The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Aaron Rodgers speaks out, potential DeAndre Hopkins landing spots, Jimmy G’s contract & more

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

Mike Sando and Randy Mueller talk about DeAndre Hopkins’ release, what’s going on with the Cardinals and potential landing spots for the WR. Then, they get into The Athletic’s exclusive interview with Aaron Rodgers on his final years in Green Bay. They also discuss Jimmy G’s contract, Tua Tagovailoa’s offseason workouts and much more. Follow Mike on Twitter: @SandoNFLFollow Randy on Twitter: @RandyMueller_Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube1:58 Cardinals release DeAndre Hopkins/potential landing spots20:31 Mike Tannenbaum’s comments on Russell Wilson/Sean Payton 25:36 Aaron Rodgers talks to The Athletic on final years in Green Bay37:24 Jimmy Garoppolo’s injury & contract waiver42:48 Tua Tagovailoa OTA passing video46:05 GM Notebook Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Before we jump in, I want to tell you about New York Times Audio, a new iOS app for New York Times new subscribers. It's got our show, plus all the other podcasts from the athletic, exclusive shows, narrated articles, and more. New York Times Audio, download it now at n.ytimes.com slash audio app. Welcome, everybody with the Football GM podcast. We are deep into, well, not really.

really deep into summer, but it kind of feels like it, doesn't it? Randy, we're recording this just as May is turning to June. We're just about to that time when people in the NFL have their toes in the sand, right? Yeah, a couple more weeks, I guess. A lot of teams are finishing up their mini camps, and most of the mandatory mini camps happen, what, that June 13, 14, 15 window. So we don't have a lot of time before then. So a couple more weeks of grinding. And then, yes, they have toes either up or in the sand, and they're actually going to get a month or so of R&R, including the players. Should be good. Including a couple podcast guys, maybe, too.

Hey, you never know. Mike Sand. Maybe we should introduce ourselves, Mike Sando here from the Athletic, along with Randy Mueller, the GM from the Athletic. And even though it is May turning to June here, and we're getting into some real dead period in the NFL, there's a lot going on. We've got a full GM, football GM podcast. lineup, DeAndre Hopkins releases where we're going to lead off, but there's a lot of other stuff

in here around the league, kind of some newsy nuggets and opportunities, I think, to bring, you know, leverage the GM's point of view. And we're going to do that today. But Randy, DeAndre Hopkins, you know, one of the things that I added on to our little notes at the bottom, but I'm going to say it off the top about this that I find kind of interesting is, remember when the Cardinals acquired DeAndre Hopkins a few years ago. And he signed a big extension. And it was billed as two years, $54.5 million.

And you go, wow, the receiver APY, $27 million, it really, you know, could be seen as setting some kind of new bar at the position. But isn't interesting how these things wind up coming out? When you look at it now, he didn't even get to the extension part.

Now, he got real money as the extension. He got a nice $27 million bonus. But I remember when they did that deal, I talked to someone in a front office, and I've got my notes here. He said, Hopkins deal isn't really a $28 million extension. It's like a five-year deal at $18.5. You have to assume it's a new contract. He's never going to see those two years anyway. It basically took them from 13 to 18 the next few years.

So now, three years later, it's funny. you look at this, he got $55 million over three years, which comes out to 18.3. It's exactly, isn't it interesting how the teams look at it that way, yet the extension can be valued as its own entity, right? But in the end, the team was looking at it like, no, that's not really what it is. We're not giving him $27 million a year. Right. And the angle of the team is happy to use is let the player beat his chest. Let the agent love what they're getting and sell You'll never see these numbers leaked out from the team side. It's always what's best for the player and really in this case his agent.

So it's never been more true than these days where the devil is in the details. And these deals all stand alone, like you said, each to the team, less about market, more about what you can get and the timing of it. And we'll see after two or three years in some cases who gets what. But, you know, really the cash and the payout in the first two or three years of these longer-term deals is really all you can bank on. And we will get into some of those details on some other deals, Jimmy Garapolo in the news in the last week or so for his some revelations about his deal. But let's stay on DeAndre Hopkins here for a minute. In releasing him, the Cardinals avoided 19 million plus in salary for 2023. They did let him kind of look around to see if there was a trade.

but that number was going to be tough for an acquiring team to give up something and then have to eat $19 million in the middle of May or June. That's a lot to be adding when you know they're probably going to cut them just from where they're at. So if you look at the Cardinals, they're already giving a $36 million option bonus this year to Kyler Murray. They're eating salaries for their coach they fired, their GM. So obviously they weren't interested in paying $19 million to Hopkins when they could avoid it. what do you think? I want to hit it from a few angles. I think number one would just be sort of what this means for Arizona. Yeah, I agree with you. I think the key in Arizona is if you can't help rebuild our culture, we're surely not going to pay you to be part of it. And I think you could

have made a case for Keeping Hopkins had there not been, oh, a little bit of intangible doubt, you know, I mean, he's never been a guy that's been a practice guy. There was some rumor that last year they were a little upset with him that he didn't finish the season, although he was fairly healthy, he could have played the last two games and didn't. When you're a new GM, when you're a new coach, like the Cardinals have going now, and you'll see this. Every deal like this is handled differently. My guess is the Buda Baker thing will be handled totally different. But in this case, the Hopkins deal was that he was not going to be part of the solution. So it was a matter of, you know, not if they were going to let him go. It was just when and how.

And like you said, they let him do a low shop and there's no way anybody's going to bite on that $19 million. I thought it was interesting in that they took all the salary cap hit this year because they released him before June 1. And so they have, I guess, almost $22 million in cap dead money that they're going to eat this year, which tells me that they know they're going to struggle this year. But they're freeing up their books. They're kind of clearing the decks to see what's available next year. And they wanted to eat it up as much as they could right now. Yeah, and before we get into your film work on what Hopkins has left in the tank and some thoughts on fits for him, which I think is an interesting part of the conversation, I am intrigued by Arizona because Kyler Murray is hurt. And then they added a bunch of picks next year in the draft.

Did a nice job getting some players or some picks there to build for the future. and they could be just shoot, they could be picking number one overall next year anyway, just on the way that their team is kind of set up. What do you think about that stuff? You never want to get too far ahead because who knows, maybe they'll surprise and win more games than you think. But they could be at the top of the draft with quarterbacks available, right?

I mean, what do you think? Well, I think we are getting the cart ahead of the horse a little bit, but I think if you look at it right now from 30,000 feet, Caleb Williams, the quarterback from USC, unless he just falls on his face, is probably going to be the first pick in next year's draft. And let's say they do struggle to win games in Arizona, part of the plan or not. I don't think, and I'll just start with Kyler. I don't want to beat Kyler up, but I don't know that Kyler Murray plays for them this year. I'll be honest.

He got hurt, what, December 2nd or something like that last year. I don't know exactly when he had the ACL surgery. But normally those wait a week or two for swelling to go down before they even have. surgery. So I think at best you're talking about him coming back Halloweenish. And I think that would depend where we were in the season, winning and loss record, how that works. You know, I don't know. But I'll say this, they have a lot of information to gather all year long to decide what and how they will use that first pick next year. And it's going to be a high pick and Mike, no matter what. More than likely, they can, if it's not the first pick, they can find a way

to get to the first pick because they're going to be in the top two or three probably at the end of the fall or this season. So I think their job this year is to gather as much information as they can. And they've been very positive, very upbeat about Kyler Murray and where he's at. From a work ethic standpoint, from a buying in standpoint, I get it. But I'm not sure I would need him to play per se. What I want to find out about Kyler Murray is, is he, first in is he last to leave, his leadership skills, his people skills around the building. I want to see if I want this guy to lead my team. I can see on tape the, the, uh, athleticism and the explosiveness that eventually he'll get back. I don't know that you'll have that back year one after

an ACL, but he'll get that back. But there's a lot to learn about Kyler Murray. And, and I hate to say it, but there's a chance that he never plays again for them, in my opinion. That's going out on the limb. get it. And I'm not saying that that's going to happen, but there's a chance that that happens. Because if they struggle and they're sitting there with a chance to draft a quarterback that they have consensus on that they all think is going to be the next coming, they're probably going to pick him. And I don't know what that means for Kyler Murray after that. So they've got a lot of information gathering. There be a lot of things to figure out there with his contract he signed and all of that. But it's just kind of an interesting organization that they took. I think they moved

up to take Josh Rosen in the top half of the first round, then quickly decided, you know, that, hey, we got to get out of this because we had the top pick. We can get Kyler Murray. And he, Murray was certainly a big upgrade over Rosen and showed some real flashes. But in the, you know, over the last couple of years, it's been a little disappointing. So now he does get to prove all of those areas off the field where he's been questioned. And the Cardinals fed into that with that contract clause, about homework clause and all that. But he gets a whole year with a new group of people to show them who he really is in the most important parts, which is through a tough rehab, right, in the building, supporting your teammates, learning the offense, watching

the film, they will have a lot of stuff they can probably take away from this year, no matter if he plays or not. Back to Hopkins, okay? So I believe he's played 19 of 34 games over the last two seasons, had a six-game performance enhancing drug suspension during that stretch, turns 31. next week, kind of at that point. Yeah. Career age-wise, where the cliff could be near.

I was kind of looking at some other receivers in that age range that were bigger guys, Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall. Both of them kind of had age 30, lull seasons and bounced back. Strong age 31, but they didn't have much left after that. They might have just had one or two more good years. So when you look at him as a player, never was going to be, you know, anchoring the a four-by-one relay team, right? He was never by wide receiver standard, just an absolute burner. But where do you see him as far as what he's got left in the tank? What can he offer?

Well, I think he's still a good player, but I think he has to be used in the right ways and have the right people around him to maximize where his skill set is. And you're right, he doesn't jump off the ball at the line of scrimmage. He doesn't run by people to make you defend him differently. He does, however, read coverages really well. He gets to open areas. He has elite catching radius. When people are around him, he catches in the crowd. The good news is he catches everything, even when people are around him. The bad news is he's always got people around him because he's not separating, right? He's not getting away from people. But he's proved that he can do that. He gets covered a lot. I do think, and I saw this on tape, he's got still really good body

control. He's got good feet. He can get in and out of routes pretty well. Just the suddenness, the ability to scare people isn't there. I think he needs to, and he's doing this, his game has kind of become a trickier double move game, you know, where he's got to set people up at nuances of route running. And he does a pretty good job of that. I think he's a good player. I just didn't see a special player, surely not one worth 19 million. My guess is, and you mentioned, others around him. You know, him and OBJ are six months apart. He's six months older than OBJ.

That contract that OBJ got with the Ravens of however you figure it is a one-year $15 million deal. Now, I know there's some voids and a bunch of fancy business involved with that. I think that's going to be a little bit of a hurdle that Hopkins is going to have to get over because I don't know that he'll get that. I think in this case, and I know it's crazy that OBJ is coming off a second ACL, but if healthy, OBJ has a little more upside athletically than where Hopkins would be, in my opinion. So that's something others will have to consider.

But I think the fit's going to matter. I think there's going to be a lot of interest. Obviously, the price is going to matter. But there's some, it's funny, there's some betting odds out there. And I don't know if you weighed in and saw any of that stuff. But it seems to be that there's a lot of interest in him. And I guarantee a lot of people are going to kick the tires. Yeah, and we'll get to that in terms of the fits.

I'm with you that the, to me, OBJ getting $15 million was higher than I was thinking at the time when it signed. I kind of perked up and went, oh, geez, that's pretty good for him. I thought he was maybe, I thought he was going to maybe get 10 or less, you know, just because rosters fill up, the injury concern, he's been somebody in recent years who's been a little bit more on reputation, right? The production hasn't been there consistently. He's had some flashes, but it just, he hasn't been what he was.

or close to it early in his career. So as a team signing him, I don't know. But I think Baltimore was really in such a deal with the Lamar Jackson situation. Right place, right time, baby. Right place, right time. And they bought, hey, they wouldn't. They bought him. They wanted to buy the name.

They wanted to buy the sizzle. Regardless of, of course, they wanted him to be a good player, but they were willing to overpay to say, we got OBJ more so than if they got somebody who was a no name and just as good right now, right? I think it served a purpose for them, but sometimes these deals, just like the Deshawn Watson deal made it harder initially for Baltimore to get done with Lamar, this OBJ deal on a smaller scale could make it harder, certainly did make it harder probably for the Cardinals to trade him and maybe eat some of the salary or however they could have done that. So it be interesting to see what he gets from his next team. I was kind of looking around.

I know you have some ideas. In fact, you've got a column posting on the athletes. I hear. I need to check this out. Rumor has it. Rumor has it. About some fits and these sorts of things. I guess the chiefs and bills were reportedly listed as teams that had engaged him in some discussions, but obviously couldn't get past that $19 million number. There's teams out there that have no receivers at Tennessee. There's teams out there to me like Denver who have overrated receivers and a new coach who might be able to make use of him.

what do you think? Yeah, I think those are good points and might be in the mix for his services if they can figure out the money part of it. I think the difference between him and OBJ, and you always talk about timing being everything, OBJ got signed the first part of April and they needed to have that happen quickly. And I think they'll be the first to tell you they as the Ravens will be the first to tell you they overpaid to get it. But they knew they'd have to get a quick decision and knock that out. I don't think that if I was going to be a free agent, I'd prefer to be one then. There was more money available than now because people have assigned what value they have.

Now, there may be a couple teams who free up some money and we're going to talk about later the June 1 designation list of players that might get waived that teams can push off accelerated portion of their cap charges. There may be some of those. but I thought, and again, I don't, I would not doubt Denver as kind of a silent player in this, because I do know this, Sean Payton does want to shake things up. He wants to prove to people that he is not beholden to anybody that's been there in the past. He doesn't have to keep a soul. The difference is, I think the intangibles that we've been rumored that are attached to Hopkins might be a little struggle to, to, to say.

in Denver, if I was Sean Peyton, I would want somebody that I knew was going to bust, bust his ass every day in practice, who's going to be out there come hell or high water. You just don't really want to bring a culture down with somebody who kind of picks his spots. And those are things that have kind of been attached to, you know, they'd have to take it into account if they were investigating. Yes, you definitely have to take them into account whether they're true or not. There's two places that jumped out to me. One, Detroit has cap space.

Detroit, in my opinion, has average type receivers. They have an offensive coordinator who is, in my mind, going to be a head coach soon, who is innovative in his schemes, not only as a play caller, but in design, in Ben Johnson. Yeah. And I think they've got everything they can. Now, they drafted a tight end. They traded Hawkinson last year, but they have a tight end. Jared Goff's game is kind of one that, for me, is between the numbers.

So it's a little bit like sometimes Lamar Jackson. It's over the middle. It's between the numbers. You want to shorten some throws if you can. And I think in Detroit, a guy like D'Andre Hopkins could serve as a really good security blanket for a guy like Jared Gough. Now, you've got to go back to the intangible thing again, because I don't know that Dan Campbell is going to be okay with not practicing. Just a different mentality. Dan came from the Parcells era of, I'm going to practice every day, tape it up, rub,

some dirt on it, let's go, we're going to go, and that may not fly there, but on the field for me, I thought he would be a great fit. But the other place that I came back with Mike after studying the tape and seeing what his skill set was, I think if you could fit him into a place that has a receiver or two that can stretch the defense, can take the top off places, and make defenses defend you differently, I think he creates havoc. Much like Kelsey does in Kansas, city when they have the speed guys going deep. I thought Miami, and I know they don't have cap room, but they're going to have some cap room because they've got a June 1 designation in Byron Jones.

They're going to get some money back. I thought Miami would be a great fit for D. Hopp. I really did. Those guys, Tyreek Hill, Waddle, those guys that can flat run by people will almost assuredly leave Hopkins single covered in a lot of ways. He might, he may not have to catch as much when he's covered, because he's, is he might not be covered if he throw him in the mix with those two fast guys. So I just thought that would be exciting to watch.

Yeah. I don't know if they even have an interest. I don't know if they can make the money work. But it would also be a security blanket for Tua who wants to get the ball out and shorten they want to shorten his throws. Again, D.Hop's like a tight end almost. He can be that Mike Giseki that they've had the last couple of years as a red zone threat. A lesser, it doesn't have to be a full-time guy because those.

fast guys are going to get the majority of the coverage and the attention. But just think about Hopkins in that mix. Moving the chains and decide how you're going to allocate your defense. Does that make any sense? I just thought it was a, it was sight, excite me and really give defenses a fit, I think. And to me, it's right in the Miami wheelhouse because the owner's always for the names, right? Oh, DeAndre, we got DeAndre Hopkins, you know, but it could make sense on the field, too, not just in the name.

Yeah. So that's going to be very interesting to watch. Yeah. Before we get to some of the other stuff, we mentioned Sean Payton, but something kind of caught my attention. Mike Tannenbaum's comments on Russell Wilson, okay? Mike Tannenbaum, long time NFL exec with the Jets. Excuse my snickering, by the way. I'm trying to take this in with a straight face. He started up the 33rd team, and he does some stuff for ESPN. And so before we get into some of the other stuff that's buzzing around Aaron Rogers' comments and some of the others,

I want to get to the Tanamon stuff because I've kind of been saying, you know, obviously you and I living in the Northwest have followed the Russell Wilson situation, kind of saw it coming that he might struggle in Denver and kind of have been saying that it'll be interesting to see, not just if Russell Wilson lasts for the long term in Denver, but I have had questions about whether he'll be the starter all season because Sean Payton is going to hold him accountable to a level. Russell Wilson's never been held accountable in front of the team probably too. And so we took note when Denver signed Jared Stidham as the number two.

There's an alternative now, somebody they could go to. So fast forward this week, and we have Mike Tannenbaum saying on ESPN that Wilson is, quote, not fighting for his legacy. He's fighting for his job. They will draft his replacement if he doesn't do everything Peyton says from day one. Peyton is the new sheriff in town and is beholden the no one, including Russell Wilson's guaranteed money. Now, these are strong, specific comments. And what's interesting about this is that Tannenbaum and Sean Payton are both Bill Parcell's guys.

So it was kind of seeing some likely alignment there so that Tannenbaum's not just, saying what Sean Payton might have told him, but he may be amplifying what he thinks and probably has a good feel for what Sean Payton is likely thinking, which to me just strengthens in my mind how vulnerable Wilson could be there in Denver, not in the distant future after the contract levels out. Everyone knows that. But early on, maybe earlier than even Wilson would suspect. What do you think? I like your sinister plots. I like where your conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theory stuff. I'm certain to get Mueller-esque. Very observant, esteemed connecting of dots. That's a, you must have been a reporter at some point in your life. Bingo, I think it's a great call. I really do.

And I'm with you. I don't think Mike would say these things without a little bit of information because you're right. They were very specific. I think Sean probably told them this. He said, I'll do what I can to re-energize Russell Wilson. I'll do everything. I'll do everything. I can to prop him up to get him back to where what you guys all thought he was. But at the end of the day, I'm not going down with Russell Wilson if he's not what everybody thought he might have been here. So you've said it probably more times than I have that it's not going to be Sean Payton's fault if the offense struggles and Russell Wilson plays bad. So I think the whole key to the whole thing for me was the amount of money they paid Stidim, which tells me they think they have a viable

alternative as well. He might have to keep Russell Wilson because of the contract, but he doesn't have to play him. And we've said that for forever here since he got it, is eventually when they have options, and I wasn't talking about Brett Rippin, people, you know, I'm talking about legitimate NFL options. And I think Stidim in most people's eyes is seen as a legitimate option right now. We started games last year in Vegas. beyond the first half of the season,

if Russell hasn't gotten things sorted out, I could see them doing just what you're saying. And I don't think Sean Peyton's worried about Russell Wilson's legacy at all. No, not at all. I think, in fact, I think that's nails on the chalkboard to him, any of that type of talk. Yes, no doubt about it.

He's going to be very forceful in that throughout the whole season. So that's going to be a fascinating place to watch. They can't help but be better. I mean, I think a lot of things just sort of went off the rails for them. Yeah, I mean, they had a head coach, let's face it, who was in the chair for the first time.

He had on the job training, and that always makes me nervous in the NFL, whether it's a GM or a head coach. You had better had some training before you get roped into one of these jobs because somebody wants to change the complexion of their franchise and you're the sexy pick. It wasn't right. He gave up his play calling after how long?

That's why I have a little bit of, and I know we're going to get to the jet stuff, I had a little bit of hesitation in that when the Jets have Super Bowl aspirations and plans already, they still have to run an offense run by Nathaniel Hackett who failed in Denver calling the plays. And that's the only time he's been a play caller. So there's still some connecting of dots there too. So I'm with you. Yeah.

Hey, there was another story this week. I wanted to hit on a couple of maybe interesting points within it. You know, Matt Schneidman, who covers the Packers for us, had a piece this week where Aaron Rogers called him back. So a big shock here that Aaron Rogers wanted to get the last word in on the Packers. He just couldn't help himself. I can see Randy, you're shaking your head here. Everybody might imagine you kind of had it on this one.

But there was a couple, there was a pretty big news revelation within the piece. I'm just curious your thoughts. According to Schneidman, Rogers agent David Dunn in 2021, this is after the team drafted, Jordan Love to potentially replace Aaron Rogers, famously ticking off Rogers. But the report said that David Dunn, the agent in 2021, asked the team to either trade Rogers or fire Packers' GM Brian Gutakunst, which, you know, we had the story a while back earlier this year that Russell Wilson had tried to give an ultimatum to the Seahawks ownership about Pete Carroll and their GM, John Schneider. Hey, me or them, that sort of a thing. and we have forever heard about trade demands or unhappiness,

but the idea of trade me or fire so-and-so. I don't recall hearing about that as much in the past in those terms, and maybe there are some things implied. I was just kind of thinking, I was wondering, is this sort of a new reality of the $50 million quarterback who, whether or not he's bigger than the team thinks he is, acts like he is, all the evidence thinks he is, Sometimes I resist that because there's always been big names and egos and power plays in football.

I mean, John Elway went at it with Dan Reeves. Dan Reeves drafted a quarterback in the first round when John Elway was inside his first 10 years. So there was a lot of stuff that went on it. There, many other places. Fran Targenden talked his way out of Minnesota. All kinds of things have happened. And the coach left. So I'm not saying everything's totally different.

But this is twice now possibly in the last year. year or two, that two quarterbacks who have been pretty highly regarded maybe have played this card. Trend? Yeah. I think, I don't know about a trend. I think it happens at times when players, and again, you're on to something I think with the $50 million quarterbacks for sure, but these guys, if you really break down what makes

them tick and how they're wired. I mean, is anybody going to make the case that Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers is very self-aware? No. Okay. Well, I'm just saying. That'd be their number one weakness, probably. Probably, you know, and so this is just more of that. Hey, I'm so good.

I'm doing this. I'm this. I'm that. You know, the social media stuff, the McAfee show, the all of the, it's all about me stuff. And so I think rather than a trend, it is too unique. personalities that are worried about legacy, no matter what they say, do think they are above the game, do think they are above each of their teams. It'll be interesting to see, I don't, no, could you imagine no team is going to do that? No team is going to fire a coach, at least in the

NFL, or a GM, because a player wants that to happen. I mean, it's just, that's suicide in the business world, right? I just don't think that's going to. to happen. But I guess maybe it's happened in other sports. Has this happened in the NBA? I don't know. The NBA seems to be the leader in this player empowerment, maybe because of the CBA being so loosely attached. But you tell me. Yeah. I think the reason it wouldn't come close to working in these two cases is that both Wilson and Rogers were at the tail end of their ten years there. Everyone could kind of see that these guys were, it was almost moves of desperation. Yeah. I think it would be interesting if a really top, one of these top young quarterbacks did.

If Joe Burrow wanted somebody fired? Joe Burrow, I mean, obviously Mahomes isn't going to ask Andy Reid to be out of there. But let's just say there was a problem with a lesser coach or something. I think you could see a team making a move on behalf of that maybe not directly answering, okay, we'll do it, you know, but maybe it just sort of ends up happening. because for some of those guys, you have to make the relationship work. So I just thought that was a little bit interesting. I remember, and you'll have to help me fill in some of these dots.

I remember because I think I was in Miami, or maybe I just left Miami, when LeBron, Chris Bosch, and Wade were gathered initially in Miami. And it wasn't a year or so into that. It wasn't going real good. And they went to Pat Riley wanting their expulsions. And I think, and I'm pretty sure this is true. Pat Riley gathered all the troops, including all of his players and everybody at one time and said, in so many words, here's the deal boys. And read them the riot act and said, this is not happening. You guys aren't running this place. I'm the president,

and I'm the sheriff. And this is the way it's going to be. And it shut it all down. But could you imagine if that was true and if that was what everybody wanted and they had acquiesce to that where they would be right now? Absolutely. And the Pat Riley was probably the perfect person to say that. Just given the authority and the respect. I mean, this is a guy who's won championships, you know, all the way through as an executive, you know, as a as a coach, had a successful run as a player as well. So yeah, he was the perfect guy to do that. I don't think we need to get too much into what Rogers said. I thought that was ridiculous talking about, you know, did Brian Gutakus text me more than I texted him? Yeah, but did I ghost him no? I mean, come on. This just feels like

junior high. Yeah, I thought it was very childish, very, I mean, I just think he won't let something go in anything that sheds even the slightest bit of bad light on him. He feels like he has to respond to. talk about, you know, just an ego of, come on and just take the high road. I know that's impossible for some people to do. Just take the high road and shut up and move on. But that's something that, gosh, I just thought, like you said, very childish. Just speaks volumes about how much attention these guys, you know, bring on themselves. And if they just turn the other cheek and walk away, I could just imagine.

And I spent, I guess, 10 years with Philip Rivers. You know, I spent a lifetime with Dave Craig. I spent a lot of time with these quarterbacks who, are you kidding me? They wouldn't even consider getting in a verbal battle like this at all with anybody. They just want to play the game, do their job, and be accountable. And the best ones I've ever been around, and I understand Aaron is a good player, but the best quarterbacks I've ever been around, Mike, are the ones that when they didn't do it right, and they didn't play well, guess what?

They said it. They admitted it. And there was no doubt in the locker room that they were holding themselves accountable. That's the struggle I have with some of these guys with no self-awareness. They just struggle to be accountable. And again, I only care about the locker room. I wanted them to be accountable to their teammates. So if I'm one of those guys, I'm just kind of rolling my eyes a little bit as a teammate and just say, come on.

Let's just play. Let's let it go. You know, what was such a refreshing kind of counter to this? story about the Jets current quarterback. There was a great story my friend and former colleague at ESPN. Rich Simeini wrote about Joe Namath, you know, the greatest quarterback in Jets history. And just how he now at age 80s, twice as old as Rogers. And he's just in a great spot, you know, completely content, completely mature,

no access to grind, just a grandfather. You know, he's been humbled. He had a drinking problem. obviously everybody knows that terrible thing that happened on the air where, you know, with the Susie Colber incident, I mean, he was humbled. And it just by all accounts just seems to be really in a great, in a great spot. And so it made me go back because Namath at the end of his career went to the Rams. And if you remember, the Rams had a really good team in the 70s.

They just kept falling short. In fact, Chuck Knox was the coach. They were a great team. They'd win. They'd go 12 and 2 back then in the 14 game. schedule, and then they would meet a demise in the playoffs sometimes. So there was a point there when Namath with his terrible knees and had gone through a tough season with the Jets, they brought him in to the Rams.

And it was funny, a little bit similar to this Jets situation because the Rams had a good team except at quarterback. And Namus, former offensive coordinator with the Jets, Kenny Meyer, who used to know, because he followed Chuck Knox to Seattle, was with the Rams. And so this was going to be a little bit of a reunion. And so they brought Joe Namath into the Rams. He was 34, but his knees were like being 64 or 74. He just had terrible knees at that stage of his career.

He started the first four games of the season, went two and two, had a tough game against the Bears, and they benched him and never looked back. He never played again. And so, of course, Namath, I went back. I actually went back, Randy, because of the way Rogers is conducting himself, Namath took complete accountability for everything. I was just reading his quotes after that game. What happened to me doesn't make much difference.

The Bears won the game. It's all that matters. I played poorly. We lost. I never play well when we lose. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's just awesome. Love them.

Yeah, there was also, I was kind of Googling around, and I found, like, he, when he was about to join the Rams and was at sort of a similar stage, leaving the Jets, he'd let him to the championship and then things had gotten little sideways. He was on the Johnny Carson show. And if this stuff's on YouTube, it was amazing. Funny, humble, light. I mean, he was joking around. It was really awesome.

But the moral of the story was that, you know, it didn't turn out well for him there. And I think Aaron Rogers physically has way more left than Joe Ameth did at that point. So I'm not saying that he's going to go two and two and be benched. But just a little reminder that, you know, it doesn't always live up to what you think it might. It's been a great offseason for the Jets. And I think they're going to be a lot better with Rogers. But there's a, when the expectations get so high, it can be hard to live up to him. No doubt.

And I'm anxious to see if they do stumble. And they will during the season. These seasons are long. Everybody stumbles. I'd like to know kind of how is he going to handle that? Yeah. How will he be accountable at all if he doesn't play good one particular game? Yeah. Time will tell. Again, I'm not rooting against him. I think you're right. I think he's a really good player. And I think they've, it's been in a good offseason for the Jets. So I'm not trying to reign on their grade. But I am about accountability, man. And I struggle with with guys who who point fingers elsewhere. Yeah. So we'll be watching that one. Hey, at least the Jets are relevant. It's going to be a fun season. We'll see.

Them and the Giants. So that's great for New York. And it's great for NFL, really. Hey, one of the other stories that kind of came up in the last week since last time we talked was the situation with Jimmy Garoppolo and the Raiders. This offseason, obviously, the Raiders cut Derek Carr, got nothing in return. They lost Jared Stidham, the Broncos, did not get Tom Brady, did not get Aaron Rogers. And so they probably, you know, settled in some ways for Jimmy Garapolo. I liked at that point, once they were, once they had made the move on car and didn't get Brady

Rogers. To me, Garopolo made a lot of sense for Josh McDaniels because if you're going to stick with McDaniels, to me, Garapolo gives him a chance to do it the McDaniels way, which is a whole separate conversation about whether the New England this or that can be exported. But if you're going to try it, Groplo is a great soldier for you in the locker room. But then the news came out that he had failed his physical with the Raiders. And so they had reworked the contract so the signing bonus became a base salary basically protecting the team. If that foot that he hurt last season with the 49ers prevents him from playing or complicates the situation, they can kind of get out of it.

Business as usual, Randy, or a concerning situation? Well, I think a player who signs a waiver on a particularly body part is nothing new. I don't think it's normal. I've done hundreds, probably thousands, to be honest with. contracts. I had it come up maybe three or four times in all the contracts I've done where a player would say, hey, I'm going to wave my knee. So if my knee is the thing that keeps me from playing, you're not going to have to pay me for that. So it does give the team out. I don't think it's, some people think it's really common. Maybe I'm just, was lucky in all of my years and I did

contracts for a lot of years. I just haven't run across it. I understand the mechanics of it. I know how it would work. Most agents aren't really jumping up and down to give you a player's body part as a waiver against paying him, you know. So it's a hard one. I think in this world, the fact that he failed the physical, that he had surgery subsequently, that it's going to heal for most people are saying that. I think Jimmy's going to be their quarterback. I really do. I think they know and way more than we know. The part that I kind of took issue with was wasn't the waiver. It's just that there's no safety net.

That really was my issue is I understand they've made a decision to move on from car last year. They moved on from Stidham. They brought in Garoppolo, who's the soldier and the flag carrier for Josh McDaniel. But what if, just what if he's not right? Where do they go from there? And this is a big season for them. So I just didn't, you know, I know Marcus, who's the, it's not Marcus,

Marriota now. Who is it? Who's their backup in Vegas now? It's a Well, they drafted the guy. They drafted the guy in like the fourth round. Yeah, but still, okay, I mean, God bless him, but that guy's not going to make a difference. I don't even know who he is if he's a fourth round rookie. My point is they just didn't give themselves

any, any, any, you know what they did. I know, they brought in Brian Hoyer, another New England guy. They brought in Hoyer and so he's not going to get you through more than three games. No, I just, I just, I don't like the message of, hey, we're all or nothing on Jimmy G when the biggest problem most teams would have with Jimmy G is his durability. And maybe they do get the waiver to walk away from the toe or foot or whatever it is. It still doesn't solve the issue of Jimmy Gropola's been hurt often and durability is an

issue. So that's the part I had with it kind of being, you know, a struggle isn't the waiver part. It's just that I don't know if we have anything solved. If he gets hurt, we're going to play Brian Hoyer. That's what we're going to do. Well, he's played a full season one time. Who? Brian Hoy. Gropolo at one time. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, no. I mean, Brian Hoyer, you're not going to, he's not going to do anything except help you finish the game. If there's one game, I can't imagine that you'd have to start him at this stage of his career. So he's going to build the offense. Would it shock you if we're sitting here week 10 or 11 and the Raiders are struggling to get lined up and sort it out? And it's just, it's risky. That's all.

I don't think I could have come and took that risk if my safety net was just Brian Hoyer. Do you know the last time Brian Hoyer won to start what year it was? I think I've seen this stat. I'm not going to guess because I'm going to be off, but it's a long time. Just 2016 was Chicago. So that'd be like John Fox era maybe? But I think the win-loss record is even more alarming than that. Well, yeah, since 2016, he's one and nine maybe.

Yeah. He did have a little run there with Houston. good defense, Cleveland, where he had a good record over a few year period, but it was a lot of, you know, it was a lot of defense helping him out there. So last time I checked, are the Raiders good on defense? They're going to have to be. They're going to have to sort it out some way fast. I will say this.

It's the second year, the defense coordinator that they got from the Giants helped me out, Patrick. Yeah, Graham. Yeah, Patrick Graham. They're the second year under that system, so they ought to be better. That's for sure. So time will tell. Yeah, we'll see.

and they did draft for it. So we'll see how that works out. Okay, hey, one little thing wasn't really a headline, but I sent this video to you when I was going through some social media feeds. Just a great way to spend time, by the way, just going through social media feeds. It's become a thing now, hasn't it? It is. It is.

It's draft-day social media, whether it's, they're looking for content. It is all about content. I think it's interesting. And it's risky, too. It is risky for these teams to put out a lot of this information, especially the draft scenarios, the videos in the draft room, because if you don't match it upright with what's being said or done, it can make your people not look good. Oh, we almost had a stigma on that.

When I was on the road last week, Randy sent me some clip one of the teams. The teams are producing these post-draft things that make everyone look like the draft fell just magically their way. Masterclass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I watched it and I was like, wait, was this when the team was on the clock? It turned out it wasn't. But I was like, we were concerned initially.

But yeah, so I'm flipping through. And I saw a quick clip. This was from a reporter who was out at Dolphins practice. And it showed to a Tungovaloa out there throwing the ball around. And I got to say, Randy, I mean, he looked like he was, I don't know how many pounds heavier, but it wasn't good weight. It really looked like he was. really heavy through the legs, the midsection.

And look, I mean, I'm not wearing a half shirt at the beach. I can tell you that. So I'm not saying compared to, you know, you or me. But for what he has looked like and what an NFL quarterback looks like, I was a little concerned. And then I said, okay, Sando, you, you're not, no one's getting you for your evaluations of the eye test on the players. But what did the say to you, Randy?

You've been out to a lot of practice. If you saw, you've seen Two a play. What do you see on that little Zapruder film of practice? Well, it was enough to be a little concerning. We've seen other guys do this. We saw Russell Wilson do it in Seattle. We're a year or two there. He was trying to put on some mass,

trying to put on weight to help him be more durable. I don't know what Toa is doing. And I don't know if that's the case. And we all know that video or TV, what do they say TV puts 10 pounds on you? You know? What a social media put on you. Yeah, I don't know if we could equate what we saw to that.

But I'm with you. He looked heavy. Maybe he's trying to figure out a way to stay healthy. But unless he's going to start wearing a bubble, you know, with those bubble things they put on the helmets, maybe he's going to wear that around Miami all day. That's the only thing that I would worry about. I can't wait to see camp, Randy. Yeah, that's a hard one for me, too. I agree.

Yeah, this could, yeah, it may be nothing. We're in the middle of May. when you do bulk up, you know, you put on some fat pounds and then you've shaped that up, you know, as you get into, do different types of training and it'll all look great. But I just saw that and thought, huh, if you had, if they'd had a different number on that and said, what NFL quarterback is? I guess I'd be saying, okay, left-handed, I could narrow it down. But, man, that was a little bit interesting for me.

What do you want to hit next? Want to get in the notebook? We can. We talked a little bit about the June 1 stuff, and that was the one note. what I had in a notebook was that magic of June 1. I think it used to seem to me anyway, Mike, that it used to get a lot more run, especially in the media. And I did a little bit of research on it.

And last year, only two guys were designated and were released after that June 1 marker. This year, it seems like there's five have been kind of earmarked for that. I know Zeke Elliott in Dallas, J.J. Watt in Arizona, Byron Jones in Miami. these are guys that have big contracts. And the way it works is for our listeners is a team can designate a release on a player like that. They have to carry a salary through June 2nd. And then any portion that's accelerated into future years does just that. The other end of the spectrum is, like Arizona, they waived Hopkins sooner.

So all the money counted this year. These are cases where you can spread out your cap count and your dead money into push what's excess out beyond 23 into 24. And so that's what happens. And a lot of teams give a lot of thought to doing this. It's a philosophical decision. Sometimes it's determined by where your team is in a team build from a team building standpoint. What do we expect? Like we talked about Arizona, they don't have a lot of expectations. So let's make it, you know, something that we can, you know, use it up, use up our cap space this year. You know, I don't know. I just thought it was a note that We're going to see more of this over the next few days as we approach June 1.

Yeah. You know, teams are going to push off some cap county into next year for the most part. And you can, you know, if you create the space for yourself now, you can use it if you need to sign a player or something. Yeah. Or you, and then if you don't use it, you can push it over to the next year anyway. There's, you know, you can carry over unused space if you'd like to do that. And we see teams do that regularly. help their flexibility in the future, but you certainly want to have as much as you can now in some

cases because you're going to, who knows what's going to happen with your roster, keep your options open. Some of these teams, I'm sure, that could be in for DeAndre Hopkins have been waiting for this, right? Yes, no doubt. We mentioned Miami as a team that has no cap space now. I think they have less than $2 million, but once Joan goes on the wire, they're going to free up 13 plus. And yeah, they'll use some of that to sign their rookies, but it gives them something like you said to get through and continue their team build a little bit. Okay, anything else in the notebook?

No, that kind of covers it. We've hit on a lot of GM-type topics during the pod, so I'm happy to say that the GM notebook hasn't been pilfered, but we together worked our way through it. We did. Another good week, another good show. And if you want to check out more of Randy Mueller's work, you can find it at The Athletic.

You can find him on Twitter at Randy Mueller underscore for Randy, for everybody here at The Athletic. I am Mike Sando. At Sando NFL on Twitter, also on The Athletic. We'll talk to you next week. This was the Athletic Football Show.