The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Idiot's Guide to the 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

The NFL schedule is demanding. So demanding, in fact, that someone who covers it as closely and passionately as, say, Robert Mays, doesn't have a ton of time to pay attention to college football. So on this episode of The Athletic Football Show, Robert turns to two of The Athletic's pillars of college football and NFL Draft knowledge, Andy Staples and Nick Baumgardner, for a much-needed education. It's the Idiot's Guide to the 2023 NFL Draft.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Andy on Twitter: @Andy_StaplesFollow Nick on Twitter: @nickbaumgardnerThis episode is brought to you by Betterhelp, Visit betterhelp.com/mays today to get 10% off your first month.Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube2:59 The quarterbacks21:13 Non-QBs in the top five25:21 Will Anderson28:43 Jalen Carter32:58 Cornerbacks36:43 Tight ends48:00 Offensive tackles51:38 Pass rushers56:26 Skill players60:01 Bijan Robinson64:46 Questioning certain pre-draft narratives Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today. It's draft time. We've officially turned the page to draft coverage at the Athletic Football Show. And around this time every year, I need a crash course in the draft because I've been spending most of my time, almost the entire offseason, looking at free agents and what the veteran player movement is looking like in the NFL. While other people have spent their time boning up on the prospects, who's good, who's not, what this class looks like.

It is a necessary education for me every single year. So to give me that education, we're tag team in this this year with two guys who know a hell of a lot more about this than I do. First off, the host of the Andy Staples show and prospects to pros on this feed, one of our wonderful college football writers at the athletic Andy Staples. Annie, thanks for doing this, buddy. My pleasure, Robert. My pleasure. Also joining us today, a fantastic member of our draft coverage team here at the Athletic.

It's Nick Baumgartner, who I think this is your first time on the show? I'm not sure, maybe. I mean, this is, hey, this is the perfect time, though, if it is because this is the idiot's guide. And I mean, hey, look, I am an idiot who denied you found two idiots. I am the idiot. I am the idiot. I always feel a little bit bad when I go to the combine. every year about how little I know about the prospects. But then I'll talk to head coach of X team

and I'll ask him about a guy. He's like, I have no idea who that is. I've never watched him. I have absolutely no idea who that is. So it always makes me feel a little bit better. And now this is the right time. You know, this is, it's March 27th. We've got about five weeks until the draft. And this is where we're at. So I'm very excited to dig into this. We're going to talk about this subject specifically more in depth on Tuesday with Nate and I, but I feel like we have to start this with the quarterbacks and what this group of quarterbacks looks like. So before we take into the actual guys, Andy, I was curious, could you kind of characterize this group compared to, let's say, the 2021 group when we had three guys go in the first three

picks and there were four in the top 11? Is this a similar class overall in your mind? No, there's no Trevor. Yeah, okay, so that's a big difference, right? The Trevor's coming next year. Trevor's Caleb Williams, the one that everybody will want. Yeah, and Drake May might be the other Trevor next year. But there's nobody like that this year. Everybody has some sort of knock that you're going to say,

well, this is definitely not a perfect prospect. And it's funny because they're so different all of them that it almost is going to feel like whatever your personal flavor is, whatever your personal tastes are, are going to dictate how you end up stacking them. Yeah. It's, and it really is, it comes down to. what you want, scheme fit, what matters to you more, whether it's physical attributes,

whether it's intangibles. And it's a fascinating thing because it's almost like a, it's almost like a Rorschach test for these guys. See who they pick. How are you tearing it, Nick? Do you feel like Stroud and Young are one step above the other two guys? Do you feel like the other two guys, Levis and Anthony Richardson for this The Idiot's Guide, are kind of in a similar place? Like, how are you stacking them up personally? I think that's fair. but I think all these guys, and that speaks to sort of Andy's point about everybody sort of has a question. What I've sort of landed on is like, this is not a generational quarterback class, but it's certainly not a bad one. And all those guys that we just talked about right there are all starters.

Like that's where I start with this whole conversation is I think all four of them are starting level quarterbacks. You take them in the first round and you don't have a problem with that. I would tear it, Stroud One and Bryce beneath him. And you could probably be interchangeable with that. I think Dane has gone back and forth on that some throughout here. I'm not sure where he's at right now. But beyond that, there's a space, and the space exists because Richardson and Levis need some more work. Like, they need more time.

And I think that that's really why it's there. But really, I don't know, Andy might agree that the upside on Levis and especially Richardson would maybe be higher if you can get them to, maybe not Stroud, but maybe higher than Bryce Young if you can get them all the way where they need to go. Both of them have higher upside than probably any of those people that we've been talking about, except maybe fields in the 2021 class that we were talking about. But, you know, it is such a project with both of those two that it's going to be really polarizing because there will be teams that are like, we can fix that. And there'll be teams like we will not touch those guys. Right. So digging in a little more of the nuance between those guys, a little bit more projects with like Levis and Richardson specifically, Nick. what separates them in your mind?

If you're a team like the Colts picking at four and you're going to be picking between those guys potentially or a team like the Raiders at seven and you're thinking about maybe going up for those guys and they're still on the board, what separates those two if they are a step down from Young and Stroud? Yeah, what separates them would be in that

if you're splitting the two of them, Richardson has got the potential to be, you know, arguably the most unique talent in the league, but you know, at some point, if it all goes together, if you have the right environment form, if you have the right fixed form. And I hate to say that because it sounds like Levis is nowhere here isn't good enough.

But like Levis is also very athletic. He's in this, it's a similar conversation. If Richardson wasn't in this class, that's, we'd be talking about Levis as the guy that has the physicals to be, you know, that type of player. But Levis, the same way, has the same type of, you know, physical everything about his body, the way he moves, his arm to be a dynamic weapon.

But more so Richardson. And I think that that's why he's been polarizing. but he's also been a guy that nobody stops talking about always every single day. So, yeah. Richardson's the best collection of tools at quarterback since Cam. And he's actually a better athlete than Cam. He's a little better. In terms of raw athleticism.

The difference is in 2010, Cam won the Heisman, dragged an Auburn team that was not all that great other than Cam to a national title in an undefeated record. And Anthony Richardson went six and six at Florida. So significant difference there. But, well, I mean, I would say he didn't have everything around him either, Andy. I mean, the receiving court at Florida wasn't amazing. Let me tell you. All right. All right, Nick Baumgartner.

Let me give me a little trivia question here. I've thrown this out on prospects to pros a few times. Okay. Can you tell me how many combined starts the rest of the 2010 Auburn offense made in the NFL? Oh, no. It's going to be really low. 15? One.

One. Oh, God. Now, unfortunately, they're tied in, Philip Lutzenkirk and passed away the summer after he would have played for a long time in the NFL. But like Osiris Torrance, who was playing guard with Anthony Richardson, will start a bunch of games in the NFL. Trevor Etyen, the freshman tailback at Florida, will start a bunch of games in the NFL. Like, that's actually not the best comparison there.

Yes, it's better than that. Yeah. I'm looking at the guys right now. Michael Dyer was the running back on that team. I can't believe Michael Dyer never found a home. He wasn't, I can. You know what happened to Arkansas State and all that? He had some issues toward the end of college.

Darvin Adams was the leading receiver. He had, I think, 52 catches that year for 963 yards. Emery Blake was the other big name receiver on that team. So I think the point stands for you there, Andy. And I always love hearing your perspective on this, Andy, because if somebody who lives and breeds college football, you have such a unique look at what these guys were in college, and then what they become as they get filtered through the pre-draft process.

So among the quarterback specifically, whose pre-draft narrative is furthest away from the guy that you watched every single week? It's Richardson. It's definitely Richardson because he's a 53% completion guy in his only season as the starter. If you watch the Florida State game, it's kind of his season in microcosm where first quarter and a half, maybe it looks like he can't miss, and then the second half he can't hit the broadside of a barn. And it is shocking initially when you hear he's going to be a top 10 pick. He's like, what?

Are you sure you want to take him in the first round? Now, I will say doing the podcast with Dane and Lance and then also being around all you guys at the combine and being around a bunch of NFL people at Combine. I was like I was talking to an NFL scout, I know, who obviously, recruits or he covers this area where I live and I live in Gainesville, Florida. So this is where Anthony Richardson grew up, where he played in college. And he was less, this scout was less skeptical of Richardson than I was. And I'm like, you're not that skeptical, really?

He's like, dude, humans like that don't exist. Yeah. And that's the difference. Because if you really break it down, quarterback's taking the top 10. What are they about a one in three hit? I mean, they bust a lot. So if you're going to take a risk on somebody who may bust, at least take the one with the highest upside.

So I get where it's coming from, but it is really hard to reconcile what I saw over the course of the 2022 season with sure thing, top 10 pick. Okay, so let me throw this out there. Josh Allen, in both of his final two years at Wyoming, completed 56% of his passes. He threw 15 interceptions his second to last year there. He started 27.

games compared to 13th Richardson, but he started them in the Mountain West and wasn't exactly this otherworldly dominant force in those Mountain West games. He was good the next to last year, even though he didn't complete a high percentage. His numbers were pretty good. The last year was terrible. And, you know, he lost a lot of his receiving talent that year. But, like, you watch that Iowa game from Josh Allen's last year at Wyoming and you're like, nope, this is never going to work.

And I was really down on him and I was wrong because he fixed it. And the problem is we always bring him up because he's the only one. Yes. Like we talk about Jalen Hertz improvement as a passer. Yes, Jalen Hertz has improved dramatically as a passer. But Jalen Hertz was like a 68% completion guy in his last year in college. Like he wasn't an inaccurate passer. The thing I would say though, and then I told you this at the Combine, I think, Andy, is that my argument is still that NFL team

teams, specifically offensive play callers, quarterback coaches, head coaches are so much more advanced today in how they look at quarterbacks, how they bring him into the league, how they cultivate things around him. They'll design an offense around him where they wouldn't have 10 years ago. So I just think that it depends on where he goes. If Houston or somebody like that wanted to take him, then you're like, oh my God, what are you doing? But you look at some of these teams that are set up for it. And we've talked about that all year, they're set up for it. I mean, if you want to if you really want to take the time and put put the work in and hire good coaches. I think you could find better coaches in the NFL now to cultivate a quarterback than you

wouldn't call you. You could argue that. And you, I don't know if you could. Oh, I would. Yeah, I would definitely argue that because everybody wants to leave college football because nobody wants to recruit. Yeah, it's a hard, it's a hard conversation because it's never happened, but it's also like the game's changing. We said the same thing about Trey Lance.

And it's, you know, the book's still out on him. He got hurt. So I'm not going to close it. But it was like he went three. And that wasn't by accident, you know. To me that if you're considering the different timelines for Anthony Richardson, okay, let's do timeline one where he's the third quarterback taken. No one trades up to the third overall pick or the Colts do and the Colts take him at four. You don't even need to put much imagination into it to understand how flexible the Colts offensive coaching staff is. Like Shane Stuyck and just did it. Jonathan Taylor is like the one big back who didn't do read option in college. Like I do I do read option like crazy with Anthony Richardson and Jonathan. Taylor and Jonathan Taylor is the one back out of college who didn't do that while he was in college. Shane Steichen completely shifted and changed what he wanted his offense to be around

Jay and Hertz because they understood what they had a quarterback. So if that's the place where he'd have to play right away, I have so much more faith like you guys were saying in Stuyken and that staff to build the right type of offense around him. But if we go beyond the Colts, a lot of the other teams, potentially taking a quarterback in the top 10 that could land on him, he doesn't need to play right away. If the Seahawks take him, the Lions, the Raiders now have Jimmy G. So I think they're, and even if Atlanta, let's say Atlanta just gets totally intoxicated by the tools.

I think they'd be more than happy letting Desmond Ritter take some lumps for the first half of the season, for the whole season. I don't think that they're going to put the car before the horse before they need to. So I think there are a lot of different potential outcomes here with him where he could be an advantageous circumstances that a top 10 pick is not normally afforded when they get into the league. It's really hard though because it's all there and it makes so much sense. And it's like, why would you just take him one if this makes so much sense? But you're like, but he has to be ready. It has to click.

And that's the thing that Andy would always bring up where it's like, well, go back and watch every game. There's like for every spectacular play he makes, there is something in there that you're like, what is he doing? What's going on? Exactly. Because the defenses are going to be better. The defenses are going to be better and faster and more advanced in the NFL. It depends on how much you want to dump on him and how much he can handle. And that's why I've said every time somebody asks me, it's like it's just going to depend on how good your GM and scouting department are

at really getting to the heart of who he is. And if your staff can handle the teaching of, you know, what that means. Andy, obviously, Anthony is the furthest away from what he was in college. I'm talking about him now. Do you feel like the discussion and the discourse around the other three guys is fairly aligned with the players that you watched in college? Levis is an interesting one because I don't know that Levis was particularly productive. He not not near the level of C.J. Stroud or Bryce Young. The difference with Levis and I this is why if I'm an NFL GM, I'm looking at this, is Levis operated an NFL offense both years as a starter at Kentucky.

the Liam Cohen offense he operated, his junior year, is the Rams offense. Right. Or a dumb down version of it. A volume was a little bit less. They had to change some things formationally because the hash is, but for the most part, a lot of it carries over. Right. Yeah.

So I would be confident in him being able to quickly operate an NFL offense. Now, what he's got to convince people of is that he was way more hurt than people realized last year, which apparently. he was. His foot injury was pretty bad. But he's tough. Teammates seem to like him a lot. He's got a lot of tools. Like Richardson. I mean, he just happened to come along the same draft as the most athletically gifted quarterback we've seen in decades. And Levis would be that guy, if not for Richardson. We'd be like, whoa, this guy is huge and he's fast and he's got a big arm. And so that one, I think you can talk yourself into that.

But I also could see him falling just because his ceiling doesn't seem as high as Richardson's. And you have some of the same questions. And he started for two years. It also feels like there aren't that many places that have like a severe urgency to draft a quarterback outside of the top five. I think there are a lot of teams who might be interested in having that as a future plan. Again, the Raiders are one of them. Like, let's see what a team like the Vikings does if they like a guy. Like, there's probably some teams lurking out there.

But similar to last year and why some of those guys fell is that I don't think there are that many teams that are like, we need to put a guy in that seat right now. Carolina is one of them. Houston is one of them, probably the Colts. But I think after that, it becomes a little bit muddier. Yeah. We had a conversation on prospects of pros and Dane pointed out, there's never been four top 10 qubies. It was four in the top 11. Yeah.

There's never been four taking in the top 10. It's entirely possible there's a cut line that we're not seeing. Yeah, right. Where three guys go and one guy drops into the 20s. And he gets picked up in kind of Jordan Love territory. Yeah. Which is probably fine for one of those two developmental guys. I think Levis is that guy.

And that's what it seems like is more likely. I don't know if that happens. But my thought every time I talk about this to people is like, would you trade up for him? How much would you give up for him? I don't know. Like, I mean, maybe I'd wait and see. But if he's this toolsy, What's your concern?

It's the same thing like Andy said. He's had more time than Richardson. And not every concern that you have with Richardson because Levis's mistakes aren't as like extreme. But there's a volume of them and they're pretty consistent. And he was injured and he did have a bad. And Kentucky's offense last year wasn't exactly functioning the way it was the year prior. So there's a lot of. Why didn't all that athleticism express itself?

Also, why didn't he beat out Sean Clifford at Penn State? Now, perhaps that's, yeah, perhaps that's the Penn State coaching staff, but I always go back to the Mitchell Trubisky thing. Like, Mitch Trubisky could not beat out Marquise Williams at North Carolina. That is not the second pick in the draft. It's just not. Like, that is a simple fact that should eliminate him from ever being a top-ton draft pick. But the Bears didn't see that. Let's go to the non-quarterbacks here.

Nick, how would you kind of classify the top of this draft compared to the last couple drafts? You know, in 2021, even if we moved beyond the quarterbacks, we just had like rock solid superstar potential guys at several different positions at the top of the draft. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like at least, let's say in January before things transpired, we were talking about Jalen Carter and Will Anderson that way. Is that the line to you? Do you think they belong in the conversations with the Kyle? Pitts is in the Jamar chases, and is that where the cutoff is? Yes, I think that those are the two guys where we would say they have something that are close to generational traits and talents and what they put on film, especially Will Anderson,

of course, and Jalen too, but and what we've seen from them in general and different types of different roles, different settings. I think both guys have their best football ahead of them and both guys have played outstanding football behind them. So those are the two, though, and that's the big point is it's like, because I've, I've spent so much time to look at the lions. I live here in Detroit. And they're at six. So like if things shake out the way they shake out and you're sitting at six, you're like, well, now this is not the same. That's where the cliff kind of comes. And it's,

Tyree Wilson is a nice player, but he's not Jalen Carter. He's now Will Anderson. So I think that, or same thing with like a Gonzalez, if you wanted to go corner. I think there's a dip there. And it's, I disagree a little bit on Tyree Wilson because I think his ceiling is very high. You think as high as Will? He's not as polished as Will. he actually, feeling could be as high. Yeah, ceiling could be as high because he's physically a different person.

So I was going to ask you that, Andy, when you watch tech, because he's been mocked in the top 10 pretty much everywhere I've looked recently, and you look at, he had seven sacks his final year at Texas Tech, but this guy who's 6-6-275, 35-inch arms,

and had some production. You know, I think he had 14 tackles for a loss last year, so you combine that with sacks. He got hurt and was playing hurt a lot of the year. Like, I just remember watching the TCU game last year,

the Texas Tech TCU game and TCU is obviously one of the hottest teams in the country and everybody's like, well, these guys are going to win the Big 12 or they're going to go undefeated? And Tyree Wilson was wrecking them for a while. So when you watched... Is he going to beat these guys by himself?

When you watched him, you saw a top 10 pick in your mind. Yeah. Okay, yeah. And you could see that against Texas and against some other teams. And he just, when you think about that combination of size and speed,

it's weird seeing it come from Texas Tech. We're not used to them. producing good defensive player. Now Jordan Brooks playing for the Seahawks. He was a first round pick out of there, but it's not common. They haven't had a top 10 pick. The Big 12 has not produced a top 10 pick defensively. I believe since Justin Gilbert.

Yeah. Which was nine years ago. Yeah. Ross Blacklock was a late first round pick. Blacklock and then Jordan Brooks is another one. I mean, there have not been many even in the first round in the last five years, let alone in the top half of the first. round. Would you, would you take Wilson, he's a top 10 pick, clearly. He's a top six pick. I think he's

the next guy in the stack. How high would you take him? Would you take him as high as you would take Will or Carter? Carter is a stuff aside, let's say. I would take, Wilson, I would take as high as Carter or Andrew. I take Anderson first, because Anderson feels like the surest thing. But yeah, I would put him in that echelon. And then the cliff. And then the cliff. That's fair. He's not on the, he's not down the cliff. Like, I got him, he's up the cliff. Well, that's the thing. It's, it's, it is a ceiling play.

It is not a, we saw it all in college. It is a, we saw flashes of it. And if it all comes together and, you know, we just talked about an offensive coordinator building a scheme around Anthony. Like, this is the type of player, a defensive coach builds a scheme around. It's like Trayvon last year with the Jaguars a little bit. Andy, Willi Anderson is somebody who's name I've heard for, years. Even as somebody who doesn't watch a lot of college football, he's been the guy or the

next guy for a really long time. Let's say your team drafts him in the top five. What are you getting in Will Anderson? A guy who will come in and be good right away, who will handle his business, who will be one of the leaders on your team immediately, who, you know, your front office is never going to have to worry about him. They're going to want to put him out there as the face of the franchise. He's just, he's a joy to be around. Like, he lights up a room. That type. of person and works his ass off and just he's not super flashy he's just now he is twitchy athletic bendy all that but he's not crazy huge crazy fast he's just play after play after play now he didn't have as good of the season this past year he had 31 tackles for loss in 2021 yeah right

he was right 2021 2021 was insane Derek Thomas type numbers oh my god I didn't realize that that's unbelievable because people are like oh Will Anderson fell off no no no no he just didn't didn't break go to the moon like he did the year before that's unbelievable

so Nick I'm curious play style wise like who does he remind you of I know comps are tough but like the way he moves what he looks like like give me an idea of what sort of player we're getting on field in terms of like the actual movements. When I look at him, yeah, it's such a great question because I think there's so much more we haven't probably seen from him yet.

Like one thing, like Hutchinson last year was a guy that not many knew he could drop and cover and run around in space. And I think Will is probably a guy that we could see do some of that as well. He's not the same type of player, but I think the versatility of being a guy who never leaves the field. And that's why I talk about a lot. He could be a three down defensive line in the NFL who has value on. on first and 10, third and long, second and short, every down.

If you have value and you never leave the field, you're really good. And like that, to me is Will Anderson. Like, he's the definition of that. That's what Aidan Hutchinson was in a different package. And to me, that's what Will Anderson is. He's also really relentless. And most of the time, that works well. Sometimes when he's not playing as well, he can get frustrated.

Like in the Texas game, there's a very uncharacteristic, late hit penalty on him. Because you could tell he was not having the game he wanted. and it was just like, ah, but it's almost always a mistake of caring or effort, which you can live with. And he had more snaps kind of as like a four eye on the interior, doing some dirty work than it might seem for a guy talked about. Alabama is not a program that cares about people racking up big sack numbers or anything like that.

I never cared about that. But the work there stands out, or not? Exactly. And look, he, he. He's scheme versatile because he is so twitchy and so bendy. So if you're an even front team, you can find a way to, I mean, you're going to play him on the edge. But if you're, if you're an odd front team, you can slide him down as a four-eye or you

could have him as a five or you can do a bunch of different things with him. You can drop him. I wouldn't worry about dropping him. I think that would work because he is that good of an athlete. Talking about Jalen Carter and Nick, most of what I know about Jailen. and Carter, because again, I'm not knee-deep into this in November and December. Right. Is the stuff that's come out over the last couple weeks or so or the last month or so.

So I'm curious, like, just how dominant was he? Because as someone who hasn't seen a lot of them, what I've heard is most of what's happened since the season ended. Right. Yeah. It's important to know because you actually have to, if you went back even further and Angelbilt talked about this too, like on that crazy Georgia defense the year before, the first of this back to back, many people who thought watching back then that Jalen was the best guy. group or at least the most explosive. He was, yeah, he was the best individual player of that team,

which had the number one pick in the draft and they were great. And other first rounders on the Dior Davis, you know, I mean, he stood out. Devante Wyatt was a first rounder too. That's my, my first, like, he stood out next to Jordan Davis with the explosion and the getting off the ball and just he runs around, like one of his, one of my favorites of last year, I think is one where he actually just drops and spies, I think against Mississippi State, guy rolls out and he just chases him down like a defensive end. And he forget for a second that he's as big as he is. You can defend the run.

It's everything. He can do everything inside that you want a guy to do and do it. Against Alabama in 2021, there are a couple times where they had him spying Bryce Young. Yeah. As a defensive tackle. A guy that big. That's crazy. And he's got those feet that just, you know, there's not a spot in any trench area on either side of the ball that he couldn't play.

That's like that's the type of athlete. Chaling Carter is. Yeah. Now, are you going to get, is he going to give you the same effort every down? Probably not. But how many interior defensive linemen do that if we're being honest here? And how much do you need it from him? I think you need it more than he showed at times, fair.

But he's also a young guy, and that's a whole other department to get into. But yeah, you don't need it every scene. He doesn't need to be a three-down guy every single play or every single series. But I mean, when he's out there, he's going to make a lot of stuff happen. So let's get into that department. Because when I was talking to somebody in the fall about him for the first time, the first thing I heard is that there were some personality concerns. And this is before anything came out of the combine.

This is probably in October or November. So, Andy, with everything that's happened, how real do you think these concerns are, you know, based on people you talk to in the college game? Like, what sort of presence was he at Georgia? Like, how much do you think teams should be worried about how things have gone with him? I would ask more questions about what happened off the field. I'd want to get real comfortable with that. The practice habit stuff, I don't know.

It actually is the same conversation we're just having, the play-in, play-out effort stuff, which I'm sorry, big defensive linemen are different. Especially that good, man. It doesn't always work the same way. So that part I'm not as concerned about. I would want to get comfortable. like why are you racing in the middle of the night? Why are you doing this?

And look, I can't say much. When I was 17, 18 years old, I would try to get my car over 100 miles an hour too. Right. Like, it wasn't safe. It was stupid when I did it too. And so I can't say, don't draft this guy because, I mean, there's a lot of people who've done stuff like that. But you do need to dig a little deeper into. choices, decision-making, that sort of thing.

Because you want to make... The point of all this is making sure he's available to you. And is he going to make a decision that makes him unavailable to you? That's where you've got to get comfortable with it. Yeah. Listen, as somebody who did plenty of ridiculously stupid shit when I was a young person, I don't really have a lot of room to talk here. But again, it's just something that will it linger?

Will it have an actual effect on what he can give you year in and year out if you're going to spend this type of draft pick on him. I assume that's the question the teams are asking themselves. Yeah, and that's what it is. And if you get comfortable with that, you're going to take him in the top five. Christian Gonzalez, you guys mentioned him. He's somebody else that I think consistently is getting mocked in the top 10. I keep, you should be doing this more often as I'm the idiot. Corner from Oregon. Dane seems to love him. Seems to be one of Dane's guys. So Nick, what type of corner are we talking about here with Christian Gonzalez? Is he like in the sauce Stingley, Sertan level?

Is he a step below that? What is your team getting if you draft Christian Gonzalez in the top top? I think that he has the ability. He's, you know, he's an athlete that's probably closer to a Derek Stingley and how he moves. He's the best mover, I think, probably in this class in terms of just on the field anyway. I think some people were a little underwhelmed by his testing in indie. But if you really watch and play, there's really not much concern about how he kind of looks like a race car a little bit when he runs around out there, how he can turn, how he

we can move around the agility. I've had questions about the physicality there too, but at the same time, he's such a good athlete. And I think that the full package that you get with him overall probably makes him CB1. This has been really hard, the corner class. Dane has been on him since last summer. Well, since Colorado, because that's what I asked, Dane, because Christian transferred from Colorado to Oregon before last season.

And I asked Dane, I was like, when he was still playing at Colorado, did you guys feel the same way about him? And Dane said, yes. He was generating buzz at Colorado, which was not, they're not a good team. No. But he was flashing himself. I think I can watch it. He's right.

Right. And then he goes to Oregon, gets put around better athletes than he was around, and shines even brighter. So I think he was probably a first round picketty state at Colorado, which tells you a lot. because that was a terrible roster. And he just was everything you want in a corner, even there when he was being asked to do all that stuff. So him, but Joey Porter Jr. is another one. I think he could wind up being a really productive, good NFL corner who had to play against a bunch of great receivers.

So I was going to ask you guys what the strongest position groups are next. And we can just transition a corner if you want to. Nick, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this is a good group of corners compared to other classes. So when you're stacking those guys up, Gonzalez, Weatherspoon from Illinois, Joey Porter Jr. Like, how are you trying to differentiate between them? That's the best question because you're 100% right, that this is a really nice group of corners. And it's been one that when you get deeper and deeper into it, there's a lot of guys that end up with first round or fringe first round grades the further down you go. But I think, I think for me, it's like when you're trying to split it at the top because Gonzalez,

order, Witherspoon, you could even talk about a Forbes or a Banks or Cam Smith. But those top three guys, it's kind of like, what does your team need? How do you play defense? What's your style? Do you change it up? I mean, it's sort of like, what do you need? So for me, it's how do you, how does your coach coach? So in Detroit, it was if you're going to track the corner at six, that corner is going to play for Aaron Glenn, which means he's going to need to be someone who's comfortable with press, comfortable getting screamed at, comfortable playing physical and downhill. So I would say they're more of a Witherspoon team. Whereas a team that's not going to ask a corner to do that as much would be a Gonzalez team, even though I think he could probably do some of that. So it's really about feel at that point. And I think it's been curious to see how it goes because it could be a range for all those guys and it could be all over the place. Andy, I wanted to ask you this for pretty much all the positions that we're going to talk about because I feel like you could really cut through this.

Is there a guy among this group in a good or bad way that we're just overthinking in this process? At corner, not really. Okay. I think everybody's got a good beat on it. Now, you asked about deep positions. I think tight end is really deep this year. I really like the tight end class.

And it's really, it's so interesting because it comes down to kind of what flavor do you want. I was going to ask you, like, what are we really looking at with that group? Like, what are these players? And maybe they're all so different you can't actually give a tight synopsis of it. Like Michael Mayer from Notre Dame is kind of good at everything. Yep. Not great. at everything, but good at everything.

Dalton Kincaid is an incredible pass catcher. He's not as big, probably not going to give you as much blocking in the run game. Darnell, Washington from Georgia, changes what you do in the run game. Yep. Just completely altered. He's basically a third tackle on the field, but he's also an incredible red zone target and a better athlete than, well, I think everybody realized how good an athlete does at the common. mind. And I think he could be a better pass catcher in the NFL than he was at Georgia,

because Brock Bowers, the tight end he played with at Georgia, is better than most of the tight ends in the NFL already. And everyone in this class. Yes. Yes. So who else now, Nick is further down that list? Because I know that there's more of them. Oh, yeah. I mean, you get down to Musgrave, the kid from Oregon State. Who are you touring for Tucker Kraft? Sam Laporta, baby. The best player on the worst. offense in the country. But the thing, like Tucker Craft, yeah, Laporta,

Musgrave, who am I missing here now at the top of my head? All of these guys. Lou Schoonmaker from Michigan is a kind of complete guy. All these guys can do everything. Like that's sort of why I feel like this is a cool class in that so many years it's been like you're either a hammerhead or a slot. You're either the guy that's the extra tackle and you can't catch or you're a slot and you go out and you can't block.

like all these guys can they can play every down and that is why and i think andy correct me from wrong i can say this to everybody all the time this is not going to go away this is happening in college football more teams are getting more open to letting these guys do more things these really freaky athletes put them on yeah that instead of just saying i don't know where to put you yeah they say i'm going to build something around you and i have a theory on why there there are more of these guys coming out of college football right now that body type has been phased out of basketball. All of, and if we look, all of these guys played basketball growing up, every one of them.

Yep. The 6-5-662-200-pound guy used to have a place in college basketball. That used to be your four. That doesn't exist anymore because the fours are now six, eight, and two hundred, thirty pounds, and they can shoot. Yep. And you better be able to handle it. That's really interesting. Better be able to make three-pointers.

Like, so that position is being phased out of basketball. So those guys have to go somewhere. Well, they're incredibly valuable in football. And I think football coaches are taking advantage of it. It's interesting, too, because if this is considered a down receiver class, which you guys could correct me if I'm wrong on that or push back on that. But I think that's been the characterization is that there aren't that many high-end guys that there have been in years past.

I think the teams around the league are looking at past catching options as more of a holistic thing now, where, all right, we're sitting there with the 20th pick in the draft. we need a difference maker. I don't know what position he plays, but I need him to catch passes for me and give some juice to my offense. I think that there are going to be some teams who look at tight end as a potential answer to that

if there aren't as many receiving options traditionally on the board in this class. And they should. Because tight ends are mismatches by definition. Their job is to be a mismatch. They should be too large for a corner or a safety to cover and too fast for a lineback.

to cover. Ideally, that's the best tight end. The only thing that concerns me with tight end as a consideration there, it's twofold. One, the timeline on which these guys develop is extremely slow. Very rarely are you going to get a guy who is going to be a contributor in year one as an inline tight end because of how different the game can be. And two, thinking about it from a more value-based perspective, if you're spending a first-round pick on a tight end compared to what the market looks like at tight end, you're already paying premium for a player that essentially needs to be good from day one for you to extract value

from the contract. Here's the thing, Robert, this class is so deep. You do not have to do that. So that's the question is, do you wait into rounds two and three? And then you kind of wipe that concern off the board. I don't think anyone's going to want to wait. They're going to wait, but it won't be that long. It'll be earlier than we, you know what I'm saying? It could be end of round one or like you're saying, Robert, it could be into round two, but I doubt it because these guys are toward the high end, but that's such a great point, and I agree a thousand percent, and that the problem that most people have with this

ends up being that the tight end is asked to do a lot in these offenses, a lot a lot. And most of these guys, not all of them, most of these guys cannot run block in the NFL tomorrow. They won't be able to do, I mean, it's going to be a process. Not all of them.

Darnel is a guy that I think would be fine. So, yeah, and you're not going to get the fully operational version of what you drafted until probably year three. And that's what you have at tight end there. It honestly reminds me, a little bit. Andy, you can, I'm curious what you think about this. It reminds me a little bit of the developmental curvet off ball linebacker. Just because of everything that's happening in the box

and the amount of stuff you're being asked to do, a lot of guys drafted high don't do that well. They're essentially analogous positions. Yeah. So, I mean, that makes perfect sense. I mean, we look at this. So, okay, we're going back through the last however many years. Okay, T.J. Hawkinson was a top 10 pick. Noah Phant was a first round pick. But other than that, you know, the only first round pick in the last couple years at tight end was Kyle Pitts, who was very, very different. He was an alien. Okay?

So you go back to 2018, Hayden Hurst was the 25th pick. Weirdly, he's like one of the two or three best physical comps for Michael Mayer, if you look at their testing numbers. And then 2017, there were several of them. OJ Howard, Evan Ingram, David and Joku. All guys that I think are very interesting case studies when we're talking about this. OJ. Howard never developed. He was supposed to be so safe, remember?

He was a five-star recruit. He was big. He was a blocker. He was supposed to slot in right away. Never happened. Evan Ingram takes Team 2, five years into his career, six years in his career for us to figure out who he is. And David and Joku signed that pretty considerable extension with the Browns.

I was like, what the fuck are the Browns doing? He's, you ever caught more than 40 passes in a season? And then last year, on that extension, David and Joku looks pretty damn good. but we're talking five years after he was drafted. So it's just such a unique position. Look at the best tight ends in the game and where they got drafted. Exactly. They were not high draft picks.

They were more projects that, you know, people kind of projected and figured out how to develop. So that's why, again, that's where your Sam Leporta shows up. That's where your Luke Schoonmaker shows up. Luke Schoonmaker is just such a titan name. Oh, it is. And a big 10 tight end. Exactly.

Exactly. But like Will Mallory at Miami, I think he's more of a pass catcher than a blocker right now. But he's a guy who played in an offense that was very bad last year and couldn't get him. But he became kind of the main threat. And I think in an offense where you have a competent quarterback and receivers that actually scare people, a guy like him could be very dangerous. If you played for a good coach in college, a good offensive coach, and those are also the guys typically, Leporta aside.

But a lot of these guys, he's been played in the system, and you know what I mean? If they're known how to operate, they come in and it's not a learning curve because they're running, you know, the best teams involve the tight ends in the run game in so many ways. The emotion, they line up the fullback, line up an hback, move them around.

They ask them to do a ton of stuff, the smart coaches, the good ones. And so if you're getting a guy from Notre Dame or Georgia, or someone like this, Michigan, you're going to get a decent player. And I think that's what you're trying to find to cut down on that curve because it's always going to be there. Let's stick with the big boys here a little bit because it feels like offensive tackle is another group that is fairly strong when you look at how many guys could go in the first round. Peter Skoranski from Northwestern has been considered a top 10 pick tackle guard wherever he ends up with arm length. Paris Johnson from Ohio State, Broderick Jones from Georgia, darnall Wright, from Tennessee.

I didn't have any of these schools written down. That's pretty good by me. I just knew all of these. So are these guys, Nick, that you feel like, are all pretty solid options for teams that just need a starting caliber tackle in that range of the draft? I ask for a team that probably needs a starting right tackle and is drafting ninth overall. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, Skoronsky is like as good a fit as you're going to, I think that's a great fit.

Or Paris, too. But like, I mean, I think Scoronzi with the local ties there. The fact that you need a right tackle, darn it all right. So this is my question. This is my question about this group. Do not play him at left tackle. He's a right tackle. This is my question about Darnell right, okay?

Everyone that I respect keeps talking about how much they love Darneau Wright. He tested great. He was at the senior ball, right? Didn't he play well at the senior ball? So why isn't Darnell Wright a top 15 pick? Can you explain this to me? They tried him at left tackle. It didn't work.

Some people are just more comfortable on one side the other. Sometimes it's the stance, like the left-hand, I remember just myself, I hated playing out of a left-handed stance. Yeah, I never could. It feels wrong. And so, like, Darnel right, they tried him at left tackle at Tennessee. He wasn't what they wanted him to be. He was great at right tackle. Some people are just great on one side of the ball. Yeah. And he can play guard a little bit too if you needed them too. I think that had versatility there with him. Another thing, though, Skoransky, Paris, those guys could play right or left or they play inside. Like there's the versatility.

Some of these guys are really athletic and really interesting. This is a decent, solid tackle class. Like, I think there's some good ones in here. The Skoronsky thing, I know, I get the arm length thing, but he plays well against really good competition. Like, I'm not worried about him. We just did this with Slater. And Skoronsky is, I believe, stronger than he was.

when he came out. I think that's what they say. Last time I talked to Kurt Anderson, I believe that's what he said up at Northwestern. Like, people get this wrong on him. I don't, we just did this with Rashon Slater. I mean,

but people have their whatever, but I think he's going to be a really good player. I don't think you can argue much with that. I mean, Slater's wingspan. It was 80 and 8 inches, which is the 41st percentile. Skorotsky's is 79.5.

It's the ninth percentile. So it's like, it is a little bit of a different, consideration here when you think about where they stack up historically. That's fair. But at the same time, yeah. Listen, the T-Rex was a mighty dinosaur. It really was pretty good.

Andy, same question about the tackles. Do you feel like there's anybody, maybe it's darn all right, that we've just overthought in the process already where it's driving you. I think it is darn all right. But the thing, but again, I will point out the darn all right thing. Don't take him assuming you're going to make him left tackle. Take him because you want to plug him in at right tackle and have him play until either you pay him or he leaves as a free agent.

That's my, my team needs a right tackle. I also think that the Eagles are probably okay with what they did with Lane Johnson, taking him forth overall. I think you can draft the guy in the top ten and just put him a right tackle and be okay about it. Tristan Wharf seems like he's been fine for the buck so far. The pass rushers outside of Will Anderson and Tyree Wilson. These are other guys that are kind of sniffing around the top dozen picks or so

according to all these mocks. We got Lucas Van Ness, a prod product of Barrington High School football, which is a powerhouse program. Nolan Smith from Boston College, Miles Murphy from Clemson. Van Nesson, Nolan Smith. Nolan Smith had a very different career at Boston College than he actually had at Georgia.

You shorted him two national titles. Boston College is like, oh, Boston, Boston. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Wherever they went to school, he tested very well. He did. He did. He was,

I don't know who I'm thinking of that went to Boston College why I'm throwing somebody in there. Maybe I'm just... Matt Milano went to Boston College. Matthias Kiwanuka? Maybe that's it. Anyway, Nolan Smith went to Georgia. But these are two guys in Van Nesson Smith specifically that tested very, very well.

So are these guys that just tested very well? Are there guys that people should be excited about, Nick? Like, what sort of prospects are these two, maybe outside of what they've done over the last month? Nolan Smith is like one of the best football players, period, in the class. like just as a defender in general, like all of the things that Georgia asked him to do outside of all the like, you know, I have a lot of pass rushers. They had a lot of guys that had a lot of nice counting stats.

Nolan moved around, played some coverage, defended the run a lot and did a lot of dirty work. And then it was, I think, cool to see, you saw his personality come out too at the combine. I think a lot of the, Andy would know this better than I would, but I think a lot of the Georgia players really like him a lot. Everybody loves Nolan Smith. And it's just a great dude.

And he could be one that goes, way higher than people realize. You saw why he was the number one overall recruit in his class. Interesting. He was. Okay. He was big time. And, you know, I think one thing with Georgia that makes it tough to evaluate is Georgia

asks a lot of really good athletes to do a lot of things that usually great athletes are not asked to do. The dirty work guys get asked. But Georgia, they're all great athletes, so somebody has to do the dirty work. and they're not again they don't they're not going to scheme up a guy to have massive sack numbers that's just not what they do and so it's hard to tell with nolan smith like if you put him in a different kind of defense where he's just going to come screaming off the edge with that speed is he going to put up big number like we don't know because he wasn't asked to do that it's the same with travon walker last year who didn't do much as the past rusher last year right right

Right, but he's not, now, different types of people. Bigger person, different position. But yeah. But yeah, so you just don't know exactly where he fits. I think that's the case of, if you're taking Nolan Smith high, you need to have a very good plan for him. You need to know exactly how you want to fit him in your defense and to take advantage of all those athletic traits. But I think he seems like a willing. person in terms of coachability, in terms of just, hey, whatever you need me to do, I'm going to do it.

So I like that. Yeah. I would also say have an open, him and Van Ness would be both guys that you'd need to plan for, but also guys that you'd want your, whoever you are drafting there, you'd want your coordinator to have an open mind. Because I think that both those guys could become something that, again, like, I don't think we've seen their best football yet. I think Van Ness especially with the, not just because of limited reps, but I mean, we've seen

him limited reps go inside and just abuse guards. And then we've seen him go out and just wear tackles out. And he's a hockey player for crying out loud. Like, I mean, we don't know what these guys could be. And I think so you got to have a role for them because they're still learning in some ways. But you got to also have an open mind. So when they're ready to go and change, you need to be ready to do that with them.

God, no one Smith at that size. Just like being really toolsy and like we'll bring him around a little bit slowly. I just imagine him being dropped in with Philly with a 10th pick. Just like, all right, there you go. It's crazy for me because Nolan had a good college career. He did. But he actually didn't live up to his recruiting hype. So like I think he did because he won two national titles and he was like the straw that stirred the drink on the team.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Was he? In a back doorway. Was he? Yeah. He probably was the strong. The problem was he got hurt this year.

So he didn't even, didn't play at the end of the season. But no. I mean, Nolan's a guy I think I would want on my roster. just because he's going to be a great chemistry guy, and he seems very willing with all that athleticism to do whatever you ask him to do. Yeah, you'll go to fight with him for sure. So positions that maybe, again, aren't as strong in this class,

the receiving options, the wide receiving options, you know, this isn't a group where there's going to be multiple guys in the top 10 or maybe even the top half of the first round. Jackson Smith and Jigba, Zay Flowers. He went to Boston College. Quentin Johnston from TCU. Andy, which of these guys, even if they're not drafted outside the top of,

10, do you see being really productive players if dropped into the right offense? Quentin Johnston, big, fast, smooth. Kind of, I apply my Tyler Lockett theorem to him. So when Tyler Lockett played at Kansas State, I had this epiphany. Like, there's certain guys that the defense knows that they're getting the ball, that they will be force-fed the ball. And there's not a lot around them. So you can really scheme them up.

And still they produce game after game after game after game. That's what Lockett did at K State. Now, Johnston is a much more dynamic athlete version of that, a much bigger. And listen, he was the threat in the passing game for TCU last year. And nobody could stop him. Nobody. So that tells me that you put him. with more talented teammates around him so the defense can focus less on him, that's going to be a

problem. Do you think we've been unfairly pessimistic about this group, Nick? Yes, I do, because I keep calling it the island of misfit toys. It's like they're all oddly shaped. They're all different. They're all a little bit, you know, like Jackson, Smith, and Jigba is such a great example because he's just not a burner in the way that we would typically see. but he's you watch him run even at the combine you can watch him run drills and you see what

kind of an athlete this guy is they're all a little different and they all just have little things maybe that you wouldn't quite like about them traditionally but they all are productive they all know how to play uh all these guys that we've talked about like i agree with andy johnston is the guy with the highest whoa in the class but like jackston is going to fall and somebody's going to get like the one of the best route runners we have seen in a long time and he was that as like freshman he was is a freshman in college, which is nuts. And I mean, I think Jackson is so smooth. Yeah, because I mean, it's one of those things where Alave and Garrett Wilson were great receivers.

And they were like, oh, this guy who's younger than us, he's better. He's better than us. And then there's this other guy who's younger than him, who's even better, Marvin Harrison Jr. So the consideration there, right, and having watched C.J. Stroud a little bit as I've started preparing for this, Marvin Harrison Jr. is ridiculous. But he's somebody that profiles us. that like true number one superstar type player. The question with Jackson Smith and Jigba is, is he going to only play inside?

And if he only plays inside, what is the cap on the sort of impact he can have on an NFL offense? Right or wrong, it seems like that's the conversation that's probably going to happen. It's fair because I think, and that's why it's going to hurt him that he didn't play last year, because you can be that guy like a Heinz Ward. I'm in Ross St. Brown here in Detroit. I mean, he's a Z. He plays some outside, but he's a super physical, willing.

to block and willing to do everything. And I really think if Jackson could play this year and shown more of that, because that's certainly a question. And obviously, Ohio State would have had to allow him to show more of that, too. But like, that is a question. Can you be more physical? Can you hold up out there? And if you're only going to be inside, there are terrific athletes in the NFL that can take

away a lot of what you do. So that becomes the number one sort of question with him, yes. All right. Let's have the Bejohn-Robinson conversation because I'm ready for another month and a half here of running back value discourse. that I've somehow managed to avoid for the last like two years. Andy, who are we talking about here? Like, what sort of prospect are we talking about?

Not as dynamic or, well, dynamic's the wrong word. He is as dynamic as Saquan. I don't know that he is as high end as Saquan. Yeah. In terms of everything he can do. Yeah. But he is probably the best, most complete running back prospect since Sequan.

and I like him a lot. I am the same as everybody else when it comes to running backs in the first round. I have a general rule of thumb. If you don't feel like you could play that person at slot receiver for an entire game, do not draft them in the first round. I feel like that's a good general rule to live by. Now, Bejohn passes that test. You could do it.

He could definitely do it. And he's going to be real dynamic for you. And you're going to get him. on a rookie contract. I can live with him going in the first round. Where would you take him? I agree. I would take him somewhere near the middle of the first round.

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes in the top 15. It's not going to show. I mean, I think the beat writer did their mock the other day, and he fell the 26th, and I thought that was too low for him. I think Dane had him, I don't know where Dane had him, but it was certainly higher than that. I think it's just a matter of needs and circumstance. Yeah, what you want and how comfortable you are

and how ready you are to go get it. because like Andy said, you're getting him on a rookie deal. In the minute, Bijan walks in the door, the clock ticks right now on what you have for him. So, you know, the Cowboys did it right with Zeke. They got the full 10,000 yards out of him. And now he's moving on and whatever. Like, you can do that with Bejan, but you better be ready to go when he walks in the door. No messing around for two years in waiting.

Otherwise, you're just wasting a great talent. All right. Let's say he falls to 15. Okay. The guy who drafted was drafted 15th last year was Kenyon Green, the guard from the Texans. He signed a four-year, $16 million contract. that's that's pretty much what Jamal Williams just signed

to go play for the Saints so I understand that you're paying a premium for a guy at that position where the market is depressed and you could probably find one for a lot cheaper later that is let's say 70% is good but you can't find somebody who does all the things and maybe that's the argument

so are we maybe overstating it and again because this is this similar consideration to tight end based on what you're paying the guy he's got to be a plus player immediately for you to get value about where and and i think he would be i i don't think you need to worry about bjean on that front i i think he can he can plug in right away and be dynamic for you that's not that's not going to be a problem as long as he's healthy he's going to you know you could have a travis etienne situation where he gets hurt in a preseason it was first year and you know Travis etienne was really good last year though and so you're looking at what

Travis E.TN was last season. It's like, okay. Like, you're stacking that up to other contracts. The top five is a lot. You know, the Zecchio L.A. thing is a lot. But if you're taking him in the middle of the first round, perfect. Yeah. I have no problem with that. None at all. Yeah. And Travis is the same guy. And he was talking about, like,

could you play slot for a game? Yes. So you're, yeah. And then, but Travis just in his last year at Clemson, kind of turned into that out of necessity. Right. Bejohn was that guy from the moment he set foot on campus at Texas. amazing player. Yeah, I think there are definitely considerations about where you're finding premium positions, whether you can create excess value from that draft pick.

And this is the argument that I think does have a lot of weight to it. Let's say you draft a pass rusher at 15, whoever it ends up being. Let's say Nolan Smith falls to 15. If you draft Nolan Smith and he's on that four-year $16 million deal that Kenyon Green or Bijan would be out, what you need out of Nolan Smith to make him worth that deal compared to the market isn't that much. You need him to be a rotational pass rusher where you immediately need Bejohn

to be that plus player. So there's just more risk. He needs to be your number one back immediately. And I get that. And I think that there is risk in that, but I also think that if that guy can become the sort of player that we're talking about, it's not like the Zique thing

where you're paying him like the third best running back in the league immediately if you take him in the first half of the first round. Right. And Zique was hot. I don't think Bejohn's a top 10 pick in this draft. Like that's too high. I don't know if we'll see that again. I just don't know when we would.

Sake Juan is a hard one because he was so special, but that's kind of the threshold for me, where it's like unless it's someone like him, and I agree with Andy that Sakewon is like the juiced up version of Bijan. You know, that's kind of the threshold in my mind. All right. Andy, one more round of this before we get out of here. Any position, any spot of the draft,

are there a couple of guys whose pre-draft narrative makes you feel like you're taking crazy pills one way or the other? The Richardson thing, I've been processing this for two months now. I think I'm comfortable with it now. But initially it was like, are you kidding? Like when Dane and Lance first said, oh yeah, he's a first rounder. I'm like, do what now?

Like six and six? No. What are he talking about? But I understand now. And I get that Pete, there aren't people walking around who have those tools. There aren't really any other ones that just drive me nuts this year. It hasn't been, there's no Dion Jordan in this draft. Like, that probably is the one over the years that confused me more than anybody else.

I'm like, why is the sixth best person on Oregon's defense going to go in the top five? Like, what's wrong with these people? Nick, is there anybody for you that you just like you've had trouble squaring how we've talked about them during the process with the guy that you watched last season? No, not. I mean, Richardson is the is the one that I end up getting in the most arguments about, I feel like. But like in general, the general topic of like how people view tight ends is still the one that is sort of drives me nuts. Because it's like you just, there's a lot of people that will just run their head right into what. Don't do it ever. I don't want to hear it no matter what. And it's like it's such a nuanced conversation.

And it's such a good one. And this is the perfect year to have it. You get the guy who says, well, George Kittle and Travis Kelsey weren't very high draft picks. Okay. But look at what they do for their team. So why would you not want to spend draft capital to possibly get that? And if we redrafted, they would be like the fifth pick in the draft or whatever.

It would be whatever draft they were in. So like that's just, yeah, I mean, I think that that one this year more than ever. It's been that way for several years. But this year more than ever really illustrates it that people need to catch up on that. Because it's going to keep coming. It's not going to stop. I think that there's more and more of this. Like Andy's point about the power forwards, I hadn't thought about that,

but that might be a huge factor because we are seeing more high school players that are those like freaky guys that used to be, well, he's an edge or he'll be a whatever on the defensive line. Now he plays tight end. And that's been encouraging to see. All right. Well, I'm excited for five or six more knock down, drag out fights about positional value over the next month or so. It's going to be great.

gentlemen, thank you very much for humoring me and for letting me get my toes in the water here about this subject because I love the draft. I just come to it a little bit late. So this is a great way to kick it off. Well, we are the two idiots that you needed for this idiot's guide. So that's, I appreciate you thinking of us. Of course.

I absolutely loved it. If you're looking for more idiots, we are going to be back tomorrow doing the quarterbacks. Me and Nate Tice, one of my favorite shows that we do every single year, A little bit more teeth to it this year than last year. I'm going to say a little bit more to this discussion, but I'm a couple guys in. I want to go back and listen to last year's episode.

Is it basically you going, hey, Nate, this year's quarterback, so Nate going, eh. Yeah. That's pretty much it. I'll talk to you tomorrow. That's pretty much it. I mean, he liked Desmond Ritter. And so we'll see what happens with Desmond Ritter in Atlanta this year. But that's, Nate's favorite guy in that group is Desmond Ritter.

And so I think that we're going to have a little bit more enthusiasm this year, a lot to dig into. So please come back and check that out. If you want a different version of that conversation, please go listen to the football GM with Mike and Randy from last week. Randy listed his top five guys. That actually has some authority to it. Ours does not whatsoever. As a human being who used to draft people. Yes. But you know what? We're going to take a stab at it anyway because that's what we do over here. So please come back and check that out. Andy will be back on Wednesday with more prospects to pros with Dean Bruegler and Lance Surline. So please be on the lookout. for that.

And then I'll be back tomorrow with Nate. In the meantime, if you want to, just leave us a review where you listen to podcasts. Like, if you like the show and you've listened to it for like two and a half years, just go on Apple Podcasts and let us know. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. We're going to be doing a lot more video stuff associated with the draft. Nick is on our wonderful team now as we're chipping away at this kind of stuff. So if you have not subscribed, now is the time to do that.

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We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show. Thank you.