The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Steelers trade for Allen Robinson, 49ers receiving calls on Trey Lance, Jalen Hurts’ extension & Randy Mueller’s top RBs & TEs in the 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

Mike Sando and former GM Randy Mueller talk about Jalen Hurts’ extension, the Steelers trade for Allen Robinson and Trey Lance’s future in San Fransisco. Then, Randy shares his top RBs and TEs in the 2023 NFL Draft.Follow Mike on Twitter: @SandoNFLFollow Randy on Twitter: @RandyMueller_Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube0:38 Remembering Chris Smith4:42 Jalen Hurts signs 5-year extension15:40 Rams trade Allen Robinson to Steelers18:56 49ers receiving calls on Trey Lance23:01 HOF LB Dave Wilcox dies at 8025:54 Randy’s top RBs in the 2023 NFL Draft38:25 Randy’s top TEs in the 2023 NFL Draft51:34 GM NotebookThis episode is brought to you by Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com/mays to get 10% off your first month Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome everybody to the Football GM podcast. Mike Sando here of The Athletic, along with Randy Mueller, general manager of the XFLC Dragons, three-time NFL GM, former NFL exec of the year. And we have a show today that we are very excited about. Randy's going to rank the running backs and tight ends in the draft. We get a bunch of news to hit.

But Randy, off the top, this is a paper. business and people think the general manager of a team, you know, is just sitting there preparing for drafts. But this week, I just wanted to acknowledge, you know, the passing of Chris Smith, who played for your XFLC dragons, just a jolt to the chest here, drop it to your knees in the middle of a season. We spent a lot of time talking about football and what teams should do or the draft or this or that, but it is a people business, Randy. What a very good. difficult week for you. Just wanted to say condolences here, I'm sure, from all the listeners, too. Well, I appreciate that, Mike. Yeah, there's, like I told you and Marissa, there's no handbook

for dealing with this kind of stuff in the GM notebook. I mean, really, it's been a tough, tough thing to follow and to be a part of, and we are all hands on here at the Sea Dragons offices, and I think I put this on Twitter. Chris was more than a football player. He was in all of our lives, a magnanimous personality. I've had a chance to get to know his parents over the last couple days who have obviously come because of the tragedy and great, great people who I gained strength from. And I'll say this, and I'm not saying this in just either. Chris Smith made me better just in the six weeks I've been around him.

I love the guy and actually became very attached to him. So it's a sad time. It's something that you hope you never have to go through. through, no matter what your business, when you lose a friend and a employee, and I know it happens a lot in the world. But these guys on football teams now, it's a brotherhood. It's a really close-knit group. And yeah, it's been hard, hard to get through. But our guys are resilient, like most. And hopefully we're going to gain some strength from Chris's parents, like I said, who have been awesome. But it's been a tough go. And hopefully we can muster up enough win. We're in a kind of a

playoff hunt, not that that's is important part of the story, but these guys have a job to do as well. And I thought the outpouring for Chris Smith on social media around the world was incredible. And I didn't know some of the things that I learned over the last 24 hours about Chris. I mean, I read this in the London Times last night laying in bed of story and a picture. And, you know, NFL films did a video tribute. And we're going to do some things in Seattle this weekend to honor him as well. but I thought the outpouring was very relevant to his personality and how much he has rubbed off on everybody he touches throughout his 31 years. Absolutely, yeah.

What a great tribute to him and to his family. I was thinking as this came down, at the same time, DeMarne Hamlin now is relaunching his career. You know, you think about the ups and downs and what people go through not just on the field. I mean, off the field. There's so much that can weigh heavy on. on everyone's hearts. So certainly, did you have another thing there right? Well, I was just going to say, and we've talked about it here on the GM pod,

when GMs take jobs, when people of decision-making level get these jobs in the NFL especially, it's not just to sit in a room and pick players. Trust me. There are other things that you have to deal with and is a very people-oriented business and job. And that's the hard thing I think that owners, that search firms, that people that really struggle with the dynamics of these decision-making jobs evaluate when they put people in these chairs. And I'll be honest, it's not for everybody.

And these are the reasons why. Absolutely, yeah. Well, your leadership, certainly is your experience in leadership can't prepare you for everything, but you just have to fall back on what you think is right and treating people right. And, you know, the team, you're right. The team has to move on. There's going to be a playoff push, but hard to reconcile those things. sometimes when the human element is involved.

As for our show this week, I did mention we will get into some of the draft reviews. We have some news, too, Randy. Jalen Hertz, Super Bowl quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles, five-year, $255 million extension. What a great story when you think about, you know, when he came in and they drafted him, people were, oh, you might upset Carson Wentz. What are you doing? This guy can't even throw, you know, whatever. He was criticized as a pastor, all these things.

Looks pretty good now, huh? Yeah, I'll be honest with you. And I actually said this on Twitter a couple of days ago when he signed it. I don't think I have seen a player in all of my years in the NFL come from where he was when getting benched in the national championship game at Alabama to then transferring to Oklahoma to actually working on and improving his trade beyond measure, gets to be a second round pick with the Eagles. And now to sign a contract like this, I would have bet a lot. lot of money against this. Maybe not 255 million, but it has been a meteoric rise of epic proportion, and I don't think I've ever seen it.

And it is a credit to Jalen. It is a credit to his work ethic, his upbringing, his intangibles, because they really matter when you're talking about writing a check like this. All of that has to be part of it. And I think he's not only a light in a hope for Philadelphia, the city of, but a lesson for young kids, for everybody involved, they can gain something from this story. And I think it's really cool. Is this a one in a million thing, Randy?

Or is there something to be said for the, hey, take quarterbacks, you know. Remember Ron Wolf's probably most famous for doing it. They always had guys in Green Bay in the 90s, right? They'd pick a Tide Detmer or shoot, they had Kurt Warner in camp of Matt Hasselbeck, even though they had Brett Farf. So is there anything to be said for that? It's kind of hard to do, isn't it? The picks are so few, but it can pay off.

It can pay off. I also think it's another testament in the developing of players by NFL staffs, by NFL scouting departments, by NFL groups in general, because of the fact that they can develop players, and it just goes to show, I don't think the Eagles thought they had a starting quarterback when they drafted them in the second round. I'll be honest. If you gave Howard Rosen some truth serum, I'd say he probably thought, in fact, he and I texted a little bit about this because I like the pick in the.

the second round. I thought it would be a nice package. They could put together on offense where he could run the ball, do some things because I surely didn't view him as an NFL passer. But every step of the way, this kid has gotten better and better and better and handled more. Sometimes you see these guys when you throw more at them, they go the other way, right? The more you put on their shoulders, they go downhill. This guy is the trajectory and the trend has gone up. And every step of the way, he's passed with flying colors. So I think it's awesome. And I don't know about one in a million, but it is a true testament to you can get better at this game. Yeah, I think, you know, what's interesting to me about them now moving forward is, you know,

when you pay a quarterback, obviously, you lose some other resources to help your team. So sometimes if you pay top dollar for a middling quarterback, you might be okay, but it can be hard to get, you know, all the way over the top. And I think if we assume that over the next few years, it'll be harder for the Eagles to be as good around them, right? They lost a bunch of coaches. They had some age in a few spots. Maybe defenses will be a little bit wiser to their incredible quarterback sneak package or whatever, the scheming part of it. The competition probably catches up a little bit to you as you go, and you could oftentimes then need more from your quarterback, right, for him to carry more of the load.

How do you feel about that? Is he tapped out in this trajectory, or do you have hope that he's going to get even better so that when they do fall off, maybe they're the 22nd defense in the future that they can still be in the mix with him? I would never say Jalen Hertz is tapped out after what I've witnessed the last four years. So I don't think that's a worry of mine. I think in all that you speak on this, you're kind of the numbers guy. The way Howie Roseman has structured this contract, I think is unique. I'm not surprised by the total dollars. You can frame this just the way Mahomes deal was framed when he signed it. I think every NFL guy would tell you that Jalen Hertz is the top five quarterback. The only thing right now missing is maybe the elevation of other players around him because he's, you know, not to Mahom's status, but that's about it. So I think the way they structured this contract with the cap dollars, the way they've divided it up, still gives them a chance to put a really good product on the field, especially,

for the first four or five years of this deal. Then it's a crap shoot anyway. Then you're talking about redoing, and we talked about this on the pod before too, redoing, putting more guarantees on, reducing cap numbers for the next two or three years. This is a lifetime marriage. This is a career marriage, a deal like this.

And so they will work hand in hand with Jalen and his reps now to create cap room whenever they need it. That's why I never have understood the Lamar Jackson die on the hill of a fully guaranteed deal. when all these deals become fully guaranteed at some point. For quarterbacks. Yeah, for quarterbacks. So I like it. That's the thing is like, you know, when you really think about guaranteed contracts,

yes, there's a lot of players that it would really benefit them. Quarterbacks really aren't one of them. They get their money. They don't really move on from a starting quarterback unless you just happen to get Tom Brady luckily, right, or something like that. So if Lamar or Jalen or any of these guys is good enough to start, look at Kirk Cousins or whatever, you're going to get your money. Structure-wise, you're right. The cap numbers, I saw Adam Schaefter tweeted this. The cap numbers in the first four years are about 6, 14, 22, 32,

pretty nice for a four-year run. I stacked those up next to the ones on Patrick Mahomes deal at the time if he did it. He's since redone his deal. But really, it's about the same as Mahomes was in the first year. And then it's about $10 million cheaper per year in years two, three, and four. that gives them from flexibility. And I think from a cap standpoint, there's no one probably more proactive than the Eagles, right? I mean, Howie Roseman kind of came up in that cap world.

Jake Rosenberg's there. Those guys probably know how to do all of that stuff as well as anybody. So maybe they'll have the flexibility, right? And they're aggressive. They're owners willing to spend. We're going to talk a little bit about the difference between spending and wasting, but they're willing to do stuff. I thought, yes.

And I agree with you. I think both Jake and Howie are really good. at their jobs. In fact, Jake will probably be a GM here in the next couple of years and should get an opportunity based on a lot of what the other hirings have been around the league. Why not take a look at, you know, somebody like this who has fashioned a cap situation and the numbers to go with some great evaluating that the Eagles have done. I think the whole thing for me is it's framed with the idea that we can continue to grow our team. It's not the most important thing is to, from from Hertz's standpoint, the most important thing is not to get me my money.

I think you see a team concept here of similar to what Brady did, similar to what Mahomes did, and guess what? He's going to make money because they win games. Now that may be off the field. It may be someplace else, but there's a long range approach in my mind to his side and the business deals that he and his people are making that's going to fill his pockets beyond what he'll ever need. and it's multi-generational money. So to pick that a situation where I'm going to get all guaranteed like Lamar has just makes less sense to me. I was asked on a couple of radio shows the last couple days,

what does this do to Lamar's deal? Now, does it go through the roof? I don't think it changes the thing. I'll be honest with you, Mike. I really don't. They're having two different conversations. Yes. And I don't think anybody sees Lamar as a top five or six quarterback in the NFL at this point.

So let's just start with that premise. And I know everybody will say, oh, you hate her, this and that. Not true. And he's MVP, Randy, in 2019. I understand. But I guarantee you this, that Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, these guys aren't going to get fully guaranteed deals. And they're not really going to even ask for it. They may ask for it because in the end, there'll be some other bargaining chip that they get for coming off of that demand.

But they're not going to end up with fully guaranteed deals either. So the fact that that's what we want is, I think, a faulty negotiating stance. That's all. Yeah. And Hertz, for his part, I think two things we're interesting there. One is putting him in the top five of quarterbacks and we haven't done the quarterback tiers exercise this offseason. I don't know that everyone will have him.

I think that's really high praise. So you're moving him kind of into that tier one range off of what you've seen. We've been a little proactive in you and I, I say. Yeah, I get credit for your evaluations. Well, I don't know about that. But I know this. Before everybody else was sold on Hertz, I think you have. and I had the discussion that there's some stuff there to work with now. When it came to moving Russell

Wilson out of Seattle, I remember you and I had a discussion on this. And that would have been a place that I would have loved to have seen John Snyder and Pete Carroll go get hurts and give them Russell Wilson. But he hadn't got, I guess, enough body of work to prove to some, much like Daniel Jones was in the same boat. And now he's been paid as well. So I do think the evaluations matter. I think the scheme matters. I think the system matters. and I think just the general principle behind how this thing was structured all matters. So it's a good fit for everybody. And that's why I was going to say.

The other thing I was alluded to on Hertz was on this contract. Yes, there is a team-friendly structure there. But he still gets his wins. He gets the highest APY, right? He got the no-trade clause waived. So his agent, when she, it's Nicole Lynn as his agent, when she goes, you know, to recruit clients or whatever. She can recruit off of this.

She can recruit off of this. But it's not, but it doesn't have to be an. absolute, you know, we, you're not going to just, you're not going to go just defeat Hallie Roseman completely, right? You're going to get a compromised deal. So this one's really good. There's wins for everybody. And the biggest win is if he is a top five quarterback in the league, then a lot of this other

stuff is just details, right? I mean, I'll be looking forward to your tiers this summer when you do that because I think he's going to be rated higher than a lot of people think. I just think he's a good player that he was in the. MVP talk last year. So I don't know how. And maybe their system changes a little bit now that Shane Steichen is gone. But I think they understand this kid's skill set and how he needs to operate. But I also think he's gotten a lot better at throwing the football from the pocket. So we'll see if that can go to the next step as well. Absolutely. It would be a great discussion point for this

off season. Good for him. Good for the Eagles. A couple quick ones here before we move on to your draft rankings of running backs and tight ends. Rams trading Alan Robinson to the Steelers. I was trying to read. What was traded here? They switched picks in the seventh round. That's nothing. Throw that aside.

Basically, the Rams are saving $5 million, I think, on this one. They are, well, are they really? They're not saving $5 million. They're going to pay $10 million of this salary. To save $5 million in cap. Is that right? Well, they're going to pay $10 million and the Steelers are going to pay $5 million. Okay.

So otherwise they would have had to pay $15 million, right? So whatever. There's a couple components to this thing. I mean, what's your first takeaway seeing it? Typical, you know, I won't say it. Go ahead. Well, I just, I look at the amount of money that the Rams have flushed cash-wise. And I see it a little different in the, I don't know how I could go into Stan Cronkey's office and say, hey, Stan, we're doing a great job, taking care of your money.

You know, we won one Super Bowl. Now we're going to try to win another one. we're in a semi-rebuild here. I just would be nervous dumping, and you can say it's sunk cash, sunk costs. I don't know how we term it, but they have made decisions to sign multiple players to giant money deals and in some cases give away high draft picks to get them, and they've kind of washed them out now. So I'll give them credit.

They're ahead of the curve in a lot of their thinking. I'm not sure I could do this because this is a hard one. unless you're just printing money in the back lot in LA somewhere and it doesn't really care. I bristle at the times when people say, oh, the cap's just funny money. It's not, people. Trust me. It is real. You got to pay.

Yeah. And at some point, you have to pay. Now, we all use credit cards for some of our debts in the real world. And that's what teams do. They use credit spending, but eventually you got to pay the credit card bill. And so that's kind of, you know, this is a hard one for me only because of what they paid, Alan Robinson a year ago, what they paid the corner that they traded, what they paid golf that they traded. You can go on and on with a lot of cash that has just been flush.

So I would like to hear how that conversation goes. I've never worked for an owner like that that doesn't care about his cash. So I'd like to know how that conversation goes. Well, we're going to flip, we're going to continue all in that vein when we talk about the Trey Lance rumors. But first, I just wanted to say from a Steelers standpoint, they've been pretty good in their acquisition of wide receivers over the years, especially through the draft. Now, Granted, that was Kevin Colbert was the general manager. Omar Khan's the GM now, so we don't know if it's going to be exactly the same. But if you're, should Steelers fans be excited to get an Alan Robinson, you know,

at a discounted salary, I guess, from what with the Rams paying a bunch of it? I would be ecstatic because if we can get the Alan Robinson of two years ago in Chicago, or actually maybe three years ago, he was one of the better receivers in the league. So I think it helps the Steelers big time. It's risk-free. Like you said, that the compensation is. minimal. It's not even, it doesn't even register. And the upside for that kind of risk to me is, I'd take that deal every day. And you've liked Kenny Pickett coming out, nice little addition for him,

right? Give him a veteran. No doubt. I think it's a great team building move for them to strengthen a position that only makes them better and strengthens Kenny Pickett as well. Yep. So we were talking about you weren't sure you could go into Rams owner Stan Cronkey's office as a GM and say, hey, I'm taking good care of your money, your resources. So I wanted to use that to segue into this news from, I think it was for me in Rappapur, saying the 49ers are receiving inquiries from several teams looking into a potential trade for Trey Lance. And get this, Randy, quote, the conversations have been the result of SF, San Francisco,

fielding the calls, not making them. Of course not. With teams aware that Brock Purdy is likely the future starters. So sounds like this would be. possibly coming from the 49ers, who, by the way, I think a couple years ago, gave up a ton to get Tray Lance. And Tray Lance has started four games. Brock Purdy started more than that, but not a ton more.

Had an arm surgery. So what do you make of this? You're the reporter, and I'm not questioning Ian Rapapar, but this seems like a pretty well-placed source story that may benefit an agenda generated by somewhere in the Bay Area. I'm not sure of all the details behind it, but that's just me being maybe a little cynical. But yes, I think they're trying to drum up some Trey Lance interest. But again, I go back to the amount of assets that they gave away to get up to get trade Lance. It was a giant risk.

It was then lauded as the greatest move ever by most of the media, by everybody involved. And now it's back to, oh, man, we're going to give this guy up for a discount. So let's just say it's true. Let's say there are a couple teams that are interested, and there's a two-team bidding war. What are they going to get for Trey Lance? You tell me that. Tell me what could you possibly get that you could go into Jed York's office and say,

hey, we got this done. We gave up two number ones. Yeah, two, what is it? You tell me what they gave up to get up to get him, and I'll tell you what I think makes sense to move. It was a ton. Yeah, I'd have to look it up. It was nuts.

It was so much stuff. Yeah. It was a lot of stuff. Right. And now you got Rand Carthorn in Tennessee. And I think part of Ian's report was maybe Atlanta because of the system that they run. I mean, what could you get? A third or fourth round pick?

I mean, I don't, that's about it, right? Maybe. I don't know. I guess it depends on what people would see in him. I think four starts is not very many to evaluate them. Well, I sure couldn't give them more than a project type grade after three years, you know. He should have more value to the 49ers than anyone because they're the ones who loved him. Yes.

What have they seen to hate him other than Brock Purdy look good? Yes. I mean, it's a sales job that I don't know. I mean, I go back to the Carmen Policy Days the way they used to come up with some crazy scenarios that suited them that they used to float around the league. And this is another one of those that I don't, I mean, I don't distrust Shanahan or Lynch or anybody. They didn't know what they're doing. But again, I can't. they gave up all this for Trey Lanson and now they're willing to sell them at a discount.

I just, it's something I don't know that the knowing of which has to change everything. Yeah, well, there's just some really big, especially on the really big moves, you know, I think they've made some, they obviously win just about, you know, most of these years, and they've got a good team. But some of these moves, I think another one was trading to Forrest Buckner, and then you end up drafting Kinlaw, and that, you know, okay, now we're signing the top defensive free agent up front, Javar and Hargrave this year, you know, right? Those are resources too, right, that are being used off of decisions. No doubt. And I guess timing maybe is involved. Some years you have a

better cap situation than others, and I get it. But I thought Buckner was one of the top defense alignment in the league. And I think the common narrative when they left him was let him go was they couldn't afford him. Well, I guess they could afford Hargrave. And I like them both. So I just don't know, you're kind of spinning your wheels, to be honest with you. Yep. Before we get into the draft rankings and then later the GM Notebook, one 49er note here, Dave Wilcox died. Remember Dave Wilcox?

I sure do. Justin's dad, right? The head coach at Cal? Yeah. Yeah. Hall of Fame Dave Wilcox, right? Hall of Fame lineback. He played 64 to 74.

So I'm just a few years younger than you are, so I don't remember him playing. But I looked up a pretty cool little story on him when he, when he was. I was playing, and you may have a thought or two on him as well. But Dave Wilcox said something, kind of, we started this off talking about, you know, the people component of the game and why it's enjoyable to be involved in team sports. And I thought there was a couple things that were cool that Dave Wilcox said in a newspaper story back when he was playing in the 70s. He said, he sounded like Mueller here. He goes, look, I'm from Vale, Oregon. It sounds like I'm just an Idaho guy, a little small town out of there. I'm from Vale Oregon. If I,

hadn't been for football, I'd probably never even flown on an airplane. He said, I really dig the game, a little 70s, you know, 70s wording there. I really dig the game. Where else can you get 40 people working their butts off toward one goal? It's kind of a unity thing. It's part of being something good. Athletics teaches an individual. He said, the first thing it teaches you is you're not going to win everything. He said, the toughest thing about football for me is going to be when I have to quit. I don't want to be a hangar on or going from one team to another. And he's one of those guys who was a Hall of Fame player who played his whole career in one place. And then when it was time to move on, he was done. Dave Wilcox passed away. He's 80 years old. God bless him. I love the

story and I love the correlation, Mike, because you're right. That's old school and it's small town. And you don't see it quite as much nowadays. I met Dave and his wife one time in an airport. And we got to talking. I think it was when I was in Seattle at the time. And so they were kind of Seahawk fans because they were obviously Eugene people and Oregon people. And we got this talking. And they remembered me playing at Linfield, another Oregon town. And we had an awesome conversation one time. And it was like me talking to my friends and family back in little Idaho. It was, it's funny you bring it up because, and I've known Justin through the years as well. Really good coach, really wired the same way. You just root for people like that that are really well grounded. And I don't think people realized how good

of a player Dave Wilcox was. I mean, that's the thing that I took away from it. When you study him like you have, like some of us that have grown up in the game, really an awesome player and doesn't get enough credit for being a Hall of Fame player. I know. Believe it or not, the 40-9ers were not founded when Bill Walsh got there. There were players there before that who were pretty good, even if the team wasn't as successful. So rest in peace, Dave Wilcox. Let's hit. the running back rankings, shall we? Yeah, I love it. I think it's awesome. We can see some playmaking. I know that. Yeah, absolutely. So I went through, you know, I went through just like when we talked about receivers

last week. I relistened, reeducated myself to some of your rankings from last year. And at this position, Randy's, I think, either looking for a back who can do it all, play third down, have the explosive athleticism to score from anywhere, or a spot player who has a skill set that fits well with who you already have on your team. Maybe he rounds at your group. So far so good. Is that kind of what you're thinking? Yeah, I don't think you're, I think you've listened to me too much.

And maybe you're, maybe our listening. I'm learning. Bored to death too. But it is what it is. And it's served me well over the years. I know that. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Over the years, you have drafted Amman Green, all time leading Russia and Packers history, Duce McAllister, who is second. I'd look this up. He's second on the all-time list by about 400 yards. for the Saints, too. You know who's number one? The all-time leading rusher? Yeah.

I was surprised. Mark Engram. Oh, I see. No, no, yeah. I didn't know what you mean. The Saints. Yes, that's the name that came to my mind. Yes, no doubt.

Yes. So a couple good ones there. How do you see this group this year? There's going to be a lot of talk, too, about the number one guy and how we should go. Well, I think it's a really good group, to be honest with you. And I was surprised. I looked at probably eight or ten of the consensus guys that most people are talking about. I don't have a list.

that gets shaken up much. You might be surprised with one or two names, but the obvious first choice is Bejohn Robinson from Texas. There's no surprise with him. I was happy to watch him. And I'll just give you a couple facts and then tell you how I gathered the information that I needed. I mean, I think his kid's one of the best players in a draft. He has a complete skill set.

He backs it up production as a three-down player with all the numbers that anybody ever wants, size, speed, burst, instincts. I could go on and on. He is sudden for a big man, probably even more so than a Ricky Williams. I remember from Texas. I'm trying to think of complete backs like that. I think he's all of that. He has hands.

He understands routes. He's going to come into the league, I think, is one of the best backs in the league when he gets off the bus. But I thought as a tribute to this guy, I should mention this, he has a lot of big games, some big numbers, where he runs for a lot of yards. And they're not all against... podunk teams. I looked at his game against Alabama in which his, I should look it up, it's a minimal day of like 20 carries for 60 yards or something like that. Yeah, yeah. But I saw on a tough day

every skill I needed. So I didn't need to go look at one of these 200-yard games. I looked at a lot of film. But I thought that I could see in the Alabama game, which was not a great game for him numbers-wise. I saw the toughness. I saw the ability to run people over. I saw him run around people. I saw the past protection being enough. I saw the skill set as a receiver, all in that one game, and it just goes to show me that you don't have to look at big numbers to evaluate players. You see that skill set in other games and other events as well. And I was really impressed with this kid. How high he goes, I would kind of have to see the rest, and I haven't seen everybody yet, but I'll end up with a top 10 and maybe we can talk about that next week. I'll be

shocked if he's not in that top 10 and maybe in the top five. And I know people are going to say, oh, you can't take a running back that high. That doesn't matter when you're evaluating and stacking your board. That does not matter. You don't get to say, hey, we can't have this guy up there because he's a running back. I think what determines how high he gets is the quality of the players around him at other positions. And I haven't seen 10 better players than Robinson, the running back from Texas. I can promise you that. Yeah, you'd rather have him than the 25th best player in the draft. 100% or the third best receiver because we really need a receiver.

And again, it's all about options when you're on the clock. You've got to pick the thing that's the best option for you. And I struggle, as you know, with picking to fill needs when there are better players on the board. The best draft I ever had, anybody's ever had, is when you line up your need is also the best player on your board. That's how you determine how quality of a pick the guy is. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, you mentioned Ricky Williams. The Saints traded their whole draft for him. Not that that's a good strategy, but it shows you that how, in what regard, what sort of class you're holding Robinson. I think a lot of people are, but that's pretty good that it checks out. And including, I like that you could see it even in a game where he didn't have the stats. So you think he's going very high. Is there no one else really comparable on that level? I don't think there's anybody in his level.

I could see this kid be in a top five pick, and that team might be criticized. I don't see how they could. Someone's going to get a really good player, and he's good enough to where he's going to make that team better. So I couldn't critique or criticize anybody that sees it that way or that doesn't, you know, says you can't after running back because they'll never get to a second contract, and those guys are devalued cap-wise. This guy's a really good player above and beyond all that. So I think he's phenomenal when it comes to where he's at.

right now in the college game. I guess the one downside might be, and I think he's got over 500 carries. So there's a little mileage there that sometimes can be a little bit of a yellow flag. I won't say red flag, but that's an issue as well. You have Tank Biggsby of Auburn second. Why? How has he fit into this? He was my surprise of this group, and I don't really know where the gurus have him rated. I have not talked to teams about him, but I saw on tape a guy with a really good natural run vision, a great feel, excellent pad level through the line of scrimmage. He runs hard. He's six foot 2.10, but he ran like a back at weighed 220 to me. His acceleration to make jump cuts when his holes clogged and to put his foot in the ground

and go north and south was really good. I thought he made people miss. He plays like a big back, but yet when he gets in the secondary, he plays like a small back. He catches easy, and he also has some return skills, although his returns have been limited as a kickoff guy in college. And and there's not many, I think that could be exploited at the NFL level. All the tools for me to be a surely starting NFL running back would not be surprised if he went, you know, late first, early second, somewhere in that range. I'm actually going to look and see where people have him because I am not a huge draft, Nick. Yeah, nor am I.

But yeah. But I determined, a lot of people really follow it. And I just feel like right before the draft, like you're almost better off not. listening to what everyone says because there's just a lot of stuff flying around. And then they all get into the league anyway and they're different from what half the people thought they were going to be anyway. Right. So I'm going to look Tank Biggsby.

I'll just look at Dane Brugler's list of running backs. Sure. He had him as a third round grade and the, uh, the sixth back. So we'll see, uh, we'll see. And that's what you said before is, hey, one man's opinion is, that and you get together with other people who have different opinions and you come together for a consensus that's not going to be your exact ranking, right? It doesn't mean Dane's wrong at all. It just means that we see it a little different. And

we'll see at the end of the day, you'd love to have a consensus. And it doesn't always mean let's split the difference either. There are a lot of traits and things that one person might see that another person doesn't see. The big thing about evaluating talent and being a team builder is the idea is to see something in a player that maybe not everybody sees. And when you sit down to consensualize what you're talking about, that's what I would look for in Scouts. Give me something that nobody else is seeing or something that everybody else is seeing and it's obvious. But I want to know exactly what you're seeing that somebody else might not see and identify

that trade. So top two backs are in the books, Bejohn Robinson Tank. Bigsby, who do you have number three, Randy? I actually have the third and fourth guy rated simultaneously at the same level. I think Devin A-Chain from Texas A&M and Jemir Gibbs from Alabama, I would say, are very similar in value. I think they're a little different style back. I'll talk about the A&M kid first. And you mentioned it off the top, Mike, when talking about these running backs and maybe it's a weakness of mine.

But these guys that are explosive and give me the feeling that he might score every time he touches the ball, that's the kind of back I want. I felt like that with Deuce. I felt like that with Amman. I feel like these guys, and this guy's a little smaller. He's 5-9, 188 pounds, two-year starter at A&M. Had a full load this year, 196 carries on this smaller frame. Also, though, 36 catches. He might need the right scheme at the next level, but this kid is explosive.

He has make you miss suddenness. He runs much harder and bigger than those measurables would indicate, like I mentioned. He's hard to get on the ground. He made me say, wow, more than once in a bunch of games, Mike. I mean, I love that. He shows no hesitation to run inside at that size, and he has great speed to bounce and turn the corner. I think the kid could translate, and I didn't see the kickoff return stuff, but I think he could translate into a top kickoff return guy as well. So although his style is different than Gibbs, the Alabama kid, I think both of these guys probably are more suited for a little bit of a niche and a rotational type role.

Gibbs for me, and that's what Gibbs did at Alabama. There's another kid that's an underclassman in Alabama who he shared time with. Gibbs had 150 carries, so not quite as much as A-chain. But his suddenness, his elusiveness, warrants some time for me. And I'm talking about Gibbs as a slot receiver as well. His best thing he does is catch the ball. He really excels in the past game. I thought his hands were some of the best hands in the business in this year's draft.

As a runner, he's a one-cut, definitive decision-maker. At 200 pounds, I didn't see him move in piles, but I saw a bigger frame than you would think, even at that size, 5, 10, 200. He might be more of a weapon than an everyday back for me at the next level. But I rated these two guys the same, and it depends on your scheme and how you see as a fit as to who you would pick first. But I like them both. I think both these guys are probably second or third round guides for me, but I would love

to have one of these guys, especially A chain, if you had a need for some explosiveness and some speed, because I think he'll help you on special teams as well. Yeah, very good. And your fifth guy is Zach Evans. We'll miss. Yep. Six foot, 215 pounds, four, five estimate, transfer from TCU, an all-around skill set to me that translates to the NFL, maybe some as a backup, but maybe some as a part-time rotational guy. What I liked about him was his natural vision. vision to find holes. He breaks arm tackles. He shows juice to bounce and turn the corner as well, like we had said with some of these earlier guys, backs that run, you know, high four-fours, even four-five to me are hard to find. It seems like everybody has a fast 40-speed attached to their

name now, but they don't always play fast. And that's the difference for me. These guys all, for me, played fast. Evans need to shore up his pass protection technique. At the right time in this year's draft, though, I think he's going to be a really good value. I think he fits for teams that run a one-back set might be worthy of reps, like I said, as a slot receiver as well. So a versatile piece that I got excited about seeing. And those were the five best guys that I saw. I'm looking forward to following up next week if we do get into stacking the top 10 or that sort of a thing to figure out where B. John Robinson would slot in to just kind of have that discussion a little bit more. Because it is kind of a hot button discussion lately.

And I think there's probably some good ways to explain it. And it's a lot easier when you're looking at actual players, right? And you can make some differentiations and say, hey, where is that spot where even if I do discount the positional value a little bit, I got to do it. I think that's a really interesting discussion that could add to the conversation. Let's transition into the tight end rankings here. And one of the things I remembered from last year, I always was writing down who you had in your top whatever. And Isaiah likely was one that we, I think you had this is your favorite one coming out of the draft last year. He ended up going mid-round, I believe, maybe fourth round to the Ravens.

Had a nice year. I think of all the rookie tight ends, he was number one in Target share for his team, had 13% of their targets, says a little bit about the Ravens' offense, but a nice year for Isaiah likely. So that was fun. This year, I think as with running backs, you looked at kind of the consensus top 10 or so at the tight-end position.

What did you find? comparably speaking to last year's draft, I would say I have much more passion and much more vigor for this year's group. I thought it was a great group, Mike. And I'm not a guy who recommends tight ends as being a focal point in a passing game. But there's some guys this year that really intrigued me that I love because I think offensive minds and offensive schemes can really use these guys more so than ever before. They don't necessarily have to be part of a system per se. The first guy for me is Utah kid, Dalton Kincaid, 6.3.5, 246. I don't know what his speed really is, but he runs 4-5-5 on tape for me. He's a really good player. And I enjoyed watching him probably as much as any guy I've seen in the draft this year.

He can run, he can catch, he can get open without being schemed. He'll be a guy that wherever he ends up, the quarterback locks onto constantly. And he'll be able to find not only a checkdown with him, but he'll be skimed. schemed because he's such a good matchup against linebackers. I don't see how any of an NFL linebackers are going to be able to keep up with this guy. His versatility will fit any offense, even though he may not be that traditional end of the line tight end. His skill set translates because he's tough. He's an aggressive offensive weapon. I think he's going to get picked really early. And in most cases, I would say, wait a second. Now, we can't pick tight ends in the top 10 or 12. Yeah. This one would make sense to me. He's that good. And I think he's the,

The explosiveness puts him in the category. And again, this is getting off the bus. He's in the Kiddell category in the Kelsey not as accomplished by any means, but this guy has the skill set to jump up at some point to those kind of tight ends in the league. So I was fired up, as you can tell to watch him. So last year, or whenever it was, is it two years now when the Falcons took Kyle Pitts? Yeah, maybe it's been two years ago, I think. I think it was in the top 10, number eight.

You weren't as excited. Now, that's also in relation to what's available, how do you feel about Dalton Kincaid in relation to him? And just off the top of your head, would you be thinking, hey, maybe he could go that early and I'd be okay? I think he'll be a top 10 player. I don't know how the rest of the draft is going to stack out as to how high he actually goes. We can have this discussion next year. There's some guys on defense, especially in that front seven that I haven't fit in in my mind yet as to who and when. I'd rather have them.

But Kincaid will be in the mix. He's a really versatile offensive piece that I could see offensive coordinators knocking down my door as a GM in the NFL and saying, hey, man, this guy can change what we're doing on offense. And I've heard that for a lot of years. My pushback has always been, yeah, but you've got to scheme him and use him. And that jumps outside the system of what you do. Nowadays, these guys are play callers and they actually design things more so jumping out of a scheme or a rhythm offense. I think that part of the football has changed. So I think you can use these tight ends a lot more than you could.

And they can be a vital part of your passing game. So coaching's improved in that sense, right? Well, they're more apt to get away from their hardcore of their own system, in my opinion. Yeah, which, you know, hey, you have a certain talent here. You can make better use of them as opposed to, well, drafts a Dalton Kincaid, but he just doesn't fit. Yeah. make them fit, right? Well, it's kind of like it reminds me of Chicago when they had Greg Olson,

and Mike Martzer's running the offense and said, yeah, it doesn't really fit with what we're doing. Yeah. Greg Olson was an awesome tie-in, and he did pretty good at Carolina for a lot of years. So, yeah, I think now you're talking to, and that's probably a good comparison with Dalton Kincaid. Greg Olson was a, I think, top 15 pick the year he came out. This guy has a similar type skill set, maybe even a little more explicit. You had Darnell Washington of Georgia second. What do you like about him? And how does he compare? I liked everything about Washington. And I didn't know him from Adam. I've watched a little bit of

Georgia ball, but I hadn't studied this guy in particular. He has 45 career catches. So you might question how I could even have him rated to this level. I go back a long ways, as we've talked about a lot of years in the draft. I think I can make a case for this guy maybe being as unique as any tight in that I've seen the last 10 or 15 years. And I'll be honest, I didn't know about him. He's elite size. He's 606.5. He's 264. He runs 4.6. He has size, speed, the physical presence that I have not seen. This is a big dude now. And he's, he's like a man playing amongst boys. And this is at Georgia. And they're playing the top schools in the country, right? His catch radius makes him an open target all the time, even when he's covered. I think he can run after the catch.

He's a hard guy for defenders to bring down. He's got really good body control for a big man. In fact, I think his body control for a guy, almost six, seven is rare. He's an effective blocker in the running game to where I would run behind this guy. He stands next to the tackles at Georgia, Mike. And I can't tell you who the tackle is if I don't see their jersey number. That's how big he is. He moves people on double teams.

He completely annihilates people on down blocks. I think he's a real contributor on three downs. and an advanced passing game at the next level would project this guy into the top heap of tight ends, in my opinion. Now, I don't know about his character. I don't know about how he learns best. I don't know about his work ethic. But if those things checked out, this kid would be an option for me to be an every down. And you can justify picking a tight end if he's an every down player and helps you in both the run and pass game.

This guy would be a guy that Bill Parcells would say, let's pick this guy now because he does everything that I want in a tight end back. in the day, you know, a guy that can line up as a blocker. He's Mark Bavarro only a way better athlete. Six, six and a half, 264. And that is like, you know, really back in the day, tight ends looked like tackles. And they kind of were tackles. They didn't all run and move. This guy blocks like a tackle, but he runs like a tight end.

Yeah, it's great. I was thrilled with it. It was fun to watch him. I don't again, I don't know where people have. Why do you have Kincaid above him? It sounded like you, I was almost sold that I want Washington after. Well, you could make the case, but I think Kincaid is such an explosive athlete that in this day and age of touch football, seven on seven, which is what the NFL is becoming.

It's becoming more of a passing league than anything. That's why I have Kincaid rated higher, just because I think the passing threat that he brings to the table is probably a little greater than Darnell, Washington. Yep. Okay. Number three for you. My next guy, and people tell me to put down a crack pipe, too, I think when they hear, is a kid. from Oregon State, Luke Musgrave, who played two games this year and he had 11 catches. I think my comp for him is Mike Jaseki from the dolphins. A longer lineal. I have faith to project

him to the next level after just the two games from this year. In my exposure, he has speed, he has quickness, he has body control. And I should add that the reason he only played two game is he did have a knee injury. So there's going to be some issues medically, which probably takes him out of the top range and the top maybe round or two. But I think this guy is a very good detailed route runner. He has speed to stretch the deep middle in zones. I think most NFL teams will value this guy depending on where he is with the knee as a solid second, maybe a third round pick. This guy can run. He catches with a nice radius. He catches low balls. He catches high balls. But the thing about these guys that are so tall at almost 6-6, his

body control makes you think you're watching a much smaller dude, man. I mean, he's in and out of breaks. He can separate from tight coverage, but yet at six foot six, the quarterback can find him so easily. Philip Rivers always used to say, hey, I want to, he's six, six himself. I want to throw to other big guys. It's easy for me to see him and find him. This guy will be that, and he's very athletic. So I like Luke Musgrave from Oregon State as my third tight end. Yeah. Okay. Who do you got four. Most of the of the gurus out there that I've seen and I've watched this kid for a couple years have this kid rated higher than I do. Michael Mayer, the tight-in from Notre Dame. He's a popular evaluation and I don't see anything wrong with his kid. He's a very good college player. He has

a versatile skill set. He'll do everything at the NFL level that we ask tight-ins to do. He's just not the dynamic athlete that these other three guys. And so that's why he falls forth on my list. He has physical strength. He has want to block attitude. He'll be a good blocker. He can run routes effectively. He can catch everything that's thrown to him. I don't necessarily think the system's going to have to always get him open. It'll have to get him open some because he's not quite as clean in and out of breaks as the other three guys I've mentioned. But I think he's a solid NFL player. And there's a lot of these guys that are starting around the NFL. I've heard from a couple scouts about great character, great work ethic. So I think there's very little risk with him, maybe a slightly safer pick,

but he's just a different level of athlete and it's slightly below these other three guys in my opinion. So for you, he's a harder one to take in the first round. Oh, I could never do that. I couldn't take Musgrave in the first round because of the body of work and I surely couldn't take mayor, in my opinion, as a top round guy at all. I just, you're getting a guy that runs 4-7. And for me, the game has changed. If you can't run, Mike, it's a struggle. And I'm not trying to say 4-7 can't run, but you can't run compared to these other guys. And so I think you're looking at a different type of athlete. Again, he'll play and he'll probably go to a place like the Giants where Brian Dayball does want to run the ball,

maybe like Buffalo where they want to run the ball. I don't see him being the dynamic pass catcher and ability to be a match-up nightmare like the other guys that we've talked about. Yep. Sam LaPorte of Iowa is number five for you. Yep. How come? I think the versatility is what puts him there for me. And I looked at four or five more of these guys and he kind of came to the top of that second group.

And I'm talking, you know, now maybe fourth, fifth round, somewhere in the mid part of the draft. Sam is a productive, multi-use guy. I think at 6.3, 250, he runs 4-6 and some change. 150 college catches on his resume as a tied-in, but probably more so. So as an h-back, a full-back, a U-stick kind of guy who gets moved around in different schemes and personnel groupings. I like his quickness. I like his body control.

He's got a really nice feel for coverage in the passing game. Hands and ball skills are above average. He's smart. He's under control as a blocker so he can effectively be used on the second level to block linebackers and combo people in space. He's very good finding the target to block him and then adjusting and being under control when he gets there. I liked him a lot of the probably four or five other guys that I looked at as a mid-round choice. I just think the versatility that he shows, the ability to do everything pretty

dang good. I think in last year's group, he would have been rated a lot higher, but I think there's four really good tight ends ahead of him for me. So I think he's, and he'll be a good guy to follow. He's about scheme fit and about an offense that uses a guy like him. And if he gets to the right place, I think he'll be a good solid pro. Sam LaPorter from Iowa. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned not generally taking tight ends early. I went back through your Seattle years, and I could try to stump you, but you probably saw the notes. The earliest tight end I found you taking, I don't think you took one earlier in New Orleans. And if you did later than that, I just didn't get to check. But it was probably Christian Fourier, second round of 95. He ended up playing 191 games, had a really nice career. But couldn't

find a first rounder. Do you ever remember taking one? No, I promise I didn't take one. It seemed like we always had too many other needs, maybe. I don't know. But tight in back. But the position, too. Yeah. The effectiveness of that position wasn't a priority. And I always thought, and it's changed a little bit, if the tight in is the focal point of

your offense, we're probably a slower plotting type offense. And that was nothing against these guys. It just wasn't what I was trying to build. And that's just my personal preference. Yep. All right. What do you got in the GM notebook? That's a great question.

Let me thumb through it. I know we're running out of time. Yeah. No, I know we're doing fine. We're actually doing great. I thought of this. I know if there's three things in there, I didn't steal any of them this week. Yeah, I'm used to having nothing when we get to the end of the show that you have a pilfered through that list at the end of it.

So I have to make something up on the fly. I thought this was interesting. And those, our listeners probably follow the NBA as well and what the Mavericks did at the end of their season. And I got a lot of this because I'm in Dallas, right? So I hear that the Mavericks take all the time. Cubans always ripping on the NFL. Remember, the NFL is going to be out of business in 10 years? Those that might not know that the Mavericks had a chance the last game of the year to win and get in the playoffs,

but elected to essentially tank and take a pick that was protected if they didn't make the playoffs and keep it and elect to not make the playoffs instead. So that pick is yet to be determined where it is depending on the lottery and where their ball comes up. But it could be a 10, 11, 12 in the first round pick. but they elected to pass on going to the playoffs to get a potential of maybe a top 10 or 12 player next year. And I thought, if I did something like this in the NFL where I was in charge of a team, I don't know if I'd have the guts to walk through the locker room and talk to players again if I asked them to do this so that we could potentially get a player, unknown player, undrafted player, and pass up on a chance to get in the playoffs.

Now, maybe the game of NBA basketball is totally different. I get it. One player can really matter, but I don't know that it's a guarantee they're going to get that player. And I think the culture of what football is all about, the culture of that locker room, not giving everything it has, not producing a winning playoff team, not building off that success, the culture is just so different that those guys might tar and feather me when I walk through there.

I just struggled with that whole concept. Help me. Maybe I'm just seeing it from an old school guy. Well, you would, I do, I thought about this quite a bit at the time because my initial instinct is like yours that, hey, we're always here trying to do our best to win the game no matter what, that everyone's always doing that. But then I also kind of see it as more of a reflection of the system of the NBA, the way that it's set up, they set it up in a manner to where maybe in the long term interest of the organization, this actually could be a big difference for their team, which I don't know. I followed the NBA very closely in the 80s and the 90s. Then I was married, family covering the NFL, didn't really watch. And now I'm a little bit back into it this year because having grown up in Sacramento when the Kings moved there,

I was already kind of a Laker fan. Karim was my guy. But I followed the Kings and then really the last 10 or 15 years, they've been so detestably bad that I stopped watching. Well, now they're back in it. So now I'm an expert. I've watched a few games with the Kings. I really know about it.

But I would imagine that there is a difference. There's different mechanisms that work to tank in the NBA. Guys are already missing games for load management. It came down to playing different players, right? In the NFL, it would be very impractical. You'd be asking guys to go out there and play, who are starters, offensive linemen and stuff, in a game you're not trying to win. and risk your bodies and play all out in a manner that I think it's more acute and

difficult to do in the NFL. That's what I would think. And I don't disagree with any of that. I think you've said it a lot clearer than I ever could. I just know that everything we're trying to do on the NFL side and the message and the content of the fabric of our team, I don't know if I could put that at rest and not try to win. And I bristle at the tanking stuff.

It's thrown around by the media a ton. It's even in the NFL. I've never even thought about it. I've never, I don't agree. I think every NFL team is trying their butts off to win for the 99% of the time. Because guess what? You're going to be tanking for the next gym and the next coach so they can pick the player. Because we're all day to day in the NFL.

So I just, I don't believe in it and I don't believe it happens. But maybe I just need to open my mind to leave it. No, no. I think I'm with you. And I thought that I just thought, there was a little, the fact that it was Mark Cuban being as outspoken as he is, and then he got what do you get fined, a bunch of money. 750 grand, just a little bit.

Yeah, I know you probably lose that in your couch at night, but 750 mils a lot of, or 750 grand is a lot of money. Yeah, absolutely. What's the second item in the notebook? The second item caught me off guard a little bit, and I always end up, I don't want to pick on Ron Rivera, but he was in his draft presser in the last week or so, made a comment when asked about Lamar Jackson and the new owner and all that, and he kind of poohed it by saying I got to get back in my draft meetings. We have our quarterback. I guess my only take on

it was if I was Ron and I've been in an ownership group that traded ownership in and around the draft, I would be trying to do everything I can and listen to every point of view I can to collect the amount of information I can to always put us in the middle of a deal. And it seemed like, and maybe he just doesn't want the media to run rampant with the Lamar Jackson speculation. I get that part of it. But I would surely be dealing with the new owners as much as I can. And if I'm the new owner, I would want to say, hey, we need to investigate all of this stuff.

I just hope behind the scenes that the concept isn't as dismissive as it seems like when Ron is asked about this publicly. I think that the dismissive part of it bothered me a little bit. I would hope that commander fans are more of the ilk that, hey, can we do everything to make this team as good as we can? I don't know. Maybe it's just that I'm not buying the Sam Howell stuff at this point and anointing him, the king of Puba.

But I just think if I was them, it might make some sense to talk about the Lamar Jackson deal in some vein, because he would change and raise our expectations of everything we're doing around here. And I guess my tenor was, Ron must have about a tenor. year contract because his answer came across as, I have no pressure on me to do anything. I'm just going to be here forever. And I've been in those shoes. Everybody's replaceable. And I just didn't feel like he gave it justice.

That's all. Yeah. It'll be interesting. We didn't even talk about the ownership change of the commanders. Maybe we can do that another time. But it's been talked about a lot. You know, and part of me thinks that Ron Rivera has already served his purpose there, pretty much, which was to get them through the end of the Snyder regime.

team. I'm not saying he's going to be fired or anything like that. But I think he was brought in because he was a credible person who had been in the chair before, who could handle the tough questions, and give them a respected face to an organization that was not respectable at that time and was going through a bunch of stuff. Which I think he's done. He's been great at it. Yeah. But I do think at some point they need to do better too. So that will be interesting to see what, you know, the new owner is going to come in. I can't imagine. I would think there's going to be some changes. Just put it that way. Could be. When that are comes in. But we'll see.

This year could say a lot of that, how well they do. Maybe how is the answer? We'll find out. Number three in the notebook for you. Well, I had, and I want to give this more time. I know we're a little bit up against the time. The Buda Baker request for a trade in Arizona probably spawns a little bigger conversation, just in where their culture is, where they've come and gone from in the last, you know, month. I think there's a lot of things going on there that I would like to speak on the Buddha Baker issue at some point, but I just think they have some bigger fish to fry in Arizona.

And if my best player, the heart and soul of my team wanted to be traded, I would sure try to make him feel welcomed enough to where it didn't get to the public. That was really the disappointing part for me because I know a little bit about Buddha. Obviously, we know he's a Seattle kid. And I know he wants to win. And for him to come out. Yeah, passionate. And I know he comes at this from the heart and from the emotional standpoint.

I don't blame anybody for this. I just think at some point, if my best player is out there doing this, it's probably harmful for the cause. So I think that's a discussion that in a team building fashion probably needs to be had internally, and I would have hoped that. Hopefully it didn't happen. I'm going to blame Michael Bidwell for that is what I'm going to blame because I I mean, this is really not just an isolated thing that happened right now.

This has been coming. And that organization has been through a lot of questionable decisions, which we've listed before. You could list 10 different things that are, wow, each one would be a stain on your record if you were the owner of a team. And he's got 10 stains. And this latest thing coming out, we don't know where it's going to go with Terry McDonough or Steve Wilkes is suing them, all of those things. They're handling of all of it. to me, this is a reflection on ownership because if the owner could credibly go to Buda Baker, if you were a really good owner who had the respect of everyone in the locker room,

a guy like Buda Baker who really would do anything to be on the field, really football character, unquestioned football character. If you said who has a, if you put together a list of guys who had the best football character, Buda Baker is going to be on the list. So I'm giving Buda Baker the benefit of the doubt and saying that this is a reflection of the difficulties he's in the relationship that starts at the top. I'm not blaming Moni Austin for it. He just got there.

He's never even, maybe hardly met very much with Buda Baker. So that's just a reflection of that. And we'll see where it goes from here. Well, I totally agree. And once again, you've relayed my thoughts way more articulate than I can. So I appreciate that. And I think we're on the same page, for sure. I always steal your ideas.

No, no, it's not the idea. It's the fact that you do this for a living. And I'm a kid from Idaho that's stumbling along. trying to get my words right. So I appreciate you giving out my thoughts because I couldn't have done it like that. So good work. Well, I think we feel the same way on that one.

And I'm going with Buda Baker all the way. No question. Very respected players. So I don't know if we're out of time. We're out of topics for the week. Otherwise we'd keep going. When's your next game, Randy? We play Sunday in Seattle against the Vegas Vipers,

last regular season game with a playoff berth on the line. So I'm looking forward to getting through this week and playing a little football up in Seattle this weekend. It's great. My youngest son and some buddies are going to go to the game. We were able to go to, I think, the last home game, too, thanks to Randy. That was fun. So best of luck to you with that. And certainly as we started the show, talking about Chris Smith, just, you know, want to send as many positive thoughts on that front, too. And we'll just close the way we normally do by letting everybody know where they can find our work.

Randy, you can find some of his stuff at mueller.com. You can find him on Twitter at Randy Mueller underscore. I'm Mike Sando from The Athletic, and you can find me on Twitter at Sando NFL. Thanks for coming along, and we'll talk to you next week, Randy. We'll be going right into the draft. Love it. We've got some more draft topics to hit on, so I'm looking forward to it. Absolutely.

We'll see you guys then. This was The Athletic Football Show.