The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Free Agency Recap, Day 4: Von Miller signs with Bills, Saints & Falcons still in on Deshaun Watson, Jets continue to make moves & more

Episode Date: March 17, 2022

Robert Mays and Nate Tice continue their NFL free agency coverage by breaking down the Bills’ big deal for Von Miller. Plus, which teams remain in the running for Deshaun Watson? They discuss the latest with the QB before talking about several moves from the Jets and a quiet week for the Patriots. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, it's Robert. Just a quick heads up. We recorded this episode before the news came down that Baker Mayfield requested a trade and that the Browns would not plan on honoring that request. So just keep that in mind as you're listening. I'm sure we'll hit all of that and a lot more here in the coming days. Appreciate it. This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show.

I'm Robert Mays. Join me today. It's my good friend Nateyce. How you doing, buddy? Doing well. We got through it. March Madness in several ways. opening day of the brackets, but closing a little bit of free agency.

Or the first breath, the first gasp of free agency is over. I hope. I'm sure there'll be news right as like 10 minutes into the show. We'll have to like talk about something that'll come up today. Well, I left out the date. Today is Thursday, March 17. So it's the first day of March Madness. It's St. Patrick's Day.

Yes. And I'm at a bachelor party. That's the combo. That's where I am right now. But we're having this conversation. at a different point in my life, a few lifestyles ago, this would have been a different sort of day. But instead today, we're going to talk about the latest in free agency, the latest that's happened over the last 24 hours or so.

This is inevitable. Every single time we do this, where we start reacting to a flurry of news, the moment that the microphone turns off, it's inevitable that something massive is about to happen. So yesterday, Sheel and I pressed stop. Like, oh, man, that was a fun show. about 30 minutes later, news comes down that Von Miller signs with the bills six years, $120 million, which are huge numbers. So let's walk those back a tiny bit here in a second.

But what was your first reaction when you saw the Von Miller to Buffalo News? Well, the Chandler Jones, the Raiders was like the first kind of like, oh, that's interesting. I actually kind of thought he might go with the bills. Huh. All right. Well, maybe the bills aren't going like shopping for a big fish because it kind of felt that way. And then it goes, boom, boom, like a couple hours later, Von Miller, six years, 120. I was like, ah, there it is.

There it is. That was the other piece that had a fellow. I was like, oh, Chandler. Well, Randy Gregory went to the Broncos and Von Miller was flirting with that. So I was trying to, like, piece these all together, but it's like one of those that makes sense. All the smoke that was happening the last two weeks, it kind of made sense. It's a contender. Makes a ton of sense of that, like, as far as what Von Miller was going for.

So it really, it all made, it was like shocking at first. of course, when you see the number, but then, again, you take a deep breath and you go, okay, you unravel it all. It makes a ton of sense as far as where the bills are, as far as where Vaugh Miller is in his career. A ton of money, but that's a hell of a player. And we saw in the playoffs when this is why you get these kind of stars. You can have a lot of good players, but in those big moments, it's nice to have a star. They have one of the quarterback.

Now it's get one on defense. I can really take over a game like the quarterback can. Let's talk about the finances first. Okay. Six years, $120 million, $3 years, $53 million, practically guaranteed. So it's about $17 million a year, which is what Chandler Jones got from the Raiders. The difference here is that Vaughn gets his first three years guaranteed. Chandler Jones only has the first two years guaranteed.

So you have one more year of financial commitment. That's where the gap is. The six years to me says this is so we can play with this. We are committing to something here, right? If we need to convert something a little bit later and we need to prorate some money over the final few years of the deal and kick this can down the road, that's fine. We're willing to do that. This is a declaration of intent from the bills because we joked yesterday. And it felt like something was coming.

I just, when you thought about where they were and the way they lost and everything else and then the arms race that we're watching in the AFC, which we'll get to, it just felt like, even before Free agency started, I sent a message to Joe Biscagli who covers the bills for us. And I was like, can they make some moves to free up space for one big swing? And it just, I thought it might be on the horizon. and this was it. So this is them saying, you know what? And we joked about yesterday.

The bill's bullshit. Roger Saffold, J.D. McKissick, which didn't end up happening. But just quiet moves to improve their team in subtle ways that we expect from them. OJ. Howard, which we'll get to. But then this comes in and kind of completely changes the conversation. Because this scene, when you look at what's happening around the AFC, when you look at what the Chargers have done over the last few weeks, when you think about obviously what the Broncos are doing, the chiefs are still there. the Ravens have had a really nice couple weeks in terms of adding talent to their team. The bills have been quiet.

And at a certain point, if we're going to have all these monster teams in the AFC, you feel a sense of urgency. It's like we need to do something. We need to make sure that we're improving our team in a real way. And this is it. So now, like you said, stars matter. You need those difference-making players. And when you look at the bill's cap, it's impressive about how they've managed to keep this so tight.

You know, Stefan Diggs, I think is 17 million. Everything else is below that. And this is a really good roster because it's the last cheap year of Josh Allen. And it's a really cheap roster. And we like how they've built it. But at a certain point, it's like, all right, we need more than just a lot of good players. Who's our difference making player on defense going to be outside of Trey White? And now we have our answer.

Yeah. And not splurging in years before has let them have this flexibility now. That's exactly right. And like you said, the six years, too, it gives them room to be creative. And guess what? this front office can be creative. And creative and not like, oh, the Saints way that we love the joke and talk about, but more in like just how they want to do it.

Like they can structure their team how they want to structure it, which is like it's what you want to be in as you're contending. It is none of this is theory. None of this is like, oh, well, we don't know. Now they're making the home run swing. It's like, no, they last year I felt like they, they prop that door open. And now they're like, okay, let's keep it open.

And that's just when the Rams did last year. It's not the same kind of situation, but a little bit. where they made the Von Miller move, the OBJ signing, and same kind of thing. They're like, hey, we have a little bit of a window here. Let's move it up. Let's get a couple inches up. Let's put another little prop in there. Another little rock, another little boulder in there to keep that window open.

So I think that's really what this move is going to do. And it's an understanding of what the league is now. We want to talk about franchises and organizational build and competing every single year. There's times also when you look at that AFC East, we talk about the AFC West. that's a bloodbath. But look at that AFC East. Very winnable, very lot of time to figure things out. Okay, we can like really regroup and figure out what our defense is and our offense as well

because they're going to have changes on that side of the ball with dabble being gone. But it's now they give themselves time. They give themselves another weapon. And it's just, it's an arms race, but there's this different. Like, but the AFC is amazing. Like it's unbelievable how much all these pass rushers, all these quarterbacks that these teams are building. And the bills said, hey, look what the ramps just did.

We have a window right now. Fuck it. let's go for it. And I like that. I like that a lot. I totally understand it. I think that you have to have that sort of urgency when you have all these other teams that are willing to make those concessions. If you have a team like the Bucks or a team like the Packers that seems ready to drive themselves off a financial cliff. And you need to compete with the same with the Rams last year. And you need to compete with that. You don't want to go crazy. But I can understand thinking, we need to do something like this,

even if it leaves you a little bit vulnerable. But you look at this, they're such a fascinating team. I mean, the way they've built this over the last five years, you look at all the little moves. So right now, okay, they go get Von Miller, they signed O.J. Howard, they've made a couple quieter moves along the defensive line. They just released Cole Beasley. They'll save $6 million. Cole Beasley is expendable on that team now because Isaiah McKenzie has stepped into a new role who they re-signed. Gabe Davis is now a full-time starter. They have OJ Howard and Dawson Knox. Do they use more 12 personnel? So they save $6 million by cutting Beasley and Gabe Davis is on a rookie contract. OJ. Howard is on a pretty cheap deal, I would assume. So you see this shift and kind of this evolution

while trying to trim a little bit of money. And then look at next year, okay? They can cut Star-Lat-2-Lay next year and save $6 million. They signed Tim Settle to be like, like they have that meat along the defensive line. They signed AQUAN Jones. They signed Tim Settle. You just see it all kind of come together in this way.

They've done such a good job of everything. 100%. The plan always seems to be there. And I think that it, I always appreciate that when you can see, see the work. And in a way that makes sense. And in a way that you're always kind of building and building and building. And that's what this team has done. And I think this is a splashy move.

And it obviously opens you up to more risk. But when you combine that risk with how sound everything else has been, I think that you get a team that is as good a chance as anybody to win the AFC. Yeah. I mean, the offense, just with Josh Allen, you know, we can talk about O line and the changes that they might make, what they did make there as well. but like you said, the Saffold signing.

Another good example. Yeah. But it's just, but Josh Allen there is like, it's going to just make that whole side of the ball always give them a chance. So especially when they figure out, there's going to be some growing pains, I think, but with the new coordinator and everything with Dorsey. But I think it's, it's going to be good. It's going to be good. But the Howard move is what I love. Even that, though, is like, that's a plan.

It's continuity. And like, yes, like, that's a plan. It all kind of, yeah. There's a seamlessness to it that I appreciate. I love when they, yeah, it's the classic, I wouldn't say, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a classic. It's not sliding doors. It's one door opens another. They close a door and they have the other door propped open already.

And they're like, oh, no, we're already set. We already have a plan for that. Like everything, a guy's on the way out and a new guy's moving in. And the guy's on the way out and you guys moving it. And nothing is backbreaking. Like you, Von Beller's a star. I mean, with any way you shake it. Like, we saw what he did in the playoffs.

Like, he still, he still has that juice. So these are the moves you make. They're not, they're not splurging on some upper middle class player that they hope could play a little better in a new situation. It's like, no, it's von, von, von Miller. It's pretty freaking good. But I love, I love, we, we talk about Bengals and Bills having similar to kind of defensive looks, I guess. But like the front of the Bills was so much fun because they rotate all their guys.

They had like seven, eight tangible players. Now they still have that. It's more like six, seven tangible players. But then one of them's an absolute star that they can rotate as much as they want or as little as they want. They can keep them fresh until the fourth quarter. Other teams in a two minute drill needs to score, needs to keep up with the Bills' offense. You know what Vaugh Miller is great at? pinning his ears back and wrecking on a right tackle.

That's what you're paying these guys for. It's really cool. I like it. And the OJ Howard signing, I really like that those are a type of tight end. Dice roll that seems worth it to me. It's totally worth it. And he gives him a vertical stretching,

stretchability that in a big body that they didn't have. We talk about receiver rooms being a basketball lineup. You can include the tight ends with that too. Now you get that center, that power forward. That's going to just give you a bigger presence. It just gives you a different flavor than these kind of, you know,

the smurfs that they like on the, the receiver core. So I like it. Except Dave Davis isn't. So it's just like that's the thing. It's like it's always, there's always these shifts in what your personality is. What your identity is. It's,

they're good to you, man. They've done this the right way. I love how they do. The thing that's still hanging out there, they still need another corner. Yep. And now it becomes, all right, what kind of player is that? Do you go get a cheap stopgap option there? Is that something where it's like, oh, we'll figure out a guy at four million

bucks whoever's left over or is this an in for a penny in for a pound situation it's like all right james brad bradbury's cap hit his base like 13 million dollars that's workable redo it cut that down maybe it's a five million dollar hit this year you push it over a system gms in new york might be uh i'm just i'm just throwing it out there i just maybe i'm getting a little bit greedy in terms of what i want to see but i'm just throwing it out there like what does that corner move ultimately look like I think is a question worth asking. Yeah. I mean, there's still guys on the market, too, that like the Stephen Nelson's of the world.

I don't think he's signed anywhere. But like that's exactly the person. They would have this the stopgap option. Stephen Nelson is exactly the guy. That's exactly it. That's number two all the way. Solid number two. But then, yeah, but then, you know, I love when you, we talked before the show and

you mentioned the Bradbury stuff. I was like, oh, I love that because that's, that's truly like, this is our window. Screw what everyone else is doing. We know what we're doing. Run away with this division. and, you know, get to the dance and we have all the weapons that we need in the dance. Like that, I know. That one's, that one's tasty.

That one's very tasty. Let's say, let's say you, let's say about it practically. Let's say you deal for him and you extend him and you put some phony ears on it. And you, let's say you turn however much of that base salary into a signing bonus. Let's say it's 10 million of the whatever. And then so you have the $6 million left in dead money after next year if you want to move on. You could live with that. So I just think there's a fungibility there that intrigues me.

All right, now that Von Miller is gone, but the on Miller is off the table, we're pretty much out of that tier of edge guys. Randy Gregory is off the board, Hassan Reddick's off the board, von Miller's off the board, Chandler Jones is off the board. You brought up an interesting name

as we started having this conversation about, all right, if you need one of those guys, where could you be looking now? And it feels like DeNeil Hunter is now next in line. If there's a team that wants a difference-making edge rusher, is that where they ultimately? ultimately look. I'm sure they do. The Vikings are a team in flux just with all their moves and what they, I know it's, yes, they re-ups with Kirk Cousins, but it's like they just really seem a team that's just having a whole organizational shift. And it makes sense just because the regime change. So why wouldn't that be a guy that you take a chance on? He's banged, the contract is very workable. And he also, you know, he's just been banged up with injuries. He's still young as hell. Like that's a guy that you take a chance on for, you know, a day two pick. You know, just a, you know,

you know, something like that sort that, hey, we'll take them off your hands. That way you guys are going to regroup what you want on your defense. I don't know. Other than that, you're looking at guys that are more what we talk about, that the savvy teams signed, the Justin Hussons and the Melvin Ingrams of the world, those kind of like older mercenary types switch from year to year. But if you want like a true piece that can be a difference maker, it's DeNeil Hunter. And I mean, why wouldn't you?

If you're a team that's really competing and maybe it's like, hey, we want more firepower, especially in the AFC. I don't know. I think a day two pick trying to like call Minnesota. I think Minnesota has open ears to it, but try and work something out and get him on your books. I think that would be a great move for a team that's trying to compete. $18 million roster bonus doing three days. So something to keep in eye.

All right. We are going to chat about some of the other news that has crept in here over the last day or so. Before we do that, though, let's take a quick break. All right, let's chat about the latest with the Deshawn Watson news that has come down here on Thursday. Many people have reported that the Browns Brass has been informed that they are out. We will get to that in a moment. It sounds like, as our Joe person at the athletic put it, that barring a Hail Mary, the Panthers are also out.

That would mean this is a conversation between the Saints and the Falcons. We'll talk about which of those, I guess, makes sense. We'll talk about the actual landing spots here in a moment. Let's get to the Browns. Kind of an awkward thing, huh? Oh, my God. Oh, man. Because they're sliding into Deshaun's DMs and saying, hey, Baker, sorry.

Oh, man. I mean, I can understand coming out and saying we'd still like to make this work. Yeah. But even if Baker wasn't, let's call him an emotional person is what he seems like, right? Takes a lot of things personally. This is how he operates. It's fine. It has fueled him.

It's what made him great. Yeah. It has worked in his benefit many, many times. It has served him. Even if he weren't like that. Put yourself in those shoes. I don't think I'd be thrilled about it. Even if logically it makes sense.

Even if, of course, we as a franchise, on a football level, just keep reminding ourselves this, on a football level, we owe it to ourselves to kick the tires on a truly elite quarterback because we do not have one right now. Logically, if you would separate a motion from it, you can understand that if you're Baker Mayfield. But that's impossible to do. It's impossible to sit there and work with these people every single day

knowing that they tried to replace you. That seems really, really difficult. It just feels like even if the Browns want or are open to the idea of him coming back, we're probably headed to a divorce here. Yeah. It's not, and this was a different scenario altogether, but the chiefs did. There's only so many Alex Smiths of the world that are willing to go,

hey, I'm not up green this guy. very different point in your career. Yes. Like Alex Smith understands, I'm near the end. Like, you know, this is, I understand this. This is the path. Yeah. Even Jimmy Garapolo, right?

Yeah. It's different than when your baker, you're on your rookie deal. It's, it feels like you're on a certain trajectory as recently as a year ago. This is different than some of those other circumstances in my mind. Absolutely. Especially, yeah. God, because it's just a whole new world out there with these QV trades. Like it just is.

Like, this is something we haven't really navigated too much before. And it's not, when you're getting the upgrades at these certain spots, either drafting or free agency or what have you. You know, Teddy Bridgewater going to the Broncos last year. Like whatever you want to say about Teddy, you know, his average starter, but he's replacing Drew Locke. That's a whole different scenario. It's a second round pick. They didn't an anoint him at all. They're saying we're competing for him.

Now you're saying our number, our former number one pick, our face of the franchise is we're trying to upgrade on them. That's just, that's just, it's such a hard withlash going from you are the guy, you are the guy, you are the guy. you are here for a decade plus. You're going to have a elementary school named after you. Like, you know, like you are donating to the community. Like all those things. Like they add up. It's hard.

And all of a sudden going, and if you're a receiver or offensive alignment, a linebacker, you kind of know sometimes, hey, I can always be replaced. I can always be traded. But you're the quarterback. Quarterback should be locked the F in if they want to be locked in. If they're like, no, this is my team. I'm here. It's such a hard mindset.

For anyone, anyone. It could be the nicest guy in the world. That would be such a hard pill to swallow to say, I used to be the guy. I was the guy face of the franchise, face of the potential future face of the league on the progressive commercials. And now is a progressive? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's progressive.

Yeah, it is. But he does a great job acting in him. I'm sure everyone has says that. But now you're going, oh, I'm going to get replaced and I'm going to be replaced by, again, on the field, it makes sense. But all the shit that's coming with it and you're still like really kicking the tires on that just seems like it would. It would just be a hard pillage wall.

It doesn't matter what guy it is. And these guys are freaky, competitive athletes. So you're putting that on top of it. We talk all the time about how much the tenor of everything changes when everyone in the building knows that you have the guy. If you're the play caller, your drive to work in the morning is different when you know that everyone is on the same page. We have that person in the building.

The way that Zach Taylor feels in the morning is different because Joe Burrow is there. And the quarterback feels that too, right? There's a synchronicity with everything about the franchise when you have that person. You and I have talked about this. When you have that franchise guy that comes in and there's that stabilizing force, the ways that you can approach free agency, the ways that you can approach marketing, the ways that everything about the team operates is different. Well, when you step away from that alignment, everyone feels it.

And that's what this is. even if you're open to the idea and you've kept the door open for him to come back, there is no more pretending like every single person in this organization is lockstep moving in the same direction. You can't have it both ways. And I think they probably understood that when they went to Baker's people and when they decided that, you know what, we're willing to take this chance and we're willing to deal with the fallout that happens.

But now the fallout is here. And Sheila and I kicked around a lot of these ideas yesterday. But now it seems like if you have to move on from him and if you have to trade him to a team like the Colts or the Seahawks or let's say the Panthers, which we'll get to in a second, I think you can live with the alternatives. This is one of those situations. It's like, all right, whatever we get back in a trade for Baker, we will flip something similar to that for a Garapolo or for whoever. Or let's roll with Case Keenum. You can live for a year and you keep doors open. Is a quarterback now on the table for you in the first round if you like one of those guys and they fall?

It's just there's a way to cobble this together if you move on from Baker, but it's a pretty, like you said, Whiplash is the exact word. Because think about where we were a year from that or a year ago with Baker and with this franchise. There's so much optimism. And now it's just taken such a swing. And even if the other avenues that they could go down after moving on from Baker are tolerable, it still is so strange to be in this place if you're the Browns. It's a weird pill of swall.

It's just weird. you thought they had, they thought they had the guy. His rookie season was so exciting. And the second year was the train wreck on all, all regards. But then last year it was like, okay, this is his path. He can be kind of like a super version of this type of offense. I thought you'd be like a super version of Garopolo. Like that's kind of what the upside I thought of Baker.

Like, okay, a little more scramble and tough. The irony. Right. I know. As they potentially shift in. What is NFL stand for? Not for log. Like it just, it is what it is.

This is knowing what your quarterback is. is and what we're doing with him. Like this is just like a little sampling of why it's so difficult when ever. It's very noticeable when you don't have a guy or you're in a like weird question mark place was when the Packers announced they're playing in London. They did the little, uh, they had their players doing the whole Abby Road thing like or Penny Lane thing like, uh, from the Beatles, but they didn't have Rogers and Devante Adams up there because they weren't.

Yeah. Yeah. Everyone noticed it though. And that's yeah. When you don't have when you're in. Yeah. But that's just those question marks at that position. It becomes a very noticeable for.

not just in the building, but everybody in the world notices it. It should have been just like a little cute little ad. You know, cute little Packers are going to London, but it was like, notice it. They didn't have Aaron Rogers up there. Like everyone noticed it. Like that's what happens at the quarterback position when you have a question mark there in any way, shape, or form. And it's a drastic change from, you know, a couple, a year ago or for some, from some times in the Baker Mayfield experience in Cleveland. But I think that the idea of that moving on from him, I don't think it was a flippant decision to pursue this.

and I think that they probably come to terms with it and that they're okay with it. I think the alternatives are not necessarily worse or considerably worse than Baker Mayfield in the short term. I feel like there are ways to them to navigate this and be just fine, but it's still a little bit jarring when you consider what he was at certain points along this trajectory. All right.

Let's get to the Panthers. If the Panthers are out of this, they needed this, in my opinion, more than... I mean, I think it's pretty clear. They needed this more than any of the... their teams in this conversation. Agreed. Because they're flailing in the wind.

There's no direction to what this team has done over the last couple years. And I feel like this was just an escape hatch from whatever they were as a franchise. And if that escape hash is closed, the water level is getting real high. Oh, my God. And they're picking pick six. And that's a weird spot to take one of these quarterbacks. If you're going to, if you think this is your tab and one of these guys's pick of the future, and man, because if they go Malik Wills at pick six, who knows, they might.

That's a home run swing that takes room to grow. Like he needs a year, I think, to sit behind someone or halfway through the year, give him a chance to start. Sam Donald's on the roster, baby. Man, but that's just like such a brutal path. But if they go Ritter, I think that's a lot. I love Ritter. A little too high for that.

I would not touch any of the other guys in the first round. That's what the situation they put himself in. it's almost like they should have drafted Justin Fields in the first round last year when they had a top 10 pick. But that's the situation that they put themselves in. They'd rather trade for Darno. They create their own mess. We know that with the Panthers at this point. They just create their own messes.

And it's just as an outsider. But this was a way to clean up the mess. Again, on a football basis. This was a way. This was a way to kind of take an eraser to everything and be like, you know what? In terms of our roster, this is how we have a clean break and we're starting over. But with that off the table now, again, there's no way to get out of this. There's no easy way to clean up the football mess that they have made.

So now they're kind of sitting here and being like, what happens now? I mean, it's a rough, rough spot for Carolina. It's a rough spot and so many needs. That team, they just lost Redick. They have no lineman. Like, it's just, it's a brutal roster when you start looking at top to bottom. So they signed Andrew Norwell, sounds like. So they have Andrew Norwell and Austin Corbett now.

So, I mean, their offensive line. So they have some pieces along the offensive line, but I mean, they still have holes. They still don't have a left tackle. I mean, there are still a lot of things to be worried about with this team. And again, the Sean Watson thing was a direction. At the very least, it was a direction. And now that seems like it's off the table. It was a path to get behind.

It was like, okay, this path makes sense. I always it's, you know, it's a little roomy. It's about two lanes and we can go down this path. So you go to the Saints. I mean, the Saints are in a much better situation, roster-wise in a team like Carolina, but they were also at a point of transition, right? I mean, this is a team that what was the next era of this going to look like? And now if they do trade for Deshaun Watson, then you have your answer.

Yeah, I mean, apparently I think I saw that Armstead might be waiting to hear what the Deshaun Watson news before he does anything like to Ron Armstead, like that. Yeah, I mean, we talked about we like the Saints roster, is just have to figure out what the quarterback situation is. So it's like they, I mean, this swing would be a swing for them. Like this would like this puts the Saints kind of like a whole new tier as a team. Obviously you're getting a borderline elite guy, elite quarterback, truly elite guy. So but that's the thing is the rest of roster was nice.

Even though with the transition of Dennis Allen, I think it's going to be seamless because he's been in that Saints way. There's not much he's going to change. He has had coaching. Most of the coaching staff stays the same. It's the same, right? I think they've switched like one guy. Like it really is that much. So they made sense as far as like this is the.

on top to really take them to a new level, obviously. But they're a team in a weird transition spot too because, okay, they don't get Deshaun. Trevor Simeon, whatever's fine. James is off on the street. It looks like he's shopping around. Maybe I saw some Colts interest in him. But they're in a weird spot as well. Just because they have a lot of other things figured out.

They don't have receivers, but they'll get some. But they just don't have that quarterback spot figured out because right now it's just more like, oh, we have a below average spot starter at that spot. So I understand why they want to go. for this upgrade. Like I totally understand it as far as the on-field performance and the kind of repercussions of all the other guys that might get back or sign with them or try and take deals and yada, yada, yada, because that's the situation the Saints put themselves in every offseason.

If you look at what's happening with Atlanta, I mean, Atlanta, that's a blank slate. You have Kyle Pitts. You've Kyle Pitts. What's the corner's name? I'm blinking now. AJ Terrell. Kyle Pitts, AJ Terrell, Deshawn Watson, and you start over. And you bite the financial bowl.

with Matt Ryan, you can potentially trade him. And that's the new path for the Falcons because they don't really have a way out of this, a clear way out of what they are right now. So with the Matt Ryan thing, we've talked about this heading in to the offseason. Matt Ryan is movable. If you're a team like the Colts, I mean, you can pay for one year of Matt Ryan if they want to unload. I think it's $23 million is what you would owe Matt Ryan with a base salary and a roster

bonus, something around that. That's more than doable if you're trying to solve your quarterback. position in the short term. I'm curious what you think about this. Why do you think the Falcons are motivated to keep Matt Ryan, even Deshaun Watson aside. Like, why wouldn't they save some money? I think that it's totally justifiable that they would want him. But if you were Atlanta, why would you keep 37-year-old Matt Ryan at this stage of your franchise

build? Fear. I honestly, I have no idea. Again, God, it's just like, if it seems like it 20 years ago, but. But last year we talked about that was the time we thought that that was a window to move them because that's where this franchise is. You're not competing anymore. You're just, I liked what Arthur Smith did with that offense with a jangled mess of pieces that he had. His best outside receivers were a rookie tight end and a gadget guy and Cordero Patterson.

And he actually, they did some fun stuff. But I don't understand it because the Deshaun Watson thing, it resets their clock a little bit, you know, getting the guy in his 20s. Okay, boom. But like, I don't understand if they'd miss out on Watson, why you would want to keep Ryan. anyways because you got to get picks. They got to rebuild this whole roster. And this would get them a... See, I don't think you'd get much for him, though.

You don't? Here's, I don't think you'd get much for him at this stage. I really don't. And if you, believe that they trade him, he still takes out a $40 million cap. And it's $48 million. You don't think he gets one first? So you saved $8 million. No.

Okay. For 37-year-old Matt Ryan, I really don't think so. I don't know. Because they have no leverage. Yeah. They have no leverage. What team would be willing to give up a first round pick? The quarterback,

seats are almost filled, man. There are not that many places. Do you think the Seahawks would be willing to get up a first-round pick for 37-year-old Matt Ryan? First-round pick in like two years. Yeah, I just don't think so. I really don't. And so if you're looking at this, it's like, all right, we can keep him on the roster at 48

or we can trade him and take on a $40 million hit. You still don't want to leave a franchise to X no-name backup quarterback as you have a young roster, right? Having him in the building, culture still matters to a certain. degree. You have to decide how much it costs you. And if it's $8 million in cap savings, I can understand wanting to keep hold of Matt Ryan for one more year. Yeah. No, and that's the thing, because you can argue. I, you asked me this question right now. I could argue either way on it, like why you'd want to reset the whole team and just say, hey, let's get a clean break and let's

eat our, eat our vegetables and have a rough year and try and just rebuild. Hey, Arthur Smith, you got an extra year basically because we just wasted a year for you. Or keep a Like you said, we talk about sometimes having just, I don't want to say, God, this phrase is in my head. I was going to say an adult. Adult in the room. I was. I was about to say it. And I don't mean it because of the baker stuff.

But it's, but like having Teddy Bridgewater with the Broncos last year, I'll refer to that again. But just having competency at that position lets you just evaluate everything else. And yes, Matt Ryan is way more than competent. He's, he's still good. Like he was carrying that team last year. So that is why I could argue that as well. It's like, okay, if we do want to rebuild and get all these young. pieces. We'll do right by Matt next year. As long as we can just get some more young pieces and

build around them. I don't know who's going to play a receiver for them, who they want to evaluate at the receiver position, but it at least gives you like tangible pieces because then you go, does this right guard or right tackle actually, or does this right tackle actually suck? Or does this tight end actually? Or I shouldn't say tight end because Kyle Pitts is a freaking stud. Does this receiver actually suck or because the quarterback can't get him the ball or the quarterback's throwing hot every time because he's not good in the pocket like Matt is? So it gives you a way to evaluate. other pieces and keeps you at least in games where you're tangible. I think the resources that you would get in moving on for Matt Ryan,

I can understand deciding those resources aren't worth moving on from Matt Ryan, not having an answer at that position, all of those other things that you take into account. I get it. I can get why they would stay committed to him in a nod to Sean Watson world. All right. We are going to run through some teams that we have found, I don't know, particularly intriguing, either in our good ways or bad ways here over the first few days.

a free agency. Before we do that, though, we're going to take one more quick break. All right, before we talk about a couple of team-specific plans and halls from the last few days, I just saw that Lyle Collins had been released. I did not see that earlier today. Tom Palliserra, I believe, reported that. So that puts pretty intriguing player on the market. If you're one of these teams that needs a right tackle in which there are a bunch of them, it's the first call you make. I mean, just to see what he would want in the short term. I mean, that suddenly becomes a big name for, let's say you're the, chargers and you're trying to figure out what that spot looks like if you're the

bangles and you're still trying to figure out what that spot looks like and you have some room so i did not see that that had happened the cowboys are in a weird spot man i don't know it just they're in a weird spot i mean it's one of those things when you're paying 19 and a half million dollars to a running back you've got to make some concessions elsewhere the the ezekiel elli over jow and ramsie at in that draft will like haunt the cowboys for years and years and years like just everything else ripple effects years later it's unbelievable that's six years now i'm sorry it's it's 18.2 million for for zeke this year i'm sorry it's only 18 point thank you that's i just want to be accurate about this thank you for claire they there there's a board game i play it's called chinatown

and it's really fond highly recommend it but you basically it's a it's a bunch of trading in the game you're just training resources and in it though it's the strategy really is more trades is better like more moves is better than just one big move in that game and i feel like that's what the cowboy's philosophy is in this free agent period. It's just like, just do everything. Just do everything possible. We're cutting this guy, cutting this guy, signing this guy. Hey, we're going to switch your contract language at the last second.

But they're just like trying to do everything, everything possible. But none of it's weird. Like even like, as soon as they tag Dalton Schultz, it was like, ooh, this can be a weird. This could be a weird couple months for the cowboys. I mean, I can understand it to a certain extent, right? If you move on, the numbers I'm looking at right now, this might be wrong. looking it over the cap. If releasing him, it seems like he comes in the dead cap hit of almost $14 million.

They only save like a million dollars against the cap based on the numbers I'm looking at here. Maybe that's wrong. If it's like a post-June 1st thing, I don't know. That's something where we'd have to look into it a little bit later on. But I can understand saying, all right, he's expensive. Terrence Steel is cheap. You know, we just roll with the guy that we thought was pretty good last year. It seems to me.

That makes a little bit of sense. but it's one of those things. This team was so, so good and so, so complete by the end of last year. And it's very, very hard to have rosters like that, where it all comes together and there's just alignment with, you get a rookie like Micah Parsons that's really cheap. You hit on a one-year player like J-Ron Curse that works out for you. Randy Gregory comes back in a contract year

and is a really effective, disruptive player for your defense. By the end of the year, you're number one in defensive DVOA. You have this offensive roster where, you know, you have DAC, you have these receivers. This is a shot for you. C.D. Lamb is still on a rookie contract. Those windows are so, so hard to find. And now the moment you step out of one, the moment of season ends, things suddenly become a lot more difficult. And that is where this team find itself.

Yeah. And even like, I understand why they moved on from Amari, Mari Cooper. But it's even that. So then they lose Cedric Wilson. And then so it's like, oh, now we need a receiver. Now that becomes a what goes from a gigantic strength to, you know, it's still, I love Gallup and I love, of course, love CD Lamb. But it's, okay, but now that's a whole thing. They got rid of Blake Jarwin, I think, or something.

I think he was a casualty as well. But that was a strength. That's how much we loved them early in the year was that they can go 11 or 12 and those both good units. And they did so much stuff out of 12. Okay, so now they're taking away that. And so it's just they're creating all these crutches or taking away all the crutches that they had or away all these different fun things that they're doing. And we know we've, you can bangles a defense, you know, or it's like, you can, defenses goes up and down, up and down. Last year it was just kind of like a perfect storm of what they had and where they were at.

So it's just a weird team right now. I think L. Collins, though, I thought the charges, that's a great example. Anyone of the AFC West is probably going to call Lail Collins because they're just like, we got to block these guy. We got to block all these past rushers for six games a year. So let's try and get two good tackles if we can. So I think his phone will be, his agent's phone will be ringing off the hook because he's still a good, tangible player just about some health stuff last year. If it is a post-Jude first cut, his cap hitters only $5 million this year.

So they save $10 million against the 2022 cap and then they'll pay 8.7 next year. So that makes more sense if it ends up shaking out like that, which is what I would probably assume. All right. Let's get to a couple teams here, two teams that are in the same division and are in kind of different spots as we look at what's happened over the past week. You wanted to talk about the Jets and the plan that they've had over the last few days. So just walk me through what you have taken from the moves that the Jets have made in the first week of free agency here. Well, I read off the bat, the tight ends.

Like CJ Usama, we got to talk to him about them the other day. And Tyra Conklin from the Vikings that they signed as well. And I thought both pretty fairly reasonable deals. Usama was about right where I kind of thought he would get about a million a year, give or take. I just loved if we know about the Shanahan offenses, he loves his tight ends, not just because of kiddle and all that. But over the years, just they love being. 12 personnel and love being 21 personnel. And they'd love to 12 personnel because they can be so versatile out of it.

Out of the run game, the play action game just does so much for you. Every offense coordinator would love two workable tight ends. I'm a big fan of Usama and Conklin. I thought of them in our free agency preview show, kind of got to mention both of them because I thought they were tangible wide tight ends. You don't have to take them off the field or hide them as blockers. They're both solid blockers. And on top of that, they have good receiving skills.

Actually, kind of a nice synergy here as far as receivers. some sameness to it, but that's what I like. It's kind of like, I want to call them true Ys. I would call true H's. They're kind of that one and a half. Like they can do both things well. Kind of how Dalton Schultz was, kind of like he can do a little bit, a little bit of everything well.

Now they've got two of those guys. And I think that's going to unlock their whole offense with Corey Davis and Elijah Moore. I think it's going to be a really fun pairing. Corey Davis will be your ex. Elijah Moore, I'm guessing is the Z. Fun, like fun juice that they have on the outside there. They re-signed Braxton Barrio.

So you see their slot. guy who had a nice season last year when he really had to had to play because had nobody else. So I really like what they're doing an offense. It just made sense. They got Lake and Tomlinson. They really are trying to build through the front. I like that.

And that's just the offense and the defense lead. You know, I love the Jordan Whitehead signing. Makes sense for what Robert Salo likes to do, either being in single high or too high. He likes those physical safeties. Just thinking 49ers with Jimmy Ward and, uh, uh, uh, Jquisky, Jaquisky Tart, sorry, having those two working forward. Jordan Whitehead and Tart have a lot of sameness to them. Like they are cut from the same cloth as players.

So just imagine him now in this Jets, just that's defense. So I really liked that pairing. I thought that was good. And DJ Reed's a nice physical player. So it makes sense. They're trying to have like a little mindset change on defense. A lot of more aggressive players, it really seems like. So I just really like what they did.

And none of them were really too crazy contracts. So yeah, good job. The nice part here is. when you look at this roster as it currently exists, okay, you have Corey Davis and Elijah Moore, you have the two tight ends, offensive line, you have Bechtin, Fant at the two tackles,

Vera Tucker, Lake and Tomententh, they just signed, Connor McGovern and center. You don't have to do anything to that. Nope, right? You can walk into the season with that. Obviously, they won't. They have three picks in the top 40. If they want to pick another tackle

because they're concerned about Beckton's future, they can do that. If they want to find a receiver for someone along the way and drop that into the mix, They can do that. It's just there's a, they have a solid core right now, and they just plugged holes. They use their resource to just say, we're going to find five or six starters for reasonable money. I mean, look at what they did.

It's the fact that those two guys combined over year over year, Conco Nozama, $15 million combined, rather than going to get like a super expensive player at one of those positions. They did the same thing with the defense backs. Reed's contract isn't small, but it's still two starters for the price of one high end free agency. signing. That's what they did at a lot of these different spots. Who knows how it's going to work? Eventually, quarterback needs to hit and you need to find some players in the draft. Those are always the caveats to this. But I think if you're going to be a talent efficient team with a lot of money to spend in

free agency, there are worse ways to approach it than the way the Jets have over the past week or so. I feel like it's a sound approach. I agree. And now you can use those picks and you don't need your rookies. Like you don't need them to be stud. Totally. Now they have, if they're studs, it's great. If you get the Micah Parsons where they come, not that level, but if you get a good player as a rookie, okay, great, that's great. But now you don't need them.

So they can have time either how short or how long they want at whatever position they want to go. Now they can go BPA, best player available at their picks as opposed to going, we need a safety. We need, we need this position. And that's when you get, that's when you make bad picks is when you're saying we need this guy. We need that guy at that pick because we need a starter there. Now it's like, hey, this guy can start as a backup. Maybe in the second half of the year, he beats out our event. Or maybe he has a freaking awesome camp.

And we get, oh, wow, we just have a surprise starter with our second round pick. So it just gives them like just a lot of flexibility in a weird way. And I like it. I really do. It's like even last year with the picks, like I loved Elijah Moore. I love Michael Carter at running back. Like they're doing stuff. And again, like you said, the caveat's always going to be the quarterback.

So we'll see what happens with that. But they're giving him, they're not, they're not taking an excuse his way. they're giving him something where he can be comfortable and he can develop. It's a supporting cast. They're insulating him. They're giving him chances to succeed. I think that's what's important. The way that you just laid that out where you plug your holes in free agency and then

that allows you to draft the players in the draft, it's like, all right, we really like this guy independent of what we need in this exact moment. I remember talking to Brandon Bean a couple years ago, and that's exactly how he laid out the way that he wants to approach it, right? I just want to, instead of signing $120 million a year player, I want to sign $3.7 million dollar a year players and then I can draft whoever I feel like is the best player whenever my pick comes up. I like that.

I think as a strategy, that makes sense to me. And that's exactly what the Jets hopefully have opened themselves up to do. Are you saying Brandon Bean's smart and put together and has plans? Like, it's just, say the bills have done a good job with this a little bit. It just seems like they know what they're doing. Let's stick in the AFC East. I want to have some Patriots discourse. Let's do it.

Okay. Let's do it. The Patriots have not really done much this week outside of trading shack. Jason, they have about $10 million in salary cap space right now. They extended Nick Falk. Big time moves. The Patriots right now, according to over the cap, okay? So that's the numbers I'm looking at.

I have $10 million in salary cap space in this right now. Who's the best player on the Patriots? Oh, God. Kendrick Bourne, baby. Oh, what's his face? The safety. Frick, I'm forgetting his name from a small school. He's a hell of a player.

as I forget his name but no stars no stars am I really oh Kyle Dugger okay all right if that's the answer which I don't know that it is

that that's an issue to me and it's this this the Patriots over the last year that last free agency period and where we sit right now it is a manifestation of that meme the reaping and sewing meme

it's like when you're sewing it's like fuck yeah let's do this we're going to spend all this money we're I'm tired of losing what a terrible year 2020 was. Let's do this. We're going to spend a ton of money on tight ends. Give me Nelson Aguilar.

Give me Matthew Judon. And in the short term, they want a bunch more games. The Patriots look like a much better team in 2021 than they did in 2020. But now you're sitting here and you're paying $14.8 million for Nelson Aguilar and $28 million combined for these two tight ends and $16 million for Matt Judon. And even with the quarterback on a rookie deal, it's like, Okay. Where can this roster go? At a certain point, you need cost-controlled players in order to build a scary roster. That's how your trajectory keeps moving up.

And if you look at the way this team has drafted over the last five years, my old boss, Bill Simmons tweeted this as it was funny, the timing of it. I was putting this together and then I saw that he was tweeting about their drafts, all right? From 2017 through 2020 in the first two rounds, this is who the Patriots have come away with. 2017 they traded their first round pick for Brandon Cooks, who was on the team for a short period of time. They traded their second round pick. They traded down from the second to the third round.

What they got in exchange for that, they got Coney Ely. That's what they recouped for that trade down to the third round. 2018, Isaiah Win, first round pick. Solid player went healthy. He's had some trouble staying on the field at times. Sony-Michel with our other first-round pick. Duke Dawson with their second round pick.

2019. First round pick, Nikiel Harry. Second round pick Joe Juan Williams. 2020, Kyle Dugger and Josh Ruchet. They drafted Josh Ruchet in the second round, and then they gave Matt Judon $16 million to be one of their ad rushers.

Yeah. You know, taking runoffbacks in the first round, taking a bus at receiver in the first round. It's a lot of the stuff that we say that bad teams do. And, you know, or bad ones that we make fun of all the time.

When you don't draft well, this is what you have to do. Yep. You have to overspend for. players like this and then you sit there a year later and you look at your cap and like oh man we don't really have a lot of flexibility and we don't really have that many good players and that's where the patriots are right now and i'm sure they'll be coached up well but if you look at the roster and the way that it stacks up to other teams around the aFC we should have seen this coming because of all the money

they spent last year there's nowhere else for it to go you cap yourself out when you build this way it doesn't matter what the logo is on your jersey or on your helmet if you do it do it it this way, you're going to run into a ceiling. And that's what's happened to New England. If you look at where this team is now, even compared to where it was at the end of last year. Yeah. I mean, one of their strengths of their team last year was the line. And they just lost their center. They might lose Trent Brown. They decided to trade Shaq Mason as a retirement gift for Tom Brady for this next season. Like, you know, look at the market just for guards. And then Shaq Mason, who is a very good guard, very good, going for short.

scraps. And it's like moves like that, we would roast other teams through the Coles if they did that. Like we would just drag them. Just like have so much fun with it on this show. We'd get our laughs and for whatever reason, like you say, because they have the helmet that like that logo, we kind of like, oh, you know, they might know something. But that just a lot of weird moves to me and a lot of like, yeah, patching up stuff that when you had Tom Brady, it's a lot, it smelled a lot better. Like you could do these types of things. It's like, yeah, we got number 12. He'll win us 10 games. just by himself. And then now it's,

you got Mack Jones in the second year. What do we say that one of his things that's, you know, he's not a creator. Like he is just, that's his limitation. He's a great, great on time passer,

very accurate, but he's not the creator that we have talked about with some of these other guys. Now you're taking away three spots on his old line. They have a new old line coach or, or newish old line coach. They still need a big receiver.

Like they really need size. So this is, it's in direct contrast to what we were saying about the Jets. Now, if you're the Patriots, you need to, come away with a pass catcher in the first two rounds you need to and it's this is ultimately in the way that i see this stuff free agency off season the moves that you have to make

where are your pivot points how much flexibility do you have that's what cap space is for that's what resources are for it's so you don't paint yourself into a corner with how you have to build your team and right now the patriots not being able to trade for calvin ridley and moves like that, that fizzles, and now you still need that pass catcher. You've painted yourself into a corner. That's what it feels like with New England in this moment. Yeah. The Aguilar, I mean, even the Agarar signing last year was so weird because it was just a one-year-one.

Yes. It was even in the time. It makes no sense. That's what bad teams do. Yep. Yep. Like, good team signed Kedrick Bored, but bad teams signed Nelson Aguilar after one year like that. But even the John Huss Smith.

We love John Hussmith, but he's limited, he's limited what he's good at. He has a super role. player type. And they're playing, they had games where they just made him inactive, like a healthy scratch. Like that, I think they did. Or maybe he was banged up and they like eased them back like the Patriots do. But his role was diminished at the very least last year compared to what you would have expected.

And again, $25 million a year for those two guys this year. $15 million a year for the two guys of the Jets have. That's a 10 million. That's a player. That's two starters potentially. Like those sort of gaps end up mattering. All right. Last thing.

We have to get out of here. It sounds like Zadarius Smith is not going. to Baltimore. So we'll see what happens with that. That opens, like we mentioned with the past rushing market, how it was starting to dry up a little bit. That puts a name back out there. I think he realized he's like, whoa, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Am I the 30th? Hold on. Hold on one second. Is that ink dry? No, hold on one sec. So we will pick that up whenever that signing happens. For now, that's all we have. Really appreciate you guys listening.

Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. please subscribe to the athletic theathletic theathletic.com slash football show we will be back here in the coming days not sure exactly what the plan is going to look like pay attention to you I'll tweet it out I'll let you guys know but for now that's all we have from day forward for agency I appreciate you guys listening we'll talk to you soon this was the athletic football show