The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Dan Snyder explores sale of Commanders, Dolphins trade for Bradley Chubb, the Bears deal for Chase Claypool & more NFL trade deadline takeaways

Episode Date: November 3, 2022

Mike Sando and former GM Randy Mueller discuss Dan Snyder’s statement about potentially selling the Commanders as well as the report of an upcoming federal investigation. Then, they dive into the NFL trade deadline and the teams who made moves and who didn’t. They talk about what the Dolphins gave up for Bradley Chubb, the Lions dealing T. J. Hockenson within the division, the high price tag for Chase Claypool and much more. Follow Mike on Twitter: @SandoNFLFollow Randy on Twitter: @RandyMueller_Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube4:08 Dan Snyder under federal investigation & considers sale of Commanders12:47 Teams that weren’t active at the deadline (Packers & Cowboys)21:45 Dolphins trade for Bradley Chubb27:14 Lions T. J. Hockenson in division to Vikings35:54 Steelers get 2nd rd pick for Chase Claypool39:19 Bills acquire Nyheim Hines from Colts41:48 Jaguars trade for Calvin Ridley44:17 GM Notebook (Kadarius Toney, CMC)53:17 Week 9 picks Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome everybody with the Football GM podcast heading into 2022 week nine. I'm Mike Sandow from The Athletic, along with the GM, Randy Mueller. Mr. Mueller, how you doing? Doing great, Mike. I survived a Halloween without having to dress up again. So that was a good thing for me. I don't know how you did at your house, but no, I don't dress up for the, you know, I was working.

I don't dress up for the Halloween parties. my high school son had multiple costumes. He went to a party that was called a rhyme no reason party. Rime, no reason. So what it means is you and your dates, you're in your date, whatever you are has to rhyme, but for no reason. So he was Kenny G. And his girlfriend was Bumblebee.

He dressed as Kenny G. carrying around a section. I got to give him credit for even knowing who Kenny G is, but he plays a saxophone. So he has. I thought that was kind of fun and better him than me. But answered the door a couple times, you know, that type of stuff. But we've got tricks and treats here this week.

A treat to Washington Commander fans. And really, the league at large and in general is that we could be seeing a sale of the former Washington football team. Now the Washington commanders, we'll get into that. Randy has a different angle on that, just from his experience in the GM chair. We got tons of trade stuff. We'll talk about the Packers and Cowboys that didn't even make trades. We'll go through all the big trades. We've got Randy's GM notebook, something on there for Cadarius Tony, Giants to Chiefs.

We've got a little bit more on Denver, Christian McCaffrey, a couple other things in there. We get to our pick segment, which Randy reminded me of the one that I missed last week. I'm sorry. I had a good excuse for that. We actually had a pretty good week on the picks. Before we get into all that, Randy, football GM podcast, I know you never like to talk about yourself, but you are the, is it director of player personnel for the Seattle C-Dry? Dragons. What's going on with the XFL? You're, you're, you, you're, you, is he right now? I mean, what's up? You know what? It's been kind of ongoing. And I appreciate you mentioning that. I am going to run the Seattle team with coach Jim Haslett. And we have a history together.

and anxious to bring that version of what we think is a pretty good football vision to Seattle. So, yeah, we've been working on this team really for about six months, and it's getting down to where we have a draft to populate our rosters in November, so we're kind of winding that part down. But it's been fun. We've got a great group of guys, coaches-wise, that all I've worked with in the past for the most part. And, hey, when you get to be my age, it's really about the people you're around. And the process has been fun.

And I think Seattle people, Seattle people, Seattle people in particular will enjoy watching this brand of football. And I'm anxious to always have home games because, as you know, I'm a Seattleite too. So when the opportunity came up, it's hard to say no to Seattle and some kind of a project that's within your own walls. So looking forward to it. That'll be fun. You got June Jones on the staff there, right? So some familiar names.

Yeah, June and I were together with the roughnecks back a couple years ago and XFL 2.0 and got off to a 5-0 start before the Pan. pandemic shut everything down. So it'll be fun. Dwayne Johnson obviously is the main owner of this league. And he's doing it the right way. And obviously the TV deal is with ESPN and all of their partners. So it's going to be fun. It's going to start in January and be kind of a cool deal.

We'll play our home games in Lumen Field. And looking forward to that. I have spent very little time at Lumen Field because that came after I was long gone from the Seahawks. So I made us to kind of see what it's all about. Absolutely. No, it is a good place to watch a game. I did go to, before we shut down with the pandemic there, I did take my boys over there.

In fact, we sat in a box with Lof with the Tupu. He was hanging out. Really, really, really fun. I covered Lofa back in the day when he was on the Seahawks, and I was the Seattle Seahawks beatwriter back then. Let's get to the news of the day here, Randy. It was kind of interesting, and everybody's who, you know, gets announcements from teams in their email inbox this morning like I do and other reporters, hey Daniel Snyder may be selling the Washington commanders. And then, oh, by the way, later, the ESPN report came out.

The federal prosecutors were opening a criminal investigation into allegations the commanders engaged in. Financial improprieties. That could give us an idea as to the why of this. But bad day for Daniel Slinder, probably a good day for the league. Yeah, I think you're probably right in the long run. I think I was not surprised by the fact that he was going to, at least consider selling the team.

Usually when you get this far, you've made up your mind that eventually you are going to sell the team. I think it had been rumored to where he would eventually come to this. I'm not sure how to advance the story because we've kind of thought this was going to be it. But eventually this team's going to be sold for more money than any professional team in North American history. I can promise you that. So we've talked a little bit about why the value and how it's come to this for the Washington football team. and it's going to go off the charts. Dan Snyder will have his pockets lined.

The other NFL owners will drive their own value of their franchises way high. And it's a valuable commodity to have that not many people can afford. So I think what doesn't surprise me either was the fact that we were able to see Roger Goodell at work, see the other owners at work. It was going to be hard for them to force Dan Snyder to publicly sell it. team. But this work has all been done behind the scenes. They can push, they can advise, they can do about everything to get us to this point. But eventually Dan has to pull the trigger. And it sounds to me like there's, you know, where there was enough smoke, there was fire. And that's what, you know, I think is going to in the end benefit everybody if this sale goes through.

Such a storied franchise too, Randy. You know, just for me, you know, growing up in the in the 80s, kind of when Joe Gibbs really had it going. And, you know, it's just hard to have a good feeling about the team in recent years, really the last 15, 20 years because of the owner. It's really hung over everything. I'm sure you do too. I know people, you know, on the coaching staff there who work there. And just when you think there's a little bit of sunshine coming through,

something else comes down to remind you that you're working for this guy, you know. And it's just a little bit of a downer, a big downer. you have been worked for all kinds of different types of owners. In fact, you were with the CX when they had really good ownership, the Nordstrom family. You were there when they had bad ownership, the Bering family. You were there with good ownership again a little bit for a while, a few years with Paul Allen, right? A couple of years. Yep.

And certainly you've been a lot of places, Miami Saints, Chargers. You've seen enough things to have a feel for what impact ownership actually makes. I've always kind of asked if bad ownership really ever has overcome. What do you think about working for different types of owners and maybe specifically of that situation? Is it a huge downer and drag on just trying to win games? I will say this. From the football side, it's been different for me.

Like you said, I've worked for multiple owners and different franchises. And I think the only time it becomes a drag is when you on the football side know that, and you've done it enough times to get to this point within that franchise, when you know the answer is going to be no, it's hard on the football guys to continue to try to develop and show and work toward a vision of what you want to have on the football field. And I've been unfortunately, been involved with a couple of those groups where there was just so many hurdles to be able to do what you want to do

that it really makes it hard. And in this particular case, in the Washington commander's case, I think this could be problematic for the football side if this does linger. Oh, you mean the sale itself could be? The sale itself, yes. Okay. If this sale, and it's going to take some time, but if it lingers into the offseason, which it probably will, and maybe an owner hasn't been even identified by March,

Dan Snyder's going to put the brakes on spending money, if you follow me. Yeah. They're going to have to do some things in the off season to shore this team up and kind of produce what they need to do to get better because they're not there yet. And that could be problematic if he hasn't found an owner. Now, I was lucky when I was in Seattle. You mentioned the Bering family owned a team. And by the way, they were not bad owners to us on the inside.

They completely let us run the franchise as we wanted to. And we're very supportive from a both cash standpoint and a support standpoint from us on the inside. So although they tried to move the team to California at one point, that was bad for the fans and for everybody involved, but they treated us as employees really good. So when Ken Bering decided to sell the team, he ended up selling it to Paul Allen. Well, we had about a three-month window in there where that transaction, all the details of it were being worked out. Well, it happened to carry into the spring and in through a draft. And so me, as kind of the lead decision maker, it was like working for two owners with two ownership groups that had totally separate agendas.

You know, Ken didn't want to spend any money. I understood that. Why would you want to spend money? He's trying to get out. Yeah, why would Dan Snyder want to spend money now if he knows he's going to sell it? Just flushing money down the tube. And then Paul Allen, on the other end, he's not 100% sure he's going to get the team yet because the final thing hadn't closed, the final sale hadn't closed.

So he's a little intrepid too. But in the end, this happens to be during the draft where we ended up getting Sean Springs and Walter Jones. And we traded up twice in the first round to get him. when trading up really mattered cash-wise. You had to pay a lot more to move up in the draft. And so this was an issue for ownership groups. And so it was like going to two different ownership groups.

Now, Ken said, I don't want to do that. Don't be trading up. That's going to cost us another $10 million. But at the same time, Paul said, I want to do what's right for this franchise. So it was like a negotiation. I'll pay this. The outgoing owner pays that. Is that really?

Did Paul kick in for that draft? 100%. He ended up paying for all of the additional signs. bonuses that came with regard to that sale. So that's what I'm saying. It's tricky as heck when you're dealing with multiple ownership groups because control of the franchise and control of the asset is at the end of the day only valuable to one of them because the sale price has already been determined.

So yes, I remember having to go to Ken Bering and say, hey, we have a chance to do this. We can get Walter Jones. We can get Sean Springs. But it's going to cost this money. Well, okay, if you can get the other side to pay the freight. Now you're like, hey, trust me, my eval is good here because the new owner doesn't know if Walter Jones is a tackler or a guard, right? Well, at the time, Bob Witts, it was acting as the president for Paul Allen. And so Bob and I were kind of negotiating with each other at times, says, you sure you want to do this?

Yeah, I'm sure I want to do this. I'm 100%. But as the GM or the head decision maker, it's a lot more pressure on you because you're right. You have to suffice two leaders, two owners with information that makes them all comfortable. So my point is, sorry for the long-witted answer, if this goes into next spring, it will matter if they have an owner selected where the sales transaction is when it comes to draft time or even before that when it comes to free agency in March. So that's my point. I think it could bleed into the offseason and make it a little problematic for the football guys, for sure. Fascinating.

Yep. So we'll see how this thing plays out. We'll see. I don't think they're going to get a worse owner probably. certainly not going to get a less popular owner. They're not going to get a, I guess nowadays, Randy, this is just every, to get into this club, it's billions upon billions of dollars. So it's a certain type of owner and they're going to have means and they're going to be able to spend money.

It doesn't mean they always will want to, but they're going to at least be able to. And I think we're further away from those days of the bomb and pop league, aren't we? Yeah, there's no doubt about it. You're probably going to get an owner that's there every day and wants to control, you know, as much as he can. and I get it. You're talking about multiple billions of dollars. And that's the difference, right? Those owners that are there every day are in the middle of all this sometimes can be very emotional and not really understanding of the information that they're getting.

So that is good and bad as well. Absolutely. Yep. So let's get into some of the trade stuff. I thought it would be interesting to talk about a couple teams that did not make trades. Sure. Green Bay was won. And obviously they came into the season of light at wide receiver anyway after the Devante say Adam's trade drafted a couple guys, not huge impacts right away. They've had an injury or two along the way.

And then the deadline comes and we see a flurry of moves around the league. We don't see them do anything. It's funny. I was talking to a guy from a team last night who said, I don't know if they are afraid to take a risk or make a move or maybe they don't know how. What are your optics on Green Bay? And just that, it seems like, you know, people used to criticize sometimes Ted Thompson, who was a really good football guy, but for not being active, quote

unquote, doesn't seem like a lot's changed. No, I agree. And those are two good optical points made by whoever you were talking to, because that would be the first thing I would come to. And it kind of relates to what we just talked about. I think Green Bay, for the most part, has an advantage for not having a direct owner that's there every day, holding everybody accountable, at least for the football people or to the decision makers.

I think in this case, had they had somebody that was, could have pushed them over the top to do it. The thing is, Brian Gutikist, who I know, like, good good at his job, he's just never been anywhere else. So he doesn't know how that works, you know, Mark. Yeah. Murphy, the president. Murphy, the president. Never been anywhere else, really, as a decision maker, so he doesn't know how this works. There's a lot of places that the owner would have said, do you think Jim Ursay would have just stayed out of this and not got involved in this?

I was thinking this, too. Are they like calling, what do they call Ron Wolf? How do we do this, Ron? I mean, you're totally at the mercy of the personality of the decision makers. And in this case, nobody really pushed. So I think the answer is yes to both of those. One, they don't know really how. And two, they've never done it before.

So they don't really know, you know, how to pull the trigger or have experience pulling to trigger. I think it's the hard part for me is I know the people involved. I like them. But I couldn't have not made a deal and gone down. downstairs and walk through the locker room. I just couldn't do it. We lost four games in a row. I'm going to do everything I can to make a deal. In fact, I might do everything I can and we talked about it on the podcast last week to make two or three deals. I don't think a particular deal was going to

matter as much on the field as some of the fans and everybody else said they need to make a deal. I don't think it's going to matter as much as the message itself in what it tells those players in the locker room. I think that's the big thing. And so I struggled with them not making a deal. not that Brandon Cooks or Claypool or one of these other guys wouldn't have made them better. I just, how do you go down and say now, hey, I know, buck up. We're going to be okay. You know, we're going to come out of this. Having done everything you can, do you think they really care if you give away a second round pick next year?

Or if you guarantee $18 million on a contract next year? They don't care. These players don't care about that. They want to know what you're going to do for them right now. So that's where I struggled a little bit. Yeah, and finding a way. And some of those contracts you're acquiring are hard to do. I mean, for their cap situation with Rogers on a huge deal, it'd be hard to guarantee fully $18 million next year.

I get that part of it, but you've had since April. On April 2nd, Randy, Mark Murphy, the president of that team, said, hey, we got a long time until September. And there's a long, we got draft capital, we got all kinds of things. That receiver room is going to look a lot different because there was concerns after Devante Adams was traded. And sure, they drafted, you know, they drafted Christian Watson. And they, you know, they signed Sammy Watkins. but those aren't, you know, those aren't now moves, really. I mean, Sammy Watkins is whatever.

And Sammy Watkins is just a plug, just to plug in there. But you've had, if we're talking then since April, you've had, that's a lot of time to figure something out. If you really had to figure out some way to make some kind of a creative move, to get somebody to play wide receiver or even a tight end or something, couldn't you have done it? I would think so. I mean, we saw two receivers, you know, one,

Brandon Cook's didn't move, but Claypools got moved. And to be honest with you, I don't really care what the cost is within reason. You know, I just think they needed to make these moves. If you had both of them, you don't think you'd be viewed a little different when people line up defensively against you. Absolutely. It just looked like we're doing something. Yeah.

Yeah. But I also think they could, two guys would have really mattered as well. And I have nothing against these young guys that they've drafted. I just know this from experience. It is a hard position to plug and play these kids off the street. It takes a long time to learn what you're doing. defenses find ways to throw you off your game. We've seen these guys go up and down.

You just can't have that up, down one week, you know, all over the place results from their development. And I think that's what you're seeing in Green Bay. So I would have made a couple moves for sure. And I think the moves were out there to make. Somebody said they offered the same for Claypools, a second round pick, but the Steelers didn't think it would be high enough. So kick in another pick. Who cares? Pick in a fifth.

You think that really matters? I would just, I would do whatever I had to do to make the deal and I wouldn't let Omar Khan off the phone until we made a deal. That's all. Yep, you have to make the deal. Even if we can talk about the fit or what is going to do, you're talking about the message we're sending to our team and giving us a guy. Right. Right now. So, all right.

Let's talk about Dallas, too. No trades at the deadline for them. And they had apparently or reportedly had talks involving the acquisition of Brandon Cooks from Houston. Cooks does have that 18 million guaranteed in 2020. I think it's really easy to look at that team and say, well, tough to do. Dak Prescott's $49 million cap number next year. But there's Willers away. And by the way, I think Zeke Elliott's contract next year is the problem, a $17 million number there that they're committed to.

Maybe they can get out of it. Maybe they will. But for Dallas, Randy, for Jerry Jones's reputation as being a Wheeler and dealer, maybe not that much different from Green Bay. Yeah, I think that, I think the things that he said were all. salesman based and it was really a lot of hot air trying to say that we were in the middle of this deal. We couldn't settle on this. I got news for you. That's every deal is like that. If you're the greatest dealmaker ever, I'm just a young kid from Idaho, okay? I can make deals. I can promise you I can. And you can too if you're willing to find a common ground and do what you got to do

to get him. That just told me he really didn't want to make a deal, but he wanted everybody to know that he was trying to make a deal. So it fell on deaf ears for me as an explanation for why they didn't do it. Frankly, I'm not sure the Cowboys needed to do it anyway. I think it's more important for the Cowboys to have now found a game plan that Kellyn Moore has instituted on this offense. And I think it's more important for them to stick to it more than anything else.

So maybe another toy, another bell and whistle on the outside of the perimeter, maybe have been counterproductive in my mind. I think they've found what they need to do. Yeah, so I agree with that. I would want if I was them to add, you know, to add talent and have the best of both worlds. Have it there

are available because there's going to be times you have to go in the passing lane and hammer the gas down to get around an obstacle, right? I think obviously the way they're set up with their defense and their run game and Daxa can manage the game, they're going to win a lot of games that way. But ultimately to push deep and maybe overcome a Philly in a big playoff game or get to the Super Bowl, that sort of a thing, it feels to me like they do still need that other gear available. Do you think they can have that, Randy? Do you think they're just sort of ceilinged right now with what they're.

have an offense where they can be good they can play their script they can play to their game plan they have enough juice there to really push i think their one gauge is going to be that game with philly and they were in that game for a while but clearly weren't good enough but they're going to say we did we had that game without dac yeah so when dat comes back that's going to push us over the top so i think they think and and i would probably agree i don't think they should have mortgaged anything too much to to make this team better i do think they're hanging their head on dac taking them to the next level, a place where Cooper Rush could not. So I think that's probably their plan. Is it good enough? I don't know. I think San Francisco has made waves. They're kind of in the mix now for me.

Minnesota is maybe not completely believable, but they're in the hunt. And then Philly is just that much better than all of them. So right now I don't think Dallas has enough, but it doesn't mean they can't execute better and do things better internally to push them at least closer to Philly at the end of the day. They're going to play them two more times. They're going to going to play them once in the regular season and probably play them again in the playoffs at some point. And that's significantly better than Cooper Rush, wouldn't you? Yeah, I agree with that.

If he's right, especially in this system now that they've employed that Kellyn has kind of changed things around to where not just building stats and yardage, we're actually playing to win the game. If he does that, I think they have a better chance. Yep. Okay, let's move on to the next trade. Denver Trades Bradley Chubb pass rusher in a 2025 fifth to Miami. for a 2023 first that was acquired from San Francisco.

Currently, would be 20th in the order, plus a 224-4 and running back Chase Edmonds. Interesting here. What way do you want to go with this one? I got a couple thoughts, but I'm curious what strikes you. Well, I like the trade, obviously, for this year, for Miami. I don't know about paying him $20 million a year, and that's coming at some point.

So there is a next step. But I do like it for Denver from this standpoint. Denver plays a three-four scheme. They're in base coverage, base defense a lot. Bradley Chubb is not an outside linebacker. I know he has five and a half sacks and every talking head in the world thinks he's an elite rusher. He's really not an elite rusher. He's not Vaughn Miller, not in my opinion, not even close to that.

And he's really not a linebacker. That's the fit problem that, hey, I worked for Nick Sabin in Miami. George Payton worked for me and who worked for Nick Sabin in Miami. So he comes from the same school of thought that it's all about fit for that front seven. and I'm not sure Bradley Chubb fits exactly what they're doing. The trade told me two things from Denver standpoint. One, Chubb doesn't fit perfectly and two, we can't afford him next year. So let's get what we can right now and move on.

They have some other parts in Denver. I made a trade like this one time in Miami. We traded Chris Chambers, a well-known receiver, a good player, by most people's opinion. We traded him to San Diego for a second round pick on trade deadline. week. And so we did a similar thing. And everybody said to me, why are you just giving up? Why are you throwing the white flag? George Payton said yesterday, this wasn't a deal made based on our record at all. And it resonated with me because of that. We didn't trade Chris Chambers for that reason because we weren't good. We traded him because we had some better options and other options. And we were going to

lose him the next year. So I really think George thinks he has other options. And when you look at the tape, they do. They have a kid that they drafted in the third round before George. got there, Draymont Jones, who's an outside rusher, he's an inside rusher, he's really more of a linebacker than Bradley Chubb is. So they have some movable parts, is all I'm saying. They can move some things around and find guys that are more perfectly fitted and worry about paying those guys down the road. So I understand it from Denver standpoint. Miami's got to do something to get over the hump to get in the mix with Buffalo, to get in the mix with Kansas City while they can and while too is healthy. Who knows how long he's going to be healthy. So they're going to try to keep them at the

forefront. And I think this move does move Miami with the addition of Wilson, the running back from San Francisco. It puts them in that group right behind Kansas City and right behind Buffalo, in my opinion. Interesting. So is it an indictment of anything that you're doing when you can't fit a good player into your defense? Or is he just not that good of a player, Bradley Chub? I think different players have different skill sets. And New England has made a living the last 20 years on defense, especially, fitting players into that. That's where Nick Saban came from. And he made me a believer in it. Our criteria is set for exactly what we're going to do. We're going to take players that accentuate their strengths, and we're not going to put

them in position that accentuates their weaknesses. And I think this is an example of that. I think Bradley Chub is a fine player, but I think he's a hand on the ground, four three defensive end, and a subrusher, which is exactly what Miami's going to use him for. I don't think he's a three for outside linebacker. So on mixed downs, on first and second down, a lot of times, I don't know what to do with him because he's not a chase linebacker. He's not, he can set the edge a little bit without a doubt, but he's a little ankle stiff, so he's not to get too technical to people,

but he doesn't go back. He's not going to be effective in coverage. He really needs to go forward all the time. And that's what they'll have him do in Miami. In Denver, that came only in sub packages, not in base defenses. interesting that's great that's a great point because i saw this kind of from afar as geez you know wasn't he a big part of your plan and now you're you have a bad record and you're uh yeah you know it looks like you're you're saying okay let's get a pick for next year which i understand i wouldn't pay him 20 some million a year either right um he seems to me like a good player not a great player but if the fit is bad and you're convinced it's going to remain bad then all the more reason to do it and you don't necessarily see this as denver saying hey we're three and five let's sell no not at all in fact i'm not And I'm not saying Bradley Chubb isn't a good player.

I think he's a really good player. It's just not an ideal fit where he's at. And I think most people probably agree with your frame of mind and the way you thought this through 100%. No, but yours is better. That's a better. Well, I don't know if it's better. I just, I looked at the film this morning and last night. I got a couple Denver films out and said, what are we actually giving up here?

And that's why I kind of came to these conclusions. And it reminded me of when we traded Chris Chambers, who was a really good player, but wasn't going to be a great fit for us in this system. Plus, we had some other options. And I think Denver has some other options. Chris Chambers was put together, too. I remember him. Yeah, good guy too.

How about this? And a year later, or two years later, I was in San Diego. So I just follow the guys that I trade. Ricky Williams from New Orleans to Miami. Then I followed Chambers from Miami to San Diego. So I guess it's just me, the Black Cloud, that won't leave these guys alone. That's great. Let's do the Detroit trade.

That was interesting. another in-division trade. If you go back to the draft, remember the Lions and the Vikings made a trade that allowed the Lions to trade up, I believe, for the 12th pick and take Jameson Williams. The wide receiver from Alabama, correct? I think that was a pick, yeah. So as the trade deadline comes down to Detroit trades, tied in T.J. Hawkinson, who was a previous top 10 pick of the prior regime, plus a 223-4th, 224, 24-conditional 4th that would downgrade to a 5th. if Minnesota wins a playoff game. They trade him and all that to the Vikings for a 2023 second and a 2024 third.

Interesting deal in the division. First of all, I got to ask you, did you ever do in division trade? You know, I thought about it when I saw this and I cannot remember ever making a trade in the division. Could you imagine trading all my years in Seattle of somebody to Al Davis and having to play him two times every year? I mean, that drove me crazy. Now, I understand once you have conviction for a playoff. or not, it shouldn't matter where he goes. But you're either dumb or you're gutsy as hell.

So I don't know which side I would have fell on there. You know, I just didn't have the guts to do it, I guess. What do you think of Hawkinson as a player, though? And I mean, is this a good, let's just, well. Yeah. Yeah, let's attack it from the Minnesota side first. I think that's probably where people are most excited about, hey, we're six and one. Yeah.

We had lost Irv Smith to tied into an injury. Boom, we plug in Hawkinson. Sure, we give up something for the future. but hey, the NFC doesn't look all that great. We're probably playing a home game against Dallas in the playoffs. Let's go. Do you think this is a good move? Do you think it's a short-sided move?

I mean, sometimes when you make a move right after an injury, you know. I think one, the first thing is they're getting a weapon. I'm not sure they see him as a tight end. I think he's a weapon for us to use in a bunch of different ways, especially in the passing game. I've heard some people say he's a blocker. I don't know if he's a blocker. But he'll get in people's way.

He'll try to block. But I think they see him in the passing game having much more affected in the running game. From Detroit standpoint, do you think it was personal at all? Because, you know, Dan Campbell was a blocking, tough, grindy, blue-collar tight-end in the league, right? Yeah. And he sees these run-around tight-ins now that play with skirts on, and he would say, and they're afraid to get tackled in this. And they don't put their hand on the line of scrimmage and get dirty as an end-of-the-line tight-in did like he did, like Mark Bavaro did.

It's just a different time and age. I don't know if some of that filtered in or not. It's also not a premium position either. And I don't know that you could convince me, no matter how good, to draft the tight end up that high, he's still a tight end at the end of the day. We've talked about that before with, you know, obviously Kyle Pitts going high.

And I've always felt at least in recent years that a really good tight end is kind of a queen on the chessboard, though. It really does give you some flexibility. And maybe just in there, maybe just in a narrow, evaluation of the skill set, you would say this isn't a premium thing. But I think when you have one, it opens up some doors for you as an offense and a play collar, right? That aren't there as much or no, you don't buy that? I still think he's a tight end. I didn't show you there on that one. You didn't sway me. And here's my point. You've got to, the system has to get him open for the most

part. You've got to design some things to use a tight end effectively. I just, I think they would rather use the picks and pay a different mindset of a perimeter receiver or somebody like that that that we can make big plays with. They've proved over the last year and a half they can lose without T.J. Hawkinson. So we don't need him to do what we're doing now. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I see one in six. I agree with you. I think they've built a, you know, they've built a physical offensive line and they want to have that identity on offense. And shoot, they're going to be getting Jameson Williams into the offense here to some of. point. So the offense for the passing game is going to run through the two wide receivers they got

that are pretty good. Hopefully Alabama's good. And then hopefully, you know, Amonraith St. Brown has been a nice fine for them as a fourth round pick, right, a year or two ago. Should really, maybe those two guys are where you throw to. And they're looking ahead saying, look, next year, it's nine million bucks for T.J. Hawkins. And if we want to keep them after that, are we franchise tagging them for 12, 14? Not going to happen. You want to spend $20 million over the next two years. Let's get a pick for now because we need, we'll get the financial flexibility with him off the books and then look, we'll get a second round pick. We got to pick, maybe we, maybe we pick a star safety or we need to get something, we need to get something to help our defense or whatever position they need.

Yeah. Somewhere defensive line, you know, somewhere. They got to be able to help their defense in the future. They're not going any way this year. One of the things I wrote about on Monday, Randy, about the Lions was did you know that they know have a worse record in Dan Campbell's first 24 games than they had in Matt Patricia's final 24? Do you think Dan Campbell's going to be there to decide whether or not we want a running a tight end to be more of a finesse or more of a pounder? I mean, what do you think? It's hard because he's, I do think he will be there. And I think this trade is just an indication that he wants to build it different than the last regime. So I understand why they're doing it. I think the fact that Dan Campbell is the way he is has caused us not even to

notice what the record is yet until you pointed out, which I think is, is emblematic of what he stands for and kind of how he's doing business. He's, he hired two coordinators that, one, he fired last year before the season even got through on offense. It looks like the defensive is going to change again this offseason. Fired the DB coach recently. So he's made a of changes that he's hired in his first time ever hiring any coaches ever. So first time GM, Brad Holmes, first time coach Brad Campbell. Hopefully they work together on these hirings and how we want to piece this together. But I think his first coaching staff maybe lended itself to more friends and family and acquaintances than it probably should have. And he's

paying the price for that now. So I think they will give him a third year. I do think they have to show progress and they have to build the team differently, which is going to take time. I don't know. Where do you think he's moved the needle? Because I think you're right. I mean, I love the attitude. It was all that. At first, he was kind of laughed at like, oh, this is way over the top.

Then people said, hey, you know what? He's being himself. He's authentic. I think he passes the authenticity test. I mean, I like that about him. But that record is terrible. And it's hard to have a, we're a tough team mentality when you're terrible on defense. They're bad.

and they went from bad to worse on defense. The offense came out of the gates pretty good, but I don't think it's been sustained anything. And by the way, they're going to go into year three and they still have a quarterback. So what is it, what are we hanging our hat on Detroit right now? Randy, you got anything they're hanging their hat on? What do they got? Not on paper and not substantially that we can grasp, that's for sure. So it's almost like a vision of what he wants to do. I think the remake of the defense can be done. I don't know Brad Holmes well enough to know his skill set as an evaluator and he's really, it's his first team build he's ever embarked on. So what do we always say? Sometimes education is expensive and you sometimes have to take a step back before

you get it right. Yeah. But I do think their vision on what they're going to do on defense has to come at some point. There has to be some progress. And I know through the grapevine, he's trying to get better in that regard. He knows it. Dan knows it. So he's going to have to make some moves at some point to shore up that defense, both from a schematic standpoint and from a personnel standpoint. I just think we're going to have to wait, wade through these first two years before he gets it right. And sometimes that happens with a first year coach or a rookie head coach. When you hire the wrong guys, it set you back. And then you're going to need a reset after this year and a re-schemed and rethought-out plan to build the defense differently. Yeah. If I'm hanging my head on anything,

it's offensive line. I think that's something you can build around there. And, you know, and they've got a good running back. Good running back. They got a couple decent runners. You know, they have a couple, I mean, shoot, they might have a couple good receivers now too. We'll see how the rookie comes along. But I think there is somebody at the end of the tunnel on offense.

It's certainly we've seen it in spurts to be good this year. But I think it's fair to point out the record and say, hey, you know, when we got the Giants guy coming in and being six and one, you know, let's, what are we talking about here? That's right. All right. All right. Pittsburgh trades Chase Claypool to Chicago for a,

a 20, 23. I want to ask you, do you ever do a deal with Kevin Colbert when he was a gym in? I think we made a deal or two when he was an assistant in Detroit, but I don't believe I ever made a trade

with him while he's in Pittsburgh. We're about the same age, so we go through, we've gone through the whole gamut the last 35 years together, so I consider him a close friend. Yeah, I just was wondering if with Omar Khan there,

if it's any bit of a new era or of trading and that sort of a thing, or are they just in a different spot now They're in a little bit of a bad record deal, and this is just sort of what you do. Well, I think with Claypool, I don't think it was the on the field stuff. I think it's the off the field stuff, the distractions, and some of the things that he has caused them to not be Steeler-like. It's kind of like, there's certain things we're going to conduct and tolerate. Other things we're not.

Omar Khan is an administrative guy. He worked for me in New Orleans. I've known him since he was a young kid, but he's really a cap guy. And so I think this stuff makes sense to him. we're going to clean up some things and here's a chance. We're not going to be able to pay this guy. I think that's the big thing is at some point you have to pay everybody. So the contract does figure in in most of these deals.

And some teams are just electing to go different routes when it comes to team building based on finances. Yep. Yep. So do you like it going to Chicago? I think it's a good move by Chicago. I was only taken back a little bit because I don't think Chicago is a receiver or two away from being good. And would I have rather used to say? second round pick on something else possibly, but I understand they're trying to get this young

kids some weapons and that Moody, the other receiver can't do it on his own. And we have seen some daylight at the end of the tunnel on Justin Fields. So maybe this is a message like we talked about Green Bay didn't send. Maybe this is a message to, hey, we're going to help Justin Fields become a better player. And for the first time in his career, the last two weeks, we've actually seen a scheme that he can run and that makes sense. So let's give him another weapon to use. So I understand it from their standpoint. I don't know if they'll be able to keep Claypool and pay him and all that, but hey,

it's giving up a second round pick. They've acquired some picks throughout Ryan Poles' first year. So again, I would like to wait to see how the rest of this team build plays out before you say, yay or nay, with regard to one trade of Chase Claypool. Yeah, and Claypool is under contract next year at a low number. get more than just, it's not just a half-season rental or something. I think it does probably help them, you know, at least, like I feel somewhat, you know, when you're on a team like that, you're in a rebuild, you get rid of the linebacker, Roquan Smith, you trade Robert Quinn. It's sort of

nice to throw your locker room, hey, you know, guys, we're not, you know, we're excited about, and then you have a little bit of buzz the last couple weeks over Justin Fields. He's looked better. They've run the offense with designed rushes. And now you get this and to me, it's just sort of like, okay, hey, you know what, this is, if we lot, if this wasn't the absolute best value or if Klee Poole's just not the cleanest guy, you know what, we just got, we're real happy to unload these other guys who didn't want to be here and was going to cost a lot of money. And so, you know, this is a little bit of a rebound. And now let's go. Hey, guys. Let's go. I think you're making my point. The message matters. Yeah. And the message upstairs can send it downstairs in the locker room matters a lot.

Yep. Okay. We had the Colts trade, Naheem Hines to Buffalo for Zach. Ross, Zach Moss, sorry, in a 2023 conditional sixth. I couldn't really figure this out. Had heard, I think, that, you know, Heinz may have won it out of there, but I don't know how you feel about that, Randy. I think Matt Ryan probably wanted to still be the quarterback. I don't think that may can still be the quarterback. So, yeah, otherwise, you're saving some money. I don't know. What do you see from Indy doing this? I don't really understand it from Indy standpoint. Every time I watch Indy play and I would see this Heinz kid play, I would say, why do we, why do we not seeing more of this guy?

And I understand Jonathan, the runner that is, Taylor. Taylor is good. I get it. But I always wanted to see more of this Heinz kid. Every time they'd throw him the ball, he's making a playdown field. And I think Buffalo is adding a weapon. I think they're adding another big time weapon in the passing game for Josh Allen. And he can do more for them than is Zach Moss.

I don't know what Zach Moss does coming back with Indy because he's going to be less, I think, talented than Heinz, especially in. in the passing game. And I just, I don't know what Indies accomplished another than moving one for another. And they're not going to play Moss either. So. Yeah, not sure it makes sense. It makes sense there.

It doesn't save money. But I'm intrigued by the piece added to Buffalo because this is somebody who really can make a catch of the ball. Did you see in the game last week, Alinger probably should have hit him for a touchdown, but the pass was a little off. It was kind of, might have been a wheel rat or something coming out of the left sideline. And shoot, he made an adjustment that you'd like to say. see your wide receiver make, you know, he caught it on the outside shoulder and got it in his hands. And, you know, it was a pretty nice play. So, you're not the type of thing you see from every

running back, that's for sure. I think Ken Dorsey will scheme them things up where that Heinz will be targeted and he'll be a factor in the long run. So I like it. I'm very interested to see. This is a type of player that in a playoff game against Kansas City sneaks out of the backfield and makes a big play or something. And you go, oh, yeah, that's why they got that guy, you know. I like the fact that Brandon Bean was still aggressive. And everybody's picking Buffalo to go all the Super Bowl. Yeah. He's not resting on his hands.

He's trying to get better in every way. And I think you've got to credit these teams that are willing to swing and not go up there looking for a walk. And look, remember, they went and got Von Miller, too. They didn't have to do that. And then they paid them in a kind of a risky way. You know, they gave them a bunch of guaranteed money for multiple years. But they're saying, hey, we're in and we're going for it.

When else are we going to go for it, you know? So I really like that move from their standpoint. An interesting one that's not going to help right away was Atlanta trading Calvin Ridley, kind of a forgotten man. He's been suspended for a gambling thing. Right. Had some issues there in Atlanta. They've obviously drafted Kyle Pitts. They drafted the big receiver from USC, both of those guys in the top 10. And now they trade Ridley to Jacksonville for a 2023-5, 2004 conditional four that can be upgraded if basically if the Jaguar is like Ridley, if he hits incentives or they pay him, that sort of a thing. Right.

What do you think? It's kind of a forgotten player. I think Ridley is a really good player. I'll be honest with you. There's a lot of what ifs in here, and it has made me snicker. There's so many ifs in here. I wanted to say, what's the old saying if my grandma should be my grandpa? There's just so many what ifs in here. I don't know.

This sounds like the kind of deal that a couple cap guys would draw up, to be honest, with a couple salary cap smart guys. Because I'm not sure I could follow along as a football guy. But I like it for Jacksonville. It's a trade that we'll never see until next year. We'll put it on the shelf. and see where it comes back. But I think he gives Jacksonville a weapon

and a nice player to come back to you next year. And for what? You tell me a conditional fourth round pick? Yeah. I'll take it. I'll take it. It doesn't, yeah, do anything between now and then to prolong the expulsion from the league.

Yeah, you know what it reminded me a little bit of when Trent Balke, the Jaguars GM was in San Francisco. He was always like, hey, we're going to, we got Marcus Latimore in the fifth round, or we got tank carotene. You know, these guys who were injured and you think, hey, you know what, we're getting them at a discount, and then that's going to really pay off because this guy's

actually, it's kind of like that defensive tackle that Oakland took Hearst, remember that? Yeah. We got Hurst in the fifth round, man. This guy's a top 10 talent. Yeah, but he's got lung problems. Yeah, but then like almost 75% of the time, the guy ends up not, there's a reason why he went that late.

So at least in this case, it wasn't that big of a pick, but I did think of that with bulky. And that's a valid point. I didn't connect those dots, but you're right. Balky's made a history of this. He's buying a lottery ticket. He's like, hey, man, this thing could hit for the powerball right here. You start picking out of the house in a new neighborhood.

Then you realize, oh, yeah, the odds are not really that high. So we'll see. There's obviously, I think, you know, Atlanta's, I understand moving on and just get something for something that was a lost situation where they're at. Yeah, I guess. I mean, he wasn't going to factor in this year. It gives him a mid-round pick next year. Yeah. All right.

Let's open up the GM notebook. What do you got in there this week? Well, a couple things, and not to dwell on the negative, but the Giants traded Cadarius Tony to Kansas City last week. You're talking about a really fast, explosive dude, man, a guy that can change the game in every way. And I was thinking, how bad does he have to be as a character? How bad does he have to be work ethic-wise for Joe Shane to say, I want no part of this young, fast, game-changing athletic player? And that's what I thought. So I'm thinking, wow, wait a second.

Is there something so shady about this guy that obviously they wanted him out of their locker room? Him and Brian Dayball decided they wanted no part of this kid. He's only one year in the league. But I'll tell you what, when you watch him play, you might think you're watching Tyreek Hill at times because that's how sudden and fast this kid is. So I'm anxious to see what they get out of this in Kansas City. Now, they've been rolling the roll of dice. Tyreek Hill, that was it the roll of the dice. Kareem Hunt, the running back, roll of the dice.

And I say roll of dice because there was character and baggage stuff that followed them. There's obviously some baggage stuff here that we don't know about with Tony, whether he just refused to practice or whatever. And so, I mean, that could be the case. But Andy Reid's pretty tolerant. So we'll see where this goes. But that one just, the question came up in my mind. I would have a hard time running off that.

But I guess if he never wants to play, that's a hard one to evaluate. Well, yeah, so if you're in the Giants, though, you're in the very beginning stages of trying to set your culture and what we stand for and how we're going to do things. Back to the message. And you don't have 10, you don't have Pat Mahomes and Travis Kelsey in that locker room. And as good as job of dayball done, he's not Andy Reed, you know, with 30 years in the game and Super Bowls and coach Brett Farve and all of this stuff. So do you buy that where you go matters a lot with somebody like that? Or do you think Tiger doesn't change stripes? And he's going to be a problem there. I don't know. I know this. He's going to be a fast problem for Kansas City. So you kind of like it. If you're Kansas City, you're like, shoot. I'm just saying, coach. I mean, does he really have to practice on Wednesday? Is it that big a deal? I know this. Even if you never throw him the ball, they got to defend us different. Okay. Just tell him to go deep. So I don't know. I really don't know how it's going to work out. That's why the question came up. How bad does it really have to be? I was trying to think. Did you ever pick up someone like that? I was trying to think of someone like that who had a reputation and they were just incredibly electric.

Guisted. So Ricky Waters had a little bit of that. The running back. He wasn't fast like that, but he was really good. Ricky's thing, though, was he was just so passionate about the game. And I think he was misunderstood. Like, he cared so much about it. You know, he was like over the top emotionally, right?

But he wasn't a bad, you know, was he? It wasn't a bad guy. No, I don't know if I've ever encountered one like this where, again, I don't know the details. behind why. Yeah. Why? Yeah. And I understand if a guy didn't want to practice, I get it, especially when you're in

the position that the Giants people are in. Yep. Andy might get something more out of him and he may, hey, he's willing to take a swing. I guess I can kind of see it from both sides. I kind of like it from their standpoint of Kansas City of where you're at. And I like the idea that they're trying stuff, you know, unlike Green Bay. And they got Pat Mahomes. And we're going to spread the field.

And we're going to do this. And guess what? He practiced the first day he got there. Yeah, and he's kind of getting a second opportunity here, but if it doesn't work out here, he's the loser in this, not the Chiefs, not so much. So I think that's an interesting one. What do you got for your next item in the DM? Well, my next one was, and I feel like I'm ganging up on Denver, but. You explain the chub trade.

You explained the chub trade. You defended them on the chub trade, so you're good. But we're back to the quarterbacks and the whiffs that they've made. And I'm going to set Dangerous aside for now, okay? But he didn't play a couple weeks ago, and they played Brett Rippin. Brett Rippin, okay? I'm trying to be diplomatic here. Denver needs to change the criteria of how they develop and how they select

quarterbacks, is all I'm going to say. It's an NFL game made for big, strong people that can make all the throws and do all the things. I just, I don't see what we're doing here. So I just think they've swung and miss again at a backup. And I like Brett Rippin. He'd be a good third. guy somewhere, but when you have to play people, you then see the inadequacies of what they have.

And so I just, I struggle with Denver having swung and missed at so many quarterbacks over the last five years that they swung and missed on backups now too. We're finding out. So that's my only point. I'm not trying to beat him up. It is what it is. Maybe that's my trouble with Chub. I can never get the Chubb part of this out of my mind.

That's who they picked instead of Josh Allen was Chub. Yeah. You know, you're right, though. there's a lot of misses there. A lot of misses. And he really did. Rippin, that was a really struggling.

That was a real struggle to watch. I just don't, again, I only fear the people in the locker room and players, no players. And that was a hard one for me. You know,

I just, we're going to put our players in this position. Yeah, you had no chance to win in the game. Yeah, really, not really. So he was undrafted and,

and you're right. You've got to have a, you got to have a better option than that. You've got to have a better option. option. I agree. My other point was the Christian McCaffrey deal, the CMC. Oh my gosh. I mean, you saw what he did, right? I mean, if healthy, if healthy, this guy's an MVP candidate. But the thing that I think has to be said is that not on every team. He is in a place now with a coach now who will go out of his way to set an offense around this guy's skill set. Most especially

proven offensive minds don't want to jump outside their comfort zone. You've seen Andy Reid do it a little bit lately and be really effective at it. A lot of guys won't. But Kyle Shanahan will. We've seen him do it with Debo Samuel. He's going to do it with Christian McCaffrey now. They will jump outside of their own scheme, their sacred scheme, to find a way to target really good players.

And that's the difference between running a program and calling plays. But Kyle Shanahan is not afraid to at some point acquiesce into calling some plays. to get the ball in CMC's hands. And I love that about it. My goodness, he was showing off. I think it was amazing because they played the Rams so quickly and the Rams wanted him too. And it was like,

Shanahan was like, all right, McVeigh, I'm going to, like they had him throw a pass. I think he aligned up in the slot and threw a pass. I think he caught one. You see that catch he made for the touchdown?

He was about 10 feet in the air. I think it's only the third time in the history of the league that somebody did what he did in the history of the league. And so when it was being questioned after the trade of, I don't know if we'll dress him this week. Somebody said, and it wasn't, Shannon.

Come on, are you serious? He was going to show up Saturday morning and dress, okay? They were not, they don't care if he ever practiced. They were going to teach him four or five plays and they were going to run him. And sure enough,

to go with what you said, he was not going to not play him against the Rams. I can promise you. He's almost the best athlete on the field when you're watching him play. Oh, no question. It's all about health. If he's healthy,

he's their best player. If he's not, then you got problems. So it's a roll of the dice. Yep. Yeah. Maybe they can keep, If they keep them healthy, they'll look out.

All right, you had one more item in the GM notebook this week? Well, it was just one on the generalizing of all these trades. We saw more trades yesterday than ever at the trade deadline. There were four or five of these deals, though, that I consider like a cup of Starbucks trades, right? To me, they were borderline averting the waiver process. They were guys that, well, we're going to give you a seventh, but you give us a sixth back in 2013. And it was Joel Bussert used to run the league office personnel department. He would have never allowed any of these deals.

He would have called you. He would have called you up and said, whoa, whoa, what are you trying to do, ready? I mean, come on. Just cut the guy, see if they claim him. We have a process for this. You can't trade guys for a pack experiment. You can't. It's not possible, you know.

Yeah, yeah. And we had a bunch of these trades yesterday that were, I thought, kind of laughable. They were depth guys, back-in roster guys. I get it. But they were just for a cup of coffee, that's all. Yeah. Well, were there any of those ones that no one was talking about that you kind of liked or think that could help?

I know Pittsburgh picked up, you know, the salary of William Jackson, the corner, or is there any of those types of moves that you thought moved the needle for you or not really? I think the one move, and I wouldn't consider it a coffee trade, was the running back that went from San Francisco to Miami for Mike McDaniels. I think that was like a fifth round pick or something. Yeah, that was more of a real trade, but you like him. Jeffrey Wilson, yeah. I thought it was more of a, I think there's value there, gives him another weapon that knows his offense.

But no, none of these other ones, Dean Marlowe, Rashad Fenton just to me just filling in depth wise very much equivalent to a waiver claim in my mind All right let's move into our picks segment this week last week Sando leading the way You've been waiting to say that

You didn't sleep the last three nights You're afraid they were going to take one of these points back Oh yeah I know I know Two and one I won with San Francisco Walk a day, Connor McGregor Tennessee. I couldn't believe Tennessee was only an underdog by one, but I guess if you watched their quarterback play, you could see why that was. But Derek Henry, I think, is still running somewhere

out there. And then I went against your advice. I lost taking Cincinnati minus three and a half. I'm sure, you know, I'm sure if Jamar Chase had played, you know, that would have made all the difference wink, wink, but you've been, maybe this will come back in our picks later, but you've been warning me on Cincinnati, so we'll see about that. You went one and one, Randy. You won with a the Dolphins minus three and a half at Detroit loss of Jacksonville minus two and a half versus Denver. And if I'm going to make excuses for my picks, I'm going to say, my gosh, you had the right

pick there. Jaguars are throwing an interception on first and goal from the one. Would you been pounding the glass on what we're doing there in the freaking booth? Because it's first and goal. I would have probably gone next door and just start throwing stuff. I mean, what is that? And they hit it against Houston a couple days or a couple weeks earlier where they're down at the seven yard line.

He throws a pick, run it in. Just run the ball. both. I know we're cute, but these are teams nowadays that line up in a shotgun to gain one yard. So we're going to go back five yards to go forward a half. I just, I'm stupid. I get it. I just don't understand that. Yeah. So that then, yeah, that was just brutal because Jacksonville should have won that game. So anyway, Denver needed it and they got it and whatever. We'll go to our picks this week. And who do you got? I got two games that I kind of like. And I'm kind of hardheaded. So I'm going back to the well on a couple of these. I like Carolina getting seven and a half at CINC.

And you know I haven't been a drinker of the Cincinnati Kool-Aid. I get it. I just think Carolina has found a little spark. Steve Wilkes has done a pretty good job. PJ Walker should have won the game for them last week. He looks pretty good. Oh, he looked outstanding. If they can kick an extra point, that whole league is all tied same record.

If they can just kick an extra point. Instead, they can't kick an extra point, end up losing the game. and it was one that they deserved to win. So I think... PJ Walker's your guy, by the way. He is my guy, yeah. You brought him to Houston? To Houston in the XFL, yeah.

And he played just like this for us for five games. And we were not, you know, they couldn't stop us. And the kids doing the same thing. So I'm for him. I'm also for Steve Wilkes. And I'm really making this pick with my head more than my heart, even after I've said that. I just think they're getting seven and a half points at CINC.

That burns kid from Carolina might get four. sacks himself, okay? If they scheme it right. Yeah. So I'm not, I'm not on Sinci at all. I think they've got to shore up some things. I was disappointed by, and maybe this is just me, Mike, I was disappointed by their effort the other night. I thought I was watching a road game on Thursday night with the kind of effort Cincinnati gave. It was a Monday night game, but it was simply, I had no juice, none at all. It was just kind of Deadsville, like you get on Thursday night, especially from the road team. And here's a Monday night game against a division. rival that they got a win, and it was like they didn't really show up. So that took something

out of me. I didn't think Zach Taylor really gave them a chance with any kind of scheme that was problematic for anybody. It was just very vanilla. And like you said, they can't keep the passer upright. So that's a struggle. So long-witted answer. Sorry, I'm taking Carolina, seven and a half. The other game is I'm going back with Jacksonville. They're getting one point against the Raiders. The game's at home in Jacksonville. I think Jacksonville wins the game. So I'm taking really a $200. dogs in the in the rangers got no points last week i know it was zero you know how hard it is to get zero that's it's unbelievable i mean they're they're really a disappointing team and they lost a 20-point lead to arizona they didn't score against this i mean i expected more really i know they haven't had

darren waller they haven't had hunter rent pro but still yeah it's just that's a team that i thought would have a better record um at this point in the year and shoot they've had some decent games offensively, but zero? Right. I mean, man, not very good. So I don't feel great about the picks this week, which means I'll probably do well. I'm going to take Atlanta and get the three points against the Chargers. I've been a little bit of a Charger skeptic, kind of like you have been with the Bengals.

And not that you're not a Charger skeptic too, but I just think with Carderald Patterson getting back to Atlanta and the Atlanta run game and Atlanta being a little bit frisky. Yep. And the Chargers not necessarily having some answers on defense. I think Atlanta is just a team that knows exactly what they are, and they're limited, but they're going to keep coming at you. And I don't know what we're going to get from the Chargers. So what do you think about that one? You're going to advise me that's a good pick. I see it.

I'm with you on it. I think Atlanta is a good pick there. I think they're getting points. The Chargers, for whatever reason, to me, just have not made the next step. And I think it's the middle of their roster, Mike, and it's always been a little weak for my liking. they win some press conferences. They do some things to acquire some high-end players, but it's the middle of their roster that always fails them year in and

you're out. And it's usually when some injuries hit. And I think that we're seeing that again this year. Yeah, I'm going to take Buffalo and give 13. I've been a jet skeptic too. And just because I've watching their offense, you talk about the Brett Rippin offense, at least they have an excuse because it was Brett Rippin.

But I don't think the jet offense, especially in the passion game, is good even when they've been winning. Yeah. I think people, some people would seem like we're like, Oh, three interceptions, bad game for Zach Wilson. Did you see the other games? Yeah. Because I just feel like that has not been a good situation.

I think Buffalo is just a really good prime team. And third teams a lot, but I think they can do it. So we'll see if the Jets defense, which has been pretty good. Maybe they have a different story to this thing. To that end, I would suggest something Jets-wise and people are going to think I'm crazy. I would have no problem because I like Zach Wilson. I think he's going to be a good player. but unless we hold him accountable, he's not going to get better.

I would suggest benching the guy if he does what he did last week. That's borderline insubordinate. He threw the Amari Cooper ball. I give Amari Cooper an excuse. He was laughing about it because they won the game. But Amari was trying to throw the ball away. He said, and he threw a pick. Well, so did Zach Wilson, but he's a quarterback.

Yeah. We're not going to destroy Zach Wilson unless we can hold him accountable and get me on board with it. But if we take him out, he's going to come. He's going to come back fine, but you've got to send a message. We can't just treat him with kid gloves if he's going to keep making these stupid plays. And that's just borderline dumb for what he's doing. He doesn't need to do that stuff. He's really good.

Start acting like it. Yeah. Now you're going to play a really sound team in Buffalo. It doesn't have a lot of holes. And you're going to probably be behind. Yep. And you're going to be in a potential peer past situation with Zach Wilson. I think that's how you win by more than 13.

Maybe I'm wrong. I am going to take Seattle and give one and a half. It was two and a half. But should Seattle be favored or should Seattle be an underdog at Arizona? What am I missing on Arizona? Is Arizona good or is Seattle not very good? I think everybody's just waiting for the other shoe to drop with Seattle. I think that's what betters are saying.

They're saying this can't be true. But I think it is true. I think they are a team now that has to be reckoned with. I got to give Pete credit. Whoa, stop. The press is here. I got to give Pete credit. You did not.

This is just thinking of a different tune here. I tried to tee up a couple weeks ago. Hey, what do you think these young players on Seattle? I don't know. What are you seeing? I'm seeing the coach has done an awesome job. That's what I'm saying. I don't think I've seen a turnaround on defense.

As we know, that first month, the defense was all. They couldn't stop a noseble. They couldn't stop anything. And they've changed their whole tune on defense. So I just like the fact that he's been able to have influence on that and they've got results. So I think they're a good team. Do I think they're a great team? No.

But you've got to give them credit. Nobody saw the Gino Smith. stuff coming. Nobody. They didn't either. Including them. Yeah, including them. That's right. The thing that impresses me most is his intangibles and his leadership and maturity has been spot on for them.

And it's about timing. They need that. Yeah. And I just, I feel like, uh, I feel like they're a mature team at the head coach and quarterback position and sort of throughout, even for being a young team, they have a mature sort of attitude about them. Yep. And I feel like Arizona is the opposite of that.

Yeah. And so. Look, it doesn't mean Steel is going to win the game, but if I had to have $100 on one of those teams, I mean, it wouldn't be Arizona based on what we've seen and just sort of the mojo that Pete Carroll has going right now. And it has been a change on defense. The thing about Pete is they, sometimes it takes a while, but he usually fixes whatever it is. And there's been times where the offense was bad for half the year or the defense was terrible for five games. That's been a thing with them. It's one of the reasons I give Brian Dable so much credit.

He came in in week one and they had it figured out right away. Pete, sometimes it takes so well, but it's kind of like Pete sometimes grabs the steering wheel and says, okay, kids, let's get back on here. And when he does, they sort of get on track. And the defense has been different. So we'll see on that. Those are my three Atlanta, Buffalo, Seattle. You've got Carolina and you've got Jacksonville. And we've got a one-hour show in the books.

How about that? Pretty good, Mike. I enjoyed it. Thanks for having me alone. Absolutely. everybody you can find randy meller's work at mueller football.com you got anything up there randy lately or have you been i have not written this week i'm going to put a column up tomorrow as a matter fact so great so that'll be up by the time most people are able to hear this at meelerfutball

com you can find randy on twitter at randy meeler underscore i'm mike sando you can find me in twitter at sando nfl and you can find my work in the athletic thanks everybody for coming along and we'll do it again next week This was the Athletic Football Show.