The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Defenses we're most excited to watch in 2021 with Nate Tice & Bears camp visit with Adam Jahns

Episode Date: August 25, 2021

We've gone over the offenses to look out for this season, but what about the defenses? Nate Tice joins Robert as they each bring a list of teams they can't wait to watch take the field in 2021 - from Vic Fangio's horses, to the Packers and more. Then Robert sits down with Adam Jahns at Bears camp to discuss his hometown Chicago Bears, Justin Fields, Matt Nagy and more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today. Our Bears writer Adam Johns is going to be joining us a little bit later as part of our series of team writer visits that we've done during training camp. I was at Bears practice last Thursday. It's very hard to keep track of the timing on all of these.

Really enjoyed talking to Adam. Obviously, it's a team I spend a lot of time worrying about thinking about mulling over. so we got into the weeds on a lot of different stuff. Before that, though, very excited to welcome my good friend Nate Tice. Nate, how are you doing, buddy? I'm doing very well. It was just you two, so it was just you two just gushing for like an hour straight. It was in a coat closet in Hallis Hall.

This is not a joke. We are in the coat closet just tucked away, worrying about when Justin Field should play and how bad the offensive line is and how much time Matt Nagy has. We'll get to all of that. You and I are going to talk about kind of the next, step in some of the shows that we've done over the last couple weeks. We hit some of the new quarterbacks in places that we wanted to see. We hit some of the most intriguing first year play callers that we wanted to talk about.

Sheel and I talked about the offenses because you can't do every single show. So we had to take a little bit of a break. Now we're going to talk about defenses. We did the top 10 offenses with Sheel. I want to just think a little bit different with the defenses. I want to talk about just the units we're most excited to watch, the ones that we are looking forward to the most this year. This could be because they're doing a scheme tweak.

This could be because of the personnel that this team has. It could be a combination of the two. So we're going to try to get to, how many do we have here? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. So 8. We have 8 defenses. A quarter of the league. Which feels pretty good.

Yeah, you know, it's fine. Some will be a little bit more in depth than others. But that's what we're going to do. We're going to get to the defenses that we are most looking forward to watching here in a couple weeks, buddy. We're getting there now. It's August, August 25th. We are in striking distance. Week zero of college.

That's how you know. It's like week zero of college, we're like, oh, yeah, here we go. Now we're getting into it. You remember those days where you could get to school two weeks early, drink every single day and just not even feel it at all? I mean, I used to get there in the middle of August when we had our just awful, awful house. It was on Cliff Drive in East Campus in Columbia, Missouri.

Our floors were so sloped that the floor and the bottom of the wall had like a six-inch gap between them. That's the type of house we lived in. and for two weeks we went out every single night and I just didn't even feel it it was completely possible that was usually when training camp was winding down for us was moving day in which was the middle of August of Madison so it was also it was almost like a tease because you'd be coming home on your we'd all had mopeds and stuff and scooters and you'd be just coming back and I lived on mifflin which is you know for two years which was the mifflin block party which is famous in Madison and I'm

coming home and I just see everyone just couches they're part they're drinking beer on the street like or getting ready to move in they're just all right we'll tailgate our move in basically as they wait for the get to keys and everything and you're just coming back middle of two a day about to go take a nap and you're just like soon just get to those first game so we can go out after that's basically what it was so didn't maybe have as much fun as for those right before orientation week for as you did well as a man who's about to turn 34 years old tomorrow let's just say that those days are long long behind me all right let's get to some of these defenses and let's start with a team that you and I, I think, are both really excited about.

And that's the New York Giants. Maybe a little bit surprising to be on this list with a lot of other defenses that were probably in or around the top 10 last year. But I think both of us believe that Patrick Graham is a really promising defensive coach. They finished 17th and weighted defensive DVOA last year and just did so many really interesting things, notable things. Obviously that Seattle game sticks out where they were just playing a bunch of wonky, two high coverages and really messing with Russ's head, really getting after him in a lot of different ways. That's the game that jumps out. But I think if you look at a lot of the other aspects of this defense, it aligns with some of the other creative forward thinking philosophies and ideologies that we've seen from other defenses, right? So if you look at carries into boxes of six or fewer defenders, which is a big storyline last year with all.

all the two high that the Rams are playing, everything else, and the Fangio ideas. If you look at the teams in rankings for carries into those boxes, the Broncos were number one, the Rams were number two, and the Giants were number three. They had 230 carries into boxes of six or fewer defenders, more than half of the running plays against them last season.

And if you look at the body types they have, it makes total sense. So this is a team that is playing with lighter boxes. It's trying to steal gaps back. They have a bunch of body controllers on their front. They're playing a bunch of coverage behind it, a lot of different mixtures. I just think that the underlying ideas that permeated this defense last year are really encouraging and interesting. And now their personnel is better.

They've gotten some more guys on the back end. They have Adory Jackson. They are getting Xavier McKinney the entire year. So what that looks like, these ideas grafted onto better players, that's why this team is at the top of the list for me. And what you're talking about too is like those bodies up front, it's running into those lighter boxes as opposed to what the Rams did or, you know, they're running more covered two too high as opposed to, you know, the quarters are cover six that, you know, Rams and the Fangio, which is so it's kind of like it's fun to see like a different too high defense. They let the league and cover two snaps last year, the Giants. Yeah. And that's what we talked about a month or two ago and we're talking about the varied looks from it.

They're also, you know, splitting the guy, the mics going all way back. You know, just how they just kind of just throw, you know, little different flavors on it. And up front, it's like with the bucks where the bucks were rolling in early 2000s running cover two, it was like, you know, you picture Warren Sapp and all that. They're just shooting gaps. They rush with four and they just shot the gaps. And Derek Brooks doing what he's doing, John Lynch in the back and Rondea Barber making plays. But it's this variation of cover two is like they're comfortable dropping eight into coverage and mucking up any quick game throws. And because they have such big bodies up front that as opposed to like stealing a gap in a half, it's like, no, they're truly.

too gaping. Yeah, they can because they can. And it's as opposed to, hey, rush him with four, running games and everything. They are comfortable running those either three guys or four with big bodies and just, and I'm going to talk about a different team later that this has been their philosophy for 20 years, spoilers, is that they push the pocket onto the quarterback, make them feel uncomfortable. And then also just make it tight windows.

And that's why that Seattle game stuck out is because Russ, that's not Russ's favorite thing. He wants you to blitz him. He wants you to create chaos because then he creates chaos. because then he creates chaos on top of that if they're going deep or scrambling, but if you just push the pocket and don't break contained and just make it uncomfortable for quarterbacks, it's not a lot of guys are really comfortable throwing

from that launch point. And that's their philosophy. And then a couple blitzes, you know, they throw a couple little things in, you know, some creative stuff. But it's cool seeing these different flavors

or zone coverage kind of coming back throughout the league after we've seen nothing but man and covered three for a few years. But it's nice to see this coming back and just different flavors of it. And yeah, it's an exciting, and it's an exciting defense. And if you want to play with the three down front like they do, either in the three, four, or the tight mint stuff that they want to do where they drop one of the ends,

that's how they're going to win is winning up front with Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams just kind of crushing that pocket, play after play after play. And it'll wear down offenses over a long game. They lose Dalvin Tomlinson, which is notable, but you still have, like you mentioned, Williams and Lawrence can play that way. And so I think that they use Williams. I mean, he split his snaps essentially between the edge and inside last year. They're going to move him around.

He is the most important player on that front. They're going to move him around a ton. But I think with BJ Hill, Lawrence, and Williams, you still have those guys that can eat up bodies. And it's funny, this team really wanted Leonard Floyd last year in free agency. They didn't get him. They draft his iso Jolari in the second round this year, who is essentially like Leonard Floyd. The same person. So Leonard Floyd is, and you look at them, you'd say, well, that's,

That's not true. You know, they both went to Georgia. That's where it stops. Leonard Floyd's 6-6. Azizzo Gilari is 6-2. Azizzo Gilari has 34.5-inch arms. His arms are longer than Leonard Floyd's. So he's three and a half inches shorter, but he's longer than Leonard Floyd is.

And so using him on some of those twists, allowing him to kind of, we just imagine in your mind, those plays where Leonard Floyd was catching Russell Wilson on some of those stunts. that is Aziz Ojolari, put your arms out, man. Just give the quarterback a hug because we'll send him to you. I would imagine we're going to see a lot of that different front mechanic stuff with the players and the types of players this team has.

Yes. It's going to be fun. And that's the thing. It's like we're talking about the front, talking about all these games. And they also have awesome players like James Bradbury at Corner. That ties it all together, right? Yes.

Yes. Him, like just him, like just because he's basically closing off a whole side. And then like the safety that's over to top, if they are in cover two, doesn't have to cheat as much over the top unless Russell Wilson wants to make a god to your throw like we've talked about before up the sideline. But that's what having him high lowing that, that takes away a whole. It just makes it really, really hard because the soft spots in cover two are the whole shots and then the dig area, the seam dig area. That's the soft spots in cover two.

If you have a corner that can take away the whole shot and then now it's really just three spots or a checkdown, that quarterback has to find spots. it's hard to do that 20 throws a game. You can maybe do a four or five, but that's what a guy like Bradbury does. It just unlocks that kind of stuff. You can run anything you want with a guy like him. And I'll be curious. So last year again,

they led the league in cover two snaps. I think they were fifth in cover three snaps. Really zone heavy team. If you look at it, they played man on 32.4% of their third downs last year's 28th in the NFL. Patrick Graham does not want to do that. Even if he's willing to be a little bit more flexible,

he literally came out earlier in the summer and said, in this league you have to play man coverage on third down and in the red zone. And now with Adory Jackson, with Xavier McKinney the whole year, now let's just imagine it. You go in nickel, you bring Logan Ryan down into the slot. You bring McKinney and then Peppers as your safeties on those plays. And now you have Adory Jackson and James Bradbury at one side. You can play man coverage now. Yeah.

This is not a team with Isaac Yadam and whoever else is their second quarter anymore. I don't know if Adory Jackson is a $13 million player, but I do know that as your second second corner, he's better than what they had a year ago. And now you get potentially 16 games out of Xavier McKinney. I just think it's a group that could take a big, big step this year. Yeah. If a Dory doesn't have to live in man, that's what's nice about playing Zout. He doesn't have to live in it like a guy if he was a corner for the Ravens who has to play it 90% of the time. Yes. He just has to do it. Just do it a couple times. And we don't have to let's just a little bit, just a little bit of everything.

It's old school defense philosophy. It's just a little bit of everything. And it's kind of cool to see it in 2021. All right. Who's your first team? Okay. My first team, if I can pull up my notes. My first team is the Green Bay Packers.

And I think we were both wanted to talk about them. Absolutely. And with them, it's, I was speaking a friend of ours, Justice Mosquita. He runs the Acme Packer, writes for Acme Packing Company. It's a Packers blog, Spination blog. And I just kind of wanted to be like, hey, are they kind of doing anything crazy here? because they're playing a bunch of backups. So you're trying to look scheme-wise.

Okay, is there anything a little different than what I, of course, there's going to be something different compared to what just happened the last few years in the Packers defense. But it's, they really, really want to get the safeties involved. And I mean, that makes a ton of sense from coming from the Rams.

Also, when you have those safeties. I was just about to say also makes a ton of sense when you have those two freaks at safety like they do. And Adrian Amos and our guy, Darnell Savage, you know, got to keep the street going.

Got to mention him another. I went out a different podcast. And an offense of fantasy podcast, and I got to mention Darnell Savage on it. I was Hayden Winks and Josh Norris. I was so proud of myself. Guess who I was standing next to today? Who?

Your boy, number 15 on the Vikings. He was right there. He was in, I was in his presence today, the vibe. How was it? It was great. Did he bring the vibe? Did he bring the vibe?

He brought the vibe. Apparently Zimmer's been saying stuff about him after games, like calling him out in, in press conferences and a good, and for Mike Zimmer to do that, Mike Zimmer to talk about our fifth round rookie offensive players. Your guy is trending in the right direction, my friend. That's great. I know I, he had got the kick return and had a cool little sky cam view on the,

on the TV copy. And I had about like seven people tag me like a second after it happened. I was just like, oh, great. I'm going to know every one of his touches throughout this whole entire season. All right. Let's get back to your other guy here. How do you think that they're going to use those safeties in Green Bay? Well, and just one thing is when you're, we've mentioned before, if you're going to play in that quarter's defense, the safeties have to be involved in the run.

That's how you get away with playing six in the box, six or less in a box, I should say. And that's how you get away with it. That's how you put, they're two way guys now. They have to play up and back, playing the pass and the run, play action, all that fun stuff. And when you have two studs, like legit top 10 guys, top eight, top seven, really, top eight. And Darno Savage, Adrian Amos is that, okay. Let's get them involved. It's just like unlocking these guys.

Let's let playmakers make place. And not only that is they're bringing a lot of the one of these pressures that the Rams love, just that single linebacker up the A or B gap, drop one of the ends. They love, they're doing that a little bit. And it's really kind of, Orrin Berks has had a couple of nice preseason blitzes off of that. Like he can, he can bring his real long. He's, he's been a fun backup to watch. But when you got guys like Kenny Clark, the Smith brothers.

And then also, I always say brothers, but I'm just going to call him the Smith cousins. And but also emerging guy in Roshan Gary who really came on at the end of last year, you only can rush for or just bring the one one dog pressure. They're just trying to create edginess in their past rush. Just edginess, edginess, edginess. And how they do it, games, the gap and a half in the run game, twists, bring the single linebacker, just a couple little safety blitzes, just to kind of really get those guys involved because they're both plus guys in that,

in that type of scheme and type of blitzing. And they've had plenty of experience in the last couple of years. So I really do think it's just going to be a really fun dynamic defense, especially with the talent they have. I think whatever you run, they're going to unlock some guys. But I think this type of defense and really just highlighting star players, I think they're really going to pop this year more than I think people are expecting. Who do you think when Kenny Clark, Zadarius Smith,

Rishon, Gary, and Preston Smith are on the field at the same time together? Who is the lightest person in that group? It's Zadarius, right? It's Preston Smith. Do you know how much he weighs? No way. 270 pounds. The lightest guy among those four weighs 270 pounds.

And those are all athletic dudes. That's what you're working with here. We talk about this all the time. We did this in the defensive trends podcast that we talked when we talked to Deontay. That idea of just rushing four, you're in your gap, make shit happen. Those days are over. You want to toss bodies around. You want guys that are wrecking balls.

And that's what they have. They have these really powerful rushers that can just displace people with some of those stunts and games, and they're almost interchangeable. If you want to move Zadarius inside and have Rishan Gary outside, if you want to move Mishan Gary inside and move Zadarius outside, the ways they can attack you with those fronts. And that's the thing that really jumps out about the stuff that the Rams did is the front structures and the ways that they played. They were unpredictable. On any given play, it was hard to know who was going to be lining up where in the front. whether it was the personnel or their alignment. The Packers have the guys to do that.

And like you mentioned, they also have the guys to do it in the safety spots. It was funny when I was there, I was asking Adrian Amos about it. I was like, do you feel like you've gone back in time a little bit because it's all the Fangio stuff? And he's like, yes. And he is a perfect fit for this because he's done it. The language is the same. The ideas are the same. And that's the fun part about this defense is that it doesn't require a lot of imagination

to see how these ideas, that the Rams and Broncos use can work with this group. Amos is a one-for-one trade-off. We've already seen him do it. Savage is the perfect safety for that system. You can literally do as much of that backside lock stuff with Jair Alexander as you want to. If you want to play that four or three lock where he's just taking up one side of the field and you want to flip the coverage to the other side, you can do that all the time.

I think this could be like one of the best defenses in the NFL if Joe Barry hits the ground running. I really do. I really do too. watching it in preseason and I couldn't believe like I can't believe what I'm saying this because I try not even just a grain of salt but more like an ounce of salt with preseason stuff I'm watching it I'm like yeah no this makes sense like I just saw the safeties just kept the backup safeties just kept flying up they're you know they're coming up in the box and I'm like yeah this this is going to work I really do think this is going to work and that's the thing my entire rant at the

beginning of this praising them I didn't even mention Jair Alexander who just kind of like you just said it can't lock down a whole side he's a top five corner it's it's really it's going to be exciting stuff. I mean, it really is. And if you get pissed off Aaron Rogers on offense, you know, it could be some fireworks with that team. So I think that's been one of our kind of, I wouldn't say realizations, but really something we shine a light to throughout this off season was how stack the Packers are.

I mean, we did in the non-quarterback draft and we're like, they got a lot of dudes, a really lot of dudes. You're bringing up the wrecking ball stuff like Kenny Clark is the epitome of that. It's just wreck shit. It's just big athletic dudes just going. It's not one guy, like you said, just shooting. All right, we got a 20-sat guy, and then we got a whole bunch of nothing. You know, it's a bunch of guys, any of them can make the play.

It's scary stuff. And it's going to be really fun. I really do think. I think this, I could see the light and what they're doing in Green Bay. So it's going to be cool. I was a guy that Ben Fenno, who writes a little bit for the athletic and is a guy, somebody that we both know, he was pointing out to Teterrell Slaten, their fifth round pick, just eating up blocks in the preseason.

And again, it's preseason. but that's the type of guy you need in this defense. You need that Sebastian Joseph Day that comes out of the woodwork who's just going to eat a gap in a half whenever you need him to and just be able to cycle those guys in and out of the game.

And that's exactly what a guy like that seemingly can give you. All right, let's get to our next one here. We don't have to spend a ton of time on this. I just feel like we need to point it out because of the pure amount of talent they have. The Broncos finished 13th in defensive DVOA last year. allow me to read off some of the guys

who got more than 300 snaps for this team okay more than 250 snaps Michael OJ Moodya had 852 snaps for this team

last year AJ Boyer played 410 snaps for this team last year A song Bassi played 382 snaps

Devante Bosby played 277 snaps a corner we are flipping out the Michael OJ Moodya A.J. Boyer Bassey and Busby

snaps for Kyle Fuller and Ronald Darby. And that's before we add Patrick Sertan to the mix. And Von Miller is back. Yep. Yeah. Decent, right? Like, seems like a couple guys there that are notable. And we didn't even mention Justin Simmons, you know, like, Mr. Chob.

Like, it's, it's, it's ridiculous. It's like, I actually was just laughing because I have the roster up right here. And then Michael Ojimandia. Oji Boudier is how I'm going. Okay. I know. Okay. Well, you're so much better than I am.

I'm just like, I'm just, I just, I just spit it out. It's like, however it comes across, it's my brain first. But with him, it's just like, that's what's hilarious is even on the roster of Debt chart, he's listed third. Yes. You know, how many snaps he played last year. We've talked about all the Fangio defense this whole off season. And it's like, well, let's look at the actual Fangio defense.

And it's not like he's coaching a bunch of scrubs where it's like, you know, the scheme's good, though. You know, the scheme's good. it's like, no, it's just stars littered throughout. And it's cool. And they're going to be with, they're going to be with the guy that's actually going to be. And having follower there is going to be really cool. Like, I know you've mentioned it before, but like that's going to be really fun to see him back.

It's the best place he's ever been. It's the best he's ever been is getting to just play that off coverage in that system where he's on that, the cover four side where he can just play off and play downhill. He might be the best player in the NFL. He might be the best off corner in the league. And he gets to go now with the head coach and the defensive coordinator at Donatel, who was his defensive backs coach in Chicago. Like, there's no, again, there's no imagination required here.

No. Sometimes with really, really, really talented units, you think, ah, do they have the guy that can bring it all together? The guy that can bring it all together is the best defensive coordinator in the NFL. It's not a... Exactly. Exactly. So now the guy that everyone else is trying to steal from has the best players.

I think it's probably going to go pretty well. I did a show today and they asked, they're like, man, what is this? Is Sean Payton going to be able to adapt his offense without quick game and throwing it quick with breeze? Is this offense going to be able to handle throwing it deep? And I was like, did you watch the 2011 Saints? Yeah. And that's like I kind of kind of time is a flat circle actually. That's what's funny about the NFL.

And it was like, yeah, he's going to be fine. But that's the same. It's like, Sean Payton, it could be okay running play action stuff. It's like, yeah, it's Big Fangio going to be okay to handle these two high defenses, cover six, cover four, and all the stuff that comes with it. It's like, yeah, they're going to be okay. And like you said with Fuller, that's what he's so smart. And a smart corner playing off is such a different world than a smart corner playing in man.

They teach man to corners that you sign off the street, you know, off practice squad to play for a game. They play man the rest of the game because it's the easiest coverage. Hey, you got this guy. There's no rules with it. So they'll, I mean, seriously, that's why man. man coverage is pretty easy. It's like, yeah, I got this man. You know, and then that's okay. So, but getting these zones was different rules, different techniques and stuff. Yeah,

it's just going to be a comfort thing. And it's just, you just look at it and you're like, already Von Miller was, it's funny when you don't see a guy for a year, also they come back and it's like, oh, yeah, that's got, that guy was a star. And there's another player I'll talk about a minute with that. One of the best players of his generation. A guy who literally you had an account for. We had protections in Oakland literally just called 54, 55 Vaughn, because that's what it was just called, just Vaughn. And then it became a rule because we used it for other games, but it was developed and one game against him in 2016. And we just used it. And then we were like, do we change the name of who we do it to?

And they're like, no, we just keep calling it Vaughn. We just know who the guy is because it just flowed better. You're not going to say so, blah, blah, blah. It's three syllables. It doesn't come out as smooth. So that's, yeah, that's Vaughn Miller. That's only a couple of years ago. But I still, even if it's 90, 80 percent of what he was, it's still a freaky dude.

And that's not even including Bradley Chub, who we've, you know, I've done a bad job. even mentioning enough because he's a very good player as well. And the fact that he doesn't have to be the guy or they could both be 1A1B. That's scary itself that you can rush forward with those two being there. And then Lindsey Jones favorite Shelby Harris. I'll be curious to see how the cornerback snaps end up shaking out. Obviously, Callahan will play in the slot. But at what point in what role does Certain gets a play?

Like is he, is he the fourth corner at the beginning? Is he, like, I just don't know how those snaps are going to shake out. it's a good problem to have. Having too many corners in this current day and age when if you want to play dime all the time, you just can. Like that is a benefit. And it seems like this team just has a ton of malleability

on the back end in the way that you want to, in the way you want to have it right now. Sir tango's the Broncos, he's the fourth. If he went to the Cowboys, like everyone expected it to go, like he would be like just, you're in,

hey, you're our guy, man. You're our guy, man. Like, hey, hey,

hey, you got him one-on-on-one the entire game. That's what that's what it would have been, or probably one side of Dan Quinn's defense. But it's a same thing. He would have been the number one day he walked in this time. Now he gets to go with the best and learn from some really good smart players. And he's already a smart player in himself. That's magic.

That's when magic happens, man. All right. Who is the next one on your list? I was going to go with the San Francisco 49ers. I am so curious as to why you put this team out here. I don't disagree. I just, I'm really interested in what you have to say about it. It was funny when I texted you that.

And he's just like 49ers. Like, okay. Yeah. But it's with them, it's more of a personnel thing. I think more than anything. You know, with Domeko Ryan's just bizarre that he's defensive coordinator already. Like just like, like, how old are we kidding, man? That he's the deep.

You all calling plays. Like he just started coaching like three or four years ago. But which I think is awesome. Kyle Shanahan, that's another thing that I love is that he wants his players, former players to be coaching. for him. I think that's a really cool thing, like kind of like a mix on his staff of good coaches and former players that he kind of gets along assistant receiver coaches and stuff. Miles Austin was the assistant receivers coach there right last year. And then Wes Walker is their

receivers coach. Now Miles Austin, I believe is the receivers coach for Michael Fleur with the Jets. It's just interesting to watch it all kind of move around. Yeah. And I think that's kind of cool. I like coaches that kind of do that guys they like and they tag them because that means they're paying attention, you know, like, hey, because he's a defense guy. He's like, hey, he, I obviously was like, hey, this guy's pretty good. But anyways, back to the day, I don't think they're going to change much scheme-wise, having said all that. I think the one thing that Ryans did bring, and I'm just gleaning a little bit at the preseason, again, ounce of salt, is maybe a little more third down pressures. It's a little more varied.

I think that would be the one thing he brings that's a little different. You see that sometimes when guys take over or come in when Vance Joseph went to the Broncos. He ran all weight fill of stuff on first and second down. And on third down, it was all Vance Joseph's stuff. He was like, okay, okay. Now it's my time to shot. Totally different. So it was like you had a game plan against two different defenses, basically.

I could see it kind of being like that. He's like, hey, as Mike Love said, don't F with the formula. Like just, you know, just kind of we're going to stick with that. And then also on third down, maybe throwing what his ideas. But again, we're talking about Von Miller coming back. Nick Bosa coming back is he's dynamite. I rewatched him again before he got hurt. And it's like, oh my God, we just, it's, yeah, he's going to be really good.

Thankfully, it was an early injury. It sounded like it was clean. so hopefully, you know, he's really going to come back with a forest. Armstead is armstead. D. Ford, hopefully, you know, he's more solid than anything. And then Kinla has been banged up as well. But, you know, he did have flashes of good. I rewatched him recently.

I was hoping, you know, he's just banged up. It's just, it is what it is. And that's like you're hoping that that's not going to be a tag on him. But then more than anything, they have Fred freaking Warner, who I'm so excited to watch continue his career, big money now. But, I mean, one of the most fun players to watch any position is Fred Warner playing. Or allow them to do. What does he give them as a linebacker that you wouldn't have from other guys playing

that position? What does it free you up to do elsewhere? Put it this way. He is one of the best coverage players in the league, any position. I didn't say corner or lineback or anything, period. He can cover run with a receiver. And on the next nap, he can read out a run, read a guy pulling and fill the run. He's, you know, what Bobby Wagner's been for years in Seattle.

There's like, you know, it's just how it goes, I guess. Just one comes along every five years, seven years. That's what he is. He can carry that number three receiver going on over if they want to stay in the cover three quarters world rotating down. Like he can do all that. Like you have seen him manned up with receivers and slot and run with them whip routes. He covered Julian Edelman on a whip route like it was nothing. But then on the next play, he's taken on a polar and whappenom and then making the tackle for a three yard gain. It's like he could just do everything. He's so smart. And he's not as big as a lot of tradition. I mean, he's still big NFL linebacker, but traditional at linebacker sense. But he's more. athletic. He's kind of the new age linebacker or the epitome of a new age linebacker. So that's kind of what he does. Sure, long answer, everything, or short answer, everything. He kind of does. And you know, there's another guy I'm excited to see there is Mo Hurst. I was just about to break him up. How excited are you for Mo Hearst to be, who's making $1 million this year to get seven and a half sacks and get a two year $20 million deal somewhere

next off season? It's called the Chris Kucurik plan. It's a Chris Kassurik career like revitalization. plan. It's exactly what Carrie Heider did last year. It's like, it's like Sabin with all the coaches, all the quality, all the coaches he hires. It says, yeah, it's just the rehab. He's just going to bring him in. Hey, hey, just one year with me. One year on the cheap with me. You don't get the call place. But hey, hey, you got a job now, right? Tuscaloosa, you use that as a springboard to your next college head coaching job. The interior of the Niners offensive line is your springboard to your next big contract in the NFL,

no matter where you came from before that. The cradle of defensive tackles. That's what it is. And it's just, I think that obviously he's not there anymore now, but what has happened with this defense over the last three to four years? I think is such an indication of the benefits of humility and the willingness to change. Because the Niners looked at what they were doing at front and said, this isn't working.

We need to fold something else into this. And they went and they won a bidding war for Chris Kassarik before the 2019 season. They have this attacking. style front now that unlocks guys like Armstead where Bosa is a perfect fit. You have the best versions of all these guys up front. And then Joe Woods comes along that same year and all of this kind of Seattle-based cover three stuff that they were doing. It's like, well, we need to mix this up a little bit.

We need to throw like a man counterpunch here, more quarters on early downs and watching the system kind of evolve over the last few years into what it was last year, which is a top 10 defense without some of their best players is just a testament to the staff's willingness to embrace new ideas to try different things and to just say if we don't evolve we're going to go the way of the dinosaur here. Yeah. It's so funny you said I was just talking about some of it earlier. We're talking about some office coronary. But we're just talking about that's what's so happens over and over again, you know, not for long NFL is just the guys don't adapt or they're stubborn and go, well, it worked once. We just need to execute better.

But like you said, it's just evolving with the times or evolving to their personnel. They went to Too High last year. We talked about this is that seeing them change that defense throughout the year last year with injuries or just realizing what they were. That's what made me go like, oh, Salah is a hell of a coach. Like he is so much more than what I thought he was. But there was also identifying that, hey, Jimmy Ward's pretty good coming from Too High. You know, it's just ideeing. Hey, these are our good players.

Let them be good. Like, let them be good. And also like every team needs this. They need a couple guys to hit their younger. and stuff like that. And like even watching their backups, their backups are playing fast. Yeah. And that's always a good indicator.

Like that, okay, this team's pretty well coach. That's what's scary about like watching the Jaguar's second team all line. You're like, oh, boy. But it's, it's, but watching the backups play well, you're like, oh, this, that's how you can see really good coaching when you don't see the center looking left and right, getting, you know, your, your number one in Chicago getting his head smoked up and not signed the protection right. Like one of them had to pick it up.

We can talk about that later. But like, I was just talking about two is just finding these guys. It's like they had a corner just stood out, like de Mojure, the Nor. And I might be butchering his name. He's a rookie from Oregon. He had like three plays where I thought, I was like, who the hell is this guy? And I finally looked him up. And I was like, he's a rookie.

He's like a fifth round rookie because he just looked so sharp. And so I was like, well, listen, they're going to need some corners to step up for them because that is the one area where it's a tenuous situation. It's a lot of eggs in the Jason Verrett basket. Yeah. And a lot of eggs. And hey, our pass rush will get home in two and a half seconds. Yes, exactly.

Yeah, that's what they're going with. And I'm still excited to watch it unfold. But yeah, the 49ers defense, though, I think it's going to be one of those for after a while work. Oh, shit. Yeah, a little better than I recalled, even if it's a different version of what we saw two years ago or even last year. One more just quick offshoot of the Niners here is the Browns.

We talk about the connection there. Obviously, Joe Woods was the passing game coordinator, I think only for a year in his stop between Denver and being the defensive coordinator with Cleveland. So if you look at just some of the numbers, the Niners play the most quarters on first down in the NFL last year. I think the Browns were second. So you have a lot of similar ideas carrying over.

And the way the Browns built this offseason, I think is really notable and really indicative of a shift just fundamentally in the league. Andrew Barry is somebody who comes from Indianapolis and Philadelphia. How are defense, those, and the Indianapolis teams were the Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis teams, and then the Eagles were built with Brandon Graham, Flesher Cox, Derek Barnett. They're back to front teams.

And I think watching the Browns build this team from front to back this offseason is such an indication of the shift in thinking that's going on around the NFL. And I think Andrew Barry looked at everything going on and said, we need more resources on the back end. this is the way that we should start to build now. This is a team that wants to live in dime. Joe Woods told me that last week. They want to be a dime team.

If you think about where they came from and just the ways they want to play, so now they have the corners to be a dime team. They have Greg Newsom as their third cornerback now. They can play three safeties when Grant Delpit comes back with Ronnie Harrison. You have so many different ways to put six defensive backs on the field, and I'm just curious about how they're going to do it and how it's going to look. So just the experiment there and how they use their resources. I don't know how good it's going to be, but I'm curious what it's going to look like in practice.

Yeah. I mean, even just their first two picks makes all the sense in the world. Greg Newsom and J. OK, you know, the lineback from Notre Dame. It's like, okay. Who looks ridiculous already? Does he? Yeah, I know.

I've kind of, I watched him, but I was just kind of like I haven't really read them in practice or anything. Because that's, if they want to be in this dime, they can almost be in the nickel and get away with dime with this, because he's going to be that kind of a hybrid type of player. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited. You know, so it's kind of like get the best of both worlds. That's why these kind of hybrid-y kind of guys. Think about a world where you can have Delpit, Harrison, John Johnson, as your three

safeties. Your three corners are Denzo Ward, Greg Newsom, and Troy Hill, and then JOK as your only linebacker on the field. You think you'll be able to cover some people if that's the way that you play dive? Speed, speed. That's what it is. And also that's another thing. well it's going to happen anyways because of the number changes but is that's so hard for points and protections because it's this unless the guys are all on the same page some guys will get confused going which not which guys's mine because in protection schemes you go you're matching like bodies you want your running back on a lineback or a safety so all of a sudden but now it is usually it's easy oh okay well there's 26 out there well that's a running back's guy we're pointing to 54 there's another 52 right there oh that's easy those are our guys you know just like for offensive alliance sake and all of a sudden now

So runback has to look and it's like, I got five guys and 20 numbers, you know, and 30 numbers going, all right, this isn't as easy to point out, sift through which guys are mine. So like that's what even dime gets you some front pressure looks, especially if you can get creative with if you guys out because it can kind of really mess with. You can bring anybody. You can literally bring anybody because you can cover with anybody. Now that's what's, that's the flexibility that that provides having more speed on the field. But we might might see some of that more zone runs on third and long that I love so much. to counter it. All right.

Let's get to your next one here. Okay. Next one is so weird to be talking about like kind of like in like a positive light, but like the Patriots. I am so glad that you mentioned them for that exact reason because I think I am so guilty of this where my tone just kind of changes when I talk about them because it's like, oh, the Patriots, but it has to be the opposite with this. Like I just think we have to keep reminding ourselves just what kind of bodies they

added to their defense. Correct. That's what got me so excited, especially seeing the kind of clips I've seen. It made sense when they signed him. When they signed him, it was like, this makes all the sense in the world. Like he, because he's a little more expensive than the guy in that role typically is in their defense. Correct. But similar player.

Yes. Yes. Yes. It's, it's the most premium version that Belchick's ever had. Like he's never, he usually puts a, you know, just a he picks up a truck for this or like a beat up Camry, you know. But this time he got a bends, you know. He, that's what he did. That's what he, he's made a living of just flipping fords and Chevys.

And now he also, he bought a German car. Like all of a sudden he went out and got it because he, that's what Judon is. It's not, I'm not saying he's a premium pass rusher, but he is really good. I just pushing the pocket. He crush his tight ends. He's good at kind of knifing in and, uh, games and twist because he's just good at just kind of that straight force. He's not a bendy, twitchy guy, straight force.

And that's what's this whole defense is just tied together in all that. Kickers. Just ass kickers. That's ridiculous. That's what they want. They want to beat the crap out of you up front and they just push. But I just remember when we were game planning against him. My dad just goes, that's how he does.

It just gets big dudes that just kick your ass because they just had a bunch of, like they had 270 pound Mike linebackers, all the other guys. Everybody else is going fast and twitchy. They're getting 280 pound outside linebackers just push, push, push, push. And that's what Belichick's gone after his whole career. And, but what they do in the passing game, ties in to that because that's why they play that man coverage where they double somebody. And they put, you know, they put Gilmore, whoever their number one is on their other number one,

or maybe their number two option, is that they're trying to get the quarterback to just double clutch and hold the ball, just get to the third read or, you know, try and create get outside of it. So that's what it all ties in together. They run the man coverage. They get these guys that can push the pocket. It's the same thing we talked about earlier. They're just just like how the Giants with Russell Wilson, that's what they're trying to do. They're just making that real tight, real tight on the quarterback because not a lot of guys are comfortable throwing, you know, with a no step, throwing sidearm, throwing like kind of off platform.

All these, we get a lot of guys. We see the perfect dropback and the perfect pass. That happens like five times a game, maybe. So that's what Belichick has always leaned into. And they thrive with it. They get a whole bunch of six and eight set kind of guys, not, not the 10, 12, 15 sack guys. It's the same philosophy to the Legion of Boom went through. Just cover three, but they did with more five pass rushers, just.

edginess cutting in cutting in this is just kind of like a power version of that push the pocket run good coverage behind it and just make plays and force quarterbacks make errors i think the the through line with all of their guys especially at the linebacker level or those hybrid linebackers that they have is size and power right like high tower judan now jude but but they're all slightly different right like judan is less of an offball linebacker than dante hightower is even if high tower kit has pass rushing traits right they're all these they're similar body types with slightly different skill sets. Like Uche is way more of a bender than those other guys are.

So you can use him in some of those stunts. They all have very specific, like very, they have varied skill sets even if they're cut from the same cloth. And I think that's exactly what you like where it there's a uniformity to the way you can play, but everyone adds their little different flavor to it. And it seems like that's exactly what they have on the second level right now. And that's Van Nuoy Winnevich.

Like you got those two. Like it's just like, yeah, it's just different. Yeah, it's just different colors, different flavors of the exact same thing. And it works. I mean, it's really annoying to play against.

I'm telling you, it's really, really annoying because it's, you're like, man, they're not bringing anything. We know what they're bringing. Like,

why is this happening? Like, why? It's just because they just are so, they can rotate guys now. If we don't have just two guys, we have to rely on to push, we got four guys.

That's, that's tough. It's just like having four bendy, edgy guys. Like we talk about San Fran or something like that. And now they just have four pocket strength guys. And then, like,

great point with High Tower. That's what he always go, is always gone for. He's gone for that run plugging linebacker and the high tower is fantastic at it. It's just, you know, which is those guys. It's just like he could just boom. They just bite a bite up, blow up a fullback, blow up a guard if he's bringing an A gap or the B gap. That's the kind of stuff that they want. And it's kind of cool to see a whole team built around that. And also, if you're an offensive lineman playing against this team, you just got to be worried about who's going to hit you in the earhole and who's going to be looping around. Like how much you have to have your head

and a swivel playing against this group is going to be crazy. And then they have the bodies on the back end to play like that. I don't think it's as good as the secondary was a couple years ago, but it's still a pretty darn good group. And it still very much clears the bar for them to play this style if they get a ton more help on the front end. Looking at football outsider's almanac, which if you guys haven't picked it up is an indispensable resource this time of year. I bought it every single year since 2008. In their Patriots chapter, the Patriots added more approximate value over replacement on defense this offseason than, any team since 2003.

Any team in the last 20 years. And these are guys coming back. It's not just outside additions, but getting Dante Hightower back, getting Kyle Van Nuoy back. The pure talent and just production they've added on the defensive side of the ball in the last six months is staggering.

It's that bump. It's not going from bad to average. It's going from bad to good. Yes. So it's not just one tier better. It's two tiers or three tiers better. That's the difference. It's not going like,

oh my God, we got somebody competent. It's like, no, we got a good, good starter. This is great. We got three or four of them now. A couple of more that we don't have to spend a ton of time on. I think they're just little bits of curiosity associated with that. I can't wait to watch the Chargers because I just want to see what this defense looks

like filtered through Joey Bosa and Derwin James. Talking to Brandon Staley about it, just discussing the idea that Derwin James and Jalen Ramsey are the same kind of queen on the chess board in your secondary, but because they play different positions, you just have to think about the ways to flip your resources in a slightly different way. And I think that's really cool. It's like, all right, this is a guy we need to play different roles for us and flip the math sometimes. How do we do that? How do we build the defense on the back end around him? And the same goes for Joey Bosa. And obviously, the stuff they did with Colomac and Von Miller is going to be a roadmap for that. Some of the ways that they created one-on-ones

for Khalil when Brandon Staley was in Chicago. You can see it all. a version of it. You can predict it a little bit, but I'm really excited to see what it actually looks like down in and down out because the personnel is just so much different than it was last year with the Rams. When they gave Derwin James the green dot, I was like, oh boy,

like they, he wants to highlight him. Like, that's awesome. And that's a guy that you want to highlight. And that's just good coaching, right? That's just,

hey, what's highlight our best player, or I know Joey Boss is ridiculous too, but our best player on the back end and let him be him. Like, let him come up, let him make plays. That we've talked about again and again and again and again is that that defense is going

to highlight safety play. It's going to highlight these guys that can go do shit. And that's what's going to be cool with this. We know it's Joey Boso. Someone else has to step up with the front. But this defense allows guys to get help. It's not two gaping. It's a gap and a half because now it's two guys covering three gaps, you know, et cetera,

et cetera, or four gaps. But also defensively, if you're in this cover six quarters, you know, variation, you're always going to have help on that left and the right of you. It's just how they bracket things off, how they, how they read the flow of the offensive play. You're always going to just have help. You don't need all these guys isolated. Doing insane, like we have better guys and your guys. Yeah, they do. And that's what's helped. That's when you can lock a guy on the backside. You can have a safety blitz. And that's why I'm

really excited to see what kind of safety blitz variations you might have. But also just seeing how you can help like the second tier, the linebackers. And just seeing how that's going to be over in the middle. I think that's what this defense is going to help more than anything. And you got a couple good players. And it looks like Asante Samuel's having a good camp. I'm excited to see what he does because he just seems to be that guy who's just going to be lurking and is picking off like eight passes over the course of the year. And that's what he was in college. Like he was such a heady player. It makes sense. You know, like, wow, what a concept. Get, you know, former, former really good player's sons that went to big programs. Like, well, that's, that's working out.

And the other side of this is that with the Rams, they did everything they could to minimize the impact of the linebackers. Now you have real linebackers. So what does the defense look like when you don't have to hide those guys and you can feature them in the way that these defenses from this system have done in the past?

When you had the combination of Roquant Smith and Danny Jervathin in this defense, when you had Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman in this defense. And do you know who else was on those teams as the third linebacker? Michael Wilhoite. Do you know who the linebackers coach is

for the Chargers? Michael Willhoite. Michael Willhoite. I was going to say Chris Borland. Of course, Chris Borland. Chris Borland was the best of those linebackers. Former Grantland NFL podcast star Chris Borland. So I, that's the type of all time.

Those are the types of things that's like, all right, how is this going to work out? Like, all right, you have a linebackers coach who played and coach, who played in a version of this defense where the linebackers were highlighted pieces instead of marginalized pieces. What does that mean for the way the Chargers to play their linebackers? It's just these ideas are always. filtered through personnel. We say that all the time. So they're going to look inherently different.

And I'm just excited to see what version the chargers are going to roll out there based on their personnel. Yeah. It's I think the linebacker points, the most important of all of them is that actually having guys that like you said, not trying to hide. And also, but just like I said, you're having to help defense and coverage. It's different from the Seahawks defense where it was we have really good players. Let's put them all in ISO ball.

And just, hey, what's have our linebacker. carry receivers. Let's have Richard Sherman locked down a whole side, man up. Let's have Earl Thomas back there as opposed safety going from, you know, sideline to sideline. These guys, when now it's, they want them play fast. And that's what the linebacker, especially their pick last year, Kenneth Murray, that's what he does. He can run and hit. And that's what you're trying to do. It's like, okay, now I don't have to carry anything. Now I have to play up and down. I can actually get help from the left and the right. And then once in a while, use my speed on maybe an inside the linebacker dog.

That's what I just talked about with the Packers. I mean, they're coming from what the Rams did last year. It's just going to be these oneies and the best guys to do those with. And when I say a single linebacker dog, I'm just saying they rush for, they bring one guy right up to shoot and they drop one of the ends. And when Kenneth Murray, who's a legit speed guy, he can shoot that gap, that's going to be pretty fun to see. That's why I'm excited to see is just the pressures and blitzes that maybe

throws with guys that are better at pressuring and blitzing than he had and the other LA team with the ramps. Speaking of pressure, the last team I wanted to mention here, just out of pure fun is the Washington football team's defense. Yeah. I mean, I just cannot wait to see what that front looks like in year two. I mean, Chase Young just adding 15% more nuance to his pass rush game in year two. And even just think about that.

Think about Chase Young being like the 2.0 version of what he was last year. Even that rush he had against Isaiah win in that preseason game is you get one or two of those a game on top of what sweat gives you as a number two rusher. Jonathan Allen is one of the most nuanced and skilled interior past rushers in the entire NFL. Ionitis is there, DeRond Payne. And then now the guys they added on the back end. So last year, the Giants were 28th in man-in-coverage percentage on third down.

Washington was 29th. They're 31.3% man on third down. You go get William Jackson. You go get Bobby McCain, who is the free safety from the most man-enhead team in the NFL last year in Miami. You drop him in as your free safety. And the guy they drafted Benjamin St. Juist, I think, in the third round.

Did you see how him pushing Jamar Chase around during that game? Six three extremely long arms. You drop him in and die him if you want to throw different third down packages at people. So just whatever the third down looks from this team are, if they play a little bit more man coverage, plus just the pure juice in the front four. I mean, this team could be really, really good. if they just take that next step and have a few more curve balls to what we saw last year when they were an extremely quarters heavy zone heavy pretty bland vanilla team in a lot of ways

yeah last year it was like okay we're going to rush five because we have five ridiculous stud pass rushers and then like okay whatever we were on the back end we ran on the back end you could tell where they were built they were brought front back you know or defensive front to the back and and like you said like having getting a little more talent on the back end now they can just do shit. It's you can live in that quarter's world or it's a little safer coverage. Um, like I said, the help defense is that they did that on first down, go nuts. But now, what can you throw people on third down? That's, that's the big question. That's the big change up. Now we can blitz. Now we can run man. We don't have to run zone blitzes.

We can actually run true man blitzes where you're having guys come in, knifing in, all that kind of stuff. Or you just put five pass rushers on the field and get six guys that can cover behind it. That's the fun stuff that that unlocks. And yeah, I mean, what more you can say is. linebacker in the first round from Kentucky, right? Yeah. He can roll. That's all I know about him is that he can roll. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense.

It makes sense without the defense front is going to be one of the best units to watch, period of any team, any unit defensive or offense, special teams unit. That is the defensive front for Washington is going to be one of the most fun ones to watch this entire year. And I think they're just going to be better from what they built on last year. I do miss seeing Ryan Carrigan on a Washington uniform, though. That's going to be, that's going to be tough. because that's who he just associated with me. That in Purdue when he kicked our ass. But somehow I'll get over while watching Chase Young and Mato Swat play for 16 games, 17 games.

Oh, Chase Young, man. Would you take him number two in our draft? I took him number two. And as soon as I saw that play against the Patriots, I was like, yep, I made the right decision. You're already anching them to the new deal. He gets out of tomorrow if he wants to. I want to sign him before Watt signs his. That's where I'm at.

That's where I'm at right now. It's my thought process. Smart. I like that. Nate, that's all we got, buddy. You will be back next week on Tuesday for guess what? The NFC North Preview. Today is one year since I started at the athletic,

and that will be the anniversary of our first podcast together. We made it. We made it an entire year, and we're about to start year number two. A lot of fun stuff coming your guys' way. I will be able to share that with everybody here in the coming days. it's going to be a really fun second season. And I cannot wait to kick it off with you, my friend. I can't wait.

Oh my God. That was a year ago. Can I tell you a quick story real quick? Of course. The day that you announced that on Twitter that you were going to be athletic, hey, I'm going to start a podcast, tag me in it. Everyone was like, who the hell is Nate Tice? I had food poisoning that day.

So my phone, I'm on, like, hovered over the toilet, you know, puking. I'm so sorry, everybody. And there's my phone just on the, on the counter, just Just everyone text. Congrats. Oh my God. That's awesome. People DM me on Twitter.

I didn't know you were doing that. And I'm like, I didn't answer anybody. People just probably thought I just big time. I'm like just day one. Just like, yeah, I'm dropping all of you guys. But I've never, this show has been a lot of fun. I'm so excited for year too with you, buddy.

And happy one of your anniversary to you. Well, happy one year anniversary to you as well. And I think the one thing we can say to people is that this year, you and I twice a week. we will be doing our Sunday night show the same way we did all year last year. We also will be doing a show previewing every single week. So you get two times the Nate in 2022, folks. So I hope you guys are excited about that. Oh, my God.

I'll try to cut back on the laughing a little bit. So people just kill themselves. You're good, buddy. You do you. It'll be great. I can't wait. It's going to be awesome. I can't wait for the Sunday night shows when we're looking at each other red-eyed going

like, okay, what happened again? All right. Yeah. It's going to be great. It's going to be great pocket. and thought I can't wait. All right, bud. We'll talk to you next week.

Sounds good. All right, guys. It's time now for our conversation with one of our Bears writers at the athletic Adam Johns, somebody that I have read for years, obviously as a Chicago resident and as a Bears fan.

We got into everything about this team, the Justin Fields conversation, the timeline for Matt Nagy, what's going to happen on defense with Sean Desai. Really enjoyed exploring all this stuff with Adam. Hope you guys enjoyed too. All right, it's time now to welcome, I mean, I have known and read for many, many years, one of our Bears writers at the athletic Adam Johns.

Adam, how you doing, buddy? Very good, very good. Welcome to the coat closet. We are literally in a coat closet at Hallis Hall. It's a quiet place with chairs, and that's all I need at this point. So I made it to Bears Camp, which is now at Halls, which is a little bit different, different sort of feel. Different sort of feel today.

It was, as it was explained to me several times, a glorified walkthrough. and that's kind of the roulette you play when you drop in for a day. Sometimes it's a full-scale practice where you can glean a lot. Sometimes it's a glorified walkthrough when my main takeaway about Justin Fields was, he looks cool. He does. Especially with the visor, you know, but they're all rocking the visor. All the QBs have.

I will say he looks cooler than Nick Falls. Oh, come on, slice of dice. I'm willing to say that. I'm willing to say that. So obviously not a ton of glean from practice today, but still so much to talk about with this team. And let's start with him. because that's going to be the number one conversation

and the number one point of interest until it's not. When do you think he plays and what do you think the rationale is behind that timeline? It's just how, like, how do you define ready and who's defining ready? I mean, obviously the final answer in defining ready is I'm at Nagy, but who, like how much is actually going into this process? I don't think we see it from the outside because we're not here at night. not in these meetings. They're demanding different things.

It was just a couple weeks ago where Matt Nagy was demanding that Justin Fields get to his checkdowns faster. Now, those are our exciting plays, but that's part of the process. He wants them to see him going through his progressions and stuff like this. So it's very nuanced, but the definition of ready, I don't know what it is because sometimes he looks very ready. He looked ready against the Dolphins in the preseason game, but that's a preseason game. He feels ready, if you talk to it. them, but at the same time, he makes mistakes here in practice. Now, those mistakes are outnumbered by some amazing throws.

The mistakes have been limited, but that definition of ready, it's on Matt Nagy to define it and then throw them in. I don't know when that's going to be. I don't think there's a soft landing spot during the regular season for them just to take the field. The late season vibe makes it a little bit more complicated. If it was week five, maybe you think, oh, that fits perfectly well, but you don't want to have that ramp up period, three-quarters of the way into the year, if you want to get him in there earlier.

Right, right. People have suggested the early game against the Lions because it's the Lions, but still a divisional game. Like there are so many different things going on with the schedule this year with the 17th game, the late by all that stuff. It's one of the hardest schedules in the league. No soft playoff team. When you make the playoffs, you get a playoff schedule.

There you go. There you go. You know, darn that seventh seat. Here we are. I think everybody's, eager to see him play in a regular season game, but I don't think it's going to be week one. We're going to have to wait. I think there are two different conversations of play.

I think he could be ready and the smart thing could still not be to put him out there. And for that, I think there's multiple layers to it. The offensive line is so in flux. I mean, you have a guy you drafted 37th over, 37, 39th overall to be your left tackle. He just had back surgery, which got the Chris Williams vibes. I mean, it's so hard not to. Your mind instantly goes to that place. And hopefully this works out better.

But it really throws a wrench into the plans. Because when you release Charles Leno and you have this idea of this guy's going to be our left tackle, we'll piece together the right tackle with a fete and some combination of Larry Borm and whatever, and you feel good about the interior. You can talk yourself into that group in front of a rookie quarterback. Now it becomes more complicated. You don't have that left tackle that you were planning on. your right tackle is still on the pup list.

And do we have a timeline of when he's supposed to return to practice? No, no, no, no, we haven't seen him to do much physical activity in quite some time. So that's an issue. Larry Borme, who they were very excited about, Matt Nagy was saying today that, you know, we had a second third round grade on this guy. We're treating him like that in terms of expectations and everything else. He's been a little bit dinged up. So the options are just limited.

And you bring in 39-year-old Jason Peters, which Jason Peters is a Hall of Fame tackle. He's been one of the best players and the standard at the position for over a decade. He's also had trouble staying healthy over the last couple years and he was available in the middle of August, most likely for a reason.

It's not a group that you can get excited about. And you're working with a quarterback like you mentioned that wants to hunt for big plays. That's what he does. He's going to hang on to it. That's his nature. And I think in a lot of ways, that's a good thing.

If you can be accurate down the field and you have that arm, I love it. But at the same time, I don't think he's as prone to protecting himself as some other quarterbacks might not be. You throw Joe Burrow out there last year

and you have this death by a thousand paper cuts offense and you have all these empty sets and you think he'll protect himself with the way he sees things. I don't think Justin Fields is that kind of quarterback. I kind of think you have to protect him from himself. And when you're not feeling that good about the offensive line, that is a dicey situation for me over the first quarter of the season.

The counter argument, if you listen to some fans, as well if the offensive line is that bad, put the better athlete back there. Put the guy who could escape. That scares me. I know, right? And we've seen that play out with Trubisky

where he was a better athlete. You would escape pressure and he just couldn't slide. Well, Justin Fields, I think, could slide a bit better. I don't like that conversation, at least with Fields, because he likes, like you mentioned, he looks downfield for a long time. I don't want to say he's holding on the ball too long,

but you saw him do it at all. Ohio State. We've seen him do it in practice. You've seen Matt Nagy reference this touchdown to touchdown mentality where he has this ability to connect on these deep shots to change the velocity of his throws, but touch on them all sorts of different things. He's got that ability. We've seen it numerous times here in practice. But that takes time. These guys are fast in the NFL, but they're like, they still have to take two or three seconds to get down the field. And these past rushers are darned fast too. They close fast. So if you got a Jason Peters, who's going to be.

he's approaching what 40 years old um just joined practice today for the first time what is it august 19th is he going to be ready in week one he have all sorts of concerns and if you're talking about a guy who can process things in in the pocket and get the ball quickly like right now your answer is probably any don't and you don't have i think that what i've learned over time as i've talked to people in the league is that you have to look at the season not as a 16 game set or 17 games set there are different chunks of it you don't be become the team you are until mid-season or until around Thanksgiving. Like, you have to think about it that way.

And like, if you give Fethe some time to get back, maybe you solidify that right side. Maybe you have a solution on the left side as Borum gets more time or whatever. You piece it together over the first month or six weeks of the season. I think buying yourself a little bit more time might be worthwhile because when it comes down to it, the only thing that matters is whether this guy succeeds. Like, it's all that matters. organizationally that's all that matters and I think the kind of a side hallway conversation off of this and I'm curious about your take I think part of this and his timeline we also have to

consider what the timeline the expectations and the demands are on this coaching staff in front office because if this is a situation where they've been told you can see this through maybe they're not as urgent about putting him out there because if they're one and three that's okay. I have zero feel on what the temperature is with all of that stuff so it's hard to know when they're going to feel the heat to put him in the game.

They have time to see this through. And that is good to know. Yes. Because that leads you to not make panicked decisions. Yes. I don't think this is, I hate like we have to compare it to 2017. Like I hate the comparisons. Maybe I'm just sick of them. But in 2017 you had a coach who was in a hot seat

who wasn't seen eye to eye with his general manager, a general manager who went rogue a little bit to go get his quarterback. Like that's the layered conversation for podcasts from before, but that was just a different situation than that exists right now where Ryan Pace and Matt Nagy were hand in hand going from Alabama to Columbus, Ohio, to scout these quarterbacks. They went through this together. They wanted to find their next quarterback together And they will have time together

To see this through Now look, this is where you're going to clarify the conversation If they have one win this year Sure, different conversations can be had But this is not a one-win football team No I just look at last year They had a quarterback controversy They had a six-game losing streak

And like we said, still managed to make the playoffs Like that's where they are but like they're going to see this through. They're going to have time. Like you just listen to Matt Nagy and you could tell he has time. He doesn't feel the pressure to Russia. Like everything he says,

every time he's brought up, yeah, he gets excited about Justin Fields. Who wouldn't be excited about Justin Fields? The guy's made some exceptional throws in practice. There's more reasons to be excited now than there were when he was drafted. But you just listen to him and you just get the sense that he has time,

time to see this through, that he sees value in him sitting. Justin Fields sitting during the regular season, whether that's three weeks, four weeks, six weeks, whatever, there's value in what he can learn by sitting behind Andy Don't. Like Matt Nagy sees value in that, and then you could sense that there is time to this process, and there's a patience to this,

a patience to this that's probably expressed throughout the whole organization. And I think that that is a good sign. I think that that is beneficial for the long-term development of Justin Fields, for the long-term health of the franchise. guys because there's just no reason to do this before you need to. I think all the other rookie quarterbacks, I think the moment they're ready to play, I'd be comfortable throwing them in the game simply because I have more faith in the infrastructure around them.

Yeah. I mean, with all the offensive line moving pieces, I just think this is the most tenuous, fragile spot that a rookie quarterback could walk into among those first round guys. I mean, even the Jets. I mean, you draft a guard in the first round. They go get Morgan Moses. I mean, that is still a more stable situation to me. than the one the bears are facing right now

because of everything that's happened over the last couple weeks. And the bears have tried. Yes. They drafted Tevin Jenkins in the second round. Obviously the back issues come up. They drafted Larry Borman. The fifth round, concussion issues develop.

Can't plan for all those things. No. You could question what the doctors did or didn't see on the Tevin Jenkins evaluation when they went through all the health stuff you need to go through. But that's, it's almost where they're beyond that now because now they have their surgery

and he's going to be out for a while. You try Elijah Wilkinson. You tried to two guys last year. So they've tried, but not to the certain... I would just say the success isn't there. Even a guy like James Daniels, who was playing so well last year, he gets hurt. Now he's back at right guard, which is a new position for him after playing left, guard, and center.

So there's just always seems to be a lot of moving pieces for this offensive line. I think that's been like a lingering problem for the Ryan Pace era is there's just been so many different faces, so many different combinations up front in terms of that line. And now it matters so, so much because of how valuable that guy is and how valuable his development is.

And I think that they did try and they did try to figure out a plan for this. But now that it hasn't necessarily worked out, you have to be nimble and you have to be flexible. You don't attach yourself to one version of this where it's like, we were going to have them out there week one and that was going to be it. If you don't feel comfortable about it,

you can pivot. That's the reason Andy Dalton is here. So this is going to be a conversation we have 100,000 times over the next couple months here. Let's change gears to the defense a little bit. Sean Desai talked to all of us today. Obviously, there are high hopes for what he can bring to this unit because they still have big name expensive guys on that side of the ball. Eddie Jackson, Khalil Mack, Eddie Goldman, Akeem Hicks. I mean, this is a group, Robert Quinn, that they really need to get a lot out of if this isn't going to be a one-win.

team. If you want to stay afloat this year and show that we're still playing hard, we're going places, we're making progress, I think the defense is going to need to do it as the offense kind of finds its footing. It seems to me, like they're putting a lot of faith in Sean Decis's ability to get the most out of that group. No, absolutely.

You can't even name to that because there should be more money spent in that defense soon enough. Guys like Belal Nichols in the contract. Guys like Roquant Smith. I know they picked up his fifth year option, so they have time, but... Well, it's the top ten pick. He's already expensive. Before the second contract. And he sees guys at his position getting big contracts around the league.

So that investment will continue on the defensive side. Huge stretch for the Darius Leonard Fred Warner stuff. I mean, that's big news for Roquant Smith. Yes, yes, absolutely. Yes, I would say just in terms of vibe and energy, I know these are like things you really can't quantify, but at least what I'm seeing in this camp compared to last camp. Last camp just seemed dull.

I don't know if it was just the pandemic or the, They weren't buying into Chuck Pagano anymore, or it was just a number of things. It felt like the whole team was in a holding pattern. Yes. They were just stuck in this middle ground where it's like, it's hard to get excited about Nick Foles. It just is. It's hard to be like, this is the guy that's going to take us there. And I think now you have a new quarterback.

You have a 38-year-old defensive coordinator. I would hope the vibe would be different. Yes, yeah. And it's visible. It's tangible. I mean, Sean Desai is on these guys. If you watch a practice, I know you saw the glorified walkthrough today, but when these drills are alive, I mean, he is very, very, like, I don't want to say,

like he's like he's on the field, like he's screaming. Not so much screaming like they're in trouble, but he is encouraging them loudly. He is correcting them almost immediately as they come off the field. There's just a lot of action coming from, a lot of energy. And I think you get that from his youthfulness. And it's also like these guys know them, have known them for, a long time. He's been around. He's been in this with this team since Mark

Trestman. I mean, he knows these guys before they were acquired. He was part of those evaluations. He's part of the development of Eddie Jackson. Like he's known a key mix, like he said since he's got here. Those connections help. And I think, like you've listened to some of the players, they like

having a young coach who has earned his way. 100%. And I think that means something to him. It may sound cheesy to some fans listening right now, but But I think these players actually believe what they're saying when they say that. Like it's real to them. Like they believe in them because we've seen him earn it every step of his way coming up as a quality control coach

until defensive coordinator or two defensive coordinator, like they see it and they believe in what he's saying. I remember a couple years ago before the Super Bowl, I was talking to Mike McDaniel, who at that point was the run game coordinator for the Niners. Mike McDaniel went to Yale and even played college football. play in the NFL. He was talking about the Niners staff. And he was saying that it comes from Kyle all the way down down because Kyle didn't play in the NFL. And when you don't have that background, you have to prove it every single day that you're going to make the game easier on your guys because that's how you earn respect. If you show every single day that you're invested in them

and that you're going to make their jobs easier and you're going to allow them to make money and you're going to forward their development, they'll respect you, even if you don't have that background. And it seems like he is that sort of guy. I love guys that have done that. Kevin Stefansky has that background where he went through all of these different staffs and just kind of worked his way up and up and up. And I think that gives you a really well-rounded

understanding of the game. And I think we intellectualize guys like Sean DeSyla. Right? Like he has a doctorate. Yeah, yeah. That we do that. But that energy and that fire and that I'm going to get in these guys. I'm really going to be somebody that pushes them.

And like, we need to play this certain way. It takes the intellectual apart. out of it and becomes a football coach. Yeah. And I think that we underrate that aspect of it too often with these brainiac type coaches and what we expect out of that. Well, you need that bravado. You do.

You really do. I do. I think I mentioned them just seconds ago. The Mark Trussman era is a perfect example where you had this, let's use the term brainiac coach who had his quirks, but you needed that bravado. You needed that gumption to get in guys' faces and giving the business a few times because that team that Mark Trussman had, and Sean Desai knows this.

You need to give some of those guys the business a few times. There's a lot of personnel that Hellies in that Mark Trisman era. There certainly were. But you have to take control. Like, you're the man in charge. That's how Sean DeSai, like, I think he's learned from that. And he's got such a range of influences. And it goes back to the Tristema era, too,

like working with John Hoke. Yeah. And some of those guys, guys from the Fox staffs, you know? Of course, fan jubes. and Donatello brought up, but he's got such a range of different influences, guys that have imparted knowledge at every step of the way, or every part of the defense from, you know, up front to outside linebacker, inside linebacker to the second there, even to safety.

He's so specific for him, those range of influences, they're going to turn into whatever the strong the side defense is because he's going to be a bit different than Vic Fangio, just like Brandon Staley's a bit different than Vic Fangio. Absolutely. similarities but different at the same time. But let's be honest, this is trying to catch the Brandon Staley wave. I don't know, and this, maybe I'm reading a little bit too much into it, and they do,

they have liked him in the building. I think it's easier to talk yourself into this in the post-brandin Staley world. They're trying to catch some more magic, I would have to assume, where you look at a Fangio disciple, kind of on the rise, it's a young coach, look at how it's just kind of sprinkled around the league. This is, I think, one of those examples of a team really trying to catch what's happening schematically around the rest of the NFL. It's the hot trend.

It's matching innovation with innovation. Yep. You know, it's, I hate to always link it to young guys, but that's just what it is, I think sometimes is Staley's a perfect example. You know, you got to adjust, adapt, or you die. You don't win, and that's the name of the game, isn't it? Like, and that's, I think Sean, you're right in saying this. He's from that same innovation mindset where if he doesn't have an answer, he's going to do

something to find an answer that's different than maybe Vic would do it. And I think, but that is 100% true. But this is, I think, a league-wide effort to kind of crack the Fangio code for the first time. It is how can we kind of crack that open and pour it out and see what's inside Vic Fangio's head? I think that's been a really difficult thing to do. I think people struggle to do that. And now I think that you see so many people and so many teams try to grab somebody from that, pluck someone off that tree and say, can we get a version of this? And I think the bears are trying to do that and I'm excited to see what it looks like. Yeah, I think it bodes well for a few certain players.

Eddie Jackson is the first person that comes to mind. It's like, I want him in that too high shell all the time playing how we played in 2018. He made an interception the other day. He got, where was it? It was kind of down the right seam, trying to recall it visually. But that was like this, like, that's the Eddie Jackson that we remember that we remember from 2018. The way he, you know, he's moving a lot before the snap to to not give things away.

and then just breaks on a ball. God, who was it thrown to? It was definitely Andy Dalton, but it was just one of those plays that you saw all the time, or at least the gambles that Eddie Jackson would take all the time in 2018 and more often than not be successful on it. So, like, that was to me, that was a couple days ago. All these days are blending together, my man.

We're at that stage. That was to me where I'm like, oh, my gosh, that is what the bears have been waiting for. that's what they're trying to unlock again a word from the press conference of Sean DeSai today like they need to unlock that again make him be your best playmaker again I think you're going to get that with Sean the side and they need that I mean this is and you look at this group and you look at the Rams last year and it's the comparison you have to keep making in your mind I know I'd do it all the time but it's not like they had 11 super high quality starters on paper before the season

Leonard Floyd was available guys yeah I mean this team didn't want him And Brandon Staley will tell you that. These are guys that maybe weren't as highly coveted as they were at the end of last season. And the bears, they have enough pieces. Maybe there's questions about the second corner or things like that. But at the same time, you still have Colomac. You still have any Jackson. You still have Roquant Smith.

You have enough queens on the chessboard to build a really good defense around this group, even if there are some concerns here or there. And they're going to need to be. Yeah. And you're going to point to certain guys like Jalen Johnson to step up. Yes. You've seen signs of that in camp. He's actually been really good, just in terms of recent observations.

A lot of ball production. I love him. I think he's going to be a really good player. I mean, I thought he was really good as a record last year. A lot of TBIUs, a couple of interceptions recently in camp, which is a point of emphasis for him instead of all the, like, past breakups are nice. But how about we catch some of those? Let's take the ball away. Let's take the ball away.

And it's another thing with Sean this. He's just the energy he brings, even something is some, like this takeaway bucket stuff, it's goofy. Let's be honest. So what is it? Where is it? So it's this blue bin. It's like a towel bin, you know? That's how it started.

And I was imagining like a painter bucket. So now I'm glad to know it's much bigger than that. So it's like we're like a laundry towel bin. Yeah, yeah. You know, like you would see around NFL locker rooms. And they brought this out there in the offseason program. And Sean Desai wants the guys to celebrate like every takeaway that they get. He wants there to be some excitement, some fire, some passions.

So these guys are dunking it in there. They're shooting it in there. They tried someone from the equipment staff actually made like a basketball version of this. They broke it during. I'm sure the first day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's how much they're into it. And like some of these things, you roll your eyes sometimes.

You know, coaches do things to excite their guys. But they love it. They scream for it when takeaways are made in practice. It's literally like roll out into the field so like practice kind of stops. And, like, guys are, you know. I'm really upset that I missed this. Yeah, I wasn't here how dare what it's happened. They're trying to dunk it between their legs, you know,

and, you know, Nagy loves that type of stuff, too, because he loves the back and forth that he gets from the defense and stuff like that. So, like, we didn't see any type of stuff like that with Chuck Bagano whatsoever. And with all due respect to Chuck Bagano, like, he was in charge of some really good defenses in the NFL. But, like, 35 years, 40 years into his coaching career, you know, it's like. You stick around for a reason. But, like, I think at this point with a lot of these players, they needed something new, fresh, maybe something young, you know, someone closer in age. And you're seeing guys really respond to what Sean Desai is saying, like, every single day.

That's what I love to hear. You're speaking my language now. Adam Johns, always good to talk to you, my friend. I really, really appreciate the time. It's good to spend some time with you in a coat closet. Anytime. There's like a TV behind us stored away here, too. But, like, storage closet, coat closet, whatever you can do.

Podcast studio. All right, bud. We'll talk to you later. Anytime. All right, guys, that's all we got for today. Sincerely appreciate the time from Nate and from Adam. Again, Nate will be with us again early next week as we started division previews. We will be back on Friday.

We're going to do a little something different. I'm going to wait to share it with you, but I'm really looking forward to. It's going to be a fun little twist. Get some other people from the athletic covering a couple different sports involved in the show in some little way here. Until then, please rate and review the podcast. on your podcast platform of choice. I sincerely appreciate that. Also, please subscribe to The Athletic.

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