The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Buying or Selling NFL Offseasons: The Middle Class

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

The ‘Buying or Selling’ series rolls on as Robert Mays explores how the “middle class” of the league fared this offseason, with Carmen Vitali of Fox Sports. Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome, the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. We are continuing our buy-or-sell off-season series today. We're doing four shows split into four groups of teams, hitting all 32 teams as part of this. Today, we are digging into the middle-class teams in the NFL. Maybe teams that didn't make the playoffs last year,

teams that are in states of kind of transition, trying to figure out what they want to be, not only this year, but going into next year. Joining us to get to this crop of teams with our little buy-sell series that we're doing, it is the NFC North Rider at foxports.com. It's Carmen, how you doing, Carmen? Great to have you. Hi, Robert. I'm so excited to be making my athletic football show debut.

It's a great time to have a lot of new people on, which we are doing pretty consistently here over the last couple weeks. It's been fun to have some new voices, some new perspectives. and I wanted to have you on for this show because there's a couple teams in this group that we're going to talk about that you are tasked with covering for Fox. We're going to talk about the Bears today. We're going to talk about the Vikings. Also a bunch of other teams. I wanted to put this out there right now as a blanket statement so people don't yell at me. The way that I have bucketed these is not my personal opinion of where these teams sit.

I don't think the Bears are necessarily a middle class team. I don't necessarily think the Colts are middle class team. these are organized by Super Bowl odds. So if you have an issue with where your team stacks up and how we're grouping this, take it up with the people who are making the Super Bowl odds in Vegas because it is not on me. I just wanted to get that out there before we started digging into this because I know I'm going to hear from people about this. Is anybody in Chicago taking offense to middle class? I mean, that's a city of Rod Schollards.

It's a blue collar city. I mean, you know, that's fair. Middle class. The last group, though, was playoff hopefuls. and I assume there are some teams in this group that would like to be in the playoff hopefuls group. The reason that you're not, it's a very simple exercise.

I did not make the decisions here. So I just wanted to get in front of that as much as possible. Okay, let's dig into this. Again, very simple exercise. We're going to talk about eight teams today, and we're buying or selling the way that these teams approach the offseason. So let's start with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Buy or sell the Pittsburgh Steelers offseason to this point.

I think I'm selling. I put selling with a question mark because I have no idea really what is going to end up happening because we don't know what the long-term plan is under center. You have two quarterbacks that have one-year deals. You have Russell Wilson who's playing on league minimum, but he very much has incentive to play well this year so he can prove that he is in for another deal while Denver keeps paying him. And then you have Dustin Fields who was a starter. is he actually a starter? That's the question, but what's he going to show you from the backup role that's going to make you want to put him in over Russ,

who's a nine-time pro-volar Super Bowl champion, yada, yada, yada. Oh, by the way, you traded away your wide receiver two in Deontay Johnson. So now I have George Pickens and then like, I don't know. How else is this going to go? I'm very confused as to why you were trading away pieces that maybe could have helped your income. coming quarterbacks. And then they did, they focused a lot on offense, though.

When it comes to the draft, you have the tackle in Troy Fontaineau. You have Zach Frazier at center. I don't know. It's fascinating because I just, I really, the quarterback situation to me is very interesting. But I just, I don't really understand their offseason up until this point. So I'm going to sell it. I get that. I'm going to ask you this question.

And I'm going to try to put you in the position of Omar Khan, whoever's in charge over there in Pittsburgh. What do you think the 2024 Pittsburgh Steelers are trying to be? That is what I was grappling with most when it came to this team, because I'm like, are you guys thinking two years ahead, essentially? You're in the last year of Mike Tomlin's contract, but I don't necessarily think that means very much because this is one of the most stable franchises.

They don't make rash decisions. Also, Tomlin has never had a losing season, as we know. So are you thinking like, all right, just get through this season. in figure out if you have someone in Russ that you want to resign, or can you develop Justin Fields and have him boomering back into a starting job? And you're kind of thinking of head towards 2025. Because if that's the case, I think it kind of makes a little bit more sense to what they're doing.

That's kind of what it feels like to me. What I said was you, what the moves that you, I'm buying it just because I think that they've improved in important areas. I think their quarterback play, even with these short-term options, is going to be better than it has been over the last couple years. And they're paying their quarterbacks.

After Caleb Williams signs his deal, the Steelers will rank 30th in cap spending at quarterback. And they have two guys who could potentially start. The Raiders have zero right now. That's true. They're starting caliber quarterbacks. And they're not 30th in quarterback spending. So I get the Steelers looking at the landscape of available quarterbacks,

picking, I think they're picking, what, 19th, 20th, and looking at the guys available in free agency and saying, we can't spend on guys at the top of the market, nor do we maybe want to. We don't want to spend a lot of money on a bridge quarterback, and we're not going to be able to draft somebody.

So let's just spend as little as we possibly can on our quarterback plan this year as we build up the rest of the roster. We have a new offensive coordinator, Arthur Smith. Our quarterbacks, even if we're cheaping out on them, are probably better than they were last year. This current construction can make us

a potential wildcar team in 2020. and then we'll figure it out moving forward. I don't know what's waiting around the corner in 2025 at quarterback or for the franchise, but as a pit stop, I can get behind some of the things they did in their intermediate. I guess that's where I sit with everything. Yeah, the only thing that concerns me, though, is obviously last year was a total carousel of quarterbacks and you don't have any sort of stability of that position. And you can't really evaluate, I feel like, a lot of your team,

when you have such a wildcard under center. And when you have, I go back to this phrase that I've been taught by coaches over and over again and beaten over the head with, really, you have two quarterbacks. You have none. And that's what I'm kind of concerned with, where are you really going to get a good picture of what Russ can be? Are you going to get a picture of even what Justin Fields can be if they're both looking over their shoulder constantly?

I was part of something like this when I was with the Buccaneers. I was with them for six years. and it's not on this caliber necessarily, but it was between James Winston and Ryan Fitzpatrick. And it was like they were trying to out duel each other at every chance that they got to be on the field and be the starter. So you had James Winston starting the season, he struggled. And then actually I think Fitz started because James was injured.

That's what, or he was suspended two years. That's right. Or two games. That's right. So you had James on suspension. Ryan Fitzpatrick plays beautifully the first couple of games. And then it becomes this like, all right, When do we put in James? Do we put in James?

And then Fitz starts to struggle. And then James comes in. And now he's just trying to go balls to the wall and try and impress the coaches to keep his starting job. And then he goes off. And it's just, the bucks were five and 11 that year. It didn't materialize into anything. And you really didn't know where anyone stood when it came to that. And it eventually led to Dirk Cutter getting fired as well.

But I just, I don't like having two quarterbacks that are, auditioning for a long period of time on the same roster. That's just, that's my, that's been my experience, I should say. I think that's totally fair. And they've made it pretty clear that they believe Russ was the day one starter.

They've told anyone that would listen that he is. Well, then why do you need Justin Fields and how are you going to understand if Justin Fields is worth a long-term investment, if you're not going to see enough of him to make a judgment on that? I think that's totally fair. My biggest question about this team is like,

what is the end game? What is the end game of all this. If you're going to take a half measure a quarterback with a seemingly promising roster everywhere else, where are you going with this? But again, I think that they've improved in enough areas where I can get behind it, even with some opacity and a lack of certainty about that situation specifically. What they've done along the offensive line, the fact that now that is maybe like the centerpiece of their identity offensively. I like that. I think that Roman Wilson is a really intriguing piece in the slot and is complimentary to what they have

with George Pickens. They still have a really good defense with a lot of really good pieces. So I think overall it's like, all right, like this is probably if things break right and you get league average quarterback play or slightly below league average quarterback play, maybe like a 10 win team that sneaks into

the wild card. So what they've been for the last? Yeah, but I think that's right. And I, to me, it's about what the swing at quarterback eventually is. Is it a long-term deal for Justin Fields? This is a long-term commitment to Russell Wilson. Is it something else next off season. That is always

going to be the question all year that's looming over this team. But everything else that they did, it's not overly exciting and there weren't any other splashy things, but it's like, all right, I get this. I will say there are two questions I still have. Is there another wide receiver move coming of some sort?

Is this a team that could make a move for a D.K. Matt Caff or somebody like that. I think he's very samey with George Pickens. I don't know how that would necessarily go. But is there one more wide receiver move coming? And the only real hole on the roster. I'm like, why didn't they do more there

other than receiver after losing Deontay Johnson is what do they doing at corner? Even after the Dante Jackson trade, just feels like they can use somebody at the nickel. I know they like Corey Trice, who's coming back from injury, but that's the only part of the roster outside of quarterback in that second receiver spot where I'm like,

can you have done a little bit more, just a little bit more to shore that up and they didn't really? Rather than their like sixth round pick in Ryan Watts's at a corner to see if maybe that materializes into something. Yeah, I, bringing in another wide receiver is kind of my biggest question with them as well, just because they do have $18 million left in Cap's face right now. And as I was doing this exercise and kind of going over all of these teams, I was like, well, and we can get into this later.

Is, am I crazy for thinking that maybe the Raiders could think, think about moving Devante Adams or someone like that? You mentioned D.K. Metcap as well, I mean, I don't know. When you have that amount of money and you have that big of a need, especially for a veteran guy, I just, I think that there's, there's something to be said for that in Pittsburgh. And I don't know, that could go a long way in helping evaluate the quarterback. Because again, if you're not thinking this year, you're at least trying to get a grasp on who is going to be your future. And in order to do that, I think having a veteran receiver to pair with George Pickens can really help you evaluate the quarterback position, whether or not it's Russ or Justin Fields.

The court and Steelers are running in place a little bit. I'm willing to concede that even if I can get behind a lot of the things that they did. Next one here, New Orleans Saints. Are you buying or selling the New Orleans Saints offense? Or excuse me, New Orleans Saints offseason. That was a Floridian slip. I feel like all these are going to end up having caveats to them. I'm buying, but I don't think they're going to be good this year.

Okay, explain yourself, man. So, okay. I don't know what else I would have wanted them to do. So I'm buying what they were able to do because especially with Clint Kubiak coming in. But what did they do? It's like the do something meme where you're poking them with a stick. Do something. I know.

No, I get it. Some of their draft makes sense to me because of the fact that you have Clint Kubiak coming in and he's like, I want to do it. Run first offense. It's like, okay, well, you're not really going to have a choice because you have, you still have Chris Olbe. And I love him as far as you got your receivers to go. But like, you forget about Jamal Williams. Like, they did nothing with Jamal Williams last year. And this is coming off in his like breakout year in Detroit the year before.

And so you still have Alvin Camarrett. You still have Jamarra. You're drafted Kenneville in the last year's draft. He gets hurt. So, like, you have a lot of fun things and fun pieces in the run game. And if you have an offensive coordinator that really wants to utilize these guys, it makes sense. And then I'm just left wondering what's going to become a Ryan Ramcheck on the offensive line. You took to Lacey Fulaga, which was great to me.

I mean, that's absolutely what you need to do to kind of insulate against Ryan Ramchick, potentially not playing this season, which came out of nowhere a couple months ago or maybe a month ago, whatever that was. But I think within this offense, you can get away with what you've done so far and making sure that you're fortifying the offensive line with the purposes of getting the run game going and making that. I'm not a huge believer in Derek Carr, though. So that's also where I fall, where I'm like, okay,

clearly doesn't seem like you're that big of a believer in Derek Carr either if you're going to run first on all of this. And he can be a serviceable quarterback if that's the case. I just don't know how they're better than they were last year. If you look at the roster right now compared to what it looked like at the end of last season, and maybe you're better at left tackle because now you have a left tackle, but even Fulaga was not a left tackle in college. So now you've got a position change for a guy

whose main selling point is what he can do for you in the run game and you're going to pop him over at left tackle. That's a question. Don't know who's playing left guard still. Right now, I mean, it's a bunch of guys who are not starting caliber players. So that's a concern.

And then you go over to defense. Okay, you go get Chase Young on a one-year deal. He has not been able to stay healthy pretty much his entire career. If there's a reason that you were able to get him on a relative discount. and then you look at every other layer of the defense, you draft Kulad McKinstree in the second round.

So now you have better corner depth. That's the selling point. Okay. I mean, maybe you can get something for Marsha on Latimore and a trade. I just don't understand where they're going. Yeah, he needs to stay healthy too because they,

you know, they let one of their other corners walk in free agency. And I'm like, okay. I do also they, I don't know if this is something, but I don't know. he's a great guy. So I'm a little biased probably. Lucas Patrick. They signed him. And I think that he's going to factor into that guard conversation there. And I think he could play guard. Again, this is all hinging on if they can stay healthy. But like, what else is new with the New Orleans Saints? Like, if this dude can stay healthy, okay, you like, you've got me. Like, I can do this. And I just, I think that they went so far in making sure that they had depth across a lot of positions, which is I think why I liked what they did in the draft. There was a lot of variety when it comes to,

who they picked. And I just don't know what else I really wanted them to do with the current roster construction. And again, how they always seem to be in complete cap hell when it comes to the Austin. This is where I ultimately land. This was the oldest roster in the NFL last year. If you look at Snapweighted age. They were, I think, 32nd on offense and 31st on defense, which is honestly impressive to be that old on both sides. They were the oldest team in the NFL last year. They are currently $84 million over the salary cap for 2025. They'll figure out a way to get away from that,

but it's not like they have a ton of financial flexibility to add pieces. So you take those two things into account. You're the oldest team in the league, and you're very, very expensive. They have the third best odds to win the NFC South. Which is? So for all of this, all of this stuff that's happening, all of the investments that you've made, and this aging roster that you're trying to squeeze every drop out of,

you have the third best odds to win the NFC South. It's just hard for me to get behind any of that. I know that's a multi-year thing, and it's not limited to what they did this off-season, but I still feel like the medicine they're having to consistently take year over year because of their other decisions, that influences what you can do in a given off-season, and I'm allowed to not be moved by it,

even if it's because of previous choices you've made that are currently holding you back. And I guess that's where I land with the Saints. Yeah, no, I'm with you. I guess, because I said, I'm like, I'm buying it because I don't know what else you would have done, but at the same time, like, you are always in Capel. You are always kind of trying to put a Band-Aid over all of these issues that you consistently have every single year.

I don't think the Saints front office has run very well, and this is going back again to my time in the division where, but they always end up surprising me also. and they do have the third best odds, like you said, but that division is so wide open. I have to imagine all of those odds are like very minuscule like increments. They're like plus 370 to win the division.

All right. I take that back. I don't know. That may not mean anything, but that's not a good starting point when you have the team makeup and roster construction and timeline that this team has. Yes. Demerio Davis is 35. Cam Jordan

is 36. You have a quarterback in his mid-30s. They have some young pieces. You know, the receivers are pretty young. But again, if you look at it, just snap weighted age, period, across the entire roster, this is the oldest team in the NFL last year. And it's not like there's been this injection of exciting youth this offseason. So, again, I feel pretty unmoved by where the Saints are. And I feel like that's been a consistent issue. All right, maybe I'll sell them now. You convince me. There you go. That's what I'm after here. To be fair, I said they weren't going to be good this year. I just, I thought I was still buying, you know, just because that's what the Saints always do. Anyway,

let's get to a couple teams that you know pretty well here. Chicago Bears, buy or sell the Chicago Bears off season. Okay. I'm buying, but not in an irresponsible way. Like, I want to get that out of the way because I am trying to be the voice of reason in Chicago, which is an absolute fool's errand, as you know, Robert, because the Bears fans... You're preaching to the choir. Their fans are like zero to 100 at a lot. all times. It is black, it is white, there is no gray area for absolutely anything. And I'm like, okay, where do we, as a collective bears, you know, either covering or fans, where do you get

off having the expectations that are now placed on Caleb Williams? The expectation of immediately being in the playoff conversation, immediately winning the division, all that, like, when have we seen that as a part of this organization? And I know it's different. I love what Ryan Poles has done. He's curated this roster. So, beautiful. but I don't understand like how Bears fans have gotten it into their heads like oh yeah now everything's fixed and now we're just going to shoot to the top of the league in one of if not the toughest divisions in football this year like I just can we just go step by step that's what I want I want all right how do you know break the rookie records which are on the floor by the way

I don't know if I need to say them again I feel like I've said them over and over again 2200 yards, 11 touchdowns. Yeah, the 2200 yards and 11 touchdowns, but if he threw for 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns, which would be a fantastic rookie season, but that would be the greatest single season in Chicago Bears history for a quarterback will be 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns.

Those are the numbers. Those are in play. Right, those are in play, but I don't even want to get to that. Just break the rookie records. Then maybe like flirt with play. No, get to a winning season. That's the next step. And then flirt with playoff contention.

can do all of those things this year. Listen, I will drive the Bears hype train in 2025. I promise you that. But right now, like, I get that everything looks really great on paper and it's honestly pretty scary. As someone who grew up in Chicago, I'm like, this on paper looks like it can't fail. That means it's going to fall spectacularly to pieces if history is to have told me anything. We are not far away on this. I think I see this similarly, but you still haven't, what about this off season. Are you okay with this off season, even if you think the hype train has got a little bit too out of control? Because I feel like I've, I've said a lot of the things that you're saying, where I like a lot of the things that have happened, but I think that we've gotten carried away. So let's go back

to step one. You still feel pretty good about the moves they made concentrated to the last few months. Yeah, because I feel like this was the last part of a three part plan on behalf of Brian Poles. And you can see that with the fact that they didn't, you know, there was not a lot of free agents that left. You had, obviously, Justin Fields was traded. You had Unique and Gakway, who actually is still unsigned and I'm not putting past, rejoining the bears at some point. But clearly this has been the plan all along is to bring up this roster at a slow and steady pace, build for sustained success.

And this offseason in particular, you didn't have a ton of draft capital to work with. Sure, you had four picks, which ended up being five. But I am including the Montez Sweat. I'm including Montes Sweat in that draft class because you used a second round pick to trade for him last season. I'm including Keenan Allen in that because, yeah, you traded away the fourth pick. So, like, to me, those all factor into your draft class. And if you're looking at that in totality, then you're like, wait a second, that's a really good class. On top of the fact that you not only have guys that will help Caleb Williams in DJ Moore and Cole Komet and, again,

Keenan Allen, who have experience, but you've also got him a guy that he can grow with as well for the future. So the way that this offseason, I feel like, was the biggest part was just plugging a couple more holes, obviously dropping in the new quarterback. And then also, though, looking towards the future. And so you can sustain whatever you've built. I really, really like that. And I really, it's not necessarily flashy. And I wasn't the hugest fan of taking a punter in the fourth round. But I can see the logic. I've just been personally burned by that way too many times to have drafted a specialist hire with a premium pick. I see why that makes sense because he's going to influence the game

right away. As Roberto Aguayo scars are lingering. Listen, Robert, I will never get over that. Not to mention, I also went to college at Arizona State with Thomas Weber, who was a Lou Groes Award winner. Wonderful guy. Did absolutely nothing in the NFL, but was drafted because that's what happens. And I just feel like the body of work in college just doesn't necessarily translate. But Tori Taylor is Australian and hey, vibes. I love that. That's what I'm after. That's my selling point for this is that it's just you're adding to locker room chemistry by dropping it Aussie into the mix. I think that will go well.

And so like I'm, I'm okay with it. But I just, I couldn't really wrap my head around doing that ahead of getting another edge rusher, which you ended up getting in the fifth round trading back in for Austin Booker. But I also feel like, there was there was maybe some more if you were willing to leverage future capital to go back into the fifth round and get someone. Like, why weren't you willing to do that to maybe move up a little bit and get a better, like a better edge rusher? I know that there weren't too many guys that really,

you know, were available at that fourth round that probably were good value. But like, if you were going to maneuver, why not use that to get a badass edge rusher and, and paramounts, you know, on the opposite side of Montez Sweat.

I also think that, biggest question with them was, all right, do we really believe in your younger guys on the interior of that defensive line? As I thought they were going to go out and get a guy like Christian Wilkins, get like one of those three texts, because that's something that's so pivotal in Matt Abrampleu's defense, where I would have liked more experience there rather than just relying on, like, I love Jervon Dexter as a player, but you're molding him into something that he didn't do in college. So like, that's been a process bringing him along. And I think he absolutely can be one of those more penetrative three techs up front. But I mean, between him,

Zach Pickens, Andrew Billings, like those sound great as rotational players. I just wanted that dude. If that position is so important to you, which Maddie Verluse says it is, why didn't you go out and get an experienced three tech? That's that's that that was my biggest question, I think, this offseason with the Chicago Bears. But overall, I see the vision and I like it. Lack of investment up front is my biggest question. not only on the interior but on the edge as well. I mean, the fact that you're going to roll into this season again with DeMarcus Walker is your number two edge rusher.

We've talked about that a lot on the show. I don't think there's any reason to belabor that point. But they're banking on massive strides from Dexter and Pickens. And that's okay. I think it's okay to not cut off pads to opportunity for your young players. And overall, it's actually something I like about the offseason that they've had. They weren't overly aggressive. They haven't hamstrung themselves either financially or

with draft capital heading into 2025. They traded away that 2025 fourth to go back into the draft and draft Austin Brooker. I totally understand that. But if you look at the slate of picks that they have, they've got a decent amount of picks. I think they have an extra sixth

next year in the Chase Claypool trade. Obviously, they have the extra second from the trade up with Panthers for number one last year. So they have a full slate of draft picks next year, essentially. They still have a ton of financial flexibility against the cap next year. I mean, there's a good chance that they'll have

$75 million in cap space because they didn't really extend themselves at any free agents. The free agent moves that they made were Kevin Bayard on a reasonable deal. They resigned J.01 Johnson, which I think is a win, and then going and trading for a guy like Ryan Bates, who's going to be cheaper next year. So I think maintaining that flexibility and not getting overly aggressive or impatient, understanding that let's step back, let's see what this year looks like, and then we'll figure it out moving forward. Because my thing is, you look at, all right, you got one splash problem.

The splash was Keenan Allen for $23 million against the cap this year. Could you have used that money on Daniel Hunter, who probably would have been against the cap about the same amount this year, and then similar next year, that deal he got from the Texans? Their bet was, if we have that one splash, I want to use it on offense because I want to give this guy every single opportunity to succeed. When they made that trade to go get Keenan Allen, they had no idea that they'd be able to get Romadu and Zay.

And in my opinion, it's probably better to be flush with receiving options for the number one overall pick after your franchise has spent the last five or six decades systematically ruining these guys by not giving them enough to work with. So that's why in totality, the entire plan here, I think I can pretty safely and enthusiastically get behind it. Because at the end of the day, if you want to nitpick about some of these smaller things, lack of edge help, all that, this has a chance to be a. transformative offseason on its own right now. And that possibility and that potential, that's enough for me to be buying this. Yeah. And I appreciate that they actually, they went out and got Coleman Shelton too,

who I admittedly didn't know a ton about, but then you see that he started all, you've been starting for the Los Angeles Rams the last two seasons, played all 16 games, I believe, last year. And that was one of my key things too, where I was like, all right, if you're going to bring in a rookie quarterback,

put an experienced, center up front with him so he can take some stuff off of his plate. He can make the checks. He can make the IDs. He can do all of that kind of stuff that lets Caleb Williams really develop and focus on the other things that are going to be a little bit more productive as far as, again, having this receiver core, I like it not only for the reasons that you just said, but also because again, Roma Dunez is going to be with this team for the next four years on a rookie contract. Keenan Allen, you don't know how long he's going to be there, but now because you've got Roma Dunezay, you've insulated against that loss. And so it's not going to be a big deal.

You don't have to go out and spend money next year on getting a badass receiver, especially because you should lock up DJ Moore, I think, for a little while as well. But I really appreciated that view of Ryan Poles being like, okay, this is going to help us now and in the future. And that's fine. Even if there were a couple of things where, I don't know, there were some other options at number nine that I would have looked at a little bit. But Roma Dunezay is. is I think one of the best. Like, I think that he was right behind Marvin Harrison, Jr. For me, in this wide receiver class.

And I, again, having too many weapons and too many miles to feed is a good problem to have at this point for the Chicago Bears. And with this team, I mean, I'm looking at, I think it was PFF this week. They were doing a ranking of the best position groups in the NFL, the best and the weakest. And whether you believe this or not, they had the Bears as the best receiving core in the league. And I was looking around. I was like, what the fuck is happening? Like, this is just such a weird place to be. I don't know what to do with my hands.

I know. I keep bringing up the Ricky Bobby meme of like, I don't know what to do with my hands because growing up, again, this is not something we ever saw. We didn't see fun, flashy offensive football. Like, I'm a defensive person. My favorite player is Lance Briggs because of the fact that I didn't have offense to watch when I was growing up. So having like all of this offensive firepower is just, it's so foreign. It's completely foreign. I don't know this reiteration of the Chicago Bears. I keep saying that too. I'm like, I don't know her. I don't know her. But like, I would like to get to know her because she. It seems like she's a whole lot of fun. The offensive line, I think, is a workable group, but I understand the investments that they made. They have interior debt with Ryan Bates. They drafted a swing tackle, developmental guy in the third round. I appreciate all of that. The biggest thing I have, outside of the personnel, what is going to happen with Matt Eber Fluse being the head coach? Was holding out to Matt Eber Fluse and pairing a defensive-minded head coach with the number one overall pick,

the best way to set Caleb Williams and the franchise up for success. It can work. I think Shane Waldron is a solid offensive coordinator, but there's still something in the back of my mind that until I see it actually fall into place is going to say, was this the best move? Was this the best move when no one in America would have questioned you moving on from him?

Not a single person would have been like, oh, man, they moved on from Matt Eberfuss. I can't believe that. Even with the defensive improvement, I think you had a cracked door to step through if you were Ryan Poles in the organization. I understand not doing it because of the progress that they showed, but there's a little voice in the back of my head that's just like,

you made this harder on yourself than you needed to. You made this harder on yourself than you needed to. And we may have to live with that. Especially because you are going to perpetuate a cycle if then this doesn't work out this year and then you fire Maddie Bribluse this year in Kayla Williams' first season. That is going to perpetuate exactly what has happened with the last few quarterbacks, in fact. but I'm hoping that that doesn't happen. And honestly, I don't think that there's an excuse for not having let Matt Eber Fluse go if you knew that this was the plan, given the fact, like, I knew that he had more years on his contract and the Barrett's have just historically not shown a willingness to pay coaches to go away.

So I saw it coming. As much as I was like, I don't think this makes sense. I also saw it coming with keeping Matt Eberflus because you could lean on the fact that he had so much defensive improvement. but what I do like, and what I think could be the saving grace, is that you went out and you made the change an offensive coordinator

for a guy that has a track record. That was the issue with Luke Getsy is that he's only ever been in one system. He also was a quarterback's coach to a guy who we know doesn't like to take a lot of coaching in Aaron Rogers. Who doesn't really have coaches

now that he's with the Jets? He's the quarterback coach. He's the offensive coordinator. He's the assistant GM. Like, listen, like, all veteran quarterbacks change plays at the line, but from what I like have glean from other people I've talked to from guys that have played with him.

He does an inordinate amount of time, an ordinary amount of the time, I should say. That being said, Shane Waldron has a really player-friendly system that has worked for multiple different kinds of quarterbacks. So what that tells me is that he is able to tailor his system to what his quarterbacks do well. And historically, we've seen that work out more often than not. It's just sometimes you get these coaches who have like, my system is my system and you have to fit into my system. Chigewaldron isn't that.

He comes from that like Shanahan tree, whatever. And there is a video of him working with Caleb Williams as far back as 2017 at the quarterback collective, which is a group of all of the major players as far as NFL, guys who have shaped the NFL offense as we know it right now between Shanahan, McVeigh, all those guys are part of this kind of group and they work with these up-and-comers. not to say that I think that this relationship has stayed between Shane Waldron and Caleb Williams since 2017, but there is some familiarity there. And again, this is something that Caleb Williams has been training for his entire life.

I mean, this is a guy that said when he was a kid that he wanted to be the first overall pick in the draft and now he is. So having guys that have, having a guy that come in with a track record and knows how to get the most out of quarterbacks and is willing to tweak his own system because he has the experience to do it, I like that because you're going to operate. pretty autonomously as the head coach of the offense because you have a defensive head coach.

And there's nothing Matt Eberflus is going to, he's not going to click over on the headset and be like, yo, Shane, I think you should run this. Like, he's not going to do that. And Matt Eberfluse knows that, especially because he's the first time head coach. So he's not going to step on Shane Walden's toes when it comes to the offense. I appreciate that. And I think that that dynamic can work. I know now I'm just, but I'm with you that it's still a little bit concerning.

All right. Let's stick in the NFC North here. We go with the Minnesota Vikings. Are you buying or selling the Minnesota Vikings offseason? Buying it and probably buying more than most because we're for all the conversation we've had about J.J. McCarthy. And I think there is a lot of conversation to be had, obviously, about him. We're not talking about the fact that he also got Dallas Turner. This is, I think, in some ways, this offensive, heavy, quarterback heavy first round saved the Vikings from themselves.

because for all we've heard, and if you read between the lines of Kevin O'Connell's press conference after the draft, Quasi Dof Omenza's press conference, they were prepared to part with at least three first round picks to go up and get Drake May. And had you done that, you would have hamstrung yourself for years, and now you are hinging everything on Drake May working out. This way, you only had to move up one spot just to make yourself feel a little bit better. You get a guy in J.J. McCarthy who I think Kevin O'Connell and Josh McCown and that whole offensive staff can really work with and develop with. Because you have now Sam Darnold, you have the luxury of patience in Minnesota. And I don't think anybody is thinking Minnesota is contending for the division crown this year.

So you have all of the pieces in place to stay patient there. And now you also still got to use that number 23 pick. And you got Dallas Turner, who is now going to be opposite of Jonathan Grenard, who had 12.5 sacks last year for the Texans. And in a Brian Flores defense, the blitzes as much as he does, it hasn't necessarily translated into pressures over the last couple of years. But Brian Flores is not used to having a double-digit sack guy. Daniel Hunter last year was his first guy to reach double-digit sacks with him as a coordinator or a head coach. He got creative because he had to. Now you have two potential double-digit sack guys on either side of the defensive line on top of having

a pretty good interior rotation at the defensive tackle spot. So I'm really looking forward to what this defense can be because I think this defense can win you some games while you're being patient with Sam Darnold under center on offense and plus all of those offensive weapons. So I really, really liked what Minnesota did. And I think it worked out better than it could have even, they could have even hoped for because I think they were trying to do something that would have inevitably set them back a little bit more had they had all of those quarterbacks not gone. And I think some people believe that they would trade up to four even to get J.J. McCarthy. And that probably would have taken the pick you out at 11 and the pick that you added 23.

So the fact that you didn't have to do that and you still came away with the quarterback, that does feel like a win. I don't know how I feel about the whole thing. I said sell, but I think that's harsh. This is where I land on it. I understand everything they did if this is part of a multi-year plan. And I think it is, right? What they wanted to do is they wanted to get on the rookie quarterback financial timeline.

And I understand that. If you look at where they are now paying J.J. McCarthy $4 million a year compared to where they would have been paying Kirk Cousins 45, they have a lot more financial flexibility moving into the future. They don't have that financial flexibility yet. And when I was looking at what they did in a free agency and even some of the other moves that they made. I just forgot how much dead money this team is carrying this year. They have $57 million in dead money right now. That's Kirk. That's DeNeal Hunter. That's a couple of the other

smaller moves that they made. If you look at some of the leveraging they had to do on the books over the last couple seasons to split the difference between this competitive rebuild that they were trying to do and then some of the sins from the previous regime, there was a lot of money that was going to come due this year. So they still were kind of up against it in terms of what they could do in free agency and what they could do against the cap. That pretty much goes away next season.

They've got some void year guys, but if you total those up, we're looking at $19 million for 2025. Why that matters is because them going into next season with, I want to say, like, $50, $60 million in cap space, there's a lot of holes left on this roster. They need help on the interior of the offensive line. They need help on the interior of the defensive line.

They need help at corner. If you're looking at this as a multi-year thing, those are positions you can theoretically find in free agency. You can find interior starters on the offensive line. You can find depth on the interior of the defensive line. The problem is they have to find those guys in free agency because this team has no picks anymore. They got Dallas Turner, but they gave away so much to get him.

So I can get behind some of the moves. I like the Grenard signing. I totally understand going out and getting an Andrew Van Ginkle in this system before you got Dallas Turner. Those two guys together I really like. Even going out and signing a guy like Blake Cashman, I'm fine paying for linebackers. I think paying for linebackers, not a lot, but just finding them in free agency is a safe way to build your team. So overall, I understand it.

I just can't get the Dallas Turner price, the lack of flexibility that it gives you in the draft, and the remaining holes on this roster, those are just like big blinking lights for. me. So I think I land on sell, but I understand everything they did as part of a multi-year plan. That's how I'm caveat this. Yeah, that was my like, I'm buying it heavily because I

do believe this is a multi-year plan because I don't think that, again, the Vikings are under any illusion that they are competing for the division or even competing for the postseason at this point, especially because you knew taking a developmental prospect as your quarterback, you're going to need to give

him time. And that's the reason you go out and you spent $10 million on Sam Darnold because you know that he's actually probably going to start the season for you and play a significant chunk of it while you make sure that J.J. McCarthy is ready because no one knows better than a guy like Kevin O'Connell, a former quarterback, and Josh McCown, how much you can set up your quarterback for success if when he enters the league, you can afford patience and you can afford to ease him in rather than have to drop him in, like, what the bears are doing and make sure that he's the guy right away. So I don't think that this is

This is still part of the competitive rebuild And I think that they were As soon as they knew they were losing Kirk You're taking a step back And that's very self-aware of them In my opinion I don't necessarily like Blake Cashman For Jordan Hicks

Because I think Jordan Hicks meant a lot to this roster It means a lot to Brian Flores' defense Those linebackers And I do like Blake Cashman But just again, Hicks had been there forever He was such a glue guy It was like him and Harrison Smith Were the leaders of that defense

And to kind of pluck him out I didn't love that And I think an underrated departure for the Minnesota Vikings too was DJ on that interior of the defensive line just like you were talking about He didn't have any of the gaudy stats But I'll tell you like

There were so many times where I was watching these games This past season being like Oh, hi DJ Like just like just making his presence known Eating up space being aggressive And making some of these Especially these run stops that I was just like Oh God, okay

he was an excellent player completely underrated if you're asking me and I don't love letting him walk in free agency at all but again it's more about now you have guys on the edge that fit what your defensive vision is more than he did I think that they were asking him to do things or maybe outside of his skill set because when he was drafted it's for a Mike Zimmer defense there's a four three defense where you're playing a very specific sort of way now you have this weird wonky defense where you're asking your edge rushers to drop into coverage a third of the time and That's not what DJ Wanam is built for. That is what Dallas Turner and Andrew Van Ginkle are built for.

So I do think that some of the pieces that they now have allows them to kind of play into the defensive identity that they want to. So I don't know if I'm full on buying it, but I'm not slamming it either. I get the moves that they made. I just think that some of them were a little bit rich and has given them a lack of flexibility and a little bit less margin for error as we get into 2025 and beyond. even though I do know they have that comp pick coming back for Kirk Cousins to kind of supplement that draft capital. But it's doing a lot of work right now for Vikings fans. They're like that third round compic, yeah, it's huge. Yes.

They need it so definitely. When you're not when you're not picking in the second, third and fourth rounds, that second, that third round compick to stem the bleeding a little bit, it becomes very, very important. All right. Let's get to the Indianapolis Colts. Are you buying or selling the Indianapolis Colts off season? Yeah, I'm selling it from the, probably the biggest thing to me is like, one of your biggest needs, if not your biggest need coming into the traffic was corner and you didn't draft a corner. Like, and you didn't get a corner.

Like I, oh, you did. I'm sorry. They dropped it in the sixth round out of Marshall. But, I mean, you extended Kenny Moore and I get that. But then you look beyond Kenny Moore. And this roster, this death chart is all like rookies. like not even day three rookies i was like not even first round rookies like you're you're asking day three rookies to step in and be part of this corner rotation almost immediately so i am just

i didn't like that and i also think that you're putting a ton of pressure on late tu latu to stay healthy first of all because not only now because you didn't do anything in the secondary really uh you're so much hinges on your pass rush and i was looking just kind of the way way that these guys are set up and they have the Colts have one of the biggest pressure rate differentials between rushing four and rushing five in the league so like you need guys to be able to get to the quarterback you need these to in part of these blitz packages and I just don't see the personnel there outside of I mean you have lay two lot to but you also just you're putting so much pressure on that going right because if that doesn't go right your entire defense then

is up, you know, what creek? Like, I just, I don't know if I can swear on this, but like, it's just like, okay, well, you're up shit's creek, if that's the case, because I just, I don't love putting all of that on a rookie who also has had health issues. And I don't, I think they just willfully ignored so much about this defense. And then I don't really love the AD Mitchell pick. I can be proven, I'm open to being proven wrong on him,

but it can become really good ballots. you because you got him in the second round, but he fell for a reason. And everything, evaluators I talked to about him prior to the draft were very, very concerned. Not that he has diabetes, but that he doesn't know how to manage it. And if you're, if you've reached this point of your career and you still don't know how to manage something like that, with all the other pressures and distractions and everything that comes with being an NFL player, I know he hired a chef and a nutritionist and all that other stuff, but that seems like a pretty big gamble to take on a guy that you're now expecting to be your wide receiver to. I'm just wondering now,

also, you have Anthony Richardson coming off of an injury, coming off of surgery and basically restarting his rookie career, or rookie season, rather. I just, I want to know if you really thought that you were just Anthony Richardson away from, you know, being a really good team. And I know that had they won that late game against the Texans, that they would have gotten into the playoffs. But I just, you didn't do enough for me to think that you got better. And I just, I, you're leaving so much, you're hinging your entire season's success, I think this year on Anthony Richardson, coming back and just out the gate, like raising hell and, and being ready to go and being the guy that you thought he was. And then your rookie Eddresser and Lee Too Latu, kind of leading

the charge when again, he's had injury issues. And I just, I, you didn't do anything. to supplement the pass rush on the back end of the defense. I understand all of that. And I do think that the lack of movement at Corner is potentially concerning. We talked about this on a show that's going to run a little bit later this week that we've already recorded. So the timeline in my head is completely fucked up because of the things that we're banking while I'm on vacation. But the conversation that we had about the AFC East or AFC South of Tampa Zoot, you have not heard yet, but you will hear. I have had that conversation, though.

And as part of it, we were talking about why they might have not had as much urgency at Corps. And if you look at the guys who are available in free agencies specifically, outside of Legerius Sneed, which we can get to. It's a lot of guys who are going to be on their third contracts. Kendall Four, Chidobia Woozier, you know, guys like that where it's like, ah, do you really want to spend out for a 30-year-old corner, considering that your timeline and the state of where you are? I get landing on No. With Sneed, where he's a top-level player, is one of the best cores. the league last year, my sense is that they were not there on the medicals.

So if those are, if those options are off the table, I can get looking at the rest of the players you could sign a free agency and saying, we feel more comfortable letting J.1 Jones develop on the other side of Juju Brent's and seeing where that goes than over-extending ourselves and signing a guy who is a marginal upgrade that cuts off a path to development for that guy. It's a rationalization, but I think that's what drove their thinking at that position. everything else that you said, I'm with you in the sense that, okay, how are we better than we were? Because that was my main question about this team coming into the offseason. How are you going to go from this plucky little intriguing young team to a team that's a little bit scary and a little bit more dangerous?

The first answer is get the quarterback back. We know that. That is the biggest piece of this. But what else are you going to do? and I do think that dropping Latu and Ad. Mitchell into what you already have, I get that. I get that being the answer.

Because if you look at the construction of their defensive line, and I went back and I watched a lot of them last week in preparation for that other show, you have a lot of power and you have a lot of just power players and strength out front. That's how Quitty Pay plays. That's how DiO plays. That's how Grover Stewart plays.

You need somebody in that equation that can be a double-digit dozen sack guy for you potentially. And I think that's what LATU is. And I honestly think some of his weaknesses where he doesn't play with that much power, questions against the run, those are mitigated because of the play styles

you have with all the other guys up front. So as a total group and unit, I can actually get behind it. And the same thing is true for the past catchers. I think that Michael Pittman is a 1B kind of supercharge number two. So how are you going to find a true number one when you're picking in the middle of the first round and you need help at edge,

A.D. Mitchell is the type of bet. I feel comfortable making to seek that out. There's risk, right? He wasn't that productive in college. We know some of the personality concerns. But the reward, if you can find that guy in the second round, and he's really, really talented, I understand that being the plan in terms of the additions you're adding. And a lot of their fruit capital and a lot of their financial resources went to retaining a lot of the rest of this offseason. So overall as a plan, I am buying it because I think that retaining what you already had and using those two picks to supercharge potentially those position groups and those roles on offense and defense specifically, I think that's how I would have approached this if I were

the Colts outside of one more move at corner. That is the one thing that I cannot completely they ignore, but even with that in mind, I'm still tepidly buying what they did. Tepid is a great word because I just, that's why I feel, that's why I'm selling it essentially, because I'm like, it's too fragile for me. Like the late too lot, like having so much hinge on lay two lot to being that dude in his rookie season, it just, it sucks because I just, I want to make sure, I want to make sure if I could be, uh, guaranteed that his, he wouldn't be he wouldn't get injured. If I could be guaranteed again that A.D. Mitchell has

a handle on all of his health stuff and everything like that, then yeah, like, I'm absolutely buying this because it does make a lot of sense, but I just feel like it's a little bit fragile. And then I do, Grover Stewart talked today at cold camp and it was

funny because he was like, well, I want to be an elite player, so I'm going to, he's like, I'm really focusing on sacks this year because the people, they love the sacks. And I was just like, yes, they do. And honestly, that's what's going to have to happen is you're going to have to get some interior penetration on that defensive front to help out LATULatio. And if that all can come to fruition, I can get behind what this team was doing. I just, the lack of corner, especially when you could

have had, Queen John Mitchell, you could have had Terriott Arnold. There's just, like, that's always going to stick in the back of my brain. And I feel like perhaps that could have been more beneficial in the long run, especially again if Le Tulu Latu doesn't end up being that dude. But you're right, he's that edge guy. He can absolutely be he's so talented, but I just,

it's the medicals for me are just a little concerning and I just makes all of this offseason seem so fragile for the Colts and what they can look like going forward. Then the fragility to me may extend into next year because the last kind of big question I have about them in a two year time frame, are they going to

to have enough stars when they're ready to hopefully make a push by 2025 when we get year three of Anthony Richardson, year three of this version of the team building process. What I like about them is if you look at it, they went from being very old a couple of years ago to being very young in a hurry. And I think consciously leaning into that when you're doing this mini sort of reset is the right way to handle it. The problem is even being on a rookie quarterback financial timeline, this team is expensive next year. You have $26 million for DeForest Buckner, $23 million for Quentin Nelson,

$23 million for Michael Pittman, $20 million for Braden Smith, $15 million for Jonathan Taylor, $14 million for Grover Stewart, who's going to be $32, $13 million for Quitty Pay. So right now they're slated to have $235 million in obligations for 2025. So maybe like $30 or so million in cap space

if they don't touch it. Right now it's like a little less than $18 million. Yeah. So if that's going to be what you have, and you project the cap to be a little bit higher than like over the cap house, which is like 260 million or whatever, is that combination of 30-ish million dollars in cap space

and whatever wiggle room you find, you move on from a Braden Smith, you restructure somebody, whatever, is that combination of firepower and flexibility? Is that enough over the next two years to make you a player in the AFC? And the reason that this is funny is, it feels like the conversation,

the questions I've been asking about the Colts for the last like eight years. It's like, oh, there's a lot of nice pieces on this team, but do you have the high-end guys at the end of the day to make this work and to vault you into that conversation in a post-Andrew luck world? And I guess the question's going to be how much of a high-end guy and how much firepower does Anthony Richardson add to that equation? Because I feel like you're putting a lot of this on him to make it happen. Yeah, exactly.

And again, this division now with the Texans, having to get past the Texans now, that's all order. And it feels like the Texans are only going up and up and up. So I just, that and then if the Jax can figure things out, we're going to see. But this isn't going to be a cakewalk of a division. Who knows what the Tennessee Titans end up being, too, with all of the spending that they've done. They really were like, oh, we're not getting enough production out of the draft. So we're just going to go out and buy a bunch of guys. we're going to see what that materializes into.

But yeah, I mean, the biggest thing with having... It helps when you're paying your quarterback like a million bucks. Exactly. But again, the Colts are doing that too. And it's like, I mean, not quite the extent of Will Levis, but the benefit of being on a rookie contract with your quarterback is that you can spend a lot of money, but those commitments are already set in stone with the Colts. So it's, I'm going to be very interested to see going forward, you know, how much they can make noise.

in a division that's also that I like I don't know if they can catch up quick enough, especially to the Houston Texans and then maybe even the Jacks. Get to our next team here, a team you know very well. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers, are you buying or selling the bucks off season? I'm buying it. And again,

I think it's going a little underrated because a lot of this wasn't sexy, but it was fun. And I, Graham Barton was my offensive line draft crush. So the fact that he, He ended up on the Buccaneers. It was really fun for me. I love what Robert Hainesie has been able to do

and stepping in for Ryan Jensen, who we didn't know what his status was. He inevitably retires. But Hainzie is not, he's just not like his base. He's not built correctly. I don't think for his center and he's trying to make him, he's got a little,

he put a lot of weight on, but his trunk is just, I'm trying to like say this delicately. his trunk just isn't there there was all the stuff going on about butts and I'm like you don't like the Hainesie just doesn't have the butt for a center if that makes

it or guy but Graham Barton again has so much position of flexibility and he's so athletic and I think that that's something that bucks are going to prioritize at center so we'll see if that knocks Hainesie back into a backup role if they

try to move him over to guard you've got some competition there because you do have needs there. I really like Chris Braswell, a Braswell from Bama. That is going to be, they really like Yaya Diabi in Tampa. And they think that he can materialize and absolutely take over for losing Shaq Barrett, who had kind of been on a downward trajectory in his career as it was. I'm still holding out a little bit of hope that Joe Try and Shinga can turn into something. But while you see if that can happen, you have Yaya Diabia. And now you're, you have Chris Brayeswell and you have this edge rotation that is so incredibly important in

Todd Bowles' defense. And I like the pairing of all of these guys together. And one thing about Yaya Diabi that is going a little bit overlooked, he didn't generate a ton of pressures last year as a rookie, only at 26, but he had the second highest sack rate conversion of all qualified rushers last year. So it was like a 28.28% I think it was. So basically, like if he's getting pressures, he's getting sacks. And I think that that bodes well for what his ceiling is and the kind of player that he can turn into if he kind of knows how to make that conversion between just getting pressure and actually getting to the quarterback.

So I like that rotation. The thing is it's so easy for those guys because the interior defensive line is just a bunch of monsters. It's Vita Vaya, it's Kalejic. It's Logan Hall, who was their first round pick a couple years ago. go. So now, like, you have this rotation of just absolute bee feeders. And I love the fact that that can then, I can translate into penetrating from the interior, but also it just makes it really easy for the guys on the edge that you don't really need to put a lot of emphasis on there. The one thing that I was a little surprised at was the fact that they didn't go after a corner in this draft.

They didn't draft a corner at all. And you let, you traded away Carlton Davis to the Detroit Lions. with the, I have to imagine, with the attitude of like, well, we got Carlton Davis in, there's the second or third round. And so, like, you got him on day two. So we can get another guy on day two, except they didn't go out and get a guy on day two. Now, from everything, I've talked to people over there at By, they just didn't like the value for anybody that was available where they were picking. And I understand that.

But again, this is going to kind of, you have the safety, the Georgia safety. Tai Chi Smith, yeah. Yeah, then he might play in the nickel for them, which I think potentially makes sense. Exactly. And like we've seen three safety looks from Todd Bowles' defense quite a bit. And that I absolutely expect that he's going to be kind of your nickel guy and you're going to rotate those guys. You just made Antoine Printfield Jr. the highest paid defensive back ever, I was very excited for him there. And the way that they're kind of the cadence in which they're paying guys and the way that their contracts are set up to. I think it's sustainable and they've shown that it is sustainable.

You know, you have all the Brady money off the books now and that was such a huge thing. And the fact that they had as much success as they did last year without that is, again, a really good sign. The only other question I could think of to is the inside linebacker spot where you let Devin White go. But Devin played himself out of a lot of money last year. You could see that he was very cognizant of not wanting to get injured because he knew that he was in for a contract year. And he wanted to make sure that in doing that, though, he really kind of took himself out of plays. He overpursued a little bit.

You could just, it wasn't there. The leadership wasn't there. And in that kind of rubble of him kind of collapsing, you have K.J. Britt, who emerged from that. And he is that leader. And he's that guy that, like, Loxon, they've loved him since they drafted him a couple years ago. And now you're seeing what he's able to do in the fact that not only is he incredibly physical,

he loves to hit people. He's a really goofy guy off the field, but on the field, it's like a switch flips, and he is an absolute monster. He is a missile, and he can, again, he can overpursue, but he seems like what they wanted Devin White to turn into. They wanted Devin White to be a part of the pass rush. And Devin wanted that for so long, and then when it came to his contract year, he was too worried about getting injured. So now you have KJ. Britt, who doesn't have any of those concerns doesn't seem to have any sort of regard for his own body or health for that matter. But it results in a guy that is really easy to get behind and he can be a leader along the middle of the defense with Levante David, who they brought on again.

So I really like this defense. And again, we know how creative it can get the different for the multiple fronts, you know, the playing of safety is at the zero, the dropping these massive defensive linemen into coverage in having them play inside backer. it's a really fun scheme and they have a lot of interesting and versatile pieces to do it. So I think they're going to be fine from that regard. And I really, again, like what they did along the offensive line. That was something that was huge to be able to like fortify in front of Baker Mayfield,

who now you've made an investment in. And then you have Mike Evans, you have Chris Godwin and you have some really good tight ends to. And I'm interested to see what this run scheme looks like now that their offensive line coaches are gone. and their run game coordinator, I should say, is also gone. They went to Carolina with Canales. So now you're going to infuse with Liam Cohen's new system. You're going to infuse a new run scheme into this. That's hopefully a little bit more creative than what we've seen out of the bucks

because it was basically just duo over and over and over again. Well, that was part of the button last year. And you're trying to figure out how this offense can't get better. Baker played some really good football last year. Their running game was horrendous. I mean, they were dead last, the rushing success rate. So hopefully you drop Graham Barton into that mix. They bring in Kevin Carberry as the offensive line coach.

she was with the Rams when Liam Cohen was there a couple years ago. I get hiring Liam Cohen as your offensive coordinator. This is just what we do now. We just pick off whatever Shanahan McVeigh guy is available and now he's our coordinator. That being said, I think it's important to recognize that these were two guys that the Rams moved on from two years ago. And then the Rams had that ridiculous season offensively last year where everything about who they were on that side of the ball felt energized and inspired and refraised. and refreshed, and that's when these guys were gone. So just putting that out there,

to just want to acknowledge that as we figure out what the staff looks like and what the results may be. The other thing you mentioned about Corner, I'm with you. The fact that they did not replace Carlton Davis or weren't more aggressive in trying to, that was a little bit surprising.

So that was really the only position I was a little bit surprised that they did not address. Other than that, I get everything that they did. They brought back all these guys. They brought back Mike Evans. they brought back Levante David. They brought back Antoine Winfield. So maintaining that core pieces that you already had

while trying to supplement it in ways that I think make total sense. Dropping Graham Barton in the middle of your offensive line to try to give that run game a jumpstart. Fine, totally get that. Jalen McMillan and his skill set as a third round pick. Now, if you lose Chris Godwin next off season, you have a potential slot option that's coming up. So you have Palmer, you have Jaylen McMillan, you have Mike Evans.

That makes sense in a post-Christ Godwin world if we eventually do go down that timeline. And the Baker thing, it's a lot of money, right, for a guy who made $4 million bucks last year. But I get it. I get it. He played well last season.

And if you look at when the money really kicks in, which is next year, I think this year his cap it is really small. Next year, it's $35 million. That's 15th in the NFL among starting quarterbacks. It's going to look better and better. That's fine, right? Like, that's kind of what Baker is.

And that's the level that he played at. last year. So I think this is a team that's going to be relatively competitive. I don't know what ultimately is going to put them over the top if something does over the next couple years, but everything they did this offseason, I look at it. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. That's probably what I would have done as well. So I get it even if I'm still a little bit, not even concerned. Even if I still have questions about their ceiling, I can buy the way that they approach this offseason overall. Yeah. And I think that that's kind of the name of the game because, I mean,

they've won the division three times, three years running now. And they've been able to carry over some of that success. And I just think that a lot of what they're doing is, again, putting the pressure, but also putting the onus on the defense. And that makes sense when you consider that Todd Bowles

is now the head of this football team. And it has had success doing that. So it insulates a little bit against, you can have a guy like Baker Mayfield, who's kind of a mid-tier quarterback captaining that offense. And as long as you do have, offensive line and a serviceable run game and all that other stuff. This defense should hopefully, or at least what they're banking on, is limit the amount of

points that opponents are scoring so that you can just, you only need 20 to 25 points a game if you're the Bucks offense. And again, it's just, it's a vote of confidence. And this is one of those teams where it really does lean on who the head coach is in Tampa. And that's, and that's Todd Bowles, whose defense always wants the responsibility. I mean, that's something that I remember from my time there while Todd was just defensive coordinator, he did operate very autonomously because Bruce Ariens was the head coach. And all of his guys had the same mentality of we want the game to be on the line.

We want to be on the field at all times. Like, we want to put that responsibility on ourselves. And this roster construction really reflects that to me. Let's get to our next one here. The Las Vegas Raiders. Are you buying or selling the Raiders off season? Oh boy. No, I'm, I've got to sell it. Yeah. That's why I was, you know, I don't really have a choice. Like, what should make me buy it? Right. Like, again, if your biggest question mark is your quarterback, I can't get on board with anything else that you've done. I can't. And I just, I think, like, especially because from everything we've all heard, like, Vegas was very much trying to draft a quarterback. And it never worked. out that way. So now you're left with a gigantic question mark. I don't know who is throwing

Devante Adams the ball. So that's where it kind of popped into my brain of like, okay, well, he's probably not happy. Is there enough self-awareness in Las Vegas to, because if you, if you cut ties with them now, it's like you have $7.85 million in dead cap that you have to contend with, but you save about $15 million. And then next year, you kind of have to reckon with. 15 million. I think it might actually might even be more than that. You save more than that this year. But you save a boatload. And then next year you have to contend with a $15 million dead cap it. But that's what you're going to have to do anyway with the out that he has in his contract after next year. I don't know if that's realistic. He's a $44 million cap it next year.

Devante Adams does. So one way or another, they're going to have to touch that with an extension or moving on from him. And if you're going to move on from him, then what do we, what do we doing? Like, I just don't, this is one of those teams. You look at it. You go sign Christian Wilkins. Pay Christian Wilkins a gazillion dollars. I understand that. You have the money in your pocket and the interior defensive line is probably the weakest spot on your entire roster. That's the best guy available. Let's go get that guy. Okay, that's fine. What is the two-year outlook for this team? Like, what do the 2025 Raiders want to be? You have $100 million right now tied up in Devante Adams, Christian Wilkins and Max Crosby.

good players, but you have no answer or a quarterback. You have a couple. There's several other holes on your roster. You still need another corner somewhere along the way. This defense was really good last year. But some of these pieces that you have, Devante is going to be 33 next year. Colt Miller is going to be 30 next year. Trevon Morg and Nate Hobbs are both free agents, both guys who were important pieces on that defense that overperformed last season. Are you going to bring them back?

You don't have a lot of financial flexibility because you have all these expensive pieces. So I don't necessarily hate anything that they did, and I understand the Wilkins signing, but this is just another team that I have a hard time figuring out. Like you draft Brock Bowers in the top 15. He's going to come in, I think, nominally be your slot receiver, so you can use him with Michael Mayer,

but was that the best use of resources? Was Luke Getzi the best move? Was Tom Telesco the best move? So there are so many things about this where I just, it feels uninsenged. It feels uninspired and it feels like there is a lack of a cohesive plan here. And when you've had three general managers in the last nine months, I guess that's how this works. But this is a team that doesn't feel like it has any sort of understanding of what its medium and long-term vision should be.

That's what it feels like to me. No. And I don't think it does, especially like the Lou Gezzi thing is really head-scratching to me because, again, if you have a defensive head coach, which they have in Las Vegas, now you're asking Luke Getzzi to be the head coach of the offense. And we saw how that went in Chicago with, I mean, last year, it wasn't, the roster wasn't constructed like it is now, but last year, it was a serviceable offense that you should be able to figure out what to do.

And I'm really concerned about what he has planned for Brock Bowers, because Brock Bowers is such an anomaly. He's so, such a unique player. like it's oversimplifying just saying oh well he's going to be like a slot receiver really and i know that getsy comes from a system in green bay that loves using tight ends because he came up under matla floor but are you using them correctly i feel like it's going to take someone like matliflor or even like shay waldron like i really like brock bowers for the bears to be quite honest and because of the fact that he has that flexibility of being basically another receiver and when they were only really

needing a wide receiver free i'm like well now you can get a tight end which you know waldron builds his play action off of multiple tight end sets. I'm like, that makes a lot of sense to me. Regardless, I don't think that that's the case. Like, I don't see the system being creative enough in Las Vegas to really truly utilize Brock Bowers. And again, who's throwing him the ball? Is it a Gardner Man's shoe? Is it A. and O'Connell? Can either of them handle that? I don't know the answer to that. It's just, if you have the quarterback question mark, then your entire offense to me. And then also, you got rid of a guy, you let Josh Jacobs. walk who again can be a guy that a young quarterback or a developing quarterback or a quarterback question

mark can lean on it doesn't make any sense to me and again the aging of a lot of these players that's why again i kind of kind of kept going back to like i'm like all right are you going to let monta adams just like go and fly fly and be free and maybe you know pick a spot that you can get something back for i don't know it does it doesn't make any sense to me and i don't i didn't like their draft. I don't really like Jackson Powers Johnson. If you're asking him to be your answer, I think they're moving him to guard too.

They're moving in the guard because they kept Andre James and they had a whole at guard. Yes, they did. But I just I don't like Jackson Powers Johnson's footwork. I think that was the biggest knock on him in the draft. And talking to some offensive line coaches and people that have watched him, I just,

they're all very concerned about that too. So now you're asking him to switch positions as well. I just I don't know. I don't like any of it. I don't know what the Raiders are. I don't know what the Raiders are. The other thing, too, they led to league. Antonio Pierce led the league in using in Nickel. And it was like 82% of the defensive snaps are spent in Nickel.

And if you look at their roster, who are they trotting out in that formation? It just they don't have enough depth. They don't have enough of a rotation. it makes no sense to me. The corner situation is definitely concerning. And I think that is the Brock Bowers move. I get thinking Brock Bowers is a really good player, but it comes

at the expense of being able to draft a cornerback in that spot. And they still, I think, are in need of another outside corner. And Jack Jones played very well for them last year. And it's a chance that if he continues playing at that level, that's a coup. Nate Hobbs is a really good player, but we're still one outside corner short. They dropped the guy in the

fourth round last year that I think is going to be able to he's going to be at the best shot at winning that job, but I still think they've given themselves not a lot of options there. And the offensive line, I appreciate how many contingency plans they built into this. Because even if Fondres Pete and

Cody Whitehair were available for a reason, those are guys who have played a lot of football. So at least now you have some depth at those spots. Thayer Munford was solid for them last year, giving him one more year as a starter, glazed the guy they drafted in the third round again, where those developmental pieces. Let's see what happens.

I don't mind the plan along the offensive line. I don't even mind the plan overall in terms of some of the position groups that they really invested in. This is just one of those teams where it's just like, I don't understand how it all comes together. And I don't know if we're ever going to get an answer on that over the next couple years. No. And I mean, you look at the depth along the outside corner rotation too. And it's a lot of day three guys and rookies at that. I just, I don't know.

Especially, again, when you're considering that Antonia Pierce is a defensive guy, like how do you not take care of stuff like that? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And I don't know that I love what they did even along the offensive line, just given the fact that Andrews Pete, Cody Whitehair, now that they're getting older, they're showing it. And I don't know what their availability is realistically going to be like. And I also just don't like shuffling around offensive linemen.

I don't think that that's a viable thing, especially when you have, again, wild cards under center. I think stability is the name of the game there, and they don't have any of that across any of these positions that we're talking about. Get to our last one here, Seattle Seahawks. You buy and sell in the Seattle Seahawks offseason. Yeah, I'm buying. Yeah.

Like, I still don't really know who they think they are, but I'm indifferent toward it because they didn't, This is a holding pattern. Like, they didn't really do much, so I don't have a lot of strong feelings one way or another. I, like, I think maybe a lot of it has to do with just letting Mike McDonald settle in a little bit, although I think that's what it is. Does you see those videos of him and John Schneider during the draft? Like, it was so sitcom-y. Like, they were like, clearly the social media person for the team was like, hey, you guys should encourage fans to tune into the draft.

And so, like, it's the two of them in their, like, team-issued year. And they're like, hey, guys, let's do that. And, like, it was so over-the-top and, like, sitcom me. But they actually, like, played it off very well. And it does seem like they have a really good, I don't know, relationship. But it was so funny to me. That being said, I think that this is just, yeah, this is Mike McDonald trying to, and he didn't even really have to overhaul the roster,

but making sure that he's getting his guys in. the new linebackers in the middle he loves his linebackers he can develop linebackers too so like I'm you can give me I can buy that what it was Tyrese Knight in the third round I did like him in New Mexico State obviously it's not the same school

but it's in the same state Brian Erlacker that was my brain trying to rationalize things I loved the Byron Murphy pick though I mean I think that that is that screams Mike McDonald that screams what you you can make this defense into. I know that there were so many other teams, the guys that I talked to there that were absolutely in love with Byron Murphy.

So the fact that the Seattle Seahawks got him really, I love that. And you re-signed Leonard Williams. So like you have the rookie and the vet and all those wonderful little storylines to go along with that. I just, I don't really know if they think that they're in, like if they're making a push this year,

if they're not, That's what it feels like. It feels like wait and see. Where you're coming in, it's year one. Let's see what we have. Let's see if we keep a majority of the roster the same, is bringing in a guy who was arguably the best defensive coordinator in the league last year to run your defense.

Plus a guy I'm excited about, and Ryan Grubb, their offensive coordinator, who they brought in from Washington. I think his offense is dynamic. I think it's exciting. I think they have the pieces to run it. So is that change enough to theoretically, get the most out of your offense, combined with some improvements on the interior, right?

This is a team, John Schneider has been very vocal about this. He's not going to overinvest in guards. That's fine. The rest of the league seems to think it's time. He does not. They draft Christian Haynes in the third round. So is better offensive line health a little bit more on the interior and a new offensive coordinator enough to unlock this group and is Mike McDonald enough to unlock the defense?

That seems to be the game that they're playing. Because even those linebackers that they side, they go get Jerome Baker and Tyro Dodson, one-year deals each. So that's not like these are long-term investments. They shot Ray Sean Jenkins to a two-year deal, but it's a pretty modest deal. The only real big splashy thing they did, money-wise, this off-season,

was signed Leonard Williams to that extension, which felt very rich to me, but you traded a second-round pick for a guy. You probably need to do it to save a little bit of face, and that's how this stuff often works, even if I think that's how you make mistakes. But it's honestly even hard for me to give it a buy or sell, because it almost just feels incomplete.

Like, I'm mostly in different toward it because there isn't enough for me to have a strong feeling about. That is my take on the Seattle's Seahawks off season. Yeah, and I mean, when I look at their roster, the thing I'm most excited about, they didn't really do much with, which is the secondary. And again, like, I think obviously Seattle has held to a little bit higher of a standard,

given their history with the Legion of Boom and stuff. But, like, you look at like Julian Love, and then you've got Reek-Wollen, and you've got Devon Witherspoon, who was my draft crash last year, like this secondary is incredible. And I can buy that. And I'm most excited about seeing what Mike McDonald can do

in the back end of this defense. But again, it really, that wasn't part of what they did this year. So I guess, like, that to me just tells me that they were taking stock of the roster and they were just infusing it with a couple of things that Mike McDonald, wanted and like there's only so much you can do in the draft and in the one off season. So it is

just kind of wait and C mode for them. But like if you told me that Seattle Seahawks ended up with 11 wins this year, I'd be like, oh, okay. If you told me they ended up with like six wins. I'd be like, sure. Yeah, that makes sense. There's still figuring some stuff and some kinks out. It's, I, I really don't know what to make of them. And I don't really know what they make of themselves. This has been a borderline top-time offense each of the last couple of years. Defense is where they have struggled to figure things out. And it's not like they've hemorrhage talent on that side of the ball. I mean, the guys they've lost from last year's starting group were essentially

Jamal Adams and Quandre Dix. And I think the Seahawks would tell you they think they upgraded and got cheaper at safety this offseason. So if that's the case, if that's a lateral move at worse than safety, you bring in Byron Murphy and you bring in a guy like McDonald who, you have some confidence in deploying your guys in more effective ways than the last. couple groups have been able to, there's no reason this team can't be decently competitive this year. My question is, what comes next after that? Because at some point, something's got to give

with some of these deals. The Seahawks right now are set to be $16 million over the 2025 cap. Metcalf is extremely expensive. Lockett is extremely expensive. Leonard Williams is extremely expensive. Gino's making $38 million against the cap next year. So how they ultimately figure that out, that's a receiver trade, whether that's moving on from Gino to a very cheap option in somebody like Sam Howell, those are kind of the questions I have in the back of my mind, but those are for future John Schneider and future Mike McDonald to worry about. In the meantime, I think that they just want to get a sense of what they actually have to work with moving forward. And I think it's a pretty decent amount. I think that they're going to

be a competitive team at the very least with this group intact. If they trade D.K. Mekaff tomorrow, that becomes a slightly different conversation. But right now, as things currently stand, I get approaching it this way. And it's why I'm kind of like on the fence. I don't even want to say by yourself because, again, I don't even think there's enough there for me to have any strong feelings about. Yeah, I don't think in the long term, I don't see all of these receivers. I don't see D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett being on this roster together for much longer.

If that's this season, if something's made next year because of the fact they get so extremely expensive. And there's other guys that you have to pay. and you do have to figure out what the heck you're doing at quarterback in the long term. And if Geno is your long term answer or, yeah, if Sam Howell can push him, I don't know. But it's just it doesn't seem like they have any sort of, they're just, again, in wait and C mode, you're right. I can't really, I don't know who they're going to end up being and what they think they're

going to be. But I do think that they're still going to lean really heavily on this defense once they figure out and kind of tailor it to Mike McDonald's preferences, because again, I think that Mike McDonald is a guy where that, like, because he's your defensive head coach, that becomes your team's identity, which again, is like the Bucks, unlike the Bears.

Mike McDonald's, though, philosophy, I think, kind of permeates and creates a little bubble over the team of like, no, we're a defensive team now. And I think that that's what the Seahawks will be again moving forward. But you're right, that's been the question mark the last few years. So making that switch, I think this is just a transition year.

excited to get those answers. Excited to get answers about a lot of the teams we talked about because they're in the middle class I think this could go either way. A lot of pivot points with these eight teams.

So we're going to see what happens. Carmen Metall, I sincerely appreciate the time. Appreciate you taking the time to do this. We will talk very soon. Sounds great. Thanks.

All right, guys, that's all we got. Thank you so much to Carmen for her time. I am on vacation right now. So we will have some of an intermittent schedule for you over the next week or so. We're going to have our next

lingering questions show on Thursday with me and Dan Pizzuta. So please be on the lookout for that. We're talking AFC South, as I alluded to on this show. Next week, plan is to have a lingering question show coming away on Thursday again with my buddy, Stephen Ruiz from the Ringer. We may have something else coming your way on Tuesday. Have not quite figured that out yet. You will have answers on that before you listen to this.

So just be on the lookout for that. In the meantime, really appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you. This was the Athletic Football Show.