The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Chiefs trade Tyreek Hill to Dolphins + sorting through the NFL’s craziest offseason

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

The wild NFL offseason continued on Wednesday when the Chiefs sent WR Tyreek Hill to the Dolphins for five draft picks. Robert Mays and Nate Tice break down both sides of the blockbuster trade and Hill’s new four-year $120 million deal with Miami. Plus, they dive into why this has been the craziest offseason in recent memory and what we can learn from it moving forward. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. Today is Wednesday, March 23rd. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. Nate, how you doing, buddy? Doing well.

The NFL doesn't stop, and neither do we. And here we are. We've got another move to talk about, just so lead the show with. So, Sheel was going to come on today. And we had an idea that I was excited about. I was like, oh, man, we're going to take a step back and talk about some of these teams and their plans and what we can learn from them. moving forward. And then, of course, there's another huge just bomb drop of news this afternoon.

So we're going to do that later in the week. And you and I are going to talk about the latest, just blockbuster trade in the NFL, what the ripple effects of that deal are. And then I also want to sit back and kind of ask, why is this happening? Like, why has the last two weeks felt the way that it's felt? And I ask some people and I have some theories about it, but we can dig into that. Let's start with the news of the day. I mean, it's just every single day, it's something wild where it's 11 a.m.

you're settling into the day and everyone in succession, Rap, Port, Shefter, Palliserra, everybody, it's like, Tyree Kill is going to get traded. And three hours after it happens, maybe less than three hours after it happens, it goes from some sort of theory with the teams that are finalists to this is done. The Dolphins have traded for Tyree Kill. They traded five picks for an all-pro receiver on one of the most visible teams in the NFL that's a perennial contender, and now we're left to sort through the mess here.

So you look at the compensation. 2002 first, number 29, 2002, second, number 50, a fourth rounder, a fourth rounder in 2023, and a sixth rounder in 2023. Five picks for Tyree Kill, who as part of this deal gets a three-year, $73 million deal practically.

All of it will be guaranteed by the start of the league year next year, surpasses the three years and 67.5 practical money, that Devante Adams just gets. So Devante Adams for one week was the highest paid receiver in the league and now Tyree Killis. So that's just another thing we've had to sort through today.

Like you know how quarterbacks when they like it always seems at the same time everyone reups and gets their extensions. Oh, it happened weekly a couple off seasons ago. Yeah, it was like Derek Carr was with it for like four days and Stafford beat him like right away. Then Matt Ryan was in that conversation. All of those guys in succession a couple years ago.

That's what's happening with the receivers. It's crazy. It's not. like these guys are 31, 32, like Julio last year, you know, going, okay, beat up Julio. Okay, he's on a new stage of his career. These guys are in their primes, freaking old pro last year. Like, you know, they're both under 30. Devante Adams.

You can make an argument that they're the two best receivers in the league. I mean, impactful. The two most valuable impactful receivers in the league got traded in the span of a week from teams that are not retooling. No. From teams that we think are true contenders. And we'll get into all of that context here in a second. First question I want to ask you, why do you think the chiefs would do this?

There are actual answers, right? But in your mind, what do you think prompted this from Kansas City side? Yeah, I think it's a reload. And that's how I've been looking at it, is they are, they looked at the landscape. They have the hardest thing that you can find, which is the franchise QB. They rebuilt their offensive line. And it's a young offensive line. It's not like, okay, you know.

But it's about to get a little expensive. And we can talk about that. Yes, and we can. But that's where they're putting their resources in. Okay, our quarterback, I think what they are thinking is Patrick Mahomes is going to give a boost to Hever's playing at those positions. Yeah. Do we need to pay more than $20 million for one guy when we're always going to be tight against the cap every year, you're in, you're out for at least, you know, next four, five, six years with Mahomes and his deal. So I think that's what they're looking at this. If we rather have several B, B plus guys at a third of the price point or on a rookie deal than paying one guy more money than the top pass rushers are getting. You know, so it's the juju signing as well. I think there might be a philosophical change in how they do things.

Like they might just say, hey, we don't need the, how the defense has played the chiefs. I mean, even if you look at the average depth of target for Tyreek, I think it went down like three yards in this past year in 2021. And it's been well documented how defense has played them differently. And I think what they may be just talking to X's nose perspective, they go, okay, we got our speed guy, Mikul Hardman. Now we need guys that are more of those short intermediate guys that we made Tyreek has become that. kind of more shorter immediate yak guy as opposed to just the bombs away guy. So I think that's what they're kind of a philosophical change as far as X and O's, but also with looking at the roster construction.

They said, our resources are an offensive line in the quarterback and then we're going to figure everything out with our draft picks and then tool like bangles the defense, you know, do what they want to do with those other spots. I think that's, that's their philosophy on that. They created $20 million in cap space and this is a loaded receiver draft. So I can see why they did it. I think they said we can get a guy in the first two rounds. this year or maybe the first two rounds next year

and we can just rebuild it and have two cheap guys as opposed to an expensive Tyree Kill and hopefully one of those guys hits. So when I was saying the Chief's Offens Line is about to get expensive. Next year Tuny has a $22 million cap. If they extend to Orlando Brown, which you assume they would and they got two guys potentially making $40 million combined. Even with those other

rookies on their rookie deals with Tray Smith, with Creed Humphrey, those guys are cheap. It's still going to be at least middle of the pack offensive line. They're 18th in Offensive Line spending this year right now against the cap. And that's what tuning making $8 million and those guys on rookie deals. So when those numbers jump next year, just again, more things you have to consider.

So based on multiple reports, and I want to get into the X's and O's on-field stuff, but a second. But let's talk about kind of the, let's talk about the financial aspect of this, right? Multiple reports from multiple people have said that the Adams deal kind of changed the climate for whatever the conversation between Hill and the Chiefs was, which makes total sense. As soon as you have somebody like Devante Adams, reset the market, just beating out, Kind of the Julio number in what it was. You know, it was reported that he was breaking the Hopkins number, but if you look at the actual practicalities of it,

it's like $22.5 million, which is still the biggest wide receiver contract in the league. So if you're Tyreek Hill and you're 28 years old and it's time to have a contract discussion, you would want the same number. I mean, it makes total sense. It's not like Christian Kirk getting $18 million. It's a guy who's a perennial all pro. One is being paid at the top. Yeah, he's 28.

At the top of the market at his position. Makes total sense. The butterfly effect of all this shit is incredible. Barnwell said this today, and I think it's exactly right. If the Texans don't deal DeAndre Hopkins and the Cardinals don't give him that new money extension for 27.5, there's a chance that Devante is still on the Packers. And if Devante stays on the Packers, there's a chance that the Chiefs just keep Tyreek Hill because his value gets depressed just enough for them to talk themselves into keeping him,

which is just crazy, but you can absolutely talk yourself into that series of, of events. Bill O'Brien, man. Bill O'Brien, Brian, just nuking the league. Trent Balke and Bill O'Brien are the causes of a wonky receiver market now. I know it's, it's just bizarre. We do there's going to be so much QB movement. And, you know, the Mari Cooper stuff, that happens. Okay, that, that seemed like some receiver movement that may be expected. But we're, I think you hit it right at the beginning where it's the Packers and the Chiefs. They just, they, Mahomes is under a deal for forever. They just re-upped with Aaron Rogers.

we thought it was going to be the last dance. We thought these teams were all in. And they both just went, we're going to retool it. We're going to retool our biggest strength. But now with the money stuff, it's just very, very interesting how these teams are looking at it. Like I, we have. Okay. Sidebar.

This is why my hesitation saying a receiver is a premium position because the effectiveness is tied to so many other things. O line blocking, quarterback throwing the ball, play caller. I think how these guys are looking at how these teams are looking at it goes, we can find another guy. And is that worth $12 million in saving the money? We'll find out. But it's just, it's super interesting, just the philosophical differences of these teams. So you look at it.

They save $20 million against the cap this year. And I think that's important because when I was looking at this team, like last week, and I was thinking about their offseason, there wasn't more many places for them to go. They didn't have a lot of resources. And they had holes. There's still a huge hole at edge rusher. There's still a hole at corner.

They have no depth on the interior of the offensive line. They have very little depth in the secondary. They're going to say goodbye to Tyron Matthew. There are so many things. You have to consider about how this could be a complete team with the limited wiggle room that they have. Mahomes is a $35 million cap hit this year. We're here. We've arrived. Next year it's 46.8. And there's some flexibility because of the way they structure this. All the roster bonuses. They should be able to create some space moving forward. But this team is getting expensive. We said, Tune's on the books for $22 million next year. Orlando Brown's extension, which is pretty much necessity after dealing for him last year. Maybe that comes near the top of the left tackle market. Even if it's not at the top top, is it 20 million for a guy his age at that position with some leverage? Let's say it's 18, whatever.

You're still paying $40 million potentially for those two guys combined. Even if they move on from Frank Clark and Chris Jones next year or one of them, they still are paying a lot of money to a small group of guys. And there's a chance that they said, we want to go in a different direction. We want to be able to spread out these resources to kind of figure out what the next stage of this is. is for us. And I think, how would you compare this to the Packers situation? Because I do think there's a lot of similarities, but I think there are some important differences too. Oof. Yeah, because Packers have a really well-balanced roster. Like looking from, I think from top to bottom, one of the better rosters in the league, even without Devante. I mean, the receiver room, it's going to get an

upgrade. Don't worry, people. But I think, I think what the Packers won, it actually kind of made more sense because they're like, we need this money to pay all these good players we have. The Chiefs one is like, okay, how it looked to me was just like, ah, they're saving that money to find the spots. They're filling up the holes. Packers are more like, we want to reward our guys. Like, if that makes sense. It's kind of like they're, there may be a step behind the chiefs or going like, oh, shit, we really dug herself in a ditch a little bit right here with how much, how much money we're spent to owning a couple of guys. I think on the Packers side is that, no, we have this money. But spread it out. Let's find a little more role player types because

we have these good players all around across the board. That's how I look at it. I don't know. that might be kind of nothing. I think that makes sense. And they are handing out. I mean, they've rewarded some of those guys, right? Now,

Russell Douglas is back because of the money that they freed up. Devondra Campbell was back. They were able to retain some of that court. The key distinction for me is that it seemed like by what they leaked out there and what the agents for Devante Adams said, that the Packers were willing to match the money on Devante Adams. Because I think the Packers are more incentivized to stretch themselves financially and just say,

we know that we're blowing this thing up in some way in two to three years. We've committed to that because Rogers is 38 years old. So they're willing to match it financially based on everything that we've heard, which I think based on their timeline, the age of their quarterback and what their window looks like, that makes sense to me. It doesn't seem like the chiefs are willing to go to that place because they have a 26-year-old superstar quarterback. They can't be thinking in those two, three-year window terms because they have an obligation to kind of to be competitive every single year that they have homes.

So when you look at them spreading everything out, this allows them to retool the roster on the fly. And I think that's the key distinction for me between the two situations, even if in the end, it looks almost identical, right? You have two draft picks that you get back, two high-end ones. You have the cap space that's freed up. And now your draft plan this year may be dictated by the need that you've just created for yourself at wide receiver.

Yeah, Packers feels, I don't want to say an all-in, but close to it because they just get rid of the receiver, though, but it kind of feels like that. I think that's so good is that the Packers with, they know what the end game is with Rogers. It's retirement. And I think they were willing to see out that end game. I think they were willing to see that through with the Adams money and it just didn't work out that way. And I think right now what the Chiefs are doing, they're going like, let's keep as many paths open as we can. Let's not lock into this and ruin a couple years because we did it this way and we have a 30-second rank defense. or we have, you know, other patches that we can't figure out because we have no means to do it, no assets to do it, no resources to do it.

So I think that's kind of what is. The Chiefs feels more like a reload or revamp, you know, a band, maybe with a new album, changing a change in a couple things, maybe a new producer. You know, they got, what's his face? The guy from Def Jam back there, the guy that did the BC Boys album. But it's like, all that stuff is, that's what it feels like that. And the Packers one's like, no, we already know what we are. Okay, all right, gather every chip we can. And let's shove that right thing, that thing right in the middle.

All right. So are there receivers at 29 and 30, which your chiefs have 29 and 30 now, that you think fit not only what the chiefs have been, but where they might be going? Because that distinction to me is fascinating. What they were with Tyree Kill and now what they will be in a post-Tiree Kill world, where is the gap between those two things? and the receivers that they choose in this moment, what sort of clues will we be able to take from that? If they go sign MBS, for example, right, who's taking a visit there today,

they're still trying to do something similar. We need that speed element to the guys that we're going to go get. If they draft James and Williams from Alabama in the first round, even with the ACL, that gives you another indication. But if they have juju now in the slot and they go a different direction with that guy, what does that say about what we can expect from their offense? similar to the breadcrumbs that they laid down last off season when they got all these gap scheme offensive linemen.

What sort of breadcrumbs are we going to be able to pick up by what sort of receivers they now chase? Because it seems like they're going to have to go get at least one here in the next month or half or so. What's good for them is they're right in that range where all these receivers are kind of stacked. Last year's receiver class, I keep saying how loaded the class is. It's in those day two guys, those late first kind of picks 25 through 60. maybe longer to that 25 through 70 like 75 there's a lot of guys in that kind of range at the receiver position so it makes sense and I love the breadcrumbs things because it's it's telling the juju thing they're going to get juju to act like a tight end because Travis Kelsey is their extra receiver

like it's kind of funny how they inverse their roles a little bit and if they get mvs mvs is a speed guy but he's he's bigger than i think people realize and he's also a better blocker than people realize you had to be in that in green bank like if you weren't you you weren't You have to be 205 and willing to fit up on duo if you want to, unless you're Devante Adams. And I think a part of me is that philosophical change is I think maybe less RPO's, maybe more traditional run-pass splits. And now they, instead of those receivers just running out routes and hitch routes and stick routes over and over and over. No, you have to fit up on a safety. You have to fit up on a on a slot, fit up on a linebacker.

So now maybe that's maybe that's the inkling that they're showing. They went to 12 personnel more last year, some some necessities, some just what they were going. through last year, maybe they're saying, we need more of those bigger bodies on the outside. We need a traditional Z and X as opposed to a speeder, speed guy. Having said that, having said that, what's so fun about having a guy like Patrick Mahomes is I want to see every receiver possible with him because I just want to see. This is a bet on him. Yes.

Right? I mean, with the Packers, again, it feels like they were willing to do what they needed to do financially to keep Devante because that was the best case scenario and they know what their window is. This is a bet on Patrick Mahomes. Yes. This is saying that we think we can, if we take multiple. dice rolls at the position on rookie contract guys.

Whatever we're going to get for $2 million and the gap between that and Tyree kill at 20, Mahomes would be able to make up for that and we'll be able to spread that money around. They're betting on the 30% booster. It's like what the Rams do, not really because I think the Chiefs will draft a guy, but with the Rams do with Aaron Donald. Just, hey, let's rotate the pass rusher with them. And just get a guy on the cheap. We don't have to, you know, splurge.

I think they will splurge. But at the end of this, at the end of this first round or even at pick 50, I mean, there's ton of guys. I don't think, Alave, I don't think we'll be there. I would love him so much with just about anybody. Jameson Williams, like you brought up, he has an ACL, but he is a legit speed guy. I, I talked about in the show before, compared him to Sean Jackson, because he has more football player to him than I originally gave him credit for. He's not just a true speed guy. He can run routes. He can tempo stuff. He can throttle his shit. He's a good fun player. Draft him at 30 and give NVS a one year $10 million dollar deal. Yep. And redshirted him. Yep.

Jahan Dotson from Penn State. I would freaking love. He might go at the the first early second that's right in his range a guy more on those early mid-second is kalil shakira at boisey state i would freaking love this guy in kansas city he just name all the receivers you'd love all the receivers i i i there's so many guys i want to see nate's face right now he just like overwhelmed in all the possibility i know i just see my list i just see my list Shakira be amazing he's got returnability he's an inside and out guy great route runner oh man but all these guys that's like you said it's a bet on my homes they're saying he's going to add that 30% boost

to whoever the hell we put in there. And guess what? When you're paying your guy $40 million a year, that's what you need. That's the exact calculus that you have to make. Is it all right? We know we can't pay everyone. We can't get all of these expensive guys at all of these positions anymore when we have a quarterback on a veteran contract.

But that guy is worth the veteran contract because he lifts everyone else around him. Mahomes at whatever price they're paying him, he's worth $50,000. 50% more than that in a vacuum, like 100%. But you have to make concessions and you have to compromise in certain areas when you start paying your guy like this. And we're seeing that in practice, plain as day in this situation. Yep. You're the surplus that you get out of the homes, I guess, is a way to look at it. The surplus is what you're making up elsewhere.

Say he's worth $20 million more than what he is. Okay. You better make it $20 million worth of receivers. You know, basically that's exactly what this is, by the way. That's $22 million. to a receiver contract, to a rookie contract. It's a $20 million gap. That's what it is.

It's like, hey, you're making that up and you better do it. That's what they're betting on. And I like the bet. I do. It makes total sense. I want to give a one liner. I like what the chiefs did. I really do.

I like the reloading. I like this. I like not just going, no, we can't change anything. They're trying to find a way to get better elsewhere as well as strike. I liked it. They revamped the whole team. They reloaded and they have the home still. And they have the line to still have Andy Reid.

You got to do this every once in a while. You have to evolve. You have to be different iterations of your team over the lifespan of a quarterback's career. It's inevitable. You're going to hit this moment and you have to make sure that you're extracting value when you hit those moments. The Patriots, it's such a good job of it. And I think this is just the first iteration of it and the first example of it with the Chiefs. I want to talk about this move and kind of the shadow of everything else that's happened this offseason.

I want to say, I want to ask you this, though, do you think, that the transition that the Chief's offense had taken and that the way that teams started to play against them, do you think that Tyree Kill was less valuable in whatever the current situation and makeup of their offense against NFL defenses is that he might have been two or three years ago? Do you think that the reaction from opposing defenses makes him more expendable? I do. I do.

I looking at it last year when I saw how the defenses were playing the Chiefs. I was like, just take the freaking top off. Just bombs away, baby. Just take the top off. Put Tyreek on a go ball. Put Tyreek on a post. But defense is actually playing for that. And it's not that Tyreek is, you know, lesser play or anything like that.

But now they're, they're on to their shit. You can't keep running all those deep sail routes, those deep overrouts. We're going to cut it. Like they just, they took away their ace in a hole, which was all those overrouts. Like they just won after another. That's what teams, that's what they're running on teams for years and years. And I think how they looked at it was we can scrounge up. It's the money ball thing. How are we going to make, how are we going to find all these

runs that they generated? Okay, well, just have Nicole Hardman run that those go routes and those post routes. You can have a space creator. You can find that. Yes. And they already have one on the roster that runs a four, three, you know, I think that's how they're looking at. They're like, we can figure that out. We've talked about how speed guys can kind of just be a role player. Tiger Hill is not a role player. Don't give you wrong. He's fantastic more than a speed. Yes. But I think they, I'm not saying he's not valuable anymore, but is his value muted based on some of the reactions that teams have had against that just a hair because they took away that that crazy deep ball stuff that we saw originally the first year of my home starting and the second year of my

home starting i think defenses got smarter about it they they're trying they basically randy mossed like how defense is trying to do the randy moss but tyreek is still good very good underneath and on yak stuff so i mean that we'll get to we'll get to the sec yes but yes i do think maybe about 5% 10% yes that they nerfed him and that 5% matters when you're making decisions like yes so i will say even if based on the way the chess board looks, how they can get value out of it, the things they needed to do to kind of maintain their team and rebuild on the fly, I understand all that. They're still worse in 2022.

And when you look at other teams around the AFC, that could be a problem. Even in their division, look at what teams are doing. I think it's telling that the Raiders brought in their version of this trade and the chief sent there as a way. Even if those two moves independently are beneficial to those teams are understandable for those teams. The Raiders got a lot better over the last two weeks. The Broncos got a shitload better over the last couple weeks. The Chargers continue to get better.

The bills are going on signing Von Miller and bringing everybody back. I mean, teams are loading up. So in the grand scheme in the long term makes perfect sense. But in the short term, they're going to need to compete with some teams that are doing the opposite in terms of mindset. right now. We just said the Rogers and the Packers, they're on like their own three, four year plan. This is the chiefs are on their own version, but, but they had to take a step back before they could take that step forward. I think that's, that's kind of how they went about it. All right. Let's talk about this move for the dolphins. My first thought, I'm thinking about this.

Holy shit, Jay and Wadle and Tyree Kill are going to be on the same offense. Oh, my God. It's so fast. That was everyone's comparison for Waddle coming out. Yes. This is our new, this is the, this is Zumer, you know, Tyreek Hill. Like it's, yeah, I mean, yack, yak, yak. That's what they're going for. It's, I'm very curious what you, you're going to say about it. But it's, it's super interesting what they're doing here. And I think they're just cranking everything up to 11 of what they had. So I think the natural reaction is to kind of filter this through what we understand from the Niners offense over the last couple of years. And when you think about it in those terms, it's immensely fun because you just think about all the moving pieces.

right how when you're where you can align guys think about all the crazy or motion we're going to see from those two guys how much communication they're going to require and force on opposing defenses i mean that part of it is undeniably exciting and then you combine that with some of the other moves that they've made i mean because siki even if he's kind of a wide receiver he still runs a four five i mean the guy's got a ton of juice to him yep Rahim mostert we've seen what that guy's like coming out of the shoot chase Edmonds has some pop to him. They have a lot of guys now on that offense.

When you get them the ball in any sort of situation, they can do damage against you. It felt like a speed version of what the 4-9, the Swiss Army knife offense that the 4-9ers have done the last couple years with Debo and IU. There's this kind of a power version, right? Yeah. The offense is kind of a speed version. This is the sleek version. That's the Terminator 1, you know, T-100, Arnold Schwarzenegger. And then this one is Terminator 2, T-1,000.

and the sleek shape shifting version. But this is, I mean, it's a souped up speedy version. That's what they're going for. It's, it's insane. It's like a lot of these kind of what I used to think of as luxury guys, but they're not anymore because of how the league is now and what you can run on offense. And it's like, it's cool. And I mean, even signing Alec Ingo, go badgers, but like even signing him,

he's a versatile guy. They, Gruden would have him run sail routes from the fullback spot. Like they, he can run those routes. So now they're getting their own version of juice check. They're getting like, you know, and they're getting their own tool, speed guys on the outside. Gisicki is not kennel, especially in a run game or anything like that. But he's still a versatile guy that you can move around the formation. That's what he brings to the table, even if he is a glorified receiver.

But it's interesting. But in this type of offense, I think that those blurred lines are fine. They embrace those blurred lines. Yep. Yep. And just crank it up. And now it's Ron Armstead's in the fold here. Yeah.

I mean, for five years, $75 million, $44 million guaranteed. That's an injury thing to me. Yeah. I mean, but it didn't stop the Jags from giving sure for market setting deal. So him coming in at $15 million when you have guys at the top of the market making 23, and even beyond the top of the market guys, he got the Donovan Smith money. Yeah.

And for somebody with top three upside of the position, that is a win for the dolphins, even if you're concerned about the injury stuff. And my favorite part of the arms that's part of this, right? They bring in Connor Williams, so stopgap starter at one of those guard spots. now you have a potential top-tier left tackle. You also have a culture setter in your offensive line room. I remember just talking to Mitch in the past about what it was like to get to Cleveland as a rookie and having Joe Thomas there. And what that is for you as a young player.

The ultimate professional. And I've had conversations with Toronto Armstead in the past. I've heard so many stories about Toronto Armstead. just unbelievably good presence, smart guy, really thinks about the game in a thought out, kind of layered way.

It just will be such a resource for the guys in that room. We talk about how you establish culture on an NFL team. That's how you do it. And obviously, injuries may be the difference between those two guys.

But look at what Andrew Whitworth was for the rest when Sean McVeigh got there. Not just a presence at left. tackle, but somebody who helped change the entire feeling and climate of that organization, the way the people talked to each other, the way that it felt in that building. That's what a guy like Taran Armstead can give you beyond him being one of the best left tackles in football when he's healthy. Yeah.

You know what, it's a line we throw away too much, but it's a winning culture. Armstrongstead comes from a winning franchise. He knows what the day to day is like. And it was one of the reasons it was a winning franchise. He's not just a, yeah, some role guy. That's sometimes when you sign these big market free agents that come from these shit teams or these kind of like, they're like, oh, they're the empty box score stack guys, you know, that pad their stats a little bit, not all the time. But that's the scary part. It's like, okay, they get into a winning franchise.

Can they handle it? Do they know what that pressure is like? Is do they have that disease of, oh, no, I want mine. We're winning. And I want to make sure it's all on me. It's like, but Armstead comes offensive line, usually they have this mindset anyway. Because that's their job. but is having that mindset of going like, no, it's day in, day out.

Hey, week 12. Hey, we're going. We're going. Hey, stay in for that extra half hour. Get in the iced up. The good players, the great players, they're wired differently, but also just being consistent. That's what being in the NFL is or being a professional athlete.

It's just consistency. And yes, Armstead has some injury stuff, but it's more the day to day of leading, of taking notes, watching film. You can go and anyone can have one good day and go, oh, I took a four pages full of notes. but can you go in when you just lost three straight and said Wednesday and you know it's going to be a longer practice and it's like there you are listening to first and second down install and nope that's what a guy like armstead does these kind of like winning culture vets that go but that's what you're paying for too and they didn't really have to pay a premium for it so I mean like that's a win that's a win all around so you look at it and obviously I mean when I'm thinking about this offense I'm thinking about horizontal stretch I'm thinking about yak opportunities and it's that's not even an indictment of two a It's more about what we've seen from the Niners, right? I mean, that team created yards after catch opportunities better than any other team in the league over the last five years since Shanahan got there. Consistently, if you look at, like, I mean, Debo was, I think, top three in the league and expected yak per reception.

I think Brandon Ayuk was fourth. So, I mean, those guys are-clers glances. They did such a good job of creating that space. And now they have guys who can take advantage of those opportunities. Yep. You'd hope that they can push the ball down the field more effectively now with better pass. protection. So everything opens up. Now you have that horizontal stretch because of the guys you have in the roster and they can also give you that vertical stretch to create even more space for those

guys to operate. So that's the ideal world is that this allows a version of Tua to start to exist and they can attack defenses in a way they couldn't because of the athletic ability and the explosiveness of their skill position players and the quality of their offensive linemen. Yeah. I don't care about the Tua part of this. I was waiting for this part of it. I don't see. I think a lot of people are looking at this and saying, Tua is out of excuses now.

I don't. For life after Tua. I 100% agree. I think that the Teddy Bridgewater signing, I don't think you give Teddy Bridgewater $6 million. If you're like, oh, we're all in on this guy. Let's build around him.

That is not the message I take from this. I don't either. I think a lot of these moves smell like life after Tua moves. I don't know. That's what it looks to me. And just real quick, just asking those ways that they sign Armstead, Connor Williams is whatever. And, you know, they still maybe need a little more help on the O line. What the Shanahan offense does, we talk about giving like training wheels to a quarterback.

It helps off the offense align so much too because it gets guys on the move. It gets guys naked, play actions, help with tight ends, motion. Just it helps. It really boosts their floor a little bit. I think that's the understated thing about with McDaniel going there. It's like, yes, they got Armstead. Okay, it's going to help out everybody else along with that. And I agree with you.

I think this is even it matches what Teddy does well anyways. Teddy's a great underneath thrower. He can throw the shit out of some slants. Like he is, that is what he operates quickly and he gets a ball out of his hands. That's what Tay does well. Does this sound like a roster that really benefit from that? It really does. That synergy makes a lot of sense.

And I agree with you. It sounds like this, a lot of these moves are kind of like, yeah, this is good for two of it. But it's like it's not bad for Teddy either. It's not bad for what could be there next year. comes next. So you look at what they had to give up to go get Tyree Kill. It does not include either of their 2023 first round picks.

This is a team that if the opportunity presents itself next year has the flexibility to go do something. Is it trading up in the draft to go get one of the quarterbacks who will be available? You have two first round picks in what is supposed to be a pretty good quarterback draft. Even beyond that, this is why Capspace is nice. it's not to sign free agents necessarily. It's to be able to go do something like this with the Hill thing. And they have a bunch of it next year. If they want to reset this entire franchise from what the vision was under Flores,

they can move on from Byron Jones or Xavier Howard or both next off season. So your big ticket players in that situation are really Armstead, Tyree Kill, and a lot of flexibility otherwise. If they want to go, let's say Kyler, let's say that completely unravels. Yep. In Arizona. Who knows? This one's a little bit further off.

Lamar Jackson does not have a contract next year. Okay? I mean, who know? So much crazy shit happens every single year. What those two first round picks and some financial wiggle room does for you, it allows you a pivot point. That's what it gives you. So now you have this team where we feel pretty good.

We got a left tackle. We got some really explosive pass catchers. and now what can we go do if Tua isn't the guy to find the quarterback who can tie this whole thing together. And I'm not trying to be pessimistic or down on Tua. I don't believe he's the guy. I just don't. But also, this staff has no connection to him whatsoever. They have no obligation to keep following it down this road if they don't think that's in their best interest and they don't think they can upgrade elsewhere.

And this just happens to be a team with the resources to potentially find that upgrade. in a way that other franchises don't have next spring. Yeah. I mean, it's so, so crazy what this league is doing now and what these guys, all this player movement stuff, because last year the Stafford trade came out nowhere. And I know they don't have assets to make a trade like that, but you don't know what guys are going to become available week and week out now. It's a, it's a whole new world to navigate.

And I completely agree with you. It's having these assets like cap space and picks, it's just, it's just bullets in the chamber. That's all it is. It's like, oh, we can spend it this way. Oh, we can shoot it that. way. We can shoot it that way. That's all you're, that's all you're accumulating. It's giving you what you want to be able to do to go down whatever path you want to do. And that's kind of what the chiefs did on the other side was going, hey, now we got $20 million and a whole bunch of picks. You don't want to be backed into a corner. You don't want your roster to look a certain way because you've painted yourself into that situation. Like the Falcons the last couple of years under Dan Quinn and Thomas Dimitrov, that's kind of what happened to them. They're like, this is our roster. And all we have is our picks. That's it to re up to re up a regroup or go to the next level. I think their offense could be fine with two of this year. I think that they have built a machine that he actually could run fairly well based on his skill set.

But I just, we talk about this all the time. What is your superpower? He doesn't have one, in my opinion. Even if you think he could be pretty good running this offense, and they could be fine. I mean, if this goes well with McDaniel, they have the infrastructure now to be a decent offense. But I just don't think he has that superpower. And I think at this time next year, it would be underwent. understandable for me if the dolphins were looking for a guy who had one and they now have the

means to go find one and potentially the sort of environment that would coax one their way. That's important now. We've seen this how many different times where the Broncos just did this. The Browns in a way just did this. Where you want it to be cozy where for that for that quarterback when he, if he comes available. And that could be a scenario where Miami's sitting there next spring being like, listen, we got a top three left tackle look at the receiving weapons that we have look at how fun our offenses look at what we were last year why wouldn't you want to come play in this and now i think they've set themselves up for that pretty well yeah i mean it wouldn't be tasty well that's what uh this is completely different i mean that's another one actually matt ryan got traded um you know like that's that's like you never know what guys could be available but it's when all these players now because they they have more saying this when he like look at just like russell probably did with the br Broncos.

That looks pretty, pretty good. Which decent foresight from George Payton signing those guys to extensions, even if he didn't have the guy. Typically, I'd be like, I don't know about that. But I can understand that thought process when you think some of these guys might be hovering around. Yeah. It kind of seems there's like three speeds.

It's like full on rebuild. Give yourself room to revamp as the other one or you're fucking all in. Like it kind of seems like those are your, those are the three lanes that these teams are trying to get into and burging monthly. it seems like going from one lane to the other. But yeah, I think they gave us up rooms this next year's quarterback class. I mean, there's apparently CJ Stroud from Ohio State who doesn't even come out until next year is already getting talked about like because he had a pro day today at Ohio State, which is hilarious to me. I know it cracks me up to no end.

This is the guy. It's like, oh my God, we got to wait a whole other year before we got to see some more film on this guy, guys. I want out of pro day coverage. It's amazing, dude. I want off down. I want no more runs left and flip it and throw it 60 yards the other way. I want no more of those. Like I hate it.

I hate it. Like, uh, it's, it's not real. But, but, but if you're looking at that next year's class, that's already one way to go about it. That's what having picks helps. Like you say, you're having juice. You're having value or assets to go whatever path you want. But then on top of it, yeah, now you got cap flexibility.

You can do it go the other way if you want to get a vet. It's, it's so interesting, man. It's like, it's crazy. They were saying that it might be a crazy off season, but this is they've, they up to a whole new level. I mean, it was, it was, it's ridiculous. I want to get into that. Before we do that, real quick, I want to explore the unrealized timeline of Tyree Kill going to the Jets. Because that was the other team that had an offer that the chiefs had apparently accepted.

Tyree Kill, I guess, has a no trade clause according to Albert Breer. How many players have no trade clauses? I wish I knew who they all were. This would make things a lot easier. The cap needs to add that. Anyway, the Jets would have given up 35, 38, and 69 in this draft and they would have gotten 103 back. If you look at the over-the-cap chart, that is fairly negligible value between 1-3 and 69. It's essentially like a seventh-round pick because you're moving just down into the third round. So you're really going to only two high-level assets, none of which are the top-10 picks that the Jets have in this draft to go get Tyree Kill. If they had pulled that off and now you're looking at a team with Tyree Kill, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Uzama, Tyler Conklin, Fant-Becton, AVT, and Tomlinson on the offensive line, and still having two top-10 picks, combined with all the holes they filled on defense this year.

Pretty good offseason from Joe Douglas if he makes that happen. Oh, my God. I know. It's still a pretty good off season. But yeah, that would have been the, yeah, that would have been the spiking the ball in the end zone kind of thing. That was, when they, when they popped that up, I thought I missed a pick when it said 35, 38, 69. I thought it was like five and 38 and, you know, 69. But no, it shocked me when I saw that as well.

That would have been amazing. If they could pull that off at first, I was like, ah, just draft a guy. If you really need a receiver, just draft a guy. You got a couple nice pieces. But if that was what they were giving up, I totally make sense. And we say, hey, there's no more excuses for Tua. Then it would become a whole conversation. There's no more excuses for Zach Wilson in a second year.

It's given a little bit of a chance. But it'd been, that would have been insane. That would have been exactly. That would have been a rebuild done right or a reloading done right is if the Jets did that the right way. I want to say this. And this is not an indictment of Tua or Zach Wilson. We said this about the Devont-A-Adams train when it happened when I was talking to Sando last week.

and it's the same thing here. The trade that the dolphins made for Tyree Kill, in order to extract value from that trade, he has to be the best receiver in the NFL. Yes. I think there's a very good chance. He will no longer be an all-pro receiver on the dolphins in these circumstances

with the quarterback that they have now. And even if they had a better quarterback, it's not good. The history of this is a minefield of receivers trading teams and so rarely does this work out where you have a guy creeping toward 30 change teams and especially

when it's a guy like Devante Adams or a guy like Tyrie Kill who was used perfectly in their old offense they were allowed to be the best version of themselves for so many different reasons the connection that Rogers had with Adams even if you like Derek Carr

that's never coming back that level of rapport is going to be really really difficult to replicate and Tyree Kill was in the perfect circumstances for him to become the player that he was. Even if you're bullish on the Dolphins coaching staff, even if you think they'll do some cool stuff with him, what his partnership with Patrick Mahomes looked like is not going to be replicable anywhere else. So there's a chance that Tyree Kill gets a huge market-setting deal. Congratulations, but it never gets better than what it was over the last few years with Kansas City.

I just think that's important to remember as we talk about this. Synergy matters. It does. It's with these guys and circumstances and everything. No, I completely agree. That gets back to my receiver value thing is sometimes it's a situation, sometimes it's scheme, sometimes it's the quarterback you're playing with, but a lot affects that position negatively and positively.

So that's exactly right. I agree with you. I think Tyree Hill still be a good player, obviously, but it's kind of, yeah, neutered a little bit, nerfed a little bit. So I want to talk about why this could potentially have been the craziest offseason that we've ever seen. Why is this happening? And one of the things that I had written down is connected to something that you just said. I think the availability of receiver talent in this draft and essentially in every draft we're going to have for however long

because of the way the game has changed, it's impossible for that to not affect the way that some of these moves have happened. Now that the Packers have an extra first and an extra second, I guarantee you that Brian Goonkoots is sitting there saying, I could find a guy. We could find a receiver at that stage for, again, $20 million a year less than we'd have to pay DeVante Adams or Tyree Kill. So you're looking at a first round talent at receiver and two pretty high-level starters for the same price as one wide receiver.

It doesn't matter who that receiver is. You have to think about that. Absolutely. There's a surplus at the position. There is. Yes. One of my favorite talks that you and I ever had, you asked, you're like, oh, is there a reason for more pass catchers? It's like, well, there's more quarterbacks throwing the ball.

So seven-on-seven, well, we need guys to catch those balls. So it was just an obvious upgrade. It became a passing league now in the NFL, but all levels of football. I mean, like you look in Texas high school football, those guys are winged it. It's left and right. I remember a couple years ago talking to Josh Gaddis, who was the assistant, was the office quarter of Michigan last year, won the Broil's Award as the top assistant in college football last season. He's now at Miami.

And he's bounced around a decent amount. He's coached some really high-level NFL players. He was at Penn State when Chris Godwin was there. Then he was at Alabama and coached some of these receivers. We were talking about Jerry Judy. And he was talking about how the amount of times that Jerry Judy, by the time he arrived in Tuscaloosa, had had to sort through coverage structures based on how many routes he'd – it's not just catching the ball.

It's not just the mechanics of the people. position. He's had to identify coverage in seven on seven in real time football hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of times. And understanding how to attack that and where the help is coming from, all that stuff, that level of knowledge has never been as deep or nuanced for young players as it is right now. So you have guys that walk in and not only have they run a million more routes and caught a million more balls, their understanding spatially of the position has never been on this level. So when you have that level of refinement from a spot that typically needed years in the NFL

to get there, it's just a different calculus for where you can look for some of these guys, in my opinion. It used to be the third year breakout. Yes. That was always the recent thing. The third year breakout. You got to look at looking for the third year breakout for these guys. And now it's, hey, it's, it's become like a plug and play position now for rookies.

If you're drafted in those top 60 picks, yeah, you're playing. You're playing 40, 50 stats. Think about what Jabar Chase and Justin Jefferson have done. I mean, it's once a year now it seems like there's one of these guys. I know. And it's there's a lot like last year there. I still remember I went to Bleacher for it. And I was like, our first meeting.

I was like, okay, I got receivers. I'm a tough grader on receivers. And I watched those first four guys, Rashad Bateman, Waddle, DeVante Smith and Chase. I was like, these guys are really freaking good. It's like, these guys can like step in and play. They're like beating press. They're like working from the slot. They're running level routes at all three levels.

It used to be you're in 21, 12 personnel and you're running just outside routes. And it's like the same tree that everybody ran. And you might only get the ball four times a game. It looked like Wisconsin's offense is what I'm saying. But now now everybody is like, no, let's spread it out, chuck it around. The warmups, Mike Leach, when he was at Tech at Texas Tech, this is more about quarterbacks, but it affects the receivers and tight ends and runbacks, too. He would have all five quarterbacks on the roster spread out to throw one of the routes of one of the

eligibles. And I know that doesn't sound crazy or anything. At the time it was. And really, it was building up reps, reps for the quarterbacks because it's just another rep you're getting. Another rep, another rep, another rep. Same with the ball catchers. Same with the past catchers. Now they're getting that extra rep, extra rep, extra rep, extra rep to work press at practice, extra work, all those little things.

They get so many more opportunities to do it that even 15, 10 years ago when I was in college, like 12 years ago that it was just becoming a newer thing now we're seeing the kind of the after effect of that happening the progression of this which is really really cool and the spread isn't new right no spread is not new at all but 10 years ago you had NFL coaches that would bitch about it yeah would complain about what the spread offense was doing to the NFL now those walls have fallen down embrace it it there is a total embrace you have so many newer younger offensive coaches coming in you have Brian dable going from being the offensive coordinator at Alabama to being the offensive coordinator for the bills and now the head coach

of the Giants. I think you have so many more coaches who are looking at this and saying, well, what does he do well? How can I take advantage of that? Which is the essence of good coaching. But I think the quality of offensive coaching in the NFL has gotten to a place where now you have more young receivers who are useful players. They're guys that you can just play right away. And that means when a guy's coming in and asking for mid-level quarterback money as a receiver, it's easier as Brett Veach to sit there and say, I can't justify this. Like, as I'm looking at everything else and our resources

and where we have to use them, I just can't do this. And that's the contracts are what's driving this, right? I texted a GM today and I was like, why do you think there's been so much movement this spring compared to others? And he just says, it's money. I mean, it's guys asking for these sorts of deals,

and that's how it happened with Adams and with Hill. And there are other guys that it's contract-driven as to why there's been a decent amount of movement. So I think that's part of it. The other thing, I really do believe that people are looking around at what the Rams did and just deciding that you don't have to wait for this shit to come to you anymore. It's when teams are going to be this aggressive, you look at what the Broncos did to go get

Russell Wilson. To me, that's an extension of the thought process that led the Rams to trade for Matthew Stafford. You need to go get these guys. You need to go get these players. and you don't have to be precious about your draft picks anymore. I think there's so many different factors, but I think as they all stack up,

and then there are some things that are just completely unique, right? The Deshawn Watson situation, that is just an entirely different thing. And then you have the ripple effects of that. Matt Ryan isn't on the Colts right now unless the Deshawn Watson trade happens. So it's coming from a bunch of different directions, but I do think that combined,

there are tangible explanations for why the last two weeks have looked how they've looked. Yeah. I think for years and years and years and years and years, as people wanted to build up the franchise, build up to organization and, you know, the culture of all that. And I think now it's the youth movement, youth movement, so weird to say for coaches that are in their 40s. But these younger coaches is that and GMs too, it's a willingness. It's self-awareness. Everyone's online now. Everyone, there's more awareness of not only what the shit you're doing, but everyone else is doing. Now everyone, I can look up in two seconds, look up what

everyone's getting on the contract. Seven years ago, probably not. I mean, it was a out there, but maybe wasn't as good. You know, or 10 years ago, you couldn't do that. So I think these guys are so much more aware, not just players, but the personnel members. And I also think the coaches as well. And so I think it's just that aggressiveness. I think exactly what you're saying with the Rams is understanding.

It's like we love to have a five-year plan that goes exactly how we want to go. Now it's getting back to what we said, what the chiefs are trying to do and have flexibility and what the dolphins have done with their picks and their cap room is at any time you want to, now you can strike. Now it's like, oh, shit. this is a window opportunity. Go. All right, go.

Plant your foot and hit the hole. And I think that's what teams are now realizing. It's just having that availability and understanding when to strike and just eating, you know, eating your vegetables until you hit that point. And then you can have your sugar and your cake and have that, have fun with that. Well,

there are also teams that are just at different steps financially, right? So the Packers and the Chiefs, their quarterbacks are on monster extensions. They're on $45, $50 million a year monster extensions. I know the cap hits look different than that. But that puts you in a position where you're going to, have to make some tough choices. The Dolphins and the Raiders are not in that position. When you haven't gotten to that point with your quarterback, you have reason to be aggressive

to support the quarterback who maybe isn't as good as those guys or to take advantage of this limited window that you have. Justin Herbert is on the most valuable contract in the NFL. And the Chargers understand that. And they are saying, now is our time to go nuts. Now we can trade for Colee-Mack. We can go sign JC Jackson in that contract. We should push it all into the middle because this is our chance.

The Dolphins and the Raiders, Derek Carr is on a veteran contract. Derek Carr is making $19 million this year. That's it. $19 million. That is a small quarterback contract. So now you're in a position, yes. You're in a position to go make some moves with that deal. The dolphins are allocating $14 million to their quarterbacks this year with Tua and Teddy combined.

You're in a position to be aggressive. If you go get a rookie in next year's draft, you reset your financial clock again. Even if the Raiders signed Derek Carr to an extension, his cap hit in 2023 combined with what it is this year, is still going to be less than some of these other teams. So you're incentivized as one of those teams to say, we have to take advantage of this wiggle room that a team like the Packers and the Chiefs don't have. And I think if I'm making those trades, I think the Packers and the Chiefs come out ahead in both of those deals. That's how this stuff typically works. But I can understand the mindset from some of these other teams trying to take advantage of those franchises that just don't have the financial flexibility to keep some of these guys. The Raiders one, it makes sense, especially the arms race.

The Dolphins one is like I can get behind. I want to see what the fallout of it all is, as we all do. But at first with the Packers one happened with Devante Adams, I was like, what? And then I was like, that's the initial reaction. And then it's like, no, that actually makes a lot of sense. and how you have the flexibility to do these things and picks and money. It just gives you assets and assets are good.

It's harder to stomach for me though. With the window they have with Rogers, it's just harder stomach. I understand in a vacuum, if you just lay it out, you lay out the two scenarios. I wanted to take the second door, I can see it.

But it's still just, this is supposed to be it. Like that connection, what their offense was because of it, it's just harder. As a Packers fan, it would drive me insane. Even if I knew logically that it might be the better move.

Yes, yes. I know. It's a chief saying I'd be like, this is it. This is exactly what we should do in the situation. Especially with how the quarterback is and going like, hey, every two years, it's almost a reset. Yes. It's a revamp of what we have. Does this is working?

No, it's blow it up or what's moved, let's manipulate the pieces. So I think the chiefs of all these teams makes the most sense. Honestly, it does. It does. And I think that's what helps when you have an MVP level quarterback in his mid-20s and you have a lockdown for another seven years, eight years. So it makes a ton of sense for what they did. So it's fun.

It's fun to talk about because of how all. the ripple effects and just the fact that we're referencing bill o'brien trading dandre hopkins to the cardinals and all that is that just makes it so funny that we're reaching this point right now all right that's all we got i think it's just it's crazy i mean every every single day just for everyone knows robert called me this morning so the so the tweet came out like hey tyriek hill might be on the block i would say you call me what five 10 minutes after that yeah and you're like what's you doing today, buddy. And I was like, oh, wide open. Okay. All right, let's talk. All right. We'll see. But we had a pre-planned and then the news, they went to the dolphins and whatnot. But it was like,

it feels like it's a daily phone call now. I plan this shit weeks in advance. Yeah. Weeks in advance. It's such a fool's errand at this point. There's just no reason to. Should wake up, wait for the news to happen, and that'll be the show. But we do have what I think is going to be a really interesting one with Sheel that we're going to record or Friday. If you guys want to come back and check that out. Or we'll just wait for whatever insane happening there will be tomorrow morning, and we'll talk about that. In the meantime, if you guys could rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice, I would sincerely appreciate that.

Please subscribe to The Athletic. Theathletic.com slash football show. You can read about all of the moves that have happened. You can read our reaction to the Tyree Kill Trade. You can read Nate Taylor, our Chiefs writer on the fallout. Some of our national writers, Link Lindsay, Stephen Holder. A couple other people did a roundtable. I believe Shield wrote about it as well.

So no shortage of coverage on everything. that is happening around the NFL. Please go check that out if you do not have a subscription. For now, we will be back on Friday with Shield. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show.