The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - From Super Bowl or Bust to Mock Draft Enthusiasts, breaking all 32 teams into six tiers; Plus, Davante Adams to the Jets and Amari Cooper to the Bills

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Never a dull moment for the New York Jets, huh? The Athletic's Jets beat reporter Zack Rosenblatt joins Robert Mays on this episode of The Athletic Football Show to break down the tumultuous week in Jets land. Then, David Helman from Fox Sports hops on with Robert to separate all 32 teams into six tiers, from Super Bowl or Bust (think Chiefs, Ravens, Lions) to Mock Draft Enthusiasts (think Panthers, Browns, Patriots).RundownDavante Adams traded to JetsBehind the Robert Saleh firingSuper Bowl or BustLocked-In Playoff TeamsDeserving Wild CardsClinging to Playoff DreamsBREAKING: Amari Cooper to the Bills!Outside Looking InMock Draft EnthusiastsHost: Robert MaysWith: Zack Rosenblatt and David HelmanExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Zack on X: @ZackBlattFollow David on X: @davidhelman_Theme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert May's great midweek show for you guys today. It's a big week in Jets World. We have our fantastic Jets writer from the Athletic Zach Rosenblatt on to walk us through all of the Jets-related news. Chat a little bit about last night's Monday night football game and just discuss what the Devante Adams trade and all of these moves are actually for. After that, welcome my good friend David Hellman from the NFL on Fox podcast. We're six weeks in.

and I feel like we have a decent handle on these teams. It's time for team tiers. Very simple. Nothing crazy about this idea. Nothing out of the ordinary. We are going to tier every single team in the NFL. We had six different categories that we were dropping these teams into. Really enjoyed this conversation with David.

It felt like it was the right time in the calendar to do a little bit of a check-in about the overall landscape of the league. So we had some really good discussions about four or five teams in particular that I think we saw a little bit differently. So excited for you guys to hear. that. Let's get to it. Joining us now, it is our, let's say, busy Jets writer here at the Athletic. It's Zach Rosenblacks. How are you, man?

I'm busy, as always. It's never a dull moment when you cover this team, but especially over the last week or so. We typically reserve the start of these shows to recap Monday Night Football. That is originally what we were going to do with you. We scheduled this conversation a week and a half ago, almost two weeks ago, because I wanted to talk to somebody about Jets bills. Obviously, the Jets were going through some interesting stuff. Robert Sahl had not been fired yet. Devante Adams had not been traded yet. So now this conversation is going to take a somewhat different shape, given the news that has trickled out, the news that

has exploded honestly over the last week or so about the Jets. Let's start with today's news, the biggest news from this morning. The Jets do trade for Devante Adams is a conditional third round pick. The conditions on this are fucking hilarious. It turns into a second round pick if Adams is a first or second team all pro, it's week six. He's missed the past two games. Or if he's on the active roster for the AFC championship game or Super Bowl, if we get there, then I'm sure they'll be fine giving away a second round pick as part of the process. But this finally does happen. The news that's been reported around it is that this was already in place or the framework of it had already been a little bit further down the road before last night's game. So this is not a reaction to losing

last night to the bills. Walk me through some of the context around what ultimately got this done and maybe what it points to about the Jets mindset as it relates to this season. You know, I think ironically, Woody Johnson's decision to fire Robert Sala was a sign that he's all in on this season. At least that's how he's like approaching the situation. He fired him with the idea that it would boost the team and then he made this trade with the idea that it would boost the offense. And so that's kind of the mindset he's going with. And, you know, you could argue with, you know, the thought process behind the firing and the timing of it and why didn't you do in the off season and all that stuff, which everybody's

talked about the last few days. But ultimately, yeah, you know, Devante Adams, is he the biggest need they have on the roster right now? No, you know, they had two receivers had 100 yards on Monday night and they still lost. Obviously, Devante brings a little more to the table offensively than Alan Lazard. And, you know, you probably don't play Mike Williams as much anymore. But ultimately, they, this just increases. ceiling of the offense. It gives Aaron Rogers his favorite receiver he's probably ever played with.

They have that chemistry. What it means for the rest of the guys in the roster and how everybody feels about it is another combo. But yeah, I think it raises the ceiling of the offense to say the least. And maybe, you know, those red zone drives that they didn't close out this last game or just in general this season, maybe they closed them out a little better if you have Devante Adams and flanking Garrett Wilson as opposed to just Garrett kind of running running free. It's a decent amount to give up for a 12 game rental. in-game rental, whatever's going to end up being. But this feels like an in-for-a-penny,

in-for-a-pound sort of situation as it relates to the Jets. I think they're probably operating as though Rogers is going to be back next year. Would you say that's true? Yeah. I mean, it's obviously complicated based on like however the season goes. But yeah, I think the idea is that it works out this year and then they bring them back next year. Why that's important is typically you need all the draft capital you could possibly

muster in a draft where you're going to try to go get a quarterback, in a situation where you don't have a quarterback for now and for the future. If he's going to be back in 2025, that I think it makes it a little bit easier to part with a mid-round pick that you're not going to need as ammunition or as an additional sweetener, try to find a quarterback somewhere along the way. So even if it is a decent amount to give up, even if this team probably isn't thrusting itself into Super Bowl contentioned by dropping Devante Adams on the roster, at this point, it's like, What are we going to do? Why not? We might as well do this.

I think that is a better way to put my reaction to the trade than anything. Like, why not? Like, it doesn't, it doesn't hurt them. They didn't really, ultimately in the grand scheme of things, if it works out, they didn't give up that much. If it works out, Rogers comes back. I imagine Devante would want to come back. Like, there are a lot of questions about what the team's going to look like a year from now, whether Rogers is here or not. They don't have a great cap sheet. They have a lot of old guys. you know, a guy like Tyrant Smith doesn't, hasn't looked like they hoped. They have a guy they drafted in the first round. They can play next year in Olu Fashnu. But yeah, you know, I think this is very much a right now decision and we'll deal with the consequences of later, later kind of thing.

And that's kind of the jets have operated like that for a long time, I would say. But this is like the more extreme version of it because it's in the middle of the season. It's just the timing, like you said, this was a thing that was pretty much agreed to before the game yesterday. but it's just like it's such perfect timing for the Jets to do this when they're two and four there's all this noise swirling about oh did Rogers get solid fired which I don't think he did but like that's swirling and then they go and get his best friend when they're two and four they have this big hole they're already in if they lose to the Steelers like I mean you could argue

that I mean it's not over over but like the odds of them like coming back from two and five is going to be pretty hard too so it's very interesting it's very jets like they a week could go this time. They fire their coach. They demote Nathaniel Hackett. Hassan Redick situation is still swirling. There's been like three different updates since Robert Sallo is fired. And now they trade for Devante Adams. And it's just, yeah, I mean, it's just never a dull moment is the only way to keep describing the Jets. A ready fire aim mindset, would you say that that was a, that's fair? I mean, I don't have the quote in front of me. Woody Johnson spoke at the owner's meetings today. And he said something like thinking is overrated or something like that. So it's a quote that

definitely won't come back to bite him in the future, I'm sure. Yeah, I think thinking is overrated the day after Bill Belichick Barry's National Television. It's pretty perfect, yeah. It's always a fun time with this team. You mentioned this maybe isn't the biggest need on the roster. It is still a neat. If you look at the construction of their wide receiver corps, Mike Williams is done next

to nothing coming off of that ACL. Alan Lazard is probably best suited as a three. The problem is the money you spent on potential other solutions at those secondary and tertiary receiving spots and the fact that you still need to go out. and get at Defonte Adams, I think speaks to the quality of those moves. Totally. I mean, look, I, Jets fans celebrating Mike Williams signing as if they won a Super Bowl when they got him because they're the offseason champions always. And now it's like, no, he's terrible. Let's get him out of here. They moved on very quickly. But like, he's coming off

an ACL and he's relying on his speed and his ability to go up and get passes. Like, I was always skeptical. And then he missed the entire training camp. And the reality of Aaron Rogers, especially at this stage, which he was like, you need time with him in order for him. to get used to playing with you. Like the whole thing last night, Aaron kind of threw him under the bus after the game where he said Mike being generous. Yeah,

he threw him under the bus on Monday night, saying that Mike ran the wrong route on that game ending interception. And that just kind of goes into like, Garrett Wilson and Aaron Rogers were going through all those same issues. And they had all of the last two training camps together. So, yeah, you know, the Mike Williams thing is interesting. But yeah, to your point, like they've invested all this money in receivers that haven't panned out.

Like, Lizar's having a nice year to start out. He's very clearly only relying on Aaron Rogers throwing him the ball. He was an absolute disaster last year. They probably don't keep him after this year based on his contract. So you basically got one out of two decent years from a guy. You made the highest paid receiver in free agency last year. And, you know, they have done a poor job of getting Tyler Conklin involved. And Malachi Corley's been a healthy scratch for two straight weeks. He's a guy in the third round. They kept hyping up how much they loved him. So outside of Garrett Wilson, there's not a lot that you could feel like great about week-to-week basis. Are they going to contribute? So that's

To your point, like they needed to go and get Devante Adams because the other receiver moves did not work ultimately. I feel like if you saw the way they were deploying Garrett Wilson last night, it's a lot of crossers, a lot of screens, a lot of underneath stuff. And I think that's where they see him as the best fit within this offense. They still need a downfield explosive target. And Devante Adams being able to slot into that role, I actually think that the chemistry with Wilson does make sense based on how the Jets seem to see Wilson as a player. So I'm excited to see what it looks like. I think there are enough other issues going on with this offense that it might not matter in the end. And we can talk about a couple of those.

But in a vacuum, I understand why you'd be motivated to go out and do this other than appeasing your quarterback because you just brought in a guy that he likes to play with. Let's talk about the rest of this week and how it's unfolded and what it all means for this franchise. I wanted to ask you this very plainly. Ultimately, what do you think was the final straw and at the end of the day the reason that they decided to make this all? a move as somebody who knows this team. It was pretty shocking, even though, like, I, you'd gotten a sense that Woody wasn't a huge fan of Robert by the end of last season. And that's kind of why, you know, part of the reporting Diana and I had on our story in

January was that one of the reasons they didn't fire him is because they weren't very confident they could go out and get anybody better than him. So they kind of just like, let's, I know. God. So you run it back. And I do think there are some skepticism. them high up. But still, like, if you're willing to fire a guy after five games, then you probably should

have fired him in the offseason anyway. And hire a Mike Rable was such an easy fit for what they need. And there's Titans coaches on this staff already and all that stuff. But yeah, you know, so ultimately, you know, after that Broncos game, well, first of all, after week one, they get killed by the 49ers. I know Woody was very angry. He's a very emotional owner. And I think he's very reactive as a lot of these billionaire guys with their teams are, which

kind of like a lot of the dysfunctional teams. It starts at the top ultimately. So I know he was angry after that game. I think everybody felt a little better after the next couple of games. They looked a little better against the Titans. They looked really good against the Patriots. After the Broncos game, I think that was kind of the come-to-Jesus moment where they had like a meeting, I think the day after the game or a couple days after the game between

Woody and, you know, the team president and Robert. And I think maybe Joe Douglas was there. And it was apparently a pretty, you know, it was pretty eye-opening meeting in terms of how upset with the product they were. And then you go to London and you're in a place that Woody values very dearly in London. I'm sure he had a lot of his buddies there at the game. Sam Donald is a quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings and the Jets have the same issues they've had, penalties, bad offense, like all the same exact stuff over the entire solid tenure. And so Woody, by all accounts, woke up on Tuesday and decided this was it and he wanted to make a move.

And Jeff Ulbrix, a guy that's gotten a lot of positive publicity. And I think Woody is someone who reads the press clippings. So, you know, and that's not to say I don't think Jeff deserves it. The Niners sniffing around, man. Yeah, the Niners wanted him. And I think he was interested in that as well. But the Jets said no. And the irony is they said no.

And then he wound up replacing the guy that said no. But so, yeah, it's, it was jarring, especially because Woody's never fired a head coach in season. Like that's something in his 25 years. And he's had reasons to. He had Adam Gase has his head coach. Like he, he's had reasons to fire his head coaches and he never has. So it was, it was pretty jarring. I don't think Aaron Rogers expected it.

at the very least this last week, like in my head, if they had kept going down the path, it felt like they were going, I thought you get through the Bills game and the Steelers. And if they at that point had kept losing game after game, same mistakes, then maybe you'd look at a change. But yeah, so here we are. It's still kind of surreal. Like it doesn't feel like it happened just because of the timing of everything and it being in the middle of the week and all that stuff. But they wanted to get a boost. And I wasn't entirely encouraged by the effort on Monday night. It was a lot of the same stuff.

But, you know, I'll give Jeff the benefit of the doubt, Jeff Oldbrick, because, you know, he got hired on Tuesday, changes play callers on Thursday. It's a very short turnaround to, you know, you don't realize you're going to be a head coach and all of a sudden you're the head coach. Like, I can't even imagine what the whirlwind he was going through. But if they come back against the Steelers and look the same way, then I'm going to be a little concerned. Usually when you fire a coach in season, period, let alone five games into the year. It's because you are an openly embarrassing product. I don't think the Jets were that. If it was disappointing, fine.

I think that they were probably disappointing based on what the preseason expectations felt like. But this wasn't a team that was embarrassing itself on national television every single week. And that's why I was a little bit surprised. And I'm willing to admit, I don't know the dynamics in the building, you know, why guys feel a certain way

if this was going to have a quieter impact than we might expect. Because even if the offense is the problem, maybe you get a little bit more juice out of pretty much everybody if you change the voices at the top. And the word that has been used 17,000 times over the last week is accountability. Everybody with a microphone, everyone that's had a microphone stuck in their face that's involved

with the organization has used it. What does that word mean in these terms and why do you think people keep pointing to it as the reason, as what needed to change and why there was a change at the head coaching spot? Yeah, you know, in theory, it should be about, you know, over over and over again, Robert, to his detriment or to his credit, like, he very much was, like, always going to lean on the side of, like, the players, and he's a play, he likes having a player run team, and he likes people holding each other accountable as opposed to him having to do all of that all the time and, you know, making guys run laps or punishing them and this, this and this. And I, so the way I was hoping and the way it sounded as, as it was coming out of

everybody's mouth last week, is like, we all need a, I mean, the main thing was the offense I've been struggling. And so I think guys needed to, like, look in the, the mirror and accept their responsibility when they were not doing their jobs. And I don't know if that wasn't happening before based on how many people said the word accountability. I don't think it maybe it was. But in my head, I think accountability. Like this team is always way to way too long to move on from a guy to bench a guy to cut a guy. And, you know, it's only one game. But like Greg Zerline, for example, like he's had a really bad year. He had a bad summer and he's looked really bad so far. And he has a history of this where he has a couple good years. And then he then he starts

to kind of fade away. And, you know, they've lost two games you could argue largely because he missed field goals. So, like, accountability to me would be you bring in competition for him and say, like, your job's not safe, even though you've been so good for us the last couple of years. So, you know, Jeff Ulberg has time to, like, show that's what he wants to do. And I think a willingness to, like, criticize when Aaron Rogers is struggling publicly would also be a step forward, I think, for this locker room because I think sometimes there's kind of some fear of criticizing the head honcho. But yeah, so I don't know. Right now it just sounds like words that you say,

and a thing that you say when you make a coaching change, but will it actually amount to anything is what we need to see. One specific example, I think, would be replacing your offensive play caller. Yeah, totally. And they were trying to do that before Robert Sallel was fired. What do you think ultimately was the motivation behind going to Todd Downing from Nate Hackett? What were they trying to get out of that move?

Some juice. like I mean something different is a reasonable answer something different is the main thing like so ultimately this off season and diana and i had this in our story in january and she expanded on it with all the names but um so arthur smith had been a name that i know i knew that they talked to this off season and diana reported eric b enemy um luke getsy and there was one more i'm blanking off the top of my head uh she talked to basically these oh cliff kingsbury they're they talked to these guys about bringing in like basically another offensive mind. They claim not to like take away play calling here from Nate, but more to have a collaborative play calling process. Like basically like maybe Nate's starting out

and then eventually they give it off to somebody else. Just basically to bring another voice in the room because, you know, Nathanielacket offenses are just, they're bland. Like they, the receivers have long developing routes. They run, run pass. Like they telegraph when they're running the ball. Like it's all this obvious stuff. And they just, he was just not good at adjusting. And so I think if you wanted to provide a boost for this team, I don't think, it was firing Sala at all from the beginning. I think it was always demoting or firing Nathaniel Hackett in my mind because the offense has been the issue. They run the same plays. You hear Garrett Wilson showing his frustration every week and it just was not getting better. And so you bring in Todd Downing

and he wasn't perfect on Monday night by any stretch, but he was doing a lot of stuff they haven't been doing. They ran motion on the majority of their plays, which they've really gotten away from over these last couple weeks. I know Rogers historically doesn't like it, but they were starting to do at the beginning of the year, then got away from it and just more creativity, trying to get the ball at Brees and Garrett Wilson in space and, you know, just doing the things that for whatever reason, Hackett, just like he would do it for a week and then for the next couple weeks, they'd go back to being boring and conservative. And he just was never good at adjusting. And so ultimately, this was always the move. I think there was a push from, I think some people maybe would have been

happy if they did this last season, but you had to factor in Rogers coming back the next year. And ultimately, Hackett's still here and he was still the offensive coordinator because Rogers didn't want him to be fired. So, I mean, they can, they can frame it how they want. I don't think Rogers pushed for Sala to get fired because he was going to demote Hackett because they wound up demoting Hackett anyway. But ultimately, Hackett's only here because of Rogers. And it's pretty clear that downing is at the very least a more creative play caller. All right. So let's think about the downing of all of this and then adding Devante Adams to the product that we saw on Monday night. Here's some things I wanted to talk to you about because if we're trying to find weak points that

have nothing to do with the passing game to an extent, you know, or what Robert Sal was impact on all of this is. A couple things I would come back to. The past protection seems to be a concern. Yeah. Right. I mean, Tyron Smith comes in after having a fantastic season last year. Is he healthy right now? By all accounts, yes. He gets veteran rest days just about every day. Like he did with the Cowboys last year. He looked great in training camp, but he is a good guy who's like a physical freak and is probably always going to look good in training camp. And I think maybe I overvalued that because if you look at this off season, the Jets were the only team that offer him in a contract. And I think that probably says something about what the league thought about where Tyrant Smith is.

And so far he's been pretty disappointing. I don't think he's been like terrible. But he's given up, I think, five sacks. And he gave him more than three twice in his career like before this year. So he has not looked good. And the sacks he gives up are like no doubt like one on one. He beat you. Like AJ Appanessa beat him twice on Monday night.

And so that's been the most concerning thing. Like the rest of the offensive line been inconsistent, but I think pretty solid. I think Tyrant Smith's the one that's been the most concerning to me, which is alarming. You would hope that that can get better. If Tyrant Smith is the worst bit of your offense and we've seen the level he can play at over the last couple years, that you could spin that as potentially a positive. But watching him last night, Epinescent got him with that two-hand swipe. It was a no doubt about her.

And then he failed to pick up a stunt too, and he just kind of looked creaky. You know, and there were a couple of plays he had in space where I was like, oh, he seems to be moving okay, but that's just something that just feels off about him right now. And, again, that's just something that's not getting better by bringing in Devante Adams. And I think acknowledging where the weaknesses are and figuring out how to put those in context about what this team looks like moving forward, that's important. I will say, if we stick with the offense very briefly, I did like what the running game looked like yesterday compared to some of the struggles that they had had earlier in the season. Going against the bills is a nice part of that. The bills have struggled to defend the run.

But seeing Breece Hall get involved and show a little bit of juice on the ground, that's very nice to see. And if they can ride a little bit of that moving forward, combined with bringing in Adams, we'll see what that means for the offense. on defense, this team just doesn't seem to have the same teeth on that side of the ball that it's had over the last couple years. And I think the spot that I would come back to is just the spine of the defense, period. What they have next to Quinn and Williams right now, I mean, just Javon Kinlaw got blown off the ball multiple different times on that first drive. I think they're missing CJ Mosley.

And I think that the safety group just isn't what it's been when this team has been at its best. and that's an issue where I don't know how that gets better. I mean, if this is just going to be an average defense the rest of the way and your offense is shooting for average, where does that leave you? And I guess that's kind of how I feel about this team after last night and through the first six weeks. You say that's fair? Absolutely.

The defensive line, in my opinion, is the biggest concern on this roster, even more. Like the offensive line, I think, has shown an ability to play well. The D line, they feasted on bad offensive lines. the Titans, the Patriots games. They did really well. Will McDonald, I think, has seven sacks. And he has had some really good pass rushing reps, but he's not good against the run. And I don't think he's, like, winning one-on-one, like a lot, a lot.

And so you have Will McDonald. Okay, you say he's a plus. Outside of that, like Michael Clemens has been a mess on the other side. You mentioned Javon Kinlaw. Like, they're rotating in these undrafted rookies at defensive end. Like, this used to be the strength of this team. They had a great defensive line. They rotated everybody.

And the whole thing was they didn't blitz at all. They just won their one-on-one matchups up front. And so that allowed you to get a little more creative on the back end. They've never really invested in the safety position because they didn't really feel like they needed to because everything was winning up front. You have these two elite linebackers and C.J. Mosley and Quincy and you have maybe the best corner tree on the league. But this D-line just does not get off blocks. They've really struggled in the run game. It's been a weakness to a back last year.

It's gotten a lot worse because, like you said, you don't, like you said, you don't, Quinnin thrives when he has really good players around him. because if he's eating the double and triple team blocks, then those other guys are feasting. Or if you pull the second or third blocker away from him, then he can go and feast too. And so he hasn't really had a chance to do that. And it's, like you said, CJ Mosley's been out. Jamie and Sherwood's a young guy.

He's been okay in there, but he's not the captain of defense. He doesn't see it the way C.J. Mosley does. And I think that's been a big issue in the running game, mistackles. Like it's been disappointing, especially at the starting games. They started out at this last game.

Jeff Obrick's been the defensive coordinator, like the architect, along with Sala, but the architect of this defense over the last few years. And it come out like kind of lifeless and getting, you know, ran down your throat. And then you lose DJ Reed to a groin injury. DJ Reed has been one of the best corners in the league this year. Michael Carter the second, their nickel corners out. Chuck Clark just went on injured reserve while we're recording.

So that's three of your starting defensive backs. And so, yeah, I have concerns about this defense more than the offense, which is not something I thought I'd say covering the New York Jets. So that brings me to kind of my final question here as we wrap. this up. You fire Robert Sala, you trade for Devante Adams. What is this all for? Like, I'm not even trying to be mean or negative. I was thinking about that. To what end is all this for? I mean, there's nobody that's watching the Jets and thinks this team can win a Super Bowl, right? So you're looking at a team that is doing everything in their power. They're trading for all

these guys. They're signing all these guys. They're doing whatever you can to make Aaron Rogers happy or changing offensive coordinator, changing head coaches. And it feels like the ceiling is making the playoffs at this very moment, which, you know, if you look at the roster, like, this is a roster that on paper should be more than that. And so I, you have, so they're going to have to really reflect on like how they got here where they're just like fighting tooth and nail to even compete for a playoff spot because that's what's going to happen here. They're two and four with some hard games coming up. Pittsburgh this week. The Texans in a couple of week, the schedule gets a little easier after that, but the Jets haven't really shown

an ability to just beat up teams that are, they're supposed to beat up. So like, yeah, I mean, I think that's that's the part where like how we were kind of joking earlier about like the reaction that devante's like why not and that's kind of where it's at it's like why not like it can't really get worse so you might as well try get a little bit better and yeah i don't know like erin rogers is as much as he shows some flashes of being the erin rogers of old he's not he's he definitely looks old he's beat up the odds of him getting through the season if he keeps getting hit as much as he is i just don't see it so um yeah i mean the ceiling is feels lower than it did at the start of the season, which if you had told me, well, the Jets are going to trade for

Devante Adams and after week six, I would say, okay, well, they're going for a Super Bowl run, but it feels like they're trying to recover from this whole day, dug themselves and just sneak into the playoffs. And it's unfortunate because they had a lot higher hopes than that. And, you know, some of the decisions they've made have backfired, especially this Han Redick one in particular. Just from a self-preservation standpoint, I can understand it, right? If you're Joe Douglas and good leadership here, it's like, yeah, what does he have to lose? What does he Yeah. If we do make the playoffs, then at least we can make a reasonable case to ownership at the end of the year. Hey, look at this. Look, this is real tangible progress. We're banged up on defense. You know, we have the midseason coaching change. Let's ride one more year with this and let's just see what we can do with another off season to tweak a couple more things. Maybe we can bring Devante back and then let's take one more run out with Aaron. That feels like the rationalization here. And that feels like the goal here. And even if that's underwhelming, sometimes those are just.

the realities that we live with when you're thinking about what's motivating NFL teams to make these decisions. Yeah, you know, it's the Jets have lacked foresight in their decision making for a while. For a long time, it was, you know, the ready fire aim joke. I think Joe Douglas, for the most part, did a pretty good job of building up a really good roster. Like, he had a good long-term vision. And I think sometimes, I mean, he deserves some criticism too. Like a lot of his moves haven't panned out for sure. But I think when you have an owner who just wants to win right now, they haven't made the playoffs for 13 years. Everybody's tired of waiting. It's a really eager fan base. And I think Woody reads everything. And so you start to rush things. You push things maybe a little too soon. Like this should

have been a two-year project. And I think the decisions they made last year, they just kind of assume they'd be good. And then when it all backfired, it all went to hell. And then now the roster has taken a hit in a lot of ways and because of some bad decisions. And this is kind of where they're at. This is where they're at. They're fighting to make the playoffs where they were supposed to be fighting for a lot more than that. Aaron Rogers doesn't go to the, force his way to the Jets if he thinks they're just going to be fighting to make the playoffs. And I think he's kind of finding out what same old Jets means because it's, uh, it's been a uphill climb and there's, there's obstacles in the way that sometimes are self-inflicted. So it's, uh, it's been a learning experience for him.

I'm sure akin to, you know, going into his, his tent and going on ayahuasca. With that, Zach Rosenblatt, sincerely appreciate the time, my friend. Always good to chat with you. Talk to you soon. Yeah, thanks for having me, buddy. All right, we're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to get back with my buddy, David Helman. Joining us now from the NFL on Fox podcast and a longtime friend of this show. It's my buddy, David Helman.

Dave, how are you doing mine? It's good to be back, man. It's that time of year. Like, we got a pretty solid sample size. I'm ready to talk some balls, some league landscape with you. Let's do it. It's the perfect time to do this. I was very much looking forward to doing this exercise,

because I think if we had tried to do it, like two weeks ago, we would have shone our asses a little bit because we didn't know enough to actually have real conversations about these teams. I do feel like six weeks in, the league landscape has started to crystallize enough that we can make, if not definitive statements on where these teams are, then at least inform statements on where these teams are. So what we're going to do today, very simply, is put the teams into tiers. We're going to tier all 32 teams. We've broken this up into six categories, and I'm going to lay out the categories for you guys now. One, Super Bowl or bust, self-explanatory.

Two, locked-in playoff teams. So teams that we just feel very good are going to be in the postseason, even if they're not quite at the tippy top of the league. Three, deserving wild cards. So teams that have an inside track to a playoff spot aren't scraping and clawing to get there. A lot of teams that actually are penciled into wildcard spots right now. four clinging to your playoff dreams so you haven't given up hope yet but things are starting to slip away a little bit five i'll call this outside looking in so teams that aren't going to be picking in the top five because are probably too good but for one reason or another their season has slipped away from them a little bit

and then six mock draft enthusiasts teams that everybody in their building is going to be reading dain brugler for the next nine months because that's all they have to look forward to i i did these categories because we're just trying to figure out what felt right, how many buckets felt right, were there teams that were on the line. And divvying it up this way, I felt very good about where I could place everybody. I hear you, but some of these, some of these are like they, you're extrapolating a little bit. And like, I don't want to give anything away. I don't want to give anything away. But like, you know, I'm going to talk about some teams that I think should have Super Bowl aspirations based on what we've seen where clearly the list is going to be much shorter as we go.

And for the same thing, like the concept of a deserving wild card could could change like so drastically. So yeah, we definitely have a better idea of what to expect than we did say two weeks ago. But I'm, I'm a little nervous. But I'm, I got to make the kind of nervous. So I'm inherently in an advantageous spot here. And for Super Bowl or bust, before we. we dig into this. This for me is like the tippy,

tippy, tippy top. These are the teams that based on where they are, their timeline, everything, these aren't teams that can win the Super Bowl. Because I think there are some that are going to be in the locked in playoff category that potentially if things break right, they could win the Super Bowl. But I just think that they're just in a slightly different tier than the teams I'm going to put in number one. See, I think this will be good because, and I say this every time I come on, I listen to your show a lot.

I think you and I have different ideas. of these things. Like I, like you are, you're a much more rigid greater than I am, whereas I kind of like, I'm a big fan of like squinting. I'm like, I can squint and see that.

So I've, I've got a few, like I've got a long list of teams that I think should see themselves as a Super Bowl contender right now. So I'm excited to do this. All right. Let's kick it off. Why don't you start with your Super Bowl or bus teams?

