The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Free Agency Day 2: Andy Dalton to the Bears, Jets & Patriots stay active, Ryan Fitzpatrick to Washington, favorite signings & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Day 2 of the NFL's legal tampering period was full of headlines, from Ryan Fitzpatrick signing with Washington, to the Jets making multiple signings, the Patriots staying active, Leonard Williams signing a massive contract, and of course, Andy Dalton signing with the Chicago Bears. Hear instant reaction from Robert Mays and Nate Tice s they break down the biggest NFL storylines of the day on The Athletic Football Show.1 - 6:33 AndyDalton6:33 - 19:06 Patriots moves19:06 - 24:47 - Jets moves24:47 - 34:03 Trey Hendrickson / Bengals34:03 - 41:24 Bud Dupree / Titans41:24 - 45:56 Leonard Floyd / Rams45:26 - 47:56 Leonard Williams / NYG47:56 - 52:35 Dalvin Tomlinson / MIN52:35 - 58:57 - FitzMagic / WFT58:57 - 1:03:15 Jameis Winston / Saints1:03:15 - 1:07:17 Matt Ryan / Falcons1:07:17 - 11:5:10 Rodney Hudson / LV1:15:10 - Favorite / Least-favorite Signings Watch this episode on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xkEnSabTacGet exclusive discount access to The Athletic at theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I've never, we've done live playoff shows and I've never been more excited for a live show than I am right now. Like, countdown, countdown about to begin, news breaks. So we're about to start this entire thing. And our producer Kent says, breaking news, the Bears just signed Andy Dalton, one year, 10 million. I said, are you serious? He said, yes, I am. So, all right, there's no other place that we can start. I mean, obviously, it's not the most important news of the day, but it is the most important news.

Good thing you were in a good mental state when you got that news, too, right? You're right? I'm scrambling to get my computer fixed. So, there's a lot going on. There is. First of all, Sando was retweeting a bunch of old Andy Dalton takes, and I don't really need to hear that right now. These are outdated now, and he should stop doing that. All right, so the bear signed Andy Dalton, one year, $10 million. I'm on record saying that I wanted the bears to do this last year and in the past. Some circumstances have changed, and I'll want to walk through that very quickly. When I was saying the bear should sign Andy Dalton or make a trade for Andy Dalton two years ago at the deadline,

I was of the opinion that the quarterback was the major problem with the offense. If they got baseline quarterback play, let's see what they can do. After getting Nick Foles last year and seeing just how hapless the offense looked, when they had a quarterback that wasn't Mitchell Chubisky and we saw some of the underlying issues that went beyond Mitchell Chubisky, I changed my thinking about how much the quarterback is the issue and how much the offense as a whole is actually a problem.

That's one thing. Two, I still think when they did what they did last year with Foles, they should have signed Andy Dalt. Andy Dalt was available for one year, about $6 million last year. Probably would it cost more to have him be in the quarterback race for the Bears to be the starter. But even if it's $10 million last year,

that's better to me than signing, than trading for Nick Folles, giving up a fourth round pick and giving him $21 million guaranteed. So now a year removed from overpaying for Foles only for him to fizzle out, they now sign Andy Dalton anyway

with Folls still on the roster. Yeah, yeah. And the guy who brought Foles in now having more titles to his name or more power, probably with the game planning and the play call. Just awesome.

I just love the continued quarterback legacy of the Bears from I from few years ago texting after the Mike Glennon signing and then drafting Trubisky like I remember that phone call with you and then also now here we are a few years later we're just going keep it going keep the good times going I will say this I it doesn't really matter I mean I don't think it really matters if Andy Dalton's a quarterback or Nick Foles is the quarterback this is preferable to me bringing in Andy Dalton for one year 10 million dollars over trading away a first round pick and giving Carson once 25 million against the cap If this is the move that's going to happen, that's fine with me because this doesn't leverage what you can do two years from now.

It doesn't put you in a bad spot. My concern with whatever direction the Bears were going to go a quarterback was that it was going to be born of desperation. They were going to do something that Ryan Pace understood that he was on borrow time. They're going to borrow money or picks or whatever from next year or the year after when a new regime might be there. If this is what they end up doing with Andy Dalton, that's fine. I mean, there's only so much damage that can happen by giving a guy $10 million to be in a quarterback competition with Nick Foles. I don't know if they're going to think they need to draft someone. I don't think they're really in a position to draft someone.

So this is, again, the damage done by signing Andy Dalton to this contract is self-contained. And I think that's where I'm at. As long as the damage is limited, then it's not really that big of a deal in my mind. Yeah, I think as a Bears fan, this is actually kind of best case for what the, situation is. I mean, there's not really a lot of avenues they could have gone down. It's just classic, uh, day late, dollar short kind of kind of situation they have going on. I mean, the worst thing that could happen for the Bears as a franchise organization was what happened this past year, which was they were good enough to make the playoffs with seven seeds now,

but not good enough to actually be a contender. And so they're, they talked themselves into running it back. And so now they're running it back going like, oh, we're going to do what we should have done last year and bring him in. But I mean, as a Bears fan, probably. you already know what the bed you're laying in is. And okay, this is probably just another extra pillow for you to help you go to sleep when you watch Chicago this season. I mean, there was an understanding that there were no good avenues here. Outside of a crazy trade for Russell Wilson, which I don't think was ever going to happen. Oh, and I still don't think it's going to happen this year.

There were no good directions for them to go. And this is fine. Of all the bad avenues, this one is an exceptional. acceptable bad avenue. And if you're looking at quarterback contracts, you think about Ryan Fitzpatrick just signed for $10 million to go to Washington. Tyrae Taylor signed for a one-year deal up to $12 million just now to go to Houston. I'm assuming that's mostly incentive-based where if he ends up being the starter,

they think they can trade Deshawn everything else. But this is the going price for potential starting quarterbacks that are stopgap options. And it's fine. The bears are not set up to be a good team. There are so many questions about that team. but like I said, there's only so much damage that can be done

by bringing in Andy Dalton on this sort of contract. All right, do you want to move on and discuss some actual things that matter? Okay. No offense.

The timing of that is absolutely incredible. Oh, it's amazing. Could not be better. I thought Kent was messing with us. I just could not believe that's exactly what happened. When you're looking at how everything was unfolding,

it made sense. I mean, you're running out of options at a certain point. And he was one of the, options, but again, he was one of the options last year. This could have happened and you'd still have a fourth round pick and you wouldn't have a quarterback you don't want on the books for $6.5 million this year when the cap is $185 million.

So I still stand by the fact that Andy Dalton was a better choice than Nick Foles would have been last year. And I think I've been proven right, considering they came back around a year later to Andy Dalton. All right. You spoke into reality. It just took a couple years. So, all right.

So we'll just ask you for stock tips and know what happens three years from now. All right. Let's keep going here with the Patriots continued spending spree. Obviously, we had a long conversation with Lindsay yesterday about some of the deals they handed out, whether it was Johnny Smith, Nelson Aguilar, everything else. So now I wake up this morning and the first news that I see while scrolling Twitter in bed is that the Patriots gave Hunter Henry almost the exact same contract as they gave the John Smith. I think Daniel Popper, the athletics Daniel Popper who covers the Chargers, as soon as the Patriots gave out the Smith contract, his reaction was, well, it looks like Hunter Henry isn't going to New England.

Well, so much for that. So I want to take a step back before we talk about the Henry signing specifically. What is your read on what the Patriots were doing? What's your overall kind of reaction and feel for the signings and the strategy that's trickled out over the last couple of days? Yeah, a couple of the deals weren't as heavy as I think we had. originally thought they were structured differently, but that's, that's a longer story. But at least offensively, who they're signing kind of makes a lot of sense. And I could say defensively too. But if we're just talking Bourne, Aguilar, Jonu Smith, and Hunter Henry,

I see the vision. I really do. They compliment each other well. They're getting, as far as receiver wise, with Aguilar and Bourne, they both have inside and outside versatility, which I think that's what Belichick is going for and Josh McDaniels is going for is they're going more like of the newer, and I should say newer, we all ideally have it, but more of just kind of like positionless football or more just that everyone can align everywhere. See, I think it's not new. It's a throwback for them. This is the type of thing they've loved to do forever.

Yeah, 10 years ago. And also, well, I also want to say too is when you're talking about 10, like what they've done forever, think of how many times you see 21 or 12 personnel heavy play action with a, with a glancer out in a post. And it's like, but if you just picture that and they did it with Cam last year a little been some out of the gun but still some under center. That route concept, it makes a lot of sense. What, what Kendrick Boren's good at, what you brought up last week, he's tough as hell

over the middle. And then he also got Nelson Aglar, who's great intermediate and it can take the top off the defense. You get those concepts and it makes a lot of sense in that and that way. But then that, and when you get the tight end, it's like my original note, I wrote this last night. It says, John Smith, I feel like it's going to be a great scheme fit. They pull the tight end on counter schemes a lot.

And they also use them on a lead outside zone where he's more of a shielder than like you know, like a true gritty blocker. There's no, there's not a, he's not a manhandler at the point of attack. He's a movable. He's a shielder. I think that's a nice way to put that. That means he gets the job done. He gets the job done. And, you know, so he doesn't have to block down on the end. It's a good scheme fit for what they do in the run game. And he's also, you know, can move around. He's a true F, but he's also tough enough. He'll get the job done, but he's just not big and what it requires of that position. But then getting Hunter Henry, I'm the same same with you. I'm a West Coast time. I woke up this morning to that bunch of, and then I was, and I looked at my

cross vision in the morning, I read Panthers. And I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. But then I got like five, like a couple minutes later, I was like, oh, no, that that says Patriots. Oh, my God. And then yeah, no, swear to God, that's how it was. I was like, okay, yeah, all right, I guess they're, that's what they're going for. But it, if they do want to go back into the heavy 12 personnel, which are all the indications are, I see even the, they took the two tight ends in the third round last year. If you want to be a heavy 12 personnel team, we all go into all teams going to training camp going like this is what we're going to be this year throughout training camp, maybe a couple plays come in, maybe a young player a sense. And you're like, okay, I'm going to add

that out. I'm going to add that on some you guess, some you don't guess. But I think with the Patriots are going, hey, we're going to be heavy in this 12 personnel. This is where the league's going. Or back to what we were good at, like you said. But injuries happen. You get a guy like John Smith, Hunter Henry. They've been banged up. Those young tight ends, at least they can get the job done if they want to stay in 12 personnel, those guys that were now were starting are now backups. And it's just kind of like it sends the whole team. Those guys can play on special teams now. So that actually makes more sense.

People are going like, oh, it's, they're wasting all this value at the tight end position. They blew those draft picks. And it's like, yeah, they might not be the greatest players in the world. But I understand it at least from a team building concept. And finding a tight end, a viable tight end is really freaking hard. I mean, anyone that plays fantasy knows there's only a couple that get the stats. But imagine having a three down tight end. and they have two of them that can actually get the job down on three downs.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. They have two of them. And then they have two backups that they put some pedigree into, put some draft stock into. It's like, okay, it makes sense. They're throwing a lot of resources at a position that's hard to find a viable player. So it's one of those at first. I'm like, what? And then as I've thought about it more, I'm like, okay, this makes a lot more sense.

And that's just the offensive side of the ball. It's funny because when I look back at their history, obviously, you've seen so many two tie-down approaches from them in different ways over the years and just multidis personnel packages in general. And when they went with those two tight ends as the basis of their offense for a while, the question is, is that because of the players or is that because of how they want to approach the offense? Are you letting the personnel inform the scheme, or are you kind of filtering the scheme through the personnel? And this is a science of me that they want to play like this. This is the preference for how they want to build. And it really

does align, even if it's a slightly diminished version or a very diminished version from what the Grand Cardenas combination was, but this is what they've always been. offensively. The question is, how does it mesh with what Cam is and what the running approach is? Because they could survive. This is a familiar set of receiving personnel for the Patriots. Two tight ends, acceptable receiving talent, guys that can just kind of line up and play. That's fine when you have one of the most exacting, precise quarterbacks in the history of the NFL and you can live that death by a thousand paper cut sort of offense and matriculate the ball down the field in a pretty methodical way.

Are they going to be able to be that dynamic of an offense when Cam Newton is the quarterback and not Tom Brady? How does Cam's rushing ability filter in with the heavier personnel sets that they have? I have a lot of questions. I understand the plan. I understand how these pieces fit together in a way. I guess my question is, even if they make sense, how much difference do they actually make? Like if this is your offense with a very good offensive line, even losing Tuni, you trade for

Trent Brown, you still have Isaiah win, Shaq Mason, on Wenwu, I can never pass his name. And then you figure out the last interior piece, that's a good group. So what does that look like in practice, even if the idea for it makes sense? To me, that still leaves something to be desired. I don't know what you are if that's your collection of skill position talent and your offensive line. Do they try to make a play for a quarterback? Do they trade up the draft? I still think there are questions that remain about what the Patriots will be even after all of these additions. Yeah. And also, I think it's a great point. If Cam is the quarterback is Cam, you know, a quick game isn't

Cam's forte. It's running the ball, QB power and stuff. That's quick game for Cam Newton is just be able to run the all. But what I do like, at least in regards to these receivers, is born, who I think is a talented route runner. I think at least he's good at the good tier, maybe even better, is that he's better on extended routes where he can get going. Like he can do double moves. He can do whip routes really nice and get in and out of it. And that's going to come up on third down. That's why he's a third down monster. But also I, again, second time I'll bring this up. He is tough over the middle, which Cam can have, Cam's extended release can get a lot of receivers hurt. When you take an extra second to get that ball there and you're missing it in there,

you're really hoping those guys hold on the ball and they're going to take some shots. So I kind of get getting a couple tough ass receivers that can make a living doing that or always born. I actually do think they're like in prime position. I know Nicola Harry is probably on the block, but it's like they actually do need an X. Like they do need the ball winner. I'm going to say that for every team always. But like they actually do.

That's like the one piece they're missing. But those other four guys, they're all tough as hell. Like John Hussmith, the whole Titans team, we're probably talking about him. later, that's what they go after. They preach toughness. Even if he can't always get the job done, he has that kind of physical mentality. So it's more want to. He's not able to, but he has the want to do it.

And then Hunter Henry is pretty. He gets a job done as well. I've compared him to Jason Winton when he was coming out of Arkansas. He's not that tier. But he is a good player. I think we've kind of, he's a weird rated player in the week, I think. Here's my thing with Hunter Henry and here's my thing with what you just said. He's a good player.

I think a lot of things. And Johnny Smith, he's a good player. Nelson Aguilar, I don't even know if I'd go that far. He had a decent season with the Raiders last year. We could talk about that in a while. Kendrick Bourne is somebody you liked, but in a let's dig for the gems sort of way. So you're paying a premium for all of these guys and you're paying in free agency the way the teams have forever. What does that mean?

There's this reek of desperation. Are you actually moving the needle? We're going to be asking questions about the Patriots and how they've had a talent that we consistently. I instantly ask about other teams right now. And that's what's interesting to me about this position is just that I'm not used to evaluating the Patriots moves in this way just because we don't see them stretching and kind of making plays for guys that are born. Again, not of desperation, but just not operating from a position of strength, I guess I would say. I get what you mean. It's like, it's like they're the kid at the candy store with a $20 bill going like, oh my God.

like, you know, and like for the first time going like, I can get this, I can get this, I can get this. And the thing was, Belichick made his name in the game in those, the early Patriot Diocese because now they have like three errors of them. But the first iteration was Belichick was known as an extremely good pro scouter. He is very good at finding what he likes as as team culture and building and also just scheme fit of what he likes to do. That's where his bread was buttered early in his crew. That's one of the best things he ever did. That's why he brought guys like Brian Cox in and the variables of the world. Those types of guys that like rebuilt their team and made it the Patriot way.

And it's kind of curious that he gets money again and you see what types of guys he goes after. Like defensively makes sense. But this isn't Kyle Van Noe way or Rob Ninkovich. He's paying $14 million a year for Matt Judon. That's the difference is that there aren't any bargains to be found here. So even if that eye. That's what's funny.

Even if that eye is still there. And this, he's like, that's a good player. that's a good player, they're having to pay a lot for them. And I want to, some Bill's fans have been very funny about this, just talking about how this is, they're desperate and like they're making up for missing on those guys they drafted in the third round last year, which, first of all, I don't know how many third round picks you expect to be this instant hit as a weird move tight end. Second of all, teams do this all the time.

The bills drafted A.J. Epinessa in the second round last year. They tried to sign J.J. Watt. they drafted Ed Oliver in the first round in the top 10 and they spent in free agency on Vernon Butler and Quentin Jefferson last year. You can draft players at a position and then try to supplement that position with free Asians if you like those guys. Every team does this. It's okay. I don't love the approach, but I don't suddenly think it means the Patriots are scrambling and they have no answers or anything like that.

I want to slow down on that sort of framing with what's happened in New England here over the last couple of days. All right. Speaking of the bills, just really quick, Gronk went back to the Bucks on an $8 million deal. Mike Silver reported today that he had a conversation with Buffalo, Grancowski did, about maybe going up there. That's his hometown. Him and Brian Dable have a very good relationship. So that doesn't surprise me. It also would have been really fun. Grunk in that bill's offense. I mean, that is a spot where they 100% could have used an upgrade, an injection of a player like Grancowski with his talent, his versatility. I'm not surprised he went back to Tampa Bay, but that's still an interesting kind of thought that the bills thought they could

use somebody like that. The fact that the bill's two main pushes that we've heard about in free agency were J.J. Watt and Rob Grankowski, I think that speaks to where the bills are right now as a franchise. Like those are the last little finishing touches you want to put on that roster, and I can understand the guys they're chasing and why. Let's stay in the AFC East here. I love what the Jets did. Yeah. I don't like... They're supposed to do the pod. So last week, we did an entire podcast about our under the radar guys. And before we got into those guys, including Kendrick Bourne, who was on your list,

we talked about some of the guys that were near the premium tier in free agency that we still really liked. Guys, we thought that even at their price would probably bring value to a team. Those two guys for us were Corey Davis and Carl Lawson, both of whom are now New York Jets. So when you saw the Davis numbers, right, I know you love him. what was your reaction when you saw that contract three years 37 and a half million 27 million guaranteed it felt like a fair price to me yeah that's exactly it I looked at it at first I was like oh they overpaid you know that's just that's your until you get to context every time it's the immediate reaction you see the numbers and you go oh my god that's a lot and then you start putting into context you start seeing positional value okay and then we and then we go from there yeah I thought it was fair they paid him like a number one and a half and that's what he is that's I mean that's basically what it's the 18th highest AAV among receivers in the NFL. Perfect. Which feels perfect to me.

Yes. Perfect. I know. I know. But the problem is he goes to New York. So of course they're going to have expectations. Not the team, but everything around it.

But I thought that was perfectly fair. It makes total sense. And it's reasonable enough. And he's just going to have to live up to it. You know, it's in New York. But you know what also with Corey Davis, just from what you hear is just also he's a great guy.

So it's a great culture builder. I don't know much about Carl Loss. but I'm going to guess usually those undersides like kind of like real hardworking guys every time I ever heard a interview with him or just anything he's had to say I've been impressed I mean he did an interview with uh Paul Diner and our guys at the athletic the Bengals writers they did a podcast with him last week and I mean he seemed very insightful really thoughtful so I think that it's same kind of deal most likely I thought that that's don't make sense yeah it just makes sense just because what they need there it's just so many things well just real quick with with Corey Davis is that also it kind of makes sense because he compliments the guy I like they took last year with Denzel Mims who battle injuries last year. How do you think they fit together? How do you think that their skill sets differ? I think it's great. I think Mims is, I think Mims has the upside of a true X.

I don't, uh, I think that's what he is. He's just a big long X. And I think Davis is a true Z. And then they, I actually really like Braxton Berrios that they had the, uh, the little slot receiver they had. And then, you know, who knows what they do with, uh, with Crowder. But, you know, but Braxton Barrios like, you know, that's a, he did some nice things in the slot, uh, whether that's just part of, uh, uh, whether that's just part

a losing team. We always see these kind of slot receivers step up like a microwave six man for a bad NBA team when you're on a bad NFL team. You start seeing guys against 70 targets. You're like, who the hell is this guy? But he did some nice things. I just think it's a nice,

I think as far as a receiving core, like they really are starting to, they compliment each other pretty well. You know, of course there might need maybe that kind of like shooting guard or small forwarder in that offense. I think Corey Davis is more like a power forward and means like a center. And various is the point guard.

So I think they need those other two. But it's like I really do kind of like what they're looking at as far as just structure for the receiving core. It also feels like he's a scheme fit there. I mean, think about all the play action concepts they're going to run with Matt Lafleur being there now. It's an extension of that same sort of offensive tree. Obviously, the Titans offense had its own little quirks when compared to what Shannahan did.

But still, a lot of in breaking routes, a lot of play action stuff. We've seen him live on those exact sorts of plays. He's a willing run blocker. I mean, all of the things that you saw for. for him in Tennessee, I think, are applicable to what he would have to be within the Jets offense. I mean, you look at the deal. It's, again, 18th in AIV for receivers. It's a 1B contract for a 1B receiver. And it's the same deal Hunter Henry got. Like, when you're digging into free agency coming away with Corey Davis for the same contract that Hunter Henry got,

I think that's pretty good, man. Like, I would feel very good about that. So let's move to Carl Lawson, it's the same contract, essentially, just an edge rusher form. So Lawson gets three years, $45 million, $30 million of that guaranteed. So first two years guaranteed, which that's, we're going to talk about Trey Hendrickson in a second, but that's the difference between those two deals. Lawson's guarantees with the Jets go into year two, more assurances, totally understand that. It's 18th in Aavie for edge rushers at $15 million. It's the same as the Corey Davis contract. I don't know that. That's great.

And he is a 1B rusher who's getting paid like a 1B rusher. And the scheme fit stuff, I think, completely applies there to. You look at what Sal is going to bring over there. Aaron White Cotton, I believe is their defensive line coach's name. I would keep forgetting it. He was the assistant with the Niners last year. I assume he's going to bring that same wide nine approach. They're going to put loss in it right end and say, go get it, buddy.

Go get it. You go get it. And I just, I love. that pure pass rusher on that right side, and I love Davis as that Shanahan outside receiver. I think it makes total sense, and I think they didn't overpay. These are reasonable contracts, and the Jets need building blocks, and it's hard to find building blocks and free agency. I think these are the two types of guys where you can thread that needle. So if I were a Jets fan, I would be very excited about landing these two guys. It's, I don't want to say desperate, but it's nice to see a desperate team with

needs fill them, but not bankrupt everything. Like they did it, they did the process correctly. And it was like, okay, we got, we got our guys, we filled up a need. They got paid a decent amount. I think everyone's happy here as far as the organizational standpoint, which is cool. It's really cool to see. And the team did it twice with two guys we liked. So these two positions, I think, are an interesting case study because when you look at

the players available in the draft, it's apparently a very strong receiver draft and a very weak edge rush or class. So when you're looking at that and the demand we've seen for both of those spots, edge rushers have flown off the shelf. We've only seen a couple receivers signed. I think Diana Rossini reported earlier today that she was talking to a free agent receiver whose market hadn't developed. We may see more one-year deals there.

So when you're in a building and you're trying to balance the players available in free agency and the guys available in the draft, do those inform one another in a direct way? Good teams, yeah. Good teams will have that college director in to kind of be like, okay, what's what's the board look like? Because a scouting staff generally have meetings in December and then you try to have meetings, you know, post-combine leading up to the draft. And but that's the thing.

It's like, okay, so you have the December meetings, wherever it comes in. Okay, right before, you know, bowl games and all that fun stuff starts in January before the senior bowl. So you kind of get that first board up. That's your official big board number one. And going from there, then that's when it's on the college director or really just the process whoever, however the, uh, the, uh, the tree runs for whatever the personnel department is. But it's really on the, uh, the college director to kind of communicate and they,

they have to have a good communication and, and also the GMs have faith in that. The GM might just go, yeah, you say it's a good receiver class, but I really like this guy. And just totally bogart it and just whatever, blow it up. Um, but yeah, I think that's just a proper communication channel that needs to happen. Um, pro director, college director, director of player personnel, however, they have it broken down. They just need to communicate to the GM. I think some GMs just say, you know, fuck it and they just go. But I do think the, I do think the good ones just go, okay, okay, it's a deep receiver class. Oh, wow. Actually, it's a good class next year, too, for what we see on these early grades we got on guys. Okay. And,

you know, the kick around ideas and they workshop it from there. And then they talk to agents and then whoever the cap guy is on their team. But that's how I kind of see it is that, or I've been around. That's how the process is. And some teams are just better at it than others and understanding that. because some teams just go, whatever, we'll take them. Best player available, right? It's like, okay, not free agency. But yeah, okay. But, yeah, some teams do that.

All right. So let's talk about Trey Hendrickson. Let's stick with the past rushers here because obviously Carl Lawson leaves. Trey Hendrickson steps into that spot. If you look at the numbers as they were reported, four years 60 million, similar to the Lawson deal. I'd rather have Lawson. Why would Carl Lawson take a similar deal to go to the Jets when the Bengals were willing to offer Trei Hendrickson that money?

And then you get into the guarantees. Hendrickson only has $10 million to sign and there's nothing guaranteed past the first year, which is typical for the Bengals. They don't often include guarantees past the first season. So the difference in that guarantee structure makes the deal that Lawson got from the Jets a little bit more attractive. How do you feel about the Hendrickson contract? I mean, you're switching out Lawson for him. We talked about Hendrickson on the last show that we did.

I was of the opinion that I'd probably rather let another team sign him, especially at this price. I think that there's a lot of hustle sacks in there. His pressure numbers were good, but I just don't think he's on the same level as a guy like Carl Lawson. So what's your takeaway from seeing the details of that deal? Yeah, the guarantees kind of makes it a little more tolerable, but still, it's just like, pay your dude. If you're going to spend splurge that much, just pay your guy. Like he knows the system. I shouldn't say knows the system, but knows the culture.

You know him, so you know personalities. Maybe he just doesn't want to be there, but that's a whole other chapter. Based on everything he had said, that didn't seem. to be the case. So I'm telling you, man, if I were a guy in that Bengals defense and I saw what just happened and I got like this guy I've never met before is now standing next to me and it's the same price and we saw what Lawson did last year. That would raise some eyebrows to me for sure.

That's like with a Bucks did a couple years ago with McCoy and Sue. Like they just they kind of like swapped one guy up for the other. It was like it kind of pissed off a lot of people. It worked out fine. So don't, I don't think. Yeah. They had there and that's why no one remembers it because it worked out okay. That that's the problem.

I think Henderson got overpaid. We knew that going in. We talked about the long snapper. He just, I rewatched him again, the last guy. I can't, I can't not call him that.

Like, I watched him again. And I was just like, I find the long sniper. It's really hard to get excited about that guy. It's really. It really is. If I were the,

I like, he's fine. He's fine player. But if I were, when you watch how he looks like on the field, even just pictures of him that were in the tweets about the contract, I was like, oh, God,

it'd just be so hard to get really pumped. It'd be so hard to get pumped up about this guy. I hate that I'm harping on this so much, but like even when watching film, it's so easy to find him because it's just like, all right, find the guy with no gloves, long sleeves.

And he's got short arms. So what I did notice with Henderson rewatching him again was that he's the classic guy. He's a true, like we just said Lawson. I think Lawson is more, what you said a 1B, a number one and a half.

Like that's what he is. Henderson is a two. I mean, that's what he is. He's a two. So that'll put you in the tears right there. One's a one and a half to other guys are two. Hendrickson is the classic guy that beats up bad teams. And then once he goes against all pro level talent or caliber tackles, he's just a guy.

It's because he's not refined. His game isn't varied in the way that Lawson's is. And he has short arms. And when you have 32 inch arms, he actually is surprisingly athletic. Oh, my God, I just said it. But he is athletic. Like he actually, he, I did see him bull rush Trent, uh, Trent, uh, Trent, uh, Trump, uh, he got into him a little bit.

Williams locked him down. I would say a Hendrickson played 40 snaps in that game. I would say 38 of them didn't do anything. He got him a couple times when he's able to get some, you know, speed to power. That's all he's got. And then like you said, his hands flow everywhere. He's not long enough to counter because his arms are so short. He's got, he only, he's got one chance to make a move because he's just not long enough

to create space. So as soon as he makes the one move and if that doesn't work, he is proper fucked. And it reminds me of the, it just reminds me of the scene in the club from knocked up. It's like he keeps going back to the dice. It's always got. That's exactly. It's, it's always got. That's exactly.

He's using a dice move too much. I think that's always got. It's always got. Trey Hendrickson just, he's using that bull rush way too much. I think that's all he's got, man. It's always got. But yeah, he's the, like, we all know what he is. He's a hustle player.

He's going to get some cleanup sacks, but you need a number one with him to, to unlock him. Otherwise, he's going to be a five and a half, six sack guy, getting paid like a 10-sack guy. And that's the problem. And I think that was always in the cards for him, depending on the help that was around him. They're getting DJ Reader back. You know, we'll see how that defense unfolds. They signed a couple guys in the secondary as well. They brought in Chiodobee Ouzier.

They brought in Mike Hilton. With some of these corners, I'm honestly going to kind of withhold judgment on some of these deals so I could watch them a little bit more. The Ouzier contract, Shrek, Shrek, I don't want to look at PFF grades and then act like I've watched 17 games of all of these guys. I'm just not going to do that. But with Hilton, I like Mike Hilton. That's a guy I've watched a lot. I think that just from an approach standpoint, looking at Awosier and Hilton, signing them for a combined $13-ish million a year, instead of spending on a $13 million a year corner, we'll see what William Jackson is going to make. But it offends up being that range.

That is in terms of being a plan. I understand that. I understand spreading out your free agent money in the secondary in that way, even if I don't know exactly how much Wuzier is going to move the needle for them on a talent level. Yeah, I'm just very curious. They didn't help about that O line at all. I thought they were, I thought they're just going to find some mid tier, lower mid tier kind of two year deal just to shore up. Just get something in there. So that's why I was kind of curious about there.

Still might, but it's the Bengals. Bengals are kind of one of those teams. They just kind of do things. You're like, yeah, it's the Bengals. You know, Bengals, Raiders and Texans now at this point, they just kind of, they're beaten to their own drum for better for worse. And yeah, I get it. they pay for the corners last year. They're paying for him again.

Fine. If you're going to pay for a position, that might be one to do it at. That's how I have always looked at it. But yeah, I just want to see him short up to the line a little bit. Otherwise, you know,

Joe Burrow got out last year and he might get knocked out again this year. So I think that the Bengal situation, it reminds me a little bit of the Patriots, right? Where they sign all these contracts, Von Bell, Trey Wains, DJ Reader, Mike Hilton, Chidobio Wuzier,

Trey Hendrickson. They're going to have all. All of these free agents on that side of the ball and spent all of this money. They finished 27th the defensive DVOA last year. I know some guys were hurt. Yeah. But after you make all of these moves and there's all of this movement and all of these dollars thrown around, it just feels like a show game where you wind up in a similar place.

I just don't know how much better it gets. I think that defense and plugging holes on defense is typically a smarter way to spend than on the other side of the ball unless it's the offensive line. But I still just don't know where you are after all. all of this flurry of stuff. And I think that's the biggest question always about spending and building in free agency this way. Yeah.

Different isn't always better. I think that's just how you have to look at. Different isn't always better. It might be, but just because it's different doesn't make it better. All right. Let's stick with the edge rushers here. And let's stick in the AFC and sort of in the AFC North came from the AFC North. I'm really trying to tie these threads together.

I love that. I know. I was like, oh, wow. Okay, there we go. It's terrible transitions. No, you're the king. Bud Dupree signs with the Titans. Five years, $82.5 million, $35 million guaranteed, again, just the first two years.

That's a $16.5 million a year average, though. It's a big, big contract for Bud Dupree. As you're looking at how that deal stacks up with some of the other contracts handed out, two-edge rushers in this class, what are you thinking? I've always been thinking of Dupree as just a good starter-level player as opposed to a Pro Bowl caliber player. I think he, God, I'm just going to keep saying this because that's what free agency is. He's a good number too.

But it doesn't have to be, but it doesn't have to be. I know. Carl Larson was not this. So I think that there are different. It doesn't have to be. And I think we have to understand that. And you can see the Titans, they have a certain type, no matter what the position is. They like big athletic guys. That is what they go after.

Every position, receiver, lined, quarterback. I mean, running back. I mean, every position they have, they want big and athletic guys. That is just what the stamp they have on all these guys. He's just supercharged clowny. That's what he is. I mean, he's supercharged clown. Literally was about literally was about to say that.

I said, I tried not to use the word literally, but literally was about to say that. I said the Titans, they have Landry, who's a solid player. I think Jeffrey Simmons is a real good player who might even ascend at another level this next year into like the national spotlight. That's a solid trio with Dupree. And Dupree is what they thought Clownie was going to be. them. That's what I think what DePrie actually is. In their head, this guy pushing a pocket, a lot of speed to power, disruptive in the run game more in the sense that he blows the edge back. He can dominate tight ends and go off to right tackles in the sense. As opposed to Clowney,

who's more of a knifer. Like he can do speed to power. He's not bendy at all, but more of a guy, Clowney likes to a knife in. Like he likes to, he's best when he's moving, when he's a spinner, when he can slant inside to the B gap. That's when Clowny's unlocked. Dupre is more unlocked when he can just straight rush or slice inside, but use his size and his speed or athleticism to kind of like really make a little speed to power

on every single play. And I think that's more of what it was. Like if Clowny's going to get TFLs, because that's what he is. Clowny is a big play guy. Dupree is more going to hold up for five straight runs, not make a tackle, but he'll set the edge all five of those times.

And also I think he's a guy who's going to make plays down the line of scrimmage. That's how he uses his athleticism. You're going to see him chase guys down when he's unblocked on the backside. But that's my problem. You go back and people that have game pass or even those that don't, I implore you, punch Bud Dupree's name in there and see every single time Bud Dupree gets a sack or a tackle or a quarterback hit and see how many of those plays he's unblocked because it happens a lot.

And he has the ability and the athleticism to take advantage of those situations. He's really explosive. That's why he was a first round pick. His testing numbers are crazy. And even coming off in ACL, I expect him to add that volatility to the defense in a good way. But he is not a pure edge guy that's going to be dominating in pastoral situations. And I also think this is sort of similar to the Hendrickson thing. When you go from a defensive front where you are at best, the third best player,

and you get the attention of a third best player, and now you are the guy, making the money, that's a jump. And we have seen plenty of disappointments come from that exact scenario. It's possible that they are betting on the traits and the explosiveness and what he's going to be able to do and being a chaos created for that defense. But that's a lot of money for a guy who to me is not a pure dominant edge rusher. So they also signed De Niko Autry. Three years, $21 million. De Niko Autry is a nice player.

I think it's really funny that the Colts got him for three years. and 18 million three years younger. And that's the difference in the type of view is the cult sign and that other team sign is the Colts got to Nicodacharate three years and 18 million when he was 28. And the Titans got him for three years, 21 when he was 31. Just like tiny little edges there. But that's the type of stuff that matters. It's funny to me. And the Titans also came out right before we started recording.

They released to Dory Jackson. So you see their plan flipping with how they allocate their resources. Last year, they were number one in the league in cap money allocated to the secondary, and they finished 30th in defensive DVOA. So they have made a drastic shift there where they released guys in the secondary, and now they're trying to figure out on the fly how they're going to end up remaking this defense. And obviously, that is including pumping a lot of different resources into the front seven. So that's what they're doing.

they looked at the equation they had last year and the way that everything fit together and said, this isn't working, we have to change this up in a dramatic way. And I think that's what you're seeing

with the Dupree signing, with the Autry signing. But that still leaves some holes at corner. You know, they lose Malcolm Butler. They lose Adore Jackson now. And now they have to figure out how they're going to fill those spots

and it's not like they have a ton of resources. This is what happens. When you end up spending, top-up market money, a quarterback, top of market money on your running back, and you have a very expensive offensive line, all of that stuff. That's how I would do it. But you're left with limited avenues to improve your defense.

And that's kind of where we found the Titans in this moment. Yeah. I made the joke with one of them cutting Jackson is that they, I mentioned before that they have a certain type that they go after, big and athletic. And I was saying that Jackson, you know, they literally just only want guys that run through walls, like not just a figure of speech. They actually want guys that can run through a wall. So I think that's why they got rid of a Dory Jackson.

I think with what they have, they have a whole bunch of number twos as far as pass rush. And Dupree, like you said, it's more he's the clean, God, I don't want to say the cleanup guy because he's not getting in there. But I mean, at least he's going to be the, he's going to push the pocket. He's going to do those things. Like you said, run it down. But they're paying him like a number one guy that's that even without dialing. it up stuff, like having a game for them or anything with that.

You expect him to get a sack every other week. I don't think he's going to be doing that. They're going big athletic. They need help in the draft. I mean, they need a receiver. Defensively, it's just kind of, I don't know. We saw what, we saw what a variable defense looked like last year. And it was just kind of like, eh.

And that's what his defense was. It was objectively very bad. It was not good. And that's what his defense was, were with the Texans. The good tight defense from 2019 was Dean Peace. You know, and this defense this past year, and good is a stretch, by the way.

It was an acceptable defense. They were like 18th or something. Yeah, they're like 18th or something. They were just more disruptive. Their bus packages were fond, so that's why I think they're good. They were a decent defense situationally. They were able to make something happen in some high leverage moments, but down to down, they were not that good.

So, Dora Jackson gets released after his fifth year option was picked up. That's the exact same thing that happened to Leonard Floyd last year. Leonard Floyd signs a, one year, $10 million deal with the Rams to try to rebuild his value, has an excellent season in terms of sack production, a lot of splashy plays, and he somehow manages to turn that year into a four-year, $64 million contract with the Rams. The guarantees have not been announced on that deal yet. I haven't seen them anywhere, so I don't want to read too much into this, but that is a

very rich deal on a per year basis for Leonard Floyd after having one great season in terms of sacks with the Rams. If you look at the underlying numbers with Floyd last year, he had 44 pressures that ranked 28th among edge defenders, and he had the third most pass rush snaps of any edge player in the league. So it's not as if the opportunities weren't there. So that's a lot of money to pay for a guy who I think was deployed in the perfect way with the defensive coordinator in Brandon Staley who knows him inside and out. He had him in Chicago, wanted him in L.A., new creative ways to use him. He's a really strange player.

He, it's, I don't really know how to value him in some ways because of all the weird stuff he does. But I still think even with that kind of opacity to understanding his true value, $16 million a year is a lot for Leonard Floyd. Yeah, I thought the Rams were going to do the smart thing. Like when they let Dante Fowler go, I was like, okay, yeah, they at least know, okay, not to overpay these guys like at the Aaron Donald bump. but they did they got away from that pretty quickly. I thought they were just going to keep doing one and two year rentals with these retread guys

and just kind of keep, hey, name guys, pedigree, pedigree, pedigree, and just keep doing it over and over. You know, but it's in sign elsewhere and get maybe get a comp pick out of it if they do it right. But you know, Adam done that the Ravens, we call that the Ravens. Yeah, the Ravens. It's the Ravens. It's the Raiders. It's the ball some more move.

You know, you know, Adam Dunn, the baseball player. Of course. He was Mr. Three Outcomes, Home Run, Strikes. out take a walk. That's what the Rams are from a team building standpoint. It's like they are just home run. The true outcomes, baby. That's it. That's all we get. Hey, we're not leaving up to fielding. We're not leading it up to someone ascending. No, we're putting it all on us. We're going to three outcomes. This could be great for us. It's going to suck for us or at least we know what's happening.

Like that's that's kind of what they're doing. It's a lot. I've always thought Leonard Floyd is really a guy that's a number three on a team on a on a defensive front. That's ideally what he is. as a number two, I always thought size was going to be something. And I believe he was older, too, coming out of Georgia. But it's one of those things where I thought size was always going to be an issue for him to be able to sustain that many snaps in NFL, NFL pace. You just said that you have one of the most pasturesary steps in the entire NFL, which is interesting. He's fine. Like, he's fine.

He did exactly what was asked of him. They did a lot of games with him that were very smart. The one that we can all picture is him stacking Russell. and Russell Wilson in the playoffs. And that came on a late game where he's coming around. And he's good for that because he's good enough to get it done. But it's not like it's because of him. If that makes sense,

he's good enough to do what you're asking him to do. He's not going to screw anything up. He's not going to make anything look bad. He's always going to look fine. And he's going to look good and solid. But they're paying him like, I mean, they're paying him like they have two all pros on the front now.

And I don't know. I think it's just way too much for what he is. I think they can find that in other way. I know that's easier said than done, especially what situation they're in right now. It just seems like a lot. I don't know who they're outbidding. It's a very Ramsey and thing. But I just thought after the Fowler thing that they maybe would have gone about this in a different way.

Maybe they couldn't, but it's weird. I totally agree. I think that they're paying for a player who was in the perfect situation last year. That's the guy that they're paying for. And I think it's going to be hard for him to replicate that production. So speaking of Leonard Williams, this happened right before we started recording. signing, signs an extension with the Giants. Three years, $63 million with $45 million guaranteed.

Oh, my God. Leonard Williams was really good last year. I think that the way he played inside and outside, you saw all the different things he could do, by far the most pass-rushing production of his entire career. That is a ton of money for Leonard Williams. That is like the best defensive players in the league type money for Leonard Williams. that's Chris Jones type money. And Godspeed to the Giants, but that is a lot for a guy who has one year of elite

past rushing production. They paid him like DeForest Buckner and he's like a Diet Coke version of DeForest Buckner. Yes. Man, it just, yeah, that's a, I mean, Giants are another one of those teams. I just talked about it earlier where you kind of just stopped trying to figure out what they're trying to do. That one, I mean, he just loves Leonard Williams. they they just that David Gettleman just loves them.

They trade for them talking about him nonstop since he got him and now, you know, bumping him up with a long deal. But I, he's fine. Like he's a good, he's a good, no, I would say he's fine.

He's better and fine. He's a good player, but they're treating him like he's all pro every year, not been an okay, solid starter for a few years and then have one good year when he was in a better scheme. You pay guys that are scheme proof. You don't pay guys.

This is, we'll just continue the conversation with Leonard Floyd. You don't pay the guys that got unlocked into your system. You pay the guys that no matter what freaking system they're in, they look good. They unlock it. That's the thing. It's which direction is it going. Correct.

That's important. And yeah, that one is just kind of like a, they're being against themselves types of thing. Like, I just don't get it. I like what they have there, though. The fact that now we have, we've talked about this. Bradbury Williams, Martinez played really well last year. It's encouraging to me that they're getting the most out of these guys, that we're seen career years from the players that are winding up in that defense.

Talking to players there, that's not surprising to me. They really like Patrick Graham. I think that he's done a really good job of distilling what the scheme is and what they want to accomplish. I thought the flexibility they showed of not playing nearly as much man as they had wanted to when he took that job over and looking at the players he had. It was a really well-coached unit, and it's encouraging that they're getting the most out out of these guys.

But now you're going to have to get a lot out of Leonard Williams to extract value from that deal. So speaking of giants, defensive players that cashed in because that defense got the most out of them. Dalvin Tomlinson, two years, $22 million from the Vikings,

$20 million in practical guarantees. Again, I like Dalvin Tomlinson. I was watching him today. Very few guys in the league better at using their hands in the run game. The extension he gets on run plays and how he controls offensive.

It literally looks like drill work on a sled, where he's pushing the sled back and throwing into his side. I mean, it's the stack and shed stuff that he does is really impressive. He's a fantastic run defender. The problem is he had 28 pressures last year. And now you're pairing him with Michael Pierce, who is more of a run stuffing defensive tackle. So if you're paying Tomlinson to now be your penetrating pass rush influence three technique at $11 million a year, I think that's setting him up to fail, even if you're dominating on Instagram.

on early down. So I think it could absolutely work out. They have two guys now with Pearson Tomlinson that are a true pain in the ass to play against. It's going to be a long days for some of the guard tantams that have to face those guys. But I still think in a league where pass rushing juice is really important, there may be some redundancy in the ways that they spent on those two guys. It seemed like a classic thing that NFL teams do. And Vikings are generally one of the smarter teams. but it's a classic thing they do.

It's like, because I think there were 30th against a run last year. And it's. They're overcorrecting. Okay. Overcorrecting, correct. Correct about the overcorrecting. And they rather than going like, okay, we're going to have this. We're going to do this.

Hey, a little better coaching. We'll regress upwards a little bit. It'll be fine. They just went, no, no, we have to plug it up, pun intended. Like, we have to plug this hole. Like we had to get this guy. We need this type of player. He's going to send our whole defense because we sucked on defense.

as opposed to going like, oh, we went from a below average to average. They want to go below average to good. And it's like, and they overspend on that. We actually did my, when I first got to the Falcons, that's actually a similar situation that the Falcons were in. And it's that they, they thought the theory at the time, this was 2014. And it's hilarious in hindsight. And hilarious at the time I was about to say, they had a theory that they're like,

hey, you know, Mike Nolan was our defense coordinator. If we show up against the run, you know, it's going to make passing more difficult because third down is going to be longer. And I'm not going to really say he was in charge with this whole theory. Hey, just tell the story here. So they signed Tyson Jackson and they signed Paul Soli. And it's like, okay, that's great. That's great.

And then we already had another nose on the roster. God, Paul Solio, I totally forgot about that. Right. That entire Falcons offseason was wild. Their physicality at all costs is what I would call about Falcons off season. Screw athleticism. Screw athleticism. it's toughness and competitiveness. Those are the two things. Toughness and competitiveness. That's it.

So obviously, I mean, the Vikings are going to be tough up the middle. You get bar back. You have Kendrick's healthy. You have those two guys in the middle. We'll see what happens with DeNeil Hunter. A lot of accounts that he is unhappy with the deal he signed. I can understand why he would be as he watches Bud Dupree and Leonard Floyd makes $16 million a year. So what does that front end up looking like? It's a big question. But it's the same as with anything else in free agency. If you look at the moves that they made and you look at the Pierce Tomlinson combination and how that could affect the run defense, these are good players. They are better now than they were yesterday. But this is also a team that needs starters along the offensive line that has other questions

and other spots. What are they going to do with safety? If Eric Karas ends up leaving. I mean, it's just a lot of stuff that they have to consider with this. And that's why it's not just about adding talent. It's about opportunity costs, about where else you're focusing. on and if you start piling on resources in one area when you have weaknesses elsewhere, where does that leave you? And I think that's a big question to ask about the Vikings. Again, it's going to be

a long, shitty day for guys trying to run block against that team, but where does that take you? So really quickly, just happened. Janoris Jenkins has signed with the Titans reported a couple different places. Makes sense. I mean, again, they're trying to find secondary players at a discount. If we're talking about physicality and guys that play a little bit differently, Genoris Jenkins plays a little bit differently than Adori Jackson. He fits their vision in a way that Adori Jackson does not.

So you can understand that. I think that that deal makes sense. So I want to talk about extending from this Dalton thing. We're talking about stopgap quarterbacks. I want to have a conversation about the Ryan Fitzpatrick to Washington fit because there have been, I think, some differing opinions. on how good of an idea this is for Washington. It's one year up to 12 million.

I think the base is 10 million. I love it. I think it makes total sense. So you agree. You think this is a smart move for them. Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, as much as me and you like, like, handy key and stuff, it's like, I mean, they're guaranteeing themselves competence in some way. That's exactly right. We talk about a million times. It's not just thinking, we talk about competence as a quarterback position to evaluate everybody else.

else. Washington is just in such a weird situation where their defense is like Super Bowl contender worthy and their offense is like, no, we might win one game. But it's like it's not just throwing the ball accurately and being a quarterback or being a thrower, but being a quarterback as a whole. Knowing protections. Now the old line, like a little bit of stress is lift off them if it's Fitzpatrick who's going to know every protection scheme like the back of his hand. And just a little bit to actually play because the QB will actually know where the hell to go with protections, where to hell to go with the ball. So if the play is designed okay and at least we have competence around them, we can evaluate a guy like Antonio Gibson so we can see him on all three downs as opposed to catching some panic checkdown because the quarterback has no idea what the concept is. I mean, it's just going to be such, it was already a transition when we saw. We saw Heineke at the end of the year and compared to Haskins at the beginning of the year. And it's like, Haskins wasn't sent protections.

He wasn't like saying, he was just, hey, I'm getting to snap off. and I know my number one to read and I'm going there. It's like, okay, now you can maybe see like, guy, go make a play or the play progress how it's supposed to. I think, I think it's a good signing. It makes a total sense. I didn't even bat an eye at that one. Like that it was like, oh, yep, makes sense.

Good. Win, win, yep, go from there. So I think Heineke would have been a reasonable solution. But what happened in the one game that Taylor Heineke started last year? Well, they were competent. He got hurt. Oh, yeah, but that's right, because he's small. That's that's that's also the tradeoff.

That's the thing. There's so many of those six foot, six one, 200, two hundred, two and five pound quarterback. That plays with reckless abandoned, with no regard for his physical well-being. So he plays one game last year and has to go out.

So we're one Taylor Heinekeke collarbone away from another season of Kyle Allen. And I just don't think they were willing to endure that. If Heineke was, he had a spotless injury track record, everything else, it'd be a little bit more interesting. But they, it was a frustrating year offensively for Washington.

Washington last year. If you're a Scott Turner and you have to deal with the problems they were having with Haskins, Alex Smith not being able to move, you're dead last in every major offensive coordinator, bottom of the barrel offensive play. That wears on guys. That makes it difficult to evaluate the players on your team. It's tough for morale, everything. Fitzpatrick is just good enough.

He's the perfect British quarterback. $10 million gives him the 18th highest cap hit in the league for quarterbacks. but it's actually closer to 20 because Baker may, because some restructures. Mahomes is lower than him, Brady's lower than him. But in terms of true value, it's like the 20th quarterback right above the rookie guys. It's perfect.

He's just good enough where you can evaluate the guys around you. He's a perfect locker room presence. You can move on from him after a year. If you look at some of the other bridge quarterback contracts that have been handed out recently, Teddy Bridgewater, three years, $60 million, $33 million guaranteed. Mike Glennon, $14 million in year one, $18.5 million guaranteed. Case Keenham, $25 million guaranteed.

$10 million for Ryan Fitzpatrick for one year as you kind of figure out what you want to be, that's ideal. If they wanted Matthew Stafford, they absolutely did. And when they missed out on him, I think this is your next best option. Is it ideal? Of course not. You'd much rather be in a spot to pick in the top 10, find your quarter. of the future and then drop him into the situation. But they made the playoffs and they don't want to go backwards.

They want to build on what that was. And that puts you in quarterback purgatory. But I think if you ask people in that building, they would be willing to endure the uncertainty about finding their guy at that spot if it meant that they could consistently be competitive. And that's exactly what Fitzpatrick is going to end up giving them. He gets you over the necessary bar offensively. And I think that is what they need. needed this year. I don't think they needed to mortgage their future for name your option. I mean, there weren't that many of them. I think doing it for Stafford would have been fine, but where else are

they going to get a quarterback this year? They're not, and if maybe they trade up for one, but what's that going to cost you? Do you think you're that close? I think this is a perfect way to not be in the desperation mode. It's what the bears should have done like two years ago. And they didn't do. I love how this fits with how I see the timeline and the plan in Washington. I think it makes perfect sense. Yeah, I don't know why people, you know, when Nick Folles got, what, four years, almost $90 million. Like for the Jaguars and we're going to, right,

clutch our pearls over this, so one year, $12 million, probably a 10-mill signing. The one downside to me is he's too good. And if you were eight and eight again, where does that put you? But who knows? Maybe next year, like, did we think Matthew, you Stafford would be available at this time last year. I mean, what happens next year if the Raiders are bad again? And they're sitting there being like, what do we need to do something?

And maybe this time next year, they're willing to trade Derek Carr. You trade his first round pick for Derek Carr at $23 million a year. And that's an improvement for you. Again, that's not the sexiest idea in the world. But I do think Derek Carr with Terry McCorren, Antonio Gibson, a really good offensive line, a top five defense and whatever else they add in the draft at receiver, that suddenly becomes kind of interesting. That is a reasonable team.

So if they're going to continue to try to build this, I think that Fitzpatrick makes perfect sense for those plans. All right, let's stick with stopgap quarterbacks here. James Winston, $5 million base up to $12 million in New Orleans. I don't know what to make of this. It feels like it's going to be a true quarterback competition with those two guys. That's what we've heard everyone say.

I think Cat Terrell said today, like, when have you seen real quarterback competitions? Do those ever work out? But I think this makes sense as a breeze succession plan. I think James can end up being pretty good there if he ends up winning that job, which for Saints fans, for their sake, I hope that's the case. You know, and it kind of reminds me maybe not at the same level. But I mean, like the Saints, Washington, even New England, like, who knows what they draft somebody.

but like they're willing to kind of more spraying prey at the quarterback position. See if they could find their starter and at some form of under market way and have the competence around them or be team building and then find the quarterback late. It reminds like when my dad first got to the Vikings in the mid-90s, like that's kind of how the Danny Green Vikings were a little bit built. Like they changed their quarterback like every year or two. It went like Warren Moon. There's no Randall Cunningham around here, man. Randall, I know, but that's what I was about to say. That's why I don't want to compare because the quarterback room wasn't Randall Cunningham and Jeff George.

it's it's James Winston and Tase him. But same kind of thing where it's like, hey, the rest of our team and our offense is really good. We just need a trigger man to like kind of just get shit done. That will be maybe what they're going after. But I guess that's what they're doing. That's the path they're going on. I've seen many of times that they are getting a quarterback mocked to him with some successor.

I don't think they're going that way. I think they're just going to let these two roll with it and look like, you know, whatever, like Steve Spurrier in the mid-90s, like, but two like Danny Warrer. Warfroll and the other quarterback they had back there just rotate. And I'm going to tell them to play and they run out there. They don't even need the headset anymore. They'll just rotate quarterbacks like that, like some high school team. But I mean, seriously, that's what I'm going to do.

But it's, yeah, that's kind of, I see what there is. Okay, now we've had a year with James. Obviously, they like him enough. Hey, we're going to another year, give him another shot. Curious, if they give them like a two-year deal, I'd been like, ooh, that's really interesting. But, you know, they pay taste them. I think they're just counting on their culture and they're counting on everything around

it just raising the level of play and being like, okay, what's the value what we have and then we go from here. But we'll see what they're doing. I don't hate it. I think the state's going to be pretty good next year. It's just so funny how different Tassum and James are, like just as players.

So it's like, I know totally different types of guys. And it's fun. It's just really interesting. I'm curious what they do. I think they could be pretty good this year. I think with James Winston and the rest of that roster staying more or less intact.

I mean, obviously they had to cut some of the facts. whether it's Jenkins or Malcolm Brown who was traded to the Jaguars, you know, guys that on the periphery that they had to lose, Hendrickson, I mean, obviously they're not as good and not as deep as they have been in years past, but that's still a really talented team, even if the second level of players isn't the best in the league the way that it was over the last couple years. I'm intrigued by them.

I absolutely think they could be a 10-win team with James Winston at quarterback. Easily. You could easily see that, like where it's like, oh, like, there, Tasem Hill has a hat. where he's the quarterback because of some weird thing. And it's like, oh, that was a fun game. Tastom Starr, James is back. Oh, Saints were their crazy QB situation.

And then, yeah, like you said, they go 10 and 6 and they're with the first wildcard team. Like, I can just see that easily. Just the rest of the team, they have a lot of really good players, just not at quarterback. But they have, that's a really fun, good team. And I can understand why, again, the purgatory, you feel like you're in a holding pattern. But Richard Sherman is rumored to possibly wanting to sign there. It's an attractive destination. Do you think Sean Payton wants to tear it down at this stage of his career?

Hell no. It's going to be very hard for that team to find a traditional path to a succession plan. If Jamis doesn't work out, then I think they're sitting there a year from now in the Russell Wilson trade conversation and whatever. Again, let's see where we are at a year. It's not worth mortgaging the future for some of these options. I think this is a totally acceptable way to be handling that position in this offseason. So I want to stick in the NFC South with quarterbacks very briefly here. It was not the biggest news of the day by any stretch, but something I wanted to ask you about.

Matt Ryan restructured his deal. So I want to say they converted $21 million into a bonus over the next three years, which means $7 million more dead cap in the next two years. That puts his dead cap hit in 2022 at $40 million, which the cap space is more valuable now, right, because of the depressed cap. If you assume it's going to go up, maybe we're in a position even as early as 2022, where you can absorb that $40 million hit if you want to move on from Matt Ryan. But this now feels like a situation where is quarterback at 4 as good of an idea or as likely as we thought it was two weeks ago?

I'm keeping an eye on this because in my mind, they wouldn't do anything to that deal because they didn't want to push any money into future years if they were going to move on from him. Now it's like, all right, now I'm watching that. Now I'm a little bit more intrigued by what the succession plan is there and if they are dead set on quarterback at four because they're a unique opportunity to draft one. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly how I look at it.

But my first kind of like looking at the cap hit for next year, I think I put it, it's in mid-40s. And I loved our theory, our idea. We're like, hell yeah. Hey, they got that kid from North Dakota State. Hey, this is the time. They got top five pick. This might be the time.

It almost made too much sense. Right. I know. I know. Maybe they listen. They're just like, no, no, we got to be hipsters. We can't do that. But it's, it's that.

It really was curious to me because I, all the stars were kind of aligning that they go down that path. I went to Keanu walk, Ricardo Allen. Like, I don't know, just something seems weird. Like they, I thought they were just stuck in that kind of like they want to do like a little soft reset with a new. quarterback living or you know, let him live behind Matt Ryan for a year and just

peacefully transition from there. But this looks like more like Arthur Smith and then we're going like, no, we're getting three more years out of them. And I mean, realistically, that's what it looks like. What do you think Matt Ryan, what do you think Matt Ryan's cap hit this next year? Next year. Yeah. After the restructure. 48.7. Who. Just kick it that can. Just kick it

down the road. Hey, the Saints way. They got a Saints GM there. They know all about it. I am excited about what the falcons offense could look like. I don't mind a plan of trying to have, see what you have in Matt Ryan for the next couple of years with that supporting cast. Again, I think they're in a unique situation now where they're too good to be picking forth overall and they might jump on that opportunity because let's look at the Saints. Let's look at the Colts. Let's look at what Washington may have to deal with.

What Chicago's doing with right now is not fun. if you have a chance to avoid that, even if you have a guy like Matt Ryan in place, I would jump on that chance, but it's possible they sat there and looked at it and said, we can win as currently constructed. Let's commit to this formula.

And if they end up doing that, then they end up doing that. Yep. So they had a point differential of an eight win team. That's what we got to remember. We're seven and change win team. They were just extremely unlucky

and had some bad losses early in the year. And I don't know if Matt Ryan's as good of a player as he was in 2016, but it doesn't even require, imagination to picture the falcons offense being good it's not like you have to it's not based on hope or like this far-fetched idea of this scheme and these players working you can see it in your head i can see hoolio running deep in breakers off heavy play action for 18 yard gains like it's easy for me julio being a j brown doesn't require any leaps of faith no squinting needed no

squinting needed that is like oh i know and it's like oh matt ryan in a move heavy system oh we saw that in 2016. So that worked out okay back then. I think it was okay. So I do need to squint to see the Raiders plan because I have, I am so confused. There has to be something going on there, right? Right. They announced today Rodney Hudson is going to be released.

It's going to be $12 million in dead money. Jason Fitzgerald from over the cap reported that he's willing to give up his $3 million in guarantees to bring the cap it down or the dead count from 15 to 12 that's still, and they saved 9 million in cash, I guess. So, I mean, like, but at a certain point, what are you now? So you have a team last,

it almost feels like the Raiders every single offseason there's playing whack-a-mole with their problems. It's like one problem goes down, hit it. Another problem pops up. It's like, all right, well, now we're going to spend all of our money on Yanni King Gakwe and whatever this is. We're going to cut all of our offensive alignment. So now your offensive line is going to be bad.

And other areas of your team might be better. I just, there seems to be no cohesion to the way that they're trying to do this. So if you lose Rodney Hudson, what's going to happen? They already cut Riching Incognito. Gabe Jackson, I think, is still technically on the roster, even if they thought they were going to move on from him. They traded Trent Brown. So now you have Colton Oler at left tackle. You have James Simpson.

Is that his name? John Simpson, the guy that drafted the fourth round last year. John Simpson, I think. Something Simpson. The draft from the fourth round last year. Homer. Homer. It seems like even if there is a plan there, their offensive line is going to be worse.

Rodney Hudson is a force multiplier along their offensive line. He makes every single guy better because of the influence he has. Your dad was his position coach for multiple years. You spent time around him. How would you characterize the influence Rodney Hudson has on an offensive line room and on a team in general? Yeah, we know left tackle, of course, is the most valuable spot. But the center has just as much you said, a force multiplier. It's the best way to put it.

They have so much effect on the entire room. Especially when you're the best pass blocking center in the NFL and maybe the smartest. Smartest. I was just about the one of the toughest and smartest. That's the thing with Rodney. He has a spatial awareness of, I mean, just rare, rare level spatial awareness. Him and Matt Burke. And it's, you know, with Rodney, he was a tone setter.

He had the all the expectations. He set the expectations and bars so high for the rest of the room. You know, you know, a Kenichi Assembly came in. Gabe Jackson's. there. Once Rodney, when when Assembly came in, you know, he was a year after Rodney, it was kind of like, they kind of have like a perfect meshing of personalities, you know, like just in how they go about things. So true. And Rodney was perfect. They're perfect for each other. I mean, they really were. I mean, I wouldn't say they're friends or anything, but as far as

being next to each other on offense line, it was great. And same with Gabe. And I think, yeah, like you said, Ronnie, because he was so, all right, here we go. So like every week, my dad or I think a lot line coaches do this, but they'll put together, you know, a blitz tape or whatever our main protections for the week are against all the blitz looks. And the best players, you know, when they have their iPads at home. So they're studying and, and usually the quarterbacks and a lot of the good centers, you'll hear a lot from them because they're actually studying. And then you hear other guys, you know, typically receivers going like, oh, did you watch that? Did you watch that cut up I made for you last night? Ah, no, I couldn't find it. It's like, oh, yeah, you've had the iPod for three years.

You can't find it. But with Rodney, it was if that cut up wasn't uploaded to his iPod by like five o'clock Tuesday or whatever day it was like noon Tuesday when he would like text everybody. Hey, hey, I haven't seen the blitz cut up yet. So it's, you know this guy is into it. Like it. You'd be like, oh, uh, let me check with the video guy. Hold on, hold on. We'll get it for you, Rodney. Because that's what he was. I love Rodney. He just as a dude too. But he is, he's that culture center of just toughness and being accountable and just high. I mean, every time you see a running touchdown or rushing touchdown, even if we're like a passing touchdown, maybe he's on the ground sprawling.

He like gets up and he's fist pumping the whole way down just going to like, you know, F yeah, F yeah, F yeah, just the whole way down. That's awesome for a whole team. That's what's so strange to me. This isn't some guy that Gabe, I understand that they moved on from. A little too expensive for maybe what they wanted. They're probably one zone stuff. I get that.

When you're a physical player and that's your number one characteristic and you're getting older, sometimes it becomes hard to justify that number. That makes sense. But Rodney, it's like he has so many intangible parts of his game that it's like, yeah, you're rolling the person. pay a premium for it, but on top of it, his play has not dropped off. So it's not like he's just getting older. I thought it was very strange what they're doing in Vegas. And it's one of, but we can say that all the time. Like you said, they're plugging one hole after one other,

another one pops up for forever. This seems like they're trying to fill a receiver. And it's like, okay, they might have a couple guys. Aguar leaves, rugs might be whatever, you know, a hunter rent for all the guy that took in the fifth round might actually be something. But it's like, they just keep throwing stuff at it. But with no like sense of like what everything is and value up for the guys that they're doing and pay and everything. I don't know. They just they just they do a lot of things that it's like I watch this guy on Monday night football and he was awesome on what sign them. Like without no study, no like vetting process. And that just seems what they too. I also saw a rumor there might be a cash flow issue without paying them. That's how bad it is is that every rumor

has you know some grain of truth to it. If you have a cash flow issue and you're given yonik and Gakwe two years, 26 million that I think we have to have conversation. I to me it's just there's no a sense of identity. There's no sense of what they want to be. I just think if you have that offense set with that personnel, tweak the defense. See if you can filter in different players in there. They have a top 10 offense by efficiency the last two years. That's what works.

Stick with what works. To me, there might be something happening there because they couldn't trade him. He's got a $9 million base salary. You couldn't get a pick swap for that or something? I don't know. That seems efficient to me. A third or a fourth? You can't get a third or fourth for him.

That seems fishy to me. So let's talk about where he might end up. If the Seahawks aren't calling him right now, right now, there are a dozen teams that could use Rodney Hudson on their team right now. He would represent an upgrade for most of the teams in the NFL. But for a Seattle team with space that needs a center and has a quarterback that has asked in somewhat reasonable ways. I'm back and forth on how much, whether or not Russell Wilson actually has a justifiable case, considering how much he adds to the issues and pass protection there. But this is not a lot.

This is not going outside of yourself or being irresponsible to upgrade your offensive line at a very important spot with arguably the best player in the league at that spot. Even at his age, even if you're not close, I still think he is worth it for so much. many teams. His agent's phone should be ringing off the hook right now. All right. He could be what Alex Mack was for the 2016 Falcons. Like that's what a good center does to an offense. Like having competent play is a sense, but like having good centers can just make,

like you said, it's a force multiplayer. That is so, so true for center play. And it's such an undervalued position in a way. Because, yeah, you're not going to take a first rounder on them. But finding a good center just makes everybody else life easier. When the quarterback doesn't have to make protection calls. when the guards don't have to worry about it, the tackle, everyone knows where they're going. Eyes are good.

Running back and listen to the call. You make every pass play better. You're not throwing the ball. But if you're competent and everyone knows protection wise and the quarterback's confident going like, yeah, Rodney's got it. I'm good. He's going to the will here. I'm good.

We're protected. I can hang in here in this pocket even though they're bringing some gas and I'm going to gash him for a touchdown. That's what having a good center and being confident what the center can do. And that's what Rodney Hudson could do for a team. I also think that he could just go home to Kansas City. It would make perfect sense if they could convince him to take a certain sort of deal. I mean, there's so many fits.

I don't want to get too far down that road because there's too many teams that we work out for. All right, before we get out of here, I want to do our favorite and least favorite moves over the last 24, 48 hours here. What is your favorite signing that you have seen so far in free agency? I'll go. Okay. Honorable mention. By the way, none of these are official yet. So I guess during the tampering period, what is your favorite period?

Rumored signing that you've seen so far. Rumored signing. Yeah, yeah. It's like clean embezzlement. Just an oxymoron. But I would say just, number one, I did like the Kevin Zitler signing with the Ravens. I just thought, hey, they went one year without Marshall Yonda. They're like, never again.

And I know Zightler's not that that's here, but they're like, no, we want competence. But actually the signing I really liked was Marcus Golden on the two-year, $9 million deal with the Cardinals. That's a great one. That's a really good one. I just think that is like the amazing deal. Fair Valley for a guy who's damn. productive. Yeah, he doesn't get the sack numbers he has, but always generating pressures. And now he's the singles and doubles hitter and he's getting on base. And then he has a nice

rotation with Chandler Jones and JJ Watt. Like, they could do some shit with that. And I just think that's a, that's a hell of a signing. I really, really like that. Missouri Tiger, Marcus Golden. How many D. Lyman are from Missouri though? They are run there where it's like, Kuigowski, man. He was a fantastic defensive line coach. Alden Smith was there. Jaquez Smith was there. Even Shane Ray. Even Shane Ray was a first round there. Yeah, Shane Ray was a first round pick.

They had a great little run there. So a big Marcus Golden guy. I think that's a really good one. Zeyler was on mine. Three years, 22 and a half million. If you're getting Kevin Zettler for half of what Joe Tooney signed for, that is the definition of We are good. Like that's exactly the type of move that you would want to make.

Plug and play guy. I loved that one. And I liked Matt Filer going to the Chargers on the same sort of deal. three years, 21 million. It's 18th is the sweet spot here. It's the 18th highest cap hit per year. It's 18th highest Aavie for guards. And that in free agency, if that's the range you're shopping in, I think that's okay.

It's right above that Mark Gowinski extension that he signed with the Colts, which that's an in-house signing. Lane Taylor was in that same range. So you're essentially signing that type of contract and paying a premium because it's a couple years later, and it's a free agent. You can live with those deals every single time for a reliable starter at a position of need. That's exactly what he was for the Chargers. Zaitler was on mine, and I love John Johnson. It's an expensive deal. 11 million is like, it's not a cheap deal. If that were $8 million a year, I think you could love it a little bit more. But I just think every single,

they love that he was a captain of the Rams at like 25 years old. I was going to say he's 25 to play caller. Even if you have questions about his traits and all the different things he can do and whether he's a guy that moves the needle in terms of his physical ability, I just think that having a guy you really like and knowing what sort of locker room presence he is and just how smart he is, all of that stuff, it just takes one of those layers of risk away. And that's exactly what he feels like to me.

I just think that he's going to be a foundational culture piece for their defense because they do need to rebuild on that side of the ball. All right, least favorite moves. Let's end on this note before we get out of here. What's your least favorite one you've seen? For most favorite, I actually thought you were going to say Jason Verrett for that one-year deal.

But the, it's, I mean, obviously that's great value, but like a one-year deal for a 30-year-old corner is a little bit tough. I would say least favorite, and we've kind of talked about all my least favorite already. He really,

number one is cutting Rodney Hudson. But I would say actually my least favorite move is the Lennar Floyd contract. It just did not make sense to me. I just think that's a weird overpay for maybe you have Aaron Donald. You have your ace in a hole. This is where you can find the other valley. I get they're kind of all in with how they're structured.

But it's, I don't know. I just think it was unnecessary where they could find maybe a player on the cheap that could probably do some of those very similar things. The other ones, I said just the Bengals of general. But, yeah, but I also say that. And the last one, if I were going, something we haven't talked about, I didn't really like the Roy Robertson Harris signing. I just thought it was strange by the Jaguars.

Everything the Jaguars are kind of doing is a little. We didn't talk about the Jaggs. We'll have an extended conversation about them relatively soon. Again, I want to go back and watch more of Jackiffer and Ray Sean Jenkins and those guys before I throw out a lot of opinions about defensive players from secondaries I haven't watched extensively. So that's going to be something for down the road. My, same kind of deal. The DePri signing, I think, is up there for me.

It's right there with the Leonard Floyd thing. You're going to have a hard time recouping value from that deal. Two of the other ones. And this is more about the types of deals that can hand it out in free agency. Nelson Aguilar and Ronald Darby were available for nothing last off season. Nothing. Aglore signed for $1 million to go play for the Raiders. He had a decent season.

And I don't know what the exact numbers are there. I think it's up to $13 million. We'll see what the incentives is, whatever. Even if it's $9 million, that is a ton of money for a guy who was available for nothing last year. The same goes for Darby, three years, $30 million after he was essentially signed for nothing by Washington. Those deals are typically misguided.

You think back to what Robert Quinn was for the Bears after he was available for absolutely nothing to go to Dallas. He has a good year, signs a monster contract, and then we're sitting here thinking, why would they give out that deal? Why? I just, those, those types of moves are typically treacherous in free agency. Look back not only at what happened the year before.

Look at the history of the player, what he's done, how repable is this, what were the circumstances, everything else. So I think those two are ones that I would keep an eye on because, again, I just think it's going to be hard to extract value out of both of those contracts. All right, buddy, anything else you want to hit before we get out of here? I think we covered it. All right. Well, happy Andy Dalton Day.

It's really great. The Bears' Super Bowl chances went down after signing Andy Dalton. They went from 40 to 1 to 50 to 1. This is your D day. The Bears can't hurt me anymore. Like if you think that I'm fine. This is not that bad of an outcome. It's not exciting.

But as long as this does not torpedo what they were going to be over the next couple years, I would much rather have my 2021. one first round pick and have Andy Dalton is the bear starting quarterback and for half the price of what they would have to pay to go get Carson Wentz because it's not going to work out anyway so I'd rather have them not spend a lot for it to crash and burn. That's where I'm at right now. It's a really good outlook to have on life. I'm a very hopeful person. I love it. I love it. I'm a Mariners and Timberwolves fan, man. I know it. Just just bide my time until this is over. All right. Guys, thank you very much. Please go rate and review the podcast on your

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