The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Conference Championship Sunday Recap: It's the Chiefs and Eagles for the Super Bowl...again

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

A season that presented us with so many possible new Super Bowl teams—the Lions! the Bills! the Ravens! the 14-win Vikings!—ended in an awfully familiar place. How did the Chiefs and Eagles win their respective conferences to advance to Super Bowl LIX? Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen recap Championship Sunday on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, a championship Sunday for the books. Bill's Chiefs, everything we could want it to be. We talked about it at the top of the show with me and Derek Klasm, but you got Josh and Allen with three minutes left, down by a field goal, trying to overcome the playoff demons against Patrick Mahomes on the road. That's the sort of moment you live for if you love this sport.

And the fact that we got that and we got a version of the AFC championship game that lived up to the billing, a lot of games in the AFC playoffs that lived up to the building. They were everything we could want. It was a fantastic moment. We dug into all of that. A Steve Spagnolo game, you know, just to tack on to his playoff legacy, what we got from Patrick Mahomes again, and the fact that the Chiefs are just unkillable at this point.

Speaking of unkillable, the Philadelphia Eagles are an absolute wagon when they are playing the way that they play today. They destroy the Washington football team in the NFC championship game. Monster Day from Saquan Barkley, arguably the best game that J-1 Hurts has played. all season and that defense brings it in a way that we have come to expect. So we broke down both the AFC and the NFC championship game from every single angle. Let's get to that conversation with Derek Klesson right now. Derek, first championship Sunday on the athletic football show.

How are you feeling over there? I feel fantastic. I mean, everything we build the AFC race between Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes up to be. I think it delivered over the past two weeks, so I am through the roof. I'm sitting there when they're down three, the bills, getting the ball back with three-ish minutes left. And there's really nothing more you could want from that moment. You have a guy on the road against Patrick Mahomes tasked with trying to slay the dragon in the biggest moment of his career, with the Chiefs trying to go to their third straight Super Bowl after winning the last two.

If you love football, if you have followed the sport for a long time, if you know the characters, you appreciate them, you appreciate their stories, how they've arrived at that moment. it is impossible to get more out of that specific sequence than we got. The problem is, when you're playing against Patrick Mahomes in the playoffs, you're not just playing against Patrick Mahomes. That's the story of this Chiefs team. You're playing against Andy Reid. We'll talk about some of that today.

And you're also playing against Steve Spagnolo. And in the biggest moment of the game, Spags goes deep into the bag, pulls out a corner blitz with the safety, makes Josh Allen throw it way before he wants to, ball falls incomplete. Chiefs still have to get a couple first downs, but they do manage to do it. And now they're headed to their third straight Super Bowl and they're trying to be the first team ever to win three in a row. That Spaggs moment is such a good reminder that we always talk about quarterbacks in the terms of if I need one play, if we need one drive, all this other stuff. Spaggs is as a defensive play caller, very obviously that guy. I think there are very few defensive play callers in that moment where Josh Allen is the guy on the other side. And you're like, it's kind of a coin flip.

The defensive coordinator might actually have something really good here. And for him to, they put Chris Jones on the offense's left side on that corner blitz. You got to slide to Chris Jones, fan. Like, why would you not? He's the scariest player on the field. And then they overload the other side, bringing the corner immediate pressure. Josh Allen heaves one up. To his credit, Josh gets it to the tight end there and he gives him a chance.

But when you're trying to play on the margin of I got to chuck it up while taking a shot and hope that my guy comes down with it, that's a good play by spec. and the good play by the defense. I know that that replay is not kind of Dalton Kincaid. It's an incredibly difficult play. You're coming back to the ball. There's three guys in front of you. If he had caught that, it would have been a minor miracle.

So I'm not going to walk away from this game being like, oh man, Dalton Kincaid really should have caught that ball. He could have. But I think that play is won by the Cheaps before he even gets started. And when we're looking back 10, 15 years from now, Spagnolo being available and being somebody that wasn't going to be a very in-demand head coaching candidate, no matter what happened with this team, because he had already gotten his shot, he was a little bit older. It's part of the secret sauce of what has allowed this team to sustain in the way that they have.

I was at the AFC championship game after the 2018 season, the D-4 to Offsides game, where you're just sitting there, you're like, what else could the Chiefs offense have done in this game? And I think Andy Reid had the same thought. It's like, what more could this offense do and we still couldn't beat this team? And Spagnola arriving, it's not even just the last fourth and five play. On third and 10, they line up in a cover zero look. They make the bills check into a screen on that play to set up that fourth and five. So on the two deciding plays of your season, if you're the Kansas City Chiefs, Spagnolo, pre-snap and post-app, dial stuff up to make sure you are on the offensive and still dictating the game with your season on the line. And I think that we've just seen that so often in the postseason for this team.

Mahomes is a huge part of it. He's the biggest part of it, but they have so many other little moments and little details that are putting you on your heels and making you feel tighter than you should. You're in a reactionary position when you play this team. You're in a reactionary position mentally before the game even starts, and then they put you there by the little things they do over the course of the game. It's remarkable. It really is truly incredible.

And I think the one part of where I will kind of compare them to the Patriots dynasty is with the Patriots, you always had continuity with Belichick, obviously, on defense. And then offense was, it was Tom Brady's offense. Like, they changed stuff over the years a little bit, but Nick Daniels was there for a majority of the time. And for the most part, it was Tom Brady's offense regardless. So you had true continuity on both sides for two decades. They now, the chiefs kind of have that with what Spagnolo has become for them.

Like, obviously, Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes on that side of the ball. Yeah, it's just flips. It's interesting. I haven't thought about it in those terms, really. Yeah. And the fact that they've gotten away with keeping Spagnolo is remarkable because if he was, I mean, you bring it up that he already got his chance as a head coach. And so maybe he's just kind of over that at this point in his career. I don't know.

But if this was like a 32 year old guy who was one of the up-and-coming guys, he would have been gone two years ago from this team. And we don't know what this stability would have looked like. And so for them, for Spagnolo to be at this particular spot in his career and land in this place and kind of want to just stick around and build this thing with a bunch of homegrown pieces, it really is, like you said, a very, very huge part of the special sauce that they have here in Kansas City. It's hard to get a head coach and job as an aging defensive coordinator, no matter who you are. To get your second one, I think, is tough for people, whether that's right or wrong. I just think that owners make these decisions in head coaching cycles, and Steve Spacknolo is not the archetype of coach that most people in the league are seeking out.

Vic Fangio got his shot after being the Bears defensive coordinator during that run, but that was the first time. You know, that was a, well, maybe he will be a great head coach. I think there's probably enough pause with Spagnolo where there's, there are owners that are going to hold off on making that decision. We'll see what happens, right? Like the Saints still need a head coach. Their search hasn't gone great, but it has been a huge part of this. And even with all of that, even with what Spags can bring to the table,

and we'll talk about some of the other elements of the Chief's defense today, I think, are really important. Individually, I thought the front played very well independent of some of the blitz stuff that they did. But for as good as the Chiefs played and for as much critical, credit as they deserve in this game, you are going to be kicking yourself if you're Buffalo. There are just so many small moments in this game. And obviously, the game swings on that fourth and one where I don't know if he got it.

I know that the call on the field saying he didn't get it puts the bills at a disadvantage in that moment. It's really hard to overturn turn spot calls. You can argue with the original spot of the ball, which I think was probably incorrect. If you look at it, the referee, on the side, on the upper end of your screen, he had it as a first down, the guy on the bottom of the screen did not. So if they somehow call that a first down, that's probably the way it ends up going.

But even with that in mind, the short yardage inefficiency from the bills in this game comes up huge. They don't get that fork down. They come up short on a couple more short yardage plays, and they don't get two point conversions over the course of this game that would go a long way when you end up losing this thing by three. So the chiefs deserve a ton of credit, but there are several missed opportunities for the bills in this game that I think that they're going to be thinking about for a very long time. The short yardage stuff was particularly confusing to me because I think on the whole, the best thing that Buffalo did all day was run the ball.

And I thought their interior outside of these particular short yard situations was actually really good. And so the fact that they struggled when they really needed two yards here, one yard here, six inches here, whatever it is on some. of these third and short, fourth and short or goal situations, I thought was baffling. And maybe that's just the Kansas City guys know when they need to turn it up. And maybe that's part of what it was. I mean, Chris Jones has been famous for just when you need a play. He can go make a play. So maybe that's part of what it was. But I was just kind of confused that they were so good at this. And even with some of their six offensive lines stuff, being able to move bodies except for in the four plays when they probably needed it more than any other moment. It just seemed like they

didn't have anywhere else to go in short yards. Like that the Josh Allen sneak is. has been so effective over the course of the season. It's like, why would we need another short yardage play? I mean, the Eagles feel like that. They don't really have to go anywhere else because it's so consistently effective. So when those sneaks to the left, which clearly the chiefs had a beat on, I mean, they were talking about it on the broadcast. So we know he's going in that left agap pretty much every single time.

They kept shutting it down and the bills just didn't have another answer. The fact that all of those third and one and fourth and ones, you're just hanging on for dear life while you're watching that game, just not a place I ever expected to be with a Josh Allen quarterback team that has made this look very easy for the most part every time they've been put in these situations. And the one that they did convert is they got stopped on a third down and then they had Josh Allen in the gun and they just said, all right, we're going to pull a guy in front you to the right and we're going to pray that you can go get it. But even that was like not there under center sneak stuff like you were mentioning. So I did go over the top on the sneak that they

convert and he fumbled. That's right. That's right. I forgot he had the one where he went over the top. So maybe this was just very, very good honing in on their sneak stuff, which you wouldn't think would be enough to decide a game when you're between Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, maybe it is. I want to talk about the Chief's offensive performance in this game because I think that the defense doing what they did in that short yardage play against Josh Allen and Spags with the Blitzes. I think that's probably going to suck up a lot of oxygen because those were high leverage moments at the end of the game. They're very visible moments in the game. But what the Chiefs were doing offensively for most of this game, I was just incredibly impressed. Remember after the Week 16 game where they played the Texans and they had this really well-c curated game plan for the Texans where there's a lot of man coverage. Mahomes was getting rid of the ball quickly.

And after that game, this is just says more about me than it says about the Chiefs. But I'm watching that game and I'm like, oh, yeah. Like this team in these one-game samples can really dial up these excellent game plans. You have Andy Reid there. Matt Nagy's been there for a long time as part of that ecosystem. A lot of that coaching staff has been around. They're really good at figuring out these are one, two, three things we think we can keep going to and picking at and take advantage of no matter who we're playing on the other side. And you watch what they were doing early on.

And the fact that we had two chunk RPO's to start the game. There was another huge play on an RPO on the first drive. They were consistently moving the pocket with Mahomes, getting him outside of the pocket, bootlegs, getting him on the, the move so if he wanted to run, he could. So many details of what they were trying to do offensively, I just think deserve a ton of credit for how buttoned up and thoughtful it was in how to attack this defense specifically. The moving the pocket stuff, I'm so glad you bring that up. That to me is one of the biggest points because you saw it multiple times in this game. The bills were trying to do some of their spy stuff. But if you are moving the pocket,

you're either sprinting out and you're like getting some guys ahead of him, whatever it is, or if you're like incorporating the play action part of it into it, that linebacker is hesitating over the middle of the field anyway. So he's probably not as immediate to go get out in front of Mahomes. So I thought them doing that and kind of unlocking Mahomes in that sense was really good. And then you mentioned it. The fact that they have a real man coverage ability to just outrace guys now, I think it's huge.

I thought it was going to be more of a Hollywood Brown game. Kind of ended up being more of the Xavier Worthy game. I thought this was one of the best games that he's played all year. obviously the one that he maybe catches, maybe doesn't down the field, whatever you want to call that, that was probably his biggest play. But he had a number of other big ones in this game. There was one where he beats DeMar Hamlin on the left side where they're kind of doing some motion stuff. Another great design.

Exactly. It's really, really smart. It was really smart. And he gets, that's a winning matchup. This was actually, to me, kind of explained the entire game. Xavier Worthy and Hollywood Brown in particular made the bill's defense feel slow. in the background. And that is their biggest issue. They're very smart unit. They're usually willing to tackle. They're good at getting hands on you. If you can outrun him a little bit, that is probably

your best bet. And that worthy touchdown, and then he had another couple of handful of plays where he just is clearly able to manufacture space that the bills, I think, just for the most part, struggled to keep up with, which was particularly a problem when Benford goes down pretty immediately in this game and kind of handcuffs what you're allowed to do. The worthy touchdown is the one that puts the chiefs up 14 to 10. If you watch that play, the chiefs are in empty and worthy is at the number three spots. So, DeMarne Hamlin is on him in man coverage. And they have a little stack to that side where they give him just a little bit of

space and then he's allowed to outrun Hamlin to the pile on. And these are the things when we talk when we're talking about teams. And it's like week 11. And it's a team that's rolling like the bills, right? I remember doing the show with Fran Duffy in the back half of the season. We're trying to find the Achilles heel for all of these teams. What could hurt them as we get to the playoffs? And with the bills, there were just a couple different.

things. I was worried about their front affecting the game more than it was at that moment. That did not turn out to be a huge problem in the playoffs. I actually thought the front played pretty well. But we kept talking about the lack of athleticism at safety. And just, when you were making those guys play in space, a lot of it was giving up explosive runs over the course of the year. But you sense their lack of speed in a bunch of different areas. And I thought that showed up tonight. I thought that Hamelin had a rough game in space. And then like you mentioned, as soon as Benford goes out, now you're in trouble because Mahom just has the microscope on him immediately. I mean, on that drive, they come out.

They hit one to Worthy with 25 yards of cushion on the left side. And then on the next play, they come back to Hopkins and hit that. And I'm pretty sure if the ball from Worthy wasn't caught, the defensive hold on that play was on Kyir Elam as he was trying to cover Travis Kelsey. So you have four or five low light moments in this game from him, and I think that is accelerated by the chief's understanding, recognizing, and taking advantage of that in every available moment. And even in some super high leverage situations, there was one that Worthy caught. I think it was a third down later in the game on a mesh conversion where they get him matched up on Taryn Johnson. And he just, Taryn Johnson doesn't really see all the traffic running over the middle of the field. And Worthy just pops wide open and it's a huge conversion, gets him into field goal range again.

And so it's just, it's one of those plays where I just thought any time the bills tried to get into man to man, they kind of got beat with a lot of these beaters and a lot of Xavier Worthy being quicker and faster than everybody else. And then I think in a lot of their zone stuff, Mahomes was getting the ball out of his hand really, really quickly. And some of that is aided by some of the moving pocket stuff that we're talking about. But in general, especially in the first half, he was just boom, catch it, balls out. Like he was just beating their zone stuff so well. True Media had him at a 2.79 time to throw in this game. which was the fourth lowest of any playoff game this year. And that's including like, you know,

Jaden Daniels against Detroit was very low, but he was also throwing screens like all of the time. And that was part of it. It wasn't as much of it in this game with Mahomes, but I just thought his ability to not let the rush affect him in a majority of these situations was, was huge because the Buffalo Front was playing well. He just didn't give them many chances to get there

because he was getting the ball out quickly. There was another play. I was trying to look through my notes and see where it was, but I'm pretty sure Elam just dropped. somebody on a crosser that what led to a huge conversion as well. That mesh play you were talking about was Taryn Johnson getting caught up, but I believe there was another short crosser where Elam just dropped somebody. I want to say it was worthy, and it led to like a 10, 15-yard gain.

I can't find it in my notes right now. There's like a jumble of awfulness. Try to figure this out. Exactly. So you mentioned the bills front and how they weren't able to affect this game in part because of the way that Mahomes is playing how quickly he was getting rid of the ball, which I think is absolutely true. On the other side, I thought the Chief's ability to affect Josh Allen with four ended up becoming a big part of this game.

Obviously, the Chiefs bought a lot of heat. But when they didn't blitz, the Chiefs had a 50% pressure rate in this game. Chris Jones had seven pressures. Mike Dana had several moments. That group, that was another thing we were a little bit worried about at times over the course of this season. It's like when they bring four, can they affect the game outside of Chris Jones? And for large swats of the season, the answer to that was no. And again, in the biggest moment, when it all matters, their front four turns it up in a way that we have not really seen from this group for really most of this season.

And I think honestly, part of that was a little bit of game script. Like the bills, they get the ball first. They don't do anything with their first drive. Chiefs come out and score immediately. And it's like, okay, you're forced into, you probably feel a little bit of pressure to be a little bit more pass heavy. and I think Buffalo started to play that way. They were, their pass rushers, Kansas cities, were able to kind of pin their ears back a little bit. Spags could send some of these splits, but you could tell Josh Allen I thought in the first half was a little bit jumpy.

He was a little bit anxious. I think some of his throws were missing. Like there's one right before the half where he has Curtis Samuel on a shallow wide open and he just throws it at his ankles. And he like those are just throws that Josh Allen doesn't miss anymore. He had a couple of moments where he's trying to do the crazy stuff and go back to like 2019, Josh Allen, throw the ball 40 yards down the field for no reason. Like he just, I think that was why in the second half, they had that one drive where I think they ran the ball eight times in a row, did one RPO, and then ran the ball like three more

times to get into the end zone. I think they just needed to calm him down a little bit. And it really did start to pick up in the second half. I thought for the majority of the second half, they were able to slow down the rush and really forced Spagnolo to bring pressure if they wanted to get to him. But that first half, it was a lot of just being able to get home with four because it seemed like Buffalo's play calling was very like, man, we got to throw the ball. Like running the ball is not going to be enough here.

The first couple drives of the game, he definitely felt panicky. I mean, nearly throws two picks on that first drive. In a row. You know, those two picks a row on that first drive. He drops a snap with five minutes left in the second quarter on a second and five that torpedoes that drive. Then he chucks the ball into triple coverage. I'm pretty sure he saw the defensive hold on that play.

And that's why he was willing to let that ball go. It was funny in the moment, I see him pointing at something. I'm like, what is he doing? What is he pointing out? Why are you pointing at something in the middle of the play? And then that's obviously what he saw. So he was willing to let that rip. But even if you're willing to excuse that one, that stretch where it was the drive at like

four minutes left in the second quarter, he's low to Samuel on that second and 10. And then on the third and 10, he escapes to his left. And he just kind of launches it down the left sideline. I absolutely thought he was a little bit jittery in the first half. And in the second half, that stop that the bills get. So obviously they score at the end of the first half because Matt Collins is potentially, I guess it's essentially Jerry Rice in this game. Like whatever reason, if you wear 13 for the bills and you go to Arrowhead in the playoffs, you are Randy Moss. It happened with Gabe Davis and now it happened with Matt Collins.

So they score. It's a huge drive. Come out, down five at the half, Bill, get a stop. And because they were only down that score early in the fourth, in the third quarter, I do think that changed the complexion of the game a little bit because they're like, we can just run the ball. Like we're just going to sit here and run the ball down their throats. And yeah, the only throw on that drive where they ran the ball like 11 or 12 times was like an RPO screen that was essentially a running play. And so that was what they wanted to tap into. It's what they were trying to tap into on that drive where they get stuffed short on 4 down and then the game has to swing back a little bit.

So when they were able to play the game they wanted to, it felt a little bit different for the bills. There just weren't that many stretches where they were allowed to settle into that today. that's the perfect way to say. They couldn't settle into it. And I think if Josh Allen was maybe a little bit more consistent early in the game, they would have felt they would have felt better about being balanced, controlling the game that way. But it just felt like for large portions of this game,

it was either we've got to hunt for the big plays until they realized, okay, this is not working. We need to slow things down a little bit. Maybe we'll get one insane Josh Allen seam throw every now and then, which he did hit a couple of insane throws in this game. Obviously, the first touchdown to Matt Collins is crazy. he beats Nick Bolton, who's playing as the seam dropper, as the Tampa dropper one time, hits him right next to his earhole.

I was like, that's a ridiculous throw. So you still got some great moments. 13, right? On that drive, they converted a third and a third and 13. And at one point, it was second and 20. And he makes it all back on that throw to Shakir. I have not seen the angle from behind on that play. I just watched the dots.

And I was trying to watch it in real time. And I'm like, that is not a big window. He's trying to fit that ball through. He made it look much, much easier than it actually was. us. All of his best throws were that today, where it's just the window doesn't seem like it's there and he makes the throw. It was just a lot of the easier stuff that I thought he was struggling with, which is weird because the biggest development with Alan over really every year of his career is that he's gotten better at all of the easy stuff. And so for in this moment,

for that to be his biggest issue, I thought was frustrating. And again, I think the bills did a good job of calming him down with the run game in the second half and getting better play out of him. but I thought kind of Spags got into his head pretty early. And by the time they figured it out, it was a little bit too late. We talked about this coming into the game. And I think some Bill's fans pushed back on this. And I totally understand why you would, this idea that they really need to do it now. Like, this is the year where that needs to happen because, you know, you're only one and a half point underdogs on the road, which essentially is a coin flip.

The NFC, the Eagles played really well today. But there really wasn't like a juggernaut team in the NFC for most of the season. The Niners had a down year. the lions were hurt. Like, is this your best shot? And I think as long as Josh Allen is your quarterback and playing at the level that he's playing at, you're going to be in contention pretty much every single year. But when you look at so many of the things that had lined up for this team this year,

okay, the injuries are one part of it. They've got a couple guys out. But how many times did we hear during the broadcast? They had more snaps with their starting offensive line this year than any team in the league. They had the number one turnover differential in the NFL this year. They gave the ball away like, five or six times the entire season. They were like plus 24 on the year, even in this game.

You put the ball on the ground four times and the chiefs lose a fumble and you still can't finish it off at the end. So it's not that this team as constructor, the talent on this team means this is the best chance they have. They're young at the receiver positions. There's been some turnover on the back end. You know, we'll see some of those younger, like Cole Bishop in next year, you know, does that look a little bit different?

I think this team has constructed. This isn't like an all-in sort of situation. They actually had a lot of dead money that they had taken on this year to kind of set things up for the future. This kind of felt like a soft reset year. But that doesn't mean that when you actually get down to it, based on everything else that was going on around you and so many of the circumstantial things you can't control, this might have been your best chance.

And for it to end like this, it's got to be heartbreaking if you're a Bill's fan to get this close again and have this be the final result. Yeah, this will not be their last time here. Like you said, as long as they have Josh Allen, they have as good a chance as anybody to get this far as anybody obviously but Kansas City. But the stars will probably never align quite this way. And that's the issue. And usually you look at almost any Super Bowl team, especially ones that are outside of

these dynasties like the Patriots and the Chiefs, they usually did need a lot of things to go in a particular order for them. And they needed the stars to align for certain things to go their way to make this type of run. And it felt like that is what it was like for the bills this season. I mean, you mentioned the Kansas City Fumble. I think the broadcast said it was their first turnover in like 83 drives, Kansas cities. So you got like an unbelievably rare turnover. The stars aligned so well up until this exact moment.

And they just, you get one play against Spags at the end and that decides it. If you look at it moving forward, the bill is. have like a million dollars in cap space going into 2025 after they move on for von Miller. They're currently slated to be over the cap. So they're going to have to move some money around. Alan has a $43 million cap hit. He's a $14 million base salary. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if he negotiated an extension this offseason based on

the rest of his guaranteed money and where the quarterback has, where the quarterback market has gone since he signed that contract. So maybe you could get that number down now because they have $65 million in space in 26. They have some of the more expensive pieces coming off the books. Like, again, it's a little bit clear when you move past this year and next year. But this is not a team. I don't think that's going to be able to throw around a lot of money in free agency. You're going to have to rely on a lot of your in-house pieces, which isn't necessarily surprising when you have a quarterback making money at the top of the market and you paid some of your other homegrown guys. But that's the reality

of this. It's not like there's a ton of reinforcements coming right now. Not that there has to be. Right? Like, this team has constructed, I think, should be very comprehensive. competitive again in the AFC, but they're in a spot right now where there's not a ton of wiggle room as we look forward to next year. I mean, it's kind of like we've talked about the chiefs recently. And you mentioned this on the preview show, like they're in this little reset period where you kind of have to bank on some of your homegrown guys a little bit and your quarterback's making a lot of money and you got to make these right low cost bets.

I think they'll, again, they'll be fine next year. Just maybe it is a little bit harder when the chiefs, again, they probably will not feel this like slow ever again. And so the fact that you're having to battle with that, I think it's going to be tough. One more thing I want to say about the game specifically, the James Cook touchdown where he is diving over the goal line. I just have to bring that up before we get out of here with this game. That was, I've said all year, I've never seen James Cook run as hard as he is this season. That was the piece of their resistance of that. Like him being able to get over the goal line there, him finding a way to stay up was it was the coolest play of the game. And I know they lost,

but that was the coolest play of the game. Absolutely was. He had the presence of mind, wall, one hand was coming down, and he was getting hit in midair to reach the ball out over the goal line. It was a phenomenal play. And he really has taken a big step this year specifically. And I think they're just rushing ecosystem with the guys they have up front and him. That's something you'll absolutely be able to rely on moving forward. I want to ask you, just, I, I, because I think that I'm kind of taking this for granted, just that with Allen and with sort of the other elements of the infrastructure they have, I think McDermott's a good coach, et cetera. Is there anything about this team that's kind of like endemic to this team that gives you pause about

what their ceiling is? Or do you think this is just kind of like a couple bounces of the ball either way? Offensively, no. If anything, I thought this was the best version of them. I think in previous years, they've been held by the fact that they were kind of purely a pass gun team. and I think that that's obviously not the case now, that they've found more modes on offense.

Obviously, their run game was one of the coolest in the league this year. And sure, you could say maybe one or two more star receiver power would level their game up. But like they were overall a functional offense. I do think on defense, you saw some times where especially this year, they are just really slow in the secondary. And I don't think that's necessarily endemic to who they are because earlier versions of the McDermott defense maybe were more vanilla in how they played. but they weren't slow.

Like those guys were very, very good, uh, and agile, fast safeties, all that stuff. Right now that just seems to be the issues that those guys just can't run. And even the corners for as good as they are, aren't the fastest guys. So I don't know if there's anything long term endemic about it.

I think it's just you've run into a dynasty and this is sometimes what happens. You become the team that gets forgotten. If you're thinking about position groups heading into next year, I think the secondary is a good position group to think about because again, you drop Bishop in the second round this year. You'd hope that he'll be a part. of your starting lineup moving forward. You have Rasul Douglas, he's hitting free agency this offseason.

So now you're looking in another outside corner. So the secondary, I think, as you look at total snap count in the 2025 season, is likely going to look a lot different than it did this year. We'll see if that ends up being a positive or negative. I just want to wrap up with a couple more closing thoughts about the Chiefs. It's easy to get numb to this. it's easy for this all to just kind of wash over you because we've gotten used to it. It's crazy.

It's crazy to have done this. It's crazy to have sustained this level of success. And we alludes to this a little bit in the preview show. And it's something that I was really appreciated about the Patriots as you watch kind of the contours of the Patriots dynasty. There were so many different versions of those teams. Right. So early on, I mean, that, when it stretches 15 years, you're talking about eras of football. Like the NFL was played differently in 2001 than it was in 2019.

They changed the rules because of some of the playoff games that Brady played. The game feels so different. But even as we get a little bit further into the modern era and the fact that, you know, you have the 2007 team, obviously. And then in 2011, you have one of the greatest, most efficient offenses of all time built around these two tight ends. You have these playoff games where they're running the ball 50 times. You know, the defense changes from to three, four with these massive. two gaping pieces early in the dynasty, and then it gets a little bit smaller in some elements, and there's some man, and there's some quarters, and it changes when it needed to change.

Whatever the situation called for, they were able to be that sort of team, and for two, three years, stretches at a time. And the chiefs have done that, but they've done that with a quarterback who is somehow like more dynamic than Tom Brady even was. Like, what Mahomes is asked to be in any given moment, today it was his legs. Today it was design runs. They read like a two-guy quarterback power for a touchdown for 20 yards. And just their ability to kind of shape shift from season to season and be these different versions of themselves.

It really is the mark of like a dynastic team. It's just not something we've ever really seen before outside of one other example. And there are elements of who this chief's team has been that just feel even a little bit more dynamic in some areas than what the Patriots were able to do. there are two parts of this that really capture what you're saying for me one it's mahomes when he came into the league he was the high flying circus act like he was just going crazy bombs away he could have stayed that player and still been one of the top five quarterbacks in the league for a very long time two 50 touchdowns his first season was unanimous MVP the league could have quote caught onto him and he still would have i'm sure sustained that at a pretty decent level but he in

in 2022, the team realized, okay, we got to change things up a little bit. And he really bought into this idea of getting the ball out quicker, being smarter in the pocket, you know, playing to how the game, like the pacing of the game and not feeling like I need to get out ahead of things as a pastor. Like he just, for him to have that maturity so fast, like, I feel like there have been at certain points, players and teams and whatever in sports where it's like, oh, I'll figure it out in the postseason. And they can kind of coast a little bit through the regular season.

That's supposed to be guys who have done it for a decade and have won like all these other stuff like deeper into their careers. Mahomes is like 28 and he's already in this mode where you get to January. He's 29. Take it easy. Whatever. He's not 30 is my point. And he's, you have felt this way about him for like three years now. And it's just ridiculous. And then the other side of it to me is Mahomes from day one with this chief's era has been, he's in the spotlight.

He's the guy. He's the main attraction. The fact that it has shifted. a little bit where on that fourth and five where the bills have the ball, I'm so amped up for what Steve Spagnolo is going to do. The fact that a team that has Patrick Mahomes, I'm getting super excited about what the other side of the ball might do on a given play. It's just this dynasty and this team really has everything. And the fact that they've sustained it for so long, I know people are tired of it, but we're about to see history potentially. I don't know how you

you get tired of that. It's so cool because even if you look at who the chiefs were before Mahomes got there, a lot of the stuff that they're doing now is stuff that they were kind of doing with Alex Smith. And so you have, and when you watch those chiefs teams with Alex Smith or quarterback, everything else, and Alex Smith was a good player, but the machine was so well built. You know, the fact that they can be this efficient offense for seasons without receivers at some point, It was incredible at how all the individual pieces fit together. It was like Andy Reid, like building a watch. It was insane.

And then you drop Mahomes into it and that changes a little bit. But that first part didn't just go away. Like Reed's ability to do that didn't disappear when he got Patrick Mahomes. And now that it's become a little bit more fine-tuned again, where it's a little bit more surgical in the details, they're not a sledgehammer team anymore, the way the league works and the way that they're constructed. So you still have that ability to kind of work in the details, but you also have one of the most dynamic quarterbacks we've ever seen. So you have all of that on offense. And then on defense, having a defensive coordinator that is one of the best single game defensive coaches of all time, when these are your heights and you're automatically going to get to these moments because of what you are on offense, it changes the complexion. It changes what you're capable of.

It changes the longevity of it. it changes how often you can find an answer. I mean, look, think about the Super Bowl last year and what he was able to do against one of the most efficient offenses we had ever seen. It's all come together in a way that we have truly never seen in an NFL context, where you have the quarterback, the offensive infrastructure, the defensive infrastructure, and the Patriots were similar to this. But again, it's how dynamic Mahomes makes it feel that I think changes the equation a little

bit with what these chiefs teams are. The last thing I'll say, what you should. said about them being able to go back to stuff that had been answers before, that's the value of them having this kind of unrivaled continuity. And we kind of propped it up for what Detroit has been able to do with their coordinators for a while. The chiefs have had that for even longer now with Andy Reid and Steve Spagnolo. It's just the fact that they have that level of continuity with probably the greatest quarterback I've ever seen, at least in terms of like physical talent and what he can do at his best, this is what happens. You end up going to three Super Bowls in a row.

I think this is important to point out, and what's the last point I'll make about this, as you're one of the other teams in the league, as you're one of the teams that doesn't have one of these guys, everything has to be perfect. Everything has to be in its right place for you to be competitive with a team like this. And the fact that they can also do that, but they have this guy at quarterback, I don't think hopeless is the right word, but it starts to feel dire. It starts to feel like what would need to happen for us to get in the, way of this. Like the Niners felt like that sort of team last year and they still weren't able to do it.

And we'll see what happens with the Eagles who, it's a slightly different situation. Like Hertz can have those breaking case of emergency moments, but I think the Eagles are really lifted by most of the talent they have across the roster. And we'll see if ultimately that's enough for them to beat this Chiefs team. All right, guys, before we move on, let's take a quick break. Let's get to that NFC championship game. The Eagles destroy the Washington football team, 55 to 23. This Eagles offense playing the way that it was today is truly terrifying. Like, this is one of those games where you look at what they're capable of doing at every

single level. And I'm just not sure what you really feel good about as a defensive coordinator. You know, again, we'll have a long time to preview that game. I think that maybe you can heat them up a little bit. We saw that a tiny bit today. But for the most part, when the run game is working the way that it is and they're able to throw the ball as proficiently as they were today, and you see that talent sort of shine through, it just becomes like a title wave that can just overtake you. And that's kind of what it felt like

today for Washington. I'm going to try my best to encapsulate that with a number here. The Eagles scored seven rushing touchdowns today. This has only happened three other times in NFL history since the merger in 1970. Three other times in NFL history, and they did this in a conference championship game, that is the perfect encapsulation of when they really want to, they can let this thing wash over you. And like the seven rushing touchdowns is a little disingenuous

to how well they threw the ball today. It's all one-yard rushing touchdowns. Right. A lot of them are these sneaks and like they're doing the thing where they're cheesing and getting the hard counts where they can get the guy over the line 100 times. So they did, you know, cheese the rushing touchdown numbers a little bit. But that's also just what this team does.

Like, they're uniquely qualified to win inside the five the way that they did. And so if they can just get their results, how nice that would be. Right. Right. Exactly. If the bills could do that, they'd be walking, they'd be going to the Super Bowl right now. And so it's a huge advantage. And I just thought their ability to get the explosives in the run game.

And then for a hurts to have, he played one of his best games all season. It's the best game I've seen him play this season. He was phenomenal. He was really, really good today. And like, I know I'm usually the type of guy. especially with his pocket movement, his sack avoidance, all that stuff. I thought today was one of his best days at it. Like there were a couple times maybe where he's looking to bail a little bit early,

but I thought his ability to stay clean. He only took two sacks, and one of them to me was very obviously not his fault. So I just thought for him to mostly avoid mistakes, also be high value as a runner, and make some of his best throws of the season, hell of a game to pull all that stuff out. I'm pretty sure the two sacks. One was an RPO that he kept and he didn't want to throw it because there were guys downfield. So he took that. And then DeLuvu Unblocked Sack was the only other one he took. So those are the two sacks on the game. And I think neither one of those is a sack, again, the traditional

sense where he's hanging out of the ball a little bit too long. A couple moments where he's pirouetting in the pocket and spinning backwards for reasons that are, those still gave me. You get a couple of those, but those were few and far between in this game. And he still threw the ball away on those. He didn't take sacks. So it's win. Yeah. He didn't take sacks because there was no one there. That's not exactly how I want to see a quarterback react to pressure in those moments, but there were two or three of those in a 50 play game. For the most part, I thought he was really, really good. So in this game, just throwing out a couple numbers, 0.43 EPA per dropback for Hertz. That was looking at eight minutes left in the fourth quarter when the game was essentially

over, with a 56% success rate. For context, Lamarro was at 0.30 this year, and Jared golf led the league with a 54% success rate. So what the Eagles did in the air today would have been the best passing team in the NFL this season by a wide margin. And what was so cool about it is that every single bucket you'd want to see them fill up, they did. So we were wondering, okay, if Washington's going to play a bunch of single high and there's going to be a lot of one-on-ones in the outside, can you take advantage of that? Check.

You had the fourth and five go ball, but they had multiple plays where they're hitting comebacks, you know, to AJ Brown on the right side, the pile-on route for the touchdown. When they had one-on-ones, they were winning one-on-ones outside. of the numbers. The thing that was most impressive to me was him reading some stuff out when they were getting a little bit funky in what they were trying to do on the back end. I honestly thought that Hertz's best drive of the game was the one where they didn't score because of the Louvre's sack. There were multiple plays on that drive. One, they started, one of the first plays of the drive, Washington's in single high. They drop into like a funky

cover two with the single high safety playing the post in cover two. In cover two. too. Hertz reads it out, hits A.J. Brown on like a little outbreaker because the safe didn't come down on it. It's a chunk game. I want to say it was third down on that drive. The Philly is in a look with Dallas Goddard at number one and Shin is over him. So that indication, if you're J.1 Hertz is this is man coverage. But instead, they drop into a funky version of cover two. He gets to Goddard almost immediately for a completion. Those are the types of things at times that can bother him when he is not confused. but you're switching things up right as the snap is happening.

He's got to actually read stuff out and make a decision. I thought he was quick with that today. I thought he was authoritative with that today. And when you combine that with their ability to take some of those one-on-ones and consistently win them, you have a passing game that looked borderline unstoppable for most of the game today. And those were the plays that I thought, if they lost the game, that's where they would lose the game.

Because what's funny is we mentioned, you know, Philly winning all these one-on-ones. It wasn't like Washington, like you were mentioning with some of these plays, were playing purely one-on-one ball or playing purely cover one. They were mixing it up. I thought really well throughout the entire game and they were really keeping them on their toes, especially like they were running a lot of simulated pressures. They were dropping guys from weird spots. They had a good game plan. It's just that the one-on-ones that we expected Philly to win, they won a lot of them. And then in these instances where they are throwing some, you know, maybe simulated pressures and dropping a guy or getting into these weird cover two rotations. Hertz, like you said, didn't make mistakes. because he got the ball out and was throwing pretty accurately. And then the offensive line outside of a couple of those moments, you know, I think Landon Dickerson was struggling a little bit early on in the game, which is to be expected.

He hasn't played center in years. And he was hurt. He was hurt and he was a backup center. Yes. Like, it's just, it's a very tough position for him to be in. So for them to only have those few blips, I just, they played this game in a mistake-free way on offense that I wasn't positive that they could tap into, but they absolutely did today.

Yeah, there's really only two plays that stick out from a past protection perspective. That Louvusack, the torpedoes the drive, that's a situation where they have two guys mugged up and the center and the back both go to the right. They leave Lubu unblocked for a sack. And then that third and 13, where Hertz, again, really nice play by him, they get another unblocked rusher in a similar look. He escapes out to his right, keeps the play out of live long enough. It actually delivers an awesome throw that Devante Smith.

That was his best throw. That was fairly nearly a touchdown. Even if it's dropped, they get the PI. They punched it in from the one yard line. So even smaller stuff he did in this game. And I also thought if you go back and look at some of the pre-snap operation, the first play of the game that said Sequin touchdown, they walked up to the line of scrimmage.

He checks out of it and then comes back to the look. They score. And I want to say his own lead draw touchdown run that Hertz scored on is something they checked into. So pre-snap operation stuff, reading stuff out. decision-making, accuracy. I truly think this might have been the best game that I've seen him play this year. And for it to come at this moment on the verge of this team playing in the Super Bowl,

I think is a really good sign if you're an Eagles fan. It's what I've said the whole year with like taking to the Kellynmore offense. I think doing some of the pre-snap check stuff, I mean, they hit a huge run last week where they checked into it before because they saw what the Rams were doing. So the fact that this is something that they can rely on and have the quarterback unlock the run game for you a little bit in that sense, even if he's, not necessarily the ball carrier, it really does go a long way. On the other side, I actually think Washington's offense acquitted itself pretty well in this

game. The only exception to that, they could not run the ball. I'm fairly certain that when I looked at the numbers deep into the fourth quarter, they're running back runs at like a 22% rushing success rate. And we've talked about this a little bit this season with this team. When you remove that as like a part of the engine of the offense, they can struggle a little bit. But I actually thought that for how much was put on him in this game, Jaden Daniels played very well against a really good defense. The problem is they put the ball on the ground three times. And the Eagle scored a touchdown every single time it happened. This is not a Jaden Daniels criticism. I want to make this very clear. My issue with the offense, so one, you couldn't run the ball. So that's always

going to put you into worse down in distances. And so they felt, you could tell early in the game, they felt the need to just get into a lot of these spread passing looks and try to win the game five yards at a time. And Jaden Daniels is really- It looks like they were going to on that first drive. They literally, I thought they were getting. It was what, 17 plays. It was ridiculous. And then in the next drive. They had multiple four-down conversions on the first drive of the game. And then for whatever, they didn't go for the last one when they're in the red zone, which I thought was whatever. The point is like, Jaden Daniels actually did well to win five yards at a time and beat the blitz and really keep the offense going.

it's just that when you're playing that way, you are kind of inviting the turnover luck thing to turn your way because you're just giving so many opportunities for the Eagles guys to tackle you. It's the bet you're making with that defensive system, period. You're betting that if they have to go 15 plays, they'll f*** up somewhere along the way. And they did. And that's what I talked about coming into this game,

was not necessarily the turnovers, but I was like, I just don't know if Washington's going to get the explosives that they got at some other points against the Eagles. So then what happens? And it turns out what happens is you phone the, fumble the ball a ton, but Washington did not complete a pass over 20 yards in this game, and they only completed one over 15 yards.

And so even though the passing offense- How many did he even throw? He only threw like, I think, five beyond 20 yards. The only one I can remember anecdotally is they had that one where the Eagles were in man and he had that big crosser. And I think he thought the Eagles were in man coverage and it was like a robber look where the other safety dropped down. He didn't account for the other safety.

He thought the other safety was covering somebody. and man, so he let that thing rip and blanket ship nearly picked it off. That's the only deep shot. I can remember them taking like the entire game. Well, I think half of them were when the game was effectively over and they had no other option. Those don't really count. Right, so those don't even count.

So they really just were not pushing the ball down the field, which again, it's like you said, if that's the bet you're trying to make against Philly, sure, you might get one Terry McLaurin catch and run. You're probably not going to get enough of them to beat a defense like this. the biggest play of the game, and all three fumbles were backbreaking because they all let to touchdowns. The equestepard fumble, that is the moment that the game swings. Because the Eagles, again, they scored through touchdowns at all three of those. But when that happens, it's 34 to 23 at the end of the third quarter.

You just got to stop. You're down 11, and you're at midfield with a first and 10. And instead of you being able to put points on the board in that drive, hopefully, cut it to one score early in the fourth quarter, you've now handed them the ball at midfield early in the fourth quarter. They go down and score a touchdown. It's now 41 to 23 with 12 minutes left, and the game is effectively over. So all three were brutal, especially when the other team is making relatively no mistakes, but that one specifically, the game completely turns. And the point about that play and even the first fumble of the game, the one not

in the kickoff, the Eagles are raking at the ball. These aren't just like little whoops. by Washington, this is a defense that has hunted the ball all year, and they did it again in the most important game of the season. The Burke's punchout on the Echler one is, it looks violent, dude. There is like an automated football that makes me feel warmer. Well, yeah, your Chicago guy. And this is, this is football as I understand it. The peanut tomming part of this, obviously, but I had an entire team that was sustained by

turnovers for most of my football watching life. And so when a team can do this, it puts me in a very warm and comfortable space. I mean, and that play was about as good as it looks. It was about as pretty as it looks. And the Echler play, it was one of those situations where he ends up on the ground because it's a low throw. And you can tell he's trying to scramble to get up. And when a guy is scrambling to get up and you have a player right there ready to punch it out, that ball's coming out 10 times out of 10. And so it was just one of those ones where you felt like, not necessarily like on that play, you felt the talent difference, but that was when it just, it was like, okay, the dam

has kind of broken here where one team is very clearly more put together than the other and just has more dudes. And I know Berks isn't like their star player, but I think just in general, that's when you felt like the watershed moment kind of happened. I think there were a couple other moments where you really feel just how deep the talent pool gets on this team. Talking about how Washington's offense, I thought, moved the ball pretty well. over the course of this game.

The game swings for Washington's offense in like four or five different moments. The decision to kick on that fourth and three is one of them. And then the drive where they have to kick a field goal to go 14-6, go back and watch the second down incompletion and the third down in completion. On second down, Jalen Carter walks Beiotish back into Jaden Daniels and he overthrows. I think McCorren. So that was the other deep shot they took. He tried to throw a goal ball to McCorren down 14-3.

It falls incomplete. And then third and 10 on that drive, Milton Williams, walks Nick Allegrity back into the quarterback in completion. They're forced to kick a field goal. And then Jordan Davis. Jordan Davis is sack on that opening drive of the third quarter. That was really one of the only torpedoed drives of the day for Washington. For the most part, they were able to pick up at least a couple first downs every time I touch the ball.

That was one of the exceptions. And when your offense is moving the ball that way, if you can take away one possession from the other team, that might be enough for you to win the game. And those defensive tackles were enough to win this game. Like they won the game for Philadelphia. Some of the other guys got the punchouts, whatever it was. The fact that Philly is literally four deep at defensive tackle right now, Jalen Carter is on the field most of the time, but he's like all pro level player. He's phenomenal.

Jordan Davis is playing some of the best ball. Had a sack in this game, the big man, not typically more of a run defender, but he had a sack in this game. And then you obviously have Milton Williams having a couple of key pressures. And then Morrow Ojomo, I thought. really popped up in a couple of instances in this game. Like their ability, obviously you saw it in some of these pass rush situations, but like we mentioned with the run game inefficiency for Washington, they were beating them up on the interior.

It was not close in a lot of these situations. And a lot of Washington's run game is built on we're going to spread you out formationally, and then we're going to try to run it up the gut because you're just, you know, bleeding bodies out. And that's kind of how Philly plays defense anyway. But if the defensive tackles are this good, you're just never going to get access to that type of stuff. And you saw it today.

Yeah, and I think that's, this is not a criticism of Washington. This is where they are in the team building process. This is an offensive line put together with a bunch of mid-tier free agents. Like, when you have these guys who have pedigree, their first round type draft picks and Milton Williams, who's going to get $20 million a year free agency. Like somebody is going to pay Milton Williams this off season. There are going to be moments where you feel the gap in those two position groups, especially when your best offensive linemen is not playing in this game.

And that was the case for Washington. The other talent thing. that I want to point out and just the star power we get from the Sequel's team is what we got from Sequan Barclay in this game. Okay?

Obviously, you get the 60-yard touchdown. It's great. It's Sequan Barclay at his best. His second touchdown run, Louvo is unblocked, flying through the B gap. He presses it, bounces it outside. Just a phenomenal job

by Lane Johnson on that play, by the way. He has Doran's Armstrong one-on-one and just turns him, just like by sheer torque and force, turns him, Ali, Sequin takes it home for a touchdown. But I thought Sequin's best plays in this game are what he did in past protection. He was so, so good as a pass blocker in this game.

I mean, he's just meeting guys in the A gap. And there was even a play where there was a miscommunication where Bechton left the defensive tackle. Sequin gets just enough of him for J-1 Hertz to actually avoid a sack on that play. And then the last one, he leads up on Louvre on the J-1-Hurt's touchdown run. So you have this guy who just rushed for 2,000 yards. He's going to be the offensive player of the year. He had a 60-yard touchdown run in this game and multiple touchdowns.

And I think the best contributions he had to this entire thing are what he did in past protection and his willingness to play that way. He is the best player at his position coming off of a historic season. And he's doing all the dirty work stuff that we're like, this is why you need a Somaget P ride on your roster to go do all the dirty work stuff. And like the fact that the best player in his position is going out and doing that stuff, his eyes, his like his ability to just, it's not, there are some running backs who are very smart in pass protection, but maybe just don't have the sand in their pants to like hold up

against a Bobby Wagner and really take that shot. There were multiple times in this game where Barclay is he panicked Bobby Wagner on one of them. And then there was a play later in the game where they're trying to do one of those double mug pressures again. He just picks it up immediately. And like, he's not waiting. on the blocks is the most impressive part to me. He's not allowing that extra half yard where maybe this guy gets in Jalen hurts his face.

He is meeting the linebackers in the hole and really making sure he's buying as much space as possible. That is rare, rare stuff from anyone, let alone the best runner who, he would be the best player. And we wouldn't think any differently if Barkley didn't do any of this stuff. But the fact that he does just sets it to another level. You forget. So you forget, but you don't really think about him as like,

this type of player. He weighs like 2.30. Like we think of him as this like home run threat. That's a big man. And when he wants to throw that weight around, he is very capable of doing so. The last Eagles specific thing I wanted to mention just because, I guess a couple more. But one play, that switch verticals throw to Dallas Goddard down the left sideline, that's another example of the Eagles, I think, just really being tuned in in this game. We know we're getting single high.

How can we manipulate that? So on that play, they know it's cover three just based on the pre-snap look. They get a switch verticals where Goddard runs like a little wheel up the left sideline. And there's a flat controller to that side. So they put shin just in a terrible bind. And Bobby Wagner actually has to get all the way underneath that vertical round from Goddard. And that just ain't happening. So that was another area where just by design, I think the Eagles were putting themselves in really good positions in the passing game.

And that kind of brings me back to how the Eagles arrived at this moment beyond just the talent on the rest. the coaching hires they made this offseason and the choice to kind of consciously change what they wanted to be on offense and defense and realize the missteps that happened last off season go a very, very long way in putting them in this position, right? The talent is undeniable, but I think you could make an argument that on both sides of the ball by the end of the 2023 season, when we watch them just completely collapse in that Tampa game, they were probably two of the worst coach units in the NFL on offense and defense. Now, they're arguably like in the top two or three in the best coach defenses in football.

And the offense, even if there are some nip things you can nitpick and some frustrations with it every once in a while, I think how buttoned up this feels. And the fact that it's buttoned up enough to let the talent shine through, it is just such a stark departure from where this team was 370 days ago. Buttoned up is the perfect way to put it because last year, especially down the stretch, it felt like the talent alone was just dragging them to wherever they were. And they were very obviously being hurt. In spite of everything else.

Yes, in spite of everything else. This still feels like the offensive talent is carrying everything, but you have enough of a cornerstone here, enough of a baseline with how the offense is put together with some of their blitz ansters, with adding new stuff to the run game. I just feel like it's a little bit more you give yourself something to stand on that lets Sequan Barkley and A.J. Brown and DeVantz Smith and Dallas Garder go jump over and jump over people. So I think their ability to button up that side of the ball and then get Fancho doing what he did on the defense. This was a game where, for the defense, by the way, I was mildly worried, like, would Washington get off to a decent start?

And then maybe the Eagles start pulling away from what their identity is where they do want to keep a lid on everything and all that stuff. obviously didn't happen early, but the Eagles also just never budged from what they were, and I thought that was really impressive. And maybe that's just a testament to, you know, Fangio's done this for a long time, and he's not a young guy. He's not, you know, it's almost like what we saw the opposite of Aaron Glenn, where Aaron Glenn kind of departed from what he was in that Washington game in the playoffs. And for Fangio to have so much just maturity. And obviously, he's done this for a long time for him to not feel like he needed to do that in this game.

It really, really did a lot for this team. Yeah. We both had questions about what this team was going to look like despite the talent on both sides of the ball and how well it has all come together and just how phenomenal their offseason additions were in both the booth and with the roster incredibly impressive and I think has brought them to this moment. All right, guys, before we move on, let's take a quick break. Talk a little Washington Post Morton before we get out of here. I think too often we can look at teams like Washington and say, sky's the limit. They made it to the NFC championship game early in a regime.

They get $87 million in cap space next year. It's up there with anybody. This thing's just going to go up and up and up. And we can be wrong. And I think it's because we misattribute some element of why they got here. With Washington, I think you can really believe that sort of framing, in part because I think the quarterback is special. I think he is a special player.

And if you look at what gets you to this moment over and over and over again, in spite of everything else that's happening around you, whatever you do in the draft, whatever free agent decisions you make, those have to be good enough. But just look at the AFC. Just look at the quarterbacks who are always there at the end. The special quarterbacks are what do this for you. And again, this is a guy on the road in the NFC championship game playing against arguably the best defense in the NFL. and he played pretty darn well. And he has met every single moment that has been asked of him. And even before we get to everything Washington can add this offseason,

him being at the center of this and what we saw from him as a rookie, that to me is what drives a lot of the excitement and optimism about where this team can be over the next three, five years. I think one of the most telling parts of this game is that we just had a rookie in his biggest playoff performance and we're going to have like zero playoff talk about him. Like there's not going to be any doubts about what he is because he certainly carried his part in this game. And like there was no part of this where he felt Daniels was leaving place on the field. It was other guys or past protection, whatever it was.

So I do think the fact that they have him and he will obviously probably continue to level up where we hope that he'll level up. Obviously with young quarterbacks that can be up and down. We saw that a little bit with CJ Stroud this year. But in general, we expect him to be a guy that he can get back here. Here's the difference. It's not just that. with the Texans, as we were trying to project forward with the Texans in it next year, there was some baked in optimism and some imagination involved.

The Texans finished like 14th in offensive EPA last year. Stroud played really well, but when we were framing what their 2025 season could be, it was, well, if the offensive line gets better, if the run game can get better, what can they actually be? This is a top five offense. Like if they're just this next year, they would probably be a contending team in the NFC. So I think the fact that there's nothing, there's no projection necessary for this to be an elite offense. I think that to me is what feels a little bit different than the framing that we had about the Texans last year.

I think that's probably fair. I think I'm probably a little bit more scared about some of the regression that is going to hit this team in certain areas. And I also think they kind of got, I know their past protection. plans and stuff were good, and I know their offense was generally well constructed this year, I would be shocked if they could get away with an offensive line of this caliber next year. Like, it just doesn't seem like... They probably won't have to be. Yeah, they could make it better. That's true. Yeah. They probably won't have to. I mean, I think that's the question is where where do the resources go? I think that becomes the biggest offseason question for this team.

Again, they have $87 million in cap space. You got a couple guys hitting for agency, Bobby Wagner, Jeremy Chin, Zach Ertz. But Zach Ertz had a really nice season. The fact that Zach Earts, is catching 10 balls for you in the NFC championship game is not really a place where you want to be in 2025. And so I think, you know, can they start to add some real high level pieces in the draft? Like, do they take a tackle in the first round, for example, right? Is this not going to be just pieced together with mid-level free agents along the offensive line. Can you actually swing a little bit higher? They need another pass catcher somewhere along the way.

And we'll see what they end up doing in the secondary because that's probably where they need to spend some money and some resources as well. but they have a ton of them. I mean, this is a team that can really do a lot to improve the areas of their roster that feel a little bit underwhelming right now. And I think when you combine that with a quarterback who played this way and a play caller who's going to be coming back and seems to want to be there, it's a very good starting point with me. I was going to say I want to see what they do with the money first to see if I believe that, but I didn't think anything.

They did this last off season was any good. And then they ended up in the conference championship games. So maybe it doesn't really matter. I think that they've shown a real, here's what I would say about the front office. When you luck into a quarterback, but when you have the second overall pick and you get a guy like this, it's transformational. That's what Jaylon Daniels has been for this organization. That's one side of it.

I think the other things that they did, and we've talked about this a ton this year, I think that the moves they made have shown real vision, right? Where it's not just, can we get, we had a ton of phrasing money last year. They didn't spend the money on the most expensive. of guys that they could. I think that when you see how it all fits together on defense, the talent at the end of the day is a little bit underwhelming, but it all makes sense. Like, everybody had a role. Everybody had a way they were going to be deployed within the defense. Even the Brandon Coleman part of this that we've talked about. Like, drafting that guy in the third round and having such an intentional

plan for how to bring him along, I just think that everything that they've done, there's a reason for why they're doing it. And it kind of reminds me early on in the Brandon Bean tenure in Buffalo where when you watch the free agent moves that they were making, it's like, there's a purpose behind all of this. Like, this just isn't thrown at the most expensive player that they can find. They're seeking out skill sets. And how is this going to affect our quarterback? And how are we going to be able to play defense because we have these guys?

And so if that's the baseline of why you're making the decisions that you're making, I can get a, it's easier for me to get behind what this is going to look like moving forward because I think that there's actually a little bit of method behind the madness and how they arrived here. That's a really good point. And I also do think Dan Quinn has shown an ability to really improve and change, not just as a play caller, but kind of just in his overall approach to the game and being a head coach. I think what he did this year was, you know, more impressive than a lot of what he did, even in Atlanta, especially with the defense, but even just like how he's managing the game and stuff like that. So his ability to continue

to level up there paired with a quarterback like this and all the resources that they have. It is an incredibly good starting line. I guess maybe I'm just mildly scarred from what the Texans were last year, but I think you make a lot of good points about why it's not a one-to-one for that type of team. I also think that, and maybe this is recency bias, I think that I just can't imagine. The Texans last year, like, the protection wasn't as bad as it was this season, but the offensive line still wasn't as strength. I think that this coaching staff, getting as much as they did out of this offensive line from a protection standpoint and how well devised the protection plans were for a good majority of this year,

that prevents the bottom from falling out the way that it did for Houston. They are pretty far away from a talent perspective, but that's what this stretch is for now. That's exactly what this stretch is for. You weren't even supposed to be here. And it does remind me a little bit. And I think he played way better than Josh Allen that is a rookie, obviously. I mean, took Josh Allen a couple years, but this pairing of really good self-aware defensive-minded head coach. I think that that's what I would say about Dan Quinn. I would say the same thing about Sean McDermott in terms of how smart he was with a lot of the game management stuff, how aggressive they've been on forked down for pretty much his entire tenure there. That's what you have to be if you're a defensive-minded head coach.

You have to be somebody who's going to be aggressive in these situations, make the right game, game management decisions. I think Dan Quinn has shown an ability to do that. And if you can combine that from the coaching side of it with that transformational quarterback, that to me is a worthwhile thing. because even if Cliff does leave in a couple years, is the quarterback so good that you can manage to overcome that in the same way that Buffalo kid when Brian Dable left? If you can get the quarterback on such a fast track to being one of those difference-making guys where losing a coordinator only matters so much, then the defensive-minded head coach model here can take you a little bit further. Right. Like I think that's the case with a lot of these teams who have these CEO types, but these quarterbacks who kind of make it all work. independent of whatever with offensive coaching staff is going to look like year to year,

I guess is what I would say. Jay Daniels too, I think going back to fast tracking the quarterback thing really quickly, I do think him being older is probably good for them in that sense, like if they have to change offensive coordinators and stuff. I mean, he's seen a bunch of between what he was doing in college and obviously being at two different colleges, now being with a new play college in the NFL, he's seen and played a lot of ball. The impact of him losing a coordinator early in his career is probably not as damaging as

some of the other 21-year-olds that are coming into the league. So the fact that he's already played well and has the confidence and a hit like that probably wouldn't hurt you as much as other guys, they are in a pretty good, not bulletproof, but they're better built to sustain some of this stuff than maybe some other teams. And it really does feel like he's going to get at least one more year with Cliff, based on everything that's happened and based on what Cliff has said and just like the current situation. If he doesn't take the Saints job, he'll be back.

And he doesn't seem like he's in a huge hurry to take the last job on the board that other guys have actively turned down. Right. He seems smart enough to not go take the Saints job right now. I think he's doing just fine. He's still getting paid a decent amount of money by Arizona to offset that. And I think he understands that being with this quarterback is going to put you in a pretty decent spot. We're going to talk about all of that coaching news on an extra show that we're going to be doing on Monday into Tuesday. There's just been so much stuff that's happened over the last few days that we haven't hit. Cowboys hired a head coach. A ton of teams have hired a bunch of coordinators that we haven't talked about the entire Liam Cohen situation that we have not discussed at all on

this show, but want to. So we'll be doing one more little extra one on Monday into Tuesday to chat about all of that. And then our midweek show this week is having a special guest. I'm not going to tell you who it is. We're having a special guest on the midweek show this week that I think you guys will enjoy. So please be on the lookout for that. It is going to be a jam-packed weekend or week here on the athletic football show. and before long, I leave for New Orleans on Thursday.

So I will, we're going to the Super Bowl very quickly here. I'm going a weekend early because my wife wanted to go and she refused to go what I was going to be there. She's like, you'll be working, even though I won't be working like the two nights before the game. Yeah. So which is fine. I love New Orleans. It's my favorite city in America. I have a dozen dinner reservations that I've already slotted and have been working on it for like a month and a half.

The problem is this now means I'm going to be. eating in New Orleans for 12 straight days. And I'm a little bit concerned about how that's going to go. I'm not going to lie to you. You've got a whole off season to work out those problems. I'm a little bit worried about how it's going to go. I've been there for like five days and have come out on the other side, much worse for the wear.

I'm genuinely concerned about what this could do to me. And that without consuming a drop of alcohol, this is all just food related. And I know I'm going to be putting myself in a pretty bad spot. There's a chance by the game I will not be able to fit into the suit that I with me. This is my first time in New Orleans, so now you're, you're scaring me a little bit. Yeah, looking at the chat right now, yes, we also have, my bet is getting paid off on Radio Row at the Super Bowl this year. That is a product of me getting absolutely manhandled in our winspool and picking teams that were the worst versions of themselves the entire year. So I will be

paying off that at the Super Bowl one day. I have to get that figure. out and arranged because I still haven't booked it yet because I think I'm just denying that it's happening. But that will be another little fun wrinkle that hopefully will be able to bring your guys's way. Until then, and until our next show coming your guys's way on Tuesday, that's all we got. If you are watching this on YouTube, if you could like, subscribe, all that stuff, we would really appreciate it. Now that we've gotten really to the end of the season here, if you enjoy the show, please leave a review and rate it on your podcast platform of choice. Let us know why you've enjoyed the show. We would really appreciate that. It does go a long way. So just take 30 seconds. It would mean a lot to

me. It would mean a lot to Derek. For now, that's all we got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.