for him for a modern player is he's like a bigger Devante Smith. where it's that that body control where they can weave in and out of guys without jukeing.

And all of a sudden they're like, oh, they just ate up six yards there and I'd even realize. And that he grew on me more and more where it's like he can get those underneath yards pretty simple, but he's not going to be that, holy crap highlight machine,

Odell Beckham, crossing a guy up, you know, something like that or any of those types of guys, but it's just more of simple yards. And it kind of grew on me again as I studied them even more. Dane,

what do you think the downside cases? Because it's so easy with guys like this just be like, guy is going to be an all pro every single year, pick him in the top five, never worry about it again. If we're trying to explore the other door, what does that look like for you? I think, you know, what we were talking about with the size and just overall physicality, you know, he's just got that lean muscular body type. Can he power through an NFL jam consistently?

Can he do that? And there are times where maybe he coasts a little bit because he is not expecting the ball. We saw in the first quarter in the Michigan tape that there was an interception where he needs to do a better job of finishing the route, breaking up that play so it's not an interception. So I think, and then the other area that I think is, I think those are nitpicks. One area where I think is a true weakness is his blocking. His perimeter blocking needs to be better. But again, yeah, we're talking about things that are not going to prevent him from being a high level player. I didn't bring it up with him with blocking.

it's because he does so much that it's like whatever. Like, you know, that it usually, once we get to the tweener guys and middle round guys, that's where that gets highlighted. So that I'm with Dane, it's like, yeah, blocking is not his favorite thing to do. Oh, the Michigan game, he did block because it's the whole rivalry thing. And then there's just after, but every other game, you watch other games. Yes, it's kind of a non-factor. So I'm with you on that.

I think the press thing and then getting through NFL jams at the top of routes sometimes, he could get a little bit stuck because he's not super, super strong against man. coverage. That was the only other thing where I'm like, yeah, if I had to be overly critical, that's probably where I would land. But I think a bigger Devante Smith is a really good one, Nate. Did you have a higher end comp for him, Dane, if you were trying to project it in a positive way? I think he's a leaner Larry Fitzgerald. That's kind of my comp for him. And again, that's a lofty comp. We're talking about a future Hall of Famer there. But that the being able to slow down the ball with his eyes, the movements, a lot of it, I think there are a lot of

parallels there. I even threw it a little, a little art monk in there. Yeah. Yeah. Going back. The guy from my football cards. Yeah. Yeah. But just that tall, smooth guy that just is a technician at his craft as opposed to like an overwhelming force of nature. It stood out to me that Brian Hartline, the receiver coach from Ohio State that, you know, invented the receiver position, if you ask him, is he, someone asked him. I think it was a barstool thing was. was greater Ohio state receivers. Like, who, who'd you stack up as NFL guys? Hard one playing the league. He has experience with this. And before he even started, like, before he he was like, oh, Alavi or anything like that, right away, he was like, well, Harrison Jr. looks the tied, plays the type. He's won. And then he got into the conversation. And that was when Harrison Jr. was not entering the NFL. He was going to be entering his last year. That stood out to me. That's a list with Terry McCorn, Chris Alave, Garrett Wilson, JASN, Jackson

Smith, and Jigba. And there's others. I'm probably just even skipping. raft top my head. And he just went, without even like blinking, goes, oh, Marvin, Harry, Marvin's number one. He's not even a part of this conversation. No, no, no. There's him and there's everybody else. Now we can start the discussion. That's all you need to know. Always stuck out with me was that that was his, that was the way he framed those guys. So you mentioned Nate, you know, this isn't a guy that with the ball in his hands or when you watch him, it just feels like a force of nature. There is a guy in this draft who I think you could make that argument for. And Dane, you brought this up several times. You've been talking about

this for months, that there are NFL teams that have. have Malik neighbors from LSU as their number one guy over Marvin Harrison. Even if you don't, what do you think is driving that from the NFL side? I think it just really boils down to this guy doesn't have limitations. You can nitpick average size, average strength, but he's so dynamic before and after the catch. Nobody in college football had more catches of 20 plus yards last year than neighbors. and he was consistent with it. He had one in every single game.

So, you know, he has that gliding acceleration on the field where it just looks like he's, he has a different gear than everybody else. And obviously seven on seven has been around for a while. But Neighbors is the first guy that I can remember watching and thinking, oh, I guarantee this guy learned how to separate win at the catch point by playing seven on seven. Just his play style. It just made a ton of sense.

That LSU offense, too, it's just so spread out. the space that they gave him, you can just see it translate immediately. Even when he's on a crosser and get the angle, he looks like he's trying not to get his flag pulled. Seriously, it looks like he's playing seven on seven. Once you said that, my brain went, boom, like, yeah. Exactly. And so, and then he tests four, three, eight in the 40, 42 inch vert. And it's like, okay, yeah, that translate.

I get that. So I really think that Marvin Harrison Jr. has always been wide receiver one and neighbors number two. but Neighbors has always been a top five guy for me. And I think if you go back to last year's draft or the year before, he would have been my number one overall player in either of the last two drafts. This year it just happens at Caleb's one and Marvin's two for me. But I really do feel like this guy is special. And there's a lot of love throughout the league because, again, he just checks the boxes.

Explosive plays, check. High-end traits, check. Oh, you want production? Okay, he led the SEC and catches last year and the year before, two straight years. LSU, they've produced some pretty good receivers over the years, right? Okay, nobody in school history has more catches or receiving yards than the league neighbors. So again, I just don't see many limitations in his game. He can accelerate, decelerate on command.

He's always available with his catch point skills. There's so much to like with the player. One of the things that's surprising to me, again, when you hear the narrative about these guys and him being kind of deemed this just explosive play guy, I expected to see somebody that was a little bit smaller than he is. And the other thing that stuck out to me is just how strong he can be in some of these moments. I mean, there was some, I think it was against Alabama. So whether it was against Terry and Arnold or McKinstry, I can't remember.

But he's making plays like on hitches and combats with guys draped all over him, making contested catches. And I just didn't expect that to be a club in his bag when all I had heard previously was how explosive and fast he was. You stack him next to Jamar Chase. they're like identical. The size, the testing. I mean, it's kind of crazy. And I mean, I think when you think of Jamar Chase, you think of a guy that is going to break that first tackle, is going to power through it.

And then, you know, go make, pick up yards after the catch. And Malik Neighbors is more make you miss. But yeah, he has some of that body strength in him as well. And it's also, I want to point out, one of the youngest players in this draft. He will not turn 21 until, I think, July. So it's a situation where he's. his body's still maturing. I mean, he's going to continue to get better and better as he continue to get older.

Is there an outcome or a path where you don't see him becoming like a high level receiver in the league? It's just the, if he can consistently win as a true outside guy. And that's it. If he has to be a move guy or a slot guy, I'm a little more lenient on that nowadays because of how coaches use guys. And so that's why these are types of guys that sometimes I used to ding in the past a little bit because of some of the things. And I've softened bigly on this. You've learned your Jamar Chase lesson. I've learned

my majority of Jamar Chase. I've learned a little bit even Garrett Wilson and Iyuk a little bit. Guys that I had some negatives on that maybe did a little too much weight in my head. Sometimes I should just listen to Dane. And it's but I have softened in, neighbors and this is why I want to get across

is anyone that's listening to show kind of knows my type. Neighbors usually isn't my type, but this guy is number six on my big board, number seven on my big board. So it's easy. Like this guy is an easy. I see the star path easily for this guy because everything Dane just laid it up. He's in a walking, talking, explosive play machine. And the really the highlights, even outside the yak stuff is the stuff on the sideline, like where his ball skills, the late hands, which is a hard thing for guys to do. And that's not, that's not what his game is supposed to

be. So the fact that he can sprinkle that in is like, that's great because you never know how in the NFL, how a guy's going to get used. So. for me, the limitation that I want to see, I've softened a little bit because he's lined up in a slot over half his time in college. That was mostly because of his first year. But a little bit this year is over half. It's just consistently winning from the outside. But I do think he's shown it. Like when I watch his outside snaps, he's winning against press.

He's winning on vertical route tree, all those stops and hitches that they ran. So it's not as concerning. It's just that has to be proven, you know, more consistently, I guess. I really like that because that's how I felt when I was watching him. It's like, this wasn't supposed to be your game. I didn't know you knew how to do that. And there are so many layers when you watch him where that's kind of the thought that you have coming away from it. Yeah.

It's the NFL, every team right now is really since history, since offensive football started, chasing explosive place. And right now it's harder than ever to get one. So you need a guy that can create one. And neighbors can create one. And that is his gift. And that's why he is like Dane said, he's not my number one guy. I have him battling with the next guy we're going to talk about it as my kind of two, but they've gone back and forth. Depends on the week.

Depends on what I had for breakfast that morning. But it's like really when I watch him, it's like, that is why you take this guy because he can take a two-yard catch and turn into a touchdown. And that is so valuable right now. 39% of his catches this year went for 20 plus yards. That's crazy. It's insane. Yeah. His, yeah.

And like even the underlying stats, like so like explosive routes or explosive plays per route for first downs per route, yards per route, run. Those are kind of three I always look at. He has the same first downs per route as Marvin Harrison Jr. And yards per route run, Marvin Harrison Jr. is 3.1. Neighbors is 3.0. This is for career. I think this year he led college football. He led. He was way up there.

I like looking at a kind of career, just kind of different situations, different, all that kind of stuff and all that. But the fact that... You didn't want Marvin Harrison Jr. to have to pay the Kyle McCord tax when you were stacking up these stats. You could be honest with Matt. You can be honest. Having said that, Neighbors' game is explosive plays. Not supposedly Harrison Jr.'

Marvin Harrison Jr.'s explosive or explosive plays for rounds, 8%. Number three all time. Neighbors is 6.9%. Harrison Jr., more explosive according to the stats. I don't know. I don't know. No, but it's...

All right. You're done with your Marvin Harrison Jr. propaganda. The third guy that you mentioned, Dan, is Roma Dunezay. And here's what I wanted to ask you about a Dunezai. If I told you five years from now that Roma Adunzee ended up being the best receiver from this class. What would you say the chances of that are how surprised you would be if that ended up being the case? I think I would say it like this.

There's no such thing as I can't miss in the NFL draft. The word shouldn't be mentioned. But I think the best compliment I can give Adunze is I have a hard time fathoming a path, barring injury, where he's not a really productive NFL player. I just, I have a hard time believing it's possible. again, barring injuries. He's 6-3, 212 pounds. He has speed, short area burst. He's a fluid route runner. And to his credit, he has made a lot of adjustments between the 2022 season, 2022 season, most importantly, I think the separation is better, but also the biggest

difference has just been playing through contact. His focused concentration on those 50-50 balls is a major difference compared to what the guy I saw the summer and the guy I watched this year because he was good on the 2022 tape. I mean, he made my preseason the summer top 50, liked him, but it wasn't until this year that he made some adjustments and it was like, all right, yeah, this guy can do whatever he wants. I mean, whatever you want him to do, he can go out and do it. And so this is a player that caught 92 balls this year. And there weren't a ton of gimmies. I mean, he is bailing out Michael Pennix quite a few times. And I'm, that's the last time I'll say that. I know. But like, the percentage of the catches he made this year, a lot of them, 80.4% were first downs or touchdowns. Anything over 70% is awesome. If you're over 80%, you're impacting the game in a big, big way. So yeah, he's he's the total package. Yeah. I think in most drafts, this is your wide receiver one easily. It just happens to be in a special class with Harrison and neighbors.

But there's still some in the league that prefer him. It's just a special one, two, three. And this guy deserves to be mentioned as part of that group. I understand preferring him just because I think, again, like you mentioned, there's no safe guy. But I would feel so good turning in the cart. I would just feel so good about what I added to my team. And the fact that you said that the contested catch stuff and playing through contact stuff

was new this year, that's surprising to me just because that might have been the thing that stood out the most in watching him. I mean, the play he made against Oregon at the end of the game is just the most F you dunk on you play. And then Nate, one of the things we've been talking about with him is I'm so impressed about the way he catches the ball away from his frame. Like his ability to just pluck the ball is so natural. So the fact that he's improving in some of those areas

on top of the separation skills, that's really, really encouraging. It is. Actually, shoot, what Dane just said, like, you know, there's no can't miss prospect or anything. I even wrote up when I was kind of my extended write-up on dudes A was my highest compliment that usually for a receiver, because I think they are so scheme and situation dependent, he is a scheme and situation independent or proof of a receiver prospect I probably have created. What makes you say that? How would you define that? It's because of any offense I could picture him in, he can line up inside, he can line up outside.

He can attack vertically. He can attack intermediate. He can attack short. He can create yards after. catch on screens. And that's actually the underrated thing that where my Godwin comparisons have come in with him, I think he's a supercharged Chris Godwin, is that it's those simple yards he can create after the catch.

He's got that, like Dan said, he's got just that fluid movement where he can just weave in it out, get those eight yards underneath strong hands, good route runner all three levels, blocks his ass off. So to me, no matter what coach, if it's a Shanahan guy, if it's Bruce Ariens, if it's Shane Waldron, if it's any of these guys that are always to me, I know, I had to throw it in there. Brian Davle, like any of these guys, Dave, they get their hands on him, I can make him work. Third down, I can put you in the slot. First and second down, we only got one receiver out there.

You're the receiver out there. He can just do it all. So, yeah, you feel real receivers are volatile. Like, it just really depends. But him, I'm just like, his game just translates really, really nicely. I thought this summer, like, we were talking about the receipts. receivers. It was like, oh, Marvin. All right, let's talk about all the other guys.

Dan and I did. And I was like, you know, I really like this on Dunezai guy. I thought he was going to be my little hipster guy. And then just all he did was just don't on people week after week. And I was like, well, that, that by the time September ended, I was like, well, that's gone. He's a top 15 guy now. And the last thing I'll say is one of my favorite things is his personality is just he's competitive. I think all these guys are, but he is competitive.

And he has that just kind of just that shit to him. Like, he just does. One of my favorite things. Any player has done this past year. It was Roma Duzzi getting on Twitter and where are those called the Hangouts or wherever they call it. Oh my gosh, I sound like a boomer right now. But like the Twitter hangouts and it was an Oregon fan one. And he hops on there and said, hey, you guys better stop it or I'm going to come back for another season.

Duck on y'all. And I was like, yes. Absolutely. He played an out of Oregon game. He's allowed to say whatever he wants. I was like, I love that. That's just such like a perfect little like needling. Well, I don't think a lot of people know.

He actually, he had a broken rib and punctured lung. in September and he didn't miss a game. I don't think a lot of people know that because he does, this is bad. He's going to downplay it. Like he is a tough, tough dude. I mean, my comparison for him was Amari Cooper, but I think he has a little bit more of that toughness to him than I think even Cooper has. But I mean, he's a team captain, productive. Again, another player where you just keep checking the boxes and it's like, yeah, I mean, like how Robert framed it,

I feel very comfortable turning in that card because he's just going to be a quality receiver for a long, long time. And that's why I've said through the process. And that's why I was so emphatic on the bear's trading up because I just had a hard time seeing any of these three guys fall to nine. It's possible. If we see four quarterbacks going to top six, like it seems very likely will happen. It's very possible that one of these receivers could be there at nine or ten. but man, it'd be hard to say no to any one of these three guys.

I hate this because there was a moment a couple weeks ago after the Keenan Allen thing happened where I was like, you know what, I'm good. You know, however it ends up shaking out, I'm fine, I'm willing to live with this. Did you watch them? And then I've watched them more and more. Yeah.

And then every single mock draft now has him going to the Bears at 9. So I just can't extricate myself from that reality anymore. And when it doesn't happen, I'm going to be so disappointed. It's like when we hopped on with Adam and Am,

last week, Robert. It was just kind of like in there. We thought the discussion was like, oh, offensive line, receiver, where do they go at nine? And it was set up like, hey, I prefer receiver here. And it's set up for me to say offensive line. I go, yeah, usually I would say offensive line. That's what you want to.

But have you watched these guys? It's like, these are needle movers. These are guys that like, I always say that line lifts the floor receivers lift the ceiling. These guys truly lift that ceiling way up there. So if you get them in the right situation, it's like, geez, look out. What is the league? consensus on him day. And if neighbors is maybe a little bit higher in some league circles just because

of what he does compared to Harrison, like, how does the NFL, by your estimation, feel about Oduenze? I mean, I can't find anyone that says like a bad word about him. I mean, it's always, oh, he's so good. Or one of my favorite players. I mean, when I talk to West Coast guys, they always bring up Fattano, the Washington left tackle, and Ruma Dunzee. Those are the two players consistently that are brought up to me by West Coast guys as their favorite players. That wasn't me, guys. That wasn't me saying that today. This is going to be the most amateurish bullshit that I say on this show, but I'm about to say it anyway. When you turn on the Washington tape and you watch those guys, they just look like stars.

Like, just like the way they carry themselves, the way that they move, Fatanu's stance. Like, just like everything about him and what he is on a football field is just like, yeah, that guy's good. I don't know. I've watched 20 plays, that guy's good. And that's exactly how I feel about a Dune's day. So the fact that those two have near universal appeal and approval rates from those guys is the least surprising thing you could say to me. Yeah, 100%. Those are the two that get mentioned the most, and it's hard to find someone say a bad word about them. And that's why they both finished in the top 10 of my final top 100. That'll be in the draft guide. So, yeah, two of the best players in this entire draft play for the Huskies, no doubt. I stuck them both in the top 10 too.

Ah, there we go. And both Vegas locals. So I got to get a little shout out to there. I got a lot of connections to these two. And his, his name is Rome because his dad's a history buff. So it's a great name. It's good to, yeah, it is.

He, for, his dad for sure had him when he was in his 30s. Because it wasn't in his 20s when he was a Rome enthusiast. It's once you turn 30, I'll soon, near going like, hey, Rome's pretty cool. So, yeah, right? Roe was in a history channel more. Rome is a phenomenal name. Two of my three best friends, Nate, you've met both of them. They've had kids in the last year, and the kids' names are Rowan as a girl and Rohan as a boy.

It's like those, names and those are strong names. And Rome is like right in there. Like that's just a strong name. You were setting that kid up for success if that kid's name is Rome from day one. All right, you mentioned these three guys is three of the best players in this draft. Another guy that is in most people's top tens. And Nate, I know you think is a potential superstar is Brock Bowers. So he's the only tight end.

we're going to talk about in this group because he's not really a tight end, the way he's valued, the way that he can be used. So, Nate, you did a great piece on him for Yahoo a couple weeks ago talking about just the designations and the usage and how that can get a little bit blurred and how we're valuing him. So as you're looking at Brock Bowers and a team considering taking him in the top 10 and the top 15, why do you think he deserves that sort of consideration, even if he is, quote, unquote, a tight end? Yeah, it's the term offensive weapon, which I hate, but I'm using it for him. And that's what he is.

He legitimately, and it's not theory, there is proof of this, can line up on the outside, can win in the slot, and can beat defensive backs one-on-one, which is unlocks so much for him and it unlocks so much for his potential of where he can align. There's comparisons right now a lot with him and Kyle Pitts, because that was the last highly drafted tight end. They're different. They're different animals. They're both tight ends, yes, technically, but much like every other position, they win in different ways. align in different ways. Cala Pitts is a X receiver slash tight end. Bowers is a slot

adjuster slash tight end. And there's differences of where I think their paths are going to be. 44.7% of Bauer snaps in college were from, or sorry, we're from the tight end alignment, which ranks 168th of 191 qualifying tight ends over the last couple of years.

So he's barely lined up as a quote unquote tight end. He is a true just pass catcher. And I have hesitation of that type, or I did. And recent offensive kind of philosophies and also just what he brings to the table has maybe just go like, yeah, whatever, get him on the field. He is your best five skill player out there. Get him out on the field.

He can take handoffs and he's legit on him. He could be a jet sweep guy. Like, his closest comparisons are more Cooper dejean and Pooka Nakuwa than Kyle Pitts. Like, those- Cooper Coppupac de Kua. What did I do it again? You said Cooper DeGine. So, so Graham Barton.

Yeah. Yeah. Brock Bowers to me, it feels like the Graham Barton of tennis. It is. But he, moving on. So with Bowers, he is the second most snaps just truly from the slot. And again, that would be like, oh, he's a glorified receiver. Can he even beat a slot guy?

Can he beat a safety? And his tape is just littered with him breaking off these guys. slants, out routes, corners. He is one of at any position, the best sail runners I've ever seen. And that's, you know, baked over and it come back out. He's so good at him because his body control and the speed and this explosive of playability. So for me, I think he is when I say situation proof, scheme proof. I do have a little hesitation with that with him because it's just like, oh, there's a couple

spots. I like him better. I could see him being misused very easily in the NFL. And that's where it's like, I even said in my article, it's like, Any offense coordinator worth their salary will find a way to use this guy. And so that's where I've kind of, is he that generational guy that we have a purple chip guy? Well, no, because I do have qualms of where he can land. And I think if you're a true guy that has to be that tier, it doesn't matter where the frick you go, you're going to produce or have a chance to produce.

So that's why I have some hesitations. But is that he can align on the wing. He's a decent blocker. He's not great, but he can scrap. He can do enough. You're not going to run him at the point of attack, but he's not a negative in that sense. He's better than Sam Laporta, was that blocking. So the use of how tight ends are too, where these receiving only guys get moved around, get hidden in the blocking, or the run game a little bit more, like what the lines do with the Rams have done, with the Packers have done, shoot what the chiefs have done, all these teams, Falcons even a little bit.

I know I got to mention them, 2023 Falcons, RIP, but even how they use these guys, that is what makes me, or the bills with Kincaid. How these use these guys makes me go, oh, Bowers has a clear path. to reduce. Think of him as a jumbo slot that has explosive playability and is a good route runner and can do other things as well. That's how you just have to pigeon them. Here's my only question to that. I'm fine with

all of that. And I think what right or wrong, what Sam LaPorte did last year, I think, kind of expanded my mind a little bit about what tight ends can be in the modern NFL, where he's the number one receiver in a lot of looks, he's productive right away. But if he's a supercharged slot, Dane, is a supercharged

slot we're taking in the top 10 picks? Just as a supersized slot alone, probably not. But when you kind of piggybacking on what Nate was saying about how versatile he is, how the different ways you can use him, that's what I think makes him worth a top 10 to 12 pick, is because you can line them up in line. You can line them up as a lead blocker. You can line them up out wide. You can do all these different things. And that's why it's so important that he lands with a play caller that understands how to use him. And that's why he's so tough to peg in a mock draft because he's just not going to be a fit for everybody. And even teams that I'd like to see him on, I don't know if they're going to see the value or if the GM's going to trust the offensive coordinator enough and say, yeah, I have full trust that our playculler is going to understand how to best use him.

But I mean, he's a special athlete. And look, the ball skills are crazy. Only 4% drop rate in his career. The yak is ridiculous. this past year, 8.5 yards after the catch per reception. He has another gear with the ball in his hands. And he's a master of the hidden yards. That's something that I don't think he gets enough credit for.

He's always gaining a few extra yards. And that matters so much when instead of, you know, third and seven, it's second and two. Or third and two, because that second down play, you were able to get that extra yardage because the toughness that he brings. And I'm glad you brought up to Kyle Pitts because anytime you have a conversation with about Bowers,

Kyle Pitts is going to come up because he was the last highest draft of tight end and that's been mixed results, obviously. But he's so much more diverse than Pitts, especially as a blocker. With Pitts, it was like, okay, you hope he engages correctly and just holds on long enough to do his job.

His projection. Yeah. Right. And with Bowers, he can get movement at times. He's awesome as a lead blocker. And he's really, really smart. There are times on tape where you can see him pre-snap. He's pointing out the blitzer to the quarterback.

And he's communicating protections. So this is a really, really smart player. And I think that bodes well for immediate production, immediate impact wherever he goes. Because you don't have to take him off the field in certain situations or certain packages. He can be a true three, four-down player. And that, but again, it's just it's all about him going to a place where they're going to to understand how to best use that. The hidden yards thing, I think, is such a great point.

And I think that is, it's really applicable to the modern NFL. If we're going to be playing in this world where everyone's got a roof over everything, if you've got a guy who's going to pick up three, four, five more yards and he should every single time he touches the ball and he's a yak monster, there's so much value in that. And that is positionless. It doesn't matter if he's a slot guy or a tight end or whatever. That's just a, if I get the ball in his hands, positive things happen, I think you could argue that there's more value to that sort of player now, Nate, than there's

been at any other time that I've been watching the league. I think every coach, every position is just figure out, shoot, we just got to get our best guys out there, figure it out from there. And which is great. If I spin it out to him, what happens? Yes. And shoot, I mean, we watch it at Georgia. How many times would he catch a screen Bowers would when he split out as a true receiver.

They were in a receiver tunnel screens for him and two, three times a game. And he averaged over eight and a half yards a catch in his college career, which was more than any of the top three receivers that we just talked about. Like, he averaged 8.5 yards per catch or after the catch. And everybody knew where the ball was going. Like, it's not like this is some secret. Everybody in the stadium knew where the ball was going. And it's, yeah, so the consensus top three, neighbors are 6.6 yards after the catch.

And again, this could be convoluted, but just to point out what this guy can create. So the hidden yard stuff, watch the Auburn game. You've never, you'll never see a pass catcher take over a football game like Brock Bowers against Auburn. And it was. catches the late touchdown, I think, to take the lead where he catches like a dig and just takes it to the house. They lose that game without Brock Bowers. Yep. He's the one-man show.

And they're just thrown. He's just Carson Bexels. Like, whatever, go Brock. And it's, I mean, the yards have to catch that. He's doing it against SEC defenses. So you don't, he's did it as freshman year. He's getting plays dialed up from him coming straight from Napa Valley, going to Athens and just like, yeah, he's our guy. You know, 11 touchdowns is a freshman?

Yeah. On a national championship. He has to get double digit touchdown catches. National championship winning team. They're giving them jet sweeps as a tight end. I just want to reiterate how rare that is. Like jet sweeps to a tight end. I've seen like three guys ever get that.

So the speed and power and I even said the grace of how he plays, you mentioned that you could stay on the field, Dane. That's his value. He could be on the field for 60 snaps a game. Not a lot of guys can do that. That is value. That is truly bringing it to the table. Nate, where do you, where would you want to see him?

Where is a good fit in your mind? Oh, the Los Angeles Rams. Besides the ramps. You said this so many times. Other than the Rams, who would it be? But that's a team who perfectly utilized so of their players. The Colts is a good one. But that's the thing.

So, like, when you're looking at the top 10, I don't really like a lot of the spots in the top 10 for him. Because, like, the Chargers, no. Like, they just need so much more else. And I don't know how they, he did make Vernon Davis work. So who knows? Like, the Giants need so much more. They already have enough, quote-unquote, slot guys.

So, like, those teams I kind of struggle with a little bit. Vikings already have Addison, Jefferson, all these types of guys. So, like, we're working down. The draft, Saints on the Moms, so that's where I'm get to. Now I'm at Colts and Rams. Can't be the Jags because they would run out 13 personnel, teams would match with dime. They had Evan Ingraham, Brand Strange. What about the Bengals?

And the Bengals as well. And the Bengals as well from our discussion the other day that we had as more of a Tower Boyd, reconfiguring the offense kind of replacement. That's another. But again, where are those teams at? 15, 18, 19. even if I consider this guy top five talent

that's where I'm getting at with him. The two teams that are really interesting that are realistic possibilities are at 9 and 10 with the Bears and the Jets and like the Jets are interesting because okay

do we trust Nathaniel Hackett to be the guy that we're talking about to use this diverse skill set? I get the reservations there and Aaron Rogers is not known for trusting rookies. You know he's Bowers does feel

different. It feels like he's more equipped to understand the full playbook and be integrated right away, but that's also something. Right. And Robert, what would your reaction be if Brock Bowers is the ninth overall pick? It just after the Keenan Allen thing, I think it makes less sense. Just because I think Keenan Allen spent so much

time in the slot, and that's honestly where he might be best at this stage of his career. So because of that, it's just harder for me to imagine. But before they traded for Keenan Allen, when they really just needed another outside receiver, would have made total sense to me. I don't think signing Gerald Everett should prevent you from chasing a guy like Brock Bowers.

The Kenan Allen thing is the only wrinkle that makes me a little bit more hesitant about it. The only other team I wanted to mention was the Broncos as a possibility. They want to get more explosive on offense. The Broncos used fewer tight-end related plays last year than almost anybody else. But I think that was more personnel than anything philosophical with Sean Peyton. I mean, he was the O.C. for the Giants for Jeremy Shockey. He's awesome rookie year going way back. I mean, this is...

Jimmy Graham, think about how they used Marcus Colston, who was like a tight end hybrid player. I would not be the least bit surprised if the Broncos took him, the least bit surprised. That's a great one. He would run 500 choice routes with him. Actually, that's actually a great fit. It's just kind of one of those where the Broncos, I have no idea where they're going to go with himself. And also, and again, you don't want to just say, oh, because this guy is gone, that's a replacement for him. Judy was their slot guy.

So again, there's a clear path for him to kind of like fill in and it. slot in there, pun intended. One of the reasons I think that it might make sense for Denver is because they're starting over, because it's such a blank slate and you look at that guy, but that's the best player still available in the draft. We're taking that guy. And there's stylistic overlap between players that Peyton has used well in the past. I think there are a lot of different boxes that that move specifically checks.

There was a reason Ben Johnson and Dan Campbell were able to use Sam Laporteur so easily. It's a great call. They're Sean Payee, guys. So they had proof of being able to do this before. so why not just get the supercharged Sam LaPorta. Let's get to the depth in this class because there's a ton of guys we're talking about. We're going to do probably five or six just categories here

that I'm going to ask you guys to throw out some answers for. Dan, if you had to bet on a guy outside of the top three to be a number one receiver at some point in his career, a difference-making one. Who would that be for you? A guy that could be a true number one is it would have you Brian Thomas Jr. from LSU, the quote-unquote other receiver from LSU.

he for a guy that is that size he's 6 3 210 pounds ran a 433 in the 40 and that absolutely shows on film a guy that is a better route runner than given credit for i mean i think he's kind of labeled as this basketball player who uh is learning the game i mean he is far more far advanced than just that uh still has a ways to go but he is more than just this raw player who's still learning the game the acceleration, the stutter step releases. He finds the ball well in flight. He tracks the ball well and he finishes. He can work back.

He can be a quote unquote big receiver when he needs to, but he's not only that. I mean, he has yards after catch. He blocks his butt off. There's a lot of things that point to him being a true number one, maybe not immediately, but as he continues to grow and develop, he had the fastest flying 20 at the combine, which is crazy for a guy that size. Oh, he led the FBS and touchdowns to this past year,

was 17. So there's just a lot that he offers that you can point to and say, okay, yeah, that'll translate, that'll work. Let's get that on our team and let's see where we can take it. One of the things I think is really underrated with the receiver play is what you're doing with your upper body when you're trying to create initial separation off the line of scrimmage.

He is so slippery and so slithery when he's coming off the ball for a guy that tall. I was always very impressed with that. Just like him getting really skinny and just like what he would do with his shoulders off the line of scrimmage and getting initial separation

on top of all the explosiveness. I think there is more nuance to his game than the broad strokes of his profile might indicate. He looks like a prototypical ex that you'd be like, oh, Nate's going to love this guy because of that. But his, he sings. and his foot quickness and his foot tightness.

Flexibility. Yes. Yeah. He moves differently than what you would picture him moving like or playing like, really. Dane mentioned that like, yeah, he can win some balls and everything. But this guy is not playing like T. Higgins. He's playing like someone completely. I have yet to find a comparison that I can figure out for this guy.

It's tough, man. With him specifically, it's really hard. He moves like a six-foot guy, but he's nearly six-four. He can fly. And it's like, yeah, he just does a lot. And what Dane said, I really like that, where he improved as a route runner this year. If you watch a game in September, October, and then November, the November route running is like pretty good. But if I watch them in September, I'm like, yeah, he's got, he's got ways to go.

Shoot, he's rapidly ascending. That's great to see. His route tree isn't very deep. Like, it's not a deep, but the branches. A lot of verticals, yeah. Stops. Yeah, but the ones you do see are good. So that's where with his athleticism, that's where I'm like, okay, what more can you bring to the table?

Because what you do right now is already good and you already improved upon it. So I think what I'm agreeing with both of you guys are kind of saying is that his best football is in front of them. But that's crazy to say for a guy that just put up those numbers in the SEC and tested like this and looks like this. He is going to develop even more. It's just that he still needs a little bit of development. But his tools are awesome and he understands how to play the position already, which is pretty cool. Nate, if you had to bet on one receiver outside of the top three to be a number one guy at some point, who would it be? Yeah, Thomas is a good one, but the other one going with is AD Mitchell.

and this is more that typical X prototype receiver that Nate usually likes. I'm twice referring to myself in the third person. That's awesome. But A.D. Mitchell is a guy. He's been one of my biggest risers throughout this draft process. I kind of looked him as a second rounder throughout the season. Every game I checked in on Texas, I'm like, yep, I'm good. He can be inconsistent.

There's times where you're going, what are you doing on that route there, my guy? And then you watch him, and you watch him move. and he's another guy that moves differently. It looks like sometimes he's taking a leisurely stroll on his route, and then you watch everybody else moving, and he's just moving past them and moving further, eating up yards and his body control. He's another guy that it's,

what are you with your route running? The ones I do see, it's like it's pretty good for another guy that's in a big frame and a big body. His body tightness of able to stay tight on the route breaks, his hands and ball skills. The touchdown against Michigan, I think it's in the college football playoff is one that comes to mind

where he kind of double jumped like Super Mario, but there's other times where he's doing that. Kansas game is his star game. That's the one if you want to watch you want to watch what this guy could be in the NFL.

It's all just about consistency. I talk about Roman Dunesay is situation scheme proof. A.D. Mitchell is highly situation-proof or situation-dependent. He has to get to the right spot to unlock all of his gifts, but I just think he's...

You think that's more about dynamic and environment than it is about offensive scheme, though. Yeah, I think it's more just getting the most out of him. He needs a good coach, I think, to just continue developing. He just has to be more consistent. That's all it is. But I do think he's got knocked a couple times for some of the like, oh, he's not running a route here when really it was the play designed. It was like an RPO and he's supposed to run the guy off. So I haven't fully consider all that, but I do see inconsistencies with some of his effort and stuff, but some

I can explain away. So that's why I think he has to be in a situation where you're not the number one guy right away. You're more of a number two that we're hoping to grow, like on a winning team that picks in the 20s, as opposed to a guy I pick in the top 12, if that makes sense. So he just has a little bit more variance where I think his end-game outcome will be. He's a phenomenal athlete. The number that stuck out to me, according to SIS, his on-target catch percentage this year was like 96%. So if the throw was on target, he caught 96% of those targets this year. That was eighth. Anyone in college football, any level

of college football, any conference, he was eighth. And when you watch some of the body control stuff and what he can do with his hands, it is there. And I, this is, I don't have to consider the downsides. I'm not making the pick. He is one of those guys that if I'm in the 20s and I need a receiver, I could talk myself into him

every single time because of the flashes that you see. Dane, I know that you have some elements of his game that you're a little bit more skeptical about. Beyond just some of the effort stuff, what are a couple of the other things that maybe give you a little bit of pause about what his ceiling could look like. And the overall inconsistency, I think that's what when NFL teams sit down with him, they want to know, okay, why did you have three or fewer catches in 10 of 14 games this year? You know, why weren't you more consistently impactful?

And I think the, you know, coming out of those meetings, the answers were a little bit mixed in terms of, okay, we feel great about what he had to say about it. and he's just, he's been very up and down, hot or cold. But I agree with everything Nate said, because when he's at his best, I mean, he just, he casts this wide net as a pass catcher. He,

he does seem to have a big play swagger to him. Even going back to Georgia, he caught the go-ahead touchdown in the 2021 national title game. I mean, going back to his freshman year, he was making big plays. But I do think there are areas of his game where it just gives you a little bit of doubt.

He's not a big yak guy. He averaged. 3.2 yards after catch this past year. And he's not known for being a creative player. It's bizarre. It's bizarre. When you think about how explosive he is and then when you watch him with the ball in his hands, it looks like he's moving in slow motion.

I have absolutely no way to describe it or explain it. And he's not the strongest player through contact. He's not bad, but he's 205 pounds. You know, there are times where I think in the NFL against more physical. musical dbs. It's going to be a little bit tougher for him to finish some of those grabs. But yeah, I can understand if he goes 22nd or he goes 40 second, I wouldn't be surprised at either one of those two spots. That's exactly.

Yeah, the ball skills, it's all catching away. And that's good, but exactly what Dane says. He has those frustrating runs where it's a dig. And then there's some guy hit him in the back and it was like, it just plops down. And you're like, you just caught one that was five times harder than that, like just the last drive. So again, it's just the inconsistencies with it. But he can do things that not a lot of guys can do, not only just this draft class, but like the league.

It's just that it's flashes. And that's what you're betting on. So again, it's the situation to unlock all those flashes. So that's a guy who can be a number one receiver that you would bet on outside of the top three. Dane, is there a guy maybe even a little bit further down outside of that top three or four guys that you would bet on to be a starting receiver long term in the NFL? I'll go with my fifth receiver in this class, and that's Ladd-McConkey from Georgia. I mean, if you can get, if you're okay with the size and you feel good that he's going to hold up physically,

then I'm not sure what's holding you back exactly. Now, can he be a, I do think he has inside, outside versatility. He's not going to be a true X for you, but his ability to uncover. And this is why I love his fit with, you know, say like Carolina, because that's an offense that needs to, guys to get open and he can get open. He's so quick with his releases. He's a polished route runner, fluid hips, body control. He can quickly transition out of his brakes. He just made, he made a lot of SEC defensive backs look foolish. And that's not an easy thing to do. So, and he catches the ball well. This year, he was banged up. And that's part of his report. That's

part of his profile is, okay, he missed game, he had a back injury. Then he rolled his right ankle, miss some more time. Can he stay on the field and be someone that you can rely on week in, week out? If you feel comfortable that he can, then he's going first round. But that is the kind of hang up with him. But still a guy that somewhere in the top 35, top 40, I would absolutely bet on as being a starter for me and a guy that's going to help move the offense. When he was on the field, I loved what I saw. I mean, what he does at the top of routes and just him getting on top of guys vertically on some of those outbreaking routes,

the timing he plays with, he just has such a great sense of how to play the position. And when you combine that with like real deal explosiveness, like I think that is absolutely worth pointing out with this guy because of who he's going to get compared to,

the vertical push that he has on some of these routes and what he can do to guys because of that, it's a real part of his game. And I think that's why he's so intriguing to me. You look at the short shuttle 397. He's under four in the short shuttle.

672 in the three cone under under seven I mean these the numbers the testing matches up with what you see on the field and yeah 100% he knows how to tempo routes he can get on the toes of cornerbacks and then yeah that snap is just it's instant and it's very synchronized

so he can really tie defensive backs and knots and again I don't think he's slot only I do think he's got that some of that inside outside versatility and he's just a very quarterback friendly target as long as he's on the field. Yeah, he's what like pitchers they call pitch tunneling, like where they make the pitches all look the same coming. Ladd is route tunneling. That's what you want, right? It's perfect. It's you want every route to look the same. It's, yeah, that can be a whole other conversation.

But it's lad is like everything. Like you brought up those outbreakers and that was one of my favorite things. It was the same day. I graded AD Mitchell officially and Ladd officially on the same day. And it was funny because all of 80 Mitchell's catches seemed like they're on inbreakers and all lad seemed like they're on outbreakers. So I was like, just put these two together. and they were on Georgia at the same time. Just put these two together and you're good. Like that you got it all covered right there. Great route runner.

Like truly a great route runner. And I agree with Dane where it's like he's not slot only. He's a Z that I think is more of a 50-50 guy. You know, 60 outside, 40 inside. But that's nice. That's useful. He can be a high end number two for an offense. He was 70-30 in college over his career.

He's not outside. He's not outside. He's not. I know. My comparison's been a manual standard. for him, Sanders was a little bit longer, but they actually have similar testing profiles as well, but that's kind of how Sanders was as a pro, more of a Z, mostly outside, but then it could do some slots up too, even if he wasn't like the ideal, ideal size to be outside. But man, great route runner.

Was a vertical player, even though he was a little bit undersized. Yeah, I think that's really good. I like that a lot, actually. Yeah, he's, he, I think everybody likes, I think everybody has him graded about the same and everybody likes, we all like, it's, he is one of the most consistently graded guys is Ladd McConkey. It's just, he, can't help but like his game. And the athleticism, I think, has just gotten underrated with him, because he can take the top off too. He's a three-level route runner. He's got good hands. It's just like what Dane said, some of the size stuff isn't great. He has an injury history stuff, but he is useful all the way. And yeah, big, big fan lad.

Trying to figure out where he fits, like when you're looking at the draft. Carolina makes tons of sense. If he's there at 39 and Carolina doesn't move, I think that makes tons of sense. But even if the chargers were to wait, right, if they were to draft the tackle in the top, round they needed a receiver in the second round just a team that needs a usable wide receiver I just think that's why that's how I would see him yeah trying to think oh man the Cowboys would have been sweet uh but I think it'll last the second round there and they're taking a lineman probably in the first round so that like him and Cd would be cool I think that'd be fun yeah they kind of have some nice synergy um trying to just even think who else well we didn't we didn't

we didn't need to do this this is 32 in Kansas City I mean oh I I know. I know. Because him and Hollywood Brown are different. Holly Brown's a vertical slot only guy. Like actually, lad actually would pair okay with him. It's a one-year deal.

You don't have to worry about like what Holly Brown is going to be long term if you want to draft that guy. But that's why in my last mock draft had Carolina trading up from 33 to, you know, 28 or whatever it was, just to make sure, hey, we're going to get our guy and come away with that receiver that Bryce Young needs. Even New England. New England at 34. If they just need somebody to catch the ball, I mean, it's got juice. and they need juice.

Yeah. You'd be the best receiver on the Patriots almost immediately. I know. Probably. Whoever quarterback they take a three is going to need somebody to throw it to. Nate, your answer to this question, if you had to take a guy maybe outside of the top three or four receivers that you would bet on to be a starter in the NFL long term, who would that be for you? I said Ladd kind of has a consensus approval.

I'm taking a guy that I'm a little higher on than a lot of other people. And that's jail and Polk. Roman Duzzi's teammate at Washington. I actually have Ladd and Polk right next to each other on my big board. Ladd just one spot above. But I think Polk to me it's that his ceiling is limited. And I'm going to start with the negatives.

He doesn't have the overwhelming juice. I would say he's just an adequate athlete, adequate speed. 4-5 at the combine, right? Yep, yep. Yep, I think 451 or something like that. But he plays like, and that's exactly how he plays. Like that is what he looks like on film. He looks like a 4-5 guy.

It was just one of those where it's like, don't run a 4-6, dude. Then I got to drop you. I'm sorry, my man. But I watch him. He's useful. just useful. Everything we talk about with Ondoenze, he is the Diet Coke version of that. Lines up inside, outside. Pretty good route runner all three levels, pretty good ball skills down the field. Pretty good with the ball in his hands. I would say that's probably the worst aspect of his game,

kind of like in Dunezay a little bit, but also he's a good blocker. He can line up in the slot. He can just do a lot. So for me, Undoze will not probably, or on Tuesday, poke will not go. I have him at 36 on my big board. I do not think he will go in the 30s. I think he will go in the 30s. you'll go probably later in the second round or even early third. I think, Dan, I think you're, like, more third round grade on it, right? Yeah, he finished 75 overall in line. Yeah. So, and that guy I really like, yeah. Exactly. But it's just what is his upside of everything. But I just see this guy as a starting Z that can line up in the slot. If you, a good offense, I already has a number one guy. He's just to that awesome complimentary piece can beat Zone.

He's actually a guy I kind of like for the Chiefs more in round two. And it's just that a guy, he beats Zone. Quarterbacks. best friend, gets those first downs, does the dirty work a lot. Just really useful. Almost Robert Woods might be a little rich for him, but it's just that kind of role where they just do a lot of things well. So Jalen Polk is a guy. I just keep, I've been trying to ding and actually as I try to ding him, the more I watch, I should keep rising him up. And so yeah, that's where he ends up. So, yeah, Vlad and Jalen Polk are the two guys outside the big wigs that I really like in this class. The guy he reminded me of was Josh Palmer. When he was coming out of Tennessee, the charge of

just draft him in third round. Another Nate guy that Nate like coming out. Yeah. That's the type of player here reminded me of, which I don't think Josh Palmer's, he hasn't lit the NFL on fire, obviously, but he's a useful player. A lot of what you're saying.

And I do think it's notable that the coaches at Washington, they went out of their way to say that he is one of, if not the toughest and strongest kids on the roster, on the team. And so, yeah, He's got three level instincts. The toughness is there. His route running is good and ascending, I would say.

It's getting, it's not great yet, but he could get there. Yeah, it just, he doesn't have the elite physical traits. But yeah, he's going to be a quality pro for a long time. He should be. If he gets pressed man, if he has to beat man to man to man against some free corner all the time, I get a little worrisome. But how many teams are doing that right now where teams are running? His feel for zone.

is why I like him. He just gets it. He just gets how to play receiver. Like, he just understands all those areas and stuff. And again, he's a guy that grows on you. And you understand why Pennix puts up numbers like that when you have a couple

receivers like this and the third guy maybe too. Let's get to some guys that maybe, not that you don't like, but that were a little harder for you to figure out. Dana, as you were going through the receivers in this class, who was the toughest evaluation for you, the guy that was just hardest to pin down?

I mean, Kean Coleman's up there. Malachi Corley from Western, Kentucky, he's easy player to like. It's just, okay, figuring out, because he was, you know, he has the nickname, the Yak King. He's going to receive a million. Debo, Samuel compares. I already has. Because he's that style of player where it's a lot of underneath throws, let him become a running back with the ball in his hands. But what is he beyond that? I think we saw a little bit of it at the Senior Bowl in terms of him running routes down the field. He showed he, he, could do it, but can he do it consistently in an in-game environment? That's kind of the question mark with Malachi Corley. And then he missed the combine because of COVID. He had a positive COVID test. They wouldn't let him come. And so he had his pro day was one of the most well attended just to see how he would work out. And he didn't do he, he ran the 40, did a short shuttle,

he didn't do anything else. But he's been on a million 30 visits to NFL teams the last month as teams try to figure him out. So I'm kind of with NFL teams there where I'm still trying to figure him out too. I know what he can do well. It's just, okay, beyond that, what is he? And what is his, is he, is he typecast as this, you know, underneath receiver who's going to create after the catch or can he be more than that? And so I think that's, I need to know that he can handle more than just motions, jet sweeps, quick screens. And I think he can, but I wouldn't say I'm confident that he can. Where do you land on Coralinate? I'm right with Dane.

I had him, he's in my 60s right now, 63, overall on my big board. And I think Dane's somewhere similar that, yeah, I struggle with him, just like Dane said. Poor man's Rishie Rice ended up being kind of the comparison for him, but the thing was Rice wasn't like this in college. Rice was doing dunking on guys and doing so much more and running away from guys on and off the field.

So the, but with Rice, that's that, watching Corley. It's, yeah, that's that role that Rice is getting used in the pros, but it's like, I don't know. If you're already getting used in that role in college, does that mean you can't do all the other things? Western Kentucky will chuck that rock and they'll use them in totally different ways. So why aren't you using them like a traditional receiver? Do they not trust them already to do that? That always cause alarm bells for me, not having testing where it's like, oh, my God, this guy's just an elite athlete. Who cares about all that?

I'm with you. I kind of see him as more of a round three guy, interesting guy to drop in to maybe add some juice. to your offense, but I feel like you better have a couple other targets already to live off of, unless you might get stuck with a kind of like a Vlas Jones kind of thing, different players, but type of situation, I'd say. Yeah, that's a nice parting shot at me from there. Nate, who is your guy here? The hardest guy for you to pin down as you were going through your evaluations?

The Florida State receivers. So Keonleck Coleman and Johnny Wilson, both of them. I couldn't tell you how I feel about them right now. I'm doing a top 100 right now. Like, they have, both of their names off to decide. I'm trying to figure out where I want to put them. I've actually beginning the process. Thought Coleman was a easy first round grade for me.

Maybe a little lower late first grade. He kind of keeps dropping as the process has gone along. The lack of separation sometimes, the route running just kind of looseness, but not looseness as far as athleticism, looseness as far as details and where you can see the basketball background come up because he probably didn't really focus on these types of things. If he were just a true blue tested crazy athlete, it would be a lot easier to see. but he doesn't create the separation all the time. But the thing is, he also just has awesome ball skills.

He's actually a decent yak guy because he can bounce off guys. He plays like a power forward even though he was a guard in college. So there's a lot of stuff I like, and he's an archetype that I typically like, but I just can't pinpoint how much I like him. I have him more in like kind of early mid-second range on my big board. But if he ends up being a decent pro, good pro, I totally see it. But I just, there's alarm bells going off. Statistically he has alarm bells going off.

And then that makes a lot of sense. I mean, he's 37 for me. So I'm kind of right there with you where I like him. It's just like in his combine was kind of like his tape where, okay, he runs a 4-6-1. And it's like, I knew he wasn't fast, but I was hoping it at least getting the four-fives. And then you see his gauntlet and you're like, all right, I'm right back, baby. This is great stuff. I mean.

He's so hard. Do you know what the GPS numbers look like on him, Dane? Have you talked to anybody about that? Is he somebody where the play speed is faster than the time speed is going to be? No, but that would make sense if it is because, I mean, he can return punts, you know, like he did that at Florida State. You know, I don't think he's, and I do think that's a good point, Nate, about how he is, because basketball has been a big part of his life, his entire life. And so, I mean, playing for Coach Isso at Michigan State. And he hasn't really worked on some of the details of settling and uncovering and just the things that we, why we love Marvin Harrison, Jr. so much and these other receivers.

So, but I do know in 50-50 situation. he can really shine. I mean, he can wear defenders as a backpack, and it just looks like an older brother, younger brother type of situation. So it just, the focus doesn't change for him in terms of catching the football. It's just, can he develop the subtle nuances

to be a better separator? That's the main question mark. It's good and bad. He reminds me a bit of DeAndre Hopkins, and I'm not saying this guy is one to one, but it's that lack of separation doesn't tuss well, all these types of things, but Deandre Hopkins just dunked on everyone.

He turned 50, 50 balls into 80-20 balls. Not a lot of guys can do that. Some of the best hands we've ever seen. And when you talk about nuance, like, think about what, like working on the sidelines, so many different small elements to his game. You have to be elite at everything else if separation and explosiveness are going to be weaknesses. But that's this path that I think he has to take, you know, as he works on other things. He has to get another guy that's very situation-dependent. So it's just there's things that he can do that. Not a lot of guys can do it as far as his

hand-to-eye and his body control. And, you know, he's going to be a red zone weapon right away, contested catches and everything, and that's what you have to weigh. Is it the GPS numbers? This guy never ran track. He never got in a three-point stance like that and did that. You know, you watch the guy we'll talk about later, guys that just have blow by because they ran track and played football. He was a basketball player.

So I think just a lot of those things is if you're glass half full on them, those are excuses I can make. If I'm glass half empty on him, I go like, well, we'll just do it. You're a good athlete. Just run. So I go back and forth so much on them. But I want to say this, I do like him. I ended up that I like him.

That's where I ended up. But I have him at 33 on my big board, actually. Actually, not, yeah. 37 for me. So right there. Yeah. One other guy I wanted to mention for this category, Jermaine Burton from Alabama.

I struggle with him because the talent is, talent's there. It's not a question of talent. It's, you know, he's, it's a matter of consistency on and off the field. I mean, he's been to six schools over the last eight years. As the way one NFL scout put it, he was on the shit list of the coaches at both Georgia and Alabama. But if you just sat down and watched his, you know, 10, 15 best plays, you're like, all right, this is an easy first round pick, right? Because he has that type of talent.

He averaged over 20 yards of catch this year. He didn't have a drop this year. I mean, there's a lot that translates to the next level. It's just can he develop a consistency that's needed? And where is he going to be drafted? I have, I mean, it could be third round, could be fifth round. I mean, and this is where it's tough when you rank. It's tough when you have guys that have these off-field question marks and things that linger

beyond what you see on the tape. And Jermaine Burton is one of those guys. You know, why did you only have 600 yards with Bryce Young as your quarterback in 2022? Why, there are just a lot of questions that need answered. But at a certain point in the draft, it's like, all right, we're not going to let this guy fall another pick. We're going to bet on him and see what happens. I'm just not sure where that spot's going to be. Watch him snag the football. Holy crap. That guy can snag that football. That's what he can do. Where'd you end up with him? I put him at number 100. He's 100. Okay. Just to include

him in there. I think he's going to make mine too. He's in the 90s. I'm right there with you. It's just it's he's tough. I wanted to give the one last mention that I already did, but Johnny Wilson, Keanu Coleman's team at Florida State. Another guy, I have no idea what to make of him. He's 6, 7, almost 240 pounds. We've made jokes that he can convert to tight end. And then I watch him run some routes. I'm like, oh, oh, you got, oh, you can do that?

And it's, he can do more than I thought. And like, but then it's like, I'm not watching them dunk on guys because I want to at 6, 7, but then I watched Jordan Travis throw the football and a lot more understandable. And then, you know, I have no idea. Statistically, he is a darling, as far as all the underlying stats. He is an efficient, explosive guy. He's 6-7-2-40, not sure what he is. And so I do like him as well.

But he's a guy, if you're talking about dart throws in like round three, I would take a dart throw and be like, whatever. Hey, maybe he's great on kickoff and kickoff return because that's going to be relevant now. Maybe we can find some use for him on teams. I don't know. There's some, there. Some Devin Funches there. Yeah.

Doran Green Beckham. Yeah, not sure what he is, kind of in between. But, yeah, he's on the tight end board for some teams. that's how they view him and how they consider him and then other teams is a receiver so yeah he's a tough one talk about a couple more situations that need a little bit of unpacking as you guys have watched

the narratives about players unfold over the last couple months day who is the guy where the public consensus or the way the people are talking about him is the most confusing to you is the furthest away from how you see that player I do think Xavier worthy Texas receiver fits in this category

the speed's awesome obviously four two one combine record and we knew he was fast going in and you see it on the field explosive vertically defenses have to honor his deep speed there's no way around that and he also has some short area suddenness so he can uncover on some of those short intermediate patterns digs whip routes where it's mono e mono and i'm just going to break this off and as long as he's on time on schedule with his feet he looks really good doing it but it's just okay i want to see the speed show up more to big plays on film. And it just, it doesn't.

And so over the last 15 years, only 14 receivers ran a 4-3-2 or faster at the Combine, which so he's in, you know, a rare list. But you look at the names on that list and you're like, oh, well, none of these guys are any good. So it's like, okay, the 4-2-1's great, but all the guys that have run fast, no 1,000-yard receivers on that group of the 14 receivers. The best one is, it's a good receiver. He's Curtis Samuel.

He's the best of the group. But if we're talking about someone that teams are considering in the top 25, I'm looking for a little bit more than Curtis Samuel at that point. And there's the fact that, again, the speed shows up on film. You can throw on the Alabama tape and you can see him win deep. But only 18%. I mentioned how Malik Neighbors was, I think, 39% of his plays were 20 plus yards. Only 18% of his catches this year resulted in a 20 plus yard play. And it's like, okay, the speed is awesome, but how are you using it? How is it translating to impacting the scoreboard and helping our offense? And with Worthy, I just didn't see it enough. I mean, I like him. I put him at number 50 on my board where that's where I feel comfortable taking him. But there's a good chance he ends up going in the first round. And it's just based off of 40 time that I'm not sure that reason alone should be, you should be moving him up that much.

you feel similarly about worthy, Nate, but you, Troy Franklin's another kind of one of those slimmer speed guys in this draft, and you like Franklin more than you like Worthy. Yeah, Franklin's dropped a little bit just because, like you said, the size stuff, but it's he, or, yeah, size, I should say frame and everything, because Franklin is taller and longer,

and I think twitchier, even if he doesn't run to what Worthy's time was. I think he just has more springs and explosiveness to him. He is a little bit worrisome because it's like, all right, you're a buck 80 and change at that, frame that is that that that's a little scary i i've dropped him a little bit but he ended up in my uh this troy frankly i'm talking about and up in my 40s because of the ball skills uh because of what i think he can do in the red zone is a willing scrapper in the run game he's not great because he's skinny

but he's going to do the dirty work he's not could just turn it down can't say to say him about xavier worthy he's turning down all the physicality always and i uh still one the most disappointing things that's happened to me in the last year was texas high school coaches where i I posted a clip of Xavier Worthy blocking, just going. Well, he's not out there to do that. Like, you know, it's like, dude, if he blocks those two guys, those are touchdowns and you are football coaches saying that he shouldn't block? All right.

What are we doing in Texas right now? Are you guys kidding me? What are we teaching you guys? But anyways, but with Worthy and Franklin, Franklin just has more to me. He can win on the outside. I think it just had ball skills and everything. His hands are more consistent, I think, than worthy. Worthy going over the middle is like, that ball might get popped up in the air as much as he

might catch it. Like he double catches a lot in over the middle, which he can get away with right now in college with all that space in the Big 12. And he felt he's going to get his head taken off. Well, not really. His ribs taken off. And the ball will get popped in the air and turn into a turnover. So there's just, he's just the types of guys that these guys usually end up as busts. Like they just do.

If you, yeah, he runs a 4-21 at 165 pounds. And I would say the 165 pounds shows up more than the 4-2-1 does when I watch his film. It's speed to speed, but there's only so much speed that's used. useful and you got to use it and show it on film and show that with the ball in his hands he's just okay like taking the top off i'm seeing some corners keep up with him so it's not really that true true game speed that just takes the top off so i just have some concerns with him so i he's going to end up probably in the 60s or 70s for me when it's all setting down my big board uh just because i just have a lot more concerns than things i like with him you mentioned dane the guys who have run that fast

and been productive curtis samuel would 196 at 511 at the combine. 196. A little bit of a difference. 30 pounds. And even just in terms of deployment, that's not what

Curtis Samuel was. I mean, he was a gadget guy at times during when early in his career in Carolina. So it's just very different. I think it's a far,

is a long way to go from being a four to 165 pound guy to being a productive NFL player further than I think most people would believe. Both these guys,

I think, have, there's boom or bust. I think to both are games. With Franklin, I feel lower on him than most because I think he's skinny, a little stiff, not a polished route runner, and I just don't know that he fully trusts his hands. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. And so I see a field stretching Z who is going to be a little up and down. And I think the ups

have a chance to be really impactful. Because I do really like the way he builds his speed vertically because he can stack corners. He can really loosen that midfield coverage. And I think he tracks the ball well, it's just the finishing focus is a little bit up or down. So it's all about linear twitch with Franklin. And that's why I comped him to DJ Chark. I mean, Chark's a little thicker, but I think it's all about the linear twitch with these two guys. And Chark's obviously been a guy that's been up and down throughout his NFL career. No, Xavier Werther is 41st on the Consensus Big Board, Nate, and you said you were going to have him in your 60s. So you're very far away from that. He's at 62. 62 right now. And I, I, I'm a very far. I'm a lot. I

feel pretty good about that. It's just there's a lot of concerns more. And people are bringing up Tank Dell from last year. Tank Dell is two tiers better of a route runner. And I think is a full tier better of ball skills. So that that is a difference. Tank Dell is a different type of player than Xavier worthy. Another guy that there's some distance between the consensus and how both of you view him is Xavier Legat Dane. You hit him at, I believe, 77 on your most recent big board. The consensus big board has him at 58. And his profile is strange. I would love for you to just explain the kind of his path to this point because this is a guy who was a fifth year player had almost no production his first four years in college and then was a monster this year at South Carolina intriguing body type, he's explosive.

So how did you kind of place Xavier and Leggett in this process considering how non-traditional his path to this point has looked? Yeah, I mean, we could have easily mentioned him for some of these other categories about just not sure what to do with him, you know, kind of a challenging evaluation because 6-1-21 ran in the four-threes at the combine. And like you said, I mean, he had a grand total of like 30-some catches over the first four years. And he was a quarterback. He was a receiver, but he played mostly quarterback in high school. And so there was an adjustment period for him when he got to college. But, you know, it's like all of a sudden things turned on for him. And I do think what helps him is he has kick return value, that that's going to

show up right away with him. He's a well-built player. He's a well-built player. the D.K. Metcalf comparisons aren't apples to apples, but there are times where you can see that because he is a bigger guy. And once he can stretch out that stride, it's like, okay, this guy is just eating up yards. But I think when you, if you're looking for a guy for that specific role where he can work vertically and you want him on runway routes, you want him on, you know, crossers and where he doesn't have to stop and try to work himself open. And, you know, you want him on, you know, you know, where he doesn't have to stop and try to work himself open. and I don't think that's really what's going to accentuate what he does. But again, post-crossers, verticals, that's where he is a chance to really make something happen. It's just I feel more comfortable drafting him in, you know, the early to mid-third round as opposed to top 50, like some other people think that's where they have them. And teams are split on him too, just like Franklin, just like Worthy. I texted a scout yesterday about, I asked him over under pick 50 on Franklin. And he said, after for us, but that was a good line because he knows there's love for him.

It's the same thing with Leggett, where if you put the line at, say, 60 with Leggett, he could easily go ahead of that. But for a lot of teams, he's after. So it's not just me or Nate or us. It's a lot of teams are kind of on the fence about, okay, he's good. No one's saying he's not good. It's about just how good is he? What's his specific role?

How does he make our offense better? Those types of questions. How do you feel about Legat, Nate? The Trail on Berks is doing a lot in my head, not in a good way. With Leggett, you know, kind of just needs, plays kind of dialed up for him. Like Dana is saying, a lot of crossers screen kind of plays. And it's just where everything just has to be kind of manufactured to that. But I actually like Legat's film way better than Berks' film when he's film.

he was coming out from Arkansas. So that's kind of a funny thing. But Dan's saying there's a role for him for Leggett. There's a role. Not only just as a returner, but just as a specialty package guy to start with. And then you can see what else will we got. The way Bloomer stuff is scary for me,

especially at receiver. I've always been a big believer. The further away from the ball, the earlier impact you should be able to make, you know, from where the ball is. So at receiver, it's like, man,

if you're not contributing right away, even if maybe Richard's sophomore year or sophomore year, okay, that's a little scary for me. So those do a lot in my head. So it's like, is that because he doesn't get playing the position? Is there more to tap into? Is this what we're getting? But then the tools and what's the balls in his hands?

It's like, again, I'll use that phrase, not a lot of guys can do this. It's hard to teach. So I think I'm with Dane. I have more in the 70s on my big board. I haven't firmly planted, but he's for sure in the 70s. But with the get, it's that's, I'm not taking until round three. And I'm not taking them. to OSI have a really good offensive ecosystem

that we can just bring him along and make sure what we got with him and find small roles for him before we make it bigger. Speaking of round three, a couple more categories I want to hit him before we get out. Dan, who is your favorite guy

at receiver in this draft that will be picked outside of the first two routes? I think I'm going to go with, let's go with Malik Washington for this one. The Virginia receiver undersized. He's 5, 8.5, 195, 1,191 pounds.

But, you know, every year someone gets to Steve Smith comparisons. He's not Steve Smith. But he should be getting those comparisons if we have to do it this year, where he's clearly undersized. But he plays powerful. He's twitched up. He catches everything. His adjustment skills are big time. And he was kind of languishing at Northwestern for four years.

I mean, he had 65 catches his junior year, which is pretty good for Northwestern. but he goes transfers to Virginia this past year and he just blows up. I mean 110 catches. It was 1,500 yards. You can feel his toughness on tape. It's strong, confident hands. So I don't love the size, but I think his package of skills is going to translate really well. I think he can contribute in the return game.

So again, it's just he's undersized. But I think the catch point skills, the toughness, those are all things that are going to translate well. He can create explosive plays. So he's a third round pick for me. The size, I'm biased against or undersized receivers, but I have to make an exception with Malik Washington. So this is my question. Nate, can you make an exception for Malik Washington? Because you might even be more biased against undersized receivers than Dan is. I do because his ball skills are good. Or his hands are good, I should say. He has strong hands. And that's why I like him too. Yeah, I kind of seem as similar as Dan. I would be more comfortable

maybe early fourth with him. But that's splitting hairs once we're getting and pass, you know, pick 70, that's splitting hair. So, but no, I'm with you, Dane. I, he's not probably my favorite, but a guy that you watch him grows on me. He's useful, another type of guy. I see him as like a, I think he could be a nice solid third option, not number three receiver, but third option in a passing game, you know, kind of can do some, a nice little roll things everywhere.

So that's a pretty good one. I don't know who mine would be, man. Outside round, two rounds. Shoot, that might be Polk. But if not, let's go with his other Washington. teamate, let's get the trifecta. Let's get all three Washington receivers in this conversation. Jalen McMillan, I promise I watch more games than Washington this year.

I promise. I just like all these guys. And McMillan had a nice beginning of the year, got hurt, nice end of the year. He has, I think he's going to be a slot-only guy. I think he, the guy I keep comparing him to is Christian Kirk, some version of that, but slot-only vertical intermediate attacker. But that's not to say he's pretty good underneath as far as like, just kind of if you get him on the move. I wouldn't really want him breaking guys off. I want to get his legs going a little bit

as a longer slot guy. Um, willing, another guy that's willing to scrap in the run game. Again, that wash, those Washington coaches got all these guys to just work it in the run game, which again, makes me optimistic about them with the Seahawks right now. But I like McMillan. I just think there's a role for him in the league. I don't know if he can ever be in number one. Not sure if he can even be like a high end number two, but I do think this guy can be a useful member of a passing game, a nice, really high end auxiliary pass catcher. McMillan would be one and the other one would be another slot guy would be Roman Wilson, which I think is this is right on the cutoff.

He's kind of late to early 3rd, so this is kind of cheating right here. But Roman Wilson is another slot guy. Another guy I just see as useful in the NFL because it's just his hands, ball skills and just nice tidy route running. He's 41 on your big board, Nate, or Dane, Roman Wilson is. So I think you see him going a little bit higher than that. He's a big time player. McMillan's a guy that I'm with you.

I like a lot. I ended up dropping him out of my top 100 because I, I, I struggle. with the, just like he struggles playing through contact and that really worries me with him. But everything else reminds me so much of Jacobi Myers because he's even going to the baseball background, both former center fielder and you see that kind of ranging tracking skills. He looks like an outfielder. He really does. That makes so much sense.

He does look like an outfielder. Wow. Yeah. And so my big question is can he handle the physicality of playing inside in the NFL? And because of those questions, I put a fourth round grade on them. I still would love them on my team. But I had more questions than I initially thought I would with him, even though I do like him. Last one here.

Who for you, Dan, has a chance to be this year as Puka Nakua? Who's a guy that's going to go outside of maybe even the first four rounds that has a chance to come in and be an immediate starter in the league? Let's go with, let's go with Jerry Rice's son. haven't talked about him. If you've heard of Jerry Rice, Brendan Rice, USC receiver, 6-2-5, 210 pounds. He's, you know, he, obviously he's got the namesake, and so, you know, you have certain expectations, but he did a lot this year to kind of establish himself as his own guy. He is a good-sized athlete for a guy with that frame.

He has short area quickness. You know, he played the X and the Z for USC in that offense. You see a guy with size speed athleticism. You see a guy with he's building his route tree, his ability to win in different ways. 80% of his catches this year, first down touchdown. So there's a lot with the hand-eye coordination, with the physicality, with the size-speed athleticism that say, hey, he's got a chance to be that from day one, probably an XZ backup, but a guy that if given a chance to start, get a chance to get a chance to get.

to the starting lineup could really make something happen. How about you, Nate? Because your guy maybe outside of the top 100 that you think has a chance. We kind of just hit on him just a second ago, and that was Jermaine Burton for me, from Alabama. I kind of saw him. We were hit on this guy. Sorry, I can't bring a new name to the table because I don't really like Deontes Walker and a little lukewarm on Javon Baker from UCF.

So I'm a little lukewarm on those guys. So I'm going to stay with Burton for my answer just because of his hands and everything. And if he can get, I agree, there's some headache to him and you can even see it on film. I could see it last year watching Bryce Young. I felt like he kind of bought some routes sometimes. So, but there is just, there's, he has traits and he has workable traits and he has traits. And he has traits that usually go higher. It's just the total package is kind of just so inconsistent.

But if he falls to day three, this is a guy I could see be sneaky if he becomes a better pro than he was at college. All right. There you go. There's like the top 12 to 15 pass catchers in this draft. and a few stray thoughts on all of them. So sincerely appreciate you guys hanging out with us. Just a reminder, like we mentioned at the top. We'll be coming to you live on YouTube.

First two nights of the draft, reactions to every single pick. Please be on the lookout for that. Me, Nate, Dane, special guests, a lot of fun bells and whistles that we're going to try to trot out this year. We will have more specific information about timing and when we're going to start those broadcasts in the run up to it. But just know those are happening, and they are worth being on your radar.

Also worth being on your radar. The Beast comes out next Wednesday. Go to theathletic.com. Check out for my money and I think for anybody's money, the best pre-draft product you can get on the market. The work that Dane puts into it

is, it's unlike anybody else what he is going to pour into that thing. It's included in your subscription. So there you go. No extra money. You're already paying for it. That's it. So please go check that out.

And I know that you will be happy that you did. It is unlike anything else. For now, guys, that is all we've got. Sincerely appreciate you listening. Enjoy your weekend. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.