The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Brugler & Zierlein's 2022 NFL Combine review & biggest risers & fallers

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

The 2022 NFL Combine has come and gone, and it's time to recap the highs and lows of the workouts with our own draft guru Dane Brugler and NFL,com's Lance Zierlein. What was the deal with all those ridiculously-fast 40 times? Who were the biggest risers and fallers out of the weekend? Dane and Lance are preparing their next mock drafts and review the Combine through that lens on a new Athletic Football Show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome back. I'm Dane Bruegler, joined as always by NFL.com's Lance Zerline. This is the athletic football show, the post-combine wrap-up edition. Lance and I spent the last week in Indianapolis. It feels a little bit like information overload with just all the data and the info that comes out of that week. But we're going to do our best to hit all the main points here. Reflect on what we learn, talk about maybe the next steps,

plenty to get into. But Lance, I wanted to start with Saturday night. The front seven group, defensive line, past rushers, linebackers, I've been going to the combine for over 10 years now. And that workout was the most fun I've had sitting in the stands at Lucas Oil and watching these guys workout. Sometimes the drills can drag a little bit, but Saturday night, I mean, that was a blast. So I wanted to get your reaction to those workouts from Saturday. I mean, look, it was, there's an unbelievable amount of talent. And when you watch these guys, when you look at them, I'm just, I'm looking through my list right now. My grades, it's, it's really impressive to see the type of talent that's on the board, I think rounds one through three, really especially.

And the type of athletes that are available at that position, you saw it in the testing and not just the 40 times. You saw it in the way that they tested across the board. and the workout itself. And I think that's what you're alluding to is the way that they moved in space. It's just, it's rare for 280, 280, 300 plus pound guys to move the way that they did. And I thought, you know, I think the hoop drill,

which are the two big hoops, and we watch these guys, you know, try to bend in and run the arc there. A lot of times those drills are run at pro days. I don't know how long the combines had it in. I think that's one of the newer ones, right? They didn't used to have it in. And it's such a good drill to check hip flexion to see how these guys can corner and turn, check ankle flexion.

And I came away from that watching Devante Wyatt and George Karloftus and even Jordan Davis. I mean, to watch them run the hoops the way that they were able to stay low and bend, it was just really, really impressive. Yeah, and I thought, speaking specifically about the hoop drill, Trayvon Walker and Travis Jones, those two guys looked different when they were doing the hoop. And you're absolutely right. And actually, I met with a good buddy of mine who does a lot of, you know, works in the analytic world. You know, his company works with actually putting data to position specific drills like the hoop drill.

So you can tell. So it's, you know, we can see bend. We can talk about, oh, the guys got great bend. But we're going to be quantifying bend. here in the coming years. It's really fascinating all the things they're doing. But no, I agree with you. But some of these numbers, I mean, it was basically a Georgia bulldog infomercial Saturday night with the guys, the athletes that they hide out on the field.

Jordan Davis running what he did, 478 in a 40-yard dash, had 341 pounds. Just a little bit of context. Fletcher Cox ran a 479. So not as fast as Jordan Davis. And Fletcher Cox is also 43 pounds lighter when he ran that. So I think a big thing with Jordan Davis, and it wasn't just a 40. It was, you know, what, 10-3 broad jump, 32-inch vert. So just elite, elite numbers.

Those numbers are crazy. Like a 32-inch vert for a guy 3-41 along with, what was the other one? It was the broad. He didn't do short shuttle, did he? No, just the jumps. Yeah. So an interesting thing happened, and we're going to get into, you tell me when you want to start talking about 40-yard dashes because we can start talking about that.

Get into it now, yeah. All right, well, let's get into it now. You know, the first day when I'm watching the wide receivers, I'm like, whoa, and there were some fast guys in there. I knew there were some fast guys, without question. That was pretty eye-opening. I knew Taekwan Thornton was going to be fast because he was a track guy, Tariq Wullen, track guy, Kellen Barnes, track guy.

I mean, these guys were all expected to be really fast. But when I saw some of the numbers come down to board, I'm like, dude, this is the fast. I can't believe how fast this wide receiver. group was. And then we got, what, eight wide receivers in that position group that were under four-four. That was incredible. I had never seen anything like that. It set a combine record. Then the next day, combine record, then the next day, combine record, then the next day, combine record for speed. I mean, after day two, to be honest with you, and here's what made it, and here's when I had to check on this, when Jordan Davis ran a 478, I was like, what? So I was, what? So I

reached out to four different teams. I said, what were your times on Jordan Davis, your hand times? Because the talk was me and someone else from NFL network, we were talking. And our thought was, okay, there's an issue with the laser timing being used with NFL network. Like that information that it's gathering is just, it's off. And so there's going to be a consistent level of speed that we see that is off because it's not going to match up with hand times. So I reached out to four teams. This is what I got, 477, 478, 470, 470480. Those are four teams on Jordan Davis. And at that point, I just think, okay, he's a complete freak show.

But then when I see the other numbers come down, including a couple that didn't match up with what trainers thought guys were going to run, I reached out to some people from the Colts. And I said, hey, said a curiosity, have y'all done anything different with your turf? like is because if not I don't know what to say this is just insane and they said yeah we installed a new turf in the summer of 2020 well there was no combine in 2021 and so this is the first time a combine's being run on it and that made sense and so as the as the combine progressed I recognized okay I knew one db who ran in the low four threes who was running right at about a four four oh with the trainers I started checking actually I knew about a couple of dbs, what they were going to run, and they all ran faster.

And so what I think has happened is there is a really, really fast track right now in Indianapolis. Now, I still think this was probably an historically fast draft class when you look at some of the players who did have track backgrounds and who are just unbelievable athletes. I don't think that changes. I just think from a perspective standpoint, and this is going to sound funny, you know, Jordan Davis maybe is actually a 485 guy. You know, he's probably a 341-pound guy who runs into 4-8s. That's still insane.

It doesn't change a 32-inch vertical leap. It doesn't change the broad jumps we're seeing for some of these guys, like with Kyle Hamilton. Now, the short show, and I think it was maybe your tweet that I saw, the three, or rather the short shuttle and the three-cone drills, there's less guys doing it, and they're not as fast. And the three cones are what we've seen from a testing standpoint. The three cone drills have steadily come down because the trainers are so good at creating efficiency with the guys who test. The guys who test now understand body control efficiency and the trainers have it down

to a science on the short shuttle and three cone. So you can see training downwards on time there. But this year the times weren't as fast. And so I don't know if that had anything to do with the surface or not, but I thought it was pretty interesting that every white. receiver, was it every wide receiver running back? No, it's every running back, right, passed on a three-con and short shuttle? Collectively, as a group, every running back collectively passed on it. And I think that was interesting because maybe an agent or two started recognizing, okay,

the times are not as good on this surface. So there was definitely faster 40 times because of the surface. There's just, it's, you can't have records at every position, you know, by the amount of players, like 12 offensive linemen under 5-0. That's unheard of. I mean, that's absolutely. unheard of. So when you look at it across the board, however, I think agents who advised their players not to run at the combine because they wanted to give them more time to train for the pro days, right now they're probably kicking themselves because their fastest time was going to be at the combine. And instead, they're going to wait for a pro day where they're likely, like Isaiah Spiller, he shouldn't run at the combine. He should have run at the combine. Because even if you're not as

fast if you run a 459 or even a 460 well even the unofficial times were getting much much faster when they were official so i think that when agents look back they're going to they're going to wish they their players had run and trained and been ready to run at the combine because those times are going to be faster than pro days i can almost guarantee you yeah and that's that's a fantastic context with the new turf this being the first combine with the the new turf. That makes a ton of sense. And just to get back to Jordan Davis real quick, as we leave the combine now, so having that data, I still think there's questions about the snap count and, you know, can he sustain that level of juice for, you know, 40 snaps a game?

Because if you're drafting him in the top half of round one, you're expecting him to play over 35 snaps a game, which he did not do last year for Georgia. So I think that snap count and the endurance factor is still a point of emphasis with Jordan Davis. Can he, can he play? three downs, I mean. Right, exactly. And when teams go up tempo against the team that drafts them and keep them on the field and then, you know, use that against them, there's some gamesmanship there. But if I put the over under it, let's just say 12, you're going over under Jordan Davis at pick 12. Over under Jordan Davis at pick 12.

I'm in the middle of doing a mock draft that's due at 1 o'clock today. So I'm going to go over because I don't see him as a three-down player, but I did have a pro personnel guy say there's no way when you do your mock, don't put him over 15 because I mean he's going first half of the 15, 16, first half of the draft. He's going to go there. Guys don't look like him. Trayvon Walker is going to be my biggest mover in my mock draft. I'm going to have him number three to the Texans because he's a Lovie Smith fit and he's a Nick Casario fit, which is rare because one guy's used to. three, four. This is how rare he is physically. And I still don't see the rush on tape, which is my big concern with Trayvon Walker. But the fact is he's got 35 inch arms, Dietrich Wies, Willie McGannis, Richard Seymour, Trey Flowers. These are all Patriot guys that Nick Heserio has seen. And then you see the speed and quickness and even movement skills in the workouts, because he looked fluid. He looked really good. I mean, he looked unbelievable. That's Lovie Smith.

