The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Bills win on TNF, Lamar Jackson at his best, and the looming NFL trade deadline

Episode Date: October 28, 2023

The Bills presented a different type of personnel in TNF…Lamar Jackson is back at an MVP level…Trade discussions begin to heat up around the league…Mike and Randy dive into all of this and share their thoughts on Dalvin Cook possibly being on the move, and how Hunter Renfrow might be a sought-after commodity. Plus, uncertainty in Green Bay, the GM Notebook and Week 8 predictions. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast. Welcome everybody to the Football GM podcast. Mike Sando here from The Athletic, along with my colleague, the GM himself. Randy Mueller, how are you, Randy? Doing good, Coach Sando, trade deadline, a lot of GM moving parts. Love this time of year. Here's what I love. Well, I love and don't love about this time of year.

You know, I think once you get a certain number of games, you start to think you know. You start to have a feel. And, man, we got slapped around last week, didn't we? I've got obliterated in the picks, you know, last week. But that's one of the things we love about the league and the games is that it does throw you curve balls. You know, maybe the truce you think over the course of a whole year hold up at a higher rate. But, man, just when you think you've got one thing or you see one thing, sometimes the games

go a different way. And that's interesting and challenging sometimes on a week-to-week basis. I think that's the ebb and flow of these teams and the league and for GMs the way they build their teams. I mean, it's a constant battling. I've said it on the show. We're always about three weeks away from a total mutiny. We think we have all the answers. And the next thing we know, we've got fights downstairs, we've got scraps out in the parking lot.

We've got all kinds of stuff to deal with. So you just never know. You never know. And the narratives do become real because the owners live them and the coaches and the players live them. And you're always managing all this stuff from week to week. It is a week-to-week league. Speaking of week-to-week, week-week-eight, we are coming off the bills, beating the bucks. What were your takeaways off of that, Randy?

Well, the biggest thing for me was the fact that Josh Allen's shoulder was tenderized a little bit. And we all saw him go into the tent and out of the tent and reported as an AC joint sprain. One thing's for sure for me, this team can't make a deep run without Josh Allen. So I think the coaching staff is well aware of it. I know the front office is. I think you even pointed out to me during the game that the ball seemed to come out quicker after the injury. I did like some of the things that Buffalo was doing. I know there's a lot of emphasis on Buffalo's window slightly closing and they're not the same team.

And I get it. But I saw some positives in, you know, the emergence of a slot receiver, Khalil Shakur. He had six for 92. And really most impressively about it to me was his 15.3 average. And this goes with Gabe Davis. Defon Diggs. Both those guys had pretty good nights. The team ran for over 100 yards on the ground. I thought Josh was pretty decisive with the ball. I don't think he did too many crazy things. The interception was a tip ball, and I don't think he can blame him for that. I think if you're

talking about Buffalo, really their offense is coming around. I think defensively, and I pointed out, I know we're going to get to it at some point during the show here, they have some issues on defense, mainly because they've just been devastated with the end. injuries. They just don't have some of their best players. And so they've got to put band-aids on that somehow, some way. And I think that's probably a reason for them to be active during this last trade window. So, you know, those are the things that, yeah, those are the things that jumped out at me about them. I don't think they can hit the panic button. I'll say this about Buffalo, the trip to London and then the return from that. Now, they've won two out of three since they've

been back. But I think that took a lot out of them physically. For something, some reason, That trip across the pond, it zaps you. I've taken teams over there. I've felt it in energy level, in legs, in juice, you know, when you're there and when you come back. So I think Buffalo needs this mini-buy-bye of 10 days and we'll see what they are coming out of it. And we're going to talk about that and some trade ideas for them at this point in the season. But before we get into the bill offense, which I had a couple thoughts on that, certainly as it relates to Dalton Kincaid, who you love coming out,

and we want to talk about him. But I also, for the first time in this game, I flipped over to that Amazon alternate broadcast, which I had you. I called you. I said, hey, Mueller, you just press them down here, go to the alternate broadcast here,

join this alternate universe here. And, of course, you immediately saw what was on there, and you said, yeah, I don't know if the co-pilot here is going to go for that, and if your wife's going to like this to you. And sure enough, my wife was like, this is ridiculous, this makes my head hurt.

So for those who haven't watched it yet, I kind of liked it. I'm not sure I want to watch it in like a key game and just have all this dressing on the screen. There's a visceral component to watching a game that I sort of still like to just see the game as it's shown. But before the snap, they've got the five eligibles labeled. They've got, after the snap, there's tracers on the routes and the paths. These guys run, which there was a hilarious one,

like a run up the middle into a pile of people. My wife's like, hey, that's great. I'm glad I had that line showing the running back ran straight ahead into a pile of guys. That was really, really helpful. Really good. Good. And then they, but I did like on like the more, you know, once, when you're kind of like watching Josh Allen, you lose track a little bit about what's going down on down the field. Then he throws the ball down the field and then Diggs catches it. And then when you look, you can see the route Diggs ran because there's a, there's a little trace. there. I thought that was kind of neat. I like to see that. Plus, I like the wider view of the play anyway to be able to kind of see what's going on. Instead of getting that in a replay, it feels like

we're getting some more of that, or at least the labeling of it is helpful in terms of who's actually out there. We get to see some players circled to see if they're going to blitz or not, like that they kind of figured out, okay, these two or three guys might be most likely to rush, which I thought was, I don't know if I want to see that forever, but I kind of liked that component to see if it came true. And then some of the nerdier stats that are on there. You mentioned time to throw. I love that. They had the time to throw for Josh Allen pre and post tent.

That was awesome to me. I loved that because we sort of thought, okay, he's getting it out faster after that. We saw the actual numbers. I thought that was a really good thing. Then I was struck, Randy, as we got deeper into the broadcast, you still have Al Michaels on the call. So you got all of these bells and whistles and all the latest technology on there. And then you got Al 78-year-old Al Michaels, the venerable Al Michaels calling the game. At one point, encouraging viewers to not, quote, turn the dial to a different channel, which I mean, look, we could all say turn the dial.

It's an old saying. But it made me think of how long Al Michaels has been. doing this back in the day when you actually did turn a physical dial on your analog TV to turn the channel. So we're getting the warning, don't turn that dial while we've got all these other dials, so to speak, turned on the broadcast to see a bunch of stuff. What did you think of it? Do you have any other thoughts or ideas, things you'd like to see they're not showing? You know, what if they could say? And what if it's set up on the screen, you know, with 90% accuracy, see this is cover three such and such.

Would you, you know, some of the stuff like the teams when they watch the film, they can have that stuff like superimposed into their video cut up, right? So they can see coverages, fronts, whatever they want to have in their time. There's any number of things you could add to this thing. What did you think of what's on there? Is there anything else you'd like to see? Is it too much? It got busy for me after a certain point.

I did enjoy watching it and I'm glad you pointed it out. I stuck with it for, gosh, probably almost. almost a half. I liked a lot of the things that you said. I would love to see them add any more statistical information. I don't know about coverage. Part I didn't like was the voice inflection when the guy came out of the cloud to tell us something that was opinion-oriented. I don't need to hear that. There's just no credibility there for me. If that was going to be credible, I would rather hear that from Al, whether it's turning to dial or not. But I do think there's some good things with it. I think it's, I think my first reaction was, is this

toy story animation? No, it's not that, but it is, it is a little more information that I don't think training wheels is the way to describe it, but there is stuff there that I think the average fan would like, and I would recommend them giving it a shot for sure. Yeah. A funny story, when you talk about turning a dial, the last time I remember turning a dial, I was in college, and the TV we had in our apartment, my roommates and I, we turned it with a pair of pliers. Oh, yeah, I remember that. When the dial came off. Yeah, that's how we turned the channel.

Actually, the knob came off and we used pliers to change channels. So that kind of dates me. Maybe people turn off the podcast now, but it is what it is. They'll turn the dial on this thing on this podcast. That's right. There you go. So I thought of this. So thinking about things you add to a broadcast, I think sometimes it's been awkward to have

like the officiating guy there, right? You know, they have an officiating guy. And sometimes they feel like obligated to use the guy, right? Hey, we got this new guy. We got a show that we've got this new guy. So we're going to go to the new. We're going to get his opinion on everything. And sometimes it's just not necessary.

It's not helpful. We don't need to feel obligated. But what I like is, what I would like for these broadcasts is just have a big toolbox. It doesn't mean you have to have every tool in your toolbox out when you're fixing the car, right? You're just changing, you know, the spark plugs on the car. You don't need 50 million things out there in your Dremel kit and everything else, right? They don't need all those tools.

But I think the smart application of tools could be really good. So you mentioned the little box comes out in the window and then we've got a guy telling us his opinion on something. That we don't need that. But what if there was a, you know, a really good coach who was available occasionally? They don't have to use them this week. but it could be very interesting to me coming down to the final three minutes of the second quarter or the game to get a little bit of insight of what actually happens because, you know, with every new set of downs, they're telling the coach what the go-for it distances on fourth down. It would be too much for everyone to be on the headset at once during the broadcast. But an occasional next-level sort of insight from somebody, I wonder if that could be weaved in because we're not getting that necessarily for.

from the game announcers, right? They're not as clued into some of the finer points of strategy, which we don't want all the time. We don't need to turn this into way more complicated than it is. But I wondered about that, just having a little bit more of expertise and knowing when to weave it in. I totally agree. If they can add some credibility,

especially to this specific broadcast that we're talking about, any credible information is good, because you mentioned it. I mean, we all love Al, 78 years old. Herb Street, we love him as a college guy, but for me, not credible in the NFL stuff at all. So I would love to have some credibility in if it was a coach or even a player, even somebody who's been there, done that, a front office person,

somebody that understands the game, maybe from a slightly different angle, coming in occasionally and saying, hey, here's what, here's what would worry me now, here's what I would look for now. I love that idea. I think it'd be great. Yeah, especially with this individualized group that Amazon has felt the need for us to have to hear. Yeah, yeah. So I like the ability, though, now to have the test, to have these alternate channels is really a testing ground.

It's like a test kitchen. Everybody doesn't have to do it, right? You don't want to do it. But there's an area there for them to sort of mess around with things. And we've seen some sort of novel twists, you know, the Peyton Manning brothers, Peyton and Eli, the Manning Brothers had their thing. It may not be what you want to watch every week. It may not be what you want to watch for a whole broadcast.

but it's something different. There's some attempt to maybe reinvent the thing that's been the same thing forever, which is announcer-voice guy talking about the next play and then the color commentator guy saying what he says. I like the idea of being flexible and trying to find some new ways to do this. You said you loved the Toy Story 1,

which we obviously wouldn't want every week. But I like just some creativity of just trying out some stuff. Well, if this were an ESPN broadcast, I could recommend, hey, let's have Dan Orlovsky, let's have Ryan Clark. And those two guys, they have some of these deep-rooted discussions that have more detail and actually, I think, aren't for everybody. But maybe you experiment with that. But I love the idea of experimenting and finding the right next there.

I think there is a credibility issue with Amazon. And I think it would help their broadcast if they added to it, you know. Absolutely. Well, they've got some real good guys on the post game show. Yeah, that'd be. great. That might even be an easier fix. I agree. Yeah, yeah, they've got guys there. There's some horsepower with those guys. It'd be awesome. Sherman and Fitzpatrick and those guys. As for the bill game itself, okay, I wanted to talk a little bit about Dalton Kincaid because he

were so high on him coming out of the draft. This was a different type of personnel game for Buffalo because they're sort of true veteran tied end. Dots and Knox didn't play. We saw them run nine stats of four true wide receiver offense, which is 10 personnel. It's a fairly uncommon grouping. You're not usually going to see four wide receivers. That was new. We saw Buffalo play with three or more wide receivers on a season high, 91% of the snaps, despite never being behind in the game. It wasn't like they were on offense, you know, in pass mode because, and so it was three receivers for that reason. It wasn't third down the whole game. We saw Dalton Kincaid catch a touchdown. First time in his career. Two explosive gain receptions after

having zero all year. He has seven receiving first downs over the past two games after having four all year before that. We talked about sort of the evolution of the offense, Randy, and just sort of finding their way and what it's going to look like. We got to see him. We got to figure that he's going to be a big part of their future. Do we think this is anything more than, you know, a little bit of a period here where Dashton Knox, you know, wasn't available? Or do you think, would you bet we're going to see Dalton Kincaid make a big difference in the second half of the year. Well, I know Dalton Kincaid's skill set can make a giant difference. And sometimes there's a little balancing act for teams, especially coaches, in working a new guy into a position room where

somebody else has been the star and been the focal point. And I think that's probably been a little bit, I won't say awkward, but it's an issue. Dawson Knox has been a good player. Kincaid, I think, is at another level. And this allows them to kind of do that without. hurting Dawson Knox's feelings. So the results, I think, speak for themselves. I do think Kincaid, the more he gets comfortable in this role is a bigger weapon for them. He's almost like a wide receiver. Yeah, he's not an end-of-the-line blocking guy, but I think you're doing him a disservice and your team if he use him as that anyway. So I think Kincaid is a difference maker at a position that's hard to make a difference at, and that's tight end.

That's interesting. You say that, though, the melding of the personalities and the egos. And I thought Josh Allen handled it pretty well after the game. He was asked about, hey, you really spread it around, huh? Is this the way to go? And he did talk about how that's great when you can do it, but don't forget, you know, Stefan Diggs is still the top dog. He, you know, walked that line. But it wasn't overly forced. He kind of, he kind of weaved it in by saying, look, if we can find, Stefan Diggs is going to get the ball because he's open. He's a good receiver. He's open. We want to throw to the open guy. But if we can get some of these other guys going, it's going to make his openness greater, right?

We're going to be able to hit him on some more stuff. It'll open up for him, too. So I think they're just a little bit fascinating to me over the course of the season. The season is an evolution. This is an established team, but it's got new challenges. And, you know, you talked about it a little bit with how much do we want Josh Allen running, right?

His health. Stefan Diggs, the management of him, you know, the new piece coming in. Now at the same time, there are deep. defense isn't what it was. So it's just a there's a little bit of a chaotic management component, but it maybe it'll, you know, there's got a chance to work out well too. That chaotic management point is very similar in most NFL offices. And that's why the best laid plans of mice and men when the season starts get thrown out of the window after five or six weeks, because your, your, your hand that you've been dealt changes. And so you've always got to be on your toes. It's like the old

adage to Abe Gibran, the old coach on the sidelines of the Bears, when they had the NFL films on him, you hear him yelling out, watch a screen, watch your draw, watch everything, he said. So, yeah, you got to watch everything as a GM or as a head coach all the time because it's always changing and you've always got to be able to deal with fixing problems. That's really what these jobs are. It's interseason, it's offseason, you have to fix problems and deal with people. It's no different than running AT&T or running some other company that's non-sports related. It's a people business for the most part, and you've got to depend on people around you. And that's the hardest thing these teams have to find in a GM or as a head coach,

is they have to be a person that can relate to everybody and keep everybody on the rails. Okay, so people business, let's transition into some trade discussions, because when you're bringing a new player in, that's a consideration too. We got the trade deadline coming up on Tuesday. Before we get into some of your ideas, which I wanted to talk about, I like them. I think they're a little different than a lot of other ideas. Some of the more obvious ones out there. But the Eagles acquiring Tennessee Titan safety, Kevin Byard, wasn't necessarily something that everybody saw coming for weeks or was talked about a bunch before.

there's trades, Randy, you've taught, can kind of serve different purposes. There's obviously the on-field component, but for you, this one has another dimension. Well, for me, having made trades, deadline, deals, the only critics that I really cared about are the ones in the locker room. That's really who I know, get it. They understand our team. It may be something that I run by a couple of leaders before I do it to make sure. I think keeping your team all on the same page is good, and you have leaders that have influence in that locker room, and you have to recognize that.

I think in this case, a guy like Kevin Baird, who has been the heart and soul, in my opinion, of the Titans for the last however many years, eight, nine years, leaving a void is something that's really hard to obviously replace on the field, but it's also a void of leadership, of influence in the locker room as well. And I think, for one thing, it's a great move for the Eagles. I love the way they've done it. And people have said, well, Kevin's not what he used to be, blah, blah, blah. Well, I'll tell you what he is. He's still a four-time captain. He is the face of the Eagles, I mean, the Titans defense.

And now he goes to a locker room where already joined by many guys like him. And the thing I thought about most in that deal was, if I'm a young guy with the Eagles, maybe Jalen Carter or one of these other young up-and-coming draft picks, if I'm sitting in front of my locker and look around that locker room now, look at the places I could go for wisdom, for advice, for bouncing things off for resources. I think Howard Roseman has done the best job in the league of adding resources on the field and adding resources for his team off the field. A guy like Kevin Baird, even if he doesn't play it down, I think is worth what they gave up just in influence, in voice and in intangibles, the Eagles locker room. And I would be excited if a guy like that could be added to my team

eight or nine weeks into a season. I think it's a great move for the Eagles. Yes. And do you think you can still play decent enough? I think as he's, nobody's ever what they were, year nine that they were in year three or four. But yes,

I think the best thing he can add is he knows his limitations. He knows he probably can't run like he used to. But Kevin Baird was an all-around safety. He was a good enough cover guy to run with tied-in. and backs. He was a big enough physical presence that he could insert himself into a gap and stop a running play. The versatility he brings is big, and I think he can do that really good in the Eagle scheme. Yeah, yep. So some of the other trades that we've talked about potentially happening or ones, you know, that we could envision or might make sense. One of the run through a couple

of those with you. Everyone should check out. We've got a couple columns on the athletic this week. you can find those through the app or just Google Randy Mueller, the Athletic, you'll find his archive. There's really no shortage of trades I'd like to see content out there, Randy. What I appreciate about some of yours is they, while they include some of the obvious names, you go beyond them too in sort of a way that gets at team building. And so what caught my attention is Mike Purcell, nose tackle for the Broncos, Josie Jewel, inside linebacker for the Broncos. Jeff Swain back up tight end for the Cardinals. Ty Chandler backup running back for the Vikings. These are the types of names that I think can be kind of

interesting because while they're not star players, they have the potential to fill holes for teams if you know what you're looking for, if you think you know what a team needs or could use. So I want to start with Buffalo because we were talking about the bills. There's been a lot of focus on their offense, but the defense is obviously different. So The two Denver defenders, Purcell and Jewel, why do you like those guys in particular for Buffalo? And why do you think Buffalo needs to make a move? Well, for a couple reasons. As I mentioned, the bills have now a 10-day window to kind of reset their team,

kind of where they are to go and match up against teams for the second half of the season. I think, and I mentioned it, since the London game, they've been a little different. So I think Brandon being their GM almost needs to do something to give his team a shot in the arm. And I think it has to be on defense for the most part. I mean, they're up. Ed DeHoliver played Thursday night, but he missed a week before, and it was evident how much they missed him. Dequan Jones is on IR. We already know about Giudavius White.

Milano, the linebacker who was really their face on defense and their glue guy, he's out. So they've taken some shots. And I think to do that, you almost have to fill in with not only the right. kind of player, but the right kind of people. And I just thought the matchup for me made sense to go to Denver and people are going to say, well, Denver sucks on defense. Why would you want any of their guys? These players all have skill sets. And how they come together has a lot to do with coaching and the schemes they're in. And when you mentioned, you know, Mike Purcell, I know his skill set. I know his strengths. And he actually fits, in my opinion, with what the bills do up front. And I think he would

be a good addition because of his versatility at nose. He can also play three technique, can play a bunch of different places. He has no ego. Really would be a good addition to that team, in my opinion. And then you mentioned Josie Jules, the linebacker from Iowa, who's been a mainstay in Denver. He's getting to the end of his contract as well. These two players both make sense on paper because they're kind of rentals, but yet they're coming in in the right scheme to make them fit and at positions of need for us. So these are the kind of things that pro scouting departments around the league continually rank, and then you put these things in front of your decision makers as a scouting department to say, hey, can we think about this? And then the GM will get involved

with some evaluations himself. So it made sense to me. I think we all know Sean Payton's looking to move some pieces in Denver. Obviously they need to, part of a rebuild that is ongoing. In this case, I think it fits for both the bills and Denver to make a swap of multiple guys, because I don't think you'd have to give a lot to get them. That's the other thing. Some of these teams have cap positioning to have to worry about. They don't want to give away a ton in the future, but I don't think in this case that the bills have much choice. They need to sacrifice a little bit of the future to rectify what's going on right now.

Absolutely. And they already were all in on, you know, on, on Vaughn Miller at a really high price with a lot of guaranteed money. These moves aren't those, that type of a thing where you're going all in on a huge name. But they need a couple of pieces, right? I mean, just to sort of stabilize things.

and stop the bleeding a little bit. Those two make sense for them. You also had Hunter Renfro to the Packers as another idea. I know you watched the Denver Green Bay film. Maybe we can get a little two-for-one analysis here on adding Renfro, and then what the heck's up with the Green Bay offense? You know, maybe this is a little bit of a remedy. Well, I think you're right.

I think it's crazy to think about Hunter Renfro as being maybe the most sought-after piece in the trade market right now because this guy has six catches on the year. He's done absolutely nothing. He's fallen out of favor with Vegas. They don't play him much. I think there's four or five teams that could make a case for reaching out and acquiring him. And don't worry about next year's numbers. Worry about this year's numbers. The thing that Hunter Renfro can do, and he's identified these as his strength throughout his career, is quickness, is ability to find soft spots, ability to find zone weak spots to be on the same page with the quarterback. I mean, you could name several teams that could use this, you know, New England,

the Saints, his old former quarterback is there. But you mentioned Green Bay and I only kind of picked them out as the best fit of this because I think, I mean, it's fact. Their offense is one of the youngest in the league. Their receivers might be the youngest group in the league. And we've talked about it here on the podcast. We think they need leadership. they need somebody who is more advanced as a route runner and more consistent mentally in processing

and can be a security blanket for Jordan Love. And I think that's really missing with Green Bay right now. I think they have some issues on offense. I think Hunter Renfro would be a great fit for them. I think he would, this guy's only two years removed from catching a hundred balls. So we can't say he's washed up. He's not. I looked at the tape. I see the same things I saw in him two years ago in his hundred catch year as as he's doing right now. Jacoby, is it Jacobi Myers, the receiver that they signed from New England, who's now taking that role with Vegas. He's kind of the preferred teacher's pet because he came from New England. We've seen how that works in Vegas. I just think Hunter Renfrof gives you a lot of options and it sounds crazy to be,

to make him a sought after commodity with his production this year. But I do think there are some teams that they're really missing that part of their game. Absolutely. You'd also circled maybe even a DeAndre Hopkins type for the Packers. That doesn't seem like maybe is that as easy and of a fit or you just or not? Well, it's not as easy of a fit because of the cap ramifications, but I do think they've got to get Jordan Love some help. You mentioned the issues that Jordan loves having.

I think there's a couple things there. One, the options that they've given him both schematically, in other words, answers for him if coverages take. away a certain play to go here, to go there. I don't think those answers have been evident for me with their offense, and that kind of falls on Matt Lafleur. But he's got to have some options in the passing game. The Musgrave, the tied in that they drafted from Oregon State, inconsistent a little bit, raw for sure, young in nature. Again, falls into the same category as Christian Watson, as Dobbs of all these young receivers. They may turn out to be great,

but I don't think you can overestimate the fact that they lost Cobb. They, lost Lizard. They lost some guys who may not be the greatest at their trade right now, but they lost leadership. They lost security. They lost stability. And some of that's evident, especially when you don't have a running game. Like Green Bay, you know, I think they need juice in the backfield, too. I love A.J. Dillon, but he's a hammer that, you know, reminds me of an electric football game. You know, nobody ever breaks out of the pack. So they've got to find some speed in the backfield to give them some juice to make Jordan love, allow him to have some other options. So I guess my takeaway here on Green Bay would be, hey, it's not so much careful what you wish

for because let's just say we acknowledge the Rogers thing was done and he was going to move. But in making the transition, I think as a team builder or as an evaluator, you can be real excited to turn the page and go with a young group. That is kind of an exciting thing, isn't it, Randy? when you sort of felt like, especially this last year in Green Bay where, you know, it wasn't going well with Aaron and everyone was just kind of like, we're done with this. And I think you just have a natural excitement. Let's go. Let's just go young. Let's see what we've got. We've drafted these guys. Now I can't wait to see him, you know. Can't wait to see them. And it doesn't mean that

you're wrong necessarily for wanting to do that. But maybe there's, you know, and look, they've had their running backs been injured and some things haven't gone their way. They've lost a couple close games, whatever. There's a couple things that could just be a little different and maybe things would be going to plan. But it's just an interesting consideration of, hey, maybe don't go so, don't swing so far so fast because you could be in this type of a situation. Well, I think it proves to me that you can't be anchored on your position either. You've got to be able to flow with the flow. And when things don't work out exactly like you want, you can't be patient beyond end. I mean, some of that is the definition of insanity, right? Just keep doing the same thing

and hope for a better result? Well, not necessarily the case. And hope isn't really a plan. The other thing is that this is the part that we've talked about, Mike, here, is the Matt Lafleur influence. Matt Lefleur's never had his back to the pavement like he does right now. They're a struggling team, and he is the face, and he is the leader, and it's not Aaron Rogers' team anymore.

He needs to provide a difference, whether it's going down to see Brian Gutikist and having a little bit of an awkward conversation with him, or it's going in that locker room and calling out some other people. We don't have the people we've had to deal with in the past to worry about bruised ego. He needs this, in my opinion, swing a pretty wide swath and start to make a difference, both during the week and on Sundays, and I just haven't seen that. Yeah, I think in the past you could afford to be patient more because, hey, Rogers will get this thing going and figured out. And Aaron's going to stay there and say relax, right, and all of that.

Yeah, I understand. There's a little bit of a transition and probably a lot of things being learned. Let's shift to the Saints finally because you and I talked about this coming out of last week about Alvin Kamara and the possibility of trading him, not now for cap situations, but maybe be thinking a little bit along those lines if we think he's kind of become the face of what's a finesse offense here. You proposed New Orleans making a run at an Arizona Cardinals' tight end, not named Zach Hertz, who is injured in Arizona, back up Jeff Swain.

Not a name that's probably moving the needle in all of the trade chatter in media, but kind of interesting to me, walk us through. What are you thinking? Well, I have watched a little bit of Saints film the last few weeks. Obviously, I have a lot of close ties there, and I love to see them succeed, if at all possible. I think in this case, anything the Saints do to their roster has to have salary cap flexibility. We know where they've been against the cap the last couple years, so they can't add a bunch of dollars. Really, the only additions they've been able to make have been the last couple years are really cap creative, you know, decisions.

And they just don't have the flexibility. And in what I've seen from their offense, and it's being run by Pete Carmichael now, who's a Sean Payton disciple and was his right-hand man. But it's different. Sean's not there now. I see an offense that partially because of injury, now they've been without a couple offensive linemen in the last couple weeks. I think partially because of schematic and personnel, to me, they've become a little more finesse than I would like to be. Alvin Kamara, you mentioned it, one of the highest paid running backs in the league. I get it. His deal has been redone a couple times.

It's probably not flexible enough for them to move it. But to me, he's kind of become a third down option, a receiving back to kind of move the chains, not a downhill, not a physical presence, not a guy that's really wanting to or willing to run downhill. and I think that's always been a part of their game that is missing right now. They've always had a Mark Ingram or even the one year they went to the Super Bowl. It was a college free agent. I forget his name, but he was a tough, strong downhill runner. I just think that and the fact that they've missed Ryan Ramcheck, the fact that Andrews Pete is playing tackle now to fill in,

he's probably better suited to be guard. They've got a kind of manufacturer, I think, a little more physicality with their run game. And to do that, I suggest maybe finding one of the better blocking tight ends in the league over the last six or eight years. And that's the case of Jeff Swain. I think he's physical. He's square. He can bring a mentality to that group that, hey, let's make our running game a little

bit of a factor here. I don't think anybody talks about the fact that the Saints running game is something we need to be focused on or more defined to stop. And I think that helps Derek Carr. That helps Alvin Kamara. It's just an element that I would think is missing a little bit from where I sit. And that's why I mentioned Jeff Swain or even. a backup running back somewhere that's cheap, like a Tyson Chandler from Minnesota, who you know

we've talked about here. I like the kid. I don't know why Minnesota doesn't play him. I'd love to see him go somewhere and get some run as a first and second down back with some physicality to break a tackle when things aren't always blocked up front. And you see that when offensive lines are in flux, when injuries factor in, backs have to break arm tackles because they're not being, the front is not being blocked like it perfectly would be on the blackboard. I think that is missing. That's not out. Calvin Kamara's strength. He does not break arm tackles for the most part. He's kind of lighten the butt type runner and he's explosive. Don't get me wrong, but that's just a little different

style. So I think you got to, if you can't move him now, which I don't think you can, you have to it. And I thought either a more physical running inside back or a blocking tight end. They're struggling at tight end. To me, we saw it the other night, the dropping of the game winning touchdown by the tight end in the Saints roster, on the Saints roster. They need to influx of some element, and I think it's physicality, and I think it's a run game. Just my opinion. Speaking of run game, Dalvin Cook might want to trade. Life comes out to fast in the NFL, doesn't it, Randy?

I mean, this is someone who has whatever, three or four thousand-yard years in a row, made some good money, gets cut by Minnesota, which we understood, especially, you know, liked the other backs they had and the cost considerations of that. but man, he's got about no carries for about no yards and it doesn't even factor in. Obviously, Breece Hall coming back to health is part of that, but just kind of striking, isn't it? He's 28 years old and can't get the ball. Well, it also shows me that he's thought through this before. You know, it took him forever to find this gig with the Jets,

and no one else was willing to pay him anywhere near what the Jets paid him. So he took the money, but I've always been skeptical of this fit. I understand the insurance. that it gave the jets in Brees Hall coming back from an ACL. But Brees Hall is good. To me, and we talked about this a little bit before the show, I think Brees Hall is a younger Dalvin Cook. So their skill set is very similar.

There's no contrast. So there's really no reason to play. There's no reason to play cook unless it's just to sub or rest Brees Hall. He doesn't bring a different skill set of any kind that we can take advantage of or it throws the defense into a different defending mode. So that's a problem. You mentioned he wants to seek a trade. I get it, but be careful what you wish for because you had a hard time find in this gig.

The only market I could see developing is a team that's lost the running back or two between when you signed with the Jets and now to change your market value. Because that's kind of been determined. And you might find out that there's not as many takers as you think. And you've been through this before if you're Dalvin Cook. We'll give you Dalvin Cook and a sixth for seventh. Will you take that? One of those weird trades. Yeah, I think that's an issue.

Probably that's the new Starbucks trade, and there's a couple others in that boat, well, you scratch my back, I scratch yours. But maybe that works out that way, I don't know. Hey, you were pretty high on the Ravens offense early in the year, Randy. They had a great game the other day against Detroit. I just wanted to see what you thought.

To what degree are you sort of betting on this offense long-term and style. Are you into it? Are you excited? I was very skeptical of Todd Munkin and this offense before the season started. I think it's come a long ways and I think Lamar is playing at tip-top level, maybe as good as I've ever seen him play. I like what they're doing with the scheme and I think Lamar is maybe running less or more calculated, I should say, which is a good thing. But what's really happened for me is the perimeter offense and the weapons he has has really been upgraded. and he's able to use these guys. They're still work in the middle of the field.

They're still the Mark Andrews component of it. These strengths that Lamar has have been accentuated. And I think right now for my money, he's the MVP favorite. I thought last week's game when they took apart Detroit might have been the best game I've ever seen from Lamar, at least since his MVP days. Yeah, it was really a cool thing to see. And, you know, we've seen some positive signs along the way, and then they just sort of stubbed their own toe.

You know, they had one game with a bunch of drops. They've had some fumbles, and they've played some tough defenses early in the year. And so, you know, and look, it's not going to be as easy as it was against Detroit every week. They'll have their ups and downs like everybody does. The 49ers looked amazing, and then they don't for a couple weeks. But I thought that was a really encouraging game, and it is different to see him in this realm. You know, like moving with the intent to pass. And it almost doesn't look as fast running, but it's almost like,

like I'm not sure about that because I don't know that he's trying to run. You know, I don't think, I wondered if we like got him on a, you know, you put him on a track somewhere if he'd be just the same way that he was before. But he's not playing that way right now. He's playing, he's playing at a different sort of intent with it. And then the other thing is he's always had that, he's always had kind of an interesting arm where he can make sort of side throws. And he doesn't he have sort of a loose arm that he can kind of flip the ball around?

I think we've seen some of that with some of the, he throws like just kind of some feel plays from him that have been fun. Like one of them that came to mind in this game against Detroit was where he hit the back for like a 80 yard gain on that little pass to the right. Remember he's running to the right and it almost, the play almost looked like a zone read. It almost looked like he was going to run to the left. It was weird.

And then he came back the other way. And then he just does this little flip pass and suddenly we're out of the gates for 80 yards. It was just kind of, you know, what do you defend there? Detroit. A hundred percent. And I think his skill set is so unique that they've found ways now to kind of unleash some of that. I think the biggest difference for me with Lamar is that in the past, he's always been one of those guys where when he's ready to throw the ball, if the option isn't presenting himself, he's looking to take off. Now you see a guy that, like you said, he may flush, but he's still looking to throw the ball first and foremost. So he's looking for layered

throws for second and third options. And maybe that's just with growing with the position. But I got to credit Monkin. I got to credit the offensive philosophy. And it's definitely got him out of that. He's always had that, like you mentioned, loose arm and the ability to change platforms to get rid of the ball. That's rare in this league. So that is a great advantage that he can throw the ball

without having to be set and having his legs under him. It's probably one of the criteria that for years in this world, we didn't really get to see quarterbacks have. Nowadays, if they don't have it, it's an issue. So I think in his case he can do that. Obviously, Mahomes can do that. Josh Allen can do it. Some of these guys who are great at what they do now can do it with a different set of fundamentals

than the old school way that we saw for 30 years in this league. Yeah, going to be fun to watch, see how it plays out. Another quarterback in the news, Kyler Murray, no longer on the Arizona Cardinals injury report. There's been so much chatter, you know, about the Cardinals. They've got all these picks. they might be able to draft the replacement for Kyler Murray, and who knows, there's a lot of football to be played, and they could do that.

I've kind of been impressed a little surprised by what they've been able to do on offense in Arizona with Joshua Dobbs. They don't put up a bunch of points, but it seems like they've moved the ball better than I thought. It seems like their scheming has been pretty good with a first-year coordinator, and now it looks like Randy at some point here, we are going to probably see Kyler-Marie play.

And there had been some talk, I think, hey, is he even going to play this thing, right? I'm just curious what your feel here, what your outlook is, what you'd be thinking if you were the GM there, you know, Moni Austin Ford and everybody. They've said all the right things about Kyler-Marie so far and embracing him and all of that. Rubber's maybe going to meet the road here.

Well, I agree with you. I think a couple things. One, Josh Dobbs has over-exceeded my expectations. I've always thought of him as a ample third quarterback. We saw him play a little bit at the end the last season with the Titans, and he kind of fell flat a little bit. He just wasn't good enough. He's definitely raised his game. I think the offensive scheme they run in Arizona is helpful for him. He's definitely an option for them. I don't know if it's one that they can live with in the future. So I think their number one thing, and we've said this from the Jump Street this year, is they've got to

figure out what to do with Murray. I understand the risk you take when his comments. contract is a little, you know, gray about guarantees, about injury guarantees, about, you know, risk reward and all that. But I don't think they have any choice but to play them. And I've gone back and forth on this. These decision makers have not seen this kid and the way he reacts under the gun. He has some pluses into the athleticism. His issues have been intangible stuff. They've seen enough of that now the last six months since taking over that, hey, now it's time to play and show us that side of it. They have to decide if he's good enough to play and to attach their futures to going forward. It doesn't matter what Cliff Kingsbury or Kime wanted to do.

It doesn't really matter at this point. They have the ability to either cut ties or not with Kyler Murray. And the only way you're going to find that out, I think, is to get him under fire. You can watch him practice. You can watch all these other things happen off the field, but he's got to play. And I think in this case, at some point, might be this week, might be next week. The window is open and it's only 21 days. I think they've got to play the kid and find out what he knows about this offense and what he can do. Because don't forget, this is not the same offense that Kyler's been operating under really his whole career.

In college it was the same. It's this, you know, Lincoln Riley, Cliff Kingsbury. I don't want to say recess offense because that's just being disrespectful. But that spread offense where it's a complete, you know, passing game first offense. He's got to be able to find now, if he can play with some more structure, some more discipline,

some more processing of things from the pocket, they've got to find that out. And so if not, they're going to be positioned where they can draft one of these young college kids that people are saying now are the greatest thing in the world. We'll see when we actually do get to evaluate them.

They've got to find that out when the season's over. And they've got a half a season now to do it. So at some point, yes, you're going to see Kyler Murray playing and you're going to see him over a long course of time. It's not something they can decide in two or three weeks. They need to get eight games, if they can, of Kyler Murray in this scheme. Oh, yeah, because I think it's going to be difficult. You mentioned a totally different scheme for him than what he's done before.

Well, guess what? It's midway through the season. Everyone else is in fighting trim. Everyone else is in shape. Everyone's playing football. He is not even a year off the December 12th knee injury. And he is somebody who has been electric, who's really utilized. his legs to, you know, to run, move, all of that.

There's a confidence level that it was second nature for him. So now you're going to go mid-season into an offense you've never been in before after getting no training camp, after not playing since December of last year. And by the way, you're not even, like I said, you're not even a year out from the injury. I think that's a challenge. It's an exciting opportunity, but also a potentially challenging one for him. and we'll just be very interesting. Like, is it realistic to think that he would finish this season strong?

Maybe it will. If Joshua Dobbs can do it, maybe he'll be fine. Well, I don't think the franchise can be tied to anybody's particular personal agenda at this point. They've got to know who their quarterback is. And if not, they're going to be in the Caleb Williams sweepstakes. So if not the first pick, they're going to have to find a way to get it. And that's possible if it looks like the bears are going to have. the couple of the top five picks. So there's maneuverability, if nothing else.

Yeah. Before we get to the GM Notebook, I wanted to acknowledge that we do have the number one and number two picks in the draft plan this week, Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud. Some really touchy questions for Frank Reich this week. Yeah, I saw that. The Panthers are 0 and 6th. One of the questions was like, you know, do you regret or did you take the wrong quarterback? And that's a tough question. I know as a beat reporter, I don't think I'm asking. asking that one in the press conference. You don't think he'd ask Chuck Knox that one? Yeah.

Well, or Mike Holmgren. I'm just saying, you know, that's a tough, that's a hard question. I mean, come on, what's he going to say? We're six games in. We're six games in. I mean, it's really been a tough go when you're getting that type of a question. Even if they, first off, there's no way you could feel that way after six games. You're not making an assessment now.

I mean, but it is sort of, where they're at, right now. Any thoughts on the game, the matchup, anything jump out to you, or thoughts on having to answer that type of question? I'll give you some thoughts on that reporter. That's all right. Well, let me say this, though. The narrative is there that Frank Reich kind of maybe wasn't the one.

No doubt. There's blood in the water. He wasn't the one who was driving the decision. So I'm thinking you almost need some kind of an organizational strategy to dispel that. Because that's a bad thing. Now, does it just go away if Bryce Young play? as well and you don't have to worry about it. Because that has been something that's sort of been brewing in the background that

bothers me. Like if I was the Panthers, that would bother me. Well, it's never been a slam dunk, in my opinion. And most, and a lot of other people I talk to around the league, it was never a slam dunk that this was Bryce Young's entitled spot to be the first pick in the draft. So there were some that made a case for them going a different option. The fact that they haven't won a game, the fact that Frank Wright is given. up all his offensive play calling to another guy who's calling plays really for the first time

at the pro level. So that's what I mean about there's some blood in the water. There's some shark circling as to what are we doing here. And it doesn't help that C.J. Strouds played really good. So I don't think that this game is a referendum on who is right or who's wrong. That's crazy in my mind. It's six games in. You're right. But I do think there are some things that we've seen these first six weeks that some people saw in the evaluation. as well. So I'll be honest, I'm not shocked. I think Bryce Young is still has strengths that we all saw coming out. His, his poise, his leadership. And Frank Reich mentioned it, the man, the communicator, all that stuff. Nobody ever questioned that about him. Having said that, I know it's a big man's game and that's never going to change. And so that has always been there for some of the detractors, right? Me included. I just, I couldn't have done that. with a smaller version at the most important position. It's just hard for me.

Now, maybe he'll be okay. Maybe they can find ways to make him play bigger. Everybody always says, well, he's been the size his whole life and certain things have happened. I do think this, when you really break it down, you have to have a clean pocket for a smaller quarterback. And I think that's been an issue at times. The pocket hasn't been as clean as Bryce needs it.

They don't have a great team around. he has really limited options on the perimeter to throw to, not guys that are wide open like he did at Alabama. He's thrown to wide open people a lot of the times. And sometimes the game seems a little big for the stature of Bryce Young. That's just my opinion. And I think that's something he's going to have to overcome when I haven't seen it yet. Well, so how big of a problem would it be if the truth really was that maybe Frank

Reich would have gone in another direction? You were talking number one overall pick quarterback. you know, if, because you can't really, you, I'm not saying it is or isn't here. Yeah, I hear you. I'm just saying as an exercise here. Right. As an exercise here, you can't really hide what's in your heart. It's true whether it's, whether you say it is or not.

Would that be a problem? Well, it tells me that the process is flawed. If you have the number one picking the draft. If that were true. Yeah, if that were true, you would have a flawed process. You have the first pick in a draft. If you're not all in the same boat, all in consensus 100%, there's no way you can draft the kid.

So if there was some mild question, some pushback from some of the decision-making or er in that room, I've always been a believer that if we're not going to agree on this, we're going to pick a different lane. And I know they need a quarterback bad. I get it. But maybe there was also pushback against drafting C.J. Stroud as well. We all know some teams struggled with him as a processor and decision-maker.

so maybe there wasn't a reason to have to draft a quarterback and sometimes need overtakes this. And that's a problem, regardless of the position, if you take a guy based on need that high in a draft and don't have 100% consensus on it, I think that's where the problem lies. Yeah, it would be interesting. Yeah, I'd like to see a more convincing rebuttal that this is our guy. I just would like to see that. Well, I think it has to happen on the field. It doesn't really matter what Frank said. And you said it.

There's no way you can answer anything anyway, but he. He did, and it's just time will tell, time will tell. And just be super excited about what we're doing and where we're going, which is hard to do when you're 0 and 6. It's a test for everybody. Been there, done that. I want to see that juice. I want to see that, you know, hey, I want to feel it.

I want to feel that it's true, not just say it. So what do you got in the GM notebook before we get to our picks, which we really got to make up some ground after last week? When we just forget the pick section? I mean, that's... Especially, no, me. I have to make up. I went for four games and missed them all.

I've never done that. Well, hey. I said that it was, I said that. I'm not surprised. Let's just put it that way. I got it a little greedy. I'm respectful of the fact that you got up to the plate and took three cuts. In this case, you took four swings.

You were not waiting for a walk, okay? You were not looking for a free pass. So I give respect for that. And we'll get to that. But to answer your question on the GM notebook, there's two or three notes. I'll try to be quick. The first of which, we talked a little bit about Derek Henry, and that name's been bantied about a lot in the trade talks leading up to the deadline next Tuesday.

my thinking as a GM is what would a guy like Derek Henry mean to your locker room? And actually the way he could influence it in a way that goes beyond and above what he does on the field. I just think there are a couple really good fits for him. One is a place like Cleveland with an offensive line that I think would take two or three days to sober up if they got Derek Henry at this point. They would be so happy. I just think that's a great fit. but it's also the time when you can consider, again, we mentioned this, what's leaving your locker room. I equated it to maybe Arizona looking to trade a Buda Baker whose name's been mentioned.

These guys that are heart and soul of their team, to move them is not easy. And I know in their world of fantasy football, it's easy to plug and play, plug and play. The makeup and the chemistry in your locker room matters a lot. So I like the idea of Tennessee maybe moving on from Derek Henry. I also like the idea of what he can bring to a team. But you got to do it with a little bit of pumping the brakes as well. Yeah, that's a tough. It would be tough to lose Byard and Henry.

I mean, what do you got left? But, you know. And that brings up a whole other story, Mike. And sorry to interrupt, but what Mike Vrable does with this type of outlook and this type of philosophy in that dichotomy of short term versus long term, head coach view versus a longer term GM view. That's a whole other story maybe for the next podcast. Yeah, absolutely. What else he got in there? The reason a lot of these teams start the season with what fans or listeners might deem as excessive amount of room underneath the cap is for reasons like this.

Some teams, like Cleveland, has $34 million in cap space according to over the cap. They want roster flexibility. And this is the time they want to use it is before the trade deadline. It's hard to think that far ahead, but it's a nice chip to have. If you can affect your team and not have to worry about cap being the reason you. you can't get better. So I think you should be happy if your team starts the season with $10 million. Don't look at it as, hey, we're wasting this money.

Yeah, can transfer it in next year. But some teams might view that as a way to add players throughout the year, not having to redo contracts, not have to compromise the rest of your cap. And so I'm giving bouquets to those teams that do have cap available to now then add to their team. I think it's great. Yeah. I think Cleveland will need to push some of that forward to handle to Sean Watson's contract in the future, but in the meantime, you still do have some flexibility to make a move if you want to do.

Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see how they handle Deshawn Watson's contract. That's a whole other story. As we all know, those cap numbers go up in the 60 millions for two or three years at the end of his deal. And that's real. That's slapped in the face. So you've got to kind of figure some things out because not only is the cap that high, you have no leverage in redoing it because he has fully guaranteed all of that money, every dollar of it. So again, That's a whole other story. The other thing I thought might be interesting, I heard Texan's GM Nick Casario on the radio this week and just talking about his schedule. And kind of people always ask me, what was your schedule like during the week when the season's going on as a GM?

I think teams and GMs have gotten further away from that GM being able to go spend time on the road. That's good and that's bad. I think these teams now have become manageable only from the standpoint of you need to be around as much as you can. I used to take some weeks where I might leave on a Wednesday after our roster was set, and my team wouldn't see me until Sunday. I'd be gone Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

You really can't do that anymore. You can't manage these teams from afar. So it's kind of changed the criteria. It's changed the agenda of some of these GMs, and Nick admitted it. And it was informative to me for him to say, hey, I might go to a college game on Saturday if it's in a town where we are. But for the most part, I've got to listen to my scouts. I've got to listen to my directors.

I have more input from them and trust that they are putting us on the right players. What's different, though? Well, I don't think there's any difference in that philosophy except that he's only out sometimes on a Saturday to see a game. That's it. Otherwise, he's around the team all the time. Why could you go away before,

but you don't think it would be as easy to do now? I just think there's so many more things and so many more things to fix and people to manage that it's hard to do from afar. I remember being on the road leaving Clemson practice on a Thursday and Nick Sabin calling me in Miami and saying, hey, explaining to me what had happened that day and looking for a sounding board as to what you think we should do, I don't think I could do that. I'd need to be there now. I need to be around that now. I don't think I can just go get on an airplane and disappear for two or three

days. Sometimes we used to do it just to keep our sanity for getting out of the office. I just don't think you can do that anymore. I think you have to be with your team to manage it. So that's the only thing I'm saying. And it's just different times, different responsibilities for the GM. There are a lot more hands-on than when I was 10 years ago as a GM. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. A couple listeners DM'd me, got involved asking questions since our last podcast. And a couple of them mentioned, hey, do you have any dialogue with the referees? How does teams view referees and crews? I just thought it was interesting to point out. And I think it was more about Nick Siriani's comments about how he coaches the tush-push,

how they do some things different than other teams do, and how he expects the referees to call it a little different. And it made me think of every team before a game, the referees, two or three of them, come into your coach's office. So 90 minutes before the game, you get a chance. chance to explain kind of what you're going to do if there's anything different, all the details of maybe a surprise play, of a fake punt, of some things that you have concern about the opposition having done the week before. So you do have a dialogue and a chance. It's not a long window,

but it's five or ten minutes with these officials pregame to kind of set the tone for things that are important for you. The other thing listeners should know is that teams study these groups of officials. They have game plans based on who's calling what, who has called. want. That's nothing new. They have always done scouting reports on all of these groups and the likelihood of what they may or may not call or see. So they define and know exactly who their referees are and who these people, how they could influence a game. So that is a big part of preparation, in my opinion. Now they also can get the stats on each guy on the crew so they can know that this umpire does this more than the other one. You know, look out for that, that type of scouting.

All right, Randy, we put it off long enough. I'm 8 and 11 against the spread after going 0 for 4. I mean, it's just comical. You know, I lost on Buffalo and San Francisco giving points. I was going to Buffalo like, hey, I'll just go against New England until it dries up. I took points. So you just took hope as being a real plan. I had hope as a plan.

I thought the Chargers would play the Chiefs a little closer. I took the points. I got you. And then I thought the Detroit Baltimore game would be close. So I thought Baltimore might win, but it would be close. And so I'll take the points with Detroit.

Ha! Ha! Not even close, Randy. You were only half as bad. O and two. You're 500 against the spread this year. Lost on Tampa, which was, I believe, really close.

Lost on Green Bay, which was close. So you were a lot closer than I was. All right. So for the picks this week, I see in the notes here, it says, Sando you go first. Do you want me to walk this plank? Well, I think it's only right that you, you know,

come clean with what you're thinking. I don't have honors. I don't have honors off this tea. I know that. Not that I'm going to change what I think based on what you're doing, but it's just a little change. You might, that's all. That's what you ought to do.

You're going to pick the opposite of me. Be careful. Be careful. Go about your business. Be careful. I'll go out my business. All right. So,

so at the risk of overreaction to the 49ers losing a couple games, If I can get Cincinnati off of an extended rest with four points, I'll just take my chances. I don't know for sure that the Bengals are going to win or anything like that, but I did see, I do think there's an interesting trade-off kind of in this game. I think the Bengals' ability to protect against the 49ers defensive front is very questionable, and especially everyone's asking, you know, everyone's asking Bosa about, Nick Bosa about why he only has two and a half sacks. Well, he's getting, he's getting pressure.

I mean, it's going to come. So this could be a bad game for the offensive line of the Bengals. But I also think it could be a bad game for the secondary of the 49ers. I think that Joe Burrow will get his, we'll get an opportunity to make some plays down the field. If you go back to their last game against Seattle and you look early in the game, they move the ball up and down the field in Seattle twice, and then Seattle just decided to cover them, played close coverage. And they can do that because they have.

have good secondary. I don't think the 49ers have that type of coverage ability. So I will take the four points with Cincinnati and, you know, probably lose that one. The other one I was going to take was, I'll just take Kansas City and give the seven against Denver. I know Denver's been playing closer games. I just think the chief offense is kind of finding its way a little bit. I could see it maybe being more of a 27-17 type of a game. Vegas must see it as 27-20. They've got 47 as a total on a seven-point spread, but I think it may just be a little bit more in the Chief's favor.

So those are my two. I'm not going to four. Try to work this back one little bit at a time. How about you? You're not going for the press on whole 16 and doubled down. I already doubled down last week, and it just blew up in my face, which is what happens those few times every, I don't even know if it's every year, but at least every couple years I do like to go play some blackjack.

And because I play infrequently and not for high stakes, sometimes I will just double down just for the fun of it. And sometimes you have to leave the table with no money, and that's what happened to me last week. I love it. I do think there's some cool games this weekend. I wouldn't want to necessarily bet on them, but I like some of the matchups.

I like the Jets Giants matchup. It has a lot of interest to me for a lot of reasons, and some of that is everybody likes to see a good train wreck every now. them, but we're seeing backup quarterbacks in action. I don't know that I would pick that game, but I would probably lean a little bit toward the Jets in that I really have newfound respect for the Jets defense, and I'm sure our listeners are saying, you idiot, we've always told you the Jets are good on defense. But I hadn't seen it until our last time out. So I think that can be problematic for the Giants. I'm not going to pick the game, but I think it's interesting. The Steelers in

Jacksonville is a really interesting game to me. I like the Steelers in this game. I don't like the offensive coordinator at Pittsburgh, and that makes me nervous, so I'm staying away from that. You're doing halfway picks here? No, I'm not doing any picks. These aren't picks. Okay. These are non-picks. My point is there are some interesting games that had my attention for a minute or two. You mentioned... Like a lure in the water, and you almost struck it, but you just have to swim away. Staying away. I'm not a bass looking for a new lure. Just, I'm not going to bite it. I'm going to go back under the weeds and wait for something that I know is for sure. Same with the Carolina Houston game. You're going to wait for me to

follow right through the Lily Pets. You know, Stroud against Young. I think Stroud is further along down the learning curve than Young. We talked about that. But I think this might be Carolina's best chance to win. So I'm staying away from that one. Staying away from that. The two games I'm going to pick are one.

I like your game of Cincinnati against San Francisco. I just like the other side. That's all. I am influenced by San Francisco losing twice. I think they're onry. In fact, I think they're downright pissed. I just think I don't care who plays quarterback. I don't care if it's purdy.

or Sam Darnold, doesn't matter. I think the 49ers are going to come out with a little different level of intensity. They could be beat down a little bit. They've lost a couple tough, hard-fought road games. I think they're going to be at home a little bit re-energized. I think it could be a long day for Joe Burrow.

I really do. I think the defense has to find a way to pressure him. I think they'll be more aggressive. I think they will come after him. And you mentioned the offensive line of the Bengals being problematic. I think in this case, I'm going to give the year four points, and I'll take the 49ers.

The other game I like is I like the Falcons going to Tennessee, giving two and a half points. And really, it's a process of reverse deduction, if that's even a phrase. I don't like where Tennessee is going on with quarterbacks. If Tanny Hill can't play, for sure, I'm not going to pick Tennessee in any fashion. Their backups, the guys they've drafted the last two years, I don't think are NFL quarterbacks and not ready to be them. So I think the Falcons' defense is very good. And I think their quarterback Desmond Ritter's made a little bit of strides.

If he can learn how to tuck the ball away and not fumble going in for a touchdown, that goes a long ways. So I like the Falcons, and I'll give the two and a half. So my two picks this week are Atlanta and San Francisco. The Atlanta one did tempt me. That was when I swam up to. And I wonder, too, what do you think? The reason I didn't do it was because a little bit of not trusting the turnover potential

of Ritter, There's a little bit of... Valid. There's a little bit of high variance in there. Like, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if they sack fumbled him twice and scored or something. You know, that just scares me a little bit. But I totally love the fundamentals. I also wonder, you know, where's Tennessee at just emotionally?

They trade Kevin Byard. People are wondering what's going to happen with, like, how juiced up... This is an interesting challenge for Rabel probably this week, you know? And... But it just... Yeah, yeah, I think it's a good pick. It's just, I'm just not 100% sure where everyone's at in the game for Tennessee. But Atlanta, like Atlanta wins last week, but it's like they score 16 points.

I understand. Now they should have had, shoot, the guys run into the end zone when he fumbles the ball, Ritter. So it should have been more. But yeah, I think it's a very interesting game. Interesting. There were two things off of this. So let's just do this. interesting because it has to do with the games we picked. There's just two things. One, Mike

Vrable, defensive coach, managing quarterbacks, getting a little testy in the press conference. That was an awesome, that's awesome bite from his press conference. He told one guy in the press core, he's like, you look ridiculous. What are you doing with your hands? Like the guy was trying I'm picturing some guy in class with his hand up, you know, like. He was killing the poor guy. Yeah, he's killing the guy. He got a little testy, but it was kind of funny to me. He just want to talk about the quarterbacks probably anyway. The defensive guy probably just, he's a defensive toughness coach. He's a linebacker.

He's a linebacker. Yeah. So just the whole management of that and his testing this around it, I just think it was interesting. The other thing was, Kyle Shanahan really called out Steve Wilkes in his comments. More than I, that's interesting to me. Usually coaches kind of defend their fellow coaches. You know, we saw, I thought Mike,

Tomlin did an interesting thing this week when he was asked about Matt Canada, and specifically was asked about the first 15 plays of the game and why do they need to change their script. I thought Tomlin was pretty darn good. He said, hey, look, we don't think we need to make a change right now. I'll give you an example of two plays in the first 15 that were schemed up pretty darn good, and on one of them, the ball was thrown out of bounds. I mean, that should have been a huge play. another one, just a very basic protection issue by one player.

I'm not pinning that on the coach. If those two plays just go like normal, no one's asking us. I thought it was an interesting way to sort of defend your coach. Kyle Shanahan, basically, there was no protecting Steve Wilkes for the end of half all-out blitz call that led to the Cousin's deep touchdown. pass, which wasn't excusable. But I thought that was just kind of interesting to me. I just filed that in the back of my mind with Kyle saying that.

Did it was that strike you in any way? I actually like it a lot too, Mike. I like the accountability. I don't necessarily always think that you're better off not saying. I think sometimes you have to hold people accountable. I thought we saw Steve Wilkes stand up and take it like a man too. He said, I take full responsibility. It was a dumb call.

I shouldn't have done it. blah, blah, blah. Well, I think you can hold people accountable and sometimes it takes publicly to do it. You don't have to embarrass them. Yeah. But I think we could probably do a whole segment on this show every week of things like that, of Frank Reich bristling, of Mike Vrable's comments to that guy, of what Shanahan did. We probably should have a little microphone session of analyzing what some of these coaches say. I think it'd be very interesting. Yeah, I thought that's notable. And so maybe in a situation like this when it's so obvious, maybe you do more good in your locker room and everybody when, hey, you know what, when the coaches grew up, we say it too. Now, I like it when they say it about

themselves too. Now, Kyle Shannon didn't have a moment like that in the game probably so there was nothing to say. But I like it when they're able to say it on themselves when it's true and on others when it's true. It could have been that a couple players came up to Kyle Shanahan and said, what the hell are we doing? And so Kyle Shanahan has no choice but to acknowledge it. And to the rest of his team, the message is, hey, I'm not going to cover for everybody all the time. What about ultimately I'm the head coach and I needed to step in there and say we're not doing this or no, it's happening too fast when you're calling the defense. He has no clue what they're calling.

Trust me, all these coaches say they do, they're not going to come in and say something different. He's probably worried about something on offense, you know. He may be on a different channel on the headset while the defense is being called, trying to figure out, you know. That's a hard shift to make in your mind to be the play caller and the same. same time, the filter for what we do on every snap on defense. You're trusting your veteran defense coach not to do Greg Williams at the end of the game

a couple years ago play, you know, and it happened here and everyone was ticked off about it, and it might have cost them the game, really. No doubt. I mean, among many things in that game that could have cost them the game. So interesting going forward, we made it. Thanks, everybody, for coming along. You can find Randy Mueller on X at Randy Mueller underscore. You can find me there at Sando NFL.

You can find us both at The Athletic. and right here on the Athletic Football Show feed, we will talk to you next week. This was the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast.