The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Free Agency Recap Day 2: Waller to the Giants, Lazard to the Jets, Meyers to the Raiders

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Robert Mays and Nate Tice break down day two of the NFL's legal tampering period. Pass catchers are on the move! Darren Waller is headed to the Giants, Allen Lazard is headed to the Jets, and Jakobi Meyers is going to the Raiders. The guys break down those moves and more.Sponsored by -BetterHelp - Visit betterhelp.com/Mays today to get 10% off your first monthAtlassianMorgan & Morgan - For more information on Morgan & Morgan services, go to forthepeople.com/Mays or dial 1(800) POUND-LAW from your cell phone Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today. It's my good friend Nate Tice. Nate, how you doing, buddy? I was waiting for the chime bells. I know, I'm Pavlov's dogs with that.

Like, oh, okay, here we go. Now we start talking about this. But I'm excited for day two recap, midcap, the electric boogaloo. Let's do this. Let's get into it. More news happened. A lot of stuff trickled out last night. A lot of quote-unquote,

my guys got signed last night. So it was a lot of like just sitting here waiting for this show to talk about some of those guys today. So that's going to be a lot of fun. There's no good way to do this because we don't have a set of eight people. You know, you watch NFL Network and they're rotating between hosts. I think the Ret. Louis was on today.

Take a shifts. Daniel Jeremiah lives there now. And they rotate like the fourth chair. Like it was Symphony Freeland and Scott Piole yesterday. It's kind of going back and forth. All the insiders are like texting on their phone. on a separate screen and they're all at home. It's me and you.

So we can't do that all day. So trying to figure out what time to do this and properly recap everything is not always easy. And so we're going through today and I was like, man, should we have done this earlier? Do we need to wait all day? And then boom, the Darren Waller thing happens. I'm like, yes, a justification of my process. We timed it up right for once. For once we did it right.

No, exactly. I love that. That's why it's the midcap. The midcap's great because you get most of the day done, but the stuff that trickles out we can get to delay. That's exactly right. So it all works out here, and here we are. The Giants pull off a trade for Darren Waller's,

how we're going to kick this off. They trade the 100th pick, a third round pick, the one that they got in the Cadarius Tony trade, which is a nice little bit of synergy. Love that. Waller 31 years older will be 31 years old, has an $11 million-dollar base salary this season. I get it.

I mean, I get it from the giant side of things. We can talk about it, but you're trying to get past catchers. You desperately need them. There aren't a lot of avenues to pass catchers in this offseason specifically, and you're not really giving up a lot. There's no guaranteed money left on his deal. He has an $11 million base this year. You want to restructure that and free up even more and just kind of push the rest out

because you can move on after the season without much penalty anyway. I get it. He's been hurt a lot over the last couple seasons. I think that's obviously why the price tag is so low. on a guy who has produced like Darren Waller, but worthwhile dice role for the Giants who are desperately need of people who can make some plays in the passing game.

Yeah, the term, pass catcher. I think that's something we're going to emphasize over and over again this offseason because that's really what it is. It's building a group of pass catchers, not just wide receivers, and they need them. Last year, they're trotting out fourth-round pick,

Daniel Bellinger, and who's fine? I actually like him. I was going to talk about Daniel Bellinger as part of this conversation. I think having both of them is, I like that. I like it because he can do a little bit of both. And I believe he's a Vegas guy, actually, originally.

So I, no, I like that. That room becomes, it's nice going, but you never really want to live a rookie fourth-round pick at a position. Like the bear is having a fifth-round pick at left tackle. Not really how you want to live, but even if they outperform expectations, it's still nice. Totally makes sense for them. Like you said, they can get out of it if, you know, injury woes hit again or they just

want to keep them around. Price is more than fair. about it. Darren Waller is a dynamic pass catcher. He is a true mismatch at the titan position. He is a, you know, used to be a wide receiver. And that's how he plays. You know, blocking is, I'll say okay at best. That's not his strength, but you're paying him to catch passes. And this team needs it makes total sense for them. And of course, with the Raiders moves, it makes sense from their end as well. So, yeah, I like this a lot for the Giants. You say it makes sense for the Raiders. What do you make of what the Raiders are doing right now

with their plan on offense? I tweeted this. I kind of want to see everything finish before I waste a lot of brainpower and what the Raiders are doing right now. But I think I don't want to like kind of do you want to just talk real quick with the Jacoby Myers thing? Yeah, I think that dovetels nicely with this. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

I think the Jacoby Myers Hunter Renfro thing. I actually, Jacoby is useful still as an outside receiver. About half and half over the last three years. If you look at the way his snaps have been distributed. 50. Yep. And base, he was there out. He's their Z.

You know, when they had two receivers on the field, with the Patriots do a lot. But when they got to 11, he was their slot guy. That's kind of how they used them. They liked having a Parker on the outside. When Kendrick Bourne was playing for them, they kind of intermixed these two, which is kind of similar how I picture with Renfro. Renfro's not great from the outside. He's actually pretty bad on the outside.

He's a slot only receiver, very good at it. Myers, Jacoby Myers, he was fifth and first down per outside route last year and fifth in yards per route run on the outside. last year. Smaller sample size, but still, he's useful and he's very, very good on third and fourth down inside or outside. So he's the Z. Super useful number two type that can kick in inside when you need him. Explain how the Z is different than a slot receiver. Yeah. Okay, see, when you're in, when you have two wide receivers on the field, your X is the lone receiver. That is the split end. The Z is the flanker. So he'll go to the tight end side. He's more of your move guy. He can come

inside the block a little bit more. That guy is really going to be more of your zone underneath type receiver traditionally. A X as your true ball winner runs the full route tree because they have a lot more one-on-one situations. Sounds like Devante Adams. Devante Adams is the epitome of an X receiver. That is exactly who you picture in that role. A Z is going to do more of the dirty work stuff, be more of an auxiliary pass catcher. Think of him as more of the zone beater working with the tight end and maybe a fullback or another tight end or receiver coming to his side. So that's what a Z is. Always going to fall the tight end side. And I think that's what he is. He's an ideal Number two, useful Z.

And with Renfro, if he's still there, we'll see. But I think those two can really, they can work together because just, they're both useful in their roles. When they went out and signed Jacoby Myers, it's obviously before the Darren Waller trade had happened. You think, oh, that's a lot of resources that are tied up in your past catchers. And that meant that another domino was going to fall. The other shoe was going to drop.

Whatever mixed metaphor you want to use in this situation was going to happen. And that we find out it is the Darren Waller trade. So now you have the Raiders kind of remaking the offense in Josh McDaniels' image, right? Like it's important. Like, these are my guys now. I'm going to make this happen when these are my guys. And we'll see what that version of it looks like. They play without Darwalla from most of last season.

You know, it's not like he was a key part of who they were offensively. So they've already kind of become accustomed under the McDaniels regime to what life looks like without him. But now we got Jacobi Myers, Devante Adams, and we'll see about Hunter Renfro as kind of the building block. of this passing game. Apparently, our Vic Tafer was reporting that Darren Waller was not happy that Josh McDaniels leaked the news about his wedding to reporters at the Combine to Kelsey Plum. Whoops. If they choose to have children, I don't assume that everyone does.

If they do, my goodness, are those kids going to be athletic. It's, I don't know how athletic Lauren is, but Casey's not an athlete. My kids are not exactly going to be Division I caliber prototypes, but those kids are going to be some real athletes that they have together. Lauren's 5-9, 5-10, and it's not a coincidence that our son right now is 100th percentile height. I haven't said this on the pod. I know I've told several friends about this, but the last time we had his checkup, whatever it was, two or three months, they did the height, weight, and head-size percentile.

And weight, he was 92nd percentile weight, but then height, they just had an arrow pointing up, because he maxed out the scale. So he's off the chart. And so my dad's six-eight. So I'm 6'5. My wife's 510 and her uncles are all 6'4. Probably going to have some height running with my son, Jack. So yeah, hopefully power forwards in his future.

His hand's going to be in the dirt when he plays football. I know that. I don't think there's a quarterback in his future if he plays football. Also, really quick, though, I think this is kind of my bow on this, on my Raiders kind of past catcher's thoughts. Myers makes sense coming from the Patriots as well, but just makes sense with the Patriots insistence of having a fullback on the field or two tight ends on the field.

Myers makes more sense for that offense than Hunter Renfro does. And not saying anything, not knocking Hunter Renfro, he's a very useful player, a good, good slot player legitimately. But Myers makes more sense for this offense than Renfro does. So thankfully, our producer Alex dropped this end, a team trading for Hunter Renfro after Friday when her in a two-year $19 million deal. It's palatable. If they really are, if he's not in their plans,

and you're, again, looking for past catching options in a world where there aren't many of them, I think it's worth sniffing around for one of these teams. One more Giants notes before we move on. Bobby O'Caricay to the Giants four years, $40 million, $22 million guaranteed. They needed linebacker help. We talked about a lot of different options that could end up there. A little richer than some of the other guys in this group. We talked about the Jermaine Pratt deal yesterday, the T.J. Edwards deal,

you know, with Alex Singleton, who I think is a step down from these guys, but also signed an extension with the Broncos. So a pretty big deal. but they had a huge hole to fill in the middle of their defense. Yeah, there's going to be a couple signings that we talked about today. That's like a team had a hole and they paid a premium because probably the agent knew about that hole. And it was like, hey, you guys need to fill this, right? And let's bump up that price a little bit.

And that's what this feels like. I think the Pratt tier is exactly where Carricket is. Also, yeah, it's an overpay for filling a hole. They needed it. He's a useful player, though. I liked him. He had a good year last year. Actually, a lot of Colts defenders had really good years last year.

as we've talked about before, but I like this one. They need it. They need guys that can just shore up the run game and pick up their, in a very aggressive defense. They need a guy that can do his job as far as being a sound tackle or knows assignments and all that, especially for a very chaotic type of defense. So I like it. But yeah, it isn't overpay.

I think we're not kind of breaking any new news with that comment. When I get into my bargaining stage about the Tremaine Edmunds deal later, we can go revisit the Bobby O'Carkey thing. But I'm going to talk about that in another part of the podcast. All right. Moving on here. I know we're going to talk about. That's really funny.

All right. So last season, there was news that Darren Waller was a potential guy to get traded to the Packers. They had been looking at him and stiffing around him as a past catching option for a team that needed them. That did not happen. But there are some guys that seems like they might be headed to the Aaron Rogers. Like, well, what a transition that was? There are some guys who used to be Packers past catchers who might be on the move. Adam Schaefter reporting this morning that the Jets have interest in signing Alan Luzard

and potentially might have interest in signing Randall Cobb. Diana Rusini follows that report a little bit later today by saying that Aaron Rogers has requested or put in a word with the wish list that he would like the Jets to target and acquire, says Diana. It includes Randall Cobb, Alan Zard, Mercedes, Lewis, and O'Dell Beckham, Jr. Unbelievable, man. And all he did was complain about his past catchers last year. And he was like, you know what? Copy and paste. What's cut and paste those pass catchers and bring him into New York?

The Lizard thing is fine. If they're going to move on from Corey Davis, that's fine. Okay? Totally understand that. Yep. And you need kind of that dirty work guy. He's going to do a lot of blocking for you that Garrett Wilson and Elijah Moore aren't going to do. Fine.

that's justifiable. There is no justifiable reason for wanting to go get Randall Cobb in the year 23 unless it is a way to appease the quarterback that you're going after right now. I understand this. They are painted so far into a corner that they essentially have to do this because they need Aaron Rogers at this stage. I just think it's hilarious. I just think it is objectively funny as hell that this is happening right now.

They're out in the open. My joke was that people can see you. But have some shame. Like, this is not great. I know. No one looks good here. Even like Mercedes Lewis. No one looks good.

No one looks good in this. No one. The Chets don't look good. Rogers looks awful. Awful. It's just a bad situation for everybody involved. Even his guy McAfee's calling him a hippie. Like, you know, it's just everything.

It's just no one looks good out of this. Like, like even the Mercedes-Lewis stuff. Everyone knows what Mercedes-Lews is at this point in time. He's just a dominant Y-blocking tight end that does really nothing in the ass-catching game. But the Jets signed two tight ends to decent money deals last year. Last year. Two of them.

That both are blockers. That both are like solid blocking types. Why type tight ends? So, okay, that kind of, even if you want that, it's like, okay, how are we going to make this fit? Like you're talking about, if he just said Luzard, I'd be like, okay, that makes sense. Lizard's very useful.

He's hitting the prime of his career. He's going to make money anyways. I get that. That is a wish list. All these other guys, man, it is the, are you? People can see you. are you actually asking for this? And honestly, they're leaning this way.

If I were another team, I'd be calling about Corey Davis. They might just cut them anyways. I assume they will. Yeah, yeah. But I'd be looking to see, just to see if you can maybe, you know, cheat the waiver wire a little bit. But yeah, this is a, it's funny. This is just a very, very funny situation.

That's the only way you can put it. Objectively, the funniest possible outcome here. It is. Is that he is doing this just as a way to say, like, I wonder what they would do. And then they do it all. And he's just like, eh,

sorry, I'm actually, I'm actually good. That, that would be, if that happened, I mean, I can't even imagine

what the response would be, but that is objectively the funniest possible time when. Remember the TV show and MTV like my super sweet 16? I do. That's what this feels like. That's what this feels like.

It's just some kids. I wish I could think of a specific demand from one of those awful children to compare this to. I can't, though. The one that's vivid to me is one kid wanted a pit bull at,

at their, at their 16th birthday. I thought you met A Pitbull for a second. Pit bull. Pit bull, actual pit bull. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, that's the one that sticks out to my mind the most is somebody wanting that. I always joke with Casey.

She's from Miami that the pit bull. Any Pipple song is like the Miami National Anthem. The kid was from Miami, by the way. That's how it goes. When you're in Miami, pit bull is the most important thing you can have of your Street 16. Rogers wants a pony in the form of Randall Cobb. That's where we're at right now.

Or the blueberry girl from Willie Walker factory. Yeah. He's going to turn it to a blueberry once it's all said and done. That's what he wants. That's exactly this character right now. I don't know how far we want to get into this. I just felt it was worth addressing because it did a little hubbub on Twitter about it. Lamar responding to the Adam Schaefter TV report yesterday that he had turned down the $200 million

guaranteed from the Ravens. Omar just tweeted three years, $133 million fully guaranteed, and I need an 8. agent, which I don't know. So Schaefter in that report was talking about how there was $133 fully guaranteed at signing with a couple more little escalators in time that could go to $200 million guaranteed. I don't really know what this means. My first thought is something we talked about with the teams that might be going after Lamar Jackson is a short-term deal that's fully guaranteed a possibility.

Because if what you're scared off is, what you're scared off from is the fourth and fifth years we get deeper into the deal that being guaranteed for a guy that's had some injury issues would he do a fully guaranteed deal that was potentially a shorter term deal but i don't know if that's necessarily what he's referring to here right i don't like i don't like doing cryptic tweet analysis but it's just something that happened today that i felt like we should talk about a little bit yeah and if you if it were if it were that three years 1033 million fully guaranteed comes in about 44 mil and change a year to sean watson got five-year deal about 46 mil a year guaranteed So you're getting into that range.

But it's, you know, like it's three years. You know, players want long-term commitments to themselves, and I get that. But I see, I go the other way. If I'm Lamar, you do the three-year fully guaranteed deal. And then he's 29. Kirk Cousins did that. Look at what has happened with Kirk Cousins over the last five years. Because when you do the three-year deal, teams find, and that's why I don't think the Ravens

specifically would want to do something like that. Because when you do the three-year deal, you don't have many. avenues out of that. Again, look at what the Vikings have had to do. They've had to keep extending their quarterback in order to keep pushing open the window because they can't go anywhere else with the funny money on the deal. Like if you want to throw some void years on there potentially, but you're operating with a lot of leverage if you do short-term expensive deals as a quarterback.

Kirk Cousins, again, is really the only one who's done this. Look at how much money Kurt Cousins has made over the last five years. Like I don't even if I understand one in the security long term, especially if your guy like Lamar, who's been banged up a little bit. But I still think that you can really wield your negotiating power with these short term deals as a quarterback. So if that ends up being one of the outcomes, I don't think it's the worst outcome for him. And you're betting on yourself. Like so you just say, hey, I'll stay healthy. As a quarterback, that is a decent bet.

It is. It's always going to be the most prized position and the most highly paid position. And if he, say he just played the three years and plays 15 games a year the next three years. Okay, so 45 games, yada, yada, yada. He's 29 years old and then he can cash in again. Like, do you think he can get another three year fully guaranteed deal? Like when the market is going up and the cap's going up and all that, like it's not the worst bet to make on yourself as a quarterback. I love your Kirk Cousins comparison because no quarterback bet on themselves more than Kirk Cousins.

Kirk Cousins also got a fully guaranteed deal. Yeah. Right. We forget this. Kirk Cousins got a three year fully guaranteed. guaranteed deal. This is just a different tier of money for a different tier of quarterback. Correct. It's so funny, we've done so many rounds and rounds about this with Lamar. And for so long, for so many months and months and months, I didn't really engage with it in a

significant way because I just assumed he'd be back in Baltimore. Like, what is the simplest explanation with these sort of conversations? It's that he will just be back with the team because teams don't let quarterbacks of this caliber just walk out the door. And I think two first round picks is equivalent of letting him walk out the door, even if you're getting something. And now I've kind of come all the way back around to that thinking. It's like, I just think he's going to end up back in Baltimore.

I think this is just them kind of letting him explore the market in order to get another team to potentially negotiate for them or to kind of set what the market is. I understand it as a negotiating tactic, but I just have come back to this idea that I just think that the Ravens do what they need to do to get him back. And I think there's, you know, of course, through any negotiation period, there's going to be some animosity between Lamar and the Ravens, but I don't think it's broken. It doesn't see. It could be much worse based on everything is gone. Yes. Like, what's going on in public and the tenor of the discussion and the discourse from both sides is not nearly as antagonistic as it tends to be in these situations?

Well, remember, Cousins with Washington was terrible by the end. I mean, the double tag and everything. Oh, my God. Like, they weren't even talking to each other. So that's a little bit of the difference with this. And I think that's how I've always assumed that he would just go back to the Ravens because I just couldn't fathom a team letting a guy like him go. Like, just like you said, a top eightish, 10ish quarterback in the prime of his career. Like, you know, he's 26 and already has proven what he has done in this league.

So, yeah, I think that's how I've always operated. I just can't, I can't picture it. I just think they just had to go through a lot of different hoops because of the, unique situation that that is and what a unique player is. And he's gone about this in a way where he's trying to reset the way that these contracts work. And he's tried to, again, exert every bit of leverage that he has because of the unique position that he's in.