So he's that rare hybrid guy with the body type of a patriot and the upfield testing for sure in athletic numbers of a Lovie Smith. So that's why I think the Texans are going to shock people. And I'm going to put him, I think it will be pretty surprising when I have Aiden Hutchinson fall past number three. And I have the Texans drafting Trayvon Walker. And yes, I have somebody trading up to the number two spot. So it's a- A, spoiler alert, I've got Trayvon Walker going three to the Texans as well. updated mock this week.

So, yeah, okay, good. There we have it. And he actually fits a need also. Perfect fit. Perfect fit. And I've been high on Tronvon. He was my number six players going into the combine. Absolutely.

You have been. You know, I thought he was going to go high no matter what because of just the athletic traits that we saw on film. But, I mean, he even surpassed what I was expecting at 35 and a half inch arms at 272 pounds to run a 451, 689 in the 3-kone. Are you kidding me? Yeah, no. I did not see, I'm just telling you, I want to go back and every once in a while, every year there's a player or two where I get really frustrated because I just can't see it.

I'm like, what am I not seeing? How do I not see it? And I clearly am not seeing something because I don't mind having to project. Like he doesn't run off the rush off the edge. And Daniel Jeremiah and I were discussing. He goes, but you can see it when they have them do it? I'm like, when do they have them do it? And I, and I see him get hung up on blocks a lot. I don't see him get to counters. but obviously you and DJ are seeing something that leads you to believe that he can do it. And then when you look at the testing, there's no reason to believe that he can't do it because the testing is just rare testing for guys, for a guy with that kind of size. So I got to go back. And before I raise his grade, I've got to see it. Like I've got to be able to project it. I don't mind being wrong.

I always, my saying is be accurate. Don't be right. You know, don't try to be right because then you're going to jackhammer your own personal ideology and it becomes a process of ego then if you try to be right. Just try to be accurate. To be accurate, you have to be open to missing. And so I got to go find out. I got to go watch Trayvon Walker probably tomorrow. I got too much to do today. But I want to go see, I'm going to watch all of his rushes. Because I have no doubt on the run. The run stuff is elite. I'm not worried about that. And he can really get out in space and track you down too. But I got to see it from a

rush standpoint. You got to be a two-way guy. And I want to see the explosiveness in his rush. And some of it can be coach, too. Some of that is you can coach a guy to do things. And so yeah, it was, I just, it comes down to, I don't think he was, he just wasn't asked to do it. You know, there's, like, I don't know that it's a lack of ability to get off blocks as it is. He was just, like the coaches told him, lock out your block and just, you know, hold the point of attack. You know, like that, they didn't ask him to shed and go get the quarterback. But the times when he did do it, I thought that, okay, this is a dude. This is a guy. I can, you know, just going based off my memory, there was a few plays against Auburn where I thought he did that, a few plays against Florida, where he did that,

especially, you know, when they asked him to drop in space too. You see that fluidity. He's, he's just a, I think, rare physical player. But I do think that you're definitely not the only one who's kind of thinking, all right, how do you marry the lack of production? And I'm not just talking about, looking in the box score and seeing sacks. I'm talking about on tape production of making plays in the backfield. How do you marry that with the traits? And there is, there's no question. There's a projection involved with Trouvon Walker.

It's not as simple as just, okay, he put up these times and, you know, he's going to be this big time NFL player. There's a projection involved. He's going to need coaching. So Walker definitely, no question about it, helped himself. And it's funny because we, you know, talk about Jordan Davis, talk about Trouin Walker. or a few of these other guys, but it almost forces us to overlook some of the other just testers that we had Saturday night from this defensive line group.

You know, guys like, I mean, Travis Jones. We'd be talking about Travis Jones as a huge winner, if not for Jordan Davis. But because Davis went off, we're not talking about Travis Jones at 325 pounds. We aren't, but I guarantee you the teams are. Oh, absolutely. Well, I shouldn't say we aren't because we are right now.

Yeah. 325 pounds, 492 in the 40-yard dash. Remarkable. 733-3-3 cone. His jumps were solid for a guy that size. Just remarkable, go from the Senior Bowl, have the week that he did, follow it up with the combine performance. Travis Jones, he's got a rocket pack on his back. Devonte Wyatt tested like we thought he would, being above average. There were a bunch of these guys on the defensive line who I think even surpassed expectations,

with what we thought. And I want to get your thoughts to an Aiden Hutchinson because, you know, the 40 was okay. You know, I don't, there's some questions about just, you know, how good his workout was. But when you look at the three cone and a short shuttle, those numbers are elite with what he did. You know, you, so I'm going to pull up his three cone here. Let all defensive linemen, 673 in the three cone. That's probably much as good as you get. That's when you're comparing that to like Vaude Miller.

Like I believe Bonn Miller was 670. So, I mean, that's what kind of three cone that is. Short shuttle 415. That's the elite of the elite category when you talk about pass rushers that are 260 plus moving like that. Yeah, it's, I'm pulling up JJ Watts numbers because his strength, his, his, his strength coach in college told me he would be, he would be near JJ's stuff. His vertical, did he vert? 36. J.J. 37.

What was this broad? Nine, nine. This is 10 feet for JJ. Three cone was a 688 for three for JJ. Six seven, three. Short shuttle 421. 415. So he was writing in 491, JJ 40 yard dash, which probably would have been like a 484 on this turf.

So, yeah. And what was his weight? 65, 290. Yeah, that's a 30 pounds. That's the difference. Yeah, and 34-inch arms. And so when you look at JJ, like JJ Watt, all of the data was there for being an elite player, 65, 290, 34-inch arms, 11-and-8 hands.

You look at the physical measurables and you look at the testing, it all said elite. The thing that concerns me a little bit with, I can tell you, the NFL is not as high on Aiden Hutchinson as the general public. And I think one of the reasons is because they just don't feel like he has the same kind of explosive juice, even though the testing's good. What bothers me a little bit is the 32 and an 8th's arm is really short. And when you look at defensive ends, you have to look at defensive ends the same way you look at offensive tackles. We can't sit here and tell you, well, an offensive tackle has, you know, 33 and an eighth or 33 and a quarter arms. That's a little bit shorter. Well, tackle's got under 33 arms. He's got to move to guard. Well, what about the guy who's going

up against a tackle? The defensive end, the edge rusher. Do we also not ding him for having, you know, 32 and an eighth inch arms? He's not going to get into a tackle quicker necessarily if it's just a battle of pure length. So the arm length does matter to evaluators for the simple fact that first man on with their hands has a big advantage. And that's why a tackle versus a rusher, it's a big deal. And that's why when you look at Trayvon Walker having 35-inch arms, that's a really big deal. That's a big deal to NFL teams because, and when you see how Trevon Walker uses his hands, his hand quickness and punch timing is so good that he has never second in with his hands.

Never. So he's always going to have that advantage. Yeah, and that's, I think it's interesting. I tried to kind of warn people about Hutchinson's length because we knew it was below 32 and a half from the spring measurements. And so that is, that is a big deal. There's no question about it. And I think just from my conversations in Indianapolis, the feedback on Hutchinson was definitely mixed. You know, there's a lot of people really like him, but to love him and to say he's, you know, because I have a surprise, Peter King in his article this morning said Hutchinson's the favorite to go number one.

And that surprised me. That took me off guard a little bit. I definitely did not get that vibe with the people that I talked to in Indy. No, I didn't either. but what he has though is like he we're projecting some of these players. Trayvon Walker is still a projection. You'll admit that. Everyone will admit that.

Trayvon Walker is a projection. We don't really have to project Aidan Hutchinson. You know who he is. What you see is what you get. Now that's why some people are kind of down on them because they want players that they think have a lot more room for growth. Upside. And projection and upside.

Yeah. And the thought is, well, Aidan Hutchinson, is who he is. Yeah, but that's still like a hard playing, physical, hardworking, high football character, productive player. I don't think there's any way he fails in the NFL. He's not going to fail in the NFL. So there's nothing wrong with having a guy who is a safe player in Aden Hutchinson. And maybe Jacksonville will say, look, we want a guy that we know is going to show up every single day, bust his ass, do everything necessary, and a guy that's going to be productive that we can count on. And it's going to be great for our locker room culture. There's nothing wrong with that either.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that as opposed to Icky, who has some work to do, very talented, has some work to do. And then Evan Neal, who's a huge need at tackle, but a little bit more of a low burn type of energy guy on the field where he's talented as traits, but I don't get the same motor and activity level from him that I do from Aiden Hutchinson. So it's interesting to look at that. I mean, I've tried to think of a way to put him there. It's just, man, it's just you've got so much invested in Trevor Lawrence. I just don't know how you don't draft a tackle to really make offensive line your

absolute priority this year. And you know, Coach Peterson's really going to be pushing for that as they go through draft meetings and they try to figure out who to take with the number one pick. You mean the guy who had Jason Peters and Lane Johnson? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like a lot of things that what you're saying about Hutchinson would also apply to Jermaine Johnson as well, which is why I wouldn't be shocked if Jermaine Johnson goes ahead of Tivado or Carl Offtis. You know, I would not.

I got him ahead in the mock. I was like, oh, can I do this? I think I put him ahead in a mock. But it's. I think I've got them back to back. Yeah. Again, a lot of what you're saying with Hutchinson is the, uh, you know, um, you're saying. you know what you're getting.

You know, I think, I've said this before, but if you, if I clipped that my top five favorite plays from Jermaine Johnson this past year, I think at least three are in the run game because he's so good coming down hill. His awareness, his ability to get off blocks, he understands how to leverage the run, but he's also a pass rusher as well.

So, yeah, Jermaine Johnson, and he had a good workout. Do we have the same mock draft? Do you have Jermaine at the Giants and Tibado at the Falcons? No, I don't have that, but it's close. Okay. I have both guys in the top 10. So it's, I think we're both on the right track, though. I think both, both these guys are going to go in the top 10 because they're pass rushers.

And we're going to see past rushers go early and often. Same thing with tackles. So Johnson, same 40-yard dashes, Tibido, but they both ran a 458. It was interesting, Boy, A. Maffei went a 453, David Ajabo, 455. Sam Williams 446. Sam Williams is going to be an interesting prospect because he's got, you know, the background stuff is, you know, things, teams need to work through that and figure out him as a person and all that background baggage that comes along with him. And that's something that is going to be different from team to team. But as a rusher, I mean, he's a little stiff, but as a rusher, he can get after it. And I think just based on talent, what are we talking? Second round, third round, just based on talent? Yeah, based on, I don't think he's good against the run, but he's great as a rusher. So he's a DPR with size. I mean, I think he's a second round or worst case scenario, a talent.

But yeah, like you said, there's some stuff in the background that I still think he goes within the first three rounds. We've seen guys who are productive and talented as a rusher. Those guys, some things get forgiven for those guys. That's just historically the case. So we saw it with Frank Clark, for example, in Seattle. Frank was a really, really good player. And I'd argue Frank had some pretty questionable stuff in his background coming out of Michigan. There's a reason he wasn't at the combine because he wasn't allowed to be there.

So, yeah, I think he's a guy that, man, his rush is really, really good. So I think he's a day two, a day two pass rush. But teams have to be okay with the person. And if you're not and you're still willing to do it, well, you're going to take some bullets from the media and probably rightfully so. I wanted to pivot to defensive backs. And the fastest 40 of this combine, Kaelin Barnes, no surprise. I think he was the favorite coming in, two-time state champion sprinter in high school in Texas. Tariq Woolen, fastest MPH at the senior bowl since they've been recording it, 22.45 miles per hour.

So not a big surprise there. Another track guy, but it is a surprise that somebody's six. 4 can run a shorter distance that fast. That's pretty insane. That's very, very rare. And Woolen, I think he also had a, what, 42 in the Verve? So it showed up there as well. Yeah, he was a crazy, crazy tester.

And they're testing, they're training together. So that's a pretty good speed at that place. Matt Ruhl recruited a track team. He had J.T. Woods was sub-4-4-4. Kaelin Barnes was sub-4-3. and Tyquan Thornton was sub 4-3. I mean, and Thornton was, I knew Thornton would be really fast, too. He was also a track guy.

So, yeah, Matt Rule, his big thing at Baylor was he wanted traits, you know, his one year. I had a chance to visit with him when he was at Baylor. And I was with the analytics director, who the former analytics director, Tyler Oberley, with Tampa Bay. And we went in and Tyler and I are working on a project, a business model together. And we visited with Matt and his staff. and I was blown away at how advanced they were. He had, and you'll appreciate this day,

and he had standards for every position. Everything was about traits, height, weight, speed, length. Everything was a pro-style model of recruiting. He was recruiting pro-style players, same way Nick Saban does, but, you know, and Kirby Smart and other teams. But there at Baylor, he had limited financial resources because they were still, they were on probation still from the Art Brile stuff, so they had not received their money yet for the,

it was not released to Baylor so they had limited resources but looking at him and then the very next day I visited with another major name program and coach and that program did not have the same insight into traits into the NFL system and I always wondered how much of that was because rule you may remember when he was at temple we're having to write up temple guys too like temple guys were popping in day three all over the place and they were testers and I always wondered how much his time. He had one year with the Giants. I always wondered how much of that time with the Giants had an impact on him from a recruiting standpoint, understanding traits and what a big deal they are. Because if you're recruiting guys that look like pro players, you're going to have a chance

to have pro players. And guess what? Teams with good pro players, they end up being Georgia and Alabama and Ohio State. Yeah, that makes sense. And I met Coach Ruhle for the first time just this week in Indianapolis, ran into him at Harry and Izzy's, and we had a good conversation. But I think you're spot on because if you're at a school like Baylor, and instead of trying to compete with A&M and the Longhorns at Oklahoma for the five stars, go after these three stars who have track backgrounds, who have speed, who have projectable traits and trust your development.

And that's what he did. Kaelin Barnes, fastest 40 this year, Tyquan Thornton. ran off 4-2. And Tariq Wulin, he had a Baylor offer, and he decided to go to UTSA instead. So Matt Ruhl, he almost had the three fastest 40-yard dashes this year recruited to Baylor. Just a fascinating development there. I wanted to ask you about Zion McCollum, San Houston State. This guy who was at the Senior Bowl, did you see the numbers that he posted? Did you see this on tape? So 6-2, 199 pounds. He's a corner. 4333 in the 40-yard dash. 39.5 inch vert, 100, let's see, that's 11 foot broad. The three cone and 20, that's a

short shuttle. That's what really kind of blew my mind. Not the broad, not the 11 foot broad. No, that's, that's elite of the elite. But I thought he had some lower body explosion. But the 648 three cone. I mean, that, that's phenomenal number right there. 394 in the 20 yard shuttle. I mean, anything under seven is a pretty good time for a three. cone. This guy was under, he just goes a six-foot-old. He was faster than he trained. So here's some insight. I know his agent. His agent and I played high school ball together and we're still really good friends, although he knows that I'm not giving any love to prospects. My evaluations are not for sale, so I don't care how good friends you are. And I have agents argue with me all the time. It is what

it is. I see a guy how I see a guy. I see him more as a developmental player, not a project, but a player. I don't always see the testing on the tape. When you got to flip the hips, turn, and run. I think it takes him a little longer to get cranked up. I did on tape see some of the testing and some of the explosiveness. To that level, you're talking about some of the most special DB, like Zion McCollum deserves his own podcast conversation because I don't think people recognize those numbers are just staggering. But Rodney told me, and he's never lied about his prospects. He's always been straight up and you deal with agents and you know how often you'll get, you know, you'll get pushed to some numbers that are simply not accurate.

You never lies. You learn the ones that are honest and the ones that embellish a little. Yeah. And Rodney knows I'll call his ass out if he does something like that to me. But he told me, LZ, wait until you see what he's doing. And Rodney's long professed the greatness of Brent Calloway over at Exos. And he's like, dude, he showed me a video. And Brent took it.

And I don't want to say he was a six. 656 short shuttle. 656 was unbelievable. It was a video and you could hear him say, 656. He ran even faster than that on the short shuttle. So I knew he was going to be a monster tester. I told Daniel Jeremiah,

I just wanted to give him a heads up for the broadcast. I'm like, my guy never lies to me about what his guy. He also had Calvin Austin, and he told me Calvin Austin was going to be off the charts with his testing. And sure enough, you want to look at the testing for Calvin Austin, very similar to Zion McCollum. So Rodney is an agent who has recognized Rodney Williams, put the full name out there, United Sports Group.

He's a guy like Baylor, right? He doesn't have all the money and the opportunity to go recruit the guys at the very, very top. So what he recognized is the whole traits thing. So he goes and looks for high, high football character guys and traits guys. And so I give him credit for finding Zion McCollum because Zion is just one of the most impressive kids you're going to talk to, really, really impressive. And now teams are going to look at him and say, you know, did you mention how big he is, Dane?

Did you mention his size? Yeah, 6-2-199. $1.99. He plays over $200. That's big. And so I already had one team saying, we may want to try him at safety. So what you have with Zion because of his size is you have a corner potential or a safety potential. Then you test.

And now coaches and evaluators all want to say, we need to really dig in on. this guy because these are rare, rare numbers. And that's across the board, height, weight, speed, explosiveness across the board. So some of these guys who didn't get as much love in the national broadcasts are really causing some serious discussions behind the scenes today without question. No doubt. And I think several of the top safeties check the box with, you know, Dax Hill, giving credit for doing everything. He ran a 438 and a 40, 33.5 inch, 1-Broad, short shuttle was 406. That was second best behind McCollum, and then it's three-cone.

657. That was also second-best behind McCollum. Michigan, I mean, how about Michigan's three-con drills are bananas? You look at Quitty Pay, Aden Hutchinson, Daxton Hill, like the three-comb numbers they crank out are ridiculous. My guess is Josh Uchie ran a really fast one, too. I don't know that off the top of my head, but their three-cone stuff, their change-of-direction quickness is really. pretty insane over there. It's, it's interesting how certain, you know, Penn State, I actually

expected Briscoe to have a bigger day, combine-wise, because Penn State also, guys from their secondary are almost always really good testers. You saw it with Tariq Castro Fields, this, this combine as well. Yep, no doubt. And I think Lewis Seen, we talked a lot about Georgia players so far, and he, I thought, helped himself quite a bit on Sunday. 6-2-199-4-37 in the 40-yard dash. Now, this is a player that when he drives downhill, you see speed, but I didn't expect 437, and then 36.5 inch vert, 111 broad from him. That's a big time number. And so, I mean, seen has been a top 50 guy for me, you know, dating back to the summer when I did my first draft board. And I think he's, he's more than lived up to it with the way he played this year and the

way he tested over the weekend. Man, his testing was really, really impressive. They, every, everybody I talked to said he was, his interviews were so impressed. He's just, he's so cerebral. They say he's basically like having another coach on the field. I don't think he always, like he plays very physically, urgent, aggressive. I don't feel like from a body type standpoint, he has the same stopping power when he hits you, when he hits running backs, although he's going to hit him with everything he's got. I think Brian Cook and Bristker have a little bit more than him from a safety standpoint.

But it's hard to, when you tie in this kind of testing with the makeup and pedigree of a winner that he has coming from Georgia and Kirby Smart, and then you add the fact that his interviews were so good and people raved about his intelligence on the back end. You've basically hit the perfect combination for a safety that's going to be drafted pretty high. You think he can go in the first? I would be surprised, but it's certainly possible.

I mean, I don't think anybody would really bat an eye if it happened. What do you make of Kyle Hamilton's? Did it surprise you that he didn't run faster? I mean, the jumps were great, but the 40 was okay. I mean, we have to remember 6-4-220. This is not your normal safety. So I don't know that it's necessarily a red flag. I just, you know, I think we think so highly of Kyle Hamilton and the freak that he is that maybe we expected just a little bit better.

I can tell you some teams didn't love the workout. I full disclosure, I was on a plane flying back to Houston. So I wasn't able to watch the workout. I just looked at all the numbers. and I'm going to go, I'm going to try to go back and watch the workout stuff today. I was a little bit surprised, yeah, because remember, this is a super fast track earlier in the day. Earlier in this podcast, it just told you, if you're going to keep context of guys, if you're going to maintain your context for guys who ran extraordinarily fast,

you also have to take a look at guys that had a little disappointing 40 times, and don't think for one second that teams are not going to take a look at them and maybe ding them a little bit for their 40 times. So, yeah, I was a little surprised at what he ran. I thought he would be in the mid-four-fives is what I expected, you know, on a standard track. A mid-four-five is what I expected. I didn't think you would see unbelievably blazing speed, but it was one of those things where it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

But I thought as a football player, when he's running straight downhill in a straight line, he's going to go hit you with a lot of aggression. He was not a flip to hips and play playing backwards type of guy. That's not where he is at his best. But I did talk to a couple of teams. I said, hey, how did Hamilton look? He said, ah, hype train was out of control on him. This will slow the hype train down on him.

So I think that I don't know how the workout went, but for them to say that, I don't think it was just about the 40-yard dash time. So the rest of his testing went really, really well. But if he's a safety that runs in a four-force on that track, I think he's locking in. I do think there's a chance that I'll probably plug him into the Jets at four in my mock, but I do think there's a chance that he could maybe slide maybe to number, who knows, seven with the Giants, maybe eight.

I think there's a chance that he and Hutchinson both could slide just a little bit in the draft. Icky's moving way up. Trevor Penning is going to move way up in my mock draft. And who's your other guy that you would say moves way up, that maybe you hadn't anticipated in the top 10? have a guy? Well, I mean, I'm at one. So he's, that's not moving. I've got him at one right now, too. I think it was... Sauce. You moving him?

Sauce Gardner, I think he's moved up. When you just put a 4-4-1 on the 40, when you have that size, that length, like, you're just, you're going to go high. There's just, there's no way around that. Penning, yeah, I think penning, I'd be surprised if he doesn't go in the top seven, I'll say. I think he's going to go somewhere top seven. Again, six, seven, three, 25. It moves like that that has the mentality that he has. Those guys just aren't walking down the street. So I think penning goes very high. And then I don't know if there's any other big surprise. Like, I don't think Jordan Davis gets in the top 10. I don't have any quarterbacks in the top 10. Who's your first running back right now off the board in a mock draft scenario? I don't have any in the first round. But I think in the second round, there's a conversation between Bree's I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I said running back. I'm at wide receiver. Oh, I still have Garrett Wilson. He's been my talk guy the whole way, and I'm sticking with that just because. Good for you. Burks. Burks's workout was super disappointing. Not his workout. I was okay with the workout. The testing was very disappointing. It was. And I think part of it, I was told that he, when he showed up to training, he was about 240.

So he played towards the end of the season at around 240 pounds. And so he, you know, there was a focus on getting his weight down and not, I think that kind of threw him off and getting some of the testing numbers up. He's a good football player, though. He is, absolutely. And so that's why he's not going to fall too far. Give me one guy for you that it doesn't have to be in the first round for your block, but someone that is a riser just based off of seeing them at the combine over. or it could be any position, offense defense.

Oh, so that's a big right. Tyler Smith from Tulsa. I mean, yeah, Tyler Smith is a guy who really flashes on tape, but he's got some discipline issues in terms of holding and not working his hands and feet the way that he can. But Tyler Smith, the way he worked out and the way he looked, I think he's going to,

I think he's going to fly up. He's one guy. Another one would be. You think Tyler Smith goes first round even? I just with him, Does he get on the field consistently as a rookie? I don't know if he's ready for that. No, I think he can play guard as a rookie.

I don't think he can play tackle as a rookie. And you make a really good point. But like, would the Lions at 32 be willing to invest in a guy who, you know, who they're going to play at guard maybe the first year while they, with an eye towards playing at tackle? Because you remember, that was the case for, well, Titus Howard with the Houston Texans, but also most note. notably Laramie Tunsell.

Laramie Tunsell. Now, here's a scary name I'm going to throw at you. Greg Robinson, if I remember correctly, also played a little guard. I can't remember if he was guard before tackle or if he started off at tackle. But Greg had some past pro issues. And what people would always say when I'm one of those people was, well, you'll coach it. I mean, it'll get there for him. But look at the explosiveness.

Look at the size. Look at the traits. And it never, ever showed up and never manifested. So I'm assuming that Tyler Smith cuts down on his 11 holding penalties this year, but it may be 12. Yeah, you're probably in the bowl game. He got one too. But it's when you look at it, it's like he just grabs. He just, eh, I think I'm just going to grab them instead of sliding my feet.

That's the kind of stuff that I'm not 100% sure that you coach that out because that is a discipline. That's having the discipline to do what you're supposed to do when you're supposed to do it. And I don't think it's always a lock that guys will do that. The muscle memory kicks in, the history kicks in. So, yeah. But at guard, I think it's a little easier at guard, honestly, because he has to play tight and fast. I was a little disappointed with his three cone.

I thought he would do better. He had a 778 three cone, which the average starter in the NFL is about 7773. So just slightly below the average starter. So I was a little surprised by that. But I agree. I thought his position work was terrific. So any other player you want to hit on before we get out of here? We could go another hour based off what we saw.

There's so many. A guy who I really like a lot that I mentioned. Oh, see, I think Jolani Woods really moved up for me. Jalani, this whole process has moved up. But Jalani Woods is a guy that I took from a 59 to a high 61, which means I had them as a standard backup. Now I've got them as a, I've got them basically as a tight-in three. who is going to get on the field.

And Jolani Woods is a guy, I think, that really helped himself. And Skymore. I was too low on Skymore. I still am not all the way on the Skymore hype train like some other people are. And maybe I'm wrong on it. But there's just no way that you could watch his professional demeanor, that you could watch the way he attacked the drills, the way he attacked the testing. It's hard not to like Skymore.

Like everything about him. Oh, man, was he good? He was really good. So good. Yeah. And not surprised. I mean, a lot of quick hitters in that offense. And he's so good snatching the ball away from his body and making something happen.

And I know you were going to watch the DB drills later. Jalen Petrie. Because I know you're not as high in Petri as others. I want to get your, when we talk next. Yeah. How did he? Well, you tell me how you thought he looked. I thought he looked terrific.

That's great. Yeah. And he didn't run a 40, which, you know, that tells you something right there. He might regret not running the 40, but he had a really good three cone time, looked really good in the position stuff, caught the ball well. I like him quite a bit, and I thought he helped himself, so I'll be eager to get your feedback. And it's always funny. We always hear every year how the combine, oh, you know, these guys are locked in.

The combine's not going to make guys move up and down. Well, every year, we come out of the combine saying movers. I mean, every year this happens. It's going to be movers. And here's why. Yeah. We will. So, yes, scouts, scouts have to lock in their grades at a certain time so that they're not impacted by

noise so they're not scouting with their ears, as they say, where you don't hear things and change your opinion. And it's hard not to. I mean, it's hard not to for any of us to not hear the outside noise and make changes. We've all done it before. But what is happening, though, as coaches are getting their first look at some of these guys, because coaches, after the season's over, they go to their own free agents and other teams, free agents. And so for a lot of coaches, they really don't know these players. And so when they go to the combine, they're like, holy cats, look at this guy, look at that guy. And so what happens is, And depending on how strongly the voices are for the coaches in the building, the head coach,

and the position coaches, because it varies from team to team. You are going to see, you absolutely will see some guys get pushed up the board or pushed down the board based on coaches input. So that 100% does happen. Yeah, no doubt about it. Okay, Lance, we could talk for another hour, like I said, talk about Jake Kamarta, the Georgia punter and his 4-5, 640. I don't know what they're feeding those guys down in Athens, but whatever it is. Crazy. Yeah, Nick Saban's ordering a whole truckload of it. Another great combine. I mean, we have plenty of more data to go through.

And I mean, we'll be talking about it through the rest of this month as we get to Pro Day season. So we've got a lot coming up for you. Stay tuned for the athletic football show feed, Robert Mason Crew. Plenty of good things to play. And especially as we get into free agency, too. That's going to shake things up. Look for Lance's mock. Look for my mock this week. It should be interesting to compare the two. Until next week, he's Lance. I'm Dane. We'll talk to you next time. This was the athletic football show.