The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - DeAndre Hopkins, Jalen Ramsey, and the other top trade candidates of the 2023 NFL offseason; Plus, the bizarre disavowals of interest in Lamar Jackson

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

Two of the biggest acquisitions last March—Davante Adams and Tyreek Hill—weren't free agent signings, but trades. Which veterans could get moved during this offseason's free agent frenzy? Robert Mays and Nate Tice discuss nearly 20 such guys on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.First, though, they consider some of the fallout from the Lamar Jackson and Daniel Jones moves now that we have more information.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeToday's show is brought to you by...Atlassian: For projects impossible alone, visit www.atlassian.comPhilo: Sign up today at philo.tv and use promo code MAYS to get 50% off your first month2:31 Really? No one wants Lamar Jackson? Really?16:22 More details on the Daniel Jones contract31:57 Veteran trade candidates, starting with DeAndre Hopkins37:51 Jalen Ramsey44:15 Mike Evans and Chris Godwin48:07 Brandin Cooks51:28 Laremy Tunsil53:50 Tyron Smith56:07 Derrick Henry58:41 Chargers veterans on defense62:11 Za'Darius Smith65:02 Interior defensive linemen74:38 Nate's guys! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How are you doing, buddy? Doing very well. We soldier on.

This is, I know we have all these kind of shows in the hopper or guys were planning it. And I had to check in and I was like, we're doing, what are we doing today? We're doing trades. Okay, here we go. Let's whip up the cap sites. Let's start looking at some rosters, see who's overloaded, some positions. This was fantastic. It's a great thought exercise to kind of really start piecing together.

Like, oh, this guy could be in a move. Look at the rumor mill a little bit. I'm very excited to get into this because this is a, I love our theory shows, you know, like where you throw out some stuff, you know, throw out some ideas. See what sticks. And I'm excited to get going on this. I love fake trades. I've always loved fake trades.

It's one of my favorite parts of doing this. It's like, first job. Who could be available here? You know, what sort of guys? And you take a look at who's got. huge cap hits. Who's hitting free agency next year that might be a candidate because the team doesn't want to resign them.

C.J. Gardner-Jotson was like that last off season where he got moved because at a certain point you can only pay so many guys. So are there players in that category? Are there some rebuilding teams that need to ship off players? So we're going to get into, I don't know, 10, 12, 15 guys. We're going to go in a list of 10 that there aren't going to just be 10 because that's just not how it works on this show.

Before we dig into the list, though, I wanted to do some housekeeping from the show that we did yesterday because some things happened really right after we stopped recording. The first of which was the kind of bizarre collective response from a bunch of different teams leaking to reporters that after the Lamar Jackson news came down that he was going to be given the non-exclusive tag and would be available to a certain extent, they were not interested. There were rumblings about the Falcons, the Panthers, you know, a couple of people talked about how the Raiders wouldn't want to do it. hard to see that and not have your antenna go up because we don't see that.

Why would teams do that? Why would teams immediately and collectively to a certain extent want to put out there that they do not have any interest in even negotiating or pursuing Lamar Jackson? So when you saw that, what was your initial thought about what the motivation might be? NFL, I'm so jaded by the NFL that it's that I'm not shocked. person to ask, you know, where the finances are buried. Because I even, I messaged you and I was, I'm grocery shopping after a show and I was just kind of like, man, there's a lot of backlash. Maybe I'm just not surprised and maybe I, it's, but the fact that I'm not surprised doesn't mean in my upbringing and all that.

I sometimes have to take my step away from that. It's like, yes, I may be jaded. And it's like, of course it's how the NFL acts. That doesn't mean it's not a big deal. You know, it doesn't mean it's not notable or something to talk about. And that's something I always have to separate with my own thought process with this and actually what's going on with the world. Yeah, maybe I'm in my own collective bubble of how I view the NFL and everything. But you're telling me that a former MVP that's 26 years old, I'm in the prime of his career is an upgrade over a vast majority of NFL quarterbacks.

And teams within a half hour after hearing the news for the first time, air quotes, for the first time hearing the news about the non-exclusive tender. and they're going to just say, yeah, we're out right away. And I get that NFL teams can publicly say whatever they want. It's not a binding thing that they said because they sent out some tweet or they told some reporter, you know, through the grapevine that they're not interested. But yeah, the speed of it was very surprising and it's very, you know, I understand the C word is getting thrown around, but it's the NFL. And it's really interesting that a player that's been drawing a line in the sand against

this team or negotiating with this team that represents himself. And there's also the variable of the Deshaun Watson fully guaranteed contract that just seemed like NFL teams are kind of going like, we're trying to take control back here. And this is all just me. Observations are reading between the lines. I think a million of us have done this, but that just what it seems to be to me. And they can say and point out Lamar's injury history, yes, he has missed 10 games over the last two seasons.

That is not insignificant. kid. But it's Lamar Jackson, former MVP, 26 years old. And you kind of gloss over those things. There's a lot worse quarterback started getting paid Daniel Jones that have their qualms and you're not going to pay him at 26 years old. So yeah, it's kind of one of those things where I was shocked by, I was the shocked by the shock reaction from everybody. But once I took a step back, I'm like, yeah, it makes sense. I get why everyone's kind of like pissed off and pointing fingers right now. A team traded a first round pick and change to take on Carson, his contract two years ago.

Yes. Daniel Jones just got $45 million a year. If we're being generous, let's say it's $37 million over those first three years. I know that's not all guaranteed, but the first three years, there's $94 million of that guaranteed over those first three years. A team traded two first round picks and more, a bunch of picks, to go get Russell Wilson last year after a down season as he went into his 30s. A team traded two first round picks to take out Matthew Stafford's deal and then extended

him to get themselves over the hump with their quarterback position. This feels like a message being sent that we're not going to do business this way. You're not with a precedent that was set last year is not a real precedent. And we're taking control back exactly like you said. This is a reminder about who's in charge. Good for you guys. Right. This is your line in the sand.

Cool. Look at all the desperation quarterback moves that we've seen over the last few years. If I were one of these teams and one of these owners that just doesn't give a shit, it's just a swing we're taking for some team. And even if, I thought the Jason Fitzgerald had a really good point about this from over the cap today, you can trade quarterback contracts. As long as you don't get a no trade clause in there, if you're worried about the fully guaranteed deal, and he's got, especially after the Jones contract, I just think it's going to be hard to check in anything less than like 50 million, 48 million a year fully guaranteed.

So let's say it's four years, $50 million a year, $200 million fully guaranteed. If you get two years into that deal and you feel like, you know, it's just not where we want it to be, you could probably move that. And a team could sign them to a fake extension and get that cap number down. We've seen much worse quarterbacks moved with seemingly prohibitive deals that they're playing. So I just don't think the downside is as drastic as people trying to explain this away with logic or making it out to be. I think this is a line in the sand being drawn by the other side after,

Lamar has stood by his conviction and how he's going to go about this negotiation. And I understand what they're trying to do, but I also think that they're kind of laying it out pretty plainly what they're trying to do. That's what is the gross part of this, is if this happened where, yeah, the no market came privately and all that, okay, that's one thing. But they kind of showed how the sausage was made. And that's, that was kind of the gross aspect of this. And again, as someone that's literally been around the NFL my entire life, it's not,

It's nothing stunning to personally. But they're, you're going to say, I know they're going to have these excuses of why you wouldn't want to sign a guy that has carried, I don't know, Deshawn Jackson off, you know, off the street and throwing touchdowns to him. And Greg Roman's passing game offense from the year 1998, you know, that and also make it look good. The best receiver he has played with by far is Marquis Brown, at wide receiver. By far.

You look back at what's happens in 2018, 2019. I mean, the stats are absolutely wild. If you look at what he did in his MVP season, and I know that that was three years ago. In Lamar's MVP season, okay, only one player on the team caught more than 50 passes, and that was Mark Andrews. Marquise Brown had 584 receiving yards that year. That's insane. Okay. So that's the year they won the MVP, and they were the most efficient offense in football.

I know the running game is a huge part of that. Yeah. And part of those volume stats are driven by the fact that they don't throw it a ton. but I think the point still stands. The year after that, Marquise Brown had 58 catches, tied with Mark Andrews for the team lead. No one else on the team had more than 33. And throw out some of the names that are on that roster too. Devin DuVernay had 26 targets.

Willie Sneed had 48 targets. Miles Boykin had 33 targets. Okay, we go to 2021. Throw out some more names here. We got Sammy Watkins gets 27 targets. Rashad Bateman gets 46 in a year where he's. he came back from injury. James Prochet gets the ball thrown to him 20 times.

Marquise Brown again is their number one receiver by far. And then you go into this season and DeMarcus Robinson. Yep. DeMarcus Robinson was the most targeted wide receiver on the team this year. Receiver five for the Chiefs. He got cut by the Raiders. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's right. Even after that. A year before that he was receiver four or five. They were like, yeah, no, we're moving on from this when they needed receivers. Think about the mental gymnastics that people are doing right now to justify why Daniel Jones is worth $40 million. It's unbelievable. Because he's never had any receivers and what can we get him to? We've seen Lamar if he's one of the most dynamic players in the league.

He doesn't, these are excuses for Daniel Jones. I don't want to knock Daniel Jones. He has improved, but it's kind of a hammer anyways. But he has running ability. He's improved and he's thrown to no receivers. Okay. Lamar is two tiers better as a runner, has never thrown to a good receiver and like still produced to be a pro-bow caliber, all-pro caliber quarterback, not league average quarterback

that what Daniel Jones is getting paid off of. A needle-moving quarterback of which there are not that many. Even if you want to say that Lamar is a tier down from the best quarterbacks in the league, which I think is fair. That's fair. That's fair. That's where I have them. Based on the last couple seasons that he had. I have him as a second tier quarterback. That's where I have him. Even if he's the sixth best quarterback in football, the seventh best quarterback in football, Daniel Jones, I think, graciously, is the 17th, 18th, best quarterback in football, right? That's fair. And that's probably where he is.

So this is a guy who truly can make a difference for you. And if you don't want to go down that road, fine. But the idea that you don't even want to talk to him. Yeah, that's what's gross. I understand he wants a fully guaranteed deal, but the market's going to be what the market's going to be. If you give him a contract and it's the best one that he gets and you can get it. him for a shade under what Kyler got paid. The Kyler deal is the one I would keep coming back to.

That's the one. It's like this guy has quote unquote injury history and also is slider built or, you know, different built than the other quarterbacks and just lay it out. Just lay it out. This is the deal. Take it or leave it. And if he doesn't have a better offer,

does he really want to go back and play on the tag for one year with the Ravens? The idea that you wouldn't even want to have a conversation with him, that just what's silly to me. I mean, there's a chance that he's going to sit there and say, I want a fully guaranteed deal or nothing. and then he goes back and plays on the tag. But what do you lose outside of time?

Right. And a little bit. One Zoom call. You're mildly inconvenienced to kick the tires on a guy who is unlike any other player in the league. At the most important position in sports. And it's a needle mover. Like, I mean, usually this is kind of a no-brainer. And even, you know, some people have said, oh, it's, Lamar's passing has always been dinged.

And even this year, it was remarkable to me, you know, before kind of injury started cropping up, I would say the first. third of the season. I even wrote about it in one of my articles was how improved he had even been working from the pocket. He was trying and succeeding at staying in the pocket and not just defaulting to scrambling. This offense would even provide him with checkdowns. They would lock the running back in protection and not even provide him with answers. This offense, by design, was using his legs as a checkdown, which I understand that that is a thing and that's a component of his game and it is a weapon, but this offense was not even giving him those. I've said sometimes those easy buttons were never there in this offense.

The passing game is hard. Greg Roman's passing game is a very difficult passing game. They have a lot of read routes for whatever reason where two guys are running into the same area. So obviously they don't coach it that well. They all have a lot of digs, a lot of overs, a lot of deep stuff. And then the underneath stuff is not kind of like when you watch, I don't know, you watch Jay one hurts and the Eagles offense.

And oh my God, just look at all the easy buttons they got to hit all the time, all the screens and the cool stuff. They're not running screens to Patrick Ricard. They're running screens to their talented players. But that is a real thing. Ronnie Stanley's been out for game after game after game. All of his help is gone. Like, and this is, and we're going to knock him for it.

We've talked about how much situation matters. And people will say, well, if he's a true star, then he would, you know, overcome that. He did overcome it. He did. Like, win games. Like, put points on the board through, through his ability. So that's where there's such a disconnect where people are, The excuses and the negatives of his game are using that as the full-blown excuse for not paying him when we look over so many other blemishes.

That's my problem. The amount of bargaining that goes on with all these other guys where you're talking yourself into what they can be. Why are we fixated on what Lamar can't be? I just don't understand that. It's what he can do. Yes. There's so many different, again, the bargaining that goes on with these other quarterbacks and rationalizing why they can get to a certain place, you talk yourself into it. And now we have people talking themselves out of somebody who's shown what he can be.

If you don't want to do it, fine. If you don't want to pay $50 million a year, close to fully guaranteed and give up two first-round picks because that's a path. You're locked into it. That is now what you are. And you're one of these teams that's built. It's slow. And you want to work on your timeline. That's fine.

If that's how you ultimately get there, I understand that conclusion. But just dismissing it out of hand seems misguided, especially when we have other teams committing to quarterbacks that aren't nearly as good. Yeah. And rushing to make sure everyone knows that you're not taking a meeting. That, yeah. The fact that you all just came boom, boom, boom. I mean, this happens all the time.

I mean, this was kind of a different circumstances. It's more positive. But I want to say when AJ Green and like Des Brian and maybe another receiver, I'm blanking. I might be missing names. I know AJ Green was one of the names. They all came up for a contract. Julio was right in there at the same time.

I think so. Three receivers all within got announced for the new contracts within the next half. within a half hour, all with different agents. Demarius Thomas might have been in there too. It might have been one too. It all happened at the same time. It was like three of them all within a day. They all got announced and all of them were like within a million dollars of each other with how much day.

And it's like, Jesus, guys. Can you at least like fudge it a little bit? So it's like you guys aren't all working together guys being teams and they're in who, what they're negotiating. But this happens all the time. And I mean, I'm not like not really like technically no, officially no. But I mean, this happens. It's sports.

And these teams have a. prerogative to do this. And that's what it's just, like I said, when you see the sausage getting made like that, it's kind of, it's kind of disgusting, even if I've seen it happen time and time again. All right. Let's talk about some of the details with the Daniel Jones contract here very quickly. Pro football talk came out with some of the actual numbers. He had, we were kind of close on the signing bonus.

He said 32 million and ended up being 36 million. And what they did is they just kept the base salary lower in year one. So he has a $9.5 million base salary this year cap it about $19 million, which means his 2024 cap it is about 45 million. million. In 2025, it goes back down, just figuring out why that might be the case. A lot of the contract extensions that the Giants would have to sign. The Giants right now, if they cut Kennedy Gallaudet, with Daniel Jones's $45 million cap on the roster, would have $140,000, $250 million in cap space with a cap of $250 million. Tons of room. That's because they have no players.

Right. I mean, there are no players on the team outside of Daniel Jones, Leonard Williams, to Dory Jackson and like Caban Tibino and Evan Neal, the guys they drafted last year. So Dexter Lawrence is hitting free agency. Andrew Thomas is hitting free agency. Xavier McKinney is hitting free agency. Sequin Barclay would be hitting free agency. But if you sign those guys to extensions, you can keep those first year cap numbers low. So by the time they start to get expensive, Daniel Jones is either going to be a little bit less

expensive in 2025 or in 2026. You can move on from him and kind of pivot. I spent so much fucking time yesterday thinking about this. don't know why. I'm just fascinated by the choice. And again, the question being coming back to what are you trying to do with this type of quarterback contract? And the more I've thought about it, it's like, I just kind of shrug. It's like, okay. You know, like it, that's, I understand it. You don't want to take a step back after what you were last year. So now you are going about this where you're trying to build up your roster after having committed to a win with quarterback early in

your team building process. And that is possible. You know, we've seen examples of that. We talked about the Jared Goff example with the Lions a little bit earlier yesterday. And I think that something I didn't mention that's worth mentioning is that what they've done over the last couple years where they're staying competitive and they're staying relevant and they're building a culture, there's value to that.

But I think eventually you need to dismount off that guy if you're going to get over the top. So what does that dismount look like? The Lions can do it now. The Lions had multiple extra first round picks. as they committed that salary to Jared Goff, and there wasn't much guaranteed into years two, three, four, so they can pivot when they want to. So we'll see what happens with the Lions.

I think that's the best recent case that you would look at. The best case, obviously, is what the chiefs did with Alex Smith, right? You're paying Alex Smith 11% of the salary cap. You start building this winning culture with Andy Reid. You start building up the offense. You see what you have in Tyree Kill. You see what you have in Travis Kelsey.

And then when it comes time, breaking case of emergency, you trade up from 27 to 10 and you drop. You get the most talented quarterback I've ever seen with the 10th pick in the draft after trading up in that draft. He's the second quarterback taken because a certain team took a certain North Carolina quarterback with a second pick in that draft. The amount of things that had to happen for them to pull that off. And then the other example, I think if you're trying to, okay, it's early in the team building

process. What can we get out of this? The Jimmy Garoppolo situation with San Francisco, which I love talking with coaches about this because I'm fascinated by it. If you have a win-with quarterback, a guy who is a tier two, tier three-ish player, what is the plan? What is the path? And multiple coaches that I've talked to that have teams with these sorts of quarterbacks or have built this way, bring up Jimmy Garoppolo in San Francisco. And they're like, oh, you know, if he makes that throw to Emmanuel Sanders or De Quisky Cart doesn't drop that interception, like, where could the Niners have been?

The Niners won four games, the second year of Jimmy Garoppel's deal and got Nick Bosa with the second overall pick because Jimmy Garoppolo got hurt. They front-loaded his deal massively in order to afford some of these players a little bit later on. Again, all the things that had to line up. So I get it. We want to be competitive. We didn't feel like we had an alternative.

This was a way to make sure that we had enough flexibility in the next couple of years. It's not going to preclude us from signing players. I just look back at history. And if you have a $40 million a year quarterback, where is it going to take you. And it might take you where you want to go. Maybe 10, 11 wins over the next couple years and being a team that's consistently in the mix and is building towards something and we'll figure out what the pivot looks like later. That's fine. Joe Shane said today, we can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones. I have my doubts about that. That that's, you know, that's all I'll say.

And this idea that a couple people said yesterday to us on Twitter, it's what you said that players need weapons and, you know, quarterbacks, young quarterbacks need weapons. Why? Why doesn't Daniel Jones get that same sort of grace? The cheap years are over, man. You can trade for Tyree Kill and you can build it that way when you're on a rookie quarterback contract. That becomes harder when your quarterback is making $40 million a year. I know they have some financial flexibility, but they have such a barren roster outside

of a couple of different players. They have so far to go at so many places and having a guy that's taken up $40 million on the cap is a deterrent to that. I mean, that's it. It's all there is to it. A lot of these guys who are young and you're building around them, you're building around them when you have increased flexibility because of what they're making. That is no longer part of the Giants equation right now.

So I get how they arrived at this moment. And I think that this is better than some of the alternatives if this is what you want to do and you want to stay competitive. But I think that we have to be honest about the reality it creates for you. And this is the reality that it's created for them, even if it's over the next two to three years. that's it. It's, of course there's paths where he,

oh, he continues to improve and the situation is better and everything, but that's, you're not kind of getting any surplus out of that. And I've tried to. It is very hard to extricate surplus

out of that contract. And that is a good way to put it. That's kind of where I'm at with it. It's like, I understand. You want competence. And we talk about paying for competence. And there's going to be a premium for that.

But I don't know. It's, they already maxed out last year. Like they coached their ass. is off. They did what they could. I mean, they had a great year. It was really fun to watch that team and we commended them for that. But it always felt like to me that was like they used Joe. And the idea that I'm some Giants hater now is fucking hilarious to me. I know, right? I know. Coach of the year, right? He was your coach of the year? Yes. We had, we're talking about like week three when

no one, no one else knew the Giants existed. We're do a wild card running back breakdowns or a wildcat breakdowns of their offense. Like, yeah, yeah, exactly from, from October. But that's what's just that's kind of where I'm at with it. I think you nailed every avenue with it because that's their point their pivot points have just been nullified. Like they just kind of wiped out a whole bunch of them from it. And yeah, it's like, oh yeah, in a couple years they're not, okay, in a couple years, maybe they'll want to move on to find a different guy. Like his dead cap is still 18 million in year three. Like, it's not like it's just like, oh yeah, that's still significant. Like, that's still a chunk of your cap. And that's absolutely is. And this idea that, well, we can move on after two years,

the first, I don't want the first thought I have after signing a quarterback. to extension to be what I can move on from him. Right. Like, and Gino and Daniel Jones are, Gino Smith are going to be compared to each other because of the contracts and everything what happened to signing. Gino's, we know what Gino is in his young, young mid-30s, you know, like he's. Half. They can move on this year.

They could pick a quarterback at five this year if they want to. They bridged it perfect, too. And it's like, and actually, I've thought about that too, not to like, dovetel us into a Gino discussion in Ciox, but it's, if I'm going to, is that is the, with his contract to say they do draft a rookie this year, a rookie quarterback this year. it's when those other guys get expensive, you still have that rookie deal now to work with as well. Oh, man,

it's just they timed it up really well. And maybe the Giants do that. Maybe in 2025, they can move up and draft a guy. The 18 million in dead money or the 14 million of Daniel Jones is dead money, you can take that on a little bit easier because you're working off of a rookie quarterback contract. This could absolutely work that workout.

I don't think it's some death knell. I don't think it's some disaster. I have so much faith in that coaching staff and the guys in sharp. in charge there right now. I understand that they felt painted into a corner a little bit, but I just, I think that it's important to acknowledge the realities of this. Daniel, this is the stat that I was going to tweet out yesterday and I didn't because I just was asking for trouble, okay?

This is not the end all be all stats wise, but I think it's an important bit of context. Daniel Jones last year, according to pro football focus, had eight big time throws. Eight, okay? His big time throw rate. So the amount of big time, and those are defined as like tight window, often down the field throws. They are subjective, but yeah, they are subjective, but over time, a good player is going to have a lot of them.

You know it when you see it. Okay. Yeah. It's a Supreme Court rolling. Daniel, Daniel Jones is big time throw rate last season among quarterbacks who took at least 20% of their team snaps. They're 41 of those quarterbacks. He finished 40th.

Matt Ryan was the only quarterback who was lower than him. He had eight of those last season. Gino Smith had 35. Yeah. So when we're asking what this guy is within the context of his offense, even, I think that there's a large gap between those players. Derek Carr had 21. Daniel Jones had eight.

So what was he asked to be? And even if you're projecting some growth, and that's totally fair, if they get better weapons and we're going to talk about some guys who might be on the move this year and some teams that could really bulk up positions like receiver, that can happen. And maybe you see some growth from him, but there's just not a lot of. You have to think about where the value is coming from. Your quarterback either has to be a win because of guy if he's expensive. or a win with guy if he's cheap.

If somewhere in the middle is just a really, really hard thing to navigate. And even in, I think the Ryan Tannahole one is another good example. And the reason I don't throw that out at the beginning is because they committed to Tantan Hill after they already had the pieces. Yeah. You know, like that team was already in place. And that was a flyer. When they decided to give him that contract, which looks a lot like this Daniel Jones contract. Yeah.

But I just. But again, but again, the Tana Hill was a, like, a ton of people. It's like a legit. top 10 quarterback season from the last decade was that Tannan Hill season, not league average. That's what you're paying. So that was the difference. It was like, holy shit, we hit something here, not like, oh, we might have something. This is the best of a bad bunch.

Even, and you're talking about it. All right. So let's do it. Let's go back to those stats, okay? That big time throw rate, just like that has one number. Ryan Tanna, who was third in the NFL that season at big time throw rate in 2019. Third. Not stuck.

He's standing in there making monster throw. Rose. It's over and over again. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, he's, Tanaill's strength is he's willing to hang in there and rip some digs. So it's just another,

it's one example. But, but I mean, the big game said Daniel Jones, the one that comes back to me is the late season Vikings game, or both of them, really. And I can tell you,

and I watched it. And he had a positive game as a, especially as a scrambler and he took advantage of it. We made a big point of that. But like throwing wise and I, I had some people tweet at me. I'm like, man, Daniel Jones really put together some throws in that game.

it's like a bunch of wide open over rounds over and over and over. And I'm not trying to be mean here. It's like, but I like that's not a super impressive thing when the guy's running scot-free. And that's more of a detriment to what the Vikings defense was putting out there and also a positive in Mike Kafka's cap to like have all these guys running wide open over and over and over. So that's the thing. It's like, yes, he made the throws. He did the job. But he better like he better make those throws or otherwise you're talking about like, oh my God, bench this guy.

So that's where it's like even his really big. games or positive games. It wasn't like as impressive as, say, maybe some other, you know, positive games that quarterbacks have. And that's, I know that sounds like, you know, it's all subjective and everything, but it's kind of like you see it. The big time throw rate is a great example, but also just, you know, this is the eye test thing.

When you look at the scheme of that these teams are running, the degree of difficulty of those throws wasn't very high. People ask, what would you have done? If you're Josh, Shane, what you have done. My first thought is let him test the market. Yeah. You know, just let him go out and test the market and see what's available because I I just don't think any team is willing to pay him what you are going to pay him.

He is more valuable to you than he is to anyone else because part of the motivation and obligation to give him this sort of deal is you want him, you want to reward him. You want to do it for the culture and you want to build that. And I understand that. And I think that's right. And I guess maybe the end game of that is do you get him for a few million less every year if he goes out on the open market and that's what a team dictates his market is? I would argue that it would probably be a lot less than what he ended up getting because I don't know how many teams are willing to give him that money.

But even if it's $7 million a year left, less, the answer is how much difference is that really make? Probably not a lot. You're between a rock and a hard place because of what you did last season. And I think it's important to acknowledge that. But I also think it's important to acknowledge the new reality that this creates for you, even if it's not something that's going to sink you. And even if it's only a couple of years and it's a stepping zone to something else. That's it. Yep.

it's not like you have to nuke the team or anything, but it's just, it's, you're turning up the difficulty of your team building. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And I still have a lot of hopes for what they're going to do. I'm so very interesting what they're going to do. And we're going to get into that right now with some of their options. Okay. Talk about some veterans here that might, I was way longer than I expected it to be. But I had to get some of their shit off my chest. I was fine with that. That was great. All right. Half hour, rip it off. Let's get into some of these guys here. First guy I wanted to throw out. Somebody who it's been pretty open that he was going to be available on the open market. This is a rebuilding team. You got a new GM there, a new regime, is DeAndre Hopkins.

Okay. Understand some of the concerns about DeAndre Hopkins on the wrong side of 30 coming off a PED suspension. PED suspension. He was hurt in 2021. He's going to be 31 by the time this season starts. I still think he is attractive for a lot of reasons. when you consider the dearth of receivers even near his tier that are available this offseason, whether it be in the free agent class, on the trade market, or in the draft.

You go back to last season, Tyree Kill, Devante Adams, A.J. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Chris Oliva, Drake, London. We got six or seven guys who are needle-moving players at the position available through multiple avenues. That is not the case this year. And that is why DeAndre Hopkins suddenly becomes very interesting to me if I'm certain teams with a needed receiver. I might know a couple. Yeah. One's right down the street. Yeah,

when Hopkins 2 is, and we talked about him on the bear show a couple weeks ago, I was just called the bear show. But it's the, it's that his game actually kind of sort of is aging well. He was still very, very productive. He never tested well coming out of the combat.

It's actually one of the lowest scores of everything. He's such an outlier in so many ways. So his game is actually aged okay and it still has. Like last year he's super, super productive. as I stalled trying to find his first down per route rate because I know it's pretty high. But honestly, he's not a guy that's like, oh, man, this guy used to run a 4-3-8 and he's around a 4-6 now and I don't know if he can win that way.

He's a low post threat. He boxes you out and he wins and he's a his hand-eyed coordination. This is the same guy that had like 150 targets and didn't have a drop. This is that, that doesn't go away and it hasn't gone away. It's very expensive. But like you said, if this guy is available. But is it that expensive? No.

It's $19 million in base salary. Even if he wants a new contract. Even if he wants a new deal. Let's say it's three years 75, right? Just like, let's just throw that out there. And you can keep the cap hits relatively small in years one and two of doing that. And you just kind of pump it up in year three. That's palatable to me if the draft compensation is correct.

So the second round pick is kind of what's been thrown out there. If I'm the Bears and I can sign him to have three years, $75 million, the money's got to go somewhere. It has to. The cap room has to go somewhere. You don't hang a banner for most cap room. You don't. So it's got to go somewhere. And if I'm if I'm Chicago, I would at least, and we'll see what happens with all the other trades.

But wouldn't you at least call and say, do you want the 54th pick for DeAndre Hopkins? Have to. And let's say, okay, now, well, is that really the receiver room you want? It's Darno Mooney and Chase Claypool and DeAndre Hopkins. Chase Cleopold is a free agent next year. Darno Mooney is a free agent next year. If you somehow have multiple extra first round picks and you want to go up and get a Marvin Harrison, Jr., you can let one of those guys walk.

Like, nothing is going to preclude you from really building the receiver room that you want. And a group of Chase Claypool, Darno Mooney, and DeAndre Hopkins, I think is interesting. I like that. That works. There's some basketball line up with that lineup, or with that receiving room. I'll say, okay, finally found the first down per route stat I was trying to find. He had, he ranked 19th amongst all receivers and tight ends in first downs per route. The guy he was just behind in 18th was A.J. Brown.

He was just above Scary Terry, just above Kyle Pitts, just above Devante Smith, Garrett Wilson, Chris Godwin, like some real, real names. He had a better first down per route run this year than Jacoby Myers just above him. And I love Jacobi Myers. But just to show, this guy is still still super productive. You're paying for, even if you don't think he's that elite top four guy. he's still a top 12 receiver. You don't find those guys unless you're really spending some capital on them,

either draft or free agency money. And so, I mean, this just makes sense to me for a team that really, if needs an X, needs our number one dude and ace, I mean, the Bears make a ton of sense. But like any team could use a guy like him, if the financials make sense. Because that is what he is. He's still going to be a guy that I think the Bears example is great because,

again, we talked about in the show, it kicks everybody else down as well. He's your true number one. There's no questions about it. You're not going like, well, we designed this play for this guy. It's like, he's your number one option. Boom, boom, boom. Everybody now, Claypool could be a two, you know, Mooney could be a three or vice versa.

Everybody else gets knocked down a peg and what their role is. And that has a lot of value, even when the ball's not going his way. It makes everyone else's jobs easier. That's the boost effect that you pay for stars. And he still is a star. All right. The other team that I think the Giants are another team that is worth mentioning. Anytime we're talking about receivers and financial flexibility, the Giants should

be in there. But the one I think even makes more sense when you look at the amount of cap space that they have and the glaring need that they have and a certain coach's affinity for this player that he has mentioned multiple times is New England. Yeah, Patriots. Right. Okay. So they have $32 million in cap space. I'm sure they can free up a little bit more here and there. They have, if I'm New England, you have the extra third from the Matt Corral trade, which is glorious. I guess that's all they have because they traded Devonte. Miami is getting their third round pick. So they only have one third rounder this

year. So I guess that's worth considering, but they also have an extra, they have a fourth round compensatory pick. Scalta, here's the three we have from Carolina and the fourth round compensatory pick. We want DeAndre Hopkins. Just call. Just, just, just see.

I think that is the other team I keep coming back with. Yeah. I think that's a great one. I mean, yeah, I'm just trying to think what financials-wise. like, you know, because obviously like the Ravens and the, and the Cowboys need guys, but it's like, you know, financial wise, that doesn't work. It seems like Cowboys don't really have it to take a swing at that position based on the amount of resources. They have the drums into it.

I, so speaking of the Cowboys, though, next guy I want to talk about here, Jalen Ramsey, apparently is, you know, understandable with where the Rams are at, you know, they are at crossroads. I think that you kind of have to put everyone on the table. Leonard Floyd is unlikely to be back. They released Bobby Wagner. You know, they're turning a page here. Jalen Ramsey is somebody that by all accounts could be available through trade. He's still only 28 years old.

He'll be 29 when the season begins. He's making $17 million this year, $14 million next year in base salary with a small roster bonus. Rams only save $5.6 against the cap if they trade him, but it's $17 million in cash. It's getting something back. Yeah. And then you see some sort of resources. So I don't know what it would take to tempt them. Yeah.

But I know that there are some teams out. there that have some financial flexibility and a hole at corner. So I think that they should be making some phone calls. Which teams would potentially make sense for you with Jalen Ramsey? I feel like the easiest one is the Lions just because of the connection with Brad Holmes. Easy one. Need a corner familiarity.

I mean, there's so much like there. And even I want to talk about Jaylon Ramsey, the player too. I've always been of the thought that he is going to another guy that's going to age well because I think he'll be a dynamic safety once it's all said done. Like I think he's on the Charles Woodson path. Like I really think that's what he is as a player. He got great as a safety when he's even coming out Florida State. But yeah, slot outside, whatever you want to put it, he's still a good player.

He had some up and down moments. But when he locked in the last like five-ish weeks last year, when after he went through the mid-season slide, the entire Rams did where he kind of was like, oh, I'm going to let myself get burned by Chris Oliva. Who cares? At the end of the season, he locked back in. It's like, oh, yeah. You're really, you're really good.

You are a really good football player. But the Lions is the one that comes to my mind. That's like the easy, easy path. We did not get to talk about this yesterday because we got derailed or not derailed. It was a fun conversation, but we talked about the quarterbacks the whole time. We were going to talk about some big questions and wild cards we had coming into free agency. And one of mine is, what is the Lions big move? Like if you think that you're a playoff team this year and you think that with a couple

tweaks here and there, you can really do something, what is their big move on defense? Because they've been at the bottom of the league and defensive spending over the last couple years. They've built it at their own pace. I respect it. What is the move? Is this it? Could you go out and get a Jalen Ramsey for the second round pick that you got in the T.J. Hawkinson trade?

I think that's right. Maybe it takes more than that, but you start with that as kind of a thought where it's like, okay. You know, we have in this year's draft, we have 49 and 56 after the maneuvering that went out with the Hawkinson trade. Could one of those get you Jalen Ramsey? Could one of those in some change get you Jalen Ramsey? I mean, I think these are the sort of things that I'd be turning over if I were Brad Holmes and I was looking for whatever that big splash feels like. And especially the team, I'm just going to focus on the lines.

I think that it just makes so much sense is they also get to keep their first rounders because that matters too because they eject even more life into that defense. I don't think this offense needs too much. I mean, maybe a quarterback of the future, but that's a whole different discussion. But also like as far as weapons, as far as offense align, you know, they don't really need of true, true ace anywhere at one of those positions. You know, if they can need help, but run it back tight end, y'all, y'all, but whatever.

I would say, but they need stuff on defense. So if you keep those picks, inject Jalen Ramsey into that defense. And I'll say this draft class for corners, there are some interesting corners in the first round, but first round kind of talents. I'd say, you know, half dozen, give or take, four or five, six. But there's not really that one dude that you're like, oh, I'm taking this guy top 10.

Yeah, not they have two first rounders, but I'm just saying not that one guy that's a true. Gonzalez from Oregon is interesting. Guess what? You can do both. They need multiple corners. You can do both. So now you can get a front seven guy with your number five pick and then with your second pick. Then you inject another DB because there's a lot of DBs. Like I said, there's corners, but maybe not that one, one dude. Now you have two guys right there. Boom. That position becomes a strength. What we talk about DBs is a weak link kind of thing. You're going through trying to build up the whole room. So I think that's just such a clear path that just makes a ton of sense, especially if they can hold on to some first rounders. So a couple other teams I think are interesting. I think Dallas is interesting because they have a clear need.

The team that should originally drafted them back in 2006. You think Jerry wouldn't love that a way to kind of a tone for that? Okay. So speaking of in a funny sliding doors moment, it would probably require them cutting a Zique as opposed to June 1st cut in order for Jalen Ramsey, who might want a contract extension as part of this. Understandably so, get some guaranteed money on there. But that could allow you potentially to pump you.

down the number in year one. They'll let more teams kind of be in in the mix here. So they would probably have to do that. They would have to most likely trade Tyron Smith, which we are going to get to later in this show, free up some money. And they're going to restructure DAC's contract. That is a $49 million cap it this year. So they're going to need to borrow from the bank of DAC to make some of these moves.

But I think that move makes more sense than spending more resources at receiver. When you consider that they've already taken a couple swings there and Mike McCarthy talking about how he wants to run the ball and he dreams about it in his sleep. So. It's just taking the reins back to pound the rock, apparently, even though this guy, like, even in Green Bay, they ended up being a spread, slant flat offense. So, yeah, let's see how this ends up with Dak too. Good stuff.

Go for it, man. A couple others. Doesn't this feel like a Patriots move? We talked about it on the Mistakes Show where they go out and they get these guys for one, two years. Yeah. You take a flyer on it. They have a need there.

They have the financial flexibility. So that's a team. And then the one that I also, if you look at needs, money, what about the Raiders? Oh, yeah, because they need DBs. They need a lot of defensive help, actually. No, that one makes a ton of sense. They've got a bunch of cap space. Yeah.

So those, and Atlanta, I think, makes sense with needs and money. I don't think on a football level, it makes sense. I don't think they do it. No. I think they're just kind of squat on everything. No, we're going to, we're going to use what we have. We don't need any other external sources anywhere. All right.

Speaking of the NFC South, next one here. Let's say A buck's receiver. That's the way that I'm framing it. A Buccaneers receiver combined Mike Evans and Chris Godwin are making $47 million against the game of the share. Okay. A cool $47 million. And they also have Russell Gage, by the way. Yeah, they signed him.

Russell Gage. So those three combined are making $60 million against the cap this year. Man, you really felt it this year, too. Those three guys, okay? Based on what we typically do and how we would typically think about these moves, it would be Evans, right? He's going to be a free agent after this season. He's 30 years old.

So I think a lot of things would point you to him being the more likely trade candidate, but he's an icon. Like he is beloved down there. He's a potential Hall of Fame player. I think that is a potentially complicated factor. So is it more likely that Godwin is the one that could get moved? He's got a $20 million-based salary. So you're eating very little dead money if you end up doing this.

If Godwin is traded, you're eating $15 million in dead money. Yep. Okay. So you don't only save an eight against the cap. I guess that's not as much as I thought it was going to be. But they need every penny that you get. Yeah. With Evans, with Evans, with Evans, it's even less.

Yeah, it's not too much. With Evans, it's still, it's 21 million, but you're saving the 13 million in cash. So Godwin honestly seems like financially the one that might make them, might make the most sense. Man, I'd be calling. I love Chris Godwin. So where does he make sense? Because the other guys, the other teams were something about outside receivers. So I had a harder, and Evans, I think fits a lot of the same.

teams as Hopkins. Like if we're talking about which teams could use somebody like that, I would throw out the exact same list. Godwin's a little bit different. I'm curious who you would say. Oh, man. That rate, I mean, this is all dependent on, on Lamar coming back, but the Ravens make a lot sense to me, especially if Bateman comes back healthy.

Yeah, that's a good one. Like Bateman, Godwin, and Andrews is a really fun trio of pass catchers and especially kind of synergy. But yeah, that's the one that immediately comes to mind. After that, you know, kind of a sneaky team here. I don't know if they can or I don't know if they want to is the Seahawks. That was the one I was thinking about too. They need a slot guy.

They need a power slot. It feels ambitious. That's like a like we're going for it this year kind of move and not kind of what they're maybe trying to build. It's so funny that I had the same idea. Because I love that trio. Oh my God. DK lock it and God would be fit.

It makes a lot of sense. With the tight ends. Oh yeah. That would be a really fun offense. Yeah. Those are two that kind of come to my mind. Honestly, honestly,

this is the guy that they might not, but the giant should swing at it. Because this is a, just a solid, good player. Yeah. And,

and, you know, good team guy. Rock solid dude. You know when rock solid dude. He's going to block his ass off. That's why I'd be surprised if he got trading. Just because, I mean,

You want these type of guys in your offense, in your locker room. And I was going to say this about Ramsey. There's a chance you call and offer a second round pick for Jaylon Ramsey and the Rams tell you go to hell. But that's why this is fun. Because it's all wild speculation. You know what teams are thinking? They might hate a guy and just go, yeah, yeah, get them off my hands. You never know.

All right. So speaking of receivers. Yeah. What do we think about Brandon Cooks? Man, that contract was, it's shocking every time I look at it. I don't know. I would not be one of the team that. wants to trade for Randy Cooks, if I'm being honest.

I know he is the likely trade candidate. You're on a hook for what, 18 million this year? Yeah, there's some wiggle room. 18 million in base salary. And there's some wiggle room if the Texans, you know, like, hey, you know, talking with the Texans, they're kind of, I feel like there should be a quasi-fire sale some of these vets, which we'll get to with another player. See, I disagree with that.

I, I'm not, I disagree with that because I think he means more to you this season than he might mean to another team for two reasons. Houston has nothing but money. I know. They have tons of cap space. They have $40 million in space this year. And that is with those two guys taking up $60 million in cap room. That's ridiculous.

We talk all the time about this idea of quarterbacks being failed versus failing. If you're going to draft the guy with the second overall pick and he's going to play this season, don't you want Brandon Cooks and Laramie Tunsell on the team, even if they're really expensive? That's the way that I would think about it. Yes, yes. But the thing that is kind of like in my brain now is all the kind of rumors trickling out that. It's like Texas might not be leading towards a quarterback in the draft, which of course, we're in Smok and Mirror season. It would be the best.

I get it. I mean, you have two first round pick next year if you want to kick it down the road again? I was going to say, fine. The Houston kick the canters. That's what they, that's what this franchise has become. They just want to keep kicking the can, never make a decision. Hey, clock never starts for us. Let's just keep kicking the can down the road.

But that's where I'm coming at, where him and then Tunsel will talk about in a second, but those guys getting traded potentially because of that, where you just build as many assets that we can grab our guy, you know, that we want, even though these guys are, you know, good players. Brandon Cook is still a good player. But that's, I don't know. That's for him. It's also, if they do want to draft a guy, then yes, I would want to keep them because that's a target. that's a guy that we can design plays for.

That's a guy that we can actually like throw the ball in tight situations in good situations or situations that are advantageous for our young quarterback. So that's where I'm coming to. I think you hunt for other weapons. And if you want to move on after this year, that's fine. But if I was dropping a rookie quarterback into that situation and I was moving on from Brandon Cooks and the guy will talk about in a second, I just don't get that. I just want to give that guy the best chance to succeed.

And you can afford both of those guys this year. Yeah, they can. It's a ton of money. If a team asked you to eat some of the salary and convert it to bonus and then like, hey, we'll juice up the pick, then I'll start really listening. At a certain point, though, don't you have enough draft picks? Like, the draft picks have to become players. Like, let's say that they're, I guess, dude, I agree. I guess that their picks this year, I guess if they're picks this year and you're going to use them on players to kind of build up your infrastructure.

Yes. I would just have having a left tackle and a primary number one receiver, even if it's not. of one you're super excited about, I think it's just a good position to put a young quarterback in if you're going to draft one. So it's hard for me. And that's why let's transition that to a Larry Mutansel conversation. Yeah. So in the hypothetical world where he does get traded, where do you think makes sense?

Oh, my goodness. You're Chicago Bears. Oh, my God. I would lose my mind. Right. On an all pro tackle and his prime. That'd be pretty sweet. You know.

Like legit all pro tackle. It doesn't miss time. It doesn't miss time. I mean, all those guys. But that's the one that comes to mind. Like the Titans, but the Titans are not at that stage,

you know, to me, because I feel like the Bears looking like they have their quarterback. That makes a lot more sense. The Titans have so many questions to answer about every position. So it's like why trade for a guy like that when we have other questions to answer? So that's the team that comes in my mind, especially with the cap room that they have.

18 million and base salary this year. That's it. That's it. And you need to give him an extension, right? Which would be more than willing to do. Yes, absolutely, because it's hard to acquire players like this. It's very, very hard to car players like this. And that's why I find the Texans, I just don't really get it.

Like, I know his cap number is astronomical this year, but you've already paid most of the money. Yeah. I mean, you're saving $18 million in cash if you trade him. He's a 29-year-old all pro left tackle. No, no, I would want to keep him. If I were to Texans, I'd be like, no, we're, this is a building. block. We're going to have him for the next three, four years guaranteed while we build up

whatever we want with the quarterback. But saying if they can't come to terms, it's like, well, we got to get something back for him. You know, and better than a third round comp pick we might get in free agency next year. So that's where I think that's where I'm kind of like at with it. It's like maybe we can get a second or even a first because I think he's generally worth that. I mean, even if you're paying him afterwards because that is a bonafide dude.

Yeah, he's a bonafide dude that I would move a first rounder for him. I really would. Yeah, depending on where the first rounder is, I, I'm, totally fine with that. Yeah. I think that's absolutely okay. Yeah, but I just think he's interesting. I would sniff.

I'd be like, hey, what do you get? You guys like him? Like, hey, are you, how are the, you guys close? You know, let's start talking a little bit. There's no way to know with them. You never know. I don't know what they want. No one does.

It doesn't seem like anybody knows what the Houston kick the canters want. All right. Next guy here at that position that seems like he's a potential trade candidate is Tyron Smith. He's a free agent after this year. And this is a very rare NFL team that has multiple options at tackle. I believe Terrence Steel is a restricted free agent.

They'll be able to bring him back. They obviously drafted Tyler Smith in the first round last year, had to play a chunk of the season that left tackle. So Tyrant Smith is a rare capable, beyond capable tackle, even if he's a little bit older and has entry concerns, that could be available on the trade market. $13.6 million in base salary this year. Very tolerable. Okay.

I mean, there's one team that I just can't get out of my mind as soon as I started thinking about it. Who? the Chiefs. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that would be lovely. So instead of paying Orlando Brown 20, you can give up a second round pick

and paid Tyron Smith 13.6. And I can't remember who reported this, and I'm sorry. Yeah, and I can't remember who reported this and I'm sorry about that, but somebody said that, it might have been Albert Breer, that they wanted like a longer term answer

at the position. They didn't want to keep doing this year by year. And I get that and that's not what Tyron Smith is, but just on a football level, the fact that you can wonderful pay seven million dollars less for tyron smith at left tackle for this year i i would love that as a fit absolutely no that's that's a great great call and speaking which i am really i'm very optimistic on tyler smith so like even a transition plan from tyrant smith like i like it because i i think

tyler smith has shown a lot of flashes of star potential even if people are saying that he holds every play which i think is bullshit it's just there's a thing called a rip move and uh as we've discussed later in the season. But yeah, Tyler Smith, I think is very talented, but Tyrant Smith, um, yeah, if I'm a team that where this makes sense. And I don't think, man, I think you can even get him for less in a second. I really do just because of the injury stuff. Maybe. Maybe. I really do. I think that is a phone call I would absolutely make. Oh, yeah, I absolutely would too. I think that one is, yeah, that one's really interesting. I know. I think that that's what's

really fun about this tackle market this here. It's, you can get creative. There's, there's, there's guys to be had if you, if you do this, right? And he's one of them. Another guy that has reportedly been shopped around a little bit. Mike Silver, who I think wrote this for Valley Sports, mentioned that at the combine. Derek Henry is a name that he had heard. This one's tougher because we have so many free agents at the position. Yes.

And there aren't that many obvious teams. Yeah, there aren't that many obvious. So he's 10 and a half in base salary this year, which is the franchise tag for running a cap number. That's what you'd be doing. So you'd be giving it, you would be trading to give him the tag. The Titans would save about $6 million against the cap.

Not a ton, but they're in this weird transition period, so who knows? I had one team that it doesn't make a ton of sense based on their previous moves, but when you think about the hole they have there and where they're at in their team building process may be relevant. But it was hard for me to come up with that many teams. I'm just like, absolutely, you should trade for $10.5 million of Derek Henry. Who is it? Carolina. Oh, my God.

With that O line? But they just traded Christian McCaffrey. Yeah. They don't have a ton of space, okay? They're in an interesting spot. I believe they'll probably move on from Shaq Thompson. They can make up some money there. Excuse me.

DJ Moore is a $19 million-based salary. I assume they can restructure that if they want to. They can extend Brian Burns, who is at $16 million against the cap. They can free up some money if they want to. But I don't know if they want to spend $10.5 million of that on a running back. Yeah, they probably can't make it. I was going to, the first, the team that always feels like they need a running back. I was going to say the dolphins, but they're way under the cap.

They're way over. I actually, I actually had a dolphin on here that I wanted to mention. But the other team that might as well just throw them out here in every one of these conversations, although I don't think that they would do it is the bears. Yeah. Like no David Montgomery. They've got all the money to spend. You want to have like a true, like, grind it out running back to kind of take something off for your quarterback.

You pair him with Justin Fields. Like, I don't know. What about the line? as like the Jamal Williams replacement. I just feel like it's just too rich. No, no, it's very rich. For what you need out of position, it's just too rich. On a football level, yeah, it's great.

I would absolutely love that. Yeah, that's more just me just football nerd. I wanted to see that with their all line road grading for him. My gut feeling is he's just on the Titans next year. I think so too. They don't save that much by trading him. He's such a rabble guy. You know, I just

that would surprise me. Yeah. And if they go into a weird direction with a quarterback and offense alliance. Like, yeah, at least we can lean on air. Exactly.

Exactly. Andry to eat 25 touches for us. Exactly. All right. Next one here is a team more than, more than an actual player. It feels like some Chargers veteran is not going to be on the team next year. When you just look at the financial realities of the team.

A little murder mystery. I just because, all right. Knives out. Chargers, Chargers veteran defense players. The Chargers. are $21 million over the count.

Okay. In this scenario, usually you'd have some restructure candidates that you'd throw out there, okay? The Chargers' biggest deals on their books right now are Joey Bosa, Kalil Mack, and Keenan Allen, all of whom have base salaries

more than $15 million. Keenan Allen's 31. He has one year left on his deal after this. Kalil Mack is 32. He has one year left on his deal after this. You think they want to keep pushing money from those deals in to future years to save dollars? I don't think so.

J.C. Jackson definitely don't want to start adding that, adding money onto that. And then the next biggest base salary that they have outside of Mike Williams at $12 million is Corey Winsley at 10.5, who's 32 years old. So there aren't that many restructure candidates available for this team right now. And they've said that Keenan Allen's going to be on the team this year. So is it Mac? is it somebody else? It feels like something has to give here. Right.

And Mack's already kind of gotten some rumors. He's a cutter trade candidate. And I do, man, I have one pairing that I'm like really excited to throw it out here. That's with Killow Mac. That's with the Bengals who I don't think are an aggressor like this. But on a football level, it makes sense on a team that's a, I wouldn't say a no-name defense, but it's a sum of parts defense. And then also they bring it a guy like that. I love their defense so much, but just a move that would just turn up the volume just a little bit.

Yeah. And because they have depth, they really do. It's like he doesn't, he can, other people can eat some snaps for him. He can age a little bit better. It makes sense. The Bengals have the six most most cap space. They can eat it. It's a 20, it would be, you know, $23 million cap hit this year, but they can afford it, actually.

And then they can move on from him. Be less than that. Right. This is his base salary, ridiculous. It's 17. 17. I'm sorry. Oh, it makes up the numbers.

Yeah, but $17 million. And well, then it gets out of the roster bonus too, right? That goes on with it. So it all depends on that. But 17 to $23 million somewhere. Oh, it's okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So about 23.

And but if they move on. That's a lot, man. That's a lot. But they can afford it. They can afford it. They can afford it now. If they try to bring back a guy like Von Bell, you know, depending on what they do with their own players, that's as much as I like the idea.

of that that's very hard to imagine. Oh, no. And the Bengals are not that kind of team. Like they are. History has proven that we talk about history lessons. This is one that they are not the team that's going to do that. But that was just one that it made sense financially. And it made sense in my head canon of what I want to see from the 2023 NFL season. And also you got taken to consideration.

Chargers probably wouldn't want to help another contender. You know, if they're, they think they're both in the same kind of window. So I wouldn't really want to help out another team that you might be facing. that was excited about that. Something's got to happen there. Something's going to happen. I don't know what it is, but something has to happen because there aren't that many restructure candidates.

I feel like something surprising could happen. All right. I want to stick with veteran pass rushers because one guy that I just couldn't avoid here, Zedarius Smith. Zedarius Smith has a $9 million-based salary this year, almost no guaranteed money left on his deal. So he's a cut candidate for the Vikings if they wanted to.

but he feels like a guy you could get something for. And at $9 million this year, he tailed off a little bit in the second half of the last season, but he had some real flashes. Yes. Oh my God, he was a monster. So if you need help at your past rushing spots,

he's a guy I'd absolutely call about. Because I think that the fact that he is a cut candidate, what would you have to give up to get him for $9 million of Dariusmith next year? A fourth round pick? Yeah, I was going to say. I mean, call and out an offer. I mean, that's just to see because I just think that he's at $9 million, he could be a rotational pass rusher for you this year. Yeah.

That one makes a ton of sense. It feels like they are. I mean, the Vikings are kind of a weird spot. We did our. Oh, so here, I got it. Who? What if you're the Jags? Okay.

Arden Key is a free agent. Duane Smoot's a free agent. $9 million. Jags are tight, though. Like, as far as capital. wise. Ah, you get there. For Zadari, it's funny because Zadari Smith and Arden Key actually, like a pass

downs have like the same role. Like they're kind of like the nose or the kind of spinner in that, that, that situation. That's a huge up there. And they're so, they'll play guys all over the place. And they need pass rushers. And so they just cut Shack Griffin. So cutting Shack Griffin saves them 13 million against the cap, gives them $8 million in cap space right now.

And that's before doing anything. else. What about the Chiefs? Yeah. That one makes a ton of sense. They got the room for it. You know, that one, oh my God, Chris Jones. This is Darius Smith on the inside.

That'd be a lot of fun. We can list off so many teams. So many. Because that's the thing. But that makes him such a viable candidate because that cap hits not that crazy. And it's very workable. Like, you can get creative with him on a football sense and also in a financial sense. No, that one, I think it's going to happen.

It feels like it is. with the Vikings, but that one's a really interesting one because he's still a very useful player. It also feels like the type of move the Eagles would make. Oh, yeah. Lose Brandon Graham. He's a free agent, just like looking for one more guy to be part of that rotation, even if it's, you know, they're obviously, they're spending money on a ton of different guys, but they always seem to find a couple dollars in the couch cushions here and there. And they can figure out with this, yeah, the snap count wise would be great for them. No, that's a good one too.

All right, a couple interior defensive players that I wanted to mention. Ed Oliver, $10 million in base salary this year. Bills don't have a lot of wiggle room. He's somebody that really never broke out in the way that they wanted him to, and he's hitting free agency next season. Is that somebody that you could go get? Is that somebody worth going to chase? But that was one name just looking at guys who were hitting free agency next year

that popped out to me. Yeah, and Ed Oliver has more, not trying to be mean, but has more name recognition than actual play recognition. I mean, he does. For 10 million bucks, you know, I don't know if you want to extend him. He's still useful. Yeah, but for 10 million bucks in a world where the best interior defensive line are getting 20, it's still not that bad.

He's not, yeah, he's not like worth half of them. Like, he's worth more than that. Yeah. So exactly. And he's disruptive and everything. It can make sense for a team that, that I think has a strength there and he's the cherry on top. Like, I think that would make a ton of sense. I don't know who it is off top of my head.

But yeah, no, that's a very viable one, especially for a team that kind of seems to be retooling as they kind of like pushed a lot of stuff in last year. So, yeah, I don't know. That makes sense. Other interior guys, Zach Seeler from Miami is hitting free agency next year. They have a lot of guys that they have already paid. Yes, they do. Even on their defensive line. Bradley Chubb, Emmanuel Ogba.

Christian Wilkins is going to need an extension, spending big on Tyree Kill. is that somebody that they're just not going to be able to pay and he could be available for that reason. I think he's a really good player and they're really useful players. I like him a lot. I mean, he's one of the guy that just jumps off the screen to me all the time. And the dolphins were wheel and deal.

Like they will. So that's not, that's another interesting one. Yeah, because they, like they say, they have too much talent to pay, which I'll talk about with a different guy in a second.

But that is, that is someone that, yeah, that's the thing. It's just like in, it sounds stupid, or it sounds obvious that it really is. You look for a team has too many good players that they have to pay. You just go, hey, this guy, you're not going to, you're going to get nothing for him next year. Here's a third, you know, is that interest to you?

You need it. You already trade away a lot of picks. You need those picks. So that one makes a lot of sense too. Last one for me. Eric Armstead. Eric Armstead is a $24 million cap hit this year. When is he become a free agent?

Is it next year? After 2024. Okay, yeah, two years, right. Okay. He's 30. They got a lot of expensive players on that team. They would save $16 million against the cap, I believe, if they traded him, which is not an insignificant amount of money. So that's just a guy.

Maybe they have no interest. Their edge depth isn't what it was. They have got, Ebukam is hitting free agency. Charles Meadow who's hitting free agency. They may not want to lose what player in that rotation, but he is not cheap. I mean, that is a big, big cap hit for a guy going into his. 30s. So again, just something that might be sniffing around about. They traded to Forrest Buckner.

Yes, they did him again. So for first rounder, I mean, they did that. And, you know, Sam, um, not Sam Jackson, Drake Jackson had a nice, nice whole year for him. So that, that's a probably, that's a succession plan for them. So that makes sense. Uh, no, that that's a good one too because like you said, guys are about to get paid on that team and they already have some expensive players. They might have to shift some resources, uh, financial resources to the offense pretty soon with some of the other guys are going to have to get paid. too. All right, you had a couple guys. Yeah. Speaking of the Colts, interior defense alignment, I have Grover Stewart. And this is more of, I don't know what the Colts are planning. You know,

I don't know, like, if they really want to, like, all right, we're going to really have a good defense for whatever young quarterback we plop in here. But he's going to be a free agent next year, the last year of a deal. He turns 30 this year, kind of all the warning signs of a potential trade candidate. They'd say about $9 million, not that they're like crazy, you know, with cap stuff, but the new team takes on nine-half million dollar deal, but this is a legit plugger. How many defenses we talked about this year? They're like, man, they do this, this and this,

but man, they just can't stop the run. You know, man, they just need interior help. Grover Stewart is a one man wrecking crew with DeForest Buckner. It's a lot of fun, but just by himself, he eats two blocks every play. And legit is a disruptive force. And really played all pro caliber last year. There was just, there's a ton of interior defense of line talent last year. But man, if you need a plugger in a middle round pick,

and you're kind of like facing like, man, we might have a window here. I think he makes a lot of sense as a trade candidate. It just depends on what the Colts feel about their timeline. But I'd be calling about him and seeing if I can I can throw a pick at them and try and get a really, really useful player that plays a lot of snaps, especially on run downs. They are going to have to. I mean, they really have a choice renegotiate or restructure the Deshaun Watson deal. He has a $46 million-based salary this year.

So you can borrow as much as you want from that, essentially. if they make John Johnson the third of post-June first cut, they'd save about $9 million against the cap, plus the restructuring that has going to have that with Watson. It's from the Browns that I'm calling immediately. It's right. I mean, that's the team that came to my mind. Yeah.

Yeah, that one makes a ton of sense. And as far as really how the Browns are acting, like, Browns are in their window. They think they are anyway. So like this is a guy that's a huge need for them. And I'm sure Jim Schwartz would love them. The other interior defense alignment, man, We're really hitting the sexy positions here.

But this is a tag, a guy that got tagged in Duran Payne from Washington. When he got tagged, what do we talk about? Like, what are you guys doing? Like, what are you planning for? I would call him, be like, can you afford him? I know you want him for another year. He's a fantastic player. He's turning 26, absolute game record.

Another guy that was an all pro candidate for me at times out playing Jonathan Allen, who had a fantastic year as well. If he was a true free agent, didn't get tagged, he would be my number one front seven free agent. even over, Javon Hargrave, who's 30. But I mean,

man, but this might be a similar type of situation, DeForest Buckner. I'm going to refer to that again. He got traded for a first rounder. Might be, that's a little rich,

but I don't know. This is a really good player, but I would see what a smattering of day two picks for a team that seems rudderless as far as what direction they're going. I'll say, hey,

you might only have this guy and you're paying him a lot of money. What does pay him? We'll pay him. And then here's a couple of picks to, like, make up for it. The problem is,

though, do they care? Dude, that's what sucks. They care about a second round pick and a guy who's going to be something in three years based on the amount of urgency with that staff. Their incentives are so warped that that's what sucks. I have a hard time talking about them because I don't understand what they're trying to accomplish. No one does. And I think every team you talk to, no one does.

So that's where it kind of stinks because I feel like he's one. I'd be hitting up because he's a true, true. We talk about needle movers. He is. He's borderline getting to that elite level. That's how he played last year anyways. All right. You had a couple of guys that you wanted to save from their current situation.

situations before we get out of here. Save my boys. Uh, this is anyone that's listened to this show has heard these names several times, but Denzel Mims. Sorry to I yell into the mic there. No, you're good. I was getting hot. Robert, Robert fixes his headphones after he yelled at. Uh, Denzo Mims. Uh, these are all just like, throw a day three pick. See if we can just save something, you know, scrap off the scrap heap. But Denzo Mims from the Jets is one who seems like every week they talk about trading him. And then they're like, no, no, no, we're going to keep him on the roster and making him inactive. So it's like, do you, Jets, do you like him or do you not like him? Like, that's why I can't figure out.

Throw six rounder out of them, see if you can get him. The other one is Albert O. I'm not even going to try his last name from the Denver Broncos, the tight end. I thought it would be a breakout candidate. And they just seemed to hate him for whatever reason. And then when he played, he was, God, he has been banished in the shadow realm. It's unbelievable. I talked to the members from their old staff, you know, that had them before Hackett came in.

And they loved them. They were like, oh, my God, this guy's going to be a star. And that was after I kind of wrote him up. And I was like, oh, man, I feel good about this. And then never heard from him. So I would be, you don't really see a height, weight speed guy like that that has been improving every time he's played. Throw, throw, throw, call him. See what they want.

See like six or out. We talked about how tight ends. It can take a while. And these guys that have the traits can be worth, we worth it. It's interesting. And then the last one, I got to throw it out because he's like the mascot of the show kind of is. Kendrick Bourne. Last year's deal, Matt Patricia,

he was late for a meeting apparently and just like, I hate this guy. And then sure enough, when he played, he was still very useful, very effective. This guy's nothing more than like a super role playing number three. But man, I think for a contender that has a couple of the really nice pieces in the receiver room,

oh my God, I think he'd be just a great fit for anybody because he's just a very, very useful player, chain mover. Love Kendrick Bourne. So somebody saved my boys. Those are Those are my, that's the trios. That's my triplets. Somebody saved those three.

Last thing before we get out of here, just talking about something we were mentioned earlier, the Panthers, they restructured Taylor Moten's deal and freed up another $10 million in space. So there are moves that the Panthers can make to get some money and we'll see what they end up doing with it. Interesting. Panthers are, you're a very, very interesting team this year. I'm very excited to follow them. A lot going on there. There's a lot going on there. There's some smoke.

There's some smoke coming from Carolina. And it's not from their, it's not from their failed team facility in Rock Hill. All right. That is all we have for today. We will be back tomorrow with some more free agency chatter. I can't remember what it is. So I'm not going to say, I'm not going to talk about what I don't know. I had to ask what it was this morning to change my notes.

So I'm pretty pretty prep for the next one. We're doing a show every day. There's a lot coming at you. Just put it on your radar right now. Tomorrow's best fits. Thank you, Biller. Best fits. from Free Agency. That's going to be a following.

I'm excited to dig into that. Just let you guys know. Next week, we're doing live recap shows. Yeah. Every day. Okay. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. We are going to be live breaking down the day that was in free agency.

We've done these over the last two years. I love doing them. Some of my favorite shows that we do all year, just a kind of great way to tap into the moment. And it's like a crazy set of days in free agency. So we're going to be doing that starting next Monday, which is when the league year opens. So be on the lookout for those. I think we're going to do them at 3.30 p.m. Eastern each day is the plan right now. If that changes, I will update you guys.

But come hang out with us. We're really just going to be sitting here ripping off takes as these things happens. Before we know the bonus structure. Yeah, it's great. Come hang out, spend some time with us. We're going to be having a great time. So that is our plan next week. We've got two more shows coming your way this week.

Just a heads up. can listen right now to Prospects to Pros with Dane Bruegler and Andy Staples. That was on your feet on Wednesday. Come back for more draft chatter. And Football GM with Mike Sando and Randy Mueller is available very soon. I believe at noon today. They are back. Excited to have Mike and Randy back in the feed.

So please make sure you go and check that out. For now, that's all we got. We'll be back tomorrow. Talk to you guys soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.