The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Can the Cardinals new scheme unlock Marvin Harrison Jr.?

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Sometimes all a player needs to break through is a new coach or a change of scenery. A new scheme can unlock something can unlock something in any number of players, and those guys can go on to dramatically affect the landscape of the league. Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman highlight potential Scheme Change All-Stars on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.0:00 Welcome to the show0:29 Live show announcement5:19 Ashton Jeanty & Las Vegas Raiders10:07 Jack Bech & Raiders15:59 Mike Evans & San Francisco 49ers23:44 Jalen Thompson & Dallas Cowboys31:23 Marvin Harrison Jr & Arizona Cardinals36:57 Chris Rodriguez & Jacksonville Jaguars43:57 Jalen Ramsey & Pittsburgh Steelers49:04 Logan Hall & Houston Texans54:09 A'Shawn Robinson & Tampa Bay BuccaneersJoin The Athletic Football Show Discord Server: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowHost: Robert MaysCo-Hosts: Derrik Klassen and Dave HelmanExecutive Producer: Michael BellerSenior Producer: Katy DuffySocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dave on Bluesky: @davehelman.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @RobertMaysFollow Dave on X: @DaveHelman_Theme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today. We dug into some scheme change all stars on today's show. About 10 guys that, for whatever reason, they're either changing teams and playing in a different system or a different system is coming to them because of a coaching change. Players that as their circumstances shift,

we're going to see something a little bit different from them. Maybe they take a leap. Maybe they look like a truer version of the player we thought they might be as a prospect. Really enjoyed digging into this group with Dave and Derek. one little bit of housekeeping before we get to that show. We are doing another live show. September 1st, Tuesday at Lincoln Hall in Chicago, doing one before the season this time. We're going to do the winspool draft at the live show.

That is what we are going to do. And so if you want to come enjoy that, jeer us, criticize the picks in real time, mock Derek. All of those things are on the table. Like, I would enjoy all of that. So we're doing that at Lincoln Hall. Really enjoyed the one we did last year right before the playoffs. Tickets go on sale July 27th. So please be on the lookout for that.

If you want to join the Discord, that would be a great chance to kind of get all of the update, updates and real-time notifications about when those tickets are going on sale. Going to bring up the Discord a lot between now and the start of the season. Now is the time to get involved if you are not already. We have wins pools that are happening in the Discord. So we're doing three person wins pools within the Discord. We've got like 150 people already signed up for those. And so if you want to do your own, that's where you can do it.

A lot of fun stuff happening. Really fun show today. Let's get to it with me, Dave and Derek, right now. I've been looking forward to this one because we haven't really talked about what some of the shifting situations in the NFL might yield for players during the 2026 season. And so what we wanted to dig into today was players who have changed situations or changed schemes for one of two reasons. Either guys change teams.

And so they're going to a new scheme because they're in a new place or we have a new play caller on either side of the ball. And the situations for this player are going to look dramatically different in 2026. We've seen this happen where if you change what is being asked of you, the role you're being played, the way you're being deployed, Derek, you can look like a drastically different player. And so that's what we're going to try to dig into today. A handful of guys that for whatever reason may look a little bit different in 2026 than they looked last year. I'm extremely excited for this one. I think I ended up with all players who actually did move teams.

It wasn't just bringing in coordinators. But I think even a couple of these players, though, might change the scheme that they're going to and might change what the play caller is going to do. So that was kind of like my separate angle for getting into things. I like the synergy of what I'm hearing here because most of mine are guys that I think will benefit from new coaching. Like I have one or two guys that change teams, but a lot of my guys are getting new coaches. I have two and two. So, Derek, if you have guys that are going to be changing the schemes that are part of, do you have a lot of like high profile players as part of this?

I have one big one and then I would say in terms of changing the scheme, it's mostly one big one. And then I would say another one that like the team clearly tried to read. structure how they're shaping that room is what I would say. Gotcha. Okay. I was because I was going to say I got a couple like smallish players that I'm excited. I can't wait to hear that because Beller told me that. Beller told me you had some deep cuts and I, most of mine are fairly obvious and I just

looking through everything and looking at the different teams. I was like, if we're talking about how you're going to affect the scheme of your team, like I'm looking for somebody who's doing more than playing a role. So I'm, I'm curious to see what you came up with. All right, so let me, give me an example. What was the first one that you wanted to talk about? Okay. Scheme change all stars for 2026.

Can we start? I'm going to start this off with a parameter that I set for myself. And y'all don't have to because I figure somebody will touch on this. I went into this with a no chargers rule. I also had no chargers because you could do all of them. I like, yeah. I didn't either because in the NFL media to be excited about the Mike McDaniel Chargers. It's, it's so true because I was thinking about doing Ladd-McConkey.

and I was kind of like, eh, we're already going to do this 100 times between now and week one. I've already seen so many people do. Ladd McConkey's going to be Jalen Wattle. And like, that probably is going to be true. But again, that's like everybody is trying to do that one, especially like all the fantasy people. Keith Mitchell is exciting. Well, Keith Mitchell is going to the same ski. I guess I mean, he's not really.

I'm just imagining Keith Mitchell being Devon A chance. So I'm just imagining him being in the same offense. I know that's not right. I opened up my laptop and I was like, No effing chargers. Like we don't need one more voice being excited about this. And for the record, I am. You did that.

I did the exact same thing. For the record, I am excited about the chargers. I just figure you don't need one more person telling you that. That's great. Having said that, I went about as obvious as I possibly could with my first person. And that would be Ashton Genty, who I just think is in a really, really good spot for a bounce back in year two. I also have a raider. The opposite of the Chargers,

you could have had all the Raiders. Sure. Every single Raider, like, all the offensive linemen, I think, are actually really interesting. We could have done Raiders' offensive linemen because I think that the scheme change, you think about what the change, obviously going out and getting Gray's Abel was important for the Seahawks, right?

And Abe Luk is staying healthy, and there are a lot of reasons that the Seahawks offensive line played well on the merits of the players. But they went from maybe the least friendly offensive line environment to the league to one of the most friendly offensive line and myerments in the league. And that's exactly what the Raiders are doing.

So we could have picked your Raider. I also have one, but Gentie is a great place to start. I just, it is obvious. And what's funny is, obviously, the advanced stats are really bad. The Raiders had one of the worst running games in the NFL. But from a pure counting stat perspective, Ashton Genty was perfectly productive.

He just didn't set the NFL on fire the way a lot of us hoped that he might. But you talk about things working in his favor between getting, I mean, obviously the quarterback goes without saying anything, but getting Clint Kubiak and then the Raiders immediately investing in a good sinner. And we can say whatever. You can say that. Okay. My first note literally says, say what you want about the cost it took to get him.

I think it still matters that Vegas got Tyler Linderbaum. And even if you don't like, even if you think the contract is ridiculous and he's not a top three center, he is unquestionably and upgrade from what they have. And it's also an important piece of this for the Kyle Shanahan coaching tree. The scheme fit is just, even if they paid a premium, it's so, so easy to imagine

why he will work there and why he will help that offense. If you want Wilde over your ski's statements because it's July and that's what we do, it just prioritizing center immediately when you get there reminds me of Shanahan seeking out Alex Mack when he got to Atlanta. He's done it like three different times.

Yeah. What was that? Oh, my God. Now I'm forgetting the guy's name. Who's the guy in San Francisco that he signed from the Giants? Immediately after getting there. Weston Richburg. Remember Weston Richburg?

Oh, my God. I remember him coming out of the draft now. Yes. Oh, my God. I think. Talk about deep cuts. One of my, one of my favorite dots to connect is like,

who does a first time coach prioritize when he, especially if it's like a, like first time being a head coach, not just first year on a new job. Like, what do you prioritize? times for your team. Tyler Linderbaum's contract is hilarious, but he's a good player.

And what Clint Kubiak likes to do, like that's going to come in handy. And I just think Ashton Genty stands to benefit in a big, big way. I totally agree. I think another one that this reminds me of, obviously Shanahan bringing a center everywhere that he goes is a big one. It also reminds me a little bit of like when Sean McVeigh got to Los Angeles, he went and made sure that he could get Andrew Whitworth. and obviously left tackle is different than center,

but he was like, we have this star incredible running back who was just running into brick walls the entire previous season. Let's go out and make sure we can beef up the offensive line. And then I'm going to make sure that we have a good run game system for us. And this guy is going to be able to be unleashed. So like Gentie, I think it's easy to like, again, we could have done almost any raider. There was actually, I had a colonel of like,

Kirk Cousins, I think is actually like an underrated one that you could have picked. He's going home. That's why. Right, exactly. he's getting comfy now. But Gentie, I think is the obvious one. Because I think with Bowers, we've already seen what the peak can look like. With Gentie, I think we're still want to see it.

But I just think the scheme that they're going to put together for him, actually having a center who can get on the move and really do all the outside zone stuff they're going to want to do, it's absolutely perfect. I'm glad you went to outside zone, Derek, because my favorite stat that I pulled while I was looking at it is that even with the Raiders, bad offensive line and worst in the NFL running game last year, Genti's success rate running outside the tackles was almost 40% and a solid like 10 percentage points higher than running in between the tackles. And we know what the Shanahan tree likes to do.

Wide Zone is going to be a big part of this. Getting him outside the tackles is going to be a big part of this. And Genty is clearly well suited for that. He also, he forced a mistackle on 37% of his outside runs last year, which was among running backs that had 50% of, or more attempts top six in the league. Like, he was pretty successful for the situation that he was in. And I think the situation is going to be a lot better this year.

And I think he's going to benefit tremendously. Well, let's stick with the Raiders, because I also have a raider on my list. I'm going with Jack Besh. Okay. Is this a Cooper Cup-ish sort of role type of thing? Yes. Yeah. That's exactly what it is.

And I, before I even get into this, I want to apologize. about comparing Cooper Cup to Jack Besh. I just want to get in front of that before we even start having this conversation. I know that it's like the worst type of analysis is comparing athletically limited white receiver to athletically

limited white receiver. But in this specific case, I think it's so obvious what sort of role Jack Besh can fill within the Raiders offense because it truly is just a one for one for what Cooper Cup did for the Seahawks last year. Among

all all the players in the NFL, and especially because it's all we've seen from Jack Besh because he was a rookie, I think you can make an argument that his deployment and usage within the Raiders offense last year was one of the more curious things a coaching staff did with any single player in the league. Like Jack Besh is a big bodied over the middle, like zone beating space player. And the Raiders, for whatever reason, maybe it was because they didn't have any other options, decided that sticking him out as like an isolated ex-receiver as a rookie was the right way to handle it, I don't understand anything about it.

And then you look at all the nice moments that he had. He caught like a big crossing route against the Colstrom a condensed split. He had a really nice like third and medium, third and short, like inside win from the slot against the chargers and it. Like he only had like 29 targets last year. So you can watch them all very quickly. but every single one of Jack Bess's nice moments last season came when he was either in the slot,

which they did on about less than 30% of his snaps or in some sort of condensed alignment. That's all he's going to do with the Raiders. And we've been talking a lot this off season about what are the Raiders going to do a receiver? What are the Raiders going to do a receiver even after signing Jalen Naylor? And I truly do think that if Jack Bess just plays a role

that's like a younger version of what we saw from 2025 Cooper Cup, combined with Brock Bowers and Jalen Naylor, like there is a world like we were saying at the beginning where this system and this offense is raising the tide for a lot of these guys where this group looks a lot better the past catchers than they do on paper Derek. I think so. And like Jack Bish, I think is absolutely going to get a ton of run because you need size in this offense, especially as much as they are probably going to run the ball.

And like, I know that Trey Tucker is a burner and I know that they signed Jalen Ailer. But Cooper Cup played as much as he did last year, even when the Seahawks acquired Rashid who like Kubiak was familiar with. because he's a bigger-bodied guy and he can align closer to the, obviously to the core of the formation and do some of the blocking stuff and be more of that over-the-middle winner in a way that, like, again, Rashid Shaheed is a really good player, but he's not going to do.

And then I think you spin that forward to this Raiders team. Like, that's not really what Trey Tucker does. Like Jalen Naylor, a little bit maybe in the underneath area, but like not really. Like in terms of that box between like the painted numbers and that like eight to 20 area, like Jack Bess and obviously Brock Bowers, those are the guys that you want to have open there. And I do think those two can coexist within an offense like this. Totally.

Because the thought is, all right, if Brock Bowers is going to be your primary slot receiver as part of this, what role does Jack Bess have? And I would go to two different areas where I kind of push back on that a little bit. One is just the sheer amount of condensed sets that you're going to see from the Ciox this year. I think it was like 55% of total snaps last year per next gen.

It was in the highest rates, if not the highest rate in the entire league. And the other part is that in some of these, heavier sets when they have multiple tight ends on the field, the Seahawks last year per next gen, 302 total plays out of twin tight end looks. And so even if you're in

12, if you have both of those tight, now is the fourth highest rate in the week, or four highest number in the week. So even if you're in a lot of these 12 personnel looks, if you have both tight ends on one side and then both the receivers on the other, even in 12 personnel, you have a slot receiver in the way that Jack Besh wants to play. And so I don't know

if impressed is the right word, but Going back and watching him this morning and just what he did as a rookie, I just think he'll look like a drastically different player in this offense than he looked in the Chip Kelly offense last year. We're all, we're just willing to give pretty much everybody that was associated with Adam Mulligan at this point, right? I was just about to say that. I get a lot of shit for this and I completely understand because there are definitely

times where I over index on it and it's silly. The play caller thing is so real. the environment that you exist in in the NFL and how much of a difference it can make and what you look like and what the offense feels like and when it's cohesive and when it's not. I've said this two years ago. Remember when we were talking about Caleb Williams

and Jane Daniels and I still think this where the right offensive ecosystem is a multiplier in a positive way and the wrong offensive ecosystem is a multiplier in a negative way. Like if you can come in and Clint Kubiak and did what he did in Seattle last year and every guy in the offense becomes 1.5 times as good as he should be compared to the 0.75 times as good as he should be from last year,

that it makes a massive, massive difference. And based on what Klubeak, what Klan Kubiak did last season, I think he absolutely deserves the benefit of doubt as one of those guys who's going to have that sort of impact. We talk about this all the time, and I weigh it a little more heavily than others do, but the track record goes back to the Saints for me as well. And you go look at, I'm going back to Ashton Genty, but you look at what he was able to do for the Saints running game in 2024, even with all the injuries that they had that year,

I firmly, firmly believe that this is going to look pretty good, even for a team that's clearly in transition. That's certainly going to look a lot better than it did last year. All right, Derek, we got two Raiders. Who's your first guy that you wanted to talk about? I mean, I'll stay on the West Coast. And this is my only real big ticket item. And this is the player that I do think is going to have to,

the play caller acquired them so that they can change the scheme. And that's Mike Evans going to the San Francisco 49ers. Like they have not had Kyle Shanahan hasn't really had an extra receiver like this in a very long time. They've had guys who can like moonlight it a little bit. But this is a true like his best routes are like deep stop routes, deep out routes, go balls, post. Like that is the Mike Evans route tree. And I think why he allows them, why he allows them to do this sort of scheme changes.

So much of the offense recently is that because, all the receivers they have, even if they're good at certain things, they're only good at certain things. Like Ricky Pearsall is a really good player, but you want him running certain routes. Joanne Jennings was the same way. Kendrick Bourne has been the same way for them at certain points. Like, it's all very specific. Mike Evans, I think, does everything that you got out of Joanne Jennings. Like, he can be your slant runner. He can be your deep dig runner if you want him to. He can win some of you're just like, we want to throw a goal line fade to a guy sort of thing. But now he can actually be a vertical presence in the way that this offense has not really had outside the numbers in a long

time. And I don't even... Different than that, right? Like, Ayyuk was a viable threat outside of the numbers, but is a different sort of player with a different sort of skill set than what Mike Evans is bringing to you. 100%. He was like a speed slash, like, maybe he just like burns past the guy one time, whereas Mike Evans is more of like, and I think this actually fits Brock Pretty skill set better.

Brock Pretty is not that good of a deep throw. He does it more often than Jimmy Garoppolo did, which I think does. unlock something in the offense, like there is something to simply making defenses respect it. But because I think sometimes he struggles to drive the ball a little bit and sometimes leaves up some floaters, well, how do you still make that work? You go and get Mike Evans, who if the ball is down there, 40 yards down the field, he's going to go find it or he can go up for it. And I do think that this just allows them to get a little bit more spread out because I think Shanahan's system has always been a little bit more condensed. You know, that's Shanahan, McVeigh,

Kubiak, we just mentioned. They've always been more condensed. But I do, think having an ex-receiver like this allows you to be a little bit more multiple and not always feel like you have to play inside to out in the way that they have recently. I think having a guy like Mike Evans allows you to play a little bit more outside to end if they want to. I'm sure there's an example at some point. I mean, obviously, if you want to go back a decade to when he wasn't the head coach, Julio Jones, maybe. But it just feels like it's been a while since the Niners had a presence like this in their offense. The offense was different.

Like the offense just changed and like what they were trying to do changed where it was more about creating space. It was more about the collective rather than the individual pieces, right? Like they would create all of this space and then the players were so good that they were really good at manipulating and like attacking matchups within that space. But there wasn't just a we're going to stick you out here and like the player is truly what's driving it. So that makes sense?

The players are so good, but like, the way that they created space, they created space so the players could dominate. Mike Evans is, you don't need space. There's no, that is not his currency that he's working in in the way it was, even for a guy like Kittle, where like Kittles' best trait is what he's doing when you can get him the ball with these yak opportunities and he can rumble. And so trying to find a player where space is not their currency

is not what this offense has been for a little while, but that is what Mike. Evans is. Exactly. And like, I think because the offense has become a little bit more pure pass, pure drop back, a little bit more gun, having a guy like Mike Evans, who again allows you to open up the formation a little bit and kind of do have a little bit more of a deeper dropback game and open up some space for them. I think, again, that is, you know, four or five years ago, it was like you said, it was more of us, we're trying to slash into these hook zones. We're trying to like create yak opportunities over the middle. The offense still does do that, but they are

more of a open everything up four and five out in the progression one two three four five well now if you have a serious legitimate threat on the outside playing x that opens up a bunch of stuff but it also i think opens them up to like this was an offense that to me at least it felt like anecdotally a lot of two by two stuff and then like having christian mcalfrey sit over the middle run option routes and all that stuff it was a very like even across the board offense well now if you have mike evans you can run a little bit more like overloaded to one side stuff and just go let mike evans hang out over there side and take a lot of gravity and really, I think, steal the show over on that side of the field. So the Niners last year per next gen, 41 and a half percent trips, which was the fourth lowest rate in the entire league.

That checks out. That checks out. And like, and like that I even actually, you know, obviously went back and watched a little bit of Mike Evans before this. he was not healthy for a lot of last year so I started with week one against the Falcons but with seven minutes to go in the second quarter, Mike Evans was all alone to the boundary on the left hand side and they shift the tight end over to the right and they get in this tight trips bunch

which is like again that's not a lot of what the Niners did. Mike Evans just runs this like deep up and out route against like a two invert look and so the safety who was rolling down to play the hook to his side he gets he flies down so fast gets so out wide and is like peaking

at Mike Evans, like he's paying him so much respect that when they run the deep over route back into where he should be, he can't get there in time. Baker Mayfield throws a touchdown to a mecca and so those are the plays where like Mike Evans isn't making the play, but you have to respect a player like Mike Evans so much that it allows other people to get open. I also just think it's a great example and you watch what they were at the end of last season and I almost appreciate when a problem is so clear and obvious that there's only one way to solve it. And when You were watching those last two Niners games against the Seahawks. It was just like, well, we all know what's going on here.

Like, if you can't throw the ball with any credibility vertically outside the numbers, a defense that is as talented and as well coach of Seattle's is, are just going to put the clamps on you and it's going to be over. And that's exactly what those games felt like. And so is there a world where Mike Evans is two steps too far over the hill, is too banged up to have the sort of impact we'd like to see? Yes, obviously. but in the perfect world

you see the vision you understand why a guy like this is necessary to the Niners kind of breaking out of that very small box that they had to play in last year especially as more guys got hurt I'll take it a step further too Mike Evans needs to be that guy

for them to be the team they want to be this year but going out and getting scribbling when they did you're trying to like kind of double down on it I think the hope is probably he's giving you some of the dirty work to Juan Jennings stuff in year one but he's got more giddy up than Joanne Jennings did. And so hopefully you have two guys that can start to stretch you a little bit vertically

outside the numbers where last year, especially by the end of the season, you had zero. It's just exciting to think of, like, you can picture 49ers football in your mind. And it's great and terrifying at its best, but it just has the potential to look completely different this year with some of the additions. I'm ready to get hurt again, baby. I choose to believe. I'm already there. All right.

Let's take our first quick break and then come back with another set of these guys. Hi, David. Who's number two on your list for your scheme change all stars for 2026? I'll be honest. I worked backward from a scheme that I'm just excited to watch. And I think we all are because I said, you know, I didn't want to pick any chargers, but I still wound up picking a hipster darling choice in terms of being excited about schemes for this coming year. It was hard to, not hard, but I had to think about who I wanted to identify and his new rookie teammate is,

leading up a lot of the oxygen right now. But I went with Jalen Thompson, who is, again, think about what happened when Christian Parker got to Dallas, who they identified. The Cowboys don't even like to spend money in free agency, but the first guy they identified. And one of the first guys outside of their typical spending threshold in recent history is Jalen Thompson coming over from Arizona for, I think it was $33 million a year and pretty hefty contract. $33 million a year. $13 million a year. He wishes it was $33 million a year. Ronnie Lott, man.

$11 million a year for Jalen Thompson, which is a sizable contract. That is a healthy safety contract for a player on his third deal. I mean, his first deal, I think he, the second contract he got, he got early and he was a young player. And so it's not third contract in the way that we typically think about it, but he's still a third contract guy getting $11 million a year. I love the idea of Christian Parker IDing this guy. as somebody who can help him implement his scheme and then also winding up with Caleb Downs in the draft like two months later.

And that was probably the pie in the sky idea when the offseason started. And then you get it and you get Caleb Downs and I assume he's going to play a lot of nickel early on as a rookie. But that's the fun part about this is the Cowboys now have one of the more versatile secondaries in the, at least,

in the NFC, if not the entire NFL, just with what those two guys can bring to the table. Obviously, that's assuming downs is who we think he is. But Jalen Thompson's been doing this stuff forever. I mean, last year, he played 40% of his snaps at free safety, 25% in the slot, and 33% in the box. So, I mean, do with that what you will. Like, this is a guy who can play everywhere you want him to. I doubt you'll see him out wide a whole lot. but if you want to get goofy with it,

I bet he could probably moonlight there in small sample sizes. And so I think he's going to be a big piece of implementing what Christian Parker wants to do. And I think the Cowboys secondary is just between him and Downs going to be very nebulous and I can't wait to watch it. The only reason I didn't think of somebody like him is that even though the scheme is very different, right? Like when you watch the Cardinals and then you watch the Eagles from last year,

those are very different defenses in a lot of ways. but for the safety specifically, Derek, and a lot of the two safety looks, they do it differently. I'm looking at the numbers right now. Cardinals played 30 and a half percent quarters last year, which was the highest rate in the league and almost double the league average, and about five and a half percent cover six.

The Eagles actually played a way less quarters than you might think. They played at a below average rate. It was 15 percent, but then they played 21 percent cover six. And so what you're asking of the safeties, playing a quarter safety, the Eagles and the Cardinals from last year were both at 36 percent. And so I think that even if it's going to look different, like the aesthetics of it look very different, what Jalen Thompson is going to be asked to do is actually pretty similar.

And he's very, very good at that. And so for me, he's probably more of a lynchpin players that could swing these units either way than somebody like this. But I understand why. That's a valid point. That's why he wasn't on my radar. But I do think he's absolutely worth mentioning in something like this. I think, like I said, for me, it's the scheme. And like you you settle on a player after the fact.

Like I said, I reverse engineered this. But I do think, again, this was this was the guy Christian Parker targeted when he got here or got there. And I think that speaks volumes to what they think about what he can do for them. And even if the assignments are similar to what he was doing in Arizona, it's just going to be a crucial part of what I think is one of the more exciting scheme. changes in the league. I 100% agree. I mean, like, it's just the, when the Cowboys secondary in each of the last, under each of the last two coaching staffs was frustrating to watch for different reasons, right?

When they were under Dan Quinn, when you're playing all that man, there, it's a lot of feast or famine. They're easy to pick on because you know what they're going to be in. And so that was the frustrating element of watching it. And then you transition to Iber Fluse and the frustrating element of watching it is, there's an absurd, obnoxious amount of error in the coverage every single time. I'm watching this team. And the guys who are foundational expensive pieces

aren't comfortable playing this way. And we barely got to see those guys last year. And so going from those two iterations of the Cowboys Secondary, even one that had played well under Quinn, to one where watching a cohesive zone-based Cowboys defense, which I think they absolutely could be this year, Derek, is going to be a pretty big transition

from the types of teams we've watched in Dallas over the last five or six years, even when the defenses were good. It's going to be way different. Yeah, because when they were good under Dan Quinn, it was a lot of just like player driven, the pass rush is great. We're going to play man coverage and that was it,

whereas this is much more of like a Rolodex type of system like doing all the too high stuff. I think this is like because the name of the episode is scheme change all stars, I think Jalen Thompson is a fantastic pick because even if he was good in Arizona and is going to be asked to do a lot of similar things, I don't think that many people like,

like the general. football public is like, man, Jalen Thompson is like an all-star. But I do think if this defense becomes like- Arizona Cardinals are pumping out superstar level talent in terms of name-net recognition. It's, it's Buda Baker and some dudes for the most part. You think most casual NFL fans are really clocking in for Buddha Baker every single Sunday?

It says more about you than them, buddy. Well, no. Did you know that Buda Baker has made a Pro Bowl in eight of nine of his NFL seasons? I do think the people know about Buda Baker. That did surprise me. I don't think I would have guessed it was eight of nine, but Buddha's been the man for. a long time. He's got good counting stats too.

He fills up the box score because about his use, which I think is helpful. Because his role is like, you are going to make the tackle one way or another. It almost, there's, there are similarities to it between being like a really high volume, but inefficient score in the NBA.

Like, like, there's value to it. But there's kind of what Buddha's role was for the Cardinals defense. Buda Baker has Jamal Crawford. Yeah, yeah. The Joe McArthur's coming off the bench. I'm more thinking about, I'm trying not to besmirch anybody. Brandon Williams. Wasn't Russell Westbrook?

Like, yeah. This would be. Monte Ellis. Oh, Monta Ellis, the original, the pre-Stef warrior. I would have to look. I'd have to take a deeper look at this, but is Jalen Thompson the most impactful free agent changing teams this year who's never been to a Pro Bowl? It's a great question.

Never been to a, man, yeah, I guess I would have to scour like who are they guys who didn't do it. But off the top of my head, it feels like a great answer. Has Jaylen Soap's ever made a Pro Bowl? surely he has right i don't know there's a chance he has not he has not wow jesus christ i would guarantee you he's the first

30 million dollar a year player in the NFL that's never made a pro bowl you know what man we just we just need to lay the pro bowl to rest as a designator of anything he's been hurt all the time yeah it actually is not that surprising he hasn't made a pro bowl i mean that contract is mostly based on potential but yeah so i i understand your point is well made and i do think that Jalen Thompson is going to be a very impactful guy that is flown a little bit under the radar. All right, let's move on from former Cardinals and go to current Cardinals. This is the only like headline grabbing guy among my group. I'm going with Marvin Harrison Jr. Okay. I would love

to hear the case because he feels a little bit of a different player to me than J.S.N. So I, or I guess it's like it's not the same offense, but it's in the similar bucket, which is why I was kind of went there. I just think the, I think some of the best things I went back and I was watching it today. And this isn't even a criticism, okay, in terms of the Cardinals' offense. The Cardinals' offense is old school. And Drew Petzing, I think it's important to remember that Drew Petzing is, I mean, he worked with Kevin Cefansky for a very long time and that Minnesota staff under

Kevin Cefansky, Cepansky was there for like 15 years in Minnesota. It's a very weird career where he stayed in one spot for a very long time and just cycled through different offensive systems and was a assistant within those offensive systems. And so if you talk to Drew about like where his football DNA comes from, it's a lot of like Norv Turner stuff. Like it's old school NFL stuff. And then you go back and you watch the Cardinals over the last couple of years. It's old school, man. You got a big old ex receiver out there and you're going to throw him some one-on-one opportunities and he's going to feast, he's going to sink or swim. That was a lot of the offense. And again, it's not even a criticism. But when you look at what

they were doing in Arizona last year, and you project what it might look like under Michael Floor coming from L.A. I want to read you guys a couple numbers because they were just staggering to me when I looked at them. So last year, the Arizona car, the Los Angeles Rams per next gen, through 133 passes to a receiver who was in motion at the snap. 133. That was the most in the league. If the Rams did it 133 times, how many times do you think the Cardinals did it? You're going to tell me like 18. 17, yeah. 18 is exactly right.

That is exactly the right answer. That's incredible. 133 to 18. And it's just one number to illustrate is how different these offenses were. A couple others that stick out. 28% spread looks for the Cardinals last year per next gen, third highest rate in the league. They were in condensed that's 30.6% of the time. 28% spread for the Cardinals, 7.3 for the ramps, which is the second lowest in the league.

So the condensed splits, the motion, how guys are being used, the specificity of the roles. Obviously, Devante Adams, who's used more of a traditional X within the Rams offense, but that says more about Devante Adams than the way the Rams want to play. With other guys, the lines are more blurred. Like, Pooka's doing a little bit of everything, and I think that's by design. Like, he's off the line of scrimmage. He's on the line of scrimmage. He's running a really full route tree doing a bunch of different sorts of things.

And in my opinion, I think the best. stuff that Marvin Harrison, Jr. has done over the last couple years is when you're allowing him to run some of those in-breaking routes in the intermediate area of the field. And I think on two fronts, we just didn't see him be that impactful on those plays. One is because they didn't ask him to do it all the time within that offense because he was doing a lot of isolation stuff on the outside. And two, he's got a tiny little quarterback who's not throwing those routes. He, last year, 168 snaps or dropbacks with Jacoby Percette. That was it. And you saw some of it.

He catches a big in against the Cowboys, against the Bucks. He has another one over the middle of the field. And so Berset was more willing to throw those routes than Kyler was. And I think you got a little bit of a glimpse of, all right, in this sort of, with this sort of usage in this area of the field, what could Marvin Harrison Jr. be?

And I think in this offense, Derek, he's going to get every opportunity to attack in those areas in ways he just didn't always under the previous staff in Arizona. I mean, that's what I'm hoping that they, Yeah, start to tap into it. Because like Mike Lafleur has been around, I think too. I know he wasn't there for the Super Bowl year.

He actually came, I think a couple years after the first ramp Super Bowl year. I mean, in 2021 with Stafford. He was there the following year because O'Connell got the O'C, O'Connell got the job in Minnesota after the Super Bowl and that's when LaFleur got there in 2020. This was when Lefleur was with God bless him, the New York Jets and Zach Wilson. But he's obviously familiar with a lot of the stuff that McVeigh was doing. And obviously during that McVay time, during the 2020 and 2020 Rams, or 2021, it was O'Dell Beckham, was like their true ex-receiver running a lot of these in-breaking routes and they were using him on that. I know that O'Dell Beckham and Marvin Harrison Jr. on the surface feel like very different players. And obviously, I think OBJ at his peak was. But I think at that stage in his career, that is the style of receiver that he was. And I think that that has been the best stuff that Marvin Harrison has done. So you make the point that to it, it really is about the quarterbacks. Like, it's not even just that.

I think the thing with short quarterbacks like Kyler Murray, it's not just that they struggle to see the middle of the field more and it's a little bit unclear for them. Think about the launch points. Because they are smaller and shorter, the ball has like a higher tendency if you're throwing directly over the middle to kind of float on you and like go a little bit high if you miss. And if you miss high,

you're throwing straight to a center fielding safety. Whereas a guy like Peret who's much taller and can like drive down on the ball, those middle of the field throws aren't as scary. And so I think that's why he's able to access. that in a way that Kylerbury just really wasn't for him. I'm with you. And I think that there are multiple different levels where this can look a lot different

from Marvin Harrison Jr. I'm still a little bit of a candlelit for like what year three Marvin Harrison Jr. in a drastically different role can be like. One thing, Liam Cohen was the Rams offensive coordinator in 2022. I have for many reasons memory hold the 2022 Los Angeles Rams season. I've got a Liam going on up next, actually,

if you want to jump right into it. I've got Chris Rodriguez. the running back, signing over from, obviously from Washington. This one is, so him and Cohen were actually together at Kentucky in 2021. And Chris Rodriguez had a 1,400-yard rushing season in college. And it was the best year of his career. He had actually come back the following year for a senior season, only ran for like 900 yards. It was still a fine season.

He got drafted, all that stuff. But clearly did a lot of work in Cohen's offense as like that a lot of outside zone sort of running. Like he was just a perfect fit for it. so much you going back to college to fortify this take. I really do. Those Liam Cohen, Kentucky teams are the reason that Will Levis was the top 40 pick. Got it got a quarterback drafted into the top 40. Exactly. And a lot of that was because Levis was able to get into a lot of favorable down in distances. They ran the ball well and they were able to throw play action. And I think Rodriguez was a huge part of that. And so I think last year,

there are some factors of like why the Washington run game works. Like obviously they involved the quarterback a lot and it's a lot of spread looks and all that stuff. And Rodriguez wasn't necessarily like a bell cow for them. But last year alone, Rodriguez had a 45.5% success rate according to NFL Pro. That was the ninth best in the league between Dandre Swift, who was playing for Ben Johnson's Bears and Jalen Warren, who had like a really, really good season. And then according to True Media, he only had a 13.4% stuff rate last year, which is either getting hit at or behind or tackled at or behind the line scrimmage, which was 11th best

right behind the two Rams running backs. Like he is, I think, brings a level of safety and just like getting five yards when five yards is blocked that they just absolutely did not have last year. This is such a great thing to bring up. Stability is the word. It just makes the offense feel so much more stable down to down. And that we've talked about this.

And this is another case of, all right, where did you really need something based on where your flaws were last year? And when we were talking about the Jags Off. I don't know, three or four weeks ago when we were doing the lingering questions, the thing we came back to is you look at the run game consistency and success rates and just the engine of the offense in the back half

of the last year. It was horrific. And so going out and getting somebody like this, like Derek is saying, where it's like, I just need you to get four yards on this play. I just need to be in second and six way more than I was last year. I think that's the proposition that you're hopefully betting on a guy like Chris Rodriguez.

I don't have it in front of me, but Cohen was quoted. We might have talked about that. that on the lingering questions episode, he was quoted during training camp about talking about guys who he can count on to get those yards. Where, like, I just need to be able to rely on you to get what's there. I think also, but the Jags also were lacking in explosive runs,

if I remember this correctly. They actually, they didn't have many. Yeah. That's the problem is that, like, when you think of A-chan in your mind, you think about, like, those, like, slashing, like, outside runs where he is getting, getting some explosives and that also wasn't happening.

So if you're not consistent down-down and you're not getting explosive runs, what do we do in here? Well, maybe that's for Basial Tutin to figure out. Like, that's his job is to get the explosives. I feel so bad for every single fantasy player that is going to be talking themselves into the monster Basial Tutin season. And Chris Rodriguez is getting 18 carries a game for the Jags offense. It's going to be a really tough life. Easiest fade, I remember, since year two, Zach Stacey.

Bachel two years, I think so? Yeah. easy paid. And because I think the thing is like all the running backs have a role. Like Tutin is your, we want to be explosive. We can throw the ball to him sort of back. Rodriguez is your masher. We're running him on like early downs.

We're using him in the red zone down near the goal line, all that stuff. And then LeQuint Allen is like a fantastic third down and blocking back in a way that like Rodriguez is a fine pass blocker, but doesn't really give you anything as a pass catcher. And that's probably the reason they don't want to use him there. But I just really think purely as a runner, he's perfect for what they want to do. like Dave was saying, he was like, Cohen said, we need someone who can just do this. Well, he knows Rodriguez could do it because he, like, he already coached him. So there's a familiarity there.

And I just think when you watch him, like, he really is such a patient runner and has that very good, like, lateral explosive ability. He actually runs a lot like Zach Charbonnet with the, like with the Seahawks last year. I think they're very similar players. And to that end, the one, the last thing I wanted to point out, the commanders last year had 30 snaps of under center outside zone. I think according to SIS is where I looked this up. The Jaguars had 109, which I think that is the style of runner that you want Chris Rodriguez to be. So he's now going to a scheme that fits, I think, what he does really, really well. I just, it's a theme for the show, but this is the perfect show to highlight it on, but the Jags famously did nothing to their offense.

Like they lost H& to the Saints. And then other than their draft picks, it's just Chris Rodriguez. but when your only addition is to give $10 million to a backup running back that the head coach has a history with, that should send you a pretty clear signal. It reminds me, I have Chris Nolan on the brain because I just saw The Odyssey, but it reminds me of like directors who just want to work with the actors they like over and over again, which I will say in the case, like Chris Nolan, awesome, dude, like you make good movies, keep working with the same people, but it can be a double, where you're like, you know, you can step outside of your comfort zone,

Liam Cohen. Like, if this doesn't go well, maybe that'll be a criticism. But I think that's the whole point of this is that, like, you have the, I feel weird about, I have hesitance about touching the hot stove with Beasel Tootin. Like you have, and then the whole point of Chris Rodriguez is that like, it's a comfy link. Yeah. Exactly.

And so I love the fact that some people have spent and will continue to spend over the next month and a half, just countless hours words, trying to figure out who that. the guy is in the Jags backfield and Derek is like fetishizing the idea that like they all have these specific roles and the synergy is just making him so happy like the look on your face right now at the horror of everybody trying to figure out who the guy is going to be among that trio is very telling yeah it's going to be like a I don't know 40% 30% you know 30% sort of split in terms of the touches and the playing time it's all going to be very different our hives over there all right let's take one more quick break and then come back and

a few more of these guys. All right, Dave, who's your next one? Not exactly an under the radar name given that he's one of the better defenders of the last decade, but potentially a new role for him in a new defense, which is what's interesting to me.

And it's been on my mind since we did the last lingering questions episode when we talked about Patrick Graham. And I'm dying to know what Patrick Graham does with Jalen Ramsey and what that might look like. And it's all very cloak and dagger right now.

I don't know the answer. But I was curious. There's a lot, you know, I think Patrick Graham did say during Steelers offseason that during their mini camp and their OTAs and whatnot, that they have like a Charles Woodson sort of role in mind for Jalen Ramsey, which great. Well, Charles, Charles Woodson made that transition from corner to safety as well as anybody's ever done. But what does that look like for Jalen Ramsey? I mean, he did transition to free safety halfway through last year, but what does that look like moving forward into 2026? I mean, they added Jahan Dotson. They have Deshawn Elliott there.

And there's a lot of theorizing going around that Jalen Ramsey might be the Steelers full-time nickel this year or at least play a lot of his snaps in the nickel. And I think that could make a lot of sense for a guy with his physicality, his willingness in the run game at this stage in his career. We joked about it on that episode, Robert. Patrick Graham was pretty clearly just running what Pete Carroll wanted to run last year. And they didn't have a nickel last year. Exactly. They ran base like 57% of the time. They were top three in the league in base percentage.

But in the three years prior to Pete Carroll's arrival in Vegas, they ran nickel 67% of the time. They were, I mean, 11th most in the league. They ran nickel 82% of the time in 2023 when they had Nate Hobbs and Trevon Merig there. Like, so Patrick Graham's history suggests that this Steelers defense is going to look a certain way. And I would love to see what Jalen Ramsey could look like in a role like that, particularly with his size and his physicality. What do you think about where Jailen Ramsey should play this year, Derek, and among that group? I mean, I think it, I honestly don't know because I do think last year it felt like when they moved him, it was a little bit more of like convenience. like they had just kind of found a new nickel toward the end of the season.

Their back end play was so bad that they just moved him. And so they were also injured as hell when they did that last year. It was like he, the value in having a Jalen Ramsey is that you can just move him where you need him. And I do think that they ended up doing that. I don't know where it's going to shake out this year. I do. I will, what I will say is that I think playing him exclusively at the nickel could be very interesting, given the rest of the cornerback room that they have.

When you have Joey Porter Jr., who is one of the best press corner covered guys in the league, you have Jamel Dean who is also a really good press corner and I actually almost brought up for this exercise kind of for this reason and then you would have Jalen Ransey who is like a bigger body nickel potentially I do think that gives you like a unique size and physicality matchup on like you know directly at the line of scrimmage and I do think that that goes back to a little bit of what we talked about with Patrick Graham if you look early in his Raiders tenure it was a lot more cover zero it was a lot more man it was a lot more like trying to get hands on people than it obviously was last year and so I I wonder if he sees that collection of bodies that he has now and says maybe that's something I want to do a little bit more of. And Jimon Ramsey is, I mean, outside corner is really the only thing. It's probably off the table because how does he's doing Porter Jr. and Jamal Dean. I mean, I think it's pretty easy to imagine a world where when they're in base, he's playing safety.

When they're in nickel, he's playing nickel. If you look at the other guys they have, I think that makes the most sense. And I enjoyed the Brandon Eccles experience in the back half of last year. Like, he had a lot of really fun moments when thrust into that nickel role. like the James Pierre Brandon Eccles duo was actually pretty fun in the back half of last season. I could understand wanting to roll with Jalen Ramsey as the full-time player in that spot.

And honestly, I think some of the best stuff Eccles did was as a blitzer last year. And so if you want to play a little bit more dime on later downs or in certain situations and get those linebackers off the field and coverage situations and have Brandon Eccles as like a viable blitzer in that role, like I actually do think that's a fun version of these players in this defense. that actually really is because Ramsey can just be like your dying backer like he actually does survive

he's because I mean so much of why the Seahawks were able to do it is because Eminwari has that sort of size and Ramsey is built I don't know if they're one for one in terms of size but like it's probably pretty close in terms of the way those guys are built yeah I mean that's the thing about Joe and Ramsey is that he came into the league built like a big nickel or a 60 he's just such a physical freak that he was an all pro corner on the outside at that size for most of his career I think this is a great answer because I I don't know what exactly what they want to do with him, but this probably is one of the most curious and, like, interesting, like, position changes for a guy potentially. It's definitely a guess. I mean, they're understandably so, not trying to give trade secrets away before they have to,

but it makes sense based on what they've done with their personnel this off season. And I just think it would be a really fun storyline if soon to be 32-year-old Jalen Ramsey helped the Steelers ride the big nickel wave. Yeah, he's built for it, literally and figuratively. He's built for it. My last one here, I got a couple more, but this is like the last main one that I had. This is the deepest cut that I have.

Even probably deeper than Jack Besh. I'm going with Logan Hall. You were big on this when he signed in Houston. You were very excited about this. I just think this to me is like the purest expression of the exercise that we're doing here. When you look at what the Bucks defense was and what the Texans defense was

and why somebody like Logan Hall can be, a guy who outperforms a 6.9 million a year AAV contract as a third rotational interior defensive alignment, the scheme change is a big part of that. I was going back and looking at it today and looking at the amount of snaps that Logan Hall played as a three technique or further in for the bucks last year. It's only like 125 past rush snaps. His numbers on those are terrible. When you look at the pressure rate and there's no, there isn't even outside of just eye test and projecting forward him getting more opportunities in a very specific sort of

role. There isn't a lot of other empirical evidence that's pushing me to this. Like there isn't a underlying pressure rates that or anything like that where I'm like, if you change his role, it'll be better. It's simply because I think when you saw him have a chance to just be a three technique, we're going to let you just pin your ears back and go, you see the potential. He just didn't get to do that. Like, he almost never got to do that. He's either, if you look at the snaps, he spent more time as a five technique at like three, four defensive end or an edge

player than he did as a defensive tackle last year. If you just look at the wrong numbers. And even when he was in those roles, Derek, we've talked about this a lot. When you're in that sort of blitzing scheme, you just don't get that many opportunities to be like, this is your gap. I want you to beat the guard around his outside shoulder. There are so many plays where he's having to balance the rush because the blitz is coming from the other side or it's a sim pressure. And so he's having to jump a gap over or it's a game.

And so in theory, he's rushing the passer, but he's never even trying to get to the quarterback. And so it's not surprising necessarily to see his baseline underlying rate stats not look very good in those scenarios. But I think I saw enough flashes when he got the chance to do that where in this defense in Houston where it is truly, hey buddy, you pin your ears back and go. they're no more like we're figuring out like how you need to be a part of the larger rush plan here like just get after it i think logan hall could be an interesting player in a just get after a defense i love this one man like i logan player, Logan Hall is a player that I liked coming out of college. But yeah, it's just the Todd Bulls defense, it's not, because he's also not that big. He's like 290. Like he's not, he's not like big. I mean, it's exactly. He was small enough to play on the edge consistently. Yes, but they didn't like, like you said, they didn't let him pin his ears back. A lot of the other pass rushers in a Todd Bull style of defense, you are like a masher. You are like a masher or you are again, like you said, buying space for other pass rushers. They're blitzing a lot. And so a lot of their pass rush scheme is like we're trying to move. guys like a Logan Hall and maybe run them into a guard so that this backer that we're firing is free. Like he's not getting the opportunities like you said to just pin it back. But I do think that he hasn't. I think even against the run game, he's got a little bit of like able to like get

under guys and get across their face when he's slashing and stuff like that. And so I really do love this one. You're going from a defense that like more like three four playing base like really try to defend the run style of scheme, which like that's he can do it, but that's not really the best way to use him where now like you say you're going to a scheme where it's pedal to the metal baby like go and hit somebody we talked about this on the young talent show that derrick and i did earlier this week too not that houston is loaded with all stars on the interior but you're also you're just not asking a lot of logan hall just adding him to what's already there especially if you get something from kaden mcdonald and i'm always interested in buying low on a guy like that who just

needs to thrive with the snap count allotted to him. Like you're not asking Logan Hall to be a pillar of anything that you're doing. They quietly, not right. I mean, I think the Kate McDonald thing does remake their interior, but the moves they made on the interior has my antenna up a little bit. Because I do think that Tommy Togi, I played well for them last year. Sheldon Rank has played well for them last year. And now having two more guys as part of that rotation with Logan Hall being more of a,

it's just kind of an extension of what they've been before, while Cade McDonald is truly, like, the goal is, can this be a transformative player? Can they, can this make us feel different as a defense than we've felt in the past when we've been arguably the scariest defense in the league over a multi-year period? And so that group, like that group of four defense tackles with Rankins, Togi, I, Logan Hall, Cade McDonald. It's a group we don't often talk or think much about considering the star power everywhere else, but it's a collection of four players I am excited to watch in this scenario this season.

All right, Derek, who's your last? one here. I actually have the flip side of the Logan Hall thing. The Tampa Bay Bucks replaced Logan Hall with A Sean Robinson. And I think that that is a clear like we What are you getting ready to predict about the bucks in the coming week? Okay, listen, I, that roster's not bad. That roster's kind of good. I'm like ready to maybe buy in on like an 11 win buck season. And part of that is I do think so I think it's a couple of things. They've like definitely remade this room overall. They let Greg Gaines go, I believe. And then also let Logan Hall go. And Logan Hall, Greg Gaines is like 310-ish, but he's short.

He's like 6-1. And then Logan Hall is a little bit undersized. He's closer to like 290. Aishon Robinson is closer to 3-20. And then they also brought back Rikim Nunez Rochez, who was a bigger, like can-play-no sort of guy. So they have clearly rebuilt this front to be more of a run-stopping team. And I think that that is important for a couple of reasons. Like I think the Todd Bulls defense at its best in what they want to be is on first downs.

They want to be in base. They want to beat the shit out of you in the run game, get you into second and nine, and then he's going to do all the stuff that he wants to do in terms of bringing pressures. They couldn't do that as well as they wanted to last year. Last year of the Bucks, they were 12th in terms of run defense success rate on first down,

which isn't bad. Like they were at 67.5%. It's bad when you consider the resources devoted to stopping the run. Yes, given what they are trying to accomplish, that's not good enough. When you are playing with heavy boxes that are in single high more than any other team in the league on early downs, it's unacceptable to be 12th and run defense success rate.

Yes, and for reference, when they won the Super Bowl in 2020, when they were a good defense, that number was 73.1, which was the fourth best in the league. And so that is kind of the number that they want to get to. And I think 70% really is kind of the sweet zone for this. The Rams, the Broncos, the Texans, and the Browns were all above 70% last year. And then I'll round up for the Seattle Seahawks. They were 69.7%. And so I think the Bucks bringing in a guy like Ashon Robinson, who,

I don't think is still a dominant run defender. I think the way that he was maybe three or four years ago, but I think is hold space better than a guy that, like, Logan Hall did, and I think he's going to buy space for these backers. I do think that this is a pretty significant... They are trying to push things in the right direction here with a guy like Ashon Robinson, and so I think he is the type of player

that can really elevate this front again. A lot of big boys in there. And then you add Rubin Bain to the mix, too. It's like not even just the defense. Jeremiah Trotter or Josiah Trotter who's like 240 pound go and hit somebody backer. Like their front is very different. I hope he plays like Jeremiah. Derek,

this is very much like, there are two wolves inside of you thing with Derek where the idea of all of these guys like the plugger linebackers and this run stuffing group, he's going to love watching this team on early downs. And then when it's third and eight and no one understands what's happening behind them, he's going to start losing his mind. I'm just going to bet that Tykees Smith and Anton Winfield are coming down fast enough to close the windows. All right.

that is a good collection of guys to keep an eye on when we think about what the scheme changes could mean for certain players around the league. We got some headline grabbing guys. We got some under the radar guys. Good. Nice mix and variety of guys on this show. Really enjoyed this one. We've got a couple other fun shows coming for the rest of the week that I'm really looking forward to. I don't want to spoil either of them because some tenuous scheduling things.

But some stuff that I'm really looking forward to. Hope you guys are as well right before we get into. the teeth of training camp. For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you guys, listen. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe

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