The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Chiefs & Bucs advance to Super Bowl LV; what's next for Aaron Rodgers, the Bills & more in our Conference Championship recap

Episode Date: January 25, 2021

The Super Bowl is set! Patrick Mahomes returns to face Tom Brady in his 10th Super Bowl appearance. What happens next for the Bills following the loss, and do they have room to improve this offseason? What should we make of Aaron Rodgers postgame comments regarding his future with the Packers? The Athletic's Robert Mays and Nate Tice recap Championship Sunday on a new Athletic Football Show.Remember to subscribe to get all of The Athletic's content leading up to Super Bowl LV - theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good buddy, Nate Tyson, how you doing? Doing great. Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Bucks Chiefs. I mean, honestly, it can't get any better.

No matter what, it probably would have been a good lineup, but like this is pretty exciting. This is going to be awesome to watch. I cannot wait. And there's going to be a ton of stuff to talk about in the lead up to these games. But like you said, this final four, I think it was always going to be great. Let's start with the game that just ended here in the AFC. I think that this was the sort of game that we weren't sure how this was going to go

if the Bills could slow down the chiefs the same way did in the first time around. And I think in some ways, the Bills' defense played fine, especially in the first half, where they're making things hard and it didn't seem to matter. I tweeted in the second half as this thing was winding down, that it really felt like the Chiefs were the perfect versions of themselves tonight, especially offensively. where you tweeted one of those plays where it didn't matter if they got pressure on a blitz if it hit right. Mahomes always had an answer. It didn't matter if it seemed like they had stuff

kind of covered up underneath. Kelsey found space. You didn't even matter on that one play that Hill dropped in the first half that it was the perfect coverage and Trudevius White had outside leverage and it still doesn't matter. They're leverage erasers, their plan erasers, they're mistake erasers. And I just don't know what you can do to beat this team. right now in a 60 minute football game because of all the answers they can find. I'm sure there's a recipe, but I just don't know what the recipe is at this very moment. Yeah, that play that you're talking about to Tyreek that went off his hands. Like you said, it was Robert coverage, which, which dictates that the man defenders have outside leverage because there helps coming from the

inside. And he burns Tradavis White top three corner in the league right off the snap. So it's like, even when you have the right stuff called, nothing's happening. Just like this entire team's so in control. And it's like this was a minor play. But like in the four minute drill, there's a third and ten. Game was, it's pretty much done. But it just shows how in control the chiefs are and Patrick Mahomes is with this offense. It's third and ten.

And they shift the, they shift Kelsey. They run like a hard cadence. They shift them again. They move them over like one gap, hard cadence. And they shift them all the way to the opposite side, finally snap it. And it was like the whole point. play clock was getting run down and they run the ball to Williams and he goes for a first down. But why that play, like those, like, it just showed like this entire offense is just such a like,

they know exactly what they're trying to get done. It was last week on the fourth and one sprint out. They ran the play clock down. No one hesitated. It wasn't like anyone is worried. Anyone is just. It's amazing how calm they are in those high leverage moments. It's almost as if. It's almost as if when they get in those third and fourth and shorts or down near the goal line, they almost seem to revel in it. Because it's like now we can try this crazy shit that we've been planning all week and that we've been devising. They're almost so bored with the normal rhythms of a football game

that it seems like there's an excitement over these little tiny wrinkles they get to throw out there. I mean, there were so many plays. I mean, obviously the play I'm talking about with the pressure, I want to say it was Milano came untouched and grabbed him and he somehow got the ball off to Kelsey when Milano came off the right edge in the first. half. And then there was another play where I want to say it was a defensive back came untouched, or no, excuse me. It was Epinessa on the same drive came untouched off the left side and it just didn't even matter. Or the second window throw he hits a Kelsey where he pumps it and then he

anticipates Kelsey getting behind Edmonds in zone coverage and throws it like two seconds early. Again, I don't want to overstate this because everyone can lose. We just saw a fantastic performance at the Bucks defense put together against what had been the best offense in the NFL this. season and it just didn't seem to matter and that's kind of where we are and when was the last time this team lost a high stakes football game with everything on the line it was that game against tom brady two seasons ago where if we'd played another quarter they might have won that game and i just think that that's the place that they've reached right now when it really matters and when everything is at stake they just seem to have an answer to everything because if you're taking

away the stuff up top, if you're slowing that down, then you're like we talked about on Thursday's show, they're stretching the zones enough that the underneath stuff to Kelsey is going to be working. That's kind of what I was saying when I tweeted that they were perfect in that it all fits together. Kelsey is better because Hill exists. Hill is better because Kelsey exists. Mahomes unlocks everything. Just all of these things converging into this moment. And then you throw Andy Reed and Bienemy and the offensive staff into there. And then the other side of that that I actually wanted to really explore here is the big difference between that game against New England and that game tonight, where we've seen from the Chiefs over the last month or so,

going out and getting Steve Spagnow, I think, was kind of a transformative decision for this team. Because now you have a defense that perfectly complements the offense. They can take these chances over and over and over again because if they get caught that Russian roulette we were talking about on Thursday show, if that happens to the Chiefs, it doesn't matter because they just get the ball back. And I think that that understanding, that aggression just fuels both sides of this. And I think we saw that exact type of game plan from their defense tonight where they said, we are coming and coming and coming.

And we don't think that you have an answer for it. And that's exactly what their plan seemed to be tonight. We're honestly like D Ford being six inches off sides away from Patrick Mahomes going to three straight Super Bowls, which is, which is insane. And, you know, like they're always in control. that five-man pressure, they're in five-man protection as well. Mahomes makes the guy miss, you know, bobs and weaves on the guy, the guy runs right by him, and then he just throws, as he's getting tackled, he throws it just with his wrist, like a 15-yard dig route. And that just shows the difference between the Chiefs offense of Patrick Mahomes and like a typical offense against that look.

When you're in a five-man protection, the defense can make you throw hot. And I'm going to talk about this on the flip side, what Spags does to other teams. When you're in those empty looks or that five-man protection, you're trying to put strain to get the ball out. But if you have a trigger man that's on their stuff all the time and get the ball out like Mahomes does, the difference is there's a throw. I think I just tweeted about it. I just said Mahomes is effing stupid. Like this guy is just he's ridiculous. On a play like that where the quarterback knows he's going to be hot and the ball has to get out. That was the Milano pressure that I was talking about by the way. Just so people know. And the guy comes out the side. So it's the five man protection on that. He knows he's hot. Usually the quarterback's thrown a flat or a slant route there. Ball's getting out. That's a hot throw quote unquote or at least a warm throw. Mahomes pumps it. makes the guy miss, steps up, throws a dig, and it's just like,

so as opposed to a four yard gain and getting tackled, that's an 18-yard gain, first down, boom. That's the difference between how exceptional Mahomes is and a typical quarterback.

I would expect 95% of other quarterbacks to throw hot there. That is just what's taught. That's fine. That's a great answer. Mahomes doesn't. He's going for it to cash when he should be getting thrown hot.

Like it's just, that stuff is just crazy. And like all this stuff he does to Kelsey where not only just sprint outs, but just those extended plays against his own coverage. And like you said, the field they both have for that and for each other.

It's a mind mel. It's just otherworldly. That is not, that is so against fundamentals. I don't want to like sound with this. NFL, once they get to this level, it's more like you're giving these guys tools.

Like if the fundamentals aren't really what they're doing, like they're, they got to this point. They're fine. By the way, that's not a negative. The fact that it's not fundamentals is not a negative. They're riffing on these ideas.

And that's why they're rule breakers. And when they break the rules, that makes them so much harder to plan for, because even when you're right, you're wrong. And we saw that so often again tonight. Yeah. And it's, Kelsey's finding these spaces. And these should not be plus plays.

They should be throwaways. And they turn to be first downs. So it's not even going from a negative to an average play or an average and above average play. It's going from a negative play to a good play. It's like that if you just, it's, it's frustrating. I'm sure it's frustrating. Like on the flip side, like what I love about was Spags as a defense coordinator is,

One, once he hits the playoffs, Spaggs gets unlocked because he is a very game planee coach. He has a couple stuff that goes week to week, but he, week to week is going to change his blitz looks. He's going to change just a couple tweaks, you know, a couple of emphasis is like emphasize, is that the plural for it? But he just, you know, stuff cutting. And like today, tonight we saw a couple times where they're going like a too high look, but both guys are sprinted down to cut crossers. So like the bills try to run mesh, Josh Allen scrambled on one. There's a couple plays like that. But Spaggs gets unlocked.

And he is able to just go, hey, we got no tendencies that we have to worry about. We can empty the chamber every single game once they hit the playoffs. Because like usually when a defense face is empty, they have one, two, maybe three automatic checks versus empty unless they have something game playing against it. Spags is bringing heat on those. And as opposed to just going like, oh, we're going to we're going to like fake the pressure and drop everybody back and try cut something underneath like maybe the Patriots or the Dolphins do. Spaggs knows, no, I'm actually bringing cover zero against FD. And I am betting that I've taught my guys well enough that they know exactly what you're going to try to run and beat that. And he does it over and over and over and over.

He is putting so much pressure on the offense to be right that that's pretty fun. You don't say a lot of defensive coaches have the balls straight up to do that over and over. But it's again, Spags does it all time. Because he has the safety net. He has the safety net of the offense. It doesn't matter if he's wrong. And it allows you to play off each other. It's a good team.

It's a couple. It's a couple. That's what good teams do. Yes. And it allows them to play in game plans so freely. And that's what's so impressive. And even like, when you say, well, why didn't they have answers? Why didn't the bills have answers?

And we could talk about that in a second. But even a play in the first half, like the one that Singletary dropped, where it's exactly what we talked about coming into the game where him releasing on some of those pressure looks, there were going to be yards on the field for them. He drops that ball. And it becomes a drive-ending play. The margins for error are. are so, so small against this team.

If you make one, two, three mistakes, you can lose because every drive is so valuable. And that feeds into how they play. It feeds into the style of defense that they play. It all comes together and complements each other. It just starts to build and build and build. And that's what this team is. And that's why it's so fun to watch. They're creating chaos on both sides, but it's organized chaos.

what Tyron Matthew and what Honey Badger reads the game and just what he does and be able to ad lib stuff from a defensive perspective is it's pretty funny because, you know, Mahomes on a different scale. But it is funny is that they, yes, in structure, these guys are great players, but then out of structure, these guys become excellent transcendent players. And like even on the like interception Josh Allen had late, it was the art. It was a pinpole RPO. So the runs going to the right. they have a double slants by the receivers. On that, Josh Allen has to read the backside linebacker

because that's supposed to be a quote unquote unblockable guy. And that's what you're putting a strain on with that double slant RPO. The chiefs are in man coverage there. You're expecting that your guy's going to win. One of them's going to win on the outside. Chief's defenders, Bresha Brelund, is like draped over him. Just like what he was expecting this.

He made that. They were so physical, exactly what we expected them to be. Like you said, he beat up the small receiver. force out into double clutch and that's what happens with those RPO's. If that ball is not getting out quickly we've seen the Ravens

this happened to Ravens a little bit with Hulmar. There's no real break glass in case of emergency results for that if the RPO is covered especially against man coverage because it's basically the linemen are up the field.

I can't hand it off. I can't progress anymore. All right, well I either have to force that throw in or I have to start scrambling. On that play, there's the edge zone player out there. He's sitting there waiting for Allen to run. So Alan's like,

oh shoot, I'm going to, I'm going to knife this one in there. And guess what? Ball gets tipped up. Breland makes a great play. And then I can't remember who intercepted it, but he just runs it back. It's like, but those are the place the chief's defense are doing.

Not only are they aggressive. They're pressing. They're playing against these skill guys that the bills have. And they're not backing down. Not once. They're just like, no, we're taking it to them. We're going to take our lashes, but we don't care. We're going to just keep being aggressive.

Our offense has our back. We're down nine nothing. No one cares. They didn't stop blitzing. Offense didn't start just going for the throat. It's like this team is just a juggernaut. It's a weird juggernaut where it's not, they have stars like Mahomes and Chris Jones and stuff. But, you know, other, I mean, and Honey Badger.

But it's like, I don't know. It's a team of just aggression. And it's the whole team is about it. They dictate. They dictate on both sides of the ball the entire game. All the time. They're making you beat them. And that's, that's so much fun to watch is that it's truly not going like, we're playing not to lose.

They're like, no, they're always, every single snap they're playing to win. Not a lot of teams do that. It's fun to watch. In terms of protection and answers for the bills offensively, was there anything that you were surprised they didn't go to, whether it was more screens or different sort of slides or protection calls up front because their offensive line was having a harder time than we've seen them have pretty much this entire season since they coalesced with Feliciano there as that right guard spot

and that group kind of came together. I can't remember them looking this uncomfortable over the course of an entire game. What sort of stuff did you think they would go to that they didn't seem to find a groove with? Yeah, the groove, I thought the chiefs did a really good job of just stopping a lot of stuff underneath because in timing, like in rhythm of throws, stuff underneath. Usually when stuff would come, come later on the down when Allen is maybe reading stuff out and he finds like Beasley underneath or something like that. I thought the chiefs did a great job of just taking any aggression shots out of the play while being aggressive themselves. because they were able to do that because the pocket was like a two and a half second max pocket. And that just, again, it's tying in not just the team that ties in together how an offense plays and a defense plays.

The chiefs up front are being aggressive because they know in the back they're being aggressive. And they're trying to make Allen just make these plays right away and make a decision. I just thought I thought the bills would protect a little better. Chris Jones is a hell of a player. So he was creating a lot of Roder Rush just by himself up the middle. I just thought maybe a little more shots, a little more wad up the play action, you know, maybe like a true seven-step play action, you know, that we see out, hip slot or something like that, where you're making the defense feel unbalanced.

This defense wants to stay in too high and maneuver the safeties to do a lot of stuff out of balance the looks. I thought maybe there might be more some traditional stuff from the bills, maybe the classic over and post stuff to really, you know, you're fighting, you're fighting against a crazy defense. In poker, they talk about sometimes you're facing the aggressive player that's, coming at you. You have to be more conservative of yourself, kind of yang when that or Zig while they

zag. Sure. I think the same type of thing with here with the play calling is, hey, they want to be crazy. Let's get safer. And what's, what's just, you know, what's not going shock and what's going to your center, what's around seven step wadded up and just hit some big overshots. Seven man protections. Try to make sure that as long as they're playing like this, we aren't going to be sped up.

We're going to play at our pace as often as possible. Yes. Yes. We're going to be at our page. We're going to, hey, we got this. All right. You know, just like a basketball. You come across half court.

We got a cool play. We're going to run, you know, sliding doors, whatever they call them basketball. Okay, boom, we're going to hit it. We're going to hit the three-point jumper to the baseline. But we're getting the shot that we want to get off. We're not letting you dictate us to hurry a shot up and shoot a 15-foot or jump, 15-foot jumper that we don't want to shoot. We're going to get the play that we want to get off. And I think that's what I thought the bills would maybe just take a breath and go, okay, hey, let's calm down.

Let's get our stuff. I'm talking about both sides of my mouth because sometimes on offense, I always say, hey, no, you dictate the pace. on offense. But when you're playing a team like this, that just wants to keep throwing haymakers at you. Sometimes you got Bob and we even just jab them. They never caught their breath the entire game. It felt like. And that was the issue. They're out of rhythm. They're totally out of rhythm this whole game. And it's that happens. That's what Spags is trying to do. That's what the chiefs are built to do. They're trying to keep you off rhythm while they just keep going for your throat 40, 50 times a game. Offense defense. Well, I would say special teams, but that's surprising,

but you want to one of the lag points for the chiefs right now. Does this game make you think any differently about Josh Allen or do you feel like this is just a bump in the road and what has been you know a fairly not even fairly a really promising season and a really promising trajectory for both him and this franchise with the coordinator coming back I think this was a great learning experience for them I think I think I think they're going to learn so much from this game and they're going to be hungry they're already hungry I think the whole city is starving but I think that this is going to be such a great learning experience. We've already seen Josh Allen grow so much as a professional football player that I trust he's going to do that kind of that NBA player thing of having

an offseason that summer where he adds another tool to his tool belt because he keeps doing it. And that's pretty scary. But I think he's a hungry guy. It's going to be a hungry, hungrier team that can maybe continue to add to what they have. But I think it's going to be a great learning experience for, hey, maybe sometimes, you know, we're getting this. Like this is what the defense is trying to dictate us to a certain way. okay, how do I play within myself to create plays going from that point? I think so, too. And the coordinator coming back is a great thing to bring up.

And it's when people were asking me about the Browns the last couple weeks, I remember doing it a radio hit in Cleveland. And they were just like, what do you think? Do you think this can keep going? It's like, yeah, man. Like this is, they have the pieces in place that are things you can rely on. You know, this isn't a team that had the best defense in the NFL by far and caught lightning in a bottle. And it's going to be hard to replicate that.

there are some elements to their offense that I think are going to be hard to keep doing over and over again. They were extremely efficient. I think that they're going to need to be a different version of themselves the same way every offense is every year, which I want to touch on in a second with the chiefs. But for the most part, the core of this team is coming back. Feliciano and Darrell Williams are both free agents, but they have some money. They have a ton of wiggle room. They've done such a good job of building around Allen's rookie deal. If you look at it, their highest contract on the team next year is $14.3 million for

trayway. That's it. And then you get digs at 13.5. And that's what they've done. And they've done that consciously. If you talk to Brandon Bean, you talk to Brandon Bean about the ways they've built this roster in free agency, it's all spreading it out. No monster deals. And they've done that with a purpose. And I think it's given them flexibility. And I think it will again. You're going to bring back the entire skill position group. You'll figure it out on the line. Hopefully you can get one of those guys back, both of those guys back. And you'll have hopefully a little wiggle room. Right now they have 1.3 million in cap space working off an $80 million cap, or $180 million cap. But there are some moves here where they can get a little bit more flexibility.

So I have all the faith in the world that they're going to be just fine. This is a bump in the road in, again, what has been an extremely promising year. So talking about reinvention, I want to talk about the chiefs just for a quick second before we move on. I was talking to an offensive play caller last week. We were just talking about, there's just a lot of big picture stuff. and he brought up Andy Reid. And we were talking about reinvention and how, you know, even if you have a good season or a good two seasons,

the most important thing is understanding that you're going to have to be a little bit different when you come back. It's amazing to watch the Chiefs now. And you mentioned this earlier this week, watching like an old NFC championship game with Andy Reid and the Eagles and how different it looks. And to me, it's the Hardman end-around play. Because that's a Shanahan play.

They run that windback end around with the orb motion all the time with use check. And the chiefs just drop it in, filtered through the most explosive skill position group, probably in the history of the NFL. And that's why it's so fun to watch this team is that his ability to always be trying something new and always be pushing edges and always be exploring the best ways to unleash his guys is so incredibly fun. And I think it speaks to why they've been so good. And I think in some ways he needed these guys like Hill and Kelsey and Mahomes, the way we talk about them fitting all together. They're amused for him because of what the possibilities are. And I think watching that has always been cool. But it's also cool to watch a coach that truly understands that and is truly trying to get the most out of it at every single turn.

They use pre-snap motion or a shift on 82% of their snaps today, which is this highest rate. of the season for them. They're just constantly trying to find ways to get their players who already have an advantage and give them an even bigger advantage. And I just absolutely love it. It is so fun to watch a coach in that mindset and a coaching staff in that mindset.

And that's exactly where the chiefs are. And just the willingness to just be a slightly different. And like you said, he'll take some of the same concepts and run the same stuff year after year after year. but then he has his little tweaks every single here. But just even seeing what they've run in like the low red zone inside the five-yard line. Like a couple of years ago, they had a whole package for Don Terry Poe and running like the little screens to him.

And then now it's more of the shovel game and the front side sprint out stuff that they'll run with Mahomes. And they do all the motions and stuff with that. Kelsey had the touchdown late. And this is it speaks to the jet motion stuff and the strain that puts on the defense is on that play. They have a jet motion. you can see from the end zone view and Romo circled admins on this play but really watching that play it's the safeties, the bill's safetys on that play communicating. So it's like about the four yard line, jet motion happens.

Defenders are all trying to pass it off because what the chiefs do is they have an overrout from the receiver and it Kelsey ran a delayed crossing route. So when the over route goes with the jet motion going one way, over route going the other way, the defenders are going, okay, we have to pass this off because they have to split each direction. But then also there's Kelsey, you know, probably, you know, in that area of the field, the best player on the field trying to catch these touchdowns,

just waltzing over on the crossing route because it's just a simple strain that the chiefs are doing with putting speed. When you're in that tight space, especially inside the 10-yard line, five-yard line, little areas are you trying to attack? Because you get that by great design,

great timing, or quarterback, you know, being so quick with throwing the ball that the space stays open, just that a little bit longer. And on that play is they didn't need any of that because the design was so good with the jet motion splits the safeties. The crosser comes over. And then here comes just Kelsey, you know, who already caught like 15 balls up by that

point, just wandering on a delayed split because it's just all the design coming together. Heat, having a delayed block, making the safety's eyes go the opposite direction. And it's just a nice design. And then my home zone exactly what it needs to do. He buys that exercise second of time and just. But he's backing up. That's the fun. That's the craziest part about that.

It's like exactly what talking about. Every team would love to run these delayed crossing routes in certain areas of the field. And you'd love to run mesh every single time. You'd get man coverage because you know it's going to put you in a good spot. But you need this stuff to have time to develop. And the bills brought a pressure on that play. And he still somehow manages to back up as he's throwing just enough to give him the space to make that completion. And that's what they do all the time where you think,

oh, they're running this slow developing, man-beating crossing route down here. Let's bring a pressure into it. You do, and it still doesn't work. And I just can't imagine how frustrating that has to be as a defensive coach. Oh, yeah. There's so many quarterbacks that we watch and like, we're like, oh, they're scramblers or they're ad-libbing and it's them trying to find the open guy and they're doing some things. Mahomes, his pre-snap and post-nap IQ and spatial awareness is just off the charts because

he'll know where the pressure's coming, just by the, by scheme and everything. That's what his football IQ is. But then just the ability and the flexibility that he has to, he'll like move left away from pressures coming from the field. You know, he'll move towards the boundary backwards to buy himself that extra second and space of throw.

I call it the Madden drop because that's you inadvertently do that a lot of times. Yeah, exactly. Mess with the quarterback drops and you hold backwards. But that's what he's doing. He's doing the exact same things that guys have done with their joysticks, but he can actually do it in real life. That's what's ridiculous about. That should be a video game only shit or like a.

once a year kind of thing that quarterbacks do. He does it seven, eight, nine, ten times a game. And it just speaks to not only his ability, but just his mind. Like his football spatial awareness and IQ is just, I mean, it's two tiers above a lot of guys. It's ridiculous the stuff he is doing. It's what we're watching greatness. He's the best quarterback you've ever seen, right? Yes.

Yes. Yeah. I think it's becoming less and less close to me. I mean, Rogers is always. The Rogers arm talent and so many of the throws he could make. But an off platform too. You know, Rogers would make tons of throws while moving. But the moving backward in the pocket and the arm angle stuff and everything else,

I, you know, I, you don't trust me. People know how I feel about Aaron Rogers. I think that he's an all-time great player. And I think that we'll get into today and what it means and everything else. But you watch a game like today. And I just can't remember watching a quarterback with Asman. any answers, no matter what he's presented with, then Patrick Mahomes has on a consistent basis. It's every part of the field is attackable with him. Always, always, like even when he's on the

move, even when he's falling out of bounds, like every space is attackable, which is just crazy. He has no passing cone if we were going back to Madden. It doesn't exist. It's the whole field at all times. Everyone you're holding right trigger to use turbo with him. Yeah, the cone stays big. It's the entire feel the whole time. Like I've seen Peyton play live and Peyton was just a different beast. It was more just like, I had that feeling of inevitability. Like you're always watching him. You're like he's going to hit this throughout.

Yep, there it is. Okay, we got a blitz coming up. And he found the void. You know, like that. It was kind of more just like a drain. Mahomes is like, he like, you know, I mean, just slashes your gut. And you just bleed out. Like, like Manning was more like Peyton was more just like a couple cuts and the cuts would

just keep going throughout the game. Mahomes would just slash you and then lets you bleed out. and then he slashes you again, like even worse and it's deeper and deeper. Like it's, it's different. Like it's, it's so much different than anything I've seen. I've seen far play. Far was ridiculous, but it was, it's different. It's just different.

Mahomes is just special. Like it's, it's, I want people to appreciate what they're watching because it's, this is so much fun to watch just as a football fan. There's times where I'm glad I'm neutral because then I could just enjoy stuff like this. All right. Let's get to the NFC game. Let's start at the end because I think that that makes the most sense. How shocked were you when they trotted out the field goal team on fourth and

beyond shocked? I couldn't believe it. I actually. I said really out loud. I was in a professional setting and I said really out loud while it was happening. Could you can you even talk up there anymore? Like the press box? I mean, it's, I was, I think I was sitting next to Kaylin, Kailer from from police report.

And I was just like, I can't believe that they're kicking this field goal. And if you look at the numbers, so obviously, I mean, I'm sure everyone that's listening to watch the game. But so they're down eight and they are, there's about two minutes left. There's a little more than two minutes, which played into this, obviously. Fourth and eight after Rogers throws the incompletion on third down. And they trot the field goal team out. Lefleur came out afterward and explained that we had three timeouts. We were on the other side of the two minute warning.

We thought we'd get the ball back. If you look at the actual analytics associated with it, I think it's pretty close. but that's one of those moments where the gut feeling, I'm not giving Brady the ball back there. I want to be tied. I'm not needing a, you still need a touchdown and you are relying on stopping them and your defense hasn't been great all game.

I just don't like it. I much rather keep the ball in Rogers' hands there and see if I can score a touchdown and then pin them deep. If you don't score, you can still stop them again. You still need a touch. the same way you did before. That's why, if it was a field goal game, if you're cutting it to three, more power to you. But you still need to score a touchdown anyway.

And that's why I just didn't understand it at all. Well, you got to assume, too, is what are, okay, you get the ball back to the box after you kick that field goal. What does your defense do the worst? Run defense, right? Yeah. The bucks are going to be a run mode. It's having two guys that the, we make the jokes, but so true, especially today,

is the Packers defense has like two guys in the same gap. They're sloppy. And what's the worst? This is one of the things that we were talking about last week is one of the worst things that Packers could be in is being in base defense because they're just getting their guys more in space. It's just not the looks they want it. They want to be in dime defense as much as possible nickel defense as they can,

but they do not want to be in base defense, just what they run. You give the ball back to the bucks. You're putting your defense in their least advantageous unit, personnel grouping and play calls, run defense. Bucks, of course, passed the ball a couple times during that set, but it's, that's, ballsy choice, by the way. Pardon? Ballsy choice.

I mean, that throw, I mean, they, twice in that game, they were rewarded for throwing in situations where you'd expect teams to run or going for it. Going for it on fourth down at the end of the half, set up the Scotty Miller touchdown, which we'll get to, obviously. And then throwing, the Kevin King play, I guarantee, I'm Packers, are probably livid at the fact that that was pass interference, but it was pass interference. The disappointing part and why it's a tough call is when the game had been called a certain way the entire time and it was so physical on the back end, it sucks to lose on that play.

But you can't complain about it coming down to that play. You shouldn't have kicked the field goal. You shouldn't have given them the ball back. It's not one kind of questionable pass interference that ended up losing you that game. And then going back to the third down, I tweeted out a picture of it. So they were in man. The Packers were running their man beating stuff down to the goal line the way that they had when they scored the mess touchdown before, everything. They kept going back to that stuff.

Rogers had a lane. I don't think he scores because if you look at it, there are two guys on the left side. They're both sitting with the receiver there. So I think they wouldn't have committed to him initially because there was a receiver in that area. So I think he would probably gotten four or five yards, but he would have gotten tackled short of the goal line. But even you get four or five yards, then it's fourth and goal. from the three or fourth and goal from the four and then I think they go for it. So that's a bad decision, but for the most part, I think what he did on that drive was fine.

I think the buck's defense just played fantastic. And that's what I want to talk about because we're going to have a lot of conversations about fourth down decisions and Aaron Rogers' future and everything. We'll get to all that and pass interference calls whatever. The buck's defense won this game flat out. Yes. I mean, there is no other way to spin this. It's the varying looks.

they they kept Rogers off kilter the entire game like they just I've never seen I probably have though don't that's hyperbole but like seeing Rogers it's very weird because Rogers is a fantastic 1% or a pre-snap quarterback he does so much of his work pre-snap because he's so smart another guy that has football like he is off the charts post snap you know he prefers stuff to be one and done with his reads he doesn't truly like the crossfield stuff like I think that's just what he prefers he likes to operate one to two to two scramble you know that's just what he likes to do i'll add lib i'll do the bounce around stuff in the pocket the bucks kept making them guess wrong especially there's a there's a time about about four

to eight minute time maybe in the middle of the game where rogers was looking one way because he thought he had a throw and all of a sudden had to go coast to coast whenever you see a quarterback go coast to coast that's not like a pump and then trying to hit a seam or something that means you're getting i'm guessing that means he's like oh shit you know that's that's what he's doing he's going okay my bail out throwed i got to do that he did that at least four or five times that I can remember, just recall where Rogers had to throw like a checkdown late or something underneath late. That's not what his intent was in his mind pre-snap. And speaking of bowls and the defense, we're talking mesh sit, you know, version of mesh where the guys kind of settle on it and they do that against zone.

Because mesh, we typically think of it's like mesh is becoming the play of this podcast. But mesh, you know, typically. Teams are running it all over the place today. The Packers ran it like seven times. Sometimes. I know. And usually we think of it as a man-beater. But how the Packers was using it today, you saw,

the guys settle and we'll see that against zone. Tony did a great job of it in the touchdown. Oh yeah. And that could be the adjustment for it for teams running mesh. It's like, hey, man, do you run it because you're trying to beat the man coverage, zone, hey, settle down, find the soft spots. So I'll just call this version of it mesh sit. They ran a bunch of times, ran a bunch of times.

Then in the fourth quarter, Packers ran another one on a third down. Bucks adjusted. And they cut the crossers and Rogers had a double clutch and he took a sack and it was a third down. I want to say it's in the third quarter. And yeah it was adjusted. Yeah, he adjusted. But he adjusted.

And that shows good freaking coaching that they were like, hey, we are getting torched by this fucking play. Oh, I'm so sorry for swearing. But they're getting a torch on this fucking play. And they're like, no, this is what we're doing. You see that those guys crossing? This is what we're doing. You cut this safety. We'll take a chance on this with that safety coming down and nail on the crosser.

Because guess what, Rogers has hit it three times. He's not going to be looking for the post going over the top or something else because he has already hit those crossers or hits the settled route. And guess what? That's good adjusting. Coaching isn't just game planning. It's adjusting during the game. It's identifying those matchups over and over. You know who did identify matchups today was Tom Brady, Bruce Ariens, and Byron

Leftwich circling Kevin King on every single passing play. That's the NFL right there. That is identifying a matchup and just pounding it and spamming it until they stop it. And that's what you have to do. It's the playoffs. Who cares about stats? Just get those scores. The only stat that matters is.

one more point than the other team. So just keep spamming the same play over and over until they stop it. So we'll get to that. I want to talk about that mesh play, though, the sack, because it was third and five. Yeah. And it was after, I think, the third Brady interception. So it was when the game was close, they had just gotten the ball back. They had gone three and out on the previous drive.

So that drive, first down, they try to run a boot play vertical to Adams. Bucks brings corners off both sides, bring a pressure. Boot doesn't get time to develop. Rogers gets hit from behind as he's trying to go to Adams. Ball gets popped up in completion. Second down, they hit Williams in the flat because it was a pressure and he got it out quick. Bucks rally and tackle do a great job. Third down, they try to run mesh because the Bucks are playing so much man coverage late in that game.

So much of it. Really sticky, tight man coverage. But you can't, you want to say like, oh, they're playing all this man. Let's run our man beating stuff, right? But it wasn't having time to develop. can't, when you're running all these crossing routes, you need a little bit of time. The same way we're talking about with that Kelsey touchdown when Mahomes drifts back a little bit. The Bucks were getting so much pressure on that play, Barrett just beat Wagner inside, really

nice, like a little speed to power move, and they ran a stunt on the other side with Vea and JPP. They were doing that consistently because I think early in the game, they were bringing more pressure and they did it sporadically in smart moments, like that first down pressure. There's really good timing. That's not what you'd expect. but the couple of drive, the really long drive, Packers had that ended with the Devante slant. And even on the Devante slant, the Bucks brought pressure.

And they were, I think when they were blitzing that often in the second half, Rogers was doing a really good job getting the ball quick. And then later on those couple drives, especially on third down, they were bringing four and they were getting there. And they did that a lot today. They only brought blitzes on 28% of snaps. Rogers was pressured on 15 of his 53 dropbacks, and that's with how quickly he was getting the ball out. JPP and Barrett consistently, just making things happen one on one. JPP's first sack, really nice, like, Euro step cross chop where he just roasted Billy Turner. And then he goes back to a little counter off that and just goes straight long arm power for his second one.

Those guys up front and the guys on the back end and Todd Bowles pushing the right buttons, they won this game today, flat out. It was right before the slant to Devante where he just devastated ankles and their still there. But the play before that was another fantastic adjustment. You were just talking about the bootleg where they brought double corner cats on that. That was another adjustment Bulls made because the series before that, the Packers started calling a bunch of bootlegs. And the bootlegs, the run game wasn't really doing much. They had a couple of nice outside plays, but, you know, it's what we kind of expected. The Bucks. That wasn't the first half, though. They didn't run the ball at all in the second half. No, they didn't. I think they only had like 16 carries or something

like that. I don't have it right in front of me. But they also weren't on the field that much. But I don't, that's not a, that's not a, uh, criticism by the way. Because again, oh, no, it was it? You have third and five, you have third and five and you just get sacked. I don't think that they were, they went away from the run when they should have been running the ball. Oh, no, I was speaking to, I'm more credited. Oh, I'm talking about other people criticizing them from running the ball. Oh, yeah, but oh, no, no, that's, that's fine. I mean, you got freaking Aaron Rogers right now.

But, but, um, but that's, that's what Bulls did. It was, hey, we just got gashed by some bootlegs. You know, where we're starting with this drive with, double corner Yeah, you want to boot into that. We're going to nullify that right now. It's a great call. And it is. And it's the play before, I want to get back to it, though, is, you know, so Adams had to score where you just, you know, unbelievable release. The play before that, the Packers did. Teams have done this for years where especially against man coverage down the low red zone is, you know, they do the motion with their best receiver who, who never blocks, by the way. But motion, act like he's in a blocking position. Speed motion back. And then, you know, back and forth. And what's, hey, what's beat the man. coverage because the corner whatever's going to be late. If you watch that play and seeing the Bucks defenders pass off. The communication was amazing. Communication was incredible.

Davis was pointing the whole time. The whole time. It's what the Rams didn't do last week, by the way. Same thing. It's the exact adjustment off of what we saw last week against the Rams. Yes. And that shows how well coached they are. They go, hey, if they do it again, this is what you have to do.

But if they have a counter for it like the Packers did, the guy was sent their weight for him in coverage. And it's like, that just shows how well coached they are because they have to communicate. If one guy's doing it and he's yelling and he's saying all that, it's like, okay, that player, you can kind of assume it's like, okay, that player's on his shit, you know, he's pretty smart. When you see three guys talking and none of them going palms up like, what? All of them are going, yeah, yeah, thumbs up, pointing, pointing. That means something's going on of that unit. Either the players communicate really well or their coaches are going like, hey, guys, this is their menu.

Now you remember, they're only going to order these three items. So we're going to this menu. remember this is what they like to run down there that's that's awesome coaching awesome game playing awesome communication from the players that's how well the buck's defense was as an entire unit playing and up front like vita vea coming on those games is just like ridiculous that's he's just a wrecking pounds she's just a wrecking ball and sue had a couple really nice plays i mean sue i mean he didn't have any sacks but he beat patrick a couple different times i mean everybody up front contributed to that game and so talking about down near the red zone they had great communication on that play that they stopped to Devante.

There was another play I wanted to point out that these are these little things the Packers missed all game. So in the first half, when they kicked the field goal, I think to make it 14 to 10, they had a second down play where they tried to run a little rub on the right side and MVS went under it instead of doing the rub and they had to chuck it out of bounds and Devante and Rogers were pissed. They were livid after that play because of he didn't run it right. And then they missed Devante on that double move on the next play because they were bracketing him.

And you kick the field goal. It was those little tiny margins today. And the bracketing Devante stuff, it was the last thing I wanted to point out before we moved on from the Packers offense. I thought that they did such a fantastic job, just doing a great, great job of, all right, we're going to play a man-cuff. It's the exact way I think you want to play this team if they're not able to have time for those man-beating concepts. Because if you're going to play man-covered, you're not afraid of anybody. Elson, man. And if you're bracketing him, then you're in good shape.

And they did a really good job of it the entire game. The only time that I can remember it coming back to bite them was on the MVS touchdown down the right sideline. Because the safety on that side was sitting on top of Devante, was one-on-one coverage on the right side. Rogers hits it. Later in the game, in the second half, on first down, exact same thing. He missed it.

Because that's a really tough throw. You're forcing them into really tough throws if you're saying we're going to take advantage one-on-one on the outside if you're going to play a man coverage. And I just thought, again, it forcing them into being a version of their offense they didn't want to be. And it was a masterful game plan. And it was masterful execution by the guys on that side for the box. Those throws are called 50-50 balls for a reason. Yeah. You have two examples. They went 50-50. And that's when you have guys that could change in numbers to make it's more 70, 30 or vice versa, you know, that you appreciate those types of guys. I mean, that was the whole

philosophy of the Legion Boom Seahawks days was that we're going to run this cover three. Our corners are going to stay on top. They're going to be super long because you're going to try and attack us with go balls. But guess what? We're going to, you're only going to complete one out four of them and that we're going to make you throw it because that's quote unquote is an advantageous throw. But nope, we're so much better that it's going to work out in our favor. And you can see the whole philosophy, the whole day was bulls on one drive, you know,

he's bringing pressure, bring different types of pressures. Then he's going, man. And he's saying, okay, but it's very similar that man coverage to what maybe the Patriots again or the dolphins run. that's twice. I'm going to refer to a third down defensive Patriots run, but they double your best receiver. No matter where he's lined up.

One double 17. That's all it is. That's what they did on third down is one double 17. They ran their own version of it. And they said, okay, that double move call was very nice, by the way,

that the Packers did run. They just missed it. That is just a fantastic play call. That just sucks. They just missed it. It's a tough throw. It really is a tough throw. But it's like,

even though Aikman was trying to say that Tavante Adams could have done something better there, which I was trying to. I mean, he also said the interception was on Mike Evans, the one that, oh, my God. Yeah. I wasn't listening. I was at the game, but I saw everyone react on Twitter. Six by with 34 inch arms, but yeah, yeah. You couldn't come.

Like all American basketball player couldn't come down with a high one there. But it, it's, it just speaks to what their defense was doing. They had the, at the very end of the game, they ran nothing but two manned, the entire drive until they got into the red zone. They just kept changing up the looks on them, just going, hey, we ran man last time. We brought pressure. you just adjusted out with the surface tablets on the sideline. But guess what we're going two man this drive? Oh, you just adjusted for two men.

Guess what we're blitzing this drive? Oh, you just started for blitz. We run a spot drop cover three. They just kept changing it up and they were just making them one page back. Yeah, there's a couple times that gashes did happen. You know, like there was a couple times Rogers delivered some beautiful throws. But then you had the flip side where there was very little that was easy in this game. They ran two man nowhere and they got a pick.

The guy undercuts it on the pick because the receiver wasn't expecting it. The whole, it's not just Rogers. the whole team expecting coverage is. Oh, I got pressed this time. Oh, there's off of me this time. Just keep changing it up. It's a bunch of bow-low punches. Just, hey, you got to adjust for this.

All right, I'm going to pop you in the jaw with this. And they just did it over and over and over. The man stuff is what's going to stick with me. When I think about why the Packers lost this game, it's going to be not being able to protect up front. They really did miss David Bakhtiari. And I, they managed to not really pay for it last week against the Rams, thinking part because Donald was hurt and they were outmanned,

or the Rams were outmanned up front. They missed him today. You know, JPP, those two sacks were not cheap ones. And Barrett did a great job on the other side. I think that their pass protection broke down. And I think that, again, there were no easy throws. The interception that Rogers threw, and we'll get to that in a second because of what it led to. But the interception Rogers threw in the first half, he made that throw in the second half.

It was that seam ball, same exact throw to MVS. And he hit it that time. Or maybe it was a lizard. I can't remember. But to one of those guys, it was the same exact throw. And it was a really, really, really. hard throw. It's a tough throw to make. He made it once and he didn't make it the other time. It is. And that's exactly what he did. That's exactly what this was. That's what I'll remember.

It's the bucks winning up front all game and them just making things as hard as possible because of how physical in their face, we are not going to make this easy on you. Stuff was happening in coverage. That was when I think about this game 10 years from now, that is the formula that I will remember, even if there were some well-timed pressures. Yeah. let's get to the interception in the first half and what happened right after. Explain to me how you call a robber coverage with eight seconds left in the half and not give your guy any help against the guy who runs a sub 440, by the way. We need to acknowledge this about Scottie Miller. Scotty Miller is not Wes Welker or Julian Edelman or a space receiver.

He is a burner that you need to pay attention to. and somehow he was allowed to run by Kevin King for a dagger touchdown at the end of the first half. It was a brutal stretch to come away with the field goal and then give that up. And also no timeouts. The bucks had no timeouts left. There's no way.

They had eight seconds, I think it was. No way in their right mind, are they going to throw anything in between the numbers? Like there's no play call that an office, any offensive play caller with like an ounce of, of IQ would throw it in the middle there. And they ran one robber with no pressure.

So you're not even heating them up. It's the most bizarre call I've ever seen. Kevin King's getting torched the whole day. But yeah, let's put Scotty Miller, condensed split. And it was great because Ariens and left which they just ran 989, which is, you know,

two goes on the outside, nine route, an eight route in the middle. It turned into like an inside post. But on that eight, they can adjust to either a dig or a post, 989 is the concept called. seven man protection. They keep grok in.

Manning, the Peyton Manning Colts used to run us with the Ariens and Tom Moore five, six, seven times a game because freaking Manning would hit Dallas Clark on it like all all day as he would adjust some routes. But they ran it, they ran the vertical version, of course,

because of a single high. And I just, and a cadence split out of it, he just gets a full head of steam. He has no, it's no contact on him. So you're not going to slow down Scottie Miller. So the cadence split,

right? He's probably thinking he might be running it out here. Out right. To shorten up the field goal. And that's what he's thinking. about and then to have it be a little bit of a wrinkle where he runs right by him. It's again, it's an aggressive call that paid off for them. It did.

And Brady knew it. Brady even threw it. Like the ball got completed with like one second left. Like Brady got it out quick. He was, he knew exactly what was going on with that. And I would say typically most quarterbacks there would throw it to the X because on a 989, it was single high. So he got matching man coverage on both sides.

But that's just an understanding of what they had there. And Brady, I think, looked outside and he's like, okay, I got this guy eight yards off. He's going to spray release and let's see what happens. And that ball came out. I think he, as soon as about the 10 yard mark, he was like, I'm, this is going to be a touchdown because Kevin King, I don't think it was expecting any of that. But that just shows. There's nobody that that communicated to him. Like, hey, stay off, be out, fun outside. Whatever it was, you had to inside help anyways because it's Robert coverage. That same coverage that Tyreek Hill beats Trudeavius White on on an inside breaker and then breaks outside exact same coverage is that he should be outside

because he has inside help from the robber DB safety coming down. He has inside help. He should not be beaten on the outside that he still was. It's just iteration. It's a trickle down effect. That's what happens sometimes when you don't communicate as well. Or they guys don't know the actual intent or you put your guys in a bad position like running one robber when the offense has no timeouts left and eight seconds left. It just doesn't make sense.

Bring a pressure or run a safe coverage. Those are only two options I think in my head, not one robber, which is kind of split the difference on there. So Brady didn't play great, obviously, three interceptions, but I mean, the one tip ball interception, that happens. The deep ball interception that off the pressure from Savage, it was third down. If he takes the sack there, they pun it. Well, in Fournette misses the pressure completely. He's got the line, yeah. I think that when I remember what Brady did in this game, I'm going to think about the third downs in the first half.

So the first six times they had third down and he threw the ball. He was six of six for about 140 yards. And if you think about those plays, okay? The first one, the screen to God went on third and 14. Oh, no, no, excuse me, that was later. So the first one is the slot fade to Evans on the first drive. Yep. We talk about this all the time with this team.

It's a high wire act, man. They are, it is a difficult offense to look good because there are a lot of high difficulty throws. That is a high difficulty throw. Perfectly done. It was Evans working against Chan and Sullivan, I believe, in the slot on that first third down. They end up scoring a touchdown on the second third down. Another stack on the left side, man beating stuff.

Evans beats Kevin King, good ball by Brady. Another third down, the screen to Godwin. Beautiful call, by the way. Like, absolutely loved it. Third and 14, run a little tunnel screen to Godwin. Get Jensen out in space where he's fantastic, grunk leading the way. Amazing call. The one that will stick out with me, though, which I think is just again,

the sliding doors moments you have in these games. That long completion to Godwin, that jump ball, it was a third down. Like that's a 50-50 ball that he has to tip to himself to catch. He comes down with it, next play, four-nut touchdown run. And those little tiny moments on third down, it's not as if these were easy throws where the Packers defense was rolling over for the most part. They rolled over on the four-net run.

But these completions were really tough plays that Brady made in really important moments. and we're not going to think about those. We're going to think about the field goal decision and the past interference and everything else. But those had just as much of an impact on the way this game played out. And I thought he played really well in the first half. Yeah, I maybe just thought Brady played

I should be pretty good. I think so too. I think he had the three interceptions. I thought maybe I'm just so hung up on that last pick, not being his fault. I'm maybe a QB apologist and my dad's an old line coach. It just doesn't matter. I mean, it just if you're throwing that interceptions,

or taking a sack, it drives over anyway. It drives over anyways. And, you know, I want to speak to the, to the Bucks offense. We talk about play action sometimes. You don't have to have a good run game to have a good play action attack or you don't have to match up what your run game is with what your play action looks like. Again, I'll speak to the Colts offense with Manning there. They ran nothing but zone.

That was like the only run play play play play play play. They ran outside stretch zone. Their play action attack, though, would be trap pass, you know, with the guard pulling out and covering towards the field and that's how their protection. They never pulled a guy unless they run and play action and it would still get freaking linebackers to pull up on it. And same thing though. I want to speak to what the bucks are doing because they're going to run three runs.

They're going to run duo inside zone or split zone. And those are like their three runs over and over and over. They're going to try cover up the looks, how they do it. On a lot of those plays, they'll motion a receiver down. Usually generally it's Godwin because he's a plus plus blocker and he's a stud and I love him. And that's why that's why he's a baller. But like anyways, they motion him down. And that one you're speaking of, the third and short that the go to God went on that, it tied into the duo look. So he's not just motion down in that play. He's in the sea gap. He's between the center and

the guard. And that's when they use him to insert him to block on those plays. On the safety usually. The key to play action is tying your runs to your passes. It's making everything look the exact same. So it's not as if he's just in the slot on that play. He's inserted as a blocker and then faked like he was blocking and then releases at the last second for a little easy completion. It's a great call and a great design. And it is. And it's just like he gave it the one Mississippi to Mississippi. He didn't get, you know, he didn't get antsy.

Coach Chris would say he didn't get horny and just like, you know, he just popped out there too early. Oh, he says all the time. But, you know, they tied in the look. And even the touchdown to Bray, same exact thing. It was a duo run play action. and this time it was a safe or the tight end act like he's coming up on the safety and the safety's like oh shit we just got popped with a couple duos for an it just had a touchdown against us okay i'm coming up and then there's bray just waltzing into the end's a wide open touchdown it's good stuff when you only major in a couple runs at the looks that you can tie into it you know what you can do with it and they look really really good like you said godwin inserting through the sea gap or looking like he is that's a lot better play action than usually a receiver going like oh i'm coming to block That's what it is. It's details.

You create a mess. You create an eye candy. I absolutely love it. That play was fantastic. And the other play call that sticks out to me that, I mean, without it, who knows if they win this game. The screen to Gronk on 2nd and 11, another just Byron Lefowitz hitting the right stuff at the right time. I thought that they did a really good job in those moments where they needed to kind of get back chunks of yardage. They did.

The screens are just really smart ways to kind of get those things. things back. And Brady just, he made a couple big throws in that game. The Tyler Johnson play on third down, like the inbreaker that he went low on. That was a beautiful throw. So again, the three interceptions are going to stick out. But he made plenty of throws in this game in high leverage situations. And he played definitely well enough to win, even if I'm given a lot of the credit here to the defense. So let's take a step back for a second and think about the wider ranging implications of this for Brady, for Rogers for everybody. I've said this a lot. I've said this a on the show recently, and I want to just keep harping on it.

It's ridiculous that Tom Brady's in the Super Bowl again. I understand that he hasn't played fantastic, and especially last week against the Saints. We need to understand that the playoffs aren't random. I don't want to say that. But these are one-game tournaments where anything can happen. And your win-loss record in the postseason as a quarterback is not determined solely by how well you play. or how great you are. I think that Rogers today is another example of that.

He played well enough to win and they didn't win. It's about getting your team there all of the time. It's about giving them a chance. It's about putting your team in the tournament and seeing where it goes from there. And Brady did that again. You know, Ariens came out after the game, and I don't want to get too far down this road

because I think it can be kind of ridiculous if you, you know, pump it up this much. Still going on it. Yeah. But he said it took that guy being in the building for everyone else to believe we could get there. And I absolutely think having that steadying hand on it, having a guy who's won 30-something postseason games does matter in moments like that. It makes it a little bit easier for the guys who've never been there before.

And he didn't flinch and now he's back in the Super Bowl again. And it's just I never, even if you were optimistic about this Bucks team and what they could be, and I was. You know, when they signed Brady, I thought, you know, we've said it a bunch on the show. I thought he could be a steadying hand for a team that didn't need much more than that. They had so much talent and the way they hit a home run, I know Winfield didn't play today, but the way they hit a home run in their draft class by hitting Wurfs and really just plugging the last two holes that they had, I thought they needed to somebody to keep the

train on the tracks and make spectacular plays every once in a while. And that's exactly what Brady has been for them. It is absolutely ridiculous. And I have a hard time even comprehending the ridiculousness of him getting back to this game again. in year one of a new offense and a shortened offseason with teams like the Packers and the Saints looming in the NFC. This is like, I mean, usually in the NFL with so much parody, it's more just get to the dance. You know, get to the dance and we'll win from there. Of course, you want to get the one seed, you know, with the implications with the buy week and the natural advantage that creates.

But really, it's get to the dance and anything can happen. I think ever since the Ravens won their original Super Bowl in the early 2000s, it was like, okay, a wildcard team can win. it. So, you know, which just gets that numbers. And with seven teams in it now it becomes even a little more open. But now that that one spot becomes even more of a thing. But the fact that Brady has reached 10 Super Bowls. I mean, this is like Bill Russell and the Jones Boys in 1960s Celtics. This is like the 1920s, 30s, 40s, 50s, Yankees. You know, when you see those ridiculous things, you know, Hank Aaron passed, you know, rest of peace. He had 25 All-Star games. And it's just like Brady has reached 10 Super Bowls. Like those are ridiculous numbers.

Most guys, they cry when they reached to one. My dad was in a league for 30 plus years. He didn't even make it to a Super Bowl once, one of even appearances as a player as a coach. He's made 10. Brady's making 10 Super Bowl imperiors. It's unbelievable. That's all time, any sport possible types of stuff.

Like, you don't do that. Like, 1960s Celtics were able to do that because there was like 10 teams. The 50s and 60s Montreal Canadians were able to do that because there's only six teams. NFL has 32 teams, you know, 31 teams for a couple of those. years but 32 teams that they're doing this stuff it's it's it's just it's unfathomable and i mean i praised my homes and i think he is ascending to a level that it's going to reset the bar but brady has set that bar pretty freaking high and watching him play and that that's like even his second interception to high ball to evans that we're just joking about like that's why he does things like

miss low exactly he does that he does that's why i was so surprised when he did it but it was the only spot he could have put that ball that's that's that's don't brady right there but he never does He does that. And that's, he never does that. The throw to Johnson is the exact opposite. He knows he has to go low on those. And that's why it was so weird to watch him miss high. I thought the exact same thing.

It's like he's, but that's the perfection you expect out of them. And you get to that level is that, oh yeah, Brady. Oh my God. Brady missed high. It's like, even the Godwin completion, the 50-50 ball, right? People are going to look at that play and they're going to see a lucky play. That's what they're going to say.

He stepped left to avoid pressure. on that play. And reset and delivered a ball to put his guy in a position to make that play. Is there a shred of luck in there? Of course there is. There's a shred of luck in every 50-50 play. He still has the presence of mind and the ability to maneuver the pocket at age 43 and put that ball on the money.

The Scotty Miller play, that's a 43-year-old guy who averaged 11.5 air yards per attempt in the NFC championship game today. I understand that he hasn't been lights out in these games, but they were the number one offense in EPA per play over the second half of the season, he's 43 years old. Without him, they do not have a chance to do this. And he'd made just enough plays. On the other side of the ball, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a little bit frustrated for Aaron Rogers. It really did feel like this was the year where they were going to have a chance to do it. And he said after the game, and read into this as much as you want, okay, when he says the future is kind of murky with a lot

of these guys, you know, including me. And these guys say things after games about where they'll be and where things are going and everything else. And there's a lot of emotions after a game like this, especially after a game where you can go to the Super Bowl. I've been in plenty of locker rooms after conference championship games. And it's weirdly more devastating than losing the Super Bowl for a lot of guys, I think. Yeah.

Because of the emotions, especially when you do it at home. But I've always felt it was the players. are more devastated after the conference championship game. They're almost too exhausted to be that devastated after a Super Bowl, is kind of what I've noticed. And so, you know, people say things. But they did draft his replacement in the first round of that draft last year. And who knows what this team is going to look like and who knows who they'll bring back

and who they won't. You know, they're up against the cap. They're paying a lot of guys, a lot of money. So there are questions. But it really does just have to be a gut punch for this to be the first. game they played at home in the NFC championship for them to be favored for this really to feel like the year and to still come up short. And now in the annals of football history, it just says one and four in conference championship game. Conference championship game is next to Aaron Rogers's

name. It's guys care about their legacy, man. It's just it stinks. I think I had new realization when we were previewing the show and then that the fact that they score average defeat field goal of drive, which is just ridiculous. And realizing that stat and realizing the tier that this offense was playing at, like you said, like this is, I thought the best version of this team that they could be. Like the run game was fantastic. Adams is just on another tier within any other receiver at this point, but also the auxiliary guys were stepping up.

NVS was making a place. Tanya and the tight end was coming along. And I just thought, like, I think just like you, I thought, I thought this was just a different different look to this team that it's just like they had that vibe to them they they were impenetrable they they they they they lit the best defense in the NFL on fire last week like it was nothing like they never were even phased by it they even when they had a like there's anytime the rams last week who like we said like you just said the best defense in a week anytime they got off the field like a three and out they took like a sigh of relief like oh thank god we're off the field yep that's

pretty crazy to put the best defense in that because they're the ones usually dictating they're the one saying to you, oh my God, we got a first down. Thank God. And I, I thought this Packers team, you know, they had that specialness to the offense. You said, shoot, like week two, week three, you're like says a lot of that 2016 Falcons vibes to it. And they did a lot of positive things like that this entire year. It just feels weird. It feels like you can't be disappointed. It's not like Rogers like shit the bad this game either. It's the nature of the playoffs though. And that's the problem. You know, there are a couple different people that said stuff on Twitter tonight and I shouldn't pay attention to this shit and I do anyway about, you know, what about LaFleur and what do you,

what do you think about Brian Daible now and all this other nonsense. And one game does not throw out what you accomplished over an entire season. It doesn't throw out what you accomplished last week. That's the nature of the playoffs. When you go back and you kind of dig through the history of these moments, very few guys win at these mindless clips in the postseason like Brady has or like Mahomes is doing now. And it takes a lot of it. It takes a lot of. And it takes a lot of lot of different breaks. I think Seth Wickersham from ESPN is a buddy of mine tweeted this today that Brady is now three and one in postseason games where he throws three interceptions. You need help. You need help. You're always going to need help. And the breaks of the ball, the breaks of the game,

it's so hard to know which way they're going to go. Last week, they dominated the best events in the league. This week, little tiny things. Right before that play where Devante and Aaron got really, really mad at MVS for missing the pick, they missed a back shoulder throw to Devante at the pylon. That's a touchdown nine times out of ten. It's these little tiny things. And all the credit, I'm not sitting here and saying, man, this is just another knock on Aaron Rogers' legacy. My takeaway from this game is not that at all.

It's that, God damn, did Todd Bowles and those guys play one hell of a game and call one hell of a game? And those guys get paid too. Todd Bulls is a former head coach because of how great of a defensive coordinator he was. and every year for the last five years, essentially, that he's been the coordinator of a defense, they've been in the top three.

He's a great coach. They have great players. Carlton Davis played fantastic today. Every single game doesn't have to be a referendum on how great a single quarterback is. There are 22 guys, and the 11 guys on the Bucks defense today play the game of their lives, and they deserve to be celebrated for that. It's football. The saying comes from any given.

Sunday because just so it's the ball the ball is not always going to be in your best player's hands like in a basketball it's five on five ball always can be in your best player's hands you can design it you know um a baseball it's a one-on-one matchup disguised as a team game football is truly a team game it's 11 on 11 one player screwing up can it's a domino effect all the way down sometimes the best player can be eliminated just based on design the other team is doing and the best teams are usually the teams that just put themselves in position to the ball's not always going to bounce your way. So they always put themselves in position to pivot so that something good can come out of what's happening.

They're always going to take the chances. Whatever chance you present towards them, they're going to go, okay, rather than just going like, oh shit, what do we do now? They go, okay, well, we're going to run the ball now. Hey, we're going to run this play now. Hey, we got to calm this to us. And seeing like, like you said, it's not a referendum for these guys because we've seen enough. That's why you play the whole season.

It's these blip games can happen. If this happened week nine, we would just go, oh, wow, you know, unlucky. You know, they just had a couple of plays. It happened in week six. They got shellacked. Yeah, yeah, exactly. This was an improvement from that. We would say, man, if they played in the division together, we'd be like, man, that second game, they really got their number.

If they play a third time, they might get them. But it just happens in the NFC championship game. So now it's the spotlight becomes just this different being all together than what would happen in the middle of the season. That's, that's what the playoffs do. It's the most human sport. It's all about being organized and being persistent. It's about having your teammates back. And there are cliches.

That's why the star players are so phenomenal because they can transcend some of that team element of this game and be that queen on the chessboard and be that individual player that can just transcend the game. That's why I gush over my homes because I'm just like the shit he's doing is just on another level because that it's a team game. It always is a team game. And that's what is awesome about the sport, but that's also what could be frustrating about. it. And that's why sometimes it's so hard to praise an individual guy as the best player because it's the ultimate team sport. That's what's the best, that's the best thing about football. That's why it's the best sport, in my opinion at least. But that's what's so awesome about it is that we can praise Rogers for sometimes transcending and being an individual greatness in a team game. But it's hard. You don't

want to get frustrated with him for the flip side of that. It's the ultimate team game. And we this year have the ultimate two teams going for it in two weeks here. And we're, Two weeks here. We have a team led by Tom Brady with a defense that is clicking right now and just absolutely has found itself in a way that I think even the chiefs have to be a little bit concerned about. And we have the guy who is coming for the crown and is playing the quarterback position at a higher level than I think we've ever seen anybody play it.

But we are going to have a lot of time in the next couple weeks to talk about that game to the point that I think we're going to have to pump the brakes and not talk about that much in the next seven days or so because of how much time we have. All right, guys. Backup on backup breakdowns. I go like, all right. So they're special team gunner versus their gunner. You know, I think the chiefs have that advantage.

Based on the schedule that we're planning on during Super Bowl week, I think we might have to be that great anymore. All right, guys. Thank you so much for listening. Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. I would sincerely appreciate it. We're going to be back on Wednesday. We have some special guests.

I'm really looking forward to it. We're going to do some looking back, do some looking forward. So that's going to be exciting. Until then, though, please subscribe to the Athletic. It's $3.99 a month. I'm telling you, it's worth it. We're going to have so much great stuff coming for the Super Bowl. You're going to want to be able to read it.

We'll be back on Wednesday. Until then, thank you guys for listening. Talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show.