The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Hall of Very Good, Class of 2026

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

We're firmly in the Remember Some Guys period of the NFL calendar, and what better way to do so than with the Hall of Very Good? You kinda-sorta know a Hall of Very Good player when you see one, but we followed two loose rules when putting this episode together. First, if a player ever advanced to the semifinalist stage in Hall of Fame voting, he was too good to be in the Hall of Very Good. Second, he had to immediately conjure memories of legitimate peaks. Check both those boxes, and you're a Hall of Very Good candidate. So who made the 2026 class? Allow Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman to walk you down memory lane on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.0:00 Welcome to the show6:29 Ryan Kerrigan11:39 Tamba Hali16:02 Matt Forte19:19 Warrick Dunn24:43 Thomas Davis29:38 Michael Bennett35:16 Stephen Davis40:28 Mike Iupati43:27 Snacks Harrison48:03 D'Brickashaw Ferguson51:12 Sean Lee57:35 Jordy Nelson1:03:07 Reggie Nelson1:04:49 Rapid fire additionsHost: Robert MaysCo-Hosts: Derrik Klassen and Dave HelmanExecutive Producer: Michael BellerSenior Producer: Katy DuffySocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dave on Bluesky: @davehelman.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @RobertMaysFollow Dave on X: @DaveHelman_Theme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. We didn't do this for like three years, and I really do regret it because it is one of my favorite shows that we do over the course of the summer, and it was very good to get back to it. It is the Hall of Very Good on the Athletic Football Show.

We've done this three times over the lifespan of the show, but we have not done it since 2023. With Derek and Dave, we're doing four shows a week during the summer. It's the perfect time to bring back the Hall of Very Good. We get into the rules a little bit in the intro, So on a very simple level, this is a way to celebrate players who are never going to be real candidates for the Hall of Fame. And really, the only hard and fast rule is if you have been a finalist or semi-finalist for the Hall of Fame, you are not eligible for the Hall of Very Good. Other than that, it's just guys you liked watching, guys that you enjoyed, guys that made a handful of Pro Bowls and maybe it would get lost to history if we weren't doing stuff like this.

let's make sure to breathe life back into the very enjoyable careers of players like that. So that's what we did today. And then we got a dozen guys that are like full-fledged members of this class, which some real good pulse here, some ones from Derek specifically that I was kind of jealous of. And then, you know, Dave just really digging back into the late 90s, early 2000s archives here in a way that I very much appreciated. Really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you guys will as well.

Let's induct some guys into the Hall very good right now. One of my favorite things we get to do on this show. Sometimes we do it in snippets. Sometimes we do it for an entire show, an entire episode like we're doing today. We are remembering some guys today on the athletic football show. We've done this in the past. This is our fourth one, Beller, since 2021.

Two-year hiatus for a few different reasons. We were doing fewer shows in the summer last year, over the last two years. No reason to get into that. But this is the year we decided. that we're bringing back the Hall of Very Good. You guys, neither of you, has gotten a chance to do this yet. So this is the first time for both of you to remember some guys in full force. Dave, how you feel?

And this feels very much right up your alley. All the best conversations are just your buddy saying the name of a football player, and then you say, hell of a player. The cure to the male loneliness, but I'm a guy stand by this. Hell of a football player. And so to do it for a whole podcast episode, absolutely. I'm also amped for this. I was actually just talking with Beller before the show.

Like when I joined in 2024, my first day was August 1st. So it's too late in the off season to really do a show like this. And so to be able to do it now on, you know, we're recording June 22nd, perfect time to do a show like this. There are no hard and fast rules for who is eligible and who is not for the Hall of Very Good. This is a very vibes-based exercise. The only thing that I feel like we actually laid down when it came to the rules before we started is that you cannot be a Hall of Fame finalist

or you cannot have been a Hall of Fame finalist at any point since your career ended. And I think that extends to semi-finalists. We said semi, yeah. Because there were a few guys who are candidates to be in the Hall of Fame right now who might not ever get in, who I would love to mention.

But the very fact that you've been part of that process and you've gone through the voting and waited, I think that means you're too good for a conversation like this. Like if you're agonizing over whether or not you'll get in, I still think that's like a step beyond what we're talking about. I agree. If you've reached that point when it comes to the reconsideration of your career, I think you're probably too good for this. I kind of had like a rule of thumb.

If you've been to more than, let's say, three pro bowls, you're probably too good for me in an exercise like this. And then like the Hall of Fame, my cutoff is you have to have been retired for at least five years. And so my, there's one guy I actually have that he retired. tired at the end of the 2020 season. That was his last season. So we're now five full-off seasons removed from that. So similar to the actual Hall of Fame, there is a waiting period that you have to go through

before you can just get thrown in here. Like Deshawn Jackson is going to be a great entry into this conversation at some point. You can't just Sean Jackson right now. So, and I, it's funny because when we've done this in the past, I felt like Bellaright kind of trended toward really nostalgic picks because we had never done it before. So it was a chance to go back into your childhood.

and guys that you remember from 10, 15 years ago. This time I felt like I started with guys that were a little bit more recent. Guys I actually covered and now are just eligible. So you can take this in a bunch of different directions and that's why it's fun. That's pretty much the point. I've got, I have one guy who is just now even eligible for this. But I did, I wound up skewing a little bit more nostalgic, A, because it's fun to revisit like heroes from your first time.

That's the only way you can do it. Well, also, like, we went back and looked. We didn't want there to be. overlap from previous shows and y'all are so good at your jobs you took out a lot of the best names possible from this era yeah y'all are great so i i felt like i had to dig a little deeper i can't wait for derrick to go be like man do you remember watching a j green when you were like an elementary school i'm i'm really excited listen somebody that's just completely inappropriate when it comes to the timeline a majority of my picks are like retired like 2019 because i'm i'm not that

old. I'm not going to say somebody when I was like 11 years old. I wasn't seriously watching football when I was 11. Four. How many did you guys pick? Oh, dude. I have like 10, but I'm not planning getting to all of them. So I have four. How many do you have, Derek? I have like six that I'm seriously ready to talk about and then a number of like in case there was

overlap type of guys. But according to Beller, we have none. That's great. All right. So I think we'll probably get through at least a dozen here. Dave, I'm going to let you kick this off. I'm very curious like where your list started. And so I want you to be the first one to start to get out of going here. Who is your first candidate for the 2026 class of the Hall very good on the athletic football show? I think this is a great place to start because he's just now eligible for these sorts of conversations.

He, I believe, retired. Yeah, his last NFL season was in 2021 perennially underrated. He's not, he doesn't have a statistical case to really factor into the Hall of Fame. He just doesn't have the postseason awards. That would be Ryan Kerrigan. Really good one. Oh, loves Ryan Kerrigan. It's a really good one.

You could go about Brian Rakpo is also a player that like you could throw out for something like this. The fact that there were two of them playing the same position on the same team is great. Derek Morgan with Brian Arachpo. We could do like six degrees of separation for a whole very good players at certain positions. I'm happy you mentioned Iraq Po. And I mean, Kerrigan was just a phenomenal player. Four-time Pro Bowl. He was never all pro, not even second team.

at any point in his career, 95 and a half sacks, which is a really impressive number. I mean, that's like bordering on too good for this exercise, 95 and a half sacks. Right up against the line. Where, not to put you on the spot, where would you think that would rank? All time? All time. Because I agree with you. I saw 95 and a half and I was like, man, that's really good.

Like, is he too good for this conversation? Somewhere in the top 30? It's 78th. Really? Yeah. Man, a lot of guys. We're getting more than 100 sacks than a lot of. I thought we're getting crowded at the like after you know the amount of guys we've had that 78th at 95 sacks

they're way more 100 sack guys than I thought they were I thought it would be a hell of a lot better than it is and this is this is pro football reference by the way so like these are these are guys they've gone back and assigned sacks to with their research and stuff like that so that's what pro football reference ranks him at 95 and a half sacks it's really really good it's not quite as like rare air as I thought it would be when when I started this exercise. I just think about it on a practical level. That's nine sacks per season for 10 years. It's an incredible career. The other thing I love about Ryan Kerrigan is he was the, you could argue he was the most consistently good thing about the end of the Daniel Snyder era of Washington.

Like Kirk was there. You get one like supernova season of Robert Griffin III. You had some other guy like London Fletcher had a really nice resurgence in Washington. Jonathan Allen was there and Brian O'Rockpo, but like consistently across, you know, he got there in 2011 and was in Washington until 2020 across almost a decade. He was like the only consistent thing going,

particularly on the defensive side of the ball, where just every year you knew he was going to be a pain in the ass, even if nothing else in Washington was going the right way. I agree with everything you said. I just looked up something, though, that is just emotionally devastating. this is absolutely our first entrant into the Hall of Very Good That's younger than me Oh wow okay

Not a fan of that whatsoever Ryan Carrigan August 16th 1988 so he's like a full year younger than me That's devastating He's only a few months older than me Yeah that does I don't like that But I did love watching him play and I got to watch him a lot Covering the Cowboys too twice a year

Just a phenomenal player a high motor player. I was thinking about it rewatching him and just looking back through his resume and I was like, this feels like the best case scenario for like a high motor, high effort, not like a twitchy, freaky,

von Miller sort of athlete, like his career, in my opinion. I love that you said that. He's like what I wanted George Harlaftus to be coming out of college. And like Carlis has kind of gotten close to that, but Kerrigan really is like the pinnacle of what that's supposed to be.

It's funny that he's didn't, quite get to 100 sacks because I remember after like his eighth season or whatever, I was like Ryan Kerrigan is going to be the quietest 100 sack player in NFL history. If you're the 16th overall pick in the draft, this is like, we should celebrate careers like this more where you were the 16th overall pick. You went to four Pro Bowls. You had 95 sacks. You were a good player for 10 years in the NFL. And this is the other part. And this again is not explicitly in the rules, but I think that all the players we're going to talk about here fit the billing. and it's often one of the first places my mind goes

when it comes to the Hall of very good, are you beloved among the fans of the, among the fan base of the team that you played for? Like, if you went to a Washington fan, you were just like Ryan Kerrigan, they'd be like, f*** yeah. Like, that, to me,

feels like a reaction that is necessary, especially if you spend the vast majority of your career with one team. And I think it matters too. Again, the end of the Daniel Snyder era in Washington was awful. And so, like, to have him showing up year in, year out, yeah, absolutely.

And for the record, I should have said this at the top. So 78th unofficially because PFR charts all of that shit. The official record, he's still 53. So he's outside the top 50 in career sacks. Very, very good. But when you combine that with no all pros and anything of that nature, I just, yeah, like, I can't imagine him getting to the Hall of Fame, but an incredibly good player. Perfect choice.

It's exactly the type of the guy that we're looking for here. Derek, who's your first one? Your first nomination for the 2020. 26 haul very good is who. So because of the amount of pro bowls, I'm almost worried he's too good, but this player will not sniff the Hall of Fame because of career sack number. But this is another one where it's like he played for this team. His entire career was part of like an incredible duo the same way that Ryan Kerrigan was,

Tomah Lee for the Kansas City Chiefs was a dog. That guy was so, so good. Because you had Justin Houston, right, who was this like incredibly explosive, could bend, like had incredible technique. And Tom Bahal Lee looked at the other tackle and said, I'm going to kill you and push you right into the quarterback. He was just, I loved watching him play. They were like the perfect duo. He never made first team all pro, but he did make second team a couple of times.

Never actually got to 100 career sacks. I think he was at 89 and a half, if I remember correctly. And the cool thing about this to me, what you just said, Robert, of like if you go to a Kansas City fan and they ask if you just say Tomah Ali, he played his entire career there. He played 12 NFL seasons. Every single one was in Kansas City. And like, that's another thing I think we should celebrate more. Like there's nothing, there's obviously nothing wrong with guys jumping teams and like going to get other contracts or maybe the team doesn't want you, whatever.

I think it's really cool when a guy can play longer than a decade on one team and kind of go off on his own terms. That's just incredibly cool. We probably don't talk about that's a name that doesn't come up enough. This year would have been really appropriate for like slightly undersized past rushers that were just pure asses. kickers like that's because some of all he was what like six two and change right he was he was he was thick but he was short shoulder side yes he was like a short like sawed off like thick guy and his name should probably come up more in drafts like this where there were 10 of those guys and we were trying to find the right comps for them and it was melvin ingram every single time

yeah we could have moved out this is like tomahaw lee is like the super melvin ingroom basically i also have i have such a soft spot for pre mahomes chiefs because that was a a very consistently successful franchise, at least like in the 2000s, you know? And I know y'all did Priest Homes on a previous show. Like, I mean, Brian Waters was also. Brian Waters. I will say some of the names we threw out on earlier shows as I've recalibrated the formula are probably too good.

I mean, you can make an argument that like Brian Waters is probably too good. You know, looking back through the list, I saw a few names where I was like, this guy's far too good. I mean, he's one of my favorite players ever. I think Cam Chancellor is too good for a list like this. No, absolutely not. You don't think so? Absolutely not.

No, that's bullshit. No, there are some guys where, yes, too good. Cam Chancellor, absolutely not. Camp Chancellor is the perfect choice. Maybe that's for something like this. That just speaks to how much I love Cam Chancellor. Cam Chancellor, to me, because almost all of my, like, my, like, guiding light was like, I know this player was incredible, but he just won't sniff the Hall of Fame.

Like, I don't, Cam probably will not be a Hall of Famer. But, like, when I think of Cam Chancellor, I'm like, that dude was amazing. You're not wrong, but I'm not willing to let go of the possibility that Cam could the Hall of Fame because I'd vote for him. He's been out of the league since 2017, and I'm looking at the finalist ballots now. He has, he's never been a finalist or even like a semi-finalist. And so I feel okay about that. In my heart is Cam Chancellor or Hall of Famer?

100%. But for the purposes of this exercise, I think that he is fair game. Reluctantly, fine. One of the names we threw out, like, on one of the early shows that now I'm like absolutely not. It's like, Anquon Bolden is more of a canton court candidate than he is a whole very good candidate. Well, he was a finalist this year. There was some, I look back at that, I listened back to those episodes and you guys did like go back and forth and have a, is he too good?

Is he not too good? Yeah. But we're using this remembering some guy space to relitigate previous remembering some guy's spaces. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. Listen, you workshop the concept over time. You refine it. I mean, this is, we're all just trying to get better every single day.

That's all that matters here. All right. I couldn't decide whether I wanted to do this guy first or last. I've done a bear from the mid-2000s. think on all of the shows that we've done. And that partially is because of my own lived experience. But I also think there are certain rosters from certain time periods that just have like eight of these guys.

Like the Packers, the 2010's Packers, there are so many guys that you could throw out there. Like Cullen Jenkins is somebody that you could use for exercise like this. Like Nick Collins, we talked about. Al Harris is somebody that would be good for something like this. the Seahawks, early 2010 Seahawks, like, I could, Brandon Me, Bain is somebody that I could throw out for something like this. There are just certain rosters that were built and filled with these types of players. The 2005 to eight bears were exactly that type of roster.

So I'm going with Matt Forte. Matt Forte is my bearer of choice for this show's exercise. Matt Forte is, he belongs on a list like this. He's perfect for it. And I was prepping for this show. I came to his name and I was like, no, like Robert will do Forte or it'll come up somehow, some way. Like, I don't need to bring Forte to the conversation.

So I'm happy to be proven right. I think it was Peanut Toman and Lance Briggs were the last two. And so, again, exactly the same teams, exactly the same tier of player. A couple of Matt Forte things, two Pro Bowls. That was it. Only two Pro Bowls for Matt Forte in his entire career. So he's not definitely not too good for this exercise. Between 2008 and 2014, two players had more rushing yards total than

Matt Forte over that seven-year span. Those names, Chris Johnson and Adrian Peterson. Pretty good. That's it. That's incredible. It was the only two guys who had more rushing yards than Matt Forte over that stretch. And I think the part of Matt Forte that, you know, obviously people that watched him talk about it a lot, but, and if you look at the numbers, they're self-evident as you, like,

look back at his career. He had six seasons with at least 50 catches, which for a running back of that era is incredibly impressive. and what really stands out is that a lot of the guys that we think are really good past catchers, really productive pass catchers, they're undersized backs, they're guys who have a little bit of wiggle to them. Matt Forte is huge. Matt Forte is like a legit six two and change 220. And so you have this guy that was this really tall back, really upright runner is running fades in the red zone. Like he, the ways that they used him as a receiver and all the things they asked him to do for a back

that big. The only guy from that era where he was as productive and as involved in the passing game as a big back that I could remember was probably Stephen Jackson. That was the only other guy that had that much mf to him and was a really heavily involved part of the passing game. So the idea that Matt Forte was like this passing game weapon where they're running him on wheel routes and choice routes and all of this stuff at 6-2-220. There just were not a lot of guys who were bringing what Matt Forte was to the table. We had a chance to hang out with him at the beast release party here in Chicago a couple months ago. And it was such a fun experience to live it out in real time where Matt Forte's,

and obviously like you're in a football space there where everybody there is going to know who you are. But for the three hours, we were there with Matt Forte, it was just a sequence of people being like, remember this? That was awesome. And he's like, yep, yeah, it really was, man. And I completely agree. That's what we're doing now.

So we're going to continue to do that. All right, Dave, you're up again. Who's your next guy here for the 2026 Hall? Very good. So I drifted toward Matt Forte and I decided not to do it because I figured there'd be a good chance somebody else would bring him up. So I went further back in time for a much smaller player, but a very similar mental image at least. Like again, like nowhere near as big as Matt Forte, but a similar package when it comes to a running back. And what I love about him, he was designed in.

a lab for me to hate him and I love him. I absolutely loved him as a player. Warwick Dunn from a man. Warwick Don has not been on any of the other ones. Yeah. Yeah. This is great. You've rectified past mistakes here by bringing up work done.

So he's from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And he opted to go to Florida State, which right there, like, come on, come on. What are we doing? Please go to LSU. In fairness to Work Done. What years were those? No, LSU was garbage in the 90s. There was nothing cooler than Florida State football in 1990.

He's nothing cooler than that. Completely justified in this decision, but by a biased South Louisianaan, it upset me. In the 90s, Derek, Florida State was a very cool football brand. Just I always wanted to let you know. When I was a kid, the Florida Gators were pretty good. Yeah. So actually, that's all I needed to do. All three Florida schools were the pinnacle of cool in the 90s for whatever that's worth.

Mike Norville bringing it back. So he plays his whole pro career for the. Falcons and the Bucks first and then the falcons. So again, this is a guy who spurned me my whole football watching youth. And I could not help but love him anyway. He's such a fun player, 5-9-180 and was drafted in the late 90s, still managed to go 12th overall. And despite all of those doubts about his size, just shy of 11,000 career rushing yards, 10, 9,67, 24th all-time in career rushing yards, much like Matt Forte, prolific receiver, average 48 receptions per year during the course of his career.

So shifty. And he's 5-9-180. So his center of gravity was just unreal. Like he, I mean, he just tap danced through the line and was impossible to bring down surprisingly physical for a guy his size. And then on top, I think it's something you have to shout out.

I remember it got brought up during every Bucks or Falcons game during his career. But he also did so much charity work. is some of the most like notoriously cool shit than any NFL player has ever done. Like the amount of people that, I mean, he bought houses for people. Yeah. It was like a housing-based. He built single parent, uh, built, helped build homes for single parent families because he lost his mom who was a police officer and decided to give back to people in similar

situations. So just did a shitload on that front in addition to just being an amazing football player. And he, he played for, you know, I grew up a Saints fan and he was always a, pain in my team's ass and I couldn't help but love him anyway. He's so good. Obviously the bucks now are like what I, you know, the bucks are, we have a long history with the bucks. Tom Brady won a Super Bowl with the bucks. Like it's our relationship to them as a franchise has changed many times over the 30 years that I've been paying attention to the NFL. But in the mid 90s, the bucks were not an interesting or exciting team. Like that, you can speak

to this. Like they just weren't. And so in 1997 is the year where Warwick done gets drafted. And that is the year where they go from the cremcicle jerseys to the pewter and the red jerseys. Now we are yearning for nostalgia, so we want the crimsical ones back. But when they changed to those pewter and red jerseys in 1997, and then you had worked on Warnts Sapp had just gotten there, the defense comes on with like that entire group of Derek Brooks and John Lynch. They were an incredibly cool team in 1997. Like the uniform change plus all of the just quality players that had arrived there,

there was a really swift brand change for those Buccaneers teams, and Warwick Dunn was a big part of that. They were, like, for like neutral and young observers, a hot commodity. Oh, I've mentioned this many times. I cheated on the Bears with the mid-to-late 90s bucks for several years. I think anybody who came of football watching age in the late 90s, early 2000s, like had a moment with Tampa Bay. They were in the same division, so I watched them live because I would always want to go to the Bucks games.

And so I saw those teams at Soldier Field pretty much every single year when I got to pick the three games I got to go to. Well, and so I'm too young for his Tampa Bay Bucks days, but when he was with the Falcons was like the early Michael Vick era and I grew up in NFC South Country. Like I grew up near Tampa Bay and I went to a number of bucks games

a couple of them against this Falcons team. And so he actually was a player that when I was young, I was like for a guy, obviously he wasn't very big, but he just made plays and made people miss. When you're nine years old watching a running back make people miss like that, it's like the coolest thing in the world. Which he was good in Tampa Bay, but the peak of his career was undoubtedly when he was with the Falcons, in my opinion. I mean, that was with Alex Gibbs, Michael Vick.

And then the other cool thing about work done is he had like the thunder components to the lightning in each of his two stops. He had Michael all sat in Tampa and then he had T.J. Duckett when they went to Atlanta. So he had that like very cool counterpoint in both of his NFL career, like both of his NFL stops. I can't remember what year it was. Alex. Yeah, 2004 is when Alex Gibbs got to Atlanta. And so that was, work done was very much in like the teeth of his Atlanta

Falcons career when that happened. All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back with Derek's next nominee. All right, Derek, who's your next one here? So this, I think, of all the players I have on here is the one who is nearest and dearest to my heart. He's recently retired

in the sense of, I think he would have had two rounds now where he could have been voted for Hall of Fame, has not gotten in there, all that stuff. has not even been a finalist as far as I'm aware. Thomas Davis playing alongside Luke Keekely, unbelievable. Those two were. Phenomenal nominee. That's exactly what we're shooting for.

Carolina Panthers, Lance Briggs. And I basically, yes, yes. That's the perfect way to put it. And like I want to start by laying the foundation of like his story. So he came into the league, played like five or six years. And then he had a three year run from 09 to 11, which were his ages 26, 27, 28 season. So that's your theoretical like athletic prime tore the same ACL three times in a row.

That is a death sentence for like any athlete ever playing any sport. Thomas Davis then came back and only got better. Like he actually reached his peak after that. And it was starting in 2012, obviously Luke Keeckley comes there and they really, the defense comes alive. And then a few years after that, Davis has this stretch from, I think, starting in 2015, three straight Pro Bowls, including a. first team all pro. Like what those two did together, obviously some of their run defense was great.

Like Thomas Davis was a really good run through player. Like if he saw daylight, he was hitting somebody in the backfield. But him and Keeckley together were, I think the best coverage linebacker duo I've ever seen. Obviously what the Seahawks had with Bobby Wagner and KJ. Wright was pretty good. Those two were just the length, the speed, the smarts. It was a pretty, it's why that defense was so good for that half decade. I'm 100% with you on this. He was he's a perfect choice for an exercise like this. He gave you exactly what you're laying out. Just the range with those two guys combined was crazy. It was absolutely crazy. And then you mentioned the ACLs and that huge part of his story, the fact that he was able to overcome that during that three-year stretch. The injury thing that,

to me, was almost more memorable is what happened with his arm. He broke his arm in the NFC championship game in 2015 when the Panthers were 15 and one. And two weeks later played in the Super Bowl. And if you look at it, their pictures in the moment when it happened, his entire arm was like sliced open. And they put like a dozen screws and plates in his arm and just sewed him back up. And so when you,

he took off the sleeve after the game, it looks like Frankenstein. Like his entire arm is just stitched up from top to bottom because he broke it two weeks earlier. And he played in the game. I had forgotten about that. What I do remember about 2015, though, is obviously Carolina goes 15 and 1, Cam Newton wins MVP, and that was when he got first team all pro.

I think him and Keeckley got it together, which is nuts. But at that point, I mean, he'd been in the league for almost a decade already, and it had at least, yeah, he'd already had four 100 tackle seasons at that point and was just like a phenomenally good player, injuries had gotten in the way. And I just remember, like, when Thomas, Davis got All-Pro that year. It was like a ball-knower celebration. Like, finally, this guy gets some recognition.

I remember that vividly, and he's a perfect player for something like this. Derek, it could be fun to go back through history and do the, we did this at Grantland. You would have, like, the belt for a specific thing. So, like, you're the best receiver in the league. You have the belt for that moment. And then you pass it on to whoever gets it next. 2015 is that the Panthers, that both those guys were first team all pro. were transitioning out of like the Willis Bowman era of having the two best linebackers.

Going back and figuring out like who the best linebacker duo in the league was and who had the belt in any specific year, it's like a Highlander situation. Like there could only be one. And so the fact that the Niners transitioned perfectly into the Panthers for that year and then you probably, I don't know, the year after that maybe it drifts away to like, Cage or right, Bobby Wagner. Those guys were good. There was a stretch where I think you can make the case that Dantahe Highton and Jamie Collins were pretty insane there for a minute,

like those two were one. I think that's a good one. Obviously, the Niners guys, like a couple of years ago when those guys were at their peak, like Fred Warner and Greenlaw, that's probably a more recent version. But there is always one. I would have to go back.

I have always, I kind of already have that ready in my head. So we could almost do that off the cusp if we needed to do. Yeah, let's the 27 offseason project right there as we build out our video library. I'm ready. Speaking of the mid-2000 Seahawks, my next guy here. I want to go through just my relationship with this person as someone who was watching football at this time.

So in 2012, that was the first year that I watched the league and studied the league and covered the league full-time. Like I was working at Groundland in 2011, but 2012 was my first full year covering the NFL. And I remember watching games at Simmons's house that fall, and there's five, six games on at a time. And every time I was watching a Tampa Bay Buccaneers game, so he was wearing 71 at the time in 2012.

And every time I, I would watch the Bucks, I was like, who is that? And it was Michael Bennett. And he was just, every time I was watching a Bucks game, he was just flying off the screen. And if you look back that season, he finished with 71 pressures that year. He was one of the best run defending defensive ends in the entire NFL. He was like this perfect hybrid player where on base downs, you could just stick him outside. He would 270, 275.

You could slide him inside in any passing situation. He was phenomenal at rushing over guards. And so I'm watching him the entire year. I did a huge write-up of him in the 2013 off-season when we're going back and looking at the 2012 season. I was like, this guy is going to get paid. Like, he's a free agent. Like, he is somebody that deserves a ton of money. And then the Seahawks signed him to a one-year, $4 million contract in 2013.

And I was like, this is highway robbery. Like, I cannot believe they were allowed to do this. And they signed Cliff A-Role in the same off-season. and lo and behold, the 2013 Seahawks are one of the most dominant defenses we've ever seen. They waltz their way to a Super Bowl. And it was in part because they're getting guys like Michael Bennett who are like legitimate pro-ball talents for pennies on the dollar for reasons that I still don't fully understand. 2013 was my first year covering the NFL. And I was just a Cowboys beat writer.

So, I mean, you do your best over time to follow everything because it makes you better at your job. But at that point, I was swimming, just trying to keep up with what was going on with one team. And I remember, I remember Bennett signing in Seattle and not knowing any better and like not thinking that was remarkable at all. Just like, okay, like this guy's changing teams to go be part of whatever's going on up there. And then, yeah, him and Cliff Averill both just, I mean, two of the most. I think listeners of a show like this, you might not consider them unsung, but, you know, in the population at large, when you just go down the list of people responsible for those Seahawks teams, I think you would say a lot of names before you got to Bennett and Averill,

but that doesn't make them any less instrumental in what happened there. They were dominant in that Super Bowl, too. I mean, most of those guys are dominant, but the past rush in that Super Bowl was just overwhelming. And the Averill and Bennett duo went a huge way in making the feel like that. And it was funny, you mentioned the Cowboys. If you were covering the Cowboys in 2012, you would not have been surprised about Michael Bennett. Because he had two sacks in that game against Dallas in 2012.

I remember that game. There was one, I mean, I think it was like maybe the header photo on the thing I wrote about him in 2012 is him just decapitating Tony Romo. There were plenty of games in that 2012 season where he looked like the best player on the field. And the fact that the Seahawks were able to get him for next to nothing and he could be like one of the, pivotal players and what that Legion of Boomfront felt like, it was the rich getting richer in a big way. And he's like a perfect guy to explain how that defense was so special. Obviously the players in the back seven were amazing, right?

Like Richard Sherman was incredible Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner, those guys. But what they were able to do could only be done because the front was so, so good. And the fact that they were able to piece that together with, I mean, four million bucks at the time, I guess it's like, you know, a lot less than it would be, or a lot more than it would be now. But still four million bucks, it's nothing for a guy who was playing at his level. It has nothing to do with his play on the field, which was very good. But I just have a random memory that's burned into my brain is after the miracle comeback to beat the Packers in that NFC title game,

he was just riding a bike around on the field at what was then CenturyLink. Just to, I don't really, I never found out why. But I just remember watching him riding a bike around on the field after that game and thinking, this guy kicks ass. So even if, like to your point, Derek, the cap was a lot smaller than it is right now, that season, that $4.8 million, it was $4.8 million,

it was 25th among all-edge players in his cap hit for that year, 25th in the entire league. And he was giving you top 10 play at minimum. 100%. Especially when you think about it as a two-way player. Like his pass-rush production was really good, and he was consistently one of the best run-defending edges

in the entire NFL could play inside for you all the ways he was impacting the game the idea that he was the 25th highest paid player at that position that season as a free agent is ridiculous also final note on him bizarre aesthetic and it's kind of like adds to the mystique of why he was such a great player even wearing like 72 like the fact that he was a more 72 for his entire seahawks time is adds to that I think a little bit which goes back to my point I will make this point as many times as I have to. The player makes the number. If you kick ass, 72 will look cool.

I've got some, I have some guys on my list here. We can try to get to who wore outside the box numbers. And guess what? If you rock, your number's gonna look cool. And you're gonna be like, oh, man, that's, that's kind of sick that he wears 72. I don't disagree with that. I just think that you have to overcome it.

You're setting up a barrier to your own success in a way that it just feels like you're stepping on a rake. don't need to. Just be a good player. That's all. Stephen Jackson, 39. Another good example. How good would he have been if he was wearing... 23? Stephen Jackson's a little bit different, though, because he weighed like 240. The idea of like that back that

big wearing 39, I think that almost adds to it. Alvin Camarra in 41. Maybe we're talking about him in this show in a couple of years. Here we go. Stephen Davis. What a transition. What a transition. He is the next guy on my list. So Stephen Davis had to overcome 48. Yeah, you can admit this.

But he did, and it looked awesome. Stephen David, Derek, if you're not, I'm unfamiliar if I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. Stephen Davis was a running back for first Washington. That's incredible. And then he had a resurgence for the Carolina Panthers in the early 2000s. I think he got drafted in like 98. 96. I'm going to be that right now.

In the 90s, early 2000s. Six foot 230, just a big old guy. And he wore number 48. And that is not a great number for a star running back. unless you have three different 1,400-yard seasons and score 65 NFL touchdowns. And then you know what? It looks pretty badass. 65 touchdowns.

The idea that Stephen Jackson had two seasons with a dozen rushing touchdowns and they were six years apart is actually pretty impressive. Wait, Stephen Jackson or Stephen Davis? Steve Davis, excuse me. He had two seasons with at least 12 rushing touchdowns. They were six years apart. One was in a year where he only had 180 carries and he had 12 touchdowns. Good for him. So I, Stephen Jackson is a guy that makes total sense if you want to bring him up on a list like this.

I think he's a little too good. And even if the like even if Stephen Jackson doesn't make the Hall of Fame, his fantasy status, like Stephen Jackson was in national commercials back in the day. The Nike commercials would potentially put it over the top, unfortunately. Stephen Jackson is a little too famous. Stephen Davis, I feel like, has fallen by the wayside. Three time pro bowler. He was second team all pro one time. But man, but like the numbers are so, so good.

And he was, he dealt with injuries toward the end of his career. But like you said, the fact that he was able to do it over a long enough stretch of time, he finished 55th all time in career rushing yards. And the 65 touchdowns is top 50. So certainly not even close to being a candidate for something like the Hall of Fame, but such a good player. And then in 2003, he gets, he goes to Carolina in 2003. And that was the year they lost that Super Bowl to Tom Brady.

And he was just, he was amazing. 1400 yards, eight touchdowns. What I thought was most interesting when I went back to look this up. I thought him and Deshawn Foster were like, in my head, I was like, oh, those guys were a nightmare tandem that terrorized the NFL in 2003. Deshawn Foster had 400 yards in the regular season. He was big in the playoffs. In those playoffs, he was amazing.

He had 200 yards and two touchdowns in the playoffs, including one in the Super Bowl. And that's on top of what Stephen Davis was able to do. Yeah, I think it kicks ass that he wore four. Just a big train. 79 yards a game during that playoff round. 64 carries for 315 yards over those four

playoff games for Carolina 2003. By the way, tied it all back around. Stephen Davis's final year. Played with Stephen Jackson, 2006. Is that right? With the St. Louis Rams. That's pretty good. The same team.

Do you remember Stephen Jackson though, Derek? I remember Stephen Jackson. Okay. That thing was a strange. Stephen Jackson's too good. Stephen Jackson's too good because Derek remembers him, but Stephen Davis has been lost to history. Do you remember the Nike commercial with Stephen Jackson?

Not off the top of my head, no. I don't, it's hard to describe to you how important Nike commercials were to the stature of players that were in them during that time. The best Nike commercial of all the time, still to this day, is the Ludani and Tomlinson, Troy Powell Malu one from my 2006. Oh, wait. Which I believe was directed by David Fincher. I think so.

Where they're like in the various game situations? Yeah, when they're growing up. When they're like, they show them as like little kids. Oh, I'm thinking of, wait, which one am I thinking of?

This is bad. Hang on, let me. Yeah, David Fincher directed, I'm pretty sure David Fincher directed that like, they'll leave nothing like. I'm thinking,

I'm, I'm thinking of the Stephen Jackson, Sean Merriman commercial. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you have not seen it,

Derek, you'd have to go watch the fate Nike commercial from like 2006. Okay. For Stephen Jackson. No. Or the L.T.

One. Okay. Well, I guess both. They like, they, it's, it, I think it's Exorcty of Gold, the song from, uh, the good, the bad and the ugly is playing the whole time.

And it's them like, it's clips of them as like little kids and then they like get older. And then it ends with them like on the field together. It's go look it up if you've never watched it before. It's very, very good. Okay. And speaks to a different time. This is,

we're on a tangent. But I feel it's very, it's, this is the perfect show for it though. The other one, I go back and rewatch them all the time are the fantasy football commercials Oh of course the fantasy files Chris Cooley

Digging through the drywall To catch footballs from the jugs machine I watch that like once a year Is it Mason Crosby banging him off of like the bell tower Right? Yeah there's a lot of Andre Johnson's like catching punts from the jug That's real that one's real that one's real

Any of the Andre Johnson stuff is actually real Got it Am I up? No No, no I think Derek's up No oh yeah because you just just Stephen Davis. Yeah.

Okay. All right. I've done a couple of defenders here. I'm going to move over to the offensive side of the ball, but we're going to talk about a big boy. Mikey Upati was awesome for the San Francisco 49ers. And then for a little bit for the Arizona Cardinals as well. But I remember him because this was right around when I started like really seriously watching football,

like around the Harbaugh era 49ers. Like this was a little bit when I started like watching. film and all that stuff. He was like a gap scheme demon. Like what they were able to do with that offensive line. And obviously with the quarterback once Colin Kaepernick took over, but like that run game was so good because of the way that he was able to move people. Like he, I looked this up to because like obviously he looks big on film. 330 pounds with a almost 35 inch arms. It was insane. What do you do? What do you do when that guy gets his grips on you? And so he just, I remember him like, And it was funny too, and I think this is why he's kind of a good Hall of Fame,

a very good candidate in the same way that like Thomas Davis was. I think by most people's estimation, he was never the best offensive lineman on his team. Well, that's also a product of the team. Well, right. No, exactly. Like, the team was obviously incredible, but like Joe Staley was always to his left. And especially playing left tackle, like that guy is always going to get a lot more of the credit and whatever buzzed an offensive lineman is going to get.

But Mikey Apote next to him was just like constantly matching people. He made four Pro Bowls in a row. I think it was 2012 through 2015. And one of them was on the Cardinals. So this was not just like it exclusive to him playing for the 49ers and during that run. Like he still had a really good career after that when things obviously fell apart for the Harbaugh era. So there are not like earnestly there are not that many like dominant offensive linemen. I remember early on in my like seriously analyzing watching football, at least interior guys.

My Q potty was just like that guy is different. the worst starting the worst offensive linemen on those teams was probably Anthony Davis who was the 11th overall pick in the draft and like isn't considered somebody who was like a bust even Jonathan Goodwin

was the center on those teams right I believe he was I'm just pulling that but I'm pretty sure it was Jonathan Goodwin was the center but and then Alex Boone was also like a massive mauling guard on those teams and those offensive lines were crazy like the those

the way those teams were built in the Harbaugh era and just the fronts on both sides of the ball just full of ass-kicking dudes and Mike Ayupati is probably the best possible example of that. It's wild that San Francisco had two different eras where their roster was that loaded. But I mean, when you make the NFC championship game with regularity two different times in a decade span,

I mean, it makes sense, but just two different, completely different eras where, it just felt like their whole too deep was pro bowl caliber players. Jonathan Goodwin was there for three years. He was the center from 2011 to 2013. So I'm counting that. That was a good chunk of those seasons. All right.

My next one, let's stick with the big boys. I'm going with Snacks Harrison. Oh, man. That's a great one. I'm tempted to say he's too good. One pro bowl. Well, okay, the thing that works in your favor is that he's a space eating,

detackle and those guys just don't get postseason accolades. He was a first team all pro one time. And I typically try to avoid any sort of first or second team all pros as part of this. But it's his only postseason accolade that he ever received in his entire career. It's recent enough where I assume a lot of people who listen to the show remember watching Snacks Harrison. But his best couple seasons were a decade ago now, so I don't want to assume too much. We just wish somebody a happy 23rd birthday on the last mailbag. I assume KH or whatever his name is.

I assume KH wasn't watching Snacks Harrison in 2017. So Snacks Harrison for four years, five years, was the best run defending defensive tackle in the league? Like for an extended period of time, he was the best run defensive, run defending defense tackle in the league. And Dave framing him that way is correct, right? Like he is like a big nose tackle. But a lot of the guys who are these big nose tackles are simply speaking. eaters. He was incredibly productive. He led the league per PFF in run stops three years in a row. He had 52 of them in 2016. That's crazy. He had Snacks Harrison had multiple 80 tackle seasons.

Just nobody like him in the league at that point. That's crazy even for de-tackles who like their thing is to get into the backfield, you know? Like if like a Grady chair gets 80 tackles, that's crazy, let alone someone who was eating that much space. Being that big and then you watch him just like being able to control blockers playing down the line of scrimmage, like the combination of anchorability, size,

and being productive in playmaking and being a disruptor in the way that he was, there was truly nobody in the league like him. I mean, he was, and he was incredible with the Jets. That Jets' defensive line overall, like Muhammad Wilkerson is a candidate for this sort of exercise.

I was like Muhammad Wilkerson, Calvin Pace was a good player back then. Those Jets D lines were really good. But then Snack-Sarrison goes from that Jets D-Line to the Giants, and then you watch him in 2017, doesn't miss a beat. Like is just as good, just as dominant, just as effective. And he was truly in the class of his own when it came to interior defensive lineman defending the run during that era of the NFL. He is such a great pull because, again, like his prime here is like right when I started

kind of doing this stuff seriously. And so until Vita Vaya came around, Harrison was like the guy I put on the pedestal for like, that's what a nose guard who can defend the run really looks like. Like that is play in, play out, picture perfect football for what it looked like. For again, like you said, like three, four years, which actually is a lot for that position. It doesn't feel like noses.

There's only ever like one or two guys in the league at most, as a pure nose tackle who like have sustained success like that. Obviously, as of late, it's been like Vidaway and Dexter Lawrence. You really only get one or two of those guys in the league at a given time. The fact that he was that guy for that era, he was awesome. I'm kind of shocked I didn't know this because I'm a draft nerd. Damon Harrison went undrafted out of William Penn College, which is an NAA school. That's not, like, that's not Division 1, 2, or 3.

That's, he doesn't get brought up enough in terms of like undrafted success stories. Michael Bennett was also undrafted. too undrafted guys. Michael Bennett played at Texas A&M, though. Like, that's, there's levels to to this. That's crazy. Yeah, there's, I could, if you really wanted to, and this is, it's an entirely different exercise and the point of it is different, making the case for guys on can court, I could absolutely make like a full-throat argument about why Snacks Harrison is a whole fame level player, but he doesn't have nearly the accolades to be involved in those sorts of conversations. And so I am happy and excited to acknowledge and appreciate his career.

in a space like this. Let's do, that's another great segue for my next guy, which is another big player. Before we get to that, let's take one more quick break. All right,

let it roll. Another big guy, played in the New York area, played a position where it can be hard to stand out or get accolades. Debrickshaw Ferguson.

Great one. Great one. Wow. Both those teams, again, and Nick Mangold was such a good trainer on those teams. Like the offensive

and defensive lines in that era of the Jets underrated. I'll be honest. And he was a, good player in his own right to Briggishaw ferguson three-time pro bowler he was the left tackle for both of the jets teams that made the runs to the a fc title game with rex ryan across those two playoff runs so multiple games over multiple years seven pressures and one sack allowed in the jets reaching the

oh nine and 10 afc title games i think that would have been the colts and the steelers yeah um just a phenomenal player, but I'll be honest, the thing that really blew my mind about De Brickshaw Ferguson is something I didn't learn until years after he retired because he was drafted top five in 06, played till 15. Do you know about his Iron Man thing?

De Brickshaw Ferguson only missed one snap in his NFL career. That's crazy. And it gets way better. I got to give Kyle Brand credit for bringing this to my attention. He did a video about it some years ago. and it blew my mind when I saw it and I've remembered it ever since. He played 10,707 out of a possible 10,708 NFL snaps.

That's insane. He was never on an injury report. Okay, but it gets better. He would have the Iron Man streak that Joe Thomas has right now. He would own it if he hadn't been pulled out of a game in week 17, 2008 season. Eric Mangini is the coach. It's the year before Rex Ryan gets there and the Jets get good. They pull him out to run some bullshit pitchy, pitchy woo-woo end-of-game thing.

They put Dorel Revis in at left tackle because it's some gimmick shit. And that is the reason he doesn't own the all-time consecutive snaps played streak. It's the only snap he ever missed. How much does DeBregosha-Shufferickson hate Eric Manjini? We need an addendum for how that's count. That is absurd. And that is how that gets. According to the internet, he was never on the injury report,

playing on the offensive line in the NFL over 10 years. Those are all very notable and very important football accolades. I would argue that in terms of DeBrikisha Ferguson's lasting legacy, the most important thing he ever did was inspire the key and peel bit about the East West Shrine Bowl. I don't think I knew he was the inspiration for that. He was the reason that they did it was that there was a guy named DeBricot Shah and they had to

they had to mine this territory. So I don't think that sketch exists without DeBricashaw Ferguson, which is more important. In terms of like, no offense to DeBrigashaw because he was a really good player, but in terms of like lasting cultural impact,

it might be the appeal. It might be. One more thing, he's a registered nurse now? Like truly just one of the most interesting people that I can think of in the NFL sphere. It's a great one. Yeah.

Really, really good. We went to Brickshaw Ferguson. All right. Derek, what's your next one? All right. I'm actually calling a little bit of an audible, and I'm going to go back to a position I've already mind before,

and Dave will actually be very familiar with this player. Sean Lee, another very good linebacker from there. Oh, man. Oh, really? Sean was on my short list. I, you can get into it.

I'll talk about why I didn't end up choosing Sean Lee, but I fully, fully support this. Part of it might have been like if he just had better, like, health, he would have been a player. That's the reason. Because he didn't end up becoming a player that was a Hall of Fame caliber player because he got hurt. That's why I didn't want to include him.

But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be talked about in something like this. And it wasn't one thing, right? Like obviously he missed, I think, the entirety of the 2014 season with the torn ACL. But every other year it was something with him. And that was kind of always the issue. But when he was on the field, like I remember, again, this is like the really the start of when I started doing this. Sean Lee was one of the best coverage players in the NFL and one of the best pure run-through

player. Like a lot of the stuff I actually said about Thomas Davis kind of applies to Sean Lee. Like Sean Lee found a way to get his hand on the ball in a way that not that many linebackers at that time really did because if you think about it too, like he was drafted 2010 out of Penn State and then obviously starts to have his peak closer to like 2013 through 2016-ish. There still weren't that many linebackers who were like great coverage players by that point. Like we were still kind of in an era coming out of the earlier 2000s where it was a lot of run and hit, a lot of downhill. And Sean Lee could do that and he was a big guy.

He really was a special coverage player in terms of what he was able to take away, playing with the quarterback's eyes, driving on the ball. And so he to me, along with guys like Kikley, along with guys like Bobby Wagner, felt like he to me was one of those guys who fostered in a different era of like of linebacker in the NFL. So just a phenomenal football player. Yeah. I mean, it's Dave, no, you don't have to convince me about this. Like,

he's one of my all-time favorite players. I went to Dallas in 2016. I think that's how we met. It might have been. I think, like, you, you went to the facility to write about Sean,

and I saw you there and, like, knew who you were from your work. And I'm pretty sure that's how we met. I pitched a story about him and that year, Because that year, that 2016 Cowboys year, was obviously this magical season that no one could have seen coming because Dak was a rookie.

And so Dak and Zika were rookies. Tony Romo had gotten hurt. They have this magical year. And so much of the talk was about the offense, the offensive line, what they were doing. But the fact that Sean Lee was healthy for that season because he wasn't for the 2014 season when they went on a very similar run,

it was like a very cool part of that Cowboys year is that Sean Lee really got to be a part of it. And I just always loved watching him play. and he was somebody that could just never stay healthy. And so I remember going down to Dallas and writing a story about him and reporting it out and talking to a bunch of different people. And there were so many different anecdotes that stuck out.

But he's truly one of the smartest football players I've ever spoken to. He was in the Cowboys front office for a couple of years. Now I think is his own company, but he was doing a remote scouting for them. He's working on like analytics and stuff. Dude did it right. Made a lot of money.

Went to Santa Barbara for a vacation once, fell in love with it, bought a house in Santa Barbara retired there. just the dream. Like, if you have the money to do it, like this man knew what he was doing. And the story that always sticks out to me in the pre-draft process,

the Cowboys, Uyber Flus was the linebacker coach at the time, and he had like a questionnaire, essentially like a test for young players after he would teach them the defense. It was 40 questions long. And Sean Lee got 39 of the 40 questions right on the questionnaire.

And five years later, still remember the question he got wrong. He's like, I couldn't remember. remember like what a certain B-Gap Blitz was called. And so just his like football acumen, he existed on a different plane than a lot of guys do. And you combine that with just toughness,

range, everything else. He was a phenomenal football player. I personally, and there are dozens, hundreds of guys like this across the NFL, especially at linebacker, I feel like. It's just a position where you have to be wired a certain way.

But me personally, I have never spent time with a player who was more about ball than Sean Lee just all the time always like you just said like remembering shit he got wrong like five years after the fact i remember i interviewed him for a walter peyton man of the year story when he was nominated for it one time in dallas and listening to him and um his wife talk about how mad he would be for like days after the fact after a game his wife is also great she was yeah just talking about how he's you know

he would just flip out at like three days after a game is over about something that went wrong during the game. It could have even been a game that they won. He just like held himself to this crazy high standard. His position coach or his defensive coordinator in college gave me a quote for the story. I was looking up what you were talking. That it was one of those things when you're reporting something out and somebody says it and you're just like, God, I hope that thing is on. Like I just wanted so bad. And he said, Sean is the kind of guy who's trying to play the perfect game.

He's never going to, but that's what he's trying to do. like trying to play a perfect football game and Iber Fluse that year in 2016 when they played the Giants it was the highest single game grade Iber Flus had ever given to a linebacker I think he finished with 22 tackles in that game wow

the Cowboys do they still do it you call it a Blue Star special they love to draft guys in the second round who wouldn't be there if not for some reason so Sean Lee was one of those guys because injuries were such a problem they did it with Randy Gregory

because of the failed drug tests. They did it with Jalen Smith because of the knee injury. And Sean is weirdly an example of both things where like he played to this amazing level and he never should have been picked where he was but his career would have been that much better with a little bit better health. So obviously one that phenomenal choice, Derek.

They both appreciated that. Right. I got to say to narrowing down which linebackers I wanted to go to here was hard. There are so many that like, or guys that like, like had like barely not been outside of the five-year window or whatever it was like picking which linebackers I wanted to go was was difficult all right so I'm up again right yes speaking of white guys from that era let's do this I'm going with jordy nelson I saw this I saw this coming when you

were posting clips of him on on social media I was just going through different guys again the packers are one of those teams where you could pick donald driver's easily a receiver from those packers teams you could throw into something like this like the packers had so many of these types of players. Jordy went to one Pro Bowl. Which is, no, that can't be right. Kind of crazy. One.

No, there's no way. One time. I really, I like my comp that Jordy is Aaron Rogers as Marcus Colston. Like, it's the same shit, different team. So in part of the, another reason that I think that's actually really good is that if you look at some of the advanced numbers, Marcus Colston's always like in the top seven for players in that era in terms of like efficiency. The guy who's often near the top of that list is Jordy Null.

So overall, okay, between 2011 and 2016, for players with 50 targets, there is one player from that in that six-year span who averaged a higher EPA per target than Jordy Nelson. It was Rob Grancowski. It's it. Jordi's targets were the second most efficient of any player in the NFL for that six-year stretch. Gronk was the only one ahead of him. And what I think is so remarkable and why I think Jordan Nelson,

we need to keep breathing life into players like this. If you look at a picture of Jordy Nelson and 20 years from now, you ask somebody what type of player Jordy Nelson was, you're going to get a very specific type of answer and it will be wrong. Jordy Nelson was one of the most dangerous, deep threats in the NFL for like a multi-year period.

He was 20th in targets of 20 plus area arts in 2011 to 2016. 20th, okay? the only player with more touchdowns of 20 plus air yards in that six year period was a j green that's it jordy had 20 of them on a hundred and six targets a hundred and six deep passes he scored 20 touchdowns that that's one at one of every five times they through obviously know some of that is aaron rogers always puts it on the money but like jordy was like he was a track star who was 215 pounds like he was he also and Why he was so special, and obviously this is part of like the Y Rogers was so special. Obviously, Jordan could like win down the field.

But his ability to just flip his hips and like catch that sideline ball and toe tap was just like. That was that was it. It was the back shoulder stuff. And like the mind meld that those two guys had, his late hands were insane. Like he wouldn't even react to a ball like an over show over the shoulder fade ball coming his way. Look at the one he caught in the Super Bowl. The one he caught in the Super Bowl against the Steelers. he's waiting so the last possible second

and then flashing those up there. And then the back shoulder stuff, I remember I did an entire thing about it. I talked to both of them just about the body language, how you develop the timing and the chemistry and how he always knows. And at the time, beyond the back shoulder throws, he was as good at working the sideline, period,

of any player in the league during that stretch. Like his body control, the toe tap type stuff. And so you have all this refined receiver stuff, along with the fact that nobody in the league was catching more big posts over that three or four year period than Jordy Nelson. Like he was affecting the game on so many different levels. That during that stretch, that six-year stretch, he averaged 1.44 EPA per deep target.

So every time the Packers would throw a 20 plus yard pass to Jordan Nelson, they would get a point in a half. Let me just say here too that, I mean, those first ones you throw out were counting stats, he missed the 2015 season. Yes. and he still as high up there as he is. That's the touchdowns is crazy. AJ Green had 73 more 20 plus area targets

and one more touchdown during that six year period. Jordan Nelson was really good. Also, I want to quickly say on the Pro Bowls, he got robbed by his own teammate in 2011. Greg Jennings, who was obviously a really good player, but played 13 games and only had 950 yards that year. Jordan Nelson had like 1,400 yards. and over 10 touchdowns.

How was he not the package receiver that made it that year? The one that sticks with me. Crime. Forever. And he's got a dozen of these, I'm sure, probably more. But 2011 late in the season, ironically, against the Giants who wound up, who wound up beating them in the playoffs, he just, just this disgusting back shoulder sideline ball to, you know, effectively ice the game for Green Bay, just contorting his body.

like his knowledge of the sideline, his ability to high point the ball. It's another thing I would compare him to Colston with, too, where back shoulder balls between the accuracy of the quarterback and what they could do up in the air, just an unguarable play for both players. On top of wall. Yeah. Those, again, those Packers teams for a lot of reasons live pretty prominently in my mind,

some good, some bad. And so there's always going to be some Packers I'm sorting through in an exercise like this. This time around, Jordy was the guy. All right, let's go rapid fire. who was like two or three. Do you want to save it for next year? Or do you want to go a couple of rapid fire that you did not get to?

I don't want to empty the clip, but I'll give a couple more. Mainly, I just, I want to do this one and see, I feel like this is a guy Derek's going to love. Reggie Nelson? Reggie Nelson was great. Those Jacks teams period were incredibly special and fun. And what he did in Cincinnati, too. Yeah, he was a good player in Cincinnati. But I remember him a lot in Cincinnati.

Because it was him and I think they also had, um, was it George I loca? They had George Loco. I can't believe I remember that, but that's who it was. Those guys and like Vante's Burfect was on. Those dudes were just slamming people on that defense. Two things I want to say. We'll go rapid fire.

So Reggie Nelson got hurt in that, in the famous playoff loss to Pittsburgh where Antonio Brown got knocked out, didn't play the second half. Here's the stat I want to leave you with for Reggie Nelson. More career interceptions than Brian Dawkins, Tyron Matthew, and Earl Thomas. And Kevin Byard, who's obviously still playing,

but right now he has more picks than Kevin Byard. I think that's insane. He had eight, that 2015, that 2015, that 2015, that 2015, it was so good. He was so good. He had eight receptions. His rookie year, it's, he's obviously more well known as a Bengal,

but his rookie year, he had five picks for the 2007 Jags, who are still one of my favorite all-time aesthetic teams ever. Maurice Jones drew David Garrard those guys on defense John Henderson Marcus Stroud That was the year

they beat the Steelers in the playoffs And then Brady went like 20 of 22 against them in the playoffs John Henderson 2023 athletic football show Hall of very good inductee Which not the least

But surprising It's Rachine Mathis Like I just was a huge fan of a lot of the stuff happening on those teams So Reggie Nelson Very good one

Any others That entire 2015 team Bengals team, I want to say. Like, obviously we all remember the offense, but that defense with those guys like Carlos Dunlap and Michael Johnson were like an edge duo after my heart in the sense that they were both like 275 pounds and as long as trees. Those guys were incredible. Obviously, the DBs on that team were good.

So that is another one. We're like, is somebody that like is a whole very good candidate. Marvin Jones finished with seven, almost 7,500 receiving yards in his career. Like, that's just a really good NFL career. I'll throw out two more quickly. Another completely underrated, nearly forgotten about safety from that time frame.

Antoine Biffay. Yes. Really good player. And then this is a childhood hero of mine. He was before the Breeze Peyton Saints, like before the Saints being a team worth watching was commonplace. Sammy Knight. Sammy Knight.

Sammy Knight, dude. That's even off my mind. radar. Sammy Knight was a phenomenal safety for like the early 2000 Saints. He also played for the Dolphins and the Chiefs. One time second team all pro. He made one pro bowl. I'm telling you, Sammy Knight was like one of the only good things about some dog shit Saints teams. That's why I don't remember it. There was not watching a lot of New Orleans Saints football in 1999. When when they broke through with Jim Hazlett in 01, he was second team all pro for the team that won the Saints first place. off game. Sammy Knight. We're really digging deep here. I love this. Underrated player.

Derek, you got a couple guys you want to run through very quickly. I think a lot of the other ones I have here are probably too good for the exercise, so I'm going to leave it off and we'll rework my strategy for next year. Okay. I feel very good about this class. This really does speak to the spirit of what we're trying to do here. It's a great class. And Katie's got a special graphic for them. Like, it's, this is an eye. Do they get jackets? Like, do they get, maybe we can send them. That could be next year's merch contest. We could send them, cool sweaters because this is a very sweater-friendly show, you know? I'd be curious to hear what these guys would have to say if this matters more to them than

getting into the Hall of Fame would. I assume it's at least on par. Like if things you dream about as a little kid, getting into Canton wearing the gold jacket probably at the top. But being a part of the athletic football show hall very good, probably in the top three or four. Hey, if we can get them silver jackets, I mean, I don't know. Some geeks on a podcast really liked watching you play. great that that's what it's all about i'm sure snacks harrison will let us know uh that was incredibly fun

very much enjoyed getting back to that we will not let three years pass between uh this class and the next class so we'll be back to it next summer appreciate all of you guys tuning in we will be back again tomorrow with our next lingering questions show very much looking forward to that apologize for taking a week off from those we did it for a bunch of for reasons, but we're still going to have five coming your way. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an

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