The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: TNF QB recap, Raiders make changes and trade deadline reactions

Episode Date: November 4, 2023

Mike and Randy look back on quarterback play in TNF, along with their thoughts on the Raiders dismissal of HC Josh McDaniels and GM Dan Ziegler. Then the guys discuss their trade deadline reactions and Week 9 predictions.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast. Welcome, everybody, the Football GM podcast. Mike Sando here, along with Randy Mueller. And Randy, I did the math. Super Math whiz here. It only took me two years to get through algebra. Riding my bike in every morning in the dark in seventh grade. This is true.

This is true. So Mr. Crutcher was my algebra teacher. There is a point to this. Mr. Crutcher was my algebra teacher, okay? So he had a big pot belly. and we would meet in a counseling room before school, and he would show me how to, because I struggled so much with the algebra, right?

So he would chain smoke, cool cigarettes in this room that was not bigger than a bathroom at a normal person's house, not a palatial house. Like, I'm serious. Just crackling these things. And I would come out of there just smelling like complete smoke. So a little bit of a different era, Randy. I don't think that would fly.

I don't think that would fly. But anyway, the math, did the math, and after the Monday night game, we will be exactly 50% through with the NFL season. It's a little weird now with 17 games, 18 weeks, but we will, exactly half the games will have been played. So, congratulations, we made it. Well, my math is not as good as yours, and I still struggle with the 17 game schedule. I can never reel off.

Well, if they're nine and seven, well, nine and seven doesn't work anymore, you know. So I'm struggling to get through that. But having said that, I'll tell you a quick story as well. We were talking about our company Slack before we got on the air here today. And it reminds me of I spent 20 years with the Seahawks. And part of that last few years was when Paul Allen took over the team, right? And so we went from really not knowing a ton about communicating with the rest of the world to like being on the cutting edge of everything.

And I remember getting an email, and this is when email was just starting out from Bob Witsitt, our club president. And he said, he forwarded me a message from Paul Allen. And it's Paul Allen talking to me now on email saying, does Randy know what reply means? This is when that was brand new. Yeah, this is when, I know what email was.

I didn't even understand it. And so, well, yeah, it was new. Yeah, Bob came down and he said, did you get my email? And I said, yeah. He said, Paul would like you to reply when he saves you emails. This is a guy that changed the world and how we know it. And my first correspondence was him was, does he know how to reply? That is hilarious. I'm making strides. I'm not up on Slack yet where I should be, but I'm making strides. I'm only 60, not 80. I'll get there. I promise you. That ain't even that long ago, really. I was covering the team back then. In fact, I remember John Clayton was kind of my mentor. He would cover the Seahawks before I did, came onto the beat. And I can remember, you know, being younger than John, I would, you know, to me, like, when email came out, it was great.

I was like emailing agents and stuff. John's like, you can't do that. This is a relationship business, man. You've got to talk to people on the phone. You can't be sent an email. And then, of course, for the next 15 years, I was John's tech support guy. You couldn't figure out anything. You know, and I would have to tell them how to do everything.

I don't mean, I mean that loving. Yeah, I know. I hear you. Rest in peace. But I mean, technological stuff, man, he couldn't do it at all. So, yes. All right. We're getting there.

We're getting there. It's 2023. It is. And, you know, we're watching the NFL Sunday ticket now streaming that on YouTube. We had some glitches last week. That was kind of interesting. I thought it was only me, but it was going a little bit slower. And there was a story today by Richard Dyche, who does the sports media for

today saying it was a big deal apparently that there was buffering going on. People couldn't see the pictures. Well, I thought it was me. I thought it was mine. So we'll see how that goes. You watched on Amazon last night again? I did. And I haven't figured out how to enjoy it yet. You know what I think of the help we get along the way of watching Thursday Night game from the announcers. Right. And it's all I can do to suffer through it and just watch the game. Because I really enjoy the announcers most of the time. But that has become so elementary and so almost depressing to hear that type of analysts, analysts talk.

And now I love the pregame. I love the post game. I love all those guys. That's great on the desk. Those guys are great. Those guys are great. But the game analysis is like third, Ned the third grade reader. I mean, come on.

And it's just not credible. So it's hard for me. But yes, I watched it. Sorry. I got done. Yeah, you know, we can do a little media criticism because to me, I mean, Al Michael's is one of the giants of the game, but he can't get excited about this stuff's beneath him now almost. Like, he can't get excited about it. I'm sorry. He got up tight last, he got uptight last night that

the game got extended. I'm thinking, what? Where's he going? What's he got to do? He couldn't have a flight. It was too late for a flight. So dinner, late dinner? This isn't past his bedtime. So, you know, yeah, I don't get it. He's like, they go flag on the plane. He's like, yeah, tell me about it. Yeah, big surprise there. Shoot, we got to stay here another five minutes. Yeah, holy mackerel. Sorry to inconvenience you, Al. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we have been talking about, you know, eras and coming and going, and we can see an era right there that's kind of in the middle. So as for the game itself, those Pittsburgh Steelers are going to somehow win 10 games this year.

And no one's going to be happy about it in Pittsburgh because it's not going to be pretty and all of that. But let's get to this game, Randy. You've been pretty high on Kenny Pickett coming into the league. You liked him as a first round pitch. you endorsed him, said, hey, even as a top 10 pick, you'd be okay. At the same time, pretty skeptical of Will Levis coming out. And I have to laugh a little bit because fans, media, shoot owners probably. You know this better than anybody.

They want to reassess these things after every pass, after every series, after every game. There's a victory lap coming. There's no doubt about that. Oh, and the victory laps are short-lived week to week. Like all of a sudden, you look like a genius one week. You're an idiot the next week. to just sort of ride through the waves here. Don't, don't overreact to too much. But that being said, we do have a little bit of a body of work for Pickett, and I would think I'm not overstating

things to say that it's been a little underwhelming for most folks. And then Levis here in a very short amount of two games is probably produced better than any of us would have expected, even people that were high on him. So let's make some sense of this. Let's start, let's just start with Will Levis. He's the fresh one. Your concerns come. out what you've seen in two games in your recalibration. I hear everything you're saying. I don't disagree with any of that. I do think there are a lot of arrows and bouquets coming depending on what hour of the day it is for the same for the same asset per se. But you're right. We have some evidence now that supports that Will Levis is playing a little better than than I ever saw on tape for sure.

Let's don't make any bones about it. He's big. He's strong. He got a really strong arm. He's athletic. A lot of the same qualities that Titan fans probably should kind of feel familiar with because they had the same guy in Jake Locker about eight, nine years ago. You know, they drafted him high. You remember the quarterback that came out of Washington with great aspirations as well. Didn't work out great for him. I just think in this case, he has given them a shot in the arm that I wouldn't dispute. I think it's been an offense that's been stagnant for a couple years now with all due respect King Henry. I just think we have to see yet him process information enough to sustain through four quarters. We saw a little bit of what happens at the end of the game when you have to read

coverage and throw where they're not with the interception that ended the game. I think the problem I have in a lot of cases with these young quarterbacks is their offense can scheme only so many ways of predetermining a target for them and having them get the ball to them. Then eventually they have to process the information from the pocket themselves. And that's where I still struggle a little bit with Levis. I think he's a good kid. I see some of the physical skills that everybody does. Am I ready to anoint him as the leader of the Titans? No, but I'll be the first to say he's played better in these two games than I saw him at any point in his college career. Yeah. And even on the late interception, when you've got basically, you're basically, it's not quite Hail Mary,

but you're super, you've got basically two plays and they're very low odds that you're going to score. I like the fact that he's firing in there rather than the checkdown to, as the clock runs out, we completed a pass and were at the eight yard line. I like the fact that he was at least a little bit fearless, right? I mean, he was taking shots down there when, look, you've got to roll the dice a little bit at the end of the game, right? You need a touchdown. Eventually you do. There's no doubt.

I think in the case of the one dropped interception and the legitimate interception, maybe his options were limited. So I hear it. I see it. I'm not going to dame the kid for getting his team down there to start with. I mean, he made a couple nice throws and got him down there. So I'm not beating up on Will Levis. I get it. I just think I'd like to have a little body of work, although the evidence has been positive without a doubt. Yeah, it's been better than we thought. So now let's consider Pickett a little bit. It's funny because he's got a bunch of these fourth quarter comeback victories that are kind of a little bit in, you know, if you played better the rest of the game, maybe you wouldn't need those, but he's had some of those. And I'm sure you saw the note, Randy,

that Pittsburgh's been outgained in every game this season, but still has a winning record, which is unprecedented through eight games of the season. Think of that. That's hard to do eight games in a row. And they have a pretty good defense. It's not like they're allowing a bunch of yards every week. But Pickett also seemed to kind of miss some throws, too. I don't know if it was a rib injury, but there's a couple of those high third down pass where you're like, man, that's an unusual type of a miss in the NFL. Just kind of curious where you're at with him. Still feel the same as he did with him coming out. Would you want to have him as your quarterback? Well, I definitely would. I'm kind of a glass half full on Pickett, as you mentioned,

and I don't dispute any of your numbers. I think really the numbers that jump out at me, and you're correct in that he did miss a couple good throws. I think they are explainable. Sometimes when these quarterbacks fundamentally get their bottom half out of sorts with their upper half balls seem to fly around and I think that's what happened to him more than anything. He sunk his lower body and his upper body's throwing high on more than one occasion. So I get it. And I'm not here to be a Pickett apologist. I think Pickett has the difference between him and Levis for me. I think Pickett has the physical intangibles, but I also think he has the intangible part, the processing part that I've seen an offensive scheme at the NFL level can

embarrassed the best of them. And I don't think much of this scheme with the Steelers' offense at all. We hear all the criticism of Matt Canada, their offensive coordinator. You and I talked about this, Mike, two years ago, that this scheme and this system was problematic, right, that it wasn't going to work. I mean, this Steeler offense has yet to produce a 400-yard offensive game under Canada. So I think until last night, and I saw signs of this last night, where they actually ran the ball behind an offensive side on the right side with a new tight end, a new right tackle that can actually get push. I saw some actually usage of the skill set which were drafted. I think Deonti Johnson coming back is a big deal. But here's the kicker for me. Deontay Johnson

came back, put up big numbers. George Pickens was non-existent. And this to me is evidence of a system that can get it to a particular player on a schemed up route in a predetermined fashion. But when you do have to process and have a system that reading coverages takes you to where it goes, the ball gets spread around a little bit. And the numbers come in for two or three different receivers, not just one. So I think they made a conscious effort to get Deonti Johnson involved. Not so much. You can't do that with every player as we find out around the league.

so the system has to take you there. So I think all of their issues in the passing game are all because everything is predetermined and play called rather than dictated by the defense and what it gives you, which allows the quarterback to have a lot more answers. And I think once a play is called and a quarterback runs that play, if it's not there, he's got to grounded or do something silly and then come back and call another play. That's what happens in college. That's what college offenses do.

they call plays and you get 80 plays a game so you don't have to adjust on the fly NFL teams have to adjust on the fly and they can't wait between series they can't wait till half time you might get as we've seen many times Mike 55 plays in a game the system has to allow for that and your quarterbacks have to process on the fly and most of the time it's post snap I just don't know that this stealer offensive system is a post snap processing type setup and therefore I don't know that it's sustainable and I think we can explain why they have you know been outgained in every game to this season because of it. It's interesting you say that because Matt Canada was in the college ranks from 1994

until 2018 when he was at Maryland. And I think he overlapped Mike Tomlin's son there, a wide receiver there, which I want to bring it back onto Tomlin because, look, Mike Tomlin is possibly on his way to a Hall of Fame coaching career. I mean, he's never had a losing record as the coach of the Steelers. I love so many things about Mike Tomlin. I think he's great with his messaging, super intentional. Like, he's exactly what I would want to have in a head coach, except for this part.

I just feel like, we've seen this with a lot of coaches over the years, but you, I don't know if it's a, why can't he see what seems obvious from the outside? How long do they go with this? It seems like it's going to come to a head here. they're going to have to make a change, or do they not? Are they just going to keep staying the course? You know, when Tomlin was asked about, Tomlin was asked earlier, maybe a week or two ago, about specifically the first 15 plays of a game, the so-called scripted plays, and they were by far the worst in the league, production-wise. And he sort of brought up a couple of plays as examples where, hey, the scheme worked really well,

and this guy, the ball was thrown out of bounds, or we would have had a big player, or this guy missed a protection, or we would have done that. And he was kind of defending his coordinator, but for how long can you go on without production? Well, I think, yeah. What is this telling us about Tomlin? I mean, is this a flaw here? If he has a fault, he's fiercely loyal, and I understand it. I get it.

I wouldn't be for making changes during the season either. The other thing, when you talk about Canada and his relationship with Tomlin, Matt Canada served as the OC for the Pittsburgh University of Pittsburgh back a few years ago. so they share the same building. So I'm sure there was a relationship that started back then. 2016. Yeah. I think this system on offense has to change for them to move forward.

And I think it will. I just think Mike is being Mike and in all the things that we love about him. He's fiercely loyal, like I said. And I think he's going to stick with him. He's going to make every reason try to make sense for fans that are calling. Even your 15 plays last night, you know, they took the ball and ran it right down the field. first time all the year that they've scored on the opening possession. So that happens occasionally, but I don't think this is a long-range solution for really Kenny Pickett's career. That would be more

what I'm, you know, accustomed to. And I know there was some familiarity between Pickett and Matt Canada because of that PICT connection. But at some point, we need to advance the offense. And we need to develop a little bit of an identity. They just have no identity. We like to think their Steelers are tough, ground and pound, run, they don't do that. They run, they run, you know, laterally more than they run north and south. So I just think they're going to have to make changes before they develop. So who has that conversation with Mike Tomlin, right? Because Mike Tomlin is the king of that kingdom, right? I mean, he's without a doubt. It won't be Omar Khan. Yeah, it won't be Omar. Khan's not going in there and saying, listen, here's what we got to do. You always talk about

tough conversations and buildings. Kevin Colbert was there for a long time. Obviously, the Rooney's have a great history. But Dan Rooney's. not there anymore. You know, and Omar Khan is in a different position in relation to Tomlin than some other GMs might be. So that's kind of interesting, isn't it? I think it's really hard, yeah. I think it's a great point, and I do think it's problematic.

I love Omar. Omar worked for us in New Orleans when I was there. He's a cap guy. He's an administrative guy. He's not going to challenge Mike on any of this kind of stuff. So I don't know who has that conversation with him. Maybe they reel in Kevin for a couple weeks of consulting at the end of the season. I know Kevin still is around the area a lot and is still a loyal, stealer, you know,

employee per se for life. So maybe that's one they have to do. Maybe that's one they just don't believe in heaven. They're going to let Mike sink or swim with this scheme. I think Mike will come to his senses and be able to figure out the best path going forward. I really do. So this may be a conversation that has already happened in Mike's mind. he just can't pull the trigger on it now.

Yeah, and it's, they're into the third season. It's not like it's been five years, but it seems like it's been quite a few years of just disappointing, unfulfilling offense there, you know, whether it was the end of the Ben Rotherstberger era where you sort of had to, remember, they just threw the ball in one second every play because he didn't want to get hit anymore. And that gave you some limitations. We've got plenty of evidence. I don't think we need much more body work, so I don't know.

Again, I'm not for making changes during the season either because that, creates a whole other set of problems. But let's just see what shakes out at the end of this. Because I think the Steelers are a playoff team, and they're going to be in the playoffs again. So figure that one out. That's an awkward one, too. We're going to be in the playoffs, and we're going to have to let somebody go. Yeah, interesting.

Well, speaking of making changes during the season, the Raiders on Tuesday night, you know, not probably a surprise that there were going to be some changes coming with the Raiders. But, man, head coach, Josh McDaniels, GM, Dave Ziegler, out on a short week for the Raiders coming off of a really disappointing loss to the Lions and really a disappointing season plus, but especially recently. I mean, my gosh, they're averaging 14 points a game on offense. You're supposed to be the guru McDaniels is as the offensive coach. What was your just kind of reaction take on this move? Well, I was surprised it happened now. I was surprised it happened the night after the trade deadline window closed. Just all the above. I think I'm not surprised that it happened. For me,

this marriage was always how it was going to end was going to be when not if it just didn't seem like it was going well there is a long trail of evidence that these decision makers probably I don't want to say we're over their head because they're both good football guys I'm positive of that but sometimes the team building aspect doesn't get the attention outside of our show anyway and I think that's probably where the biggest debate came was the decisions they made in in building their team. I know Josh's area of expertise is the offense, and like you said, it doesn't help when your offense absolutely stinks, but they made some questionable decisions after they had made some original decisions. Don't forget, they signed Derek Carr. They signed Darren Waller. They signed

Hunter Renfro. The only one they signed that's really contributing now is Crosby, the defensive lineman. So these are the same guys that signed these guys, and they jettison two of the three, and the third one's on the bench in the witness protection program in Hunter Renfro. So it's a struggle. Running these teams is hard. I just think the team building aspect that they turned their back on for me was both sides of the ball on the offensive line and the defensive line. They never fixed it. And that was going to be problematic for either side at some points, mainly and on a consistent basis for the offense, because they really struggled to find any continuity and protect the passer. So I think when you take over a team like this, and I had this happen

to me when I went to New Orleans in 2000, I give credit to Mike Ditkin and Bill Kuh Herrick in that we had a pretty good offensive line and we had a very good defensive line. So it was easier for me to put the pieces together around that. What we saw Josh McDaniels and Ziegler do is the first move they made was to go give a one and a two for a receiver in Devante Adams. From a team building standpoint, that would have been last in line for my boxes to be checked. I would have made sure we had solid fronts on both sides. And I just don't know that you can add bells and whistles without the meat and potatoes. And really, that's what has been problematic for me.

They haven't developed players either. And I say that, that they haven't drafted big guys. This year they drafted a defensive end in the first round, the Wilson kid from Texas Tech, who I think they misused to this point. I hear people talk about him as an edge player, edge player. I thought he was further from an edge player than any other guy in the drafts, say Jalen Carter, but he's not an edge player. For me, he's a three, four, five technique that can eat up innings as a middle reliever and keep guys off the linebackers. They've tried to use him on the

edge. He's not a pass rusher. That's not where his strengths and his skill set lies. So it's a combination of, for me, of faulty team building, obviously screwing up the quarterback position pretty bad and then not using the players you've drafted in the way that maybe the vision is the same for those players' skill sets. So there's a lot there to process and digest, but I think it was going to come to an end sooner than later because it seemed to me like they got a lot of pushback in the locker room. Culture was not the best. And because I think guys that come from New England now are viewed with more skepticism than, hey, these guys know what they're doing, just because of the record of the people that have spun off.

Yeah. So now when you hear that we're hiring New England guys, you roll your eyes almost. Unless they're bringing Tom Brady to play quarterback, it just hasn't worked. And that happened in Tampa. That's the only place that's really worked. It's amazing. Since Tom Brady left the Patriots, his credentials just keep looking better and better. And everyone else that was around them looked a little not as good, you know?

All these guys, you know, that's been the main takeaway with him leaving. Mark Davis, owner of the Raiders, son of the legendary Al Davis, spoke with our Tashon Reed for a really good story in the athletic. I thought that was a great get for Tachon to get the owner on the night of this thing. It was impressive. And it was very good. And I thought Mark Davis said a couple of interesting things. One, he admitted he kind of went into past coaching searches with a leading candidate in mind. He had to have John Gruden.

He had to have Josh McDaniels. So he kind of started these. things at the finish line, which, by the way, brings a whole lot of other stuff back into play for me because they were criticized with that, with the Rooney Rule and all that, that they were not really serious about other candidates. So I kind of put that off to the side in a different ledger to be revisited when it comes down to hiring practices and the rules of those. But let's just stick with this on the Raiders. So he said he wanted to get McDaniels. And then because Josh insisted on having Dave Ziegler, as his GM, he kind of went along with that

too. He said, and Davis said this time, quote, I don't really have anybody in mind that would potentially prejudice my thinking. My thought process is wide open. He also said if Ziegler had not come aboard as GM, there was a good chance that Champ Kelly, who he did hire his assistant GM, and is now the interim GM, would have gotten the job. So to me, this is, you know, troubling in one way if you're, you know, looking at it, but it's also possibly encouraging from a long-term rateer standpoint. he's acknowledged bad process, which to me, kind of the first step of this is admitting you have a problem, right? I wonder if there is growth here through these processes and now maybe they actually will have a decent process and maybe end up have a better chance to get better people.

I don't know. What do you think? Well, time will tell. There's a lot to unpack there. I thought you're right. The interview that the athletic was able to obtain through Tashon is really good. It's great information that I think our readers would enjoy and I'd recommend they go to it. I think that the comments that Mark Davis made are still alarming to me in that if that were true and if he already had his mind made up, that tells me there was no criteria and there was no process. So hopefully, and I know this for a fact, he has surrounded himself with people that, in my

opinion, are fairly agenda-based in that they have their own ideas. And Mark, you know, may or may not listen to him. but nevertheless, they're in his ear. And so many things get in the way when you're trying to fill agendas of people that are involved in the process, that it's a struggle. It's seldom that the best person ever gets that job. I think he needs to examine that process and clear out the people in his ear. And if he's truly going to be open-minded, set a criteria for what you want. For me, the new Raider GM, if you don't hire someone that has a proven track record of rebuilding a franchise, I think it's,

It's idiotic. I'll be honest with you. It's not a training ground for trial and error, and that's what they just found out. He's been through, I don't know how many head coaches. I think I saw the other day like six and four GMs. And, I mean, it's been a revolving door. Let's hire somebody that has a track record of rebuilding teams. And I don't care, you know, much about anything else until that happens.

That person then should be the one and only guy in Mark Davis's ear. Not anybody else from a search committee or has been around the office and has worked there in the past, you've got to eliminate all that noise. That's just my opinion. And I think those people are out there. And I think unless he hires the right football czar, I think the coach is going to be, hiring is going to be problematic as well. He needs somebody in his ear of somebody that's been through it and gets it, in my opinion. Yeah. So you're talking about like he's had these guys like Ken Herock or, you know, all these guys that used to work there were involved in advising. It wasn't the old tight end involved.

escaping me. I don't know. It could be. I mean, Dave Casper. Yeah. No, no, it wasn't Casper. It was another guy. I can't remember.

But he had these guys, these names were coming up that were advising him, I think, in the past. So. It's embarrassing. Yeah. Like remnants of the old, you know, Al Davis era. So be interesting to see what they do there. I, you know, I don't know. Maybe every time that there's not, maybe when these things happen, you know,

There's kind of a sigh of relief in the building. I thought the sigh of the relief was louder than normal after this one. I don't know about you. Could be. Could very well be. I know some people in there too. And yeah, it's been a circus. There's no doubt.

And nobody wants to put on their resume that they worked for a circus when they've been in the NFL their whole life. So hopefully they get it right. And I think it's got to start, though, that Mark Davis has to build a clear and concise criteria for what he wants. And then that has to be aligned with the people. that he hires. All right. Trade deadline passed.

I just put together a little section here. I just called it rapid fire trade reactions. Let's go through some of these. We've talked about a couple of them, just you and I this week. But I just listed them out here. Let's go through them before we get to the GM notebook and before we get to the picks and all of that. Chicago gets Montez Sweat from Washington for a second rounder in 2024.

I've seen your notes you wrote not positive reviews. What do you got? Well, I'll just say it's team building almost malpractice to do what they did, in my opinion, to give away a second round pick that's going to be very high for a player that's going to be a free agent who may or may not resign with you on a bad team that now he gets to interview you to see if he does resign with you and not have a contract in place. So he's not guaranteed to be part of the future. I just think that's crazy.

And you can say, well, he might sign him to a deal here soon. The fact is you've lost all your leverage. You gave a second round pick for this guy. His agent, him, they know you're behind the eight ball now. They've heard the criticisms of this. So all the leverage goes into their benefit. They can sign him to a big money deal any day now. But they probably could have signed him to the same big money deal in March when free agency opened.

And people say, well, I don't know if he'd have gone to Chicago. Here's what I know for sure in the NFL. If you pay enough money, the players are coming. That is a fact. So if you want to overpay, wait till it's in March, overpay then and he's coming. So I just, it's the best. Yeah. Yeah.

Keep and keep the pick. So it doesn't really make sense to me. And I don't understand it. I don't really need an explanation from their side. I've been there. I've done this. I've made deals in this forum. And if it isn't accompanied by a contract, it just doesn't make sense.

I was laughing because I watched the press conference of him there in Chicago. And I was really impressed by how you can. Are you talking about Ryan Poles? No, Montez Sweat. I was really impressed by how he handled it. And at one point, one of the reporters asked about, used the phrase over a barrel, hey, you got the team over a barrel here now. And I don't know if he was really even familiar with that saying, but he rolled with it pretty good.

You know, he showed some good maturity there in not just absolutely leading in. But when the reporters were asking that question, dovetails with what you were saying, about the way that it is. I kind of saw this as, you know, a little bit of a potential sinking ship there. You know, you've got, you've got a team president walking around taking detailed notes, and it's not looking good. And if there's one thing, though, that Matt Iberfluse there can sort of hang his add-on, potentially, to me, it's that since he took over the defense, it's been better.

Just statistically, the first four games of the year, they were 31st on defense EPA per play. and they're 10th since then. So this is, to me, a GM throwing a little bit of a lifeline to his coach saying, Matt, I realize this ship is sinking. It's desperate. If there's one thing that's a life preserver for you, it could be continued strides on defense. You know, I took, here's a guy for you. So here we go.

But that's not team building, right? That's fire putting out. That's throwing water out of the boat. Two different things. Well, I do agree with you. I think defense has gotten much better and especially against a run. Like you say, their numbers have backed up. up trending in a positive direction. I also don't think it's, you can just sweep this under the rug.

The second assistant coach was relieved of his duties this week based on some, you know, bad acting within the own office. And any time, and this is the second time this has happened, like I said, where they had to involve HR. Now, I cannot remember in my 35 years ever having to let a coach go and having HR involved. And I love the HR department. Don't get me wrong. I get it. It is not involved in these football decisions ever.

And they have been involved in these football decisions twice. So I think you're right. Kevin Warren, their new president, has some issues or has some issues to sort out. He may be taking notes. That's great. But he's going to have some tough decisions to make at the end of it. There's a lot of evidence that this is not going in the right direction and that Kevin may have to step in.

And I've known Kevin for a long time, and I also know he's a good person and very qualified for the job. So it'll be interesting to see how this works out. I think when we were talking before, you'd said there's just some signs of chaos there, right? With some of this stuff. So, okay, Seattle gets Leonard Williams from the Giants for 2,024 Second and a 2025 fifth. What do you think? I like it.

I think it's a good move for Seattle. I think Seattle has struggled the last couple of years to get players to fit what Pete wants to do on defense. I think that's been a struggle. I mean, look for a year ago like a Puna Ford, who's six foot tall, they're trying to play him at five technique along the defensive front. It just doesn't work. And it's been problematic. You know, their defense hasn't been very good. Now it's pretty good, actually. They've played better on defense. They're not taken gassed, and haven't been gaffed against a run. I like this move for fit because of flexibility that Leonard William gives him. I like his intangibles.

I totally get why they made this move. And we'll talk about Chase Young. He may be a better pass rusher. Chase Young, I'm referring to. But Leonard Williams fits best with what Seattle wants to do and gives them a big body that they just haven't had. So I like it. I think it's a good move for Seattle. And the fact that they gave a third round pick, compensation for me is reasonable.

And he can be termed a rental. Even if they don't sign him, they gave a second and a fifth for him. If they don't re-sign him, there's a reasonable chance that they would get a third back as a compensatory pick. So I like the compensation. I don't know that he's a great player, but he fits good with them, and so it makes sense. Yeah, I like that for them too, especially after they got run on by Cleveland, and now they're going to go to Baltimore and they're going to want to slug it out. I think they've done a nice job with some of the rest of the defense probably is much improved.

So that does help them. I was noticing in looking at the moves they made it at a piece this week, just kind of looking at GM moves at the deadline, that it's funny, if you look at Seattle's acquisitions, some of their bigger off-seasoned acquisitions, the Percy Harvins, Jamal Adams, maybe you put Jimmy Graham in there to a lesser extent, didn't work out as well.

Some of these in-season ones where you're really looking for a quick fix, got him Dwayne Brown, got him, quandary digs, guys who've stayed a long time. So we'll see if Leonard Williams fits into that bucket. He's 29, you know, but don't you think, some of those guy like a defensive, do you see him as having a short prime left? Or do you think that what's your experience with a defensive line and kind of fitting his profile? Do you get three

good years out of him or what? Well, I would think you get two or three good years based on the fact that he is still a productive player and you can't find these guys. I'm telling you, you might go through two or three drafts and not find a guy with this guy's size and skill set. So the supply and demand tells me he'll last three more years. And at age 29, I'm sure there's some athleticism that will dwindle fast, but Pete Carroll doesn't care about three and four years from now, and I don't blame him. These guys have done a really good job with these last trade deadline acquisitions, like you mentioned. And I think it's because they have conviction, they have confidence, they're not worried about their job. So kudos to ownership,

allowing them the rope to make these deals. And they've worked out for the most part. Yeah, not bad. So 49ers within the division do get Chase Young from Washington for a 2024 third. Somebody I know who writes for the athletic, it used to be a general manager, had said probably it would be a third round pick for Chase Young when it comes down. Yet, I think this deal was perceived sort of by the public as, oh my gosh, you got Chase Young for only a third. Let's fill that gap. And then what do you think about the fit? Because I know you like it. You think he's going to do well. Yeah, I think just as I was happy with the fit, Leonard Williams gives the Seahawk defense, I think Chase Young gives the similar type setup with San Francisco.

they play and needed a different role. This deal makes sense for San Francisco because of the fit. He, to me, was the best pass rusher on the market with Danelle Hunter not getting traded and really not being on the market. I think Chase Young made sense. I think getting him out of Washington makes sense. He may not be the all-around player that some of these guys are, but you're going to see, I think, a guy on the other end of the book-in defensive line.

And now with Nick Bosa, he's going to get single-blocked all the time. he's never going to have it had it so good since he left Ohio State who when guess what his other defensive end was Nick Boza there too so they have a little history together I like the idea of given Chase Young half a season with a winning team to trill to really set and reset his market value for being a free agent once again I think these good teams that add these rentals at least for now we'd have to terminate a rental I like it because they're trying to get better they're trying to double down. It makes much more sense than a bad team like Chicago, adding a rental that you may not even have a year from now. So I like this for the 49ers. I think 49ers defense, we talked a little

bit about this last week. I think, Mike, has been leaking oil. They've given up 400 yards the last couple weeks. They have not pressured to pass. So I think they're 21st in league on getting off the field on third downs. So the numbers are not trending good. So they needed to stop this flow of people running the ball down their throat and really been able to throw it as well. Joe Burrow tore them apart last week. So I like this Chase Young move for the 49ers. And again, that's another team that's made its hay by having conviction and confidence in making these deals. And I think this will be another example of it. You know what came to my mind, Randy? So, uh, Cowshiannon didn't seem too pleased with Steve Wilkes, did he? No, I would say not, not to this point. Yes, there's been some

underachieving. Yeah. Um, you know, after that Minnesota game, you know, he kind of said, publicly what maybe you'd say privately, in my opinion. It's just kind of interesting to me with the expectation. So, hi, hey, we got you this piece. So what if Chase Young just isn't that great and the defense isn't as good? That's the interesting component to me. There's some pressure now. This better be a good defense.

They come back from the buy. It better start going in the right direction, huh? Well, I think you're right. I think this does add pressure to Steve Wilkes's future. but at the same time, I think Kyle wants to win more than anything, and I know John Lynch does as well. So I think they make this move to make their defense better, not to send any other messages. Oh, no. But I do think that's in the back of their mind, is have we got the right guy?

And I know Steve, I've known him for a long time. I think they've got to do some things better on defense for that job to be his long term, for sure. Okay. Buffalo gets for Sewell-Douglas and a 2024-5th from Green Bay for a 2024-3. third. I love the laundering of these picks. When they put them on, they add a pick in, get one back. We can't figure out, you know, you got to, I got to go back to that algebra tutoring session with the crackling cool cigarettes going to try to figure out exactly how they came out with it. But in any event, the bills get a defensive piece. Do they do enough? Well, I think anything they did is welcome. That defense has been devastated by injuries.

I don't think Rassoul Douglas moves the meter for me and that they're going to be able to stop people. but he gives them a chance. They have not been able to cover people. But to me, the more important issue was that front seven, and they didn't address that. I thought it was interesting the day after the trade deadline that they signed off the street, Linville Joseph, a 35-year-old defensive tackle, who hadn't been anywhere. And that tells me that they knew they didn't do enough. I thought they would make a concerted effort for a bigger, interior guy.

It didn't happen. And I think for that reason, Buffalo's defense for me, this next month or two is starting to look problematic. And again, I know Sean McDermott is a good coach. He runs the defense now. He's going to try to do some more aggressive things to make up for a lack of personnel. I think Rasul Douglas gives him that chance to cover a little more so that they can maybe come after people a little bit. Well, I do have one question for you. To answer your question, no, I don't think they did enough. But where in the witness protection program is Vaughn Miller been hiding out because I haven't heard or seen anything from him. Tell me about that one.

Here's what I think about Von Miller. I think that obviously he's old and he's coming off of a bad injury, but ideally he would be somebody that would be a bell and whistle on an already great defense, that somebody you would be sort of bringing along from his injury. And then when we got to go, we put the gas pedal down and get the most out of him. The problem is because of those other issues on the defense, they need more from him than I think he can give at this stage of his career. What do you think about that? Well, I'd be happy if he gave anything. I saw him play in the London game about 10 plays and made an appearance that was really non-effective in a way.

And I haven't heard he heard from him since. So maybe he's not healthy yet. I get it. But at some point, he's going to have to earn some of that money that they paid him as well. And not that he can help them on the inside because that's where they lose Milano. They lose the inside players. Now, Oliver's back. But they've got to find a way to hold the point of attack a little better.

and now you understand that's not Vaughn the Von Miller's game. So let's just pretend that I'm not talking about cap implications or any of that. So did they need to do what Seattle did? Get Leonard Williams. I think that the phone lines would work really well between the Giants and the bills. Since Joe Shane was in Buffalo all those years before, is that the type of move you're saying that a Buffalo should have made?

Give up some real draft capital. Get a Leonard Williams in. there. And now we'd feel like we steady the ship up front. Would that have been a good fit or is, am I off base? 100%. It's a move they probably should have made, especially because guess who's picking up Leonard Williams' contract? So there has no cap-out implications. The giants are willing to pay at all. So it makes sense that they couldn't, you know, get involved in that. I don't know. Maybe Joe just had a had an inkling to send him west and the kid, you know, is a USC guy. Maybe the passion of Pete carried the day there in that it's a former USC guy, I don't know,

but I would think Leonard Williams would fit in a lot of places, but surely in Buffalo, especially with their needs currently. And we're going to get to that. I peaked peaking at the GM notebook, though, you know, possibly they gave him some options, you know, out of where he wanted to go, and that could be part of this equation too. So Seattle could have been committed a bigger draw for him for whatever reason, and that could be why he's headed there. All right, Minnesota gets Josh Dobbs in a 2024 conditional seventh from Minnesota for a 2024-6.

What the heck? I mean, Josh Dobbs' season could be a book. I mean, he starts with Cleveland. He goes to Arizona. He's a starter. It does probably better than people thought. And now he's starting in Minnesota things Josh Dobbs never could have imagined like six months ago that he'd be a starting quarterback for two different teams.

And they wouldn't be the Browns. The Browns wouldn't be one of them. think of this? Well, it's especially something that Dobbs didn't take into account was the fact that he was going to get benched one day and traded the next day. So maybe Kevin O'Connell and the Vikings hadn't seen the papers yet from the following day, but this is one of those trades for a Starbucks. We've talked about it before where you send in a player and a pick for another pick in return. Really, it's a waiver claim dressed up. That's what it is. I don't think, and I could be totally wrong, I don't think the Vikings are getting Josh Dobbs to be their starting quarterback. I think they're getting in,

because one, he's really smart. He can learn a system in no time. He's proved to do that. He's done it twice the last 12 months. He did it in Tennessee. Actually, he did it in Cleveland, and now he did it in Arizona, three times the last 12 months.

So I think that is a good get if all else fails in Minnesota at the quarterback position. But I don't think Dobbs moves the meter. I don't think he's anywhere near the level of Kirk Cousins. I like the kid. I think his story is amazing.

It is a great book someday. But I think Minnesota is going to struggle to replace cousins, and I don't see this being much more than a depth pickup for right now. So this to you is like the 2005 Miami Dolphins picking up Cleo Lemon during the year, and then having them kind of be in the background and maybe be a backup. Second or third guy, yeah, maybe you develop in the offseason to move up one mark on the food chain. That's about it. I'm laughing about that because I went back and was looking at all the October trades,

and I saw, oh, there's one for Mueller in there. has a mid-season quarterback moves. They just don't happen. I mean, it's very uncommon. So unless it's a backup. And so that's how you see that. We were really struggling. And I can see the similarities with Minnesota,

really struggling at the position once you lose your starter. Not a lot of options out there. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm just saying let's temper our expectations of what Dobbs might be able to bring to the table. So there were three other trades that any of these, notable to you, Atlanta getting Contavia Street, Jacksonville gets Ezra Cleveland, Detroit gets Donovan People's Jones. Anything on any of those that moves the needle or not really for you? Well, the Donovan People's Jones gets my attention,

only because it's not like Cleveland is a fun on-turf, spread it around highfalutant offense, right? So they're kind of getting him, he's escaping Cleveland in the run-oriented play action past game of Kevin Stefansky to go with Ben Johnson. I do think Detroit needed another receiver. I think there's a chance that Donovan People's Jones actually becomes a decent player for Detroit. I think they were lacking there. I think it's a no-brainer in the spread that Ben Johnson runs for the most part. So that's one that jumped out a little bit at me. I mean, this guy was a starting receiver for Cleveland. All right. Let's get into the GM notebook. I already tipped off one of the items in here, but I don't think I compromised the rest of the information here. I think we're good.

So let's dive in. What do you got? Well, this information is. isn't earth-shattering. Let me just let our listeners down gently. But there are a couple interesting. You're such a sandbagger. Go ahead. You're like, oh, yeah, this is terrible. A couple of things that jumped out at me were one, and you mentioned the Leonard Williams trade. And Giants GM, Joe Shane, the way he handled and communicated with Leonard Williams, if anybody hasn't seen the clip of Leonard Williams at the podium in Seattle in his opening press conference, he pretty much says that Joe called him, he called his agent, this was the day before, kind of went through the scenario with him of what might happen.

I think this is how GMs should work, how they can communicate with players and make them part of the process. I just thought it was really classy by Joe Shane to do this and it was an example of how it should go down. I think maybe you're right in eluding to having a couple choices. Maybe Seattle wasn't the only team and allowed. Leonard to have a say in it. And if that's the case, even more power to Joe and Brian Dayball in that front office for allowing this to go down like it is. So many guys we see change teams at the end of a long career, and he's been there a long time with a bad taste in their mouth. This clearly was not the case with Leonard Williams. So I think we ought to help

applaud Joe Shane for the way he handled it. And he contrasted that with when he was, Leonard Williams said, when he was traded by the Jets. Now, Randy, is that a lot of it realistic in every chance? Is this how it should be handled every time? Do you think it's handled like this half the time, 10% of the time, 90% of the time? What do you think? I would think probably half the time you can communicate with these players ahead of time.

The other half you don't want people to know. Shoot, there's sometimes in the building where I've made trades where there were obviously people knew, but not everybody even knows what's going on and you can't allow the security reach, you know, get a different level. So I think it's probably about half the time. I just thought in this day and age with so much. being made about the trade deadline, everybody being talked about as being buyers, sellers, your names out there, that guy's names out there. It made sense for me that Joe goes to a veteran

player who he highly thought of, no doubt from a character standpoint, and gave him a chance to participate in this so it wasn't a total shock. Yep. Okay. Item number two. Well, you mentioned just before we get off that, you mentioned the notice of Dave Bactiari when he tweeted to flowers to the Giants and all that you kind of fill in what your point was there. Oh, yeah, yeah. So that was kind of funny. So David Bakhtiari, you know, long time left tackle for the Packers after this, he took note of Leonard Williams' comments and kind of retweeted it. Did he re-exed? Reposted it, I guess, reposted it now on Twitter, X.

But he was basically saying, wow, this is a great job by the GM. And immediately Packers fans who are frustrated their team didn't make a move or frustrated how their teams handled various players were all in there saying, oh, Bakhtiari's taking a shot at Brian Gutakun's taking a shot at the Packer. Packers, what a big contrast, which I don't know if he was doing that or not. I just thought it was a little bit entertaining. I got you. I noted that. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Another press conference podium that kind of has got my attention. I know it's gotten yours as well. Arthur Smith, the head coach of the Falcons and the way he's handled their quarterback situation, just seeming to me to be really unsure, almost Pinocchio fashion as he talks, his nose is growing. you know, at times I just haven't believed what's coming out of there. Let me ask you, as a member of the media, do you know when you're being played a little bit?

I mean, is that, you have to, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you know when someone's being straight, you know, straightforward or not. And I just thought it was like, I understand from his standpoint, he doesn't want to give up on the Desmond Ritter thing, right? And so it's a little bit of a dicey situation because he knows that to win, And he knows that Heineke probably gives him their best chance to win this week. And that's his number one priority.

But he doesn't want to admit that anything's changed with Desmond Ritter. So he gets super evasive and basically is like taking the fifth on the witness stand. Do you ever see that? Like they're interrogating the guy. And then like he just keeps saying I take the same answer over and over. I'm only here so I don't give find. Yeah. Yeah.

And then after a while when you keep saying that, it just your credibility sort of doesn't seem as good. you know and I would think there could be a better way I've always sensed with Arthur Smith like number one he gets a little sensitive he doesn't want to be like corrected by the media he doesn't he really doesn't suffer the media guy who acts like he knows what's going on which is annoying sometimes as a coach when you know you've all heard the media guy goes so yeah you were playing cover four there and this happened and that wasn't even any close to what happened and the coach is sitting there going um cow I would like to slap you across the face right now but I think Arthur Smith doesn't hide his disdain for some of that very well. And then he also just doesn't seem,

he seems a little sensitive to not to admitting something, right, or conceding something. So, yeah, I thought, I didn't love it. Yeah. I know what he's trying to do. Right. But you really can't have it both ways. Part of playing Heineke this week is not playing Ritter. And there are implications for that, right? Well, I also think there's a way to spin it positively, too. How about just saying that we're going to give Desmond a chance to take a step back, watch for a week or two, or don't even qualify it by parameters of time frame, but just saying, hey, sometimes we need to learn from the way a veteran does it, just see if there's something to be gained here, and we'll take this week by week, but this is kind of where we're at right now.

And I think that might sell a little better than just a denial that's not very authentic, that's all. How about being a little even more specific than that? How about, I'll tell you, one thing every young player has to learn is that football does not belong to them. And he's been careless with it a little bit. And so, you know, anybody, when that happens and it happens again, then we're going to make a change. And it doesn't mean that the player's out forever. We're developing Desmond Ritter.

We think it would be a good starter for us. But that's not going to happen. We're not going to lose games because of that. And so we're going to give, let them take a step back. And look, if Heineke turns it over a bunch or two, we'll obviously they're going to make a change again. So, yeah, I did notice it. I thought it was what it was. Yeah, I got you.

One other note I had, and this is for teams that really were inactive on the trade deadline. I thought both Green Bay and Vegas, their inactivity was a problem for me. I thought Green Bay crucially needed to make a move to add to what they have. They doubled down on their offense being good enough. Frankly, I don't see it when I watch the tape. I think their receivers are undeveloped, raw. I don't think they know what they're doing some of the time. So that's a struggle for me.

And I thought a veteran would fit in. And at the same time, the Raiders with Hunter Renfro, he's been, like we said, doing nothing, not even playing 30% of the snaps up to this point. Why not get something for him? And maybe they wanted to trade him. And that's what started the issue with Mark Davis. Maybe Mark said, hey, you guys just paid him two years ago. That's a problem when that boat keeps shifting back and forth.

Doesn't make the decision makers look good. I don't know. but I thought those two teams didn't take advantage of the trade deadline like I thought they should. They were just sat on their hands and really did nothing to help their teams. I was interested in your Eval and Renfro because, Randy, as you know, nobody is hiring me to be a GM or a scout. But I went and watched his, I did go watch his. I saw your notes. I can say on that. Here's my, well, the question of the notes is, does Hunter Renfro wear cleats?

because this guy spends more time on the ground than me at an ice skating rink, okay? I mean, it seems like he's slipping and sliding. He's on the ground all over the place. If you were watching this tape as a GM from another team, would you really want Hunter Renfro? I'm just curious. Well, taking the risk of not confusing you with Gilbrand, I will say this. I did watch all the snaps from this year. This is a guy that caught 100 balls two years ago.

So if nothing else, maybe we can get him some longer cleats, if that, doesn't, you know, make you happy enough. But I think he's a pretty good player. I think I saw a little more technical ability to get away from coverage, to still separate and to have an uncanny feel for zones. I thought there was a lot of pluses to his game. I didn't get the slipping on the ground quite as much. So I think our criteria might be slightly different, but I can respect your opinion. And maybe there's a consensus to be reached there. There's one time, I think it was in the Detroit game. He overstried it so far. I thought he's going to pull his hamstring. And then he rolled his ankle on the plant.

I was like, my gosh, you know. So, yeah, we'll watch. Maybe he'll brighten up now. You know, maybe he'll have a spring in his step and we'll see the Hunter Renfro of old. But that was just something I wanted to ask you about. All right. We've delayed the pick segment enough.

I'm sign. I'm signing. I'm signing. I'm riding high. Cross town. I'm sighing. God, we were riding high a couple weeks ago. But, hey, I went one-on-one this last week.

I got Cincinnati against San Francisco. I missed Kansas, Denver. Good for Denver. You know, I've been down on Denver. I've been disappointed with the Sean Payton thing, but I have to give them some credit. I think they've played better. They played better on defense. That was really horrific. But as more time goes by, 70 to 20 is a little bit more of the outlier than the rest of the games. So good for them. Kansas City stumbled there. So I was one in one. I'm nine and twelve because I remember I had to owe and four week, the Hail Mary Weeks. So nine and twelve against the spread. Randy? I know, I know. I was three or four

games above 500 just a couple short weeks ago. Now in the 17 game schedule era, you're 7, 9 and 1. That is potential after 0 and 2 last week, lost on 49ers. And then you also had Atlanta minus 2 and a half against the incredible Will Levis aerial show. I'm kidding. So that's where we're at. Randy, how are you going to write the ship this week? What are your picks? I'm freaking terrible. I need somebody just say, hey, you need to wake up. Give me. some smelling salt. You're overserved. We're not giving you another drink, Mueller. Overserved is being kind. But here's my remedy. I'm taking the Sando four-game approach, and it can only go up. It can only go up, right? You use that to go right to the cellar.

I'm going to use it to reappear at the penthouse. I need to write the ship, so I'm going for it. Here's my first pick. The Cincinnati Buffalo game, rematch of last year's, DeMar Hamlin, we all want to get that out of our brain, our minds. I think Sinci brings a different offense, a different defense. I like where they're headed. I think they're trending up. I thought Cincinnati's defense confused a little bit, Brock Purdy at pre-snap times last week.

I think they might do the same to Josh Allen. So I am taking Cincinnati and giving the two points, their two-point favorite. Tell me I'm crazy. Yep. No. We might, when I do my picks, that may be in there. I like that one. Okay.

I'm taking two other games that probably wouldn't jump out at somebody. I think you mentioned something about a liberation game for one team. I think Washington getting three points against New England is a little bit liberating for them as well. And here's my single reasoning. I like Sam Howl over Mac Jones. I think Sam Hal a how believer, huh? Yeah, I'm a howl believer for now. I struggle with what New England's doing still offensively.

I just think Washington's defense. I like some of the backups that, Washington rushes with. Yeah, they have some other guys that can rush. When they trade those two guys, does the air go out of the locker room for Washington? That was my only concern. No, I think they're going to be fine. I don't think that they are going to give up the ghost. I think they've got to find a way to rally, and I think they will. I just like them. They're getting three points at New England, so I'll take the underdog in Washington. Yep. The other underdog I'm going to take, and this goes against a lot of my feelings, but I believe in their defense now is that's the Jets. You're getting three

and a half points against the Chargers. I think the Chargers defensively struggle. I think Zach Wilson is kind of showing enough to where I'm believing a little bit in him. And more than anything, I'm getting three and a half points. So I'm taking the Jets. The fourth game for me is just bad timing on the part of the Seahawks having to go cross-country and play Baltimore. I think Lamar's playing his best football of his career. I think we all know Lamar's record against NFC teams. It's crazy. I thought Cleveland last week in the Seattle game was actually the better team for a lot of last Sunday. I thought Gino struggled. I think it's going to be more of the same.

So I'm going to take Baltimore. I know they're a six point favorite, but I'm going to give the points. I think there's a lot of things trending against Seattle right now. I still think Seattle is a playoff team, but I think Baltimore is really hot, really on a role, playing well on offense. So I'm going to take Baltimore and give the six points. So that's my four picks. Okay. Okay, so I had two down here, but I may expand.

I love the Hail Mary effect of this. Hail Mary, it's just deep thought, deep thought, a lot of numbers crunched. You know me, I'm a numbers guy. Oh, my gosh. So I crunched the numbers. Used Idaho math, but I crushed the numbers. And now we're going to see if it comes out. Yeah.

All right. So I also like Cincinnati just giving two because I feel like it, I feel like they could easily, you know, if they're going to win, this could be usually be a field goal game, you know. But so I like that too. I think Cincinnati's in a better spot. I think Joe Burroughs healthy. I think it's going to go their way. I'm comfortable with that. I may take the Raiders and give it only a point in a half in sort of their liberation game.

I'm afraid of Aiden O'Connell playing. That is a issue. But just looking at the Giants on offense and I feel like there just may be a little bit more energy with the Raiders. They may be able to get that done. So I'll take them. I saw getting. three and a half with Washington. Maybe that's down to three. I'm just going to click a button right here and just see. Hey, I'll take the extra half point if you're giving it. Yeah, let me just see what we got here,

Washington. No, it's down to three now. So, yeah, I think I saw three and a half. So you like Washington too, huh? I'm going to stay away from that one because it's three and a half. The half point matters, huh? I'm just a little bit. I'm just a little bit concerned about Washington's defense, but I got you. You'll probably win that one. It's probably won. win that one. Thanks for that heavy vote of confidence. Yeah. Yeah. So I was tempted to take Seattle and the six. I like your points now. Lamar is I think 17 and 1 against NFC. Can you believe that Seattle is 15 and 3 in the last 18 games in the 10 a.m. Pacific time slot? Isn't that shocking? I knew they were good and they've done a really good job of winning games where I didn't think

they could either. So I'm going against a little bit. But yeah. But that, but you know what? Like 10 of those were like from 2018 and 19. So that's not the same team. I will take Seattle just because it's six points. That's a lot of points to me. I feel like it won't be surprising if Baltimore wins by whatever. But I just think Seattle, I could see this being a little bit more like when Seattle played Cincinnati, you know, and it was like a four point game. And Seattle really had to go like, they had all these red zone opportunities and didn't get it done. Now, watching Seattle against Cleveland, I did go watch that. I did go watch Gino in that game. And kind of on second thought, to me, the two interceptions he threw one was just an amazing play by the corner. Like, to me, the takeaway from that was don't test that corner again because it was not like a terrible throw that he left away inside or something. It was like, hey, tip my cap. Is Baltimore going to do that? Maybe they are.

They also had an interception with a defensive lineman tipping it to himself. Hey, great. More power to you. If you got a defensive lineman who can do that, it's kind of like the guy who picked off Purdy, right? that scrambling thing. If you can bat the ball and catch it yourself, good for you. But that's just not normal. So I will take my chances with Seattle getting six and just see if they defensively can keep

it close. Very interesting to see how they play Lamar or Jackson and just how teams play him in general. I think Detroit really screwed it up, obviously. They seem to have the attitude of we'll just dare Lamar to pass, like not respecting the pass. Yeah. So how do you play him now where you have this history of how to, he's played and you know that for years you have to have a plan for their power quarterback running

game right but now they are playing a different flavor like you still have to be wary of that but don't you you have to sort of calibrate your defense properly and I think that will be the key component of this from a Seattle standpoint of keeping it close maybe winning maybe covering that spread what do you think of that well I think it's going to be hard to do I think the mar's passing game has been elevated this year. The Todd Munkin offense that I kind of questioned before the season started has been really good. I think Lamar has become a more efficient pocket passer. I think his weapons being upgraded around him make it hard for defenses to calibrate.

Like you said, what to stop? So I think their offense is playing at a higher level. And thus, I think they're really timing and their rhythm is better than any time I can remember it under Greg Roman. Well, maybe you get me back because we were on the opposite side of San Francisco Sintze last week, We're the opposite side of this one here. I like it. See how that goes. Yeah, that's good.

I wonder if I'll regret not picking Washington. I'll have the same regret, so we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. I left it off. So I'm taking Sincere Vegas in Seattle. We'll see how that goes. And we'll come back and do it again next week. How about that?

Sounds good, man. Looking forward to it. Have a good weekend. All right, you too. Thanks, everybody for coming along. We will talk to you next time. This was the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast.