The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: TNF, Russell Wilson benched, AFC and NFC updates

Episode Date: December 30, 2023

As the regular season is nearing an end there are a lot of looming questions. Mike and Randy discuss these questions that present opportunities for teams to write their own legacy. Then the guys take a look at teams that could flip a switch heading into the playoffs. Lastly, we wrap things up with the GM notebook and Week 17 picks.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast. Welcome everybody to the Football GM podcast. Mike Sando here and Randy Mueller, the GM. And Randy, I guess we got to say Happy New Year because this will be our last show of 2023. It's crazy. We're winding down, although the games are, I think, even getting ratcheted up with pressure and more fun, I should say. But yeah, we're winding down the season. So happy to have New Year's to celebrate.

You know, I started to celebrate the New Year, did a, a suvied a prime rib yesterday. How about that? Ooh, wow. That sounds outstanding. Really outstanding. The only a downside was my wife witnessing me eat about half of it yesterday when it was done. Because I just didn't want to put it in the fridge. It's just so good. Oh, yeah. But, yeah, that was the only downside. But I would recommend that to anybody who likes a good cut a prime rib. What did you cook it in? What did you cook it on or in?

Well, so the suv method is basically, the way I did it is it's salted overnight. And then I got a bonus one. Okay, I did bonus this year. These things are pricey. You know, I was trying to get the weight down a little bit. So, but I salted it. Then I actually seared it initially in a pan, you know, like at five in the morning yesterday. It's seared it, got some around it.

Then I put kind of a compound butter on it. Like, you know, so you've got your rosemary in time and garlic and that type of stuff with some soft butter. And you get that kind of on the outside of it. Then you put it in, I put it in a five gallon plastic bag and you, you lower it into the suvie water tank. So that is set at a, I set it at 132 degrees. I like it a little, I like it medium rare, you know, kind of pink. And so left it in there for eight hours. Wow.

And so by that method, it will never get a tick above 132 degrees. That's exactly what it is. And when it comes out, it's completely evenly cooked. You don't have to let it rest for, you know, a half an hour so the juices can return to the center. It's just perfectly distributed. So the key is really just getting that sear right. There's different ways to do that. Sometimes you put it under a broiler afterward.

I think I'm going to like the method of getting a little bit of a pre-seer, though, because the sear part is huge to me. I need that done just exactly right. And when at the end, the end of that broiler, you bring some risk into play of burning the garlic or that type of stuff. So, you know, I'm not quite a full pro on this method, but it was good. You're well on your way to losing your amateur status. I can tell you that. So it sounds awesome. It was really good.

So do you got any traditions for New Year's or anything? No, not really. I just think it's always been one where, you know, for 35 some years, I've been working in or around. it. The holidays never really, because you never knew what to expect. That was one year we were in Miami. We played a game on Thanksgiving in Detroit. We played Christmas night at home in Miami, and then we played New Year's Eve somewhere on the road. So all three holidays were impacted. So it just kind of, that becomes your tradition of, oh boy, now what's happening this year? Where's the schedule takes? Absolutely. Yeah. No, I've had, you know, Christmas in a hotel bar in St.

Lewis, the only guy sitting there watching whatever game was on. And then you got the game the next day. It must have been a ram game or something. So, yes, there are definitely some things hard to plan around. It's hard to have some of those traditions. It's funny. You mentioned that on Twitter or X Christmas night. After these games, all of the media people are scrambling, you know, to get out of town to get home for Christmas.

And everybody had comments on just what we're talking about. of, oh, I'm in an airport and, you know, Dallas and I can't get out, and this guy's stuck in Cleveland, and he can't get a connection, and everybody was having the same problems we've had for years. Fortunately, when you're with the team, you're going because that charter's going. But I've, I'm not envious of the media people who have to scramble to catch commercial flights, that's for sure. Well, it's a small price to play for getting paid to go to the games, okay? I've had real jobs, too, so this is not one of them.

But the, yeah, I used to travel Monday night football Saturday to Tuesday every week of the year, you know, 17 straight weeks. So you'd get a little bleary-eyed some of those, you know, those night games on the East Coast, and then you're catching the 6 a.m. Eastern flight. And, you know, you land. You didn't go to bed. And then you're coming back trying to have a smile on your face on Monday, you know. So the travel does, you know, can wear on you a little bit. But it sure is fun going to the games and all of that as well. So let's talk about some games. We had a Thursday night game that I was not that excited to watch Jets, Cleveland. But you know what? Right.

I was glad I watched it. How about you? Well, I always find something in these games, even if they don't seem like on paper, it is a great matchup or something that we'll remember because, hey, it's the NFL, right? And you saw the ratings on Christmas Day what it did to the NBA. I mean, it was nuts, the amount of people that watch these games. So it is kind of our job to pay it. attention and I would probably watch it anyway.

Oh, yeah. I would watch it. It was a different setup. I don't know where you want to start first, but I can't help but be happy for the people of Cleveland and what they've endured this year. I mean, obviously the Joe Flacco thing has been the headline grabber. I think Joe's plays exceeded all of our expectations. And you can just spin off from that, the job they've done there.

Yeah, that's the part that I love about tuning in and watching it. Because as sort of an analyst from afar, even when, I guess when you work for a team, you're fully emotionally invested in that team. But from my chair of covering the league and analyzing and trying to take steps back and look at things from 30,000 feet, you don't always fully appreciate what the wins mean to a fan base. And I thought that was really a cool part of this. They're going to go to the playoffs with this, you know, just the way teams sometimes come together. You obviously have to have contingencies for when things go wrong.

But sometimes, I mean, you just can't predict a year when you're going to have four starting quarterbacks. Randy, I was looking at that today. This is only the third time since they realligned into four eight-team divisions that there's been a team, have four starting quarterbacks and make the playoffs. And I think it might be the only time ever that all four of the quarterbacks started more than one game. It wasn't just a one-off situation. To be in that situation, this is a huge, this is just a huge testament, I think, to an organization that we've ripped over the years, you know, to Kevin Stefanski, Andrew Barry, the players. This is a big deal, I think, to pull this off.

It's not like they're going to get into the playoffs like some of these teams have at eight and nine or seven and nine or something like that. They get 11 wins out of this thing. We downplayed DeVito. Tommy DeVito Mania. We knew that wasn't real. We downplayed Joe Flacco, too, because let's face it, the last few years, haven't looked too good. And we actually talked about it yesterday before the game, but, I mean, looked pretty good in this game besides the hiccup on the screen where he tried to hold the ball and probably should have just dirted it. But how encouraging is this, Randy?

What is the upside here? I mean, should we maybe get a little more excited about the Browns? Well, I think it's a testament to it's obvious that he is such a great. great fit with Kevin Stefansky's offense. And he credited that in a couple of his post-game interviews that I saw. He credited Kevin with really, he said taking chances and throwing the ball downfield, but really what Kevin's doing, he's matching the skill set of Joe, because Joe does make good throws downfield. That's kind of his strength. He's got a really strong arm. He can make those deeper throws. Some of the things that the Browns were struggling with, even when Watson was in there

throwing early in the season. So his skill set sets up great for what really at this point of the season Kevin wants to do. There was some hiccups with some of the poise that you mentioned, but I think the thing that impresses me is that he's the adult in the room, Joe, right? He's, he's really got these guys come together. There's a sense of respect that you can tell around that locker room of a 39-year-old guy coming in and they all realize what he is. They might realize what he's not, but they also realize and respect what he is. And you mentioned it. They have struggled at that position really all season long, some with health, but some with just bad play as well. So I just think his personality is even keel, not being up and down, is a great messenger

for Stefansky scheme to the huddle per se. I think there's a lot of credit to go around in Cleveland. Obviously, Joe gets some of it. I think you're probably looking at Stefansky as maybe coach of the year. If not, he'll get a lot of votes. Joe will get a bunch of comeback year votes. I think Andrew Barry, and you mentioned it, probably gets some executive of the year votes as well. You can have a plan for contingencies, like you said, and everybody should. But there's a column here that, God, thank, shit happens. I mean, this is just off the charts. And this has happened to me in my history at times when I had teams where we had a crazy

amount of injuries at one position, but not a quarterback. And that's the most impressive thing about this, is the quarterbacks are, you know, the trigger that, you know, kind of lubes the whole team. And they've really done an awesome job finding Joe in really turning this over to him. And he's done an awesome job of all the characteristics I just listed. So for my money, I think they all are going to be rewarded at the end of the season. And you mentioned it's not an eight and seven team. It's an 11-win team.

And I don't know that they're going to be as easy out as people think because I think they're a pretty good team. No doubt. I mean, they, you know, you mentioned Joe Flacco bringing the downfield game into it. I think there was a while there were Deshaun Watson just physically couldn't do it because of his injury and his arm. He just couldn't throw the ball. And yet they went and won at Baltimore in overtime with a really diminished Deshaun Watson who wasn't playing that great. You know, that's hard to do. I mean, we've seen Baltimore beat teams, you know, beat decent teams by 30 points in some cases and really take it to the 49ers. So I got to give them a lot of credit. I think this is a year where we're going to go through the AFC and NFC kind of seeds a little bit later in the show. But this is a year, I think, where there are some openings and where every, there's a lot of flaws out there with these teams.

So you take a team like this that knows who they are and knows how to play and can keep the score down because their defense is good. You know, you've got something to work on with. I think the other thing about losing quarterbacks is usually you'd say, okay, well, we've got. Nick Chubb, so we're just going to rely on him. Exactly. The run game. Well, they're missing like both starting tackles, I think another tackle. Three tackles.

That's right. Three tackles. They're missing three tackles. They're missing Chubb. They're missing several key pieces on defense, too, have been in and out of the lineup and even out. So I do think it's really a special story. And it kind of, you see this happens sometimes. It's great that it happens in a place like Cleveland where they really love their football,

really love their team. It's just great to see him get rewarded like that. You sometimes see a veteran quarterback like this. I think of like a Vinny Testifurida at times late in his career, right? Where you get with the right coach, the right team. And, you know, like you said, you become a tough out. Yeah. Well, the thing is, too, and this is when people get hurt like they have in Cleveland this year,

you as a GM, you're hoping to just stick your finger in a dyke and plug the hole and get by. Yeah. That has not been what's happened here. This was a bottom three offense before Flacco got there. Even with Deshawn Watson, it wasn't a good offense. So they've moved from the bottom of the barrel to, you know, one of the most explosive best offenses in the league right now. And you mentioned it. This is also without, oh, by the way, probably our best player, Chubb and three tackles.

So that's unheard of. Yeah, yeah. So good for them. We'll see where it leads them. On the other side of the Jets, I mean, I think that there's probably not a ton to say that we haven't said already about them. but I was just struck watching the game thinking how discouraged I would be if I were the owner and we were committed to running this whole thing back and then just fingers crossed on both hands, toes crossed, arms crossed, legs crossed, whatever, that Aaron Rogers is not only going to stay

healthy the whole year, but play great in this environment with this team. It's just it's a tripling down on a kind of a bad hand where you're just trying to catch a a card that makes it a winner. Doesn't it feel that way to you? They're really should have folded, but your pot committed. Yeah, I don't know why they are electing to do what they're doing. I try every week to look at the glass being half full with the jets. I just don't see it. So I'm just figuring it's me and that I'm missing the boat because I don't see top notch quality really anywhere. I know they have a reputation for having the championship defense. I don't see them play good all the time. And I think last night was another example of it. You can throw

numbers at it all you want. But I think for the eye test, for me, this is not a good team build, and it's not a good team. So I don't know that Aaron Rogers is going to solve it for me. The other issue I have is maybe this is the bigger issue. When I watch Robert Sala try to answer questions after a game, it is painfully awkward. And I don't know how that gets perceived as being leadership. He has no answers ever. Always seems like he's at a loss and trying to find the next excuse.

And it comes across for me as, and I'm not attacking, and I'm just saying he comes across as being very unauthentic and almost insulting of our intelligence. So when I watch these things, and I know you watch a lot of press conferences too, when I'm done listening to Saul,

I want to go take a shower and just say, this is all bullshit. I mean, I don't understand anything he's saying. None of it makes sense to me. So I just think it's like a guy faking his way through a class and he doesn't really go to class and doesn't know anything about this subject, but he keeps talking about it in a way that we should believe that he does know. And I just shake my head.

Yeah, you know, and think of next year you're going to have press conferences by Aaron Rogers too. And remember how challenging that could be for a Matt Lefleur in Green Bay or anybody because he's going to have his own spin on things, his own agenda. And really, I think what we've seen is everyone there just sort of falls into line to Rogers. So, hey, maybe Rogers messaging next year will be preferable to what we're getting now. Well, I think you're right. And it has been really, for the most part, it was early in the season when he was stepping to the mic all the time.

Now everybody's kind of tuned out the jets. And I think to a point, turned out, tuned out Rogers as well, even on McAfee. So it's not quite as, you know, thumping in your back of your mind that, oh, what's Rogers going to say? They're just irrelevant. Remember back in the day they used to do this in the NBA, like Bill Russell would be like a player coach. You know, he coached the team and play for the team. It's not really something I can think of that has happened. But wouldn't that be funny?

Like if Rogers was player coach, you know? He calls the offense. I remember Dan Reeves did it when he was a running back with the Cowboys. He played running back. And Tom Landry allowed him to do some coaching as well. but yeah, I don't think that's going to fly in 2023. But it might make for good TV. Yeah.

I mean, it might make for better press conferences. I don't know about that. And not that the press conference needs to, you know, sell me or anybody on anything. I just, I do find comfort sometimes in listening to the explanations. And then I find angst if I don't, if I can't connect the dots. And again, I'm just going to say there must be something I don't know the knowing of which changes everything because none of it makes sense to me. I feel like with Salah, I don't feel like he does. doesn't know what he's talking about. I feel like he's always withholding something. Like,

he's always not quite free to say what he's really thinking. He's trying, he struggles with that part of it. Like, you know he wants to say five things. Well, why doesn't he say him? It's like, is there a reason? You know, he disagrees with the, he's not really making all the decisions and he disagrees with them. And so he can't talk about him. It's just a weird deal. Well, he tried to explain McIll Bechtin's efforts last night and what they were doing offensively. And, and maybe He's just not very good at changing the narrative or changing the lead, but I just, the explanation just, it disinterested me. And I said, this is, this is garbage.

What did he say? I didn't see that one. He was just, he really tried to change the subject, which a lot of coaches do. But he was trying to say that, yeah, he's fine. He played a good game that he wasn't getting, you know, worked over by Miles Garrett. And I want to say, do you, did you not watch the same game I did? I mean, this poor guy had no chance. He could barely get a hand in front of him.

So I don't know. I just, I just tune it out. You know, it's almost, and maybe that's his goal is to just, I'm out here so I don't get fined type mentality. So, you know, maybe, maybe I need to give more credit. Yeah, and maybe there's just a, you know, a knack or a way for diffusing some of these things and talking through him that he's just, that's not his strong suit. That could really be just all that it is. Well, talking about messaging and talking about having to have a plan for your, for your messaging. This week, Russell Wilson benched by the Denver Broncos.

And I was thinking of this whole thing, you know, having kind of been living in the Seattle area, watching the unraveling of Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson and sort of seeing at times some of the competing messages and agendas of everybody who's trying to, you know, spin it. However, it was going to be spun. I could see some of that happening right away now here, too, with, you know, from the various cases. Camps perspectives on things. Wilson's sort of being painted a little bit by some as a victim, which I think there's some merit to that because we wouldn't say that this is a great, I wouldn't say it's a perfectly executed handling of him by Sean Payton or the Broncos.

But then on the other side, let's face it, there's real limitations that Russell Wilson brings to an offense. I think that we have to acknowledge as well. So this happens. I would say, Randy, I, I would say, I. I kind of thought this day was going to come sooner. Russell Wilson probably had more efficient numbers than I thought he would, which obviously doesn't mean he was playing amazing.

But the numbers were a little better. They were winning some games that they probably didn't expect to win. But I think that Sean Payton anticipated doing this earlier also. And that they just sort of had some, you know, games where they were getting a bunch of turnovers and winning. And there just was never really a time to do it. And then he got to this point where they're almost out of the playoffs. And it's like, well, I better just do it now because there's no other time to sort of to make this break.

But bottom line to me is, Sean Payton doesn't want Russell Wilson to be his quarterback. I don't care what the price is. If the price was too high, that's not the point to me because you would never handle it like this. If you wanted it to work out in one way or another, he's basically telling us, I do not want to call plays for this quarterback ever again. Do you agree? Well, yeah, I agree. I think it was a, you know, prearranged marriage that we all doubted right from the start. It wasn't if it was just when it was going to blow up. I think, and you mentioned Russell's numbers, I don't dispute the numbers and it would show that he's had a decent year. I think it's more style and substance. I think for him to compile those numbers, Sean has to call a certain type of game. And that goes against every bone in his body to actually call the kind of game that Russell can give them a chance. in. So that's a struggle. And I'm sure Sean has always been fed up with it. I don't think it's

all on Russell. I don't think he thinks it's all on Russell. I think he knows he's got to adjust this offense. He knows he's got to change the mechanisms on the perimeter still. I think he's less than happy at some points with the offensive line. So this was the most obvious way to change it and he had to change it because of the way the contract was structured. He couldn't risk the team getting put behind the eight ball again or any further than they already are. So I think his probably statement going in was, I'm going to try to make this work. He told ownership that, hey, I'm not in a rush to rush him out of here.

I'm going to give this a chance. But I think he felt like he could only do so much. I don't know about Russell being the victim or being treated back. I think sometimes people all need to be held accountable, me and you included, and I don't have a problem with that. I guess the public stage is what it is. These guys are on TV every week. Coaches get frustrated.

So there's some of that. I don't like the public really knowing the business side of it behind the scenes. So I don't know how that information got out. And I know you have a little on that as well. Well, you make a great point that I think we've been conditioned to kid gloaties. loves quarterbacks over the years, right? And oh, oh, you know, and then the coach stands up for them and there's never really accountability until they're bench, then you become accountable. But especially these quarterbacks are making tons of money. They sort of get the red carpet

treatment and their coaches don't really criticize them that much. And I think that is not how coaches that trained Sean Payton operate. And we're talking about Bill Parcells. I mean, obviously. He does not want, he's not going to put the quarterback above the team. He can't stand it when the quarterback is the, you know, the way Russell Wilson really became the end in Seattle and the start in Denver where it's all about him. And that, I think, went against, as much as it was hard for Sean Payton to call plays a certain way, that part of it, I think, was very hard for him to stomach. And I think that's why he came in and seemed to be from the get go. he praised Russell Wilson during training camps,

but once they got into the season, I can't find anything good he said about him hardly. It wasn't a backhanded compliment. And then we saw a lot of evidence of him just kind of either being dismissive or kind of insulting. I don't care if we have to put a wristband on. Well, lots of quarterbacks wear wristbands, but it's a sensitive subject when you're really saying we need training wheels with you.

And I think we're not used to the coach saying that about the quarterback. and in this case given to where, given how Russell Wilson has viewed himself, which obviously, I think we can just say frankly, is not how anyone else has viewed him. Yeah, there's a lack of self-awareness for sure.

Playing to age 45, I want to win three more Super Bowls, you know, all that pie in the sky stuff. No one has really seen that. So I think Sean Payton was averse to that from the beginning and it has showed and he just couldn't take it anymore.

I think some of, and I agree with those points, I think some of Sean's reaction is based on the fact of Russell's last year and, like you said, the exit in Seattle of that lack of awareness and of himself really kind of being above reproach, above being held accountable. And Sean's doing everything he can behind the scenes to make this team know that that's not the way it is. That's not how we're going to operate. So the message he was sending behind closed doors was, and sometimes it creeped into the public as well, that, hey, we're going to, this guy's going to be treated like the rest of us because of how much of that lack of awareness Russell had last year and going through a whole season with really, you know, it'd be in the Russell

Wilson show. Nobody wanted that. That's why I thought initially when they hired Sean, he was the best guy for it because he's the only guy that could kind of cut that off, you know, cut off all of that. And he did that, but there comes a price that gets paid with it and that's kind of where we're at right now. And he's had obviously a great star quarterback who was the story a lot, but in a different way. Drew Brees was fully backed it up with his ability to execute the offense at incredibly high level and just the whole way he approached everything. So I think it was not to interrupt, but I think it was a lot of play, but it was also personality, leadership style, being authentic, all of that. And Drew had all that. And that's not something that Russell comes across as having a great feel for.

It seems like his leadership is almost canned and nobody's really buying into. the let's ride or go hawks at the end. Yeah, it's awkward for him. It's awkward, yeah. So what you're saying is you want to see Sala and Russell Wilson paired together for post-game press conferences. Would that be a good combination for you to watch every week? Well, I don't, I don't think that'd be good for me, Mike. I don't think he'd be good for my blood pressure either. I think I might just want to move on and maybe go throw the rod and reel in the boat and go for a ride, you know? The Broncos are going to move on. Russell Wilson's going to move on. You know, we talked about But, like, you know, on paper, Russell Wilson's an upgrade for, he might, this, the way the league is now with the quarterback injuries are just bad performance.

He might be an upgrade for half the teams right now. Now, but I'm curious for you, because you mentioned some of these things that sort of, you know, are bothering Sean Payton, we think, the authenticity, the leadership style. As a team builder, where it's real easy to say, hey, I don't want this type of a player, but you need players. And when you're looking at an possible upgrade of quarterback, where would you be in adding a Russell Wilson to your team? Hopefully you could get it at a much better price. But are those types of things a little bit of deal breaker for you right now where he's at in his career? Would you want to add him to your team if you were one of these teams that kind of, you know, maybe you have a decent setup here in Atlanta or somebody like that? Would you feel comfortable bringing him in as your guy?

It's a great question. I don't know as a team builder that I would go right to that. I don't think money is going to be an issue because with the money that he's getting from Denver guaranteed and the offsets that are included in the language, let's face it, he's going to play for less than that. So my guess is that someone will pay him a million to or something, whatever the minimum is next year for his number of years in the league and the rest will be paid by the Broncos. And frankly, that's probably what Russell would like to do. He'd like to have more of this money come from the Broncos because they're the ones that ask for the divorce. So I do agree with you, though. I think he would be an upgrade for a number of teams, maybe 10 or 12 of them.

And given the state of the position, it's clear to say that they would. I don't know if I would want him unless I expunged all my other opportunities. I just think that intangibles and the lack of authenticity, some of that other stuff, when you add a player like this, that lack of self-awareness as a leader of your team or as the voice of your team would make me a little nervous. Again, this is, it's the kind of thing that Bill Parcells told us years ago. He said, I don't want the quarterback to be a diva. And I know Russell's trying to come back from that, but it's kind of similar, in my opinion, to what happened with Carson Wince. Maybe that the subject is different, but the same thing happened with Wince and that he went through a couple

different teams and then people said he was a problem and they didn't want him for other reasons. They thought he wasn't a good character leader and the style of not being accountable entered in. I just don't know that another team is going to take a big bite out of the apple. The other thing is if you bring Russell in and he's not the starter, then what do you have? Would he be satisfied being a backup? And I'm not saying that he wouldn't win the job. At this point, I haven't seen anything that tells me he would compete for a job yet. I guess he's got to come off the star player attitude first.

I don't know. I think what I'm wandering around my own thoughts are is, will somebody trust him? I think ability-wise, yes, he's an upgrade, but will they trust the intangibles and all this other stuff to make him a quarterback of their team? I don't know the answer to that. Team building is different. If you were just evaluating quarterbacks in a closet where a lot of people think that's what a GM does, does, great, you would say he's better then. But team building is much different than that.

It's not just plugging in a player because of his skill set. Yeah. And especially if you don't see him as someone who is really moving the needle, you're not really going to win because of him at this stage of his career. And there's probably going to be some decline. And he's probably not going to be paired with someone skilled as Sean Peyton and making it work with him, even though Sean Payton, we could say, didn't seem to really enjoy it and it's got a little snippy and maybe, you know,

could have had a cheerier attitude about it. I think he did a pretty good job of getting Russell Wilson to where he has 26 touchdown passes and eight interceptions. Without really, you know, he didn't trust him to do things that could have made those interceptions go up or made them a less efficient of a team on offense. So who's he going to get that's better than Sean Payton at designing an offense for him?

And I guess the answer could be, you know, someone who's got an even better defense and run game. you know well and the scheme yeah the scheme's really going to matter he's not going to go to a place that's wide open crazy russ let russ cook stuff i can promise you that and that makes no sense but you mentioned a team like Atlanta who runs a real tight close to the vest uh play action pass predetermined receive a lot like what denver's been running in denver without the power running game um i could see him fit in a place like that especially with a coach in a scheme that's a little bit on the ropes. And so they both have something at risk to make it work. You know,

I can you imagine there being Arthur Smith betting your future on that for one year? Well, I don't know if you have a future. Yeah, if you have a future, you might, it depends how far out on that plank you are. You know, we're all desperate to further out on the plank, I guess we get. But I think the hard part is Russell Wilson wrapping his mind around the fact that he's not what he thought he was. And that's a hard transition for a lot of people to make. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's going to, that part's going to be interesting because he wants to be the guy, capital T, capital G.

Right. And he's going to have to have another dose or two of humility pie. And it's got to continue to affect the way he not only plays, but the way he operates his life as a teammate. I mean, we've heard this stuff for years out of Seattle, and so it's not like this just happened. This has been there all the time when the play doesn't back it up, then it starts to get questioned. The ironic thing about all this is that, you know, Denver makes a move to move on. Their replacement option right now is Jared Stidham. Jared Stidham did this a year ago, too, when the Raiders jettisoned Derek Carr. And if you're going to compare reactions to having this done, remember, Derek Carr took his ball and went home when the Raiders benched him.

He didn't even hang around. He left the team. And then later signed with the Saints. He had a no trade clause. Russell has no trade clause. Nobody's, I don't think, given any impression that they're going to be able to trade Russell. But I'm going to be interested to see how Russell handles this the next couple weeks, too. I don't think we've heard at all yet.

And I saw some video of him at practice yesterday. And so let's just see. Right now I'd have to give him credit for handling it pretty good if the alternative was Derek Carr, who couldn't handle it at all and left. I'll be very fascinating to see, though, what types of stories. stories come out from quote unquote sources over the next month about this. And then, because if they do come out, you know, let's just say stuff comes out sort of supporting Russell Wilson.

I don't think Sean Payton can help himself from, from not saying. From not saying because he's been so, he's been so free with just talking about whatever he wants. You know, that would be an interesting component to me if he high roads it from that point. Right. Or if some things start to come out about Wilson too, you know, that don't look as good to him. The same can be said for Russell's camp in his representation. You know that they have a history of speaking on the side with media people to explain his side.

If some of that stuff starts coming out and making Peyton not look good, then we'll come back out on the other side. It would be kind of interesting to me. We got a bunch of items in here, Randy, before we get to the GM notebook. We got a few multiple choices here. So I got all the playoff teams here, AFC and NFC. We could hit a few of these teams, see who you believe in. We got something on the Packers. We got Vikings.

The Hall of Fame finalists are out, so we can rapid fire some of this stuff after kind of focusing in on those first couple topics. I've got this one called GM belief levels here. So you can see the teams in the AFC right now. The seating in order is Baltimore, Miami, Kansas City, or one, two, three, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Indie. And you just have a collection of sort of, you know, the Houston's, Pittsburgh, since he's on the outside.

Go through this, Randy, right now. Do you have a strong Super Bowl favorite opinion? Well, I would say in EFC, I do have at least a little bit of a trust factor with Baltimore. I think, I mean, we've seen it play out, especially the last few weeks. I think they're the class of the EFC. I don't know. I guess the real question is who would be the biggest competition for them?

I guess we'll find out. Buffalo? I would say, for me, I would say Miami, then. Buffalo. I'm just not willing to sleep on Buffalo and maybe it's because of the quarterback, but I don't really care what else happens around them. I feel like I have a chance every week if I have Josh Allen. You can say he does this or he doesn't do that. I don't care. He's really good. He's really good. And I think if you polled most GMs in the NFL, they would tell you the same thing. He's really good. And they are way better than the sixth seed. They were way better than the record

was a couple weeks ago. Now, the coach could sidetrack them at any minute. I understand that, but I'm not so sure that Josh can't overcome any errors in leadership above him. And I'm just saying with McDermott and what he might do with the defense. What's really notable to me about the AFC is normally Kansas City is such a roadblock, right? And there's, in the AFC for so many years, there's been a New England or Kansas City, someone who, I don't care what else is going on. like you just feel like they would be the team that's going to beat him. So now they have flaws. So, you know, and look, they could go all the way too.

But we don't feel like that's likely to happen given the issues they have on offense right now. So the door is really open. Normally to get there and win the Super Bowl, you're going to have to outdo them a homes, right? There's just not that many guys that can do it. But for some of these quarterbacks and teams, Lamar Jackson with Baltimore, you know, he's been knocking on the door for years. He's been on good teams. He's been a good player, but it hasn't been able to get done in the playoffs, and that's sort of held against you right in your legacy.

And Josh Allen has made a little bit of a dent in the playoffs, but not much. So there's a real opportunity to hear without the type of New England or Kansas City team that you just know is probably going to get there for one of these teams to sort of write their legacy, right? And get a chance. Yeah. Well, I think it's great, and it's a great point. It's Kansas City for me is the missing link. and what I've seen with Kansas City doesn't give me the trust factor or the feeling that they can fix it.

That's my problem. I just would say, yeah, they got my homes. They got Kelsey. Well, guess what? None of it's really going right. And the defense is kind of underachieved a little bit lately, too. So I just, I think they've got a lot of issues. I think their hope is that they can flip the switch.

I just haven't seen enough to say, yep, they can flip the switch. So we went through the top three teams, at least in my opinion, we didn't even talk about Kansas City. But I'm with you. I think Kansas City's down the road because of that. And I'm not ready to put them behind Jacksonville or the Colts or anybody like that. But, you know, I'll tell you what, if C.J. Stroud hadn't got hurt, we might be talking about Houston just from the standpoint of them catching lightning in a bottle this year. I just don't see it from the Chiefs.

No, but, you know, you could see, like to me, Cleveland could beat any team in the FC. They already won at Baltimore. You know, I don't know if they can string together, you know, a bunch of wins. But the door is really open here to a degree. It hasn't been. and someone's going to get to get to the Super Bowl possibly because of it where they normally wouldn't be able to.

And that's going to be really beneficial to them, their legacy, the whole thing. So I think it's a great opportunity to not just have same old, same old, yeah, Kansas City's going to get it. Maybe they will. That'll be their greatest testament, the greatest accomplishment if they can do it. But I'm with you. I don't feel like they have the answer to what's going on in the offense. I feel like it's more of an off-season issue at this point, right?

No, I agree. I think they're going to have to retool and rebuild. And they'll be the first to tell you they miscalculated. some parts along the way. I think the scary thing about Cleveland is they are the, I guess Baltimore has a little bit of the identity, so does Miami, but Cleveland has had developed an identity of what they are. So they know better than anybody what they are, and they can play to that strength. I think some of these teams, they really don't know what they are. It's a little bit of a hodgepodge every week. They sometimes play good enough to win, but Cleveland knows what they're

going to do and what they do best. And I think Stafansky is really smart. He knows how to manage these games to a way that he can play to the strengths of his team. And I think the same with Jim Schwartz on defense. So I think they're in a good spot. I really do. I don't think they are as explosive as some of these teams, but they tend to understand more than anybody how to game plan, how to design, and then how to execute that game plan better than you can to defend them. Yeah, absolutely. And I think Baltimore's done a good job too that way. And they have obviously, they obviously have Lamar Jackson, which gives them a really high ceiling too. If, their defense keeps playing like this on any one weekend.

With the new coordinator there too, that could be interesting just how they sort of, after a full season now get to the playoffs, they can kind of think about there's a lot of different capabilities, right? They haven't leaned into Lamar as much of a designed rusher this year, probably to preserve him, some of it offensive style, but that's still there probably if they want it, right, in a big game. Well, there's no doubt. I think Lamar, and it's probably the best improvement, the thing that's improved most

about his game is his ability to maneuver in the pocket, but stay in the pocket for the purpose of throwing. And so, yes, but the fact is, and you're right, it makes me smile, he could take off at any minute and run for 40 yards. And he did it at 31 yards against. Yeah, hasn't been the big part of his game. So I guarantee teams that play them, though, know that. And they have to design things to stop that. So it's a, it's a double-edged sword to stop Lamar. All right. So now go to go to the NFC where we felt like San Francisco is the class of it. And I still do. But, you know, so we got the 49ers, the Eagles, the Lions, Bucks, Cowboys, Rams, Seahawks, and then kind of right there with Seattle, but a little below them is Minnesota, Atlanta, Green Bay,

some teams that may or may not be able to find their way in. What's your confidence level in San Francisco as a Super Bowl team after what happened against the Ravens? I have no doubt about San Francisco. I don't think what I saw changes my state of mind with them. I think everybody that says, well, now the blueprints there, my comeback would be, okay, when's Baltimore? Not everybody's Baltimore. They can't play like Baltimore plays.

So I just think that matchup is problematic for them. But I also think if they play again, the advantage goes to San Francisco because they know what won't work and they know how to design some things that really hurt them. I always think the loser the first time around, if they're fairly equally talented, which I think these teams are on both sides of the ball, I think Atlanta or San Francisco would hold a little bit of just a mental edge in the region. So I'm good with them. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm going to go to some places here and I'll let you speak first. But I go to a place or two that might surprise you with the next group of NFC teams. Yeah, the thing I wonder about with the 49ers is as you do get into the playoffs, certainly in a Super Bowl situation, if you were playing a team like Baltimore or Cleveland, I just wonder if, you know, disrupting Purdy seems to really make the whole. whole thing go off the rails, right? And some of these other teams, like you disrupt Lamar, he might run for 35 yards, right? So is San Francisco easier to solve by a good defense? Because remember when they played Cleveland, they really shut them down too. If San Francisco against a really good

defense, does Purdy become more of a liability? I think if it's designed in a way that Cleveland's defense is and Baltimore's defense is, I think it could be problematic. And I think, The weakness to the 49ers is when Trent Williams is out and they shift those tackles around. And they saw last week that Gavarian Clowny played like a man possessed, like better than I'd seen him play in five or six years. But the matchup was power rush, not a lot of edge rushing, but they just drove those backup tackles back into the lap of Purdy. And that's problematic. And Cleveland did the same thing with Garrett and some of their past rush. as well. So those edge rushers in a different way, but it's got to come with some power and strength

and ability to push the pocket back, that seems to give San Francisco a hard time. It's just that not many teams can do that. So maybe you mentioned the two teams, Cleveland and Baltimore, have that ability to match up front with them, which makes life tough on Purdy without a doubt. But the speed rushers, the guys that come around the corner, he steps up, he's got good enough you know, instincts and anticipation to get away from that. But that edge rushing

was a problem when it was a power edge rush. I may not be as clear as I'd like to. I know your words are better than mine. That's great nuance. And then you can see when Trent Williams is out of there, that's a huge problem.

You know, because he can stop that. He can stop the big guy. He has a big strong guy. Yeah. That's the thing about, everybody always asks me, what's the deal about the, what is the difference

between Hall of Fame linemen? And I was lucky enough to be around Walter Jones. And I was lucky enough to be on Willie Rove. It's the guys like Trent Williams who can not only dance laterly, but sink their ass and anchor. Those are the two.

Usually you can do one or the other. It's the guys that can do both that are Hall of Fame guys. And that's what separates Trent Williams for me. This is a big, strong man who covers people up and does not get pushed back. He has anchor and its natural anchor. Same as what Willie Roof had. Same as what Walter had. It's the big punching heavyweight who can also get on his bike and

move around, right? I mean, what do you do? Yeah. Yeah. I know it sounds oversimplifying, but it is hard to find because I know Hall of Fame tackles that don't have that ability. That's why I think guys like this have really, they're the gold standard of even Hall of Fame type skill sets. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, and then the rest of the of the conference, oh, you were going to then maybe hit, I think I know where you're going. I bet you're going to talk about the Rams as a, as a dangerous team. I am because I really like what they're doing there. We're going to hit some of this in the GM notebook. It was one of the things that jumped out at me on tape this week.

And I know you wrote about Stafford and his MVP status. We'll get into Rams then. I like it. To that end, I have doubts still about Detroit's defense. Philadelphia's offense is kind of coming and going. I think they've got a win from being ahead. If they get behind, that's a struggle. Dallas, for me, is suited.

And I know they just lost in Miami. But to me, Dallas is suited still. after all of this, with talent and schemes on both sides of the ball, I think to make a little push toward getting up to the Philadelphia standard as much as anybody. And then, yeah, we'll talk about the Rams. Yeah, I think the Dallas, though, you know, when your Achilles heel is stopping the run and you're in a conference with the 49ers, Eagles, and even the Lions to some degree. I get it. And the Rams are running the ball. Well, we're going to find out this week because Dallas plays Detroit. And you know what Detroit's going to want to do. And that game fascinates me.

We'll talk about that. Love it. Okay. A couple of other. items here. How we doing? We're doing okay on time. A couple other items. You saw the Packer suspended Jaira Alexander for going on with the coin toss. And I saw, you know, I was reading some of the media reactions to it and it seemed like, you know, it was kind of an amusing thing. You get here, you get suspended for the coin toss. But after the game, when they showed Jaya Alexander talking about it, just how cavalier and nonchalant he was about it, it bothered me. And I was just curious from. a GM standpoint, look, I mean, the coin toss, no big deal. They won the game. I get it. It's not like

you, you know, committed some kind of a crime. But to me, this sort of thing and the attitude about it is emblematic of bad things. Just curious, what would you, if you were Brian Gutakunster or somebody in the front office of the Packers and you saw that, what would you be thinking? And what do you think? I think they did the only thing they could do. Like, I think they had to step in and do something. I think you're right in his casual cavalier approach bothered me as much as anything else. The fact that he had no self-awareness. But to me, it shows a little glimpse into what I think some of their problems are on defense. I don't know that anybody is being held accountable for anything because I think it's a talented

group that doesn't play good that you don't need my analyst to tell you that. I think it's a sign of this defense lacking accountability. You could tell that he had no fear of any repercussions at all. He didn't get it. He didn't understand it. It was definitely a bad look for the team. I think the fact he claimed that nobody said a word to him after the game and maybe even until he got back was odd. That to me would be jumped on.

I mean, I've been around Mike Holmgren. I've been around Sabin. These guys would not let something like that lay till Monday, I can promise you. They would have solved that one right away. I just thought it was a bit odd. I think it does question a little bit, Matt LaFleur's leadership. And we said when the season started, we didn't know how he was going to be able to lead and if he would be able to come down on people.

I think the definitely questions, again, and this wasn't part of what we're talking about, but I just think it glimpses into these other issues that this defense is having. I just think it's an underachieving defense. And these are all spotlight things that I think the outside world is rightfully able to criticize, but I think it's probably why their defense has struggled. What's interesting to me about Matt LaFleur is he had to kind of come in on Aaron Rogers' terms, and he was sort of the junior coach with the super senior manipulative, great quarterback, and he probably wasn't in a great position to come in and just take charge of the team.

And then I don't know, I don't know that that's his personality anyway. I don't know. He doesn't strike me that way. Like he's going to just, I mean, you mentioned Holmgren or some of these guys. I mean, I've seen them go off. you know, and I can't almost picture LaFleur doing that. So, you know, I wonder if, I wonder about that component of it as we watch that interview and just some of the things on defense. And Jaya Alexander also made the comment after the game about, hey, we just, we just got to play what's called, you know, which to me is usually we're saying that, meaning, yeah, they're not calling good stuff.

It's not our fault. So I would like to see some evidence. I know there's an organization they suspended it, but I would like to see some growth in evidence. evidence of growth of of the flueur in that realm of just being a little bit more of an enforcer.

I think that can be said league wide, Mike, and this is going to probably come across to some as again, the old man telling people to get off his yard. But I think a lot of these young coaches struggle

to hold players accountable because they are looking for support. They don't want to be questioned. They're afraid that something might come back to haunt them down the road. And you mentioned, and I've mentioned

some of the older coaches we've been around, I'll be honest with, they didn't give a rat's ass. They're going to do what's right for the team. And if they got to hold people accountable, if it's behind closed doors, great. And I just don't see a lot of that. I mean, I've been around enough to know my last 10 years at the Chargers. I don't know if these young coaches really came after. You don't have to come after. You've got to, you've got to demand of others as leaders. And you've got to be very demonstrative at times, depending on who the target is with that. And I think that's a thing that lacks in society, really, is because now we're afraid. to hold people accountable for their actions.

Well, so think of a new coach. I mean, Dan Campbell's a new coach, but you don't think of them as a new school coach. You kind of think of them as probably a little bit of an old school coach. And he also comes through that Parcell's Peyton lineage where there's a little bit more of that. So look, I think there's more than one way to lead a team. And I think, you know, somebody like a Mike McDaniel doesn't strike me as someone who's, you know, going to just put the hammer down. He hasn't had to either. But I think he's authentic.

I think he's really has the answers for his team from a scheme. standpoint and has the respect of the team. But there could be times when you have to deal with stuff like this. And then you go, okay, how does that lend itself to that? And so how does Matt Lafleur, how do they write out of it? You know, what are they going to do defensively in the future? What does that accountability look like? Are good questions for a coach who has a good record.

And I think overall it's done a pretty good job. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I don't think you really know what you have in a coach and a leader until stuff goes bad. I really don't. That's when I think you'll, maybe some of these guys are just better peacetime presidents than anything else. And maybe he'll never have to, but you mentioned Mike McDaniel. I think at some point, not necessarily right now or this year, but Mike McDaniel will have to step on some people just coaching. That's life. And I don't know if he will or not. But those are, those are issues that I think people on the outside legitimately can can have an opinion on. But in some cases,

it hasn't happened yet. So we can't say somebody's this or is not. Yeah, if it's respectful and for the betterment of the team, I think everyone respects that. I mean, look, nobody wants, it is kind of like parenting. I mean, you shouldn't be just haranguing your kids and smacking them around. That's not what we're talking about. It's just really being consistent in having some accountability. So I think good for the Packers that they did the suspension thing.

That is accountability. So, you know, I think that, like you said, needed to be done. And even though it's ha-ha, shilly coin toss, there's more two. it than that that goes into it. Let's stay in the division. Let's talk about the Vikings. I got a little headline on our item here. The Kevin O'Connell quarterback of the weak club.

Okay, so we got Cousins gets hurt. The Joshua Dobbs story is amazing, but he goes from start to number three. Nick Mullen throws four picks. Now they're playing a rookie, Jaron Hall. Just curious what you think of the overall management plan here from a head coach who has played quarterback. I have no issue if it may surprise you. I think this is Kevin O'Connell trying to find the right guy.

I don't think it shows his indecision or indecisiveness on picking a lane. I think sometimes when you go through depending on your coach, you see a coach struggling to find the right lane. I think this is done for the right reasons. I think Kevin O'Donnell knows that Josh Dobbs was not good enough. I think he knows that Nick Mullen was not good enough. Therefore, you forget that Jared Hall was the backup early in the season. and played and actually started a game before he got hurt.

You had asked me before if I had seen him in college. I had not, but what I had done is gone back and looked at the 13 plays. He played in two games. In fact, he played, the Vikings and the Packers played each other this weekend. He played in the first game when they were there as well. And just in a couple little instances of him playing, I don't think the game was too big for him at all. I think Kevin O'Connell sees Jaron Hall every day in practice and understands that He has vision that understands he has poise.

And now he wants to see more of it. And that's why he started him in that Atlanta game when he got hurt. And frankly, he gets hurt inside the five-yard line trying to run for a touchdown on first drive of the game. So I think there's a lot of pluses with Hall. The negative is he's only six foot tall, 200 pounds. So he's not big at all. But I think there's a lot of things that he does really well. And Kevin in a big game is willing to trust him with knowing what's going on and being

able to make the right decisions. And he showed glimpses of making some really good decisions. He just hasn't played much. So there's not a lot of body work. Yeah, I thought the flip side of that would be just, hey, is Kevin O'Connell having unrealistic expectations for these quarterbacks to run his offense the way he ran it with Kirk Cousins as opposed to really changing up how you're going to call a game like Sean Payton did with Russell Wilson, like we've seen some other coaches do. I think like when Joe Burrow went out, we saw Brian Callahan. the offensive coordinator and Zach Taylor, the head coach of the Bengals, you could tell they were playing a little differently.

They're throwing the ball shorter. I think there may be incorporating running backs. I just wondered if the flip side, you know, it was a fair criticism of O'Connell of, hey, you've got to adjust what you're doing for these guys because they're not Kirk Cousins. And guess what? Hall's not going to be Kirk Cousins either. So I don't know if you're sympathetic to that at all,

but that was sort of the balancing that out to me. Yeah, I'm not sure that Josh Dobbs or Nick Mullins really in a normal. team building process would even be your number two's though. And that's how the level of play, in my opinion, fell. It fell below where anything that O'Donnell could, O'Connell could do changes. I think he's trying to play to their strength. I think he has changed a little bit, not to the extent of what we saw in Denver where Sean Payton forgot who he was. This is a total, he's trying to win games, too. He's had the battle every week to win games. So you can simplify things to the point where you'll, you'll protect your quarterback, but guess what?

The defense doesn't have to work quite as hard to stop you either. It's like playing with one arm behind your back to make your quarterback look good. And I think that's what he's done or had to do with Dobbs and Mullins. I think it'll be interesting to see what he does with Hall this week because in the little bit of film that I saw on Hall, he was able to make some decisions that were, I don't want to say they were third and fourth level, but they were second and third level things. And it was more than just throw to a predetermined target. And I felt like when Mullins got out of that comfort zone,

and had to actually read defenses and make decisions, it didn't turn out good. And Dobbs made some plays with his legs, but he couldn't make the progressions either. So we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Moving along, we're not going to put any of those backup quarterbacks into the Hall of Fame, but the Hall of Fame did, and I'm a selector for the Hall of Fame, so I was involved in this

and cast my votes already for the 15 finalists that were announced. And we're going to talk a little bit about that. The way this process works is you get down to 15. then actually in Atlanta next month, we're going to have our first in-person meeting since before the pandemic. We used to always meet in-person. It's been Zoom the last few years.

So I'm looking forward to that. And we'll have a short presentation on each of the 15. And then we'll have a couple rounds of voting. And then as long as they have enough votes, five of these 15 are going to make it into the Hall of Fame. I'm going to read off the names in the order of how many times they've been a finalist already. So Torrey Holt and Reggie Wayne, this is their fifth time.

Jared Allen, his fourth. There's four guys that have been a finalist now three times. Willie Anderson, Devin Hester, Andre Johnson, Patrick Willis. Two guys have been twice, Dwight Freeney, and Darren Woodson. And then six guys are new this year. Eric Allen, Jari Evans, Antonio Gates, Rodney Harrison, Julius Peppers, and Fred Taylor. I understand you might have a couple asterisks near, next to a couple guys that maybe stand up to you?

Well, I definitely have a little bit of history with Antonio Gates. And for me, even though he's a first-time, first-ballot dude, I have him in my Hall of Fame without any doubts at all. I mean, you're talking about an all-decade performer, eight-time pro bowler. I mean, the numbers are all there, but I've seen the eye test as well. And the guy's the best tight end I've ever been around. And not that I'm a measuring step for anybody else, but he's really good. And I always use, and I'm sure we've talked about it before, as my gauge, and I don't know if it's right or wrong, Mike, but I say as he dominated from his position for a decade.

Yeah. Antonio Gates dominated at his position for a decade. So I think that's a no-brainer for me. I think Peppers is another one. Oh, yeah. I think Peppers dominated the game for a decade or more. He's not two all-decade teams. Yeah.

Well, when you make all-decade teams, then we're talking, right? And so those are the guys that jump out. at me. I would say this, and I know everybody says Devin Hester didn't play a position. Devin Hester was as special of a returner as I've ever seen and been around. I think when he came out, I was in Miami and Nick Sabin and I were together there, and we brought him up for a personal workout at our facility with the Dolphins. And we threw him some passes. We had him drop through a bunch of drops as a defensive back because he had played both ways at Miami. We didn't think that he had the body control to be a receiver or the hands to be a receiver.

And on defense, he struggled with some of the techniques to be a refined corner. But what we thought was when you put the ball in this guy's hands, it's crazy. And I remember Nick saying when I said, what do you think we should do with him, coach? And he said, put the ball in his hands. And that's what the return game is. As soon as the ball is in this guy's hands, he turns into a Hall of Fame player. So forget the position that you line him up at. When the ball is in his hands, he's as good as we've seen.

And so I think he deserves to go. And I know this is third time in, but I surely wouldn't push back on anybody that wanted to put Devin Hester in the Hall of Fame. So for me, you know, and I thought this list becomes watered down. And I understand the marketing aspect and what the league's trying to do and all that. But I don't know how you feel about him. That's just my opinion. I like the gates. I like peppers and I like Hester Forcher.

I do tire a little bit of, and I'm not going to beat up Reggie Wayne, but there's a lot of these Colts players who seem to get on the ballot all the time. I'd like to ask you as a voter, how does that happen? But I don't think if you pulled the league that there was ever a time when somebody like Reggie Wayne dominated the game ever, you know. He made all pro one time. So I'm just saying that, and again, I'm not beating him up. I'm just saying for the Hall of Fame, for me, these guys have to be really special for long periods of time.

Well, Reggie Wayne is number 10 on the all-time yardage list. It's funny, you know, who's number nine is Marvin Harrison. And then people are going to say, well, yeah, he had Peyton Manning. But guess what? The top receivers get their yardage. It doesn't matter who their quarterback is unless they're a third teamer. I mean, Devonte Adams with Derek Carr's numbers are the same as with Aaron Rogers. So that's how he is on there.

I agree with you with Peppers and Gates. I think those are two that I'd put at the top of the list. Devin Hester is really just a matter of, like, I feel like anytime you play Devin Hester, especially now they don't really have returns as recently as in the past, but he would be the number one or two game plan consideration for every bear's opponent for 10 years. Would you agree?

100%. That's the guy. We've got circled starred. We cannot let him wreck the game. Even though it's funny, you look at his career, he has, he scored 19 touchdowns on return. which is incredible, but it was 19 touchdowns. There's guys who've had 19 touchdowns in a season playing football, not return games.

So I think that's the only thing that's hard to quantify is, okay, how do you compare somebody who played, who had at his most 47 punt returns in a season? So for his career, he had 315 punt returns and 295 kick returns. So he had 500 returns where against somebody who was playing 60 snaps a game for, 10 years. I think that's the only thing you have to consider. And sometimes that works against, you know, someone who's in a little bit of a special category, but pure game plan consideration, there's probably, Gates and Peppers are probably the only other guys on this list who rise to that level. Wouldn't you say that you, yeah, every week it's the number one thing you might be

talking about. 100%. And I think numbers are one thing and obviously your numbers are valid. I and I always air a little probably more on the eye test side of it. And I think Devin Hester made people nervous as much as any offensive player ever did. Just because every time he touched it, you felt like he could ruin the game. He could score a touchdown and ruin the game. Yeah. I think it'll be interesting this year. I do feel like we've gotten to a point now with the Hall of Fame and some of it, you know, they've had expanded classes in the past.

but I do feel like it's harder to find 15 to put on the finalist list. Do we still have to have five every year? Well, no. Or is it more than that? If some of them didn't know, only five, there's different categories for senior candidates or that type of thing. But these five modern era, you could have fewer than five if there were fewer than five who got enough votes, right? Oh, so we're not required. We're not required to put in five, but the way the voting comes down, it's very likely there's going to be five because what they do is they give you the ballot with 15 and we talk about it.

And then you pick 10. You pick 10 of and you have to check 10. And then you come back maybe a little bit discussion and then you have to check five of the 10 that are remaining. And then at the end, you vote yes or no to the five that are there and they have to have 80% yes. So if somebody did, if 20% of the people said no, then you'd have fewer than, you'd have fewer than five. And that has happened. That has happened before, I believe it happened with Paul Tagliabu, maybe made it to the final five. And then there was 20% of the people at least who didn't give him a yes vote.

It's a kind of a rare thing. Once you get down to five, I think at least 80% of the people say, okay, they're not going to, they may have preferred somebody else more than one of these candidates, but it's not enough for them to just undermine them all the way and say he's not a Hall of Fame worthy. So that's kind of how it works. And, you know, I think for the most part, it's for the most part, the right guys get in eventually, but you could make a case depending on where that bar is for you, hey, are too many getting in. If we're having to have debates for five and six years about somebody, does that make him a Hall of

Famer, right? Right. I agree. I think that's the fair criticism of it to me is when you have to build an elaborate case around somebody and convince people over a number of years, some of that's fine if you need to educate someone about a player that people just didn't know enough about. But it can go the other way too where suddenly you're looking around and you're going, okay, this guy is not really close to these other guys, right, possibly. And that's a matter of opinion too.

You'll find someone else. It's subjective. There's no doubt. It's subjective. We can find, you know, you mentioned Reggie Wayne. I guarantee we can find people too who thought he was amazing for X, Y, or Z, right? And that was the reason. So, you know, that's like you always say, that's why there's a lot of different flavors of ice cream.

You don't have to like them all. Yep. I would say, I would say, Jumelma and Fudge and the world-class chocolate are probably good, but you might like peppermint, you know, I don't know. Yeah. No, that's right. What you got in the GM notebook? Well, a couple things quickly.

I know we're kind of time's getting away from us here, but. one thing that jumped out at me on tape this week, and I was watching the Saints' offense, really, to kind of figure out what the Saints have going and kind of where Derek Carr is as a player. And really, after watching the film, the things that jumped out at me more than really what's going on in New Orleans was the Rams have built themselves a really good young defense. And it more than jumped out at me. You're talking about multiple guys who have been drafted the last two or three years and are really young, athletic, flying around. I know you spoke highly of the defensive coordinator there in the past, and I think he's a good coach as well. But I'm going to credit less need and some of their scouts that have brought some people to the table, you know, whether it's Kobe Turner, a third round pick from this year, Byron Young, a third round pick from this year, Ernest Jones, a linebacker, a third round pick from a couple years ago.

They've got a lot of people that they've mixed in now with Aaron Donald and a couple of the older guys. Quentin Lake, a sixth round pick from a year ago, these guys are all really good players, Mike. And it was exciting to watch them fly around. They pressure the passer differently. We talked about Baltimore and Cleveland the way they pressure the Rams. They got speed and they get on the edge and they make tackles very uncomfortable because they might just run right around them. They're really good blitzers. I just like what they have going on. And I wasn't aware of it and maybe that's on me. Oh, there are a bunch of new guys too. Yeah, I think the, The story of the Rams, yes, it is Matthew Stafford and the two receivers and some of the things they do,

but their defense has kept them in a lot of games and they're really good. So that jumped out to me as the Rams are built for the future. And I know they've already beat Seattle twice this year, but I see why they match up with certain teams because they're really athletic, especially on defense. Yeah. Yep, it's a good thing going. I think Sean McVeigh is probably glad he didn't go into TV. Yeah. I think, and you probably know more than I do on this, he seems rejuvenated.

himself a little bit. So I think they've got a little breath of fresh air. And the Rams are definitely, I think, going to be a tough out if they can squeeze into the playoffs this year. The other thing I had down, and you mentioned it earlier, you alluded to kind of, as we talked about the game on Thursday night, but the Tommy DeVito era seems to be over. You and I both kind of ignored this story because we didn't think that Tommy would be an NFL skilled ever quarterback. and the more we watched, the more I kind of doubled down on that. I think finally Brian Daiball agreed. And now he's gone back to Tyrod Taylor.

I felt like if he'd have gone to Taylor last week at the first of the game, they might have found a way to won the game. I would think that Tommy is one of those kids that, like we've said all along, it's obviously an awesome story. There's probably a movie made here 10 years from now. And it spawns off and is a hit in New Jersey, you know? But I don't know that the rest of the world saw what they saw. there, you know.

No, but it was such a big thing locally that I think making the move to, because they, you know, they obviously, they won some games when he was in there, but it was, you know, on defense and that sort of special teams, that type of thing to win the games. I think by making this move now, even though it wasn't needed for you and me, but for because of the DeVito mania that was going on, this just removes it as an off-season storyline of that's kind of annoying where they're asking about Daniel Jones recovery and then is DeVito in the mix, that sort of a thing. I think they don't have to deal with that now.

Well, it was obvious that Dayball didn't want to deal with it when he would almost off-putting, shut down reporters that kept asking about or eluding to just that fact. And I think by doing this, you're right. They eliminate this from being a narrative or a topic that comes up. Yep. The third thing I had in the notebook was more fallout from the Denver situation. I know we talked endlessly about the quarterback switch, but what does that mean? Are there some other fallout pieces?

And what I was getting at is obviously George Payton is the one that made these deals. And I know George, I love him. He worked for me in Miami. But I don't know that Sean Payton doesn't continue to build his team on the field and off the field. I just think there are things that probably are going to be alluded to down the road. And maybe it's just adding a guy or two to the mix because I happen to think George is a pretty good evaluator. I think the quarterback decision kind of got away from all of them there. and the swings and misses that the Elway regime had made prior to them,

George getting there and electing to go with Russell Wilson, probably had an effect on that evaluation per se. They were kind of blind in that they didn't really know what they were getting. Total desperation. Yeah. Yeah, total desperation. So I'm not necessarily making a case for George. I'm just saying that I think he could, I said early on he's a good match

personality-wise with Sean Payton, But I could also see Sean going to back to his roots in New Orleans and bringing a guy or two with him, you know, like a Jeff Ireland, somebody who he's worked with in the past, who's the college director in in New Orleans and kind of bringing him in the loop in Denver. And I just don't, I think we're going to see some more changes in the building as along with changes on the field when Sean, when this season comes in for the Broncos. Yeah. And this was a huge one with Wilson, but yeah, you're totally right. I mean, there were certain moves you can't make right away. And getting rid of Wilson was one of them, you know. And then changing the front office up, probably is another one.

But I think you're right. As Sean Payton settles in, we're going to see this organization become more sort of patentized here. Yes. No doubt about that. And it's probably, don't you think, more Parcell-ish or New Orleans-ish type additions to make. I do. And it probably makes sense, yeah.

Yeah. We put off the picks long enough, but this is where people tune in. because we've got some people who just become millioners off of us this season with our picks, Randy. What are you looking at this week? Well, my picks last week were the equivalent of the Robert Sala post-game press conferences because awkwardly painful is one way to describe it. I was 0-3. Some of these teams that I picked, when I watch the games sometimes, I just shake my head, Mike.

I said, how could I have thought this? I thought totally different about certain teams that, dang, then they just go lay a big egg and they don't even show up. And you wonder, what the hell were they doing, you know? But the things, but the reasons why you picked them are still solid reasons. It's just, you know, one game situation, weird stuff like those on. I think you had Jacksonville, Green Bay. Yeah, Indy.

And Indy. And I all had plenty to play for. Yeah, I had Indy too. And they got just worked by the Falcons. So yeah, it's a week-to-week league. And, you know, that's the way it goes. But I like the reasoning still. is it doesn't mean the reasoning was bad.

We can learn from that. So what do you got this week? Well, I have four games that I do have some conviction for. And as you know, some weeks I don't have conviction. Yeah, I'm going to pick four games. And they're basically games that really mean something. So my rationale is I can reason better with teams that are all in to have to win. So we'll see.

I don't know if that's going to work or not. But I'm taking the Cowboys over Detroit. I know Dallas has lost a couple. I always think the more desperate team has a better chance to win. I think Dallas is a little more desperate. I think Detroit is celebrating their win last week and clinching a playoff spot. I just like Dallas's mindset where they're at as having to be hungry now. Plus, I think they're at home.

And that obviously matters a lot to them. So I'm going to give the five and a half points, which I think is a lot. I'm going to give five and a half and pick them over Detroit. I'm also picking Baltimore over Miami. I think their defense, as we've kind of broken down during the pod, is really problematic for anybody they play. But I think because they're so powerful up front, they find a way to squeeze the pocket on Tua and maybe pressure some from inside.

And I think that's a problem for vision for Tua. I just like the matchup with the Ravens playing at home. They're also a three and a half point favorite, but that doesn't bother me. I'm going to give the three and a half points there too. Yep. But another game I am going to pick is the Seahawks at home against Pittsburgh. Again, the Seahawks are three and a half point favorites. I just think they're in a better place right now than Pittsburgh.

I don't think Pittsburgh has solved much of their issues. I don't think it matters who plays quarterback for Pittsburgh. I don't know if it's Mason Rudolph. I don't know if it's Kenny Pickett. My guess is neither has played in a place like Seattle with the stadium, the noise, the effect of the environment. I think that's a problem for some teams. And Pittsburgh doesn't come there that often. So I think that's a problem.

And I think Pittsburgh's going to struggle. So I'm picking Seattle. I'm given the three and a half points. And then my one game of maybe not meaning or having a ton of meaning, but I'm picking a fourth game. And it's kind of eluding to the fact that I think Sean Payton's going to be out to prove a point this week. I think Denver's offense is going to open up. I think the Chargers already have their bags packed. Denver is a three and a half point favorite over the Chargers.

I don't know what we're going to get from the Chargers other than some Christmas cheer. I'll take Denver who I think will, like I said, be a little different offensively because I think Sean wants to turn the new quarterback loose a little bit and show that he's right. And I'm willing to bank on that. And again, I'm picking favorites here, but I'm giving a three and a half. Yeah. I think Denver will work over the chargers. I don't know if you like any of those. I do.

Well, and I actually didn't, I didn't read your picks beforehand, but one of my picks aligns, I'm into Denver for the same reasons. they beat the Easton Stick-led Chargers 24 to 7 in LA just three weeks ago. I think Sean Payton doesn't want to be standing there after the game Sunday answering questions about how his team lost after the quarterback change. I'll be very interested to see how it plays out. I'm sort of betting on Peyton a little and against the Chargers probably more than that, but I'm with you on that. It just feels like Sean Payton picking the timing of this thing, you know,

probably thinks he can do some work with this quarterback against that team. And so we'll see how that comes together. Maybe it would have happened with Russell Wilson anyway. Like I said, they beat them 24 to 7 before. But I'm going to, I'm going to go with that. I'll give the three and a half on that one. And then the 49ers, I'm going to give the 12.5 at Washington doesn't scare me at all. I think, yeah, sure, they lost to the Ravens. But during their six-game winning streak before that, they won by 31 over Jacksonville. That's more than 12.5. 13 over Tampa. That's more than 12 and a half.

18 over Seattle, more than 12 and a half. 23 over Philly, more than 12 and a half. 12 over Seattle, so that one was close, close, and then 16 over Arizona. So they would have covered 12 and a half every time, except for one, and that one they just missed covering by, it would have been by a half a point. So if you think the cars are idling in the parking lot at L.A.,

what do you think is going on with commanders right now? Yeah, no, I'm with you. I think that's a great. Francisco, you got Kyle Shanahan going back. I know Daniel Slander's not there, but I don't care. They fired Mike Shanahan. I feel decent about this one. And now we're going to quarterback change. They're all over the place with Washington. So let's see about that. I'm also going to follow into the Mueller trap here. Do I get a point with the Packers at Minnesota? Sounds like it. I think Minnesota's favored, right? Yeah, why? The defense. People are afraid of

of the defense and coming after LaFleur and Jordan Love. I think that blitzing defense is somewhat problematic for them, and we'll see. I just think the pressure is what they are banking on Minnesota applying from a defensive standpoint. Yeah, and they very well may do that. So I'm still going to go with that. So my picks will be San Francisco minus 12 and a half, Green Bay plus one, Denver minus three and a half. Here's a couple notes here for you because I'm such a gambling insider.

But no, I saw this from. a friend of mine I used to work with at ESPN, Ben Fox, he said per MGM sports books, the most bet on teams this week, just by the number of tickets bet on that team, are Detroit getting five and a half. They're going against Mueller. The Rams giving five and a half

and Baltimore giving three. The most money wagered is on Baltimore giving three, then Detroit getting five and a half, and then Rams giving five and a half. That was interesting. Seattle, I was a little tempted, I looked at their last three wins. Their last three wins are by three, three, and three points.

So is that just sort of how Pete plays these games? They went to Tennessee, hard-scrabble component. You know, you get out of there with a two-minute drive. Maybe they can finally put it together and run past the Steelers. But that scares me just a little bit on, is it going to be a Pete Carroll close to the vest, win by three? Maybe they just overwhelm them, and maybe the damn breaks, right, for the Steelers, which seems like it's a real possibility too. It's possible, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I got. You got anything else? No, that's outstanding. I like your picks and we'll see. We both need a little late season surge here. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Happy New Year to everybody. You can find Randy on X at Randy Mueller underscore. You can find me there at Sando NFL. You can find Randy's column, his latest one on The Athletic, I believe, published on Wednesday. day, Randy, give them a little heads up. What do you write about? Well, I wrote a little bit about of a plan for attacking for Ryan Poles and the Bears, and most Bears fans think I'm high, and that's normal. I think everybody has a little different version of their own team, but this was an outside view of where I think they can go, and hopefully we'll have some more

of those as the season winds down. But just another vision of where these teams and what they have in store for them. I think it's interesting the narratives that local fans have of their team and the parallels that don't exist with other football people or people on the outside. It's amazing how the reactions you get around the league. It's crazy. It really is. So check that out. Yeah, people were questioning your e-vow of one of their offensive requirements. So definitely check that out. My latest one popped on Thursday looking at the MVP race, a little bit of a sleeper case for Matt Stafford and also a look at how the teams win the games, which I use in looking to, okay, is it offense, is it defense, whatever. So check that out, everybody, and we'll talk to you

next year, not just next week, next year. This was the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast.