The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Football GM: workouts, contracts and kickoffs

Episode Date: March 30, 2024

Mike and Randy are back with another edition of the Football GM where they start their discussion on Michael Penix Jr's workout. Then we shift to Dak Prescott as he awaits a new contract. From there, the guys look at the various possibilities for teams in the draft. And lastly, we discuss the new kickoff rule along with other news that broke this week in the NFL. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast. Welcome, everybody. So the Football GM podcast, Mike Sando here, along with Randy Mueller, my teammate, not only on the football GM podcast, but at the athletic. Randy, how are you on this? What is it? One of the last Friday of March. Yeah, we're getting there, aren't we?

Before we know it, we'll be talking about draft stuff and not only talking about it, we'll be watching it. So glad to see you made it back from the league meetings. I know that was eventful down there. a tough, a tough straw that you drew. Yeah, I know. It's a tough assignment, you know. Yeah.

Tough assignment because, you know, the Orlando Ritz Carlton really is just not up to my standards for, you know, not that I stayed there, but just for lobby hanging out. You know, it's just, you know, you could spend about 12 bucks for water there. I don't know if you knew that, Randy. That sounds like New York to me. That's just another day in New York. Yeah, it's unbelievable. So, no, it was great.

Really good to see a lot of people in and around the least. League, including a bunch of our colleagues here at the Athletics. So I do love going to the league meetings. And it was not a tough assignment. It's a great assignment. But you mentioned that we're going to be talking about the draft. I feel like the draft conversation outside this podcast is fever pitch. I have never, I have actually, I've never been a big like muting, muter of people on X or Twitter.

because a lot of these mice follow them for a reason, but I've actually muted quite a few draft related accounts just because it's a little bit much. And it's hard for me to keep track of where I heard certain things. Hey, was that Mueller after his film breakdown? Was that the GM I was talking to? Or was that just one of a thousand people who have opinions on some of the stuff? I had to laugh, Randy, another day, another Drake May evaluation

where his prototypical size is front and center. as you taught me when that's the case beware but I've seen it a hundred times and now that you've said it I I've noticed that like a hundred times hey wow great velocity on that ball from from Drake may hey wow looks the part great size I think I think I may need another crash course in what type of things to look for on your radar when you hear to where you go yeah okay that's not really what it's about right well I get nervous and the first thing out of everybody's mouth is 6-4, 225. I get it.

I know that. But is that the best we can do? It's more than that people. I'm 6-4, Randy. I'm 6-4. Do you want me playing quarterback for you? Yeah, I love you, man, but probably not. Probably not.

But I hear it. You muting people reminds me of when I would run teams. And I think I've told our listeners many times, I would shut it all out for that last month. I couldn't watch TV. I couldn't listen to the radio. But nowadays it's even harder. And yes, I have respect for people that want to be heard and give their opinions.

I get it. But the problem is, and this could be my problem, it's maybe a personal problem with my P brain. I can't debunk everything. And I can't take it as gospel unless I can debunk it and make it make sense. And so I don't have time in my mind for that. So I end up like you, I'll unfollow or mute or whatever anybody that bogs me down with what I consider something that I've not that they're wrong. It's just that I've got to think it through. And I spend all my day thinking, I'll just say it's thinking shit through and my day's gone. So I can't do that.

Yeah, absolutely. And so that's why I can't wait to get to our rankings when we go through those. You think we'll start maybe next week? Maybe we start next week. Yeah, I think so. I'm working on a little project that has taken, as you know, a lot of my time in free agency. For the Athletic, we came through with a whole bunch of lists that people have loved. And now we're going to come out with one next week for 2025, a little bit of a precursor as to who may be free agents. So yeah, I'll be done with that this weekend. And yes, we can hone in on some draft talk and some actual rankings of players. And hopefully we can maybe pass a few nuggets along to people, not only about players, but maybe what NFL teams are looking for in particular and kind of setting that criteria.

Yep. One thing I did want to get into just kind of newswise here as we lead off is some of these pro days, which we talked about before, but one, and I've been properly coached, Randy, not to get too excited about Sam Bradford lighting up the field or Drake May or whoever it is, having a great workout. But I was, one that did catch my attention here was the Michael Pennock's workout for University of Washington. It was funny. I had seen, I saw a picture showing Brian Daibel, I think the coach of the Giants at the workout. And I was like, God, I just saw him like 12 hours ago at the meetings. These guys are really flying around. The contingents are all over the place.

There's definitely value in going. But Pennick's got my attention because we've all known, you know, really pretty polished pocket passer at his best. I mean, that semi-final game, man, he looked like a pro quarterback if you've ever seen a pro quarterback. But he has not been known for his athleticism. He's had some injuries. And I think sometimes when you're known as a peer passer, your athleticism might be. undersold. If you're, if you are known for a runner, then sometimes your passing is undersold, right? You, you become known for a certain thing that is your strength. But this guy, Michael

Penix runs, I think he ran his 40 in the four-fives. He had a 36 and a half inch vertical with no step. Hey, Randy, Kobe Bryant had a 38 inch vertical. So I would have not, you know, just watching Michael Pennix play, I would have, might have guessed he had a 30-inch vertical or just wasn't quite as explosive as an athlete. We know these things can be overrated. in a pro day sort of a thing. But did that move the needle for you at all with him, just given that he wasn't really known? Or does this line up with maybe what you've seen on film

and it's not that big of a deal? Well, I think it's mentionable because the fact that you said it, we're known for what we do. They're known for what they do. And Michael Pennix is not known for taking off and run. And although you see him do it occasionally, I was taken back by the numbers too.

What it does do is really the numbers and the things that you test for at Pro Days are really nothing. more than comparative on paper with other position players at your position. And so that's what these scouts are doing now as you're running around the country, gathering all these numbers so we can compare them with each other, apples to apples. So yes, it was impressive what he did. It did surprise me.

I think how you equate it to his game, I really don't know because I think you're right. He is a pocket passer at his purest, and I could watch him throw all day long, but I don't know what to do with the fact that he can jump 36 or whatever it was you said. So I think it's great information to have. It's not going to move the needle on my evaluation other than to say if we did do some things from a scheme standpoint where he had to design a run or two, he might be more adept at doing it than we thought before. So maybe a little bit. But I would say this.

If he ran a five flat and had a 20 inch vertical, some of the things we feared or thought about him, could be enhanced to where you're like, yeah, that makes it tough for me to get on board as much. Would that be true if he had really bad numbers? That would be true. And I would take it a step further in that if he was going to run slow or not jump, guess what? He wouldn't have done it. And so the red flag for me goes up with those who don't do that for whatever reason, who decide not to work out, and I always have in the back of my mind, well,

and in case and point I'm thinking about as Marvin Harrison, Jr., if he didn't run and didn't want to do some of these things, hmm, why? Why not? If he was good at it, you think you'd jump into it and want to compete and be compared on paper, but he wasn't. So I don't know. It's a fine line. I think we have a lot of time to manipulate numbers, to help us, either prove the point that we saw on film or not. I do think this, these pro days, and I'll throw the combine workouts in this category as well, what I find is I would see something

that I would then want to go back and verify on film or that I couldn't verify on film. And so that's why they were semi-important for me. But in almost every case, it sends me back to the film room for a reason. And therefore, what I saw in a workout isn't going to move the meter unless I can confirm it or not on tape.

And so that's really what it does for me. Yeah, but you could go trying to look for what you think you should find, right? You've got to be careful you don't see something just because you watch the workout. Yeah, no, I agree. That's why you've got to go back and see it on tape or else what, I mean, again, what difference does it make if panics can jump 36? I guess it proves some explosiveness in those legs. He's got some bounce.

He's more explosive athletically than maybe we thought. but if you never see it in his game, I don't know what you do with it. I mean, it's like the tree fall in the middle of the forest. Does it make a noise or not? We're not there to hear it, you know. Yeah, what he's saying is, look, the reason I didn't do this wasn't because I can't.

It's just because I didn't have to. This is the way we played. And I had, you know, maybe he didn't need to. He could maybe say he didn't need to. Didn't need to because he's got a good offensive line at the college level. He's got really maybe the best receivers in the college game. What's it going to run around for? But if I'm drafting him, I want to know if he could,

A little bit. And there's definitely some flashes, I'm sure, in the games when he's taken off running and done some things. But I just thought that was interesting. Hey, he's a little bit of a wild card. I know we're not doing the rankings here, but I've heard some people I know we both respect, you know, in the game and some who are no longer in the game but still look at the quarterbacks, have him pretty darn high among their guys. And I think I remember at the Super Bowl, I think I was interviewed by someone, Boston. in media and I just was a little bit, you know, talking out of thin air a little bit. I really probably could have been wrong in saying it, but I was speculating that he may

go higher than people think. I just would have a hard time of seeing him not be in the first round and maybe even be in the first half of the first round. Am I crazy, Randy? Well, I would say this, and I think we've couched it this way on the podcast, and I know I do when I get asked about it. With his physical skills and he's passing ability, 100%. He is a first round NFL passer. It's the medical stuff for me that might drag him out of the first round. You know, three of his seasons of his six have ended due to injury.

And that's a problem. You know, that's. Yeah. Yeah, you can say it's cyclical and maybe he's due to have healthy seasons now, but it's still a factor because he has gotten hurt. And that's in the back of your mind. But if I was going to watch somebody pass the ball, I'd pay to watch him. passed the ball. You know, he was at the Senior Bowl this year, a week that I attended myself as well.

I've seen him play live a couple times in person. And I do think your exposure to him in person is even more impressive than when you watch on tape. I could just watch that. He's an NFL passer and that's hard. People are saying, oh, of course he is. Of course he is. But an NFL passer is different than a quarterback who just throws the ball. It's a different. It's like a, it's like Ted Williams as a hitter. It's different than when you'd watch him pose to other hitters in Major League Baseball. And I think Pennix is a cool passer of the ball. He has natural trajectory. He has natural velocity. He has a natural spin that I think makes a great catchable ball. And I just think he has an instinct about how to throw certain balls. He can layer him in. He does a lot of things

that I just enjoy watching. So I loved my time at the Senior Bowl. And, found myself on practices most days waiting and following Pennix around just to watch him pass the ball. Well, and I'm saying we saw, there's been a lot made recently about the draft class from a couple years ago where all, almost all these guys other than Brock Purdy have sort of busted out, you know, whether it was, you know, Trey Lance or Justin Fields, these guys, you're telling me that, I mean, I would guarantee in that draft class if Pennix was in that class, you would have liked him better than Mack Jones and these, a bunch of these other guys, you wouldn't, that you weren't going to take as high as they wind up being taken. That's why in my mind, I'm like, if they can take

Mac Jones as high as they took them, why aren't they taking this guy? I can't wait to see how it comes together. Yeah, I think you're right. I think he is an intriguing guy for that reason, but we also have to caution ourselves, throwing in practice, throwing in workouts. It's different when guys are trying to take your head off when you're standing in a pocket. And there was some, there were some games. He did it, but there were some games where you kind of wish that. You there was better results, that's all. And not all on him, I get it. But I'm just saying it's different than watching him pass outside in the yard all day long.

That's kind of cool, too. But it is a little different when we're playing 11 on 11, and there's real bullets flying all over the place. Gotcha. Okay, one of the things you said there is a good segue into our next topic. The idea that his injury history, you know, is going to factor here and hurt his value in the draft. Dak Prescott, Randy, proved that in the NFL a catastrophic injury. is not a death sentence for your contract and your future.

Kirk Cousins has proved that again this offseason. He had an Achilles. You wouldn't really know it by the $45 million a year he's going to get from Atlanta. But DAC has been in the news a little bit here, Randy, because as we've watched Free Agency happen, and we know Free Agency, in most cases, doesn't move the needle enough to change the Super Bowl odds or really remake teams in one off season.

But the Cowboys have done almost nothing. I mean, they've really done nothing. And part of the reason they got some contracts coming down the, you know, coming down the pipe here that they're going to have to deal with. Dak Prescott in the news a little bit because he's going to need a new contract. He has provisions in his deal to where he could become a free agent without being franchise tagged, without being traded. But it's crickets. Randy, it sounds like there may not be a deal for DAC. This is something I think we should talk about because.

because typically, you know, quarterbacks don't reach the market. We saw that Kirk Cousins did. I'd put Cousins in a little bit of a different category maybe than Prescott, but maybe he doesn't need to be. Maybe they're similar. Right. Well, I think everybody assumed Dak would get a deal because his cap number for 2024 is way up there, right?

And so everybody thought, well, they got to reduce that, so they have to sign him to a new deal. I'm not sure I've seen a player over the last 10 years for sure that has, had more leverage within a set of negotiating parameters, really a window over the last five or six years, than Dak Prescott. His leverage is off the chart. You mentioned it. No cap, no trade, no tag, no trade. Really, if Dak Prescott wants to be a free agent, nobody can stop that. He can do that without, he just tunes it all out, has a good year. He's probably going to get 50 million. We just saw what Kirk Cousins got.

And I would say that DAC is at a level higher than that at this point in his career, even at age 32. So, yeah, I think he's already proved he's willing to let the dice roll on a one-year deal. I don't know how they solve this. I know this. There's two or three quarterbacks who, as we sit here today, the end of March, are scheduled to be free agents a year from now. Now, there may be tags involved. There may be ways that guys overpay prior to free agency. next year, but DAC isn't part of that. He is going to be free unless Jerry writes the check.

And that's kind of why I said last year during the season, Mike, I don't know if you remember this, when they got hot and they were on a little bit of a roll and they had to buy during a year, I thought they ought to sign him right then because they have really no option. They don't have another plan. The Tray Lance trade doesn't give them any more leverage. However, for whatever reason they made that. So I think right now they've got one year for a succession plan to to appear before our eyes. We'll see. And what's made it hard is the cap number being what it is.

It's really limited what they can put around him. Because I think the Cowboys are a worse team now than when they lost to the Packers in the playoffs. No doubt about it. So what if I made you the GM of the Cowboys right now, Jerry Jones would be very unhappy to not be the GM anymore. But you're sitting there picking 24th, okay? What if Michael Pennix is there at 24? Would you consider making that type of a move? Because I feel like if I'm a GM, I don't love doing it the Viking way.

The Vikings are getting rid of Kirk Cousms before they have a guy. Now, they may draft a guy this year, but that's not a done deal. I think typically it's nice to move on, move away from Alex Smith when you have Patrick Poems. It's nice to move away from Tony Romo when you already have Dak Prescott. It's nice to move away from Aaron Rogers when you already have Dr. Poncexon. Jordan Love. I don't necessarily like moving on from Dak Prescott. When I have Tray Lance, I got nothing there. Would you consider that type of a move picking 24? We've seen 24 might even be the same slot Aaron Rogers with picked in, was it? It was close to that? Pretty close. Yeah,

pretty close. What do you think about that type of a move if you were Dallas and just said, hey, look, we need options. We really like this guy. And we may, you know, we may need to play them. And if we do, we'll have a huge salary slot. Then you'll see maybe a little bit of the old Cowboys who spent in free agency and did that sort of a thing. Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to that. I mean, with all due respect to Cooper Rush, who has been the backup there for the last couple years, I could surely see a future with a guy like Panics, especially if you sat him next year and be willing to pass the baton after that.

Yeah, I think there's a good chance Pennix might be there. Is there risk involved? Sure. Does it hurt the rest of your team build? Maybe. because that's really, with that first round pick, that's the only way they can add an impact player because they've proved that because of the cap,

they can't go out and spend the money, so they can't add a free agent off the street. They're going to have to do it through the draft. So you're giving up, say, a pass rusher or an offensive lineman or a defensive lineman by taking penics, but you may not have a choice. And you know the best time to find a quarterback, right, is when you don't need one.

And so that might be the time. You're picking 24th overall, Randy. Here's the last 10, 24th overall picks. Deonté Banks, Tyler Smith, Najee Harris, Caesar Ruiz, Josh Jacobs, DJ Moore, Gary and Conley, William Jackson, DJ Humphreys. I don't know if that's 10. Darquez Dynard. Bjorn Werner, you want him from the Colts in 2013?

David DeCaster, there's some good ones. Des Bryant shoot was a cowboy pick. So there's some good players in there, Chris Johnson, explosive running back if you go back further. Aaron Rogers, by the way, was the 24th pick of the 2005 draft, so I can't find my keys or wallet, but I know who the 24th pick was in the 2005 draft. Wife's very pleased with that, by the way. But I think the odds of you drafting 24th and getting someone who really changes your team are less than 50 percent, if you're the Cowboys, especially this year.

If you're talking about how to we help our team this year, okay, you're going to get a run-plugging defensive tackle. Is that kind of what they need or whatever their need is? don't know if you're going to get that. I think a Pennix thing would be interesting. Let's flip it around. If you're Dak Prescott, Randy, Deck Prescott after this year,

just looking at these career earnings after the season, he's going to have $196 million in career earnings, right? I would totally play this thing out of Fire Room. I think it would just be kind of fun to do. He's set up, but he could really have options for the first time. I think he plays for an owner who sort of flauntless, the fact that he's a billionaire and he's the decision maker and he's in charge.

You know what? If I'm Dak Prescott, I'd love to have a little leverage over Jerry Jones. Yeah, two can play this game. I've made almost $200 million. Let's just let it play out. Well, there's no doubt he has the leverage. Let me ask you this question. And I don't, maybe it's not fair to throw this at you.

Do you remember where Dak was in your quarterback tiers the last couple of years? Yeah. He's, he hovers right around 10 to 12, you know, in there. So not in tier one, probably in top of tier two or two? kind of in the upper half of tier two, middle of tier two, you know. Maybe a not, he's going to be behind a Matthew Stafford, but he's going to be ahead of a Kirk Cousins. Right. So I think most probably view him as a very good starter, has some Pro Bowl qualities,

but not always a difference maker, not always elite, right? Yeah. So I think we kind of know what he is. And the next question is, if you're going to pay that, and I think it's going to be more than 50, if you're going to pay that $55 million, what kind of a team can you put around him? So that's the big question is, for the 10th or 12th best quarterback in the league,

you definitely got to look for some options. I'll say that. I'm not sure I have an answer for him, but I would definitely look at every option I can, and you're definitely on the clock now, and you have a year to solve it in my mind. Well, I was going to say, you know, he needs to go to the NSC South

because that's the Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins League. But with Bryce Young and Baker Mayfield signed there, maybe that's not going to happen. Maybe the Saints, maybe he'll be the next Derek card. No. I don't know where he would go, but he would have a market is the point. So, yeah, why not play it out if you're him? Now, also if you're him, he's not going to just take a super low cap number and take a pay cut to help the team because the team's still just going to do what they're going to do anyway.

They may not even use it for players to help you out. So I got no problem with him playing it out and seeing what he can get. And I actually do find it a little bit entertaining given, like I said, how Jerry Jones likes to position himself. I just find it interesting that the Cowboys for me are a team that can't wait to overpay their own people. And usually they do it way ahead of time, way before they have to. And in this case, the star of their team, the quarterback, has had to wait in line the longest to be rewarded. And that happened in the last couple deals as well. So I just think that the longer they've waited, the worst the deal is going to be.

And even though Jerry came out last week and said, we've spoken to DAC and we're all in agreement on where his contract is and the situation, all that. That sounds great. But to me, DAC holds all the cards. So we'll see. Yep, absolutely. I've got a few additional thoughts on that. I'll get into it. I think I'm going to have a piece coming up this next week on looking at some stuff in Free Agency.

I'll save that for then. As far as free agency this year, a lot of people love Randy's top 150 free agents when it came out. Most of these deals are done, Randy. There's been some players cut. There's still a few players out there. I was looking at your piece that published this week on the best remaining free agents. You can find that under the headline, who are the best available NFL free agents? Justin Simmons, Kyle Dugger lead the list.

It's a telling list, 30 plus years old in most cases. But there's some guys who could fill. some needs. I'm not going to go through the order here. People can read the piece, but I broke a few of them down into positions. There's safety still out there. Justin Simmons, Kyle Dugger, Marcus May. There's some veteran offensive lineman, Andrews Pete, Chris Hubbard, Lakin Tomlinson. A couple of 30-plus pass rushers, Bud DePree, Kyle Van Neuie. If you want to detackle, man, Callais Campbell's out there, but he's 38 years old. OBJ, O'Dell Beckham's around. There's a couple of corners out there that you've heard of, Stefan Gilmore. If you're a GM at this point, Randy, just philosophically, do players like that appeal to you before the draft so you can have your needs kind of filled and feel like you can go in any direction you want? Or are you more waiting till after the draft, hey, there's going to be some of these guys then. Let's not spend some bad money. You never know what opportunity

might come in the draft. We'll reassess then. Where yet at this point is a GM when you're on the road now with these pro days and you're really doubted on the draft, are you a waiter or are you maybe a pre-draft need filler? Well, I think you're always looking for for deals and that's, you said it best, you've got to find value to make a deal. I think most GM's minds are on the draft now and post-draft. Now, you mentioned these players on this list that are still on the best available list are all 30 plus year old guys. That comes, you know, with the territory now. There are a couple of these guys that I think are really asking still for a lot of money, and that's why you haven't seen a deal happen.

Like Justin Simmons, to me, is still a really good player. I would have thought he'd have found a market and a fit by now. He hasn't. I just think probably because the financial part of it hasn't come together for him. It hasn't been what he thought it would be. But to answer your question, my thinking is I'm waiting until not only after the draft to sign these guys, I'm probably waiting until after June 1. Because as we know after June 1, these guys don't count as

compensatory in your compensatory volume of picks, right? So you've got to lose more than you sign, and if you sign guys after June 1, those players don't count against your compensatory total. So a lot of teams play the strategy game with the compensatory picks, and that means a lot to them. So no matter who's out there still right now, they may wait until this summer to sign them after the compensatory pool is equaled out. So I don't know if that makes sense, Mike, but that's probably where my thinking is unless I can find a really good value

that allows me to have checked a box before draft day. I don't think it's going to happen for the most part, but there might be a safety. We've even seen signings the last couple days still. You might see a safety or two sign before the draft because that is one that I would like to put the bed if I'm a GM and part of a team builder. That and an offensive lineman here or there.

But again, it comes down to money. Teams have spent a lot of money, as you know, in free agency the last couple weeks. So for the most part, I think we won't see these guys sign until after June 1. Yeah. Yep. Makes some sense to me. Staying on draft with a mix of free agency, but mostly on the draft, Arizona Cardinals haven't done a ton in free agency.

They've made a couple moves here or there, got themselves a tackle, got a little bit of help in the defensive line. but I like where they're at in this draft, Randy, because they've made it clear they're committed to Kyler Murray for better or worse, but their contract sort of binds him to them. And so they haven't been one of these teams that's maneuvering for one of the quarterbacks. They seem to be taking a long-range building plan here. But with Denver and Minnesota kind of signaling so far,

they're outside the top 10. They need to get up there to get a quarterback potentially. I just love where Arizona's at at four. And they've moved back in the draft before to good effect. And frankly, the charges are there at 5 too, another team that has a paid quarterback like Arizona. These are sort of the prime landing spots if you're Minnesota, Denver. I'd love to talk through some of the thinking as to kind of what goes on and trying to line things up.

As a GM, if you're a GM of Minnesota or Denver, you know, these teams, how much, how nervous are you right now? how much do you feel like you are in control of your destiny that you'll be able to get up there? Maybe sometimes these deals get worked out, you know, in advance before the draft. And then how much do you love to be Arizona? Would you love to be in that spot? Yeah, I think you're right. I think those two spots, Arizona's and the Chargers are the two catbird seats, like you mentioned.

I think Arizona has made it clear that we're going to build our team through the draft and then supplement with free agency. They aren't ready to go spend big dollars for the most part on. veteran free agents in their team build. They need more pillars. They need more core players. And really, Montya Austenfort, the GM said that last week. He said, hey, we've got everything but a flashing neon sign in front of us. Call us. We're willing. We're listening. We're all ears. So I could see them backing out easily. Being a team that has come up, and I remember one time in Seattle, we came from either 10 or 11, I think it was one of those two picks to three at about

this stage, maybe three weeks before the draft. But I remember my thinking at the time was there's three, there's three players that I love in this draft. If I go to three now, I'm going to get one. And I had one in the back of my mind that I had hoped would be there. So that's why I felt like there was no risk by doing it now. I knew I was going to get one of the three that I had on a pedestal above and beyond. If you have that feeling, I think now you could make it. a deal. If you're coming up for a quarterback at four, I find it rare that a team would do that now, not knowing which quarterback would be available at four. Because unlike the media or the outside noise has projected, a lot of teams aren't going to find all four of these guys the liking

for what they want. So if one of their guys is there at four, they won't know until draft day. So you could see that being a wait and see and while you're on the clock to do it. But even when you do that and you're going to wait until it's on the clock, you, at least my history has been, to discuss these parameters almost in detail to know exactly what you're willing to give and that team where you're going up to knows exactly what they can get. Because you really can't make these deals if you haven't thought them through. Like say, it is Arizona at four, you're not going to make a deal like this unless you've thought it through, you've vetted it internally, you've got everybody on the same page and built the consensus. That's hard to do in 15 minutes. So those calls are often happening now and you get a little window here to marinate these as possibilities and you get to tear them down, build them up, however you can come to a consensus in agreement internally. So this window of reaching out, of setting the parameters has to happen now. It can't happen

on game day. So any of these kind of deals for the most part are going to be talked through well in advance. So I think those calls are happening now. Does that answer your question? It does. And so you're referring to, I was just looking at this here, you were referring to the 97 draft. So that year was Seattle, you had the 12th pick in the order. That was your pick. And you ended up trading from 12 to six to get Walter Jones, the Hall of Fame left tackle. Now, you also that year got the 11th pick from Chicago in exchange for Rick Meyer, and from that spot you went to three to get Sean Springs, the corner from Ohio State. So in really, in that draft, you had 11 and 12, and in both cases traded into the top 10,

and you got to 3 and 6. So that's the sort of thing that these. Denver and and shoot that those trades could be interesting cops for what these teams are trying to accomplish as they get a quarterback. Well, I think more than anything, it gives you two different and diverse timing philosophies because the mechanism to go to, to go to three in the case where we drafted Sean Springs at three, that was done, like I said, two or three weeks beforehand. The Walter Jones trade, the second trade to go up to six was done on the clock on draft day.

So we kind of did both. depending on what was available, these things are fluid. And I wouldn't have been comfortable making the pick or making the trade to get to six, not knowing who is going to be there because I knew Walter was the guy we wanted. And if he wasn't there, we wouldn't have made a deal. We'd have stayed at 11 or 12, whatever you said it was. And we wouldn't have, we wouldn't have picked him, but we would have picked somebody else at 12. This window of time that we're in right now, Mike, GMs are figuring out how many blue chip guys do I really?

feel like are in this draft. In that case, and I'm just using the history, in that case, I felt, and we as a staff felt like there were six really, really good players. So if we could turn the rest of our draft over to get to being in that top six, we thought it was success. So that was our goal. Shoot, that was our goal in March as we sat there. We got to make 11 and 12. If we could get in the top six, we knew by then who we wanted and we felt like we knew the strength. of the draft, let's spend this spring trying to make that happen. So there's teams trying to do that right now. Yep, absolutely. There were some good players in the draft, too. Orlando Pace went number one, so there's a lot of good players at the top of that draft. Daryl Russell was two, I believe,

that the Raiders picked. Yeah, Gerald Russell, very talented. Sean Springs, Peter Bullware was up there. Yep, James Ferrier went a little bit. Shoot, Tony Gonzalez went 13. In fact, I remember doing a story on the Bears getting out of that 11th spot. That was one of the guys that, It would have looked pretty good in a bear's uniform, but it wasn't there. He would look good in the Seahawk uniform, too. Yeah. He looked good in any uniform. Hey, the kickoff change passed, and we're not going to get overly rehashing it because we talked about it last week.

But the league did adopt this new kickoff. And I'm going to, we're going to talk about different, you know, components of this, including the demands on personnel that now may be different because it's a different style of play. But basically, last year, the NFL tweaked the kickoff. rules to the point where the return rate fell so low that it became a super boring play. So now we're going to get a version of, not the exact play, but we're going to get a version of the XFL kick, which Randy, you experienced firsthand when you were general manager of Seattle Sea Dragons in the XFL and you loved it.

Loved it. We talked about it last week. I just think the innovation it brings the different strategy, the different coaching points. I think it's good for the game. It gives everybody a little fresh spin on how the game can be played. I do need to make one correction. I said last week that people should watch the Spring League this year to get an idea of how that's going to play out once the NFL season started. And then after our show last week, I found out that the Spring League went back to the old traditional kickoffs, which absolutely makes no sense to me at all.

They had something in their back pocket that everybody wanted. and then to go back to the old way of doing it, I think hurts them. In fact, you can say that if the kickoff was traditionally in the XFL like it had been the last two springs, it might drive some viewership now because everybody wants to see it unfold. Everybody wants to see what they're going to see in the NFL, and now they don't have that. So I think it's a strategic error by the new league for not for going away from the kickoff that they founded and designed. So basically now you're going to have the kicker be alone kicking a

off from his side of the field. His coverage team is going to be just across the 50 there lined up and you're going to have near that also then the coverage team with probably two returners no more than two position between the zero and 20 yard lines and the kicker's

going to have to try to kick it between the zero and the 20. If he's short of that or goes long of that it becomes a better starting drive start for the receiving team basically. We're not going to get into all the you know the mass of the rules, people can look that up.

But I do want to say, hey, right after this rule went into effect, the Steelers signed Corderole Patterson. I can picture Arthur Smith, the new offensive coordinator there in Pittsburgh. He was in Atlanta, had Cordero Patterson. And when he comes to Pittsburgh, he's probably got a few things he can make happen when he's there. But he's not going to play all of his chips and just go all in on him. But you can just bet, Randy, he was like, hey, man, can we get Corderole Patterson?

and then this rule goes through, and then they signed Corderole Patterson. I had to think that wasn't a, you know, maybe that was a related play, and that Arthur Smith not only has to be happy for his offense, but now it makes a lot of sense for their team if we're going to have returns and you can have an excellent kick returner. But Corderole Patterson has never returned in this type of return. does he he may seem perfectly suited for it, Randy, just given his body type and style. Can you take us through how, because you've done it, you've looked for returners under this rule.

How does the makeup of a return specialist change for you? And because the play's different. Maybe you can get into that, just how it's different and how you're going to look for different types of players and even maybe kickers. Well, as you've mentioned, the kickoffs now are really, they've been defined by. kicking the ball through the end zone, now that's a penalty. Now if you kick it out of bounds, it's always been a penalty, but the penalty is even greater. So you've got to have an accurate kicker, and to be honest with you, it doesn't really matter how high he kicks it, except that you want the kickoff to follow the trajectory of, say, a wedge or a nine ironing golf. You want it to go

high only because if it does hit without being caught, you don't want it to tumble into the end zone. You want it to back up because it's a penalty if it tumbles into the end zone. So your kicker is going to be different. He's got to have enough leg though to get it within this landing zone. And the other thing that I think is important is the blockers are a little different as well. There's no running and seeking out a intended target. Your target is 10 yards away from you. So it's not like you have to have all these athletic guys running around. You might add an offensive lineman, definitely some tight ends, some people that can, all they have to do is get their hands on a defender and slightly turn them.

So the personnel makeup and the criteria will be different. The returners, as you mentioned, for me, I think it's a combination of a punt returner, kick returner. A kick returner in the past has been a guy that hits it, a slashing type guy who's just run into daylight. Now, because the holes aren't going to be gashing, it's almost got to be a combination of a punt returner and a kick returner. And I've always thought a punt returner has to be able to break arm tackles.

So he's got to be strong in his lower body because nothing's ever blocked perfectly. and we return a punt, if you don't break an arm tackle, chances are you're not going to get your 12 yards that everybody's goal is for. And I think it's a little bit of both in this case. Yeah, you still want a kick returner that's going to hit it and have some vision to hit an open area. But you've also, I think because the play is really tight and the creases are small, you're going to have to break an arm tackle as well as a kickoff returner. So it'll be interesting to see how this personnel and the, philosophy of how they employ it plays out in preseason without a doubt and throughout the spring for

that matter. This has to be good for those special teams coaches too because they were running out of plays. They're running out of place to justify those big salaries and now they're back in the game a little bit, you know? I think it's good for everybody. I really do. I think fans are going to like it. Just give it a chance because the first time they line up, you're going to say, oh man, this is ridiculous. This is, you know, kids stuff. What do we do? People will say it's gimmicky. Yeah. Just trust me. But you didn't find it gimmicky, yeah. I did initially. I did exactly find it gimmicky initially and didn't like it at all.

Plus, we weren't really sure how it was going to be officiated. And the last thing, as you know, me, the last thing I want to do is put anything else on the officials plate because there are some things where looks awkward, how is the ref going to really be able to disseminate between this and that? Once the kinks all get ironed out, I think people are going to like it a lot. So just hang with it when you see it first. Because it's going to be like the tush push. you're going to say, oh, that's not football, that's something else. Well, trust me, you're going to like it in the end.

Well, Randy, we're going to like anything compared to what the kickoff became. So they could have a, you know, throwing frisbee's to dogs that's during that time. And I would enjoy it more than the kickoff and what it would become with a 21% return rate last season. It was a wasted play. Transitioning here, we got a little bit of time left. One of the story that caught my attention coming out of the Eagles with news that they're salary cap analyst Jake Roseberg would be leaving the team, not because he has another job, but because, well, we'll get into why.

It reminded me in February, our colleague Tim Graham out of Buffalo had a story about the Bill's assistant coach John Butler, leaving the staff, kind of a Vizona volition after head coach Sean McDermott had bypassed him. McDermott named Bob Babich, Bobby Babbage, son of Bob Babbage as his defensive coordinator. Butler was kind of felt like he had hit a ceiling, hey, that he should have maybe, hopefully gotten that job. And he said, look, Bobby's going to do a great job. It came down to us, both feeling we were qualified, we both still are.

The decision doesn't change anything. But once that decision is made, it's time for me to see if I can be a coordinator somewhere else. I'm at my best when I'm in charge. I ran the secondary for six years, but there's a ceiling there. So he left the bills with a year remaining on his contract. No new job lined up. To my knowledge, I don't know that he.

is on a staff at this time. So now we get a very similar story out of the league meetings that Jake Rosenberg, longtime salary cap analyst and contract negotiated for the Eagles under general manager Hallie Roseman is leaving. And Halley Roseman, by the way, had promoted two other guys, Alec Halliby and John Ferrari,

into assistant GM roles, kind of gave him assistant GM over different types of things. and so Rosenberg didn't get one of those jobs and he's looking at that going, huh, you know, where's my path forward in this career? I've been passed over twice. That probably doesn't look, you know, like it's going to help me.

And I'm stuck. That's a signal. So he's going to be leaving. I'm just curious, Randy, you were in the league a long time. Did you ever do anything like that? Have you seen it done? What thoughts do you have, you know,

would you advise? I'm sure every situation is different, but those just caught my, attention as as unusual types of moves leaving a place, not because you were fired, not because you're even necessarily disgruntled, but just because your career's not really, you got bypassed for something. And so you think it may be better to just, I need to start, I need to start fresh. I can't be here anymore. Yeah. I can surely understand it. I've never done it. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't have, I'd admit to thinking it through a time or two in some stops where I was at.

I think we all see ourselves one way. Sometimes we, the bosses, see us in a different way. I find it interesting that it's easy to do, I mean, for anybody in any job when you're an apprentice level player in a big corporation, when your salary is what it is or you don't have a family to have to put on your back and move somewhere as well. It's, it's a total different animal when you have some financial risk, it's just tough to do. So I give them credit for willing to walk away and go move somewhere else without having a safety net. I'll say this. I worked the first 10 years in the NFL and didn't have a contract. And my thinking always was, hey, if they don't want me, I'll go find another job. Well, you get to a point where your pay is a little more important and

the stability of your family is a little more important. So you tend not to have such a a laissez-faire attitude about that. So I think it's really hard in these guys' case. And I know Jake. I think Jake's good. And I think Howie thinks he's good. And he's been at Philly for a long time. I love them.

It is admirable to be willing to let go to the shore before you get a chance to explore the horizons. It's easier said than done. So even sometimes when I've taken another job, having one, it was hard for me to let go. I can't imagine how hard it would be to not have another job and still let go of the rope and have no fallback, no safety net. So I just think it's easier said than done. It's a, yeah, it's a tough spot. And I get it. I totally understand. In most cases, I would say this, Mike, something, maybe it is being bypassed, maybe it's not being heard. Maybe the dynamic in the building has just changed to the point where you're not happy for whatever reason. And it might serve

both sides change, change of scenery, change of structure, change of people around you. We all get to that point where sometimes we need something different. So I get it. What's interesting to me is that, you know, Jake Rosenberg and his type of a job, it's all about strategy. He's all about knowing when you have leverage or not and strategy. And so he's not the type of person just by the nature of his job who, you know, is going to not have a plan. So who knows, maybe he's got a place to go. I thought it was interesting. We were talking on the, you and I were talking just on the, on the phone before this. And, you know, Rosenberg's got ties to a lot of chiefs people. He was with Andy Reed. He's with Brett Veach,

those guys and Kansas City's, you know, cap analyst and negotiator left for Carolina. Brandt Tillis is now there with the Panthers. So we'll just look and see where Jake Rosenberg lines up. Maybe it'll be in a different realm. Maybe it'll be a different type of job. But that just caught my attention as that's not how it usually happens a lot of times when you change jobs it's not your own choice and you have another job you're going to uh if it is your choice so it's kind of interesting caught my attention another thing that caught my attention recently randy was uh dion sanders comments saying his son shoulder sanders and teammate travis hunter will not go to certain teams in the 2025 draft uh i immediately

thought of, you know, some pretty really high-powered quarterbacks and players who exercised this type of strategy. 40 years ago, John Elway refused to play for the Colts. He did pretty well for himself in Denver. His rights were traded to the Broncos, won two Super Bowls there. 20 years ago, Eli Manning refused to play for the Chargers who had picked him at the top of the draft. His rights were traded to the Giants, won a couple of Super Bowls there, worked out well for him.

and so I thought, hmm, what does Shadir Sanders, John Elway, and Eli Manning have in common? Maybe not a lot. Well, I want to get your opinion on that as players, but they all three had or have dads who coached or played in the league. Guys who sort of know how important it is for our player's success to maybe hinge on where they are landed. What are your thoughts when you saw that come out? Maybe there's an evaluation component of this thing too. Well, I think we'll find out. Initially, when I heard Dionne say this, I thought, well, that's easier said than done to be able to manipulate a draft.

And there are not many John Elway's, none that I've had seen in my 40 years, maybe not a family with the swag that the Manning family carries in the NFL. So those are two pretty high standards to compare yourself to. with regard to his own son, the quarterback at Colorado, I think we'll see. I don't think anybody's ready to throw him in that category yet as a player. Maybe he will be in time, but I don't think he's ready for that yet. I think really what Dion probably was saying more than anything is that NIL maybe has changed in that a player doesn't have to go to the league. I don't know that they'll ever be able to manipulate where they go unless they're willing

just to go back to school. and if they're saying that NIL is so lucrative now that a kid doesn't have to come out to play pro ball, so be it. That will be the exception to the rule for sure. I don't think that's going to change. I don't think the draft is going away. I think as we talked about, that's the basis by which parity is measured in this league. And that's not going to change. It's what's made the league really what it is.

I know we're in a part of the, part of the, what's the, what's the word I'm looking for. We're in an era where players are empowered now more than ever. I just think sometimes we get and we hear people kind of take that to the nth degree and I don't know how real that is. I think there's still going to be parameters. There's still going to be restrictions. There's still going to be rules and guidelines to follow. We're just not going to break down all the walls. That's just not going to happen with a league like the NFL. So I guess long answer to a short, I don't know that Deon really can back up most of what he's saying there. Now, Travis Hunter, the kid who plays offense and defense, might have a better chance to, per se, of just having to go where you're drafted.

Probably if, as we sit here now a year out, he probably have, Travis might have a better chance to dictate what happens at the top than Shadour would. But time will tell. I just, I don't think it's, maybe it's a threat, but I don't think it's a realistic, realistic possibility that a player can dictate what he wants to do at this point anyway. Yeah, unless you're, like you said, you're really one of those guys at the very top. There was speculation that Caleb Williams could go on that path, but it seems like he's not. You know, he's really been, seems to have embraced, embraced this process and the, and the bears have been, you know, have met with him and all of that.

So that seems like this is heading down a very traditional course this year at the top of this draft. We'll see what it means in the future. Like you said, Hedars Sanders, has a lot of climbing to do in terms of updraft. and that sort of a thing over the next year we'd have to play really, really great to a level he has not at this point to have that type of leverage, even though he obviously has an amazing pedigree because his dad was one of the greatest athletes we've ever seen to Sports Star. What do you got in the GM notebook this week, Randy?

Got a couple quick points. I just think maybe of a timely fashion, the biggest, it has nothing to do with football, but I'm sure you've heard about the Draymont Green episode this week. I mean, it's taking its share of the media narratives, that's for sure, especially the last 48 hours. I've heard a lot of commentary about it, a lot of people weighing in on their thoughts. I just wanted to take a look at it really from a team building standpoint and a point of view, because I heard some of the notion on our worldwide leader and some other platforms that really kind of blame the coach. They blame the front office in that they're allowing this kind of behavior and that this is killing the culture within their own building.

I just had to push back a little bit on that for two reasons. One, I actually think Draymont Green does more for their culture than anybody could imagine because no one's ever questioned his willingness to do things the right way, to practice, to play, to hold others accountable. But trust me, I want that in my locker room. So I don't view him as a negative. I understand that he's got to control his emotions. I get it.

But there is a fine line when you evaluate a guy like Draymont and say, he's killing your culture because there's nine-tenths of that culture he's created. So I'm not, you know, I'm not at all blaming Steve Kerr, the front office, the other players on their team for tolerating it. This is what you get when you get Draymont Green. And for the most part, I welcome it. So I don't know what you feel about that. I don't know if you've heard some of the criticism. I just, I don't buy it. I'm okay with what happened. I'm not justifying it. I'm saying I get it. No, you know, I don't I don't follow the NBA close enough to to know. My impression from afar watching up was kind of like, oh, Draymond Green, if he could,

and how many times do they have to put up with this? You saw the, you know, the shot of Steph Curry's reaction like, oh my gosh, here we go again. So it paid the media and just the coverage of it to me from afar, someone who isn't in the inside doesn't know really that much about the workings of the NBA right now was thinking, oh, I, I. I'm seeing them a little bit more in that distraction realm. So it's actually helpful for me to hear that eval from you that he's doing a lot more positive than negative. And I think our columnist Tim Kaokami wrote something along those lines I saw that was like, hey, there could become a time when Draymond Green is not valuable enough to offset these kind of, you know,

either annoying or negative components to what he brings. But that time's not now, that his value is still. exceeds that. And I guess that's really the takeaway that applies to any league, right, Randy? But what you're saying is, hey, not only does the positive outweigh the negative, you're saying the negative actually is part of the positive for Draymond Green. 100%. I want some of that. I don't want all of it. I get it. I don't want him get kicked out of game with three minutes into it. I understand that. But I want his passion. I want everything else that comes with it. And I want it every day. That's what's going to make us the

Golden State Warriors. That's what's going to win us five championships or however many they've won, that type of mentality. So I'm willing to take the bad with the good. But I just felt like when people are saying that's ruining our culture, that's ridiculous. I mean, that to me, we're not building a choir's boy here. We're trying to win games and I don't think he hurts our culture at all. He's holding all of us accountable. Now, maybe it eats at his credibility at times when he is critical of others. That part of it, I guess. And so maybe, and I'm sure this has been brought up to him, that's something that they probably have to continue to drive home is, hey, we get it, Dremont, but you can't be critical of others when you're acting like this or the result of your actions put us in this predicament. Yeah.

I loved the little clip recently when his kids came up during the press conference. Did you see that? Yeah, yeah. Great. Yeah. I like Dremont. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. His daughter came up and then the son, they were young and they were kind of having some kind of a spat. and you could hear the son trying to explain, yeah, but she did this. I love that stuff. I just haven't been apparent. It's just so funny to me. Anyway, what else you got in the GM notebook? I had one other notebook note only because it has to do with front office.

And it seems to be that the Brandon IU contract is percolating a little bit out there. We heard people screaming about this from the minute the 49er season end, whether it was family, friends, spouses, whatever. This has been an ongoing, a little bit of a saga, and I know everybody wants to get paid, and my caution for this whole narrative is, and I'm sure his representation knows this, but potentially there are three really good wide receivers, probably all better than IUC, that are going to be free agents this next year and are going to have to sign new deals. Now, he has a contract for next year. I believe it's his fifth-year option, Iyuk.

But you're talking about Justin Jefferson, C.D. Lamb, Jamar Chase, all going to get paid giant money. If I'm Brandon Nyuk, and I might want to just pipe down a little bit, not make a giant deal about getting paid because I do have one year left, and I believe it's 19.7 million or something like that. It's a nice number, but I would want to wait until all these other deals come into play and then work off of those deals. I just think that makes business sense.

It makes sense for everybody. But my caution is sometimes players get ahead of themselves, and can't wait to get the bag, like they say, or get paid. Have a little patience. Let timing when it favors you, percolate and work its way in. And I would assume that the people around him advising him, if I'm him, I don't want a new deal right now. I'll be honest with you. I don't.

I want to let these other deals happen because I think they're going to be $25 million a year per deals. And that's going to help me. Oh, someone's going to 30. Yeah, maybe. Sometimes players just don't see the long game. And I think in this sense, you've got to, if you're Brandon, you've got to look at the long game before you pull the trigger on some short-term satisfaction. That's for sure. And I think that's especially true. Like when you said, when you have that $19 million

insurance policy, that's a huge component of this because that's going to be a fully guaranteed salary. So you're already set for life, right? It's not like you're making $1 million a year. And if you have a catastrophic injury, you're really in a bad shape. He's got, you can have money in the bank. It's a great position of strength to really wait out the market and be strategic about it. So we'll see how that goes. And that'll be interesting for the 49ers too, because they've had to make some choices with their roster. We saw that this offseason. And eventually they're going to be paying their quarterback probably too, which they can't do for another year. But that would be very interesting to see how that one comes down. What else you got in the notebook?

That's a Bay Area notebook so far. We got the Warriors. We got the Fouriers. We got the four nights. We got anything, you know, you got anything on your favorite team, the San Francisco Giants for the notebook? No, except that they lost their home opener to the, or no, the Padre's home opener. So we're going to disregard the Giants for right now. One note that we did talk about that actually was your idea, and I'll give you credit for putting something in the notebook. You've taken a few out over the years. Yeah. The Legerius Sneed compensation, that kind of broke last week after our podcast. So as people know, the corner from the chiefs was traded for a third rounder. And you brought it up to me. Why not just hold him? Because the pick was a 2025 pick.

Why not hold him for another year? Because really, that's no different than getting a compensatory pick to start with. But there are some ways that you get compensatory picks. There are others you don't. Maybe the chiefs are going to sign a couple more guys. I don't know. But I just think that the point is these players who are tagged and then traded, the lesson is you're not going to get great value for them because teams who acquire them, one, they have to pay these guys. So it's an enormous contract usually that comes with them. And the compensation they give as well is kind of a two, it's a double hit, right? So they're given a bunch of compensation. They're given a bunch of cash and cap. It just makes it hard. So you've got to really find the right match for

these acquiring teams to get these guys who have been tagged. I think an example of that is the receiver in Cincinnati. Higgins. Yeah, T. Higgins that got tagged. They got no takers for him, and I don't see him going anywhere right now. I could see that one even not negotiating and just letting him play there on a one-year deal. No one's going to give that kind of money and compensation both at this stage of the game. So I think the chiefs were probably taken back by the little that the they got in compensation, that Bengals maybe are only going to get worse in what they could get, they're better off probably just hanging on to him at that time. And maybe the chiefs were too. I don't know. And even Brian Burns, your number one for a agent this year got like a two and a

five. You know, you would never, you'd think he would get way more than that. But there's a huge contract number, you know, well into the 20s of millions of dollars per year that affected what they were able to get for them. Because I'm sure Carolina, you know, was looking around a little bit for there too. I think the other thing is the player in these situations has some ability to steer these things potentially too in terms of where he wants to go play. Maybe it's not important to him. Maybe he just only wants the money, but it's just something you may need to take into account as well. So I did think that one was interesting. Now, the other component of that, I think, is a lot of Chiefs fans would say, well, God,

we're a Super Bowl team. Why not just keep him and let's go? Certainly the money is one part of it, the cash and cap part of that, but also when you signal to a player that you're not really going to pay him, I think you risk the fact that you may not get the best for him. And we've seen Josh Jacobs or Saquan Barkley, you know, some of these guys that are playing out the string. You get that message, it's sort of like the guys we were talking about before, the coach in Buffalo, the front office guy in Philly. Once you get sort of signaled that you're not, you know, getting the long-term deal or the big promotion, you know, sometimes a change of scenery is best for you, to really be your best.

And so if Sneed stays there and isn't happy with his lack of getting a deal, who knows where that leads? Let's just say then, you know, week seven, you have an injury. You know, I'm going to play this thing safe. I've got to be a free agent, right? We saw that with Justin Jefferson this last year. He had an injury. I'm not saying he could or couldn't have come back sooner,

but he was going to be strategic about it because he doesn't have the long-term deal yet. All of those things can come into play to where that guy staying on your roster, is less valuable to you than you would think. Well, any way you look at it, these are complicated deals. And I think the narrative from fans standpoint most of time is, well, just tag them and trade them, tag them, and then we'll trade them. We'll get something for him. That's the comeback for most fans, is they just want to see you get something

instead of letting him walk out the door. It's much harder to do that than you think. There are a lot of moving parts, as you've mentioned. There's the compensation. There's the contract. There's the bruised ego involved. There's a lot of things that make these deals hard to do. We know when the tags came into effect way back when, whatever year of that was when we

first were hit with free agency, they were put into effect not to tag and trade players. You were supposed to, the spirit of it was to initially tag them and then sign them to long-term deals. It's become more of a tool to protect yourself more than anything. And sometimes that comes with, you know, a fictitious idea of tagging and trading that doesn't ever happened. So I just think those aren't simple cut and dry deals that fans probably have to realize that, hey, maybe there are some downsides to this, especially if we're only going to get a third round pick. Now, plus the fact that you're carrying a giant cap number through free agency,

and that's money you could spend elsewhere on your team. For example, with the chiefs, they carried Sneed's deal all the way through. Even if they wanted to sign somebody else, they couldn't. But that's a factor as well. So there's pros and cons to all nuances of these deals. 1993 was the first year of the franchise tag. I believe Steve Young was the first quarterback to get the tag. Interesting. Anyway, so it's been a while. Yeah, I was on a committee at the league level when this stuff was all being

thought through and we had a lot of smart people on there. Thank goodness they weren't depending on me. But I remember the premise for these rules was to when we, when the owners, were worried about losing their best players and rosters changing like crazy every year. And so the transition tag and the franchise tag were meant to put in place just to curb the rosters and the great players moving from city to city. So for whatever reason, that's kind of become and spun into its own world about now tagging and trading.

And that was never the premise to start with. Yeah, but as a GM and as a team, you're going to get creative with all of this stuff. And there's always unintended consequences with these tags. And we've seen that. And players have really, you know, really been bothered by it, you know, the way that it's been used. But that's the way it works. Everyone uses the rules to the best of their advantage. And this has been a great, a great thing for the teams, not as great of a thing for some of the players.

Got anything else, Randy? No, that's about it for me. Mike. Another good week. I enjoyed our conversation. Yeah, absolutely. We'll do it again next week. And we'll start to dive in to some rankings, some draft rankings, which I really.

Really, really look forward to. Hope you do too. Randy, have a great weekend. Everybody else have a great weekend. We'll be back with the Football GM podcast. Same place. Same time. Next week.

This was the Athletic Football Show's Football GM podcast.