The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Assessing the deals in the first week of NFL free agency

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

Mike Sando and former GM Randy Mueller recap a busy first week of NFL free agency. They discuss the delay in the Aaron Rodgers trade before they assess the deals that have stood out the most so far. Then, they talk about the Bears’ offseason plan, the veteran trade market and much more. Follow Mike on Twitter: @SandoNFLFollow Randy on Twitter: @RandyMueller_Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube4:09 Aaron Rodgers and the trade delay18:34 Assessing the deals20:36 Jessie Bates21:49 Mike McGlinchey24:51 Tremaine Edmunds27:48 Dalvin Tomlinson28:50 Backup QB deals42:25 Orlando Brown Jr. deal with Bengals/Jonah Williams situation 46:58 Bears busy week54:30 Veteran trades1:02:30 Lamar Jackson’s futureToday's show is brought to you by...BetterHelp: Visit betterhelp.com/Mays today to get 10% off your first monthAtlassian: For projects impossible alone, visit www.atlassian.comMorgan & Morgan: For more information on Morgan & Morgan services, go to forthepeople.com/Mays or dial 1(800) POUND-LAW from your cell phone Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome, everybody, to the Football GM podcast here on the Athletic Football Show, Mike Sandoz, senior writer of the athletic, along with the GM, Randy Mueller. And Randy, your Sea Dragons. Big winners last night. I look at the headline. I'm all excited. Here's the headline that I saw when I was Googling the results.

Seattle Sea Dragons fend off self-sabotage, hand Houston up next. XFL loss. The Sea Dragons, three and two. Great team bio-accounts, but they're minus 10 turnover differentials. So it sounds like a very stress-free environment watching this obviously. I mean, you must

have a talent of the team to be three and two and minus 10, but I'm just glad to get the win last night. We might not have anyone in the GM chair today. Yeah, it was one of those three-hour root canals in the dental chair. And it's crazy because it's been like that for five

straight weeks. I would say this, Mike, we're pretty battle tested. We find ways to make up fights and battles and crazy things when it shouldn't even be that close. So last night was no, no different at all than the first four games. So hopefully we can continue to overcome our own ineptness. It's crazy. The numbers guys say that stuff evens out, the turnovers, right? If you have a team that has a whole feast on them one year or one week, it'll even out. So hopefully that's for you because I looked, as you know, Randy, before the show, I looked in the last whatever 20 years of NFL at all the teams that were minus 10 or worse through five games. None of them had a winning record.

So you must have done something right. You must have some talent on the Sea Dragons at least. Well, we do have a good team. If we can get ourselves a little better and avoid the friendly fire, I think we'll be okay. Yeah, that's great. Well, tons of discussed here today. You know, a few weeks ago, we teased to the legendary night when Evil Caneval hung out. in my apartment, which of course life has been a big letdown since then. But the point here is that

we teased that. We didn't get to it right away. We finally got to it last week. I think last week we teased to the fact that Randy was going to be diving into the college quarterbacks in the draft, which you have, right? You looked at him. I did. I dove into him heavily and I enjoyed it. And at some point here, maybe we can share with the audience. Absolutely. But with free agency, in the news, I think we're going to push back that discussion. Maybe it'll be next week. It'll be when we get to it. But I, shoot, I could just do that now. I'm excited to see that. So hang with us. We'll get to that with Randy. And in the meantime, we got free agency stuff all over the place. So let's dive in, shall we? Yeah, unbelievable. I feel like we've been in free agency for about two or three weeks now. And it's really been less than a week, right?

Now the legalized tampering period is really, let's get right to it. I mean, that's free agency, right? I mean, that's when deals. And really, it's been going on since the Indy Combine. So this is, that's why it seems like it's been longer. The window of free agents have had to make commitments is longer than people think. That's for sure. So we're going to run through a bunch of these.

Randy and I, but especially Randy, have flagged some of the deals. Actually, in our little shared Google. Doc here today. I pasted about 200 of the deals in and Randy's flagged a bunch of those. So we're going to get to a ton of these today, Javon Hargrave, Jawan Taylor, Tremaine Edmonds, Mike McGlensy, a bunch of others, a bunch of quarterback deals. We're going to dive into that. We've got, you know, items looking at, I think we want to talk about the Bears. I think that's a great one with them trading out of the first spot and really being active. So we'll get Randy's and my initial thoughts on that. We'll talk about free agency in general.

Lamar Jackson's in the news, but not really in the news, but off the top, Randy, let's deal and digest with what we saw this week as the world turns with Aaron Rogers. How about that, huh? Aaron Rogers. Unbelievable. To me, it's more of the same, Mike. I mean, it's crazy. This just keeps going on and going on, and we thought we were going to get some closure to it. All we did was get the door wider.

Yeah. I guess there's not as many options as we might have thought. but it's still not done. It seems like a foregone conclusion where he's going. But there's still some negotiating to happen here. There is. So he lays it out regarding the Packers, quote, they want to move on and now so do I.

How about that? He put it on them and then said, yeah, of course. Yeah, of course now. So he explains that the Packers seem totally open to him returning or whatever Rogers wanted to do. But then somehow they had a change of heart that they didn't really tell him about directly. So he says, hey, look, I'm not a victim here, no ill will.

But then he basically goes down a path casting himself as a victim who probably should have ill will if all of these things are true. So I thought that, you know, there were a lot of sort of visceral reactions to this, especially in the media, because Rogers attacked the media. I mean, he blamed the media for, you know, coming up with a narrative that he didn't agree with. I didn't really want to engage him too much on that and get into the mud on what of the media was fair or not fair. But I'm just curious, Randy, what your sort of analysis reactionist to what we saw and where we're going. Yeah, I think it was a microcosm of the last couple years with the relationship between Aaron and the Packers. I mean, it's been a love-hate deal. It's been a pointing fingers but not really pointing fingers.

It's been a game, a shell game of who to blame, who would say this, who wouldn't say this. And I think thus, you understand, if you just listen to this interview, you understand why we are where we are now. I think the backers are just tired of it. I mean, I've said this a year ago, that this would have been a hard job. Brian Guticus, their GM, has had to bite his lip for over a year now. Obviously, they stay and have taken the high road. They had hoped Aaron would take the high road. But as we know, some of these long-term relationships,

relationships ain't in badly. I mean, I know I was in San Diego at the time when Ladanian Tomlinson moved on. That kind of got acrimonious, was a little ugly. We saw here in Seattle last year when Bobby Wagner left, there was kind of a he said, she said, or he didn't say this, she said this, you know, when he left. So it was bound to happen. There's going to be some egos involved. There's going to be a blame game. It was clear to me that the minute Aaron started talking that you knew, where this was going in his interview. You knew when he started to thank all the equipment guys and all the trainers and everybody else, you knew where it was going. But in only the fashion that he's been accustomed to, he did it on his time frame. Now we'll see. I think it's a unique situation in that I couldn't think of in my 35 years in the league or so, a trade that has happened with the chronology of these decisions being made when they have been. I mean, let's face it, We all think he's going to go to the Jets. I get it.

I'm in agreement with that. But they don't have a compensation package yet. Do we think that the contract has been settled? Because really, that may equate to what gets swapped compensation-wise as well. If Green Bay said, hey, we're going to pay this, chances are they're going to get more compensation coming back from the Jets. There may be some players involved. So there's still a lot of things that have to be worked out. I just think it's so unique that now Rogers, which I think we all anticipated, he would take the jet side.

And now he's saying, hey, let's just do right by me. Our relationship is this as he backhanded slapped him 30 seconds earlier. Now he wants him to do right by him. So there's some holier than thou thoughts in his processing of all this information. And I guess that's what you get with Aaron Rogers at this point. He's a weird duck. I don't think there's any really way to put it other than that. Not many would take this route.

Not many would take this, as he says, I just want to be transparent. That's fine. I'm not sure full transparency is always the high road. It's a road. But I think filters on both sides might make this thing happen. And if people did swallow their ego a little bit, it could probably happen sooner. Yeah. I joked early in the week that I'm sure whatever he does, you know, based on

Roger's past behavior. I'm sure he's looking to have less money, less leverage, less control, and is really prioritizing the team flexibility of the Jets. It was a little bit of wink, wink, a little bit of a joke, but it was funny. After I was kind of going back and forth on Twitter with that, somebody from a team texted me and said that they had heard maybe he was going to be doing a more of a friendlier deal for the Jets. We'll see about that.

Do you think this happens fast? Do you think it comes together fast and is easy to do, or do you think there's a big dance and a delay or anything like that? like that. Maybe there's reasons to get it done sooner? Well, I think the only urgency for me would be the draft. If there's some kind of a draft pick package or something involved in this year's draft, then that's a month away. I think different leverage points now dictate timing of it all. I don't know if it's even possible, but if I was a Packers, I'd be trying to draw somebody else into the deal.

I'd be trying to get a Houston or somebody who is unsettled at their quarterback position to even make a call to help me a little bit, to, you know, Let's don't forget, Aaron Rogers does not have a no trade clause. He's going. And I understand that team would have to have quite a bit of cap room to take him. But if the Packers are willing to pay some of it to make it happen, that could go a long ways toward the cap number that the new team will be receiving. So I don't know if it's going to happen quickly.

I think this, though, Mike, and I think the compensation package is going to have to be a hybrid. Because we don't still know how long he's going to play, or at least he hasn't said publicly. And as we all know, he's 100% transparent. So he would have told us if he was going to play three years. You know, I think he would have anyway. Doesn't he effectively have a no trade clause, though? So think of it this way. Let's just say a Houston did come in and he says, I ain't going there.

No, I only want to go to the Jets. So effectively then he would only go to the Jets, right? No team is going to even enter those waters without knowing he'd want to come there or no. Well, it all depends on your cap availability and how long you wanted to carry that money. You know, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, he's not, an acquiring team isn't going to then have a fight with him over whether he wants to be there. I think it has to be somewhere he wants to go, which is now the Jets.

So I would, I don't know, I guess my question is, could you really get another team involved? And how would that go? Here's what I thought, for the last week, I thought that the Jets were the only team in play. And I thought for a while there that he may have been just pumping the brakes, hoping another team out West, gotten the middle. got in the mix because I think he's always wanted to end up West at some point. There's just not enough teams out this way to make the right, you know, step. So I thought that all along that the Jets were kind of the, this was an arranged marriage, maybe not perfect for at least Aaron Rogers.

I don't know that he trusts fully that the Jets are going to put the next foot forward to do what they need to do to get to the next level. And, you know, we'll see. That's why I always thought a place like Tennessee would have. been a spot for him because I think he can trust that group. They've been there in the past. It just seemed to make sense. And then when they came out a couple weeks ago and said they were all in on Tanny Hill, I thought, well, are they really or not? So there's a team with a giant number on a quarterback. I don't know. Could they get out of, yeah. Yeah, could they get out of that

deal to make a run at Aaron Rogers? If they do, I think they have to move on from Derek Henry as well, because I think he hamstrings him into a style of offense that probably isn't Rogers. Well, and as we know, they were shopping him correctly. Correct. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that is very interesting. I didn't, you know, I know that Rogers comes, you know, there's a fatigue factor. And I understand from Green's Bay standpoint being done with it. I really do. I think that, like you said, these relationships can go on to a point where we're done. I mean, even though he's a great player, all of that, it's just we're not doing this anymore. I get that. But I'm just surprised. I mean, Aaron Rogers makes 28, 29 teams better at quarterback.

And a bunch of those by a lot. Why wouldn't we have more interest from, you know, Raiders, of San Francisco? Some of these teams out West like you're talking about that really could be a quarterback away from doing a whole hell of a lot more than they've done recently. Wouldn't that, it's just a little bit bizarre to me. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think there is really very little doubt that his skills are still there. I'll be honest, I think it's all the other three ring circus that comes with him. Nobody wants to put their organization on blast every Tuesday for a podcast. And that's really essentially what the Packers have been. And this is all from the eyes of one guy. So when you build a team, the personalities matter. The leadership really matters. And I think that has turned some people off. I mean, you know, the Rogers camp can say we're just being transparent. We're doing this and that. Well, I got news for you.

Our job is to build the best team we can. And if we determine as GMs or head coaches or decision makers that we don't want that style of leadership, then we're going to move on. And I think that's what's happened in a lot of places in the NFL. I know. I just can't think of situations where a team got really good quarterback play, maybe elite quarterback play. And, you know, the guy's personality just wrecked it. we couldn't do it. It's just those things don't go. The issue in Denver with what's going on Russell Wilson was how he played. I mean, all that other stuff about the office and all of that,

that's fine if he's playing well. And so to me, just, I don't know if it's fine, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but it's, it's not a deal breaker, right? I mean, there's been all kinds of egos and things in the league for a long time. Right. So to me, you know, from a football standpoint, a team like the Jets last season, bottom five on offense, really good on defense. I went back and just looked at teams that fit that profile, and none of them do anything. There's 39 of them that were basically in that bucket, and just about all of them missed the playoffs. Only a few of them even won a single playoff game. But if you take the Jets where they were at, or even close to where they were at defensively last season,

give them a middle of the pack offense, you're a 75% playoff team. You have a 25% chance to go to the championship round. You go to the Super Bowl 10% of the time. And if Rogers were to come there and have an even better offense to be in the top 10 offensively, with that defense, you're a 95% playoff team. You're in the Super Bowl 25% of the time, Randy. This just seems like a no-brainer for me if I'm the death, especially if where I'm at, I've been to Donald. I've had Mark Sanchez. I've had all of these guys.

And now my coach and my GM are a little bit to the point where, hey, if they have a losing year, maybe they're out of there. To me, this is a no-brainer for them to do. Would you agree? Yeah, I agree totally. It makes every bit of sense for the Jets and for all the reasons you just gave. And I think there's one issue that doesn't get a lot of run because he's been dismissed by so many media outlets and really by Jets fans is Zach Wilson. Any other quarterback in the league that's going to come in there, not any, but a lot of them that were available. There would be a cloud based on what are we going to do with Zach Wilson?

What are you guys going to do with him if I come in there? This guy was a second pick in a draft only two years ago. And there's a lot of people in the NFL that still think he's a pretty good prospect. Not there yet, but a prospect. The Aaron Rogers fit totally renders that discussion useless. You don't need to. You don't need to hear from Zach Wilson. He's in the background.

Nobody cares what he says if we have Aaron Rogers. So that part of this deal makes a lot of sense to me, too, from the jet standpoint. They can put that one to rest and really put him on ice for another year or two. So whereas if you bring in Derek Carr or more of a middling guy, it would be saying something about Zach Wilson. This doesn't because Rogers is in such an exalted company. Correct. I think he's at the top of the heap and then the Zach Wilson Cloud, really, even if he's on the team, he's not a factor. I just think if you're a Derek Carr or if you're a, you know, I don't know who else, Andy Dalton or even Jimmy G.

coming in there, there's going to be a doubt at some point here that Zach might get the job back. or if one of those guys got hurt and Zach played good, do we stay with Zach now or do we give it back to a Jimmy G? Now if Rogers gets hurt, it doesn't matter for how long he's going to always have the job and there's never going to be any doubt. So I'm just saying that discussion is gone if we get Aaron Rogers. Yep, I can't see a downside for the Jeff's giving their options. So hopefully for everybody, it gets done quickly. And then we can, I mean, how many McAfee shows are we till the. draft. That's probably not when you take into account because it's a lot more chances for

Well, the closer we get to the draft, I think the leverage then stays in the Jets camp, or at least transfers to the Jets camp because they'll just say, we'll give you next year's picks then. They'll use their picks, whatever they were going to give. They'll just use that this year as more tools to build their team. So I think it really benefits Green Bay to get it done sooner than later. The problem is, like I said, is what kind of conditions are you going to put on the picks because there's going to be conditions based on how long he plays, the success of the Jets, maybe the playtime percentage, maybe even sign in an extension, you know, that suits him for a longer term.

These are all factors that will have to be discussed in the compensative package. Absolutely. That brings into play future picks because you can't answer those questions until he plays with the team. Right. Yep. That'll be interesting. All right.

That's funny. That's free agency, but that's not even a free agent move yet. Nothing's even happened in that and we've already had tons to talk about. Let's go through some of the deals that have gotten done. And just so people can kind of visualize what we're doing here, as I alluded to off the top, I pasted about 200 of these deals in our little shared Google Doc here, starting out with at the top, I guess it would be Derek Carr, 37.5 million per year, going down through Garapolo, Hargrave, Juan Taylor, all the way down.

And then Randy has flagged some of these. talk about, don't worry, we're not going to talk about all 200 on the show. Our producer, Marissa, would leave us and everybody else would be asleep by the end of it. But there are some really exciting ones to get to. And I'll just hand it over, Randy, which ones have you sort of flagged? I see here you've put a few, maybe into some buckets, some of the ones, some good ones, questionable, and then some other ones. I think there's a lot of angles to hit these free agent deals on. And one in particular for me is the quality of the deal. based on the priority of that position.

So I see deals, you know, and we'll set aside the quarterbacks. They're always going to get paid. But offensive tackles, we see three of those in the top 10 deals that have been done. We really saw Tremaine Edmonds go from Buffalo to Chicago. My sense is that that 18 million that the bears are paying him is going to include some snaps as a pass rusher. Because he's a big kid that actually is suited best frame-wise probably to play outside. I thought that from when I saw him at Virginia Tech. you know, when he came out of college.

And he is a young guy, too. So I think you're seeing guys that get paid are tackles, are maybe pass rushers, and a couple defensive linemen, big guys, Draymont Jones goes to Seattle, Hargrave, goes to San Francisco. These are big trenchmen difference-making bodies that are really hard to find. And there's a reason these guys get drafted really high every year. And so I think it does reflect that. The first one that I come to that I would struggle with as you went down this list of average per year,

being how you sorted it, really was the Jesse Bates deal for Atlanta. There's a safety that Atlanta signed. He was a good player in Cincinnati. But for me, he plays a non-impact position. He plays a safety spot that I don't think you can control a game from that spot. I just don't know if I would ever commit that kind of money to him. the Falcons have made a habit of this already in that, you know, they're drafting tight ends, they're trading for tight ends, they're paying safeties, some interior offensive linemen,

they're paying pretty good. So there's just a different team building philosophy going on in Atlanta that strikes me. But that's where I started with these deals make sense as long as it's a position of, you know, high priority and can make a difference on Sundays. And I don't know how you feel about that, but that's how I started. look at these deals. Yeah, absolutely. So let's go through the four you have at the top, Javon Hargrave, Joanne Taylor to the Chiefs as a tackle. Tremaine Edmonds to the Bears and Mike McGlensy to the Broncos. These are ones you like because of the fit, because of the

positional value. How did you see, you know, what jumps out to you? Well, I'll just talk about, for example, McGlinchie, and I'm going to say this. I went to Notre Dame the year McGlinchie came out. I had him rated as kind of a later first round pick. He's, been a better player than where I thought he would be for 49ers. He's been a right tackle. Really, that's what he is in the NFL. But when I first saw this sign and I said, oh, gosh, I don't know. Is he really worth that? I went back and dipped in some film. I really was wrong. I think he's a really good player. There's a couple things that he doesn't do that you could nitpick on. Maybe he's not quite as have sand in his butt. He's not quite as much of an anchor player against bull rushes,

which tends to collapse the pocket a little bit. And we've seen some. some of that with the quarterback play, especially with Jimmy G. That side of the line gets caved in a little bit and it affects Jimmy G. But for the most part, this guy is really athletic. He can bend. He's really good in the run game on getting to the second level and combo and on to linebackers. I was impressed with the film that I saw and I don't see any really setback with

McGlinchie at all. And I think he's still young enough. He's in his 20s that he'll probably play this four or five years. So for me, Denver making that free agent signing along with Ben Parenthood. powers, the guard from Baltimore. Again, I'm not one for paying guards, but I understand they're trying to change culture there. They're trying to do some things to fortify a front and build it a little different with a shorter quarterback. So they've got to firm up the interior of that offensive line, much like they did in New Orleans when Drew Breeze was the quarterback. Like, they built their

offensive front different. They could not take pressure up the gut because the guy's six foot tall. Same with Russell Wilson. They can't really afford to let the pocket collapse. interior. And so they're kind of, I can see some of the same moves being made. For me, the comparison of McGlinchie was with Ramsec that the Saints picked in the first round of right tackle from Wisconsin. Really good player. I think McGlinchie is in that same boat as far as a player goes. And I thought the Broncos did a really good job of identifying him with the 49ers because Trent Williams makes all the money there. There's no way the 49ers could pay McGlinchie the 17 million as well. just too much money to commit to one position.

So I think they jumped out of the box, got that deal done early, maybe overpaid slightly to get it, but it made sense. And I like where Denver's gone with these first few days of free agency. That idea of McGlinchie on one side in Trent Williams and hitter will get to something a little bit similar in a couple minutes because I want to talk about the Bengals situation with signing Orlando Brown and then having a tackle there who was hoping to probably get a deal at some point. but that's an interesting eval to me on McClintche because I think the, you know, the general media feel is probably that he wouldn't be as good as the Saints tackle or,

and I'm not saying you're saying he's exactly as good, but you're putting them in the same bucket. So that's encouraging for Denver. I think they do need to do upgrade that offensive line, whether it's Russell Wilson or anybody else. So it's a great place to start. But nice parallel there with Sean Payton. You had flagged Tremaine Edmonds here, too, to the Bears. We will talk about the Bears a little bit more later. On the surface, you wouldn't say that that's necessarily the same level of premium position as a tackle or a really big guy who can move on defense.

Why do you have that one up here too? Well, they just let Rokane Smith go during the season, right? The inside linebacker that they drafted high and did not decide to pay him at the end of the day. Now they add another inside linebacker. But I think the skill set that Edmonds brings, and again, I'm kind of guessing here because I haven't read their hurt. this anywhere. But for my money, I think that this third down rusher, this kid could be really good. And it's an area where Buffalo didn't use him much at. But I thought this when he came out of Virginia Tech that I thought, this guy is more built to play outside. And you might get some nickel rush stuff out of him as well.

That's what I think the bears are going to do to him. And that's how I think they could justify paying him the amount of money they did. His deal is, what, 18 million? That's high for an inside linebacker. You would think you'd have to have a little more in some other area of his skills to make that move worth it. The other thing is he's a young guy. I think he's only like 24 or 25 now. This guy was 19 or 20 when he came out of college because he came out as a redshirt sophomore when he came out of Virginia Tech. So he's really young. He's got a big upside still depending on the scheme and how they use him.

So to me that made some sense. And again, on the surface at an inside linebacker position, and it wouldn't make a lot of sense. But I think there's enough reason here to be really fired up with your Bears fans. What struck me about that was your head coach, Matt Ere Fluse, came into the league, spent his first nine years in the league coaching linebackers. So for him to have a strong opinion on Roquan Smith and Tremaine Edmonds,

that's telling to me, right? Because they're not signing of any linebacker that the head coach isn't really totally in on, whereas if he was an offensive play caller, he might just say, yeah, get us somebody to help the defense, right? he wouldn't have as strong of an opinion necessarily on a linebacker. So that is somebody that really needs to succeed there in Chicago because of who the head coach is, getting that player for his defense when he had another guy there

that some people thought was good. So that one needs to hit. And I would guess the odds are probably pretty good that it will hit. They can make that hit probably. I think he was kind of a forgotten guy because he was injured a little bit this year with Buffalo, but he's a guy that I don't think gets enough run around the league. because I think he is one of the better players on defense in the league. So I think he's equivalent to a Fred Warner in San Francisco with maybe more upside because he's younger.

And I think can bring a little edge game that most of these inside guys don't have. I'm sure you're right. Matt Eberfuss probably had a giant grade on this guy coming out of Virginia Tech and loved him when he was coaching with the Colts. So it makes sense to me. Yep. Okay. Your utter questionable one, you had Dalvin Tomlinson on there for the Brow. rounds. Well, and my only question is that is you're getting a run defender. That's what you're

getting. I don't think you're going to get much pass rush at all. I guess they probably just figure they need a bigger body, but that's a pretty expensive price to pay for a bigger body that is not a rusher of any kind. So 14 million bucks really for most guys, most teams might consider him a nose. And so I think he's limited maybe to first and second down. Maybe I'm a little bit. Maybe I'm a little wrong there, but I don't ever see Dalvin Tomlinson being a third down sub-packaged guy, and usually those are the ones that get paid.

I think this is a team that got tired of getting run on, and this is their reaction to it, right? Sometimes you say, hey, we couldn't stop the run, fix it. What are we doing? Right? Maybe it's a little bit of an overreaction, but they say we're not going to have that happen to us again. I get it. Okay, so you circled a bunch of these quarterback deals and not, they're not, these are mostly, I guess these are almost all backup quarterback deals. Let's go through the ones

like it or what do you think? Well, I just thought a bunch of these guys were really interesting because we're finding out and they're all unique in that where they went, I really like, actually. I like Jared Stidham going to Denver. I think that's a great get for Denver. I don't know what's going to happen with Russell Wilson, but I think Jared Stidham can play a little bit. This is a big upgrade over Brett Rippen as the backup quarterback. I'm sure Brett Rippen is a great kid and all that. I don't know that he's an NFL quarterback. I think. Stidham might be an NFL quarterback. So this does give them some security against one, Russell Wilson, not being what he used to be or two, getting injured.

So I like the move. I think it'll put a little heat on Russell as well. That was so interesting to me because remember last year when the Raiders benched Derek Carr, Stidham came in and lit up the 49ers. I mean, it had a great game. No doubt. If you had that type of a thing happened last year when Russell missed a game, it becomes interesting if the Russell's not playing well. So I agree. I like that one. Let's go through some of the others.

Well, one was Baker Mayfield that I thought he had found his home in L.A. to be honest with you, I really did. They must have said, we can't pay any money. So he goes to Tampa, one-year deal, $4 million. I don't know the background behind why that made sense. Obviously Tampa's looking for a quarterback. I get that part. But I just sense in the exit of players out of L.A. And you know me, Mike, I've never been a tanking guy ever. it just seems to me like the Rams are kind of taking a, you know, a route of, yeah, let's do what we can,

but we'll be back in 2024 in making our team building decisions. Maybe that's me. I don't know. No, no, you know what this feels like is a great contrast with the Saints? Because, right, the Saints always get criticized by, you know, a lot of times it's media criticism, but, hey, why do you keep kicking the can down the road, just trying to be in the mix and competitive? You should reset. And then we have a conversation like, well, that's not.

not really how it works in the NFL. You don't just say we're going to suck this year, right, for the most part. But the Rams are a little bit, the Rams have been sort of that team that has taken a little bit of an unorthodox approach, right? They were, you know, the way they were trading picks or unloading salaries or unloading salaries, kind of making drastic moves, right? And they got the payoff. They won the Super Bowl. So if they hadn't, people would be saying they're a cautionary tale. They won it. We can still debate what it was a smart thing to do. They won the Super Bowl. So no one, they're going to win the argument.

But it doesn't mean that necessarily that's the way it's going to work for everybody. So I'm sort of with you. I think this will be an interesting situation where Sean McVey, I thought it was all you could do to keep coaching, right? I mean, he was really on the fence. He wants to come back for that type of year. Maybe they can overcome it. That'll be a fascinating thing to me to sort of see where they finish, right?

And then you have this older quarterback that you're triggering $60 million of guarantees with Stafford, Matthew Stafford, who. who's having trouble staying healthy, but behind that line. So that's a little bit of a weird thing too. No, the dynamics are weird. And maybe it's just me, but I always come back to this with Sean McVeigh. And I'm sure he's a great guy and a great, I know he's a great coach. But there's always a little sense of arrogance here in that there's nobody else in the league

would be willing to do this and still walk around and stick our chest out. You know, you're cheapishly going through this because you're worried about getting fired for one thing. Well, he's not. They're not. It's almost like they have a license to do whatever they want. and can be untraditional in regard to team building. Yeah, maybe that Super Bowl ring buys you that a little bit, right?

Well, no doubt. No doubt it does. When you trade or let people go like Ramsey, who you gave, what, multiple first-round picks for? And he was there, what, three or four years? Yeah. And I know they won a Super Bowl, but that would be questioned by a lot of people. It's not questioned nor as much ever questioned out of the Rams decision. makers. Just interesting. Jalen Ramsey, yeah, three and a half years with that team.

And they got a third round pick in return. Got a third round pick, which they need the draft pick. So some of these other ones we've got here, Sam Darnold, Drew Locke, Jacoby Brissette. There's a bunch of them here. What else you got? Well, I love the Minshu going to Indianapolis one. I thought he would get paid a little money. He only got three and a half million to go to the Colts. I think he's a great fit for what Shane Steichen wants to do there. Obviously, he comes from Philly. So he's going to know. Shane. He's going to know what they want to do offensively. I thought that was a cool get. And you know, I've always been a Mike White fan. I think Mike White is a quarterback that could play in the NFL as a

starter and function with a good team. I thought him going to Miami was a great get for Miami. I'll be honest. They get now security against Tua. I think he's a fairly good size upgrade over Teddy Bridgewater. So I think it's a good get for Miami. The Sam Darnold of the 49ers one was interesting to me. Because that commitment this early in free agency, there's got to be something there that we don't know. Because that room is full now, obviously with Lance, with Purdy, and now with Darnold. I asked myself, what was he told to make him feel so good about going in there with these two young kids? Is there medical information we don't know? Is there something with Trey Lance that they may move on from him?

is purdy not going to be right? I don't know, but that room's a little crowded for me with young quarterbacks. Does that make any sense? Yeah, one year, four and a half million, you're right. He's not a big enough prospect to where you feel like for sure someone's imperiled, but you kind of feel like somebody could be. Yeah, I don't know. Right.

And I just, the timing of it maybe is what was so peculiar to me in that the first couple days of free agency, he commits to going there? where they got two young guys already that they're trying to sort out. I know he's a California kid and it's coming home, but think of it from this standpoint if you were Sam Darnold or his agent. If I was advising Sam Darnold,

I might be able to say this to make it fit for San Francisco. Hey, look, where you go is everything for a quarterback. Unless you're just an unbelievable talent who's going to lift up your franchise no matter what, where you go determines your career. And Sam Darnold, you've been to a couple places where it was less than ideal.

It just wasn't going to work out for you, given bad coaching situations or bad personnel or both. What you need right now is to take a deep breath. And let's get you with someone who's quarterbacks always seem to do better than expected and where you might have a chance to play, but you're not going to be counted on to play.

Maybe it's a, maybe at worst, it's a reset year for you, Sam, and you go there and you get in this system and maybe, who knows, maybe there's a coach leaving the staff to become a head coach next year, like how always happens to the 49ers. And he says, hey, Sam Darnold showed us a lot. Let's bring them in and now it's $8 million a year or something like that. Or maybe he gets a run down the stretch because of injuries.

And he's, shoot, Brock Purdy did well. I know you really like him as a player. And I'm not saying Sam Donald's the same. But maybe they finished the year six and two with Sam Darnold. That maybe is better than Sam Darnold just going to the next place where he's going to get on the field in week one or week three. No doubt. Valid points. I remember when I was a youngster in the Seahawks organization, Chuck Knox used to say, whatever you want in life, you've got to win to get it, whether it's more money, more notoriety, more security. Winning matters. And maybe that's like you said. It's valid point. Maybe Sam Darnold's tired of losing. Maybe he's tired of being places that are in disarray. I'm going to go to the 49ers. There's a good chance they're going to be in the playoffs. I'm going to ride this out. If I get to play three or four. games, it sets me up for some big payday coming up. So Mike White interests me because he's going to the Dolphins who are 49ers East, right,

with Mike McDaniel running at similar offense, some pretty good talent there now, I think. They've got some decent talent. And you have a quarterback in Tua, who's a little bit like Jimmy Garoppolo was, right? They kind of like him when he plays, and yet he's going to miss games. So Mike White will see if they're built up enough in Miami. I don't think they're San Francisco yet by any means. But maybe Mike White gets to play there and has a Brock Purdy type run. Oh, I don't doubt it.

Again, I probably value Mike more than most because I see the skill set that is really hard to find. And I also see some instincts and anticipation in his game that are really hard to find as well. And I also think the Jets offense was a mess last year. So I don't blame him. We saw him get pummeled in a couple games where he left the game more than once, injured and came back. So I know the kid's tough. I just like, I think for the reasons you just mentioned, that Miami is well suited for a guy like Mike White to come in and fill in for Tua and give them an option even beyond.

Because as we know, I don't think they've committed long term to Tua yet. Mike just might be a little more than a backup quarterback for them. I know. That 50-year option blocking in the next year is nothing. I mean, that doesn't make him any more or less tradable. It might make him more tradable to a hit if he were to play. So no doubt. The thing you had to, before we get into the Bengals situation with Orlando Brown that I wanted to get to and promised we would,

I noticed when I put all these 200 deals in here that you had put some yellow highlighting on a few of them. A couple were the Philly running backs. They re-signed Boston Scott. They add Rashad Penny. You had put in yellow the newly signed Houston receiver, Noah Brown. And then also you had put in yellow the Raiders resigning tackle, Germain, a luminaur. A luminar. I'm a good

typer. I'm not always a good pronouncer, so I'm happy, though I think I got that pretty close. You did? I think you hit it right on. And the reason I highlighted these names and deals that are further down the list than what we had talked about is because I wanted to make this point. When decision makers and GMs

are signing players at this point for Richard Penny a million three, you know, Boston Scott, 2 million. Noah Brown, 2.5 million. These are depth signings that free you up in the draft next month. So you're going to see a ton of these guys get signed and they're not going to be for giant money deals. But I always wanted, and I think there's a lot of GMs that adhere to this same philosophy. I want options come draft day. I don't want to have to fill draft slots or depth chart slots

based on need. And so you're going to see a ton of signings. And if I sign a Noah Brown, I don't have to draft a receiver in the fourth round or the fifth round. I can take the best player. If I sign a Rashad Penny or a Boston Scott, I know the Eagles don't necessarily have to draft a running back. So I want to check some of these boxes before we get to the college draft so then I can pick players based on best available players. And as you know, there are a lot of teams who adhere to filling out a depth chart when they draft. I think what that leaves you, and this is just my personal philosophy, it leaves you a nice looking depth chart, but you've bypassed a bunch of really good players to fill out the depth on your team.

And I don't think you can never get ahead doing that. You end up with lesser players. For example, a specific example would be in the fourth round, we're going to pick a corner because we really need one. And that conversation happens in an NFL building. When I'm looking at the board saying, wait a second, we got a linebacker up here in a second round that we've spent a whole year evaluating, stacking, and valid. valuing and we're going to bypass him for a corner because we need a fourth or fifth corner.

I don't want to do that in a draft. I want to have those fourth or fifth corner boxes checked with a legitimate option at the right value price-wise. And I want to be able to draft that linebacker that we have in the second round in the fourth round. That's to me how you find really good players. And that's how you get players that were drafted mid-draft that actually become pro bowlers. because somebody saw something they really liked. And you couldn't draft them because we're filling out depth charts as a decision maker.

So I hope that makes sense, Mike. But that's what I see this next week or two in free agency. A lot of these deals are, you'll never hear about them. These are late round pick replacements in my mind for a decent money. And they could be younger ascending players that just haven't got a great opportunity somewhere else. Yeah. You want to make decisions for the right reasons.

on draft day. And so you remove that need component so that need doesn't dictate too much. Because I can't tell you how many times you've seen that fourth round corner get taken. And then it fills a box on draft day. And then he's cut. You know, by the time you get to the season. And that linebacker that was there that you had in the second round goes to the Buffalo

bills and becomes a, you know, a pro bowler two years later. You know, so it's a testament to the conviction of your evaluations. And some people aren't convicted enough to make the confident pick that, hey, we had this guy in a second round. How can we pass on him? We're in round five. Come on. Let's go. Let's make some, make the process give it some integrity.

And a lot of times that doesn't happen. People would be shocked. Yeah. I'm curious if you like the Bengals signing of Orlando Brown. I thought I was laughing because the way the deal is structured is kind of interesting. He's going to get $30 million this weekend. And then he has low base salaries the rest of the deal. But I was kind of chuckling as their incumbent left tackle, Jonah Williams is going into the final year of his rookie deal as a first round pick.

He has a fifth year option salary in 2023 of 12.6 million. This team could be paying $45 million this year of cash to its starting tackles. which is a little bit of an anomaly. It doesn't mean that that's what they're committed to in the future. But that certainly got my attention. I know it got Jonah Williams' attention, too, because he's requesting a trade through his agent. This is one that's interesting to me,

because the Bengals are traditionally not a huge spend at the top of the market team in free agency. They've done a really nice job in recent years, kind of filling with some mid-free agents that have really helped them become a top contending team. Just curious what you think of that edition. what it says about Jonah Williams, would they trade Jonah Williams? Is it easy to move them to the right side? Their defensive, their offensive coordinator said let the combine, according to our reporters, Jay Morrison and Paul Denner,

had put up a quote saying, ah, it'd be too hard to move them to the other side. So interesting, right? Maybe that was an opportunity that not everybody saw coming a month ago and suddenly is in your lap. What do you think? Just for clarification, Jonah Williams is the first round pick from a few years ago, right? Yeah, yeah. So, General Williams is going into the final year of his rookie contract, and they did exercise the fifth year option on him. So he has a $12.6 million salary. Then he's a free agent. So they would probably- I know who he is. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same guy. And here's my response to your question. He hasn't been good enough, Mike. In fact, he's got the quarterback killed more times than I care to watch. So I totally understand the move to Orlando Brown. I think it's a it's a functional move of, hey, we're just right and react. into what we see. Joe Burrow got hit more than anybody we know the last couple years. It's been awful. So I don't really care if it hurts his feelings or not. He needs to play better. And I bet you right now they'd be happy to trade him if he wants to trade if they can find anything for him. Now, if he moves him

to the right side, you're going to get another year out of him. But I think this hastens the exit for Jonah Williams. Whether somebody else is going to pay for that, I got news for you. Everybody watches tape. So I don't know. That, that, you know, the same thing that we saw. as a weakness for the Bengals is going to be a weakness for somebody else. Now, he happens to play a position that's a premium. That's hard to find. But I just don't think the play has been good enough there for the Bengals, and I think they know it. And this is their response to it.

Do you like Orlando Brown? I like him for what they want to do. Orlando Brown is this. He's that seven foot center that's still seven feet in the fourth quarter. Yeah. Orlando Brown is still 335 pounds in the fourth quarter with arms that go, you know, beyond you and I together, and he's a long route to get around him to get to Joe Burrow. He understands the angles.

Is he the fleetest of foot? No. Is he the most consistent? No. But they're going to want to run the ball a little better there. This guy will cover up defenders, especially on the second level, based on size. And he's up this game. And the kid wants to play, left tackle.

I get it. I'm fine with Orlando Brown and the money that they've paid him, being that the bingles have struggled up front for so long. and they've still been successful. So I just think they're trying to fill a need once and for all and stop talking about our offensive line. That's what they're saying to me. And it's a statement.

By the way, he would like to thank you for the 335 pound characterization. I just called up on Prophable Reference. They get them listed at 363, but he saw him 68. So it's right. He does appreciate that. He's a very slim looking athlete. You know,

we just want to compliment Orlando. Maybe the extra 40 pounds is the money in his wallet right now after you got 30 million. Well, you just said it's going to be 30 million. He's going to make 30 million next week. Yeah. So that is a big statement maybe to just have this big mountain of a man over there. Yeah.

Here you go, Joe Burrell, right? And then they can worry about doing a deal for him. Who knows when that comes. But certainly that's a statement move for them. And he's unmistakable when you see the investment of mine. You know which one is Orlando Brown. So. Yep.

All right. Let's transition into the Chicago Bears. Love it. The Monsters of the Midway. So far, they have traded the number one pick to Carolina. So they're now picking ninth instead of first. They've been busy in free agency. We mentioned Tremaine Edmonds.

Nate Davis, a guard is getting $10 million a year. DeMarcus Walker, defensive end, $7 million a year. T.J. Edwards, linebacker, six and a half. Donta Foreman, running back. Three million. Philip Walker, quarterback. Andrew Billings, Travis Homer, Robert Tunyon.

It's a lot of additions. Some of them are at the bottom of the scale, but what do you think? I love it. I'll be honest with you. I don't know Ryan Poles. I've met him a couple times. I love the conviction that he's showing here

to his evaluations and to the plan. I have a hard time when guys get up to the plate and they look for a walk. Ryan Poles is not stepping up to the plate without taking his full cuts. So he's going to rebuild this team. they need quantity. They need help at a lot of different areas.

And the good thing for him is they positioned it to where they got a low cap room. And they're spending it. And we look at the average per deal of all the guys you mentioned. There's only three or four of them that are giant money. Yeah. There's a bunch of these $2 million, $2.5 million, $3 million. Those are, again, draft picks that he does not have to draft now. And I'm sure those contracts have some upside as well.

So I like that. Obviously, Tramade Edmonds was the big get. you know, Walker, like you said. That's funny. I was reading it off Philip Walker. Wait, that's PJ Walker. You had him in the XFL. I know you like him too.

So you like him as a backup quarterback there? I think he fits skill set wise with exactly the way they want to play. I think he'll be a really good backup for Justin Fields. He's very athletic. He's going to make things happen inside and out of the pocket. You'll get a kick out of this. This was discussed in the Sea Dragons locker room before the game last night. Because as you know, most of us,

were with Houston and the roughnecks and that's where PJ was. He was our quarterback in the last iteration of the XFL. So we talked about this contract and we were all really happy that he got paid. I think his agent's one of the most hardworking dudes in the business. I'm so happy that he gets his little portion of this as well. But if anybody that knows PJ Walker knows what kind of a human being he is, he's outstanding. And he's got leadership and he's come up the right way. There's no forgetting about where he's been either in his mind.

And so I think it's good. But even set the personal stuff aside, I'm happy for PJ. But that's another example of they don't have to go draft a quarterback now in the fourth or fifth round. They really don't. PJ will be able to fill that for the right amount of money. So I like what Ryan Poles has done. I don't think they're done yet. I think they're going to look for some more bargains.

And again, he's going to set himself up, just like he did with this draft day trade now going from one to nine. And that's a whole other discussion. He got him some more tools to use to fill up this roster with some impact. players going still picking inside the top 10. So I like really on all fronts what he's done. Yeah, it's pretty good. And the timing of the deal with the number one pick, I thought it might, I thought it felt a little early at the time, but at the same time, you did have a veteran player involved in DJ Moore. Did you think that, did you have any issue with how it was pulled off or, you know, trying to wait and play poker, that sort of a thing? We don't know all the details of

what else they could have done. Or was it just real valuable for him to, hey, you know what, we can get good return. We can get it now. Now we know what? offseason looks like. I know how hard it is to trade down, Mike, because I've done it for many years and struck out. I've been lucky enough to do it a time or two, but when you get a taker, you need to strike while the iron's hot. And I think that's what he did. My guess is his criteria was I don't want to fall out of the top 10. And I wouldn't have either. He'll get a really good player at nine, probably somebody in his top five or six on his board. So look at all the things he gets with that now. It tells me that their conviction with just,

Justin Fields is solid. They're not interested in taking a quarterback, at least at the top. And somebody else probably is. So I have no problem with that. I think it makes sense for them to make the move now. So now they can plan for it. And they'll plan these other picks kind of where they want to spend those with what happens in free agency the next month.

You know, Randy, I know you've looked at the quarterbacks in college draft. You just basically, I think, told us that you don't think there's one the bear should be taking, number one, at the expense of their guys. I don't know. I don't think I agree with that, but that's a good tease into when we get around it. There might be one. There might be one. Okay. It might be one. Okay. So when I looked at the deal, them trading down from one than I, I looked at all of the other deals recently when somebody moved out of the number one spot. This one was actually pretty similar to when the Titans moved down from the first pick all the way to 15. Very similar in that that deal like this one returned to the team moving down, in this case Chicago. a first and a third round pick in the following year. Those are nice to have, right? Randy, as you're ensuring yourself or you want to be able to have flexibility. Chicago also gets a second in the year after that.

So the Titans did not get a second three years down the road. Do you like DJ Moore as a receiver? Because that's kind of the thing that muddies it a little bit. Sometimes the players, you know, that means one thing to one side as compared to the editor, whereas a pick is a pick. You think that's a good addition for them. I think it's a really good addition because it's a position of obviously very much need for them.

And eliminates having to take a receiver in round two or three. That's what I would equate DJ Moore too. Now, let me just say this. To the other side of this trade, I understand why Carolina is doing it as well. So I'm not saying that I don't like it for both sides. I think the thing about the Carolina angle is that part of their reasoning for making it now, and this may sound goofy, but part of the. reason I think they made it now is so nobody else could. And that's a valuable card to have in your

pocket to plan ahead, knowing that nobody else can do this now. And I'm sure they know what they want to do with the pick. You wouldn't do this without a specific player in mind, in my opinion. But let's just say there was some doubt. Now they have plenty of time to do it because no one's going to jump the gun in front of them. So I think it's good for them as well. Yep, absolutely. It's interesting. It has to be a good feeling for both of those teams to know what they're doing and not have just a bunch of uncertainty and we're all over the place and your stomach's turning over. As long as you get good value. Right. You know. As long as it's fair. It's a fair deal. No one's going to criticize the compensation going

either way, I don't think. Yeah. Yeah. So all right. We'll see what they do with it. We'll see what Chicago does to come out of this thing. Let's see what else we got here, Randy. I had the general thoughts and free agency. I think we've hit the general thoughts on free agency. We have. And we've hit the GM notebook as well because I think it's been a whole podcast on GM notebook stuff, to be honest with you. All of this is the kind of stuff that, frankly, I miss about not being somewhere in the NFL right now. I love this multitasking time that GMs have. In this day and age, it's awesome because you've got a million things going. And some guys really shine when the lights are brightest, when there is chaos, others go hide.

and that's why I give a lot of kudos to a guy like Ryan Poles and some of these other guys that aren't afraid to step out and make deals. Yep. So I know what I wanted to hit on a couple of these. You know, a couple of these veteran moves, veteran trades, right? I think it was very interesting that I thought, shoot, the start of free agency, we're seeing a bunch of linebackers and defense. Yeah, there's defensive linemen and they're big guys,

but they're a lot of 280 pounders. They're defensive tackles as much as the ends. You're not seeing the best players aren't the best players at the most premium positions aren't on the market, right? And that's not necessarily a new thing in free agency. But I felt like it's more pronounced now. I felt like I've been feeling this in recent years, but it was like week three in free agency by day three now. We're seeing long snappers signed, all kinds of things very early. But I do think it's interesting that some of these moves come across since blockbuster trade,

Darren Waller goes to the Giants and then you go, yeah, it's for a third rounder. Blockbuster trade, Jalen Ramsey, goes to the Dolphins. Yeah, it's for a third rounder. Stefan Gilmore goes to the Cowboys. Yeah, it's for a fifth rounder. Johnny Smith was a huge free agent signing

by New England two years ago. They're getting a seventh round pick for him to unload the salary. So that in itself, the concept of that is interesting to me. These are all named players. They're not getting a ton. in return. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. And the second part is I would just like to talk about some of those trades and just some of those guys. Well, I do think this is a newer element

that is tossed into the NFL and tossed around in the NFL these days because there are, there is salary implications that are tied to all these moves that you make. Or they're really players that have either worn out a welcome somewhere or you want to bail on a deal to or from where depending on where it's going. So these weren't always in play, these kind of deals. So I agree with you, the name might be bigger than, say, the compensation going the other way, but I think they're still good players. But in Waller's case, for example, there's a guy that's been hurt.

He didn't have a very good year last year. The production was down. You can say for whatever reasons, but the fact is, he didn't produce. And so you see him bailing or them bailing on him. Yeah. I wouldn't doubt if something happened with a Hunter Renfro as well. down the road here if they didn't bail on on that deal that was signed recently. Jalen Ramsey's, we know, is in the last year of his deal. So he wanted a new deal. The Rams didn't do it. So he's

moving on as well. Or he's nearing the end of his deal. I should say that. If it's not one, it's no more than two. They've not touched his deal at all in their recurving their cap, readjusting their salary cap team building stuff. So he goes on his original deal that he signed with them. So I think all of these deals are part of it now, and they're done for specific fits on the acquiring team, Waller to the Giants. Makes sense for them if he's healthy. Jalen Ramsey to Miami, makes sense for them if it's the old Jalen Ramsey. He didn't have very good year this year either. So I think these deals might be made for more of what a player was than what he is right now. And that's why you see the value, like you mentioned, not being what you would think. It doesn't really

equate to a blockbuster deal per se. Yeah, Ramsey was a little bit further along in his deal, and I understand where the Rams are at. We talked about that. The Waller one's interesting to me. The Raiders are interesting to me because before Josh McDaniel's first year, they re-signed Derek Carr. We knew it was kind of a phony deal,

so I won't count that the same. But they paid Darren Waller and Hunter Renfro before the coach had even had them. And then they're sideways enough now that we're talking about getting rid of him. And the Waller thing was just weird. I mean, I don't know if you saw this. He was recently married. Josh McDaniels had mentioned that he was married, getting to get married at the Combine,

which sort of became a news story in Las Vegas. And then when he got traded, his wife, who plays for the Las Vegas WNBA team, made some comments saying, yeah, maybe it's because Josh McDaniels wasn't invited to the wet. I'm just going, whoa.

I mean, what are the Raiders? It kind of got me thinking, because I, fairly or not, I see Josh McDaniels as somebody who's bringing in his program as much as he's going to work with what is available. Okay. So to me, the way they've handled this, to move on from Carr to Jimmy Garoppolo, when I think most people would say,

cars at least as talented as Garoppolo, maybe more talented, wouldn't you say? Yes. Most people would say that. No doubt. Moving on now from Darren Waller, who I think most people would say, even with the injury issues, is, you know, in the top half of the league, top third of the league, if he's healthy, maybe he's way higher than that in terms of talented tight ends. Hunter Renfro, again, sort of a bad year, but, you know, a pretty good type of slot type

receiver that you would think would be a good fit for a Josh McDaniels. How do you feel about sort of where they're going and why? Apparently they may maybe they were trying to get in on Aaron Rogers and couldn't, But I almost feel like they'd rather, in some ways, have Jimmy Garoppolo who's going to be a, who's going to be a promoter of the New England way. You know, what do you think? Is that fair? I think it's more than fair. I think it's an excellent point.

And I have had this suspicion the last year with regard to that program and the changing of the guard there. I've taken over teams as a decision maker in the past. And I never felt the need to eliminate guys that were there because they weren't my guys and add my guys to it. I never liked that idea. I think you underestimate how hard it is to get good players for one point. And there's no guarantee that who you bring in there is going to be any different or any better. And chances are you're going to take a step back while they adjust. So just making swapouts of players for me has never been high on my list.

I've seen a little bit of that. And I think some of that that makes me kind of doubt what they're doing is really Josh's past. You know, his time with Denver. His time with Denver was seen by most as a failure, but also a little immaturity, a little more ready fire aim type decision making. And you had hoped after 10 years that that was going to be behind him. Now I see some reactionary moves to, you remember this time halfway through last year, they're starting to doubt the culture, doubting the coach already,

doubting if this was going to be a turnaround program. And now he's jettisoned a lot of players. Maybe those players were stirring the doubt behind the scenes. But anytime you go down this road of my guys, I got to have my guys, I think you've got to watch out that you're not biting off your nose despite your face. That's just my opinion. Think of their last two head coaches there. we won't put Rich Passachi in there because he was interim.

But John Gruden came in and suddenly, you know, Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper just aren't fits. Well, those are two of your five best players in the team. Maybe two of your top three at the time. I mean, Colomac was the best player, I would say. And now you, if you would have said, hey, who are the players you'd be most excited with to have an offensive coach come in to the Raiders?

You would have said, well, Waller. I want to see Waller in this offense, you know. And Hunter Renfro is a nice piece. Hey, we got Devante Adams. hey, let's see it go. And then all of a sudden now those guys are, you know, at least Carr and Darren Waller are gone after one year. And Carr didn't even make it a year. They were done with him after 15 games.

Yeah. No, I definitely read flags. And we'll see how it goes. But gosh, just be careful how quick you run good players off. I've never been a fan of that. Yeah. So we've just about reached the end of the football gym podcast here. We never mentioned Lamar Jackson the whole time.

He's been available the whole time. I haven't been, since we've been doing this, started the podcast today, I haven't been checking Twitter. I haven't been checking Schefter's Twitter to see what the latest did with Lamar Jackson, because there is no latest. Is that a surprise to you? There's no latest. It's not a surprise to me because it's such a convoluted mess, Mike. I mean, when I say mess, I'm trying to be as respectful as I can.

But I've been involved in these, and really this is restricted free agency because he's free, but he's restrictions that are with him. So we can say he's a franchise player, but he's free to shop. It's just really going to be a hard deal for anybody to put together. And we talked about last week in the dynamics of it are so unique that I know there's some teams are just going to walk away saying, I don't think I can make a deal. Plus the demands that he's made are going to turn off 80% of the teams anyway because no one's going to give him a fully guaranteed deal.

It sounds like that's the hill he wants to stand on. So just it's unfortunate, you know, I don't know how it's going to go, how it's going to end up. But I'm sure we can take a little time next week to digest a week into it. If there's no deal, we'll sure have some more information. I think there's also just different evaluations of him, right? And I think that's been sit out to me doing the quarterback tiers thing every year and talking to 50 people in the league. Shoot, you'll get a handful of people that will put Lamar Jackson in tier one.

And you get a handful that'll put him in tier three. Well, that's a huge swing. You don't have that for other guys as much. So there's not even a uniform agreement of how good he is or, what you need to do to play with them or whether you can ultimately win it all with them, all those things. And with these restrictions on it, here we are. And I think it's interesting, too, that Aaron Rogers, who, by the way, the last two years is a unanimous tier one,

there haven't been 10 teams lined up for him either because that's a little tricky and a little complicated in its own ways. Convaluted. Both deals are really convoluted and very unique to the history of the league. Because you're right. In Lamar's case, someone's going to have to commit to the offense that accentuates his skills. And there's, as you know, a lot of NFL coaches are not going to commit to that style of offense. Yeah. They wouldn't even be good at it.

They wouldn't want to do it. And it's not even in their wheelhouse. Right. People are asking like, hey, but the jet, should they go out to the market? You think Hackett's doing that? No chance. When he has a chance to get Rogers, so you wouldn't think so. So maybe we'll have more to talk about on that one.

I mean, you would think there might be. But shoot, maybe next week we'll be talking about those quarterbacks in the drafts. Maybe even apparently won that Mueller. Maybe it could take number one overall. So we'll leave people hanging there. Hey, everybody. Thanks for coming along. You can find Randy's work at muellerfootball.com.

You can find his XFL team, the Sal Ced Sea Dragons, probably committing a turnover right now and winning anyway. And you can find him on Twitter on Twitter at Randy Mueller underscore. I'm Mike Sandow, senior writer from The Athletic. you can find me at The Athletic and at Sando NFL on Twitter. Let's do it again next week, Randy, huh? Sounds good, Mike. Appreciate it. All right.

We'll talk to you guys then. This was The Athletic Football Show.