The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Cowboys top Patriots in OT, Cardinals stay unbeaten, Aaron Rodgers "owns" the Bears & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: October 18, 2021

What a weird NFL Sunday in week 6, with OT thrillers, emotional press conferences, wrestling promos & more. Join Robert Mays and Nate Tice for a full recap of Sunday's action - from the Cowboys winning 5 straight, to Arizona and Kyler Murray remaining unbeaten, the Ravens defense showing up, the Jaguars and Trevor Lawrence get their first win, trouble for Daniel Jones and the Giants and tons more on a NEW Athletic Football Show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome. The athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Doing great.

It seemed like the NFL wanted to give us some bye weeks. So the football gods were like, hey, which just spice it up a little bit, which just make it nice and nice and strange for you guys on this NFL Sunday. So we're going to start today. Like we start every single Sunday night with our first 15, which aligns nicely because NFL teams at first 15s. so do we. And the only, I just wanted to talk about how weird today was. I mean, it was just such a strange day.

And it started with the game this morning, right? I mean, the Jags getting their first win, which we'll get to a little bit later. And then it just kept down going. I mean, the Bears game had some of the strangest officiating decisions I've ever seen. And going both ways, it's not a complaint. I mean, the Packers had a touchdown wiped off the board. There was talking about that Sunday night game that just happened. I mean, obviously the very strange review.

Yeah. And it ended up not matter. the Steelers end up winning. There was a tweet today about Patrick Mahomes' contract and the remaining money on that deal. I'm not going to say who it was. It doesn't matter. But that was a moment that happened today.

There's so many things. The Browns had a Hail Mary to end their first half. It was also a banner day for strange press conferences in the NFL. Dan Campbell called out his quarterback in a way that I can't remember a head coach doing. The deep breath before he did it was amazing. Like he knew he was about the two-hand shove him and he was like, here we go. All right.

Am I going to do this? Am I really going to do this? Sometimes I'll do that on the show, but we can edit it out later for the shows that aren't on Sunday nights. There's no editing Dan Campbell's press conference. So his exact words, I will say this. I feel like he needs to step more than he has. I think he needs to help us.

And then he said, just like everybody else. So he walked back a little tiny bit. And then Brandon Cooks today just roasted his own team after the game. He said, you can't make anyone disciplined. You've got to want to be disciplined. Do you want to be that or not? It's as simple as that. Success is not a gimmick.

Discipline is not a gimmick. So some bad teams getting frustrated. And it does feel like we've kind of reached that point in the season where there's some attrition with injuries, where some teams are just kind of falling out. And that's where we are. That's what week six kind of feels like. We've kind of gotten into the downturn in the middle of the year. On a crazy day, though, the craziest thing that happened might have been the game in New England.

Dak and the Cowboys come back. They beat the Patriots 35 to 29 in overtime. Brings the Cowboys to 5 and 1 on the season. Dak throws for 445 yards and three touchdowns. They now have a three game lead in the NFC East. I mean, this game gave me whiplash. I mean, that sequence with the Trayvon Diggs interception followed by the Kendrick Boren touchdown. I mean, that runs the entire gamut of emotions.

If you're a Cowboys fan, a Patriots fan, I mean, this game had a little bit of everything. And even like at the end, like for gamblers because the spread was three and a half. So it looked like the Cowboys were going down to kick the field goal. And then, you know, Dak hits the rollout, the sprint out. I'm sorry, the naked and he hits CD over the top or on the over route that leads to a touchdown. on they cover. So it's like, I think I think that game had a little bit of everything for everybody. It's the, the, I think it was a big dump of cold water on like as optimistic as I could be on the Cowboys. And I think a lot of us are is that Mike McCarthy is still the head coach making

some of these decisions. And we've seen hints at it. We had it at the Monday night game, I believe. We're at half time. There was like a minute left and he had two timeouts and he like just didn't take them like against the Eagles who we have seen now. as not one of the better teams in the league. Football outsiders right now, they had the fourth and one that ended up being the 51-yard field goal that they missed. And then it would pick six and then the whip. Honestly,

that was just like, like had to take a moment just like going like, okay. When the Kendrick-Borne touchdown happened, I thought it was a replay at the first, like when I first happened. And then I was like, oh,

this is live. That just happened. First play guys, two guys almost kneecapped each other. But what a wonky game. But also some great. performances from a couple players, but then just also just some bizarre performances. You talked about the refs in the Packers Bears game. The rest in this game are bonkers too.

It was like just the add to the strangeness. It was like, yeah, let's just flag the Cowboys for three quarters to just see what the score is. That's what it kind of seemed like. That's what they did throughout this game. But that's just the whole theme of the game was, the whole vibe of it. So my takeaway from this on the Dallas side is that similar to what you said, the McCarthy stuff is a little bit worrying just because everything else about this team is roaring on all so much fun right i mean the offense is really clicking and dac looked excellent again today you know just the way the offense has looked all the different things that they can do all the places they can go when they need a huge first down the run game everything else tyrant smith got hurt in this game

which is a bummer you know hopefully that isn't a long-term issue but we've seen everything this offense can do the defense is still playing well you have a couple guys on that side of the ball Dick, how do you feel about the born touchdown? That's probably on the safety to that side, right? Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both, but it's, I would put it like 70% on the safety and 30% on Diggs if I had to like differentiate it to who. But I mean, it's the safety. I mean, come on, like go make a play.

Yeah, that's kind of how I felt about it too. It was like fair catching it almost. So you have you have digs getting a pick every single week. Randy Gregory is playing out of his mind. I mean, both sides of the ball are playing extremely well. To me, the only thing that can derail this team right now in these moments is some of the decision making. I mean, not going forward on that fourth and one and kicking the 51-yard field goal. And that's the type of stuff that can torpedo you, even if you have a ton of talent and even if that talent, again, on offense and defense is being deployed in the right way.

So I have a lot of enthusiasm about this team and just the way they're playing football. I think that when we get down to some of these crucial moments, I still have some serious doubts about the ways that they're going to handle. then it's it's it's you know they can keep up with anybody as long as they don't shoot themselves on the foot like which is actually kind of a lot of thought that's a big butt at this point as a neutral fan it's amazing to watch it's like an entire team of james winston like that's what that's what that's that's what this team is it's like they are going to do great plays you just hope you might just get some chaotic play at the five yard line where it's a bad snap or the two defenders running each other or two guys blitz that aren't supposed to blitz like it's just hilarious there's so much

talent on this team and then just these moments of like what was that uh but this this offense is we've talked about many of times this season already but it's one of my favorite watches in the entire league for everything they do running and passing the ball like even just the formation looks they did did today knowing they're going against a patriots defense like a patriots defense or a belichick defense or like a saving defense in college you know they have so many rules they we're running these looks and we have rules rules rules three by one rules two by two rules and empty rules, all these rules against these different offensive looks. What the Cowboys did today and how a good way to break that other than having good players

is let's make it look weird. What's make it? What are your rules against four by one? What's your rules against jet motion right at the snap of the ball? What about the running back tight end and we have two tight ends and running back all on the same side? Like just how do you play that? And you can see the entire game that the Cowboys are leaning into that.

Just four by one personnel, uh, even just like tendency breakers. Like they've been running jumbo personnel and putting Connor McGovern the six office alignment as a fullback. They pass out of it today. And they ran like a play action pass out. And it was like, okay, they haven't done that yet. And so it's like, okay, there's a little tweak that they're that they're doing on these next steps.

The walk off TD, the CD Lamb was, I mean, they just had all these bootlegs. And you could just see DAC going one to two to three. Even like the third and 14, this is really the one I want to talk about was it was 01 personnel, which we have seen CD Lamb getting handoffs throughout this year, four receivers and in tight end, no one. And they went out four by one formation out of it and passed out of it. It ran like a drive concept. And it's just like you could tell the Patriots defenders.

It was a wide. It was the third and 14 where Wilson ran for the first down like on a little crosser. And you could just see the Patriots defense going like, all right, we're doubling the tight end and we have to worry about four receivers. Like all four of us are singled up on these four. Like you can even see it at the snap of the ball of safety going. I know I'm supposed to double 86 the tight end right here.

But. Okay. And there goes, Cedric Wilson, just running wide open for the crosser for the first down. But that's just what you have to do against a Belichick defense is show them this, splash the water, and then sucker punch them, a bunch of bolo punches. And then also just little window dressing on the stuff you like to do. I love the game plan from the Cowboys today. I mean, they only had one three and out the entire day, I believe. They're just every drive with six more plays.

It was just a really good performance. They just had a couple funky plays. And that kind of sums up their season a little bit too. when you combine all of that with Dax just making some big time, big time throws. I mean, that third and 25 throw, he hits to CD. That sum up is just like, what a huge moment. And then the fourth and four to Cedric Wilson on that fade out of the slot, great catch. But also a big time throw.

I mean, on fourth down to put that ball in that spot, I mean, he's playing quarterback at an extremely high level right now. And that's why it's fun because it's an offense that clearly knows how it wants to deploy. these guys. They have a ton of talent and their quarterback is playing about as well as any other quarterback in the NFL. I mean, this team is for real. They are legitimately a contender in the NFC. I mean, obviously,

we're going to talk about some other teams that played well today, but there's really no denying that they should be around. I mean, they're going to make the playoffs. They have a three game lead in their division right now. They're going to run away with that division. So now it's just a question of what is their ceiling? And

I have no reason to think it's not really, really high. It's not right up there with anybody else. We've seen proof already that they can go toe to toe with good teams. It's not like where it's like, well, we have to see their schedule. It's like, no, they, they've done it already against good teams. And they've like, it's how they, we've talked about like that's one way you prove yourself as a contender is winning in different ways as a team is offense, defense or special teams, but even just as an offense is a passing, is it running. And today it's week and week out, this Cowboys offense just puts points on the board. And it's so cool when there's so many good players.

And like you say, Trigger Man, like Dak, that's just doing these things like week and week out. And they're just like dominating. Like it's like inevitable. Every one of these, you don't, this offense never seems hard. It's like, well, every bootleg goes for 10 yards. Every like run play like you can see there's no free runners. It's a, it's a unit playing really, really well right now.

And and even just like little things like you forget what a good throw around the move deck is because he tries to be such a pocket guy. And like today, Patriots are dropping eight and trying to make it real muddled for him. And he's breaking contain time in, time again. And why he's doing that is because he's just changing the angles to throw into these soft spots in the Patriots coverage. And it was working. And it's just little things like that that can do where it's like that's creating a throw in structure. It's just it's awesome.

It's so much fun watching them operate, watching play quarterback because it's just like what you want to see. Just him being a magician back there, but also being like just a professor. just operating from the pocket. All right. Let's talk about another team that absolutely has found some different ways to win. And you have my attention. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention.

Every single Sunday there's a million things going on. And we like to pick out a couple performances, a couple players, a couple teams that kind of made us stand up and take notice amid all the noise on Sunday. And I want to start with the Ravens defense. Because we talked a lot this week about Lamar Jackson. and everyone did after that Monday night game. He's playing extremely well in a way that we haven't really seen from him before.

I mean, this is drop back, like let's spread it out and sling it around, and that's how they've been winning. That's not how they won today. They won today running the ball and then playing fantastic defense. They gave the Chargers and Justin Herbert a hard time in a way that we have not seen for most of this season. It looked like the Ravens from a couple years ago when that Wilmar burst on the scene or even Lamar's rookie year when he came out of the second half of the season.

I love Drew Breeze. I think it was. They were like doing the highlights for the signing night game. And he's like, it's a plug and play offense for everybody else because they got Lamar like, you know, for the running backs, everybody else just have Lamar opened up that run game for everybody. But I think that's the best way you put it. It was just that doing the spread dropback stuff last week or throughout the season and

really showing what they can do with that. And Rashad Bateman does, you know, having him helps as well. They had what good and find those soft crevices in the zone. And he had a couple of out routes. Even the ball, he dropped the slant route. I know we could have talk about Lamar, but let me get my Rashob Bateman in real quick. He had the slant route that he dropped. It was a great route.

And I was like, yeah, that was from the slot. I was like, oh, they're going to lean into this guy. Just wait. He's going to have a game with 10 catches. He dropped it, but it was a great route. Great route. Hey, process, not results. But it's with this, with this offense or the Ravens offense, just watching it back

on film against the Colts, it was a little different. We talked about a little bit on Thursday or Friday show. is it didn't look it looked very much like they had plans for it. It was spread to pass. Okay, if you want to blitz, fine. Try and blitz us with like what's spreading this offense out. And then you can blitz us from that. But now seeing them go against this Chargers defense that the stat,

I think the stat of the week for me was Chargers had given up almost 10 yards of play out of base personnel on defense was they're like, okay, let's getting the heavier personnel, 21 to 12. We went 11 last week. But let's go 21 and 12. Let's kind of do what we've done the last few years. and they did it. Like they were able to win this way and really just control the ball,

even with maybe not having those big plays in the passing game that they got last week and a couple other times this year. But like you said, it's a complete performance because even the defense was just man coverage and pressure. I mean, they just played vintage man. They said, you're not beating us over the top.

We're going to bring some pressure. We're going to make it wot it up or make it murky for Herbert. And I would, this speaks to it more than anything. And I tweet this clip out was I think the Chargers offense align and run Because Austin Eckler is a smart player and he got fooled a couple times on protections. They said, screw it. We're done sorting this out.

And so they just full slit everybody and had the runoffack cut a defense alignment because they're just like, hey, it's just wad up this blitz because we can't, we can't block this up. And that's when you know that you're really dictating things as a defense is when you can just get the offense aligned to slide everything. But that's how the Ravens won today. It was awesome. On offense, they clearly were trying to play with the linebackers for the Chargers who were missing. two of their starting linebackers. Kenneth Murray didn't play today, Drew Juergenkled didn't play today, and the motion and just all the moving parts and the way

that they were trying to incorporate it in that run game, that looked like the Ravens Offensive old and it was working exactly in the way that they wanted it to. So that was clearly the game plan. And then a lot of the, even the throws to Mark Andrews, the one early in the game where he takes it back behind. So he's running the shallow crossing, takes it back behind the linebackers. That's what they were doing. It's like, all right, we don't trust you guys to play with anything close to good eyes and that's our entire offensive game plan and it worked. And so on defense, I

thought that they did such a great job of forcing the issue. They didn't blitz a ton in this game. But they, even when they weren't blitzing, even they weren't bringing five or more, a lot of pressure looks, a lot of simulated pressures, and on money downs,

on high leverage downs, they brought a lot of pressures that got home or influenced the play. And there's a lot of defensive back pressures. The safety's came off the edge multiple different times on third and short. And they just, when you look at what Herbert had been doing on third down, the Ravens plan was clearly, we're not going to let you be comfortable on these plays. Like, we are going to dictate the game to you in these moments.

And that pressure combined with a couple timely drops, just a little bit, not nearly as precise in those moments as they'd been over the first month of the season or so. And Mike Williams had a drop. Just little tiny things here and there. also just some strange decisions. There was a third and three where they had Echler out wide. They brought a pressure off the left side. Herbert had to get rid of it quickly, went to fourth and three.

On fourth and three, they decided to go to Josh Palmer working against Marlon Humphrey. It's like those are some of the most. Actually, that might have been Mike Williams. I think they went to Mike Williams on that play working against Humphrey. But later on on third down, they went to Palmer working against Humphrey. So a combination of not being comfortable and also just so. some strategic decisions in those moments that didn't work and just some really nice performances from the Ravens defense. I thought that Deshaun Elliott was incredible.

The couple blitzes he had that got home or almost got home, he had a sack, he had an interception. On the interception he had, I think they were in manned coverage, but he kept his eyes on Herbert the entire time as he was carrying Jared Cook up the seam. So he understood when he needed to make a play on the ball. Josh Bynes was like all over the place. That was, it's the type of performance from the Ravens that we'd gotten used to where it's everybody. Every, so many role players and guys further down the depth chart stepping up, making plays. They got contributions from all over the place today. And I don't know.

It just, this team is banged up. Like, I, Everett's going to be playing corner for them for the rest of the season, even when they get healthy. I mean, they have question marks, but it just feels like the amount of, of ways they can win right now and just how many different guys have stepped up for them, they seem like they're going to be a team in the AFC, which I didn't think was going to happen before the season with all the guys they end up losing. Yeah, I went on a show last week and they're like, so you still like the Ravens as your your division favorite. And I was like, I think like I think like I think I like them still, but it's like there's, it's such a total

different configuration than what I maybe thought. Yeah. I mean, it isn't, but it is. It's and even that like speaking to like how you said like the ravens like it's a different guy stepping up in like a vintage performance like just looking at their front and it's clias campbell but then like it's a nice mix of like youth and vets like justin houston's doing stuff but then the rookies are doing stuff and the metabuque is doing stuff like just different guys are just okay there's a tfel okay maybe he's not you don't hear from a guy for two quarters and then all of a sudden he shows up again on a third down it's like ah that and and on the flip side is it speaks to how smart Marlon Humphrey is as well, is knowing those stop routes and those isolated, iso ball situations,

those three by ones and what we say on the fourth downs, the Mike Williams and Josh Palmer, that's the downside of being in those formations is you really only can run X amount of routes. No pun intended, that's an ex-receiver, but just no, you only can run that certain amount of routes from that spot. So Marwan Humphrey's like, well, I can squat on a stop route or you're going to beat me vertical, especially if we're bringing pressure, you have to get the ball out quick. speaks to him how smart he is. And how smart those guys are understanding

how the coverage is tied to the pressures. They understand how all the pieces fit together. And I think that you see that. And that's exactly how they play today. That's how it felt today. So just an incredibly impressive performance by the Ravens. Another team that stood out again. I mean, it feels like we're going to talk about them every single week.

If they keep doing this, and that's the Arizona Cardinals. Yep. 37 to 14 over the Browns. They're still undefeated. No head coach today. No Chandler Jones. Jones today. And they just stomped the Browns who admittedly were very no Rodney Hudson today. Admittedly very hurt like the Browns are banged up in a way that even the Cardinals aren't right now.

But this was a definitive complete win by the Cardinals. I mean, it never felt like it was in doubt. Yeah. It's also it's never it's funny that a team dominated because if you saw this at the beginning of the game when they're showing the assistant receivers coach is the comms guy. They're showing their pictures. Shout out Spencer Whipple. Him and I were GA's together at Pitt. So shout out to Whip. Good job to gay, buddy. I don't even know if you listen to the show. But it's it's so like that I saw that.

I saw Ronnie Hudson was out. And I was just like, and this is my lukewarm lock in the week. So I cannot wait for Friday show. But it was like watching that. I was like, and they're still just doing shit. Like it's still Kyler just making plays. And it's still just defense stepping up. JJ Watts stepping up.

And Marcus Golden had a great game today. Isaiah Simmons running around to the right spots. Like it's like they had all. all these guys step up in it, but just watching like Kyler act like the 2004 Madden version of Mike Vic. Like that's what he kind of like is right now. Because like if you blitz them and you miss the tackle, it's like you're screwed. Like the, uh, you blitz them, they throw hot and you have D'Andre Hopkins like breaking

three tackles at the 10 yard line on a third and 10, third goal at the 10. Let's just throw them hot, which is exactly what the defense wants you to do. And he's just have Deandre Hopkins just throw two guys off and score a touchdown. It's like, okay, that's how you know it's your year. what it's like you're doing what the defense wants you to do and you're still scoring touchdowns. Like that's that's what the Cardinals are doing though. They've these great players and they're putting them out in space and they're letting them win. And then Kyler's getting them to ball because he can do that because he just creates so much.

But I I've been down. I always have about kind of like what the Cardinals do on offense. But they had a couple fun tweaks today. Like they did a four by one formation on third down where again, it was 0.1 personnel, four receivers, one tight end. And they had Ron Dale Moore as the inside guy. he chips and then he releases into the flat, Kyle Bricks contain throws it to him and he runs for the first down. But it's like,

when you have Rondale Moore has your checkdown option. Yeah, exactly. That's a good personnel that you, that's an explosive personnel unit that you have going. And they're leaning into it and they're doing well with it. And just even got stuff like James Connor late in the game. Like he might not do something for a half,

but then also that defense is worn down against Kyler. And it's like, all right, let's just hand it to our 240 pound battering ram. And you can tell that everybody on the defense is just like, No, I'm good. I'm good. I just chase Kyle or three straight plays.

I don't feel like taking a 240 to the chest. They're playing well. There are no plays off against this. No. I mean, you think about it, that third and 21 or whatever that they scored the touchdown on to Kirk. I mean, those plays are always available to this team. You cannot take a single moment or they're going to be able to just burn you to the ground. Speaking of Connor, early in the game, that third and sixth draw that they ran, that's right up your alley.

That's what you love to see. And that was, Humphreys just wiped out the safety on that play. And I want to say that Kyler checked into that because he saw that they had a light box and I think he checked into that. They ran a draw. And the left guard and the left tackle took J.O.K. to the safety. And Humphreys just wiped them out. They had a huge explosive play on a third and six draw. And they have so many backbreaking moments because if you let down for a single second, they were able to take advantage because of how well Kyle was playing.

And I think that you're pointing out that hot to Hopkins, that to me was the gap between these two teams today, is that if you want to send extra heat or you want to try to heat up the pocket in any way against Kyle, he has so many different ways to beat you. Yes. I know Baker's hurt right now. I know they were out there without the two starting offensive tackles and their starting swing tackle. But when you bring extra bodies at him, he doesn't have easy solutions. several different times in this game where they're bringing more than the Browns can block and he's just hanging on to the ball.

There was a fort down inside the red zone where Beckham just comes, they're not enough guys. You have to understand you cannot hang on to this thing. Beckham's on the left side. They have three receivers to the right. He's just staring down Higgins waiting for him to come open

as Beckham's coming underneath. And he gets sacked and the play is over. It happened multiple times where he's just hanging out of the ball, hanging on to the ball, even when they're bringing extra pressure and when they're playing man behind you. He was blitzed 10 times today. He was sacked three times and he finished five of seven for 31 yards. Jeez. I mean, they don't have enough ways to beat you at this point when they're banged up like this. When they don't have the ability to dictate the game to you, when there's no Nick Chub, when there's no offensive tackles in the game script instantly.

goes the wrong direction, you can understand how things can kind of slowly fall apart for this team. And I think that's exactly what you saw today. Yeah. They have no way to pivot. And that's, that's why you need these quarterbacks that get you a bucket. And that's what you talk about. That's why, that's where the tier starts and stops is like, is this guy creating for you or is he not? Okay. That's, that's really the tier cut off before you get to the top eightish guys. And, and man, it was just a But what would be I mean, that's what it felt like. It really was. It just did.

It felt like Browns were hopeless on offense. Like it just was like, and then, you know, when a hunt goes down, it's just like, oh, boy. And and Baker's taking the sacks. Like they had five total sacks, but I, you brought the double clutching. And it's just that's exactly it. Sometimes you're not hot, but you know you're warm. Exactly. What that means is I, I know, okay, I have an answer.

I know I'm protected, but we have five one-on-ones going. I can rid this ball because I don't, I don't, I don't, trust so and so against JJ Watt. So, okay, okay, I got to get rid of this ball. You, when you're this long into your career, he has plenty of reps by this point. He's got to understand. That clock's got to be quick. You got, even if you go, oh, shoot, that's not open.

That hot route I was going to throw that route. Sail it to the stance. Don't make a bad play worse. Just punt. Just like, whatever, move on. But he's not athletic enough to create and do that. He's just a different type of quarterback from these other guys that want to do that extend plays.

Speaking of which, it's like, Kyler, who can do all the creation. stuff is doing all this like awesome stuff from the pocket, which he has shown before, but just on a new level. Like there's a third down. I want to tell. It was a third in 10 after Baker's fumble, one of the fumbles. Sorry. There were multiple fumbles.

So it was just like as I went by. But it's, uh, but the Browns brought pressure and they brought a safety to cut like any in breakers, which we've seen so many teams do. The Cardinals had double in breakers. And rather than throwing the intermediate one, which would, would have gotten the first down. It was about 10, 10 yard endbreaker. It was almost like a, like a dagger or a double drift, double post kind of concept you'll see in like, seeing offenses. So rather than take the inside endbreaker with the safety cut, he takes AJ Green on the deep one.

He hangs in a pocket against pressure, a little short Kyler hangs in the pocket, hung in there, hung in there, waits that extra half second and just whips that in there, 20 something yard gained, huge conversion after the fumble, boom, big third and 10 conversion that could have gotten off the field. But it's like, Kyler didn't go read. Oh, the safety cut it. Time to scramble. He went, nope, I'm resetting. Whom, throws it right in there.

And it was like, oh, shit, he's evolved. How many answers do you have? How many answers can you give us? And I think you saw the two worlds today with those two backs. You saw how drastic and how stark the difference is. The Browns can win with Baker Mayfield. Yeah. Like in the red circumstances, they can.

but it's so much easier when the circumstances don't have to be right. And that's exactly what the Cardinals did today. He doesn't have to be right all the time. You have answers that your quarterback can find. And that's the place that he's in right now. And when you combine that with all the talent they have on the other side of the ball, I don't think Vance Joseph was worried for a second today. I don't think he was on the edge of his seat for a single second today.

And I think that when you're playing against Kyla Murray or Dak Prescott or Lamar Jackson, the feeling as a defensive coordinator is much different. I just don't think when you're playing against Baker at this moment, when they're not completely the version of the team that they want to be, you're scared. You're sweating for a single second. Yeah. The two-minute drill last week is the best summary of it against the Chargers.

When Baker got the ball back to try and put them ahead with 40-ish seconds, no timeouts, It was like, well, Chargers got this, which is like, oh, no, that's, you know, if you're a Browns fan, it's like you, if as a, if you're not fearing or the other opposing team is not fearing with the other guy getting the ball, like a Mahomes or Rogers or Kyler now or Justin Herbert, all these guys, Josh Allen, Lamar. It's not a guy. And it's, yeah, that's where he's at. Like you said, he's plenty past the bar where you can win with him, but it's just not that creation level that the top guys have. And again, it's hard. Like, it's hard. It's hard.

And it's hard. All right. It is time now for the State Farm surprisingly great performance of the week presented by State Farm. I wanted to talk about the Jaguars. Getting their first win today, a couple really nice moments.

I think this is as much about the dolphins as it is about the Jaguars, which we'll get into here in a second. But the Jags had some really nice moments today. I thought them going for it on 4th and 6 from the 35 with 53 seconds left in the first half where Lawrence has really nice ball placed to Chenalt, who falls forward for the first down on the next play, he rips a ball to Marvin Jones

down the right sideline. And so they were benefited from a couple decisions today, even though choice at the end of the game on that with eight seconds left running a play and knowing we can get down and still get a timeout. So a couple situational things from Urban Meyer that I think he deserves credit for. He does. It shocked me. There are a million different moments in this game where they had first and first and

15 for no good reason. So it's not as if everything is going well, but they had a couple nice moments. And I think the most encouraging part of this game is just all of the splash plays that you saw from Trevor Lawrence. And just the, you can hang on to a bunch of different things if you're a Jacks fan. It's like, all right, we're one in five. It's another lost season.

But this guy continues to make four or five plays a game where it's like, all right, I can talk myself into this. Yeah, he's, he is the real. real deal. I don't care if it's week six. It's like he is what he has shown and I know this team's awful and all that stuff. What he has shown so far, starting, it's been glimpses of it throughout the season, but really starting the Thursday night game against the Bengals. And then so, so the last three games is where it's kind of been a lot more consistent. And he's taken the real, I wouldn't say bonehead plays, but the too aggressive place where he's like, I know I'm on my

shitty team, coach Byer, but Meyer, screw it. I'm going for it out 1317. And folks, pushed to the ball. I think he had some awareness about what situation he wasn't as well. But just the total package of him, like not only just his athleticism and his height and just the arm strength and the accuracy, but just this intelligence, he handles everything. And trust me, there's guys, I've seen this multiple times throughout this year. I don't know if it's the receiver coach or what it is with the Jaguars, but the receivers have issues in Jacksonville, just even getting lined up sometimes. And I see Trevor Lawrence a rookie. They break the huddle. And this happens. there's some guys that are like this.

There's some really good players that are like this that they don't really know the play call. And they just have, they need a guy to tell him where to go. But there's Trevor Lawrence a rookie just going, hey, Marvin Jones, you're over here. I'm not knocking those guys, but I'm just saying, hey, Marvin Jones, go over here. Chanel, you're right here. James Robertson flip over right here. You're strong. You're strong.

No flip over right there. And he's handling all that, looking at the play clock. Pay change into protection. And he shows this like, not just once where it's like he knows what that play is, but it's like every snap. And it's like, whole shit. And then on top of it, just. just the athleticism to create movement in the pocket. Like just seeing what watch Trevor Lawrence.

That to me is the most impressive thing. Watch him work left. That is the most incredibly athletic thing to watch a 6-6 quarterback do. Watch Trevor Lawrence work to his left, either on a sprint out or a naked where he gets to turn his shoulders or when he's backpedaling in the pocket and working left and flipping his hips. That is incredibly impressive. That is like 0.001% athlete stuff. And he's the quarterback doing that. who's also cerebral.

It's, sorry, I know we're talking about the Jaguars win, but what he does and all three levels of throws, he hits benders. Like he hits,

he's creating, he's throwing a cross back over the middle. The scene ball and agony today was beautiful throughout. I know. And then the back shoulder throw to Marvin Jones

was another just like fantastic throw. But to me it was that him navigating the pocket and throwing on the move. And when he, it's so funny because we're talking about quarterbacks, if that's not open,

all right, how do I scramble? If I'm, he never freaks out. He is never uncomfortable. If something starts to break down, he tries to reset, but always with his eyes downfield. He's always trying to make a play. And he never looks frantic when he's moving in the pocket.

He's always moving with a plan. He's always moving to reset to throw. And for a guy that young with that skill set to have that sort of handle and that level of just calm in those moments is very impressive. A couple other guys in the Jags I want to talk about, Matthew Wright, their kicker. I mean, this is a guy who is on a practice squad and comes through in a huge, huge way for them today. And the other one, there was a play today where it was, so Wilkins gets the strip sack of

Trevor Lawrence. And then I believe on maybe the next play from scrimmage, two throws like a mind-boggling interception. Oh, my God. Just horrific interception. But the reason that pick happens, they tried, it was. and run play action, which is the only thing that the Dolphins offense can do at this point. It's like RPO's in play action.

That's all they got in the passing game. And so they try to run a play action throw with, I think it was Gisicki kind of sitting down in the middle of the field. Shack Quarterman is a linebacker for the Jags, robots back so hard into that throw. So what happens is on play action, if the linebacker steps forward and there's something happening behind him, they teach linebackers to literally turn around so you're not facing the line of scrimmage anymore and you run to get back underneath routes. He does this perfectly. And instead of Tua being able to hit this route over the middle of the field, he has to go back outside

and just for whatever reason lets this ball go to Matt Collins that gets picked off. So just those little moments like that without that play by the linebacker, that is not an interception. And the Jags maybe don't win this game. He had a couple nice moments in this game. Quarterman did. And it's so, you know, good for those guys. You know, well done. You get your first win.

You get some splash plays and some really impressive, encouraging moments from your young quarterback. I mean, this, you need these. It's going to be a bad season in Jacksonville, but there is stuff from today that they can absolutely latch on to. Yeah. Does Trevor Lawrence look okay? Does James Robinson look okay? All right. A couple of receivers do some stuff.

All right. A couple defenders. All right. That's what the season is. And don't embarrass yourselves. But we've already, we've maybe haven't done that. so well so far in six weeks but it's but honestly what you can do as a jaguarish fan is is take you know take solvice and knowing that chever lawrence is a legitimate franchise quarterback and i could say that

six of two months into his rookie year but it like i love that too is that the field goes were hilarious because it was like i don't think urban thought they were going to go with for sure because he just had his head down the entire time like why did i do this like why and he kicked the first one And I thought that thing was going through to the tunnel. He had a nice draw on it. Oh, yeah. Just bring it back in. Kevin Harlan was like, nope.

Oh, oh, it's good. But he actually had to walk it back and like Trent Green got on him a little bit. It was, yeah. But hey, drew it in. He was in a country that appreciates kicking. So good on him. Where to go, Jack? Congrats to the Jags who had the surprisingly great performance of the week.

Because remember, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. Before we move on, though, I do want to talk about the dolphins really quick. Okay, good. They're one in five now. Yeah. They lost to the Jaguars today. They did?

I understand they didn't have Byron Jones. They didn't have Xavier and Howard. That doesn't explain why they couldn't score more than 20 points against the Jags. I can see Jax. Against this defense, man. So you have Liam Eichenberg playing left tackle for them today, which meant Austin Jackson bumped over to left guard. Kevin Harlan mentioned Liam Eichenberg blocking

like 17 times in this game. It's what he was watching apparently when the ball was snapped. It's fine. Kevin Horwin's great at his job. Be like, Leah Micahenberg with the block there. It's like, yeah, he does it every play. Like, I'm confused as to why this is happening. But them moving their first round left tackle, they drafted last season to guard in the middle of the year.

They still haven't figured out those spots. Two have played fine today. Yeah. But overall, this is a team that it wasn't supposed to be like this. No. This team at one and five, they traded back up. up in the draft. They are currently as it stands, giving the number two overall pick to the dolphins, or excuse me, to the Eagles for the right to draft a receiver that has like a

Jalen Waddle might be fine, but like this team wasn't a Jalen Waddle away. They're one in five now handed away a top five pick. This is a nightmare situation for them. I was going to say that move was like a cherry on top move. That was like, hey, this is our final flourish. And I'm like, this is this is the prestige like this is the the the onus of our trick i know like jam wattle went 10 catches for 70 yards waddle who runs a 4-2 and change 10 catches 70 yards and he looks fine like he looks he looks he looks he looks fine he looks fine but you don't take again 5 9 180 pound receivers in the top 10 and especially don't move up for him when you got other guys like devonte smith you know that would have been available or if you had to go receiver it had to go receiver

if that was your what you had to do in this draft i mean there was other ways to go it. But it just looks rough. It's it's the fact that it's like this unit looked like the worst unit out there. But I mean by you and I mean the whole team like they looked like the sloppy ones. They looked like the ones with watching Tua and Trevor Lawrence go head to head. It was like it was that was a very stark contrast to see those quarterbacks where they're supposed to be your franchise quarterbacks. And I think that kind of sums up. Not really. It doesn't sum up where both franchises are, but it sums up where the dolphins are. Because I was to say, Trevor Lawrence does not properly reflect where the Jaguars are at this point. And this game

could have been even worse. I mean, they didn't get a fourth and one. They had a turnover in the red zone. I mean, this game could have been much more, even more lopsided than it was. I mean, it absolutely could have been a touchdown plus Jaguars victory. And this is just not where the dolphins were supposed to be. There are going to be some really hard questions. I think they have to ask themselves in the offseason. Why don't you explain this to me, like I am an eight-year-old. All right. Every week we have a couple teams that we need to explain to us what happened.

That's Sunday. And today I want to talk about the Panthers and the Broncos, both of whom are now 3 and 3 after starting 3 and 0. And here's why this matters. I think it's because there are some real questions that we have to ask what happens next for these teams, based on some of the choices they made this offseason, and now what their trajectory looks like.

So Sam Darnold today finishes 17 to 41 for 207 yards. A bit misleading, right? Just an insane amount of drops, but he also didn't play well. So now, over the past three weeks in this three-game losing streak for the Panthers, Sam Donald ranks 32nd out of 33 quarterbacks in completion percentage over expectation. He's the only person who's worse is Trey Lance over the last couple weeks. He's 31st in EPA per play among quarterbacks over the last three weeks. I think he's somewhere in between the guy.

he was over the first three weeks of the season and the guy he's been over the last three weeks of the season. But now it's like, well, what the hell are they supposed to do? They have committed to him for like $18 million next year. What is he? What does this team look like? They gave away a second round pick in next year's draft to go get him. They just traded their third round pick to go get C.J. Henderson. I just don't know what their plan is supposed to be if he's going to play like he did today. Again, not helped by his receivers, but he was also actively bad today and has been for the last couple weeks. And while like getting or going for like a younger quarterback or a rookie quarterback, it's yeah, you're starting a rookie quarterback. That's where you're kind of the bed you're making.

But at least you're setting yourself on a freaking path that you're like, you know, you know, the whole franchise knows now. Okay. Like do you think the bears now? We went over the whole Dalton stuff. But now that with the fields at quarterback, it's kind of like, okay. At least we know now. Like now we can, Every other move you make now is a reflection of that quarterback because I don't know if you know this. I know you know this, Robert, but people listening. I don't know if you know this, but you need a quarterback to win in the NFL. You do. You do.

You need a guy. We just bragged on Baker who's done to have some fine performances. We just got on him a little bit because you have to be a legit guy. Like you just do. Otherwise, you need a very, very good team around you. You can win that way. But just the margin for error, which we've already talked about before, is so, so small. And it's, but if you now get a young quarterback and it's like, okay, we might take a half step back.

And, you know, he's going to have some bumps and bruises, make some stupid mistakes. But it's like at least everybody knows now what you're doing. Now when you do with the Sam Darnel stuff and like you said, it's it's somewhere in between. Like the they had an easy opening schedule as far as defenses they win against. They had some awesome game scripts. Wasn't he like, weren't they ahead like 75% of the time at one point? You know, and it's he had they did a good job for what they were doing. They're making the reads easy for him.

But now you kind of saw what happened when as the O line gets banged up. They weren't talented to begin with. But now they're on film now. The weaknesses get exposed more once you get more and more film out there. And now you see where Donald's inefficiencies and his blemishes really get, they get magnified as you see more that more gets put on him. And that's just what's happened. But that's the thing is if you get a young guy that,

okay, he's taking the same bunch of bruises or maybe has the same performances that Sam Donald is, he's younger, cheaper, going to put you just a whole different. time period, timeline now. And that's what those guys do. And so now it's like kind of kicking yourself because now it's like we're half measures and now we didn't really answer anything by doing this

and them being the Panthers. I don't know if this team is better with Justin Fields or Mack Jones or whatever. That's not the argument that I'm trying to make. But like you said, the Panthers chose a different path forward. Because, I mean, even if they have to get rid of Darnell that they want to trade him or whatever, they're still on the hook for that 18 million bucks.

It's guaranteed. Like, they chose a different door. The Broncos chose to just not open a door at all. They're just like, we're just kicking this thing down the road. And I can understand why Denver chose to do that. Now, we have to ask how long, how much longer the Vic Fangio era lasts? Like, they're three and three. I mean, obviously not going to end tomorrow.

But this is kind of, was my concern about Denver coming into the season. It's like, are they just going to be another also-ran team? And if that's the case, then what happens now? Like, where do they go from here? and they have like $55 million in cap space next year. They have a ton of flexibility, and that's kind of what I mean. They didn't go down any sort of path. They got to put themselves in a holding pattern this year, and I think that's where they are.

So now it's like, all right, where do we go now? Like, we didn't take a quarterback. Are we going to be bad enough to take one next year? Do we go back into the veteran market? With Carolina, they went a different way. And now, like you said, if you're not going to build around that guy and try to find one the guys in the draft and say we can figure this out a different way. It's the same way we talked about with Cleveland. It's just harder. It's just so much harder to get there. And so you kind of walk into

this murky situation scenario where it's like, all right, what are we supposed to be? What are we trying to accomplish? And I think both of those teams have kind of fallen into that place. Again, I don't know if they're better with a rookie quarterback right now, but they definitely have a clear direction with a rookie quarterback right now, just like you alluded to. Yeah. And you can even lump in the Falcons in this conversation. Yeah. I mean, you really get.

And it's there, they're, you know, have a tougher start of the season, even even with other teams going three and three. But it, that's exactly it. It's what I think it's more you want to compare, compare quarterbacks only to NBA stars. In the sense that and like NBA teams, I think they have really figured out. It's like, oh, we don't need one type of guy. we need our stars. You definitely need one of the top 10, 15 guys in the league.

But then you have to build the rest of the system around that guy. But you still need that guy. That guy is a necessary component part. You need the guy. And then you have to go, okay, we're identifying this guy as our guy. And then we're going to lean into it. We have Nicola Jokic. Okay, now we're going to run a high post and run all the stuff off of him.

Okay, maybe if it's not the guy, maybe if it's not where you want to be, are you sure? Like, okay, we're getting somebody's also rams. We're getting the Sam Darnels of the world. We have old Matt Ryan. We have Teddy Bridgewater, all fine options. But now it's, if you go with a younger, what you're hoping to be a star, then you could just build everything else around that skill set. That if you have a Justin Fields, all right, what's run 99, what's run the play action stuff?

Now, if Donald's not the answer, then everybody else is like, well, that's just the offense we ran for that year with Sam. It was different than the offense we ran last year with Teddy. Next year might be different. CMC, we're going to get you open in a different way. It's like, you're just not building anything. It's just half measures. And I think as a franchise, for better for worse, you have to take full measures, whether it's right, whether it's wrong. I just always see issues with franchises that take half measures and try to kick the can down the road.

I think that's exactly right. And this year has been really a reminder to me and kind of open my eyes a little bit about just how important having one of the guys is. Because I've kind of try to talk myself into different versions of it, right? Like in my mind, you know, the Niners are three or four plays away from winning a Super Bowl with Garapola. Like, man, the Rams are three or four plays away from running a Super Bowl with golf.

You can do it. Like, you can do it. If you do all the other stuff right, you can do it. But I really, it feels like you're kidding yourself at this point. Like, if you're not making the huge swing to try to get one of the guys. Yeah.

It feels like you're doing yourself a disservice just because of how high the degree of difficulty is to build the rest of it around him. And that is the choice that the Panthers made. Yeah. Like even if they think they can get a better version of Sam Donald, which they have, they undeniably have, this argument of, well, now we can get a top 10 corner and Sam Donald.

That's why we did it this way. It's like, okay. Yeah. Well, what does that do? Yeah. And I understand the thinking and I understand how you get to that place. But I think that this year in the first month and a half of the season, has just been such an indication of how flawed that think it can be.

Because when you watch these teams, we have one of the guys, which has come back to so often tonight, it feels different. It just feels different. And I don't know if I can remember a time. And maybe it's because of how dynamic the athletes at the position are. Maybe it's because we've reached a point where you can't win with defense in the NFL.

Like, you can't just have the best defense in the league and have it carry you. You can't win with a running game. The way that the game has progressed has gotten to a point where you have to be able to score 30 points consistently to be a really good team. And if that's the case, you need a quarterback who can help you do that. So I just think all these different factors have helped us arrive in this place where it is so apparent that you need one of the guys. And if you're not doing everything you can to go get one of the guys. And if you're not sitting there when you don't have one saying, what can we do to get one? Then I think you're just spinning your wheels.

I think you're just running in place. And that's what it feels like with a lot of these teams. And it's also a recognition of just the market. I think this offseason was the craziest year to get a QB, like a craziest in the sense that there was options. There was ability. If you had imagination, you could figure out how to get a QB. I think this offseason, whether your options personally were or as a team. And knowing what this next QB draft is, I've been able to take my first glance at the top 10, 15 QBs in the past few weeks.

It's not great. It's not great. Not a single guy I gave had a better grade than Mack Jones at this point in time than I gave last year. So the number one I have right now is Desmond Ritter from Cincinnati. So keep eyes on him. But it's not a great class. But that's also an awareness as a franchise. If you're a decision maker going like, holy crap, there's five legit QBs in this class.

there's Matthew Stafford's on the market. I know they had a trade the boatload to get these guys, but that's the thing is they Who cares? It's not a half measure. It's a full measure. They were like, hey, we planted our foot and we go. We want to tell runnbacks to do that. Sometimes the decision makers have to listen to themselves.

You know, they want to tell everyone else, hey, make a decision. Hey, do this. Hey, play fast. Make a mistake fast. Well, guess what? Sometimes a decision maker has to make the mistake fast. And it just seems like a lot of these teams just don't want to do that. Yeah, I mean, it's, it takes a lot.

I mean, it's a dangerous thing. It comes with a lot. lot of inherent risk to do something like that. When you take one, the clock starts. Undeniably, when you take one, the clock on you starts. And that makes it scary. But, God, it just feels like, what do you do otherwise? Go out swinging. What are you doing? Yep. Gotta. You just got it. It's your chance. It's your chance to be in that position. It's such a rare role that you get. You're one of 32 head coaches or one of 32 GMs or decision makers. it's like don't you want to go out your way as opposed to going like well it wasn't the right

decision at the time because of the risk and it's like no like no balls no blue chips i mean no risk it no biscuit no biscuit i mean that's everything in sports it's why i respect what the eagles have done yeah it's like all right well if we don't know if we have a guy so we have given ourselves all the ammunition possible to try to find one next off season it's not the right draft to be looking for one but when you have three potential picks in the top 12 you can ability to pivot some way to go find your guy because if you don't have one you're in a lot of trouble yes all right one more quarterback performance than i need some explaining with today and that was dan jones just a nightmarish day for dan jones dan jones has 6.4 qbr today three picks one

one almost had another one on the first drive in the game inside his own 10 yard line right off the bet. So we, he was playing much better earlier in the season. We talked about it. He was playing well, but one of the things we talked about is that these just shit plays that would doom him in the past had started to disappear. This is a pretty rough day and it is a regressive day. Negative 9.6 completion percentage over expectation today. Negative 0.27 EPA per play for Dan Jones today. and the plays were as bad as you want them to be. I mean, it's not as if it's like, oh, it's a tip ball here. It's a tip ball there.

It was brutal rewatching every single mistake he made in this game. I think the worst plays that you see a quarterback make, sometimes it's the picks, but I think really the worst ones is when you see the quarterback in the pocket, he wants to throw and he double clutches and he starts to shift his eyes and he like opens up his body. And then here comes the defender just coming in. It's like Dan had about four of those today. It was like, oh, no, we're talking about Baker.

Hey, you're not hot. You're warm. Dan Jones is one of the worst at this. And this is why he has so many turnovers. You appreciate the aggression. You appreciate keeping his eyes down the field. You appreciate him trying to read out these concepts. But again, when things get murky on him, he's not the quickest processor.

He's a very pre-snap, great, post-snap, eh. And it's sometimes when you're going to be in, you're going to live in that world. You got to get a ball out quick. And the ramps today, we're either bringing up. We saw a lot. I felt like Rehyn Mors brought a lot more pressure today, but I get it. I get seeing how to results. I get why you did. Or they dropped everybody out and it looked like they flooded the coverage. Like if the giants were in trips a lot, they were really pushing everybody. Yep. And pushing, pushing flooding it. And that's where you can see Dan Jones going like, oh, I got to get to my backside. Guess what? Aaron Donald doesn't wait for you to get to your backside. You got three seconds. Just make it muddy for him. And that happened a bunch. And the first Taylor Rap pick was beautiful because I think he thought he was going to come off on. that shell across and wrapped his red his eyes and went back to the guy in the second level, picked it off, which is a great play. Great play.

But it's here's why. And here's why I want to talk about the Giants a little bit. It's similar to what we've been talking about. This team's one and five now. All right. You know how much cap space the Giants have next year? It's tight, isn't it? It's like $445,000.

If going off of a $208 million cap on over the cap right now, they currently have $445,000 in cap space. No way. This is not a team. This is not a rebuilding team. No. This is not a team that was feeling out this season. They have committed to this roster.

There are a couple moves they can make. They can move on from like Sterling Shepard or like Blake Martinez if they want to. Two steps forward, one step back. None of it really matters. They can free up some money. But again, a question of where are you? What are you doing? Where are you going?

There is no answers with this team right now. and what do they do with their quarterback situation? He hasn't even been the biggest problem for most of this year. He was bad today, but they have a lot more stuff to worry about than him. So just them and the dolphins, both of whom it's like, all right,

well, can we take a big step forward this year and now sitting here at one and five? I mean, it's not a fun place to be. And both of them, what's even more disappointing is their units that we thought were going to be friskey, the defenses were like, yep,

eh? Like, it's not even like where it's, on where I'm like trying to find clips of them to post on Twitter and go like, hey, like check out this cool shit they're doing. It's like no. It's like I, it's not good. Like, they,

they had a couple plays today. They got after Stafford a little bit, but it's not like we're anything to write home about even though they have players that I do like. And speaking just to the offense too, it's like what you said, they're all in. Like they. Yes. These last couple, I mean, bringing Kenny Galladay in and then, you know,

going with Tony and just like restocking up all those guys. It's like, no, they were like going like, no, we're getting damage. Jones were on a rookie contract. I don't know if Gettleman knows anything about rookie contract. Maximizing everything around it. But it's like it's a lot of franchises there like scared of failing to rebuild or scared of going completely all in or doing the right decisions. And they end up like this in no man's land and just hoping it's like, hey, it's NFL.

We might get, we might get a couple great breaks. But it's like, no, you're just acting. You're trying to be respectable but losing money. Like, you know, it's like putting on a good show at a like a failing organization. like a failing bank, but at least hey, you dress nice and you show up on time. Like that's what they're trying to do. It's like they're trying to fail respectfully, but like at least we failed with honor.

That's why I feel like the Giants are doing a little bit right now. They have an extra first round pick next year. They have the Bears first round pick, which looks like it'll probably be in the middle of the first round somewhere. But what does that get you? Do you, are you going to be in the market for one of the veterans that might become available? Like, let's say this team trades for Russell Wilson, even though they don't really have any cap space.

So how is that going to work out? I mean, again, it's, they have some room to pivot, but not a ton. And it leaves some real questions about where they are, which has been a common theme today. Not today, my good man. I'm feeling saucy. All right. It's time for this week's secret sauce. Every week you like to pick kind of a subtle part of a team's game plan or a certain concept

that played a big role in them winning that week. And you wanted to talk about a certain route concept that the Vikings used today in a big spot. Yeah, a drought concept and route name. I've been known to, I've been known. I've been places where this is called the stool route. It was Adam Thielen's touchdown today in the low red zone. They caught in the front corner of the end zone. And what the stool route is is what's the route that everyone bemoans near the goal line?

The goal line fade. And what a stool route is is it's a playoff, the goal line fade. The receiver is going to sell like the run of the fade and they're going to work back down. to the front pylon. They're going to sit on the stool. And that's hence the name. And Randy Moss was the master of this route. Randy Moss was the master of fades.

So let's have a change up off of that. This is one of the changeups he had. He's also pretty good at slants because he didn't have to get tackled. That's why he was okay to run slants in a red zone. Like seriously? Because he knew he could just catch it and just be like, yeah, I'm good. Like that's why he was really good at those in the red zone. But in the field, eh, didn't really want to run the slants.

But anyways, but Randy Moss could just, he would sell these fades because the corners were working their asses off to stay on top. and he would just run underneath the front pylon. Really good route runners. This is the best route for. Michael Crabtree was good at it. I've seen the chiefs run out with Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelsey. Travis Kelsey is like the perfect type of guy for it.

Good route runner and a big body. And what it is is in the low red zone especially, it's you're attacking horizontal space or you're trying to create horizontal space. I talked about it before when we're talking about the Cowboys briefly was DAC, you know, breaking contain because the Patriots are dropping eight into coverage. He's just creating new windows. And why you'll see a lot of teams run sprint outs in the low red zone on a two point play inside the five yard line, trying to create new windows. You're trying to change the launch point.

Those corners are taught, hey, I'm going to inside. I'm going to play inside leverage. Now, so no quarterback's moved eight yards to the right. And that angle has changed that he's trying to defend. Also, they're bringing pressure. Sprintout protection is safe against pressures because it's just how it is. It's seven man. You slide it up, yada, yada, yada.

But that's what you see with a lot of these things is why you see sprint outs in the low red. but why you see this route and it's called a stool route or at least that's what I've known it as. This is also why you see shovel routes in the low red zone. Again, you're attacking horizontally, getting everything to widen and spread out and you just hit it up right inside. And it's technically a passing concept, but it's really a run game thing. Shovels really just power. But that is kind of what this is and that's why you see a lot of sprints. What I've kind of really seen too is offenses getting creative and how they disguise these sprintouts.

It used to be if you saw formation, you saw one by three tied in over here or it trips and the running back was strong to create a four by one, spread out. You're like you could just flags, orange flags, wave it, whatever. And especially older offense coordinators like Jason Garrett's one of them. Look for it on that. They don't know how to disguise this stuff and they don't run four by one concept. So it's like a big red flag. But now you're seeing teams really, really learn how to disguise that motion to tide end over, flip the back. So you hide him.

Just little things like that. But be on the lookout for stool routes and sprintouts in the low red zone because this is a way to beat the two three, two, three defenses of football. Like you see in basketball, how do you defeat a two three zone in basketball? Penetrate and kick. That's what a sprint out does. You're penetrating, getting the defense to commit, changing the angle and hitting them on the outside. So yeah, look for the stool routes, look for sprint outs. And that's what you see from offenses in the low red zone.

What as a defense, how do you account for that? Like if you're the corner on that play, like what is what's in your mind? If you're going against Adam Thielen in that moment today, would you have to take a new account? Well, you have to play. Well, first off, you're playing the heavy inside because you're going to try and take away to slant. So if I'm playing against that fade, it's really just have to get body and not over commit. But that's really hard to do in the heat of the moment. And that really comes with film study.

And if Thielen hasn't shown that route, which I don't think he has. I don't remember the Viking. I'm sure they've done it in the past, but at least this year. So if that corner has never seen that shit, also they're just like, oh, it's a fade. It's a fade. It's a fade. It's a fade. Oh, we got to watch for the slant. Oh, it's a fade. All right. I'm just going to trot on his inside hip. And also he just went straight back. So really, it's film study. And if you're playing leverage wise, I think it's just playing it slow. But the thing is, if you play it's long enough to play high, play high balls. So it's a pain the ass. I think that's the best way to put it. I think it's the best way to summarize this route. There's also a really good ball placement by cousins. Oh, my God. You have to, that's part of this is that you got to have a guy that can really fire that thing in there. I mean, low in a way is where that that's. going to work. Lo it away.

You have to have a quarterback that can make that happen. All right. Our last segment today, we got to figure out who's got the belt. You will. Every week. It's great. We picked someone who was just a little bit of a cut above that week, every single Sunday. Always enjoyable.

The random wrestling drops that we do not know are coming from Kent. Every week. I think that we have to give the belt to a guy who essentially was a wrestling character today and actually gave himself the belt when he scored a touchdown, it kind of broke the bear's back. I'm giving it to Aaron Rogers for multiple different reasons today. Yeah, he tombstoneed you guys as that was Undertaker there. That's what he did. That was, yeah, that was a dagger. That was like, as a neutral fan who was a Bears fan for three years, even I felt that one. And I haven't been a fan of the Bears in nine years. I mean, what a moment. I mean, to

to score that touchdown and start screaming, all my fucking life, I own you. I own you. I half expected mean Gene Ogreland to come in with the microphone. It was like an actual wrestling shoot. I mean, he turned into like an actual wrestler.

Like just doing some sort of promo in that moment. It doesn't get any better than that. Like it doesn't get any worse for me. But, and because it's so true. I mean, that clip that was going around of that guy on Packers Reddit or whatever, being like this guy just tearing out my soul every single I mean that's exactly what it is the fact that he can just sit there and be like I own all of you to a stadium full of tens of

thousands of people and what are we supposed to say yeah it's like well yep I guess that's true I mean it's it's miserable yeah like it's it's it's it's so the ECW back in the day in like the 90s like a lot of guys would like shoot like wink wink nudge nudge they're shooting and that's called a worked shoot. So now we're getting into all the, all the wrestling phrases, all these carny phrases. But yeah,

but the worksuits were always the best. Can I tell you a quick wrestling story? And this is John Harbaugh's college roommate is, it was this wrestler named Brian Pilman. And Brian were Brian Pilman. Yeah, Flying Brian. So Flying Brian was in,

he was in the WCW. He was in ECW. He was with the Heart Foundation. He was a four horseman. He was with all the big groups. As everybody knows, all these wrestling groups. But it's, but in WCW,

tag team with Steve Austin right before Stone Cold became big. They were called the Hollywood Blonde. Can you imagine Stone Cold wasn't a group called the Hollywood Blonde? So he was doing his like new gimmick. He was the loose cannon. And he was shooting during, during real like WCW worldwide. He was shooting.

He was talking real. He was talking about the stuff behind the business or behind the back in the business. And so what he did was he was faking that he was being like off script and only one that knew it was Eric Bischoff that head of WCW. But what he said, he was like, hey, I'm going to make it so everyone thinks that you and I hate each other and you're going to fire me. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to go to ECW. ECW is like the neutral site. WCWWF for fighting. I'm going to go to ECW. I'm going to become a hot act, talk about how much I hate you. And I'm going to come back in like six months like as a hot act. And we just we just go to town

make a bunch of money. Eric Bischoff's like, yeah. So for months they're selling all the boys in the back. Hey, boom, like, oh, we're fighting. Oh, he's, he's going off script. We got to suspend him. Oh, I'm going to fire his ass. So he fires him. Ryan Pilman goes to ECW. works there for about two months. And he hops over to WWF, signs a guaranteed deal for like twice as much pay, guaranteed deal. But Vince McBand, they used to not do guaranteed contracts. The wrestlers was they, he gave me a guarantee contract because he goes, you're not leaving. I'm not letting you. You're not doing to me what you did to Eric Bischoff. So he worked the workers. He worked the boys. He fooled everybody into thinking that, oh, I hate everybody. I'm quitting. I'm going off script. And he already did. He just

doubled his paycheck. And he went off. This is John Arboros's roommate, college roommate. But working to workers, that's a work shoot for you. It's a, it's a fake. It's a fake. It's a fake. It's a fake. about what Aaron Rogers did to me today. And there was nothing fake about what he did in that moment. I mean, it's just, it was perfect. I mean, it's perfect for them. It was perfect for him. It was like how, so he's been over the last few months. I'm like, that's just kind of what it feels like. It just feels like an extension of the personality that he's kind of portrayed and how loose he's been with everything. I mean, that was a very – This is his gift this year.

Yeah, it was a very real, very authentic moment. And it legitimately did feel like a pro wrestling promo. So we have to give him the belt. Good for you, Aaron Rogers. Thanks for doing that to me just yet again. I mean, we don't have to belabor it whatever game from the Bears. I mean, like, Zach, Justin Fields is going to have some moments every single week. He's going to have some rough moments every single week.

I didn't expect them to win today, but I also didn't expect Aaron Rogers to tear my heart out in front of all of those people. That was the thing. It was just going to be another Packers win against the Bears. Okay, another one. And then it's just now we remember this one. That's the issue. And then just I own you is trending on Twitter the entire afternoon.

Really good stuff for me. All right. That's all. That's all we got this week. Guys, remember tomorrow's mailbag is with Mike Sando. I don't think I've said that yet, But it is with Mike Sando. 872-22-22-7073 is our voicemail line.

Please leave us a voicemail. We'd really appreciate that. You can also email us at athletic football show at gmail.com. Until then, we really appreciate you guys listening. We'll be back tomorrow with the mailbag. Talk to you guys soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.