The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Chiefs silence the Cowboys, Jonathan Taylor runs over the Bills, Titans & Seahawks in panic mode, Vikings shine & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

Another Sunday down, and we're left with more questions than answers. What do we make of the Chiefs defense shutting down Dak Prescott and the Cowboys offense? Should Bills fans be freaking out more than Colts fans are celebrating? What has happened to the Titans and Seahawks that we used to know? Nate Tice joins for the weekly postgame edition of The Athletic Football Show, discussing these topics and more including Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, Steve Spagnulo and more.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. The athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Doing well. I thought we'd be going into the show going like, hey, it's the home stretch.

We're entering the final third, the season. Stuff's coming to light. And instead, I'm more confused than ever. It's midnight Eastern. I am currently at my fiance's parents' house in Miami. This is why my backdrop is strange. So we're already into Monday morning, which makes me even more disoriented than I typically would be in a Sunday night.

And then, as I'm trying to settle into what the podcast is going to look like, that Sunday night game happens. Yep. I'm trying to keep it. At a certain point, it's like, all right, Chargers is a nice win. A lot of backups playing for the Steelers, but this is the type of game you want to see from them. It's been an up and down year. And then, I like to think that I'm a logical person and that there's a sense of rationality

that I try to ascribe to all of this stuff. And when the, I don't believe in things like special. team's curses. And then when that block punt happens, it's like, oh, no. And then the block point gets followed by throwing the ball off Cam Hayward's face. And you think, oh, my God, is this really going to happen to them? And then you realize that's not real. They have Justin Herbert.

This is a different team with a different set of circumstances. The Mike Williams play happens. The Chargers justifiably win that game. And now you can just throw them into the. ridiculous pot of shit that is the AFC playoff race as it currently stands. I have no idea, man. It's like the Big Ten West. It's like I have no idea what to make of any team.

I sound smart with the Patriot stuff. And then everybody other team, I think I was high on. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, it's just every AFC team. I'm like, I don't know. They're very, that's my catch-all term that I don't know is they're matchup dependent. And it's like so I think. That explains everything.

Yeah. I think you can say that about every single team in the NFC right now. is a train wreck on that side. But I agree with you. When you called me, we always call before the Sunday night game and we talk and we, hey, let's talk about this, this and that. We do plan the show. Yes.

That was the most sure you sound, the most confident you sounded over the outline. And of course, the Sunday night game happens. It's like, oh, well, we got to talk about that too. My takeaway from that is putting a bow on it. Justin Herbert's the truth. We know that. You know, there are been moments where we've been frustrated with the way their offenses looked.

I think that their season was always going to be uneven. And new staff, there are still holes on that roster trying to kind of put square pegs in round holes when it went and came to their defensive philosophy and their structure of the defense on that side of the ball. They have offensive line injuries. I think there are going to be some moments of brilliance from him and from them this season, but it's always going to be about next year. But I think tonight was a reminder that he's just capable of stuff that so few guys are. I mean, Shield tweeted it out right after the game was over. I think he threw for 390 yards and ran for 95 yards, no player in NFL history. has ever done that.

It's like an Archie Manning 1970. Like when he was at Ole Miss, that's like what the stat line was like. It's just insane. When the scramble what he had in the open field, it's like you forget, I mean, he's so big. And then when he just and when you see him pulling away from guys, a guy like Daniel Jones, he's big as well and can run. I mean, we've seen him pull out in open field.

Herbert's like another tweak on top of that, like just another half tier on top of that. That's, it's ridiculous. And he's making. I keep calling him S-tier throws, but just like just these incredible throws that he makes, like, putting touch on these balls, putting like, there's man. He had, he had won like a crosser and over. I want to say it was to Allen probably. It was.

It was. It was. Yeah. Yeah. He had the sale there. And then he had another one where he put in tight and he pinned it on the guy. And it's like, this guy's thrown line drives that 15 yards are pinning on guys and then put in touch throws that have speed on them.

Like, and it just getting over to top of these guys. And it's just ridiculous that he does that. No, yeah. He can just scrambling. ramble around and run past every single body, everybody on there. But it's what a call. He hit to Allen. The way he can layer that ball to the sideline on the second and third level,

it's the prettiest version of that throw in the entire league. And it will be. The funniest part of it is. And it will be. For the last 10 years, the Chargers had the best corner thrower in the entire NFL. They looked much different. Yes.

The trajectory on those balls and what they looked like in terms of hang time was much, much different when Philip Rivers was booping them out there rather than Justin Herbert zipping those things with like just the right amount of touch. Rivers was throwing him like two yards before the guy was breaking on the quarter. And Herbert's thrown him like, I'm going to throw this late. Room. It just sailed over the guy's head. It's yeah. It just, it looks pretty either way. I just loved how you said that go and it'll remain that way. The only way I keep saying is his throws look fake at times because he just put speed and touch at the same time. It just looks like looping liners, you know, to left and right center field and baseball

where it's just kind of like has speed that gives over the shortstopper to second base. But I mean, that's the only thing I could compare it to. So the way we were going to open the show before Justin Herbert did that before we got a wild Sunday night game was with the chiefs really taking it to the Cowboys at Arrowhead. A version of this game that you and I certainly didn't see coming. I mean, we thought there were going to be a ton of points in this game. We thought they were going to be just a back and forth offensive matchup. And that's not what happened at all. I mean, it was a really, really tough day for the Cowboys offense in a way that I just didn't see coming at all.

It was just disjointed. And even the stuff that they try, you can see where the injuries came into effect a little bit, not only just offensive line wise, but just with the receivers, especially, of course. And as the game went on after CD got concussion. But like, like, we're off the bat. They try to go tempo on third down. And it was like, you know, Terrence Steele,

I get what Terrence Steele's doing. He's about to get set and they're just going so quick and they're trying to go from there. But it was like that kind of expounded. Like that was kind of like just a little sampling of like the problems they had all day. I made the joke. I've been tweeting a couple times. Some freaking stupid Simpson joke about the itchy and scratchy and poochy episode where they go, they're going to the fireworks factory. I forgot in that episode.

They never make it to the fireworks factory. And neither did we. I didn't get to see the fireworks factory. I was so excited. That first chiefs drive, I'm like, here we go, baby. Like, yeah, now the Cowboys are going to come back. And it was, no, it just wasn't. After that first Chiefs drive, it was just, it was ugly.

I mean, that's the only way to put it. It was a couple of flashes each side, but it was pretty ugly on both ends. The Cowboys, just the version of their offense that they looked like was so almost unrecognizable. And obviously the receiver injuries are a thing, right? I mean, not having Amari Cooper in this game is huge and then not having CD land for a huge chunk of it. I mean, there were a couple contested balls and also just against the blitz.

I mean, the rapport that DAC has with Amari Cooper and the trust, you have to be willing to let those balls go. And I think that played a factor in it. But, I mean, the biggest thing today was that the Cowboys just could not push the ball down the field. I looked this up. Dak on throws of 10 plus air yards today, four of 17 for 58 yards. The only two quarterbacks in the league with a worse EPA per dropback on those throws in this week were. Matt Ryan in that absolutely disgusting Thursday night performance.

One of the worst offensive performances you'll ever see. Unwatchable football. I mean, you talk about a team depleted of their receivers. The fact that Cordoral Patterson was a necessary piece of this and you remove him and Calvin Ridley and it's Zakias and Tajay Sharp playing against that Patriots offense, understandable. The only other one, Tim Boyle. So that's the company that DAC was hanging out in today. And I just thought, obviously concerning from the Cowboys offense,

you never want to see something like that when you're supposed to be a Super Bowl contender. We called them the most interesting offense in the league last week's show. And I truly believe that. I mean, they were leading the league in EPA per dropback. They were leading the league in scoring. It's not as if we were heaping all of this praise onto a unit that didn't deserve it. It wasn't a hipster pick. It was a lot of high.

Exactly. So mainstream as it gets. I want to give a lot of credit to the Chiefs defense because they were impressive to me in a couple different levels. What jumped out to you today about the way that Spags approached Dak and this offense? They were a page ahead the entire game. First, Cowboys love being in two by two. They like, Dak likes having to even. He could read the coverage and see what's, see what's uneven about the defense of front.

So he can make his points. Spags was bringing blitzes that actually are impossible to block from a two by two six-man protection. like actually unblockable. How is it different blocking from a two by two versus a three by one? It's just the number count. One side gets overloaded how they can bring it. So if you bring like a saw pressure, one side turns into four guys and one side turns into two guys, just how you move the guys over. So it's kind of against that both linebackers blitzing the same and the will.

Sam and the will. And that's just a X is on the chalkboard. So it could be a strong safety in a will, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. But two guys off the edge. And they got them a couple times. And it was like, what they made them do was, you usually want to get to either seven man protection or you want to spread them out.

So the Cowboys were like, hey, we're not picking this stuff up, but spread them out and go out, go to empty. Hence all the short throws. Cowboys aren't a go ball team. They're not. How many times did you see contact throwing a goal ball today? That is a one-on-one, yes, it's an advantage throw, quote-unquote,

but it's not the one you want. We say it's a 50-50 ball. It's more like 30-70. They don't have those kind of receivers. Nope. They're not built that way. I mean, Mari's not that kind of guy anyway. way, but when you're depleted of your good receivers, you really don't have those types of receivers.

Throwing 50-50 balls to Cedric Wilson is not where you want to be. That's not what you want. And I thought, you know, there was some pressure, but there wasn't a ton. It's not like they were living in it. They were doing it just enough to keep them off balance. And I thought that that was a hugely impressive aspect to the way that the Chiefs play today. No idea what's coming. Whether it's bringing heat and then having them be uneasy because of that or when they're bringing four, Chris Jones just destroying people. And that, so that,

we'll talk about that in a second. But the other aspect of just the Chief's performance tonight specifically that I wanted to hit on, the tackling was incredible. Yes. Incredible. There was a two-play stretch at one point.

I think it was late in the first half where they tried to run two screens on back-to-back plays. And when you can't block, it makes a lot of sense in defined passing situations to run some screens if you think they're going to bring heat.

One-on-one tackles in space. Ligerius Sneed made an incredible play. on what should have been a really nice game. It was third and five on a screen to snee, a screen to lamb. And then there was another play. I want to say it was Sneed again, who made a play on Zeke.

It was another screenplay. And they did that consistently. The amount of plays they just snuffed out in open space was really, really impressive. When you're playing a pressure heavy look, you need to, that's what you need to do. You need to tackle on the back end. When you're playing coverage,

you need to dominate up front. and Chris Jones did that tonight. He did against everybody, whether it was Connor Williams, whether it was Conor McGovern, whether it was Zach Martin. It didn't seem to matter. He dominated the game.

And now I think it brings us to a conversation about the peace is falling into place for the Chiefs. He is, to me, the perfect example. You slide him back inside, peace falls into place. Frank Clark playing better on one side. Melvin Ingram is now in the mix. Your secondary is playing better.

Everything is starting to coalesce. They're 10th in EPA per play on defense over the last four weeks. People screwed up. The rest of the NFL fucked up. You needed to put these guys away while you had a chance. And the AFC was just not set up to do that this year. So now you have a team playing fine defense. They're fine.

Combined with Patrick Mahomes on the other side. And in a muddled AFC where there is no defined great team, now you have this chief's team just kind of sitting there leading their division and acting as a terrifying prospect for everyone else in the conference. Yeah. I mean, no one wants to play them. You pray against that offense.

Like how the Cowboys played today on defense was the best you can hope for. Really? Yeah. I mean, for the rest of the way, like if a team was going to play against this team, it's like that is the best you can hope for. But it's like, man, this offense, and especially, you know, C.E.H was back there. and you can just see just getting fresh legs.

However, whatever you think about CEH, it's third running backs, at least getting two guys that can do this stuff. Helps. It just helps. It's more bodies that you can stay fresh throughout, not only just a game,

just a season. So it's not like you're just relying. Like, oh, man, Williams is down. Holy crap. We got to, like,

who we run a jerk McKinnon. Okay. All right, McKinna, please protect for us, you know, like, but just getting another talented guy.

And they don't have, even last year, like, the defense, they had their moments. Every year, I feel like we talk about the chiefs exact same way.

First four weeks, oh my God, defense, oh my God, what are they going to do? Oh, my God, have they screwed up?

They spent too much money. And then all of a sudden we just get here to week 11, week 12, and we're like, oh, yeah, their spags gets really good as you realize as what his personnel is as the season goes along. And their offense is Patrick Mowis.

And, but this year, the line is a step better, a step and a half, two steps better than was last year. And like, yeah, is it perfect?

No. But it's better and it's good. And actually can, And they held their own against a pretty talented Cowboys front, even with a couple of injuries they have. I mean, they can get after guys. I mean, Parsons, persons had his fun a couple times. But, you know, that's going to happen. But just this, this Chiefs team, man.

I mean, just I want to talk about the other thing, too, was like, staying a page ahead. Like Spags, too, is like they started going two man. And they go to two men and the Cowboys were waiting for pressure. So they're getting an empty. They're going against two men. Decks like, I'm not scrambling. And they would have no outbreakers. They would just be running like four verts or something.

And that's not good against two man. The first time they ran sale, which is probably my favorite two-man play. So it's why I recognize it was the two-minute drive at the end of the game to Dalton Schultz. And that's because that's an outbreaker against inside leverage. And the fact that they stayed ahead of a team that's been really just dictating stuff. Like the Cowboys offense, even with the injuries they have, they're no joke. Like they can mess you up with personalities and formations and just running the ball. And like you said, they are tackling their asses off.

And that's stuff that you want to see. That's not a luck-based thing. It wasn't like three-tip balls led to interceptions. And it's like, oh, well, you know, they had that kind of havoc defense that created for the offense. It was like a consistent down-after-down performance from this defense. And it was a great, great job. 100%. It was hard every single play.

Nothing came easy to the Cowboys day. And now you're looking at an AFC where the bills are really struggling. I mean, their offense looks very disjointed. I mean, the defense will get to it today. I mean, they got run over. The Titans offense has no idea where it is. And I don't know how that's going to get better. Would Derek Henry not coming back with AJ Brown now banged up?

They seem to have lost their identity. The Patriots are cruising. But other than that, I mean, it's so wide open that leaving the door open for this chief's team, I think that we're going to have some regrets. Some teams are going to sit there and be like, with this, we had our shot. And we did not step into that opening. And now the Chiefs are just here. And the Patriots and the Chiefs look like the best teams in the AFC.

And I just, a month ago, that seemed pretty far off. Yeah. We called Michael, Michael. We called Patrick Mahomes Michael Myers before. And I mean, I think that's more like the Chiefs team. They're just going to keep coming after you. And then it's just like no matter like whatever the game, how it breaks, if it's ugly and windy and they miss field goals. How many miss field goals were there today in the entire NFL, by the way?

It's like 20 doinks, I think I saw today. It was, I mean, seriously. But I mean, honestly, they just, they're relentless. And it's scary that the defense can play like this. That's what I think it is. It's not this was not a, this was a process based win as opposed to just. They can win like this. And this isn't Jordan Love.

It's not squeezing out an ugly win against Jordan Love. It's squeezing out an ugly win against one of the best offenses in the league. Banged up, yes. But not banged up enough to explain a way or hand wave this performance from the Chiefs. Dack wasn't out. Yes. That wasn't out. So that's, that's,

that's really it. I know they're banked up, but DAC wasn't out. Here we go again. We're with these same old teams here, going to be sticking around until the end. All right, it's time to get to the teams and the players

that grabbed our attention this week. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention. Every week, obviously, a ton is happening on NFL Sunday. We got five games,

six games going on at once. We try to step back and talk about a couple things that made us sit up and take notice some of the stuff that really grabbed our attention over the course of an NFL week. And I want to start with Jonathan Taylor and the Indianapolis cults because they have my attention. I'm glad we talked about them on Friday. We talked about the Cowboys offense and Jonathan Taylor.

We got one of two. That's all it matters. Hey, 50-50. Man, that wrong game is fun. It's seeing, we talked about the trap stuff in the red zone. They were hitting trap in the field today in that run game. was some fun, fun stuff they were doing. Well, it was, we talked about this a lot last week.

When they were looking to hit home runs in the run game, which had been a huge part of what they were doing, they were second in EPA per play on the ground, but 18th in success rate. And that gap can be explained, like we mentioned on Friday, by a ton of huge plays. They got some big plays today, but they were looking for their chunk gains in the run game differently. They, before this in the last few weeks, they got a ton of huge plays off of inside zone. where they would let Taylor cut back.

And we were wondering how that was going to look against this Bill's team that's really, really good against the run. They didn't run a lot of that. Their biggest play today, and I don't know what you would call it. I guess it's just a trap play. But they were lining up with two tight ends to one side.

Doyle's their own look, which is their own look. Yes. So Doyle would trap the three technique tackle to that side. And then they would, that's what it would look like. He would trap it. and then it would allow the tackle on that side to climb up. And they did it four or five times. I mean, it was their best play today.

They kept going to it over and over and over again. And I have to assume they saw something on tape that they liked. And they just thought, we want quicker hitting runs against this offense. We think that's our advantage. And they just kept spamming it. And it was really cool to watch. It was. That play, I know it's called Wham, because every time I post about that play,

it's a trap variation. They pulled the guard or they trapped the guard in the tight end is everyone will send me some picture with Greg Roman's 2012 offense from the San Francisco 49ers. They call it Wham. So apparently that was when the tight end trapped the guy on the other side of the line of scrimmage, not the three technique to his side. It might be, but I would just call it a trap variation. It's a trap.

It's a trap. Yeah. Trapped variant. But it was awesome because not only they hit it like under center 12 percent out of the hip, they hit one out of shotgun, though, which was really cool. I thought it was a draw play at first. I was going to post it. I haven't posted it yet.

I thought it was a draw play at first. It was the trap play. It was the same one. They just ran it same side gun. And I think it was a great game plan play because at first they ran in the red zone. I was like, of course, that makes sense. They run out in the red zone. Then you see them hit three times in the field.

And it makes sense how the bills play. They're a classic four three front. I know they're in sub all the time. But four guys across the board, then three guys staying off the ball. And that makes sense because the D line and those fronts are B lining up field. Yep, they get upfield and trap takes advantage of that. And it's off ball guys. So just it's not as murky up front.

So guys can climb and get to the second level. So it just made a ton of sense that they hit it. And God, it was pretty. That and then the duo touchdown too, like Jack Doyle earned his contract today. He was awesome today. He was awesome today. Like he was a highlight. Like a blocking tight end was a highlight today.

And also how they use the pony personnel stuff today. Like we talked about it. But now they're showing the little sprinkles of. other stuff in it. I mean, the touchdown pass, if you guys haven't seen it yet, the touchdown pass that Jonathan Taylor caught, they're lined up with in 21 personnel with their two running backs on the field. They love doing this for a multitude of reasons.

They gave Naheem Hines a handoff on a jet sweep today. They have so many different wrinkles that they use. So on the touchdown pass, they send Nahim Hines in jet motion the same way he got the handoff today. I think the handoff was before, which is a nice. It was same drive. Same drive, right? Yep.

So he goes in jet motion. They fake a handoff to him and Quentin Nelson pulls to that side. So you get real hard play action. They find Jonathan Taylor after faking a handoff to him on a wheel back to the left. That is, that's next level shit. That's when you are like feeling it as a play caller. And you could tell that Reich was today. You could tell they had a game plan that they really liked because their quarterback was not playing great and they were still moving the ball at will.

Some breaks. Short fields will get to how poorly the bills played, dropped punts. I mean, there were definitely some breaks that went their way. But I felt like they had a great handle on how they wanted to construct that run game where they could get some chunk plays. And they understood who their best player was. And he right now looks like one of the best players in the entire league full stop. Yep. Any position. I mean, he screams the best player on the field. You just look at him. It's the classic, I think it was the Earl Campbell test or maybe to Eric Dickerson. It's like, hey, if you walk into a high school field, you say who's the best player. And it's like, if I walked down the field, well, maybe Josh Allen too. But I would say, oh, yeah, man, that Jonathan Taylor, that 28 looks pretty good. That catch, though, I thought that was Naheem Hines at first because he was so twitchy after he caught it. And he's a really good receiver. It's wild. I know.

And when I watched it live and he's improved. Even in college, every year in college, he got better and better with his hands. You can tell he worked at it throughout the year. And I think Chris, especially the last year was like, hey, the big negative on you is you can't catch. And then like they force fat him early on, padded his stats a little bit. And they worked off of it as a season went along. Coach Chris knows that take care of his stars for the NFL. But it was, I'm sorry, a lot of good coaches do. But, but this offense, though, like it, that Jonathan Taylor stuff, it was like, he caught that ball and how he just like readjusted after the catch.

It was like, and that's why I was like, he's 230 pounds doing this. It's not like some 1905 pounds. And then you just throw his guys off of them. Then he runs duo and then he jumps over the pile. And then he's like, I mean, just everything you do with him, he just looks like the best player. And he's also the fastest player on the field, like literally. I mean, we were miles per hour testing. Like, you can see he's the fastest player. It's absolutely ridiculous. And it's smart coaching to get the best player on the field of all as much as you can.

I mean, that's, let's just call it what it is. So the bills try to do it with Josh Allen for better for worse. But that's what the Colts is their version of it. Get the ball in the best player's hands and let him do it. And even the, I just want to add on the little pony personnel, that's when they have the two backs. is what called pony is that's two running backs, two tailbacks, is you're getting your best players on the field. Yeah, best five eligibles.

Nyheim Heinz is our best slot player, I guess, best adjuster, you know, that can move out across the field. Let's get them on the field and it's figured out. That is good coaching. And that's what Frank Reich's doing right now. The Colts are six and five. They're 10th in DVOA. Like they are a good team.

They've gotten some rough breaks. That Ravens game, obviously, they lost a heartbreaker of the Titans. It's been a strange. season for them. I don't know what their outlook looks like in 2021. I feel like they could sneak into the playoffs. They could be an annoying team to play against. I'm trying to take a step back and think about kind of where they are because this Wence thing, I feel like in terms of his returns and his production has been a success, right? Like their offense looks fine. He's playing much better than he did in Philadelphia. That has been an okay decision.

I don't know where it ultimately brings them, I guess, is my question, right? So you're kind of taking a step back and it's like, all right, we have, and Quentin Nelson got banged up again today, which sucks, but we have this offensive line that we've built, right? It is intact. I believe Gluensky is a free agent after this year. So that's something to consider it. He's playing well, man. Again, he had another great game.

So I don't, we'll see what that looks like. But you still, you have Nelson, Kelly, Smith, long-term pieces. Jonathan Taylor looks like arguably the best. running back in the entire league. Michael Pittman's having a really nice season. Heinz has already been locked up long term, I believe, on a pretty modest contract extension. So you have these pieces. And then on defense, you know, they're playing pretty well.

You know, they're not dominating, but they're playing pretty well. I just wonder, like, what the next 12 months looks like for them. Because it looks a lot better now. And I think you have to feel a lot better about it now than you might have six weeks ago when they were struggling and Wentz was banged up and they were really, really hurt. It just, I don't know, it's hard to dig through the muck with them and understand what it's going to look like moving forward. But I think that as you see some of these younger guys emerge, like, all right, here's a cornerstone, here's a cornerstone. We're going to talk about this as it relates to another team later.

It's much better to have that. When you can kind of sit back and like, all right, I don't know exactly where the train is headed, but I do know that we can build something out of these five, six, seven guys. And that's kind of how I feel about the Colts right now. I don't know what their ceiling looks like with Wentz and what they'll look like next year. But I do feel like, I don't know, just these like guys you can put away is it helps you feel pretty good about them right now. I agree. And some important positions too. But the I know the whole team is like how I feel about whence.

Like how I feel about whence is how I feel about the whole team basically. It's like sometimes, man, I get it. And it's like, I get it. And he makes a throw. And it's like, okay, okay, I can see this. But I'm just trying to have a metaphor here, maybe some of that sort. But it's also when I watch it. And then he has some moments where I'm like, oh, I'm not sure about that.

He's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, it is so, it's mad, really stressful. I mean, watching him is just really stressful. Do you see the one where he did the, the, the Matrix Neo? Like, he actually worked for him for once. Like, and he scrambled for 10 yards and got a first down. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Like, he, like, tucked under like two guys, like going over the top of him. I was like, oh, God. And it was like, it worked. He's done, he does that all the time in the pocket, but usually he gets his head kicked in. Like, Brian Danielson's kicking it. But it's like instead is, no, he like ducked it and actually got the first down. It's like, hooray. It worked.

But I agree with you. They have a lot of fun. There's a reason we talk about so many of their players just offhand when we're doing the offseason shows. They have a lot of fun players, a lot of players that you'd be proud to have on your team. It's just that quarterback. And then we got to go from there. And that's a good thing. It's like, all right, I can understand why they did it.

I can understand what they saw on him. I can understand why Reich thought he could get more out of him. And he has. This is a successful version of what the Panthers tried to do, right? Yes. It's actually worked for them. I wrote about it before the season. They kind of had parallel plans where it's like,

all right, we're going to take this guy and we have faith in our infrastructure to get more out of him. They have gotten more out of him. But where does this bring you? If you have, you're giving away your first round pick because he's going to play enough snaps to do that. You're going to have some cap space next year like you always do as this team to potentially finish this thing off. I don't think they believe they were Super Bowl contenders heading into this season. It was always going to be about next year. and it was always going to be about, all right, what do we look like with Wentz and how aggressive should we be?

What is the final stage of this look like? I still don't know because even if you can be encouraged about how well he's played and about the guys that we like, what is the ceiling ultimately? I think that's the question. And I don't know the answer. I still think it's probably not as high as you want it to be. Yeah. I think that's the best way to put it. Playoff team.

Yes. Contender. Nah. And that's how I feel about it. It's a place to be, man. That is a dangerous place to be. You can make a lot of bad decisions in that spot. But I do trust what they're trying to do.

Watching them this last three weeks has been fun. It's kind of what I picture this team looking like. So you got to take merit with that or take that prize, I guess, is the best way to put it. And I think everything else is bonus after that. I guess that's the best way to look at it as if you're a fan. Speaking of stressful quarterbacks. How worried are you about the bills? A little.

Much more than a little. I think how I've kind of looked down in the last couple of weeks I keep holding is that this offense hasn't figured it out. We kept going, hey, they're going to figure it out, but then we're like, it's week 11. And that's how it looks. They just, they don't make it easy on themselves. They are trying to live in the spread world. And I get it. They went all in on this kind of version of offense.

But they're facing the limitations and they're not finding an answer. And it just seems like they keep spamming the same. Yeah, they just like, there's nothing. There's no next step. Like I keep waiting for this next step. They have a couple cool designer plays, especially when they get in the red zone. But it seems like their base down stuff. Their first and second down stuff is very lacking.

And so it's just a lot, it's a lack of efficiency. That's what it just feels like in the whole offense. And that starts with running the ball, which is what they want to live in. But also on passing the ball, they're just not getting those chunks, right? Not chunks. Just those efficient underneath stuff to like Cole Beasily and Stefan Diggs. And that's what I kind of was picturing, more crossers, There's more stuff like that.

It just seems like everything's more. They're trying to do something that they shouldn't, like a square peg round hole a little bit. They're trying to be, I don't know. I don't know what they're trying to do with their passing game. Because sometimes some weeks it looks so vertical. And some weeks it looks like a bunch of smash routes.

And then some weeks, it just, but then the thing is they don't adjust as the game goes along. It's like, oh my God, they're playing cover two against us. And then there's no dig routes. There's no like benders trying to hit that. It's just like they just keep trying to hit their heads against the wall, hoping something changes.

But it doesn't. And now we're going into week. 12, and this has been the story throughout the whole year. And that's scary. Again, I trust this defense. Even after this performance day, I think this defense is a good sound unit. I just thought the offense would have more, even if they'd lucked into it sometimes, more upside. I thought they'd just be hit 20 points, 25 points, easy every game. And then some games they explode for 40. But man, they're just barely getting a 13, 17 sometimes and it looks hard. He is not the type of quarterback you want pressing. When things are going wrong, it can

start to snowball and it could start to roll down hill a little bit because he's always trying to make a play. And when you're not making a lot of them, you're trying to make a play even harder. And that's when some of the things happen. Like you saw today, I mean, a couple of those picks were bad. We were bad, bad plays. And when they don't have a groove, those are even more likely because he's just trying to score the 14 point play. And he is the ultimate guy to try to do that. And I just, it worries me. Again, I just don't think they have a pivot point. I think that teams are playing them a certain way. Teams are kind of daring them more than any team in the league. And them in Kansas City, teams are saying, we want to make you run it 35 times because we know

you're not going to. And when you don't have that pivot and you don't have an answer to those looks and you have a quarterback whose ambition is his greatest downfall in a lot of ways, I think you're seeing the end result of that. Yes. He's a fastball. He's a fastball. hitter that keeps waiting for the fastball and teams just keep pitching them changeups. Yeah. And it's in curve balls off sweet stuff. And he's just waiting for the fastball, waiting for the fastball. That whole that's what that offense looks like.

They're like, they're going to blitz us. Oh, no. They're going to run man. Oh, no. Like, but their teams just get running too high and mixing up coverages and they just keep like again, I said a page ahead at Spaggs is feels like the bill's offense at times is a page behind, uh, playing all these defenses every week. Well, that was the thing.

I was so confused last year when teams continued to run man coverage against them and continue to blitz them when it just wasn't working. I mean, I believe he led the NFL and dropbacks against man coverage last year and they shredded their coverage. Some of that is the teams they played, right? You play the Patriots twice a year, you play the Dolphins twice a year, it's going to skew it. But even outside of that, it felt like that's what a lot of teams were doing. And there are times where, I mean, Doc was an example. He wasn't great against the Blitz on Sunday, but for the most of the year, he's been great against the Blitz. And sometimes it takes an entire year for teams to catch up with their plan.

It's like, all right. And that's kind of what it felt like with the bills is that teams looked at what happened in 2019 and they said, we're going to bring heat and play man coverage against this team because they can't win against that. And for an entire season, they were successful against it. And it took an off season for defenses around the league to say, well, I guess we're not going to do that anymore. And it feels like the bills have struggled to adjust to that adjustment.

And there's a reason you see that that saw that happen in the playoffs is because that's the first time a defense probably looked at a whole season of film of them. And it was like, because the breakdowns are different. When you're in seasons, the last four games and previous opponents. And that's it. You get into the playoffs. It's like, hey, let's look at every freaking third down they ran. Every red zone play they ran.

And then you get good coaches. I also go, hey, what just do this. That's, and then that's what happens. That's the playoffs that starts there. And you know, you see it, you know, trickle into the next season. But that's a great, great point. So I'm looking at the numbers right now. Against man coverage this year.

This is really, really good radio. My internet is not great right now. Against man coverage this year, he's eighth. in overall dropbacks, but there are 115 dropbacks against man coverage this year. But if you look at the total number of dropbacks, the bills have had, their third. It's 422. So they've faced man, they've faced zone coverage on like 75% of their snaps, which is, I guarantee you a lower percentage than they did last year.

I bet you all that man was against the dolphins earlier in the year, too. Yeah. So just take that game out. It's probably like 90%. Yeah. So it's, I definitely think that that's a worthwhile shift to real. when it comes to why they've struggled to move the ball because teams are just saying we're not going to

lean into that version of defense because we know that that's what you can actually succeed against. All right. Make it play small ball. Yeah, exactly. All right, it's time now for the State Farm, surprisingly great performance of the week presented by State Farm. Come on down, the Minnesota Vikings offense. What a fun game. I mean, it started slow.

There were a couple of weird drives like the Rogers Strip I was like, man, are they just, have they found themselves offensively? Or like the Packers just not going to get there? Is he like, is he, I don't know, is Roger, is something happening with him? Like there were so many, there were a couple moments early on. I was like, man, this is an issue for them. And then both of those offense just started throwing fireballs for the final three quarters of the game. I had like a very much like a moment that had to sit down about all four sides.

I'm not including special teams here because, but it's like about the Packers defense, about the Vikings offense, about the Vikings. defense about the Packers offense. Like I had like a coming to Jesus moment about every side of the ball throughout this throughout this game. It was like different moments of it. But wow, what a fun game. And watching the Vikings throughout this whole year and especially now like learn how to

use 11 personnel like probably like slowly drip into Mike Zimmer that's okay to have three receivers on the field. Like seeing this like package expand every week like they started with the, it was the Cardinals game of week two is when they started really. It felt like to me that they leaned into it. I'm sure someone will have numbers to go actually this week. But it was. And as we end the season, but as KJ.

Osborne and Conklin, like being able to do what they do out of those personnel groupings, they're not as as tendency driven out of 11 personnel. It used to be Vikings on first and second down are going to be in 21 personnel with a fullback or 12 personnel with two tight ends. And that's that. If they're in 11, that is a pass. Now it's 11 personnel. Oh, shoot.

They actually might run it. Oh, they're in the gun. Oh, they actually might run it. So it sounds simple, but I'm telling you guys, like just that little bit of variability, it just helps. Like it just does. It makes the defense have to, they don't have to worry about just rock. Now it's rock paper scissors. And when you get that with defense's guy, defenders just having to do that, it's, that's what it goes.

And even the designs like the Justin Jefferson touchdown for the. Oh, there were so many of those today from them. Both teams. Yeah. There was so many of those today from them. I agree with you that the offenses look more varied. But it's funny, the one, the space jam play. that both of us tweeted the exact same joke at the exact same time.

Love you, buddy, by the way. That play was old school, right? They're in 21 personnel, and we've talked about this on the show before. As of a couple weeks ago,

no offense in the league had faced more snaps of cover three than the Vikings. Because when you're living in this 21 run-heavy world, you're going to have a lot of heavy boxes with a single high safety. So the packers are in that look, which for them is a rarity. they play with more light boxes than I'm not saying the other team in the league, but Savage's walked down.

And they ran just a deep corner route to Justin Jefferson against cover three off play action because out of that look, you have to account for the run game. So that's like old school Vikings. But then the touchdown to Jefferson is, so they, on the same drive, they lined him up in the backfield twice.

The first time, the Vikings ran a play against the Packers that the Packers ran against the Rams last year. So you have those two, that splitback look, and you motion one of the guys out. And by doing that, you create an even lighter box. So the Vikings run that and they get a nice little run play. She's like, all right, that's your pupil learning. That's the type of thing.

Against this type of defense, it's a great play. We've seen it all over the league this year, that motion out from the split back. And then they get down near the goal line. Justin Jefferson is in the backfield, and they just run an option route with him to the same side as Adam Thielen. We've seen that a bunch of times this year. Cooper Cup has done that. It's just a really cool wrinkle. And the Thielen touchdown early in the game was an option route to the left side with him and Jefferson stacked on the same side. So, I mean, this offense, man, Kirk was 9.9 completion percentage over expectation today.

And they were, they look really, really good. They have moments where it's like, these guys are superstars. Like Justin Jefferson is a legit superstar. And when you have a game like this, you see how the pieces fit together. Yeah. It's watching continue. like coaching staffs and players play each other, divisional opponents because you get to know each other. It's like you remember what we ran three years ago and two years ago and earlier this season. And so like I've talked about you,

you know, game playing the previous four weeks. And then on top of it, it's like, well, this is a Zimmer defense. So we have to do this, this and this. Because every time they do this, we do this. Oh, so watching this game and watching Rogers and the defense kind of like go back and forth on each other was so much fun because on the flip side was the Vikings doing the same thing. And like, but I, God, I don't know.

This game was just like the, the pressure touchdown to Justin Jefferson, that too. Oh my God. Like, what a play by Kirk. It was unbelievable. Like they, no matter what, because it was a fine air protection, the Packers were going to get a free runner on there. And they ended up with two. He just bought that time, just that extra split second and through just ball.

And, you know, Jefferson gave a little shimmy. He gave the chicken wing. We've talked about it. Hey, slithery. He's funky. Hey, even the, even the refs don't know how to call it. They're like, that didn't look normal to me. That's not a flag.

Like, but that 77 route, or I'm sorry, I call it 77. Greg Olson called it 77. That's how old school it is, is that Olson was calling it the numerical system, 77 being two corners. Two corners. Seven is a corner on the route. So when you're in stack and you call it 77, one guy has to know, well, we can't run the same seven route. So one guy has to be higher. But that's how old school it is that even Greg Olson was like, oh, yeah, that's 77.

I was like, yeah. But on the flip side, this Packers offense, too, going like the first play, Zimmer doesn't bring a lot of pressure on first and second down. It's all the third and fourth down, right? First play, Vikings heating them up. And it was like, oh, okay, Zimmerers like bringing it to them. Like, that's pretty awesome. So that's, again, that's those divisional opponent tweaks that these teams do. They, they know each other's tendencies so well. It's like, all right, how do we dick them this time? And you go from there. But that's why this game was a ton of fun. And I haven't gotten to the some of Aaron Rogers's throws today. So Aaron Rogers today, against the Blitz, eight of 11,

for 229 yards. Shredded it. That's why they stopped. 3.5 EPA per play. It just absolutely ridiculous. And you could see it. Today felt like, and I'm curious what throws jumped out to you,

but today felt like an old school Aaron Rogers game where he had two touchdowns off scramble drill. He had a back shoulder to Devante that's completely improbed in the middle of things. And that's what it felt like. The one play he had the little flip. It was like a dip and flip against the blitz. that I can't remember who it was two.

Oh, St. Brown. It was Equamination and St. Brown. Yeah, yeah, even that was like a little improvved Aaron Rogers play.

The Deguara touchdown was him working out of structure. It felt like a 2014 Aaron Rogers game against this Vikings defense, which was very fun to watch. Yes. The one right before the two minute, the touchdown on the deep post to MBS,

it was like, that was such a cool design. And you can tell because after they scored, after the Vikings scored, before Rogers were talking. So they knew they were, okay, what is Zim, throughout this entire year, the two-minute defense hasn't been great for the Vikings. And it's because Zimmer will sit in quarters and soft coverages and what you dink and dunk and the guy misses the tackle

or our old corners can't keep up the receiver. So it looks bad and bad and worse, ask the Cardinals. But again, like, this is knowing your opponent. Packers knew, hey, they're going to be probably in a quarter's coverage. Okay. Snap the ball. So three by one. So they had a divide concept, which is a corner and a post and then under something underneath.

And it's a quarters beater because what they did on the backside with Devante Adams is they just had them on a dig. And it gets quarters. The backside safety drives on dicks. Yeah. So it became a deep high, low. And but it was like, you can tell Rogers was waiting for it. It was, I know that Harrison Smith is really smart and is going to drive on Devante Adams because he knows Devante Adams is our best receiver. So as Rogers looked and you don't usually go low to high on that.

So it was, he went low and it. hung in there and just launched it. And it was like, that's pretty awesome. That is like confidence with a backup, backup left tackle, or backup backup left tackle, I should say. And just knowing your opponent and knowing what they're going to be in and then running a play and then executing it. It was so cool to see that. But then Vikings marched back down. But that was just a really cool play. And then the touchdown before the half was like ridiculous throw. I mean, working left and hitting it right there in court against that man coverage. Stupid throw. I know. I can't wait to watch that one on a coach's film. The last thing I want to ask you, do you feel

like, and this is anecdotal, do you feel like we've just seen way more corner routes in general this year because of how much quarters coverage there's been? That's what it feels like to me. I mean, the amount of seven routes and deep corners and sales that we've seen completed this season, it seems like there's 20 of them every single week. Yeah, because in a normal cover three, if I ran smash, either corner hitch or a flat corner, you're usually taking the underneath throw because that corner is going to sink underneath if it's a traditional cover three or if it's even three match that guy's going to sink and all these cover three match rules were built to stop these type of concepts or their rules are at least so now we get into quarters which is the flats

are working inside out and the corners are kind of playing the same but they're more on top so now it's like a true high low and if you're going to run a cover two variant that's what smash china is like meant to beat is cover two because you're trying to high low the corner a lot of passing concepts are built on high lows. There is no more traditional high low concept than smash or quarter outs. Like that is why because that is just the space you're attacking. So like this year, you're probably going to see more digs, more seam benders, and more corners just because of the coverages we're facing or we're facing because I'm an offense guy,

coverages that offenses are facing this year. But yeah, no, that's not just anecdotal. That is just the coverages like that they're dictating against. Also, by the way, all the like heavy, like, sorry, this is just a theory I've had all day. And I, maybe it's not the best time to get this out. But for years and years and years, or I would say at least we've gotten more advanced analytics is that we're saying, hey, pass ball, pass ball, pass the ball. When it made sense because the past ball more, because every defense was playing freaking single high for like five years. And then now we're in too high.

And I don't know. So maybe the numbers are going to switch because we're now we're facing different coverages. I don't know. You're talking about one of the stories of the season and like one of the defining elements of this NFL landscape right now. I don't know. I don't know. But I'm just saying the numbers might have gotten skewed. for a few years. Maybe, you know, we got, you know, lump that with the evidence.

A little more variables than we realize. I might be thinking about that literally every single day. And I'm sure it's something that we'll dig into here over the final couple months of this season. All right. Guys, remember, like a good neighbor, state farm is there. Get a quote today. Why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight-year-old? All right. Every week, we have a couple things that happen on NFL Sunday that need some explanation. And this week, it is the Titans somehow losing to the Texans. and being unable to move the ball for pretty much four straight quarters. Nate, can you explain what the hell happened in Nashville today?

It sucks when you have to play your fourth and fifth string receivers. That is a problem. That usually is a problem. I, uh, yeah, it's the room for error evaporates without Derek Henry breaking 12 arm tackles a play and like taking a five-yard game, making it an 80-yard touchdown. Like I would say the really the telling play is not telling. But like to give you the best evidence that was actually screen plays. Like they had a screen to Foreman and a screen of McNugles.

Like I think they were both in the second quarter. And they were both nice gains. Like they got a first down on both of them. But then you could just see like where Derek Henry, that's not a run play. These are screens. Derek Henry in open field, it's like, oh, here comes the choo train or the tractor or whatever they call them. And then, but you see these guys catch it. It's like they get tripped up.

And it's like, okay, nice. You know, it was blocked for 12 and they got 12, you know, as opposed to like maybe making it 50. But also like there was a lot of. I think receiver bus that actually happened in this game. Just it looked. There was a couple interceptions. Like even I think it was the, oh, they had a sack tanah had where the receiver doesn't run a slant.

And so he's just waiting on them. He runs a slant at like three steps. And it's, ooh, uh, it was death Fitzpatrick. And then they had another one, the last interception. Two guys ran like the same route. And I was like even on that play, it was, you know, it's like the spacing's not there. So it's like, they, they take away that ace in the hole that is Derek Henry and just pounding the rock and going like, well, we don't know what to do right now.

Okay, it was just run zones, run duo, it's run split zone. Hey, get us on track. Get us on going, going, going. Everything today was like, hey, they had to manufacture or something. Hey, we got to go to tempo. We got to get cheap yards. That's what it was. That's what a screen offense is. That's, you know, it's cheap yards. It's get them, get them. Like, let's make it easy on ourselves. And you can see today when you have a defense that's like, hey, let's just take a.J. Brown. And once he got banged up, who do you go to? Who wins versus man coverage? Like, who is the guy that's going to get open on man coverage on, on. every single snap. And really, they didn't have a guy. And that was very, very prevalent today. Yeah. I mean, you could just tell. They really lacked a receiving option. The fact that they're going to Des Fitzpatrick in some of these situations is all you need to know. And so a couple of things, they, I don't know the exact numbers on this. They've clearly run a ton more screens over the last few weeks because that's manufacturer's the exact words. They're having a manufacturer offense. And when they, you know, they had a playbook before that, I don't know, it wasn't gimmicky,

but they had some cheat codes, right? Like, they're, the way. The way, they use play action was its own version of a cheat code. Now they don't have that anymore. They can't just continue to go to that. If you look at the numbers, over the first eight weeks of the season, Ryan Tannahill was averaging 10.17 yards per attempt on play action. It was the fifth highest mark in the league. Since Derek Henry got hurt the last three weeks, six point four five yards per attempt off play action. It's 25th in the NFL. It's completely changed the complexion of their offense. Like everything that they used to be is no longer on the table and then you lose A.J. Brown. It's like, all right, what are we possibly going to do? They're also terrible on third down today. They're one of four on third and three and less. You're going to lose.

You're going to lose. You're going to lose when that happens. And they really, they just don't know what they want to be on offense. And I think it leads to like a larger question. Now as we look at an AFC, even if the bills are struggling, where the chiefs are finding themselves, the Patriots playing extremely well, even if you're looking at the standings right now and you see the Titans at the top, how good can you really feel about them when you look at just this complete lack of self-awareness and assuredness offensive?

Because that's what it feels like to me. And you give them a little bit of the benefit of doubt, right? We said this before with the Chiefs. Sometimes it stuff takes time. Sometimes it takes time to understand. This is who we need to be with this personnel and this version of ourselves in order to succeed. I just think that's a really, really, really tall order.

It's never good when the strength of your team has become a question mark or the supposed strength. And not just the offense, but running the ball and like you said, the play action and screen game. I mean, losing, what is that, five yards a pop per play action and they run a lot of play action. That's a lot of hidden yards. You run out of avenues to explosive plays. When Derek Henry isn't ripping off 50 yard runs and your play action game isn't working, where are your explosive plays coming from?

And there's just nowhere for them to find them right now. You know, it's the hardest way to win as an offense if you have no playmakers is if a defense just runs man against you. It really is. If no one can get uncovered, I mean, as the Jaguars, if no one can get uncovered, it is really hard on your quarterback. And Tana Hill, Tana Hill has his strengths, but he does have weaknesses. I mean, he's not, he's a very, he's a limited quarterback in some ways and he's exceptional in other ways. And throwing guys open against man is not like his favorite thing to do is throwing those guys open. And it's taking those in breakers and throw into a spot.

He's a spot thrower. He's not a touch thrower. Just watch how he throws. It's all line drives. That's what he is. He's a pin the ball on the guy. Deep balls and inbreakers. Like that's what that's your Ryan Tannahill playbook.

That's what you're going to get. He's really good at that one thing. It just, hey, that's what this offense is. It's like, hey, Derek Henry's really good at this. Our quarterback's really good at this. Our receivers are really good at this. Okay, let's just do it a hundred times.

Just go, go, go. What we was talking about good coaching. That was, you know, good coaching. But that's the thing. We've talked about many times about what's our favorite running back in the league. And, you know, it's Chubb, it's Henry, Kamaro, CMC. And whenever it comes back to Jonathan Taylor, whenever it comes back to Henry, it's that you have to build a whole offense around him.

That's his upside and his downside is that it becomes a one-dimensional offense in the fact that you have to feed him. That's the most you get out of him. When he's hurt and you're all in on that, that's tough. It is like losing a quarterback. I'm not saying that's some MVP thing or anything like that. I'm just saying, but as far as an offensive identity, that is what it takes away from them. Because now, like you said, the cheat code's been taken away and they have to play on hard mode. And it looks like it's on hard mode right now.

We've said this so many times this year. How many different avenues do you have offensively? How many different ways can you be efficient and explosive? The Titans were efficient and explosive in one specific way for the last three years. Two years, two years, right? How long is 10? Oh, two years? And they were one of the most effective.

efficient explosive offenses in the league. But it was in this very, very hyper-specific way. Now, when they can't be that, it's really, really difficult for Ryan Tannahill to kind be the centerpiece of an offense that gets you where you want to go. And that's not an indictment of him. It's just, again, they were built in this very specific way that is really hard to replicate in any way. I think if we're going to go cross sports.

Like, think of a basketball team running a pick and roll and you just lost your pick man. Yeah. And now it's, that's what it is. They lost their pickman. Now it's a point guard that doesn't know how to finish at the hoop. And like, so now that just got taken away. I don't know if that works in basketball analogies, but it's close enough. But that's kind of what happened.

They lost Derek Henry. They lost their pickman. They lost a Marri Stoddmeyer. And now it's Steve Nash trying to kick it to a bunch of guys that can't shoot threes. That's what this offense looks like right now. All right. I don't know Steve Nash and Ryan Tannanel is the right realm, but you get it. I get where you're going.

I definitely get where you're going. All right. Let's get to the Seattle Seahawks. I need an explanation for how this. They, again, lose to Colt McCoy and the Arizona Cardinals, 23 to 13. Russell Wilson finishes 14 of 26 for 207 yards. He takes four sacks, okay? Typically in this moment, we would try to figure out what's going on with the Seahawks offense.

How can they fix this? What are the paths forward? I don't think that's really useful because the Seahawks are 3 and 7. They are two games back of the seven seed in the NFC, and they have lost the tiebreaker to two of the teams that they're going to have to fight for that with. They've lost the tiebreaker to the Saints, and I believe they've also lost to the Vikings this year.

So there are three games back of those teams. I don't think the Seahawks are going to make the playoffs. So now, I think we need to have like a real conversation about Seattle. If you look at the standings right now, they are three and seven. They, as of right now, would be giving the fifth overall pick away to the Jets.

Okay? For a limited safety. if you look at the team right behind them in the current draft situation it's the bears they are giving the sixth overall pick away to the giants as it currently stands they did it for a quarterback which is a whole different conversation but the other day we were on hosian johns talking about the bears and one of the questions that came up as we're thinking about their outlook and their future was how many blue chip guys do you have as building blocks on this roster how many guys are you going to be able to construct this around over the next five, seven years?

Answer that question for me with the Seahawks. Well, real quick, it's right exactly what you're talking about with the Colts. And you're looking at this exactly how I was looking at this, because that's exactly how I'm viewing the Seahawks team, is who are their stars? Who are they? Especially on defense. And it's telling. And it's very telling, especially when they get banged up.

And it's like, who do you rely on? Because when injuries happen to role players and just maybe offense alignment, defense alignment, you rely on your stars more. And then it's like here, it's like you never, what's their identity? Like, what is it? On defense, I feel like they change it every week. I might be wrong there. I know they run the same kind of, you know, three buzz week and stuff like that.

But it's it just, I don't know. I don't know who up front is their guy. Jordan Brooks is fine. Bobby Wagner's RIP. But it's like all, you know, in the back end, it's like it just looks, how many times Ron Dale Moore catch something underneath today? It was like, he looked fantastic, by the way. But it's that, I, I completely agree.

agree with you. I don't know who any of the blue chips guys are. It's a bunch of two-star recruits. That's what it looks like. And Russell and Russell, I banged up Russell Wilson, especially on offense and DK doing a couple things, but they don't use him how, I don't know, they just use everybody in a weird way. So I don't think anyone gets exposed in a good way. And but it's also like, is that because of who they are or, you know, or is that what they do? You know, that's a You haven't said any names still. Huh? You still haven't said any names. You said D.K. McCaff half, half heartedly. That's it. that's really it right and especially if you look under a certain age

jordan brooks isn't bad jordan brooks may be coming jordan brooks is an off ball linebacker that they drafted in the first round and a receiver and a receiver so that's what you got dk mackaf i think can absolutely be in that in that conversation i think tower lock it's a very good player as well yes okay yeah russell wilson is 33 years old he'll be 33 years old next week bobby wagner's 31 dwayne brown is 36 and then we're out of guys essentially. And you're giving away a top five pick this year. You gave away a first round pick last year to go get Jamal Adams. I have no idea what this team is supposed to be. They lack identity. They lack pieces. I have no idea. I have no idea what the next phase of

this is supposed to look like. And it's for a team that you can get excited about when you think about Russell Wilson and versions of them we've known in the past, those versions are on. Like they're closer to a team that probably needs to start over than they are to a contender at this point because they lack those blue chip pieces. And that's hard to face and hard to fathom when you have a guy we consider a truly elite quarterback. But I think that we might be at this place, right? I completely agree. It's a team at the crossroads, but we knew it was a team of the crossroads, maybe going to this year, especially how the Russell rumors and the offseason stuff. But now it's like we're like halfway down the path of the free build.

Like that's what it feels like. It just bad vibes on the whole team. Like it just feels that way. And it kind of telling too in that little blue chip exercise that neither of us really were jumping to name Jamal Adams, which is what the whole trade was about. And just this whole team lacks, like you say, identity, but also the confidence in themselves. Because Russell Wilson, like we, I mean, at the very least you consider we're a very good quarterback. And today there's two plays in the red zone that were telling that he lacks. just confidence in what they're doing.

They ran stick nod, which is everybody runs stick nod in the red zone. Everybody runs stick. So stick nod is when the guy fakes the stick route and runs a nod around. It goes up. Stick is two outs. Yes. Yeah. So they ran in the low red zone.

Russ, I think they put D.K. Meck off in a stick nod. And then so Russ is about to work outside. He just panics. It's a clean pocket. All he has to do is progress one outside and he hits the underneath throughout. The guy walks in for a touchdown. He panics. He starts to have scramble and he just throws it at the guy's feet, fork down the kick.

I think they actually missed the field. goal. And then they had, I don't know if they did, but they kicked the field goal. And then they had another one again in the red zone. And he had mirror double slants. He looks to the right side and double slants. You go inside outside. He goes inside. He looks at lock it. He doesn't even like look to throw it. Like he doesn't pump the arm up. He just looks to scramble right away. And it's like clean pocket. It's an easy read. That's a one two. That is. Everybody does that. It's a day one freshman year. And it's like, ooh, if that you're lacking confidence in those staple concepts, those aren't new game playing concepts.

That just shows it's like, man, even the best player is not feeling confident what they're doing or just what their team is. And that's telling, I think it is. It's just that the guy that's supposed to be the most confident on your team is not playing that way. I get he's hurt and all that. But I think that just sums up what this team is. I mean, think about how much energy and oxygen we've spent talking about. All right, now that they have a new offensive coordinator and that they brought Chain Waldron in from L.A., maybe this is going to fix it.

Like maybe we'll drop Russ into this offense. with these receivers and that'll be the answer. And it feels like this might be a Russ problem more than who the offensive coordinator is problem. And Russell Wilson, again, in a very specific way, is an incredible quarterback. Yes. But I think that we probably need to be honest about where the issues lie. You keep cycling through these offensive coordinators and you can't find any true long-term

answer because that's what it feels like right now. It feels like it's the Russell Wilson offensive. in the Russell Wilson offense and its shortcomings. How are we going to get over this? Yeah. And they don't have that easy card. We talk about cheat codes. What's their cheat code?

Yeah. They have done. It used to be Russ go scramble. That was their cheat code. Russ. I've made the joke, Baker Mayfield's Russ without the athleticism. And now it's like,

holy shit. Like, you know, it's starting to squeeze a little bit because the athleticism is in that there what it used to be. Because he, every time you can tell he's looking to scramble, he's like, I'm too old for this shit.

Like you can tell. He's like, and that's a problem. Yeah, and that's a problem because that used to be their bailout card. Like they, nothing was going on. Trust me, I saw that first hand at Wisconsin. It was great. It was awesome when Russell just made things look good.

But it was that is he's, he's older now. He's entering his mid-30s. It's that they don't get those easy yards, and especially if the run game's not going to look there. And they're not getting those cheap kind of underneath throws. It used to be the nice, heavy play action stuff, but that stuff looks hard now. And then even if you become one dimensional in that way,

It's like the only past plays we do is play action stuff. Teams are going to go soft on you. And we don't have to worry about Russ because Russ's not going to check it down. Russ's old checkdown was him scrambling. It was him using his legs. He's not using that now. So now it's touchdown or sack. And so they just lost that that, that, I'm sorry, that floor has just been lowered.

And I think that's really what it is. On an offense, I always wanted to build on explosive plays. Now that that high end is high, but that low end is even lower now. And I think that's what the offense looks like. And like you said, it's the Russell Wilson offense. It's my quarterback. We're going to bring something back this week that we have not done for a little while, and that is the quarterback bat signal because I had to put it in the air this weekend

because Cam Newton is back with the Panthers, his first game back in Carolina. When you watch Cam this week, what did you think about his performance? He knew how to throw a choice route to CMC. Man, he really did. Hey, what's fouling that away? We're talking about spamming a good play. But it was fun watching him. I would say for one guy that needed to take a break,

at least for his body, it might be Cam Newton. He has a lot of hard hits on that body. And maybe taking a few weeks off from a whole season, or just half a season off and get rested and, I mean, he looked good. And I know he played last week, but playing a full slate today, man, the arm had zip on it. He threw a comeback to Robbie Anderson. That thing was a missile.

Like, man, it was a good, solid performance from him. And they had a limited playbook. And you could see that somewhat in the stat line, too. I think it was 21, 27 or something of that sort, but not a ton of yards. And that's because they were running about four concepts the entire day. And that's essentially what they did. But it was if you can do that with a limited offense against, you know, the defense that played

okay. It's exciting. I think it's exciting. That first touchdown was awesome. I mean, that the, it was the draw RPO. He's an incredible play. I love that play. Joe Brady ran it with Burrow once.

It was awesome. Yeah. So what it, yeah, just what it is is he runs a draw. The safety comes up. You throw the, you throw the glance route behind them. It's an RPO, but it's not. It's an RPO not in the way that you think about an RPO. It's the most extreme RPO you can get.

Yeah. I mean, it's like just like, I mean, pure mainline form RPO, but what's get as vertical as we can get. It was awesome. But hey, he was able to whip that out and Cam executed it perfectly. I mean, the run for the touchdown was awesome. You can see him striding out. It's a 25-yard touchdown run. I mean, that has, you need to run away from people to make that happen, which that was really cool to see.

The one thing I will say, I completely agree with you. it seemed limited. 5.3 air yards per target. It was all underneath. Some of that is skewed by just how many choice routes to order to Christian McCaffrey, but even not to Christian McCaffrey, it was all underneath stuff.

So it was limited. But if Cam Newton, if this version of Cam Newton that we saw on Sunday was there for the last month, how many more games do they win? Oh, two? At least two. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you got to realize how bad darn it's been. He was the worst quarterback in the league. Yeah. I mean, as well, he did the first three weeks. It's been as terrible as it could be after that. So imagine he's just got average play out of camp, much less, you know, good play. And I think today you played, I would say today you play overall above average to good for what they, what they needed. But I mean,

if, like you say, if he does this every week, that's, it can be a winning formula for him on offense. It makes sense. It really helps him. That old line is not good, but he helps because he's so big, he can create. He's not going to really eff you over with a bad head, like what the hell was that decision. So we see, again, we're talking about floors and ceilings. He raises the floor. Having a runner or a quarterback with legs like that raises the floor of the offense. It just does.

Once you get those cheap yards, I think that's going to be the, the, we should just title this episode, cheat codes. Like, okay, because that's what it was. Another team that really, their performance on third down really hurt them. They were all of their first four and first down with a 2.5 yard to go average. So just short third downs that they were not getting. The other stat that I thought was really telling about their performance today. Washington allowed 3.3 yak per reception during this game with a quarterback that

average five air yards per attempt. Typically, when you're throwing the ball that short and you're working underneath, you're trying to live on yak plays. They weren't there. And it was because of great tackling. I mean, Washington made so many great plays in open space today. And there were plays that one miss tackle. and a five-yard game becomes a 20-yard gain.

And that was just not available to Caroline today. I think in different circumstances, in a different day, this offense is going to look okay with Cam. It's going to look much better than it did with Sam Donald. I was encouraged. I mean, the touchdown throw to McAfree is beautiful. That was just a beautiful throw. That all-go running back seam looks really good

when Christian McCaffrey is running the seam route. And that was a great ball. So, yeah, I think overall it was encouraging. The problem was they played a guy who was, unconscious for four straight quarters. Have you seen the numbers on Heineke today? I just know how he is on third and fourth down, man. Screw first and second down.

Just get the third down with him. I mean, he's unbelievable on third down. Okay. Taylor Heineke today completed 72.7% of his passes while averaging 12 air yards per attempt. Sure. Absolutely ridiculous. You got your scary Terry game, by the way.

Incredible scary. scary Terry game. He had that played on the left sideline, just a beautiful, just go get it

throw. And Heineke, he also had some places as a scrambler. This is the perfect encapsulation of, he is very entertaining at times.

He is going to win you a couple games. He's also lost you a couple. He is a backup worth watching. Like, that is what he is. And today and last week, he made enough plays

for them to win. This Washington team is weird as hell. He is enjoyable at times, but I have no idea what to make of him. It's so fitting that he is. him and Fitzmagic are in the same.

Oh, my God. I don't. I know. It's just so fitting. It's like the air apparent. Like there he is. It's just like sitting waiting for him. But yeah,

I, he is fun to watch, man. I don't care. It's like he, he just is. Like he's, you can tell he loves football and I,

I know how corny that is, but like you can tell he just likes playing. He's playing with house money, man. Yeah, he is. Yeah. He really is. It's,

he is mocks from varsity blues. I swear, that's, I'm just going to continue that. That's, he's, He's mocks from varsity blues and he just made it to the pros. And then I'm just going to continue with that comparison.

Pumpy breaks key. All right. Every once in a while, I like to throw out something and ask you if I should slow down a little bit. And the one thing I wanted to kind of present today is a thought. I think of all the teams, all the five-win teams bunched up in the AFC, the team that would make for the best, most entertaining entrant into the playoffs, the team we'd want to watch the most because they'd give us a good game. come wild car weekend of all those five-win teams in the NFC is the Niners. I think that is the team I would want to see in the playoffs to really give us a shot in an upset, a team that could maybe win a couple games.

Do you think that's fair? Do you think I need to slow down on that? God, after last week doing this, now I'm like gun-shy. But I do not think you have to slow down. I agree with that. This is, hey, coming in this week, there is seventh best team by DVOA, which was third on offense. Third.

Yeah, sure. I totally knew that. And they're just getting healthy. And oh, boy, watching George Kittle out there setting that edge, that was a highlight in itself. We're talking about Jack Doyle. Watch George Kittle today. He was burying guys on the edge. And, I mean, they're getting healthy.

We kind of knew what this offense would kind of look like. We've seen some, the variability or the versatility that this offense has done. Like last year especially when it was kind of a weird season. And then now this year, it's like, okay, with I. I yuk out of the doghouse and realizing that Debo Samuel is our best player. Hey, what's tweak into that, lean into that.

I agree. I think this, this offense is worth working in the playoffs. And I think this defense, especially with the front seven and figuring out what they are in the back in. I agree. I think this team could be feisty against a lot of teams. And I just think they have a good feel right now for what they are.

And I think they're really trending upwards as a team. Getting Iyuk out of the doghouse and like him just making plays today, he was all over the place. you realize why people were so excited about him coming into the year. Debo is has leveled up. I mean, what he's able to do with the ball in his hands. I mean, he's one of the most dangerous, exciting skill position players in the entire league right now. Yep.

He's averaging 9.7 yak per reception this year. 9.7 after the catch. And it's not like he's ever, Rondale Moore as average area odds per target is like 1.3. Debo's is 8.7. and he's still averaging almost 10 yards of yak every single play. That's ridiculous. And he's doing it as a runner now. So them having those two guys, George Kittle back,

it really does feel like the offense is kind of settling. And then on defense, Jimmy Ward is back now, which is Quistkee Tart played today, the front seven, we know the guys up there. I just, if you look at the landscape of the NFC, and you have the other teams in this conversation would be the Saints, the Eagles, the Vikings maybe, I still think right now,

the way that the Niners are playing, they would have the best chance again to just rattle off a couple wins when we get to January. Well, no one wants to defend the run game. Yeah, like ever. And now they do this.

I mean, how they just use that personnel, I was talking to the versatility, I churned it out somehow, but with the 21 personnel, just sitting in that, they go, Jushik, I,

Dibo Samuel, and Kiddell, and it's, and whatever runnerback they want to put back there. And it's like, All right. Now we're going to go in like five different variations of this. And we're going to have juice check in a slot.

Debo's in the back field. The runoffack split out too. We're going to go empty and then we're going to motion back kiddle. Like just it's very unpredictable without really for an offense, really doing anything crazy. Like because that to them is just like I said, X's and O's on a chalkboard. But they're just kind of just tweaking it for the defense. Their defense has to look at all this window dressing. They're like, okay.

Oh, geez checks in a slot. Oh, shoot. We got a pressure here. No, no, no. We can't man, like, they have to think. And you watch it today against the Jaguars who struggle to defend a lot of teams, not the bills, but, you know, watching this 49ers offense go against them, it was that first drive was brilliant. I mean, they didn't score the touchdown. But like all the plays on it, I mean, there are some awesome run plays they're running.

It's a team I really do think is trending upward. And even guys like, like they have some rookie stepping up like whofanga, the safety. Like he's doing a couple nice things the last couple weeks. It makes sense. I feel a lot like you say. I feel better about them. And even the offensive line has gelled a little bit better. Again, it's weird how a tight end can help the offense align, but it does.

Because what do you get a double team with Trent Williams and George Kittle or get a double team going the other side? It helps. And I just, I like where this team's at right now. And I want to keep watching them. I think they're in a upward trend. I think the Vikings are probably in that conversation. You know, they're another top 10 team by DVOA. We saw what they can do today.

I think the Vikings peak is similar to the Niners. But I just think that what the Niners is. are week in and week out offensively with this group. When these guys are on the field, I feel very good about them. The Saints are just too banged up. Yeah. I mean, you look at what they were today. I mean, they're just too many guys not on the field.

You know, your offensive line is in tatters, no Camara. You already don't have any receivers. It just feels like they're a snake bit this year. I mean, we'll see what happens and what this next version and next stage of the Sean Payton era looks like. But I just don't think that they're going to have the teeth to compete with some of these teams. Philly is interesting. I mean, there's so much more interesting than I thought they were.

My thought about them, again, is like, all right, now you've kind of assembled these pieces as you think about what your off season is, right? They assigned Dallas Goddard to an extension. My lot is going to be around. He had a couple really nice moments today. Landon Dickerson is going to be hopefully a piece for them moving forward. They still have Lane Johnson. Darius Slay with another pick six today. He's the only member of their secondary coming back next year.

That's how I feel about them. It's like, all right. we now have a handful of pieces where we don't have to tear this whole thing down. The transition to what our next step is going to be is going to be a lot smoother than you might have expected this spring. But I still think right now they're not on the same level as a team like Minnesota or the Niners are. I agree. I think that the Eagles, I admitted last week too. I was saying that there's just so there's more pieces there than I even realized before the season.

Yeah. And not even including Devante Smith, like guys like that. Yeah, I mean, they just, Miles Sanders isn't a bad player. Like they have nice, they have nice pieces like you say. It's a totally different revamp than maybe what the Seahawks have to do. Seahawks have to figure everything out. Eagles are like, okay, we might have a hard question at quarterback. We don't know.

Jaylon Hertz is playing well. He's playing better. He does hit stuff in the, I mean, the offense line dominates so he can hit stuff in the fifth window, which is really nice. He had one of Devante Smith. Devante Smith ran an under route. And I swear, it was the fourth window. It went one, two, three, all the way across the side. And then he finally hit him.

It's all. Hertz does some nice things. But this offense realized, the coaches realized what they had with the run game with the offensive line with Hertz's legs and making it simpler on them. So it was cool to see them answer some questions they maybe had early in the season. But I completely agree with you. I think this is just a bonus here for them. Figure out what we have.

Hey, re-up on the guys we know are sure things. And, you know, and then we go from there. So I completely agree with you. And I agree with you with the Saints. I just think the Saints, you take away the offensive line. It was like, oh, my God. Like, there's no one that can beat you on that team. I know Kamara can be a great player he wasn't in today or even last week.

But no of those receivers are getting open. None of those tight ends are getting open. So if you played a defense that could full blown lock them down, play man, every single snap and load the box, like that would be an ugly slog. So yeah, I would say the 40-9ers are really the team. I want to see the playoffs or the Vikings, like you said as well. All right. It's time to figure out who gets the belt this week.

What is that? Cass. Yeah, cast spells that end zone cast. It was these two like Jersey Shore bros in WW. They were very entertaining. Yeah. Point out deep cuts that you and Kent know about that I have no idea what's going on. I know.

All right. I think Jonathan Taylor has a worthwhile case for it this week. But we're going to go a different direction. I think we should give it to Steve Spagnoa. It was a great game by Jonathan Taylor, obviously all of the touchdowns, but you look back on it. I thought the game plan was great by the Colts. I thought that some of the touchdowns were like cheap little short drives. He was fantastic.

He's going to be one of the best ones. best players in league for a long time for the chief's defense to do what they did against the cowboys offense even with a couple of those receivers dinged up even with tyrant smith not playing i thought that was the most impressive performance anyone had today and we hit i agree i hinted at an opening segment or kind of just alluded to it and saying it wasn't luck based this this this performance by them they were a page ahead they had answers for everything they had a game plan and we have talked before. Spags is one of the best game plan coaches in the week as far as coming up with an individualized game plan for an opponent. And you can tell this game, he was like, they're getting

two by two, we're bringing this pressure. If we're getting this, we're running this. Like, they had an answer for every cowboy's look. And this is an offense. We talked about this entire season has just confounded people, just running these similar formations and similar stuff, but no one has an answer. They were the ones page behind. And it was, it's a very impressive to see a team that, okay, we have question marks about really have kind of like a definitive performance and really just, you know, can plan a flag a little bit. And that's what this performance felt like. Different, like you said, than the Jordan Love Packers game. It really felt like this unit went out there and they kicked ass. And that starts at the top. You know, it's spags. You can see his

fingerprints all over this, this game plan today. Guys just smothering stuff underneath. As soon as they got to empty, they were like, okay, we'll go soft coverage. Just an outstanding game plan. And all the players are ready to perform it. So yeah, I agree, giving him to build. Yeah, I mean, it's just He threw a no-hitter. I mean, they were on it every single play. They were on it in every single way today. All right, that's all we got for tonight. Remember, guys, please send in your questions for the mailbag this week by 1 p.m. Eastern on Monday.

You can give us a call at 872-22-22-7073. Again, that's 872-22-7073. If you want to leave us a voicemail, you can also send us an email at Athletic Football Show at Gmail. It's going to be with Mitchell Schwartz again this week. Really looking forward to that. In the meantime, please rate and review the podcast, your podcast platform of choice. I'd very much appreciate that.

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