The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Christian McCaffrey trade reaction

Episode Date: October 21, 2022

Well, well, well, the 49ers and Panthers sure spiced up Thursday night, didn't they? Robert Mays and Nate Tice react to the Christian McCaffrey/49ers trade on this special episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, Robert. Just a quick note here. We recorded a Christian McCaffrey trade reaction on our YouTube page last night and we were doing our Thursday night football recap. But we wanted to drop it into the feed as a podcast so more of you could hear it. I felt like this was a special case. So this is me and Nate breaking down the big Christian McCaffrey trade to the San Francisco 49ers. Enjoy. This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert May. joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tice. Nate, how you doing, buddy? Good. I thought we're going to be like cracking some Kevin White jokes, you know, Marco Wilson with a swan dive into the end zone. And also just a bomb, a shell-shocked kind of shell-shocking trade to end the night and lead us right into it. It was a good lead into this show. Fantastic timing. Typically, it's when we stop recording that stuff like this happens. Thankfully, it happened

right before we started recording. Christian McCaffrey traded to the San Francisco 49ers. My understanding, the bulk of the trade compensation coming in the 2023 draft. The way I saw it, it's a third round, a second round pick, a third, fourth, and a fourth in the 2023 draft for Christian McCaffrey. So immediately, before we get into compensation, Niners team building and running back accrual strategies, immediate reaction to how Christian McCaffrey fits in San Francisco. Oh, it's awesome.

It's going to be fun. It's just Swiss Army knives galore. Just every position, you do everything, punt, pass, kick, catch, a lot of booby miles kind of of guys. Like, that's what they'll build the whole offense out of it. But when you take a step back, you kind of realize the weight of this move and everything else that's happened in the macro sense. But just isn't it like schematic enjoyment of football?

it's going to be awesome. It's going to be super cool. But yeah, but there's other questions that go into this move. I'm so fascinated by how they're going to use those guys all together. When you think back on it, the last time I can remember Shanahan having a running back with this sort of receiving skill set in the moment was probably when he had Tevin Coleman in Atlanta. Remember when they were like line of Tevin Coleman up in the slot? And they were they were putting him at receiver all the time. And they really haven't had that guy in San Francisco. I assume they thought Jerich McKinnon could do some of that stuff for him when they

signed him way back when, but he was hurt for the majority of the time he was on the team. So they've really just been trying to piece together that running back spot with a guy who could simply run the ball semi-effectively. So they really haven't been experimenting with the guys who are nominally running backs. They've experimenting with the guys who are nominally receivers who they put at running back. So what it looks like going the other. direction, I'm curious what that could be in practice. That's a great call with the Kevin Coleman stuff because that, that was, that was some fun

stuff. Like the game I remember vividly in that 2016 season was they played the Broncos and they were getting into like three tight end looks. Yes. Like going empty and Kevin Coleman was just running slants on people against linebackers and it was awesome. It brings us back to this conversation that we were having earlier today, how back then in 2016, if you motioned Kevin Coleman out into the, into the slot, like it would

break people's brains. You could get every single bit of information you wanted to from a defense. So now we have Christian McCaffrey on the Niners, a Niners team that I think still figuring out the interior of their offensive line, if we're being kind, Trent Williams has been hurt a little bit. So I don't think we've come to understand what the 2022 Niners offense really can be. And now you're throwing Christian McCaffrey into that mix. Yeah.

I think it's worth exploring. how responsible this is. And what this says about the timeline that the Niners are on, the Niners just gave up more or less what the Rams gave up last year to trade for Von Miller, second round pick and a third round pick, plus a little bit more. McCaffrey's still under contract. He could still be there next year. The Rams made that move because in their minds, we're all in, baby.

Like, we're a Von Miller and OBJ away from potentially taking. in this thing over the top. And guess what? It happened. They won the Super Bowl in part because of what Von Miller was for them in the playoffs. Are the Niners so close to this thing? They're like, all right. If we get Christian McCaffrey, like this is it.

This is the move that's going to take us over the top. I don't want to dampen the enthusiasm about this too much because it is inherently fun, but I'm just a little bit confused, a little bit perplexed from the outside looking in. Like, what does this mean? Like, what do you think? you are if you're going out to make a move like this because that's hard for me to pin down. You would think they'd be gun shy a little bit after, okay, they traded everything for

Trey Lance. I mean, they don't even have a first round pick this year as well because of that. But also, you know, the injuries, the rash of injuries their team has had this year, you think they'd be like a little gun shy. Like the Rams were having some good injury luck last year, like more or less. And it's like, oh, okay, this might be our year. We got to strike while the iron's hot right now. So I don't know. I feel like they. they're just like they double down and triple down on what they are and they're just like yeah this is fond screw it let's do it we even talked about on our show earlier i mentioned how sometimes you then actually with the rams how skill guys can overcome o line woes so i think he's just say juice everybody up let's just get all these guys you know super serum soldiers on the outside and then we'll just figure out we'll mosh or offense aligned together and i'll scheme it up i'm i'm very curious like it's not responsible whatsoever this is so much draft capital for running backs over and over and over. And I'm all about like drafting a running back a year.

But it's like day three picks. These are third rounders he's given up over the years. And now he's given up more. But I don't know. I'm back and forth because I'm excited in two weeks to be going like, hey, do you see how that you see them see with Devo? Like, do you see like all those motions? On that level, of course it's going to be fun.

But you look at it. And I just said maybe part of the compensation and part of the thinking is that McCaffrey is under contract next year. He has an $11.8 million dollar base salary next season for next. So they have this rookie quarterback contract theoretically that they can kind of wield, but wielding it for a $12 million running back on top of the other extensions that they've handed out, we can argue whether that's a prudent decision. So you get back to what you just said about what they've spent on running backs.

Let's go on a journey together. Okay. 2017, Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch get to San Francisco. They must trade up in the fourth round for Joe Williams. It must happen after they gave McKinnon that contract. So they must do it. Joe Williams fizzles out. They pick him in the fourth round.

They trade a fifth round pick to go up to get him. Okay? We can continue this game. Joe Williams things happen. Joe Win things happens. We talked about the McKinnon contract. They went out and they got Tavenne Coleman at some point. They had all these guys that were undrafted, back of the roster guys that were crushing it for them like Rahim Moster.

In last year's draft. they trade up in the third round and give away a future fourth round pick to draft Trey Sermon, who is no longer on the roster. Who got outplayed by a six-rounder immediately. And then this year, they drafted Tierra Davis Price in the third round, and now they're trading three more draft picks next year to go get Christian McCaffrey. So if you add all this up, it's a third and a fourth for Sermon who doesn't play. It's a third for Tari and Davis Price, who they can.

clearly don't think is going to be in the mix for them anymore. And then it's three picks for Christian McCaffrey. So now you're talking about like half a dozen day two picks to build your running back room and then this is what you're left with. Again, it's going to be enjoyable in practice when we watch it. But we got to take the nuclear codes away from Kyle when it comes to the running backs here. That's exactly it. And it's the irony of it. There are, I guess, of course, this happened is that the other team end on this or trying to get on this trade. was the Rams. That makes a little bit more sense.

They're already so far going. It doesn't matter anymore. But it's so funny. It's like, again, you guys, like, what's what's with you guys are running back?

They're like skill guys. It's like, I don't know if they just, they, who they go after. They have a type. These guys fall apart as soon as they touch them. Like,

I don't know what it is. It's just funny that these two teams, Shanhan McVeyer are just like, oh yeah, another second round running back. Oh, no, we got to get a second third roundback.

That's what we give. It's not a first rounder. We're okay. But second and third, we just got to keep spending these top 100 picks on these guys. And it's just funny that they can't stick the landing ever because of just one reason or another. Slightly arguable that the Niners did have a little bit more ammo to work with with some of these moves. Over the last two years, they got a pair of third round picks for the Robert Sala hiring from the Jets. And then they got another third round pick because Martin Mayhew was one of their executives got hired as the GM of the Washington team.

And they got two picks for Mike McDaniel getting hired by the Dolphins. So even though they've traded away their picks that they own in the first, second, third, and fourth round this year, they do have two back of the third round picks. This is very Rams like. The Rams are also stumbling into these comp picks because that's how they try to justify it and build this thing. And that is where the Niners are now. But this is like what I would do in fantasy football. It's like, oh, well, I got a random second rounder by trading away Matthew Stafford two years ago.

It's free money. But I don't think that's how an NFL team should probably operate with their resources. When you list off the picks one after one, I just keep getting the picture of when Ricky Williams, the Saints traded for Ricky Williams in the draft. They just list off all the picks. I think they traded with Washington. It's just all the picks that Nor Orleans traded for Ricky Williams to move up. It was like their entire draft and next year's first rounder. that's what like was going through my head like just like

like every pick you're listing every player they're drafted that's what I was picturing was that type of like ESPN draft graphics so it's a lot it's a lot to take in because I just don't like I can never do that like it's just proven that this is not the way to do it and you would think that yes they're getting these defensive guys and they're getting guys that are stepping up that are laid around picks and I mean de Montre leonore and like who's a third day three pick is starting at nickel corner They're like getting hitting on these picks, but it's just such a hard way to live because that's an argument for why you should want more of them. Yes.

It's just a sunk cost. Like, or just like you just want to you're just giving yourself a little more ammo just room for error. That's what you're giving yourself. So it's just you're now. You're narrow. A fifth rounder can turn it to Hufonga. When that's happening so often, you want more of those bites of the apple.

Don't you think they want a line depth? Like just maybe a couple more bodies that are undrafted scrap heap types of guys. And it's like, I get it. You want to trust yourself as a schemer and a game planer. But it's like, why do you always want to try and play an expert mode? Like there's better, just better ways to accumulate and move this. And you would think after the Trey Lance move and an injury, like I said, that they would be a little gun shy. But it's like, no, they're just doubling down.

They're saying we'll figure it out at one point. Speaking of Trey Lance, that's another thing that I'm taking away from this. Now the onus on Trey Lance next year becomes immense. Like with you, you don't have any of these picks. So for you to take the next step, it is all on the quarterback that you made this move for. And we have seen him start four NFL games. Like it's, they are trying to thread a needle. And who knows if I would have to assume that there's a very good chance to Miko Ryan.

It's not the head coach there. Right. There is not the defensive coordinator there next season. So now, like, can you count on this sort of defensive excellence that you've had over the last. few years. Right. I mean, we, I like a lot of elements of this team, but I do think that putting it on expert mode is a great way to put it.

Like they have definitely up to the degree of difficulty here with some of the decisions that they've made. Like you said, the pressure on, the pressure on Trey Lance already felt because this defense was so good. You can kind of feel it on them to like, hey, you have to perform and not screw this whole thing up. And I mean, yeah, now it's just, I get it. The NFC is down.

It's not a great conference, you know, this year. And we watch the same is a lot of tonight. Right. And so now it's, okay, I can maybe say that. It's like, hey, this is our chance to really like push. Hey, like, hey, it's a one game season once we get into the playoffs. This gives us a chance, I guess. But you got, you got pay up at some point.

You know, the bills do at some point or you just get bitten the ass in other ways. I mean, we just talked about today with the Rams. And it's like, you thread the needle. And yes, you stuck the landing last year. But then it's, it wears you down over time just because you just don't have that leeway that you would want. I mean, yes, this is all kind of obvious arguments, but it's still like worth saying. This is the tradeoff literally of what you're doing right here. If you're trying to spin this in a, if you're trying to justify, if you're trying to rationalize it during the Niners, I do think that point about the NFC is how you could potentially get there.

They're getting a lot of these guys back. You know, we talked about it earlier today. They're getting Bruce of back. They're getting Trent Williams back. They're getting Jason Brett back. We'll see how long Traverius Ward is out. Jimmy Ward is going to be back. And so most of these.

guys, McClintia, hopefully he gets back relatively soon. There's a chance that they're pretty close to full strength or whatever their version of full strength is over the next two weeks. And you could be looking at the rest of the NFC and just say, if we get one or two more pieces of Christian McCaffrey, why can't we be the second best team in the NFC with how everything else is shaken out? I think that's a very, very dangerous way to approach this stuff. The Rams did it.

The Rams walk that tightrope all the way to a Lombardi trophy. But that's really hard to pull off. Most of the time, those rationalizations typically don't work out because winning Super Bowls is really difficult. It's like the like, yeah, a couple times I could think of these kind of all quasi all star teams was actually like the Dion 49ers when he came there for one year. And then also like, you know, but that was a signing and everything. But then I'm trying to just think.

And then the Rams, yeah, last year. It's just that it's hard. Like the bucks are homegrown. And that's what the Brady stuff. and his free agent, all that. I'm just trying to think these kind of new nucleuses of teams, nuclei. But it's, no, that's what, this is it nucleus or nuclei? I think nuclei sounds right.

Yeah, that's not a good. Not a science guy, but nuclei sounds right? Yeah, true, true. But English language, you help out with it. But, no, but that's what this team, like, I'm like, I don't want to dog it too much because it's just, I do want to dog it. But I don't want to dog it too much because I'm just so excited to watch it. Again, again, I know that's. terrible to say, but I just want to see what he does.

He doesn't really, we haven't seen Shanahan with too much of these high pedigree runoffacks that aren't his anointed high pedigree runoffbacks that he takes in the third round, but actual guys that we know can be stars. Actually, can we talk about like maybe the, with the panther side for a sec? Yes. This is awesome for them. Oh, my God. I mean, this is the best case scenario.

Yeah. Best case scenario to get three draft. Yes. I mean, and this, this is a team that traded away a pick to go. get Matt Corral, so they're already low on draft capital. It's just time. If you're the Panthers here, you're probably sitting there. You're looking at what next season could be with McCaffrey. So 19.5 million dollar cap hit for Christian McCaffrey next year for the Carolina Panthers. And trading him, I think, we'll see what kind of dead money they're looking at. I think it's

something around like 15 million. They restructured him. So it's a decent chunk. But they're still looking at. They save a million. They save a million next year. So they save a million dollars. and they get three draft picks. So that's not a bad outcome for Carolina because I can understand if you're looking at the DJ Moore contract and he's a 25-year-old wide receiver and you've already paid out the signing bonus. Okay, we want that. We want that guy as part of this. Brian Burns is a 25-year-old pass rusher with one year left on his deal. I don't think you should fire sale this thing because there is an argument to be made about creating a soft landing spot for whoever you hire as your head coach.

But McCaffrey is going to be 27 next year. He's had a lot of trouble staying healthy and he's really, really expensive. So I absolutely think this is a good chance for Carolina to potentially kickstart this thing. If they have the first overall pick next year, which they absolutely could. And you have an extra second, an extra third, an extra fourth. And you have what I think are some pieces in place, right? Like DJ Moore is a nice player in the right circumstances. We'll see what Aquano can be over time.

Moten has been a good right tackle for them in stages. They are not as bad as some of these other teams that stumble into the first overall pick. They've paid for it. They don't have as much financial flexibility as some other teams that bottom out. But I also think that this thing could get microwaved pretty fast if they get name your number one overall pick quarterback, the right head coach, and you get some of these other draft picks that you can start building this thing with. I totally agree. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because like with Burns, if they could figure that out, I mean, you already have a true pro bowl pass rusher, which is, you know, what you want to get. That's one of the building blocks usual teams want to get. But I think just that DJ Moore point is we, you and I've talked sometimes about like, I think it was with the Falcons mostly. And we're talking about just dropping a young quarterback into just such a bad situation. Perfect example. And now it's, okay, how we see he has a weapon? At least he has some pedigree on his offensive line. It's.

It's not just like, hey, go make us some plays out there. Now he has something to lean on where it's not just all him. I'm just the hypothetical because probably odds are they're taking one of these quarterbacks. Like it's stars are aligning if it worked out that way. So having a guy that he can lean on at those times, him being whatever quarterback they take, that helps so much. And it also just makes it attractive for head coaches of GMs. The stuff has become recruiting for these guys.

So, you know, it's from owners and just making sure if they, whatever, they do with the GM. But for a head coach, it's, hey, this is what we got. You got all this draft capital. We can go get your guy, your hand pointed, your handpicked quarterback, and you can just start from scratch with this. There's no one getting washed on to you and you're going like, well, I got coach this guy up. So I think that also just helps out too with their argument and just what their next step is as a franchise. It's so depressing to look at some of the other situations around the league that aren't the bears. Like even the giants, Andrew Thomas is legit. like Andrew Thomas is a star level left tackle.

They draft Evan Neal on the top. I can never remember who was picked where. Top seven, he was seventh pick. That's right. Seven. Yeah, top ten. Yeah, top ten. So you get two top ten tackles.

And even if your wide receiving core is not full of NFL players right now, whoever you drop in a quarterback next year potentially, they have two top ten tackles and one elite left tackle. The Falcons have Jake Matthews, who is a serviceable NFL left tackle. They have two top ten picks. at the receiving positions for whoever plays quarterback for them. Chris Lindstrom is there. Amazing.

McGarry is, we'll see what happens. They, you know, obviously they, they improved if your option, but if they. So I give him such backhand compliments by our article because I gave him one of the most approved tabs. And I was just like, he went from not even making a roster too. He's fine. Like that's put it off at tackle. That's what you want, man. So you have all of these teams that were supposed to be rebuilding.

It's supposed to be tearing it down. And they're all more. more hospitable places for a quarterback than what's happening in my hometown here. Oh, no. I mean, that's the path. And you look at the Bears, it's like, we got cat space and we got all our draft picks. And then that's all those lap tackles that become available in free agency. Go spend on one of those.

All right, guys, thank you so much for stopping by and listening to that. Really appreciate it. You can still go and check out the Thursday Night Football Recap on YouTube. I highly encourage you guys to do that if you have not. please subscribe to the YouTube channel. If you have not, you can be doing a lot more YouTube stuff even more than we are now over the course of the year. So now is the time to jump on that train. If you have not listened to our week seven preview, really fun show, did a deep dive on why we think defenses have caught up to offenses a little bit in 2022 and how that's led to some beautifully ugly football.

Let's call it that. We talked about Niners Chiefs, the return of Dak and Tua, a lot more stuff. So if you've not listened to that, really should go check. that out. In the meantime, please enjoy your weekend. We will be back on Sunday nights to recap week seven. Until that, I appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.