The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: Why Herbert is Tier 1, Payton vs. Rodgers, Irsay vs. Taylor & more camp topics

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

Mike Sando and the GM Randy Mueller bring you some more intel inside QB Tiers 2023, why Justin Herbert was ranked so high, Russell Wilson being ranked so low and more before digging into Sean Payton's recent comments that didn't sit well with Aaron Rodgers, Jonathan Taylor's unhappiness with the Colts, plus Joe Burrow's injury. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Before we jump in, I want to tell you about New York Times Audio, a new iOS app for New York Times News subscribers. It's got our show, plus all of the other podcasts from The Athletic, exclusive shows, narrated articles, and more. New York Times Audio, download it now at n.ytimes.com slash audio app. This is the athletic football show. Welcome, everybody, to the Football GM podcast. early, our first one of August, 2023, heading into the preseason here soon,

Mike Sando from the athletic, along with my athletic teammate. Randy Mueller, how you doing, Randy? Doing great, Mike. Good to be back with you on the GM podcast, and we have some football. Actually, pads popping. It's kind of cool, actually.

It is. Love this time of year, although a lot of stuff gets talked about that really ends up not being relevant, a lot of hype. Everyone's optimistic this time of year, right, Randy? Without a doubt, everybody's going to be this, they're going to be that. They've made great strides in the offseason. I think it's kind of funny. If you read the accounts from around

the league, and everybody's just doing their job from the media standpoint, right? They're reporting on a catch here or a throw there or a missed assignment here. Here's the crazy thing about this time of year in the NFL. All of it adds up, all of it's important, but none of it stands on its own. So when a certain play is described or a play that doesn't get made is described, just keep in mind that it is a process and it's going to last the next four or five weeks. I only compare it to this. We used to have the scouts come to our training camp when it started. And the first 10 days, I would give them each a position to evaluate. And so they would come back after 10 days with several positions under their belt. And what we do is we'd have them rank them,

you know, one through 10, the corners, one through eight, the safeties and so forth. More times than not, when it would go through these lists and have it all solid, exactly like we all had a consensus built, a month later, I would pull out those lists again and almost chuckle because things have changed so much. And so many things can change over the next month that you think you have a team on paper when you show up. After a week or so, yeah, there's the remnants of that. After three weeks or so, you might as well wad up the paper because everything's changed,

whether it's injuries or guys have really done better than you thought or worse than you thought. It's just a time of optimism. And so everybody wants to forecast the future. But really, it's practice. It's the preseason games. It's the prior OTAs. All of it adds up. And so you just can't, what we evaluate and what we see today is going to be totally different a month from now.

what do you think about one quarterback being six of eleven in practice today and the other one was nine of fourteen what do you think of that without being disrespectful can i say i don't give a rat's ass i mean it just it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't matter i mean it's all part of the process yeah we'll we'll put up one little corner of the chart of today's work but let's have 50 of these charts marked in there let's graph the whole thing and then we'll get back to it so it's an entirety every every little thing that's a that's being said and reported on is important, but not as important as it all comes together, you know, the week before Labor Day. Yeah, absolutely.

It is a fun time. There's a lot of stuff out there, and you've got to know sort of what to pay attention to, what not to, and how to contextualize it all. Right. Really, because like you said, some of it, you'd rather know than not know, but it doesn't mean that that one thing. We're all starved for content. We're all starved to see.

We can't be everywhere. I mean, you've been to some camps already. I hope to go to some camps. We're going to maybe go to some together down the road. We just don't know, but we're all starved for information. And so we make a big thing out of nothing. And it's not anybody's fault. It's just it's the sport and the business of where we're at.

We all want to know. We all want the knowledge. And, you know, it's just going to take a while to be processed. And it's any one given day isn't the way that the decisions will be made at the end of it all. Absolutely. Well, we are going to talk about some things that do matter here today, including our thoughts on the whole Sean Peyton Jets thing. We're going to talk about Jonathan Taylor versus Jim Ursae.

We're going to talk a little bit about Joe Burrow and his injury and what concerns Randy might have that could be, I think, pretty interesting to a lot of our listeners today. But we're going to start off, Randy, with the 2023 quarterback tiers that we published on Monday, which is now my 10th annual poll of 50 people in the league. We had eight general managers, believe 10 head coaches, 15 coordinators, maybe 10 utter firm office execs and a handful of other coaches go through and put the 30 projected veteran starting quarterbacks into

tiers. You can find that on the athletic. But the joy today, Randy, is, you know, when this thing comes out, it generates some buzz. People want to talk about it. And then I end up being asked about it on various radio shows or whatever. But I get to ask you. this is the way that it should be.

How about somebody who actually knows what they're talking about, knows what they're looking at in the NFL. Randy, after 35 years of doing this, has filled out his own quarterback tiers ballot. And I've got kind of on my screen here, and we'll get to some of this, where Randy would see the variance. Like he even went through and ranked these quarterbacks 1 to 30.

And in some cases, he's 10 spots higher on two players, Kenny Pickett and Jordan Love. He's seven spots higher on Daniel Jones, a few spots higher on golf. So we're going to talk. We're going to go through some of these tiers, get his thoughts on not just those quarterbacks, but some of the others. You're ready to do this, Randy? I am.

I love the list. I love the exercise. Credit to you for putting this out because I know everybody in the media world and in the football world likes to see it. And like you said, it's valuable information because it's done by those guys that are on the inside of buildings and understand that not only there's evaluations, but there's team building. And it's a little different criteria, I'm sure, for some than others, but I love the exercise. So yes, I'm excited to take a look. I've learned so much from people in the league about,

you know, kind of how to look at these quarterbacks. And I think, you know, one of the number one things that seems timeless, no matter what, your ability to handle kind of the peer passing situations when your team has to throw the ball is really the differentiator for Tier 1 in 1985, 95, 2005, 2005, 2005, 2015, and now, isn't it, Randy? And said a different way, I totally agree. Eventually, they make you beat them from the pocket. And that's really what it comes down to. Defensive coaches are really good.

That has been the case for the last 50 years. And eventually, they are going to put you in the pocket and you're going to have to throw the football with people scattered all over the field and people trying to take your head off. And yeah, you can get away from some of it, but you're never going to get from all of it. And the older you get, the more you're going to be stationary. So yes, at the end of the day,

that's probably the one task that they're all charged with is winning from the pocket and making all the throws. And that's the bar of entry for getting into Tier 1. And over the years, we've seen some guys have some great seasons. I mean, Lamar Jackson was the MVP. He got up to the top of Tier 2, and he's kind of stayed in Tier 2. because he hasn't yet, you know, got pushed over the top from the passing standpoint.

We have Jalen Hertz knocking on the door. Looks like he's going to get into Tier 1. He's at the top of Tier 2 now. So right now, Tier 1, Patrick Mahomes, Unanimous, Joe Burrow, almost unanimous. Josh Allen, very strongly in Tier 1, Aaron Rogers, Justin Herbert. And when I looked at Randy's ballot, he had the same guys in Tier 1. He would put Herbert a little bit ahead of Rogers, probably splitting hairs there. But let's, of that group, Randy, let's just spend a couple.

minute or two here on Aaron Rogers because before this year, in the previous nine years of quarterback tiers, he'd gotten 401 Tier 1 votes and only seven in Tier 2. Okay. So this year, there's 20 of the 50 put him in Tier 2, some doubt creeping in. And this is a little different because even when their offense was slowing down under Mike McCarthy, the voters stood by Rogers Tier 1 all the way. Do you have some? concern that he could slip out of tier one this season with the Jets? I think I see it a little different. So the only way I see him slip out of tier one is based on the surrounding cast. Now, he can't control that. I think the tackles are our work in progress.

Maybe some would say a little bit of a mess. I don't think the offense in itself is ready for prime time. And that may get him to slip down. I think I feel as good about Aaron Rogers as I have in the last few years in that I see a motivated, a focused, a guy that's out to prove he's right in so many ways that I think he's been engaged beyond where he was in Green Bay for three or four years. And I just think those are all characteristics that should lead him to being, you know, having a good year. Now, I don't know about the rest of the cast. As you know, I'm not drinking the Jets Kool-Aid quite yet.

I don't see them as air to the throne in the AFC East. I just don't. what what this tier one tells me is, I don't want to be in the AFC, because that's where all the quarterbacks are, right? That's where all the good quarterbacks are. All of tier one is from the AFC and really some of the guys at the top of tier two, whether it's Trevor Lawrence or Lamar Jackson, you know, and on his best day, Deshaun Watson, if he gets it back,

those guys are all in the AFC. So good luck. That makes it tough, tough for a team like the Jets to get through. Now, you also, you would actually have Justin Herbert just a notch even above Rogers. some of the pushback I've gotten from fans and media doing various radio shows or on social media was, Justin Herbert, what's he ever done? Why would he be in Tier 1? Can you explain, in your words, why you would have him Tier 1 without really having the team success yet that some of the other guys have? I think that's definitely the big issue for me in that I would put him above Aaron just based on where he could go.

I think he is not done anywhere near the extent as Joe Burrow has, as Pat Mahomes has, as Josh Allen has. He lags behind them in results, but I don't know that it's his fault. I think, and we've talked about it on the podcast, that Chargers every offseason are the team to watch. They are the team everybody's focused on, to make the next step, and it just hasn't happened for him. Some may say it's not Herbert that's holding him back. Maybe it's the coach or maybe it's the defense or maybe it's some other reason. And so I think that creeps into people's evaluation a little bit, just subconsciously. How could it not?

He just hasn't experienced the heights that these other players have. I see long-term success for him. This is a giant year for the Chargers in general. I think he's been proven he can play at the highest level and is a tier one guy. He's been paid as such. I don't think the money is going to change Justin Herbert at all. I don't think it's going to affect his. performance. I think the biggest thing that's keeping him from being a top four or five guy or three

or four guy, and again, we're splitting hairs is just the success of that team. So I don't have reservations with Herbert. I really don't. I have reservations if the surrounding cast is good enough. I'm with you. And so statistically, the last two years, the charges are 28th in combined defense special teams. And they're 19 and 15. And the four teams that rank lower than them are 51, 84 and 1. So when you look at why would they have a winning record anyway, it's not their defense. We know that. It's not their amazing running game, Randy.

It's not the incredible offensive scheming. They're going through coordinators. So it might be the guy behind center who made it through last year with a rib injury. And really, Randy, when people, the people that I talk to in the league, if they have stood on the field with Justin Herbert, they come away impressed. Like, wow. This guy is even more athletic. or more impressive than they thought.

So that's part of the calculus with him too. Everybody should get to stand next to Josh Allen or Justin Herbert just for one half of one game. And just realize on the sidelines how big of men these guys are, how things around them are happening so quickly. And we've said this for years. The pocket's not for everybody. I used to be that way with Philip Rivers. I used to shake my head. Philip Rivers is not athletic, but Philip Rivers is all of six five.

He's 245 pounds. He is a big man who was comfortable in the middle of chaos. And he could move half as good as Josh Allen or Justin Herbert. So I just think you're right. I think you would be totally, totally impressed and in awe if you were standing next to these guys and realize how big of men they are just physically. Yes. So, okay, as we go into Tier 2, the 50 people that I pulled when we average it all together,

it went Jalen Hertz, Lamar Jackson, Trevor Lawrence, Dak Prescott, Matt Stafford, Deshawn Watson, and Kirk Cousins just kind of barely squeaking in there. And the difference between Tier 1 and Tier 2 and the definitions is just that, you know, the guys in Tier 1 kind of are the reason

their team wins very consistently. And the guys in Tier 2 kind of do that some of the time, but less consistently and maybe need a few more pieces around them. So Jalen Hersch was at the top of that. high on Jalen Hertz and you are here. But yet if you had to actually rank him within tier two, you would put Trevor Lawrence even ahead of Jalen Hertz and Lamar Jackson as the top guy in Tier 2. Why?

Well, I just think for me, and maybe this is just my evaluation hat, and maybe I shouldn't consider it, but I've said from day one, Trevor Lawrence checks every single box. And we saw the results of that a little bit last year. And so I'm betting on the come with him. I think he's next year's Tier 1.

He breaks the ceiling into, tier one. I think Jacksonville's going to be good. I think he's going to be good. So I just see more upside with him. That's all. Maybe not as polished as some in the upper group, but I think he's well on his way to getting there. I think there's nothing that I've seen from him that surprises me or that I am concerned about. And this is after a year that was a total waste with Urban Meyer, a total wasted year for the kid. He came a long ways last year. Now he's in the second year of that offense. I'm really looking for big and crazy things out of Trevor Lawrence.

So some people after his first year with Urban Meyer and even into last year, the first part of the season said, hey, even if we throw out some of the extenuating circumstances, they were underwhelmed a little bit by his accuracy and just the consistency of it. Was that never a concern for you? And do you see him, do you think he made a big jump in that area? I think his accuracy is improved. I think the biggest question, Mark, for me, is that he ran a total college offense that needed to be deprogrammed and out of it.

These kids that come out of college, they don't know what throwing on time is. They don't know that the ball has to come out. And that comes with accuracy. It happened to Josh Allen. Everybody said he wasn't accurate either. Well, you know what? He was throwing to neighbor kids and he never threw ahead of schedule. He never threw anybody open.

and I think the same thing with Trevor Lawrence, and I'm not banging on Clemson's offense. It's worked to win a national championship for them. I'm just saying it's not what we do in the NFL, and guys are way better on the other side of the ball. So you really have to anticipate. You really have to throw on time, if not early, and the ball really has to come out.

You know, and the amount of throws, the amount of different throws you make at the pro level is, it's a lot more than these kids throw in college. So there's going to be a learning curve. without a doubt. I don't worry about his accuracy. I've seen enough that I think this kid's going to continue to trend really north fast. And a guy like Doug Peterson was a great fit for him because Doug has been through it. He's seen it. He's not going to be surprised. I think it's just a good fit for Jacksonville in general. And the other good thing, by the way, is I think Trevor Lawrence is

staked on the other side of the ball with a really good defense. I think this team is, in all of my tape study in the offseason might be as good on defense. They have more people that are harder to block than any team I saw. Let me just say it that way. And that's going to benefit Trevor Lawrence. Yeah, absolutely. And we'll see if the coordinator can pull all that together. Now you had Lawrence as a top guy in tier two and then Jalen Hertz. So you think Lawrence will be the guy to break through. Do you think Hertz is just going to kind of be a high tier two? Or do you think that he can get into that tier one group too? I just don't know if he is as accomplished as a passer as as those guys ahead. of him. I think he can get there. I'm not going to doubt him. This kid has been doubted his

whole life, but he's also passed through every test up until now. There is no way five years ago that, in fact, I'll bet you gave truth serum to everybody in the Eagles building. They'd say no chance, no chance, no way, no way. We all said when we saw it. They were looking at Russell Wilson a year ago. Yeah, no doubt. And so he's broke through every cap we've put on him. And I think he does nothing but improve. So I think the thing about Jalen Hertz is he, yeah, he needs a team around him and he has a team around him. So I think once we see him carry a team, I think there's a chance he then gets into top tier. But I think at this point for my money, and again, we're splitting hairs here. I love all these guys. Jalen Hertz hasn't really proved I can carry this team at the to the next

level if that makes any nitpicking sense at all. It does. I think, you know, that he has one of the best offensive lines in the league, a couple of the best receivers. They schemed it well. Their defense was top 10 or, you know, really a good defense. And so they had played with in a lot of games where, hey, we're ahead in the fourth quarter. He's not really throwing the ball. The two-minute situations aren't that critical. And so to me, a little bit more time on task, you know, another year is perfect to look at him. Maybe if at the end of the Super Bowl, he had gotten a two-minute drive and aced the test and they win it all, you know, maybe we push him up a little bit. But he, you know, you know, You're right. He has proven it at every step. The other volatile guy in Tier 2 is Deshaun Watson, and most of the people I talked to, couldn't believe how bad it looked last year for him. Do you think he's just going to, do you think he gets back to Tier 1, or is it too hard to tell based on what we saw last year? Yeah, I do think it's hard to tell.

I thought there was enormous amount of rust, like you're saying. I don't love the offensive schematic that they run. I think it's a little arc. a little bit of, you know, I want to run the ball. I'm all for that. But this isn't the Pittsburgh Steelers of the 70s. And sometimes they come across like that to me. Their passing game scheme is sometimes simplistic.

Hey, they've got an offensive line that's really good. A bunch of guys that can really block. I think that Deshaun Watson benefits from that without a doubt. Maybe he can kick off the rust. I don't know if they're good enough on the perimeter with playmakers that he can do some of the things he did even with the Texans. But I think there's, he's going to have to show me more. Obviously last year was not his best effort.

And I get it. Hey, the guy was inactive for two years. So we'll see what happens. I think their plan is to open up the offense more. But the question is, do they really have the infrastructure and mindset to do that? It's kind of like that offense. We know how they run that offense. It's kind of one of the knocks on Kyle Shanahan as a great offensive coach is,

hey, do they really have the volume of dropback? offense in there to step on the gas a lot and play a more wide open style. So that'll be the challenge and opportunity, I think, for Kevin Stefanski to really adapt that offense. Certainly he's a smart coach, but he doesn't have experience playing that way. And in Minnesota, when Stefansky was there, he was under Mike Zimmer. They were never going to play that way. So how much can they open it up?

Yeah, that's right. No part of a spread offense. Yeah. How much can they open it up? And then how much can Watson flourish in that with the weaponry they have? So before we close out tier two, there's one player from tier three, I think one player from tier three in Jared Goff that you would bump into tier two. And I get that.

I think Goff is kind of an underappreciated guy, don't you? Well, and rightly so up until last year. I think I understand the criticism of him. I was one that would say the same thing, way overdrafted, never really reached his potential, got another big money deal thrown at him by the Rams for questionable reasons. You don't really understand that. but having watched a bunch of these guys all offseason, Mike, I think Jared Goff had a really good year last year.

I don't think he gets talked about enough. I thought he was outstanding. I think you couple him with the offense and the scheme that they run. It's as innovative as there is in the league right now. And I think Jared Goff is clearly, for me, a tier two guy with the idea that he should be toward the top of you two with another year like he had last year. So I don't know whether you want to call it a resurgence or whatever, but people forget that this guy was the first pick in the draft the year he came out.

And I thought we saw a little bit of that last year. And, you know, when it's right around him, he's been to a Super Bowl and put up some really good numbers and played like a tier two quarterback. Doesn't have that kind of escapeability or second reaction type play that maybe some of the other guys in Tier 1 do. But he throws a great ball, doesn't he? Randy, when it's as good as a lot of guys. And he has not only the accuracy, but he has the anticipation too. This guy gets it. He can see things and throw people open.

He's advanced between the years, if that makes any sense. And I think that's really at the end of the day what you want is a guy that can anticipate and kind of foreshadow things happening in a particular play. And he's pretty good late in the down because of it. His mind works at a pace where, you know, I think he wasn't working like that with the ramps. He was one of those guys where, what's the saying goes? I got to look to first and third before I, you know, make any throw at all. Well, he had periods in his career where it was like that.

He was kind of a slow blinker. That is picked up. So I'll give credit to their offense, to their coaches. I think they've done a really good job in raising his play to where it was last year. And I frankly think that he can continue along those lines this year. Would you be looking at an extension for him? Because remember, Ben Johnson could leave for another job, too. at some point here as well.

Would you be wanting to wait, or would you be excited to dive in with golf? I think I would wait this year out and just see where it goes, because I think it's trending up right now. Now, this, he may be one of those guys, because he's been paid, right? He got his hundred million from the Rams or whatever. So I don't think you're going to have to pay him 50 million

to get him to sign an extension. Maybe he falls into that, but he falls into that tier two pay status as well. So, but like you're, tier exercise showed. Most don't see him as a tier two guy, right? So yeah. So they might have to this year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes there's a little lag in the, you know, in how much guys move based off of kind of the gravitational pull of where they've been. And so it takes a little bit of time there. So, okay, the top of tier three, I'll read through tier three according to the 50 evaluators just averaging there.

That started with Kyler Murray, went with Derek Carr, went with Jared Gough, who Randy would put into Tier 2, Russell Wilson, Tuatung of Aloha, Jimmy Garapolo, Daniel Jones, Geno Smith, Justin Fields, Ryan Tannihill, and Mack Jones. So of that group, a lot of those guys Randy would also have in Tier 3, he would push Mack Jones to Tier 4. he would move Daniel Jones to the very top of Tier 3 right below Goff, which is interesting. I know you've liked Daniel Jones. Let's talk a little bit about that because I've been asked quite a bit about him with people have questioned how much money they gave him. People said, is he getting enough credit?

Does it just too much go to dayball? Is he limited? They didn't really step on the gas and try to push the ball down field much. Weaponry was part of that. Why would you be more bullish on Daniel Jones and put him at the top of Tier 3? Well, I saw a kid that had not improved his first three, four years in the league. I saw the same player at Duke when I went in there to scout him. He just never got better.

And for whatever reason, last year, whether it's credit to Dayball, credit to Kafka, credit to the system, I saw a guy that progressed last year. And I thought he had it in him. I think you and I talked about him several years back or a couple of years back when the Russell Wilson thing was going down, and he listed New York as a place that he would be willing to go. And I'm thinking under my breath that, hey, well, that might be something if I'm John Schneider. I might take Daniel Jones in return, you know. Yeah.

And he would love a guy who could run like that. Yes, yes. And so I thought that might be something that worked out. It didn't for whatever reason. But I think, and probably it's something I take more criticism on, and I do some of the same radio shows you do, no media member wants to hear Daniel Jones is good. They want to hammer their shit out of him. all the time and say the Giants overpaid and did everything they could, you know, to not pay

Sequan Barclay and that they've paid, they've paid Daniel Jones like he's great, but he's only good. Well, here's two reasons that I would come back against that. One, the options they had weren't good. They're going to take a big step back if they didn't pay Daniel Jones. So they really had no choice. I think they did the right thing by paying him. And two, I think that Daibol understands Daniel Jones. And I think Daniel Jones is a good match with Dayball.

And I think that is a good system going forward for him to advance his skills to a tier two. So I like the fit. I don't think they overpaid. I think you've got to pay to get. That's just the way the position has evolved. We all know that everybody's overpaid from that standpoint. But it's what you had to pay. If the Giants hadn't paid Daniel Jones, you don't think one of these other teams would have.

Probably paid him more. Probably would have paid him more as a free agent. That's just the way it is. it's cost of doing business. And here's the other thing. Because I think ideally it would have been great if they could have got them for cheaper. But that's easy for me to say. God bless you.

So his average per year, you think 40 million. Oh my gosh, this guy's making 40 million. That's the number 11 average in the league. Well, guess what? It's going to 12 when Burroughs signs. And just over time, over the next year or a year and a half, it's going to be the 15th. Okay. And what we're saying is right now, give or take, he's the 15 best quarter.

back anyway and maybe in Randy's case he might think he's going to go to 12 or 11 or 13 so there's no gap between he's being paid just what we think he is he's being paid as the top for 13th guy yeah so that is an overblown story of the magnitude of overpayment

for him and now they get him some weapons we do have a great deal of trust in dayball we think he's good and you know they should be able to build something off of that in an NFC where it's a lot more open than the AFC.

So they may have a, you don't think they're, like I would classically think the Giants are the type of team that takes a big step back. They won too many close games. You know, their record's not going to be as good. But maybe they, you know, maybe they're similar, right? I've been in exactly their shoes. When I took over the Saints, we were awful. And we went, I want to say like 10 and 6th, the first year made the playoffs. The second year, we took a big step back.

We couldn't fulfill our promises, couldn't fulfill what we had done the year before. So that is a fear of mind that the Giants do that. I don't think it's going to happen, but it doesn't mean they're headed in the wrong direction if they do. Obviously, you can't win 10 or 12 games every year unless you're the, you know, Kansas City Chiefs or whatever. But I'm not too concerned about that. I think they've gotten better since last year. They haven't adopted the approach of, and I don't know, I can't remember the record, but if it was 10 and 7, they haven't adopted the approach that were one player away.

They've continued to build. They've continued to add talent at the price that makes sense. So they haven't over-evaluated their own people and said, hey, we've got it. We've made it just because we made the playoffs and won a playoff game or whatever. Yeah, not my one. Yeah. Yeah, 9701 for them. So, yeah, that's got to be encouraging for Giants fans to hear that, which, by the way,

the receiver they drafted Jalen Hyatt supposedly got set the land speed record. Did you see that in the news? No. That was your guy. What did he do? He was apparently clocked at running like 24 miles an hour or something. It was like it was like faster than Tyreek ever had. So that was your guy in the draft, I know, of those receivers.

So maybe that helps Daniel Jones fulfill his upper tier three. Can't hurt. Even if they never throw him the ball, Mike, he can't hurt. Trust me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So also in tier three, you would, you are selling on Jimmy G. Jimmy Garoppolo.

You would drop him. And if you were ranking these guys from, I think 15th is maybe where he was in this one. Let me look at that. I guess he was 18th here, maybe whatever. You would drop him down to 23rd in the league from 18th to 23rd. So why are you so down on Jimmy G? I'm just going on history, right? And I'm going on what I saw on tape when Kyle Shanahan would have to change the way in

my opinion that he would call a game when Jimmy G was his quarterback. So I'm not drinking the Jimmy G Kool-Aid. I don't think the Raiders are going to be markedly better with him as opposed to Derek Carr. You know, it's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors. I guess we all get to pick the flavor we want when walking the door. And I'm not a Jimmy G guy at this point in his career. Durability is a concern. Getting away from the rush is a concern. I've seen a guy the last two or three years when San Francisco, when pressure, especially up the gut, his game has changed. When he fails pressure in his face, he doesn't make good decisions. Now, you can say everybody's like that. Well, I just saw it at a level above everybody else when it came to Jimmy G. So, you know,

he has missed all offseason with the foot injury. I understand that it was a planned event. When they signed him, they figured they would take him until training camp before they passed him on the physical. All that has gone according to plan. I'm not sure he may. makes them better than Derek Carr does. I guess he's their guy. So everybody wants their guy. Time will tell. I just think this team is a work in progress with a lot of other issues, including defense.

Oh, so we'll see. So, Randy, over the last five years, the 49th is ranked six statistically on defense and special teams, number six in the league, which is a huge reason why Jimmy Garapolo has such a high winning percentage. And the Raiders are 32nd. Okay, so if you look the last five years, all the teams in the top eight defense special teams have winning records, all of them. It doesn't matter who's playing quarterback. The bottom eight teams all have losing records except for the team that had Rogers, the team that had Mahomes, and the team that had Rivers slash Herbert, the tier one quarterbacks. Jimmy's not, no one thinks Jimmy's a tier one quarterback.

So if they're going to show up with a 32 bottom, bottom quartile defense special teams, which is what they've had, certainly they're going to probably be. bottom half of the league. Jimmy G is going to be lucky to be 500, right? I would think if they're 500, they've done a hell of a job. I just, I don't see the Raiders being that good this year because of that. And now they've got the running back holding out, and I know he'll come in at some point, but just a lot of cultural changes still evolving there. So there's other reasons, but yeah, I think Jimmy G needs a lot of help to be as good as he can be

and as good as he needs to be for them to win. I just don't know if it's the right setup for him. in Vegas. And even though it's a familiar offense for him, couldn't it be a more challenging and exposing offense for him relative to the Kyle Shanahan one, do you think? Oh, I don't think their offenses anywhere near what he left in San Francisco, offensive line included. So yeah, I think it's definitely going to be a big challenge for him. And I mean, I'll watch. I'm not, I don't have anything against Jimmy G. I just, I just don't know that they've taken a big step forward at this point. No, no, I would agree. So another thing that you would do in looking at

tier three is you would add two players that are way down in tier four. One of them has played more than the other. But Kenny Pickett, who I know you liked coming out of Pittsburgh, and Jordan Love, who has obviously been sitting behind Aaron Rogers. Those guys in the quarterback tiers that I did are down in tier four, largely because they haven't played. A lot of people just hate Euro four until you've played more. But they're like number 25 and 26 out.

of 30 according to the consensus of 50. Randy would move them up into tier three and have them be like 15th and 16th overall. That's where like Jared Goff and Russell Wilson are right now. So I would love to hear the explanations for that. Let's start with Kenny Pickett. Well, and you said it. I like Kenny Pickett coming out. I'm not anchored on those feelings, but what I saw last year, especially the last six weeks, was really good. I think the Steelers progressed as an offense for the first time in a couple of years. I think, think Pickett, the game really slowed down for him the last month of the season. I think he gets it. He has the instincts. He has the anticipation. He can sit in the pocket and make all the throws. He can

also get away from trouble. So some of the same things that I saw at University of Pitt have now carried over for him. I just think he's progressing at a rate that he finished the season to me as a tier three quarterback. So where the actual ranking goes, you know, I mean, I think he's a tier three guy based on what I've seen so far. So you would take Kenny Pickett over Russell Wilson right now all day. Yes, definitely would do it. And that sounds crazy and people may laugh at that, but I'm trying to build something for the future as well. And I think Russell Wilson, and maybe we'll talk about him, but it will be better this year. I mean, God forbid, how can he be any worse? He'll be better this year based on Peyton and the system around him. But I think Pickett is a top half of the league

starting quarterback for sure. Yes. Okay. And then Jordan Ludd. we have a lot less to go on. I know you've been pretty bullish on what Green Bay's built there, just with their roster. What do you think about love and why would you move him solidly into Tier 3 with some guys who played a lot more? I just see the potential, and I think they see it, obviously, because one, traded up to get him and two have moved off of Aaron Rogers now so he can play.

I've seen enough. I think they've seen enough. I thought I laughed when I heard Mark Murphy say, well, the president of the Packers, we need half a season and we'll be able to tell you what, Jordan Love, he's been there three years already. I mean, I understand it's not game-like conditions every day. I understand that. But why would you put a timeline on anything for starters? That's a whole other discussion. But the fact that he wants to see him for half the year, and frankly,

I don't really care what Mark Murphy says. I mean, he's the president of Packers. I get it. But that's not where I'm going to look to for my advice on team building per se. So that being said, I think Jordan Love has all of the criteria to move to Tier 3 right now. And some of that's based on some of the tier, some of the guys around him in your rankings. I just think he's better then. And I've seen enough to have evidence to back it. So again, maybe it's just me. I like that flavor.

I'm not convinced that he's as polished as he will be. So I see some upside as well. And I think you're going to see a guy now with the shadow of Aaron Rogers. out of there, a guy that could flourish like a flower. And I think that's what we're going to see. Now, that's not to say he's not going to have some ups and downs this year. I think Jordan Lowe will have plenty of ups and downs. But as you just mentioned, I like their team around him. And I think this is, if Joe Barry can get the defense on the same page, I think this team is definitely going to overachieve where Vegas has them on wins and losses for sure. That's excellent. So I do want to talk

about the Russell Wilson a little bit. That'll be the last guy we can talk about here in tier three. Maybe it'll segue us into that Sean Payton thing if we don't talk about any other quarterbacks. But so Russell Wilson in the quarterback tiers, Randy, he's been in it for the whole, you know, for many times. If you go back to going into the 2020 season, he had 100% tier one votes. He was 50 out of 50. The next year, he had 40 out of 50 in tier one. The year after that, he had 15 out of 50. And this is a 10. And this is a 10. here he has zero out of 50s. So even though it was a big one-year drop-off, there's been a perceived decline that goes back before that. There's just probably one of the reasons the CX felt okay about

maybe getting rid of him a year earlier than maybe others would have. In fact, in retrospect, they probably would have traded him even a year before that. If they could have, if the cap would have. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and all of that. So they moved on from him. He had a disaster year. Obviously, it wasn't a great situation on the coaching front. No one acquitted themselves very well. But now here comes in Sean Payton. I have a couple thoughts on this, but I'm curious if how much better you think that Russell Wilson is going to be? And do you think he's going to be the quarterback there for the, for more than this next

season? Loaded questions. I'll try not to load my answers too much. But I guess that's why you're good at what you do, right? You know how to load the questions up. That's a lot. I mean, that's probably a podcast. just to talk about, and we've had a few in the past to talk about Russell Wilson.

Peyton is going to make him better. I have no doubt in my mind he's going to give him more information to compute and process, to allow him to get the ball out quicker, to allow him to live in a more structured world. The question I have is, can Russell Wilson live in a more structured world? He has made plays with his legs forever. He has made plays off schedule and out of the pocket. forever and that's kind of what made Russ cook, right? Just let him go. In this, in Peyton's world, it is a more defined, targeted scheme, in my opinion. He's going to have to sit in the pocket

and get things out on time. His vision is always been a little bit of an issue, but Sean worked with a six-foot quarterback in New Orleans for many years, so he'll understand that. Do I think Russell Wilson will be better, yes, I don't think he can be any worse. And to not get a single vote in your exercise of anybody that thinks Russell is even a tier two quarterback now is a struggle, you know? He got some twos, but he didn't get, he didn't get any ones. Yeah, I just, I don't know. I mean, they paid Jared Stidim, I believe, $17 million to come there.

That seems to me like a little bit of a hedging of my bet. I am worried for Wilson. Yeah. To answer your question, I think he's on their team. They're obligated to keep him because of what they paid for him in compensation and what they paid for him in salary. But it doesn't mean he has to play. And that's why I think they went out and bought Stidim to come there as the backup.

See, I agree. And I think it's been established that Sean Payton is not going to be blamed for things going less than. what he wants to do. And while in New Orleans, he is known for being with Drew Breeze. I thought he did a nice job. Having packages and even starting Taysson Hill, they won games with Teddy Bridgewater,

and they won games with Winston, and they had adapted things. It wasn't obviously exactly what they did with Drew Breeze, so maybe he can adapt things. But I think he will want it to be about his system more than a lot of better coaches. We've seen some of these other coaches like Philadelphia or even took a while for Chicago, to kind of swallow their pride and change the offense around the quarterback they have. I don't see Sean Payton doing that.

And I think if it doesn't go well, he's all about sending these messages and showing that he's the sheriff. Like he'll change the quarterback during the season. I would almost, if I had to bet a lot of money and just had to pick one side, Russell Wilson starts the whole year, if healthy, or Russell Wilson gets bench during the year, I might lean towards the bench side. What about you?

Really? At some point during the year, at some point. Yeah. I think it's going to depend on the success of the team. I think it is, you know, and we're going to talk about this, but the reasoning behind Sean blurting out what he did, I think is to protect Russell Wilson.

I think the attention that Russell was allowed to have a year ago was very harmful for Russell's reputation and from a team-building exercise, and everybody learned from it. I think if they hit the skids at any period of time where the ball's not coming out and the system isn't being run, he's not going to have the same patience level as anybody else. After all, Sean Peyton didn't sign him. He didn't give up all these things to get him. So I do think that you're probably right in that if I was going to lean one way or another,

I'd probably lean that he does not start 17 games for a couple of reasons. For performance reasons at some point. That's what I think is a good chance of happening because Peyton's not invested in him. He's not, and he's going to want to do it his way. And there will be bumps in the road. It's a difficult division. And there's going to be, he's already talking about, you know, I'll be disappointed if we're not a playoff team and all that stuff. So there's going to be a lot of accountability at that quarterback position, don't you think? 100%. And it doesn't help matters that he's already lost Tim Patrick, Hamler, um,

yeah, tools that I think would have helped further the cause. Here's one thing that, that I was sold on the fact that I think Sean knows they need help and especially at the receiver position. His first pick as a Denver Bronco head coach was a receiver. Now, it wasn't a first round pick, but that was their first rounder.

Yeah. So that tells me he knows they're trying to, they're trying to, to, to, to, oh, put more people on the field that can make plays for that offense to succeed. That's a worry of his. He wouldn't have picked a receiver if he wasn't worried about that group anyway. And I think that doesn't bode well for the success of Russell going forward. I just don't know that the weapons are going to be what some people have said they were the last three or four years.

I haven't seen it. Yes. So before we get to that Peyton, Sean Peyton and Jets commentary, the last part here, low in tier four, Randy kind of put, little asterix by Sam Howell and Desmond Ritter. We'll just set Gardner Minshue to the side because we know he's not going to be their long-term starter. But you had actually put, you know, kind of a tier five on them, which is seldom used, but basically means I don't think they're a starter. And in Washington's case in particular, tough for you to figure out how they can be doing this with Sam Howell, right?

Well, it's tough for me. It's obviously not tough for Ron Rivera. He's willing to stake his whole future on it. I surely couldn't see enough in the one game that he played. And I went back and looked, Mike. I tried to see what they see. Now, maybe they see a lot in practice that I don't see. I get it.

I could not stake my future on Sam Howe. I just, I didn't see any of the juice that they talk about. Now, maybe the intangibles are so off the charts that that elevates him in their eyes. Frankly, I didn't see that at North Carolina either. So I don't know. You and I talked a little bit about this. It's almost as if Ron has made a decision like this based on the fact he has a lifetime contract. I couldn't do that.

I couldn't do that. I couldn't commit that kind of collateral of everybody in the building and put it on the plate of Sam Hal. I just couldn't do it. Now, maybe Sam Hal turns out to be a good player. I just couldn't commit this kind of, from what I know now, I couldn't commit to having him as the guy at this point. I'm thinking about Eric Bienaimi, who's waited this whole time to get out from Andy Reed Shadow and have a chance to coordinate an offense. And you give him Sam Howe with Jukovia Berset as a backup.

And Berset's an excellent backup. I mean, he's solid as a backup. But I get the feeling that both those guys are going to start games for this team this year, one way or the other. And it's not a real way to showcase everything that I'm sure Bienmi wants to do after, you know, being in the middle of the meetings with Biont. Patrick Mahomes, tough, tough going. I just think the credibility of putting Sam Howe out there affects the decision makers in the locker room.

And again, I don't want to be dramatic about it, but that's a struggle for me to look those veteran guys in the eye, especially those guys on defense that finally got things sorted out toward the end of the last year. Their defense finally played better under Jack Del Rio. And now we're going to go with Sam Howell. This is what we're going to do. As a player, I'm just kind of my body language. probably wouldn't be as good as the coaches would like it, that's for sure. Yeah.

All right. Let's share a couple of thoughts. I know it's been practically a week since Sean Payton said what he said about a lot of people. He took some shots in a piece that ran in USA Today. Some of it was at the existing leadership or previous leadership in Denver, including their current general manager, George Payton, was kind of criticized. And then Nathaniel Hackett was pretty much Savage, the former coach, who is now the offensive of coordinated for the New York Jets.

After that, Aaron Rogers came back and basically said, hey, Sean Payton's insecure. And keep my coach's words out of his mouth, kind of a nice little illusion there to Will Smith. You know, keep my wife's name out of your mouth. It was frankly awesome to me to see. I mean, talk about like talking back in class. It was like Sean Payton's a teacher and the student in the back was Aaron Rogers. And he just stood up and said, why don't you just take a seat, teacher? And he's one of the few students who could do that, really, with the credibility to do it.

So what did you think about the whole thing? A couple of things that, bum-pum, bum-pum was that bus backing up over everybody in the building in Denver. And not only did he back up over everybody, then he put it in drive and went forward again over him. So, yeah, it was not good. I wouldn't want to have to face that being George Payton. The first thing I thought of, Mike, was I wonder if Sean told these guys ahead of time he was going to do this. But apparently he did not. Apparently it caught him off guard.

Hey, these are things that some of us have thought and some of us maybe kick around on the bar stool with our buddies when we're having a beer. It's just not something you'd go public with. So I probably fault Sean's judgment. I can't fault his thinking because he didn't say anything really that wasn't true. You just would hope he'd find a better way to express it. But I also know Sean. And some of the things that make Sean good, at his job is that he's never going to not say.

You know, he's never going to not say. And maybe he'd have been better off not saying this. The comeback from the Jets is what it is. I mean, I think what Sean's really saying is that the Jets have embraced the attention that Aaron Rogers has brought them. And they've, I mean, let's face it, they had Dalvin Cook at training camp last week for two days walking around and every social media person in the world had it going viral and he still hasn't signed with him. So what's to make about that? So you can fault what the Jets are doing, I think,

a little bit. But why would you have to say all this stuff? So I find I struggle with that a little bit, but I know Sean and you just got to know who you're dealing with there. And hey, he's he's going to take the majority of the air out of the room in Denver. And frankly, I don't think that's a bad thing because we're not hearing from Russell Wilson, who did the same thing a year ago. I bet when he said it, he wasn't planning to apologize the next day. Probably not. Yeah, no doubt. That was interesting to me.

Yeah. Who makes Sean Payton apologize? I mean, the only one who could do would be the owners, right? Yeah. Do you know anything about that? That was interesting to me. Yeah, I don't know. Well, I was just, I was just looking at it from afar going.

I just didn't think he would, nothing about Sean Payton has made me think that there was going to be a moment of contrition. I don't think it was something. grand plan to say it knowing you're going to apologize the day later. That was just interesting to me. That was a little interesting. The other thing was interesting was the dynamic of this that is really interesting to me is Rogers comments, these teams play together. Rogers kind of coming back and saying, hey, sounds like Peyton's setting the table for when

they don't do well this season. That was interesting to me because Aaron Rogers is friends with Nathaniel Hackett. These guys are friends. Well, who knows even more about the prospects of the Broncos with Russell Wilson than Sean Peyton does? In Hackett. Yeah, that's right. You think Nathaniel Hackett has told Rogers about everything that was there in Denver and what he thinks the prospects are and he thinks what he thinks what Sean Payton's in for this year based on how it went for him? That was kind of the interesting part, just the way that Rogers kind of looked at.

The way he looked and was so confident that it almost sounded like he didn't think Denver was going to be good. That was kind of interesting to me. Yeah, I think that's a great observation by you. I hadn't thought through that like that, but no doubt. He has informed Aaron Rogers with everything he knows and has about Denver, obviously. About Denver, yeah. And he knows as much as anybody about what went wrong last year. And, of course, Hackett was a part of that, but there was more to it than that, obviously.

Okay, another interesting situation is we hit the home stretch. and some of these would probably be normally in the GM notebook. We don't have one actually written down this week, but you guys can always look for that in the future because it's one of the fun parts of the show. But if there were a second item, that Jonathan Taylor versus Jim Ursaid thing, Randy, is bizarre. It seems like there's been a personality approach makeover

since Jonathan Taylor got a new agent, and then Jim Mersey's the same guy. And he's always going to be the same guy. I thought it was interesting. I followed up with some clips this morning when I knew we were going to talk about this. And some of the things that came out of Jonathan Taylor's mouth in April are, hey, I'm the one that put the pen to pen to paper. I signed this deal. I'm going to hang in there.

My time's coming. I'm not worried about the contract. And now all of a sudden, this just been a lot of, I won't say misinformation, but confusing information from, you know, wear him and, and Erce met to, is this kid practicing? Is he not practicing? Does he have a back injury? Does he not have a back injury? What list is that they put him on? Just a lot of confusion in and around everything. Is he a hold in? Is he a hold out? You know, I don't have the answers for that. Maybe you do. I'm just having trouble sorting out the facts. That's all. The facts to me are that Jonathan Taylor has no choice but to play this season. He's not kind of sad out. I agree with that. If he wants to get paid. Would he miss a certain amount of games, you know, and all of that play that whole. thing. Now, you've been through that in your career. I mean, Joey Galloway did that with the Seahawks. Got estranged, got sideways, and he ended up missing games and coming in just to get the qualifying year. This is just kind of a bizarre thing. Now, how do you think about it in the context of Shane Steichen's trying to have a new program here, all of what they went through last year that

had to be really unsettling with the owner and Jeff Saturday? You have a rookie quarterback who probably wouldn't mind having someone good to handoff to. Are there implications for this that could really negatively affect any of those big picture things? Or no, Taylor's just going to have to come in and this will all blow over by September 1st. I think the implications are that the Colts aren't willing to reward anybody in that building for what has happened. So let's just say some of that was last year, was Saturday, was the fact that they reeled off loss after loss. that most would think the team has underachieved. Jonathan Taylor himself didn't have a great year last year.

He missed some time. So he's got reasons to give doubt to others about his long-term prognosis as well. So there's just not enough body of work to say all of a sudden, hey, let's give this guy 10 or 12 million a year. There's no way that's going to happen. And Ursay knows that. Now, he may have said this to him straight out. I don't think Jim Ursay is one that's going to beat around the bush. because frankly, I don't think he cares.

I think he's just going to say what it is. He said, hey, if I'm gone tomorrow, the league's going on. He's a very matter-of-fact guy. He even said if Taylor were to never play again, the league goes on, that's not what you say, is it? It might not be, but it's true. I'm just saying they're not in a mood. They're not in a mood in Indianapolis to pay a running back any more than they have to. And why would they?

They don't have to. It's like you just said, if he wants to get paid, he's going to come and play for this number. where it goes after that, I don't know. I don't think his value can be determined other than I would say this. The last 10 years, no team who has won a Super Bowl has had the leading rusher come in with a cap number of over $2 million. So why would they reward this guy? Why would anybody reward really running back? And we're seeing that around the league.

So I just don't think there's a priority enough for them to all of a sudden say, hey, I know we were bad last year. I know we're off and stunk. I know we've got a new coach now. So let's go ahead and pay Jonathan Taylor. He's the one shining light. Yeah. I just don't see why. And now, look,

Eursay could be absolutely enraged by something that happened by in the scenes. Like we said, there's a new agent for Taylor. There's surely things have happened we don't know about. But I think all you have to say is, hey, look, we're not paying anyone around here until we actually do something. Yes, exactly.

That's all of us. We're not extending the Chris Ballard. We're not, although they did that recently a couple of a year or two ago. But you would just say, and we'll pay everyone in due time. Jonathan Taylor, to quote Jonathan Taylor, he signed a contract and he's been great for us. And he's going to keep being great for us and we'll take care of them. End of story. I just think there's some unawareness either by him or his agent to demand anything coming off a year that this, frankly, the franchise was embarrassed.

It was bad. So why would anybody be rewarded for what's happened? Yep. Finally, our last item here is the Joe Burrow calf injury, which everyone breathes a sigh of relief when, you know, it wasn't a more serious injury in ACL or anything like that. But Randy, I'd like you to share, you know, just in your experience, why this calf injury is a concern for Burrow and for the Bengals this season. I thought it was interesting. We talked a little bit about this before the show. I thought it was interesting. We talked a little bit about this before the show. I thought it was. was pretty interesting. Well, I do think it is a relief that it wasn't an ACL or something like that, but I do have concerns about this. This is his plant leg. It's a leg that affects every throw he makes. The right calf is really the bread and butter by which the base fundamentals in your lower body commit to making throws. He's going to need that. It's like if you or I were to have a lower back injury. It affects everything we do. Well, guess what? That right calf affects everything a quarterback does as well.

So when he plans to step up, when he plans to drive the ball, when he does anything, that right calf can't be 80%. It's not like a hamstring where we could play at 80%. We could play it maybe at 70%. Guess what? We're just not going to run fast, but we can still play. I don't think you can play with a calf at 80%. I just don't. I don't think that, I think he would be a total sitting duck and a statue back there, and nobody's going to have any chance to succeed with that. And I'm not saying this guy's going to miss a whole bunch of time, but I think it's a six or eight-week injury. I'm no doctor, but I've stated a few holiday ends, and I've been around enough to know that this is going to be something that they've got to get right to 100% before he rolls back out there. That may be a couple months. So yeah, it's concerning for me.

Do you have long-term durability concerns about him? You know, Joe Burrow was 49, of 50 ballots in Tier 1, basically almost a consensus tier 1 player this year. We love him. But one of the things more than one person said was in the end, his body's going to let him down because, you know, I don't know if it's his body structure, but he takes hits. He stands in there and takes some hits. What do you think about that? Are you worried about him? I don't think anybody could have withstand the punishment that he did his first year. Now, they've tried to address because I think the offensive line's been bad. And that's no secret. We're not establishing new ground here.

I think that's pretty much the word around the league. Everybody would conclude the same thing. So that bothers me. He took a beating. And I agree, he will stand in there. He'll take hits. I think he's going to have to be better at getting the ball out quicker and living to fight another day and not trying to win the war on any particular play.

So I do think there's some of that in there. Now, they've tried to address that. They signed the tackle from the chiefs this year to play left tackle for them. That's probably a little bit of an upgrade. but I worry about the upfront caliber of players that they have, and that indeed reflects on the health of Joe Burrough. So, you know, maybe I have a little more worry about him compared to some other guys in the league.

I would say Joe's athletic enough to get away from people, but you just don't want to make a steady diet of that, having to live on the edge all the time, especially if you've got a guy that he's already blown out his ACL. Now he's got this. You know, he's only been around, what, four years? So there's some concern. I could see how people would have that doubt in the back of their mind a little bit on durability and longevity.

Yeah, hopefully he gets back and is fine. But, you know, there's such a small margin for error in the AFC. And like you said, if this affects your fundamentals or your ability to escape some of those things or become something you have to deal with throughout the season, that's no good for the Cincinnati Bengals. But, you know what? There's about 30 teams that would love to have Joe Burrow with his sore calf on their team. So no sympathy for Cincinnati. They've got a good one there.

We started out talking quarterbacks today, Randy, with the quarterback tears. We close talking about Joe Burrow. You got anything else? No, I think that's a pretty good wrap on a lot of things for not having played a preseason game yet, which, by the way, we will have a game or two or one game at least under our belt before when we talk again. Do you watch, how much preseason do you watch and what are you looking for? you watch a preseason game. Here's why I do watch.

I'll watch the fourth quarter. And maybe in this Hall of Fame game, I'll watch the second half, and I'm more interested in that. And some of that is my XFL ties, right? I'm looking to see who's going to get cut that I may like. And that's from an NFL scout's perspective. I grew up as a pro scout.

I was the Seattle director for 15 years. So I'm looking at every preseason game. I love to watch it. Here's how crazy I am. I'm going to get this film in at some point here in the next week or two these preseason games, I'll go right to the second half of every one of these and watch them and scour who may have stood out because I want to know who's a possible for practice squads. Yeah.

I like it. I love the preseason for probably different reasons than the rest of the fans and listeners, but I do enjoy watching the tape of guys who are relatively unknown and just seeing how they fit in when live bullets are flying. Why second half more than first half of games? That's the lower guys on the totem pole on depth chart. I want to see the guys that I know least about or that may or may not have a chance to make it at the end of the day. And again, just speaking from an XFL standpoint, some of the better players that we have on our team in Seattle for the XFL will be guys that get cut in the NFL.

It's the best probably quality of group that we'll have. And there'll be four or five of these guys that I find during preseason that will end up drafting later this fall. And people will see them next spring in the XFL. So do you just let the tape roll from play to play? Or do you have certain guys that you're already keyed in on? Do you watch a play three times? Or what's just kind of the process? I'd like to know.

I might watch a play six or eight times, Mike. And I'll have some guys on my list that I want to find. A lot of times, though, to start it out, I'll let it roll. And when somebody jumps out at me, then I'll say, well, wait a second, I got to hone in on this guy. And I may go back a few plays to when he entered the game. But I'm looking for somebody to jump out at me. And it may be as simple as, a receiver taking off the line of scrimmage and eating up a cushion quickly.

Yeah. Or it may be a strong safety that jumps in the box and wax the shit out of a running back in a goal line situation. Something like that, something that jumps out at me to give me a reason to watch more and do some research. Yeah. And then so you have like a notebook out or a laptop out. You're charting some things and putting down your notes. You've got kind of your system of doing it. Because there's a lot of games in the preseason, you know.

Will you watch all of them? You watch all the preseason? I'll watch as much as I physically can. It's not like I have a staff of 15 or 20 guys like each NFL team has. That's for sure. So I may wear down a little bit, but I enjoy it. And I'm not going to go read a book in preseason. I'm going to go watch a tape.

And like my daughter says, Dad, you're a hermit. You just sit around and watch in dark rooms. I say, well, story of my life, kid. That's what I like to do. That's how I would like to spend my time. It's great. Well, look forward to that. That's going to start on Thursday night.

Right. We got a ballgame and we'll go from there. So thanks everybody from coming along. We love doing this. You can find Randy and me, Mike Sando, on the athletic app. And you can find me on Twitter, or I guess it's X now, Twitter, X, whatever, at Sando NFL. Randy's at Randy Mueller underscore. We'll talk to you next time. This was The Athletic Football Show.