The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Rookie QB debuts, Dalvin Cook the Jet, Hard Knocks, Hall of Fame & more

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

The GM and Mike are back to review the rookie QB preseason debuts, weigh-in on Dalvin Cook the Jet, the latest Hard Knocks episode, coaching candidates for the Hall of Fame and more on The Football GM.This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/mays and get on your way to being your best self. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast. Welcome, everyone, to the Football GM podcast. Mike Sando. That's me with Randy Mueller, the GM, both of us from The Athletic. Randy, how are you? Doing great, Mike. Good to be back again. They haven't changed our keys to the lock yet. So it looks like we got a new lease for another week. Yeah. Well, I'm actually in a different room. I did this last year. I'm actually at the Rams today. They were joint practicing the Raiders. And so it's kind of fun to be at. out there and watch some practice. And then I'm in some room, a little back room. Last year I was in a similar room when we were doing the show. And this room had like some candy on the desk.

But it wasn't really an occupied room. Well, all of a sudden, Rahim Morris ducks in and grabs some candy. Like, that was his, like, Rahim knew that there was a candy stash in there. So that I just happened to be in that room. He wasn't coming in to see you? Well, I don't think he was coming in to me. I mean, we do, you know, we have a little bit of a rapport, but I think he wanted the candy. And so there's no candy in here today.

We should be good. You're coming at us from beautiful Western Washington. Yes, sure. Very bad to be here. Hot and you're missing it hot, hot, hot and a little sticky for even Seattle, you know, the last couple days. So, yeah, 95 in Seattle, as you know, Mike is hot. Well, we got some hot stuff on the podcast today. We're going to get into some of Randy's preseason observations.

He loves this time. You're like we said last time, last week because he likes to watch the film and get in and see some stuff. We've got some, you know, a few newsy things to Alvin Cook signing. I was in the Hall of Fame coach contributor committee, you know, meeting yesterday when Buddy Parker emerged and not Mike Holmgren or Robert Kraft or Mike Shanahan. So we're going to talk about that. We're going to try not to get too fired up. We've got another little follow up to Hard Knocks. We hit pretty hard last week.

We've got the GM notebook, which wow. There's some, I love GM notebook. This is great stuff. So let's dig right in, Randy, off the top. Maybe some preseason observations from the gym. What do you got? Well, I was thinking that so much pre-draft hype and so much draft player hype over the summer is about the quarterback.

So I know we're only one game in, so there's really not a ton to draw from this. But I did think it was interesting. And you're right. I probably watched too much preseason games on film the last three or four days. So I feel like we can at least give a, I'll say this, Mike, I'm going to write a story for the athletic a week from now, which is going to include two weeks of work on most of the quarterbacks in and around the league and just on a progress report, because we know not many are going to play that last week as well. So I just think you learn a lot by who plays, who plays with these quarterbacks, and kind of what state they're in.

because since the draft, they've had a full mini-camp session, all kinds of OTAs, really up until now through three weeks of training camp. So they've had a lot thrown out of them over the last two or three months. And just might be a good time to take a quick pause and just see where Bryce Young is, where C.J. Stroud is. And we've all heard about the Richardson flashes in Indies. So that's where I thought we could start. Yeah, absolutely. I love it. With indie, what's interesting to me is that they've committed to start them already,

which is a long season. And I don't know, my read from afar has been that Shane Steichen's kind of been eager to play him. You always wonder with the owner there what's going on. But yeah, let's get into some of your notes. And then also maybe just some of your thoughts of the fact that, wow, you know, he's going to be week one. I thought maybe they could ease him in. Yeah, no doubt.

I think all three of these guys have been named starters at different points. And I think if we start with Bryce Young, you're not going to see a lot different than what we thought going in, both concerns and positives. I mean, I'll say this. And I know you were through Panthers camp. I feared for this guy's health the other night. I mean, he is not a big kid, as we know. He got pounded out there. I thought the Jets dominated him.

They couldn't keep him off him. And he looked like a little kid that was going to get crushed. But to his credit, he bounced up. The one thing Bryce Young does is he understands timing. He understands the ball has to come out. His fundamentals don't, they don't really sway from play to play. I thought he was really sound with what he did with the ball. And again, I think the speed of the game for him is going to be less of a deal than it is for these other guys.

Because he's used to doing things a certain way at Alabama, and that's helpful. But he's accurate. He can deliver the ball where it needs to go. He can process information, all things that we said about him. coming out, and that doesn't change after one game. The thing that I guess I would emphasize with him was the size is a factor. I mean, he got pummeled in a couple of those hits that the Jets put on him, and I just felt why are we doing this?

And I think for the most part, Carolina's offense is kind of a work in progress. It struggles, and it didn't do him any favors. They didn't hold up against the Jets, who are a good defense, but their past rush put Bryce Young in some tough spots that I think he's going to, if they continue to protect the passer like that, it's going to be a long 17 weeks and I don't see any way he can last. Well, yeah, and I did go to Panthers Camp and I was, you know, obviously it's not a not news that he's a smaller quarterback, but it is, it was a little jarring to see in person.

Yeah. Just how small. It's a thing, right? I mean, it's hard, that's a hard pill to swallow. Yeah. I used to have that feeling when the first time I saw Kyla Murray playing. I thought, God, his helmet was too big for his body. It just looked weird.

But he can also run so fast that, heck, he was getting away from it. And I think if you spend more time in the pocket, you know, and you don't have a good offensive line and you're learning a new system. I think of these three guys, for me, Bryce Young is the least athletic of the things. So again, that doesn't bode well for a small guy either because he will take more hits than most. I know he can get it out quick. I get it. But still, it is a big man's game, especially in that pocket.

Yeah. And I think the ticket for him will be to get the ball out fast. You know, there's some guys, some of those guys. The guys who really know how to play don't miss a lot of games. You know, I think that's, now, they're also a lot of times bigger, you know. You know, Philip Rivers or Tom Brady or Peyton Manning with the top quarterbacks, who were in the pocket, when they did take a hit, they were 220 pounds or whatever, you know. So at least, yeah.

But if he gets the ball that quick, that's going to be a huge benefit for him staying in there, right? No doubt about it. And then that took me on to C.J. Stroud in Houston where, again, I struggle with any type of assessment of these guys when the offense is so bad around them that it's just an uphill battle. and that's what I found Houston's offense to be. I mean, C.J. Stroud played 12 plays, and I'll bet they wish they'd only played him six or seven because none of it was good. This one, in this case, the speed of the game was really fast.

They max protected Mike one time and sent a back in the flat and two receivers out, and they still got sacked. So that's like seven guys to block four or five, and they still couldn't block it. I know. When you look at their kept short on offense. And they have nobody that can get open. Nobody that can break coverage. Nobody that can win one-on-one. So that part's a bad match-up.

He threw one really bad interception that was a bad decision. He threw it way late to the flat and they got picked off. He probably should have hit the checkdown then, but he overthrew a swing pass. Completions were just really hard to come by. And in most cases, you'll see a coordinator try to get a quarterback's feet under him and get him some easy throws. That was even a struggle for C.J. Stroud. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know where this one's going to go.

I wish they had Brandon Cook still. I understand what happened there. They didn't really have anybody to threaten the field deep. The problem with all these bootlegs and play action things that some of these teams are running to simplify it for the quarterback, it simplifies it for the defense too. So they only have to cover half the field. That's a fact. That's not my opinion. So when a guy runs a bootleg and he's rolling out to his left, guess what they're doing on the right?

They're not covering him. He's not John Elway. I'm going to turn and throw it clear across the field. Although I did see Pat Mahomes do that. But in this case, these guys aren't going to do that. So it's really a struggle that, you know, you just wish they could find a way to sit these guys and let the game come to them, you know, somewhat. You can't convince me that, you know, Gardner Minchew and Indy or Davis Mills in Houston doesn't give them a better chance to win early on. You just, you know, you understand the ceiling is higher.

with these other guys, but it's going to be a struggle to get there. I don't know if you had any feelings on C.J. Stroud. Well, on top of that, here's our first four games at Baltimore, home Colts, at Jacksonville, home Steelers. So, you know, you talk about easing your quarterback in when he's got no team around him. I mean, you're talking about places that have some real good defenses and defensive players. And I see zero way for him to get his feelings. feet under him in the first month of the season. None. I think he's going to be

overwhelmed. You know, their buy comes in week seven. And after those teams, after they play Baltimore, Indy Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, they're at Atlanta and they're home for New Orleans. Well, you know, you could be 0 and 6 pretty easily. And then where are you at? And then what are you doing? You know, we were trying to develop this kid. I would almost rather have another guy play the first six weeks and then bring him in, just so he can get up to the speed of what's, going on and understand it. It's just, I don't think most understand the learning curve is so great.

I mean, you're going really from the dock of the bay to the Autobahn overnight. That's how fast this game is compared to where you were before. And so I don't care if you played at Alabama Ohio State. It's still way faster than that. And players are way better than that. And so it's a, it's a giant step up. And I'm not saying these guys won't be good. They might be if they can survive it until they get to where they can develop. I think the situation two words is just an extreme bad around you, you know, that's what makes it. Yeah. That's what tips it for me.

I think I'm okay playing the top pick early if you have a good setup for them, you know, but these are no-win situations. At least that one is. Well, and I do think in Bryce Young's case and C.J. Stroud's case, the fundamentals and really the basics for their game are much more developed and further long than Anthony Richardson, who we're going to talk about now, who was named by the Coltsist starter this week. they must not have watched the film either because I felt bad for that kid too.

You talk about, I'll say this, let me start with a couple positives. He can make throws without his feet being set. He can vary his release point so he can dip down and throw under guys or change the plane by which his release. You know, he can turn to double play how some of these guys are thrown sideways now underarmed. It is what it is. But you've got fundamentals that vary for this kid from snap the snap. snap. I mean, it is all over the place. It is wildly inaccurate, very careless ball security, missing spot throws, curl throws that are easiest throws to make. He kind of throws the ball with

a loose elbow and not to get too far into the weeds, but because of that, it's not a structured fundamental delivery. Now, some of the best quarterbacks that ever played have this same delivery, but his is all over the place. And it's just tough. He's a thrower. He's a thrower. and not a passer. And just because he hasn't played, and we know about 13 games in college, this kid hasn't developed as a passer at all. So, you know, I don't know.

I don't know that they're doing this kid anything but a disservice by rolling him in there. And it sure seemed like he was even shocked that he was going to be the starting quarterback because I don't know if he even thought he was ready. Do you think, is it, I mean, is it as simple as, hey, Jim, or she wants to play his new guy?

I mean, it just seems weird, a little bit weird. I guess, but I'll say this. The ball might go anywhere, Mike. I mean, it might go anywhere. There are people running wide open that he doesn't see it just like at Florida and the ball might sail 20 yards over their head or go right in the ground. It's just wildly inconsistent. So I just don't know. I mean, hey, maybe he gets it quicker than I think, but I think the learning curve for him is going to be even greater than Stroud and Young.

Jacksonville in week one, huh? Is that who they play? Good luck walking them. Holy, you better put in a triple option. Better put into triple option because he can run. He's athletic. He's a big strong dude now, and we all know that. So those are the positives. Yeah. There's a lot of question marks that would make me nervous as heck. And you would think if somebody like that could use the reps, you know, just could use the practice. Oh, yeah. I would think, you know, I don't know. But we'll see. Maybe next week will be a little better. And then, you know, I don't know if they'll play them the third week. I'd play these guys as much as I can without completely risk in their health. Again, I think Richardson can take care of himself. And

so construed. They were running out of there and getting away from people and can get out of harm's way, to me, a little better than Bryce Young can, but time will tell. It's just so early that, you know, I don't know if the exercises was even worth mentioning,

but it's hopefully going to get better next week, and then we'll see where it goes in that last week and end the start of the season. Yeah. You want to hit Dalvin Cook next? Sure. You bet. So the Jet signed Dalvin Cook.

Yeah. Yeah, the Jet signed Dalvin Cook, and I noticed one of my, the best guy I follow on Twitter at Randy Mueller underscore said after Rogers New Running Back to Alvin Hook is the only addition that moves the meter for the Jets

Off and none of the friends and family plan who they signed including the O.C. Who cares what they paid? Plus this helps Breece Hall. So I like the distinction there because sometimes when signings are made people you know that over-focus on the money

or you'll overpaid. You should have slotted them in at this when the bottom line from where the jets are, right? I mean, you're not too worried. I'm not worried about them overpaying at this point. And once Zeke signed, I think that was kind of in the ballpark for where this guy signed for. And let's face it, this was the dog and pony show, the three days he showed up there that weekend and it kind of felt like the destination, unless he could get Miami to overpay, which they didn't. And so this makes sense. I think, in my opinion, this helps the Jets as much as any move they've made.

Now, set Rogers aside, just because, and I mentioned their kind of tongue and cheek about their friends and family plan, I'm not for those guys. I mean, God bless them. They've all done decent. Lizard and all those guys. Yeah, they're not going to move the meter at all for me. But I do think Dalvin Cook can, and I also think Breece Hall can learn from Daven Cook. There's a lot of things, and everybody said, well, there's only one ball.

you're going to have, you know, somebody's going to be disgruntled. If they're disgruntled, they need to grow up because this is a tough business and you need all the good players you can get. Of course, this comes from the guy who had Ricky Waters in his office every week, complaining about Amon Green getting four or five touches. So, hey, learn how to deal with it, people. That's just the way it is. We want good players.

We're going to make them happy. If we score enough, they'll all be happy. But I think two back, two good backs beats one good back anytime you can get it. Yeah, absolutely. So nice signing for them. And I love the vision of Ricky coming in your office. What a great player. He was awesome too, Mike. Yeah, you talk about a guy that got a bad rap because of the persona, right? But this guy wanted to win. And the reason that he used to always complain was that he thought we had the best chance to win when the ball was in his hands. It's hard to push back against that because he's right. He was really good. But among green was a little faster. Among Green was a little this, a little that, and it was a great one-two punch. So we kind of have to finesse that. And sometimes, well, there is only one ball, but as GM or as head coach or even as an assistant sometimes,

finesse is the name of the game, baby. You've got to make everybody happy, and you've got to have as many guys on alert as you can to play. So I like this signing for the Jets. Yeah, it's good. We'll talk a little bit about the Jets as we follow up on some of the hard knocks. The next thing I've got on our list, though, is this Hall of Fame stuff. And today, the Hall of Fame announced that long ago Detroit Lions coach, Buddy Parker, was chosen by the Coach's contributor committee to go to the Hall of Fame.

From a list of finalists that include Tom Coughlin, Mike Holmgren, Bucco Kilroy, Robert Kraft, Dan Reeves, Art Rooney Jr., Marty Schottinheimer, Mike Shanahan, Clark Shaughnessy, Lloyd Wells, John Wood. So I'm on this committee. and because I represent the Seattle market in general, they gave me Mike Holmgren to present, so I did that. I presented him to the committee, and he's very well thought of by the committee.

But Buddy Parker comes out from this thing, and Randy, I just wanted to ask you, you obviously worked with Mike, and he probably worked with a couple of these other guys too. Maybe not. I'm not sure if you did. Were you around Marty ever, Shottonheimer? No, not with Marty.

No. because you did not overlap with the chargers. Yeah. So anyway, from the list, any thoughts, Randy, on these guys? Well, I mean, kind of talked about this before the show. I'm 60. So if Buddy Parker is a better coach than Mike Holmgren and Mike Shanahan and those guys, God bless them. My question is, who's old enough to advocate for that on your committee?

I mean, who has seen that? Who has figured that out? Because I surely can't. And I've been in the game almost 40 years. So I could be easily drawn the wrong picture here. I haven't done the research like you, but the game, the athletes, the competitive level of where it's been the last 30 years,

it's pretty dang good. And I do know that. So I know Mike Holmwood's a really good coach, maybe the best I've ever been around at kicking guys in the butt and then hugging them five minutes later. And guys play really hard for him, not to mention he's a great tactician. Same with Shanahan.

Not saying Buddy Parker isn't. I just, I'm with you. I'm a little bit surprised by that. And maybe I'm just missing the boat on Buddy Parker, but like I said, I'm only 60. I can't really back it up. This one kind of bothered me. And, you know, I look, I'm presenting Mike Holmgren and I covered Mike Holmgren. I know him.

But it's not, Mike Holmgren and I aren't buddies. I mean, I don't. No, I hear you. Yeah. I'm not, we're not friends or anything like that in a social setting or any, I'm into the history. I'm into researching and I'm into developing standards and criteria that help us determine who are the best people.

So, for example, I did that for running backs. It did it for wide receivers, looking at ways to kind of measure their elite production without having any. I'm not trying to help any one candidate. I'm trying to look and say, hey, really, we need to consider this person here because of X, Y, and Z. So for coaches for me, I think there's two types of coaches that would be considered for the Hall of Fame. One is the type you wouldn't even have to have a discussion about. And we see that, like, among the players, that's Jerry Rice or Emmett Smith.

There's only a very small number of them ever. There's one or two of those guys who ever played wide receiver or running like. Jim Brown. We don't have to have a criteria. We just absolutely know. Well, then there's a level of person who is or may be worthy, but you have to look at the record a little bit more. They didn't just win the most games in history or five Super Bowls or whatever.

And so for me, for a coach, the criteria that I have really thought about the last couple of years one is did you really drive elite success with multiple teams because I think you see guys go to different places in different situations and I'll give you an example you know like they put Tom Flores in recently into the Hall of Fame great run with the Raiders completely flat in Seattle that's a little bit of a red flag for me

even some great coaches Dan Reeves is on this I mean he I think coached three four places losing record in a couple of the places well that then to me that has to be overcome to be for the Hall of Fame the other one is kind of the Joe Gibbs test that you do with more than one quarterback

like I think if we're looking to try to give credit to a coach sometimes it's hard to know in an organization there's so many things that contribute to winning and the quarterback is such a big deal, but did you, you know, in Holmgren's case, they picked up Brett Farr who'd never started a game, and he's a pro bowler in year one and goes to his three-time MVP, or he comes to Seattle and they acquire Matt Hasselbeck, who had been a practice squad player, no starts, and he's three pro- Bowls, and they go to the Super Bowl.

And then the third thing I look at is, hey, were you really involved? and developing quarterbacks, calling plays, innovating, you know, those types of things. And so that would be things like, you know, I see Mike Holmgren as the link between Bill Walsh and Andy Reed. I mean, really, he's the one guy between that for 40 years of great offensive football. And, you know, developing quarterbacks, like I said, with a FARB or HASTB, somebody like that, you know, calling plays is a huge way you could influence the game on Sunday. And the last thing to me is just, is there any kind of like a legacy that's bigger than yourself? You know, and so when I was discussing Mike Holmgren, I mean, his coaching tree had eight assistants become head coaches,

including Adrian. They won Super Bowls. His coaching tree has over 600 wins in the league and a winning record. The coaching methods, and you know, you'll know about this, but, you know, one of the thing Steve Young said was, you know, he completely changed the way quarterbacks were coached, kind of was the first guy to recognize that that coach quarterback thing would need to be more of a partnership. I thought that was an interesting thing. Right. And then third one that from Oldhampton, which I never really had thought about, associated with him before, was he's the first coach to ever hire two black

coordinators. Do you know that? When he became a coach in Green Bay, the rest of the league had two black coordinators, had a 54. He hired two. Ray Rhodes and not Fritz Schumer, but Shirm Lewis. So my point here isn't to try to get home grid into the Hall of Fame on this thing. My point is that I think when we go through candidates like this, I think it's really helpful to have some kind of a structure or criteria. Just like if you were evaluating a game or a player, you have a process that allows you to have reference points and have it all makes sense. And so when you like a certain player, and I can even see it now, when you describe a wide receiver,

you're like, I know why, because I know what you're looking for in them. And I feel like in the Hall of Fame, we're not there yet. Like, we don't have agreed upon criteria. And so what you have is a bunch of people advocating for individuals. And that's how, in my view, out of the blue, Buddy Parker makes it. I'm not saying Buddy Parker shouldn't make it. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that people can't explain why he should over this other guy

because there's not a criteria. So that's kind of my soapbox thing is I think really for the maximum credibility of the Hall of Fame and just because it makes sense developing some kind of criteria to contribute to evaluate these people. What are their players, where their coaches, what are their contributors? is really, I'm really interested in it. I love the history of it. Yeah, I would only say this, because I think you described it perfectly, also for me, and I'm not on the committee, never have been, never will be, but personal agendas almost have to be set aside by the people on the committee as well, right? Like you said, you're not buddies with Mike. You're not buddies with

any of these coaches, which is great, and you want to present your case, but there seems to be, sometimes with these Hall of Fame things, there seems to be some ulterior motives. And I think that's how you become a hall of pretty good, you know, not a hall of great. Well, yeah. And, you know, I don't think there's a lot of underserving people getting in, but I do, I have thought about the structure of how it is set up to have an individual responsible for the presentation of somebody. Does risk that person just trying to find the best way to get that person in, right?

But it shouldn't it be about getting it right as a group, not getting my guy in? That's like a draft any day. It should be what's best for the team or for the group. Yes. That's really how I want it to be. And I'm not saying it's not always that way. I'm just saying like I've evolved in the last few years to be more into the criteria and trying to do it that way. What is the best, how can we get the best person in?

Right. every time, not saying, hey, this guy probably should have gone a long time ago. Let's push him up to the top now because that would be the way to go. And I don't believe in that at all. I think you look at the candidates and you try to find out which ones are the best. And out of this class, I would put Buddy Parker high on the list, but I would certainly think that you can't find a better,

If you're going to do an owner, Robert Kraft checks a lot of the boxes. I mean, it'd be hard to be against him. And I think you had mentioned Mike Shanhan. I would agree with what his impact has been. And obviously, Mike Holmgren, there's some good ones on there. But I bet you there weren't a lot of people that went into this week saying, well, they got it. It's got to be Buddy Parker. Probably not.

That's why I'm saying there can't be that many around in their 70s or 80s on that committee that can maybe make that, you know. distinction. I don't know. It doesn't mean he shouldn't go in. No, I hear you. That's right. It's fresh and it's a topic that I'm really interested in. And especially the criteria part of it, I can do the research. So I'm going to keep doing the research and we'll come back next year and see how it turns out. It's always fun to do.

It's a privilege to do it. It's a responsibility. I take it seriously. Really enjoy it. Back to some of the preseason. We talked about Bryce Young. The Panthers were the only team scoreless in the preseason opener. And I know you've raised some questions about them,

but I can just picture David Tepper, their owner, and the owner's box, excited for his day. Taking this really good, you mean? Yeah. New head coach, new quarterback, and you lose 27th and I don't care if it's preseason. I think the owner cares if he lose 27-0. When you're coming out of the gate,

excited. No big deal, Randy. You don't worry about anything in the preseason. You said you liked some of the things you saw from Bryce Young or... I just think it's not good for anybody in that we go down and get beat down. I don't think it was even 27, nothing close. It was one of those butt kickings where we didn't show up. We didn't do anything right.

And what did Jim Morris say? we didn't do didly squat. Yeah. Dillie Poo. Yeah. So that was one of those. I agree with you. And I'll be honest.

And I like Frank Wright. I've been with him with the Chargers. We were together. I know how he works and I know what kind of man he is. I think at some point their offense has to do something. I think there's a lot of people that get crowned or labeled. And I've heard people say Frank's the quarterback whisper. And I'm thinking, well, whisperer.

And I like Frank, but who do whisper? Philip Rivers? I mean, Philip Rivers is pretty good when we got there. So I'm just, at some point, their offense has to show me that Frank, especially being the offensive guru that everybody says he is, it's got to do better than where it's been in my mind, whether it was with the Colts or whether they get it done in Carolina.

That's my point, I guess, is the Jets defense is good, but the Panthers looked overwhelmed. And this was after two days of practicing against them. One, because the second one got rained out, as we saw on hard knocks. I just, I would have expected better, and you're right. The owner is going to be patient as long as he can, and it's one preseason game. I get it.

But, yeah, nobody wants to go through that. I've had that happen on opening day when everybody's all fired up after five preseason games, and all of a sudden we're opening that home. Nobody could be more excited than, and just come out and lay a big egg like that and get beat down. That's the only thing worse than this. Now, they've got a couple weeks to bounce back, but it's a lot of it's. just it wasn't a good look for sure. I just put a little asterisk by it.

You know, that was a little notable to me, you know, with the excitement of the new coach and the new quarterback. And yeah, I just, you know, they had it. They finished decently last year, you know, too. And they made a decision to not retain. And we'll see how they do. I think they'll just be an interesting team. Yeah.

You know, not a great division. And you've got this quarterback and you'll want to see them go. So you mentioned they lost the Jets. Did you watch the? episode two of Hard Knocks? I did, as a matter of fact, yes. I'm kind of, I wouldn't say I love it, but I did want to watch it, and I'll watch

the rest for education purposes only, right? Less entertainment for me, more education. You should have seen me. I was, the glamour of life on the road. I was sitting in a courtyard marriott laundry room doing my laundry, watching this thing in the laundry room

at 10.30 last night, because I wanted to see it before the show. And I thought this episode was better than the first one. The first one was kind of a turn-up. How about the mentalist guy in the beginning? Did you see that? Oh, yeah. That was awesome.

But we've seen that guy, and what he did to those guys, those guys all, like, in five minutes, they can't trust anybody. How do you do the 31 to 21 Super Bowl? I know. Of the Jets over the 49ers. He basically asked the player to visualize who the Jets would play in the Super Bowl and what the score would be. and then he asked the player to say it

and the guy goes 3121 over the 49ers and this mentalist guy turns around a placard and it says it has the logos of those two teams that's just 31 to 21. Yeah. He had another one where Aaron Rogers is holding a deck of cards and he's holding a block with a goldfish in it.

I know. I mean, how, I understand the magic stuff, you know, magic stuff happens, but that is... Yeah, no, it's impressive. Hey, it's, it's... It's witchcraft. So I thought right off the bat.

They might have read our, listened to our review last week. I'm sure they were like, oh, Sando and Mueller, football gym was kind of down on us, down on the hardline. We're going to get some real entertainment in here. So I was all in it. For the beginning part of that, I thought this is awesome. I've seen that guy before, but I don't get tired of it.

So I thought that was great. Then I love for Sean Rogers on the field. He goes, that play definitely sucks from that formation. Maybe we're going to learn that after that rep. Maybe we'll learn that. I thought that was some great sarcastic, hey, coach, are you listening? Are we ever going to block anybody? Oh, yeah, Sala's mad at the offensive line.

And Sala, do you think that Sala really says an F-bomb that frequently and is real, in, I feel like he's adding them in. Yeah, I don't, I'm just not, I don't know how authentic it is. I'm with you. It just seemed like there's some manufactured speeches and crows and eagles and all this other garbage that we're making up. And I understand that fans love to see that. Maybe people watching it love that. But that's not realistic in NFL terms. That doesn't happen in most places.

I mean, I've been around for a long time. I know my coach has never used that kind of symbolism. And I just think it's a little bit quirky. You're right. The F bombs, I don't know. There was a dozen in a two-minute segment there that just make you shake your head. Which they say that a lot, but it's usually with a real emphasis. Like it's natural.

Like when you say it's more natural, like it feels like it's being edited in. It's just a weird dynamic. But anyway, he was, I like, you know, the drama they create with him dressing down the offensive line and the big boys up front got to get going. It's interesting how they edit it all together with then the offensive line plays better in the preseason game. So we solved it all in one show, you know. Hey, don't forget, they're making TV show, right?

They're making it to you. The one thing that did stick out with me once again was kind of some of the shade that Sala throws on prior years. You know, and he did it again. Last week he said something to the effect that it's not the same old Jets that's been here in the past. You know, we got to show something different. And then this week he said something similar about we finally have a chance to do something different. If the offensive line can do this. Let me just, did he forget he was the coach the last two years?

What the hell? I mean, so he's really throwing it back at himself. And it's like, I don't, and the GM's been there four years. So he's throwing all kinds of shade on him too. It's like saying, this is four years you've built this pile of crap, you know, up front. So I don't know. This is the longest rebuild in the history of the NFL. So I think that's why I'm always a little skeptical of the Jets.

Who gets four years to roll out this kind of crap and then get a Hall of Fame quarterback dumped on your lap and now we'll see where we're at. But I think we all would like to see something come of all this hype and all the expectations and all the talk and all that. I don't know. Maybe it will. I don't know. I know their defense is good.

There's no doubt. I mean, I think to me, if they can overcome how bad the Jets Rookie show was, what was that? What was that? What was that? I couldn't even piece that together. He lost me right away. I'd be throwing stuff too. That was nuts.

Those of you that didn't see the show, the. The players stood up and were pelting the rookies on stage with like wads of paper who tried to get them off there. It was so bad. Usually the rookie show, everybody wants to see it. I've been to some that are awesome. I mean, really funny. Nothing sacred.

They come after you full circle. But you're right. This one made no sense to me at all. I was throwing socks in the laundry room in the corporate marionette on this one. What's the best one you saw? Do you remember any? Well, usually it's when they're making fun of the coaches. You know, some of the rookies will make fun of the coaches.

and it's usually their position coach. And sometimes you're glad the coaches aren't all in there because some of it can be personal. But that's what the purpose of it is. It's to have fun. It's to laugh about it. It wasn't anything funny. It wasn't anything about what they showed on TV last night.

They might as well have showed the narrator flying in in a helicopter again. I mean, what's the difference? It was those were the two letdowns in the first two shows for me. The other thing that really set up to me was just how Rogers coached, with the referee, Carl Chefers, you know? Yeah. The Tier 1 quarterback treatment by the referees and the interactions is a little, I mean, I love it, but it's kind of sickening.

I mean, it's, you can, like, you can just picture that Carl Cheffers are these referees, they love being the first name basis with the quarterback. They're hoping their kids are watching the scene and say, hey, I see, I know Aaron. Yeah. When he goes back to his insurance job, he says, hey, man. Aaron and I. Yeah. Did you hear Aaron and I talking about this?

It was a guy. He's telling his voice. Rogers on line one. Hold my calls unless it's Rogers, you know, coming through. But then the best part is Rogers, then frames the dynamics, reframes him back in his favor because he's like, hey, Carl, could you get you one of your guys? You know, the ball's a little sweaty out here. Could you, could the Empire have a towel next time, please? Yeah.

And he's like, yes, sir, you know, I'll see if I can do that. You know, I just felt like he was, you know, you know, it was the kid at the car wash and he's saying, hey, can you, can you get, I got a little scuff on the white walls here. Could you, could you get that down there, you know? And there's like no one else on the team could do that, have that with the referee. There's no one else really there, not even the coaches would have that type of a thing. It's really like Rogers seized the officiating staff as his caddies. They're at his disposal, you know. But I will say this, in his, defense, when you think about it, the referee and the quarterback do have a dialogue for most of these

games, whether it's good, bad, indifferent. They see each other after every play, right? So I can understand there could be some relationships. There's not like the defensive end is going to have that same dialogue with the referee, you know. But the quarterback does have some. I mean, hey, I'll say this, in my high school and college days of playing, I still know some of those referees. So you do develop a little camaraderie with it. I'm not against it, but it does go to an extreme here where it's all on a first name basis. I was having fun with it.

I'm having a little fun with it, but I just think it's hilarious. I love that aspect of the top to your quarterback. And Rogers just, Rogers just basked in it. Like, he loves this stuff. You know, I enjoyed it. I thought that was a fun part of it and the referees, you know. Do you think Rogers is looking for points down the road? Is that why he's maybe playing this up?

a little bit, maybe get a little protection, a little call down the road? Do you think any of it's authentic or is it all for show or what is it? What's the reasoning behind it? What's his agenda? I think there's agenda. I think there's a strategy to it. I think that he probably does enjoy the interplay with him and the fun with it. And he, you know, I think it's, I don't think it's all just totally phony or anything like that. But I think he's working the angles because you can see him, oh, they came back to it later and he's like asking for clarifications on plays. He's like, hey, he wanted to know why we didn't get a free play on the neutral zone infraction, and so he gets an answer.

Like, he gets a real-time answer. And I think Rogers probably then was just enjoying. He's on the sideline. He's not in the middle of the game. He doesn't have to track as many things, but he's, he was almost like a coach getting, you know, like, hey, if anyone needs anything from the ref, just don't, just ask, you know, Aaron, he'll, he'll have it covered. So, yeah, the other thing now in the league is when the quarterbacks get hit, the first

place they look is at the quarterback. The referee, they look at him right away. Hey, is that a penalty? Right. No doubt. I just got hit. You know, it's the first thing they do. So, yeah, I just noticed that. I thought it was interesting. I'm glad they featured it on there, the chumminess. So we'll see if Carl Chaffers has a Rogers game this year, you know, and it pays off for him in the game. That's funny. I agree. I enjoy that part of it. I enjoy the kind of gamesmanship, but I'm with you. I think there's some agendas driven down the road here that Roger thinks he's going to get the benefit of. Yeah, and I bet he does get some benefit, you know, from the relationship.

Yep. Those guys have. So what you got in the GM notebook today? Well, we got a couple things left. And normally we get to this point in the show and we look in the GM notebook and Mike's already unlocked it and used everything in there. And so we're back down to nothing. So I'm shocked that we have two things in here that we can still talk about. That's amazing.

Yeah, I'd say that tongue in cheek. The first one for me, and you're right, I'm watching too much preseason film, but I tried to watch some Tennessee stuff because I knew Ryan Tannehill was not going to play, and Malik Willis and Willis are the two quarterbacks that were chosen by this franchise the last two years. Willis in the third round two years ago or last year,

and Levis this year. And they alternated them throughout the first preseason game. I just kind of wanted to see, like we talked about earlier, with the quarterbacks where they were. Obviously, Malik's second year in the league, he started a few games last year, so he has some more experience. Will Levis, I had some concerns on him coming out, so I wanted to see how that was going. I would only say this.

I think that Titans are in trouble if anything happens to Ryan Tanny Hill. I just think that the backup play with this franchise is going to set them back if either has to play right now. and I just shake my head sometimes at the development curve and how long it is, and yet we're trusting of this, and it's where we are. Started with Malik Willis. And I'll say this, these guys are alternated in and out. Malik Willis is a very good athlete once he escapes the pocket, same as he was in college.

But he also does a lot of things that the same, he did the same thing in college. He had a delay a game. He had people running around that he didn't see, so he didn't identify targets. wide open curl routes he overthrows it he holds the ball still way too long for me just not aware of what's going on steps up into the rush his pocket awareness for me is it might be fatal but it's just not there yet so i think we kind of made fun a little bit last year of the fact that malique willis was one of those guys that's a year away from being a year away that's probably still a year away you know and this is again only one game but it was

just everything happened in slow motion for me. And then Will Levis came in and Will Levis is the second round pick from Kentucky who started his career at Penn State. A lot of the same things. And it just makes me wonder who evaluates these guys for the franchise. It's really a struggle. People open in the red zone. He doesn't see him. I always have a term, Mike, that I use for quarterbacks is they look, but they don't see. And that's a problem. Sometimes guys can look right at the open receiver running cross and he won't see him because he'll never pull the trigger. That's just, it's kind of a flaw that it's hard to explain why, but that's just the way it is. He's wildly inaccurate as well, Will is. So, you know, I don't know. I think the lack of awareness,

the lack of a clock in his head, the lack of pocket presence for both these guys, just tell me, and I'm not trying to beat up the Titans, but this is a struggle because as we know, Tanyhill missed time last year, and they were still really good on defense and did some other things, but I don't think it's going to be any different this year. I think, and now we heard today that Barks, the receiver, was taken off the field with some type of an injury. I was betting on the Titans given the Jaguars a little bit of a run for their money. I just, I don't know that. That's going to happen now, especially if Tanyhill misses any time at all.

Yes. Yeah. So, you know, and we're not going to make a judgment, like you said, about the low. long term in one week of three season, but we are talking about the long term plan. And these are guys, these are not, these are people they have targeted to possibly have a future, but they are doomed if something happens in the short term. I think they'll be back to, you know, last year they ended up signing Josh Dobbs and playing him.

I had to Malik Willis. And I could see them having to do that somewhere this year, sign a veteran guy somewhere if something happened to Tanyhill. So I just think that's a, it's a plan that's probably headed for. disaster if something happens to Ryan Tanyhill. And the scary part is, Mike, when you're talking about team building, this is going to be it for Tanyhill, most likely in Tennessee. He already has a $38 million cap number, highest in the league, I think.

And he's probably in the last year of his time with the Titans. So I don't know that there's a plan to pass the baton. I think it could get worse before it gets better, that's for sure. Yeah. Okay. What's your next note? The other note I had just for the GM notebook was I've been asked on a couple radio shows, and I'm sure you could ask this too, Mike. Everybody always says, have we outlived

preseason? Has preseason kind of come and gone? Are we over preseason games? And do we really get anything out of them? And I guess my answer is twofold. One, the joint practices have taken precedent for me over preseason games. And the joint practices have become a way for coaches to script what's going on in practice. They can get exactly certain coaches. coverages ran against certain plays and vice versa. And they don't have the physicality of bringing somebody to the ground at the end of it. So they can get lifelike conditions without the contact or the fatal car crashes per se at the end of these plays.

So I understand it. The other big positive for me would be if I had a joint practice, we don't have to share that tape. A preseason tape is shared by everybody in the league. Every team gets everybody's preseason game. if you have a preseason work against another team, you don't have to share that tape with anybody. That's your own, you know, intelligent part of it. And so you can try different things.

You can experiment and have only shared it with your opponent that day. So those two things are somewhat, I think, beneficial. Now, one I think is more beneficial than the other. But then I watch the Chiefs. I watched the Chiefs preseason game the other day. So my thinking is Andy Reid may be the best coach in the league right now. I know he's a little old school, but I thought this. He played Pat Mahomes for six plays.

And it's not really about how many plays he played. But for me, the fact that Pat Mahomes knew he was going to start in the game changes the day before and maybe two days before. Because he's not going to get embarrassed. His focus is going to be fine. He needs to go through this. even a former MVP, Super Bowl champ twice over, he still felt like it was valuable for the lead-up into that game to get that experience. And then I watch a team like Atlanta play on tape.

They're starting Desmond Rizzerd, who played four games last year. He doesn't play a snap. It doesn't start. What do we gain in there? So that to me was just two vastly different examples of coaching philosophy on how to treat preseason. I just think there's so much to be learned from some live action. You don't have to play these guys a lot. But those two days before a game,

I just find that if players are going to play, they're completely different, their focus is different, their attention to details different. If I know I'm not going to play, guess what? I'm shutting her down probably a day and a half ahead of time. And I'm going through the motions. And I'm not saying it's for everybody.

But it depends on where you are in your career. I just can't believe they would waste a quarter of action for a guy like Desmond Ritter. And he doesn't need that. Of course he needs it. He needs every snap he can get. But again, I'm not picking on them. That's just a different philosophy that I would struggle with if I was in Falconland.

And Andy Reid, on the other hand, and he had this reputation in Philly too. Andy Reid's a hard grinding dude, man. He might seem like a nice jovial guy. But his guy's practice. The physicality is more than most places. They used to complain in Philadelphia all the time. He wants this thing. hit. He wants us to do this. He wants us to do that way more than anybody else. And now we've

gotten to where nobody wants to hit anybody and it's all kid gloves and nobody gets tackled. And I get all that. We're going to save injuries, which I'm not convinced saves injuries at all. But it's just that different philosophy. And I loved it when Andy Reid said, hey, our guys are going to play and Pat Mahomes played six plays. Not only that, if you're another star on that team, if you're another really good player on that team, how do you say, yeah, I don't really want to go when Pat Mahomes is playing six plays. Your best player is the leader of your whole franchise, the face of your city. He's going to play so nobody else can beg out, right?

They all got to play. So does this get to that? Remember we were talking about, you know, the quarterback coach relationship as a partnership. Now, make no mistake, there's a leader in the partnership, and it's Andy Reid. And just so else it would have been Mike Holmgren. But they're really on the same page. And, you know, a different type of partnership would have been Belichick and Brady.

but when you have that guy who's your elite great quarterback playing in the preseason or doing whatever, it sets it sets it for everybody. It's great. I think the bar is high in their case. You're right.

And it's that way every day and that's why they're the best in the league. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I think that's a wrap, Randy. That's what we got. Yeah. It's good.

It's a great GM notebook. And thanks everybody for coming along. You can find Randy on Twitter at Randy Mueller underscore me. I'm on there at Sando NFL. You can find us both in the athletic because we're teammates. Let's do it again next week. This was the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast.