The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: The changing of the guard

Episode Date: January 13, 2024

In this week's edition of the Football GM Mike and Randy discuss head coaching changes around the NFL. Their conversation starts off with a look at all the teams looking for a new head coach. From there the guys talk about retirement as Nick Saban retires as head coach at Alabama. Randy shares about his time working with Saban and what the ideal candidate needs to have to replace him. Next, the guys discuss Bill Belichick and the Patriots mutually agreeing to part ways and the Patriots hiring of Jerod Mayo to replace him. Lastly, we wrap things up with the GM notebook and playoff picks.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's football GM podcast. Welcome everybody to the football GM podcast. Mike Sando here along with the GM, Randy Mueller. Randy, you warm there? It's cold here. We got weather. We got weather for these games. It's cold.

What do you got? We got a little weather in Idaho, coach. It's like minus one this morning, but wind chill minus 13. So, yeah. I'm not going to be bolting out of here running around the block to getting some exercise. That's for sure. The balmy 25 here in the Tacoma area. I took my wife to the airport.

She had a trip. And then I came back before the podcast, and I've got a couple try tips in the SUV right now. Oh, wow. Randy, so we can talk about that. Yeah, that comes out. I'm the only guy who's on the deck at 6 in the morning when it's 20 degrees with a fire. My neighbor's probably like, is there a fire going on?

Is it a call for help here? What's wrong with this clown? That's me. Yeah, that's what I got going. Yeah, yeah, we got so much to talk about. You know, one of the things we learned in our lead in here, Mueller, a big WNBA fan? I didn't know that.

How about that? I like all sports, but yeah, the WNBA gets a lot of conversation, and I enjoy it a lot, storm fans for the most part. Yeah, in the family? Yeah. Love it. So it is what it is. Love it.

We just like sports. That's great. Looking at my little cheat sheet to start the week, Randy, we had Vegas, Carolina, the Chargers, and then late Sunday night Atlanta came open, four. We thought Washington would open. That's five. They did. We thought probably New England would. We're up to six. A wild card was Tennessee. We weren't 100% sure, but there were some rumbings there. That's seven. And then in my awkward conversation department, Monday was Seattle. I didn't think that was going to open necessarily, but here we are. That's eight.

One of them already filled potentially in New England. Looks like what Gerard Mayo. But Randy, all of a sudden, the three longest 10th, tenured coaches in the NFL are Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Andy Reid, and then after that, you're getting to the class of 2017 with Kyle Shanahan. We lost a lot of old growth in the forest. Yeah, no kidding. Those trees have fallen and maybe a couple of them pick up somewhere else, but you're right. It's a changing of the guard at the top, but it's kind of a changing at the guard position of philosophies and kind of team building and communicative skills with a younger group and all kinds of stuff, you know, especially when you throw Nick Saban in the mix. There's a lot of age, perspective, different type skills in team building going by the wayside.

And in a way, it's kind of sad, especially when you package all three of those guys we mentioned together as exiting the field. And I think we all agree that probably Bill Belichick ends up somewhere else. But nevertheless, in that 24 to 36-hour span, we lost some icons in the sport. It is hard, though, to be at a place for a really long time. You know, I think that's, I've always noticed that when these coaches are in one place a long time, usually their staffs don't get better. And by the end, what happens is Robert Kraft starts positioning Gerard Mayo to do something,

right? Bill Belichick probably wouldn't do. Or, you know, Seattle wants to make probably some staff changes. And Pete Carroll's like, you know, he's not used to be in pressure. on that sort of a thing. And, you know, those type, when you're there for a long time, it's hard to keep the staff great. And then it's really hard for someone else to tell you to make changes.

And I think that's sort of an undercurrent here. Wouldn't you agree on some of these moves? Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's hard to keep anything long term nowadays in the NFL is four or five years. And it's really not only with coaches. It's that way with GMs. It's that way with front offices. And it surely is that way with staffs like you mentioned.

So, I mean, I always thought that my 17. years in Seattle flew by. Really, that's rare in this day and age to be in one spot for 17 years, no matter your role at all. So, yeah, I give these guys credit for hanging as long as they have. I remember this when Chuck Knox was our coach in Seattle. And he often said this. He said, you know, after about 10 years, the message gets a little stale.

He said, that's kind of what his gauge was for moving on. And if you watch his career, it was kind of like that 10 years. and it was time to change voices, if not message. Yeah. Well, now you can turn over your roster faster probably, right? With three agency and stuff, it feels like that happens, but I think there's still some truth to that. And it really put on my radar, Randy, just looking ahead,

these guys like Mike Tom, when John Harbaugh's had a real rebirth, it looked like it was kind of slowing down a couple years ago, but he's back. He's got it going. And Andy Reid, you would think, is going to stay there a long time with Patrick Mahomes. But it just made me think, right? these things aren't forever. And now these are the longest tenured guys.

So we'll see how much longer they keep it going in their places. It just occurred to me a little bit more than it would have. Yeah, the dynamics are always changing. Like you said, yeah, the roster changes. But when the front office changes, the processes change on how you identify acquire players. Now there's a whole other element that those guys started out in the league with no salary cap per se. And that has been managed now pretty much separately from all. football operations, which is crazy.

I guess of these guys that were fired, you mentioned Bill Belichick probably gets on somewhere. We'll see what happens with Pete Carroll. I think he's got a lot of energy. I don't know where that would lead. A couple other names, though, here, Jim Harbaugh still sort of out there. What do you make of that? Obviously, the process has slowed down, you know. It has, and the league has slowed it down to where you have to interview now a lot of boxes,

and they all have to be checked, and they all. all have to be legitimate, all the way from, I mean, hey, you and I saw the directives that the league is put out nowadays, and it's, you almost have to hire a lawyer to follow all the directives, and it comes with, you know, job descriptions and interview questions, and everything is now controlled at the league level. So it definitely has pumped the brakes on some of these hirings. I did think it was interesting that after Monday night and into Tuesday morning when the national championship game ended, everybody had Jim Harbaugh on their front burner, right? where's he going to end up? How long is this going to take? And most of the time, these college

coaches don't want these things to linger. Well, as we sit here now five, six days later, he still doesn't have clarity with where he's going to be. That, to me, is a problem for Michigan as well. When it comes to recruiting and everything else, there's just a longer period of limbo affects colleges more than it does the pros. If you're an NFL team now and you have a guy that you think you want to hire, right? Well, you can't really interview in person people from a different team until January 22nd after the divisional rounds. So you can't just go up to the altar with your preferred candidate right now and then think,

hey, we'll just check these boxes later. I wonder if guys like Mike Vrable, guys like Jim Harbaugh, who are established coaches that I think normally would be, if there was no regulations, no rules, I think might be scooped up quick. I wonder if they sort of have some sort of handshake agreements or maybe not that formal, but hey, there's an understanding that, look, when your day will come here, we'll get you into the mix, but are we not tipping hands? Are people not worried about these guys moving quickly?

Because it seems like, you know, those would be normally pretty hot candidates. I think in some instances, these NFL franchises have to become deal makers. And that's what I'm referring to is they have to be able to make deals like we all used to do years ago with players or agents or whatever sometimes where you do have something under the table or at least an understanding, verbal commitments, those kind of things to really to get where you need to get. Because the league has its priorities, but these teams still operate independent and they still have to do what's right for them. Now, I get the restrictions and all of the directives from the league that you have to follow. I get it and I'm all for it. You have to do that. But at some point, it can bog down your own team to the point where it's not good for us. It may be good for everybody else, but the dilemma inside these NFL buildings is we still got to do what's right for us. So it's a little bit of a push and

pull. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things I like about having all of these regulations and rules is it creates a little bit more of an accountable process. So the league is now sort of tabulating and writing down and oh your reasoning on this was what oh yeah right because these things have always been a mystery before and you always questioned the legitimacy of these interview processes the raiders suddenly hired john gruden and they're like wait a minute they knew they were going to do that they didn't do a process these guys they brought it in to satisfy the runy rule or whatever that wasn't even real and now when you slow it down um you know because the teams weren't going to slow it down on their own so this slows it down mandatory i think i kind of like it i i think i think it's

probably good for the process. It probably is. Like I said, it's good for the league. Individual teams will push back a little bit because they'll see it as like a government oversight that doesn't make sense. Like in the real world. They don't want to do it. We don't want our government to control every little move we make.

And that's really what the league office has become in this. But they've done it to protect the teams from themselves for the most part and from some of the other issues that have come up for sham type interviews. like you mentioned. So I think you're right. It's probably good for the sport. It's good for the league as a whole. It makes it tough sometimes to do right for your own team if you're one of those decision makers. Yeah, and I want to get it. We're going to get into that in a minute because I think the Patriots process here bypassing that with Throod Mayo is really interesting. And we're going to get to that. We're going to get to a lot of these openings, Pete Carroll, all this stuff. But

hey, I wanted to first get, you wrote a column today a little bit of reflecting on your time with Nick Saban. hiring. I guess in retrospect, Randy, not overly shocking, just the way that the way that his job has changed just through the nature of NIL and the portal and all of that. It's different now and probably in ways that, you know, as he admitted, you're a little bit older. Right. You know, not the best, but I thought your column was great on him. You were with Nick Saban in Miami. He was hired as the head coach. and then he brought you in as a general manager. Let's appreciate Nick Saban a little bit. Let's hit on, you know, we can use your column as a little bit of a springboard there,

but he's just somebody who's had such great success. Everyone kind of admires what he's done, and not everyone has worked with him in the office every day. So take it away. Well, it was fun to write to call him. It was a run back of memory lane for me with a lot of things that I had forgotten about, to be honest with you, until you sit down in detail some of your experiences. You take a lot for granted, and you're right.

Nick hired me in Miami. We didn't know each other before that. I was the GM of the Saints, and he was the head coach at LSU, so we obviously knew of each other, but we didn't have a prior experience. But I had, gosh, almost 20 years, a little over in my pocket before I went to work for Nick. So I had a pretty good base of NFL knowledge and a fair amount of success in building my own team. So yeah, it was both educational. It was beneficial.

And I'll say this, and this is the best way I can sum it up because all my buddies, everybody asked me what it was like. He made me so much better at my job, Mike, that it even surprised me with the system that we both kind of tweaked and came up with. but he held me to a different level of accountability. He held me to a different level of thoroughness of anything that I thought I had a pretty good handle on before. And so it was awesome. He pushed me. And I always tell our coaches wherever I've been since then, if you have an open mind about the way you've done things forever and are willing to listen to outside sources. Now, Nick didn't give me much choice some days.

You had to listen. But I appreciate that. And I understand it. but if you'll have an open mind to accept some coaching, guess what? You can get really good at your job and you can get better at your job, whether you're a player, a coach, a front office guy. And that's what Nick did for me.

He made me way better. So regardless of anything that ever gets said about Nick, he treated me awesome and I think he treated most of our people with respect in that if you did your job and if you were consistently doing it every day, you had no issues at all and he was fine to work with. Yeah. So how did your, obviously you've been scouting for a long time

and had been successful enough to get hired as a general manager twice now, at that point, when you go to, or really a third time, if you count your de facto GM status in Seattle, how did your processes or approach to scouting change because of him? What did you learn? Well, for one thing, you couldn't answer a question for Nick with just a simple, yes, we should do this or yes, I like that guy, everything had to be thorough. So he took me to a different level of thoroughness where we had to. had we had information on every player, every system, every coach he had played for, all beyond the

end degree. Because you could get, and I've heard people when asked about Belichick say that he might ask you any question any time in the office just passing through. That's the way Nick was too, only it was usually in his office with him on the other side. So everything you did, every move you made had to make sense. So the thoroughness really came really out of just his demanding. that you really know your stuff. The biggest thing was, and I won't bore us with scouting talk on the pod. No, this is learning. This is great learning, though.

It's not boring. I want the nitty gritty here. He had a way, and it's not rocket science, but he had a way of setting job descriptions for each an individual position for exactly what we wanted or what he wanted to be best suited to input into his scheme. So we knew exactly one, two, three, four what the things were that he wanted out of a player if he was going to work for him. And two, it was a priority of what was most important. So that level of detail was looked for by every one of our people in scouting. If they didn't have one and two, they were probably fatally flawed because they had three and four, but it wasn't as important as one and two. So if that makes any sense, we really had a detailed job description beyond anything I'd ever.

had or been around. So everybody in the building knew exactly what you were looking for, and we all took the time to sit down and be able to identify it on film. That's another thing that gets forgotten in the NFL is that everybody can look at a film and see what they want to see and they all see everything the same. Not true. You had to see it exactly and be able to identify it exactly like the job criteria was asking. And so that was way more in depth than anything I'd ever been around. So those kind of scouting lessons for me, even after 20 years in the league, were awesome because I felt like when you have everybody in the building knowing what to look for and identifying the exact same traits, it really helped us build a consensus fast to

settle on what players were best for us. So give me a, let's do one quick positional thing. Nick Saban, you know, the the godfather of defensive back play, right, in coaching, he's looking for a, he's looking for a safety. What's, what's it different? What's Nick Saban? What's your assignment? What's the lens you're looking at that through if you're working for him? I would say this.

If he can't process information and make adjustments, he's fatally flawed to play in Nick's system. And forget about the athletic part. He has to be able to identify, process, and make adjustments mentally because that's your quarterback. The other things are, he doesn't necessarily have to have a guy that's the fast. But if you have great reactions and first step quickness, you can play in that system as opposed to a real fast track guy who can cover ground all over the place. Now, the great ones have all that.

But you have to prioritize them in the way that we're going to use them in that scheme. And we did that at every position. A noseguard, for example, the number one thing. And he built his defenses and still does all around that interior line play. The noseguard was where he built it off of because that's the middle of the defense. If you can't hold a point of attack, we got no. chance. So he wanted big, strong, hold the point, nose guards, and then he built his inside linebackers around that, the defensive ends around that, and then built it from the inside out. So

that one criteria, he could give up athleticism. He might give up speed and quickness, but if you can't hold a point of attack, you're fatally flawed in that system. So all these kinds of nuances, but we all were looking for the same thing and could define exactly what we wanted, better than any place I'd ever been in really in my 35 years in the league. And he also convinced you, or at least through sources close to you, to not quit, is that true? Well, he was hard on people, and he knew that. He admitted that to me before I even took the job. He said, Randy, I'm not for everybody. And I understood it. But I also thought, you know, I've seen it everything. What could be, you know, any different. But he held you accountable, and sometimes that came with a verbal

barrage of, hey, you need to do this or you need to do that. But he was aware of that. But he was aware of that and that was the best thing about it. He came in my office one time in Miami looking for me and I was somewhere else in the building but my daughter who was I think ninth grade maybe 10th grade at the time was doing her homework on a little table in my office waiting for me to come back and he started chatting with her and he said hey by the way don't let your dad quit and so later she tells me the story hey Nick came in he said this he said she said are we quitting are we going somewhere I said I laughed they said no no we're not quitting we're not going anywhere and it made smile and it made me work harder, to be honest with you. But the fact that he was very aware of all that

stuff made me work harder and made me appreciate that he knew what he was putting people through. So there's a very human side to Nick that people don't understand. Yeah. Well, and when there's a method to being hard on somebody and when it makes sense, it's acceptable. I think no one wants to be yelled at by someone who you can't figure out where they're coming from, right? There's no point in that. Yeah. Or that wouldn't do the same themselves. I hear this about Belichick as well. Yeah. These two guys, watched every tape. I've never seen a person like Nick, a coach, jump into personnel like he does.

He was there shoulder to shoulder watching every tape on every flight we took, everywhere we went, interviewed every player himself. He somehow, he found more energy and more passion and desire to do the personnel stuff than any other coach had ever been with. So I give him credit, and he was involved in it,

but it meant something to me to hear something from him because I knew he knew what he was talking about. Yeah, absolutely. You can accept it. I think that's what players in a locker room care about too. That's your whole credibility as a coach.

And if you've done all the work and you actually know the truth and you're not just, you know, kind of coasting by or kind of full of it on something, you're going to, your message is going to resonate on other stuff too that are really, really important. People might think as well that that happens everywhere in the NFL, but it doesn't.

And in part of the piece I mentioned going from Miami to San Diego at the time, the chargers. That was not put in there to disparage the chargers at all. They won games as well, but that environment and that style was just a little different. So my point is, one day I'm doing this with Nick, the next day I'm doing things totally different. So it was a shock to my system as well. But again, I'm not saying, hey, you can't win the way another team does it. I'm just saying not everybody holds everybody to the level of accountability that Nick does. And it worked Obviously, he works at Alabama and he uses the same system there.

And I think they did a better job of identifying players to fit his systems than anyplace else. Everybody always says that about college colleges is, well, you got to recruit. And I agree, you do have to recruit, but I always add this, you got to recruit the right guys. And I knew Nick was recruiting the right guys because they were the guys that fit into his systems. Yeah. So that does transition nicely into the Belichick situation because I think some of those things you were saying about scouting and Sabins did sound a lot like Belichick too. There's a reason they're best buddies.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely great, great coaches, attention to detail, do the work, know exactly what they're talking about, and gives them tremendous credibility with the team. And everybody else and the results are what they are on the field off of that. So Belichick, though, is out after 24 years. And within 24 years, yeah, and within 24 hours of that announcement, Adam Schaefter reports, And sorry, I may be understood too. I just saw it from Adam that Gerard Mayo is the next coach of the Patriots.

You know, and I kind of, we didn't make a big deal of it, but, you know, about a year ago, the Patriots put out a pressure release kind of saying that, hey, Mayo signed for it a long term. And it implied that he, you know, might be the next head coach. And I just, you know, part of the awkwardness, I think at the end, of the craft and Belichick relationship, to me, this reflects it or causes it or fuels it. It reminds me of when I was covering the Seahawks about 15 years ago and Mike Holmgren's career was winding down. They had Jim Mora, the younger Jim Mora, on the staff.

And they decided to name him, the coach and waiting. And it sounds like, hey, this is an organization that really is ahead of things. But the reality of that is, I bet you Mike Holmgren didn't love that arrangement, you know, sort of having your guy when you're trying to command the team having the next guy there already. I can't imagine that Belichick would have loved that. Go ahead. Well, no, I agree with you 100%. I think those are the parts that the people part, the people skills parts sometimes don't get enough attention.

And I think you're right. It's a people-oriented business. And he probably had no idea when he was going to leave, Bill, but it, may have chipped away a little bit in one, the confidence level that he thought others had in him to already have somebody in place to replace him. And it could have, in his mind, chipped away a little bit of his authority within the building. Yeah. One of the things that came to mind here for me is that Robert Kraft has never really conducted a head coaching search under the rules that govern those searches. I mean, the last time he hired a coach was 25, 24 years ago.

And so. And he just gave a draft pick to get him, right? Yeah. Exactly. And there's all these rules now. So Belichick was hired before the Rooney Rule even existed. And so now there's all these rules and regulations requirements. And when I was talking to some people in the league during the season and speculating, you know, as we do on, hey, what would happen? What's Kraft thinking? One of the points that was made to me was Robert Kraft doesn't want to go through all of that. And you and I, I think, talked yesterday and you were mentioning to me, you know, hey, you know, Kraft has had some skepticism with the league on some of this stuff.

And so that all kind of plays together to me that, you know what, he's going to bypass this system. He's going to appoint his guy. I can see that, hey, at best case scenario, Randy, this is great foresight. We know who we are as an organization. We know what we want. He's right here. Don't overthink it. But the same time, Randy, after 24 years, you could look at any candidate in the world.

You could talk to a million people about processes that you don't really know anything about firsthand, because you haven't had these conversations with anybody other than, you know, other owners at league meetings or privately. You're declaring that Gerard Mayo is better for us than anyone could be, possibly. Is this a missed opportunity? Nothing against Gerard Mayo. No, I agree. He may be the next Belichick, but process-wise, I don't think they were going to lose Gerard Mayo in the first week of this thing to someone else. They could hire, they could have him anyway.

Are they missing something by not having a process? Wouldn't you want to have one? Well, I would definitely use the opportunity to the greatest as far as the franchise goes. And I do think a lot of these searches, whether it's for GMs or head coaches, can be deemed an information gathering step. And you're right. I think they could have used it. I don't know the details of the agreement in that if they don't initially make him the coach and they do interview others, does that then put them under a different set of guidelines to have to follow? I do think this.

It's a testament to the Patriot's stability for being where they're at for as long as they have because they've had a lot of coaches come and go. And at least they've been able to judge the ones that have gone elsewhere and failed. So there must have been something about Gerard Mayo that the Kraft family sees and identified early on that says he's different. He's definitely different. Now, when they go on record with this in Mayo's contract last year, whenever they did it, it clearly plans the succession steps for them. And so they've named him a year ago,

but at the same time, it's, oh, what's the word I'm looking for? It is a different approach than anybody's ever taken. And you're right. We'll see if it works out. I do think this, it puts as utmost importance, something on the table different for hiring or at least filling the GM role. I've heard they're going to interview two or three or four in terms. candidates for that role. So if that's the case, they will have lost another opportunity to gain outside knowledge on processes, ways to acquire talent, ways to do things totally different than they're aware of. So I think it is important for them now to bring in a fresher face to help with the front office side of it and to not keep going down that same track because

that track has failed the last five, six years especially, as far as building this right, roster. Does this signal, though, that there's not going to be really a big organizational overhaul, right? I mean, Gerard Mayo may have his own ideas, but it's probably going to be somewhat like the Belichick, right? It could be that process. Now, I know a friend of yours, and I really trust what he says. Mike Reese from ESPN reported that he thinks, yes, they are going to name or hire a GM. My point is, if it's somebody from within, it's going to be status quo, and the team building part of this is still going to be in question. I think that would be the time to bring in a little different measure, a little different set of eyes to evaluate one what we have and evaluate the processes that we have from an independent eye, not one with an agenda under any circumstance, and use that person as well to help a young inexperienced Gerard Mayo who's now, I believe, the youngest coach in the NFL, right? I don't know that off the top of my head. I think I read that.

And I can't believe everything you read, but 38 years old is, I think, young. than even Sean McVeigh, right? Yeah. Hey, this is in Robert Kraft's 30 years of ownership. He inherits Bill Parcells. He hires Pete Carroll. Yeah. And he hires Bill Belichick.

I mean, those are three heavyweights, you know, in football. So big shoes to fill. I do think it helps Gerard Mayo that the team just hasn't been good the last few years. It's not like he's going to be measured against 14 and 2. And they just won the Super Bowl. It probably is going to get a little better. I would think. for this team. But it's notable to me that they're doing this when they presumably could have

gotten Mike Frable. And that's where the process here takes away the opportunity to explore that. Maybe they would, if they did that now, it might be, you know, really breaking, you know, breaking, not a promise, but, you know, breaking some trust with Mayo. They've been, you know, developing him, grooming him, whatever, for this role. But things change quickly. And now, if they didn't, hadn't done that and they could look at rabble wouldn't that be a great fit so it does it does set off in my mind a little bit of a conspiracy theory in that is robert craft kind of given the finger to the league and saying here's your processes here's your directives i don't need any of that we've followed the rules along the way and here's what we're doing uh but you're right the variable aspect of it

brable may pay the price for for really uh something that he has nothing to do with in that the bigger picture may indeed be the patriots thumbing their nose at the league instead of hiring the best coach. But again, I think Gerard Mayo, I don't know the man. I've heard a lot of great things about him. Yeah, you could be great. So I would not say this is not the route to go ever. I just don't have enough information.

Yeah, absolutely. Hey, before we move on to the next topic here, we'll talk a little bit about the Seahawks situation, moving on, getting rid of. That sounds like we're getting rid of an old TV or something. We're moving on from Pete Carroll. But I mentioned your column on Sabin. I wrote about Bill Belichick in relation to Don Chula today.

Kids out there, Google Don Chula. He's more than just the guy who is with the 72 and defeated dolphins. And he's more than just the guy that Belichick is closing in on to pass for career wins. It's kind of been a given here in recent years that Bill Belichick, greatest coach ever, six Super Bowl's hard to argue that. Curious, what you think? Should we just forget about Don Chula or others? Or, you know, how do you, do we just go by the Super Bowls?

You know, what do you think makes the best coach? Let me just say this, and I'm not just yanking your chain. I thought it was an awesome column. Even for someone that's been around with a little bit of history of the league like myself, I learned stuff in there that I wasn't aware of, or at least I was reminded of it, for sure. I think Super Bowls is a way to measure people's progress. everybody said, oh, that's the ultimate measuring stick. I think you brought the light a whole bunch of other ways to measure the success.

And not to reign on Belichick's parade at all, but I think we forget how good Don Shula was. And the parts of it that really got me to think it through were the two teams that he coached for, separate teams, four different quarterbacks and the overall winning percentage, never having a bad year. And then the 30 years after that of the struggles that Miami has had, all of the above probably led me to believe is, why did we change? Why did that rain come to an end? So there were a lot of points that you made in there that make me think that Belichick probably has an equal at least in Don Chula, who, by the way, is still the all-time leading victories coach in the NFL. One of the things I did go back and read a little bit about Don Chula at the end of Don Chula there. And I think it's a little bit similar to some of these ones now where there were complaints at the time that he was keeping the same staff, all his guys, right, at the end.

And, you know, and that was a little bit of the frustration in Don Chula. No one's going to tell Don Shula to change his staff. So he resigned. But that's just such a common thing at the end that happens to these guys. If I were, you know, if I could have apply hindsight to foresight and if I were a top executive with a team and I had a coach. like Pete Carroll or Don Chula or Bill Belichick who've, you know, won a lot. They have a lot of power. But are also guys who are super honest, like they're direct and honest.

Don Chula, you could deal in complete honesty. I would be wanting to have those tough conversations that you always talk about, not at year 14 or in Chula's case, year 26, along the way, hey, let's make sure we're applying the same standard and holding ourselves to the same level of accountability all through our staff. We're not going to tolerate if the performance isn't there. You can't, Don Shula, just keep having bad defenses with Dan Marino because we're missing some championship windows here, right? So, or that type of thing is, seems hard to get ahead of. I think sometimes loyalty is confused with accountability. And I've been around staffs where

they go way out of their way and maybe it's the head coach to protect every coach on his staff. I can tell you for a fact, Nick was not like that. I don't think Belichick was necessarily like that. You rated and viewed everybody every year on the job they did so they were always having to prove themselves. I don't think accountability and having awkward questions should be confused with being loyal at all. Two different things. And sometimes they get drug down the same trail because if you question something, you're considered to be disloyal. I don't believe that at all. I think questions spawn conversation, which might bring up things we hadn't thought about. So I'm always for that. And whether that's being disloyal or not, I don't even think it's debatable. But some view that

is if you don't get in the boat no matter what the direction and you just follow everything that's happening in front of you, that's the way you should be. And that makes you a good employee. I've never subscribed to that. So I don't know. Maybe some do. Yeah, to me, there's no doubt Belichick's staff, you know, wasn't the same at the end. And in the end, it becomes hard to train guys to do them exactly how you want. So you end up doing more or you bring back guys, put them in weird roles like Belichick's done. Really tough. All right, I'll give you my quick bullet points on Don Shula here.

Yeah, it does have the most win. So 33 seasons, two losing records. That's amazing to me. So you never had the dip. Belichick, 29 seasons, eight losing records. When you count Cleveland, you count. basically he had three losing records his final four years. John Shula had two and 33.

So Shula had the higher win rate, never had a downturn. I always feel like, Randy, if you're in the league long enough, you'll eventually be 500. It'll just catch up to you. Even if you're bad, you'll come up to the middle, and if you're good, you'll eventually get close to it. Not Shula, never a point ever that he wasn't winning. His final four years that people got a little fed up with because they weren't going to the Super Bowl, He won 61% of his games. That's the same as Bill Walsh's entire career win rate, the same as McVeigh.

That's the sunset at the end when people are like, Don, Shulah, my gosh, he's been here forever. That's how much he was still winning. And isn't the 60% number? Isn't that the Hall of Fame number that everybody looks at? Oh, if he's won over 60%, he's in the Hall of Fame? That was his worst time. But all of these, yeah, yeah, all of these other guys, Belichick, Chuck Knoll, to some extent, Carol, they dip at the end. they do and not Shula

so you know we know the nine Super Bowls for Belichick six wins all with Brady Shulah six Super Bowls only two wins but four quarterbacks do you think a lot of people know who David Woodley is you know he was one of the starting quarterbacks in the Super Bowl I think Shulah was 30 and 14 with him I believe in the lineup in the early 1980s the one knock I think on Chula that is legitimate is hey only one Super Bowl with Dan Marino but this is one of the really fascinating things. We always hear about, hey, Belichick feasted on the easy AFC East. At the end of Shula's career, the great Bills teams were on the rise. Jim Kelly,

Bruce Smith, those guys. Four Super Bowls in a little for them, right? Yeah. And so Shulah was still good, but he lost in the playoffs three times to the bills, having them. Belichick takes over the Patriots. Six weeks later, Dan Marino retires. The Bills, teams are in the tank by then. And oh, by the way, Peyton Manning's Colts were in the division. And they re-aligned them out of there in 2002. So there's

a lot of different history. And we doesn't take anything away. It's just this is the type of context where you go, oh, yeah, if Peyton Manning was in the AFC East the whole time, you may not get out of there. Yeah. As the champion, you may have some tougher situations to be on the road

or whatever. It doesn't take away, but it's really interesting context. that, you know, I think you take all these things into account. We don't have to declare one person the greatest. I don't think you have to. Nor do we have to abide by the recency biased either, though. So I think that's why the column is so good. Yeah, I think.

I ended saying, hey, Belichick may be the greatest. I agree. If you want to point to the six Super Bowls, I'm not going to stand there and die in a Hill saying he's not. But I do think there's a conversation. And the more we delve into these conversations, the more we learn about what made all of these coaches so great. and that's what I enjoy about this type of research and just figuring it out.

Yeah, you're making a little bit of a case, but you're really just learning and open to learning. So fun stuff. I hope people enjoyed that. Pete Carroll, let's shift gears there, Randy. What did you make of that? I wasn't surprised. I know that's going to sound kind of arrogant for me to say that, but I just saw this team the last two, three years kind of going from year to year. I just don't think you can build a team in this day and age without a vision beyond this year,

taking one year at a time. And I thought the roster build that John Schneider kind of had in his lap was one that, okay, this year, okay, this year, okay this year. That happened the last three years. And I know they made the playoffs in there, and they're always around 500. I get it. But that's not everybody's goal either. And I think you're right. There was some staff changes that probably needed to be made that at Pete's stage, he really wasn't.

made a bunch of changes already the prior couple years. He's been through coordinators left and right on both sides of the ball. So that wasn't going to fix it. So maybe there was a little bit of loss of faith and confidence in that he could hire the right guys. But I just think overall this team needed a vision that carried out further than the 72-year-old head coach could really, you know, fathom. And so I think, yeah, I'm not surprised by it. I think it's probably right for everybody. Doesn't take away from Pete's career.

Pete's the greatest coach in the history of the Seahawks. We can mark it down now and there should be a statue somewhere for him. It is what it is. But just like with Nick, just like with some of these other coaches, there's always a time. And I think Nick even said this in his remarks on ESPN yesterday. He said, I just felt like the year-to-year questions I was answering kind of inhibited our process to move forward with a longer vision. And that's probably what the powers it be in Seattle saw, in my opinion. Yeah.

And you know what's really interesting about Seattle is for all these years, you know, you were there when Paul Allen bought the team. And you know what that's like to work for him. And we know who he is or who he was. He passed away in 2018. His sister has been running the team with an understanding that eventually she'll sell it per Paul Allen's wishes, which are that all of his vast billion dollars, many billion dollar, state, for lack of a better word, will be liquidated to support causes dear to him.

Now, that doesn't mean the CX are going to be sold next year or in five years or in 10. This could all take a very long time. But she has always been somebody in recent years who people ask me, even around the league, hey, what do you know about Jody Allen? And what's interesting here is that in two years now, they've made decisions, huge ones, on Russell Wilson, you know, the best quarterback in franchise history. and Pete Carroll, the best coach in franchise history, to move on from them. And so we don't really know for sure how all of that came to be, how much it was her driving

it, is who she's listening to, all those types of things. But those are two pretty big moves here. Do you get a feel off of that for her, or are you still not really sure? Oh, no, I get a direct feel off of that, and it's a good one. It tells me that Jody and whether it's Chuck Arnold, the press. president of the team or John Schneider or Burke cold, her right-hand person with regard to the sports franchises, they are not afraid to ask awkward questions. They are not afraid to communicate thoughts and ideas that maybe don't go with the rank and file and the decision they've made.

So I think it's accountability. I think it's all the above that you see from Jody and that's, you know, just since she took over. Jody was always around. Even when Paul owned a team, even when I was in charge and Paul owned the team, Jody was always around. So, She was a very independent thinker, I think, and has continued that. I don't see this team selling anytime soon, and I know that the legalese of the estate planners and all that have to figure in, but I think she's done an admirable job, and I would not, if I was a Seahawk employee, want her to sell. I know that sometimes that group can make life tough on the Seahawks people in their building,

but I haven't seen anything that is held them back or that's made you think, hey, the Seahawks don't have all the tools to win. And again, like I mentioned on the Nick stuff we talked about earlier, I'm all for accountability. If it makes us all better at our job, even all the better. But not rash accountability. They didn't just immediately trade Russell Wilson when there was a sign of thing. They didn't just can Pete Carroll two years ago.

They gave him chances. They gave Pete another year, another year, okay. All right. And then guess what? He went nine and eight. So you could have status quoted. Oh, it's just hard to do. You know, we had a winning record.

We're close. But you actually made some moves here. So I didn't realize that you, I know you had been around Paul. I didn't know that Jody was around that much. Well, she was around game day a lot, not necessarily around the building, but neither was Paul. But she was always there for all the home games and other people that Paul was closely associated with, including Bill Gates. They were always in the owner's suite for games. And needed to say the kid from the logging town in Idaho didn't really fit in.

It was a great experience for me. And yeah, I got to know all those people in a good way. And I think you probably should stop calling Bill for just regular tech support. Would I have email questions? You don't think I should reach out anymore? No, I wouldn't. I mean, I actually would. If I could get a hold of Bill Gatesford, I'd say, hey, Bill, what's going on?

Microsoft Word is not updating. It just makes something up, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, okay, so I think we've got that on Pete Carroll. Hey, Vrable being out. Now, this is a different situation to me where I think it reflects questionably on the owner. What do you think? Well, I don't know what their plan is. And that doesn't mean it's not there. It's just that I haven't been able to connect enough dots to know exactly what has transpired. I know this. They fired a GM a year ago. They hired a new one. Now they fire the coach. there seems to be a little bit of discourse within. So I don't know if this owner is one that has an ear out to one person, a favorite son, a time of need. I don't know.

I don't know the mechanics of it. I know this, that the defense was good and that I think Vrable is a really good coach and a manager of the game. But I think they really lack talent, especially on the offensive side. I was struck by one thing that she said is aimed. Adam Strunk, is her, is, am I getting the name right? She said in the release is that we finally have found a quarterback and blah, blah, blah, and it just made me say, whoa, wait a second. So that tells me where the information is coming. Maybe the GM Rand Carthon thinks they have found a quarterback. God bless them if he thinks they have. I would have doubts about that. I know others that

would as well. So I don't, that told me, tells me where, and and it's obvious by her firing Vrable and keeping Rand that that's her right hand person as it should be. The GM is at her side. But that tells me that there are some evaluation issues, some team building issues that may not have a consensus. And my guess is that Rabel kind of felt more like me and that these aren't the answers. And maybe this is not going to get any better. So I don't know.

Long-winded, you tell me. There's a great story, though, on The Athletic by Diana Rossini and Joe Rexford. I think I sent that over to you with a lot of details here and some hurt feelings and this and that. I just, you know, we were trying to read the tea leaves. when she fired John Robinson, the GM, you know, a year ago. And I thought, hey, look, they'd had a lot of whiffs in the draft. And so, you know, it could have just been something like that.

But you also wondered, okay, was this Rable sort of like, you know, a power play type thing? Well, we got our answer now. It wasn't. It was, it was her. And so you've gone from having, you know, you've gone from having Mike Rable and John Robinson, and who, again, we're not saying those were great drafts or we loved all. everything they were doing, to having Rancarthon and whatever else. And if we get a little sideways with the owner or we're not just completely,

I guess, collaborative or communicative, that's it. We're out of there. We'll see. Now, that being said, they are 6 and 18 or whatever the last 24, but I don't think that's because of Rable. I don't think a change of coach is going to fix that. They got to get players. I agree with you.

I don't think the coach. They can keep changing coaches, but it's not going to matter unless the roster gets better. And that's a team really void of talent right now. Defense held their own, tried to do things the way Vrable did it. I actually think Vrable is of the makeup and setup of a Sabin, of a Belichick, that if he is deemed to get another job and get hooked up with the right talent evaluator on the front office side, could really make a long run somewhere in his next stop, because I do think we're always all better the second time around in the jobs. And I think he will be a more cognizant communicator. And

if he has a really sounding point that he's respectful of, I think that's the big thing with Mike is the other side of the building, he has to have respect for them. And he's got to use them in that way. And I don't know that he ever had that with Rand. I think he may have had it with J. Rob a little bit, but he ain't faking it. No. He's not political at all. You're going to know where you stand. But I'll be honest with you. I like that. So maybe it's... I do.

I think... And the other thing, just big picture, when have the Titans had really good ownership? Can you name a time? Going back to earlier days. No. No.

I think that is a real thing. And when Rabel went back and visited the Patriots during the year and gushed about, hey, it's not like this organization's special. It ain't like that everywhere. And, you know, as our piece in the athletic, the Diannersenian and Joe Rex

Road, that didn't sit too well with the owner. Well, guess what? It's probably true. So sometimes the truth hurts. And if you could get Vrable into one of these good organizations, we were just talking about Seattle. There's some other ones out there that could be looking. I think it could be a really great combination. And his ability to just connect with the players, too.

You know, it just seems visceral real. I would like it a lot. I always said this, and I said this mainly about Jim Haslett, and we were together for a few years in New Orleans, players are different because they know, and I always said, you can't bullshit a bullshitter. And so players know that he knows. They know because he was one of them. So there's no ambiguity about it. He can call out bullshitters and they get it. They smile and they laugh, but they know you know. It's just a, that's one thing about a next player that is not afraid to be vocal. Yeah, love it. So we're going to hit the GM notebook. We did have a question.

question left over from last week, one of our listeners, Ryan, asked, hey, and maybe we'll get some more, you know, perspective on this in the games coming up this weekend, which we're going to talk about also. But his question was, hey, what do the Browns do with Joe Flacco in 2024? Obviously, Randy, they're committed to Deshaun Watson financially, and they're not going to move on from him. But would you think twice about bringing him back? I don't see another team signing him to do anything, do you? Right. No, I think you definitely want him on your team. The only thing that I would qualify is pending his relationship with Deshawn Watson. That's the big one.

As long as there's no issues there, I think it's a no-brainer. And how that relationship has evolved over the last couple of months is important, I think he'd be an awesome insurance policy for the Browns to, let's face it, to have an answer if something like this happened again next year. And for me, it's just about that relationship. They like DTR, the third quarterback, the real. rookie from this year. So I think, yeah, Dorian Thompson, Robinson. But yeah, so that room would be a strength for me. And I agree with you. I don't think there's going to be a giant market for Joe,

although he has played well enough. And if they win the game this weekend, there may be a little market for him somewhere. But I don't know that Joe's at the point now where he wants to pick up and go do it again either. You know, this guy was on the couch for how many months and nobody called him. So to pick up and go to another team now, I think he might just say, hey, and they're going to pay him. They're going to pay him, I would think, in Cleveland. They're going to find a way to pay him on a basis that if he does this again, he's going to make big money. So that'd just be my feeling. They don't have enough money in the quarterback spot as it is. I think they need to put a little more in there, wink, wink. Yeah, I hear you. You know, for guys like that, though, I think for any

quarterback, really, but especially for guys like that, where you're at is what matters. And so for some of these guys, we saw it with Gino Smith last year. You know, it's like, hey, could you Gino Smith have gone and gotten $5 more somewhere else? I don't know, but why would you do that? You're in a spot where the coach appreciates you. You know the offense. Baker Mayfield now in Tampa Bay, Randy. Oh, could he springboard this and get more?

Yeah, but he might flop on his face somewhere. He's in a situation if they keep the offensive coordinator. You got the weapons. He's got a chance to have a similar type of a season. I feel like for Joe Flacco, for who, for what? Why do you need to be somewhere else? This is a place that's embraced you. It's a great football town.

You've had some success. Sign up for more of that. Makes a lot of sense, especially at his age, 39 years old. I just can't see him having a whole bunch of more boxes that he wants to go elsewhere to check. I just think this is a good spot for him. And like you say, it is about the people, especially the older we all get. It's more about the people than the money or anything else. So it makes total sense to me.

All right. Let's hit the GM notebook. A couple of things that I had that, and we hit on them initially, one is the notion that was out there in New England of Robert Kraft splitting the job with Belichick as head coach and GM. And my feelings on that, having been involved in a similar situation in Seattle years ago when Mike Holmgren was asked to do the same thing, I think the splitting of that kind of job creates hard feelings and uneasiness. And Robert Kraft said exactly that in his second press conference on on Thursday when asked, did you guys think about this? He just said, I think it puts everybody in a

bad spot. I think there's a chance that people choose upsides, and I'm paraphrasing, but he just didn't like the setup of that. When this opportunity was there for me to come back to Seattle years ago, I thought the same thing. This is not something that I want to do where people actually could choose upsides, where it's your pick, but my pick and I'm going to be forced to use this guy. It was just a bad set of dynamics. And I just didn't think going forward it made sense. A lot of people said, this is the way to do it. You can keep Belichick. You can divvy up the GM jobs. I don't know what you think, Mike, but I don't think that works. And that's why I was skeptical of that being a solution from the get-go. Yeah. Well, it's widen our view. If Belichick's already somewhat compromised by the fact that they've

got Gerard Mayo sitting there ready to go to work, right? And now you're like, hey, let's just take away that GM title too, pretty much without having a really good team, you know, it becomes hard. And I think Belichick, I already sort of in my mind, question a little bit where he was at on the Mac Jones thing. I just always have when they drafted him, because partly because of how he treated him, you know, but also when they, in that draft, they, you know, had, he was going around it on the video, making sure there was consensus with everybody in a way that was just interesting to me. And I'm bringing that up because for so long there was no question at all about what they

did in New England. And if you, and you start introducing the questions, hey, did Kraft kind of want this? Did, did Mayo? What's this? We're going to have a GM. I don't think you can go down that road the second time. Now, when they did it with Mike Holmgren, They brought in Tim Ruskel as a GM.

And actually, Rusco, drafted a couple guys. Loafin de Tupu was one of them, a good linebacker. And they went to the Super Bowl. But there was a lot of bad undercurrent there almost the whole time. And it blew up eventually. And Tim didn't have 20 years in the same building of history like I would have had, right? Going back into a position. Yeah, which would have complicated years too.

Way much, yeah. But it could have smooth. You know, that also, there were also negatives for him for that too coming in from an outside thing and having nothing, you know. And Mike Holmgren's such a big towering figure and powerful personality. That's what Bill is. You're telling me someone's going to go in there and say, actually, Bill, we're going to, we really want this receiver. We're not going to look at you like, uh, okay. What's your name again?

Can you wear a name badge around here? Because I'd never heard you, you know, that type of a thing. not the best collaboration inside the building. So it would be hard to do. What else you got in the notebook? I had one other note in the notebook, and it relates to just the same thing, a prior experience that I've had

as far as what's going on and how it relates to the Atlanta situation. We know that Arthur Blank and Rich McKay are searching for a new coach now, and in their release, they said Terry Fontno, the current GM would have input at some point. That was me in Miami

when Nick left to go to Alabama. stayed for another year. I know the drill like yesterday. And it, it, you were off to the side waiting. I was off to the side waiting for him put the owner of the president and their, their people. And I get it. I understand. You have to do it this way. I'm not criticizing it at all. All I'm saying is it's a tough spot for Terry Fontno. In Miami, those guys went and interviewed 10, 12 coaches all around the country. I was back in Miami trying to figure out what I needed to do. they eventually brought three finalists to me where I had some input on them. But what they're doing is, and what Arthur Blank and Rich McKay are doing is they're sizing

up the coaching positions, the candidates, who's okay with Terry, who's not okay with Terry, how do we settle on the final structure of this front office? So Terry can't really be involved in that because he may not be involved in it beyond the hiring of the coach. So that's my point is that the Falcons job is not open. But it very well could be depending on the antennas that come with the coach that they hire. That's all. And it's a tough spot. Having been there, it's a tough spot for Terry Fontno. It is. His life has changed in one way or the other, probably for the most part. But I guess, you know, if they were to get somebody to work with him, it could be a good situation.

Yeah, and it very well could happen. It's good for everybody. But you just don't know that. And my speaking on this is from his standpoint of you just don't know. And you may not know for two or three weeks. surprised you haven't pushed us to the picks a little sooner here Randy because you were three and oh I don't know what happened there must have been some weird turnovers or something but you you were three and oh in your picks last week you won on Tampa Bay you went on the Saints you went on Green Bay and guess what folks because it's our show I know we both picked Washington to beat Michigan that's a college pick that's in a separate category we're oh and one college picks all right we're not putting that in to our record here I was then one in the one I had the Giants taken five and a half against the eagles.

And I somewhat probably foolishly lost taking the Colts. I'm afraid I'm going to go against Houston again this week and be wrong again. But let's just go pick all the wildcard games. And we'll go game by game and let's just each of us give our pick on each game instead of separating our picks. So let's start with Houston, Cleveland. What are you thinking? Houston's plus two.

Yeah, Houston is plus two. They're the home team and the underdard. dog and I like where they're at right now. I see some injuries creeping up a little bit with Cleveland's defense. So I'm going to pick Houston and get two points over Cleveland. Yeah. So when these teams played a few weeks ago, C.J. Stroud did not play. That's a big deal, right, Randy? Is it a big deal when you're starting quarterback misses the game? And your best player. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Cleveland had 418 yards and 26 first downs. I'm always intrigued by these games where you're playing, you're playing an unfamiliar team.

These aren't in the same division, but you're playing them again. And then a totally different dynamic with Stroud coming back. I'm going to take Cleveland, and I think maybe they win by a field goal, but I'm afraid it runs out for them here. Do you feel strongly about this? Do you think that it's going to just, hey, Flacco is going to be exposed and Watson's going to be the, not Watson, I'm sorry, Stroud is going to be the guy? Well, I would say on my conviction meter, it's probably about a seven for me. I think the shalacking that they took, whenever that game was, is going to help Houston this time around. They know now what won't work.

So they're going to try some different things. I think Cleveland may have a tendency to go back and try some of the same things that worked again, and I understand both sides. So I just like the dynamics and the way it sets up for Houston at home, even though they're young and inexperienced, I think this is a game that they can win, and I've got two points on top of it. It looks like both of us are going to take the chiefs giving the four. Are we just following for the cold weather here and Miami's sort of on the downturn? We've got to remember Kansas City is not exactly on fire either. Yeah, I just think the relevancy of the injuries that Miami has had are just stacked up.

It's just too, too much to overcome. And I do think weather will be an issue. I will say this, though, if it is minus 30, like everybody's saying, And the running game for the dolphins has a chance. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, has a chance to make a showing and make a difference. But I'm not going to pick against Pat Mahomes, especially not at home. I don't really care who they're playing.

I might pick them over anybody at home, but I'm going to pick the Chiefs and give the four points. Yeah. I am too. That one thing is, hey, one of these teams knows how to and wants to run the ball. And that is Miami. It's part of their DNA. It's part of their scheme. It's big for them.

So it gives them some hope, but I'm with you. I'm going to be on Kansas City on this one. Buffalo, Pittsburgh. You can take Pittsburgh in nine and a half, or you can take Buffalo and give nine and a half. What do you think? I'm taking the points, man. I don't know that they can win the game,

and that's not my point. I don't think they'll win the game, but nine and a half is a lot of points. I think they can keep this game close. And if it's not close initially, they'll find a way to get back into it. There'll be a letdown on the Buffalo side to allow that. So I'm just taking Pittsburgh in the nine and a half points,

but I do think Buffalo will win the game. I'm going to take Buffalo and give the nine and a half. I think the Steelers have been blown out a few times this year, and I think this is one where the severe differential between the quarterbacks may play out over the course of the game. Now, by my logic, I should probably be taking the Texans as well. But I'll do that in this one. I do think Buffalo in some of these tight situations, close playoff games, you know, make some mistakes. but I'm going to take their just overall horsepower defense playing a little better.

I don't know if the Baltimore, the Steeler Run game is going to be enough there. Let's flip over to the NFC, Green Bay plus seven at Dallas. What are you thinking? I think Dallas is playing at a different level. I think Dax's playing at a different level. I like where they're at, especially at home. I think this could get away from Green Bay with their youth. And as much as I like Jordan Love, I just think this is going to be a big challenge for him.

I think Dan Quinn could do some things defensively to make his life miserable. So I'm going to give the points and take Dallas, seven points. Okay. I'll be on the other side and take Green Bay to keep it closer. My thinking a little bit is I think the state of their run games a little better, the hell of the running back position. That's the Achilles heel for Dallas. And when Dallas has played, you know, better teams, it's been, you know,

it's been a little harder than playing some of the bad teams. The question is, where does Green Bay fit in that? how good of a team is Green Bay. Jordan Love is playing pretty well. And he can also create a little. I think that's an important thing here. I don't think just him dropping back is going to do it against the Cowboys. But the combination of their run game, his ability to maybe even be a part of that run game,

Scramble makes some things happen. I give them a chance to keep it close. We'll see if they're able to do that. Really intriguing one here, Randy. Rams plus three at Detroit. I see you've got the lion circled. What are you thinking? I've gone back in four.

on this game. I'll be the first to tell you. I'm not sure where my conviction is here. It's probably more like a four or a five. But I think the running game that Detroit can bring to the table, and I think that's the Achilles heel of the Rams defense. I don't think they're great against the run. I think Dan Campbell, and we all know him as a physical, tough, hard-nosed coach, I think he wants to lay down a physical game. And to do that and keep the ball away from Matthew Stafford, Detroit's going to run the ball and I think they're capable of doing that against the ram. So I'm going to pick Detroit and give you the three points. I know you feel a little differently. Nervously, look, some of these are just tough. I think the Rams, I'll take the Rams with the

three. I may regret it. I'm not, my confidence meter is not an eight on this one by any means, but they can run the ball too. And I think that the combination of Matthew Stafford and Sean McVeigh, being in sync, it's going to be tough on the road. There's going to be a lot of crowd noise. But man, these guys went into Baltimore and won. These guys put it on Cleveland's defense. I don't think Detroit is that great defensively. And I think Matthew Stafford coming home with McVe,

these guys are going to be dialed in. We've seen Detroit have some issues against some of the better teams at times this season. Shoot Seattle went in there and won, and they're not even one. They just fired their coach. So that McVeigh-Stafford combination with him healthy and having a little bit of a run game, all lean that way, can't wait for this game.

Look, if the Lions win, not going to be shocked, but that was interesting. We're both taking Tampa Bay and given the three on Philly, did I convince you last week? Did last week convince you it with the Giants beating the Eagles? They got no answer. I'm just done with Philly. I can't pick a team where their quarterback hasn't thrown a pass since last Sunday, and Jalen Hertz has been hurt all week, hasn't practiced to the point where he should and needs to at this point. So I'm with you. I'm taking Tampa Bay and I think Tampa's defense will do some

things different. I think they're especially against the run has been challenged this year and I think they'll step up and I'm with Tampa, given the points especially. Yeah, it should be interesting. Will everybody enjoy the games? Do you got anything else, Randy? No, that's good. Good show, Mike. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. See what happens when we don't do any prep and don't run anything down? I'm kidding. We put it in some stuff. But love the conversation, Randy. It'll be just go back and forth, a lot of great topics, a lot of things worth investigating. You can find Randy on X at Randy Neeler underscore. You can find me there, Sano NFL.

You can find both of us here and on The Athletic. Have a great wildcard weekend, everybody. This was the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast.