The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Buying or Selling NFL Offseasons: The Contenders + Titans head coach Brian Callahan

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

The ‘Buying or Selling’ series continues and this episode is all about the contenders. Robert Mays and former NFL offensive lineman Mitchell Schwartz evaluate the offseasons for the top 8 teams. Then, Titans head coach Brian Callahan joins the show to talk about his new role in Tennessee, Will Levis, coaching with his dad and much more.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Jam-packed show for you guys today. A little bit later, Titans Head Coach Brian Callahan is going to join us. Got to go down to Nashville earlier this month, spend a couple days with Brian, with the staff, just kind of get a sense of where the Titans are at this stage as they enter upon a new regime and a new era down there in Tennessee. So really enjoyed chatting with Brian about his.

his impressions of Will Levis, you know, just some of the moves that they made in the draft, working with his dad, play calling for the first time. Very fun conversation, excited for you guys to hear it. Before we do that, though, we are continuing our buy or sell series on every NFL offseason. We've already done the middle class teams. We've already done the playoff hopefuls as we described them. Today is the big one.

We are doing the contenders, the teams at the top of the Super Bowl odds list here to help me do that. It's our old buddy Mitchell Schwartz. Mitch, how you doing, man? I'm doing good. I don't do much running these days, so maybe we can walk at a leisurely pace and try not to break a sweat through these teams. But I kind of joke with people. The only running I do is on a golf course, and it's whether it's either like the hill I'm walking down is so steep, it's just easier to run, or I'm just kind of being a dummy, and I feel like I just need to run for a little bit to go find a ball. So yeah, how are you doing? I'm doing okay. I'm about to go on vacation, and I'm going to miss my peloton, which means I'm going to have to go on runs pretty much every single day at

the hotel. I'm not looking forward to it. That's the only time I run is when I'm out of other exercise equipment and I need to atone for the amount of food I'm about to eat in Japan. So I've got a lot of running on tap, unfortunately. They'll have bikes for you. They won't be a peloton. They'll have bikes. They'll have other forms of exercise. You're also, yeah, you're going to eat a lot, but you're going to be busy. That's not a place you go to, like, sit in a hotel for 12 hours. So you're going be on the mood during the day. You're going to be walking around and you're probably going to burn more calories than you think you're going to. So you might go on the extreme and you might be the weirdo that comes back and is down three or four pounds. I promise you that's not going to happen.

You should see the food itinerary that we have planned. All right, we're going to run through these eight teams today. We're trying to get through these at a decent pace because we've got Brian Calham at the end of this show. So we're going to make sure we have some room for that. Let's start the only place that we can't start with the defending champs, with a team that you know very well. Are you buying or selling the Kansas City Chiefs off season up to this point? I'm buying the off season that the Chiefs have had.

I am slightly selling what certain guys are doing off the field. And I'm mostly just talking about Rashia Rice in this instance and what that's going to look like for the team. So that's the hard part is I'm buying what the Chiefs are doing. I think they're doing a great job.

You know, drafted a guy who's going to compete to be the left tackle. Drafted another lineman who's, you know, they're really excited about on the interior. So if one of those guys goes down at some point during the season, they feel good about that depth. You know, losing, it sounds kind of funny to start out she's talk with losing Nick Allegretti, but losing a guy that can come in and play some good ball in case one of your three studs goes down is really important. And, you know, I think they've kind of filled that roll back with some young, fresh talent. I think receiver-wise picking up Hollywood Brown is going to be

great for the offense. The thing I'm concerned about, obviously, with Rishie, not necessarily being on the field for some slash all or portion of the season, however that plays out. is before the incidents happened, the coaches weren't really talking about Sky Moore at all. You know, the coaches were talking about, yeah, Travis and Hollywood and Rishie, it's going to be awesome to have them all together. There wasn't much Sky Moore talk in the discussion. And we kind of know Cadarious Tony's around. You know, they're still excited about him when he's on the field, when he is on the field, he usually is productive if he's in a good headspace. So that's going to be, you know, kind of that fourth piece of the puzzle. But Sky's going to have to take on a role at this point,

it seems like, you know, he could be on the roster bubble. You would think that if everyone is healthy, you know, he's a fifth or six guy potentially could be expendable. But now he's going to be a guy that's got to step up. So I think the receiver room is going to be better than last year. I don't think the offense is going to go through the lull they went through last year. But I'm definitely buying, you know, that offensively, yeah, you lose the guy like Sneed. It's difficult.

You're bringing back basically the entire defensive line. It's kind of a runnerback mentality along the defensive front. And, you know, I think we've kind of seen that the defensive front is more important as a unit than one individual corner as good as Snead played last year. So I'm really excited about that. And obviously, McDuffie's a great player. You know, you've got some interchangeable pieces back there, safetys. I think Justin Reed, what he can do. You know, we talk about Spags.

We talk about how good the scheme is, all that stuff. Like, yeah, it's great that Spags can get blitzes. It's great that he can get guys home 101. But having a safety that you can design a blitz for where you know the running back's going to be blocking the safety. and you can trust the safety to beat the running back one-on-one is just as valuable as, you know, scheming something up to get a free runner. And I think what Justin Reed can do blitzing from that position and when he gets one-on-one on running backs is really special. So, yeah, I'm buying everything, as you can tell.

I don't think that's being biased. I don't know. You might disagree with that. I don't disagree with that. I think I'm buying it, too. If you look at everything they've done, it all makes sense. You know, you pick Chris Jones over Sneed in terms of the guy that you want to extend. I think you do that every single time.

He is the linchpin of that defense. He's one of the best players in the NFL full stop. I get that. Even some of the smaller moves that they made, picking Jaden Hicks in the fourth round to try to maintain some of that safety flexibility that you had after losing Mike Edwards in free agency. They bring back Drew Trankel and Mike Dana.

By the way, I went back and I was watching a couple of games from last year. I love Mike Dana. I think that he is a really good player. There are so many moments in the couple of late season games I was watching and I was studying other teams. And I was like, is Mike Dana like way better at football? that I think he is because he's constantly popping when I'm watching this team. So even something small like that, I liked.

Yeah, he is. And, I mean, he got rewarded with a contract. I think it was, you know, three years for 24-ish. Yeah, it's a real contract. Yeah, which is probably more than anyone who doesn't study football or doesn't really watch the Chiefs would know about that guy. But he's turned into, you know, a guy who didn't play as much the first couple years. You look at him.

He's probably, you know, undersized for the defense fund position, kicked him inside. He doesn't really have the typical size to be, you know, a three-tech rusher in past rush situations. And two years ago, he was amazing and not just with like the speed or quickness that you think a defensive end would take advantage of guards with, with power. And I was really surprised to see him, you know, kind of bring, he's got that stout, you know, kind of Brandon Grahamish, not quite as thick, but the Brandon Graham style of play and leverage. And he brought that to guards and was walking them back and was a formidable piece of the third down rush packages. And then last year, I think, like you said, he had his most complete year. He was doing, you know, damage on the edge. He was kicking in on third downs and just a really complete player and a guy that solidifies

everything else you're doing across that defensive line. It allows other guys to, you know, Chris to be doubled, Karl Loftus and Amenahoo and other guys to take advantage of one-on-ones. And Dana has definitely done that. And it's not just as a pass-rusher specialist. It's not just, you know, as a run-stuffer, it's the total package. So it's a really valuable guy to have on the team. and, you know, personally knowing him just to see him get rewarded financially like that.

It's really cool. Yeah, I forgot that he got such a sizable deal. But again, when I was going back and watching it, though, he was really popping. And you look at the other moves that they made. I get the Kingsley-Suma-Tia pick in the second round. And I understand Hollywood Brown at $8 million. I think that's actually a pretty good deal. I have three questions that kind of give me a tiny bit of pause that keep this from being a full-scale-by.

One, is Xavier worthy the skill set they needed in that wide receiver room, especially when you consider the fact that they might lose Rishi Rice. So you've got two kind of undersized speed guys. You've got Cadarius, Tony, you lose MBS, you lose Rishie Rice, potentially for a decent chunk of the season. So you don't have much size, the yak ability, like some of the crossers that he was running last year. I just wonder how the rolls shake out. Second question on offense, do you have a left tackle for this year? Because as intriguing as Kingsley is in the upside, I still have questions about what it's going to look like.

in week one, what it's going to look like in week 10? I mean, that's a pretty big projection. And then the last one, I just can't get it out of my head, even though I understand why they did it. Did they do enough at corner after losing Sneat? Is relying on those two guys, whether it's Williams or Watson, whoever's going to get that role, and then you kind of lean on the flexibility you have with some of those three safety looks and the things we've seen from them in the last couple years, is that enough

in that position group? So those are the three, like, sort of looming questions that I have. have, but I don't think any of them doom this to the point where I'm selling what they did this offseason. Yeah, I think those are fair. In terms of the corners, you're kind of just trusting, again, the infrastructure, and you're trusting that a team knows what to look for in a draft. They then can develop those players, and they've had success with, you know, mid to later

around draft picks, and now they've had success with the, you know, first round at a corner, but the team has had success finding guys at the corner position, coaching them up and identifying players who are going to be, you know, really good football players. And so I think you're, you put a little bit of trust into that. You put a little bit of trust into the defensive line, being able to do their part and make life a little bit easier on the back end. And, you know, receiver-wise, they've talked a lot about the physicality of Xavier Worthy being a guy that's not just like a speed guy, but being strong and physical for his size.

For his size is very important part of this. Exactly. For his size. So I think he's, he doesn't necessarily fit, again, role that you're talking about, kind of an underneath guy or a guy who's going to go across the middle and be a physical presence. But he's not also just guy run fast. We like throw ball deep. Like he can do more stuff. He's, I know people talked about it, but he's had production early on in his career. He's not a one year wonder. He's not just a flash in the pant. He's fast. He has production.

He runs rats. He's more physical for his size than he's given credit for. And, you know, there's there's a vision for what they want them to be and i do think we saw it a little bit in the playoffs especially if teams are going to try to you know play more zero or kind of press you at the line being able to get the three plays a game where they're willing to take a chance and to rip their hearts out with a 40 plus yard pass i think it's something that the offense wants and it's something that uh having a guy like that allows you to do all right let's get to our next one here the baltimore ravens are you buying or selling the baltimore ravens off season Is it possible to be neutral?

I feel like you always have to buy a Ravens offseason just because they typically do smart things. I just don't think that they're going to be better. They were so good last year and they lost the defensive coach. And it's like, how do you feasibly get better from being like the powerhouse that they were? They ran into the Chiefs. They had a bad game against the Chiefs.

And that's what happened. But they were so good last year. So it's just like it's hard for me to like buy. them as a better team than last year. I don't think they're going to be a better team. I think they're going to be a similar team with worse coaching and maybe with worse circumstances, and they're not going to, you know, play as good. I mean, I don't know the right way to say that, but the results aren't going to be quite as good. They're not going to be as optimized as they were last year. I think that's the right way to think about it, especially on defense. Yeah, and that's the thing defensively.

Like, you know, you're able to sign guys and kind of get career years with some journeymen. I don't know, journeyman's the right word, because those are two pretty good players. Mercenary type guys. There you go. You're able to get career years with defensive ends. You're able to, you know, turn this defensive tackle into a stud and sign them to a big deal. You've got some young guys still in the pipe at the defense-aligned positions. You lose a linebacker and, you know, whether the, you know, Queen was a result of Roquan's greatness and you can, you know, pretty much put any mid to good player in there and he'll turn around because he's playing next to Roquan. I guess we'll see about that this year. but I just think they're going to be a really good team. They're always going to be a really good team if they're able to stay healthy. That's kind of always been the hit on them. They seem to be a team that gets hurt more than other teams.

Lamar has dropped a bunch of weight, and I guess he's going to try to go back to maybe being a little bit more fleet of foot. And so whether that brings a different wrinkle that I think the offense has not had the past few years, I mean, we've talked about this before. I've said this. Lamar has not had the same long speed of the last two seasons that he used to have. Whether he gets that back this, here, whether it was a weight thing, whether it was, you know, groin tightness or some sort of immobility

that having more weight on him put on him, or he's just played a lot of football relative to his age and he's slowing down very slightly. I don't know. But if they can get that home run threat with him at the running position, then that's another addition to the offense that could transform it, because, you know, he's able to run that play against the chiefs where he breaks through and I think old school Lamar just runs away and has a touchdown, he like slows down to turn and start stiff-stiff-farming Sneed because he knows he can't break it away. So I'm kind of curious to see what he looks like as a runner and how much of that they want to reincorporate into the offense. But yeah, man, they were so good last year. It's just, it's hard to be better than that.

And that's where I land too. The way that I was kind of categorizing it is it's a sell for now. And pretty simply, they're just not as good as they were last year when they were a championship Roster. They're not as good on paper. If you look at the offensive line specifically, you lose Zitler, you lose John Simpson, you lose Morgan Moses, and I have questions about how they're replacing them.

Is it going to be Andrew Vorhees, who you draft in the seventh round, who was hurt, now he's back healthy. They signed Josh Jones in free agency. Roger Rosengarden is potentially going to be their right tackle as a rookie second round pick. This is the thing with the Ravens, though. The Raiders waived John Simpson at the end of the

2022 season. They signed him for nothing, and then this offseason he was worth $6 million a year to the Jets. They've done a very, very good job of piecing things together pretty much every single year. So that's why even on paper, if they're not better than they were last year, I want to have some patience with this because they deserve the benefit of the doubt. But that doesn't change the fact that they've lost a decent amount of talent in very important position groups. Gino, Gino Stone gave them flexibility at safety. Now they drafted Nate Wiggins in the first round.

So they have a kind of a glut at corner. What does that mean with the way that you're going to use Kyle Hamilton? So there's just a lot of questions that creep in when you look at the moves they've made or the lack of moves they've made. I still think they're going to be a very, very good team. It's just hard to get overly excited about what they've done because the roster is undeniably not as talented right now as it was the day they lost to the Chiefs. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, that does anyone like actually have a quote unquote glut at quarterback. I feel like that's, you know, the one position that you just, like, can't have too many good players of, and no one really does have too many good players. They just have more starting

word. If you think Wiggins can play right away, right? They use a first-round pick on them. They have more starting caliber players there than they do at other positions that are theoretically needs and that other teams do. But Brandon Stevens is going to be a free agent at the end of the year. I mean, this is what good teams do. They plan in contingencies for the future, but it still leaves them with less less flexibility at a position group at safety where they had a ton of it last season. Yeah, I just get back to like, and kind of your point on the offensive line, we talked about the defense line, they're able to develop at all the positions really well. I think up front, the focus on physicality and mentality and toughness kind of bears fruits,

and you don't have to be quite as skilled maybe as some other offenses or some other teams, but it's going to be physical. They're going to have the right mindset. They're going to test each other in training camp. They're going to, you know, pop some pads. and that the Ravens way of playing football, I think, is something. It's just, it's hard for me to think that that defense is going to be better. I think you could pretty comfortably say it's not going to be.

Yeah, it's just how far down is that drop-off? And is it 80% coaching, 20% players? Is it 50-50? Like, what's the drop-off going to look like? And where is that drop-off going to come from? Because I think, again, we trust that the skill drop-off probably isn't that much. You know, they're able to lose players and get the compics. you know, kind of keep that train rolling. But the coaching drop-off is the big question mark.

I think we all kind of think that it's going to be pretty extreme. And let's say, all right, you lose Clowny and Free Agency. Again, somebody that had arguably one of the best seasons of his career in that ecosystem. Who are you going to replace him with? And is it as simple as, we'll just throw the next guy in there when you don't have a Mike McDonald to maximize it? So I think that's the problem is that the drop-off and maybe the depletion is coming from two different directions, and I'm not sure how they correct for it. But again, they deserve a lot of confidence and a lot of inherent confidence with the way that they've been able to do things, especially late in the offseason.

I mean, there's a chance that there's a move or two coming here somewhere down the road that makes us worry a little bit less about a couple of those things that look like problem areas right now. Let's get to the NFC and the San Francisco 49ers. Are you buying or selling the San Francisco 49ers offseason? I'm going to have to sell it a little bit. Again, this is just a team that's been so good. It's hard for them to, like, get so much better.

But I feel like the defensive line's not going to be as good. Armstead's gone. They're able to bring in some guys. You know, Leonard Floyd's been a good player. Collins has been a good defensive tackle. I just feel like they're starting to age out just a smidge on the defensive line. I feel like they haven't been as dominant as they have in the past. You know, Greenlock coming off the injury.

we don't exactly know what that's going to look like, but again, it's hard for me to say he's going to be 100% of the way he's been in the past few years as good as he's been. Secondary-wise, they're good when they're healthy. It seems like they always have the one guy that if he gets hurt, the defense kind of falls off for a little bit

until they stabilize. So I don't think defensively they're going to be quite as good as they've been. Now, they had a coaching change as well. Kyle wanted to get a guy in who's going to play a little bit more of a defensive style that he's comfortable with and that he doesn't have to burn timeouts on

when he hears the defensive calls coming in. So are they going to get, you know, a slight bump in terms of like a holistic viewpoint of what Kyle wants the defense to be to mirror his offense? And then offensively, I mean, I think they're going to be as good as they've been in the past. I don't think they're necessarily going to be better. I'm really curious how the IYuk thing kind of turns out. I'm curious what Debo's mindset's going to be. They just seem like each offseason, the guy that they decide to wait until training camp to pay money to doesn't have as good of a season as he should. and as you keep drafting these first round

wide receivers and now Dibah's going to be looking overshoulder, all the trade rumors, Ayo's going to be disgruntled unhappy, the first rounder's going to come in, it's historically been a little bit difficult to get on Cheneyhan's good side right out of the box. So I'm selling that aspect a little bit that you just might not have guys as fully bought in

and as happy and as productive as you'd want them to be right out of the gate. But again, I think by the end of the season, they're going to be a top team or the top team in the NFC. it's just the expectations are so high and they've been so good that it's hard to say that they're going to be better. And so I got to sell it. I'm selling it too. It's a mixed bag for me. I can understand some of the moves that they made

defensively. I think replacing Armstead with Malik Collins, that's a thoughtful decision. Like, okay, we're going to get 80% of the production when they're on the field, but Armstead missed seven games again last year. Malie Collins has been available more often than Armstead has. So I think you could make an argument that that's a wash. but the other moves they made along the defensive line, like Yitor Gross Matos had 19 pressures last year, and they're paying him a decent chunk of change in a way that it doesn't feel necessary.

You could have brought the next guy and the Chris Krasurik career rehabilitation discount plan in there, and you could have done just as well as you would have paying Gross Matos what they did. The Leonard Floyd contract also seems pretty rich for a guy that's going to be 31, 32. He's been decently productive,

but it's hard to get excited about either of those moves. in the secondary, I understand what they did. Drafting Renardo Green in the second round, they desperately needed another outside corner last year, so they didn't have to rely on Ambrie Thomas. So the defense, I'm okay for the most part with the way that they approached it. The thing that tilts it the wrong direction for me,

I'm still worried they didn't do enough up front. They drafted Dominic Poonie in the second round. They left that right tackle spot alone. They signed Chris Hubbard as their swing tackle. After what happened in the Super Bowl last year and just looking at the state of that offensive line, I just wish they had committed a little bit more wholesale to making sure that was going to be more of a strength

than a concern by the end of the season. And I just don't think that gets there with one third round pick when you use another first rounder on a receiver. Yeah, I mean, obviously this has kind of been Kyle's thing since he's been in San Francisco is... That's the problem, is that that's not what they do, but we just get him a pass for that?

Well, no, the thing is it's... I think it limits the... ceiling of what the offense could be. I mean, you look at what he was able to do in Atlanta, and they had Julio and some other okay players at the skill positions, and they had an awesome offensive line. Now, in San Francisco, it's been, let's make an awesome skill position group, and we're going to have a great left tackle, and we're going to be okay elsewhere. I mean, they did sign Alex Mack, but he was on the back end of his career. They've signed some other guys at certain points in their career. They've obviously drafted him with Glynchie in the first round.

that didn't, I don't think, pan out the way they necessarily wanted it to. It worked out just fine for Mike McClinchie, if you look at his bank account right now. It worked out just fine for him. But yeah, it's a position that they're able or they're willing to like throw a dart or two every now and again. They're not willing to take the holistic like, we're going to make this a strength, the way they're trying to make receiver slash Tadena strength. So that's the area that's a little bit concerning. Again, it's just you're trusting Kyle to kind of make everything.

right. You're trusting that the offense is easier for the offensive line than any indie reed offense is for an offensive line and that they're good enough at the position. You're kind of, again, going with that like, let's just be good enough across the board. We don't have to be great at every spot. We don't have to have, you know, Trent at every spot. We just need to be good enough across the board. The question is, are they good enough when they're in the playoffs, when they're facing good defenses, when they get behind by 10 points, when all these things that we kind of stereotype them into. But I just, for what their team-building philosophy is,

I can't really, like, grade them on my curve. You know, you kind of just have to grade them on their curve, and their curve is clearly we want to get receivers. We want to get, you know, be able to maybe beat man coverage a little bit better on the outside. We want to open up the offense and make life easier for that offenseal line. And so even with that in mind, again, I still got to go with the cell. I think the problem is that they pay Debo what they pay Debo

and then they get to the end of last season and they realize that his skill set is a little bit too specific for them to be the offense that they want when defenses are playing them a certain way. So you're almost having to compound that problem by investing further in the position when you already are more invested in it than pretty much every other team in the week.

And I think that's the issue at the end of the day. So do you think that was a bad e-vail or do you think that was they're just using him different than they did two years ago? Like, where do you think that went wrong? I think that is a wear and tear thing where he's just not the same guy physically. He's had some nagging injuries.

And him at 25 million a year, whatever he's making now, is just a different sort of value proposition than it was when he was a second round pick and you could kind of do whatever you wanted with him. I mean, it's easy to give a guy making 800 grand five or six carries a game. But I think ultimately that caught up with them.

Do you mean that's fair? Yeah, and also I feel like caught up with him mentally. I don't think he loved to do that. You know, he kind of voiced his displeasure a little bit that, you know, I'm here to be a receiver, not a running back. So, yeah, that's where I asked, like, was it eval or was it kind of usage? Because did they have in mind that they were going to keep using him the same way and get him, you know, 20 touches a game, eight carries, you know, four screens and, you know,

eight balls down the field? Or did they just, like, not understand the exact. receiver that he was or did he just, you know, fall off a little bit skill-wise like you're talking about? And so, I don't know, I was just curious on your read on it because I think we kind of understand that Iuk's the better, you know, quote-unquote receiver. He's more valuable. He does more of the things that you need to do to be good, you know, down in and down-out. So it's just an interesting thing as they draft, you know, as people say, the guy that's going to replace Steve on a year. Well, I think the problem is you're paying him like he's an elite receiver in the league,

but he doesn't have the flexibility to allow your offense to be whatever it wants near the end of the season when teams are playing you in a specific way. So I think that's what makes an elite receiver is that you can use them in all of these different capacities. You can't really with him. So I think you've painted yourself into a corner a little bit when you've invested what you have in him. And I think that was the problem. Yeah, I think that's fair.

I mean, again, they're probably thinking like we have an elite offensive player and our coaches will make it right. And, you know, clearly that it didn't. seemed to be the case that in the biggest stage last year, I mean, it wasn't, they weren't able to do that against, you know, a very physical chief's defense that like to press and like to get in guys' faces. Let's get to our next one here, sticking in the NFC, the Philadelphia Eagles. Are you buying or selling the Eagles offseason?

So I'm actually buying the Eagles off season. I think this is, I mean, they throw so much money around, man, which is great for the players. It's hard not to buy it. The fact that they can just eat $21 million of dead money for Hassan I could just pay Bryce off like it's nothing. It helps when your credit card limit is, when you have the black card, that's what the Eagles are shopping with right now. It's like it's the black card that we only pay half now and you pay half in 10 years.

They're willing to throw a ton of money into the future. I don't necessarily love that style of team building. I think eventually it catches up with you, even though the cap is exploding. And, you know, in a few years, the cap's going to be $300 million and they're going to have $60, or 60 million in dead money. Like they're only going to be playing with X percentage of cap. But again, this is a cycle that keeps fulfilling itself. I just feel like, you know, Lane's going to retire probably in the next year or two.

It seems like Kelsey retired. Obviously, they just re-sign the two receivers to longer contracts. Milata, Dickerson. Yeah, it seems like there's a bit of an inflection point on like this team, the way it's been built with the guys they've had is kind of coming to an end. And this seems like kind of the last year of that. Obviously, you know, Fletcher retired and the defensive line that's, you know, been kind of a staple. A lot of those guys are kind of shuffling out.

Again, the O-line is going to have some turnover here. Hertz, there's now questions on, you know, what kind of quarterback he can be, especially if he's not 100% healthy physically. Will he look the way he did a few years ago physically after an offseason of, you know, getting healthy? Obviously, they're able to, you know, we just talked about the Niners, you know, putting all their resources into the receiver position. Philly puts all their resources into every position. So their offense is pretty well-rounded in terms of, you know,

QB receiver, uh, offensive line, running back now, um, defense align secondary. Uh, you know, they just, they've got resources at every, you know, position group now. And again, I'm buying because I feel like there's a transition period happening and I feel like this is kind of the last year of the old regime. I think next year could be a weird year that's a bit of a transition year and then, you know, if we're saying this is year one, year three could then look better on the backside of it. So yeah, I think they're in a good position to compete and to succeed. And I'm excited to watch them because I think they got a lot of fun guys to watch

at every level, every position. There are two teams at the same time right now. If you look at these position groups, that's what it feels like because they can afford to be paying the past and the future simultaneously. The son Redick is still on the books for a huge chunk of money, They're paying Bryce Huff to be a younger replacement for him. James Bradbury and Darius Slay are still on the roster, but they used a first round pick on Quignan Mitchell. They sign C. Day Gardner Johnson and Free Agency, but now they also have Cooper DeGene to play some sort of nebulous role within the defense.

So you cover all your bases when you can just have 20 options at every single one of these positions because you don't really have to atone for the money that you've spent in previous years. That's what they feel like. So it's hard to dislike what they've done this. offseason because they plugged pretty much every single hole based on the way that they build the roster. Yeah, I think, again, like, player-wise, I feel like we think they've done a pretty good job.

I think coaching-wise are going to be better this year. Yes, and I think you have to get aboard with both of those. They have proven adults in charge of both of those rooms. Yeah, that's one way to put it. I think that, you know, Kellyn Moore stars faded in a little bit, but I still think, you know, from what we think that he could do, obviously last year, who knows what the charges

and then what goes on down there, but I think that we're more excited about a Kellynmore offense than what the 2023 Eagles offense look like. And we're definitely more excited about this version of the defensive coaching staff than whatever the heck transpired last year. That's for sure.

What I'm, we talked about this on the show I did with Bob Stern yesterday about the lingering NFC East questions we had from last year. And my question was like, how did Kellynmore do? in Los Angeles. Like, no one was paying attention to the Chargers in the back half of the season.

And going back and watching, I think you could talk yourself into it because a lot of his blind spots, run game, et cetera, that's stuff that Stought one is going to handle. So if you just brought him in to be your drop back pass guru and somebody that's going to be able to give you answers against pressure, and that's the focus of his role and his appeal, I actually think it meshes very well with a proven, arguably league best offensive line coach and run game coordinator. So that's why I'm a little bit more excited about Callumore and Philly than I would be if he was in charge of the entire offensive vision in some other team.

Yeah, I mean, this gets a little bit off topic, but like halfway into last year being like, Mike McCarthy is like outperforming Kellan Moore. What in the world is going on? That was so strange. I mean, I don't know that anyone expected. I tweeted something at the time and all the Cowboys fans were like, dude, we know about this. We've not been super happy with Kellyn and we feel like McCarthy.

can do a better job. I mean, who knows, might be, you know, some post facto analysis there. But, yeah, that was a weird wrinkle to last year for sure that makes it a little bit questionable that, again, we think that Kellan can be what we thought he could a few years ago. But I do think, especially compared to last year, you know, the offensive side coaching is going to be better. What do you think about the Sequin deal? Three years, 38 million, 26 million guaranteed. It's essentially the Jonathan Taylor contract, but with a bump in the cap. So you're getting a slight discount on what Jonathan Taylor was getting paid by the Colts last year. Yeah, so I think it fits stylistically with the Eagles because Seekwon historically has been a home run hitter as a running back, which I usually hate that term.

But if you look at him, he usually has one or two really long runs and a bunch of runs that aren't so good. And so the kind of space that that offense can create, the kind of space of that offense align in particular can create, if you're able to give him a few more creases to hit those. home runs and you think that he's healthy enough to, you know, resemble a version of Sequin that you're happy with. I think he really fits with what they do and what they're looking for. And you're now able to turn the run game into an explosive kind of chunk gaining part of the offense. And again, that's going to take a little bit of the heat off jail in and makes things a little bit easier for everybody. So yeah, it's a lot of money. Again, they like throwing cash and cap around to all elements and all extremities of, you know, space and time.

But I think, okay, so here's the other thing with running backs. From a simple perspective of like, is it a good deal? Is it not a good deal? How valuable are they? We can all do that kind of game. Teammates still love running backs. And guys in locker rooms still love running backs. They still love their teammates.

They still think that the guy with the ball is doing the cool thing. Yeah, exactly. So like having a guy that everyone loves on that team to do fun and cool stuff, I think that's great. And I think that's maybe the thing that gets underlooked in terms of, like, the team-building perspective of signing a running back or looking at it from that way. So I'm totally okay with that contract. I mean, again, I think stylistically he fits what they do and what he can bring.

And I think guys should be rewarded for being really good and fun players. And they're not going to make $30 million a year like receivers do. They're buying the dip. That's exactly what they're doing. They think it's swung too far the other way, so they're trying to get in on an inefficiency. It's the most Eagles bullshit ever, but that's clearly what they're trying to do here. We'll see how it works out. Let's stick in the NFC here again.

The Detroit Lions, who've had an event full week, are you buying or selling the Detroit Lions off season? I'm buying it. You know, I think they've picked up some good players. They haven't lost a ton. They lost Jonah Jackson up front, but, you know, he's kind of been on and off a little bit, especially last year. I think that they're gonna, I mean,

they've got so many other good linemen, but they've shown that they're able to kind of develop that position and have good starters there. I just think the coaching staff is, honestly, this doesn't even get to like Ben Johnson,

offensive guru and Glenn and like all these things. I think Campbell and his mentality and not the like biting kneecaps and we're going to be physical, but how really was telling guys after that, you know, lost last off season that, hey, we might not get this to this spot ever again.

Like, there's a reality to the way he's, seems to coach guys that they're not going to take things for granted. Obviously, they're signing, they've thrown out three pretty huge contracts with St. Brown, Sewell, and now golf. But the misconception with those kind of deals is that it's a lot of money to pay guys, but the first year of those contracts is always the lowest in terms of the cap. So you're looking at it for just this year in the cap perspective of it.

I don't think there's anything to worry about, and they still got a bunch of other good players. 2026 is when it gets dice. That is when it gets dice. If you look at it right now, Goff's cap hit in 2026 is $70 million. In 2026, they will be paying the combination of Jared Goff, Amon, Rah, St. Brown, and Pentee Soule, $131 million against the cap.

And that's okay. When you have great players that are worth paying top of the market extensions, it's good to get in front of them, which they have here, and this is the reality that you now have to live. It does get harder. Like, that's just the right. reality of this. It just gets harder. So you need the Sam

Laporte's on cheap rookie deals. You need to keep hitting on these guys. You need Brian Branch for $750,000 being one of the best nickels in the league. And that's how great teams sustain. But they're going to be fine for the next couple years. But when those contracts really start to kick in, it's important to acknowledge that the

margin for error does shrink considerably. Yeah. And again, I just get back to like, this isn't a team that been built up and had success and it's going to rest on their laurels and feel like, all right, we got to figure it out. Like, the staff is going to come at it from a perspective that, like, we weren't good enough last year.

We need to keep improving. We need to be more physical. We need to handle things better. And you combine that with good scheme and good players. And I think they've just built a really good organization at this point. And so that's where I feel like I'm buying what they're doing because, again, they are getting, they're being proactive and trying to kind of beat the market at different spots. You know, you're paying an offensive tackle top of the money, top of the market money,

and he's still like 22, 23. He's going to have like six contracts by the time he's done. You know, you're paying a receiver. I love that. That's the first place your mind goes is how much money the right tackle is going to eventually make. I don't blame you. No, it's more just like you're putting money into a guy who's super young. You know, I think where you can get a rye with some of the major contracts is, like we just,

we talked about with Debo, you know, you're putting money into a guy who was young, but who's super physical and the body might break down. a little bit and make it not a value proposition. But they're putting money into premium positions and they're putting money into guys who are still on the right side of the agent curve and still playing really good ball. And to your point, like, yeah, life's going to get more difficult and it's going to be more challenging. Now, front office wise, they've shown that they're not always necessarily going to prioritize certain positions that people like over other positions at certain points in drafts that could be more valuable. But in terms of, again, combining all the things that

you need to make a really good team, I just think they have it from all perspectives. They're really well coached, again, mentality and scheme-wise. They've got all the players. And front office-wise, they've seemed to be able to identify good football players. And they're willing to take a proactive approach, kind of an Eagles-ish approach at throwing money that seems maybe a little bit crazy from the get-go, but you're beating the market. And now the market's going to catch up this year and next year and those contracts are going to look fine. The golf thing is the only one where I think you can make an argument that it's an overpay in terms of like his skill set and his positioning within the hierarchy of quarterbacks around

the league. But I think this is always going to happen. He's played very well within your system. He's been a linchpin of everything you are as an organization, as a culture. He's beloved seemingly within that building. Even if you're overpaying a little bit for just the lack of flexibility he gives you on offense, right? Like everything else has to be so right because of his limitations physically.

I think that's where you can have a little bit of hesitation and a little skepticism about how this is going to play out. But I have no problem with the contract. I have no problem with the timeline because I think it's just a further expression of what this team and what this front office has been from the moment that they took over. Yeah. So in a perfect world, if you kind of take all that stuff off the table and you're just evaluating like golf the quarterback, would you put him in, I don't even want to say this as like a, a top of the market deal because he's not advancing in a percentage that's commensurate with what the cap has jumped. Yeah, it's a second

tier quarterback contract after the next group gets paid. Would you rather he have signed this contract or like if you were just putting a dollar figure on golf the quarterback and you could get him for X price, do you think he's more aligned with this with the Daniel Jones 40 million or with like the Gino Baker 25

to 30? Like where do you think he actually slots in? 40. I think I think he should make as much or more. I mean, if Kirk Cousins is worth $45 million a year at 36 years old coming off in Achilles, then I think you can absolutely make an argument that Jared Gough has worth this. And I'm sure that's the argument his people made. Yeah, so I think that's what maybe people are losing sight of is, yeah, you're kind of barely beating like Jalen and Mahomes and Burrow in like the 52-ish range. But it's really Daniel Jones-ish plus inflation.

Like I think you're looking more in line of what that is two years later than, what, you know, these other guys made at the true top of the market in the past year. And then to your point, like, if you're already looking at that and you're saying, well, that's 45 to 48, the difference between that and 52 is kind of negligible. Yeah, I mean, he's going to get all 170 million of those guarantees, which is pretty damn impressive. He's going to be a very rich man by the time this is over. And I'm happy for him. I mean, the guy was completely written off.

He was cast aside. He was thrown in the NFL dumpster. And now he's going to have made $300 million. in his career by the time we get to like 2027. So good for Jared Goff, man. He's like living the Stafford dream of like first overall pick. Market setting contract, market setting contract. Like he's getting all those benchmarks.

It's pretty cool. Looking at some of the other smaller moves that they made, I can get on board with all of them. I think Zightler is a great low cost replacement at guard. I totally understand that. Really like what they did with DJ Reader. I think you could make an argument that outside of the top shelf of defensive Lyman and Free Agency, Christian Wilkins, the Neil Hunter. He might have been the best player available.

And I love just dropping him in. He fits mentality-wise, tonally, everything that they are. Totally understand them loading up at corner. They've given themselves a lot of options there. The Carlton Davis trade, you spend a first-round pick and a second-round pick. I'm kind of man, sticky guys that allow you to play the way that you want to. Totally get all of that. My big questions, I have two.

Did they do enough at pass-rrusher and did they do enough at wide receiver? You're banking a lot on Marcus Davenport, who's never. ever healthy and James Houston who had one small stretch two years ago to really be the thing that lifts you on the edge and I just don't know where the other past catching option comes from. Even if you can project some development from Jameson Williams, it just feels like they're missing a big body kind of possession third and eight skill set within that offense right now. And I just, I can't get over that. Yeah, but I guess how do you compare it to last year?

Like, do you think that they're? I just, if they had Josh Reynolds again, I would feel fine. If they had a Josh Reynolds-esque player, I'd be like, okay, great. Cool. Yeah, well, this is, I mean, to your point, when you do start paying guys, there are concessions and there are kind of team-building things that- There sure are. Yeah, I thought the defense-aline-wise, I mean, I love Raider. He's been such a good player for so long.

I think you have to be a little worried, you know, injury-wise that he's going to be able to hold up into-contract number three. To be what he's been. Obviously, Davenport, injury-wise, but talking about a physical couple of signings right there. It just, again, there was Tyler, you know, obviously the corners, like they keep adding guys who fit their ethos of how they want to play football. And I do think this kind of comes into play with what we talked about with the Ravens, like the physicality, the way you go about business. I think there's more of a premium on it in today's game of football than maybe there was, you know, five, ten years ago that as things have gotten spread out, as things have gotten, this isn't like a football is not as physical as it used to be kind of diatribe. But I do think when we look at teams that are willing to bring it every week and have the right mentality, those teams typically have a lot of success.

Like the 49ers, as good as they are skill-wise, like it's always, they're a really tough team on both sides of the ball, and it's really hard to play against. Baltimore, historically and last year especially, they're tough and physical at every position. The Lions now embody that. And so, yeah, you might be lacking a little bit in terms of pure past rush or in terms of, you know, the receiver flexibility to do some things on certain down-and-distance. but I think you're just looking and holistically, we're building this the right way, we've got the right mentality and mindset, and that is going to overcome, you know, a few deficiencies that maybe isn't a top 10 or top 15 group and we can get away with, you know, in this case, 16 to 22, because we can overcome it with the mindset and, you know, with the way we play football and us forcing the teams we're playing into things that they don't want to. I think that's exactly right. I have full faith in their ability to kind of overcome those. small deficiencies. And I think schematically,

that's also a way that they can do it. I mean, they just have such an advantage with what Ben Johnson gives them. So I'm with you on that. Cincinnati Bengals, are we buying or selling the Bengals off season?

Like, every part of me wants to sell it, but it's hard not to buy it because like, everything they did make sense. I know. It's like, it's the most like, I don't know. I'm not really excited about many things,

but like I think they're going to be better. I think Burroughs are going to be healthier. I mean, a couple of Instagram videos from the Bengals account in and I'm like my wrist looks pretty good he's snapping that thing off and that thing's got some velocity I just think they're

again they've kind of gotten to the point where I think they're some of the parts team they've always kind of been that defensively but I think in terms of what they are as a full football team at this point yeah they just they make good moves they were patient on the draft they draft good players at the right positions

you know, they draft an offensive tackle who at 6,8, 3, 50, and what, 12% body fat is the smallest guy in the room because you've got Orlando Brown and Trump Brown. You know, so they're, they've understood that Burrough needs to be protected, and they made that a point of emphasis that they haven't in the past. Defensively, I think they're going to be better than last year. The Hendrickson thing's a little bit weird with the retirement and I want more money and how that's going to play out. and the same with Higgins, but I feel like those guys are going to be on the field, and as long as Burroughs stays mostly healthy,

I just think that they're a really good football team, and I like what they've done, and they seem to have a plan and stick to it and not panic and not make moves that they're going to regret later. They kind of trust the developmental process, and they've shown the past five years that they really understand what they're doing. Yeah, I appreciate everything that they did.

I think the combination of Trump Brown and Ameris Mims is a very good way to replace Jonah Williams. I think it's probably an upgrade there. The Trump-bound contract on itself is a very good deal. The concern with him is injury and him staying on the field. Well, you drafted a guy 18th overall that you don't want to have to play right away, but he's not a bad contingency plan if you have to throw him in there. And the same thing goes at a couple other positions.

They bring in Sheldon Rankins and draft Chris Shankins in the second round as a way to replace DJ Reader. They bring back Von Bell and sign Gino Stone because they were not living that life again at safety that they had to last year, giving up all those explosive plays. So I get it. I mean, I think everything they did was in line with holes that had crept up on the roster and weaknesses that had crept up last year. My question about the Higgins thing is, is it worth losing him for what is probably going

to be a third round comp pick just to be able to get everything you can out of the 20204 season? Because that is the bet that they made. That is the decision they came to. We're fine with him walking in free agency because we're trying to win a super in 2024. I wonder if that is the best maximization of short and long term. I don't hate it, but there's a little question that is kind of there for me. Yeah, and again, this gets into these decisions have like on-field impact that goes beyond like

he plays 12 games and has these kind of stats and puts up like if he's kind of checked out mentally, I shouldn't say checked out. I mean, that's not fair. but like if you're going into this year and you feel disrespected by the team, and this does seem to be the case. I mean, the franchise tag is supposed to be, we want to keep this guy long term, we weren't able to come to an agreement,

we're going to put the tag on him, and we're going to negotiate in good faith and sign the guy to a deal. And everyone else has gotten huge contracts. So this year, actually, most teams are using it in a proper way. I guess the chiefs you could argue didn't necessarily do that because it didn't seem like they had the highest possibility of resigning Sneed. But in this case, it doesn't seem like Sinci is doing a right by the player. They're just squatting on his rights and saying, we can pay you one year for X amount of money,

and that's just how it's going to be. And so, again, you kind of risk losing the guy to a degree. Now, Higgins is a professional. He's not going to go out there and go through the motions and put bad tape and not compete and all those things. But similar to what I talked about with the San Francisco guys, like, if he holds out for a while, doesn't sign his deal, shows up to camp late, isn't able to get into peak football shape right away. He's had some soft tissue stuff the past few years, you know, is on and off the field,

fighting through things. And you're not maximizing the present and you didn't get what you could have for the future. And that's the downside. Right. So that's, again, the downside of using the tag in the way that they are. They're kind of forcing like you're going to be disgruntled and we're just going to trust that it'll be okay. It's not like a happy. They could just sign them to one year 30 million and just say, hey, we know this isn't what you want. We're going to give you a little bit more than the franchise value, and then we'll let you be a free agent, but we want you to feel great about this year and feel like you got more financial security than the franchise tag. And that would be an awesome solution. But that's not the way Cincinnati does business. So they're just going to trust that

like the guy has to show up and he has to go to work and he's going to put his best foot forward. Let's get through these next two pretty quickly here. The Buffalo Bills. Are you buying or selling the Buffalo Bills offseason? I'm buying the off season. I don't know that it's going to make them a better team this year. I still think they will be very good, but I think they kind of needed to do what they did in terms of moving on from all the bigger names, but guys who, you know, are probably on the other side of the age curve and not playing, you know, the quote unquote best ball in their career, and they need a bit of a refresh there. I do think

what McDermott's done on the defense side of the ball has been good. It's just been health every year, health defensively. If they keep guys healthy, they're pretty damn good. And if they don't, they're not quite as good. offensively, I think Allen gives you a certain floor that's extremely high. I think, you know, O-line-wise, they've... Allen and the offensive line, in my opinion. The fact that they're offensive line and they could run the ball the way that they did,

that combined with having Josh Allen, that makes me feel very good about what the baseline of the offense can look like, no matter who's out there catching passes. Yeah, I think they've prioritized that to be, you know, like good at all positions, good across the board, and then the O-line as a unit is going to perform as a top five, top-eight unit. You know, Dawkins is a guy that probably is better for, you know, quote-unquote, O-line guys or guys who watch film than maybe the general perception of him.

But, yeah, I think it's Allen quarterback. I think we trust that guys are going to get open enough for him to be able to find him. But I think they needed to turn the page on a lot of the older guys who are bigger names. And, you know, the chiefs kind of went through something like this a few years ago. go with Marcus Peters, Justin Houston, Eric Berry, kind of turned the page on some bigger names. And you might take a hit for one year that the young guys aren't as ready as you think they are, but it's something that needs to be done. And yeah, so I'm buying it. I'm intrigued by the combination of skill sets at the past catcher group.

You know, the combination of I like Khalil Shakir. I think he's a good player. You have Coleman, who's like that big ball winner now. Curtis Samuel and the ways that you could potentially use him, they decide MVS. So that's another kind of big bodied speed receiver that they can drop in. You combine that with the tight ends and I actually think it works. Last one here. Houston Texans. You buying or selling the Houston Texans offseason.

Houston I'm buying. I think they've done, I mean, obviously this piggybacks off the Diggs thing, but I feel like they're, they have a good offenseal line. They have, you know, two tackles who played some really good football. They've got some good guys on the interior. They're trusting in their quarterback to kind of be able to lead things. they're trusting them the head coach to be able to, this is kind of Lions-ish, where I think the way they play football

and I think the mentality that they have overcomes like that we're young and we're good and we had a good season and we're going to feel really good about ourselves. Like I think they just go about things the right way and they're able to kind of push through that, you know, the early stages of what that could look like.

You know, defensively, they got some guys are going to be better. Again, similar to Detroit, I just think they're building it correctly from all positions and then you've got the quarterback on the young contract, and so you're able to throw money around, you're able to get Hunter, you're able to sign some other guys,

you're able to get digs. Like, you can utilize all aspects of every position group and all the different ages too. And so you can get when now guys, you can kind of prepare for the future. Yeah, I'm excited about this team. I'm buying it just because I appreciate the mindset. You can hem and haul on some of the value.

Like the Joe Mixing, trade and contract were totally unnecessary. Well, the trade wasn't, but then when they signed him to that deal, it was like, does that have to happen? There is no reason that you should have. So next year, he's nine and a half million against the cap in 2025, and he has $8 million in dead money. So the best case scenario is he's going to count $8 million against the cap for you next year.

And if you look at it, that's my only concern with this team. They've made their commitments. They have $250 million in commitments in 2025. So the moves that they made, Hunter, extending Dalton Schultz, Danico Autry, is Eza Shire going to get Joe Mixin. These are the moves that their splashes are probably done unless they move money around heading into next year. So if you're okay with this version of the Texans roster plus whatever they get in the draft,

being the group that they're going to push for a championship with over the next two seasons, then I think you can buy it. And because I have faith in the quarterback and because I have faith in the staff and the infrastructure. I'm probably on that side of the line, but I can understand falling on the other side if you're a little bit more skeptical about guys that are getting a little bit older,

guys that maybe, you know, all the guys that they side, Hunter's in his 30s, Audrey's in his 30s. I mean, these are players that are not 24 years old getting first cracks at free agency. So there is some risk involved in the moves that they made,

but I just appreciate a team putting their foot all the way down on the floor, hitting the gas and going for it. And that's exactly what the Texans have done. Yeah, I mean, it gets back to like the Herbert thing. Like, did the Chargers do the absolute best they could to maximize his second and third and fourth years when he was going to be really cheap? And you can say that Texans are maximizing what they're trying to do when Strads on the rookie contract. So, yeah, I think you, again, that's where I get into like the coaching and the ability to kind of have their right mentality and mindset,

maybe overcoming any weaknesses that you think the front office is doing in terms of acquisition or the way the contract. are meted. I think that has to be part of how things are going because as the GM, you have to be able to say, like, is the coaching staff going to get the best out of this situation? And can I overpay or underpay here and make it work because of the coaching, because of the scheme, because of the mentality. And yeah, the Texans are just fun. I mean, the NFL is treating them as fun with the schedule release. They got some primetime games. And, you know, this is another challenger for Patrick Mahomes, you know, the young guy in the AFC. The disdain and dismissal. In your voice.

Well, I mean, it's been a few different guys who have been the new guy that's going to be his challenger. And yeah, I think it's actually going to be Herbert now, now that he's got one of the best coaches in the NFL. This gets a little bit off topic, but obviously one of your favorite guys. I just, there's a lot of good players. And yeah, I think the charges are going to be pretty good. And I think they're going to be better, quicker, and then people think because of how good Harbaugh is. The Chargers will be a part of the last group of teams that we're doing as part of this series. So we got three down, one to go.

Mitch sincerely appreciate the time, sir. Always great to chat with you. We'll do it again soon. Yeah, same. Thanks for having me. Join here now by Titans head coach, Brian Callahan. Sincerely appreciate you taking the time. And thank you for hosting me in this wonderful studio for the last couple days.

Good to have you. It's been a fun stretch. We're post-draft now. Guys getting on the field. How does it feel just to kind of see things starting to come together here over the last couple days? It's been really fun to have, to be around the team, to have a team on the field, get to the coaching part, which is the part that I enjoy, that when you start these jobs, it's just so much work in an office on a desk and you're in draft meetings and to be able to finally be on the grass with the players and getting to know them and their strengths and their personalities and then getting to teach and coach is the part that I love about coaching. And get to do that part. And finally, is exciting. It's been a lot of fun.

I think a lot of people would be surprised what goes into being a head coach, especially in the early stages. It's a lot of logistical work. It's a lot of organizational stuff. What have you spent more time and focus on than people from the outside might expect over the first couple months here? Yeah, that's probably the best way to put it is the organization of things. From what's on the walls, what color the paint is, what just it's everything. And everything needs my input or approval to whatever the process is. a lot of things that don't have really much to do with football at all. It has more to do with the building and the culture and the people and where people are supposed to be and when they're supposed to be there. And what does the equipment need and when do they need it?

And what is the PR responsibilities? And what do I need to do for them? And it's a million different things that have nothing to do with football and everything to do with the outside building of everything around it. So the football part can be good too. but there's a lot of responsibilities that you just don't really know until you're sitting in the chair all the things that cross your desk in a given day, which is one really fun. It's always exciting. It's a lot, though. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. It would be surprising to people.

You were telling me yesterday that Zach Taylor gave you an insight into what his day-to-day was like a lot when you guys were in Cincinnati. What sort of openness did he kind of provide to you there that gave you some insight into what the day-to-day would be of that job specifically? Yeah. It's been that experience. was invaluable because Zach and I were peers. We were friends on top of being coworkers and he trusted me and allowed me a lot of access into what he went through on a daily basis and things that he talked about. He would always mention if something came up and make sure you write this one down. Kind of getting you ready for what this moment would be like. Yeah, what it would look like and sharing those experiences. And without that, you know,

know, I would have been significantly less prepared for. It's jarring. I mean, the paint-color thing would be jarring if you weren't expecting that as part of the job. And that is what I've been able to glean from Zach and his experiences and him being open with me about the process and what goes into being the head coach besides what everyone assumes is just the football part, prepared me beyond what anything else could have, but any book or by having seen it in a day-to-day basis and being with Zach for as long as we were together. really, really prepared me. I felt as ready as you could possibly feel, and it's, it's bared out that way. I feel nothing about this early part of this job has felt overwhelming too much, too busy. It's been very busy, and there's been a ton of work, but it's never felt like

more than, I've not been surprised by any of it, I guess, is probably the best way to put it. I think a lot of people from the outside took the aggressiveness you guys had this offseason, the way you spent in free agency, the Logerius Nitrade is another example. It's kind of a sign of confidence in Willevis and what he can be in year two. When you went back and you watched his rookie year, what did you kind of gobb onto when you were trying to find those moments of optimism from what you saw from him? All those that is true. I mean, we feel like we have added really high-end pieces at positions that we needed it. And we have a team that I think is going to be competitive. And a lot of that has to do with what I saw from Will, what the organization saw from Will

in his time as a starter. And the things that you see in Will are the things that you want to see in your quarterback. He's tough. He plays with a ton of passion. It's important to him. He wants to be good. And then you add in the physical part of it, which is he's athletic. He's strong.

He can throw it as good as anybody. And you saw the flashes of his ability. All the same things that when he was coming out that got highlighted in the draft as a potential. top pick and for whatever reason thank god they did he's these slides and he's here in tennessee with me and um i just i love everything he's about and i think he's got real talent and he has a real ability to be um a high level quarterback in the NFL and and those things are the things that i'm excited about what aspects of his game specifically just the way that he plays the position have you kind of drilled down on i was like we can work with us yeah he's he's got one he's got a he's got a big

arm and some of his down-the-field throws last year were really impressive um He can make every throw you want him to make. What you saw, I think that was encouraging, because I think all quarterbacks go through a period of time where they have to earn their teammates' respect. Like, hey, I can do this. I'm tough enough. I can play the position the way he needs to be played.

And he did some kind of wild horse rider stuff out there a little bit to a couple big shots, but ultimately I think that's what endeared him to his teammates and what rallied the team around him. and that comeback game against Miami, the grittiness that he played against Pittsburgh, those things in his first year is really what stood out. And you can just, you see that man,

with some more pieces around him, really trying to help put him in position and be successful offensively. We can get his completion percentage jumped up, be a little more efficient in the passing game, still hit those big shots that he hit. I think he's got a chance to be a really good player. by the time you guys got to the end in Cincinnati,

the offense had kind of become an expression of what Joe liked to do. And that was a process, because it was pretty far removed from what Zach was doing in LA. I mean, there were a lot of elements to it that would have been unrecognizable to somebody who understood Zach's background.

You guys got to that place because you understood what the players did well and it was an evolution. As you try to figure out what the Titans offense is, where does that process start? Yeah, that's a really, that's a good question

because ultimately all the good offenses in football are tailored to what their people do well. And that's what the exciting part for me is right now that we're on the field is now I'm getting to learn what these guys, what routes do they run well? What ones are they not quite as good at? What routes does Will have a real comfort in? And what routes do we maybe not throw as much of? And those, that's the process that we go through between now and really all through the season. It's just sort of an ongoing evolution of finding things that guys do well, that he does well, that we can mix a match and make a system out of.

And what we did in Cincinnati, you know, we had elite players on the perimeter, elite, you know, between T and Jamar and Tyler. And then you have a quarterback, and Joe, that was a fantastic processor, maybe the most accurate quarterback in football, and the ability to play incredibly quick. And so we built a lot of the things that we did around that.

And then obviously you start to get, what are defenses doing? And how are they playing us? And so you had to adapt and evolve in that regard as well because then we started seeing all this shell and too high. And then we had to attack the field differently versus like in 2021 when Jamar first came in and we were throwing a ball all over the place down the field. And everyone, nobody's going to let you do that all day. So you have to evolve and adapt as it goes to fit the schemes that you're facing too. And a lot of that was based on the fact that we had a really smart processing quarterback, really accurate and really high-end receivers on the perimeter.

I can go win. And we're not Cincinnati here. We're Tennessee, and we have the different skillsets of different players that it's my job to find out where I can put them and how I can use them and what the quarterback does best so that we can ultimately move the ball and score points. It was very cool to watch that you guys try to solve problems in real time because, I mean, there was an element of, oh, well, we're the shotgun-based team and we were an inside zone running team.

That doesn't really work. And then in 2023, I'll remember the moment. You guys are playing New Orleans and you're in this gun, 90s. 95% of the time, and then the gap scheme run game kind of rises, and that becomes who you are. And then you go into this year and you see, well, now Joe can't move. So all the play action, movement stuff we wanted to do, we can't do that anymore. So you have to sort through that. And then Joe gets hurt, and you start to lean into things with Jake that you couldn't do with Joe.

So you've gotten a lot of opportunities to try to problem-solve in real time. And in actuality, like, that's what coaching is. I was just going to say, that's our job. Yeah. And I think that we were really fortunate. We had a great staff in Cincinnati, full of guys that are, their first reaction is not why can't we do this. It's what can we get out of it?

What can we do that's going to help us? And that mindset, I think, really helped us be flexible and adaptable and not be married to one thing, that, oh, we have to do this because this is what we said we were going to do. I don't think that's how football works. I think the best teams are the ones that can continually evolve and adapt. your system might change from what you, in your personal pride, you're like, this is what I believe in. Well, that may be not what you have.

Yeah. And so our staff was really, really good at pivoting and adjusting and solving problems as opposed to trying to make something, you know, around, a square peg fitting around hole, if you will. And so that's our job right now is to start that process. And then as we get to know what our team is, we start playing football games, we might have to pivot again. A lot of times in the office season, you think you're going to be one thing, and you get to the season, and he's like, well, that's not what we all.

are and you have to pivot. And I think that the best coaching staffs in the lead do that. And I'm really confident that we got the right people here to think the same way that we did in Cincinnati. It's funny because Zach's background, you know, he worked with Sean, and I think that's how people would describe him. He's one of the McVeigh tree guys. But your background is you're a Peyton Manning guy. I mean, that's the bones of kind of what you believe and where you come from is that. Your quarterback coach, Bo is Adam Gase. He worked with you in Denver. Your dad has a really diverse run game. So you guys are pulling from so many different things. And I'm sure the process of instilling all of that into one cohesive vision, that's a challenge, but I'm also sure it's energizing at the same time.

It's a blast because it's, you know, there's, you get exposed to, you know, we were all, and most of us on offense were all there together for five years. And I thought we did a hell of a job. I think we had a really good coaching staff and a good system. And you get somewhere new and all of a sudden you have this influx of thoughts of other things. You're like, I really, I like that. Let's do that. And, you know, obviously with my dad and his run game, it's like, we got all the runs.

There's every scheme you can imagine. But they've proven that over his time, too, that he's found ways to get the most out of whatever player. he's had. And it's a whole different, not totally different, but there's a different style of running game that he brings. And so just finding those, bringing those things into our system in Tennessee is going to think what's going to make us unique, what will make it the Titan system, whereas, you know, it's, again, I spent all my time in Cincinnati recently. And so that's where I get, that's what we are. And there's a lot of elements of it that'll be here. But there's also a lot of other things from other really smart people that are on our staff that have a great feel for what

works in football too. And so that's fun. The Peyton Manning thing, I think, is accurate. I've, you know, I spent my first five years in the NFL under that, mostly under that style of offense and in the dropback game and a quarterback-centric, quarterback-driven system where some of the systems in league are schematically driven. I think it's probably gearing away from that, if anything. I think most teams have kind of put their quarterbacks in a more rigid structure, where in Cincinnati, you guys drifted into letting Joe kind of, to dictate how things worked. And that's almost become the exception more than the rule. Yeah, you have to earn the right to do that too. Absolutely.

It's hard to just hand the keys over. I mean, you earn the, over time, earn the ability to go run the show as a starting quarterback. And you play long enough, almost all of them get to that point. Yeah. You know, guys, you get to six, seven, eight, nine years in your career, you've earned the right to do things the way that you like them because you, that's usually how it works. He did, I mean, for him, it was a year two, though. I mean, it's happened very quickly, but he's a different sort of animal. Yeah, and that's just those are the things that we learned about him pretty quickly, that he could handle all of that.

And that's not for everybody. In a perfect world, they could all handle all that, and you'd be excited about giving them the keys to the offense, but it takes work to get there. And I think that some guys take to it quicker than others, but it's a really fun way to play football. It's an enjoyable way to have that feedback with the quarterback, and I think that's what we're trying to build here,

is give Will these opportunities to, and we'll see what he grows into, and we'll see where he fits. But we're trying to make an environment where as much as he can handle, we're going to give to him. And I think quarterbacks enjoy that process. And I think a lot of guys grow from that. And they learn, they make mistakes, and they get better every time they go out there.

And that part is really cool. But, yeah, I think our Cincinnati time was unique because we did take a lot of things that I did from my past and Indian and integrate them in our offense. And we did a great job of playing to the players that we had. had and Joe was sort of in a similar mold that Peyton is in in terms of his processing and his quickness and his accuracy that it's like a lot of these things that we did in Denver fit him and you know Mike McCoy obviously took his system to San Diego and then they had quite a bit of

success with Philip and you know Shane Steichen was involved with Mike and there's there's a lot of teams that that I should say a lot there's a handful of teams that have been exposed to that stuff and obviously Jim Bob Cooters in Indianapolis and I was in Jim Bob in Detroit and so there's some similarities in some of the guys that I've been around, but I don't think there's a lot of us out there that were exposed to that particular system. And there's a lot of things about it that I believe in. It was a constructive relationship that you had with Joe and you guys got to an incredible place. But Joe's opinions about how the offense should go and about how the offense should work. What was one maybe sticking point or one, but healthy debate, let's say,

that you remember when you guys were trying to figure out who you wanted to be on that side? Yeah. I, well, there's two stories that I remember that are kind of fun. One was, you know, we finally we kind of transitioned that year into that gun run game and sort of just really leaned into it. I remember after the game, I remember Joe coming and saying like, we know, this is who we are. This is who we are.

This is what I want to be. This is what our offense wants to be. This is what all these guys were like, we came out of the game and it was like, this is what, this is it. I can't remember a light and bold moment like that that was so apparent for an NFL team searching for its identity. It was obvious team from the outset.

Yeah. And that was a cool moment, but that was Joe. Joe was the one. Now, we felt it too. But Joe came in the next day and was like, this is us. This is what we need to do, is we need more. Whatever that was, more of that. And so that, but that's cool. Did you have like two rushing touchdowns that came? Maybe that was the reason. That might have been playing. Yeah, yeah. You want to be a little bit, having a bigger hand and all that. Yeah. And the other moment that I remember, I'll never forget this one,

is we came in after, it was early in maybe 21, in 21 season. And we had, maybe, handed the ball off. I think we had a couple of, like, run, run, throw on third down. You know, like, trying to, like, take some heat off. And, you know, you're like, oh, we'll run the ball a little bit. And he came in after, like, immediately after the game in the locker, I'm like, we won the game. I can remember what game it was. Gave a hug.

He's a great job. And he goes, he's kind of, like, standing really close to me. And he goes, you know, it's really hard when we just run the ball twice and you asked me to throw it on third down, right? And I was like, well, thanks for sharing. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. Thanks for good sight. And so it's like, but he, as he's, he knew what made him comfortable.

And that's when you saw us, you know, we sort of leaning into a lot more of the early down passing. And those are things that he felt comfortable with. And we weren't a great rushing team at the time. And he just was like, I just, I don't like the way this is, I don't like the way that you guys are calling the game. And it's like, well, okay, we could take that into account. Sure. I appreciate the feedback. The fact that you feel, I mean, maybe he would do this with anybody.

But the fact that you guys fostered an environment there where there was that level of healthy communication, that seems to be the way to get the most out of your quarterback at the end of the day. I think that's the way to get the most out of your players. And you want an environment where the players have, they're not afraid to voice an opinion. And sometimes, and a lot of the times I've found that they're usually right. They're the ones that are playing. And so to tend to be dismissive of what they say, what they see. and their opinions on football, you know, I think that's,

I think that you're missing an opportunity. And I've always felt like, that was one of the, that was one of our strengths, I think, in Cincinnati is that we had an environment where guys were, hey, well, did you guys ever think about this, or what about this route?

Or can I run it like this? And that feedback to me has always been, like, well, yeah, let's try it. Like, let's try it. If you think it's going to be good, let's try it. If you have an observation during a game on the sideline, hey, call that again, and I'll get open.

They're going to play. I'll be open. And you say, all right, I'm going to call it again. And the same thing with Joe, you know, before the game, we go through the whole call sheet. And we rank all the situational calls, third downs, red zones, favorite plays early on. When we get in the start of the game, what do you like? And I've always found that usually if a quarterback likes a play, they find a way to make it work. And usually when they say, don't call that play, that play's probably not going to work.

And so you want an environment. where guys are comfortable and confident in telling you their likes and dislikes and it's not personal. They're not telling you like, I hate your scheme. They're just saying, I don't like that play. How do you foster that, though? Because with you guys, you had so much time together in Cincinnati that comfort just inevitably is going to build over time. How do you instill that from day one? You have to start that way. You have to start with, I ask Will a lot of questions. And that's, to me, that's how I've, at least from my opinion, that's how I've started to ask opinions. and then when they give you an opinion, listen to it.

You know what I mean? You can't just dismiss the opinion once you've asked for input. And so it's that give and take of asking questions and listening to responses. And then when they give you a response about something in particular, and you do it, you say, I don't like the way this particular ball handling feels. Can we try it this way? Yeah, let's try it that way. and that's, you know, that's one, one time.

And it happens again and again. And over time of that happening five, six, seven, eight times. And you go, oh, there is a report. They are listening to what I'm saying. Things don't fester. I mean, things are just nipped in the bud very quickly, which I think is the healthiest way to approach that kind of stuff. Yeah.

And if you don't, it's, I mean, to me, it's almost like that's any relationship. Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? But I think that there are been moments, if you look at the dynamics between coaches and players and how things have changed. Just the makeup and the archetype of NFL

the head coaches period. Younger, I think a little bit more emotionally intelligent. I think that that hasn't always been a given with the way that head coaches specifically kind of dictate the way they want the building to feel. But it does feel like we're trending in that direction a little bit. I think so. I think that's the day. I think that's people.

I think there's a time and a place maybe over history where I coach, you play. You listen. And you do what I tell you. And then there's probably an element of like, authoritative, militaristic in the sense of like you're taking orders. You're a soldier. You take orders. And I think that that's just changed. I think players today, they want to know why. They want to know, they want to have input. They want to feel like their opinions are valued. And I think that's what a healthy working relationship looks like in any field. But in particular, in our game where, you know, these guys make a lot of money too. And they feel like they should be able to voice an opinion and have it listened to.

I don't disagree with that. I think that that is how it should work. And the days of being able to just say, hey, this is how we're doing it, be quiet, do what I say. I just don't think players respond to that anymore for whatever reason. It's just a different generation of players. But if you're not listening to that, you're probably doing yourself a disservice. So I think trying to be flexible and malleable in how you're teaching it, there's benefit to that. I agree.

So when you talk about building the call sheet with Joe, you didn't call plays. This is going to be a new experience for you. So what to you is the biggest kind of bridge that you have to gap, or the biggest gap that bridge you have to gap here, biggest bridge you have to cross between building that call sheet and being the one who's actually calling it on game day? What's the biggest difference in those two rules? You know, yeah, there is a difference.

I'm not going to be dismissive of the difference. There is a difference when you're trying to manage the game as the head coach and call it. I think obviously seeing Zach do it. the process that we went through, which is why I spent a lot of time hiring people on offense that I have a lot of trust in because I think that's an important part. Nick Holtz, obviously, is a huge role in helping me get the call sheet set along with Bow's input with the quarterback. That's sort of how we worked in Cincinnati, too, with Zach and me and Dan Pitcher.

That circle tends to do a lot of the passing game with it. We had a veteran line coach from Frank Pollock. Obviously, we have my dad here, and I don't think there's many better than him. And so he helps set the run game. He has a lot of the input and how we're going to set it up and call it. And then obviously between me, Bo and Nick, formulating that process, how we're going to do, it doesn't have to be the same as we did in Cincinnati, but how we end up doing it here is going to be a huge help. I'll lean on those guys quite a bit, just like Zach did with me and Dan and Cincinnati,

with everyone that has their particular areas of expertise. And I trust those guys, and I'm going to have to. And there might be a time where I say, Nick, what do you like here? And just like Zach would do with me, and I'd give him a play, and he'd call it, and we keep moving. And so there's a collaborative approach to the play-calling process. And by the time you get to the game, if you're doing it right, you've sort of set the table. You've pre-sequenced stuff. Most of the things are, and I think then we're play callers in the league, the great ones, the Shanahan's and the McVeys,

and the guys that really separate themselves as play callers, they're great at what happens in game and how to adjust. I think that's where I'm green. I'm a rookie in that regard when it comes to that part. I've done it as a coordinator. Is there anything you can do in advance that kind of sets you up for success there? Is it just something that's trying to work through and anticipate and have a plan? You know, what's the plan? Where do you pivot?

You know, what do you think is going to potentially happen? I thought that was the one thing about like Gary Kubiak with the year I spent with him in Denver was the most, he was probably the most natural play. I just had a real great feel for when to pivot because he's been doing it for so long. And it's so many different ways. It's seeing so many things. And there is no substitute for the experience.

And I'm just going to have to accumulate some of that over time too. But you do your best to emulate the people you've been around. I think a lot about what Zach and I did together. and I think a lot about the good play callers I've been around and guys that I've studied, but there's going to be a... What does that study look like? Have you actually gone in and dug in to like tendencies and things like that? How granular have you gotten with the research that you've done?

You can get really granular nowadays because there's so much available at your fingertips. But, you know, I do, I've done, I usually study a handful of those teams every year that are similar to us. I spent a lot of time looking at what Matt does in Green Bay and what Sean does in L.A. and then Kyle and San Francisco, those guys are all people that have, even though they're peers are guys that I admire and respect

and think they do a really good job of setting up their offenses. And I've broken things down by a situation. I've done a lot of work on down-and-distance stuff. You know, when in the game are they calling some of these things? What periods of, is it early, is it late? When do they pivot from some of the early stuff? Because the adages all the time, like you get all the defensive guys, go,

well, we get all the crazy stuff in the first 15 plays. And then usually everyone settles down and they just kind of run their offense every that. And it's like, well, how do you keep from getting to that point where you do all your stuff that you practice all week? And then you just sort of settle back in the normal. And the guys that are kind of continuing pushing the envelope, but the guys, they keep calling those things over the course of the game. And so I've tried to study that part, too. It's like, how do you keep your edge during the game, you know, formations and motions and how you're deploying your people and how aggressive you are. the shots versus the run game.

I mean, there's a lot of things you can look at that that can be really informative. But I do try to keep like the down and distance thing and where they're calling certain plays and what points of the game is things I like to look at and see if it's things of what I do the same way. Or a few days removed from the draft here. You guys are Jay C. Leitham 7th overall.

When you guys were looking at the offensive tackle group, did you see a gap after him from the other guys who were available? I mean, where did you kind of have them spotted in with Holtz in there as well? Yeah, we felt like, Those that Joe Alt and J.C. Latham were the two top tackles, guys that we felt really comfortable that were worthy of the pick at seven, you know, that they were bona fide top ten talents. Guys that you think they're going to be plug-in starters and play for the next 10 years. That's kind of the goal when you're picking in the top 10.

And we felt really good about both of those guys. It was a talented class. There was some good players, Tulisi Fugga and Olaf Ashanoo and Troy Fountain, all those. guys that those are all going to be really good players. But we felt like for tackles with those two were the top two tackles in the draft. And either one of those guys would be great fits for us if they were there at seven. What made you feel comfortable about projecting JC over to the left side after where he played most of his time at Alabama? Just because you can see the athleticism and the traits, you know. He also played left in high school. He's a fantastic

athlete, so sometimes that's an easy translation. Guys have done it before. My dad did it with Jedrick Wilson. Yeah. So same style. So it's not something that you're fully projecting that you've never seen before. It's happened. I mean, Tyron Smith went from the right to the left as well. So it's a transition that we think can be made.

And for JC, he's got the requisite skill set to probably make that move and settle in pretty well over there. Also being that he did play it in high school. And he just kind of got stuck at Wright Taggart, Alabama. Yeah, circumstances always creep up. And then they get a five-star kid that was playing their last year. So the best way for them to play was to have him play the position he was comfortable. He's fully capable of playing left tackle.

And you watch a lot of the workout stuff that was done. And when you look at him, it's like you can make this transition. And not to say that it's not like, oh, this is easy because it's not easy. But he can project it. You can project his athleticism and skills would tell you that he can make that switch. At seven, the draft could have gone on a bunch of different ways. ways. There could have been multiple high-level receiver options there, along with the tackles.

You've been a part of this before. I remember that Jamar Chase Penae Soule Wars very well. You guys end up taking Jamar there. When you would have weighed kind of those hypotheticals of a receiving option, which you guys could still use an injection of youth at receiver and the left tackle, how did that

conversation go when you guys were playing out just the hypothetical time lots? You know, really the same way that it did a couple years ago in Cincinnati is that you're looking at two players, a receiver and a tackle, and you hope that at that plane, they're even. And either one of those players is going to be potential all-pro style player, which obviously Penae and Jamar both ended up.

Nobody was going to be wrong there. No, you guys both did okay. Yeah, no one's going to be wrong. And so that was what we maybe made that one unique, is that you knew that both of those players were going to be very high-level players. And so they're not always going to look like that. It's not always going to look so even. Where you're actually making the positional decision, not a quality of prospect decision.

Correct. But there was some good players. You know, you talk about Joe Alton, J.C., and then you look at Marvin Harrison, Jr., and you look at neighbors, and you look at Adunza. Like, those guys are all going to be really good players at their prospective positions. And so you have to have the conversation of if this tackle is here and this receiver is here, what do we do? and you talk through the player, there is a need factor that does go into that.

And one of the things that you do always factor in is can you find either one of those positions in the next round? And sometimes you can and sometimes you can't. But we felt like, for the most part, given their talent at that spot, the receivers and the tackles, that the tackles in this class were going to be

that high-end tackle. There's not a whole lot of mystery in where you find tackles. It's dropped them in the top of the top. That's just where you draft them. And so you can find good receivers to other places, not to say that it's a guarantee or that. But history would tell you that there are more options. I mean, you can count them on immediately off the top of your head.

Aja Brown was a second round pick. To get it was a second round pick. The tackles is just harder. History will tell you it's hard. And so for us, particularly for us, that we just felt like if one of the two, our two top-graded tackles were there at seven, and we felt like they should be with the quarterbacks that were going to get picked,

that the tackle was for us in this particular spot, and where we're at in year one, that that was the most, the highest position of need with the highest ability to fill it with one of those players. It helps have Calvin and DeAndre Hopkins there as well. That fills that factors in. These options. Had we not signed Calvin and we didn't have a hop under contract,

you know, that conversation might shift because it's also hard to find impact players. But I think Calvin's an impact receiver. Diof's been productive every year of his career. And so for us, the fit was a little more natural for a top end tackle at the top ten. You guys drafted Devonter's sweat in the second round. Yeah. Didn't take a receiver. Obviously, he had the DWI a couple weeks before the draft.

You know, the lot of conversations about what that might do. He went pretty high. What made you guys feel comfortable about taking him where you did? We did our homework. I think that's probably the best way to put it. And we spent time. We had him in on a 30 visit, which was good. It was right after his DUI.

So our interactions with him, you could tell he was really trying to make sure that he was open and trying to clear his name, if you will. This is what happened. This is how he would tell anybody that would listen about it. And, you know, we left the 30 visit and we just felt like we didn't get a real feel for him. We just felt like he was a little bit on the defensive. And we didn't, you know, who is he? It was very fresh. And so we made the decision.

And thankfully, we have. an owner that was gracious not to let us use her plane to go down there. But a week before the draft, me ran Anthony Robinson and Tracy Rocker, a Dine line coach, jumped on a plane on Friday morning the week before the draft started and flew down to Houston. And we spent the morning with Tabangri and his mom and his grandfather and his brother. They were all sort of there just hanging out. We wanted to make sure that we got a better feel for who he was. And it was really, really beneficial for us because we came away from it getting to see me and his mom and seeing him and his mom interact and seeing Tracy interact with Tavondre and we just felt so much more comfortable with

who he was and I think a lot of times in the draft process you know and this isn't a knock on like this is part of the process it matters so I'm not trying to diminish it but in the scouting process scouts winning these schools for three and four years and so they know these players over time and they start to think about oh this this kid he you know hey he was really really a little immature early and he did a lot of things, parties and all that stuff. And so, well, he was 18, 19 years old. Like, of course. Yeah, he's immature. We all are. I mean, yeah, exactly. I wouldn't want my scouting report when I was a freshman in college to be out there. And so you just, you have to determine what is, what is a real character issue? Is immaturity a character issue? Is an immature

kid that likes to go out and have a good time? Is that a character issue? Is that something that is a fatal flaw, that they're not going to become who they're capable of? And the answer is it depends on the person. And so we wanted to make sure we did all the homework that we could do on Tavondra and really get to know him to feel comfortable with where he was at and what he could look like for us and what we could surround him with to help him get to reach his potential. And, you know, obviously the talent was worth the investigation for us to go make sure that,

you know, he's a big, strong. physical interior defensive alignment and those guys make a lot of money these days. And so if we could find and feel comfortable with who he was, you know, it's still a risk anytime you do that. But we felt like we did our homework and felt comfortable with the player and ultimately ended up taking them. And there's also been some issues in just recent history with guys who have, let's go weight problems. You know, they get up over 350, up toward 400. The production from guys like that, it's been hit or miss. But you could also spin it where he's a rare combination of traits.

Like that size and the way that he can play. So it seems like that's the spin that you guys are trying to, or the take you guys are trying to put on is that this is just a rare type of athlete, and that's why we felt comfortable with it. Yes. And when you look at what he played at versus what he's been before, you didn't see any drop off in his play. And he still did all the same.

He could still move the same. There was nothing about his weight that affected his play either. And so, yeah, you don't want him to be 380, you know. But there's also a support system in place to help him keep that in check. That's why we have our performance to have. That's why we have a nutritionist. That's why we have Tracy. I think I think DeNard wakes up every morning at 5 a.m.

and text them, tells him to get up and go work out. And, you know, there's going to be a focus on making sure that we get him started on the right track and develop the right habits and routines to be a really, what we think could be a really high-hand interior defensive line. Special, just the guys that don't come along very often. Correct. You sought out DeNard for that defense. of coordinator job. You guys didn't know each other personally before this started. The only real

exposure you had to him is you played against that Ravens defense twice a year, and it was not fun. No. So why DeNard specifically, and why did you seek him out for that role? One of the things I felt like with a defensive coordinator role that I wanted is I just wanted it to explore somebody that I'm a system that I knew was hard for an offense. And that's where DeNard came in. And what makes DeNard special is he's got some experiences and some different. He's, you know, he's with Todd Bowles and Great Williams. And so he's got a different background. And you pair it with, you know, back-to-back years and his time in Philly and his time in Baltimore, he's the number one past defensive football. Yeah. And as we all know, you know, the passing game is king right now. And

if you can stop it, that is a huge benefit. And so I think DeNar's background with the secondary, with the passing game, how to coach the secondary, the energy that he coaches with, the person, he's a phenomenal person on top of it. And he's a guy that I want to be around. And when I interviewed him, I was like, yeah, this is the guy that I want to work with on a daily basis. What was it specifically? Was there any insight or element that you particularly attach yourself to? I think he's got a great vision for what he wants his defense to look like.

And he could articulate it. He could explain how he's going to get it there. He could explain what he needs to make the defense the way he wants it. And that, to me, gave me a ton of confidence that that's the, the right guy. And he's hungry because he hasn't done. He's been waiting for an opportunity to do it the way that he's always believed in. And he's got really cool experiences even as a relatively young coach in different schemes in the league. And to me, I wanted a scheme that was going to be multiple that was going to be able to be game plan specific when required, when you have to double

people, are you going to double them? Can you teach your coverage structure well enough and have enough ammunition to go play against Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes and Trevor Lawrence and C.J. Strzell, like, can we go make it hard on these guys? The answer is, yes, Dan Arden fits all of those things. And I think he's a fantastic football coach and really, really thrilled that we could get him. We weren't the only place I wanted to hire him. No, and the fact that he came here, I think, is I was asking him about it yesterday and the ability to kind of shape the way that the building felt on defense and it was appealing to him. Yeah. And, and, and, and, the fact that he came here, When you, obviously, setting culture with players and wanting that communication is one thing,

how have you tried to figure out how to coach your coaches now that you're in this role, in terms of instilling the type of communication, environment, energy that you want from them. Yeah, I think the first thing is I wanted to hire really good people. And so that's the starting point, you know, guys that can, that can, one, get along, that know how to relate to each other, that can communicate as a staff and communicate with me, communicate with other people in the building the front office. You need good communicators. and you need really, really good t-shirts.

And so that's what I was after. And for me, having to coach, I didn't want to have to coach those things, if that makes sense. Those aren't the things I wanted to have to coach. But you hire those types of people, and you sort of let them do their job. You know, I've hired a lot of,

I got some veteran coaches, guys, I've been doing a long time, and sometimes my job is to get out of the way and let them do their job. So not micromanage the people. And that's one thing I do believe. I don't need to micromanage these guys. I don't need to tell them how to do every little thing.

I hired them because they're good at what they do. And sometimes I just got to set them in a direction and let them loose, you know, and let them do that. So that part of it has been fantastic. If and when, I have to actually do some coaching and making sure things are the way that I want to make sure they are. That'll come up as it comes. But so far it's been really seamless for our coaching staff because I think of the type of people they all are and the type of teachers they are, there's not a whole lot of coaching that I have to do on them because a lot of them have been doing it for a long time.

Frank Bush has been in the NFL coach and line. He had started of known each other for years and years and years. So I think those connection points with him and then you've known Nick for a very long time. You worked with Bo a long time ago. So I think that communication is almost built in because there's already a comfort level. And they, even though the defensive guys didn't know me, that I'm pretty open about what the expectation is too. And so I think it was pretty easy and seen what's uncomfortable for them.

Oh, okay. Yep, I can do this in this environment. I'm good. And it's worked out really well so far. The coach you know the best on the staff is somebody you've known for literally your entire life. Yeah. What have you learned about your dad, maybe that you didn't know before now that you've kind of gotten to see this side of him up close? That's a good question.

I don't know that I've learned anything that I haven't seen before because I've been around hanging around for a long time. but he does such a he's just he's so detailed um and he's got such a really good way with the players that's the part that i haven't seen that i'm getting to see now just how how he day to day how he is with the players and one of the things i give my dad a ton of credit for is you know he's from a different era of coaching i was going to say that the fact that he can kind of carry that over is very impressive what we were talking about before yeah his ability to adapt uh how he's adapted his teaching style, how he went from adapting to technology. He uses all the technology.

He might be the biggest analytics nerd that we have. I mean, he understands. I mean, it's just, he's just evolved as a coach. And I think, where does that manifest? Is it tendencies? Is it how to, what type of analytics are we talking about? Just all, just what, first of all, the fact that he knows what it all means. Yeah.

You know, he understands the EPA. He understands the, the, the, the, some of the run paths. things that are good. He understands all of it. And it's, it's just one of those things because he's just such a, I mean, he's done so much football for so long that I think a lot of his experiences in Cleveland, which is a pretty heavy analytics based operation. I think he learned a lot of things there. And I think, to his credit, like, he's really open-minded about learning those things. And it's just super impressive to me. Because at the end of the day, at his core, he's still a old school nose of the grinds stuff.

line coach. That's what he is. Any other position, you're like, yeah, I guess I understand this. But the fact that he's an offensive line coach has been doing this for three, four decades. That's what's so impressive about it. I think, and that's what's been the most impressive to me, haven't worked with him now. You know, we talk about something, but just to see how he operates and how he relates to the players, how he knows how to push and when to when to love him up and one to back off and when to kind of really put his foot down. Like, it's just, he's just got such a, he's just got such unique skill set. And to see that in action every day has been the coolest thing for me, because it's been a long time since I've seen that on a daily basis. And it's been fun.

It's cool that you guys have gotten this opportunity to do it. It's a very rare chance. Yeah, it's incredible. It's, you know, we were joking one day, you know, it's like we're making up for a lost time. Yeah. You know, for all these years of all the hours of work and all the things that he had to miss as a coach, because you just, you just can't. And he's a worker. That's what he does. He works and he works hard and he works long. And he works. and he's just always been that way. And, you know, there's just over time, you just, you look back here like, man, that's a, it's a lot of sacrifice for the job.

And that's what it requires sometimes if you want to be great at it. And I think he's great at it. But we just, you know, the fact that the guy can just walk in his office and we can just start BSing about something not even totally related to football. We can have a cup of coffee in the morning. We have an apartment. Our apartments are right across the hall from each other right now. Like, sometimes we drive to work together.

There's just something that's very, as a son, that's really enjoyable about that process that I have to step back every now and again, and I do because it does mean something to me where you can be reflective on that, and like, this is really pretty cool. You know what I mean? This is a really unique moment for us. And he's towards the end of his career. I mean, he's coached a long time. He's coached way more years up to this point than he will after it.

But I just think that it's just a really unique spot in his career and his life and mine where it all sort of lined up perfectly. And it's been really a cool experience for me to have. And again, the bonus of it is he's the best line coach in football. Yeah, that's a nice little downstream effect to be able to enjoy. But the rest of it has also been pretty phenomenal. That's a cool opportunity. And it's a cool opportunity overall.

I'm excited to see what you guys do with it. Thank you very much for the time. Appreciate you having me. You got it. Thanks for coming down. Absolutely. Any time. All right.

That's all we got. Thank you so much to Brian. Thank you so much to Mitch for their time. really loved talking to both of those guys. Hope you guys enjoyed it as well. Just a quick bit of housekeeping moving forward. This is going to be running on Friday. I'm going to be out for the next two weeks,

but we are still going to have shows coming your way. The plan is football GM on Saturdays like it typically would be. We're going to have shows on Tuesday and Thursday each of the next two weeks. So still going to have three shows over the course of the week coming to you guys. The Tuesday and Thursday shows with me and a slate of fun guest. So please be on the lookout for those. And then I will be back full-time starting the week of June 3rd. But we still got plenty of stuff coming your guys' way in the meantime.

For now, I appreciate you guys listening. Enjoy your weekend. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.