And I respect that. Very few guys have been willing to push it all the way. And he has pushed it all the way. And now we're seeing what that feels like. But again, I don't think it's gotten nearly as nasty as it might in another circumstance with a different organization that would be more willing to kind of leak things and trash him and with a guy who maybe it's a little less, I don't know, amicable than Lamar when it comes to this kind of stuff, I guess I would describe it. It could have been a lot of uglier.

Yes, it could have been a lot of uglier, I guess is how I'd say. All right. Next one here. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers re-signed Jamel Dean, according to Ian Rappaport. Four years, $52 million, $26 million guaranteed. I just didn't anticipate this even being an option based on how much cap gymnastics they were having to do, all the guys that they were having to either release in Donovan Smith's case or restructure with a bunch of those other guys, just felt like he was probably on the way out. I'm not sure I totally get the plan right now,

but I can understand looking at a market for Jamaldean at $13 million a year and just saying, that's a good player. Whatever our plan is over the next two or three years, that's a good player at a decent price. That benefits us. Yep. And it's not like he's 29. He's 26.

You're paying him right before he corners drop off a cliff. I think as people are realizing the 30 year old corners. The Pucks quietly have a fantastic cornerback pairing that they have under contract. They've got good players. They've got good players. I know they're such a fascinating team. They've nailed a lot of drafts in the last half decade ever since they took a kicker in the second round.

Like they've been on a run since then. So I think this is a very fair deal. it's just like you said, it's a weird, I don't know what their plan is, I don't know what the path they're trying to make, how much they're trying to compete, because they do have a talented roster. And then they, you know, they make trades, like, you know, getting rid of Shaq Mason, which we'll get into. But it's, I just, it's, it's interesting. I understand why want to pay a good player because why not? These guys are hard to find. Why not keep our two very talented cornerbacks under under contract for a few more years? Looking at their 2024 cap situation. And it's actually not that terrible.

You know, Mike Evans is not our contract after this season. That's right. You know, they've got some big cap numbers because of restructures that they've done. You know, Shaq Barrett, Chris Godwin, both up over 23, $24 million. Carlton Davis is at 20. Vidae is at 21. Ryan Nelson's pretty high. Now they have Dean on there.

They could potentially move on from Russell Gage after this year. It kind of reminds me, we're going to talk about them in a second. Kind of how the Dolphins cap is structured, where you have these guys that just have monster deals, you know, 20, 25 million up to 28 million, but they don't have any mid-tier players on the cap. So it's not that bad. Like, they can afford it and they still have some flexibility. So I don't know what the quarterback plan is going to be as part of this, but the bucks

do have more flexibility into like the 20, 24 season than you might anticipate. It's got to keep coming back to it. These are like worthwhile players to pay, you know, like. A lot of them are young. Yeah. They are still 29. God's 28. Carlton Davis is 28.

Jamel Dean's 28 or will be in 20. These are all in 2024 ages. Yeah. So yeah, man. Excuse me. Godwin's 27. Carlton Davis is 27. All these guys are still in the prime of their careers.

Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know what the off ramp is. I don't know what the quarterback solution is to kind of bring it all together. But their financial circumstances are not as bad over a two-year period. it is you might think they are. They could quickly microwave themselves back to relevancy. Like they could,

I think that's exactly what they're trying to do, right? Yeah. When you look at this signing, that is the signal that it sends to me. Yes, especially with the NFC right now. The NFC is so wide open. It really is. And so I can, I can see how teams talk themselves into it. I really can.

When you look at the AFC bloodbath and then you look at the AFC, it's like, we can get hot. If we, if the stars align, we can do this. So I can see how they talk themselves back into it. Like, that's why I, you know, if I privately grade this, I liked it. Like I did. I understand it. Like it's a hard position to find players and he's proven himself and he's only getting

better. So I understand why to lock him down. What the quarterback plan would look like next year. If you sign Baker or whoever they end up getting to a one year deal, I think that becomes the question. And can you be in a spot where you make a trade up for somebody? But how they end up filling that position with some of these other guys is obviously going to be the huge question.

The other kind of big picture thing I wanted to ask you about this, I feel like, the cornerback market is cooling down a little bit. But who's been payable, you know? Well, so the guys that have been really paid at the top of the market are the guys that have been getting extensions from their own teams. Okay. So Jair is at the top of it right now. Denzo Ward was there.

And I think both of those guys were likely negotiating off of the Jalen Ramsey deal, which I think makes a lot of sense. So it was up to that $20 million a year range. But we, in the past, we, to see guys getting to free agency and still getting paid in that general range, even if they weren't that type of player. The guy that comes to mind for me very quickly is like Trumane Johnson, right? And he was working off of two tags.

So I think that's a higher starting point. But even when the contract that J.C. Jackson signed last year was I still think about $16 million a year and a little bit less than some people expected. And now that top of the market cornerback deals in this year's group is even lower than that. I mean, $13 million a year for a guy like Jamal Dean. It didn't used to be that much of a discount if you end up hitting free agency. And I wonder if teams around the league are looking at that non-elite group of corners, the guys that are a step down from there, just saying,

this is more about having a player that we can count on in that position rather than paying up for an elite. guy. Right. Well, and then like Tray White got paid and got hurt. Like, and that, that's another, there's such a, there is so much volatility. Yep. With, with, with cornerback play. And again, just being kind of a weak link structure back there. I wonder if teams are kind of getting a little bit smarter about that with how they're allocating resources on their back end. And maybe I'm reading too much into that. Yeah. That's kind of what it feels like. I think maybe the, the set, like you said, the second tier market, I think has solidified that that, that, hey, we don't need to, like, overpay for a number two or overpay for a low end number one or what could be a low end number one.

I think that's really what it is. I just think the top top end, what I have in my head who are the top guys, haven't gotten paid yet, you know, like the Certans, the Terrell's, like the next kind of crop. I think what will happen with those guys, those guys get paid by their teams. They'll just top the Jaya contract in the same way that that continues to happen. But you're saying teams like guys switching teams or guys kind of coming up and potentially switching teams kind of thing, right? I think it really is like a hard line between the.

elite guys. So let's say there are, at any given time in the NFL, like, six to eight of those, if we're being generous. Yeah. I was going to say five. Yeah. I mean, but if you look at the contracts that have been handed out right now, that Jair is at the top. Denzel Ward is in there. He also got that deal to J-Wan Ramsey, Trey White. Those are the guys that are at the top of it. And I think there's a significant step down. So let's say that they're five at any given time. And that when J-Wan-Ramsie ages out of that in two years, Patrick Sertan will age into it. So if there's like that, like Mount Rushmore-esque, like five-person table, if you're not sitting at that table,

it seems like teams are less willing to pay for a premium at that position right now. It's like $5 million per tier. That's kind of what it's like breaks down to about. Yeah, I mean, $5, $6 million per. That actually just feels right, actually. Kind of like you sit and think about it for every position, really. We'll talk about defense aligned later in the show, but that kind of just feels like the tier break or the difference between those guys.

Here's the group, okay? So Jair, Denzo Ward, J-1 Ramsey, Marshawn Latimore. Oh, yeah, yep. Marlon Humphrey. Okay, are the guys, like, up near $20 million a year. And then the step down from there is Xavier, Zavian Howard is at 18 million, Trey White's at 17 million, Darius Slay's at 16.7, but he signed that a couple of years ago. Like, for example, the Byron Jones deal that he signed in 2020 for 16.5 million dollars a year,

teams aren't giving out that version of the deal in free agency. Jay C. Jackson got 16 and a half two years later. Yeah. Two years after Byron Jones got that. I remember we were shocked about Carlton Davis and J.C. Jackson's contracts last year. They got a little bit less. Yeah, we thought that this year is kind of a continuation of that.

Charverius Ward, for example, right? So Charverius Ward and Jamel Dean got very similar deals. 13.5 million a year for Charvarius Ward, 13 million for Jamel Dean. and that is a significant step down from the top of the market. And that reflects what those players are. But often when you get to free agency, that gap in who you actually are gets shrunk. Because teams are overpaying. And that doesn't seem to be happening as much anymore.

I'm curious, too, is this is what everybody's running now on defense. You got a lot of cover two to the field. So you're kind of going, hey, we don't need, we need kind of more of a solid player than a guy that's going to lock down a guy one-on-one. We don't have a lot of Seahawk defenses to cover three defenses out there where you have guys living on the outside one-on-one over and over. So I wonder if that's too where coaches are coming in and go like, we don't need to pay these guys and personnel guys are reflecting that. So I'm curious about that too. The award signing was like that that's the ideal version.

You're paying for a guy that's a true outside guy that makes a living for you high end number two. He played outstanding this year, matches a personality and everything. And that's what, 13 and a half million? That feels very right to me in kind of this new landscape. So I'm curious if that's what it is, too, is that coaches are kind of emphasized, it's like, we can game this up a little bit. Like, yeah, we want a guy to really help our lives out. But if we can get a guy that's more just like a fine, useful player, we'll find a use for him in how we call the defense. So if this is the comparison that I think is worthwhile and it's worth making, if you look at like the defensive tackle market, okay?

Yeah, yeah. So let's go back five years to 2018. This is a crude way of doing this, but just by Aav. the guys from like 10 to 15 in the defensive tackle market were making 12 million 12 million 10 and a half 10 and a half 10.2. That's like that's 12 to 15 at defensive tackle. At corner, it was essentially the same price. Okay. The guys from 12, 12, 12, 11, 10 and a half 10.2.

It's almost the exact same money. Yeah. Now your Shelt your dream out Joneses are getting $17 million a year where your Jamel Dien's are in $13 million a year. So I think that the defensive tackle market at that stage where it's the step down from the elite guys is growing where the cornerback market is trailing off a little bit. Yeah.

That's what it feels like to me. It's just a amount of good players too. Sure. That also is an influence on it. But no, I think there is a, I'll pat ourselves on the back. I think we haven't talked about this for two, almost three years since we started this podcast is that is that the interior line play matters. now if teams want to play in lighter boxes.

So I think a lot of that matters. It's just how the philosophy of all these teams and what they think they need. There was a stretch for five, six, seven years where, I mean, past rushing is always going to be a priority. I think these guys that are, teams are not just looking at guys that have seven sacks, nine sacks, 11 sacks. They're just not looking. They see a guy with six and a half sacks.

And they go, well, he does a lot of other shit in the run game and he makes it useful. He plays a lot of stuff. I think teams have gotten smarter about what is useful for their defenses and what they require them to do. But I think just it's the new world of it and also just it's a little bit of everything. Little column A, little column B. A lot of players that deserve to get paid and also the philosophy of defenses as far as up front, especially the interior D line.

Well, let's talk about some interior defense line. Hell yeah. Paid. Okay. The Brown's adding some bulk to their defense right now. Dalvin Tomlinson. They pay for it. Four years, 57 million with 27.5 million dollars guaranteed.

Again, talk about just outside that top tier pay at the business. position, that's right below like what Cam Hayward got. That deal is like three years old now, so it's a little bit outdated. But that's still a real chunk of change for a guy who isn't dominant as a pass rusher. He can give you something on all three downs, but that's not the basis of his game. Yeah. I understand the thought process and the need. It was a quite an overpay in my estimation, quite an overpay. This is basically the DJ Reader contract that the Bengals gave in 2020. Both four years.

That was $50 million. Yeah. That very, this is kind of the inflation from that number. Uh, Tomlinson's a fine player. I've always kind of thought he's a little overrated,

but he's fine. This just feels like one of those. We didn't, we haven't had this. This was sending a signal about what we do. That's exact. That's same with the, the Giants signing a linebacker and a little overpay there.

But it's, but like just compare. Rakeem Nunez Drozh, who I talked about, I really like that signing for the Giants. Three years, 12 million, seven million guaranteed. He's a couple years old.

They both play about 50% of their snaps. They both have the same role. Three tag can move inside, can anywhere in the interior. They are both defensive plugger, run pluggers first. That's where the disconnect, I think, is here. I think they're in the same tier of player. You know, like maybe Tomlinson's slightly better, but the difference in money is ridiculous that Tomlinson's getting 20 million more.

So that's where I think this is a signal. I understand it, but there's a huge, huge overpay. Yes, this role, I just talked about how interior defense line is very important. important. But for what this type of player is, I think you can find cheaper value for this. It's like paying a lot of money for a closer in baseball. You can kind of find guys. Yes, the good ones are good, but you can kind of find guys that are way, way under market price. So that's what it feels like to me. What do you think Deshaun Watson's cat pit is in 2024? Oh, uh, oh, 20204. Is that like 60 million? 64 million. 64. Yeah. I mean, they're just going to keep on. Oh, yeah. Oh, my,

God, when you see the void ears and when it kicks in, it's, it's, it's ridiculous. How much money it's going to be. It's someone else's problem, I think. What's that that happens at the end of the run? We're going to talk about this when we get to the Michael Thomas contract, but it's just the way that the Saints are doing it. And the deep respect that I have for that mindset. One more Brown signing, though, one that I think you're going to like a little bit more. Yes, I am.

Three years, $19 million with $12 million guaranteed for Obo Okoronquo. Love this. I love this so much. I love this so much. I think this is a perfect, perfect level signing. How much he got, 12 million guaranteed,

three years of a row. It's going to probably two year, six-milled-ish deal. I love this. More than fair for what he is. Basically, what the Seahs gave

Nahuosu last year, kind of the same kind of candidate. Their mill stop, both of the millssept. This is less, though, isn't it? It's very comparable. I didn't write that in numbers, but I just kind of made that in my notes.

It's comparable. But you're paying him because he's a hell of a pass rusher. He's passable. He's improved, but he's passable against the run, but that's why you cite Tomlinson. But I love this fit. This is a perfect type of guy they have with Miles Garrett. Let these two just tee off on guys.

Jim Schwartz is going to let him get wide, pin his ears back and go. And this is, yeah, he's going to be okay against the run. He kind of just holds a fort. You're hopefully having another guy that can play rundown snaps for you on the outside. Man, when you get into second along and third downs, just let him go. I think this is a great, great signing, especially for what they need, adds a lot of juice to their pass rushing. Judavian Clowny is a useful player, but he's like a run first player, which is so funny compared to what he came into the league.

This is a true pass rushing edge. But I think that's what that's their thinking here, is they think about how all the pieces are fitting together. You're going to have Tomlinson as that plugger. We now can get a little bit more pass rush juice opposite Miles Garrett, where teams have to worry about multiple guys. Chedevi and Clowney's production numbers as a pass rusher, especially two years ago, were very good because he's an advantageous situations all the time.

Yeah. And so having a guy who's got a little bit more pop purely as a pass rusher, putting him in those advantageous situations and having defensive tackles that can just eat more blocks up there, I think makes sense as a general plan. I love this. Any four down kind of base front team, which Jim Schwartz is, the Brown's defense coordinator, that's who I wanted Obo to go with. And so this was, I thought this was perfect as far as team, situation, role, player, really liked the signing. One of my favorites probably of this whole entire offseason process. Seriously. Alex, can you pull up the comment here from Jusasa this last one? I think it's a really good thought. I want to talk about it here in a second. So I think this is exactly what we're getting to. The cornerback versus defensive tackle isn't that also a situation where teams can hide cornerbacks with scheme while a defensive pass rush or more of an individual skill

where coaching has less influence? Yes. Because with the corner, it's part of a system. You are part of a group. It's part of an overall plan where a defensive tackle, you have an impact on the game independent of everything else that's happening around you. I think that's kind of the general point that we were trying to make. But that's very well articulated. So thank you very much for saying. Yeah, it's scheme proof. Like, the defense lines can be more super. That's, that's, that's all the

discussion that we have about how, like, pressure rates go from travel with the player. Because not much difference to usually in what you're doing, you know, like, you're rushing the pass or you're stopping the run. Those techniques kind of carry over from team to team. But a coverage scheme can wildly be different from what you're asked to do as J.C. Jackson. That's a number one example. All right. Let's stick with the defensive line here. Marcus Davenport gets a one-year $13 million deal from the Vikings,

according to Ian Rappaport, Mike Airfo, and Tom Palisero. It's a group effort. It's like a Beatles song. This is a good written by a lot of guys. What do you think about this? I love the player. It's just, it's like a one-year flyer, but I don't know what the Vikings are doing. It's interesting to me.

I'm trying to figure out what the plan is here. I'm not, that's not, I don't know what the Vikings are doing. I'm not saying like, oh my God, this is the stupidest move I ever seen. I actually think it's a smart move. It's a great move. So let's say in this hypothetical, they move on from Zadarius Smith, okay? They would save about $12 million by cutting or trading Zadirio Smith. That seems like a nice coincidence.

So it's a one-for-one swap, okay? Zadarius Smith is 31. He had an injury history before he got to Minnesota, even if he stayed relatively healthy, especially for the first half of last season. Marcus Davenport has an injury history, but he's 26 years old. So you're replacing a 31-year-old Zadaria Smith with a 26-year-old Marcus Davenport, and on the off chance he hits, now you could potentially retain him and he can be part of your core moving forward.

What that core looks like is kind of difficult to define because they're walking a tightrope here between trying to compete but also trying to maintain flexibility beyond this season and the way that they can build the roster. I think that's perfectly expressed by what just happened with Kirk Cousins. They converted about $16 million of Kirk Cousins. I assume roster bonus that's due this Friday into a signing bonus and free him $16 million in cap space. They did not extend him. He had two void years remaining on his deal so that conversion will be prorated over those final two years.

They kick the can down the road a little bit. It's going to cost them something to move on from him after this year. but they are not tying themselves into him. Okay? So they're trying to live in both of these worlds. Yeah. Where they're trying to be competitive this year, but they're also trying to make sure that into next season,

they can kind of remake this thing in the way that they see fit. It's a difficult balance to strike. It is. It's what happens when you win 13 games, but you didn't really have a team that you think you can build on after winning 13 games. So what Quasio do Femencea and Kevin O'Connell are trying to do here, I sympathize with it,

because it's not easy. I do think that Marcus Davenport is kind of an interesting piece of data as part of that pursuit. It's for a guy that's a one-year deal for a guy that's been injured throughout his history, but it has been productive, and it kind of feels right for a team that is trying to talk out both sides of their mouth. Hey, we're productive, but it's only a one-year-a-deal. There's a per- there's no downside, right? There is not.

If it hits, then as you kind of go into your next era next season, he can be a part of that plan if you want him to be. A team with Kirk Cousins and Justin Jefferson, even if they have other holes on the roster, is not a tanking pair. You know what I mean? Like it's a really hard. They built the off ramp. We use that term off ramp and I really like when you use it. It's not just you, but just the general term.

But I really like that because, but that's what they did. They're building another avenue that they can go down, especially for next year. That's what it seems like to me. It's tough. The Vikings are very difficult to talk about because you have to read between the lines with their moves. And that that's really what it is because I think that. they really are trying to do two things at once, not in a bad way, but trying to just live in two worlds at the same time. And it's just really, really difficult to do right.

Yeah, I don't know exactly what the cap gymnastics, funny money situation is going to have to be with cousins. Right now he has $28.5 million in dead money after this season. I don't know if they make him like a post-June first cut. If they can spread that out, I think that they can. So just something to keep an eye on. But after this year, I mean, you assume that Harrison Smith is gone, he'll be 35. Zedarius Smith will be gone. I assume, Alvin Cook will be gone. They can save a ton of money if they move on from him. So now, going into next season, you really don't have that many guys on the roster that you've committed to. Brian O'Neill is somebody that was on an extension from a previous regime, is still a

29-year-old tackle. But other than that, I mean, it's a lot of the young guys that you've drafted and then guys potentially that you'd want to extend. You know, Justin Jefferson is, I believe he'll be on his fifth-year option at that point, but they really do have that flexibility. heading into next year. I think that was obviously important to them rather than extending cousins again and seeing what we can squeeze out of this. I really do think they want to be able to turn the page here sooner rather than later. That's what it is. Yep, that's exactly it. I like that. You just broke it down right there. Like O'Neill's a fine player, a good solid starter on the right side and Jefferson's going to get paid, but then that's the thing. They're not

tied to anybody. They're not pot committed to anybody else. And I think that's for a team that's going to want to revamp their whole roster probably pretty soon. Makes a lot of sense of what they're trying to do. Hockinson will also be up, so he'll be looking for an extension. I think after that trade, that's definitely something you want to do. And they're looking to move to Alvin Cook, too, I think, right? That's been room in a whole bunch of times. I think that they have like five, six guys.

It's like, okay, these are the guys that we've committed to outside of the draft picks that we've already made. And that's going to be how we shape this thing moving forward. The question, again, where does the quarterback come? How do they find it? What does that plan look like in a post-Cirk-Cousin's world? But I think this off-season and the moves that they've made, and I think we'll continue to make, again, we'll continue to make.

again we'll see what happens with smith the smith's harrison and zadarius and dalvin cook the moves that they've made and will continue to make i think have signaled to me that they are ready and the clock started to get to that post courthouss world here sooner rather than later they made a calendar they've it's 364 days until until they have to make the next move i think i think that's exactly how to sum it up all right couple more big money signings here we talked about this a little bit earlier. Dremont Jones going to Seattle, three years, $51 million, $30 million guaranteed. Seahawks cutting Shelby Harris. He would have been about $10 or so million against the cap. I think they saved like $9 million by cutting him. Dremont Jones in year one will count $10 million against

the cap. So it's essentially just swapping out Shelby Harris, who is getting into his 30s for Draymont Jones, who is 26 years old. Yeah. And Shelby Harris was another plugger type. Gets his hands on a lot of balls. Great field goal blocker as well. Like blocking field goal is not like field goal block team. He's not like the wing out there, the swinging gate. But I love this. I thought it would be Zach Allen. And actually rumors came out that they were looking at Zach Allen very hard. I think very similar types of guys. They are. It's a little different play style, but the exact same role. Three tech, four I, five, useful player. You could kick into two eye if you need them. Draymond is more disruptive. He's going to make more splash plays with the way that he plays.

Exactly it. Yeah. It's, but both of those guys, I think we're well worth paying. Essentially, what we talked about, second tier, interior defense-aline money. He firmly got it right around the Grady Jared, Eric Armstead, Kenny Clarks of the world, which I think is very fair for what he is. I really like him. I've talked about him already before on previous shows.

I think he still has room to grow and get even better. Like, I think it isn't that bad, man. It's not at all. It's $30 million dollars guaranteed. It's a $10 million cap it this year and $17 million in year, too. It's not bad at all. I thought it was four years at first. And so three years I was even like, I mean, that's not bad at all.

Like, it really isn't for what this player is. It's a lot of money. But I do think that you could talk yourself into him being worth that deal even into next year when it's a $17 million cap it. When you look at even snap breakdown and he's playing 80% plus of your snaps, that's worthwhile. This is not just a specialist type. Like, and that's the thing. His sack numbers are never going to be outrageous. Positional flexibility.

Yep. You can line up in a couple different spots. And for a defense that needs front guys, they need like two more. up there. And that's what helps. We talk about this flexibility. Now you can pop in who you want. And also a team, I look at Seahawks Twitter. I'm kind of, as I'm wearing a Mariners shirt, I'm like, Seahawks Twitter adjacent.

That's one of the teams that I'm kind of like somewhat affiliated with, even though I'm not Seahawks fan. But I just see it's like they're trying to figure out what's their best defense and what they want to go. They've tried a few things in the last couple years. This helps because he can do it both. He can be a gap shooter or he can be a two-gapping, three-four type that can hold on to blocks because he's long and strong.

So useful. And he's only 26 with room to get better. I really like this one. And there's definitely a timeline where they just drop Jalen Carter, Will Anderson, onto this team in a couple months. So now you have Draymond Jones. You have Will Anderson or Jalen Carter. You have a Cheninuoso.

You have a couple of those guys that you sign in the secondary. Him and Jalen Carter would be monsters together. Oh, my God. It becomes interesting pretty quickly. I know the Seahawks, man. I know. They're one of my favorite teams to watch this year. I'm very, very interested in Seahawks in 2023.

Michael Sean Dugar, I think, did a very good and intentional job of pointing this out on Twitter. Seahawks don't do a lot of this. They don't do a lot of big, splashy, outside free agent signings. The new Woso deal is mostly the range that they're going to go into with outside free agencies. So this is a little bit out of character, but they have some money to spend. Again, because so much of their core is young, cost-controlled. You know, Gino is not on crazy money, even on an extension. So, you know, they're, I think, seeing themselves and billing themselves as a pretty real contender in the

NFC this year and I understand that. And with a lot of picks, it's, Seahawks are sitting pretty right now. It's, it's funny how, you know, one year,

how much, like your feelings with the team can change. I thought this rebuilding process would be a lot longer. They really revamped the house really, really quickly. I think there, as it stands right now,

not a ton of cap space left. Okay, so they're moving on from Shelby Harris. So, you know, not a ton of flexibility. These are mostly, I think the splashing moves you're going to see from them. But again, add a couple guys high up in the draft like they have.

Nell draft, man. Interesting. Get two tackles and two corners in a draft and you're starting running back. And your future fortunes look really, really rosy. That's really what it kind of happened for the Seahawks. I wanted to ask you this, okay? Yeah. So just these are useful exercises to me when we think about free agency because it's

about opportunity cost. If you're going to sign one player, you cannot sign another player. If you're Chicago and you look at the. the deal that Dremont Jones just got from Seattle, and you look at the deal that you gave Tremaine Edmonds. Which one would you want? Dremont Jones. I'm building up front. If I'm rebuilding team, I'm building up front. I think that it's just a philosophy I'm always going to have. And I think that's, again, we're talking about a player that can plug it anywhere for a team that needs players. That it would make sense, more sense to me, especially what they did with the Edwards.

Like, they already had Edwards in the hand. So you didn't like need to splurge. So that's, that's where I would have gotten with. It's just always, always. building up front, especially for useful players. They still have a ton of money. I mean, they signed to Marcus Walker and Free Agency yesterday. They've got two or three other things. I like the Walker signing, by the way. And I think they can still do a couple of those in the defensive line and just assign pieces up there.

They're not crippled because of it. Like, that's the thing. It's not, no, because they have so much money. There's so much money. Again, the opportunity cost isn't that real because you have to spend the money somewhere and they have so much of it. So much. They front loaded the deal. He has a $22 million cap pit next year.

When he has that $22 million cap pit, they still have an unbelievable. amount of money to work with because they have no players on the team. And I think that's part of it. As I've thought more about it, I still don't totally support it as a general idea. But I can understand if you're the front office looking at him and saying, okay, among all the players available in free agency, is he the best bet to be an elite player over the life of this contract? As a 24-year-old guy who just had his best season at a position where it takes a little bit longer to develop. I think that's still a pretty narrow band of outcomes to be betting on, but I understand the mindset when you have that much money to spend.

That's my thought on it right now. And sleeping on it, you know, you kind of, in the moment we were live when we saw it. We literally responded in real time. Real time. So, yeah.

So, of course, and then, yeah, I'm with you. I was pretty harsh on it yesterday. He's still, like you said, it's you're betting on the upside.

And that's when you're, you're always going to overpay in free agency for the most part. There's a couple of, we don't even talk about that I think are underpays. But you're going to overpay. You're betting on, like you said, can this guy live up to contract or exceed it where the money is worthwhile? That's why I was a big fan of Draymond Jones because I thought that he could live up to whatever

deal he got or surpass it. That's the thing with Edmonds. For three years of his career so far, or the first half of his career, I should say, it's been a lot of up and down play where it's like, yes, the idea of Edmonds was better than the actual player. And last year was the first kind of proof of concept of what he could be. So I understand the bet. And honestly, like you said, after two years, okay, if he isn't what we thought, they have workable ways to like that's $15 million a year for the next two years.

And they can move on. And that's the thing. It's not as bad. Like a lot of things in life. It's not as bad or not as good as you think at first glance. And I think maybe it's not my favorite signing in the world, but as opposed to like an F how I felt in real time, it's more like, you know, a B minus as maybe what would have been my grade if I did a grade for it. And it made the length, I think, is a game changer at that position. if you look at the guys who actually impact the game at the highest level,

like guys like Fred Warner, just being able to cover all that ground in the middle of the field and just be a disruptor in the passing game. I think that's the bet that you're trying to make. Okay. A little bit of news. As we're sitting here right now, according to Jordan Schultz,

Alan Lazard, has signed a four-year, $44 million deal with the Jets, $22 million guaranteed. It's kind of just the Corey Davis money. Yeah, that's what it feels like. Didn't Corey Davis sign for it? three years, 33 million. He did.

I think his hits like 10 and a half middle this year or something like that. It's 11.2. 11.2. I assume that Luzards will be less than that. But the money that they will save moving out from Corey Davis, it feels like they have earmarked for Alan Luzard. Exact same role. Exact same like tier player to me.

That's kind of funny to me. That's actually gets the same. But Aaron Rogers is friends with this guy and not Corey Davis. And he knows the signals. The signals that, by the way, he hasn't changed any of the signals. You know that like Y flat play that used to run like, you know, Jared cook when he was there and Finley and all that. So like that little play is this.

That's the signal. It hasn't changed in 15 years. He still does it. And so that's what I kind of crack up that. Like no one can learn that. Me and not even studying it. No, it's the signal. Sorry, that's my like little mini rant that he's like, I need the guys I know my stuff.

And it's like, yeah, do you? Maybe just trust that these other players can play to. Sorry. That's my little quick little rant about the having the supporting cast to match with him. I like Lazard. I really do. Very useful player, especially on third and fourth down. It's just funny.

It's not crazy money. No. He's a useful player. Yeah, he's a useful player. And that's the contract for like a starting receiver. Okay. Zach Allen goes to Denver, three years, $45 million with $32.5 million guaranteed. Reunited with Vance Joseph, who was his defensive coordinator in Arizona.

I can't really, I don't really know what to make of what the Broncos have done. Other than it seems like they're putting themselves in a. position where they can kind of move on from the non-patent guys after this season. And there's going to be the guys that Sean Peyton decided to build around. So guys like Cortland Sutton, Garrett Bowles, Justin Simmons, all of those guys have contracts where they can move on and pivot into next year. Also a reminder that Russ's cap hits aren't crazy over the next two years. That was a good learning experience for me.

He's only at 35 million. So that's, I think, why they can afford some of these deals. get a little bit more expensive into next year. Also, McGlinchie Powers and Zach Allen, their capits this year add up to $18 million only. That's funny. So, and those are going to go up obviously in future years. But I think that's, if we're trying to figure out, well, how can they afford all these guys after some of the contracts they've handed out and with Russ's deal, that's how they can afford all these guys. Yeah. It's not like Sean Payton brought Mickey Loomis and the cap guy from the Saints over and went like, hey, figure this out. They're not

going through that game plan. It just makes sense for the timing all the contracts. No, this is also great, sorry, there's going to be a few of these guys, but great reminder for me about how much the coaching connection matters for some of these signings, how much these guys pound the table for the, they have to get their guy, Vance Joseph and Zach Allen. Again, we were kind of mentioned them a little bit,

talk about Draymond Jones. Similar to your player, very useful. He's a year younger, he's 25, can move around the defensive line. They figure out how they want to use them. So I like the signing. It's a good player. I'm not like, I think this is a very fair deal. They don't think it's an overpay, even though they doesn't have that name recognition right

now, but ascending player, this is well worth paying. So what does that Broncos front look like right now without Shub and with Zach Allen? DJ Jones, yep, Alan, potentially whatever, Randy Gregory, how many snaps he can give you. Baron Browning, Baron Browning. Baron Browning, man. He was an ace last year. That's pretty fun.

It's a nice, the sliding doors are fun. We thought that Zach Allen might be a Seattle. guy. Yeah. They sign Dremont Jones and then Zach Allen signs essentially to play a similar role to the one that Dremont Jones. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's actually really funny. Hey, but Vance Joseph got his guy. That's what that matters. DJ Jones, yeah, DJ Jones is a great ass kicker up front. Him and Zach Allen are kind of a fun little pairing. They won't be in that kind of front a lot. But I like it. I mean, they got some defensive talent.

On top of it, they got some interesting DBEs, you know, with Simmons and Sartan and K. K. on Williams, your guy. Yeah. If Randy Gregory, this is always it with Randy Gregory. If Randy Gregory is healthy in playing, it's a really, really fun front, but that's not something you try to bet on to happen every single year. All right.

Next to one here. Some dolphin signings that we need to get to. Two years, $10 million for David Long. Would you rather have him? So I understand this, though. I mean, this is an injury concern. That's it. I mean, this is one of those moments where everyone on Twitter was like, oh, my God.

Right now. David Long, how did David Long go get signed for two years and $10 million? Well, you don't lose your job if David Long doesn't play. And I think that's, and I used to do this all the time where I'd be like, oh, my God. What a steal for that guy. Or like, a third round pick for Darren Waller. Oh, my God. Well, he doesn't play half the season.

Right. Then you gave up a third round pick for essentially nothing. Yes. And I think that's the concern with some of these guys who have really. to find injury histories in the ways that David Long does. That being said, if it hits, oh, hell yes. I mean, that is, he is a really good player when he's on the field. Yep, that's it.

I mean, you know, but that's the thing is like last year, best year possible. He's playing most snaps. Still only play 12 games. Didn't even like, it's like that, and that was his best year before that 10 games, before that 14 and 14. That was in the backup role when he didn't have to play as many snaps. And that's why he stayed healthy. He's an undersized guy.

I love David. long. My second team all pro. You love Dave. He's a great player, but everything you laid out is exactly why his market looks like his market. That's why he only got two years. That's why you got five mil a year. That's why that looks like that. Got half of Bobby O'Caricay got. Yeah. And how many games is O'Caricay missed? Like not that many, right? He's been fairly healthy. You pay for health. I will say, the dolphins, though, seem a little bit less scared of these sorts of moves than other teams when it comes to injury history. Armstead and Chub. I mean, they gave up a ton of to go get Bradley Chub who's been hurt consistently.

They just signed Rahim Moster, who we're going to get to here in a second. So they seem like they're going to make bets on guys who are underpriced because of that injury history. Not that Bradley Chub was underpriced. They traded a freshman pick and they gave them a massive extension. In some other instances, that feels like a direction they've been willing to go. And I love the graphs that people post or the numbers when you look at like adjusted games loss and all that. But you always look at who the Super Bowl teams are. usually two of the healthiest teams in the league.

If the dolphins stay healthy, yet all if, even with their quarterback, everybody they got, holy crap, they got a lot of talent. But that's the thing. You're betting that maybe the stars can align.

And if they do, yes, that's the swing you're making. That's the bet you're making. Honestly, but just even schematic fit, and this is what I said on Twitter, was that this is a pairing

I'd even know I wanted. And now I'm like, like, fuck yeah. Him and Vic Fangio? Yeah. Like, think of Fangio defense is how much, how much run, how many bits I got out of Troy Reeder with the Rams defense? Because why Troy Reeder always stood out to me because they put them on an island is all these

fronts they do where the linebackers, the only guy standing right there in the box, and they have to make you right. If somebody misses the gap, does something wrong, they have to make you right. David Long is like the ultimate make you writer. This is a great pairing for what they want to do up front. He's lived in light boxes in the Titans. We've talked about this, all these two high fronts, what Jim Schwartz likes to do, all that type of stuff. he cleans up a lot of messes and he's so instinctive and so aggressive or so so uh so intelligent as a

player he's okay against the past but he's great against the run i loved it from a schematic fit so i really hope that he plays as many games as he can because this could be a really really fun player to scheme match with a lot of talent around him as well i believe they brought back duke riley as well so i'm wondering what that means he's the linebacker room as a whole but yeah it's a really fun fit if he stays healthy but that's a big if yep big if Same for the running backs. Yes, right. I was going to say remorse.

Two years. So we were wondering what they were going to do at running back because their running backs were all hitting free agency. They had no one under contract. Two years, $5.6 million for Rahim Moster, $2.2 million guaranteed. And they brought back Jeff Wilson. Their running game looked really good at the end of the year with those two guys. I mean, I can understand just saying, why would I have a guy need the onboard into this when I could bring this guy back at a cheap price, get both of them? So I protect myself a little bit and just roll what this is our group.

I understand that. Get these two and drop. in a day three pick and I love that. That's a great running back room. A fun balance of speed and more of a fun balance with speed with Rehme, and then like Jeff Wilson's got a nice balance player. Actually, it was pretty good in short yard stuff too. So I like that.

They take a stab on someone. I know they don't have a lot of draft capital. And I think this is a really fun running back room. So one more like Dolphins bit of housekeeping. The J-Wan Ramsey News was reported. I want to say it was Spot Track that reported the actual numbers. He has a $28 million cap hit next year. on his new deal.

So we were wondering what that was going to look like with some of the other restructures that they had done. So heading into next year, we're looking at a scenario where Tyreeks at 31, Zavian Howard is at 26, two is at 23, Toronto Armstead's at 21,

Chub is at 27, and Jalen Ramsey is at 28. It's a lot of expensive players, but again, they have no mid-tier players. And they could easily move on next year from Emmanuel Agba who's kind of a holdover from when they didn't have Bradley Chubb, which I think is a consideration.

Even if they sign Christian Wilkins or re-sign Christian Wilkins, it's likely going to be on a pretty modest deal in year one so they can fit him in. So they still have some flexibility moving forward. But I think overall this still signals to me that we really want to put together the best possible roster we can in 2023. We think this is a window for us. They're cranking that window open just as much as they can. No, it feels this is a big year for them, especially with Tua stuff coming up and everything

with that situation as well, that kind of takes away some chances too. So I think this is, yeah, this is just moves to this is, they're really pushing this year. And I'm excited to watch it. I think it's going to be a very, very fun team. If they move on from Emmanuel Ogba and really just Cedric Wilson, but even if you don't include Cedric Wilson in that, the most expensive contract on the books, other than the guys at like 20, 25 million is Jalen Waddle at 8.6. It's just an interesting team the way that it's constructed.

I mean, they've gotten, it's either been guys on rookie contracts or elite players that were not elites players you're trying to pay like that. It's not the worst model in the world. Not a bad way to go about it. Yeah. I just when you see it laid out like this, it's just like, oh man, that's pretty stark. And then you plopping guys like David Long who are you try to hit on that if they could say if, you know, it's if, if, if, if, if, if, but if they hit, holy crap.

look at our team. But that, I like that bet. I like making those bets. I understand that kind of team building philosophy, even if it's kind of a hodgepodge wave, they've done it. All right. One more bit of running back news. This one is very fun. I have no idea if we're going to actually end up getting to see it all. Rashad Penny going to the Eagles. I have not seen the terms of this. I can't imagine it's very expensive based on his injury history. But this is one of those where you just talk yourself into the best case scenario. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is, With that offensive line, holy crap, this could be a lot of fun. Rashop Penny said this.

Legitimately one of the best athletes at any position in the entire NFL. It doesn't matter what the position is. Just when this guy has been healthy, yes, when this guy has been healthy, honestly, one of the best running backs in the league. He's been so much fun. And hits between the tackles can run any run scheme, giving him with the Eagles offensive line, with Jalen Hertz taking some of the load off.

I'm, I'm, this, if he stays. healthy, this could be a lot, a lot of fun. I'm actually, another one that I didn't know I wanted. And now that I, it's happening in real life, I'm like, yeah, this is going to be cool. I put Rashad Penny on IR in my Dynasty League, like midseason.

Just getting the off chance. We'll see what happens. I do that with a lot of, like, free agent running back. Just grab him, see whatever's going to go down. I should probably, like, trade him. Somebody's going to be like very excited about this possibility. And when he plays four games, I'll be happy that I did. But I can't. This is going to be one of those things where

I just owe it to myself to see it through because the best case scenario. It's not even just about value. It's just about pure enjoyment. Yeah. Like the fun. Did you do it like an all fun team like fantasy? Yes. Yes.

The most fun fantasy team that you can buy. Yes. So that the fun that is potentially associated with that pairing, I just, I can't let it go. I just have to. Miles Sanders went for, I like Miles Sanders, but he's not the same tier of Penny when Penny's healthy. And he went for 1,11 touchdown. You keep saying when Penny is healthy.

Like this is a thing. where he's healthy for more than three games a season. I just, I would love to see it happen. The lion's game is so burned in my brain in the last half of 2021 where he just went on a freaking tear and it was awesome. Like those are just always going to be burned in my brain. I'm trying to be better about this going like, battle the injury history.

That's why I emphasize it because I'm more talking to myself than anybody else here when I talk about the guy's injury history. But man, those four games are going to be a lot of fun when he is healthy. All right, a few more here to pick off before we get out of here. Patrick Peterson to the Steve. dealers. It looks like a fairly small cap hit in year one, 4.25 in year one, 9.8 in 2024.

So not a lot of money for potential Cam Sutton replacement. Yeah, I'm kind of terrified against him against the Bengals twice a year. His biggest, whoa, I love Patrick Pearson, but he's a shell of himself. I mean, he's in his mid-30s that quarter, essentially a slightly above replacement level player at this point. but it's long speeds his issue. And going against Jamar Chase and T. Higgins might be a little interesting twice a year. But this is kind of like, okay, one of those kind of signings, like, okay, that's cool.

Speaking of exactly those kind of signings as we talk about the Texans here. Jimmy Ward going to the Texans, two years, $13 million, $8.5 million fully guaranteed, according to Aaron Wilson. We were wondering whether Al-Shayr would be the guy that went there. is kind of like the steward of the scheme that would go with Domeco Ryan's and it's Jimmy Ward instead, which I think makes a lot of sense. Great locker room guy, falls Ryan's. A little overlap with Jayonne Petrie who had a nice rookie year, as far as like slot slash safety type of player.

So I'm curious, but I think that could be really interesting having two players that have those types of students. It's going to be great. Help on board the offense or onboard the defense. I know we're talking about all the Texans moves here. It's they have done this where they're signing all these kinds of. the mid, upper mid-tier vets the last few years. These ones that they've done, I really like.

I like a lot of these signings that they've made that we're about to talk about. But Jimmy Ward, of course, is kind of the ace of that. Shaq Mason, traded to the Texans for essentially. Such a great line, by the way, the steward of the scheme. That's an all-timer for me. I'm locking that one in. That's going on, that's going into the lexicon. Shaq Mason traded to the Texans for really just a late round pick swap.

Like it? Yeah, I'm surprised there wasn't a bigger market for him. him. People just don't seem to like Shaq Mason. This goes all the way back to him being a fourth round pick. Remember Dante Scarnackia came on the show and we were talking about Shaq Mason. And he was talking about scouting Shaq Mason. He's just like, that guy just blocks all the people in front of him. It's his, I know because they ran the triple option.

I remember we watched him. And I'm like, this guy's awesome. What we have on him? Seventh round grade? He was a fourth round pick. I know. Our grade in Atlanta, I was not, he was a local guy. I was kind of like, what are we doing here?

This guy is like, I mean, because he's like a sought off shotgun. You just snap with the ball, boom. The guys were just getting knocked back when you downblock them. Speaking of that, this is a strange aside, I had no idea that Puna Ford was 5 foot 11. Yeah, but like 307. Yes, 310. I am 5 foot 11.

I tried like hell to put as much weight on my body as I possibly could in high school. Our offensive line in my junior year, average like 6-5-280. Okay, that was the. average and that was with me and so my i felt and i was the only junior and i just felt like this deep obligation to just be as big as i could be yeah in order to like maintain the weight of the room and so i weighed like 245 my junior year and i did not hold it well it did not hold it well i mean i 220 is like the most i could put on this frame and be like a functional athlete to be 511 and weigh 310 pounds and be like a NFL player it's just it's insane it's absolutely insane a unique body type

He's one of those where it's like, oh, I know he's like, I thought he was around six foot. Like six foot. He's probably like 280, but pushing 310. It's 5.11. It's just a little bowling ball. He's actually a bowling ball out there. I weigh, you'd have to put 130 pounds on my frame as I currently sit. It's just, it's unfathomable to me.

Anyway, yeah. Other Texans moves, Noah Brown on a one-year deal. Noah Brown is a useful player. Yeah, good blocker. I mean, the receiver room they got. going now Noah Brown, Robert Woods. Yeah. It is really funny that this is how they're going about it.

It's not a judgment. No. Because it's not overspending. They're not doing crazy stuff. But it's just the fact that they're just living right here with these types of guys seems to be their MO. And it's what they've done for the last couple years. The Houston Astros used to be the Houston Cold 45s for like one year.

And then this is the Houston Madden 78s. That's what I'm going with here. Just going with a joke. Just roll with it. I actually really like Noah Brown with them. He's got a lot better last year. I know he's 27, I believe, but he was way improved. Dirty work guy.

Bobby Sloick is a Shanahan guy. They love their blocking receivers. So Robert Woods and Noah Brown, totally get it. More of a number three, number four type. But I actually like that one. 49ers lose a Jimmy Ward, but they gain a Sam Dernold. You know how excited I was about that. that hey i mean you are all the way back in now all the way in i i turned over chairs looking for my

my sam darnold stock that i've thrown around for the last few years if anyone can get the most out of just tucked into a desk somewhere under my mattress i think i have them but if anyone's going to get anything out of it when the apocalypse comes that's going to be the currency is all the sam darnold stock that you own darned dollars that's exactly it it's yeah i love it i love it i this is hey i'm Another one taking a chance at him. What's the seventh offensive coordinator? Let's just keep them churning. Someone's going to get the most out of them.

If this happens, if there is a potential timeline where Rock Purdy isn't ready to come back. And for whatever reason, I don't wish Trey wants to get hurt obviously. But if it ends up happening and we get to see Sam Darnold in this San Francisco offense, it is my favorite football experiment, I think I might have ever seen. Yeah. Because this is a guy who has had flashes where he's been really productive and really efficient. They've been like four week flashes. Let's be fair.

Sometimes less than that. So I was going to say four series flashes, not even a game. This is Kyle Shanahan playing the NFL on expert mode. Yeah. And seeing if he can still do it. Yeah. And I just, I would love it. I would be fascinated.

I'd be enthralled the entire time. I know. I'm kind of hoping for it now. I really want to see Trey Lance. I really do. but man this is why I've always just bought into Sam Darnold it's just because of those S-tier throws he can make

but it's just that everything else is hard for him for whatever reason just doing the easy stuff is hard so what's going to get them in a scheme with a coach that knows how to get quarterbacks to the easy stuff no I have one of my favorite experiments that might happen as well a couple other small ones here looking up a couple things here speaking of Sam Darnold and the Panthers

Bradley Bozeman goes back Carolina three years, $18 million. I'm excited for this just because I want to see that group back together. I thought they played really well together last year. They bring back James Camp and their offensive line coach. Just having that consistency continuity with that group, I thought would be a really fun little bit to watch with Carolina, and we're going to get to see that now. Damn good player in the second half, like when he had slotted that center.

He was banged up, so I think that, yeah. And thorough lines locked through, walked in through, 2024. That's pretty great for whatever young QB they, they, I must say trade the pick, but I don't think they are. That's great. For whatever young QB, they want to pop in there. Now they just have to find some pass catchers. Like the defense, like them up front. That's why I'm kind of bullish on the Panthers because I really like the offensive line and the defense. According to our Jeff Howe at the athletic, Trey Pipkins has agreed to resign with the Chargers three years, 21.5 million dollars. I totally get it if you're the Chargers.

You just want to be able to, you have a starter there, a guy that you know, we'll see what the cap hit is in year one. I assume it's very, very low. I think that was always their number one priority at that spot specifically, was to see if they could get him back at a reasonable price. He was hurt all of last season. So I think that their thought is he can be a lot better than he was last year, and we can get him for not a lot of money, and that's exactly how this played out.

Yeah, it's holding the fort until you can find better. And I think that's what it is. Maybe something else pops open. We have a answer, even if, you know, yeah, you're trying to get better there, but it's a answer. So my understanding of what is potentially going to happen on the offensive line is that they will likely move on from Filer. Yeah, okay. Okay. And then Jammari Salier will actually play right guard.

Like he. And Zion will move back to the left side where he put in college. Like all that. Like all that. So from left to right, you have. Slater. Sean Slater, Zion, Cory Wensley, Sawyer, Trey Pipkitts. It's not bad.

So that's the group that could potentially be back there. That's not bad. And Zion down the road can be slot in the center for you once you get into that life as well. No, he, that's, that's, again, got to stay healthy, but that's not a bad offensive line, especially your top three there is pretty damn good. You can work with that. You can work with that. The right tackle was the biggest question. And I think that if Pipkins can stay healthier than he was last year, I think that the outcome could be much better.

And I've said this before, for about 20 NFL teams, it is a question. No, they're not the only ones living in that world. Eric Kendricks also going to Los Angeles, two years, $13.5 million. They had a hole there with you tranquil hitting free agency. We'll see what happens with Kenneth Murray. But, you know, on the back half of his career, but I think if you're looking for just reliable play at that position, makes a lot of sense. Yep.

He's lost a step, but still super. Yep, super intelligent. Again, he's in the cleanup role. And if you look at those kind of defenses, the Fangio's staley defenses, is those guys have to clean up and be smart and not be out of position. Eric Hendricks doesn't get out of position a lot. Not a total liability against the past.

He's more just okay. The Vikings kind of by design for kind of, we've talked about this, try to stay tight and then rally to the flats. But he'll be kind of more different in the past game, I think, in this defense. But yeah, I like this one. It makes sense to me.

A couple more smaller ones here. We didn't mention Bradbury talking about center signings. We'll be back with, or offensive line signs will be back with Vikings, three years, 15 and a half million. Good for great Bradbury. I thought that they would potentially move on. But again, they don't have a ton of flexibility.

There's reliability there. There's familiarity. I get all of that. It's reasonable. Jake Brendel back with the Niners, which I think, again, kind of the same argument. It's like, devil you know. You know, he's played well last year.

The fact that we didn't really talk about him or notice him as a guy who was starting for the first time as a full-time player at age 30. I think it was a testament, the fact that he played okay. So there's kind of. going to slot him back in there. They already got a new right tackle that they're going to have to bring in or bring along if it's an in-house guy. So trying to limit the amount of turnover at some of your offensive line spots clearly

is what they're doing. Yeah. Also to keep an eye on Spencer Burford, by the way, he was good last year for them. Yeah. The 49ers, the 49ers offensive line, which is usually like, wow, Chanahan does a great job of making these guys work. They actually were kind of a plus unit last year. And truly, and Brendel was part of that.

It was one of my most improved players. He was great. Taylor Heineke. Yeah. Two years, $14 million to go to Atlanta, $6.2 or $6.3 million guaranteed, according to Doug Kiyadh. What do you make in this? Man, they're just building my quarterback room. This is great.

If we could just, they signed Darnold. It would have been perfect. Like just the three faces of Nate's quarterback. The three quarterbacks I like. High end backup, I guess. I guess it's a high end backup contract. Yeah. I just, I don't know.

I just, I didn't, wasn't a marriage I thought about in any way. No. I really like, of course, I've said this before. I really like Ritter, but also the other thing. And I brought this up. He's sub 210. Sub 210 guys typically get hurt. Like, there's just the history of it.

Ritter has never been hurt in college, knock and wood, and everything, or as a pro. He's very athletic. But still a thing you have to be cognizant of. So this is kind of a get a guy out there that can run around for us and be probably good in the room. I think he's a smart guy, Heineke, and just, well, no offense of systems. That really helps. He also grew up 20 miles from the Falcons facility.

Yeah, hometown guy. Yeah, so we tried to get him in the local day when I was in Atlanta, and then the Vikings locked him down for a top 30 visit, Scott Turner, locked him down. And the one time I, the first time I ever met Scott Turner, he like knew I was a fan of him. He was like, yeah, we got your boy. That's a true story. And I was like, he goes, yeah, we did a full, we loved him.

So we had a full court press not to let him hit his flight to make that local day. I said, God, dang it. I worked so hard. I had to throw for the, the, the, the, the, the, local day. That's why it sticks out in my brain. And that was at a time I wasn't really throwing much or at all. So yeah, sorry. Just a little side story there.

They also signed Caden Ellis from the Saints. Caden Ellis. Yeah, I liked him. Yeah, had his first extended run. Lester. Yeah, athletic guy. Useful player. They've gotten a couple of useful players in this free agency. I liked him when he had to step in for Pete Warner last year. A couple more here. Saints restructured Michael, Michael Thomas's contract.

One year, 10 million. So he will be back. I was talking to Alex Hample before we started recording this. The saint's strategy seems to be, and it's not a terrible strategy. We're just going to keep kicking this down the road, and potentially the world will just end before we have to pay any of these bills. Like, betting on the demise of society before you have to worry about any of this stuff, it's not the worst bet in the world, but it does seem like that's what they're doing, and I respect it. I think the last of us, like, plot when the apocalypse kind of started was in 2003. It's not spoilers. Everybody knows it's a zombie show.

But it was 2003, and I think that's when the Saints started kicking the can with their salary cap stuff. So it kind of matches their philosophy. They think they're in the last of us timeline that somehow sports are still being played there. But no, I actually like the past catchers. Alave Thomas and Joanne Johnson is a pretty fun. It's hard to imagine this happening with Derek Carr had not been signed there. Right. Him wanting to be back.

But now you have a pretty interesting collection of guys, a solid offensive line. I don't know what the saint's ceiling is with this team. And again, I've talked about this a million times over the last couple weeks. Yeah. The defense is a little bit more fragile than I think it seems when you look at their production over the last three or four years because how consistent they've been. But those guys are getting older. A lot of things to consider there.

But I think that this team could actually be pretty solid this year. And especially in an NFC South where there's a lot of questions being asked. I FC South and just MC in general. One more here. What I actually really like, the Lions signed Emmanuel Mosley formerly of the Niners, one year, six million. So the Lions now potentially have two outside corners in Emmanuel Mosley and Cam Sutton, both of whom were signed for relatively small.

all deals. So, I mean, I think that how they were going to use, again, some of those resources to rebuild their secondary with outside pieces. What was it going to look like? And it's not bad. I mean, again, we're talking about guys that can we just have guys we don't have to worry about over there with some of this excess money that we have. That's exactly how they seem to build it. And I think it puts them in a really good spot. He was a true plus starter for 49ers last year until he got hurt. Yeah. And this is what you're doing. I'd much rather have this and take a chance on this than 33-year-old Patrick Peterson at 7 million a year. So, no, I like this a lot.

I think, like we said, you're injecting juice in there. And if he comes back, it was an October injury. So you're hoping, you know, one calendar year, especially the last kind of two-thirds of a season, he'll really be a contributor for you. Yeah, I like it. Plus starter, great proof it recovery deal. And that's how you inject some juice into your DB room right there. He's been hurt the last two years.

He only played 11 games in 2021 as well. But again, it's one year, six million. You take a fly around a guy who, if it clicks, you're going to, going to get value out of him. And if not, the downside is not that strong. Exactly. And if you draft a guy, then he doesn't have to play right away. You can kind of, you can piecemeal together.

Exactly. And that's what this is. That's what seems like. This is a one, one point one part of you kind of piecing together your cornerback room. Yes. That's exactly it. Do you get it all? We get it all?

That's all we got. All right. We will be back tomorrow, same time, same place. I actually won't be in the same place. place, but it'll be the same time. So excited to do that. 3.30 p.m. Eastern again right here on YouTube.

So please come back and check that out. For now, please rate and review the podcast. If you have not, go on Apple Podcast. Tell us why you like it. It would mean a lot to me if you did. Please subscribe to The Athletic. The athletic.com slash football show is where you can read all of our excellent NFL coverage, which has been rolling in all week.

But for now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the athletic football show.