The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Free agency day one, part two: The edge and DB markets fall into place

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

NFL teams know a thing or two about tampering, and they proved that to us once again with the league's legal tampering window opening up on Monday. On part one of two of The Athletic Football Show's Free Agency Day One Bonanza, Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman welcome to the show a bunch of friends and break down a bunch of signings, including Odafe Oweh to the Commanders, John Franklin-Myers to the Titans, and Boye Mafe and Bryan Cook to the Bengals and Tua Tagovailoa to the FalconsConnect with The Athletic Football ShowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowPodcasts: https://podfollow.com/the-athletic-football-show/viewX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowBuy our merch! http://theathletic.lnk.to/tafsmerchCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Hosts: Derrik Klassen and Dave HelmanExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Part two of our day one free agency stream, hitting your guys podcast feed, the audio version of the four hour and 45 minute show that we recorded yesterday. If you have listened to part one, you've obviously heard my spiel already, but a fantastic day one of free agency. One of my favorite days in the NFL calendar. We had stuff coming in all day. You know, we start with the Alec Pearson News going back to Indianapolis. We have stuff with the Tyler Linderbaum contract, the GA1 Phillips signing,

and here to help us sort through all of it, we had 15 total guests or 16 total guests on our free agency live stream today with me, Dave, and Derek had such a blast. So what you're about to listen to is part two of that live stream. I don't know when it's going to start. Don't ask me which signing will be first, but you're listening to the second half of the four and a half hour stream that we did. Hope you guys enjoy it.

I know we had a blast recording it. Let's get to it right now. We've come to a little. Thankfully, it was when we lost all of our guests. I was going to say it feels so empty. It was sit with everybody logging off at the same time. So nothing new has come across here. For the most part, we're just sitting with everything that we've been talking about already. This is a great opportunity then.

Allow me to just be the worst version of myself. We should mention John Harbaugh got his guy, Jordan Stout. I'm going to go to the bathroom. Hunter Deal. Come on. All pro last year. No, it's very, it's very funny. We say that all the time.

Like coaches identify their guys and art culture and the way we want to do things. And of course, the special team's head coach went out and got his punter for a three-year $12 million deal. Okay, let's fire up that Jets graphic. Talking about teams that have been a little bit active today at the other New York team. We just did it. We just did it. Nick Fulk. I have nothing to end.

Nick Falk also signed a deal to go to be with the Atlanta Falcons. Here's what I'm going to do. You know what? Take the graphic off. We'll talk about the graphic later. I'm going to give you. No, I have nothing else to say. I'm going to give you 90 seconds before we have Sando on here to talk about Brandon

Aubrey did in the second round tender because we didn't do it on yesterday's show. And the fact that you didn't bring it up on yesterday's show was shocking to me. You know what's funny? All right. I'll actually, I'll zig or I'll zag where you might expect me to zig. And of course, there's two sides to this. There's subterfuge and misinformation abounds. But if it's true that the Cowboys offered to put Brandon Aubrey on top of the market by like $200,000 or whatever it is, so like mid $7 million per year, if it's true that Aubrey's after 10, then please somebody come take him and give me the second round pick.

Like I'm not trying to pay a kicker $10 million a year. And I would be happy to pay Brandon Aubrey at the top of the market. Like if the Cowboys really made an offer, and again, you can't take any of this stuff at face value. I think Aubrey said himself that the report that he wanted $10 million was false. But that's the report. Make him the highest pay kicker in the league. But like if he really wants $10 million or if he's even, if he's trying to Linderbom this thing and be like, yeah, I know that Butker makes $7. whatever, or six and a half, but I want nine, whatever, fine, Rams, come get them and we'll take

the second round pick. So what you're saying to me is that kickers don't matter. They do matter, but they're all the same. There's a line. There is a line and also the unpredictability of the position makes me very reluctant to invest that heavily in a kicker. I mean, you have guys that can do it at a high level for a decade, but they're very, very much the exception.

And on top of that, I know you'll love this, nerd that you are. Brandon Aubrey actually makes you more conservative. Yes. So like I'm fine. Let it all of a kicker who makes my coach want to kick it on fourth and three from the plus 38. Like I'm fine with my coach is like, I don't know if our kicker's going to make this. Maybe we should go for it. I want us to clip all this because I want to use against me.

I want everyone to know that Dave is against paying kickers. The kickers are all the same. and the last point that he just made is a very important one. Having a good kicker is actually bad for your football. I am against being held financial hostage by a kicker, which I don't know for sure. We all have limits. We all have our limits.

All right. Joining us now, thrilled to have him as part of our big day on the athletic football show. It is the athletic zone. Mike Sando. Mike, how are you doing, man? Great. How are you?

Love the kicker. Doing wonderful. Thank you for joining us. A bit of news as we get back rolling here. with our guests. According to Adam Schaefter, Zion Johnson, three years, $49.5 million from the Cleveland Browns. So, depending on where Titus Howard plays,

which I think is probably still up for conversation, considering the Browns need four to five offensive line starters, we have 40% of the new offensive line for the Cleveland Browns with Zion Johnson and Titus Howard both in the fold. Mike, you spend all day, every day talking to people in Indianapolis at the Combine, which happened a week and a half ago. I'm sure you had discussions about what the interior offensive line market might.

How does the Zion Johnson contract align with what you might have expected at these positions? You know, it's funny, Robert, is I didn't talk to anyone about the Interior Guard market or most of these markets, working on lots of other types of projects. So where's Zion? That's what I would be talking to everybody about. Here's what's interesting, though, to me is just the one thing I do, one thing I do do coming out of the combine is I'll have some front office people just stack the top 10 in the draft.

And what's funny is I love to do the snapshot after the combine, but all these projections change based on free agency. So we've seen Cleveland basically make two big moves, at least two, right, two on the offensive line. So most of these teams are just setting themselves up to not have to take, you know, to reach maybe for an offensive line at wherever that, five or six in the draft. So that's how I see it. I think the money part of this always takes time to,

uh, takes time to process because the cap has gone up so much that the idea of a 30 million dollar wide receiver or cornerback still, it takes, there's a lag time before it feels right. And so I think with, we're seeing the Linderbombeam deal with the Raiders. I just almost need time to,

uh, to process it and, and think it through. you know, before even making sense of it. And that's one of the main reasons I do my free agency analysis sort of after the dust settles. To me, it's hard now to piece together even what these teams are doing because it's all part of the next plan.

What's that? I said, you're telling me. I'm sitting here over the next five hours trying to do it. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I do. So what did Zion Johnson get again? It was about it. So it's three years, 49 and a half million.

It's like 16 a year. 16 a year. And the only, I think the interesting comparison point is that we just saw David Edwards get 15 a year for four years. David Edwards is 28. Zion Johnson's hitting a second contract. And so I think the interesting kind of thought there and the commentary for trying to read between the lines is that the Browns are looking at Zion. And I think this was always going to be the conversation about Zion Johnson's specific heading into this sort of market. You have first round pedigree and you have some flashes in the back half of last year where you really saw. awesome things from him that you had never really seen before. The talent is undeniable based on pedigree and just some of the flashes. And then he really started to kind of gain some consistency in the back half of the last season. And so was there going to be a team that looked at that and said, you know what?

There are so few second-cocked guys available in free agency, we're going to bet on the fact that his best football is in front of him and we're going to overpay a little bit compared to a David Edwards who was 28 years old. And it seems like that's exactly what happened with Ion Johnson. And when you're so bad, I think when it's such a, when it's such a, a bad problem for you, you know, the idea of overpaying is a relative thing, right? You're really raising the floor from what you had, even if Zion Johnson doesn't reach his peak, right? Even if he just is solid from where they've been, you'd take that for $16 million a year. I think that's where

a lot of these teams are at when they're just trying to get to, they're just trying to even get to average, right? It's not like this is, he doesn't have to be great to be a big improvement for them. The Browns are another one of those teams. We mentioned this with the Saints a little bit earlier today where I think it's important to kind of reframe their financial outlook because with the Browns, we've had so many conversations over the last couple of years about how much the Deshawn Watson contract is hamstringing them and how much they're up against it because of that. I think I've said this a lot. I was thinking about this last week for some random reason, just looking at the Brown's outlook. The missing draft picks are more important than the cap. Like when it comes to

the Deshawn Watson trade, like they're going to be able to survive the cap elements of this. They have $100 million in 2027 cap space the Browns do. Sure. So it's not all that dissimilar to what we were just saying about the Saints, where in our minds, they're this cash strap team. Do they really have the flexibility to be spent spending in free agency? But if you look at the multi-year outlook of this, the answer for both the Browns and the Saints is yes.

Their biggest challenge is finding good players. Exactly. And so, yeah, yeah, the future is totally different than the last couple years have been for them. And I think the Saints are in that category, too, as long as they don't. you know, do any more crazy things. I don't think anybody wants to hear this with the Browns in particular because it's, we've done it so many times. Like going back to like the Miles Garrett Baker Mayfield drafts

where you're talking yourself into the two-year outlook over what it is right now. But it like there's especially, so I really like this and we'll see how well they actually play. But to like have Titus Howard and Zion Johnson there within three hours of free agency starting. And so you've already taken care of a good bit that you have to do on the offensive line right away. It's trending toward you having a functioning offensive line, which we sat there for a while and had a lot of concern about how do you replenish the amount of guys you're losing on that front. Last year's draft class was phenomenal. You have two first round picks in this year's draft. It's such a big if, if you do it right, but like there's

reason for optimism here if you can hit on self draft picks. I assume you're not going to do anything crazy at quarterback this year. That would be my guess. And so it obviously puts a lot of pressure to solve that problem in 2027. But I like this as sort of a resetting and you can start to see the framework for a competent team instead of what the Browns have been the last couple years. My question for the Browns is just like who's coaching them in two years? You know, what's their real plan? They're always doing, that's no disrespect to Todd Munkin.

I mean, but he's giddy to get this job because he didn't think he probably was going. to. But with the Browns, it always feels like they're scheming on, you know, a bunch of different things and you're not always sure where they're headed. So this feels a little bit this offseason like some of these other teams that have had, you know, almost placeholder type coaches, right? We had Rod Mayo in there. If you can go back in time and find these one-year guys, you know, in between. And so we'll see where they're at even in two years from now. They always feel fluid to me. Can I lay out the optimistic case for what this could feel like

and a situation that I feel like is kind of, you can make a solid comparison if you're trying to have the rosy outlook here? I think on multiple different levels. In 2023, the Denver Broncos, hire Sean Payton to be their head coach. Not totally similar, but you have an older, offensive-minded play calling head coach, so box-checked, same kind of deal.

You retain the general manager despite a disastrous, embarrassing previous season, which is what the Broncos had with Nate Hackett, but they kept George Payton on. The Broncos, that free agency period. And Titus Howard's a little bit older than this player, but they signed Mike McGlunchy, who was an older second contract player to right tackle.

They signed Ben Powers to be their left guard. And in the moment, it was kind of like, I don't really get what the Broncos are, right? Like, they're a team that's very far away. They're eating all this dead money with the Russell Wilson contract. Like, how is this all supposed to fit together? and them building that offensive line in the way that they did

was ultimately like one of the foundational pieces for how they started to pull themselves out of that over the next couple years. And so that to me, if you're trying to spin this like, how could this go correctly for the Browns? There's a lot of similarities to what the 20, 23 offseason looks like for the Broncos.

Yeah. I mean, I think Peyton's a totally different, you know, animal probably than Monk and in terms of just coming in with new ownership there and showing them how to run a pro organization. So to me, that's a little bit of a difference, but I do see. He also has more power. Payton was in charge there in a way the Monkin is not going to be. Like, Andrew Barry still has more say in that building that I think George Peyton probably did

and how that roster was being built after they traded for Sean Peyton. Yeah, a little bit of a different dynamic with the head coach's just personality and gravitas, so to speak. But just putting the team to get in the situation and coming out of a dire situation a quarterback. And certainly, I mean, the Hackett situation was, you know, was worse from a coaching standpoint than the Safansky ones. So, yeah.

Nate Hackett didn't get a new head coaching job two days after he was fired from his previous one, like Kevin Safansky did, is what you're trying to say? Yeah, I think that a little slight difference there, slight difference there. Russell Wilson had a better future than Sean Watson probably does, though. That's also a good thing to bring up. Let's send chat a little bit, Mike. what sort of stuff when you were talking to people at the combine was coming up consistently

that was interesting to you. It was like you've started your off-season thoughts. I know some of the stuff is our projects that you work on a little bit later, but I'm also interested in like what that week looks and sounds like to you and what you can say and can't. Absolutely. Yeah. So a lot of times I'll go there with two or three projects I'm working on and I may end up

doing a piece on it in a year. You know, an example of that was maybe last year we did the beyond the McVeigh effect, kind of looking at the way the coaching. ages have evolved and all the tentacles to it. So I'll get a ton of learning out of that. But just for a little bit shorter term, one of the things that I was talking to some folks about was it just seemed like the Rams were really just couldn't stop.

They couldn't put the season to bad. I mean, I think they knew they were going to win the Super Bowl, you know, if they could have played the Patriots. And so there were some predictions that, you know, the Rams could come out, could be a little desperate this off season, right? Like they just kept talking about the two-point play. It just lingered for them.

It was killing them to watch Seattle win that Super Bowl. So would they be, you know, overreact or react off of that? But I would extend that to say, I think these teams, if you look at the teams that felt like they should have won at all, you know, whether that's Baltimore, Buffalo, or the Rams. These are teams that have gotten close. I mean, they've all been in the middle of like high top of the. market or unusual moves in trading two number ones that the Baltimore. I think that's the most fascinating part of this off season so far. It's just everyone knew that this was a great year to win the Super Bowl with

Patrick Mahomes sideline and the chiefs not being the same. And when you don't make it, like there's implications. McDermott gets fired and they're going to make, you know, make some bigger moves in the offseason. So I think that's the interesting part of it to me. I love that because I think that when I see stuff like this and Baltimore making the trade they did for Max Crosby feels like one of the more important signals when it comes to this. And we discussed it yesterday where it feels like the sort of move that the Ravens just don't really make. And so you kind of take a step back and it's like, okay, so why would they be willing to do something like this?

Is this a scenario where people aren't really valuing draft capital in the same way or other trends that maybe we're not picking up on? But sometimes it's just that you have a level of urgency that you didn't have previously because of what the league looks like and what your season looked like. And maybe that's just it. Maybe teams thought, you know what? We're not content to just sit back here and watch this happen anymore because if it didn't happen last year, it wasn't going to happen. We've got to turbo charge this a little bit. And you saw multiple teams have tried to do that.

Yeah, I kind of like it. I mean, it may or may not work. But I think that, you know, there is, we've seen, I wrote about this coming out of the Super Bowl. I think the last couple Super Bowls have been won by GM-driven teams. Howie Roseman and John Snyder making uncomfortable moves and big moves, not just writing it out, not right, not just, hey, let's bring back the same team. And one of the interesting things about Max Crosby is the last offseason, I believe it's been reported.

I've certainly heard it that, you know, the Ciyocs were trying to get Max Crosby a year ago, Mike McDonald. And obviously they got DeMarcus Lawrence and they, you know, they've got a really good D-Line themselves. and this year they're not going to go for a Max Crosby after winning the Super Bowl, but who is Jesse Minter? Who's Mike McDonald 2.0, hopefully for the Ravens. If you look back at the last 10 years of NFL football,

I think you could make a very serious argument, and there are numbers that back this up, and if they're not the top three, they're in the top five. You look at teams that were driven by hometown talent over the last decade and teams that do not typically spend in free agency. I think the three teams at the top of that would probably be in some order the Ravens, the Steelers, and the Packers

right? Those are the three teams that operate that way and they're all out here doing... Are the Cowboys that like that? The Cowboys are probably in the top five as well. I would throw the Cowboys in there. And so now we're at a place where three of those teams are the three teams that made the most aggressive

player moves in the last two off-season combined and let's throw Dallas in there. They tried to do it this year. The Cowboys are, were the team that was trying to do it. And so if these teams are going to be out here doing wild shit, what does that say about the league in general?

Yeah, no, I agree. I think that, you know, I think those teams, the draft and develop thing isn't enough, you know, it's good, but it's not enough. It's part of it. It used to be everything in building your team. And it's still a big part of your team, but you've got to use all of the other ways

because that's what the top teams are doing, right? That's to get over the top and win it. I mean, those are all high floor teams. They usually don't have a losing season or much below unless their quarterback gets hurt. So, but have they gotten over the top, right? So I love it when teams are at least trying. Mike sincerely appreciate you joining us. Always appreciate the time.

We'll talk to you very soon. Thank you. Appreciate it. This is good timing. We have our next big signing as our next guest comes on here. Somebody I think you know. Oh, hey, Carl. Now it is Carmen Vitale.

Carmen, how are you doing? I'm so great. How are you guys? I assume you're about to talk about John Franklin Myers. We certainly are. See, I'm, Karm, I'm having a blast, just letting Mays tell me what's going on.

So I didn't know who it was. Yeah, you're right. I broke that. I'm sorry. Where did he go? Where did you go? Tennessee. Okay.

Three years, $63 million for John Franklin Myers. Oh, yeah. I think I called him a finishing piece last week, and that was not respectful. enough to what he was worth, clearly. So what I like about this, Carmen, is that sometimes we have this in free agency where you

look at certain positions on the board before we even get started. And especially with Connor McGovern signing with the bills, we were in a spot where it was Tyler Linderbaum and then you get down to like maybe Cade Mays. On the interior defensive line, same sort of conversation. We had

John Franklin Myers and nobody. And so when that's the scenario and you're just looking at the chess board of certain positions, those are often the guys that they can get the market just blows everybody away. The teams with the money are the ones that end up with those guys. It's exactly what happens with Tyler Linderbaum. And it's exactly what happens with John Franklin Myers where the Titans come in and can just offer what no one else is willing to offer.

Yeah, it's a really good comp just because of the fact that, yeah, they had money to spend. And we've seen that happen now in free agency with the teams that had the most cap space and have also the most to go when it comes to refurb. vamping their team and having to build out. But I really like a signing like John Franklin Myers or Lee. I'm obviously like Tolly Lindelbaum though because these are foundational pieces. And these are guys that you can build around.

So you're going to invest this money now and still have money to spend. You're going to be able to do it around a guy that, I mean, Denver absolutely loved him. I mean, I have to imagine this one hurts Denver quite a bit and knowing that this was coming. But still, like, I just, there was no way to keep all those guys together. and they prioritize what they prioritize along the defensive line. But John Fugge Myers is an instant. Yeah, he's a team builder, I guess, is the way I want to put that. So it's funny because whatever it was, an hour and a half ago,

the Titans signed Wondell Robinson, which, you know, he's got familiarity with Daibol. I get it. I don't love that so much relative to your other options and the price that it cost you. But considering, again, what you just said, scarcity and what your options are, if you don't bring this in, considering the resources the Titans have to work with, and also throwing Wondell Robinson

into a pass catcher group that needs a lot of work with, without him, doesn't do a lot for me. John Franklin Myers on this Tennessee front, I'm all of a sudden, I'm pretty, Jeffrey Simmons is the man. They traded for Jermaine Johnson.

I don't think this would stop them from adding a pass rusher with a really big draft pick. Like, cooking with some gas here. I'm into this. What I really appreciate is Robert Sala doing everything in his power to rebuild the 2023 New York Jets defense. There we go.

That's a pretty thing you're just trying to do. He's just like, you know, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me. I'm just going to see if I can retap into some of that magic, even though it's three years later. Meanwhile, the Jets are also still trying to rebuild that Jets defense with what they've done so far today. I do love that. Sala's like, all right, let me go retool in Green Bay and San Francisco.

Francisco for a minute. JFM, you know, across time, I'll reach back out to you. And here we are. I was looking at it. The points per game numbers for the 2020, New York Jets were not that great on defense. They were third in defensive DVOA. And so that was the glory time of the Jets being really good defensively and not being able to move the ball. Do you remember what year did you say?

I'm sorry. 2023. 2022 was the year where like they lost like eight games where they held their opponent to like 19 points or something like that. You know why? Because that was the year where they averaged 17 and a half points and gave up 18 and a half. Like if they'd scored 20 points a game that year, they would have won like 10 or 11 games. Yes, ridiculous. So, yeah, I mean, there are worse plans than trying to rebuild the 2023 New York Jets defense.

I just wonder how good that looks with everybody being three years older. I mean, that's fair. And Jeffrey Simmons isn't exactly young by NFL standards. But, man, we saw. That's so fun. I mean, not to compare everything to the conference championship team. but you see what having badass D-tackles can do for you. All right, lay it on me, Mays.

Mays is freaking out over here. What's that? What happened? I love when there's a guy we're all excited about where every single like, I'm sorry for the people listening and that broke your e-jums. I was very excited. When there's a guy where it's like,

I really like this guy and I think that he's going to, the good value I'd want him, Charlie Kohler going to the Los Angeles Chargers. Oh. Three years, $24 million for Charlie Kohler. I told you, I told you Charlie Kohler could get a surprisingly big bag. I love that for him. Doesn't that feel like last year they tried Will Disley and it didn't work out as well as they wanted to?

Okay, Charlie Kohler has a little bit more giddy up. That's what I'm saying. They're like, all right, let's, that's kind of where I'm at here. Let's not mess about. Let's do this for real this time. I love this. Because this feels to me like, again, Charlie Kohler doesn't have the same. quite this level of like past catching pop ideally,

but it reminds me a little bit of like a slight downgrade from like the Colby Parkinson contract that he got a couple years ago from the Rams. Like you're a third tight end on your previous team, but we're betting on what you can be in a slightly elevated role. And so I like this a lot. I think this actually makes a lot of sense for where the chargers are and what the chargers need.

You pair him with Gadsden and like just their skill sets combined. Like I'm excited about this. I wanted Charlie Kohler to land in a good spot. I would say this counts. Is this like usmosis in Los Angeles of like the tight end just usage in general? And this emphasis on two and three tight end packages now just kind of moving over a few miles of Los Angeles County from the Rams and trying to do that now with In Johrabah. This could work really well. This could be great.

The only difference is we have a fullback in the other team unless we did not have the Rams, right? So Alec Ingle. So now there. Yeah. So now we have a 21 and 12 personnel world with Alex Engel, Charlie Kohler, Ronne Gadsden, plus Mike McDaniel. I'm already in on the show. I hate myself.

A capable center in Tyler Biotis? Yeah. No, I'm pretty in on this. I feel like thereafter you're hard, Karm. That's your style of football. It is. I mean,

it's also what I grew up with when you're talking about big 10 football. And it's like just a smash mouth run game and big tight ends and pullbacks and 22 personnel all the time. I'm F receivers that we don't need to actually pass the ball or have a spread offense. Yeah, no, I love it. And I just, I now I have like, talk about, I think you were talking about Charlie Day earlier.

I'm going to just do it again. I just have a picture of Mike McDaniel. I know, I just, the Mike McDaniel, you know, him, like in front of the thing with the map and like the people mind. Yeah, three. It's music theories. It's Mike McDaniel and it's just him with all of these guys now and all of these pieces in LA.

This is his Pepe-Sovia moment. Mike McDaniel is trying to tie the whole run game together. Carm, before we lose you and if there's nothing else coming down the type. Oh, we got a couple things. Oh, do we? A couple things. All right. Well, let's keep it current that I was going to ask Carm.

No, actually, Carm, walk me through the emotions of Mike Evans no longer Tampa Bay Buccaneer. Explain a little bit of your background as to why this would matter to you. Right. So I spent six years with the beckneers and all of that time with Mike. And Mike was my dude and still is my dude. and still is my dude. But this was, I was, like, shocked because as much as I had seen the reports of, like, oh, he might leave, oh, he might leave.

Like, no one actually thought he was leaving. That includes people in the building, by the way. Like, the bucks were ready to do whatever Mike wanted. Like, they were, it was not a matter of money. And it never, I mean, it never is a matter of money when it comes to Mike Evans. It's solely about what he feels is right. And it's solely about what he feels is the right situation for him and his family. What shocked me the most was that,

This wasn't like the Texans where he has, you know, he's from Galveston. He has a house there. Like it's a completely foreign environment to him. California has crazy taxes, but again, it's not about the money. I think this really was about just a change of pace, a change of scenery, and being on a team that he maybe felt was in a little better position, though they will be potentially in the toughest division in football. When you're talking about the NFC West, I'm shocked.

Talking to people in the building, I mean, I am devastated as a fan now. But everybody, there are people in the building are also devastated. Like, Bucks fans, if you can take solace and anything, just know that like everybody in the building is all so sad with you because they tried. And it was just, it had nothing to do with what the Bucks were offering, weren't offering anything like that from everybody I talked to. It was just Mike wanted to leave.

It's a new opportunity in a very good situation offensively. And again, he fits exactly what they need out there. two quick signings that just happened, one guy leaving the New York Giants, one guy going to the New York Giants, Cordell Flott, cornerback Cordell Flott, signing a three-year,

$45 million deal with the Tennessee Titans for $32 million guaranteed. Titans, just keep doing this. I don't know. Look, I'm firmly in the Titans corner, mainly because of Cam Ward, but this is, I don't know, they've done a couple of deals

where guys would go on my list of, this is a little bit scary, I'm a little bit nervous about the price. Cordell Flah had a really nice season last year. He's still a young player. An emergency season, I would say, for Cordof on the last year. It's a gamble worth taking,

and at the end of the day, it's, that's not like an astronomical price tag, but I do think you need more for him at that, more from him at that price. The comparison that I would make at that price is it kind of reminds me a little bit of the deal that Pulsmanadebo actually signed with the Giants last year. That was for $18 million a year, but I think that's the comp I would make in terms of like

the archetype of player that you're talking about here. So the Titans signed Cordell Flot to a $15 million a year deal, joining the New York Giants as Cordell Flot moves on, quarantine and Rappaport. Tremaine Edmins, three years, $36 million with $24 million guaranteed going to the New York Giants after being released by the Bears. you knew John Harbaugh was going to go get a linebacker. I mean, that's not a surprise. A rangey linebacker, a long, like, rangy linebacker.

Yeah, okay. I'm on, I mean, Carmen, you cover the bears a lot now. Robert, obviously, your credentials need not be questioned. Like, how do you feel about Tremaine Edmins in this act of his career? And, like, what, like, where he is going to the Giants at this point? Tremaine Evans is a fine player. I think it was just a matter of how much money. are you saving?

The Bears, I think, saved $16 to $18 million a year moving on from him. I mean, he was just getting paid a ton of money based on that last contract that he signed. And so it was more about, it's the same thing. The Tremade Edmins thing and the DJ Moore thing to me are somewhat similar. They're not totally analogous because you still needed another linebacker after moving out for Tremant's where at the past catcher spots, you're probably set without DJ Moore. But the Tremade Edmonds contract with the Bears is not that he's a bad player. It's about opportunity cost.

It's like you can't pay him $20 million against the cap when you have all of these other needs. And so that's why I thought it was necessary to move on. What I am interested in with the fit here is that one of the first things that the Titans did at linebacker and Dernard Wilson's first year there is they traded for Ernest Jones. And so getting like a bigger, ranger, longer linebacker in the middle of that defense is truly one of the first things they did with Dernard Wilson and Tennessee. And so this being the first thing the Giants defense is doing with Bernard Wilson as their defensive coordinator is not surprising to me. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And I mean, when you have a guy like Jermaine who's also really smart too, right? Like he's kind of captaining the middle of that defense. And I'm with you, though, when it comes to letting him go from the bears, you had not necessarily redundancy because like Robert said, you're going to have to bring in linebackers, and they already did that now with Devin Bush. but it was how much is what he's giving us worth what we're paying him, the opportunity cost of all of this.

And I think when you saw at various times throughout this year, when T.J. Edwards was out, J. Edmonds was, they had death at that position. And they also had a defense that under Dennis Allen is just so what he wants to be man heavy. And there's just so many moving parts and so many different moving pieces that I think you could afford. to, like you didn't have to pay someone that much money and you didn't have to build around someone like Tremaine Edlins

in this tennis Alley. What are you laughing at? The dam has broken with the defensive back contracts. Okay. The Tennessee Titans are not done. Jeez. Three years. $1.20 million for Alante Taylor.

Lentay Taylor. So Cordell Flott and Alante Taylor on the back half of the Titans defense. Get every level. get every level. Man, Titans wielding that rookie quarterback contract for all of it it's worth. I mean, we joked about it last week. Like, for all of the money they've spent

and for all the deals that haven't really worked out that well, they're still in a position to spend. And, yeah, make the most of your quarterback not costing that much money and make the most of a lot of those deals not biting you as bad. They're surprisingly not hampered for the amount of bad decisions that they've,

made over the last couple of years. So you might as well. I really love the JFM signing. Alante Taylor is a good, I mean, Cordell Flott's a good player too. But yeah, it's just, it's funny to see that, I mean, what?

So Wondell got 70. I don't think we mentioned Daniel Bellinger. He got 24 million. We did not mention Daniel Bellinger. 63 million for Jonathan Franklin Myers, 45 for Cordell Flott. And then how much, 60 for Alante Taylor? 20 million dollars a year for Alante Taylor.

So they've spent north of $200 million. I mean, not all of that is, guaranteed, obviously, but they have spent a lot of money today. I'll be curious what happens with Alante Taylor in terms of where he's playing. So obviously, last year, he was primarily a slot corner in 2024, where he played about two-thirds of his snaps on the outside. You're paying him $20 million a year. That says to me he's going to be playing on the outside for you.

And so, I mean, they had needs. I mean, outside corner has been a tough situation for the Titans over the last couple of years. They make the Legerious need trade. Obviously, that does not work out. So now you have two new outside corners. You have multiple new defensive linemen. and you have Wondell Robinson. Titans are not holding back here

in terms of how they're throwing some of this money around. And we have a couple more. Where they want their identity to be. Last defensive back deal to hit before we get to Trevor Sycambe here. The Bengals are finally on the board. We're wondering when this might happen. Three years, $40 million per Ian Rappaport.

Brian Cook heading to Cincinnati. You said three years 40? Three years, $40 million. That's the same deal that. Kobe got, right? Yeah. So that just seems to be, you know, that's the going rate

for starting safety's this go around. What I like about this, and this is not surprising to me at all, when you watch the back seven of the Bengals defense tackle last year, bringing in Brian Cook, it makes a ton of sense. I think that's exactly where they want to be

considering how bad they were on the back end last season as they tried to tackle anybody. Okay. Karm, thank you very much for the time. Great to see you. I'll see you again very soon. We'll talk to you later.

Bye, guys. Bye, Karm. All right, before we keep rolling here, let's take our first quick break. Joining us now from PFF and the NFL Stock Exchange, I guess a podcast, but more YouTube show, right? I mean, you guys are crushing it on the YouTube at this point, right? Like, just a multimedia extravaganza

is the NFL Stock Exchange podcast with Trevor Sykima and Connor Rogers. Good to see you, man. How you doing? I'm doing great, guys. First of all, I love this. this whole setup. This is awesome. Just like popping in and like listening to you guys show when I can throughout the day. I mean like I love this stuff. It's super cool, really cool to be a part of it. Appreciate you let me be a part of it. But I love what you guys are doing today.

This has been awesome to watch. Appreciate you, bud. I want to talk to you about just your emotional journey as you've gone through today. Mike Evans leaving. Alex Anzolone, Kenny Gainwell, talking me through how you're feeling about. I didn't realize we had two Buck Central guests in a row. I was going to say, we got Tampa like cornered right here. Talk me through your journey here with the Bucks over the last three or four hours. I was in the little waiting room and you guys had asked Carmen about that quite. You asked her about Mike Evans. I was like, all right, that's it for me.

And I just, you know, I just getting up from the seat. No, I'm kidding. The Mike Evan situation is very interesting because I do agree a lot with what Carmen said where a lot of people probably thought that he was just never going to leave. And I always felt like the Buc's offer was going to be competitive. I felt as though he was going to be able to get more money out. elsewhere outside of Tampa, but it always felt like it was going to be competitive. And then, to be honest, like, as the day went on and as like the days were leading up,

I actually felt more confident that he was going to remain with the Buccaneers because it felt like they were getting, like Peter Schroger said himself, he used the word desperate to bring Mike Evans back. And I was like, okay, well, then they're going to be pretty close compensation-wise. And then he ends up going to the San Francisco 49ers. And to me, as I was sort of thinking about this over the last couple of days as well, and even when you read and sort of Mike's and his agent kind of like putting out that farewell via like chapter

and some of the other insiders, I think that especially for the amount of money that he signed for, unfortunately for Buck's fans, that speaks very loudly about Todd Bowles and Baker Mayfield. Because to me, this speaks of an opportunity where, yeah, sure, you could say to yourself like, oh, you know, he says that he wants a new challenge after 12 years in Tampa Bay.

It's true, but like, Mike has always been an extreeliorate. extremely loyal person, loyal to the organization, loyal to the city, loyal to the fans, all that kinds of stuff. And I'm not saying that what he did today means that he's not loyal. It's not what I'm saying at all whatsoever. What I'm saying is that I don't think he believes in where the bucks are going. And if he did, he would have re-signed with Tampa because the money that he re-signed for was very affordable.

So I think it's more of a Todd Bulls thing than a Baker-Mayfield thing. But Baker was one of the most inaccurate quarterbacks in the NFL in the second half. of the season. We have a stat at PFF, uncatchable, inaccurate pass percentage. And over the last 10 weeks of the season, Baker Mayfield was number one in the NFL in uncatchable, inaccurate passes that he threw. I think

that Mayfield, as well as the lack of faith that Todd Bowles is the right man for the job, led to Evan signing elsewhere and in San Francisco. It's interesting to me. This is something that kind of crept up as I talked to people at the combine, and I think it's worth paying attention to. Beyond the quarterback,

when you think about just the shifting, quality of the offensive infrastructure with the bucks over the last few years where you know, and this is I'm getting here. You move on from Liam Cohen who obviously has been one of the best play callers, offensive architects in the league over the last two seasons. You go to the Jonathan Grizard

to step down. But in talking to people in Indy, I was surprised if I pull like 10 people that I talked to about offensive coaches in the NFL, I had more people pump up Jonathan Grasard to me than Zach Robinson.

I think that right now, like the Q score among some people in the NFL is higher for Garzard than it actually is for Zach Robinson who is supposed to be replacing Grisard in Tampa. Josh Grasard. Josh Grasard, excuse me. So it's that's interesting to me, right? And so I think even beyond the quarterback, I think my point here is that Mike Evans's lack of faith in the overall like stability of what the offensive infrastructure has been in Tampa over the last couple years, there's no more stable place you can go than to go play

for Kyle Shanahan. There's no more ambiguity about it. It's just like I'm going to a place where I know what the offense is going to be every year because that guy is here. 100%. And I do think that Evans' biggest career goal at this point is he wants to win another Super Bowl.

Like I don't think he's lying in that regard. However, I think that there is a major underlying factor that Evans, who has hurt this past season, it was the first year that he didn't get 1,000 yards in a season. I think he wants to go to a place, be fully healthy, get the thousand yards again, and then certainly for his Hall of Fame case and for his legacy, I think it's already wrapped up.

But for that case and that legacy, if he goes to San Francisco now or wherever he was going to go, he needs to be able to, after what happened this past season, say, look, every year I was healthy in the league, over a decade of play, every year that I was fully healthy, I got over a thousand yards. and being able to say that in a Hall of Fame and Legacy case,

I think means a lot, not just to him personally, but also just to his case overall for wanting to get to can. So when you look at the San Francisco 49er setup, they're going to move on from Brandon IEuk. Do you want James is a free agent. Obviously, they don't have Debo Samuel anymore because they dealt him previously. But Mike's number one, George Kittle, is going to miss most of the year. Like Mike is very clearly, without question, number one in that offense

and he's going to be working for, like you mentioned, an offensive mind where it doesn't get more stable. When you're a number one option in a Kyle Shanahan offense, you eat, plain and simple. Like, that's it. So I also think that this landing spot specifically meant a lot to Evans because he's truly trying to cement his legacy to make sure that there is no shadow of doubt

that he's going to be a Hall of Fame or whenever he's done. Again, I think that his case is probably solidified as well, but it's not dissimilar to Devante Adams looking at last year and being like, I'm going to L.A. I'm getting me like a supercharged setup. Let me have another. monster year and just leave no doubt here. Was I calling Josh Grizard, Jonathan Grizard, by the way?

You were. My brain is melting. Jonathan is right, yeah, who is still a Viking as of right now. Trevor, I would be remiss if I didn't have a version of this conversation with you before you got out of here. As you've looked at all the signings that have happened today, I'm sure in your mind, you're always tying it back to what does this mean for the draft? What does this mean for the draft?

What does this mean for the draft? So when you think about the dominoes that have fallen over the last, I'm looking at the counter right now, three hours and 40 minutes and how they affect what the first round of the draft might look like. What are the biggest things to have fallen in your mind? Yeah, I think the running back room, I think is something that's certainly worth monitoring because when we were leaving Indianapolis, you couldn't hear enough people like sing Jeremiah loves praises. And there were people who were like, oh, his range starts at number three overall, like with the Arizona Cardinals. And with the Cardinals, you know, resigning James Connor and

being in the running back market again today, like I don't think that. that's happening with them getting Tyler Archer, like they still have Trey Benson, but now it feels like he's kind of on the out, but it doesn't feel like they're a Jeremiah Love destination. I kind of feel that way about the Saints as well. You feel that way about the Kansas City Chiefs. And like those were the three most likely spots

where I felt like there were landing spots for Jeremiah Love in the top 10. So all of a sudden, like yeah, he could potentially go to the Washington commanders, but does he? You know, because if he doesn't go number seven, now all of a sudden you go, well, okay, Jeremiah Love, might be available to be had outside of the top 10 for the first time in like two months.

Like that was not something that people were thinking about that was possible with him, especially again, if we turned back the clock a week ago to all of the places that he could have gone in the top 10 that you would have felt good about. So I think that the, certainly the Jeremiah Love Domino there, very interested to see sort of what all of these defensive moves for the New York Jets also means on whom they might be honing in on. To me, it speaks to more of an R. Vell Reese type of a number two overall pick. than anything else just because they are getting bigger.

There is some familiarity there. Like signing DeMario Davis, I don't think that they draft Sunny Stiles and number two after, you know, not that DeMario Davis is going to be there forever. I don't hate the idea of Davis and Sunny Stiles. But to me it just says, hey, we're filling out a lot of different,

like specific traditional roles on our defense. Let's draft the guy who's a true off-ball, on-ball linebacker hybrid in R. Vel-R. Reese. To me, what the Jets have done goes into R.V.L. Reist starting to be more of the status quo number two overall pick than like Rubin Bain obviously was in that conversation, but more so recently Sonny Stiles or David Bailey. I think that we're honing in on Rvel Reese being that pick at number two. I would agree with that. I like your logic, Treve, and I can go along with it. I just feel like I don't trust NFL coaches to just not become enamored with arguably the best player at

the NFL draft. And so I know our guy, Dane, Dane had Jeremiah Love at four to the Titans in his most recent mock. And so if you look at it and say, well, we just spent a small GDP on our defense. Maybe we could help our offense out a little bit.

And then I said it jokingly to Robert earlier on the show, but John Harbaugh is going to love Jeremiah Love. Like he's going to love him. So here's my, there's like so many competing. And again, just like reading T. T. Lees and like guys' history with certain positions,

which isn't always the biggest indicator, but it's worth paying attention to. So two different things I have in mind. One, John Harbaugh just walked away from a situation where he watched what Derek Henry could do for an offense. Right? So we get a true, like, ridiculous force of nature type player in here. What can that look like?

Joe Shane, let's say Juan Barkley walk out of the building. Okay? How does that impact his thinking on what adding a guy like that back into the offense might look? what might look like. And so, again, whether that has any bearing on their decision, I don't know. But the fact that your two main decision makers, presumably, who knows how much Joe Shane is actually pulling the levers over there anymore.

But presumably your two main decision makers have an interesting history recently with big time running backs to say the least. No, that, I mean, the giants obviously are a conversation unto themselves. And I think that would just open 10 different cans of worms. But like if you remove all of those trappings from it, if I tell you Jeremiah Love is no worse than the second best player in this draft. And I think evaluators think that way more so more than fans want to give them credit for because typically those of us on the outside, you know,

you're talking about contract value and all of these very important things. But I think a lot of times it just boils down to who's the best football player. I also think that how the Raiders have gone about things really over the last week, like we'll factor in the Max Crosby trade as well, right? Like I think that that has totally changed the outlook of this draft and how aggressive that that team might be. Like I love the title of Linderbaum edition. You're about to get a young franchise quarterback in there.

Why not get in a super experienced center, one of the best in the NFL for him to be able to talk to and have a good relationship with? And obviously before the ball was even snapped, you're communicating with this guy. You're leaning on his expertise. I love that there. Obviously getting Jalen Naylor helps for them too.

And then when you look at the Max Crosby trade, I understand that like everybody kind of talked about what Max does for the Ravens, right? Like that's sort of the immediate. But to me, I think that that trade meant more towards the Raiders because you just never, almost never have your general manager, your head coach and your quarterback, your franchise quarterback, basically like on the same timeline.

Having all of this room to work with each other and actually have long-term plans, because a lot of times it's like, all right, one of them is on the hot seat, so you don't really get that continuity between the three timelines. The Raiders have that now. And trading away Max Crosby to me was actually most advantageous for them because now, especially getting two first round picks, it allows them to really lean into what is a major rebuild

and what's going to be the identity of just Clint Kubiak's offense, but then also who Fernando Mendoza is as a quarterback. So I love that they were super aggressive to go get Tyler Linderbaum. I really like that move there, obviously upgrading and proceedings. or helps as well. But I just, I think the Max Crosby move was the correct one for them as well.

It was funny because we didn't, we did the show yesterday and we didn't really talk about the Raiders side of it in real time. And I'm, this is oversight. But part of the reason for that is that I thought it was so self-evident

that it was the correct decision for the Raiders to make that there really wasn't a ton more analysis to provide than that. Like you traded away a 29-year-old pass rusher. And when we were talking about how we don't normally see these types of moves for a 29-year-old third-contract players

with that sort of trade market, like getting two first-round picks for it, how it was a hyper-aggressive trade for the Ravens. The other side of that implicitly is it is the correct choice because of the value you're getting back for the Raiders. And so that to me was one of the driving forces for why we didn't spend a lot of time talking about it,

is that in my mind it was just self-evidently the correct choice for the Raiders to make when it comes to Max Crosby. Moving on from a valuable asset that's on a different timeline from everyone else in your organization while he's still highly valuable. Yeah, like I don't think you need to spend a whole lot more time on it. Yeah, because also this question of like, oh, is Max going to want out?

The Raiders aren't very good. Like that was also probably going to exist a year from now, right? It's not like, oh, they get Fernando, they're going to be all good to go. They're going to win the division. They're going to be winning everything like that. So I just, I agree with you. I think this is totally the right move to make for him. Tref sincerely appreciate the time, buddy.

Great to see you. best of luck as you dig into draft season. I'm going to make you come on this show again before we actually get to the draft. So just be on the lookout for that. Sounds good, guys. Appreciate you having me. Keep killing it. Talk to you later.

Joining us now, our old buddy from the Prime Vision broadcast on Amazon, one of our favorite friends of the show. It's our friend Sam Schwarzstein. Sam, how you doing, man? What's up? You guys are grinding right now through the news. It's three hours and 47 minutes in. I feel like I can keep going for another four hours.

if I needed to. Well, fortunately for you, we have at least another hour and a half. So there's enough time. My brain just short-circuited. As I just said, I can go for another three hours. Anything that's come across your timeline in the last couple, in the last few minutes here that is in front of mind for you. What are you thinking about right now is worth three and a half,

half hours into this thing? I've been mixing it up on the Linderbomb news, right? And, you know, there's the sides of it where I was looking for the tweet where I said Linderbombs should win the Heisman. As a former center, my talent evaluation is, can you do the things I could never do? And him reaching two eyes as a shame, running outside zone is the best outside zone center

I'd seen since like Chris Myers or some of those old Alex Gibbs style outside zone teams. He does so much there. And he didn't run it a ton in Baltimore. I hear a lot of people talking about, hey, we should evaluate a quarterback and center being paired up and giving us a quarterback, a veteran center. So I see why you want to do it

Cubiak. The problem is that you don't need a massive center or a huge center contract style player to operate an offense that runs play action 30% of the time. If that's your plan, you're not making the mic points, you're not changing protections.

That's not the focus of it. So it's different than if you were getting like a, if you were putting a top tier center for Joe Burrow and said Joe, you do so much at the line, let's just focus on you throw in that football and we'll have a center do all that for you where you're manipulating protections. that's a different story.

And so, you know, it's market resetting. It's crazy. I want to hear people talk more about what did they give up by spending so much money on Linderbaum versus just looking at historical data because one thing that's interesting is every team, if you talk to their analytics staff, is looking for what's the future of this game. Where are there going to be runs on spending on players based off where the game is going, rule changes, what's going on NIL and transfer portal? that could be a big deal

because you cannot run the same offenses in college football with no continuity year to year. And so teams are trying to project out what will be a run. So maybe Senator is going to get a crazy payday because of protection and line calls. And maybe they're ahead of this thing. I don't think they are by double paying versus Connor McGovern.

But it's an interesting conversation. I don't think anyone can just go overpay, massive underpay, what the market was. I think, Hellman, you said it earlier, but like sometimes you might not trust certain things that teams will do. You have to coaches are coaches And they're going to want certain things And so I think it's been my big discussion

Also Charlie Cole are going to the Chargers is going to run a lot of lead screens out of the backfield because that's what Mike McDaniel likes to do Those are my two takes. So a little bit of corner news came across the timeline while we were transitioning to Sam here

Josh Job back to Seattle. I didn't see the, I think it was three years 24 but I know it's $8 million a year so $8 million a year for Josh Job back to Seattle. This is one that's interesting to me, Sam, because we talk about markets and positions and kind of how they start to unfold.

You have guys getting twice that. You know, Cordoflott's getting twice that to go to the Titans. Josh Job at $8 million a year, you understand how that market develops because in a vacuum for any system, Josh Job is probably not as valuable as a lot as other guys, but he's extremely valuable for what the Seahawks specifically need. And so the idea that you can spend half on Josh Job knowing what he gives your defense, defense, even if he has limitations in a vacuum for every system, that's one of those sightings where it's just like, you'll feel really good that you're paying him $8 million

a year compared to the corners that are costing 15. That's serendipitous because that's a crazy deal. I did a bunch of research post-Super Bowl on him because one thing I'm fascinated about is, I talk about this every year on your shows. How do we use data to better tell stories? And then how is there also mislabeled data and how can you take advantage of that? Josh Job plays in a defense that overall, but some of the most zoning. in the NFL, he himself plays some of those men because he's always in the boundary.

Yeah. He's always one-on-one. And he's playing that backside X a lot of the time covering him man. And so you could consider him a lockdown corner for what exactly like you said, for what this defense needs at a great discount for what a lot of these teams have. So, you know, they have three stud corners. And I think now you have one that's probably one of the more important ones that people don't talk about because of the ability they have to play man backside or they have all the

funky zone going into the front side. I just love, you took the words right out of my mouth. Like there's no projection here. That's what makes free agency so scary. It's like you're moving across the country. It's a new scheme. It's new coaches. It's a new level of talent around you.

Most of it is projection. And if there's none whatsoever for a pretty discounted price for a starting caliber corner, that's one of my favorite things that's come across the ticker all day. Because I don't have to imagine what Josh Job is going to look. like for the Seattle Seahawks. I can just go watch his games. Smaller one, but one that's worth mentioning here, Larry Borum is heading to the Lions. We do not have numbers on that quite yet about where he'll be playing. Larry Borum, for the Dolphins last year, played mostly right tackle.

In his career, he's kind of bounced back and forth. He played mostly left tackle 24. So is this potentially a stopgap or competition at that left tackle spot if Taylor Decker is going to move on? mentioned this with the Declan News, are you ready to kind of seed that job to Giovanni Manu or do you need a little bit more competition in that room? Day one signing for Larry Borum seems to indicate that maybe he has a chance to play for that team a little bit more than we might have thought. And that to me signals we're not going to have a panic attack if our options that picks 17 in the draft don't lend itself to helping that position. Yeah. And I mean, drafting a

drafting a good tackle that at 17 like that far down the list in the first round is easier said than done. I actually, I do think this is a year where you could potentially pull that off, but that lessens the urgency on you to solve that problem in the draft, which is I always think a really smart way to approach free agencies. We're like, hey, we won't be screwed if we don't do something more about this later. Sam, now that we're in kind of a low with the sightings and the fact that we don't have any currently rolling in, I'm curious, just going back to any other bigger picture kind of studies or things that you wanted to table set before free agency. started. What were the bigger picture thoughts that you kind of had on your mind as you were

thinking about this group and how the money would get thrown around? Yeah, I mean, I keep going back to what the Raiders are doing because they made the big trade to get rid of their franchise piece with Crosby. And now we know they're going to take from Manoza first overall. That's been made clear today as a tough AFC West. And the Chiefs, one of the better DVOA teams that didn't make the playoffs with our good friend Aaron shots. So I think that that team is taking massive swings. I have no idea if they will work out. And then you want to look at the commanders because the commanders,

they've missed on a few of the prospects that apparently they wanted. They wanted Alex Pierce. They have a new offensive coordinator and David Blow, who we don't even know what his offense is going to look like with a quarterback who, you know, he ran more pro style, Janin Daniels, is the Arizona state, but now how long ago is that? And so if they're going to a pro-style offense, that's going to be a brand new look over there in Washington

for a team that looked like it was on the precipice of being a big player in the NFC, I haven't seen them make enough moves to make me feel comfortable with them being a big player again. They might have another down here. I wonder what the Washington mover receiver is with both those guys now off the table with Pierce now off the table. Is that the Romeo Dobbs team?

now that Mike Evans is in San Francisco. And then the other thing here is what happens with Brandon Ayuk. Right? Like, the theory not Alex Pierce is Brandon Iuc now a fallback option for them? Like, there are still some solutions at one of those boundary receiver spots, but they're starting to dwindle a little bit. Is Brandon Ayuk a solution right now? I mean, that's a good question.

A worthwhile question. I guess we'll see. No substation nearby, but there's other issues. No substation in these suburbs. I am worried about Mike. Mike Evans is a soft tissue. He's had the handstring issues in the past. We're just,

we're veering into very tough territory here. Yeah, I think Mike Evans is an awesome one too because I think what that what that offense wants to do is to give Brock Purdy a guy who can have the three-way go at the top of that route, whether it's going to be the go ball,

the out route, or the dig. That's a lot of what's built into a lot of their offense. And he's actually one of the better throwers in time. He struggles a little bit with teams that are ready for that.

Like, I went to the Monday night football game against the Panthers. He is the slowest throwing ball over 20 yards from a miles per hour perspective. And that shows up a lot and when teams can run with anticipation. But having a big body like that, Mike Evans has made a lot of quarterbacks, a lot of money. And now Brock Hardy's being paid a lot of money. I think it's going to be a great fit. Having that guy, like he did with Iyuk,

where he could just trust one player to make one big play is going to be a huge value. for this offense that was missing. Juan Jennings loved him to death, but that was not the guy that you wanted to anchor this offense on wide receiver position last year. I'm not trying to retread the same territory. We've done a million different times when it comes to running back value.

I don't really care what the answer is. I just think that this offseason in particular is an interesting one for having a discussion about how important they are for individual offenses. And the two things that I feel like are kind of working in tandem with each other this offseason in particular and what happened today.

Kenneth Walker going to Kansas City and the Chiefs being like, we need this level of popper running back for our offense to come together in the same off season where we're potentially going to be talking about Jeremiah Love is a top five pick. I just think that the bulk of data

and the touch points that we're seeing at that position this spring, Sam, it's at least worth thinking about how they all fit together and what it overall means for the types of players and the types of skill sets you're seeking out at that position. I mean, that's a full.

really funny one for me because the chiefs of the past two years are one of the more successful running games and this is without the ability to QB sneak with the quarterback on fourth down which can inflate rushing success rate numbers but they had almost no explosion right so from a television perspective

we love it we have a consistent good offense that shortens the game that makes the games closer now they have Kenneth Walker who we want who we almost did a thing on him on Pride Vision where we would measure how much backwards running he do before going forward.

We're going to get it for next year, but it makes it worse now because he's in an offense that wants to find explosive runs. That's why he, because they're trying to change what they're doing on offense with, that's a clear indicator. But they teach their backs, go straight. Just get me four.

I don't know if you could teach Kenneth Walker that. He's going to want to run up to line scrimmage, run backwards, and then use his speed to get outside. Unreal posterior chain on that guy. If you know, you know. So I'm, I'm going to be interested to see. are they going to change the offense with Nagy out to where they can manufacture more explosive runs get into the edge versus where they've been is

just try and keep Mahomes out of being super backed up because he'll make third and seven look like third and two. Sam, as always buddy, it's great to chat with you. Excited to have you back on the show as we dig into some more kind of bigger picture of philosophical offseason discussions. I will make you do that at some point in April and May. And so we'll do that when the time comes, but sincerely appreciate the time.

We'll talk to you very soon. you're a very demanding guy you say this to everybody as they leave off i will make you do this i guess what i'm up the rest of the calendar today i just hope you're not surprised when i send you a text on like may first being like hey anytime of the next month you want to come on and do do the do x and y so that will happen just be ready for the tech arrive i do like it because we all show up and do it for you the end of day helmet so it's like a very funny thing you appreciate you say we're going to and we will i'll talk to you soon all right before we move on we're going to take one break. Joining us now and we're going to have him roll in while we pull up the top 150

graphic and see what's left on the board. It is our friend from Yahoo and reception. Our man, Matt, Matt, how you doing, bud? What up, boys? Quiet day. Not, not, not my time. I'm doing fine. I'm not completely fried. I love the part, this is the part of the day where you might go six to 12 minutes without something happening and you're just like, what the hell. I'm bored. Give me more. Give me more the dopamine to keep going. Let's go. So not much has changed of our top 50 here as we look

at it compared to the last time we checked in. We still got Trey Hendrickson left. That's going to be a really interesting one. Devin Lloyd's still on the board. Daffa O'A. Rashid Walker, Jamea, Luminor. A lot of offensive linemen in that collection of players. We saw Josh Job head back to Seattle. Tarik Wollin still available. Boy, Maffa, the other

Seahawks defender we've not seen come off the board. Matt, I'm curious about, as you sit there and look at Romeo Dobbs being, you him and Joanne Jennings being left here. And we've seen some of the dominoes start to fall receiver. Mike Evans ends up in San Francisco. We see Jaylon Naylor head to the Raiders. Your landing spots right now for Dobbs and Jennings

when you think about their skill sets and the teams that need guys like that, what's on your mind? Yeah, Dobbs. I actually was the guy that I had pegged to go to San Francisco. So that moved. Yeah, okay, well, there you go. That moved out off the board. Mike Evans is basically the better version of that.

I love that fit. there as their ex-receiver. I think for Jennings, it's tough with him because, frankly, I just only, he was great last season. Obviously, he was playing through a lot of injuries. Everybody in San Francisco is playing through a lot of injuries. So there is that to consider. But, you know, he also is kind of miscast as, I think, again, to come back to the Evans

thing, he kind of had to play as their ex-receiver, which was obviously not the plan. I don't think that's the ideal usage for him. So I think that's a part of why I think he wasn't as impactful as you probably would have wanted him to be. But Baltimore, to me, stood out as a landing spot for him because I think he brings some size to the position. He's also not old enough to, and probably not like a high pedigree enough to land on that disgusting list of like receivers who finished their career with the Ravens that were 33 years old and were great back in like 2015. But bring some size to the position I think they need. He can play on the ball, allow you to do some fun stuff with Zayflowers. So that was still one that I think

makes a lot of sense for him. And for Dobbs, it feels kind of cheap to say New England, but I've seen that one kind of connected. And it would make sense they do need more help on the perimeter and a guy that can just like consistently pick up first downs. He is a guy that I think helps you move to chains. There was so much smoke about Alec Pierce to New England. And we talked about them not meeting Indianapolis's price,

which is few and far between at this point. But like if you came out of this with Romeo Dobbs at a much lower price point, I would feel pretty good about that. Yeah, the two teams that, again, where I think we're in on the Pierce thing that I think do make sense as landing spots for Dobbs because of needing that skill set, Washington and New England,

those are the two teams that I think are worth mentioning there. I'm curious how you feel about Naylor. The price tag, the fit in, the fit with the Raiders, just that past catching group in general. I know you had been doing some work about the free agent receivers before the market opens.

So where do you sit with Naylor and his elevation going from decidedly the number three in Minnesota to now profiling as more of a number two option with the Raiders. Yeah, got that Jalen Naylor charting profile up on the site on Sunday night. So thank God we got that one in before he signs the first day of free agency. No, I really liked what I saw it at Jalen Naylor. Honestly, at times I thought he had like the best chemistry with J.J. McCarthy last year,

which by the way is not a good thing, right? Like it's good for Jailen Naylor, but you don't want your third receiver to have the best chemistry with the quarterback. That's not an ideal situation for a situation that we all know was not ideal. deal in Minnesota last year. But I thought a few things stood out with Jalen Naylor going back and charting his eight games for reception perception last night and over the weekend. Number one, made a lot of plays at the catch point, like contested stuff, attacked the ball well, shielded defenders away from the ball. I thought that was pretty nice to see. Not really a strength of any

of those Raiders receivers at this point. I do think they have some interesting, useful guys potentially on the roster, but they don't necessarily have someone that could do that. He's also a guy that I think can play all three receiver positions credibly. probably more of a Z and slot option at his best. But still, I think that allows you to unlock some movement with the other guys there. Because a guy I liked Besh as a prospect, but I thought he might be a little bit more developmental. Dante Thornton was like a pure developmental player to me.

It still bothers me that they just pushed that guy in the deep end after drafting him from the Looney Tunes Tennessee offense. That made no sense to me. A lot of stuff did not make sense to me with what happened in Las Vegas last year. But that was one of the more perplexing ones. So I wouldn't want to give up on those guys necessarily. Nailer allows you to just kind of unlock your best three at the receiver position. In addition, like, Trey Tucker is a guy who can legit, like, stretch the field.

He led all wide receivers in Snapshare last year in terms of, like, most snaps from on a percentage basis of his team's offense. That's probably not what you want at a Trey Tucker. So again, Nailer just allows you to come in here and level set things a little bit. But yeah, I wouldn't say that the Raiders got themselves a future star or anything with Nailer, but a really legitimate, useful player, which is something they definitely lacked a wide receiver last year. So let's play this out because I'm interested in this because you do so much thinking about this exact subject.

So we got Bech, Trey Tucker, J.1 Naylor, Brock Bowers. If you're trying to piece together what the roles with that group looks like, or let's just say your answer at the end of this may be, they still need, I was going to say X, but that's a misleading letter to use when it comes to receivers. They still need fill in the blank in terms of skill sets. How do you think all of those pieces do fit together in an ideal scenario for the Raiders?

In a world where, and again, this is worth mentioning, Clint Kubiak, we were having conversations heading into last year about how it was a weird collection of skill sets with Seattle's receivers and it didn't end up mattering. And so he does have some very recent experience with maybe what seems like an odd collection of players and making a really cohesive offense out of that. Yeah, I mean, to put a fine point on it, I kind of do think they need like a nominal X receiver here in this room.

Like somebody just play on the ball and beat Pressman coverage consistently, because even if you didn't have proof of concept of Jackson Smith and Jigba being a outside boundary receiver prior to this past year, you definitely, this was a drum I beat consistently with him. You did have proof of concept of him being able to beat man coverage. So you could like make a case that he would transition well into that as a three level player, even if it was unproven at that point. I don't think any of these guys rise to that level, even if you do like Nailer. And like I liked Jack Bess as a prospect.

Thornton would be that guy. But again, is he ready to do that? I didn't see a lot of evidence as a rookie that he was ready to do that. And I didn't expect it to be that as anything, again, more than a developmental guy. So that's probably like the skill set that they need is that type of player. And we talked about this a lot last year with the Seahawks offense that because they play out of so many condensed formations, it does kind of blur the line between slot and outside receivers. So I think all of those guys, Tucker, Bech, and Naylor can do that at just at different levels of the field.

you probably would say that like Naylor and definitely Tucker are your deeper threat guys, whereas Bech is going to operate in the short to intermediate area. And I mean, for a guy like Tucker too, and I guess Naylor as well, part of your job is just open up space for Brock Bowers to be able to do everything as a move around threat, which I mean, I remember last year when the Seahawks drafted Elijah Royo and John Schneider said like, oh yeah, some of our coaching staff

really thinks he could play X receiver. I'm like, Brock Bowers is like the actualized version of that theory. so I think they'll be able to get away with that more often here in Las Vegas. Understanding that the answer is everything when you're as bad as the Raiders were, is there a direction they could go with their new Ravens pick that would get you more excited than other places? It's really good question. I was pegging offensive line for that pick A.k.

But that was before they got Tyler Linderbaum for $81 million. I mean, you could still make a very serious argument. They need two more offensive line, though. I mean, they need it at all. The DJ Glaze thing is unfortunate. The closest comparison I would make, it reminds me a little bit of what happened with Braxton Jones in Chicago, where mid-round pick thrust into starting role as a rookie,

plays well enough where he earns the job again the next season, but then you bring in an offensive infrastructure that's just hot, flaming garbage. He plays terrible. And then now you're in a place where do we have to replace him and the Bears ended up doing that. And so kind of remind, like, it's a developmental plan that has been

uneven to no fault of his own, I guess is what I would say. And that's why I think, but if when you're on that development plan, you could absolutely justify just being like, ah, fuck it, we're getting ahead of this. We're going to draft guy in the first round. We're just going to put this to bed. So if they replace their right tackle and their left guard, I still wouldn't be surprised by that.

That would make me really excited just to watch the Raiders offense, but then you flip over to what their defense looks like right now. And I don't know, might need some balance between the two sides of all. We just said they have no players making more than $10 million a year. It's an insane roster. It's kind of wild when you actually think about it. The other big receiver contract, Matt, that I wanted to ask you about, I know you weren't overly excited about what his market was going to look like.

Wondell Robinson making $18.5 million a year in Tennessee and how that fits with the current collection of Titans past catchers. Where are you at on this? I mean, it's fine, you know? I know that sounds. It's 3.10 p.m. We're four hours into this. It's exactly where we all are.

Right. It's fine, especially because also didn't we all come to terms what this was going to happen? We just needed to know what the number was going to be like four days ago. Yeah. I mean, honestly, probably when we all saw Brian Dable get hired by Tennessee,

we knew that this was coming. But yeah, I mean, look, credit to Wandole Robinson. He played really well last year within his given role. And they kind of essentially just took his really stupid hitch heavy route tree from 2024. I'm like, what if we threw him a deep post every now and again? Like, you know, mostly against like the Bengals and the Cowboys,

hideous secondaries. What if we just, what if we just did that, which by the way is what he did at Kentucky with Liam Cohen in college. Like it made sense to finally sprinkle some of that. I mean, in 2024, he literally had a negative EPA per target, 93 catches, 699 yards. So you could, again, just sprinkle some downfield stuff. That would be nice for him. And I think they'll do that here in Tennessee.

My two concerns, one is like more of a meta, maybe macro level concern. But the first one is just like, does he overlap, not from a how they win perspective, but from a pre-snap alignment perspective, does he overlap too much with Chimir Dike? Which if you think Chimier Dikai is just a gadget guy and like a good return player, that's fine. I think it's totally defensible take. But if you think he's more than that, does Robinson block him a little bit? there from getting on the field because Robinson definitely has to be a slot player who's going to

move around the formation a little bit, which again, I think is probably the idle usage for Chimir D-K, but you mentioned blank slate with the Raiders defense. Like this pass-catching group to me is a blank slate. So if you just want to throw resources at it and see what stick, I think that's fine. The second thing, again, that would just have to be concerned if I was a Titans fan, not that you're not going to get some use out of Robinson, you are. And this could also extend to Romeo Dobbs. And frankly, I think you could extend to like Alec Piers.

a little bit too, although he's definitely a better version of his archetype than these two guys are. Are you not just better off trying to find the next version of Wando Robinson or Romeo Dobbs or even, again, Alec Pierce, although he was definitely a better prospect and better player last year than either of those two guys. Because to me, it's just like, I look at those three players and I see three guys that were just good enough to like hang around for four years to starting roles and get better and better. better incrementally throughout their career because they just, again, had time to develop and grow on the job where, like, I thought Dobbs and I guess even Wondell, too, they were like terrible players in their rookie season. Like, they were just not useful on a consistent basis. But then again, there's 10% better every single year. Are you not better off trying to find the next guy there

rather than paying 18 million, whatever it is for Wondell Robinson? I think that's like a discussion to have. But when you're the Titans, you have all this money, you got to spend it somehow and you got to try to make a quarterback's life a little bit easier. So I guess I can get behind it in that way. But that was just something that I thought about consistently over the last few days before we headed into free agency. I love this. And I think it's a really interesting discussion.

And I think it's my knee jerk responses. It's all about where you are in the team building process, right? Because having, they did get so much better. Like watching Romeo Dobbs last year, like some of it was the way that the Bears played man coverage late in the season. But you watch Romeo Dobbs last year in one-on-one situation. and just like what he was doing as a third down got a habit player for that offense, that was not who he was early in his career.

And so if you're on the precipice, you think you're competitive, that's the skill set you're missing for your offense. You're willing to pay a premium for that in the moment because you don't want to wait around for three years for him to develop into that sort of player. But if you're a team that's a little bit earlier in the early stages of this thing and you have time for those players to grow into those roles, then I think your point totally stands. It's like, well, why would we pay $18 million a year for Romeo Dobbs when we could have Romeo Dobbs from two years for $4 million a year because we drafted him in the third round.

But which teams have those years to wait around and wait for that development to happen, I think is the question. Right. Like is Alec Iommanor the next Romeo Dobbs? Maybe, right? Maybe. That's completely plausible to me. And I think the, and this is actually a perfect example, because what the Packers didn't do is they didn't sign the $18 million version of Romeo Dobbs to block Romeo Dobbs's development. And that's the reason he turned into this sort of player.

And so that's always kind of the push and pull when it comes to these things is, yeah, you can solve this problem with money in the short term, but are you cutting off development pathways to guys that will eventually get there at a cheaper price? And so that's always kind of the push and pull that you're having to weigh in these sorts of moments. And I think, I mean, ideally the Titans get to a point where that's a problem for them to confront.

I don't blame them if they don't think they're there just yet. Even with a couple of young receivers on their roster, like I understand those guys are there. But if you kind of feel like you need to microwave this thing in the meantime to get Cam Ward up to snuff, I understand that compulsion. Well, what I would say is let's say the Titans move on from Calvin Ridley, which I don't think would be shocking necessarily at the price. If they decided to move on because they're paying him a lot of money, that makes sense. the best analog for what the Titans are doing right now, you don't have to, it doesn't take much creativity. It's what the Patriots did last year, right?

And so let's even play that out further. Beyond just the amount of money that you're spending, let's say Wondell Robinson at $18 million a year slots into just the expensive receiver bucket that you put Stefan Diggs in last year, that still leaves a can Kishan Booty get better for us bucket for you? And let's say you put Ayo Manor into that one. It doesn't have to be one or the other. you can do both at the same time.

But if you're going to sign one of those guys, it's going to come at the expense of reps and development opportunities for some young player on your roster. And outside of Calvin Ridley, that's all they had. All they had is young players at those past catching spots. So, yeah, I think you saw enough from those guys last year to, like I said, leave the door open. But I wouldn't say that any of them, whether it's IOMAN or DECA or whatever,

none of them were just so authoritatively good that it's like, okay, that position is locked down for us. So because the familiarity is there with Juan Dale and, you know, with Brian Dable and everything, I can get behind like, all right, that was the guy we wanted. I'm just like, would I be the one to pay if I was in charge of things, which I'm not, I'm just in my little box here. But if I was in charge of things, like would I have been the one to do that? Probably not.

But I can understand their thinking. Anything else? Any parting thoughts about what's went down today, what's gone down today that you feel like is something that's still on your mind? I think the cult situation probably landed in a, in a, good spot for everybody involved. To me, like, I'm just always worried

when a guy like Alec Pierce goes and becomes, you know, the number one receiver for somebody else, which his contract would have demanded had he left. And I just think they were so, they were really intentional on how they used Pierce last year. Like, yeah, he was still outside on the line of scrimmage, boundary stuff,

but they definitely condensed him a lot closer to the offensive line than in previous seasons, which again gives him so much more, based to operate as that ex-receiver. To me, it's just like, had he gone to Tennessee, and it's much more of a true spread-out offense under Brian Daibald with more of a, again, more traditional, like old-school leanings, at least in my opinion, I think there's a chance that, like,

okay, he has 84 targets or 90 targets for the Titans next year, and he has 800 or 50 yards, and Titans fans are like, why did we pay this guy $30 million? It's kind of in the same way that, like, the Steelers fans are like, we paid D.K. McCaff $30 million for that last year. Like, I don't know how, I don't know how well, that contract is age. And I frankly think they're like similar. Actually, as a prospect, I compared Alec Pierce to like the bad analysis on D.K. Metcalf as a prospect, like,

kind of stiff, can only really run three routes, probably has to play on one side of the field and like, that's it. Now, Pierce has again gotten better than it. So is D.K. Metcalf. But staying home sometimes is, like the grass is just not always greener. So I think that actually landed in a pretty good spot for Pierce, even though the idea of him with Drake May was pretty fun. I do think, like, staying with the coach that knows you, like a team that knows you can still be good. And, you know, for Pittman, actually with DK Metcalf, I think he gets a new deal. He gets to start over. I think Pittman's a really smart player, great culture guy, going to work really hard.

It is just kind of funny that the Steelers team that I always hated this narrative. Just they can't miss when it comes to day two receivers. They can't miss. Well, now they've traded for like two other players discarded veterans in back-to-back off season. So I think we could probably put that narrative to bet at this point. I think the Pierce thing is so well-founded. And we look back, we were talking about this last week, when we were discussing the recent history for agency

and not even just the recent history, but you go back a decade. I mean, the landmines at receiver is crazy. And I think it's, if there's a lasting lesson from that, and the Pierce thing is a really good example of this, receivers are more situational dependent than I think we like to admit sometimes. And so a guy like Pierce, like that's exactly,

that scenario of it's 90 targets, it's 65, catch. 850 yards, how many times have we had to watch that? We've watched that happen so many times because we just think, well, this guy was productive in this place, he's going to be productive here, and those small little idiosyncrasies and nuances with the role matter so much for getting the most out of those guys. And so allowing him to be in that situation where we've seen him thrive,

it just there's so much better, the chances of success are just so much higher because there's no confusion and there's no blurriness with what the role should be. You know exactly how to get the most out of this guy. 100%. Like, and I think, too, you should always be considering, am I signing this guy so he can just come in and replicate his production here? Probably a bad idea. But am I signing him to like help another player?

Like Mike Evans, again, he's this better version of what I thought Romeo Dobbs would bring to the Niners. Like him being that on ball X receiver allows like Ricky Pierceall to do more and move around and not just have to be a vertical guy. So you should always be kind of considering that as opposed to just like we're trying to, you know, Dave said earlier, like microwave this production for certain teams that that doesn't make a lot of sense. And specifically with guys that are hyper-specific. And if you're making it to free agency, you're a hyper-specific type of receiver. Matt Harmon, always great to chat with you, sir. People can check out all the work you're doing like four times a day on Yahoo.

We have the fantasy podcast. You're on Football 301 with Nate. Always doing fantastic work. People are not checking out either of those. Please do so. We'll talk to you very soon. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me. Our last guest of the day got just nothing but runway here. Beth for last. Our buddy from PHLY is our guy, Fran Duffy. Fran, how you doing, man? What's happening, guys?

A lot, actually. A couple of times that just came down that we have not talked about yet. There was a stretch. I love when this happens. We're just certain position groups. It all happened at the same time. We had the D-Ds about half an hour ago. We got the edge rushers now. You ready? I saw this one, I think.

I'm sorry. Well, you know, I can't. The whole vibe of the show. I can't stay off at Twitter for five hours. Go ahead, though. Boy amafé, three years, $60 million to sign with these six men angles. I did not see the price. Holy shit.

Three years, $60 million for Boya Amafay. Okay, let's, I'll lay this one on you. If you like that one, $20 million a year for Boya Amafay, the Washington commanders are signing Odafe OA, four years, $100 million. for O'Dafo to go to Washington. Whoa. And so, again, the edge rusher market had some interesting pieces in it, Fran, compared to

a year past. We had Jalen Phillips. We had Adafay O'A. We have Boy Amafay. I was wondering where those prices would sort out. It's funny that we have equal distances. So you get Jalen Phillips at $30 million a year. You get OA at $25 million a year.

And now you get Boya Amafi at $20 million a year. There's something very beautiful about that. Yeah, we had talked about it on our show earlier. once the Jalen Phillips numbers came out and it was 30 million. We kind of thought, all right, it's going to be high, maybe 27 a year, maybe 28 a year. We did not talk about 30 million a year. And so when that came through, I was like, all right, what does that mean for the rest of the market? For Oway to come in at 25, I like the scheme fit, you know, with Dan Quinn.

I think that could be really fun. I think you get into some of the things that Durante Jones has done in the past. Like I've been around Brian Flores, moving those rushes around. That could be fun. Yeah. So I'm excited for that. but that's a pretty penny, man. I mean, you know, when you're looking at some of the other guys that are in that market

or even just below that, you know, Dinell Hunter before they just redid his deal, I mean, he was at 24-5. So, like, that's the, that's the echelon we're talking about now with where Adafi always being paid. And then when you get into that next bucket with 20 million a year, I mean, that's a big price to pay for Oda, or for, for, for the kid from Seattle, just a phenomenal that he was able to cash in that way. I don't think we actually talked about this. top of the show.

But, and it was a big price to pay. But when I saw the Cowboys throw a fourth to the Packers for what's left of Rishon Gary's contract. I thought you were going to say for what's left of Rishon Gary. That's much meaner than I typically get from you. That is mean, but fair based on what Rishon Gary looked like in December and January? As soon as I saw, I was like, the edge rusher prices must be nuts. Like the Cowboys must be terrified of what they're here and out there if they're doing this.

And I'm not saying it's going to work, but I understand the logic if you'd rather hope Rashan Gary can give you more for a future fourth than $25 million for Adafay O'A or $20 million for Boe or Maffei. I really like this. So you look at just analogous contracts for what the O'DafioA contract looks like, Fran. Nick Bonito got $106 million over four years with $70 million guaranteed. They always getting $100 million over four years with $68 million guaranteed. And so I think it really speaks very cleanly to what free agency is versus what it looks like when you're resigning guys in your own building. Where Benito has been so much more productive.

And again, undersized guys, they give you a very specific sort of impact within the defense. But Benito has been so much more impactful and consistent and productive over the course of his career than a guy like OA is. But when you're hitting the market and you have these teams who are seeking out that skill set because they couldn't find their own. guys, that's how you get to a place where Odafei is worth the same amount of money as Nick Bonito. And it's, I'm sure the push pool that, you know, I look at it from a player's perspective as well, right? Where if you are, if you are Nick Benito and you say, all, well, I'm getting ready to hit the market. Should I, you know, do I want to stay here in Denver where I've got a proven place where I want to be, I can have success? I'm happy with where I'm living.

I'm happy in this situation with this coaching staff, with my teammates. Let's take this deal now where, yeah, I'm pushing up near the top end of the market. But I can, I can, could probably make more if I wait this out. But what happens if I get hurt? What happens if production falls off? You get out, there's all these other factors that come into play. But it's the Kirk Cousins thing. It's the Dak Prescott thing where it's like, yeah, like a put, if you hit the market,

you've got that ability to just push that future earnings number higher and higher and higher. So, yeah, I definitely felt that honestly seeing a number of these contracts today. Certainly a wide receiver, there were a number of numbers that surprised me. You guys were just talking about that. I think when you're looking at it, certainly at these premium positions, I think you said it, you guys said it over the weekend. If you're an offensive lineman that can walk and chew gum at the same time, you're going to get like a double-digit million per year guaranteed.

I think at the end of the day, wide receiver, pass rush, offensive line, those are those are the premium spots. And even just suitable play, teams are willing to pay top dollar for that spot. Boya Mafia getting that $20 million a year. If you look at it, and Paul Dainer did a great job of pointing this out. If you account for cap inflation, it's essentially the, exact same swing they took on Trey Hendrickson five years ago. And you think about the situations,

Trey Hendrickson comes from New Orleans where he's the third edge rusher on that team, and you're trying to bet on, okay, this is a guy who's productive. If we send him, if we put him into a role where he's getting more snaps, can we kind of just extrapolate that production into more playing time? And can he be a valuable piece for us?

That's exactly what Trey Hendrickson was for the Bengals on that contract. And now I think they're making a very similar bet here, Fran, about whether Boy Maffa can follow a similar path. I will say, like, when Hendrickson was leaving New Orleans, you know, I was with the Eagles at the time. The Eagles later and the Saints had played a lot over the, whether it was postseason, you know, in the regular season, they played a decent amount.

It was like a four-year stretcher. I'd watched a lot of Trey Hendrickson. And I felt like that was a good, that was a good bet. That was a great signing in Frasier. I was like, yeah, like, I feel good about this. This is a good bet to make. I don't feel the same, the same warm and fuzzies about this bet. for Cincinnati.

You know, and Maffei, I think that when you look at his game, like he's, he had explosive traits going back to Minnesota when he was coming out of college. You saw that the potential was absolutely there,

but I never felt like the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. You know, and I know that like some of the efficiency metrics can paint him in a good light, but I just, in watching Seattle over the last few years, like, you know,

even this year, obviously with that defense, like the versatility I love, he could do a lot of different things and there's certainly value there, but I did not see that same level of like impact Russia where all right if I'm able to project this in a bigger role that I think the numbers are going to take off that's going to be interesting to track I was trying to get him at

14 million a year and good luck my friend I you I mean you you laid it out last week really well that the middle class doesn't exist anymore no I'm talking about talking about defensive in contracts we're at hour five you're having a whole different conversation socioeconomic conversation but I mean it's true. Like you, I mean, you've got to pay a premium for these guys

or else you're, you're fishing at the bottom of the barrel. So the other, speaking of the Cowboys and the markets and the defensive players they were seeking out,

Jalen Thompson is where the Cowboys land at safety. I believe, I had the numbers, and then I lost them for Jaylon Thomas. Three years, 36 million. So this is,

I love when this happens, where we just have a price like, this is what it costs. Right. To sign a player at this, in free agency. So in this class, it's $12 to $13 million for a safety. Last year it was $16 to $18 million for a corner.

That's what we're doing. So Jalen Thompson, Pran signs the 26th, free Asian safety contract to head to Dallas. You obviously watch Christian Parker very close. You know that system. You watch Christian Parker very closely over the last few years. As you think about how Jalen Thompson profiles into that defense

and those roles that were filled by Reed Blankenship and others over the last couple of years, how do you feel like Jalen Thompson fits into what Christian Parker wants to do? Yeah, I think that it is a good fit conceptually. And I think that there's some carryover with some of the things that he did with Nick Rallis, which, you know, out in Arizona, they did some wacky stuff. So it's not completely apples to apples. But in terms of trying to project him forward into this Christian Parker scheme, I do like the fit there. I think when you're looking at Thompson, you're betting on a guy that's got traits.

Obviously, it was a unique situation with him coming out. of college football going in the supplemental draft. I think when you're looking at Thompson, this is a player that has that ability to work down close to the line. He can play split safety, you know, move over to the post. I think that that versatility will serve him well. The biggest thing. And I think that when you talk about that system,

the safeties and the nickel are so, so important in terms of the term you always use, Robert, the connective tissue right, of that defense. How often they are forced to communicate with those guys on either side, and just being able to kind of pass things along and be kind of that sheriff there on the back end. It's important to kind of have, like, do you know that that's what you're getting with Jalen Thompson?

But right away, I'm like, all right, who in that building in Dallas now can kind of speak to that? Well, their offensive coordinator, Clayton Adams, came from Arizona last year and can speak to, oh, you know, yeah, like, he can be that. He definitely is that kind of presence there. So I do think that that's probably a box you wanted to check. here in Philly, we were wondering, all right, like, could Christian Parker pluck Reed

Blanketship? A lot of safeties here in the market, would they go with Reed Blanketship? Because he is that guy on the back end for the Eagles in terms of being that traffic cop and kind of setting the defense back there. So him being, then decided to go with Jalen Thompson and pass up Reed Blanketship, he must have someone in there that was able to say, like, yeah, like he's got the physical talent and provides the intangibles there. And he does. I mean, it's easy to draw the line. And I did it on the show, Fran, re-blankenship, Ryan Smith is the secondary coach in Dallas now coming from Arizona. That was one of Christian Parker's hires.

Yeah, there you go. There you go. I was like, this reminds me a little bit of when Cam Bynum signed with the Colts last year, when you have those safeties that are coming from those funky systems and you're just putting so much on those guys on the back end, because we always wonder, like, there's always a question of what's a guy going to look like in different circumstances, what's a guy going to look like when you put something different on his plate. And when you have guys that are coming from those defenses where everything is on their plate, I think you feel pretty good about what they can look like in a different situation.

And so Jalen Thompson kind of fits that bill last year in the same way that Cam Bynum did going to the Colts. Anything else, Brian, Eagles wise, that's a front of mind for you and what happened today. Obviously, Jalen Phillips walks out of the building, but I mean, there's nothing you can do about that, right? Like, I mean, $30 million a year. It's like, there's nothing you can do. It becomes a version of what the Milton Williams thing was last year.

I mean, Fran, like, what do y'all even do? Like, is everybody just bored in Philly right now? It's so quiet. Like, you do Jordan Davis yesterday, but I don't know. I was expecting more activity because there's always activity with the Eagles. Yeah, I think the big thing was, and you kind of knew this coming in, that this was going to be a big off season. And next year will be the same in terms of, like, extending your own and resigning.

And I know that there was been a lot of reporting that they were trying to put, to extend Jalen Phillips and get that deal done. To me, you were always going to have a walkaway number there because the Eagles went into the season last year with Nolan Smith and Jailets Hunt. And Nolan Smith at this time last year, everybody's like rocket to the moon with what he looked like in the postseason. He was just never really healthy this past year

and was on injured reserve. They had nobody opposite Jaylitz Hunt who was just a safety in the Ivy League like five years ago. So he was like, all right, like he obviously took a big step this year, but you didn't have anybody opposite him. And so they go out and they make that trade. They feel motivated. They feel their urgency to trade for Jalen Phillips.

Well, when they acquire him, it was like, yeah, this guy, we want to keep this guy. He's everything we want in the locker room, on the field, off the field. He's got all the traits. He's a great fit for the system. He's great for Vic. He can project forward into a new defense once Vic Fangio does retire. So I think that they would have liked to keep him. But at some point, it couldn't match what other teams were going to offer.

And the point I made up on the show earlier today was that last year, Carolina, they lost out on Milton Williams. Remember, they was reported, oh, Milton Williams is going to Carolina, and then New England swooped in and stole them out. So they weren't getting out bid this time for their Eagles defensive linemen. I'm curious what you think

the Jordan Davis deal means potentially for Jalen Carter. Like, do you think this is a move where one impacts the other? Like, is there smoke here? How do you think this ultimately gets resolved with Carter after we saw that contract for Jordan Davis? You know, we talked about it a couple weeks ago where it was okay,

when basically no bad ideas, right? Let's throw everything on the table. The different things that Howie Roseman, Nick Siriani, leadership, Jeffrey Lurie can talk through here this offseason. And one of the ideas was the idea of trading Aylan Carter, even though when healthy, like this guy is an elite player. And that's what you were trying to do in the draft as acquire elite talent. And the Eagles did that.

In the top 10, you go and you draft Jaylen Carter. Last year, he was not healthy at all. He dealt with a shoulder, literally was not on the field to start training camp because of one shoulder, ended up getting a procedure done, then got a procedure done on the second shoulder. So, like, you know, he was saying, you know, he couldn't do push-up.

He couldn't do a push-up at some point mid-season. That's typically hard to do or hard to play defensive line if you can't use either shoulder. So I think when you're looking at Carter, what you saw Lasser is kind of a shell of what you would come to expect. And he was dominant down the stretch in the second half, the second season when they won the Super Bowl in 2024. My gut tells me they would love to be able to try and get something.

done and you want to try and extend him. And my guess is is that if he does get extended, he's going to set the ceiling. He's going to reset the market. You're at 31 and change right now with Chris Jones from an APW standpoint at defensive tackle. My guess is that Jaylen Carter will surpass that when that deal does get done, whether that's with the Eagles

or elsewhere. Now, a lot of the reporting has been that teams have called the Eagles. I know that there was like some scuttle butt that when the Micah Parsons situation was happening down in Dallas that Carter's name was floated in terms of in exchange for Micah Parsons.

And so there were some that said, oh, well, would they do the same thing for Max Crosby? And so it's been a lot of stuff in the wind, but nothing concrete. I do think that this is a great situation here in Philadelphia for Jalen Carter. And I think that they know,

like, yeah, this guy is a difference maker, a needle mover, one of the best players along the defensive line. So my guess is that they're going to try and get something done. I would not rule out. You know, if they wanted to explore the idea of a trade, Moro Jumo is also a really good player.

And he's entering his contract here. I find it hard to believe that they would be able to give Jordan Davis the contract that they gave them and then pay Jalen Carter at top of market and then pay market value for Morrow Ojima. Like you're not going to be able to do all three, especially when you're giving out $30 million plus to Quinnon Mitchell. And Lord knows what it is going to be for Cooper Dijim. And there's too many guys for them to pay. It's one of the double-edged sword of drafting the way that they have in the last few years. So when you're on that kind of heater, yeah, there's a lot of young talent that you've got to pay.

but the Jordan Davis contract blew me away. I was surprised by that. Yeah. I mean, we talked about it a little bit yesterday. It's like, Matt, let's rewind a year. I told you on March 8th, 2025, that Jordan Davis was going to have the second highest AIV in the league among interior defensive linemen.

I'm not sure that's a bet you would have taken. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny because as the Eagles are on that run to the Super Bowl, everyone's like, oh, the Georgia dogs and all these guys, and Jordan Davis kind of got clumped in there. And in reality, Because here's the thing. What's tough about Jordan Davis is that he's a very easy player to root for.

He's a great personality. He's a great kid that everybody loves. Everybody around the team, he's beloved in the locker room. The fans love him. So there's a lot to like there. But in reality, had not looked up to that draft slot. It was not a presence on third down. So it was early down presence only.

And he was really kind of a flash player against the run. What we saw this year, and there was all the talk, best shape of his life. And it all started going like midway through the 2024 season, second half of the year. he really kind of turned a corner with the way that he was kind of his preparation and everything and handling his body. Right away, week one, and remember Jalen Carter, you know, spits on Dak Prescott, gets tossed from the game before the first play of the season starts. So right away, Jordan Davis in the spotlight.

And I thought going through the tape that night, you know, that next morning, he was outstanding. And it was like, all right, we have not seen Jordan Davis look like this. And he maintained that throughout the course of the year. Now, still was not really playing all that often on third down, but he had turned into a dominant, truly dominant point of attack player, a great run defender. And so when I'm looking at contract projections, I'm looking at like, all right,

maybe like an uptick from what Travis Jones took from the Baltimore Ravens towards the end of the year. You know, that's not in the 20 plus million range. So when that came across on Saturday, that that was the number that we got for Jordan Davis, I was shocked because you're putting him in the upper echelon. You're putting him,

even if you say like, oh, we're going to count the fifth year option. And so it's not really 26 million, which is what Milton Williams got on the open market. last year. It's actually closer to, you know, 22, 23 and a half, you know, that kind of thing, if you want to play it that way, that's fine. That's still Dexter Lawrence. That's still Dron Payne. Like, you don't know what I mean? Like, that's still

dominant players in a lot of money. Yeah, to me, you can't give him that contract unless you think there's even more meat on the bone that he can take. You know, he can ascend to that level of player. Yeah, there's a lot of talk here in Philly. Like, oh, well, he's taking the torch from Brandon Graham. He's that guy

in the locker room. If I'm BG, I'm like, you didn't pay me that way. Like, you know what to be? I didn't get that level of love financially. So, yeah, it's an interesting contract. We'll see how everybody feels about it here in Philly in a couple of years. Let's put a period at the end of the edge rusher sentence here that we started with, Fran. Quitty pay, $16 million a year to sign with the Raiders. It was funny.

I thought the quitty pay would be this year as Diolo Dangbo, right, coming from the Coles, you know, more flash than traits than production. But young guy, second contract guy as a team bet on him, He gets exactly the same amount that Dao-Dangbo got in free agency last year to sign with the Bears. But having just heard these other deals come down, that doesn't blow me away.

Well, the thing is about last year's free agent market at Edge, and let me, I mean, without looking at it, I'm pretty sure this was the case. Last year, there was no Jalen Phillips, Wei Mafet, or Adafioa, on the edge market. Like, that player didn't exist. Like, Josh Sweat was really the only guy

that kind of fit that bill last year. I mean, then Chase Young re-signed with the Saints, but that was it. I mean, there were no guys that were worth really shelling out money for on the edge last year. This year was better. Like, there was no denying that. If you can make peace with the fact that Tyler Linderbaum did a generational thing, just an insane leap in terms of like value of the contract and A.A.V. I like what the Raiders have done today. Just, I mean, like, I don't know if you can call Linderbom a sensible signing, but I think it's a high floor signing. And then three or four other, like, sensible signings that just make them a more well-rounded football team.

And other than Lenderbom, which that's a huge butt, like the rest, like Eric Stokes, Jalen Naylor, Quitty Pay, these are not insane deals that are going to cripple you. So good, good job, Raiders. I think I like what you did here. Fran, we're going to let you go. Always appreciate it, my friend. We will chat with you again as we get closer to the draft, I'm sure. Best of luck over the next month and a half.

We'll talk to you soon. Later, man. Yep, sounds good, guys. Appreciate it. All right. So one of the first things we talked about today was whether Tua would sign with the Falcons, that has happened. Officially. Officially.

Sources tell the athletic for Diana Rossini that the Atlanta Falcons plan to sign Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua talking about Lowe on a one-year deal. You know, selfishly, I just appreciate getting it out of the way. Because, like, remember when Russ signed with Pittsburgh and he, like, they, like, people saw him on his flight to Pittsburgh. And, like, there were photos of Russ at the airport. and it was this high-stakes drama, except it's not because what are this Russell Wilson-Steeler's even going to be? Let's just get it out of the way. Like, let's get Tua where he needs to be. I'd love to wrap the Kyler thing up, ASAP as well.

We don't need to drag these into being like one-and-two-week contract standoffs. Let's just do it. So obviously that's going to be one of the big things that has to fall tomorrow. We still have no Trey Hendrickson deal as we're four and a half hours into this. Most of the other top free agents, let's pull up the top 15. Can we see the list, maybe? Yeah. That's okay.

I mean, for the most part, I mean, it's been updated with all the guys that have signed, right? I mean, Rashid Walker hasn't gone anywhere yet. Hendrickson, Devin Lloyd, Illumonore. We got the O.A thing in there. Well, we went to Washington, but we still got to change the, a couple of the logos. But the color of the names is correct. So those are some of the bigger names that are still on the board.

Why? Kind of surprised that. We've had enough going on that I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it. But like I'm kind of surprised Devin Lloyd wouldn't be one of the first guys off the board. Like Alec Pierce was gone 90 seconds after this all opened. So for an unquestionably top of his position guy, first round pick, young play, like second contract player, for him to still be sitting there is interesting to me. Worthwhile question.

Obviously we had some big spending teams. Jets spending a ton of money today. The Titans spending just a... The Titans insane amount of money. So let's go through the Titans signings just very quickly before we get out of here. Okay, looking at what the Titans have done. We have four years, $78 million for Wando Robinson, three years $63 million for John Franklin Myers,

three years $60 million for Alante Taylor, three years 45 million for Kodal Flot. And then it feels like just thrown in. It's like me at dinner where I'm just like, I'll take that too. He does do that, by the way. It's great. Daniel Bellinger, three for 24. That's the roasted Brussels in this order.

Yeah, yeah, we'll do the roasted brussels. There's some interesting, like, oh, it's got like a weird, like orange thing on it. Yeah, I'll take that. So we right now, if you're adding it up, 84, this is, I'm going to do some terrible massive. Wait, I got over the cap has it. I'm looking at it. Total guarantees. Total guarantees.

$84 million in total guarantees. For the Titans? That's what it says. No, no, no, no. That's just Alante Taylor and John Franklin Myers. It must not be updated. It's about $170 million dollars in the first. day of free agency.

They do have their total, and I know that, like, if it's not guaranteed, it doesn't really matter. But according to this, so the Panthers have spent the second most total money today. Most of that's obviously. Yeah, they have GMFO is $120 million. So it's $121 million. So their other signing was negligible. They're $130 million behind the amount of money the Titans have given out today.

Great stuff. 259 million total. When you see teams. succeed with approaching things a certain way. I think that you can start talking yourself into it. And like, we said it, the Titans hiring Robert Sala, it was like, this is Mike Vrable correction. We want, are we want Mike Vrable?

We want Robert Sala to be the Patriots version of Mike Brable. And they are spending money like the Patriots did last season heading into year two of that rookie quarterback contract. So Titans have spent a ton. I'm sure there will be other teams that start nipping at their heels as we move it into tomorrow. for now, based on the signings that are rolling in, I think that's all we're going to have.

This is the only day we're doing this, the only day we're going to be live for five-ish hours, but we will be live every day this week, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, at least, over the next three days. We will be here 2 p.m. Central time tomorrow, 3 p.m. Eastern. Fingers crossed that Derek will be here.

I don't want to count my chickens here considering some of the travel issues we had yesterday, but Derek should be here. We'll be wrapping up, each day of free agency, 3 p.m. Eastern, right here at this desk over the next three days. Very much looking forward to that. Really, really, really, really appreciate everyone who stopped by today. I don't even know if I can roll through all of them without missing anybody.

So there we go. Thank you to Bill Barnwell, J.P. Acosta, Jordan Roderig, DeAte Lee, Nate Tice, Ben Soak, Danny Kelly, Connor, or Mina Kimes, Mike Sando, Carmen Vatali, Trevor Sycamma, Sam Schwarzen, Matt Harmon, and Fran Duffy. I love doing it this way. What a cast. Thank you all so much for hopping on. It is a busy day for everybody. Obviously, everyone else is working. And so the fact that people are willing to take time out of a busy day and a busy week to join us, I truly do appreciate it. It's just a fun thing to do. You know, it's a fun thing to cycle through everybody, get their thoughts, be able to respond to this stuff in real time. I mentioned at the beginning of the stream,

truly one of my favorite days of the entire year in the NFL calendar, just because it's a shit show, it's nonstop. There's things flying your way all. It's a blast. Appreciate everybody who spent time with us today. We will be back tomorrow right here, 3 p.m. Eastern. Until then, appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you soon.