The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Pressure points around the NFL, remembering Jim Brown, Tom Brady’s ownership stake in Raiders & more

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

Mike Sando and Randy Mueller begin the show by examining various pressure points for several teams around the league and who will be on the spot the most come September. Then, they reflect on the passing of Jim Brown and his legacy on and off the field. Plus, they discuss Tom Brady’s ownership stake in the Raiders, the NFL league meetings and much more. Follow Mike on Twitter: @SandoNFLFollow Randy on Twitter: @RandyMueller_Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube1:23 Pressure points around the league (Cowboys, Bills, Raiders, Ravens, Broncos, Patriots, Chargers)24:20 Remembering Jim Brown31:12 Tom Brady becomes part-owner of Raiders38:23 GM Notebook Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Before we jump in, I want to tell you about New York Times Audio, a new iOS app for New York Times news subscribers. It's got our show, plus all the other podcasts from the athletic, exclusive shows, narrated articles, and more. New York Times Audio, download it now at n.Ytimes.com slash audio app. Welcome, everybody to the Football GM podcast, Mike Sando, and Lerner. Randy Mueller here from the athletic. Randy, you're Randy, right? I'm Mike. So far, I hadn't changed yet in three years, so I guess we got that much going for us. A couple of true professionals here. We know who we are. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second.

Now, let's don't go nuts. Let's don't go over the top. I am him, like Austin Reed, but if you're watching him knocking down buckets. I am him and he is, he is Randy. So we're happy to have you here on the, what are we deep into may, Randy, but there's always something. There's always stuff in the league. And as we prep for this podcast, Randy, you sort of sparked me on what I think is a pretty good idea. We were talking about Mike McCarthy a little bit, and it sort of led to this concept of some pressure points around a league. People who, like in the example of Mike McCarthy, he's now running the offense. It's on him. So we really have maybe a half dozen or so of these situations around the league.

Buffalo with Sean McDermott's another Raiders with Josh McDaniels, Baltimore, Lamar Jackson. We've got a few others circled here, Denver, New England, Chargers, and so on. So we'll get to that. We'll hit on a bunch of other stuff that's kind of going on or been going on in the league. And let's kick it off. You're ready to go? Yeah, I think it's a good topic because, as you know, when we get through seasons that have many ups and downs, sounds, usually the head coach is the fixer, right?

The GM fixes things in the off season and during the season the coach becomes the fixer. And if it's his area of expertise, I have always thought that that's the pressure point. That's when you find out really what you have from a leadership standpoint. If the head coach can't fix his side of the ball, we probably got issues. And so I think it's fair to talk about some of these things. And I think coaches would probably agree with that. That's why they hired me. I understand all the administrative.

and the leadership and all that, but I still can't get far away from fixing what got me here. Yeah, and sometimes the coach has layers of accountability between him and having to actually take the accountability. Sometimes there's a couple of coaches or, you know, there's an offensive coordinator or sometimes just a quarterback that takes the fall. But eventually it does come back to the head coach and whether they can do what they are supposedly best at. So in the case of Dallas and Mike McCarthy, obviously, Kellen,

more has been the offensive coordinator there. And they've been pretty good on offense. But last season, Dak Prescott's interception rate doubled. I think they missed Amari Cooper. To me, Randy, subbing in Brandon Cooks, and if you just look,

you know, if there's just some natural regression to that interception rate for Dak, let's just say he's not suddenly going to start throwing twice as many picks as he's always thrown. This seems set up on a tee for me for McCarthy to look a little better. better? What do you think? Well, I would think so as well. I think the key for me is can he establish

a running game that's consistent at all? If you were going to criticize their offense the last couple of years, it would probably be that the running game spots, picked it spots. They were good at times. They had two really good runners that a lot of people would say we just didn't use them enough and in a more consistent fashion. So I think that'll be the key. Hey, I grew up with Mike McCarthy. was our offensive coordinator, as you know, from the Saints going back in the early 2000s. So I don't think he's always been known to be a running game old school guy. He even got a couple times in Green Bay sideways because I felt like they didn't run the ball enough. So I think this is going to be a really good test for Mike. He's obviously going to have to go back to his, you know, Paul Hackett

roots. That's who really he learned his offense from is Paul Hackett and a little bit of the 49er ways as well. But that's that's where this offense comes from. And he's, obviously spun off of that many years later, but I do think that the key to them in Dallas now is, and part of it was pressured by him, his own comments at the owner's meeting in March when he said we scored a lot of passing points, but we didn't control the ball. We didn't win enough games. And so he's going to have to fill in that gray area, that glue that he said they were missing the last couple years, if that makes any sense. Yeah. And remember when McCrard, he first started out there, we were kind of like, well, what's he in charge and what does he do?

And as we get further deeper into this, it's closer to him now. And I'm glad to see it. I think it's a waste to have an offensive coach not be involved in the offense. I'm not saying he wasn't involved, but I like to have his fingerprints on it a little bit more. Yeah, I totally agree. His link to the past and his reasoning really is his skins on the wall were developed by him as a play caller. And we both said it at the time when he went to Dallas, he wasn't really in charge of calling the plays. It was somebody else's offense. It was somebody else's scheme.

It was somebody else's this and that. And like we said, what is he really in charge of? I think we even talked about him being a mall cop. He couldn't really arrest anybody because he didn't run the offense. And that's really what we've gone back to now is this should have Mike's handprints all over it. And we'll see in the end. I think Mike's a really good coach.

I think this is what he is, probably as much. as anything is a play caller by trade. So I do think it's set up for the, for the Cowboys to have some more success. What I think Mike McCarthy's done a really good job of the, Randy, was identifying them as a team that's really good on defense and saying before last season, we're going to win with this defense. And so does that lend itself to, you know,

developing more of a run game to play in tandem with that? It should. Yeah, it should, no doubt. They should go hand in hand. I felt like, and again, this isn't part of our current topic, but when I saw the Michael Parsons deal the other day about him gaining weight, putting his hand on the ground and going to play more of a defensive in position, I got a little discouraged by that, and that's just my opinion,

because I think Michael Parsons strength, and you talk about the defense playing hand in hand with the running game, I thought his strength was when they aligned him all over the field. I always thought that was a hard pickup and a hard identification factor for opposing offenses. Now they're going to put his hand into ground, and it sounds like he's going to be in the same spot all the time. I scratched my head a little bit on that one.

Not that has anything to do with McCarthy or the pressure point of their offense, but I didn't love that move. And I could be wrong. That's just my preference. I thought he was at his best when you didn't know where he was aligned. Yeah, a couple of interesting things there on Dallas. Buffalo is interesting, too, because it was sort of odd the way it was announced Leslie Frazier was stepping away.

for a year. But, I mean, really, what's happening is Sean McDermott's taken over the defense, right? 100%. As we've talked about here on the podcast, that defense, in my opinion, has not been the same since the 13-second meltdown against Kansas City two years ago. It just hasn't been, and that was a much evaluated 13 seconds for a lot of reasons of film. And Leslie Frazier was in charge of that. And it seemed like that has kind of been a rut that they've had trouble getting out of and really having an identified figure or an identifying philosophy on defense. That's been a struggle for them. So yes, now Sean McDermott right in the bullseye of this. And again, that's how he made his hey. That's why he got head coaching job in Buffalo was the way he handled the defense in Carolina

and Philadelphia and the other places he's been. They have to play good defense when it matters most against the top teams in the playoffs. That's what it is. It's not being top five on defense in the regular season. And you really took it to a couple, five teams that were really bad. They have to get over the hump in that moment. That does, a lot of it has to do with McDermott. I think one of the notes you had mentioned earlier was also they drafted a tight end, right?

They've done some things. Their top, I believe their top free agent was an offensive lineman. So it really is on McDermott. And then they, you know, they had their middle linebacker leave to Chicago, which, you know, they probably want someone with a little bit more mobility. We'll see as the scheme evolves. I'm not saying they should have, you know, paid the top of the market. But it's a defense could be a little bit different this year, too. Without a doubt.

And as we've said, I think these things go hand in hand. I think their offense is going to become more ball controlling, more time of possession oriented. And that makes sense with a tight end like Dalton Kincaid. mean, those guys move the chains. Players like that move the chains. They're upgrading their offensive line to control the ball and take some pressure off that defense. It's going to be, you know, still, I think Vaughn Miller's got to be healthy. He's got to find a way to pressure the passer. There's a lot of different parts to this that are still fluid and moving. But at the end of the day, I think the offense and Josh Allen are going to find a way to help the defense

as much as anything in this case. Because they haven't always seemed like a team that was led by a defensive-minded head coach. When you really think about, remember, I thought there was maybe a little bit of tension because Brian Daval really was opening it up offensively, and yet you have a defensive coach, and there were some post-game comments over the years that you kind of raised your eyebrows on. Is this more fully now, Sean McDermott's team in terms of offense, defense, playing more like a defensive coach team? There's also been talk there about, hey, we got to preserve Josh Allen. It's too much on him, too many things going on there.

So this could be an interesting pressure point evolution year possibly for them. Yeah, I totally agree. But to get back to what the point was to start this discussion, I do think the pressure will be on Sean McDermott more than it's been in the past. because no Leslie Frazier as the cushion in between criticism and the defense. You put down Josh McDaniels for the Raiders for this. Why? Well, I think the pressure there is that he let a quarterback go in Derek Carr that some might think is better than or more talented than Jimmy Gropolo. So they may have taken a step back in skill,

but obviously to get back to the Patriot way, and his offense being the answer more than the position players themselves. So that's why I thought the pressure would be on him. He had, if you remember, about halfway through last year, there was some doubts if how this thing was going to go. And it ended up that they were more successful on offense than at the end of the season than the beginning. But this wasn't going good about halfway through. And that's when the Derek Carr criticism really became. and I think it was clear to me that Josh McDaniels pushed off a little bit of the accountability

on Derek Carr just by its actions of letting him go and benching him and moving on. So I think anytime you do that, you push kind of an iconic figure out the door, be careful what you wish for. Now you get not only your offense even more so, but now you get your handpicked quarterback to replace him. So I just think the pressure points dial up a little bit when you make those kind of decisions. No doubt. I always struggle with that when you're trying to get somebody to, you know, get your culture established and are sacrificing maybe some talent in the process. It's like is it really,

if you have to do that, there could be a little bit of an issue for me. I get it. I understand why you might want to do it. Again, I'm just saying that the pressure's on. That's all. When you make those kind of decisions, you know, time will tell because I'm with you. I don't think. think Jimmy Gropolo has the talent that Derek Carr has. So that's, that's always a little bit of a hard pill for me to swallow. And he's not as available. So, you know, that's true too. Yeah. Yeah, you would rather have Carr plus Stidim than, you know, probably the situation they're in this year for a really critical year. Maybe Jimmy stays healthy, but really a critical year for, for McDaniels to be good, be good on offense and be probably better than they were.

And Stidham's out the door too. Stidham's across in Denver now. So that's another one that they've kind of cleaned out that room and they're starting over. Baltimore and Lamar Jackson. That's going to be a fascinating one. I totally agree that the euphoria will pass here and then he's got to pass. He's got to pass the ball well. Yeah, I think everybody has, and again, I won't say these are excuses, but I can't think of a different term.

There has been a lot said about why the Ravens are. offense has not been as consistent and to make deep runs into the playoffs, most of the criticism came with the offensive coordinator, the scheme, the front office, not putting the players around Lamar, especially on the perimeter. In fact, the GM even admitted, hey, I didn't do a great job in this role of doing my job in the past. But now that I think all of us, well, most of us would agree that the talent level is upgraded or has been upgraded immensely, now we're going to what do we do? We've got OBJ. We've got Zay Flowers. We've got Bateman coming back healthy. We've still got, you know, likely at tight end. We still have, who's the main tight end?

Why am I not thinking of his name in Oklahoma? Mark Andrews. Mark Andrews as well. So there's plenty Nelson Aguilar. These are really good players, in my opinion. As long as the offensive line can hold up, the pressure does, I think, ratchet up on Lamar, learning a new offense. Not going to be a learning curve here or time for a learning curve. Todd Munkin's offense, new coordinator, Greg Roman is the only thing that Lamar had been under. Now he's got to do something different. So there's some moving parts there, but not a lot of time to learn and adjust, in my opinion. Also, while the contract he signed gives him a lot of security financially and takes care of him, it also puts the spotlight on him to live up to it. Makes him a target. It's a great opportunity

for him to have this is what he's wanted. So, you know, maybe it's going to be fine, but it's definitely a pressure to produce at a high level now without being able to point to the scheme necessarily or anything like that. So a lot writing on how this goes. But because of that contract, Lamar's probably not going to be, have anything to worry about is that you're going to be the starting. No, no, he's not going anywhere. But this is when the legacy starts to be defined.

And it's been a lot said and a lot of give and take to this Lamar contract for the last two years. He got his money. Ravens have upgraded. Now it's time to put up. Which is a perfect segue when you talk about legacies to Denver with Russell Wilson on our list because really he sort of got what he wished for, which was a new contract. A new contract and a new place, you know, changed the coach and all of that. And, you know, maybe, you know, obviously Nathaniel Hackett took the fall for what happened last year. But the legacy of Russell Wilson took a hit too.

And now Sean Payton's in there. It ain't going to be his fault. So pretty huge pressure point for Russell Wilson. Yeah, I definitely think that there's going to be a shorter rope than he's ever dealt with in his career. That's for sure. I mean, he had a pretty free reign most of his time in Seattle. He had a free reign last year to do whatever he wanted. There wasn't going to be a change.

But now there's a new sheriff in town. And, oh, by the way, I think they have a legitimate backup in Stidham. They paid him quite a bit of money to get him. So there's some insurance there. If Russell Wilson starts this season like he did last, I don't think you'll not see Stidham in there sooner than later. I just think, like you said, it's not going to be Sean Payton's fault. So a legacy is in the balance with Russ.

Russell Wilson, in my opinion. I don't care how good he was for how long in Seattle. It's in doubt right now because of the speed at which things went south last year. And sort of the lack of speed and athletic quickness that he seems to be suffering from now compared to in the past, right, when he seemed to be able to get out of stuff. So really a make or break season for him. If he were to be benched after 10 or 12 games, I mean, what's the future? Oh, I totally agree. Now, he's protected with his money and all that, but he's not protected where they have to play him all the time. So I think that's the difference now is that, yeah, he's protected with the contract. He's got guaranteed money, so that's not going away.

But Sean Payton's legacy is not going to be defined with Russell Wilson not playing well. So there's really very little margin fare. There's some. There's going to be some patients. I couldn't see him pulling a plug on him in two or three weeks. But like you said, if we get to. to the halfway poll and Russell Wilson's struggling, I think all bets are off with what Sean Peyton would do. The next one is interesting to me, New England and Bill O'Brien being the

pressure point because, you know, I think the narrative this offseason has been, oh, Patriots got Bill O'Brien after a really tough 2022 where they had coaches out of position running the offense and it was a disaster, hey, this just solves everything to have O'Brien in the, there is one of the notes I put together a column this week, Randy, on kind of one thing I like from each team's out season. I think this is the one for New England. I mean, they had to make some kind of a move. And O'Brien has a history there and has had some success, enough success to get a head coaching job. But I thought your reaction when we were talking about this before we started recording was worth pointing out, right? I mean, this isn't just a magic pill they're swallowing.

There's some concerns, right? I think the reason it's being lotted league-wide, and maybe you so in your column, was because of how much of a circus their offense was last year. So the bar didn't have to be very high for everybody to say, oh, giant upgrade, giant upgrade. If Bill Pellichick would have hired Kellynne Moore or if he'd had hired somebody else, it would probably be lauded the same way. But the way people talk about Bill O'Brien is, and I know he had success there, but guess what? Twelve isn't there anymore. And 12 was there before Tom Brady. So he had these successes. But if people dial it back and remember, when we last saw Bill O'Brien in the NFL at Houston, that was a little bit of a mess on offense.

And when I'm not talking about the moves he made in the front office to, you know, get the GM replaced and to make trades to, you know, get rid of people, that's not part of it. I'm talking about past protections, that offense. It really struggled. And that can't be the same way and the same system that he carries into New England. Now, I know Bill will run Bill's offense, so it's going to be the Patriot way, not necessarily the what happened with Houston. But he's got Mack Jones now. He's going to have to keep him upright. It's not Deshawn Watson running around making things look good, making chicken salad out of our protection package like he did with the Texans.

So there's some things in the air there that I think ratchet up the pressure point slightly. and that I think they've got some work to do on offense, and I don't know that just, hey, saying Bill O'Brien is going to be the savior is really the way it is. Now, I have nothing against Bill O'Brien. I think he's a really good coach, and I've heard nothing of good things about him. But I'm just saying he's got his work cut out for him.

We're not just going to, what Dennis Green would say, we're not just going to crown them. You know, I want to watch and see this with my own eyes. Absolutely. It's a great point of how it looked at the end in Houston. And I also just feel like in New England, And, you know, Robert Kraft's betting on this being fixed, too. And, you know, they have some expectations there for them to just sort of get back.

And it's going to be tough in that division. And with a quarterback who, you know, you've been saying from day one is probably just a middle of the road guy, you know. So is he suddenly going to be better? Yes, probably better than last season. But you've got to be a lot better than last season to really make noise in the AFC. especially in that division. Yep. All right.

Chargers we've got on our list here with Brandon Staley, because so far after two seasons, the defense for the Chargers has not looked like the defense he coordinated for the Rams. Well, I totally agree. I think the big narrative when it comes to Brandon Staley and the Chargers is Brandon Staley's style. his persona, that press conference, I'm the smartest guy in the room, all the time mentality that he sends out there. It's almost like that is taking the focus off his defense. And that's supposed to be his baby, right? That's what got him the job was, like you said, the Rams defense.

So that hasn't been under the microphone because he does get criticism. And maybe this is part of his plan. Maybe he truly is the smartest guy in the room. He's taking the focus off his defense and putting it on his personality and his you know, media persona in that never questioning himself in any way with his use of timeouts and replays and everything else, time management, that we all have grown to kind of criticize when it comes to Brandon Staley. So you can help me out here. I just think at some point he's going to have to have a really good defense or guess what? That's his deal. He needs to fix it.

No doubt. So they had Joey Bilsa out at camp. Their OTAs now. and Galil Max back. They've got, you know, they're banking on some really important players who haven't been able to stay on the field. But to me, all that persona stuff, all of the media criticism or any of that this year, that's not going to be, they have to be better than the bottom five or six teams on defense. And if they, if they're not, they're not going to advance. Now, I will say this in their defense. you know, they were up 27-0-0 in the playoffs.

They did win their final four games of the regular season. And if they just barely hang on and win that playoff game, the narrative around them is probably a lot different. So I do think some of that media and narrative stuff could be a little exaggerated. But to me, it gets back to there's no, there's no way they can succeed unless that defense gets better than it's been, and that's what is probably number two job is, besides coaching the team, is scheming it on that side of the ball, and we'll see that put the test this season. No doubt.

Randy, after our last show, the news broke that Jim Brown had passed away, the legendary running back for the Cleveland Browns, a lot more than a running back. A lot's been said and written, great player, great in the community, important for civil rights. walked away from the game on his terms while still at his peak, which is very rare, didn't come back. Remember, in the early 80s, he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated saying, hey, don't tempt me, I will come back. And I think at that time, I believe, wasn't it? I believe it was O.J. Simpson. No, it was, was Franco Harris about to break his record?

Maybe Tony Dorset and Franco Harris were getting close to his record, so he was threatened to come back. and play did not and and you know really became an icon kind of in the community a person who was an example of empowerment who sought to empower others and then had you know his shortcomings as well some really scary stuff with the allegations in terms of how he treated women and was abusive and some of those things he acknowledged so there was a little bit of a you know a different side to that legacy, but purely as a football player, probably one of the top five in the history of the game. Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that. Obviously, an iconic figure, but also a lightning rod for some of the things he did off the field and some of the things he was involved with. And I would say a lot of

it was positive, but there was some negative as well. And that probably had some effect on where people stack him up as a football player. It's just human nature, right? He was way before, not way before, but he was before my time. So I like to think of myself as a football student and watched a lot of ball starting in the 70s, but his career was over by then. So I understand how good he was. I see some of the highlights like others do. I mean, you just got to look at the numbers that he put up that really were untouchable

by anybody else. But I know him more as an activist and an actor. I was shocked to see that he had done over 40 movies. I didn't know that he was that big of a Hollywood billboard attraction, but over 40 movies. That's a lot. I mean, but like I say, I'm not making light of it, but I remember him in the dirty dozen, as much as I do as a football player, just because he was that much older than me. He was actually filming the dirty dozen when Art Modell, the owner of the Browns, was going to find him for missing camp.

And he, the filming was going to take him his contract with the motion picture company. and he was going to take him through filming into September, and he just decided to retire, which is amazing to think about it. I think he was going to make $65,000 that year, not exactly, you know, the type of money that's made in the NFL. I should he probably made at least that.

I remember him a few years later than Dirty Dozen. In the mid-80s, he was in the Wayans brother movie. I'm going to get you suck up, which really I've laughed. It's one of the five hardest laughing movies, you know, that I've probably ever watched. Really? Yeah, yeah. It's a ridiculous concept.

It was kind of like, you know, those airplane movies and stuff like that. Yeah. Just the ridiculous humor. The Wayans Brothers. I mean, they were really, they were really funny. But Jim Brown was in there. I believe with, yeah, Jim Brown was in there with. I'm going to have to put that movie on my list.

I could use a good laugh. So that would be. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Jim Brown was in the movie with Isaac Hayes. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, Jim Brown.

So he meant a lot of different, he meant a lot of different things to a lot of different people. As a historian of football and just being a voter for the Hall of Fame, he was long in the Hall of Fame before I was a voter in the Hall of Fame. But I'm always looking for ways to kind of compare these guys across eras. And Jim Brown really is in a clash by himself. He led the league in scrimmage yards six times. It's never been done before. Think of all the great backs to lead the league six times is really amazing.

And when I kind of put together in measured backs by that measure, how many times did you lead or come close to leading the league in that? Jim Brown was number one. Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, Thurmond Thomas, Marshall Falk, Adrian Peterson, Leighton, Leighton, and O.J. Simpson with the top 10, pretty good group to be the top of that group. No doubt about it. It's pretty good.

I think the one thing for me, Mike, sorry to interrupt you, was since his passing, I've heard a lot of people talk on him and the topic. And it is consistent that he was a mentor to a lot of people, especially those that came through Cleveland, whether it's younger players, older players, front office people. He was a mentor and still associated with the Browns enough to where people could use him as a resource. And he was grateful, very kind and gracious.

And a lot of people, and again, I've never met him myself, But I've heard a lot of people in the last week talk about what he meant to them as a mentor, which I think is pretty high standard to be held in. And it's consistent around the league. Absolutely. Just look, I saw that from so many people. I think Eric Dickerson posted something, a picture of him with Jim Brown. You know, Miles Carrots talked about him.

A lot of people there across a lot of generations of football. So truly an icon one of a kind. There's really no, there really is no one probably like. him in history to touch in all of those ways and be at that level of a player. I mean, I don't remember many players that could have a Hollywood career like that. Maybe OJ, but I don't know that OJ was the activist that Jim Brown was either. So he kind of stayed out of that kind of narrative, so to speak. I can't understand.

Yeah. I think he was truly unique in that he was involved in some big high-powered stuff that is iconic to history, like you said. And not of all of it was regarding the NFL either. It was, you know, all kinds of activism. Standing with Muhammad Ali. Yes, that picture is unbelievable. Yes. It's unbelievable. You know, when Muhammad Ali's title was stripped because he had refused to go into the draft and, and, you know, a lot of, a lot of sort of horsepower was put together at that time for for good causes.

And then Jim Brown, through his American organization, did a lot in communities. Yep. So, yeah, it is a huge towering legacy for one of the all-time greats. Another player who has a huge legacy, not in some of those. Tom Brady hasn't been in any funny movies or any dramatic movies. He hasn't been an activist like Jim Brown, but he's becoming part owner of, the Raiders, where do you think? Well, you must not have seen the Brady for 80 or 80 for Brady or something like that that just came out, right?

With the Golden Girls in the movie about being Tom Brady's greatest fan club. So what do you mean? He hasn't been part of any movies. You know, I haven't seen that either, but I think that did just come out. Yeah. I felt like this move by Tom and hooking up with the Raiders had a lot of tentacles that made me raise my eyebrows a little bit. I know on the surface, and I'll probably the same way initially, I thought, oh, this is nice. You know, they want Tom because he is, one, the poster child for culture, for work ethic, for leadership.

And they want that to rub off on the rest of their organization, their people. The same reason Fox signed him to that $300 million deal. And it was later said that he's going to be involved in a lot of things besides calling football at the Fox administrative level. Great, sounds good. But when you really start to dig in, I heard this week about how Fox had to give its blessing for him to do this. I thought, what if I'm on another team? And now Tom Brady is the owner or a minority owner of the Raiders, but yet he's coming in every week to do games and getting a kind of behind the scenes look at everything we're doing, like most of the announcer team gets on a weekly basis. Now, is that going to be a problem for any teams?

Am I going to really share? You think Bill Boechecks going to share everything with Tom Brady and knowing they play the Raiders in the following week? You know, is that going to cause any roughly no feathers? I don't know. Hey, you know, and over the years, so if you go way back to the beginning, the beginning of broadcasting becoming a huge big thing

was really John Madden. Yep. And when John Madden made the transition from the Raiders sideline as their head coach, Hall of Fame head coach, to the broadcast booth, he really pioneered the announcer becoming the behind the scenes guy because he would come into camp or he'd come into practice

and he'd be watching practice with the eyes of a coach but really kept the confidences, right? Yes. He would, he, the coaches would tell him, hey, on third down, this is what we're thinking. And then he would never tell anybody, but during the game, he would use it in just the right way, right? Just the perfect way that's not break a confidence.

And I think what I've seen happen in the last 10 years is more of these these other guys have gone into the younger generation of guys have gone into those roles and in this era now where everyone's on social media and everything has currency i think some of those confidences have kind of been broken uh to where some things i know just from talking to people from teams have made it out onto the air that wait a minute that was in our sunday saturday night meeting right we that wasn't that was intended for to help you do a better job, not that we want to have it out there. And so I totally agree.

I think you can't let Tom Brady go watch practice of a team that the Raiders are going to play in a week eight. You can't do it. I don't think you can. I really don't. I wouldn't like it. And I thought it was interesting. I thought they put out a release. Maybe it came from the league or the Raiders that he wouldn't be involved in any operational things, anything to do with the Raiders.

It's almost like they're trying to clear the decks. so that nobody goes where we're going. I just, I don't think I'd buy it if I was another team. Their head coach was on the headset with them for 10 years. I know. Are you getting me? For a team where they were always accused of being on the other side of the line,

putting their toe across the line and the spy gate and all that stuff. I mean, this would be legalized spy gate, Brady going to practice. There's no way. There's just no way. What gives? Does the Fox deal go away then?

What happens? No, I think that he would do it without going in. to practice. Maybe he would still get an interviewer or a conversation with the other team's coach, but I can't imagine. You wouldn't let him go out to practice, Randy, if you were the GM of a team. No, that's my point. I think it would be a problem. I might not let his partner go out either because I'm not going to share anything with him that he might then take in turn, even if Tom's not in those meetings. Who's the play-by-play guy? Is it Craig Burkart? Is that him? Is that the Fox number one

play-by-play guy who for all, I think intent purposes are going to be his partner. I would be a little guarded with him now with Tom as his partner. I don't know. Maybe that's just me. Hey, you know how anal these coaches are, Mike? Every minute detail, every week gets analyzed and it is a world against us 24-7 if you're in their mind. And now you're going to have this. I don't know.

I don't know how it's going to go. Yeah, Kevin Burkard. Kevin, that's right. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Kevin Burkert's on there with Greg Olson. And so now, and we'll see, you know, with Tom Brady, I think that's really interesting. Now, I see this as a, did you, have you seen the terms of what he's paying to get into this? No, you know any of that?

I have not. So I don't know that either. But I think this is a brilliant business move because this, Michael Jordan, he's been in the news lately, right? He's going to sell the Charlotte of Hornets, right? Sounds like it. In 2010, Jordan invested $180 million in the Hornets. The headline recently said he might sell his $1.7 billion stake in the franchise. So if you look at Tom Brady, who has a lot of money, made $300 million playing in the NFL,

and it's going to make tens of millions if he does this thing as a broadcaster, whatever he puts into the Raiders now is going to be worth a lot more in 10 or 15 years, It's just because that's the way the league is going. So I think anyone who can get a share like that, that beats the market, doesn't it? Oh, definitely beats the market. It beats about anything you could do with your money. I'm not questioning it as a business investment. I think it's an awesome investment.

I just don't know how the mechanics of this Fox deal are going to work with him owning part of another team. So I don't know. I don't have the answers. I just got more questions. That's all. I do, too. Yeah, he can't be. You can't have the owner for another team at your practice.

I don't think so. Isn't it sound crazy? I mean, everybody's just saying, oh, this is awesome. This is great. And I was one of those people.

And then when I really sat back and thought about it, holy shit, I can't do this. We can't have this guy out here. How can you do this? No, we really can't. So I think that'll be fascinating to watch it.

The whole thing with the broadcasting stuff, I guess I'll believe it when I see it. You know, I don't know. If it was going to do it, then it's going to be a year later. Now he's going to be an owner of a team. Yeah.

You know, we'll see how it all comes together. What are you having the GM notebook this week? Well, that's a good question. There's several things that we've talked about already. The one thing that did pop up, and I just read this the other day, that kind of reflective of a GM, especially a new one, taking a job in a chair that you've never been in, I kind of felt for Monty Austin Fort in Arizona was when I saw Hopkins,

the receiver, Buda Baker, the defensive back, both no-shows at Arizona OTAs. So that, you know, those both, both those guys have been linked to wanting out of Arizona. And I felt bad for Monty and that this got a little run. This is life and times of being a GM. It just, again, is another example of when you get these jobs, people think you just sit in a room and pick players. And there is very little of the job that involves that. You've got to deal with Hopkins, Buda Baker.

communicating with the rest of your crew, figuring out what you're going to fix to make this right. And so it's not warm and fuzzy in the desert. And I thought Monty did a really good job during the draft. I think you concur that they've set themselves up for some positivity down the road. But they've got a couple ugly ones still staring them right in the face in Hopkins, the receiver, what to do with him and Buda Baker demanding that he wants out of there as well. Different cases going to have to be solved probably differently because these players are in different points of their career. But this is the kind of stuff that GMs deal with a lot.

And people would be shocked because you don't really hear about all of this. But this takes a giant majority of your time sometimes is just communicating, dealing with issues, fixing problems, keeping everybody on the rails and on the same track, if that makes sense. An interesting sort of corollary to this, Randy, to me is just, you know, the emphasis there in Arizona is kind of going to be eventually a reset for Kyler Murray. It's kind of a start over, a do-over. It's been a little bit of a tough go lately and, you know, with that stuff that came out of his contract, the work clause and all the homework clause and all that. And I was having a conversation with somebody in the league about this and about them. And the idea was that it can be hard sometimes for a young quarterback, depending probably on how they're wired, to come in to the NFL when you have

real senior veteran wide receivers on the team. It's hard for that guy to win them over. And so if you look at Kyler Murray coming in, Larry Fitzgerald's there. You can't get a more senior wide receiver who knows. I mean, has his own ethic of how he does things. I mean, impeccable. Larry Fitzgerald is the gold standard for how to be a pro. know how to how to play and was at the end of his career.

Then you get Hopkins in there. You have A.J. Green. I think it would be interesting to see when Kyla Murray comes back what the receiver dynamics are there and what it means for him. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it would be hard for a young guy. But the first thing I would try to do in any role like that is to outwork those veterans. That's really what's going to get you the respect is how you show up and how you punch

the clock every day. And it's clear to me that there may have been a period of adjustment there where Kyler thought things would be like they were in college. And they clearly aren't in the pros. It's a different game. You're dealing with men who go home to families at night and who really grind all day every day. It's a different dynamic altogether. Yeah, absolutely. So we'll see how that one goes.

What else you got in the notebook? Well, one living here in Seattle, I read a column the other day about the Seahawks resigning the cornerback Arty Burns. And it got me thinking because there were some people that had commented on it, why would you do that? We're set at corner. I got news for you. We're never set anywhere. And my comment back to them was it's insurance, trust me. And then today we find out that Tarek Woolen, their lauded corner from a year ago who had a really good year is going to have arthroscopic surgery.

So when you see your team do something like this, I think you ought to be happy that they are trying to get insurance right now. that's really what this time a year is. I always think for team building purposes, I would try to get several veterans at minimum salary to come in as insurance against anything that might happen. And you can't predict. I had many a years where we thought we were loaded at outside linebacker, we were loaded at safety. And before camp was over, we were down to playing neighbor kids. So you need to find some veteran help, I believe, nowadays, the next month, the next six weeks. veteran minimum salary guys that you can kind of hedge your bed against four roles like this, like the Seahawks signing Artie Burns. Yeah, maybe it didn't make sense initially, but you can never not expect to need these guys. And then we read that Tariq Wollin goes out with a minor injury. It's a scope, but they say you'll be ready for camp, but there's OTAs, there's many camps and everything up until then.

So it makes sense why Artie Burns would be signed. but I think teams that continue to grind and find these veterans, I'll give one example. I may have told you this on the phone. When I was in Seattle many moons ago, I was working with one of the most powerful agents, great guy who people would know and I'll leave his name out of it. But I was trying to get a veteran guy like Artie Burns. It was a minimum salary guy who had been in the league five, six years, who I really wanted to add as insurance at a time June to build some depth.

couldn't get the agent to commit to it. He said, here's the deal, Randy. He said, I'll give you four of my guys. I'll give you the guy you want if you'll take these other four guys that I can't get jobs for. And so we ended up signing four veteran players at various positions, all minimum salary guys. We had roster room to do it, numbers wise to do it. And I think three of the four made our team. So it is far from an exact science.

Sometimes it is about mediation. and it was an easy decision for me to make because he said, I'll give you the guy you want, but you've got to take these other guys too. Come to find out, it was a pretty good move because, like I said, several of these guys made our team. You know, and you alluded that we talked about this on the phone earlier, and we did.

I thought one of the interesting points you said is, you know, not everybody really wants to do this. Not everybody wants to bring in the veteran player, but the concept that you were describing was basically that you might sign some of these guys to what's called like a. split contract. And what that does is protects the team if there's a, uh, from, you know, cash consequences. And cash consequences if they get hurt. So even then if they don't make your team inevitably along the way, week five, week eight, week nine, you're going to have a need.

And this guy's been in your system for six weeks or something already. And if he's available, you bring them in, right? No question. That's where coaches want. They want coaches, they want players that know your system. And so these veterans and you may end up cutting them at some point. probably more than likely you will. But they've been coached up for six, seven, eight, sometimes ten weeks in the offseason, depending. And they're ready to go. And that's where you go get your replacements from.

A lot of your practice squad guys are rookie, younger guys and just that practice guys. But these are veteran replacements that, you're right. A lot of teams won't do it. A lot of teams just won't invest the money. They don't think it's worth it. They think an older guy is going to get hurt. I was just the opposite. I wanted some veteran help.

and I knew our coaches did too, guys that we didn't have to develop, guys that we could come plug and play in week six, because they had been through camp. They already know what's going on. I just thought it helped us in the long run to build some quality depth. I love the third item in the GM notebook, Randy. What do you got there? The league meeting? Yeah. The league meeting in May.

Yeah. Yeah, there's two sets of league meetings. There's the March league meetings, right? The owners are there. The head coach and GM are there. Their families are there. Everyone's there. Everybody goes to the March one.

Yeah. Then in May they have one where just a couple people go. I'll let you take it from there. Well, I always laugh and I always chuckle at this. At the March meeting, when you have coaches there and GMs, and you get the owners and the competition committee, there's a lot of opinions and a lot of pushback on what I termed sometimes as crazy ideas and rule changes and things like that.

They could never get anything passed. All they did was wait until May when the country. coaches and gyms weren't there, and they can pass whatever they want at ownership level. And that's what I think of when I hear of these May meetings. And all of a sudden the rule passes, I'm thinking, wait, we couldn't pass that in March because there was too much pushback. So, hey, these things are, sometimes we're just pawns. We're pawns in a big game, right? And I feel like we've been played.

This is, so the rule they pass says if I do a fair catch, if I fair catch the ball inside my own 25-yard line, I can, take the ball at the 25. That's right. It's a pretty good deal for the returning team, but it changes football. And there's a lot of people in football that don't want to necessarily change things just overnight. They want to talk about it, think about it,

consider the consequences. But here we are. Yeah, I think that eventually you're going to see the NFL take the kickoff play out of the game. They don't want to, but they're leaning that way. They're trying everything they can to not. But as we know, concussions are up on kickoffs. that is a injury prone play.

And at some point, I think they'll do like we've done in the XFL in that we've lined our guys up different. They're only five yards apart. There's no high speed collisions. Still, every ball is returned just about. So you get a return of some kind. But that play reflects more of an offensive or defensive play, not guys going 30 yards like battering rams and whacking each other.

So eventually, I think they'll get to that. They probably need another season of XFL data to compare it. But yes, I think this was one that changes the game enough to where they're going to get pushback, I think, from coaches that, wait a second, this is something else I could be criticized for. All right, let's just wait until the coaches aren't here and then we'll pass it in May. Yeah, and that's exactly what they did. What else he got in the notebook? The other thing that came out of this, and it's getting a lot of narrative around the country now for NFL standards is the Amazon.

the league acquiesced to Amazon, which we all knew was coming at some point, and allowing them to flex a couple Thursday night games at some point later in the season if they give a, what is it, 28-day notice or something like that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a little disingenuous by the league, but I understand it's a business, so they do whatever they got to do. But they come out and say, hey, we're all for our fans. We're really engaged and focused on our fans.

We want our fans to have this and that as the best product ever. and then those same fans who had already bought tickets and traveled to a Thursday night game. Now that game gets flexed to a Sunday game. That really doesn't affect a lot of fans. So it's a little bit of a facade to say all the time we're engaged with our fans, but at the same time we're going to flex some of these games out. I thought it was interesting. The teams who didn't vote for this rule or the Amazon appendix, I should say,

it's the old guard guys. It's the giants. It was Pittsburgh. It's Mike Brown. It's all of the old school owners. And on the other side, it was Jerry and the Cowboys looking to make more money to make Amazon happy. So that's usually the case with a lot of these rules. As you know, Mike, you've been to a million of these meetings like I have.

It's the money guys who are trying to increase revenue against the old school guys who are trying to protect the fan and protect the game the way it used to be. The old school guys need the money more. That's the amazing thing. all these other guys who came into the league more recently had their money, billions made other ways, you know. Yeah. But it is really, I think you can make a case that, hey, these TV rights are what drives everything and that however many hundreds of millions of dollars is worth more than the

inconveniencing of a handful of fans. But I'm with John Mayer on this one. He said it back in March to flex a game back to Thursday night to me, it's just a, abusive to the fans that I'm adamantly opposed to it. So I'm with him on it. It's just kind of win is enough enough, right? And they just, I think they found out that there's no downside. Yeah.

Like the league just keeps getting more money. It's a, they're printing money. There's no doubt they're printing money. And I get it. I understand it's a business. But I'm with you. I'm kind of on the side of the old school guys here. It just, it seems like it could be abusive to fans and families and people that

make these plans. all of a sudden they're out the gate, but hey, what's a few more million dollars? The Amazon's willing to ante up to get this right to put on games however and against whoever they want. And meanwhile, they're going to give a new contract to Roger Goodell. It's probably going to be worth a little bit of money too. Yeah, I saw that. That's crazy. God bless them.

That's awesome. They're doing well. They're doing well financially. Yeah. Here's the thing I always say about Roger. And we kind of grew up in the game together, right? We're about the same age. We've spent the same amount of time.

time in the league. So he was a younger kind of up and comer in the league office when I was at the team level. And so I like Roger. I think he's really good at his job. I understand that comes with some downside. You've got to piss some people off sometimes. But I always say this. If the owners are okay with him making 50 million a year, what do you think they're making? If they're okay with that. Because everybody around my campfire is always saying, can you believe the commissioner makes this amount of money? Really, I can. But think about. if the owners are all okay with it, how good they're doing. So it tells me that the league and the owners are doing okay.

Yeah, they sure are. Well, we're doing okay here, not to that level financially, but we're doing okay here on the football GM podcast. You got anything else? No, that's it. We got it. We covered it. Yeah.

Let's do it again next week. Thanks, Mike. This was The Athletic Football Show.