The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Titans hire new GM, Aaron Rodgers’ future, Sean Payton sweepstakes and more

Episode Date: January 19, 2023

Mike Sando and former GM Randy Mueller begin the show by talking about Aaron Rodgers’ future with the Packers and the latest in the Sean Payton sweepstakes. Then, they dive into the GM hires from the Titans and Cardinals, the Browns new defensive coordinator and the Chargers firing of OC Joe Lombardi.Follow Mike on Twitter: @SandoNFLFollow Randy on Twitter: @RandyMueller_Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube1:17 Aaron Rodgers stirs the pot about future7:33 Sean Payton sweepstakes 16:34 Titans hire Ran Carthon as GM23:28 Cardinals hire Monti Ossenfort as GM34:48 Jim Schwartz named new DC of Browns38:50 Chargers fire OC Joe Lombardi44:23 Lamar Jackson situation 50:03 GM Notebook1:03:02 Divisional round picksSponsors! Today's show is brought to you by...Philo: Sign up today at philo.tv and use promo code MAYS to get 50% off your first monthBurrow: Show Burrow you’re listening to The Athletic Football Show by shopping at Burrow.com/mays and get 10% off your first orderLinkedIn: LinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/maysMizzen + Main: Go to mizzenandmain.com and use promo code MAYS, to receive $35 off any regular-price order of $125 or more Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome, everyone, to the Football GM podcast. I'm Mike Sandel, senior writer for The Athletic, along with the GM, Randy Mueller. Randy, good day. How are you doing? Doing great, Mike. Kind of looking forward to some of these topics

that we've been kicking around the last few hours. So some interesting ones that I think might get us both a little fired up at times. So it brings a smile to my face. You know, a couple of things get hackles up. When our dog, Roxy sees a school. we're all in the front yard. And when some of these things, shenanigans happen in the NFL,

the hackles go up on Mueller. Oh, my gosh. Especially when they're kind of an affront to the GM. Well, not only that. I just, when people always are drawn attention to themselves, I guess it's just my makeup. It just tries me crazy.

The game's going to go on, whether you're in it or not. Trust me, it's going to go on. But some of these guys think that it's all about them. And I understand. It is what it is. And that's our first two right out of the gate here. People are peeking on their preview.

their menu of what we're going to talk about. I said, I don't know whether to start with Sean Peyton or Aaron Rogers. Let's start with Aaron Rogers, like clockwork stirring it up again, suggesting on his Pat McAfee weekly show, which this is the league now, Randy. It's the Pat McAfee show. We got Sean Payton on Colin Coward. We got the McAfee show with Rogers. It's really a different world, an emerging world.

Is it a better world? Yeah, I don't know about that. I guess we need to have our own show, and maybe this is it, to combat a lot of the individualism that's out there, you know? That's right. Well, they'll be to turn it out if we start talking about ourselves. The people's choice. We'll be the people's choice show, yeah. People's choice show.

Well, so Aaron Rogers suggests basically the Packers should resign his buddies, Mercedes-Lewis, Ramob, Robert Tunyon, Alan Lazard, David Buktiari. And he says, quote, I think I can win MVP again in the right situation. Right situation? I almost kick you a straight face. Is that Green Bay or is that somewhere else? Not sure. I don't think he should shut down any opportunity. Like I said during the season,

that's got to be both sides, actually wanting to work together moving forward. I think there's more conversations to be had. So I actually have some thoughts that I put down, but I want to get right to you because, I mean, you're reading that if you're Brian Gutakun's sitting in there trying to, what's the GM doing right now? what's Brian Cootin is doing when he looks up from his whatever and sees this on the ticker?

What's he probably doing? He probably makes sure his door shut and takes a palm of his hand and hits himself in the forehead and just said, what have I done? This is a freaking nightmare. I'll be all honest. I mean, I don't know any way around it where any of this can be good. Again, I guess it's lifetimes, day. It's Aaron Rogers. I don't know.

I feel like Aaron Rogers is trolling this all the time. So, and we all bite. I get it. Everybody needs content. So it is what it is. But yeah, if you're the GM making some of these decisions, you just shake your head. And I don't know what he wants. I'm assuming that Brian maybe does.

They had to have had some of these conversations ahead of time. And maybe Aaron is letting the Packers know already or before this even came out that, hey, here's what I'm going to say. I don't know. I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. But as a GM, I don't know. I don't know the particulars of his contract. I don't know if there's a jumping off point.

I don't know the details of which would make it even palpable for him not to be there. Yeah. Some of that stuff is evident. Some's not. But here's the other thing, Mike, we don't know if there's a verbal agreement of some kind or not. And we can say there's no verbal agreements, but let's face it. I mean, maybe they told him, hey, sign this, we'll do this. And at the end of the day, if you don't want to be here, we'll talk about it.

So you're really giving him a license to do whatever he wants. Obviously, these guys that he wants to resign and said this and that are, at one point, they were good players. I'm not sure they're good players now. I'm not sure they figure into the future. I'm not sure if he's giving them a ransom note to say, hey, you can sign these guys and then there's something to talk about. The other part of it is the MVP stuff. I'll be honest with you, Mike, as a GM, in a respectful way, I don't really care if he wins the MVP. I really don't.

I want to win games. And so that's more of the individualism, things that I don't really care about. I want to do what's right for our team. There's 52 other guys downstairs that I want to go talk to and get their feelings on besides the quarterback. So the GM's about team. He's about doing what's right for the team. Obviously, they're a better team if Aaron Rogers wants to be there and comes back. I get it.

Nobody wants to jettison this guy. But he makes it very difficult to manage, to communicate, the public. stance on everything is at some point going to be worth it or not. And I guess it is, and they determined it is because they signed them to a long-term deal. But it raises a lot of red flags to me. And I don't think that's old guy talk. I don't think that's get off my yard talk. I just think it's football acutem 101 and we're team builders and we want to do what's right for our team. So there's some serious consequences whether they're intended or not by him. I don't know. Tell me, you tell me, maybe I just see it. Maybe I just see it.

totally different. I don't know. As far as to move on from them or trade, I'm the only way I think to do that capitalize would be after June 1, so you'd have to have something maybe worked out, and then you're going to do it. That's pretty late in the process to be adding a new quarterback or moving on from one. Although the 49ers proved you could have Jimmy Garapo in a separate practice field for the whole year, so anything's possible. But I would be tempted if I were the Packers or if I were, you know, the GM to be polite

to Rogers, but not be deferring to him and just really emphasize the team. I think people get that. I think the team gets that. I think the public gets that. This is a team game. And you're really saying what you said, this is not about MVPs. I could care less. We won two MVPs and couldn't get out of the, couldn't get to the championship game.

Couldn't get out of our own way. Yeah. Couldn't get out of our own way. So we can't beat Detroit. At home. That's what I'd like to say is I'd like to focus on being able to beat Detroit at Lambo. That seems like a good place to start. for us. Maybe we can put together a team that does that. Maybe it includes some of those guys that

Aaron Rogers wants on the team, but we can't then have anybody talking about the weaponry not being good enough if we're filling up three, four spots with Tunin Lazard, Cobb, and Mercedes-Lewis. Yeah. That's not what they need to do. They need to go. So I don't know if his agenda is to get out of there, but clearly he wants to plant that seed within the right situation because I think he would perceive the MVP stuff to be appealing to someone else, to a different team, hey, this guy could still be the MVP in the right place. That's what you say when you want a better team to be interested, I think. I think you're right, but I also think it crosses over to be in a detriment for a new team too. All of this talk, all of this circus, all of this, you know,

Barnum and Bailey BS, I think at some point people are going to say, enough. I don't want to have our laundry aired on McAfee every Tuesday. Sorry, I get it. I just pick a different. different lane. And that leads us into the Sean Payton thing too because he went on the Colin Coward Show and was talking about, you know, all of his options and Carolina, Denver, Houston, whatever, Arizona, all these teams. And he's going to meet with David Tepper in New York. And yeah, I think it's going to be, you know, probably a mid to late first round pick to get me. You know, he's sitting in the chair kind of leaning back with his legs crossed and, and, and, And, you know, I think Colin Coward asked him about the compensation.

And Peyton mistakenly started thinking he was talking about his salary or something. He was talking about compensation. Well, we haven't had the talk yet. And then Colin Coward had to say, I think there was a question. Peyton said, oh, caught himself and said, oh, we're talking about the trade compensation. And then he said, this year would probably be a mid to late first round pick. If nothing happens this year and we go to next year, then that changes considerably. And he interrupted Colin Coward to say that last part.

That last part was kind of, is that trying to say to the Saints, they better move on this thing because the conversation's not going to be? I don't know. What do you make of this one? I put myself in Mickey's shoes. And as you know, Mickey and I have been friends forever. Yeah, I worked together in 20 years. 30 years, I mean, right? Yeah, I mean, I just, if I'm him, I'm just shaking my head and wondering what the heck is going on.

I got news for Sean. I know he's had a conversation or two probably with Mickey about this, but I would think Mickey's going to do what's right for the Saints. So regardless of what Sean thinks is going to get the deal done, I don't think he's going to be the determining factor. I think Mickey and the Saints will do what's right for them. If they don't, then Saints owner, Gail Benson probably should have an issue because it is her franchise. Sean left on his own accord and kind of left them hanging. And so I don't know that they're going to do them a bunch of favors. I know this, that Mickey's very respectful of Sean, and they have a good relationship, obviously.

And he has always said that Sean has earned a right to do what he wants. I think there comes a time, though, it's got to be within reason. You need to have that in parentheses at the end of the statement. So I just felt like it was such a self-serving, almost, you know, pompous in a way, demeanor that all of this information came out. So I understand Sean's got to do what's right for him and he needs to drive negotiating power. So it's inclusive to have all these teams involved. And again, make it about him.

I don't know. That would make me a little Larry going forward because of all the information he spewed out. I'll be honest. If I was a GM somewhere else, I'd say, wait a second now. Is he going to be the sole provider for information in the future when he gets put in these situations? There was a lot of always said in New Orleans that he was the team spokesman on the football side, as most head coaches are. But there's a lot of decisions that go on behind the scenes that the other side of the building really doesn't want to be public. And it seems like some people want to make all of this thing public.

For what reason, I don't know. It just doesn't serve the team's best interest. So I might be rambling a little bit. I don't know where the guy ends up. I've said from day one, it's complicated because of three things. The compensation has to be worked out. and that means what the Saints get, the compensation to Sean in his pay scale has to be worked out. And I guarantee you there'll be some conversation about structure of the front office and how the football organization will be, will move forward and who falls under what umbrella.

So all those things got to be sorted out. Yeah, and the reason I transitioned into this conversation about Sean Peyton from Rogers was because I think the jumping off point was, hey, if some of this stuff from Rogers could be a little bit of a turn. off to other teams when you're always out there talking. Now, Sean Payton doesn't have a weekly show on McAfee. He doesn't have near the history of Rogers of saying this thing. He's in a unique situation where he's really trying to get stuff going to get back in the league. So there's a decent chance to me that when he's hired as a head coach again, he kind of goes back to just coaching and you fall into that kind of rhythm and cadence, possibly. And you're not, you have your weekly press conference to say what needs to be said. You don't have to go on some show and be saying

sideways things about the organization for some agenda down the road because you're talking about playing Carolina this week or whatever you're talking about playing uh you know could be playing new Orleans in the future whoever he's going to be playing um do you do you think that there's any see I kind of assumed to put it this way like when jim harbaugh said he was interested well guess what he didn't get an offer right I don't think jim harbaugh got an offer the assumption is hey jim harbaugh's coming back someone's going to hire him I think our assumption all along has been that there's going to be such a bidding war or so much interest in Sean Payton. Is that a guarantee?

Do you think it's a guarantee that he's going to be hired in this cycle? No, I don't. I mean, I think he will, but there's no guarantee by any means. And I think he may have realized that by throwing out at the end of that conversation, the fact that, well, if it doesn't happen this year, the price changes next year. So it has to be the right fit. And I'm telling you, there is two-thirds of the teams are more that wouldn't do any of the three things that I listed before.

So there's been a lot of speculation, and I'm not picking on the charges, but there's been speculation that the charges, they should hire Sean Payton. Well, you and I both know that's never going to happen. It's not happening. They're just not set up to do things or make decisions like that. Well, guess what? There's a lot of other teams that are set up that same way that just don't want to go that route.

So the bidding war, I just, I don't see it. I'll be honest with you. I don't know what David Tepper is going to do. I know this, that Scott Fitter will have something to say about. that. And I think George Payton, the GM of the Broncos, will have a little bit to say about what the Denver ownership ends up doing at the end of the day, probably less than where Scott's at, just because of what's transpired the last couple years. So, I mean, at least this year. So an interesting thing. I think there's two big fish kind of here in this thing, and that would be

Dan Quinn, and that would be Sean Payton for as potential coaches for Denver or Carolina in particular. and we know that Quinn interviewed in Denver last year. He's got a good relationship with George Payton, right? I think they were in Miami together. And then kind of circling above all of this was Jim Harbaugh's decision to go back to Michigan. At that time, I wondered if that means he knows that someone's getting the Denver job, Sean Peyton, but maybe that's not a done deal. Where do you put kind of where all that is at with Quinn there to?

wouldn't you think that Quinn's going to be in the mix for one of these top jobs too? Yes, I do. I think the same. I'll say this, Dan Quinn is a really good coach, and I think he will be in demand. And if he wants to be a head coach, he probably will be. But his same connection to George Payton in Denver, he has with Scott Fitterer in Carolina. They were together in Seattle longer than Dan was with George in Miami. So there's the same connection there, both with the general manager, both know Dan Quinn

well and both obviously would like to work with Dan because he's a good guy. He's not an ego-driven guy. It is not about him at all. So I live that. I know Dan and that would be awesome as a GM. So how much weight that has with ownership in both places? I don't know. But I think it can only be a positive. I think wherever Sean goes, there may be some acquiescing by the GM to definitely take a step back because Sean wants to be involved in all that stuff. I think it was easier for him to do that in New Orleans because Mickey came up on the business side and is more of a salary cap expert. He's not, you know, a football scout evaluator at all.

So it was easy for Sean to flex that muscle. That may be a tougher fit in these other areas, just my opinion. Yeah, I wouldn't imagine which general manager would be saying, let's get Sean Peyton, let's get Sean Payton, right? Or even let's get Jim Harbaugh, right? Or somebody like that who comes in and materially affects the role of the GM. I will say this, and I know both the GMs, and I think either would do what's best for the franchise, though. Yeah. Like we talked about, again, I had that same position in Seattle when we hired Mike Holbein, and I was able to slide really seamlessly to the side and do what's right for the franchise. So those guys would do the same. I have 100% faith in. Wouldn't it be

something if Quinn could choose between, you know, getting together reunited with George Peyton, reunited with Scott Fitter. And he's like, you know, I think I'd rather go where there's not a quarterback. Go to Carolina. Could be. And be reunited with Wilson after the year that he had. Amazing. That it could possibly be that type of a calculus.

We've had some other moves around the league. A couple of GM hirings. Let's go to Tennessee, Randy. When John Robinson was fired as the general. general manager of the team, we wondered to what extent a lot of people did. It might be a power grab by the head coach because it was sort of, wow, in the middle of the season, you don't usually see the GM fired. Sometimes you see him after the draft, but that was a little bit unusual. And so we wanted to see who they were going to hire and then be

able to maybe have some optics on it. So they hired Rand Carthon of the 49ers who has been there in recent years. What is the effect of that? What is the message or the six? Now that we know that's who they are hiring as the GM with Mike Frable as the head coach, what have we learned? Well, I think it's a good move. I know Rand. I've had acquaintance to be around him. He has paid his dues.

He understands what has made them effective in San Francisco. He's also been other places. I don't think there's an ego there. I think he's going to have its hands full probably with Coach Vrable, just because it's a different mentality. that he comes with. I think it's a good move for them. I wonder what he has been promised.

And again, I don't get tied up with who is in charge, who has final say. I don't really care about that because we're all going to work together. And my theory has always been, if we don't agree, we're going to pick a different lane. So I think Rand is that kind of guy. So we'll see. I mean, he's surely trained for it. And I think it's good for the Titans. to actually have a different set of eyes, a different set of values.

I think it's better for them to reach out somewhere else to someone who's been part of another building successfully structure. And obviously the 49ers have done that. Do you think that he is, you know, are there categories that GMs get into, Randy, in terms of types of players they like or have the vision for the team? Or does it really going to be Coach Rable's vision of the team that matters and that's what he conforms to? Well, I don't know because personality that Mike Frable carries is one that fills up the room. So I think he'll have his hands full in that he will have to obviously take the vision of Mike Vrable and where he has seen this team going to over the last few years and then meld his own people into it. I don't think it's about having one vision.

I think it's about having a shared vision and having some alignment. And I think Rann's personality will allow that. Hopefully Mike Vrable's will as well. Yep. Separately, the 49ers, Trey Lance, after that social media, here we go again, you know, put out something with his fingers crossed on that, that move, which made everybody think, maybe he's hoping to be, that Rancarthur will bring him to the Titans. So there's always something, Randy, I guess. Probably not going to be dictating what happens, but I thought it was at least notable.

Yeah, I don't disagree. I think it's a little bit immatureish, probably on Trey's part. I mean, I don't think he's going anywhere. I think the 49ers are going to make their position of quarterback as strong as they can going into next year. And I think Trey Lance is probably in for the battle of his life. He's not been afforded and given a job now at this point. He kind of was last time around. And now he's going to have to go earn it because of the way Brock Purdy's played. So as long as Brock Purdy is not the reason if the 49ers don't move on or don't win a Super Bowl,

I think he will come into camp as their starter next year. but I think Trey is going to have every opportunity to compete against him. So I don't know what the tweet meant to answer your question. I just kind of racked it up as being a little immature. I don't think he's going anywhere. And I don't think that's anything fans should even take to the next level with. Week 5 starter for the 49th next year. Is it Brock Bertie?

I would think so. Again, I have seen nothing, Mike, that tells me that he is physically flawed, mentally flawed, or has any flaw at all that says we can't win with this guy. And the biggest indicator for me is, and we've said it on the show, is I don't think Kyle Shanahan calls a different game. I don't think he has to protect him. I think the kid knows what he's doing. The ball comes out on time. Some people in that pocket, they look downfield, but they don't see.

This kid seems to look downfield and see. So that is a big thing. And I hope that makes sense for people. Because people with vision in the pocket, it's not something you can take for granted. I see a lot of quarterbacks in this league right now with vision. division downfield and they don't see a thing. It is cloudy and that's a bad feeling. And I don't see that from Brock Purdy at all. I think he's a pretty decisive decision maker and he's not one that's aired too many times and I only think he's going to get better. Yeah. Outstanding for the

49ers, if that's the case. Isn't that the way it goes? Randy, you do everything it can to get this guy or that guy and then something just happens and you've got a different guy. You know why you don't know? Because you don't know when the lights are bright. There are many players that we've been around that in practice the guy doesn't wow me at all. I see him. I say, okay, he's all right. I mean, I understand the skills. I see some stuff there.

But when the lights come on bright, some people can take it to the next level. And you see that in any industry, any business. When people get an opportunity, they either shine, they wilt, they grow into it, one of those categories. And you see this quarterback in Brock Purdy that has shined when the pressure is on. And that can't be duplicated in practice, so you don't know. Yeah, can you think of someone who was just horrible in practice and ended up being good? I'm just trying to going back and thinking of all the quarterbacks you had over the years. Well, I can think of one in particular myself because I wasn't one.

I wasn't one for in practice to wow anybody. I was 5 foot 10. I had an average arm, but I just know when the lights came on. And it's been the same in my front office career. I just think some of us, when we get an opportunity, you can shine. And you don't know until the lights are brightest. And some people just operate better with. within chaos, within the pocket, within whatever, and they can really prove themselves.

So John Kitten, I'll give you that. John Kitten is one of those guys who we had in Seattle for years. Now, those young guys probably won't remember him, but Google him. He only played about 15 years and threw a bunch of touchdowns and yardage. And John was one of those guys that never wowed me at practice, but I always felt like when he was in the game in the fourth quarter, we had a chance to win. Because I knew he'd be brightest in the fourth quarter when the drives meant the most, that he would not pee his pants, so to speak.

I knew what we had. And so that's a hard one to duplicate until you really get him in that position. Well, the reason he didn't look good in practice because you're watching those Warren Moon spirals. There's nothing prettier than... There's something to be said from that. And Warren was top-notch, too, as we all know. Oh, yeah, yeah.

He learned from some good ones. Yeah. Yep. Okay, in Arizona, the Cardinals hire Monti Austin Ford as general manager. Mike Bidwell, the owner of the Cardinals, goes outside the building for someone who is. has been with John Robinson in Tennessee, been with Bill Belichick in New England.

So he's done a lot of winning. I was looking at that. I don't know if he's got 17 years places. It's something like 15 winning seasons or a lot of winning for championships with the Patriots. And I thought, interestingly, his first quote, at least that I saw, that people singled out that was passed around was that egos will not be tolerated in the building there. I thought that was an interesting reference given some of the drama they've had around there with Kyler Murray, the head coach, all of that last season.

What do you make of that hiring for Arizona? I like it a lot. I've known money a long time. I know he's a solid football acunum that comes with him. He's a hard worker. He's not a me guy. He's not all about me at all. I really like these guys that are getting these opportunities

that don't make it about them. He'll be a good team guy and a partner for whoever the coach is he desires. And you're right. He comes from good stock. A lot of mixed results for guys that have come from the New England way, but I think Monty is a little different. You know, he left there a few years ago and went to the Titans. He saw probably pros and cons as to how it affected John Robinson.

And who knows, maybe John Robinson ends up as the assistant GM in Arizona or something like that because of that. My question probably would be how much rope does he really have in Arizona? Because as we've talked about, the elephant in the room is Kyler Murray. and do we have to hire a coach and a system that works for him? Or can we hire the best coach and the best system and then see if Kyler can fit into that? So that's the mark of demarcation in regard to any hires, whether it's GM or coach, is that how much rope do we have with Kyler Murray?

I've said on this show, and you've asked me about it, I'd want to know, are there any platforms for jumping off with Kyler Murray? And I'm going to try to make it work with him. but at some point if it's not, I want to be able to jump off when I can, and I want to know, can I explore other options? So these are probably questions that Michael Bidwell and Monty had before he got there. And then are there any sacred cows in the building? Do we have to go with anybody, whether it's Vance Joseph or any of these other guys,

with regard to their own jobs that they have right now. Forget the head job. That's a place that I would want to have those decisions and those questions answered before I took the job. Yeah, my only reservation with Monty is that he was a small college quarterback coming out. Is that something that can be overcome in scouting, Randy? Probably not. I'm just kidding because he's a Minnesota Morris guy, Randy, Linfield College guy.

So that's awesome. That's really cool. I remember we were together one time at University of Michigan, and we're on the sidelines for a game. And this is scout talk, right? But we're on the sidelines and might even have been a bowl game. But it was when Michigan was struggling. And it wasn't the Michigan that we've seen. And I remember we were both standing on the sidelines and we watch Michigan come out and

they're getting ready to go through warmups and we're body type in the offensive linemen, the defensive linemen. And we both kind of looked at each other and we said, where's Michigan? I thought Michigan played today because these guys weren't up to standards that we had seen before. So I know he has a sense of humor as well. But he also knows what a player looks like. I can tell you that. and he'll do a good job in finding guys that look good getting off the bus as well as being good players.

Yeah, I'll be really interested to see who they hire his head coach. Obviously, Vance Joseph's in the mix, Frank Reich, Brian Flores, Domingo Rines have all been mentioned. Sean Peyton's been mentioned. I don't know that I see that. Yeah, I don't know. If we're going to have no egos in the building, you probably are going to have somebody who's less skins on the wall and glitzy possibly? Well, don't forget they're paying the GM. They're paying a coach already for.

several years at top dollar so yeah absolutely so I guess I was sometimes the GM comes in and there's like a holdover coach that you stay for a year and you sort of get some time to buy but I guess in this situation he's they're going to be hiring somebody if it's Vance Joseph um there's some continuity would you do you care about that coming as a gym do you want a fresh start get it new are you okay with the holdover does it depend is that something that could be meaningful, depending on who they hire? I think it's a great question. And I think it depends case to case, just my opinion.

I think it depends on each case. In this case, I see Arizona as having to be probably slightly more than a retool. So I wouldn't be worried about it. He needs to find the people he trusts and thinks are good. And again, you've got to be good teachers. And I'm not saying the guys that are there now are not. But he ought to be afforded to hire guys who he wants, who he understands, who maybe he has a shared vision with and knows already.

Here's the deal. When you hire coaches, especially a head coach, and then he hires his staff, I think there is benefit to hiring people who everybody says, oh, he hire your buddies or you hire people you work with. You know the reason that happens? It's true that some take that to a different level and it haunts them. It's also true that if you're familiar with these guys, you can hit the ground running and there's no learning curve.

You know exactly what you're doing. It happened to me when I was in New Orleans. One of the reasons I hired Jim Haslett is because I knew that he would be willing, because I knew him from quite a ways before that, I knew that he would be willing to put the rest of his world aside for about five months because that's what it was going to take. It was an all-inclusive rebuild from the ground up. And I needed a partner that it sounds crazy and stupid because you almost got to put your family and everything aside for four or five months. And I knew Jim would do that. So I don't know.

He's going to be all in with you. Yeah. You've got to be all in. you've got to live it. And if you know each other, and if you've talked about players and vision and schemes before, I sure like the idea of the familiarity leading you to hitting the ground running and having no learning curve. But let's face it, when these guys take these jobs, whether they hire a coach now or halfway through January, free agency is going to be here in no time. You've got to also decide on your own players. And so if you have a history of discussion these things already,

which a lot of guys do in the league, I think it's very helpful. So do you see this as a the New England higher at all? Or do you see Monty? I know you said he's a little different from that. But on that spectrum of, let's just say, Belichick is a 10,

right? And then Zero would be all the way in the opposite direction. I would say Nick Hacero's a 7, right? Wouldn't you say he's in that? Or 8? Yeah.

Yeah, 7 or 8. Is Monty a 5 or a 6 or something like that? Yes, I think you've got him pegged perfectly. I think he's his own man. He's taking the positives from there. He's not strictly a New England guy. I think he understands.

why they've had success there, but he also understands things that they've struggled with there. So, yes, I wouldn't consider this the pure, you know, Eric Mangini or somebody else that came out of there, you know, who had been there their whole time. Monty's going to be his own man and put in his own system, and I think that bodes well for Arizona. I kind of like Frank Reich there a little bit. Yeah, I do too. Here's why.

Can I just interrupt for one second? Yeah, yeah, tell me. Because of his open-mindedness and his array of being able to do. do things with different people. I do like that. I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, no, that's what I was going to ask you. It's like, that's just sort of an instinct of mine that there's some other ones that would be fascinating, you know. I mean, Brian Florev's going in there is very strong and then have Kyler's situation. That could be, you know, but I think, you know, I think from an offensive standpoint and maybe a temperament

standpoint with the GM. Yes, the quarterback and the GM. Yeah, it's just interesting. I guess I would be thinking about how do I want to sort of address this Kyler thing? And there would be one way would be to be a little bit more, a little bit older school, a little bit firmer, a little bit, hey, we're going to win this game on defense anyway. And that was, you know, Brian Floress in Miami, strong, kind of stern, you get that impression. But the defense is squared away. I mean, they played good defense the whole time.

Obviously didn't handle the offensive coaching and all that very well. He probably would do a better job this. time of having that set up, but it would be jarring potentially for Kyler Murray, in my opinion. It would be at the other end of the spectrum, and that's why I think maybe even, and I like Brian, I think he would be a good choice because he'd post everybody up, but I think Frank is somewhere in the middle. Yeah, but I would, I'm just thinking from a handling Kyler Murray, does Kyler Murray need tough love? Does Tyler Murray need to be, you know, comforted? Does Tyler,

Kyler Marini, does that matter in this when we're making this higher if you are, because you're with, you're with Kyler for the next year or two. It's not an easy out right away. Does this coach, I guess would you want someone harder on Kyler or softer on Kyler? Or more agreeable?

Well, I'll tell you what I'd like is an offense that I believe in that I know can work and has a system and scheme in place, not just calling plays. I think Kyler has going to, Kyler is going to have to acquies to whatever, the coach wants at this point. Yeah, he's got his money. I get it. But I think he's going to be the one with something to prove. Now, if they hire a young unproven coach, then Kyler has the

hammer again, and it's a struggle to get what you want. But I think any way you look at this, and people say, well, Kyler and Cliff Kingsbury got sideways a little bit, I think you've got to be careful if you're Kyler has to be careful what you wish for, because it would be a guy like Brian Flores would, like I say, post him up. He would be accountability beyond anything he's ever had. I don't know if Kyler can handle that. I really don't. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But from what we've seen, body language and the negativity and the other things that he shows on the field, that'd be hard because I don't think Brian Flores would take that. I think Frank might be a little better with it, but in the end, that would wear Frank out. So I don't know. These are all discussions. I would rather get the correct coach for the other 51-1. or 52 guys and hope Kyler fits in because there's more to it than that. I'm not going to do everything to fit Kyler Murray into this peg.

No, but yeah, but you have to sort of go forward with him a little bit. So what I was thinking was somebody in that organization, and I'm guessing the owner had to be part of it, wanted that clause in Kyler's contract. No question. That said, this guy's got to work. And somebody leaked it out. It wasn't Kyler.

No, but it was going to get out because once the contract goes to the league office, a contract of that magnitude, all the agents look at it. it because they want to see, ooh, what did he get? So when they do their deal, so that was going to come out. Now, maybe they didn't think that thing through, but, but that, you know, that to me almost shows an aggressive move already, you know, an aggressive move towards him already. So I think it'll be fascinating. I'm sure Moniasford will have a, you know, getting the fit with him is going to be critical

too. So we'll see where that goes. But there's just a lot. That's just an interesting one to me. Yep, I agree. Another move made. The Browns hired Jim. Schwartz as defensive coordinator, which to me seems like a pretty amazing hire. You know, you could

possibly look at the Brown situation and say, hey, Kevin Stefansky might be entering a winner-else season with all the expectations on Deshawn Watson. So, you know, does every defensive coordinator going to want to sign on in a place where it's not year one for everybody? The clock is ticking, right? That staff, that head coach could be under some pressure. So I wondered if Schwartz at this stage of his career is just more concerned with who he's working with. I thought about Stefansky kind of being an Ivy League guy. Schwartz has, I think, an economics degree or something from Georgetown. You know, and shoot, maybe there is great potential to get this thing going anyway.

But that one kind of was an interesting hire to me. I kind of perked up. Yeah, I think it's a good hire, actually. And I think all for the reasons that you mentioned, I think there's some good fits there. Obviously, I think educational pedigree matters with the hiring people. in Cleveland, so he does fit with that. I think, like I said, he's an aggressive, he's a confident play caller. He has a scheme that has proven to work.

I don't think, and again, maybe I'm all wet, but I don't think Kevin Stefansky's on the hot seat. I really don't. I think he's going to be there for two or three years. I think the commitment that him and Barry have as the GM and coach to each other, I don't think that has soured at all. Oh, no. They've got to do a better job maybe of identifying and setting their, criteria for adding talent on both sides of the ball. So we'll see. But I think Jim Schwartz sees this as a

solid place regardless of how they took a step back last year. That's just my opinion. Yeah. Well, I wasn't at all questioning how solid Andrew Barry and Kevin Sifansky are. I mean, I think you can just see that, what listening to him talk. But I do in the back of my mind have that owner is still being there. You know, and you never know. I think the owner made him do to Sean Watson probably. And And, you know, if they have in a disappointing year, you never know what could happen in a place like leave. And I think in a place like that, periodically you are reminded who the owner is, you know, when the owner is bad or volatile or whatever. And there is a track record there with that owner that has to be a little, has to be in the back of my mind anyway. But the educational pedigree thing mattering is that's a great point because they interviewed Sean Desai as well.

He's got an undergraduate degree from Boston University. he's got a master's from Columbia, doctorate from Temple. So I think he was even a professor at one point. Are you saying our Whitworth and Linfield degrees don't match up? Is that what you're saying? No, yeah, exactly. I thought the degree is in the School of Hard Knocks

isn't going to get you into. What's the mod of you that I went to? Yeah, that's right. But it's funny. I was talking to a coach about Jim Schwartz, and he goes, hey, I think Schwartz might be the only defensive coordinator who doesn't even use a call sheet. He said, hey, if there's 20 calls on, if you're on your 21st, third, and one of the year,

he remembers the previous 20. That's Jim Schwartz. He's a pretty sharp guy is what it is. I hear it. So I just think that's a also from a credibility standpoint, you know, whatever was going on there last year, sometimes this just happens. But, you know, Miles Garrett had things to say. Jadavia and Clowny thing had things to say.

There were points during the year when players said things that, you know, We're sort of indicative of, I don't know if losing the trust or something. So you bring in Jim Schwartz, who's been a head coach. People should know that he's established. So maybe it's easier to come in. And Kevin Stefansky doesn't have to worry about that side of the ball. He's got a head coach of the defense now, someone who's been a head coach, and people aren't going to question.

And I also think their philosophical vision is probably aligned, whether one's on one side of the ball or the other. I just think they seem of similar ilk. into what it takes to win games. So that probably helped the marriage happen as well. Yep, yep. Another one, the Chargers fired Joe Lombardi, offensive coordinator.

You'd sit all along, Randy. Of course, you spent 10 years or so with the Chargers that they were not going to fire Brandon Staley's head coach. And you know I take everything you say as gospel. I would never question it. But I felt dumb doing this, but when it was 27, nothing, you know, they were looking good to beat Jacksonville.

But then all of a sudden they're losing that. game. I actually texted Randy. I was like, all right, you still, you know, how confident are you on this thing? And you still came back and said you were, you were unwavering on that, that they were going to keep it. Instead, of course, instead, though, they fired the offensive coordinator. So we talked earlier about sometimes when the, you know, there's certain things like the squirrel in the yard, my dog gets the hackles up. Is this one, is this a hackle up for Mueller on what's going on there? Or what do you think? Well, I don't know if it's a hackle up. It's, it's been the MO. History. is repeating itself. I think when Mike McCoy was the head coach, and you're right, I was there 10 years, Mike McCoy was our head coach. I think the coordinator got fired the year before. It might have been Frank Reich at the time. Anthony Lynn became the coach, but the year before he got fired, the offensive coordinator got fired. And so this would be a third time where, and again, I don't know what Brandon Staley's future is, but they fire the offense coordinator again. So they give swings to head coaches that most franchises don't. I will.

say that. And a lot of that is based a couple reasons. Some of it might be financial. Some might be the decision makers and the people that hired them aren't ready to admit they may be wrong. So that's all part of it. And I'm not being critical of it. Those are all just facts. So I don't know. I mean, I think Joe Lombardi's a good coach. I'll be honest with you. I like him. I've known about him. Obviously, my ties to the Saints and he's been in and out of there twice. This is the second time he's been fired as an offensive coordinator. But I know this. He's a good coach. Did I miss something or did Joe Lombardi decide to play these starters week 18 and get Mike Williams' back injured and really linger and not be having them available in the playoffs?

I don't think so. So I'd be shocked if they blame Joe Lombardi for that. So there's other things to blame. At some point, and we say this, it seems like every year about the Chargers, they kind of win the offseason. Everybody's darling to pick them to go to the playoffs. The AFC West was the greatest division ever when the season started and all these teams were going to do this and that. And it seems like they never meet expectations for whatever reason. I don't, I think I have an idea why I'm not really ready to say it here, but the, the expectations just never get fulfilled. And that's a hard thing.

Whether they hold a coach accountable, I don't know. I know this, that if they hired another coach, it'd be the fourth coach they've hired in, well, I don't know if you count nor if it'd be four coaches in 13 years. So that's a lot of coaching hires that haven't worked out for whatever reason. And so by the way, since 2002, here's their quarterbacks. Breeze, breeze, breeze, breeze, breeze, breeze, rivers, rivers, rivers, rivers, rivers, rivers, rivers. It's not a broken record. Rivers, Rivers, Rivers, Rivers, Rivers, Herbert, Herbert.

You think you could do okay with that? Yeah, I'd like to sign up for that. I was there for a few of those rivers, rivers, rivers. I haven't been there for the Herbert stuff, but I see big time talent there. And for whatever reason, it just hasn't equated to anything of a deep run at all. So maybe it's the rest of the team. Obviously, it's the rest of the team and the roster they put together because it's just at some point, we are what we are, as Bill Parcells used to say, right? At some point, you are what your record says you are.

Yeah, yeah. It's just not being good enough. At least this year they moved up to second in the division. and I think it's no shame to be second to the chiefs in that division. I agree. They're the cream of the crop, but they haven't won the division since 2009. So that's a long time to go. Why are people talking about the coach should be fired if everything's hunky-dory?

That's the hard part. It's because they haven't reached expectations, like I said, in my opinion. Yep, absolutely. So maybe big picture, you know, they missed the playoffs last year. They make it this year. Yeah, they might see that as progress. That's right. They might see that as progress or at least not some big, a huge step back.

Maybe they can talk about, you know, whatever injuries this or that. You're right. The Mike Williams won at the end of the year was. Really, it was coaching malpractice to roll those guys out there. I don't see any way that makes sense to me. And I'm not one to be that critical that quickly. But tell me what makes sense about rolling those guys out there when he did and putting those guys in harm's way. You can't do it.

Can't do it. That's why I think people who weren't as familiar with the lay of the land there thought, well, he's going to be fired, right? You can't survive making that decision and then have yourself lose that kind of a lead in the second half. The thing that I would like to see for them is just develop some kind of a running game. You know, that's really stood out a little bit in the second half when they were trying to, you know, you'd like to be able to sit on the ball. They just couldn't get anything going.

I don't know if that's Joe Lombardis or, you know, one thing there is, you know, the offensive line coach is a big deal for that too. And there's been some change there. So maybe whoever they get can get that squared away. because I think that helps any quarterback, but that really could help Justin Herbert, especially in some of those games are trying to close out. I don't disagree.

I'm not sure the right parts are together up there, and that could be another box they need to check as well. All right. Before we get to the GM Notebook, the Lamar Jackson situation has been lingering. We've talked about that. I don't know how much new ground there was, but I've been a little critical of John Harbae,

I think, down the stretch, I'm sure he covets my advice. He's probably listening right now. But really throughout the saga, I felt that he had opportunities to kind of put it to rest. Even if you don't mean it, you could certainly say, hey, everybody, there's nothing to talk about here with Lamar Jackson. He's rehabbing when he's ready. He'll be ready to go. He's working hard.

But we're not going to put anyone out there before they're ready. And just sort of take away the idea that Lamar Jackson might be maybe missing these games, even though he can come back. because I always had the impression from what John Harbaugh said that he was coming back and not coming back. And then at the end of the season, he misses the playoff game. And it feels like the situation is maybe a little bit more inflamed. We've seen more social media stuff from Lamar, too. You know, that's kind of the way it goes now to where he puts out something kind of cryptic talking about, hey, you know, when you have something good, you better value it or if you want it to do good by you and all that type of stuff here.

So I almost feel like, you know, at this point, Harbaugh's kind of got to come out and say, this is our guy and there's nothing to see here going on the off season. I think he does have his press conference scheduled for this week, maybe on Thursday. He hasn't talked yet since after the season, but it's kind of a long time to let this thing linger, isn't it? It is, but I don't know what you want him to say. I don't think he's going to say, we're going to give Lamar a fully guaranteed contract. We made a mistake. The Ravens have been run very soundly for many years.

They are one of the few teams who sticks to their principles. They're not going to make exception. They're conscious of setting club precedent that's going to hurt them down the road as far as negotiating goes. And I respect them for that. I think one thing that has changed since last week is Lamar came out and said publicly and gave his interpretation of the injury and what's going on. That would never happen. if they were on the same page, Mike.

That's about as far from club policy as one would ever go or want. If indeed the Ravens had believed in that, they probably would have said something themselves, like you said, and Harbaugh would have mentioned that, hey, he's just not ready. And he didn't say that. I think you're right.

He thought he was ready, which tells me their medical people have a different perspective of where Lamar's injury is. I think the relationship is frayed, no question. I don't know that he comes back there, but if Lamar's intent is to get a fully guaranteed deal, I'm pretty confident that it won't be with the Baltimore Ravens. So I don't know what that means at the end of the day, whether they tag him, move him, whatever. The other thing is, with it comes, and we've talked about this at nauseam, his style, it can be reckless.

I get it, but it also can be explosive, so that's good. All of the pressure that seems to be coming out right now and hammering the Ravens, in my opinion, has come from a lot of former players who are analysts now. They've kind of came out and said, the Ravens are idiots. If I was Lamar, I wouldn't play. They got to do what's right by the kid. The last time I checked, didn't they offer him 40-some million a year with a bunch of guarantees? So he had a chance to put this to rest too. It's not all on the lap of the Ravens.

Now, obviously, X players are going to see it from the player's point of view. I'm going to see it a little more from the club's point of view. But it's a two-edged sword when negotiations broke down. And I go back to this point, Mike. And remember we talked about it. You remember in preseason when they said they were done to negotiate and they were going to come back and do something later, the Ravens put out a release, I'm saying before they hung up the phone with Lamar that stated their case, and that never happens either.

Just said, hey, we're done negotiating, blah, blah, blah. We'll pick it up later. He's our guy. Boom. They wanted it ended. They wanted it done. And from that point on, I thought, I don't know how this is going to go because you would really never jump on that per se like they did. I don't know.

I think we could be sitting here and talking about this in the near future of the Mars done with the Ravens. Yeah, yeah. That's going to be fascinating to see. It feels the component of this that I think has made it harder is the absence of an agent. I think that these things are very personal, you know, and it would be much easier to have that conversation, the hard conversations with the agent without the player, you know, having it go to him directly. I don't know. Most people can't handle that.

Yes. Right. I mean, it takes a lot of experience. It's really why people have agents. And a lot of times it's not just a negotiating. It is being an advocate and a communicator with the team at all times. And that is really hard to do when it's family and it's a different set of dynamics. That's all.

It's personal. Yes. Everything's personal. Right. Where this can, from a Raven standpoint, this is always mostly business. 100% all the time. The team's standpoint is business. Almost everything's business.

Sure, you get some personal things. But for the most. part, it's business and there'll be a new set of players next year, right? You're in business. But for the player, it's their career, it's everything, it's how we're being treated, it's respect, it's how could you ought to make that offer, it's who you're listening to. And it's being 25, 26 years old, right?

Which is, you know, young. You know, and you don't have experience in these matters. And you might have, anyone's going to have a different viewpoint or a perspective on things when they're 40 or whatever. So I think that's an interesting component of this, too. All right, we can wrap that up there on the Ravens. We'll see what happens there. We'll see what John Harbaugh says at his news conference,

first one since they're close loss to Cincinnati in the playoffs without Lamar Jackson. Let's dive into the GM notebook. What do you got there, Randy? Well, a couple of three things, actually. And I'm going to stay away from the games. I'm sure we have analyzed the games forever. But a couple of things to me that have happened since then. One was a game-related, and we all saw the meltdown of the Cowboys kicker,

Brett Moher, missing four extra points in that game the other night. Everybody's screaming that he needs to get an Apple and a bus ticket and move on, and they should cut him and blah, blah, blah. It was amazing. I mean... It was amazing. I agree. I don't think I've ever seen it. In fact, I saw a note from Elias that they put out, It hadn't happened since 1932.

So it is amazing because it's the first time it's ever happened in our lifetime. So no need to go back and check it out. It's something none of us have seen. But to that end, I kind of thought where I thought I would know where Mike McCarthy was going to weigh in. And sure enough, they did not cut Bradmaher. They're not going to. I think when you do that, and I've been part of an unstable kicking situation before, where it turns into revolving kickers.

and the next guy misses, and then it's turned into a total mess. So they believe in Dallas that they have the right kicker. They believe that his year this year, which was actually a really good year, he's going to come back to that body of work. They think this is a one-off night, and I don't disagree. But one thing I do like is they brought in kickers to work out, and they signed one to the practice squad, Tristan Viskayino. A guy has been around looking for a job and has had jobs in the NFL.

So it's like, we're going to put you on notice, maher, but we're going to keep you. And we'll just see if this happens again or if there's any slippage at all. We've got a guy that we've watched kick down in front of us for a week or two who's on the practice squad. I thought it was a pretty astute move by the Cowboys. So I've always wondered this. I've kind of always said that when a kicker goes bad, people just get a new one. It's not like they go out there and fix his grip like a golfer. No one knows what to do.

I just know he's missing. So if it's Tuesday in the NFL and your guy just missed three kicks and so, all right, we're having tryouts. We bring some guys in and we're not standing on the practice field. If you're standing on the practice field, Randy, watching a kick, are you just watching if it goes in? Or is there something? Ooh, I really like that guy's hip movement through the ball. Are kickers analyzed? They are analyzed.

People have experts that do analyze them. I know when I was in Miami, we had a guy, Steve Hoffman, who I'm not sure he might even still be in the league somewhere. Yeah. who was a kicker himself and analyzed kickers and punters for me and could break it down, computer generated schematically, and I loved it. I thought it was outstanding. So, yes, you can analyze them. Most of these kickers have personal coaches as well that work with them as specialists in the offseason.

So I would definitely consult them. Yeah, you're looking for results without a doubt. But I think more than anything, you're looking for a mindset. So if you were looking for help, you might hire a shrink or something like that to talk to them, because that's the big thing. They're physically not going to lose it. I thought last week's his explanation was that, hey, it might have been the yips. It just got the best of me.

I get it. But let's see if he can come out of that. So I understood putting some pressure on him by working out some guys. I just don't think anybody wants to go start a revolving door and make it a kicker's tryout every Tuesday. And that's what you're afraid of when you make these moves. And you also, I know the kind of guy Mike McCarthy, is he wants to back his players for the most part. They did win the game. I think that helps.

It really wasn't close. This guy didn't cost us the game. And so I thought there was relatively decent chance that they would keep him, regardless of what Kim's from the fans or the analysts on TV. So it kind of worked out like I thought. I didn't anticipate them putting a guy into practice squad. I thought it was a good move. Yep. Steve Hoffman, by the way, is with the Falcons. There you go. He was with the Cowboys a long way back. He was the University of Miami. Was he at Miami with Dennis Erickson? I don't know that. He was with us at the Dolphins, so good coach really serves a specific purpose that most of us don't know a lot about. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it says here in his bio, prior to his time, the NFL Hoffman sent four seasons 85 to 80 at University

of Miami as a kicking coach where he coached Jeff Fiegel's. There you go. There you go. That's awesome. I see him every once in a while when we go back to a game with the Giants. Great guy. Yeah, great guy. He was Seahawks Punter at late 90s when I came on the beat there. I remember we paid him a million dollars, Mike, and I didn't sleep for three weeks. I said, this is crazy. I can't believe we're doing this. But we had had some problems. And I forget what the year was. And I remember the whole deal came out to a million dollars. And I'm thinking, what is this world coming to? We paid a hundred a million bucks. I must be losing it. But it was a guy. Probably Dennis's guy. He was great. He could dominate a game with the

coffin corner stuff. He could put that thing down there. I remember a game. actually at the Giants one time where he had him pinned down there at like the three yard line every time. It was unbelievable. So Viggs, if you're out there, hello, I hope you're doing well. Randy Mueller helped put your kids through college. What's the number two item in the GM notebook? The other thing that I thought was a little peculiar because we don't see this often is

Dolphins assistant coach, Darrell Bevel, turned down a chance to interview for the commander's OC job and the Jets' OC job. So it just made me think, what's up? Why would you do that? Is the coach there on thin ice? Is it that you don't think you could be allowed to do your deal? Is it the quarterbacks are a mess? I don't know, but there's some carryover between both those offenses and the history they've had the last couple years.

I just thought it was interesting because we all know Darrell Beville being a Seattle guy. He was their coach for a long time. I know he wants to be a coordinator again. I just thought it was interesting that he said, no, I'm good. Our season's over. And usually no one would turn down those interviews, but he turned out. down two of them for whatever reason. You might know.

I don't know. Well, this would be my theory. This would be my theory on it. Number one, I would not go to the commanders if I had another job because Ron Rivera just completely botched the Wentz thing. They're talking about Sam Howell starting next year. They don't have a plan of quarterback. I mean, they just fired Scott Turner when basically it's covering for Ron Rivera, in my opinion,

because of Ron Rivera went and got the quarterback. Do you think that I can't imagine that the coaches there were like, God, get us Carson Wentz, you know, or whatever. I can't imagine they got him because of Scott Turner. So that was not a good, that's not a good situation. Ron Rivera could be going into his last year. There was going to be an ownership change. I could definitely see that.

The Jets won, I mean, maybe a little bit of the same. You're in a, you could be going to a coach who's under the gun next season. You know, if they weren't to win, they don't have necessarily the quarterback situation, you know, in order. And then the other thing is, I think for Darrell Bevel, with another year of kind of getting that Shanahan offense down and just having that a little bit to add your business card instead of just one year. But it's like, hey, I've run this offense.

And now I'm kind of a Shanahan. Yeah. A different lineage. Yeah. Attached to a different lineage. Yeah. And Darrell Bevel has in the past been mentioned. I think he interviewed for head coaching job once with Arizona.

He's been a little bit on the periphery of that mix. And so why go into a bad situation? And he may like working with Mike McDaniel and he may be having fun. And look, they made the playoffs and we'll see what they do at the quarterback if they're going to be two or whatever. But he's 53. He's not 63 or 73. So maybe he's reinventing himself here a little bit with Mike McDaniel. And he thinks the offense is really cool.

And that's not a bad association to have, right? No, I think those are all great points. I wish I had thought of them myself. We had to have the standout journalist notebook in here. Yeah, we need to have a journalist notebook. No doubt. That's pretty good. So I just thought it was peculiar that he turned down both.

It doesn't happen. But you've made great sense of it for me. So I'm happy to be a part of it. I finally made a point. The last point I had in here was just a generalization. And really I had put down in my notes, Tom Brady question mark. Ah, yeah.

We didn't even talk about that. That would normally be in the journalist notebook. Let's talk about Brady, but what do you got? Yeah, well, I'm just saying, I've been asked on a few radio shows this week, what do you think is going to happen with Tom, this or that? I don't know what's going to happen with him. So I'm just going to give you from my heart what I hope happens. I hope he retires because I just want to remember Tom as being the greatest of it all time.

And I thought I saw a lot of struggles this year for him with regard to off the field, on the field. I just, he's such a good person publicly that I just thought it took, it took some knocks. It took some hits. People are questioning his commitment. Yeah. His frustration showed. I just don't need to see Tom Brady like that. I want to remember all the Super Bowls. I want to remember the good side. So I'm just selfishly answering my own question. And my question then leads to what's next? Would I have an interest in Tom Brady as a GM somewhere? Right. Because it sounds like he's maybe played Maybe that one's played out in Tampa. No doubt.

And I thought, well, my first criteria would be, having watched him play this year, I would only have interest if it were this. If I was really looking to change culture, if I really wanted to add intangibles, if I really was struggling to get players on board with the plan and the vision. And that came, brought me back to one spot. I know where it is. Yeah. It's warm there.

I know. And they have slot machines and other creating crazy things there. that's the only place that I think it makes sense because it's a natural fit with Josh McDaniel, but they're struggling a little bit to build culture. They're struggling with all the things that I think Tom can help. Tom's peripheral is just not playing. So maybe you go there. Josh says, hey, for a year, I can make this work with him.

I already know his strengths. I know his weaknesses. He's going to help us sell our program to everybody in town and everybody in the league. So that to me might make sense. I just don't want to see him go out limping. I don't want to see him limp out and limp into retirement. Yeah. And so, you know, you had raised some questions during the year about how he was playing and it didn't look quite the same.

And, you know, I don't know if you thought in this last game it looked like he was a little shy of the pressure sometimes. Yes, I didn't like it. I just didn't want to see that. I didn't want to see it. I'm in denial. Yeah, exactly. And shoot, I'm old enough to remember Muhammad Ali's late fights and stuff. It's sad watching him against Trevor Burbick and these guys, he could have just absolutely.

absolutely dominated, you know, and he's going to do a corner. Larry Holmes is tagging him all of that. You know, I mean, it's just ugly. You know, that's not, but I don't feel like Tom Brady was like that this year. I think he was a little bit more, you know, a few years before that for Allie, where he could still get up and outlast Ernie Shavers, right? He might take a few shots on the chin, but in the end he could still do it. That is a great fight, by the way.

You should watch the 15th round of Ollie Shavers. It's one of my favorites. Mike's a little fight official. I go. I got. I got. I got. He's done to that stuff.

And I respect that. Well, along those lines, I should tell you some time about the time that I watched the George Foreman, uh, Tommy Morrison fight in my apartment with evil caneval. With evil caneval? He was in there watching with you? That's a story. Oh my gosh. I can't wait to hear that one.

That's unbelievable. You got to save that to where we got a lot of time. I'll save that. Yeah. That's awesome. It's unbelievable. I never knew them. met him. It was unbelievable how it happened. All of the sudden, I'm in my apartment. I'm like 24 years old.

Oh. I think that 23. Evil Caneval's in there. I couldn't believe it. I can't wait to hear this. So that'll be a good story sometimes. That's a tease for next week. Yeah, we're talking about Ali Shavers. So we're dating ourselves here, but I don't care. Um, so I think he did. I think, well, I do think Brady plays, though. I do think he plays. I think I like the weaponry there in Vegas for him. You got to get the offensive line set up. And I want a commitment from him that he's in, that we're not going to see pouty face. Sure, if it's a terrible. thing and somebody does something wrong, but we can't have that every week. Right. You've got to be leading with excitement. You've got to be excited to be there and really be all in and be rejuvenated or else we don't want it. And gain some weight and look a little healthier, okay? Eat some ice cream, not on the car.

Come over and eat with us, you know. Come into Mark Davis's sweet, you know, and have some of those hors d'oeuvres, whatever. Enjoy life. Enjoy life. We'll get to our picks. Last week, we were both three, two, one. How about that three, two, and one? I won with San Francisco, Jacksonville, and the Giants lost with Buffalo in Tampa,

which, God, that was bad, taking Tampa, pushed with Cincinnati. You won with San Francisco, Jacksonville, and Dallas, lost with Buffalo and Minnesota, and pushed with Cincinnati. So that's fine. I just like to be above 500 on that. I'll take that every time. This week, we have got four games. We got Jacksonville is an eight and a half point dog against Kansas City.

We got the Giants are a seven and a half point dog against Philly. We got Cincinnati, five point dog Buffalo. And Dallas, three and a half, San Francisco, Mr. Mueller, lead us off. Well, let's just start with the first game, Kansas City, Jacksonville. Let's go game by game. All right. I love to hear your explanations, by the way, especially after I give my piece, because you could go either way. And I know you went into this leaning on, there's a lot of points.

out there and that's that that that's he can see my notes i that's attractive to you yeah so i put points you like points i put at the top of this i put initial inclination is to take the road teams and the points but i might flip with kansas city in san francisco that's before randy sketched in his notes so now i can kind of i think the jm notebook you're standing on the sideline with the dm notebook and i'm i'm tall i'm tall i can look over mueller's shoulder i can see what's on his notepad i can see that you're planning to bring in a player for a workout Thursday i got I got the story. I got the story. So you wrote in here, Kansas City overwhelms Jacksonville. And that probably pulls me in your direction. It probably does. What do you think? I think Jacksonville won despite not playing good. I just don't think Trevor played good. I know he played good in the second half. That worries me a little bit. Not ready for prime time, two weeks in a row.

Not ready for prime time. And I think playing the Chargers is one thing, but playing Kansas City is a whole other deal. And I just, I think it could be overwhelming for them. You and I both know, because we went there for years, it is a really hard place to go win a game. And it's going to be worse than the playoffs. I just think Kansas City's rested. They've been playing well. I think it could be ugly early, and I don't know if they can stop the dam from breaking. Just I like the Chiefs. That's a hard place to write a story.

We had the roof cave in one time in the rainstorm. Remember that rainstorm? When the white caps were on the field? There's white caps on the field. And Warren Moon, I think, got his ribs. jammed up in that one, and the press box roof caved in. Water came in all over Bill Williamson's computer. Bill was on the beat at the time.

Just, you know, just delo. So it's hard to write a story there. It's hard to win a game there. Someday I'm going to tell you a story about that game. We don't have time for it today, but there is another story that I think is hysterical with regard to that. I call it the white cap game in Kansas City. So Dennis Erickson was our coach. It was awesome.

We made a laugh about it all the time. Yeah, it was a classic game. Classic game. So we're both going to take Kansas game. I think you're right. I like the fact that you said they're bad. They were bad against the charges. I think they were bad against Tennessee.

So we're on Kansas City and we're given the eight and a half. Giants at Philly, I'm going to take the seven and a half with Dayball. Brian DeBell, what do you think? I'm with you. I think the Giants, seven and a half is a lot. I think they're playing very well. I don't know that they can go and beat Philly, but I think it'll be respectable. I think it's going to be a close game.

Philly's been leaking oil for about a month now. don't know, but maybe they'll have it all together. But I know this, these interdivision games, the Giants will have no fear. They'll have no fear of playing Eagles. They've played them twice already. There won't be any secrets. Those have become knocked down dragouts. And I don't even care who's won the first two games.

The third one will be, you know, the thrill in Manila. It'll be the third one and we'll see how it shakes out, you know. Good 70s boxing reference. Good. Yep. I like that one, too. So I just like where the Giants are at. And some of those games last week that were division games, it was like, hey, Seattle's leading at halftime against the 49ers?

How is that even possible? Buffalo's in a knockdown dragout with Miami? Well, there's a little bit of commonality sometimes with those teams that really know each other. And they just played recently, too. Okay. I'm going to take Cincinnati and five at Buffalo. I understand it. I don't think that's crazy at all.

I think Buffalo has been in a funk for what. whatever reason. You can say it's the Mar Hamlin stuff. I thought they would play better since his recovery has been on track. Yeah. For whatever reason it hasn't happened. I think Josh Allen has regressed slightly into a little more

reckless Josh Allen. I see a guy that talking about quarterbacks who looks deep and doesn't see short. I would like to see him take some checkdowns and like Mike McCarthy used to say you can't go broke taking a profit. And Josh has risks a lot of throws, especially in the

red zone. That makes me nervous. But I just feel like they're going to bounce back. I think they're going to be good this week. I'm going to take them. So we're going to differ on that game. I'm going to take Buffalo and give you the five points. Yeah. One of the things about Kansas City or Cincinnati didn't look that hot either last week, but that was a division game against Baltimore too. They kind of have their number. They know how to play them. You know, all that familiarity between the teams. So this one, there is some familiarity. But I think if Vaughn Miller was playing for Buffalo, I would be on the bills. I think that would really be a problem for burrowing them in that game, but we'll see. I think that's a good one. All right. So the last one, I won't change my pick, even though

you're going to be right. That's unfair if I cheated the GM notebook. Why are you saying I'm going to be right? I don't know that. No, I will take the Dallas and the three and a half. I'm a little bit worried about it. I'm a little bit worried about it. You're nervous, huh? Just a little bit. I mean, I don't like that they had to play on Monday night, but I think there's talent on Dallas. Yep. And we'll just see, didn't you say last week that Dan Quinn

could have been holding back a little bit? I thought he might have for the last month. Yeah. And so you've got Brock Purdy here who were singing his praises and agreed. He's looked good. But no one has clean games all the time. Right.

And I don't think, I think it's way too premature to say he's the next this or that. And so we'll see in this game against a much more talented team than Seattle with pass rushers, Michael Parsons. Without a doubt. With all of that, I think it could potentially be a harder game. A harder game. I also liked Dak Prescott a little better in the Tampa game. You know, for as bad as they had looked before. and then he's had his downs this year.

Maybe he's going to have one this week. I don't know. I think Dallas played as good as they could, Mike. I agree with everything you're saying. I mean, I love the way Dallas. And we said going in, we thought Dallas was a better team than Tampa. Well, they played like it. The problem I have with Dallas is they just don't play like it all the time.

They're a better team than most of the teams they play, except maybe this week. I don't know they're a better team than the 49ers are. And that's what makes me nervous. I just can't trust Dallas to come back and do again. This has been their M.O. all season to let us down. Yep, and the minute you start, the minute they start to believe in themselves, Jerry Jones is talking about the Super Bowl or whatever, which I don't know that you this week, but in the past,

they've leaned into that and had a hard time doing it. Hard time. I just sort of liked, yeah, I liked what I saw last week as a reaction, almost like McCarthy sort of got him going again, and we'll see. But they lost to San Francisco in the playoffs last year. And this would be in Dallas, right? It was in Dallas, too. Yeah, yeah, it was in Dallas with better talents to throw to for deck.

Prescott, too. Those are fun games. Some good games this week. I'll be interested in to talk about our picks. Maybe we spend a little more time on what we did pick next week because these games, I think, in particular, you brought up some good points that I think we'll have fun discussing. Yeah, we will.

I'm sure when I'm 0.4 or whatever. That would mean you'd miss a couple, too. We'll see if cheating on the DM, cheat from the DM notebook. Always usually is taking a profit for me. Hey, everybody. You got anything else for any? No, I'm good. I think people are tired of us. Let's move on.

Hopefully people enjoy the weekend games. It's a great weekend for NFL football. I'm looking forward to it for sure. I am too. Well, hey, everybody, Mike Sando here for The Athletic. You can find me there. Randy Mueller, you can find at muellerfootball.com. Also at Randy Mueller underscore.

I'm Mike Sando at Sando, NFL on Twitter. We will talk to you next time. This was the Athletic Football Show.