The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Dane Brugler’s 2022 NFL mock draft 1.0

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

Mock draft season is officially underway as Robert Mays welcomes The Athletic’s Dane Brugler to discuss the 2022 NFL Draft. Dane explains who he has at No. 1, the overall talent this year and where things get interesting for the Jets, Giants and Eagles. Plus, they also dive into the top quarterbacks and what to watch heading into the conference championship games this weekend.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. The Athletic Football Show is presented by State Farm, because like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. Today's Wednesday, December 1st, which is wild to say, but here we are. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today, the Athletic Zone, Dan Bruegler. Dane, how you doing, man?

I'm doing great. How are you doing it, Robert? I'm doing great. I am so glad that we're having you on today. It's perfect timing for a couple of different reasons. One, your first mock draft came out on the athletic on Tuesday. Please, if you guys have not gone and checked that out, do so. Mock draft season is a wonderful season.

It means the draft season soon is to be upon us, which I'm always interested in. And two, we have conference championship games this weekend. So this is one of the last little nuggets of college football that NFL watchers like me who are very casual about college football can just settle in, figure out who they're supposed to be watching, who they're not. So that's what we're going to do today. We're going to dig into your first mock, and we're going to get people a little bit of a viewing guide

before a very big weekend in the college football world. One more quick note, before we actually dig into all of this. You're going to be taking prospects to pros, the podcast that you do with Lance Zerline, to the athletic football show feed, starting after the season, right as draft season ramps up, which we are very excited about, and I hope that our listeners are excited as well.

Yeah, I get tweets, I think almost every day asking when's the pod coming back? When's the pod coming back? Well, it's almost here. And, yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun being part of the football show umbrella. And, yeah, I can't wait to get going with that. It's going to be great. So we're still going to figure out exact timing for that. But obviously, as the senior bowl ramps up, as draft season ramps up,

you guys can find prospects of pros in our feed. It's going to be a great way to kind of round out our draft coverage as we head into our second offseason with the show, which I'm very excited about. All right. let's get to the mock and let's start at the top. We were talking about this a little bit before we started the show. So I do not watch a lot of college football. That is something, it's important to preface this entire conversation with that. I am the most casual of college football fans.

Every once in a while, I will sit down on a Saturday when I don't have much else to do and I'm not doing other things like being in a relationship and having a family and all that other stuff that I have to do on Saturdays. And I'll watch a game or two. A few weeks ago, I settled in because my fiancee was out of town and I watched Michigan, Michigan State. And watching the game, like, man, 97 for Michigan, he's got some juice to him. Like, that guy seems pretty good. I wonder who he is. Fast forward a little bit more than a month later. And Aidan Hutchinson, who is that guy, is number one in your mock draft. It's probably a good sign for me as a football watcher that I can watch a guy be like, he seems good. And he's the number one prospect in college football. Yeah. And you know, it's just the timing's there because against Ohio State on Saturday, he finished with 15 pressure.

according to PFF, which is the most they've charted in college football since they started doing it, I think in 2014. So, yeah, he's had himself a heck of a year. I mean, he's the type of guy that he could have gone out last year and been a first round pick. He came back. He had an injury. And he, one scout called him the lost Watt brother to me because of the way he carries himself, the football passion. He's got a quote from media days over the summer where he said, You know, I love this so much.

I will die for this. And you know what? I kind of believe him a little bit. He's that type of dude. You know, his dad was an All-American at Michigan. His dad's now a works in an ER. He's an emergency room physician in Michigan. But this is a guy who productive, he just checks all the boxes.

You want athleticism? Okay. Well, he was number two on Bruce Feldman's Freak list. He's a guy that's going to test well to combine for 6-5 or 6-6 to order 160, 265 pounds. Production, okay, well, he just set the Michigan single season sack record with 13 sacks this year. He's number two in all of college football in pressures. And then, you know, we talk about personality, play personality, competitiveness.

This is what really sets him apart. I mean, he is that, that Watt, J.J. Watt, T.J. Watt mold of the way he carries himself, the way he competes. And so, you know what, I know I surprise some people having him at number one in the mock draft. But, I mean, really, when you look at it, let's just do a process of elimination here. If we're not going to consider a quarterback at number one, which is just where we are right now with how, you know, getting feedback from the league and just, you know, looking at these quarterbacks, I don't think we're going to see a quarterback go number one this year. And then, okay, there's a few tackles that are interesting. Well, I don't think Detroit's going to take a tackle at one with their, you know, taking Suea last year and Taylor Decker still in the fold. So you're running out of players here and you come down to two guys, Kavon Thibato from Oregon and Aiden

Hutchinson from Michigan. And when you really break down Hutchinson's game, he just seems like the perfect Dan Campbell player with everything that he wants. I mean, Hutchinson is a Detroit native or just outside of Detroit. That doesn't matter as much. It's a great story. But just everything else that goes with the player, his production, his athleticism, the way he wins versus run in the past. Now, I will say that this year's top of the draft is not something that is going to be compared favorably to pass drafts at the top. That's what I'm going to ask you. Yeah, and that's, well, I'll put it this way.

I started off my mock draft, the intro, by saying, I don't think this is a bad draft. And usually when you start that way, probably means maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit. But you know what, there's a lot of first round players in this, in this draft. There will be pro bowlers that come out of this class. But I think if you are looking for those top 10 guys, you know, the elite, the blue chippers, this draft just doesn't have a lot of those guys.

year. If Aiden Hutchison was in last year's draft, I was looking at it. I'm like, okay, where does he go? Maybe 10, maybe 14. Like, I mean, he's, even Thibodeau. Tibodeau, I think, he's kind of been, he's been number one for so long for a lot of people that we, you know, I think a lot of people think of him as Miles Garrett or Chase Young or the Bosa brothers. He's just not that level of prospect. He's really good. I mean, Kavanaugh and Thibon, Thibon, Thibode is really good, but he's not that level of prospect. And so if the Lions end up with the number one pick. Aiden Hutchinson, I think, is absolutely in the conversation. It's funny that you said he was the lost Watt brother, because when I was watching him,

really good hands, the inside move is nasty. I was like, it's like Bosa-ish. And then when you combine that, because the thing about the Watts, outside of just the temperament, the Watts are otherworldly athletes. Like, if you look at their testing numbers, it's out of control how crazy athletic those two guys are. The bosses are twitchy and explosive, but it's not close to what the are physically. So you're combining kind of that refined element to his game that he clearly has in a little bit that I've watched him with those traits. And that's just a scary combination. Like you said, you start checking boxes. When you have the mindset, when you have the physical tools, when you have the production, at a certain point, what are we doing here? I mean, that's all you

need to see is when you start checking all that stuff off. So I want to talk about just that idea of when you have a guy like this at number one and how it compares to other drafts. So in the past 10 years, I believe there's only been three drafts where a quarterback did not go number one overall. 2017 is the most recent one, 2014, and 2013. 2017 is the weirdest class we will have in a long, long time, right? You have arguably a future Hall of Fame quarterback goes off the board at 11. You have a top five quarterback when he's played go off the board at 10, and Mitchell Trubisky goes at two.

It'll be the strangest quarterback draft class we've seen a long, long time. Miles Garrett has been that guy, right? He was that guy forever, where he was the number one pick in the draft walking onto campus at Texas A&M. So that one's interesting. 2014, kind of similar, right? Connie goes number one. Connie was always that guy. From the moment Connie was in high school, he was the number one pick in the draft,

and you have a down quarterback class. Bortles goes at number three. Derek Carr goes in the second round. maybe the best second round pick as a quarterback since Drew Breeze, right? Like you just don't find guys in that range. Dalton maybe is in that conversation. Dalton and Kaepernick were second rounders. But yeah, no, I think you're right.

So that, and again, kind of a strange class. And then 2013, talk about this, you don't think this is a bad draft? 2013 is a bad draft. I mean, a notoriously bad draft. If you look at the top 10 of that draft, it's just bust after bust after. You had Fisher go number one. He ended up becoming a decent player. But then Luke Jokul goes number two.

I mean, you look at that entire group. It's awful. So it kind of, I don't want to lump this in automatically just because there's no quarterback at the top. But when you look back at some of these other classes, there's been some weirdness in years where we have not had those one or two quarterback prospects. And it feels like we're drifting in that direction again. Right.

And this isn't like, we don't have to put this draft class on 2013 alert because I don't think it's that level bad. But, you know, I do think that when you look at it, we don't have the quarterbacks and we don't have the high, you know, we don't have the Miles Garrets, you know, but the Browns in 2017 needed a quarterback so bad. But nobody blamed them for taking Miles Garrett number one over any of those quarterbacks because just, yeah, he was that guy. This year, it just, yeah, we don't, King Van Timito was a really good player.

Aidan Hutchinson is a really good player. I like both of these tackles at the top of Evan Neal from Alabama, Ikea Cuonu from NC State. But then we start getting into maybe some, you know, value questions. A guy like Kyle Hamilton, the safety from Notre Dame. You could argue he's the most talented player in this class, but are you taking a safety top five? Are you taking a safety top seven?

It's just every team's going to look at that a little bit differently. So this is just not a great year to have a top 10 pick if you're looking for, you know, relative to past years, if you're looking for that the high end has a very high percentage chance to become a pro bowler. This just is not just not a great year for that type of player. But with that said, there is still plenty of talent in this draft. So if you're Detroit, you get the Rams first in 2020, again.

So hopefully there's a world where if the quarterbacks are better, which I'll ask you about in a second, you can make a move. Even if you have the eighth overall pick, if you have eight and 26, can you get to four or whatever? They still have draft capital to kind of build this thing and maybe find their quarterback down the road. So just very quickly, what is the 20, 23 quarterback class looked like early on.

Yeah, it's obviously, I think, you know, much better. Just looking forward, looking ahead, C.J. Stroud from Ohio State looks like he's going to be a guy that's going to be in that conversation, only a redshirt freshman now. But the poise that he shows, some of the way, the way he can layer the football down the field is really impressive. So I think C.J. Stratt will be in that conversation. And then Bryce Young for Alabama, not very impressive physically, but he's so sharp, so smart, so poised. I think

Bryce Young and C.J. Straub, both those guys are going to be top five picks in 2023. So if you're a team like Detroit, where you're probably going to be in the quarterback market still then, that gives you some hope. So let's get to another team. It's going to be looking for a quarterback, maybe not next year, and that's the

Texans, too. You have K. Bonfibodeo going there from Oregon. This is a guy I've heard of, right? That's the kind of prospect he is. I've heard his name over the last couple years. I'm just wondering, is there anything about what his 2021 look like that you felt like dropped him below Hutchinson or do you feel like Hutchinson was just so good that that's why they slot it in this way.

Well, and I think it's really, it comes down. Because I'm not saying Aiden Hutchinson is now the favorite to go number one. I think that, you know, if you look at Detroit specifically, I would not be surprised if they went for Hutchinson over Thibodeau just with some of the dynamics of the player himself. Now, if the Texans have the number one overall pick, maybe, you know, we switch in Thibodeau, is now projected to go number one. I think you can make a case for either one of these guys, and there won't be a consensus.

With Tibido, I think he's been as advertised. The only thing I wish we had is I wish he would have played against Ohio State. That way we could have had a common opponent with both Hutchinson and Tibado going up against that Ohio State offensive line. But he was hurt. He missed three or four weeks. But when he's on the field, he's been productive. You know, he reminds me of a longer, stronger version of Harold Landry.

And that's, I think a lot of people, kind of roll their eyes at that. We're talking about a, you know, a guy potentially at number one overall. But Harold Landry has got double-digit sacks this year. He's one of like seven guys that already have double-digit sacks. I think Tibido's a much better run player than Landry. And he's a little bit longer. The way he can use his bend, the way he can use that little jab step to set up a swipe, a swim, and just a different ways he can get around the offensive tackle. And he plays with power. And he's not Hutchinson in terms of this fiery guy with just you know, the motor competitive, but he's not a passive guy at all.

I mean, he had a personal foul on Saturday against Oregon State where he just picked up the running back and threw him to the ground. So he is a guy that has a lot of that fire that you need that you're looking for from a pass rusher in the top five picks. I don't think it's anything that he has not done, but I think it's just Aiden Hutchinson, at the end of the day, he belongs near the top of the draft. And again, as much as I like Tibado, he's just not in that generational, you know, mix. He's not Miles Garrett. He's not Bosa. He's not, you know, these top level pass rushers like a Chase Young where, you know, you know from the day, Chase Young's first game ever as an NFL rookie, he had a sack, a force fumble. You just knew he belonged. He was going to be a top 10 pass rushes in the NFL pretty quickly. With Tipido, I just, you don't see that

type of ceiling necessarily. He doesn't have that body type. But he's a really good player, someone that can come in and be a starter or a guy that's going to lead your team. in Sacks. He's going to be disruptive. So he's a really good player. Similar to conversation about the Texans that we have about the Lions. It's square one. You're just trying to find building blocks at this point. Jonathan Greener has been good for them.

Somebody that has kind of come on in a way that you might not have expected. And that's the benefit of being a rebuilding team is that you have guys like that get a lot of opportunities and like you can unearth some guys in that way. But they're starting over. And you find a high quality, high impact position and a guy that has been a really high level prospect for a couple years. so it makes a lot of sense. Evan Neal is another name that I've heard a decent amount

thrown around on the offensive line Twitter spaces, and you have him going at number three to Jacksonville. Jags obviously need help along the offensive line. Cam Robinson's on the franchise tag. Who knows what's going to happen with you want Taylor? I mean, they feel like they're closer to, again, square one than it might have seemed like coming into the year. Looking at an Evan Neal, where would you compare him to just in terms of other top level

tackle prospects that we've seen in the last five to ten years? Yeah, he's really unique because of just the way he, his size, the way he moves. You know, he's listed at about 6, 7, 355. I mean, he is a humongest guy. You know, my buddy Ben Fennell compared him to, who is the Leonard Davis, you know, back in the day playing for the Cardinals and the Cowboys. You know, he's just a big mauler who can also move. He's a really flexible guy.

I think that he, when you look at the Jaguars, they need to protect Trevor Lawrence. Urban Meyer, he's a line of scrimmage guy. He's going to want to upgrade that offensive line. Evan Neal is a guy that can do that. And you also like the positional flexibility. As a freshman started at right guard, as the sophomore started at right tackle. Now as a junior, he moved over to left tackle, and he's made that transition pretty seamlessly. He's just a really good blocker who moves well for that size, has power.

he's a player that I don't think you have to talk yourself into. It's interesting how Alabama, just by virtue of the talent glut that they've had at that position over the last five years, almost by necessity, has to cross-strain people. I mean, think about even Leatherwood was like that, right? He had to play multiple positions. And they've bounced around a lot of guys. Have they had like a day one left tackle that's played there for multiple years? Was Jonah Williams like that?

I say Jonah Williams maybe. But yeah, no, it's played on the right side. I mean, it's kind of wild. Right. It's just they kind of, they replace these guys. And their whole thing is getting the best five on the field. And so they find ways to do that. And really, I think that that might be the biggest difference between this year's Alabama and past year's Alabama is their offensive line, except for Evan Neal is not the offensive line we've come to expect from Alabama. And that's why, you know, they've had some troubles on offense. Why they scored what, you know, three points against Auburn for 95% of that game. So, you know, that offensive line this year has not been up to. the standards that we've usually come to expect from Alabama, except for Evan Neal of tackle. It's interesting because if you look at it, I mean, offensive tackles used to be in the conversation to go number one overall. Talk about Eric Fisher did that in 2013.

I mean, you think about the Jake Longs of the world. I mean, it used to happen. There hasn't been an offensive tackle drafted in the top three since 2014. It'll be eight years now if Neil were to go in the top three. And I'm wondering, I think that's just a quarterback thing, right? It's because we had so many quarterbacks go one and two. It's always a question, right? When you're looking at these things in a big picture way,

it's almost funny when you talk about the two pass rushes at the top, because last year we had a class devoid of pass rushers. So there was this kind of started to get the ball rolling of, well, is football transition where there aren't as many pass rushers coming out? And now the top two picks are pass rushers. So I don't like making sweeping generalizations about, well, a tackle hasn't gone in the top three in eight years. What does that mean?

It's sometimes hard to find that balance a little bit when you're talking about this stuff. Right. And I mean, I think even in hindsight, if we go back to the 2020 draft and, you know, we kind of do a redraft there, you know, Joe Burroughs still goes high, Chase Young still goes high,

Justin Herbert still goes high. But, you know, the tackles that were in that class with Bechtin and Wills and Worf's. I mean, those guys are going to go much higher than they went in that class. So, yeah, it's a really surprising stat that you pull it up. The tackle has not gone top three in so long.

But this is that type of draft where we could see, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw too. Kwanu could get in there as well. Just tackles are in this type of class with no quarterbacks that you feel great about. Tackles are, especially these two guys are an easy position to talk herself into that high. Let's do this on the cuff when I have not made you prepare and it's going to be really mean to do. If we're redrafting the 2020 draft, Justin Herbert goes number one, right?

Yeah. So Justin Herbert goes number one. If you're Washington, yeah. I think you probably pick Burrow it too. You have to. I think you have to. I think you have to. As good as Chase.

I mean, Chase, John's awesome. We saw, we saw Washington defense play pretty well at last night. I'm running out football against an inconsistent Seahawks offense. But, I mean, as good as Chase Young is, I think you have to go Joe Burrow, too, there. I think you go Burrow it too. Number three, that, that's the real conversation, right? for me, it's Justin Jefferson. Ooh, okay.

I think I would go Jefferson there. The conversation there for me would be between Jefferson, Chase Young, and Worf's. And I think right now, Worf's is awesome. But I think you could make an argument that Justin Jefferson is a top three receiver in the league right now. I wish I could disagree with you, but I mean, I think you're right on. I think I would want to lean Chase Young just because it would be harder. I think it's harder to find a patch rusher of Chase Young's caliber.

But I mean, man, that's tough. As much as I like worse, I think it comes down to Jefferson or young from me. And I lean young, but I absolutely understand where you're coming from with Jefferson. For me, here's the distinction to me. Chase Young is still a projection. Chase Young, you're still betting on potential to a certain extent. It's limitless potential. I could understand making the bet.

We did a non-quarterback draft this summer, and I picked Chase Young number two, just because I still believed in where he was going. But I think over the first half of the season, before he got hurt even, you didn't see that step forward that you might have hoped. And with Jefferson, you did. With Jefferson, he is a full-blown superstar. So I'm betting more on the certainty there with Chase Young, there's still a little gap between what he can be and what he is,

and you have to be confident that that gap is going to get closed. Poor Eagles fans are listening to this, just crying in their crying tears of Jalen Rager going one pick ahead of Jefferson in that draft. All right, enough of me being sappy about Justin Jefferson. We do that enough on this show. Speaking of the Eagles, let's get to the number four pick here, because this is where shit gets weird with this draft, right? I mean, this has never happened before.

There's no doubt this has never happened before. So four through eight, you have three teams here, four through nine. You have three teams here with back-to-back picks as things currently stand. The Jets are at four and five, the Giants are at five and six, and the Eagles are at seven and eight. It's crazy. It's crazy to see it stacked up like this. So with the Jets who have four and then obviously they have the Seahawks pick at five, you had them going Derek Stingley from LSU, the corner.

cornerback, another guy I've heard of, and Ike McWanoo, who is somebody that I've seen Brandon Thorne tweet about a bunch, and that's how I've heard of him, makes a ton of sense, right? You have one of the worst teams in the NFL, and you hope that you get some building blocks with Bechtin, AVT, now you have Elijah Moore, but on defense, Carl Lawson's there to a big contract. They have John Franklin Myers, but for the most part, you can go any way you want. Their cornerback group is non-existent. So drafting, again, two premium positions. in the top five for what is still a rebuilding team, to me, on its face makes sense.

Right. Absolutely. And I mean, Aquano in a lot of ways is kind of like a mini-bectin. And I say mini, really, Aquanus 6'4, you know, 325 pounds. Everyone's a mini-becting. Every human being is a mini-McChi Bechton no matter how big he is. Right. So Iquanoo, but he's that type of explosive player.

I mean, they run a lot of outside zone. And this, watching this guy move is really impressive. He's so powerful, so explosive in his upper body. He moves well. I mean, he has a bad tendency of oversetting and this and that. But he's kind of a late bloomer. I mean, he was not. He's a twin and his brother, his twin brother was the more highly recruited kid.

He's a backup at Notre Dame. This guy was only a three star, goes to Tennessee State, starts from day one. He's gotten better every year, every game, it seems like. And he's been used interchangeably guard and tackle. And he's done an outstanding job. So Iquanu is a big time talent. The traits are just off the charts with him. And then with Stingley, yeah, I mean,

you want to upgrade your defense in some way with one of these premium picks. And, you know, it's funny because Kyle Hamilton's right there, but Joe Douglas is not drafting a safety top five overall. And it just he doesn't, that's not a position that he holds in that regard. I mean, we saw it with the whole Jamal Adams thing. Yeah. So, you know, looking at the who's available, stealing makes sense. They have a bunch of corners on their roster that look like, like,

number two's, maybe number threes. They just don't have that number one guy. And I think Stingley could be that guy. Although with Stingley, he's a little bit of a wild card too. He had that phenomenal freshman year when the year LSU won at all two years ago. Last year as a sophomore, he was good, wasn't on the same level. No one on that team was. But then this year, he basically missed the entire year with a foot injury. So interviews, the medicals, they will be very important for Stingley to go this high, even though the talent does warrant it. How do you reconcile that. When you're talking to teams and you're thinking about how they sort through that conversation, where you have that out of this world freshman year and then we're looking at two

full years since he's been that version of that player. What does that conversation look like? Yeah. And I think that, you know, there's reasons and there's excuses. And with a guy like Stingley last year, that LSU defense with, you know, a new coordinator, they're bringing in a whole new scheme, asking him to do some different things. And, you know, you. You know, they didn't have, who was that at the corner on the other side that year? Went to the Titans in the second round, a blanket on his name. Christian Fulton? Yeah, Fulton, thank you.

So, you know, he was the guy. He was the number one corner for LSU last year. And, you know, there were some up and down moments, but he played pretty well. This year, it's really about the medicals. It's really, you know, as long as the foot injury is okay, I think, you know, the doctor sign off. You're feeling pretty good about Stingley. But it's just, okay, where has his mind been at this last two years? years, you know, just making sure the interviews go well, the medicals go well.

It's a little bit of a, you know, a little nerve-wracking when you're talking about a top five pick, but I think you just go back and watch those freshman highlights and say, okay, this is the guy we're getting. In terms of play style, is he like a man-and-man corner? Like, what are his strengths? What makes him stick out as a sort of prospect? Yeah, I think that he can do, he can play zone. He can play man-to-man.

You know, his ability to turn and run and find the football. is just outstanding. He does not panic. Kind of like, you know, Sertan last year, there's no panic in his play. He feels fine on an island. You know,

he will drive on the football. Once he gets, once he locates the ball, he will make place. He looks like a wider seefer out there. So he just, he could be an all-around playmaker. I think he might be what the Lions

thought they were getting with Jeffrey Okuda, you know, that type of player. So, you know, if you're drafted a stingly top five, that's what you're hoping for. and I think he can be that type of player. It's funny because you think of the Jets and Sala in that like Seattle system,

they have transitioned so far away from that. Even in San Francisco, they're running a ton more quarters. And you look at the numbers right now. You know, in third down, the Jets have the second highest man coverage rate in the entire NFL? Wow. 63% of their third down snaps are in man coverage. The only team that with a higher rate right now in the league is the dolphins. That might be because they're worried about those guys and just,

communication and saying, hey, we're playing man. You have this guy. This is easier. But they were sprinkling a lot more man at the end of his time in San Francisco. So the fact that they're willing to play like that, if you bring in a guy that you feel comfortable saying, you're our number one guy. This is what you're going to do for us. It actually makes more sense with the way their defense is structured than it might

seem like at first glance, which is interesting to me. Yeah, no question. I think that, you know, for a guy like Derek Stingley, that makes more sense for them to go in that direction to get that number one corner that they've been missing. So the Giants sticking in the New York metro area have two picks after that. Here's where I defend the Bears, all right? Seattle giving away a top five pick for Jamal Adams. The moment that comes to fruition where the season actually ends and we see the transference of power with that picks and the transfer of ownership happen, that is heartbreaking for Seahawks fans.

At least in the Bears case here, you did it for a quarterback. You do it every single time, no matter what happens with you. Justin Fields. You do it every single time. So that's how I'm taking some solace in the Bears handing away the fifth or six overall pick to the Giants in this scenario. So the Giants, I mean, there are so many just fascinating parts of this, right? Is Dave Gauterman going to be making these picks? Right. Is Daniel Jones going to be the quarterback? There's so many different directions that they could go. But your two picks that you gave them. First one is Devin Lloyd, who is an offball linebacker from Utah. I have no idea who Devin Lloyd is.

But the fact that he's an offball linebacker going this high, find that interesting. What about him do you think makes him worthy of consideration in the top 10 at that position? He's, you know, I feel like this term gets overused, but, you know, that defensive chess piece, you know, that that's what he is. And I think that you look at the Giants, they're in a division with the Cowboys who are using Michael Parsons, like this, you know, maniac who can line up anywhere in the front seven and either create pressure, shut down the run. He can carry tight ends or running backs. He just, well, all these do the different things. And I think do you look at what Devin Lloyd can be. He's not quite on that Michael Parsons level.

No one really is in terms of size, speed, strength. But Devin Lloyd is that style of player. He is explosive. His range is outstanding. He sees the field really, really well. He's a former safety who converted the linebacker at Utah, put on the weight. And this guy just makes plays up and down the field. you feel his tackles on tape. He explodes in the contact. He's, I think it's three or four interceptions already this year. Two, he brought back for touchdowns. So he is a defensive playmaker.

And you look at the Giants, linebacker, probably not their top need. But again, you look at what the Cowboys are doing, Michael Parsons. I think that Devon Lloyd can be that style of player, style of defensive player for you. A guy that has instincts, has chase speed, has explosive nits.

He can blitz. He can run and he can cover. I think if you are looking for a defensive playmaker, Lloyd makes sense. Who's the secondary coach or defensive coordinator at Utah right now? Morgan Scali. He's been there for seven, eight years now. He's been there for a while. They run that 425 kind of base and get really creative with the linebackers.

They shut down Oregon a couple weeks ago. We're going to see them again, Oregon and Utah this weekend. But we'll talk about that later. seems like a lot of back seven guys from Utah coming out and have played well. I mean, Jaywin Johnson, obviously Julian Blackman, Trump Burgess was the third round pick in 2020. It feels like they just have gotten production out of those positions. I feel like something's in the water with their back seven players out there. Yeah, no question. They recruit athletes. I mean, again, Devin Lloyd was a safety that, you know, was 200 pounds, not highly recruit.

He was a three-star guy. He was originally committed to UNLV and still Utah kind of got a hold of him. He redshirted. They put weight on him, moving a linebacker. And he's really turned into this rangy playmaker that, you know, has played Will, has played, they call it a MAC position, has played Rover for him. So you can do a lot of things with Devin Lloyd. What are your personal biases when it comes to recruiting pedigree and draft prospects? Do you feel like you're able to kind of dismiss like, oh, he's a third round, he's a three star, but he's come a long way? Or do you feel like you give the benefit of the doubt to guys who are all Americans, who were supposed to be the guys coming out.

One of my, I mean, the reason, one of the reasons I love doing the draft guide every year is I love learning about these guys' journey. It is such an important part, it's such an important piece of the puzzle is understanding, okay, was he just a late bloomer? Was he a guy that just needed a kick in the butt? Why was he a three star and not a five star? Why this? Why that?

Maybe he went to a school that, you know, graduated 100 kids and just didn't get the looks and all these different things. And so it's that, you know, Justin Jefferson. He was a three star, originally a two star who, you know, had to, you know, it was like one of the final recruits in that LSU recruiting class. Chris Olavé, who is also in this first round mock draft. He was, his quarterback was the reason everyone was going to see him in San Diego or going to see that program in San Diego.

And all of a sudden, Brian Day got a hold of this receiver that was catching passes from this quarterback and said, hey, he's not bad. Three star Olaave is one of the lowest recruits in Ohio State's recruiting class. last that year. And, you know, he has a good chance to be a first round pick. So it's just really interesting to look at, I think it's important. In every single report, I include, okay, what, what, what, what, what, what went into their decision to go where they did, you know, why were they under-recruited? Why did, you know, the, just the circumstances were what they were. It's just an important, you know, part of the puzzle. And that's why as an evaluator,

you have to be part detective. You have to be part, you know, just, you have to go digging and figure all these details of the why. So sticking with the Giants here, you have them drafting a center, seventh overall. Tyler Lindenbaum from Iowa, which a guy that I have heard about and you think about just the offensive line factory that Iowa has been. But like you note in your mock draft today, it has been a long, long time since the center was drafted in the top 10. Why is this guy worth it?

Why would you be willing to kind of eschew positional value in this particular circumstance? part of it is this draft class when you look at it and say okay well who is the seventh best player in this class you know Tyler Linderbump could be that guy and I am part of it is if Gettelman is still the GM still making these decisions he Linderbom just screams Gettlement you know which just the way he I don't know if it's a good or bad thing no it's it's more reality than anything one good or bad with Linderbom I mean you see the quickness his ability to reach block is just, it's exceptionally so quick. I mean, he's what teams wanted Garrett Bradbury to be, you know, like just that, the athletic, the, he's going to punch you in the mouth, he's going to finish every single

play. You know, he's got that Jason Kelsey to him where he's not the biggest dude, but he overcomes that because he plays so quick, so hard, so aggressive, so active with his hands. You know, there's just a lot to like about Linderbaum that if you're picking top 10 and you need an upgrade on your offensive line, it's not hard to talk yourself into Linderbom, even if it is top 10. You know, we saw a tight end be drafted higher than any other tight end ever last year. And I don't think, you know, not too many people were disagreeing with that. And I think it kind of be similar with Linderbom if he ends up sneaking into that top 10.

My only argument with that would be that Pitts was such a generational prospect in terms of physical tools. And with a guy like that, you can blur lines, right? he's a tight end. In reality, he's just a receiver so you can talk yourself into that. Your center is just going to be a center. And you mentioned Jason Kelsey. Jason Kelsey is a six-round pick. And that's the argument.

I think centers are incredibly valuable, especially if you're going to be moving on from a quarterback, if you're going to be looking for another young quarterback in the next couple of years, having somebody you trust that that position is huge. But where can you find those guys? I think that's the argument. But if he's that kind of prospect, you're not going to hear me to cry drafting a.

center in the top 10 if he's deserving. I love that. But to me, the question is, what does this team look like? Where do they want to go? I have no idea what this offseason for the Giants should look like. You think about what their spring last year was, right? You draft Cadarius Tony in the first round. You give Kenny Goliday a $20 million free agent deal. I have no idea what their path out of this version of the roster is. And having two picks in the top 10 will help. But Lord knows, direction those are going to go in. Well, and that's why doing a mock draft at this point in the process is tough. Because, yeah, we don't, who's going to be making these picks?

Who's going to be the head coach? You know, if they do stand pat with the current structure, okay, well, then they're going to make an important higher offense coordinator. And, you know, so there's just, yeah, there's a lot of unknown we don't know there. But yeah, I'm with you. I'm fascinated to see what direction the Giants go in after the season, especially I quarterback. That's where it's really interesting is Daniel Jones. There's so much that you point to and say,

you know, he can do this, you can do this, he can do this. But it just seems like the game moves way too fast for him. And when it does, he's not accurate. He's not hitting the guy in stride. The pocket swells him up. And so what they do at quarterback, you know, the Giants could be. Maybe this is where we see the first quarterback off the board. That's very possible.

So you look at the next two picks, the Eagles have those two. The Eagles have their pick and the Dolphins pick. They also have a pick at number 14. There's a lot of things happening here, right? So the three guys you had going to the Eagles. are Kyle Hamilton, the safety from Notre Dame, when we talked about. George Carloftus, is that how you pronounce that?

That's it. Purdue Eddrusher and Nacobo Be Dean, the linebacker from Georgia at 14. Three defensive players. Speaks to a couple different things in my mind. One, how transformative this draft could be for the Eagles if they make all these picks, right? Right.

The offense, questions a quarterback aside, which we'll get to in a second. You like the offensive line, what Milata has turned into, Lane Johnson's playing really well. You like Devante Smith. on defense, their entire secondary outside of Darius Slayer Free agents. So you could remake that group.

They don't have any linebackers. They haven't for the last decade. So if you want to go to someone there, we know they love edge rushers. So these picks all make sense to me. The biggest question with the Eagles is going to be, are they going to use these picks to remake their defense and remake their roster on the fly? Or are these picks going to go somewhere else for a quarterback and is another team going to be making three picks in the first round or two more picks in the first round to remake

their roster. That is the central question about what the Eagles are going to do here over the next year. Yeah, it's the Jalen Hertz question. And do you, I don't know that Jalen Hurts has done enough that you're, you're buying in. Okay, we're going to definitely build around him for the future, but he's probably done enough where you want to see him another year. And I'm not sure there's another quarterback in this draft that you say, okay, well, he's a clear upgrade for us. And so Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the Eagles try to turn one of these first round picks into a first round pick next year. So they have that ammo going into 20, 23 draft.

So if the Hertz does not work out, then they can go make a move. So I would agree it's probably less likely they make all three picks here. But if they do, and when we should point out, it's the, that pick of 14 is the Colts pick that I think it's pretty close to turning into that first round pick. It's what, 70%? unless Carson once goes down with an injury or something, that's going to happen. So it's going to be interested in which direction the Eagles going. If they go this route, which is this is upgrading the defense, there's going to be some

players to do it. In this scenario, Kyle Hamilton's available. Like I said, he might be the best just overall talent in this draft. He's a hybrid safety who's, you know, six three and a half, 220 pounds. His range is exceptional. He's a guy that sees the field, the whole field really well, makes play side line to sideline. His anticipation is awesome. So as long as you're comfortable drafting a safety that early, Kyle Hamilton's a home run.

Carl Lafdis is a little tough because he doesn't have the length that you want. He's a great story. Born in Greece, came over here when he was an eighth grade and really is just the motor's outstanding. You talk about skilled hands. Karloftus, that's what he has. He's so impressive with his hand exchange, his handwork. but I know some teams that have a second round great on him. Other teams think he's going top 20.

So Carl Loftus is a little bit of all over the place in terms of what teams think about him. And then the Kobe Dean at 14, Jonathan Vilma of 2.0. You're addressing every level of the defense here for the Eagles. And the Eagles traditionally don't draft linebackers in the first round. But when you got three of them and linebacker is an area where you need to get better, Dean could be a guy that breaks that screw. I want to talk about Hamilton for a second because I'm just so. interested in guys like this who kind of fall between the cracks positionally and whether we

construe that as a good or bad thing. So when you're looking at him, where would you play him? In an ideal world, if we're even talking Eagles aside, where would you put him in the NFL you were starting from scratch? You know, I think that's part of the appeal with him is you can be, you can use him in a different way. If you want him to, because this is how they use him at Notre Dame in that Marcus Freeman scheme. I mean, they would line him up single high. They'll line them up you know, split safety. They'll line them up closer to the box. I mean, he can do all these things because, you know, he has a little bit of linebacker to him. He has the range of a safety. So I think part of the appeal with Kyle Hamilton is using that versatility, using that ability

to play all these different spots, whether it's man, whether it's zone. You know, he's got that rare range, that long striding speed. He's so good from depth where he sees plays happening. And he doesn't think about it. Just click, boom. go and he's making plays. And so he's got the physical traits and that mentality that will impact the scoreboard. He is that type of dude, natural football instincts. So he's an easy guy to like. Now, he also had a knee injury that's kept him off the field the second half Notre Dame season. So the medicals will be important with him. But I think it was number three on Bruce Feldman's freak list, like that type of athlete. Plus, I think he has the instincts

to match. And that that's a really lethal combination. We talk about safety. Because I, I, The more and more I talk with, you know, have conversations with scouts and coaches, and we talk about the safety position. It's all about mentality. It's all about you have to understand what is going. Because, you know, in a lot of ways, you know, the linebacker mirrors the running back, corner mirrors the wide receiver. The safety, you're mirroring the quarterback.

So you have to be smarter than the quarterback and understand, okay, what is he seeing? What does he want to do? You have to play one step ahead. And Kyle Hamlet could potentially do that. It's such an interesting point. I think it's 100% right. And that's why. I feel like scouting safeties is such an art in the way that things currently work

because with how complex some of the zone coverages are and some of the things that you need to do, I mean, obviously the Rams and what they did with John Johnson and with Jordan Fuller last year is the thing that jumps out to me where you're playing all of those split safety shells. And I mean, you're asking them to just read route distribution in this really advanced way. And it's so much between the ears. And that's why I think when we fall in love with back seven players that have these physical profiles, it can be the reason that we're disappointed at first, right? When Isaiah Simmons came out, I'm not comparing the two necessarily,

but you have this guy with this incredible array of physical gifts. Like, oh, he can play all these different places. That's not, it's hard to do with it than it might see him. I mean, that's not easy to pull off. You have guys that you need to have it upstairs and you need to be able to process all of that stuff in order to do that. So that's why you have these guys, these incredible physical toolboxes. but when you're playing safety or you're playing linebacker and the game has to slow down for you

for you to even use those things it can be a transition yeah but i and i think he is scheme proof i do think that uh no what you ask him because he has that the high IQ that you're looking for i i do think that he can adapt and you know he's not going to be someone that you're worried about now i don't think you want to line him up in manned coverage against the tight end and the slot receiver uh you know every play, but I think he can at least do that and, you know, these different things. If you, if you took Isaiah Simmons and Justin Simmons and kind of put them together, I think the result would be Kyle Hamilton, you know, that type of player. Interesting.

That sounds intriguing to me. I'm moving to that. All right. Here's where things get wild. You have Kenny Pickett, the quarterback from Pitt, going to the Panthers at number 10. There is a lot to unpack here for many different reasons. One, the Panthers will be paying Sam Donald $18 million next year. no matter how this goes because they picked up his fifth year option.

Two, the Panthers had a chance to draft two quarterbacks in the top 10 last year and not having to pay Sam Donald any money and they chose not to do it. Three, Kenny Pickett. I mean, I did not know his name coming into this season. This quarterback class is apparently all over the place. So let's just start with that question. Why can he pick it? Why is he the first quarterback off the board to you in this class?

Yeah, plus you factor in that they use a second. round pick this year to get Darnold. So their first two picks would essentially be for the quarterback. So, yeah, it's wild. But, you know, look, they tried the first round, you know, former first round pick that didn't work out with Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold and now Cam Newton. I mean, but it's just not working out.

I mean, so what are your options? You hope Aaron Rogers is coming to Charlotte. But if he's not, you have to look towards a draft and see, okay, does, I guess, guy like Kenny Pickett, is he worth it for us? Kenny Pickett was, he was going to be in last year's draft. He was a senior last year, was probably going to be somewhere in that fourth, fifth, six-round range. He decides to take advantage of that COVID year, comes back to Pitt. And he looks like Joe Burrow. And part of it is, and I did a long piece, a film room piece with Mark Whipple, his offensive coordinator, who spent a lot of time in the NFL, did an extensive film room

piece on the athletic so people can go check that out. It's really insightful just to hear him, you know, the big differences between Pickett last year and this year and how he's improved and how experience is, you know, the more you see is just, it changes the way you play the game. And so with Kenny Pickett having that extra year of experience, it just has really changed the way he plays. And they really, they run an offense similar to how Joe Burrow ran an offense at LSU, a lot of five-man protections. You're really putting it all on your quarterback to decipher the defense, understand where the pressure is coming from, you know, read with your eyes up while you're moving, negotiating the pocket.

And Kenny Pickett's been able to do that. There are some clips where, you know, you see him throw off platform and he's making these accurate throws where it needs to be. And so it's just, it's a, when you talk to scouts, when you get league feedback, definitely a lot of love for Pickett in terms of we know what we're getting with him. We feel like he's, he's an NFL starter. We don't, we're not quite sure on his ceiling, but we feel like he's an NFL starter. And we feel like we know the type of human being that's coming into our building.

and what he's going to give us. And so there's value on that for teams looking for the quarterback position. And that's why Kenny Pickett at least has a chance to be the first quarterback off the board. Now, he's the big things against him, we're going to hear about hand size a lot. He's got eight and a half inch hands below average. I don't think you necessarily. My hands are. It's terrifying.

Exactly. Below nine inch hands is kind of rare to see. I mean, Troy Aikman had traditionally or historically smaller hands for a bigger quarterback. but it just doesn't happen very often. He wears gloves, you know, the Teddy Bridgewater thing. But you don't really see the smaller hands show up with him as a passer. Now, as a runner and ball security, you do. He has got like 35 career fumbles.

That's something you take into account here with Pickett. He, you know, force throws at times. His deep all accuracy is average. But he doesn't have a fatal flaw to his game where you say, well, I really worry about this, translate. to that next level. So when you factor in, you know, he doesn't have a lot of wow factor,

but when you factor in the football IQ, the functional mobility, accuracy from various platforms, you see a guy that I think he falls somewhere in between Joe Burrow and Teddy Bridgewater. He's somewhere in between those two quarterbacks as a prospect and as a next level projection. And so each team's going to look at this a little bit differently.

Do you feel like in the conversations that you've had, just about the quarterback position in general, as relates to this class. Do you think the success that Joe Burrow and Mac Jones have had over the last couple of years is going to color the way that people see the guys we would deem low ceiling prospects? Right. The high floor, yeah, I think that's, that is something that, you know, just like we talked about, you know, Devin Lloyd and Michael Parsons, I absolutely.

I think that's something that there's a lot of recency bias. And we're seeing guys that maybe not have that wow factor in a Joe Burrow, and a Mac Jones still have success because, you know, the play calling is putting them in position to be successful. And, you know, the guys, you know, they're leaning on their strengths as a quarterback. And it might not necessarily be the guys that have the low 40-yard dash numbers, the guy that can throw it through a brick wall. But they're smart and they process quickly and they understand what to do with the ball. They understand what the defense is trying to do.

And that's what Kenny Pickett offers. And so I liked Kenny Pickett a lot last year. I thought that, you know, he was going to be a mid-round guy. I'd love to draft and that type of thing, but never thought he would make this type of jump. And it's going to be interesting ultimately where he ends up. And the whole quarterback conversation is going to be interesting. Where does Matt Corral end up? And Sam How are these guys first rounders?

I'm not sure what to think of it right now because all the league feedback I get is all over the place. I think Pickett has received the most votes in terms of we feel comfortable with him. But that's comfortable with him is not exactly the most reing endorsement. going to hear. So it's just a really weird quarterback group. So you have Sam Howe going at 16 to Pittsburgh. You have Matt Corral going at 19 to Washington. Let's just talk about Sam Howell as a prospect. He's somebody that had been talked about as potential top five, top 10 pick before the season. Now you have him in the middle of the first round. I don't know how real any of that is. But where would you say his 2021 and how what sort of impact has that had on the way the people in

the league view him? Well, it looks like a very different offense. You know, last year, obviously, with those two running backs, Javante Williams and Michael Carter. And the running, he had two guys receiver drafted. I mean, it just looks like a different offense this year where they're asking him to use his legs a lot more.

There's a lot more horizontal passes in this offense. And I think a big part of it is just, you know, they're not asking him to do too much because I don't think the people, the supporting cast around him is really capable of that. And so, you know, whether it's the offensive line or his weapons, it's kind of holding a,

back a little bit with Sam Howl. But I know teams are still, they're bullish on him. They still believe like this guy, he, you know, since he showed up as a freshman at North Carolina, you could tell he's a little bit different. And so he's, he's got the arm, he's got the mobility. He has like 600-yard rushing games this year just because of how they're using him. It's really, really weird. And so I don't know that, you know, like this year, it's not going to necessarily help him.

But I think teams are, you know, I've said before, there's, you know, reasons and excuses. I think that the situation he's been in has been more of a reason than excused and teams are still going to value him, you know, fairly high. Somewhere, some teams view him in the first round. Some teams think he's more of a second rounder, but they still see a guy that can come in and start games in the NFL. He's a little undersized, right? Is he only like 6'1, yeah, yeah, he's not a big guy.

I mean, he's like kind of like a little like baker size-wise where he's not my thought, yeah. Yeah, not small, you know, but he's not tall either. Okay. And then with Corral, what's the story with him? And obviously he's somebody that, again, has had a pretty good year, right? I mean, that old miss offense has been exciting.

I remember talking about him is just an exciting guy coming into the season. Remember Andy Staples said, if you weren't a college football fan, he's somebody that you'd want to watch just because of the entertainment factor that he brings. What sort of season has he had? Do you feel like he could be somebody

that jumps these other two guys? Where are we out with Matt Corral? Yeah, me personally, Matt Carrell is actually my number one quarterback in his class. You know, just part of that is the traits that he offers. Everything he does is quick. His feet, his eyes, the way he processes things. All the decision making, it's very quick.

And so athleticism is a big part of his game, you know, throwing from different platforms. Everything it does is quick and natural. And the tough thing is that lane kippen offense. You know, it's a very RPO based offense. A lot of predetermined reads, you know, where, you know, he, Corral knows before the snap where he's going based off of the look he's getting for the defense. He knows where to go with the football. And so, you know, there's some questions about his ability to read post-snap and things like that that he needs to get better as a pocket quarterback.

And the other big issue with him is size. I mean, he is, looks about he's like 205 pounds. There's a lot of parallels with Zach Wilson from a year ago in terms of not being the biggest guy, plays, you know, really quick, almost frenetic at times. But it's kind of, you know, part of what makes him a really exciting player, a really capable quarterback. it's just that projection to more of a pro-style scheme. I don't even know what pro-style means anymore, but that transition to the NFL where he's going to have to make more post-snap reads

from within the pocket. He's going to have to do more than just, you know, work outside the pocket and, you know, use his legs to make plays. It just a little bit of a projection there, but the talent level is really exciting. I mean, huge difference between him and Zach Wilson, right? It's just level of competition.

We get to see him against every single week. I mean, that was such a huge question with Will where it's, you know, the one game against Houston. And other than that, you don't really see him playing against defenses that NFL level talent. It feels like Corral probably does that every single week, right? Right. And the thing with Matt Corral is, you know, last year,

interceptions were a problem. And this year, you've really cut down on those. And so making better decisions, Ole misses, you know, that 10 wins this year for the first time ever. And so, you know, a big reason for that has been the quarterback and what Matt Corral has been able to do kind of running that ship. Last thing with the quarterbacks. Any dark horse first rounders?

Any guys that you feel like could make a big jump between now and May 1st? Well, you know, it's tough because I was talking to a scout earlier today who, you know, we're going over my mock. And I asked them, I was okay, top 25 over under two and a half quarterbacks drafted. And without any hesitation, he's like, oh, yeah, under, under, under. And, you know, it's just, it's weird because, you know, history says these quarterbacks will get pushed up. We could actually have, it's only happened like twice in the last 20 years where we've had more quarterbacks drafted day two than day one. That could absolutely happen this year.

But it's very rare. That second round quarterback that ends up being a starter, you know, we kind of touched on it earlier. It just doesn't happen very often. And so, you know, will we see a little bit more of that this year? It's possible guys like Desmond Ritter from Cincinnati who, you know, is it really experienced player. He's a mobile guy. You wish he had more meat on the bones. You wish his accuracy was a little, not a little, he wishes accuracy was a lot more consistent. But he's just, he's scattershot, you know, he's got this, this long release and it's just, he knows where to go with the football, but the placement's not always there.

But there's a lot to like about Desmond Ritter. And so Malik Willis for Liberty, same type of thing where the talent level is really exciting. It's just, you know, how much further does he have to go before he's ready to start for an NFL team? You know, it's, all these quarterbacks have questions. There's not going to be any consensus. You know, it's funny. Last year, I didn't think we had any consensus with those quarterbacks, you know, with Trevor Lawrence and Trey Lance and Justin Fields and Wilson and Mac Jones.

We didn't have any consensus on those guys, but they were all top 15 picks. These guys, we don't have any consensus on them, and none of them might be top 15 picks. It's just they're going to be those late ones, made the late one early twos. And so each team's going to look at them a little bit differently. outside of those five quarterbacks, we'll have to see what underclassmen, maybe a Carson Strong will come out from Nevada. The only thing I worry about with him,

he's going to be off some boards because his knee, the medicals are pretty bad. The senior class, you know, Bailey Zappi from Western Kentucky, he's got a chance. Bailey, what? Bailey, Houston Baptist transfer to Western Kentucky. You think I'm making that a name of, I know, but no, that's a real guy.

This is why I love this, us, just being able to stumble out of these guys with no prior knowledge is one of my favorite parts of being a football fan. If there's a fourth or fifth rounder in this class who ends up kind of, you know, making some noise, you know, being a Taylor Heineke type of guy, maybe it maybe it's Bailey Zappy in the, in the mid rounds. There's a long conversation to be had on this podcast about the Steelers, about their future quarterback plan, about their future plans in general.

I'm not going to do that to you. We're going to save that for a future show. But that and Washington. I mean, I think that those two teams being the ones you had reaching for a quarterback in that spot makes sense. It makes sense based on what they might need about where they are. Again, that's a conversation for the next six months or so. The last specific pick I wanted to talk to you about was Garrett Wilson going to the Saints at 13. That pipeline is strong.

A Columbus Demeteri pipeline is a lot of juice there. He, I've heard a ton about him. I obviously have seen him play multiple. multiple times that catch against Michigan. He seems to be doing that kind of stuff all the time. Makes sense with the Saints, right? I mean, even with Michael Thomas coming back, just the black hole that they're receiving group has been this season.

They need playmakers. But I wanted to kind of use him as an intro point to talk about this group of playmakers in general because we're now two years in a row, three years in a row having conversations about this being the deepest wide receiver class we've ever seen. It seems like it's an annual thing. This is the first pass catcher you have coming off the board at 13. I think they're four or five in your back half of your first round. But where does this group of pass catchers stack up to the last couple classes that we've seen?

Yeah, I remember talking about this with you last year, about how every year wide receivers just it's going to be a strong group. And, you know, I don't know that this year is necessarily better than the previous two years. I don't think it is. But it's still one of the stronger positions in this class because of the talent that the college ranks are continually giving to the NFL. well, and they're what, they're five receivers in my first round mock. And that didn't include Jahan Dotson from Penn State, who I hated leaving out of there.

So it's just, it's another strong group of pass catchers that, you know, there's some different opinions about who should be one to me. It's maybe not clearly Garrett Wilson, but I feel very comfortable having him as the top receiver. Not the biggest guy, six foot, maybe 190. But his ability, his body control is special. I mean, they're, and I don't use the word special very often, but I'm talking about. about, you know, the DeAndre Hopkins, the Des Bryant, that level of just body control with the way he controls his movement mid-air or in his routes at the stem, all those things. He does it

really flawlessly. And then his instincts with the ball in his hands, he can make guys miss. And that's, you know, I get a lot of questions from Ohio State fans, why Garrett Wilson over Chris Alave. The biggest reason for me is Wilson is a lot better after the catch. He gives you some yak potential where Alavi is just not a tackle breaker. He's not going to not going to continue. consistently give you that yards after the catch where Garrett Wilson, he can make guys miss. He does it frequently almost every single play. He's a true three-level threat, a three-level threat. And I think that's why I think he'd be a perfect fit in New Orleans.

But I mean, Trailerborks from Arkansas, he's a unique guy. He looks like a linebacker, 6-2, 225, and he's going to run really well. There's a lot of ability there. He's kind of in that AJ Brown mold as a wide receiver. That type of guy, Drake, Loll. London is the high pointer, the basketball player who can play above the rim consistently. He's not a bad athlete. He's a fluid guy, but he might not be the best separator, but he consistently wins over defensive backs.

Easy to like him. I think he's going to be somewhere in that 20 to 35 range. And then one of the more interesting guys is Jameson Williams, who was in that Ohio State wide receiver room. Olavet goes back to school. Jameson Williams transfers, goes to Alabama. he becomes the Crimson Tides number one threat at wide receiver. And he's one of the most explosive players in college football.

He's going to run in the mid-four-threes. He is just true explosion out there, shot out of a cannon. It's going to be interesting how all these receivers kind of shape up. It depends what kind of receiver you're looking for. Size-wise, the strengths, what they offer. They all offer something maybe a little bit differently. So the order is going to be different from team to team. But it's a pretty exciting group.

imagine telling you two years ago that you would transfer to Alabama to get more opportunities as a receiver. It's pretty crazy. So Ohio State maybe the one school where that would be the case. It's funny you mentioned, you know, DeAndre Hopkins in relation to Garrett Wilson, and you think, oh, man, only 6 foot 195. Like you can compare him to DeAndre Hopkins. DeAndre Hopkins at the Combine, 6 foot 214 ran a 45740. Oh, yeah. This shit is hard.

Speaking of the 2013 draft, right? I mean, that was, Tavon Austin went top 10 and the D'Andre Hopkins went late first round that year. I mean, he's one of those guys which I have to beholder stuff. Like, you got to truly appreciate just the subtleties and the nuances of what makes him a great receiver. And it's the body control stuff, right? It's the stuff that does not come out when you're looking at physical testing. He is much smaller than you think. He's slower than you think.

And he is dominant at the position because of the way that. he plays it. And it feels like Garrett Wilson could be a similar kind of guy. All right. Last thing here. We got conference championship games this weekend. We got a lot of great college football on tap. I don't even have to make up like a hypothetical listener for you to do this to.

You can say this straight to me. As a casual college football fan and a draft lover, which game should I be tuning into this weekend? Well, it starts on Friday night. The Pac-12 championship game, Oregon and Utah, two of the guys we talked about in the top six picks. Kavana Thibado. Number five, he usually lines up to the boundary. He was quiet two weeks ago when these two teams played. So I'm eager to see him go back out there.

Okay, you just saw this team, this offense, this offensive line. You just saw them two weeks ago. How are you going to respond this time around for Thibodeau? How's Utah's offensive line? Average. I mean, they've got one guy in the interior that might go pro, but it's not. I don't think it's a group that you're looking at.

and saying, okay, this is NFL quality. And then for Utah, we talked about him, Devin Lloyd at linebacker, sports that number zero jersey. He was outstanding against Oregon two weeks ago. They didn't have any answer for him. The running game, you could tell the running backs are just getting frustrated because Lloyd was getting to them in the backfield consistently. So watch those two defensive players in the Pack 12 championship game.

That's Friday night. And then on Saturday, SEC title game, Georgia, Alabama. This is going to be a lot of fun. Alabama, they couldn't do much against Aubrey. defense, it's going to get even tougher against Georgia's defense. If you haven't watched George's defense, it's a lot of fun. So I've been saving it. I've been saving it. I have not

settled in to truly watch it this year. Every time they've been on, it's when I have not been sitting by a TV. The timing of it just hasn't worked out well. I'm making a point this weekend. I'm curling up on the couch. I'm going to watch them play because I really need to. Jordan Davis, you know, all the other guys that we've talked about, I really have not gotten to watch them as much

as I want to. So this and the playoff. I'll be watching a decent amount of Georgia football here over the next month or so. It's so much fun to watch them play. And they sub a lot so those guys are fresh. And I think I had, what, three Georgia, four Georgia defenders in my top 20. It's just a really fun group. But they're one area where they're maybe a little lean is corner. You know, they lost what Stokes and Anderson in the draft. And so, you know, they have some younger guys out there. And maybe that's one area where you can attack them if you're Bryce Young. Alabama's run game is kind of a mess right now,

a lot of injuries. And so it's just really going to be tough for Alabama to score points. But very eager to see if Jameson, John Metchy, the two receivers for Alabama, if they can make some noise. Because that's how Alabama's only shot. They have to win with those receivers.

Those are the playmakers on that steam. Does George have an edge rusher to watch against Evan Neal? A matchup that you think would be worth watching or no? So they don't really use. edge rusher the way that you want them to like Trouin Walker number 44 275 pounds and he moves like he's 215 he's just got this ridiculous body control but they don't line them up and say just go get the quarterback they like to blitz a lot with their linebackers Nacobo be Dean they'll blitz with him a lot Quay Walker so

Devonte Wyatt number 95 he's kind of not as good version of 99 Jordan Davis but he's pretty darn good to go in the third round so yeah from top to bottom this defense is loaded. Lewis seen at number 16, the safety, you'll see him flying around. So Georgia defense, they might have 10 draft picks this year alone. It's just crazy loaded. Houston at Cincinnati, I think is worth checking out just to see Desmond Ritter. You want to see him throw around, throw the ball around a little bit.

Michigan versus Iowa later on, just check in Aiden Hutchinson. Also need to check out David Adjabo, the other defense event from Michigan, who had the Browns taking at number 15 overall. Great story. You know, he's kind of this year's Jason Oway, where. started playing football as a junior in high school, you know, just doesn't have the background of,

you know, playing football at a young age and learning. And so he's still figuring things out. The big difference between OJabo and O'Way, O'A had that big zero next to Sacks last year. OJabo's got nine already. So this guy is a freak, and he's got the production to back it up. So can I would do anything to slow down,

Hutchinson on one side, OJabo on the other? I don't think they'll be able to, but it's still fun to watch those guys. I don't know you're locked into the center. I'm going to be watching the Iowa Center all day. There you go. Yeah, that'll be a big part of what they do.

Because they looked at the control of the line of scrimmage, and it'll be tough to do that. They're going to use Tyler Goodson a lot, the running back, pit and Wake Forest that last game. Just like, you know, worth checking out Cincinnati, see Desmond Ritter, worth tuning into Pitt to see Kenny Pickett. He's got a chance at the Heisman.

You know, he really does. There's no clear-cut winter this year. I'm hoping that, you know, the defensive guys, Aidan Hutchinson, Will Anderson from Alabama. One of those two guys can get enough love. So really, and that's something else to watch this weekend, can Will Anderson or Aidan Hutchinson really have that Hysman moment where they take over a game and you can argue they've already done that,

but doing it all year. But for a defensive player to win the Heisman, they're going to have to continually do that, especially on the biggest weekend of the year from the schedule. Well, it's my goal and my challenge here over the next four or five days is to convince my roommate that I need to watch college football for like 12 hours on Saturday before watching the NFL for 12 hours on Sunday. I'll make it happen.

I can get it done. I feel like this is the week to do it. Exactly. Exactly. So I definitely want to watch Kenny Pickett. I definitely want to watch the quarterbacks. And that Georgia defense, I've had it circled for a while. So I'm excited to watch all that stuff.

If you guys are not big time college football watchers, even if you are, please take this as a guide. Dane, thank you very much, sir. really appreciate you doing this. And guys, please be on the lookout as we get toward draft season, as we get toward the end of the NFL season for prospects to pros as it comes into the feed. Really, really pumped to have that as part of the rotation and part of the athletic football show family

and just the coverage that we give you guys overall. So I appreciate you doing that, man. Anytime. Thanks, Robert. All right, guys, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back tomorrow with Lindsay. In the meantime, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice.

please subscribe to The Athletic. That's where you can go check out Dane's first mock draft, all the other NFL coverage that we have coming to you guys every single day. We'll be back tomorrow. Talk to you guys soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.