The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Dane Brugler's 2022 NFL Combine first impressions

Episode Date: March 4, 2022

Who stood out in Combine workouts? What's the deal with "unofficial times?" Who better to talk about it with than our own Dane Brugler? Robert Mays and Dane sit down at the Combine to get Dane's first impressions as workouts press into the weekend. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. So the Athletic Football Show, I'm Robert Mays. Today's Friday, March 4th. Our last day, my last day, at the 2022 Scouting Combine here in Indianapolis. And I am thrilled to welcome our draft expert at the athletic. Man, this is his week. Dan Brugler. Dan, how you doing, man?

I'm doing great, Robert. This is, we really missed this last year. It, we really did. And so to be back here in Indianapolis, it's been a great week so far. And we've only had one night of testing. So we've got three more nights of seeing these guys on the field. It's, you always say you'll learn more at night than you do during the day. And I think that holds true every single year. So it's just been a great week. So we're going to get into what the workouts looked like yesterday, who stood out, who helped themselves, who didn't. But I do want to start with that thought. I was out until about three in the morning. last night. We're recording this at 9 a.m. So apologies to everyone for whatever my state is and how well I'm doing here. But I got kind of wistful last night on the walk back

home to the hotel. For people who don't know, so the way that it currently usually goes at night. A lot of people congregate in one area of town around all the hotels or one of the hotel bars. That shuts down around one or so. Lights come up and everyone has that moment of like, all right,

are we going to go home or we're going to keep going out. There's a steakhouse. across downtown and if you don't know I don't even know how I would explain it to someone yeah the steakhouse is open till four and it's going to be going till four and that's what it's like so you wander over there and you just see people and you have conversations and the whole thing can just be an absolute shit show and it's it's easy to get cynical about it but I kind of felt people being nostalgic about the idea this year and just what it's like here and how perfect the city is set up for the event and how rare it is and just the

conversations you can have because this might be it. This might be the last year that we have this in Indianapolis. And there's a reason it's been here for 35 years because the city is perfectly set up to do it. The people in the league like it here. Imagine how much inertia an event has to have and how well a place has to be set up for Indianapolis to hold this event for three and a half decades in the era of TV rights, in the era of primetime testing as the drafts start. it's moving around. But it really is that good here. When they built Lucas Oil Stadium, they did so with the combine in mind, with some of the medical equipment at stadium, with some of the setup, with just how the tunnels work with the sky bridge and everything. Like it's, yeah, it's winter.

It can be cold here in Indianapolis and in February, March, but you don't really have to go outside that much. No, you could walk inside. I did not go outside when I walked over here. My hotel is three quarters of a mile away. Exactly. And so it is perfectly set up just from a functional operation standpoint. But then also, like you mentioned, with the bars and the restaurants and everything, like other cities have that. It's just a little different here. It really is.

It's all self-contained. It's a convention center. Convention center city is what it is. 100%. And so it just works really well. And I think also geographically, you know, it's kind of in a center part of the country. So it's easier for. everybody from all over the country to come here and not be, you know, too crazy of a trip.

It's, it'll be interesting. There, I've talked to some people from, uh, different cities who are in town bidding on where the combine's going to be in future years. And so it could that be Frisco with the Dallas Cowboys facility at the Star? Could that be L.A? It could be here in Indianapolis. Indianapolis is still in the running. So I think that there will be change coming, um, over the next three to four years where the combine line looks like. But the location, that's very much an up in the air.

There are a lot of people around the league that I talk to or texts with or whatever. It's just different when you can just like run into them at the bar, sit down. How you doing? What about this? I ran into a position coach yesterday. We had a coordinator interview this year for the first time. How'd that go? It's like, ah, da-da-da-da-da. Just things that wouldn't happen. Otherwise, when you're not just running into people and beyond like the information trading, I think just the relationship part of the business is so you can nurture those things here in a really fun way. And I will miss it.

I've done it for, I mean, I think this is at least my 10th one. I mean, I think there were a couple years here and there. My first year was 09. I was a junior in college. And though back then they could not try anyone for this event. I think they probably still will. But I was 21 years old and I'm like, Peter King is in front of me at the coffee line. And at that point, it's the coolest thing in the world, right?

And even now, it's very, very different. But I still kind of get a kick out of the little idiosyncrasies that come with this that are unlike any other part of the NFL calendar on like anything else we do. And the idea of losing it in this form, it does make me a little sad. Sure, I know it is. And you can't, like, you just walk down the street where you walk through the convention center. You're going to run into a coach, a GM, a scout. So, like, it's just everyone's here.

And, you know, if that's how you build those. relationships that's how you network is by coming to an event like this where everybody is here so it's uh I really hope they do keep it here because it's it's such a great opportunity for for all of us and yeah you're like you like you kind of mentioned they're just more relaxed you know there's they're not to worry about a game plan they don't have to worry about you know you know like for the most part a lot of these gms it's this is a well-oiled machine in terms of you know how the interviews go in terms of how they you know watch the dream

and everything. It's not something they have to stress over. So this is a relaxing time for them. Some of them probably don't want to be here as long as a it's probably too relaxing for a Yeah, exactly exactly. So it's just a great week. It's always so fun to see the first year head coaches out because their chest are just a little bigger They're standing a little bit head taller. Those are always the guys who kind of own the week socially and I really respect that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they got a little more pep in their step It shows very much And good for them Good for them It's there's 32 of those jobs

You work your entire life to get one Nothing wrong with enjoying yourself A little bit when you get to kind of settle into your first offseason as a head coach That's right All right let's get into the workouts here Any overarching takeaways from last night If you just think about the first night of the NFL Combine workouts Primetime Thursday night

What is going to be the first thing you think about a week from now Well you know a lot of guys ran fast I think that wide receiver, like corner, is very much a stopwatch position. And so the 40-yard dash, it matters. Now, I think that we need perspective on some of these fast times. Like, for example, I pulled up the top 10, 40 times from three years ago. And that was the D.K. Metcalf, Terry McLaren draft. So top 10, wide receiver 40 times from that year, two studs, McLaren and Metcalf.

then you had two solid depth depth wide receivers McCle Hardman and Darius Slayton and then you've got four guys that have been disappointments Isabella is in there Paris Campbell Miles Boykin and then you've got two guys out of the league so you know the 40 times are great speed is great but out of the top 10 from three years ago we only have two guys that are established starters

It's a really good perspective so it's important to keep that in mind as we discuss these fast times you know the do you think it's almost a disservice. And this is kind of an NFL network type of thing, but the unofficial times, how different they were than the quote unquote official. And I think it's important to point out here, NFL teams don't care about the quote unquote official times.

It's a made up thing. They're going to use their own hand times. Why is that? Is it just because it's always been done that way? Isn't there a better way to do this? The main reason is so when they use their hand times at pro days, it's similar. So they're not using electronic times here, hand times at a pro day. Okay.

So it's a normalization thing. Right, exactly. So that's, and, you know, that makes sense. You know, you want kind of a level playing field type of thing as much as you can. So, but that's what teams are going to use their own. You know, some teams do it differently. Some teams will have, you know, they'll use two guys that, you know, get the times and then they'll use the average of those two times. Some will just have one and they use that time, you know, that's the focus on.

it's different from team to team. But yeah, these, the unofficial times that were broadcast on Unifle Network were so wildly different than some of the official times that came out for a little bit there. We thought Taekwon Thornton from Baylor had set a new record with a 421. He ends up with a 428, I believe. Chris Olivae's time was a 426. And he just, he was like, all right, I'm done. I'm, you know, drop the mic at 140 time for me and that's it. And he ends up with a 439.

So, you know, it's still, even though the times were not as fast as we were. originally thought, still a lot of these guys were blazing out there. The Olava thing was just, again, a fun moment very specific to this type of event, right? He runs it. I'm sitting at the table waiting for people to come to dinner. Deonté Lee from PFF walks in and you see Chris Olavere ran a 4-2, 640. And just watching it kind of spread and as people find out about it and the chatter that happens, it's very cool.

Again, it's a very specific thing to what you're doing here. And obviously it changes, but that like two hours running around a 4-4. two, six was a really exciting time. And even for people like, like, you know, us and people that have watched the tape and have seen him. Like, I put the over under on him at, uh, 433 before. And so really, so you thought he was going to run really, really fast. Yeah, he was, he's a 10-8 guy in the 100 meters in high school. Like speed is his thing. Um, and so I thought 433 could he get over under that? And initially thought, oh, well under that. And it turns out he was a little over. Interesting that Garrett Wilson, his teammate actually ran a faster 40. Uh, that was surprising.

I thought Garrett Wilson was going to be a solid mid-4-4-4-5, a good time, but not blazing. Garrett Wilson was 438, which is awesome for him. Tyquan Thornton, like I said, 428. Baylor brought a track team here. They've got a guy every single night that's going to impress. Thornton was last night. Tonight will be the running back tomorrow or the – yeah, tomorrow will be the linebacker, Terrell Bernard, and then on Saturday or Sunday will be Kalin Barnes and J.T. Wood.

So Baylor is going to run really do really well for themselves here. Calvin Austin, 432, 57, 58. His project is also really impressive. He's over 11 feet. Yeah. The shortest. He's from Memphis. And he couldn't get a scholarship to Memphis.

So he actually got a scholarship for track. After, you know, a little bit of that, he walked onto the football team and, you know, the rest is history for him. A little more money in football. A little bit. Yeah, yeah, a little bit. So, you know, Danny Gray from SMU ran a 433. If there's a darnel Mooney in this class, I think it's Danny Gray.

Okay. A guy who's got outstanding speed. Speaking my language now. Maybe a few more drops than you want to see, but going to go on day three, but could end up outplaying where they're drafted. Christian Watson from North Dakota State had a great, great showing, 436 and a 40-yard dash. He's really, really raw. I think, you don't think people talk enough about that, just how raw he is as a route

runner and, you know, everything he needs to do to get better as a receiver. But 30 and a half inch in the vert. It was over 11 feet in the broad. So these guys were really, really impressive. And we know how much they trained for this. And that is something that is a point of conversation with scouts when, you know, these guys, as soon as their season's over, they go directly to these speed camps and these, you know, whether it's Exos or Michael Johnson performance, wherever. And just work on these 40s, work on jumps. And they're not necessarily doing a ton of football specific things.

And so it is interesting. At some point, are we going to reach that moment where it's like, okay, these guys are just, they're trained so well. And they're so, you know, the 40-yard dash is just no longer an accurate representation of what these guys are football speedwise that we just move away from that. And we just rely on the GPS data. It feels like we're turning that way. It does. And I think, you know, sometime in the next five years, I think we're going to reach that point where it's a lot of these drills are going to be obsolete. Any other big picture takeaways?

Was there anything? I know how much you can take from the quarterback workouts is probably debatable, but anything from the tight ends and the quarterbacks that you thought, all right, that's interesting to me. Well, one other thing on the receivers is the relative low times for the three cone drill. Three cone drill is my favorite drill of the combine. You know, the L drill. You and Bill Bellochuk.

Yeah, no kidding. C. O. Bracado, legendary scout, who I learned under, he created the three cone drill. And it just, it helps show change direction, you know, your redirection, your movement skills. If you're stiff, you just, you can't escape the three cone drill. So, but looking at the wide receiver results, only two wide receivers this year had sub seven second three cone drills. And just for comparison purposes, five years ago, 23 receivers had under seven seconds in three cone. What do you think that could possibly be?

Just focusing so much on the 40, the straight line stuff. I don't, I really don't know. And it's not just like this is an off year. Okay, this is the last five years. Five years ago is 23, 18 wide receivers in 2018, eight in 2019, four in 2020, and then two this year. It's just, it's remarkable that the number has decreased steadily like that over the last five years. It's, I think there's plenty of, you know, maybe different conspiracy theories out there.

But I have not one that really makes a ton of sense. to me. It's fascinating. That's really, really interesting. I would be curious if someone did some digging on that, what they would come away with. Yeah. I think the quarterbacks, I thought, did okay. I don't think anyone necessarily, you know, bombed, you know, and did poorly. Malik Willis, it was a chance for him to show off. You know, he's got that explosive arm. He's got a power arm, can put the ball anywhere he wants on the field. And that showed. So I don't know that necessarily Malik Willis helped himself. He just, it was a chance for him to show off. And he did a nice job. I think it was a chance for some of the younger, or the, not the younger, but the lesser

known guys like E.J. Perry from Brown to show what he could do, you know, a guy like Bailey Zappy from Western Kentucky. So some of the lesser known quarterbacks had a chance to go out there and show what they had, and I thought they did well. Do you think Desmond Ritter running what he ran is something to take note of? Yes and no. It was expected. I mean, I tweeted before he worked out that he was going to be better than most receivers. He's that type of athlete. But I don't know that he necessarily uses that a lot, you know, on the field. And so it's great that he has the athleticism. I mean, you give me the athletes, no question. But on the field, I don't, he's just not that type of rushing threat. He can be when he needs to be. If there's, you know, 10 yards in front

of him, he's going to take him. But it's not necessarily the same when you're talking about Malik Willis or some of these other quarterbacks that rely a little more on their mobility. Any other receivers that you haven't mentioned that you thought to help help themselves a little bit yesterday. Sky Moore. I thought he was, he ran well. I was told he was going to run in low 4-4s and he ran a 4-4-1,

so exactly what he's been training at. But I thought when you talk about the position-specific drills, like the gauntlet, love the gauntlet. And that's something that I was talking to Will McLeigh about this yesterday, vice president of player personnel with the Cowboys. And he, because he loves the gauntlet as well because, you know, it just shows your ability to the quick reaction time.

Sure. So you're looking one way. You catch the ball. You have to look the other way. And you can watch and just see like a hint of stiffness in their neck or if they're just a tad late picking up the football. You can pick up these things with the gauntlet. So I think it's a fascinating drill. Sky Moore is outstanding from Western Michigan.

This is a guy that's a quarterback and a cornerback in high school. Goes to Western Michigan and turns into this receiver who the ball reaction skills are outstanding. He had a lot of slants on his film and, you know, quick hitters. And he's reacting to the football away from his frame consistently, consistently catching the football. So I think Sky Moore coming in, he was my wide receiver 9 and I think somewhere in the 60s in my overall. And he's just, he's moving up. I mean, he's going to be somewhere probably in the second round. And it's more of a question of, okay, does he get into the top 50 or not?

Ideally a slot receiver, but I think he could play, you know, outside as well. The two guys that my receiver tastes have become like a parody of themselves with people around. And the two guys that people kept saying to me, when you really dig into this, you're going to like, we're Scott Moore and Chris Olive. So it feels like both those guys did pretty well last night. And Crystal Lave is just so easy to appreciate as a wider receiver. He's so smooth. I feel like you can't talk about Chris Olave without using the word smooth. Because everything he does is just it's various footwork, his catching skills.

The only thing that I don't love about Lave is he's not an after the catch guy. Like he's not a tackle breaker. you don't necessarily see that speed after the catch. And so that's why, like, you know, I like Garrett Wilson more, his teammate. That's why, you know, I've got Traylon Berks rated higher. But Oliva is a first round slam-dong, great player. Easy player that you want to add to your offense and think you're going to get better. I was talking to a scyad from a playoff team yesterday that told me he would do terrible, terrible things to have Chris Olave on the team that he works for.

And he's the epitome of a pro. You know, he's ready to, he, four years at Ohio State, so he's ready to come in and contribute. You talk to, I talk to Jameson Williams, the Alabama receiver who was at Ohio State about Olave, and he just, he calls him his big brother. Garrett Wilson, same type of thing. Ryan Day gushes about him. I mean, everyone that's met Chris Olave speaks so highly of him as a person, not even necessarily as a football player, and he's a really good football player. Nobody in Ohio State history has more touchdown catches, and Buckeyes have produced some pretty good receivers. What did you make of Trail and Brooks's workout?

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that out. I put the, so yesterday morning I tweeted that I put the over under on his 40 at 448. And I got a lot of responses. I probably 99 to 1 responses, oh, way under, way under. So expectations were at least from fans and from a lot of, you know, us on the media side, we're thinking low 4-4s, you know, he's at 225. And he ran a 4-5-5. And I think that it was a little higher than I expected.

Low four-fives, I thought was very much in the realm of possibility for him. But four-five, that was a little surprising. And then high number in the three cone, not what you want to see. Vertical was not great with 33 inches. So the lower body explosion, the jumps were not where you wanted to be for a guy that you're talking about in the conversation for wide receiver one. So when he, after the season, towards the end of Arkansas season, he was. at like 240 pounds. So a big point of emphasis for him the last month or two has been losing weight, getting

down to 225. And I think that has cut into his training a little bit in terms of posting the best numbers possible for him. You look at it. I mean, all the Debo comparisons coming into this and like how teams would be using him. Debo had a 39-inch vertical. Yeah. Before the Debo comparisons became like all the rage.

Yeah. That's how he played. And that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, kind of how, I said it back in October. He used a linebacker-sized Debo Samuel on the field with how he's used. And I kind of got away from us because, yeah, he's not that type of explosive dude. He's, the most important thing, and I don't have this data yet, is the flying 20 with with Trailing Berks. Because he's a little bit of a slow starter, but that between 20 and 40 and the 40-yard dash,

that's where he is special for 225. That's where he can run away from guys because you don't see him. Nobody catches him on film. Nobody in the SEC had more explosive plays, plays of 20 plus yards. Nobody in the SEC had more plays than him, explosive plays than Berks than he did last year. He was like 21. So he has the juice. It's just there were a couple contributing factors to why he didn't necessarily show it this week.

I was talking to a head coach who's in the wide receiver market, potentially, I think, in the first round. We were just talking about the group in general. And there's a lot of enthusiasm about the group. And it's different than last year where I think you had a lot of sameness between guys in that top 50-ish range, guys that were smaller. Not necessarily slot options, right? Like Elijah Moore can play outside, but still a smaller receiver. Now you have guys of all different persuasions and varieties. A lot of guys that earn that 190 range, but their play styles are different.

London is obviously a very different physical kind of skill set. So it was one of those things where I think this team particular had a lot of them graded in a similar range. It's just about what you want. And I think it's why the position is so fascinating, right? There are a certain benchmark, like with tackles, you're mostly going in one direction. You need to hit this, this, in this benchmark. And you can talk yourself into a guy with 33 inch arms, but they all hit certain thresholds. Receivers, you can make an impact at so many different frames, so many different body types,

so many different play styles. And I think this class specifically, as I dig into it a little bit further, is really going to exemplify that. Yeah, different flavors. And really, yeah, we could have a, we could have a number of subcategories under wide receiver, you know, with what these guys offer. If you're looking for a slot only, an inside guy, if you want a guy that can play inside outside,

if you want a guy that's, you know, more of your possession target or your deep threat. And there's so many different types of receivers. And, yeah, this drive class, no exception with what it offers. So I think that's why, in my opinion, Garrett Wilson's the top guys because I think he can do a little bit of everything inside, outside. Not the biggest guy, but he plays so much bigger than he looks because the body control is elite. And I don't use that lightly. So, you know, for me, that's why Garrett Wilson's time. And he ran a 4-3.

So I think he checked a lot of boxes. But, yeah, now it's, we didn't see Drake London be able to work out. he's still working his way back from his injury. And he doesn't have his pro day until April 6th. So we're going to have to wait over a month now to find out exactly, you know, not that it should matter that much, you know, what he runs on a stopwatch in terms of, are you going to draft him or not? But it's still, it's a piece of context that's nice to have, especially for a guy like

Drake London, who's not a burner. That's not how he wins. That that's not his specialty as a wide receiver. That's not why you're drafting him early. But still, it's nice to have that piece of information. Was there a tight end or two that you think helped themselves last night that did particularly well? Yeah, the Maryland tight end, Shig Oquanquo, who had a, he did not play at all last year. He had a heart condition, non-COVID related, but it was a heart condition, scar tissue.

And so it comes back this past year as a senior. And he got better as the season went on. The Penn State tape really stands out. I think he had like 12 catches in that game. And then he comes here and he runs a 4-5. He looked really good at the Shrine Bowl. as well. So I thought he helped himself. Jalani Woods from Virginia. I think he really helped himself. He's got a really interesting background because he was a quarterback in Georgia in high school. He had offers from

Michigan. He had offers from a lot of different places. He decides to go to Oklahoma State. They move them to tight end. He plays kind of their cowboy back type of position in that offense. After four years, graduates, decides a transfer, goes to Virginia, let the ACC and touchdown catch. among tight ends this past year. Really, he had a breakout year, his best year as a college player. Goes to Striam Bowl, and the momentum just continues. He had a great week out in Vegas.

And then he comes here, 6-7-253, ran a 461 in a 40-yard dash. So he was moving. And then also he had 24 reps on the bench press. The bench press, I think, is very, very overrated. But I think it does help show the guys that spend time in the wait room. Yeah.

And this is, he has 30. 34.5 inch arms. So really good, really good arm length. And he put up 24 reps on the bench press. There will be offensive linemen here who do not have 34 and a half inch arms. They're smaller than that. And they did not get 24 reps on the bench press. So I thought Woods really helped. And the position drills on the field, caught the ball well. So Woods coming into the week, I think was my tight end nine. And I think he's maybe moved up a little bit with how he performed. Was there a receiver two that you think stumbled a little bit that did himself no favors last? We mentioned Traillenbergs. You know, 33 ver 728 in the three cone.

It's not D.K. Metcalf numbers in the three cone, but still, it's not, you know, you expect it a little bit better for a guy like that. Even at 225, I think you expected better. So that was not ideal for him. I don't know that anyone necessarily hurt themselves. I really don't think the combine is like that. I think it's more of you can help yourself. There were a couple of guys that did not run well, like a David Bell from Purdue,

who we knew was not going to run all that great. That's not his game. He's not explosive. And going back to August when I came out with my wide receiver rankings before the season, and David Bell was like eighth, ninth, whatever, I, Purdue fans let me hear it. Because this guy's, and I kept telling him, listen, he's just, he's good. He's just not the explosive guy. And what we saw on tape showed during the drills.

He's just, he's not an explosive guy, 465, 40-yard dash. The other drills, 33 and the vert, 7-1-4. four, three cone, under 10 feet in the broad. So the numbers kind of match what we saw on tape. So I don't think David Bell necessarily hurt himself, but it kind of confirmed what we already thought. Who surprised you the most any position, somebody that you want to go back to the tape after seeing what they did over the last

couple days? I think that we could probably, Alex Pierce from Cincinnati, like I knew he's a good athlete. He was on Bruce Feld, but it's Freaks list. This is a guy that in high school, big time track star, could have gone to college to play volleyball. He's that type of athlete. But seeing him move out there, he just, he looks different. He looks like a different type of guy. And 6-3-211 ran a 4-3 in the 40-yard dash, which is just moving. 40 and a half in the vert and then 10-9 in the broad. So explosive, explosive guy. And, you know, Ritter and Pierce, those two really had a connection this past year

for Cincinnati. I want to go back. and make sure because he's not he's more of a guy that will go down field and dunk on you you know with that that that vert and that ability to make plays go up and get the football but with that speed i want to see uh just go back and make sure you know he's not there's not more meat on the bone with him in terms of if you expand the route tree a little bit if you you know that he can do more than just be that vertical threat be that comeback threat the linear athleticism um so i do want to go back and and see more on peers just to make sure what i saw is uh you know that what he is based on these numbers.

Any other workout takeaways? Anything else you want to mention before we get some more general chatter from what the week has been? You know, I think that's the quarterbacks, I think we have to mention Kenny Pickett, just how I thought he looked good, kind of checked the box.

Didn't necessarily wow, but his arm looked, you know, there's plenty of alive enough. His 40s, his workouts were fine. You know, I don't really,

once you, for most quarterbacks, if you're somewhere between, you know, the four, six and the five one range, it's fine. You know, you don't really get too excited about it either way. So Kenny Pickett, I thought, checked that box. I don't think he did anything to move the needle necessarily, at least on the field. Maybe the interview process will be different. Ritter helped himself. I thought he threw the ball well. Sam Howell looked like he threw the ball fairly well.

Carson Strong, same thing. So a lot of these quarterbacks, I thought, just came here, checked the box, did well for themselves. As you've talked to people just about the class in general this week, what's the general conversation been like about this group as a whole? Speaking about the quarterbacks? Just in the class in general, any position. I think, well, quarterbacks always come up. So, yeah, we have to start there. And what I keep coming back to is, and what I've kind of asked some of these guys is, do you see any of these quarterbacks being a,

top 12 to 15 quarterback in the NFL at some point in their rookie contract. Do you see that happening? And I get a lot of, like, I don't get an immediate, oh yeah, yeah, I do. It's always, you know, it's like physically painting them to think about it, whether or not it could happen. And if that's the case, how are you drafting one of these guys in the first round? You know, like if you don't believe that there'll be a top 12 to 15 quarterback in the NFL at some point during their rookie contract, how can you justify draft, you know, drafting one in the first round? but we'll see these guys going the first round.

It's going to happen, especially after the dust settles with Fried and seeing the trademark and everything, it's going to be a lot of probably nothing. Jimmy Garoppel maybe gets moved, but Russ is staying put. Aaron Rogers likely stand put. I don't think we're going to see this massive exodus of quarterbacks and movement. So it comes down to the draft in terms of what's Washington going to do. What are the Colts going to do? Steelers.

So we're going to see quarterbacks in the front. first round. It's just, I'd be scared, really, really scared if my team needed a quarterback in this draft class. You guys are hearing the ramp up here to the bench press behind us. So if it gets a little loud apologies for that, this isn't a shared workspace where we're all recording audio or anything. So the quarterbacks, I talked to two plate callers last night. Okay. One of them said, I like two of the guys. This guy is, let's say what this team is softly in the quarterback market. It was Pickett and Willis. Yeah. I was like, those guys could. not be more different as far as I understand it in terms of what you're looking for. And that was

kind of the conversation. It's also a ceiling floor argument. That's exactly what it is. And so you're looking at Willis. And I think that the appeal to Willis with some of these teams is that 10% chance. Yeah. When you're looking at the guys you have to beat, especially in the AFC, that 10% chance is going to be worth a dice role to somebody. Just the physical talent, what he can eventually become is going to entice someone. The other play caller that I talked to, they are in the quarterback. market. And I think that there is an allure of what Willis's physical talent

is going to give you. And I'm curious which team ultimately is going to say, in this class with our level of desperation, with the other available options, he's worth the top 12 pick. Right. And we've talked about it before. You need a superhero trait.

If you're going to compete with the best of the best, the quarterbacks in the NFL, especially if you're in the AFC. And, you know, a guy like Malik Willis gives you something like that because he is so electric not only with his legs, but his arm. And so the biggest thing with, I think with Willis is trying to figure out, okay, when is he going to be ready to play? Because, you know, you talk to his coaches at Liberty and you get a sense for what he was asked to do. And it's just, it's nowhere close to what he's

going to be asked to do in the NFL. Even if you, you know, really just changed a playbook to accommodate him. And it's, again, it's not that he can't do it. It's just, it's going to be wildly different what he has to do in the NFL compared to what he's asked to do in college. So can he get there? Yeah, absolutely. That is a realistic scenario that Malik Willis will be able to do because he's a sharp guy. You talk to him and you come away impressed, you know, not just with the character and the guy that he is, but with, you know, just the way you can tell that, you know, he processes things and the way he,

you know, speaks and everything. So you get you, you become, you walk away from talking with him thinking, yeah, this guy's impressive. And so I think he'll do pretty well during the. interviews, it's just what's the projection? Is he ready to play in year two? I don't think he's ready to play as a rookie. I'd be shocked. Year two maybe, or get the way till year three, that trying to figure that part out is as part of the conversation. Have you gotten a sense for what the top five might look like? Where guys sit in that hierarchy, if there's a certain

flavor that teams might like, what has the chatter been around that for the people that you've talked with the people that you've talked about? So you're talking about the top five overall? Yeah, Yeah, the Jaguar isn't won. It really seemed, you think about Coach Peterson, he's going to want an offensive line in there. I think so too. And the way that this drive class is shaping up, I think it comes down to Ikea Kwanwu and Evan Neal.

I think it's, maybe it's another ceiling floor argument. I think if you're going a conservative route, you're taking Evan Neal. You know, a guy who's been a three-year starter at Alabama, started at three different positions. You know, you feel really good about who he is right now. If you're going with more of the ceiling, I think Ikea Kuan, who's your guy.

He's the best run blocker in this class. And the strides that he made this year as a pass protector are really, really encouraging. That's why he's my top offensive alignment in his class. And I think that's what a lot of teams talk about. So it just comes down to which one the Jaguars prefer. And then whichever offensive alignment doesn't go one, good chance they go four to the Jets. Because both these guys can play guard and the Jets, they're looking for someone. We'll see what happens in free agency.

but ideally someone that can step in and play right guard as a as a rookie and then probably be the long-term right tackle, maybe left tackle, depending on how the Bexton situation works out. And that's something that I think both these guys can offer. And I think they'd be happy with either Evan Neal or Ikiyakuan, we've fallen to them at number four. Two, that just seems, it's almost like Hutchinson's too perfect there that it's not going to happen. But, you know, aside from the whole Michigan connection and everything, it just gives, you know, the, the, the, culture that they're trying to build there with Coach Campbell. Hutchinson just fits it to a T. And he's going to,

Hutchinson's going to blow it up tomorrow when he works out on the field. His agility numbers that he's been testing at are unreal. So Hutchinson at 2. Texans at 3 are a wild card because, you know, everyone has said that. No one has any idea. It's really funny. Because they're,

you know, put a list of their needs and it's just everything. And also you can't ascribe traditional thinking to anything they do. No, no, you can't. And does Laramie Tunsel get traded? Does Brandon Cooks get traded? you know, this is going to be a kind of a weird offseason for them. A guy like Kyle Hamilton makes sense, but for a team that needs so much, can you draft a safety there? You know, like, he might be the best player on the board when they pick, but that's hard to do.

Kvon Tibado, this is a big week for him in order to prove the teams that, hey, I care about football. I care about being the best football player I can be. Yeah, I do care about my brand, and that's fine. You know, a lot of players in the NFL care about their brand, but more than ever, anything I care about being the best football player I can be. And he needs to prove that this week. Because there's a lot of teams that are, you know, on the, on the brink of being out on Tibido just based off of my conversation.

So that'll be a fascinating thing to watch with him. What's the most interesting thing you heard about a prospect this week? Just one of the nuggets that you're, it's going to stick with you based on the conversations that you've heard that you've had. Well, maybe just recency bias because, you know, talked with Devante Wyatt this morning. He, uh, he's a really, really engaging guy. and it's fun talking to him. He said,

just wait until I work out tomorrow. He said, you know, the eye emoji? He's like, yeah, that's what everyone's going to be like after I work out. So fun talking to him. I think he's the best defense tackle here. Three technique, best three technique in a class. He should test very, very well. So I think that was fun talking to him.

Really, I think you go position by position. There's something interesting with all these guys. You know, some of these receivers have been fun to talk to. Sky Moore, just talking about his evolution as a receiver. like I mentioned before. It wasn't a receiver in high school. So he really had to learn and grow at that position. You know, talking to the Ohio State kids,

Garrett Wilson and Chris Oliva, how locked in they are. Ohio State's, you know, produce some pretty good receivers in past years and these two are the next guys. So, yeah, I think that just being able to talk to some of these players in a more informal setting has really been beneficial. As you've talked to scouts, coaches,

whoever over the last week, are there guys that you feel like there's a feeling around there's a consensus around them that's far away from what you initially thought, people that you wanted to go back and watch after you started talking about them on the ground here? I think

yeah, I think there's not a consensus on a lot of these players that I thought maybe there would be or you know I thought for sure that teams would you know really like this player or that player. So it is interesting that like a Drake London. Like there are some teams that really like them.

some teams that are like, I just, I don't, I don't need a contested catch receiver in the first round, you know, like I, that's just not my, that's not what we're looking for. That's not what we would ever value in the first round. And so, Drake Glenn is a really good player. And so I, I was surprised by that to see, here to hear some teams were maybe lower on him than others. I'm looking through my list here. I think that the corners, uh, are wide open at the top, in terms of the orders. Trette McDuffie from Washington, top corner for some teams.

Sauce Gardner, top corner for some teams. Derek Stingley, top corner for some teams. This is a big week for Stingley as he gets FaceTime with these teams to say, hey, the guy you saw in 2019, the All-American that helped win a national title. I'm still that guy. Because the last two years have not gone according to plan.

And medicals are a big part of that. And we'll see the medicals are a big part of this week, how the medicals go for him, but more so the interviews. So the top of the corner, cornerback position has been very, very split when you talk to different teams. Offensive tackle as well. I think Iki Aquano and Evan Neal are the top two guys. And then after that, a lot of different opinions between a Trevor Penning, a Charles Cross.

The lack of consensus on a lot of these players, I guess we get that every year just because teams look for different things. And I have a set of eyes, see something different. But especially this year, the lack of consensus on a lot of these prospects that, I think the general consensus or the fans think that, oh, yeah, he's a top 10 pick or he's a top 20 pick. The consensus is not there among NFL teams. As the bench press gets ready to go here is it's going to ramp up, any other, anything else you want to mention? Any other takeaways from the first few days from the week that you feel that people should know about? I'm excited for tonight to see the offensive lineming on the field.

It's great to see these guys in person just move around, even if they don't have pads on, even just their movement skills. One of my first combines back in 2013, seeing Eric Fisher and Luke Jockel back to back in order because it's alphabetic order. Seeing those guys back to back. I walked out of Lucas Oil that day saying, yeah, Eric Fisher's going to be drafted higher than Luke Jokul. And at that time in February, that was, I mean, Luke Jockel was supposed to be the guy. And just seeing the move was just very, very different.

And so I think there's a lot of benefits from just seeing these guys and how they move in shorts and a T-shirt, even though it's not a traditional football setting. So being able to see the offensive linemen running backs tonight, that'll be a, a big thing, defensive lineman tomorrow, and then the defensive back on Sunday. So we still got a couple days here left at the Combine, and it's going to be a lot of fun. That's it for me. I'm about to drive home. If this is the last one, I'm pretty bummed out about it. I would love that this was back here next year. Either way, it was great to see you. It was great to do this. Enjoy your next couple days here in Indy, and we'll chat next week.

Awesome. Thanks, Robert. All right, guys, that's all we got. Please subscribe to The Athletic.com slash football show. One dollar month for the next six months. me and Nate will be back on Tuesday, so please come back and check that out as we ramp up our free agency coverage. As always, guys, thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was The Athletic Football Show.