You want me to all of them? Who are the easiest ones for you to throw on here? Who are the no doubt about it? write it in pen. I'm not even going to hesitate to put them in this category. So right now, I think there's three that just it goes without saying we don't need to spend a lot of time talking about it. And it's Kansas City, Baltimore, Detroit. I just, I feel fantastic about all those teams. And even with the things that they're going to, you know, have to overcome, I mean, it's crazy that we feel so good about the chiefs considering what they've lost on offense this

season. But they're the chiefs. How could we not? Same thing goes. for Detroit, it sucks that they lost Aiden Hutchinson the other day. I think that's going to be a problem for them, but I feel so good about everything else with that team that it doesn't change my overall outlook on them. So, and you know what? I think even though they really haven't, they haven't looked like it to this point, but I think you probably got to throw Houston onto that list as well. Houston. Interesting. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I look at it in terms of of like in terms of pieces and like you got the quarterback you got the offensive firepower you've got like a pass rush from hell and and they're like they're five and one robert without really ever looking

like a truly dominant team and their one loss is to one of the only unbeatens in the league so i feel fine throwing them into that list although i do think there's probably a gap between them and the other three that i mentioned okay how many teams total do you have in the super bowl of us category I'm going to say three, four, five, six, six. Okay, six. Okay, I thought it was going to be more than that. Because if you had like eight, I was going to say, who did you put in the locked in playoff teams category?

No, I have six. So other than that, other than the ones I just mentioned. Let's talk about the ones you just mentioned because I think the first three teams I wrote down were the Lions, the Chiefs, and the Rings. That, that to me is an easy one. I think that what Detroit is doing on offense right now, even with Aiden Hutchinson concerns, feel great about it. The Chiefs, it's a weird version.

of the Chiefs based on the injuries they've had on offense, but I think what they are offensively and defensively, it's not that dissimilar to where they were a year ago when they were the Super Bowl champion, and I think that they're still one of the best three or four teams in the league. Right now, if you look at it, they are fourth in total team DVOA, which is not surprising at all.

Ravens, same sort of deal. They're rolling on offense. They're above average on defense, feel very, very good about where that team is. I had one more, and based on record, this probably isn't deserving, but I think that the quality of team we're talking about the talent that they have and their track record makes me feel good about putting them

in here. And that is the San Francisco 49ers. I'm not going to give you any pushback. They're, they're on my list as well. The Niners are. And, you know, I think it, it speaks to what they've shown us over the last three years that they could be three and three. And a couple of those losses are just stinky. I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the Cardinals game, blowing the Rams game, clearly not just not looking like themselves. And I know they've had injuries, but I still expect them to win games as like a touchdown plus favorite despite that. But the track record, the talent,

you've seen plenty of flashes of it. Like I'm not worried about them in the big picture. They just, they haven't looked on the same level as some of those other teams. Are they not even in that category for you? No, no, no, no, they are. No, they're on my Super Bowl list. All right, they're one of your sex.

But like, for instance, the, you know, Detroit, Baltimore, Kansas City, like, these are teams where for one reason or another in the first six of the, first six weeks of the season, we've looked at them and been like, holy shit. Whereas I don't think we've had a holy shit moment from the San Francisco 49ers to this point. I think that's totally fair. But I think, like you said, the only team to definitively outplay them by a decent amount is the Vikings. Like, that's the only game where they actually got beat up. And the other two, those games just slipped away from them. I feel very good about, very good might be strong. I feel confident in where they're going to be by the end of the year,

especially if they get McCaffrey back and just the history that tells us a lot about what that team can accomplish. So those are the four teams that I had. Who's your other one other than Houston? I don't want to do this. And if I'm falling prisoner to the moment, that's fine. But why shouldn't the Vikings be on this list? I have them on mine.

This is going to be the most controversial. I think. And it is. And, and, you know, maybe, maybe I'm course correcting because I was late to jump on the bandwagon, but it's, it's not just that they're five and oh. I mean, they've beaten, they've beaten two of the teams we're talking about here. Like, they beat the shit out of Houston. They beat San Francisco. They've, I think they've got the best, or at least one of the best resumes in the NFL. Like, it's, it's been, like, they've sustained it over five weeks against some really good competition. Sam Darnold, I know he's gotten away with some things over the course of this season. He definitely hasn't been perfect. But if you can, what? I mean, didn't they go, they went San Francisco, Houston, Green Bay all in a row. If you can win those three games in a row, why can't you make a run through the playoffs? So this is the team that I feel the worst about putting on this list just because we haven't seen him do it before. This is all of the sample size of good Sam Darnold that we've got to this point. But, I don't know, man.

Like what else do you want them to do, basically, through five weeks? Like they've checked every single box that you can ask them to. The only thing we have against them is we just haven't seen them do it in the playoffs. And I mean, that's not their fault. Let me put it this way. I'm going to skew offense when I do this list. And this is not about where things sit right now necessarily. I think this is projecting forward a little bit.

Like, based on what I've seen so far, what do I expect the 2024 season to look like? How do I expect it to unfold for these teams? The Vikings right now have been below average on offense. If you look at the numbers, right? They're like 18th and DVOA, they're 21st and EPA per play. It's not the most important thing. But I do think that speaks to what sort of team we're talking about here. If things go very, very well for them offensively,

if we get the best version of Sam Darnold, you're still talking about an offense that's probably hovering around like the top 12 where your defense is going to do a lot of the heavy lifting the same way that it's done over the first six weeks of the season. That's harder to sustain overtime. It just is. It's harder to lean on your defense in that way for a long extended period. I put them immediately as the first team in the locked up,

locked in playoff teams category. I love watching them. They're dangerous. I think the arrow is pointed definitively up for them. I just feel like the long term prospects for them on offense with the volatility that comes with Arnold, it's just a smidge down from everybody else. Just a smidge.

I don't hate that. And like I said, I think I'm just going on what I've seen. And like, like I said, if you can win the game. The last thing we saw was that Darnold performance against the Jets, though, that doesn't give you, that doesn't make you worried at all when you consider what that offense looks like compared to the offenses you're putting in Tier 1.

I mean, yeah, we did get bad Sam Darnold. But, I mean, they forced the Jets into three interceptions. Like, they held the Jets to 17 points. But where are the Jets going to land on this list for you? They're not very high on mine. That's a different. conversation. If that's your clunker though, and we've seen them play so well against better, like that's, that's my thing is we're typically, we're late to join these parties because it's like,

well, they got to do it against a playoff team. They got to do it against the Super Bowl contender. We're five weeks, six weeks in and they've already done all that stuff. Like they've already proven that they belong with some of like literally multiple teams on my Super Bowl contenders list. They've beaten. So who am I to say? This is where we're differing here is that this is that this You're looking back at the first six weeks and I'm looking forward a little bit more. And I think that you can do it either way and I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just need to see it a little bit more on offense for them before I'm willing to bump them up there. We've just had so much more time with this version of these other teams on offense.

We know what the Lions are in year three with Ben Johnson and Jared golf. We know what the chiefs are. We know what the Ravens are with Lamar and year two with Monkin. We know what this Niners team is with Purdy. I just don't totally understand what the Vikings are yet offensively, even if they're doing so many of the right things. I like the Vikings. I've really enjoyed them this season.

I do think that they are very venomous and dangerous. I'm just not quite there. Yeah. That's it. Can beating, it's the perfect timing for this because they get to play another contender. Like can beating Detroit on Sunday, will that move the needle for you? Or is this really just about multiple months of results? It's about multiple months of results.

I don't want to be too reactionary with it. It's going to take just a little bit more time with the offense and me sitting with the offense before I'm willing to necessarily bump them up there. There's a chance by the time we get to Halloween if they have two really good performances. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm just not quite there yet. It's not an indictment of them. This says more about my cautious nature than it does about the Minnesota Vikings.

I mean, if we're being real, you will probably be vindicated because guess what? Winning the Super Bowl is really hard to do. Getting to the Super Bowl is really hard to do. but I just it's it's rare to see an upstart team, uh, just not only fly out of the gate, but again, do it so impressively. Like, you know, we'll talk about some teams on these lists who like, yeah, they've got a winning record, but who have they really played? You cannot say that about the Vikings at least.

And so that's why I give them a little more benefit of the doubt. I had Houston in my second tier. The offense has not impressed me. I think that Stroud is playing really, really good football. I just think that the. offense has been so uneven that it's hard for me to throw them in with those other teams. Obviously, the Chief's offense hasn't been fantastic, but they have Petrim Holmes, right? And they have Andy Reed.

We've seen what they can do when it gets the most important part of the calendar. So Houston was probably my second team in the Lockton playoff teams category, but I was not willing to bump them all the way up just based on what the offenses looked like down to down for really the majority of this season. I agree with that. Like I said, they haven't really looked that great. the standard that we had for them. I think with them, I just, I trust it to get sorted.

You know, Nico Collins will be back eventually. I mean, for a team that hasn't looked that great on offense, they had a guy who had 500 yards in five weeks. Like, that's crazy. Yeah, I mean, obviously they have the weapons. They have the quarterback. The offensive line has been worse than we expected. And I just feel like the plan on offense hasn't come together

in the way that I had hoped heading into year two. It's just been a little bit more uneven and a little bit less consistent. instant than I wanted it to be with this group. And that's why there's still a tiny gap for me between them and some of the other offenses we're talking about. Their defense has been phenomenal, though. That's one thing that's been notable here. And I think that's why I throw them in is because I just, I trust it to sort itself out. And again, this is the type of stuff I think about too.

Yeah, I mean, they're five and one, not even playing the most amazing football, but I would have to consider it a total meltdown if they don't win their division. So, I mean, you're talking about they're already going to have a home playoff game. They're going to have a chance to stack a lot of wins together. You just mentioned the defense, like that, that defense and that pass rush is, it's the type of thing that carries over the playoffs. So even if I haven't seen it through six weeks, I trust that we will see it. And that's why I put them on that list. I think among the teams in the locked in playoff teams category, they're probably the one that could be upgraded the quickest based on how the next month. month goes of all of these teams that are here, even more than Minnesota, and even more

than a couple other teams we're going to talk about because they've already shown it on defense and we know what the quarterback and the weapons are, but just not quite there yet. So we both have the Texans and the Vikings in the first two categories. Who are your other locked in playoff teams? Locked in playoff teams. I have the Buffalo Bills. Also have the Green Bay Packers. The Atlanta Falcons. Ooh. Okay.

And okay. And here's another, here's another spicy thing, which I don't know how I'm going to make the math work on this, but like I have the Buccaneers as well. Like I think both of these teams make the playoffs. Now you figure out how that's going to work with what's going on in the NFC North. I mean, it's not crazy to think we could only have one playoff team from the NFC East and only one playoff team from the NFC West. Like that's not crazy. So no, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think the Falcons. I mean, I think the Bucks are arguably the most underrated team in the league, like considering how they're talked about and what they've done. I'm a big, big fan. So yeah, I got both of those teams. I wanted to put the commanders on this list, but I'm just a little, I'm a little nervous that. Oh, you don't believe, huh? No, I do. I do believe, but it's just early in the season. You don't believe, you believe, but you're putting the bucks and the falcons ahead of them in this exercise. Yeah, absolutely. I think the bucks and the falcons are more well-rounded teams. Like, there's more things that I, like, that I feel like I can trust with the

Falcons and the bucks. I know how that, I know how insane that sounds. I just said I trust the Atlanta Falcons. I feel like the performance that Jane Daniels on offense had on Sunday. I'm in. I just, I'm in. I don't have to squintz anymore. I don't have to. You're not. You're not. You're not anymore i i put them in here with absolutely no reservations into this category i threw them in here the team that i put in i was a little more tepid and i thought it would be spicier and i'm surprised that you were so full-throated about it i have the bucks in mine let's go pretty good about putting them in there so here's the thing i i put atlanta in the deserving wild cards i felt like i had to choose between them and even though i do think that there are a lot of similarities and how i'm seeing both of them

think the offenses are playing well obviously really like the weapons feel like they're absolutely on the upswing on that side the defense is what concerns me it's a lot of similar arguments on each side for these teams i just feel a little bit better about what i've seen from the buck's offense so far i just think that baker's playing really well i love how they're deploying the weapons i like what the offensive line is done even with an injury at right tackle for a good majority of the season the running game is starting to show signs of life i just and again maybe it's like you said the box as constructed and what they've done over the last couple years, maybe that's what's causing me to give them the nod over Atlanta, who's just kind of arrived in this place.

But I'm having a hard time articulating why I think there's a gap between them, but I do feel one. And that's why I'm giving the bucks like a slight knot. I mean, there's more stuff I feel good about with the bucks. And look, I know every team in the league's dealing with injuries. Why would you say that? Because I would like to hear your argument for that, because it might help me. It's just, it feels more repeatable. to me. Like it and also we've, we've now seen them do it. We have, again, like the, the benefit of having seen it last year. And it was a worse version of the bucks last year. Right. Absolutely. It was. They could not run the ball. There was potential for disaster. And yet they still managed to

eke out more of these games than they did last year. And now I feel like they're better. They're more explosive. Baker Mayfield, just the stuff that Liam Cohen is doing to, to make him comfortable, the, the balance that they've shown throughout the season. And again, this, this goes back to just trusting things in the long haul. The Buccaneers defense hasn't even been that great. And that's what I was going to say is like, I know that everybody's dealing with injury, but you're talking about a Bucks team that basically just got Antoine Winfield back. Like they lost him in the season opener. That's a very good point. Uh, Colizja Cancy missed like everything up until now. Vita Vaila was out for a few weeks. So like some of the real heavy lifters on this defense haven't been there.

And you've still gotten really nice performances like Zion McCollum was a guy I was worried about before the season who's had a really nice start to the year. Tai Kee Smith was a demon in New Orleans the other day. Like he was everywhere. And so like you like you get a you get a gym and a third round pick like that. And now you're bringing the the stars and the moneymakers back to your defense. So I think that'll get even better. And so I just, I think they're, I think they're just a well-rounded team that can win games in a lot of different ways. And like last year we talked about them as like, oh, the bucks might be better than we think.

I just think they're legitimately good this year. And like definitely a step below the true contenders in my opinion. But like a team that I trust to have a winning record, get to double digit wins. That's just how I feel. I don't disagree with any of that. And I think that's actually a really good way to put it. I do feel better about the pieces that the Bucks have on defense, even if I think the last couple weeks have been troubling.

It hasn't been troubling. At least it locked out in the second half against the Saints. But it's the moments that they've had over the past two weeks against those NFC South teams. I've not felt good about that. But I still feel better about the pieces and the overall upside that they have on defense. So I think that's why I'm willing to do it. It's not an accident that these teams are nine and 10 in total team DOA right now. the bucks and the falcons are and they're neck and neck.

I mean, they're so, so close. I think the margins are very thin between them, but I'm still giving the bucks a slight knot. So the teams I have in this category, Vikings, Texans, you had both of them in the Super Bowl bus category. And then I had the Packers. I don't, not only that requires a lot of conversation. The Packers offense is really good.

The defense, I think, is fine enough. Like, there are no hesitation here with them. I have Washington, the bills, and the bucks. And so you did not have Washington, but you had the bucks and the Falcons. Correct. And I like now that I know that you're in on the commanders, I do feel guilty. But here's my thing.

And don't get me wrong. They played so well in Baltimore. Right. Like they, they answered the bell. They were fantastic. Jaden is he has. I don't think about this part of it. The ultimate betrayal.

I know. You're going to go against the LSU quarterback in this thing? I, I know. But here's, okay, here's the thing. You're going to take away all your purple and gold stuff. It's fine. Rip it out of your house. It's, it's got nothing to do with Jaden and everything to do with the other side of the

team, right? Yeah, the defense is really bad. It's really bad. It's really bad. It just is. And so, but you know what? Actually, okay, I think, I think I will change my mind live on the podcast. Well, here's the thing though, because I just, I just talked about with Houston, you're going to win the division.

win the division and that gives you a leg up in the Super Bowl conversation anyway, all the commanders have to do is be better than the cowboys and the and the Eagles. And they can say so that I mean, if we're just talking about getting to the playoffs, how could I not? So maybe I was maybe the category wrong here. And I was figuring out the titling for them. They were literally the team I had in mind when I was going to do locked in playoff teams. Like that was the team I was trying to place in a bucket. And so the fact that you've come full circle here. I like it. It feels good. I am the defense makes me so nervous, though. Like, because again, like with Tampa,

I can look at your defense and say like, all right, here's what you can do well. Here's, you know, paths to victory. Todd Bowles gives you a huge leg up in that conversation. The Falcons as well, like their defense isn't anything to get excited about, but like Rahim Morris is their coach. And they're like, you know, their secondary is having a very nice season. I saw yesterday, I think, like they're tied for the second fewest explosive pass plays in the NFL. So you got stuff you can hang your hat on defensively for both of those teams. I don't know what the commander's defense is hanging its hat on. Like the commanders just all sell it.

Great point. Like the commander's whole selling point is that they have the most efficient offense in the NFL, which is an incredible thing to say about a team with a rookie quarterback. But it does make me nervous to think. think about them being that efficient week after week after week for 12 more weeks. The Falcons have a bottom five in pressure rate while being top eight in blitz rate. It's hard to do. No, and I mean, that is a great point.

Like, sure, there's definitely, there's an element of fake it to you make it with that. We're going to take one more quick break and then we're going to get back to finish up these team tiers with David. All right, let's get to the deserving wildcard teams. I had Atlanta in mine, so I had them one level lower than you did. but so we already talked about the Falcons. How many other teams did you have here, period? This is a really icky category. Like, the word deserving really trips me up here.

Like, who looks deserving left on this list? Please, I want to, please interject and save me from having to name some of these teams. So don't think too hard about the word deserving. We needed to have some sort of qualifier around here because if you just picked wildcard teams, only so many teams can win the wild card so the math just doesn't work out. The way that I was thinking about this is teams that had sort of an inside track to the wild card, where if they were to get one of these playoff spots, we feel like that's within the range of outcomes.

They don't need three or four different things to happen for them to kind of sneak in the back door. That's how I was conceiving of the category. Okay. Well, all right. For starters, then if that's how we're classifying this, then I guess the team I feel best about is Phil, Philadelphia, just because of the talent, really. And like, you know, this is a bad week to be saying this. Like the vibes in Philly are so rough. Like I did not have them in here. That's, that's fine.

I'm literally just taking a bet on the talent. Like at the end of the day, most of the teams they play, they can roll the ball out there. I mean, that's what they did against Cleveland. Like, they're just throwing jump balls. Yeah, it was against Cleveland. And they barely won that. game but at the end like again if if all we're talking about is getting to like nine wins then i think the eagles can get there i'm purely banking on the talent because nothing else feels good but do we feel good about nine wins being enough to get you in the playoffs in the nfc we just we just talked about the falcons and the bucks and the fact that those teams might be playoff teams so we have seven playoff teams in an nfc right here teams that i think have a very decent

chance of winning at least 10 games in the NFC. Vikings, Falcons, Washington, Niners, Lions, bucks, Packers, Bears. That's eight. Okay. Yeah. It's rough, but I'm still, I'm comfortable, I'm comfortable banking on the amount of talent that Philadelphia has.

I mean, offensively, I'm cool saying that. Defensively, I am not. Sure. Totally. I, this is, this is a bet. on the receivers and Sequin and Jalen Hertz and the offensive line being better than most of the teams that they're going to play. I'm okay with it.

I would say the next team after that, probably your Chicago Bears, buddy. Ooh, okay. All right. I had them in here. Just, I mean, especially like the way Caleb's been playing since week three, if you give me that Caleb and this Bears defense, again. This is a team that can get you into that conversation. I pick them as my, you know, when we do our preseason playoff predictions, they were my seventh seed. I was not counting on the Vikings being what they are.

So that kind of changes the math a little bit, but I still think that's conceivable. After that, okay, it gets tough after that. Can I? all right here's here's the interesting thing here's the interesting thing the record and the math tells me that I should like back the Pittsburgh Steelers you know just because like they've already they've already gotten to forg wins it's a sound way of playing football

where like as long as you don't melt down you you're I mean it's the Mike Tomlin way that's what they freaking do they win nine or 10 games and they sneak into the back end of the the playoffs. So you got to have them on this list just because they wrote the book on it. Like they wrote the book on being a slightly above average wildcard team. So that's fine. And then if I betrayed my LSU roots by doubting Jaden, my neck like my spicy take is like I still, I still feel better about the Bengals than a lot of other teams we're going to talk about. You absolutely should. Why shouldn't the Bengals be in this category? If you look at the state of the

a FC wildcard race. Right now, as it currently stands, here are the three teams that are, I got, man, there's even more than three teams. Here are the teams that are currently ahead of the Bengals fighting for a wildcard spot in the AFC. The Miami Dolphins

are technically ahead of them because the dolphins are two and three, which is hilarious. Dolphins, Broncos, Colts, chargers. And most of those teams are one game ahead of the Bengals and the standings. I have no problem putting the Bengals on here. The Bengals are likely a top five offense. Their defense is putrid, but the teams that we're

going to talk about, you just talked about the Steelers, it's just the inverse. We have a lot of teams with decent defenses that are going to carry them here. And if we feel better about the consistency and reliability of offense and we know what the Bengals offense is, why wouldn't they be in this category? I put them in here with easily, like, just flew into this one. I'm furious with the Bengals. That's all. Like, I'm just, I'm so mad. Time out for you. That's why. We're just, we're here again. And like, look, I know the defense hasn't been good, but like this, this should at least be a three and three team, if not four and two. Like, how do you lose to the pats and how do you blow that Lamar Jackson fumble? I'm still mad about that.

I am still mad about what happened in overtime against Baltimore. They should be at least 500, if not above. And here we are again, trying to claw our way out. they looked not impressive against New York the other night. So like I'm just, I'm mad that we have to do this again and we sort of have to like squint to see the path to the playoffs when clearly like, when the offense is on, which it has been now for the majority of the last month, it shouldn't be this hard.

Even with a bad defense, it shouldn't be this hard. I totally agree with that. I'm not saying they're not frustrating. They're very frustrating. But I still think that if we're lumping teams together in this way, they deserve to be around the other teams that we're putting in this category.

Yeah. So I have no issue with that. So I had Atlanta, Cincinnati, Chicago. I also had Pittsburgh. They're four and two. We'll see what happens with Russell Wilson, who's now going to be their starting quarterback,

apparently. It just doesn't matter to me. I have no feelings about who the Pittsburgh Steelers choose to be their starting quarterback. I think Justin Fields is probably a more dynamic, exciting option. I think it doesn't matter. Like in the long run,

I'm just not sure it matters that much who they put into that spot. They're going to be the 22nd best offense in the league. Their defense is going to be good. They're going to win 10 games and they're going to lose in the first round of the playoffs. Let me ask you this. Are you as a Bears fan amused, triggered, interested at all by the Justin Fields' dialogue in Pittsburgh? Like I feel like a crazy person listening to the same conversation that happened in Chicago for three years. happening in Pittsburgh now. It's very interesting to me. David, I'm going to get personal for a second

here. I, there, you know, my life, there have been some times that weren't so great. There have been some times that I don't look back on fondly. And over the last like four or five years, I've just been so happy. You know, I have like a wonderful loving partner, stable, feel good about who I am. I don't really think about those times anymore. You know, it doesn't really, it's not at front of mind for me, because why fixate on the times that were darker. After what we've seen from the quarterback over the last three weeks, I'm never going to think about the last three, four, five, ten, twenty years again if this works out.

So no, I'm paying it no mind whatsoever. That's very, that's very mature of you and probably, probably the right call. So I have the Steelers in here. I had Cincinnati. Here are the two that I think are maybe a little bit controversial. And I don't really necessarily feel great about either of them. I have Seattle in here. They're three and three.

I like the quarterback. I think the offense is going to be good enough for them to be relevant in the NFC conversation, even if things are trending in the wrong direction. The performance they had on defense against the Niners with some of those pieces back, while not great, was still encouraging enough that I don't think they're going to be like a bottom five defense in the league the rest of the way. And if the offense can be like a top 12-ish unit and the defense can be passable, I at least think that they're going to be competitive in the broader NFC landscape. Here's the thing with Seattle.

And I love the landscape that we're in now. Like in 2024, everybody has access to the tape. And like all you got to do is log on to social media and you can see a dozen cutups from whatever team you want to watch. You can go pay $15 or whatever it is to go watch the tape yourself. if you're paying attention to the NFL closely, you know that Gino Smith is freaking awesome. Like he's playing so, such good football for the most part.

Last week was a down week for Gino. It was tough. It was tough as a Gino believer to see a performance like that in prime time with everybody watching. I was joking. I'll pick up a restaurant when you're like, oh man, guys, this restaurant is so good. You guys are going to love it.

It's fantastic. The chef is just doing such great things. And then you go and it's a little bit disappointing and you find yourself apologizing for it the entire time. That's how the Gino performance felt last week against the Niners for me. My analogy was a like a YouTube clip that's been just killing you all day and you show it to somebody and they just don't even crack a smile. It's my entire social media relationship with my wife, you mean?

Oh yeah, exactly. Just like, when's the funny part happened? No, no, this is great. Isn't this great? Yeah. So, all right, we know that Seattle and Gino in particular have been playing well for the majority of this season. But it just looks so hard, man.

Like it looks. I know. And he's like, the Seahawks are like the ball knowers team. Because if you turn it on, you're like, look at these throws. Look at this anticipation. Look at this play design. And at the end of the day, they still have an offensive line that struggles to assert itself. It makes life incredibly tough on Gino.

And I'm, and on top of that, the defense just, I know they've been banged up. They just, they don't look all the way ready to be what. Mike McDonald wants them to be. I just think it's going to be really hard to consistently achieve these results. I see the Seahawks as the type of team where they're eight and nine and you're just like, oh my God, like they had two of these games at the end and they just couldn't get it done. That's how I see the Seahawks. I don't disagree with any of that. And I think that the feeling of watching them right now and how difficult it all feels is a signal that we should be paying attention to. I am fully willing to admit this is me giving the benefit of doubt to the quarterback

and not being able to quit him. That's it. I'm willing to admit it. I don't even think it's right for me to put them in this category with the other teams that are here. I'm just choosing to believe. I love that because that's typically my relationship with Dak Prescott and it speaks to how bad the rest of the Cowboys have been that I can't even muster that up for Dak right now. The Seahawks offense has still been like a borderline top 12 team. Just think two weeks ago what they did against the lions on the road and how they moved the ball. Last week was frustrating at times, but they were still in that game because of some of the

plays that that offense was making against a very good Niners team. So I don't think this is like a lost cause. The Cowboys offense, which we will talk about in a minute, is objectively bad. No, they test any effect of measure. No, they're not the same. They're not the same. That is not the case with the current version of the Seahawks. offense. But here's here's the thing, Robert. Like, I loved, I felt like a crazy person. I went to bed on

that Monday night and I was like, am I a psychopath if I think Gino played like the better overall game given the circumstances, even though Jared Gough didn't throw an incompletion? And then I woke up Tuesday and people were having that dialogue. He was amazing. Guess what? They still lost by like 12 or 13 points. Like it, like I say, like they're going to have a chance in a lot of these games because. he's playing great. I just don't know that there's enough there to make me convince that it's going to be enough to stack nine, 10 wins. I believe they can be an above average

offense over the course of the season. And I do think that things can course correct a bit on defense. If they don't, with Mike McDonald being your head coach, then we're having an entirely different conversation. And by the end of the year, I'd be willing to have that conversation. Right now, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. The last team I had in my list here, and I don't know, we'll go through them again just to remind people before we move out in the next one.

I have the Chargers. Okay. My gut reaction. My, my gut reaction here is like, again, long time fan of the show. You're just, you're dying for a reason to believe in the L.A. Chargers. That is not even almost true.

I'm telling you, I, there, I have no warm feelings about this team. I don't. I do not. I've even soured on Justin Herbert compared to some of the other people in like the football internet sphere. I'm not one of those people that's like, I blindly believing in whatever this is. This is more about objectively

what some of the numbers are telling us right now about this team and the fact that they are currently three and two and if the playoffs started today would be a wildcard team. So the fact that they have a little bit of a head start here and they've looked like one of the best defenses in the league. They have feasted on bad teams. I am more than willing to admit that. But if this can be an objectively good defense,

if you have an offensive line, line that you feel good about over the course of the year. And among all of the teams that we're discussing here, Seattle, outside of maybe Cincinnati, and we talked about why they're in this spot. Seattle, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Justin Herbert is still the best quarterback among all of those teams. I think the formula they showed you last week where the defense is still going to give a lot of problems to whoever they're playing against, and you have a quarterback who can make six to eight high leverage throws when the game is on the line. That is enough of a formula for me to think that they can steal.

you a wild card spot in the AFC. I was just giving you shit. And they're not on my list. Mainly just like I feel like I need to see more. That's also fair. Every charger game was a very competitive game against the chiefs to be fair to them. And then like the other four games were against teams that I can't say I take super seriously.

You know, like the Panthers, the Raiders, they beat Denver. I mean, they did, you know, they controlled that game against Denver, which counts for something, but still not a win that's going to like register. I will say this for the Chargers. I didn't give enough credit to the fact that maybe their ceiling's not super high, but the floor is also just not going to be low. Like Jim Harbaugh is not going to let it be low. And it's like, it's just like slow and steady wins the race type of thing. Like, yeah, they're not going to do anything. That's kind of how I feel about it.

It's a, we're going to wake up at the end of the year. They're not going to impress anybody and they're going to be 10 and seven. Yeah. I kind of feel like we're on that path. To bring it, like to bring it back to the Bengals, the Bengals are going to do something amazing every week. Joe Burrow is going to have a 50 yard touchdown run. Jamar Chase is going to go nuclear. But they're also going to trip over themselves and shoot themselves in the foot like four, like they've already done three or four times.

The chargers just feel like, yeah, they're just going to plot along. and never do anything that shows up on red zone, but also just never make a fool out of themselves. And maybe, like, maybe that'll be good enough. It's so true. If you weren't actively seeking them out over the first five weeks of the season, it would have been possible to not note the Los Angeles Chargers existed.

Like, I couldn't, I couldn't like the biggest play that they've been a part of, unfortunately, is probably the Rishi Rice injury on the, on the interception. That J.K. Dobbins touchdown in week one. Maybe there were a couple of J.K. Dobbins moments,

people have been like, oh man, look at J.K. Dobbins. That's really all we've gotten. There has not been a single national mention of Alohi Gilman during this NFL season, zero. No. But hey, all you got to do, that's the beauty of the NFL. All you got to do is play the game in front of you. And what? I mean, let me, I'm pulling up the Chargers schedule now. Like, I mean, they do play. Obviously, they've got another game against the Chiefs and they do play Cincinnati and Baltimore. But like other than that, I don't see a ton on this schedule that should like scare me. So yeah, I buy your, maybe. I buy your logic completely, even though they didn't make my list.

Let's run these off real fast. My deserving or wild card inside track teams, Atlanta, Seattle, Cincinnati, Chicago, Pittsburgh Chargers. Who were yours? I had Philly, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati. Oh, and that's it. Yeah. All right. So let's get to this next one here.

clinging to their playoff dreams let's talk about philly philly is the first team that i had i the vibes are sour the defense is actively bad if the defense was like an average unit and we were just looking at the offense and saying oh man they're they're so talented they'll figure it out i think that is maybe something i would feel a little bit better about yeah i just i just don't believe in the defense i don't believe in the talent that they have on defense i don't believe in what the defense has looked like they've gotten run over when they've played decent offenses outside of week one when they played against jordan love on an ice rink and Brazil. So I've just not a believer. The vibes and the defense, even if we believe in the talent

on offense, there's still one step down from some of those other teams that we talked about. I don't see the Eagles as a Super Bowl contender anymore, which I did at the start of the year because I just willfully ignored all of the bad vibes over the summer. But even still, I already said this, but maybe I'm clinging to my beliefs about the bad vibes from the summer. I'm willing to admit that. No, but you're justified in clinging to them. The head coach was just chirping at his own fans. He, like, he had to get on Zoom and apologize for losing the plot at the end of a win the other day.

So I don't think you're, like, I think you're totally justified in doubting the vibes. I just think at the end of the day, there aren't that many teams that can stop that offensive line from running the ball with Selewan Barkley, while also stopping Devante Smith and AJ Brown from winning favorable matchups. How my lot is banged up. They've had injuries on the interior times this year. I don't know, man. I just, I,

they need to show me something different for me to start getting back on board. That's what I'll say. At the end of the day, they're three and two without having had AJ for the majority of that and they also didn't have Smith. And I mean, it still counts, but like what a giveaway.

of all giveaways to lose that Falcons game the way that they did. So I, I, the vibes concern me, but I just, I don't think it's as bad as it's looked. Um, certain, like I said, I don't see them as like a true contender anymore, but I still, I'm, I'm taking that roster, particularly on offense in the majority of the games that they'll play. We'll get to the rest of the clinging to playoff team, playoff dreams teams in a second. Some breaking news. Amari Cooper headed to the Buffalo bills in a trade that involves the headline here involves a 2025 third round pick. Anybody who watched that Texans game, and I know the offense was marginally better against the Jets last night, but anybody who watched that Texans game could not come away from that

game and not think this team needs one guy who could separate one guy. And now they have that. So him being able to slot in at one of those outside receiver spots and us getting way less Matt Collins in our life. And this being an Amari Cooper at the Z, Keon Coleman at the axe, Khalil Shakir in the slot when they're an 11 personnel sort of situation for the bills, I feel very good about that.

This team desperately needed this sort of player in the overall formula for what their offense is supposed to be. I adore teams that are willing to clock their problems and fix them expeditiously. Because we went into the season. in thinking, yeah, Josh is just going to have to make it work with all of these lesser options, and he's probably a good enough quarterback to do it. And they're four and two.

And it certainly hasn't always been pretty, but like they've had some legitimately nice moments. And a lot of teams would just buckle down on that and say, like, yeah, this is what it looks like, what are we supposed to do? Or they would wait until they were below 500 or at 500 and desperately, needing a spark to do this, I really appreciate that Brandon Bean is evaluating it fairly. And even though, you know, the early going of the season has largely been positive, he's like, no, we're not doing this. We're going to get a difference maker, a separator, a guy who's going to make life a little bit easier on Josh. I think that's, it's commendable because I think a lot of

teams are a lot more stubborn than that. I'm fine with it. A third is a lot to give up for a 12-game rental. He's going to be a free agent after the season. He's 30 years old. But this is possible because of what the Browns did with his salary. He's making $1.2 million. And the reason the bills weren't in on the Devante Adams thing, I assumed, is because the Raiders weren't willing to eat the money. They needed somebody to do them a favor or they needed a scenario like this because they have next to no cap space and very little financial flexibility to find some. So I think this makes sense on a lot of different levels, even if it is a little bit pricey, what they have with their quarterback and what the current state of the AFC looks like.

I really don't have much of a problem with this. They also have an extra two because of the digs trade. I think, I mean, third round picks are not nothing, but I don't, I don't even really think it's that pricey. Again, when you're talking about a team with a top three quarterback, the AFC looks very watered down. Like, you know, there's nobody in,

I mean, well, maybe the Ravens after what happened to him a couple weeks ago. But like, there's no reason the bills should feel. like they can't go for it this year. And I think a third round pick is, is well worth it to try to elevate the ceiling of this team when you have time, Josh Allen. Let's think about the exercise we just did. The teams that we put above them in the Super Bowl bus category were the Ravens and the Chiefs, totally understandable. In the next category down, the only other AFC team that's in there is the Texans. They lost a very close game to the Texans last week, needing this exact type of player in order to avoid that outcome on offense.

So I feel fine with it. It's a decent amount to give up, but understand your window, understand where you're at compared to the teams that you're playing against. I have no issue. Like I wish teams did this a little bit more often. Absolutely. Strike while the iron's hot. Let's get back to the clinging to playoff dreams teams. I had the Eagles in mine.

How many teams did you have overall on this? So I had six. Two of those are teams that you mentioned. I had the chargers on mine as well as the Seahawks. Okay. So the four that I, the four new ones that I had on this list, the New Orleans Saints, the Denver Broncos, the Dallas Cowboys, and the New York Jets who I, I can't quit. And I would have put him here before they traded for Devante Adams.

But I feel even better about him now, now knowing that he's there. We mentioned this when talked about the Bengals. I think the state of the like third tier of teams in the AFC fighting for a wild card justifies putting the jets in here. So I also had the jets in here. I also had the Saints in here. I also had the Broncos in here. You didn't have the Colts, huh?

Colts are one step down for you. I wrote that. So I write the power rankings for Fox. If you're mad about them, you know, direct all your, direct all your complaints to management. I don't think there is a team that. I know less about than the Indianapolis Colts. Who are the Colts? Their starting quarterback has only played half the season.

You know, I mean, you know, Joe Flacco is going to give you a chance, I guess, but like that's not what we're trying to evaluate. The goal is not for Joe Flacco to start your entire season. The defense looks absolutely atrocious more often than not when they're not playing the Will Levis Titans. What else am I missing? Oh, and then the crazy part of all is they've won three games, and a couple of those wins are against solid teams.

So I don't know what to do. Like, are they good? Are they bad? I don't know how to evaluate them. And until I have more information, I don't see a reason why I should believe. Here, I'm going to tell you right now the reason that I put them in here. I was going back last night, and I was watching Josh Downs and A.D.

Mitchell for reasons that aren't important. They're related to fantasy football. And I was like, man, this team has really good players on offense. Josh Downs is a real player. Adi Mitchell is consistently getting separation. And I do think that over the course of the season, we will hear from him. We know what Alec Pierce has done in some of those splash play moments. I believe in the talent.

You throw in the offensive line and what that group consistently looks like. The quarterback is obviously the biggest enigma maybe in the NFL right now and what the offense looks like when he comes back. So I completely understand there's tons of uncertainty surrounding this team. I think you put that beautifully. I am choosing to believe in the offensive talent and the offensive infrastructure, putting them in this discussion over the course of the year, even if I am actively disgusted by the defense and I have no idea what their starting quarterback is. I mean, beauty's in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

I mean, look, they did, we saw them do this last year. You know, they got within a first down of making the playoffs last season. season. But I think the Texans are a much better team. That's the tricky part with the Colts is I don't think winning the division is in play this year. If I'm wrong about that, then I'll apologize for it later. But so I don't disagree with that. But let's again revisit the state of the AFC and the fact that they're three and three right now. And the only team they'd have to edge out for a wild card spot is the Chargers. It's I don't know. What are the, what are the Colts? What are you hanging your hat on? you're the Colts. Like for instance, and the play caller on offense. That's it. I don't feel good about that. That's not that's why they're not in the wild card section. Like for like for instance, you can look at this and say like, okay, you know, it might not always be pretty, but the Steelers defense is going to keep them in a lot of these games. The Bears defense is going to do this. They're going to do the charger. We'll even talk about worst teams. You're looking at Seattle and you're saying,

Gino's going to give them a chance in the vast majority of the games that they play. Denver, who we can talk about in a minute, like their defense. Like I just, so basically, you're, you're just, you're, you're buying potential, which is, I feel like what we've been saying about the Colts for forever at this point. I am to a degree. Like, I don't think they're a good team, but I am buying the talent on offense being able to lift them over these third tier teams in the AFC if things break right. And that's why they're clinging.

They're not in a stable place. They are clinging. And again, based on what they're, trouting out offensively and the talent of those players, I'm willing to say that they are, they belong in this category, that they are one of the clinging teams. I did, I'll say, like, I'm not even, I'm not even arguing against that. I'm going to, I'm going to go with my thesis statement again. There is not a team in the NFL that I know less about than the Indianapolis Colts. Like, I just don't know who they are. So you're choosing to believe. And I guess I'm just going to put

them over to the side until somebody shows me something. I also have the Saints in mind. I don't think we have to really talk about that. They're like the definition of this team, a definition of a team. They are the, they are the ideal team to put in this category. They're clinging to their playoff dreams because of math and because of some of the flashes they've shown on offense. That's really all we got.

I feel bad for the Saints, though. And we like, we don't have to talk a lot about it. But I feel bad because they looked legit like not, not like a Super Bowl, not saying Super Bowl, but like they looked, they looked like a true wild card playoff contender. and then they let two games they shouldn't have slip away. And then the whole freaking team got hurt. Like, I saw Nick Underhill, who does a great job down in New Orleans,

like he posted their week one lineup and had like red Xs through nine of the 11 starters. And I mean, it's just a shitty break for what had been a pretty fun team. So yes, they're clinging to their playoff dreams. It's not all their fault. So I feel a little bad for him. I think that's right.

I'm worried that it feels like the defense is disintegrating. I mean, what they looked like in that game against the box. I mean, that performance is troubling to me. And I think that injuries play a huge role in that, and injuries play a big role in what their offense looks like. But those injuries are real. And so I feel like they're heading very much in the wrong direction. You'd probably make an argument that they belong in the category above this.

But I just feel like the way that the arrow is pointed, I feel better putting them here. So I also had the Broncos. Defense is good. They've won three games. I still feel like they're probably in the mix, even if I don't feel great about the offense's ability to turn things around. I think part of the reason I'm putting them here and not in the category below this is that

you have a rookie quarterback, so you could feasibly be in a spot where you're going to be marginally better on offense by the end of the year than you are now, and your defense has been very good over the course of the season. But this is more about where they sit in the standings compared to the rest of the AFC. So I had the Saints, the Broncos, the Colts, the Eagles, and the Jets. Yeah, well, I had the Eagles as a as a as a as a as a tear up and yeah, the Chargers and Seahawks down. But yeah, I think I think for the most part these lists look pretty similar.

Next one here we're calling the outside looking in teams that probably are not going to make the playoffs and probably are not going to pick in the top five. So they're kind of in this other weird bucket. Who did you have here? Let's just list them off. Well, Colts are here for me. So we covered them. I got the LA Rams, the Arizona Cardinals, the New York Giants. and the Miami Dolphins.

I had the exact same four. I obviously had the Colts one up. And the other team that I put in here, and this may be controversial, is I had the Dallas Cowboys in this group. Fair, fair. I mean, based on what we've seen, I don't think you're wrong.

And I guess that goes back to what I said about not being able to quit Dak Prescott. I do, I trust, I trust that there's enough talent there and DAC is a good enough quarterback to keep them relevant but man it's how do you argue with what we've seen in the three losses

and even even the three wins do not look good as the season goes along people are going to be surprised by this I think and they're like how can you put them in there they have three wins what do the Cowboys do well quite literally right now nothing they are 25th and offensive DVOA

and 27th on defense in defensive DVA. The teams that they are clustered around now, if you look at the numbers and just try to pay attention to the eye test and what they feel like when you're watching them, they are just behind the Cardinals and the Giants and just team DVOA, period. That feels right. That feels like the sort of team this is.

They barely snuck by the Steelers two weeks ago, a team that's about to change out their starting quarterback. They are not a good team. I mean, right now, you are in a spot as the Dallas Cowboys where your owner is going on the radio and threatening to replace the people interviewing him because he doesn't like the line of questioning. Things are really bad.

I don't think you can watch what they looked like against the Lions and what they looked like against the last real, truly good team they played in the Ravens and say, this team even deserves to be in the conversation to steal a wild card in the NFC. I don't think they're there, and I think that things are trending in the wrong direction for them to get there.

Shout out to Sean, RJ and Bobby down in Dallas for a very memorable radio interview on Tuesday morning. I really, I don't have a good argument against you. I guess if I'm a delusional cowboy fan that's clinging to some sort of hope, I do think, I mean, you still have Dak Prescott and CD Lamb. And this is about sound crazy, but they looked pretty mid last year and went into their by and came out of it and played like a much more. cohesive offense. So not that you can magically fix a list of problems in one week off,

but I do think there's room for improvement. The problem is, for me, problem is last year you had a pretty solid offensive line. And this year, it's becoming more and more apparent that that's not the case. I mean, the Cowboys don't want to say that they bench Tyler Geithen, but Tyler Geithen was fully available last week and did not wind up playing against the lions. I don't know what else you call that. So now you got Tyler Smith playing out of position at left tackle. I mean, he's a phenomenal player. He can do it. But now your interiors weekend, you've got a less experienced guard playing next to Cooper Beebe. Zach Martin, all of Dallas is

depressed right now because Zach Martin arguably had, not arguably, had the worst game of his professional career. I really hope that he's just dealing with injuries and that this is. But even if he is just dealing with injuries. He is in his mid-30s at this point. And he's dealing with a bad back. I mean, there's a chance that this just keeps going through the entire season. And Tyrant Steele isn't playing well at right tackle. No, Taryn Ciel is not literally, literally no one. I mean, Tyler Smith at left guard, I feel good about. But right now, but right now he's not even playing there. As somebody who like grew up as a football watcher watching Tyron Smith and Zach Martin at their peak. It was a depressing 24 hours watching Zach against the Lions followed by Tyrant Smith against

the Buffalo Bills on Monday night. It was rough. So, I mean, there's that. The Dallas defensive line is atrocious. We don't need to go into how bad they are against the run. So yeah, I, again, the reason why I can cling to some hope is Parsons will be back, DeMarcus Lawrence will be back, DeRon Bland sounds like he's close to being back. That's the best argument for me is that they've You're not. You're not. You're not. It doesn't do a lot to change for me, though, because even when those guys were healthy,

I was saying the offense concerns me way more than the defense. Because again, similar to Gino Smith, everything looks hard as hell for the cowboys. Like nobody's ever open. They can't run the ball. Dax got to play. Dak has to play perfect for the Cowboys to have a chance. And he's not perfect. And honestly, even as highly as I think of him, he hasn't been.

up to the level that I expect from him in most of their games. I mean, he was incredible at the end of the Steeler game, and that was after playing one of his most careless games in recent memory. So to answer your question, Brandon Aubrey, that's what the Cowboys do well right now, which is, which is bad when your kicker's the best thing about your team. The other ones, I don't think we have spent a lot of time on.

The Giants aren't a laughing stock. I'm actually interested in their defense. I'm excited to talk about their defense a little bit later this week. So it's nice to see them actually playing real football against real teams. Cardinals, I think we probably got a little ahead of ourselves and some of the preseason excitement about what they could look like. Their defense is still an absolute train wreck. And the Rams and Dolphins just seasons from hell.

You get decimated by injury. You go into a hole. Even if the Rams can get some of their guys back, even if Tua comes back for the dolphins, it's still probably a little bit too little too late. I mean, they're likely going to end up with like between seven and nine wins, each of them and just be on the outside looking into the playoffs. When I was thinking about this category specifically,

those are probably the two teams that I had to. Let's get to the end of this. I don't know how much time we need to spend on these. We're calling these the mock draft enthusiasts. The teams in the last category here. I think we probably had the same teams, right? Titans, Jags, Raiders, Patriots, Panthers, Browns. That's it.

The easiest one. Is there anything to really say here? The Titans defense has been better than I think people have recognized so far. That's like the nicest thing I have to say about any of these teams. The Titans defense, if you take out, touchdowns that the offense and special teams have given up. Like they haven't even allowed 100 points on defense this year. Like it's,

I'm not saying they're this elite unit, but like they have a defense of a, of a better team. So it's a shame. You know, I said it, I said it before the season. Like,

I appreciate that they're doing everything if they can to find out if Will Levis is the guy. It kind of feels like we're getting our answer. Um, I know it's been a bit on your show forever to hate on the Jags, but like just what a it hasn't been though it's been a bit on our show to be frustrated by the jags because we want the jags to be better and that's that's changed that's what i mean i'm so i'm sick i'm sick of the jags because i i thought they had playoff potential this year i picked them to make

the playoffs i still think trevor lawrence is a good quarterback i don't you know it's like we were talking about with gino like you know recommending a restaurant like i just i know he's a better player than what the results show, but I don't have much of a leg to stand on. So I'm very mad at the Jags. Yeah, that's about it. Yeah, I think the Raiders are trending to be one of the worst teams in the league, especially on offense.

They're going to be in contention to get the number one pick. Like I thought they probably would be. Not that I thought they would be, but based on the range of outcomes for the offense, I was not going to be surprised if they were going to be in this conversation by the end of the year. And I think that we're there. Patriots, very excited to watch Drake May, the rest of the way out.

I think this is going to be an objectively bad team for the rest of the season. I will say that at least the pets will be a team that I want to check in on now. Absolutely. I'm excited to watch them. Yeah. Yeah. I cannot really say that about the rest of these teams. The Patriots among all seven of these teams, all six of these teams are the team that I am going to be the most excited to turn on every single Sunday.

I'm going to with gusto through the Patriots into the multi-view in a way I'm going to do with none of the, the rest of these two. I might have to I might have to just catch the highlights on Sunday though like 6 a.m. wake up time for jags, Pat's. I don't know, man. I might have to just rewatch that one later. All right. We are going to skip all knower this week just because we had the Mari Cooper news. we went a little bit long on this. But this was the point of this show. The point of this show is to dig into these rankings. And I'm very glad that we got the chance to do it. Before we get out of here, why don't you tell the people where they can read, listen, check out the stuff that you're doing right now. If you enjoyed this, you can find me on the NFL and Fox podcast three times a week.

I mean, we're shoulder deep in this thing at this point. We're every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Thursday, recapping every Sunday slate, plenty of amazing guests. We talk to Greg Olson and Peter Schrager every week about all the action in the NFL. It's a ton of fun. If you enjoyed this, I think you would enjoy that. Check us out, please. NFL on Fox podcast wherever you get your podcast you can find us awesome really appreciate it buddy really good to chat with you really appreciate all of you guys listening i was going to say we'll be back

next week doing the show i will not be back next week doing this show i've got a medical thing to take care of it could really only schedule in the middle of the week i'm fine everything is fine just threw a wrench into the schedule so mike sando and derrick will be here holding down this spot next week so please check in with them and check that out for now That is all we've got. Appreciate it guys listening. We'll be back on Friday.