The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Idiot's Guide to the 2024 NFL Draft

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

If your 2024 NFL Draft knowledge is lacking, this is the episode for you. Dane Brugler and Nate Tice join Robert Mays to discuss the most important things you need to know about this year’s prospects. They talk about the positions of strength and weakness, their favorite player to watch, the QBs and much more.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Very excited about today's show. We're kind of kicking off our draft coverage here in earnest on the Athletic Football Show. And by doing that, we're going to introduce the format that we're going to have every single Thursday, essentially me globbing on to the Prospects to Pros' to Pro's show that you guys have been listening to for the last six months. I'm the one that's weaseling my way in here.

Joining the two guys who have done a fantastic job on that show. First and foremost, my good friend, Nate Tyson, how you doing, buddy? I love this. I'm back into the kind of finisher scoreer role as opposed to, you know, having, you know, passing. Okay, I got to set up Dane here, sit up Dane here. Okay, sit in the corner, sit in the corner, okay, yeah, good job, Dane. So this is a lot more comfortable to see Robert going back into here. And it's just like, I just get to spout these tangents.

But we could be with Dane, actually. Well, funny, you should mention that because the other person joining us today and joining us every week in the run up to the draft. It is our draft expert at the athletic. Dan Bruegler. Dane, very good. To be back on a show with you, my friend. I'm really looking forward to this. This is going to be fun.

We've got just over a month left, which is crazy. And just, you know, peek behind the curtain. This is kind of the worst two-week stretch of my entire year, the final two weeks before the draft guide. So, like, most of the Hayes in the barn at this point, but it's all about the injury info is coming in. Staying on top of the pro days, there's going to be pro-day information for,

over 1,500 players in the draft guide. So staying on top of all of those, which that's what the month of March is all about, is the pro days and all those times. So, you know, getting those times from teams, not going by what the school says or media, anything like that. So recording this pod will be a nice change up from watching Division 2 tape with Bounce House castles,

blocking the camera and all that. So this will be fun. It was funny. Somebody on Twitter yesterday was just like, why would you not have Dane on the show six weeks before the because you weren't on last week. And I was like, maybe you should talk to Dane about whether or not he actually didn't want to be on the show last week. He's got 10 million things to do.

Oh, man. Yeah. No, it, trust me. I, I listened to you guys and I'm like, man, I should be on this. Why? But it's, yeah, there's only so many minutes and hours in the day. It's just, but yeah, we're close. Well, draft guide almost be done and then it'll be, you know, we can really get cranking.

And it's like you're single, too. You're a bachelor, you know, all that too. It's not like you have four kids. Yeah, right, exactly. It's not like you got dance tonight, indoor soccer, all that's good stuff. And you transition usually the showtime into meeting them at the bus, right? So it's always perfect, like the recording time transitions, right? You're a pro.

You get it. No wasted time. None. None. It's just boom, boom, boom. Former athlete, former player going from meeting to meeting. I totally get it. This is a very familiar stretch in the calendar for me.

You finishing up the draft guide and us kicking off our draft coverage here on the athletic football show. And the way that we've done that pretty much every year since 2021, I remember the first time we did this was my kit from my kitchen table and my old apartment. But in those three years, not a lot has changed. You guys are plugged into the draft discourse and happen for a very long time. I am not. I've been paying attention to free agency, combine stuff, going to owners meetings later this weekend. So this is my chance to ask some very dumb questions from people who know a lot more about

this draft class than I do. So this is what we're doing today. We're doing the Idiot's Guide to the 2024 NFL draft. This is now our fourth one day, which is kind of hard to imagine at this point. Yeah, it is. And it's funny how these things evolve, just are the draft conversation

and how every draft has its own identity. And this one is certainly unique with the strengths of what we have at the top, the quarterbacks. I mean, it's each little, it's almost like your kids. They're each a little bit different. They have their own personalities.

And yeah, this year's no different. So let's start with some of that big picture stuff. Nate, How would you compare this class just on a very, very zoomed out level to previous draft classes that we've seen maybe over the last four or five, six years? Is this the savior of offense class? That's what this class really feels like. It feels like as the NFL truly hit a Nader in offense last year and as far as production, efficiency explosion.

Now we have, I mean, I was just telling Dane this, I just did a big board for Yahoo. My top 13 guys in this draft on this big board were offensive players. offensive tackle, receiver, and quarterback. And I think that is, those are premium positions of offense. Oh, and one tie then. But those are premium positions of offense. Those are pass catchers. That is the signal callers, the court true, true quarterback and offense alignment.

So these are the guys, these are the positions that teams are always trying to find. And this is where there's depth at those positions, you know, depends on how you consider the depth. But there is at the turn around the late first round, the second round as well. But it's a very offensive heavy draft, especially at those spots. running back tight in there are a different story. And then on defense, there are some holes, there are some gaps, but there are some interesting players more in the middle, later tiers of the first round, the second round. And so that is how this class, kind of the flavor of this class has kind of unfolded

the last couple months. There were some offensive linemen drafted fairly early on last year, but last year famously, we didn't get our first wide receiver until 21. It's just a different sort of flavor than the one that this class seemingly has. Beyond just the flavor of the players, Dan, and the positions, what sort of quality are we talking about here. You know, I remember in the pre-draft discourse, there's always a lot of, well, there are this many first-round grades with this year's class. In terms of overall quality, how do you think the 20-24 group compares to recent ones? Obviously, yeah, the number of first-round grades

changes team-to-team, and I think it's a really good class. Probably around 20 true first-round grades, which is more than, I think, usual. But I do always struggle with the question like this, because it's, you know, a certain player is a first rounder for one team and not for another. You know, obviously there's probably a dozen guys that are going to be consensus first rounders, no matter to the scheme or the team that you talk to, but a player like a Marius Mims from Georgia, offensive tackle, who in my opinion is the most fascinating player in the draft because there are some teams who, if they focus just on the traits, oh, this is an easy top 20 player. Other teams that value body of work and are looking for someone that maybe can step in right away,

they're not going to have a first round grade on a guy like MIMS. So the number of first rounders will obviously be different from team to team, but this is a really good class to be drafting top 10, top 12, and we can't say that every year. It's a good mix of the blue chippers, but then also guys that maybe you don't love, but you feel really, really good about and would have no problem drafting them in the first round.

So a really good year to have a first round pick, especially in that top 20 range. Nate, when you've done your mock drafts, Is there a pick somewhere in the 20s or maybe a little bit later in the first round where you feel yourself getting less excited where you think there is a little bit of a cliff or a fall off with the talent? Yeah. And it's right around there, the early 20s maybe, like 22, 23, 24, right before we did kind of our show, you know, going over, you know, 32 through 26 or 24 or whatever it was. But the, that is where the cliff. And that's actually kind of traditional.

Once you hit the 20s, you know, usually teams break it down with guys are 20 to 40 type grade, a late first, early second time. type guy. So that is kind of, uh, that's kind of what I see when I do these mocks. I would agree with Dane. I have 17 guys as I was kind of round down. So if I'm like, is he a, is he a blue chipper? Is he a green chipper? Is he is he very good? Is he good? I round down. So I'll say, oh, he's good as opposed to very good. But I have 17 guys as legit first round graded guys, which to me is pretty high. Um, sometimes you get into, I think Dan would agree 15 to 20 is generally the landing spot. But 17 is pretty good. And I would even, I could bump that up to 19 if I were getting kind of frisky.

But I just want to kind of go off of what Dan's saying, this is a rich class. And again, it's mostly offense, but there are some defensive guys too. But I think just, yeah, I think when you just look at this, that once you get to that 20 spot, 22 spot maybe, maybe some guys are bump up as those blue chippers as well, that is where I see a little bit of drop off and maybe different types of players come up. Houston Texans picking 23rd got out of there. So that might tell you kind of exactly what they were thinking. Like we feel good about the guy we're getting at 23 as we are, you know, someone in the early second round.

So I think that right around that early 20s that we're talking about makes sense. That's such a great point. We talked about the offense being the strength of this draft. But if we dig a little bit deeper, which positions do you feel are the most stacked in this class day and compared to previous ones? Got to start with the offensive line, right? I mean, it's hard to quantify maybe how this stacks up with other offensive line classes. but it's got to be in the conversation of one of the better ones we've seen the last decade. And it's refreshing because it's lived up to expectations.

Back in the summer, when I was doing my initial top 50, I had eight offensive tackles make the top 50. And for the most part, those guys have not only lived up to it, they've helped themselves. You push them up. It feels like there's eight guys that are like at the top 30 now. Absolutely. And I think you think of that 2020 class, right, with a we had six tackles in that first round, Andrew Thomas, Tristan Worf's, that group.

This chance, we might have six in the top 25, easy. And so, and the other thing with this offensive line class, because I'm going to group the whole offensive line together, yes, the offensive tackles, it's a top-heavy group. But I think what makes this offensive line group really special is the guard and center depth. The tackles, it's a top-heavy position. The position kind of drops off a cliff, maybe. after the top 40 or so. On the interior, those positions,

they're going to stretch. So when we look back, you know, three years from now, I think easily we'll find double-digit NFL starters on the interior coming out of this class. Well, your guy, Christian Haynes, Nate. I mean, we're talking about the guard depth here. It seems like you like a lot of these guys even more so than some of the other people

that are stacking them up right now. Yes. That's the best part in Dane touched on it is that there's a lot of high-end talent, but there's a lot of interesting talent. There's more project types too that usually sneak up, and we talked about this Robert the other day,

those guys sometimes would sneak up into the top 20 in a normal draft. And now those guys might get bumped down 25, 28, 31. I would say a Jordan Morgan would be a good one, a Kingsley Suamata Tia. I'm getting to, Tyler Guyton.

Actually, those three. Those are the three I always think of. From Arizona. Arizona. And then you got BYU. for Suea Matadilla, and then you got Guyton from Oklahoma. And all three of those guys have traits that you want. And Morgan has positional flexibility as far as guard tackle, potentially.

And the other two have legit left tackle upside, starting left tackle upside, which is what you want. Again, those guys, I've seen worse talents bumped up way high in draft than these guys. And these guys are currently getting slotted in 20s and 30s. And I just think that's what speaks to the depth. And also what Dana was saying, too, is that there's a lot of interesting. guys, but there's three centers. There's two legit kind of center types that could be in the first round. And then the third, Zach Frazier, that could probably maybe sneak in there, but more

of an early second round type. So there is just, yeah, and then you have versatile guys. You have Troy Fontenu who could play potentially all five spots, Graham Barton, who could play all five spots. You have guys like swing, garden tackle. It's just any flavor you want in this class, the high end tackles, the versatile guys, the interior guys that you got every type of flavor, the projects. That's why this class is so cool.

at a position that's so hard to find talent. Dan, you do such a good job of being able to contextualize this stuff over time, just because you're doing this in-depth every single year. Do you think this means anything, the fact that we have eight tackles that could go in the first round? Or do you see this as more of a blip than anything indicative of a larger trend? I really do think it is just kind of one of those years. I don't know that there's any science behind why this year there's a spike.

Obviously, all 32 teams need offensive line help. and that's something that pushes names up, but it doesn't feel like names are being artificially pumped up in this group. It feels like they're legitimately top 32 players and guys we should be talking about in the first round. So I don't know that there is as much any theories behind it as it is just one of those classes that a really good class of offensive linemen. Anton Harrison feels like he was one of those guys on the border last year, right?

Like maybe he gets pushed up a little bit into the end of the first round because that cliff is coming and teams have a new. need, but you don't think that there's going to be that many guys shoved a little bit higher up than they should be this year. It's like a Patrick Paul from Houston. Say he goes 32. You know, like I think that'd be a little bit early for him. And it's because he's long. It's, you know, he's got a lot to work with, but he's not ready to play tomorrow. And it's a little bit of a project. But talking about that cliff, once those guys start coming off the board, if we see that run and a team starts to worry about, okay, it's,

know, where are options to tackle in second, third round? You know, you could at least understand why, okay, maybe he's not our top-ranked player on the board, but we have a second round grade on them and it's not a huge stretch for us. So, yeah, we'll take him on 32. That would feel a little bit like, okay, we're pushing it. But the rest of these guys, no, I think you can make the argument why they belong as top 25 players in this class, both the tackles and then also the interior guys. Graham Barton, I mean, if he ends up going.

you know, top 25, you understand why. It might not be the flashiest player, but the versatility that he offers, he's just a really good player. Fiatanu from Washington, tackle, guard, I don't care. Wherever you like him, he's one of the top 20 players in this draft.

You cannot name me 20 better players than him. So even with these guys, it's the position they play, gives them that little bit of a bump, but it feels like their play, what they do put on tape, that gets them this high in the rankings more than anything else. Nate,

do you have a favorite guy among this group? And if you want to, you can differentiate between the guys who are like definitive top 12 talents and maybe some of the more projecty guys if you want to draw that line. Oh, man. I mean, I feel like I'm stealing some of Dane's Thunder. No,

I'll go a different. Actually, this is legit hard for me because there's so many good players. Like, this is hard. These are all legit guys that I really like. I, because of Marius Mims,

I don't want to steal that from you, Dane. So I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with, correct my name pronunciation on him. It's not font new. It's, God, dang it. Faotanu. Oh, my God. All right. So, wow, that's great.

All right, Troy Fautanu. Him, the guy whose name, I don't even know how to say apparently this entire time, who I've been singing his praises for like six months now. He probably, I've said it wrong too. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, that I go off you, man. It's like, if I say it and you confirm, I'm like, all right, we're good.

We're good. This is the beast. We're good. But no, I have to go with him. Him and Barton, really, because of the five positional versatility, I could see with him, he's a guy at first. I was like, you're not going to be able to stay at tackle. I love your movement.

I love all this. He has long arms. He is very long arms, 34 and a half, I believe. And he's not all six, four. He's just a shade under, but his movement ability, his technician ability or his ability to be a technician, I just love it. Like, he translates so easily to me in my mind. That's like, could he stay at left tackle?

I don't know. I could see him at right tackle. I could just, but him as a guard and even just him as a center. It's just like easy to project him as like, oh yeah, you're going to be a good player no matter what. And just his hand usage, his footwork,

his eyes are all very advanced. So he's a guy that's like a lot of coaches, I think are going to like him. I personally just really like him because of all that technique and stuff. You have Fatano at 10 on your big board that came out today, Nate on Yahoo, which is very high.

That compares to 17th for Fatano with Dane. You have Graham Barton at 12th from Duke on yours. Nate, and he's a little bit further down for you, Dane, but I know that you also like him and consider him just like a definitive first-round player. No doubt. And I haven't updated my ranking since before the Combine. So I'm probably even a little bit higher than what I,

just seeing these guys in person at the Combine really helps the movement skills. Just in comparison purposes, one after the other, if the other, it's really helpful just to see how explosive they are, the body control, all of that. But yeah, all of these guys, I mean, it's a hard. it's a hard question to just say one name because there's so many Marius Mims going back to the summer. That's why I'm making you do it. I did four honorable mentions before I got to mine because I just want to make sure it's like, hey, I like all these guys, just making sure we're checking these boxes.

Right, right. Going back to the summer, texting with Nate about these tackles and I remember texting him and saying, hey, I got a guy. And like this guy is the freakiest of the freaks. check out the Ohio State tape, Marius Mims, Georgia, and there's not many guys like this. Now, again, eight career starts, some questionable stuff on the board work. You just worry about, okay, the fundamentals, are they going to be there for him to get on the field, how quickly, all of that. But he just moves differently. And I've never seen a guy, 340 pounds carry it that well.

Never seen it before. It is crazy how he is built. and everything's been so easy for him that once he gets to the NFL, that's not going to be the case, obviously, and so how does he adjust? That's a big kind of question mark with his evaluation.

So this is, let me pull the Idiot's Guide thing here, and let me be the idiot for a second. Why only eight starts? Like, what kept him off the field for this song? I know Georgia's had some guys, Broger Jones comes through there. Is it injuries? Is it a maturity thing?

Like, why is it only eight? I mean, both the guys, both tackles in front of him got drafted last year. And so once, and he was a former five-star guy, came in with a ton of pedigree. He actually took a visit to Florida State last offseason thinking about transferring because he wanted to get on the field. But he got on the field against Ohio State in the playoff game. That was his first career start because he or Warren McClendon, the right tackle got hurt.

So he goes out there, plays exceptionally well. He takes the best player on the field. He's well in the national title game. Yeah, right, exactly. And then this year stays at right tackle, starts. then he got hurt, had an ankle injury. And so that was really the main reason why it's only eight starts. But again, it's not the body of work you want.

But still, that type of talent, you just have to figure out, okay, how far behind is he just in terms of processing, in terms of understanding everything we need him to know to play tackle, to at least be on the field and not hurt us. So the answer to that question is going to be different for every team. I do think we also, we have to mention Joe Walt here because he is a guy that, Nate, We were on the same page with him in the summer. We liked him, didn't love him. We saw a guy that was probably a first round pick, but there were some question marks there. Had the same grade on Barton as I did on Alt going into the fall. That's legit.

And he is a guy that is a good example of someone that separated himself throughout the season. You know, when we... What did that for you? Pop. I think it goes back to... So the best offensive lineman, when you scout the position, the best... offensive linemen are able to reset, quickly get back to the strengths of their bodies. And to me, that's what he was able to do consistently this year, that he wasn't always able

to do in the past. So that's what he does best, really. It's his ability to recover, get back to his power, and not lose balance. And I think for him, it's going back to his background. He grew up as a quarterback. His dad was a left tackle in the NFL in the early 90s, but he wanted his son to be an athlete. So he played quarterback. most of his life. In high school, he was a linebacker, then a defensive end, then he was a tight end. It wasn't until a senior year that he got some looks at tackle and then goes to Notre Dame. And so that was only four years ago, that he got his first real looks as an offensive tackle. So I guess it's not as surprised to see him take these jumps, but the improvements

he made year over year, really impressive. And that gives you optimism moving forward that he's not done. He's very good at in the run game. There's some things in the in Pass Pro where he'll extend a little bit too far, reach a little bit too far, his anchor, because he is so tall, well, there's some cracks in his anchor, but this is a guy that figures out a way. Again, finding his balance, being able to recover, it's something that

a lot of these tackles can't do. And Joe, all we're talking about here, the testing was obviously very good, that of a former tight end and linebacker and position player. He ran a 505 in the 40th at 321, in an 88th percentile broad jump. He's over 6'8. Yeah, 6.8 and change, 6.8 and a half. somebody looked it up on Twitter

because we mentioned it, but his closest physical and testing comparisons is Jonathan Ogden. So, that's what we're talking about. He heard of them. That's pretty good. Dan and I texted this summer,

and I was like, hey, I'm seeing an old get bumped up. And I really like Barton. That's like my other, I want to make sure we get that out here. Who's a guy that his tackle tape is way bare that I even gave him credit for and that I rewatched him.

And also his length is like another guy, but I want to make sure say Barton's really good, too, guys. but watching all, it's like, okay, he doesn't really have a lot of pop with his hands. He doesn't really strike guys and move guys for especially a guy that big. So I was kind of leaving me want more. And this is also one of the things where I get out ahead of myself.

I'm like, oh, yeah, he's 20. Oh, yeah, he's just learning to, he's a great dane that's just learning his body right now. And this season, you see it more. It wasn't all consistent. It wasn't like he's a road grader, but you saw the tight hands. You saw the movement. And then you see him pass protection. The recover ability is exactly.

what it is why I like him and I think everybody likes him because he's such a good athlete because he's so long. Even in the run game, I was watching the film breakdown that he did, watching his own tape with Brandon Thorne on his substack, which I would highly recommend people do. And his ability to stick on guys in the run game when he was slipping off or they'd slip off him. You just see that like flexibility manifested a lot of different areas of his game. The number one thing I've ever learned from my dad and a lot of line coaches is a good athlete, offenseal line, yes, the testing and all that, but it's are they on the ground in the run game? Are they finishing and falling over themselves because the guy jumps out of the way?

Are they like tripping over themselves? Are they unable to stay? Because you see good athletes like a Trevor Penning who's all, he tested like crazy, but then on the field, he's not, he doesn't test or play to that testing. And but there's not a little control that you want. Yes, not all. Not all is sticky. He stays on it.

The guy tries to throw him off. He can keep his feet. Like that's real athleticism at the position he has it. It's rare. It really is. for that size, the recovery skills, the redirect, and there's a discipline to what he's doing too. It's

very natural to him, but you can tell how much he works at it. Because he's not, because he is fundamentally sound, but he also has the physical traits, because he can sink. He can use every inch of his long arms to make him go to work. So, yeah, there's just a lot. You can understand

why Joe Walt's the clear favor to be that first tackle drafted. I think we're talking about positional strength. Receiver is also going to be in there, but we're going to get to that in a little bit. Let's get to the position you think are weakest, Dane. Is there a spot where if you're looking at a player at that position, you're probably going to be a little bit disappointed in the first round? In the first round, there's no doubt.

I think you look at linebacker. There's some linebackers in this class that I like, but not until the second round, not until in the third round. Overall, it's just not a great group. It's kind of out last year was too, right? It's been a trend, I think, you know, last few years. And really, I think the positions we're going to mention for this category it's kind of been a trend with safety,

with kind of the nose tackle types, with linebackers. It's not been a strong group for those guys the last few years. And this year is not any different. Now, again, there are some quality players, but not until you get to back half over the top 50 into the third round.

That's where, and it would be interesting if some of those guys get pushed up, maybe, just based off of need. And, you know, you really have your target, you're targeting one of these guys, you don't want to miss them, so you take them a little bit earlier than you should. I'm sure that'll happen with some of these guys.

But yeah, in the first round, not a great year to, if you want those three positions, a nose tackle, linebacker safety. Linebacker and safety, we've talked a lot about this at Nate, where it's hard to evaluate those players in college. It's hard to know what traits are going to translate. So waiting a little bit and having the league figured out for you has been something a lot of teams have done using free agency at linebacker and safety. So do we think that these guys getting pushed into the second and third round is just a product of talent?

Or do you also think this is a downstream effect from how the league is viewing these sorts of players? I think both in a way. I think the linebacker one's so hard. I like your phrase there. Let the league figure it out for you. I think linebackers are the number one for that right now because there's some of these guys are converted safeties. 226 pounds, 232. Can they last three, four years?

Oh, he did. As previous stop, all right, now we can sign him a free agency. Now we're good. Okay, but we didn't we didn't check out and wait and figure it out. I think it's some of that with the safety is definitely, I see that where teams are gone, we can just find this guy in the third round, even if he is good or this guy in the second round. We have him comparable.

Why invest such a rich pick? Callow Hamilton is such a different animal than these other safeties. I think that's why the one guy that's kind of like the exception to this. So I think there is some deflation, but I also just want to say, talking about both sides of my belts, I'm saying that there hasn't been the talent worth these types of picks. the work. And I wonder how those are connected. I wonder if guys are being followed away from that.

It's worth a larger conversation, but I think that we are starting to notice a trend in that direction. The irony to me is how teams want to play defense right now with lighter boxes, and they need these positions. They need defensive tackles, linebackers and safeties to fill the box. And now there's not a talent injection. You know, it's a weird thing going on right now. And maybe it's because once they get to the NFL, okay, this guy can't play safety,

this converted corner, and this guy's best as a dime. backer and we keep him in the body, yada, yada, yada. But as far as injection of town into the league, it hasn't correlated with what's going on scheme-wise as far as what teams want to use. It's kind of a funny dichotomy. We're assuming out a little bit further than we need to here, but I think that if you look at where the best players at these positions are coming from, I can't remember who it was.

Somebody from PFF, I think it was Arjun posted this week about where the top paid defensive tackles in the league come from. And almost every single one of them, to a man, was a first round pick. almost every single one. The only two exceptions were Justin Matabeeke and maybe like one more guy. Everyone else was a first round pick. Well, let's apply that same thinking

to linebacker and safety. At one point, Fred Warner reset the market and Justin Simmons reset the market. Where were those guys drafted? They were third round picks. So I think that inevitably this stuff is going to start influencing the way that we talk about these positions,

think about these positions, and where guys look for these positions. Quincy Williams. Yeah. All that stuff. I mean, it just feels like those guys are going to be available. Dan, if you have a bunch of picks in that second and third round range,

maybe those spots that aren't super great at the top of this draft, but if you're Arizona or Washington, both of whom have three third round picks, which positions do you think are worth mining in the back cap of the top 100 in this class? I mean, I think this is when we have the running back conversation. Because I doubt we have a running back draft of top 50 this year, and that's only happened one time ever in the history. of the NFL draft. So it's pretty rare.

Now, we'll see. Maybe one of these guys sneaks up there for a team that really wants to get their guy. But between, let's just say, the start of the third round and the end of the fourth round, there's like 10 backs

that I think are all worthy of that spot. So even though it's not a great running back class in terms of high-end talent, there's no Bijan Robinson, there's no Jemir Gibbs, I like a lot of these guys. And I'm excited to see how early they come off the board.

I think the Cowboys, with that late second round pick. It makes a lot of sense. Jonathan Brooks from Texas, even coming off the ACL. Love that fit. But how early does Jim Harbaugh take Blake Corum? Where does Trey Benson go?

Braylen Allen, Wisconsin, Jalen Wright, Tennessee, Marshawn Lloyd, USC, Bucky Irving, Oregon. And all these guys are different with what they offer. Bucky Irving is very different than what Braylon Allen offers. So the roles will be a little bit different. Two other names that I want to throw out there, some of my favorite mid-round players,

Isaac Garendo from Louisville and Tyrone Tracy from Purdue. These are two of my favorite mid-round players overall, but both running backs, both kind of in that Tony Pollard range in the fourth round, where I think they're going to end up being steals for whoever drafts them in that range. But again, I think, you know, this question, I think it really hinges on the runs, too, right? because last year we talked about tight end flying off the board in day two, and that's what happened. And then Leporta was the 34th pick when we thought he might go in the 60s somewhere. And then what happens?

Luke Schoonmaker goes in the second round. Brenton Strange goes in the second round. And it's like, okay, I mean, didn't necessarily see that. But, you know, sometimes where a team starts to run accelerates how these guys come off the board. So running back will be interesting this year. The funniest one's always the second tier quarterback or the third tier quarterback run. That's always my favorite. What was that?

The round three quarterback. Wasn't it Kyle Trask? And then like two of them were drafted almost immediately after Davis, Davis Mills. Yes. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.

I was thinking of was I always love those runs because it happens every draft. Speaking of quarterbacks, let's shift our focus here to the quarterbacks. Spoiler alert. You want to do yours? Do you want to do a different one? I was going to say the runnerback one is interesting because I came, I've had the same conclusion as Dane. It's like I stuck one into my top 50, Trey Benson, because,

I am comfortable with his medicals. That's me with no inside information. That's just me going, I like the guy on film. He doesn't look like he has medicals. Yeah, he tested well. This is out. This is out process. Dane, can you confirm that's how most NFL teams do it?

I don't know. He looks like he's healthy. I'm updating my draft guide right now. Nate's stamp of approval on the knee. Nate's medicals. Nate's medicals. It passes it. Yes.

I am. Hi, Dr. Nick. Let's shift to the quarterbacks here. Spoiler alert, in this space next week, we're doing our quarterback deep dive. So we're not going to go super deep in this conversation right now because we're going to spend a ton of time on it a week from now. But as you're looking at this quarterback class, how does this compare to years pass? And we'll start with Williams and May. I'm just curious, when you look at them, they're not only expected to go in the top three, but they're at the top of big boards.

You have them one and two, I believe, on yours. Dane, I think you have Drake May and your top four. So this is not a situation where these guys are getting pushed up. they truly might be some of the best players in the draft. So, Nate, when you compare these guys to other number one picks from the past five to 10 years, what sort of prospects are we talking about here with Williams and May? We talk about blue chips and talk about all of that. I have, and this is from old grading, I consider these two guys purple chips,

which is as high as great as you basically get. It's not saying there's no perfect prospect, but basically these are high of, I'm going to grade a quarterback. I think Caleb Williams and Drake May are two. of the top three or four guys I've ever graded as prospects going into the NFL, Trevor Lawrence. And then I did have a high, how do they compare to your guys last year? See, I had Stroud and Aunt Richardson as kind of just outside my baby top five, because I would say the rest of my top five was Fields and Burrow in some way, shape, or form since 2014. I wasn't that high on golf. I wasn't that high on Wentz. I wasn't that high on James. I wasn't that high on Marcus Mariotta. So like, we've even been going back to those kind of classes. Wasn't as high on those guys or any of these recent guys. which actually kind of is reflected to how quarterbacks are right now. There was like a dead period

for like several years before we got to that 2017 group. I also, but I also had Darnold High. So trust me. So that's the thing. I had, so I had Stroud and Richardson, I would say if I were kind of like thinking on it,

probably in that six, seven, eight range as guys I've watched over the last 10 years. I was super high on both, but not to this level. I think these guys are both cleaner in a weirdest way. Strout's tape was pretty clean, but just seeing the ability of Caleb, what he can do in structure, his accuracy, which I'll put as an excellent level

accuracy, his, when the pocket is clean and he's actually able to operate on time, which that offense did not allow him to do a lot of times. There's not a lot of that. I just started this week. There's not a lot of that happening. It went from, I was so high on him, watched him during the season, was starting to get a little lower arm, never wavered, but it was kind of, well, then fully wavered, I should say, but I was like, ah, then you watch him all 22, and you just see him operating from the pocket

and seeing all this. He is fantastic on top of all the, creation stuff you can do, and he has good arm strength, even very good. But then, okay, so he already shows more creation than Stroud ever did. And I think he's just as accurate as Stroud was. I think that's why when you're talking about clean, that, that's a, it's a tough word to pin down, but I think projectable in a way, right? And so watching Caleb Williams have to operate in some of the situations he's had to, even if it's a messy thing that you're evaluating, it makes the projection a little cleaner, if that makes sense. And you talk to any evaluator. It's all about

what translates. I think a lot of people will watch 40, I got through 40 passes and to go, well, I got to watch all 40. I'd say 18 of those are actually like translatable to the NFL. I'm just making up numbers. But that's what you have to do with Caleb. There's much more translatable stuff than I thought going in. I thought it was going to be more playground football, him running around making plays, which you could see traits. But then when you got to see him, work from the pocket, one, two, three, ball out, one, two, three, ball out, one, two, three, hitch ball out. It was like, oh, shoot, you're a machine. And I didn't, I underrated that even going in, even after you're evaluating last year. But, but,

But, okay, that's Williams. May, I actually prefer, he's my 1A to the one beat of Williams. But these guys, again, I just said all that about Williams. May, it's worked from the pocket. I don't want to get ahead of myself because these are whole shows we want to do. But he is a true guy that I think has all the traits on top of the head, you know, the mental side. And the stuff that he's already shown and the stuff that can project. That's what these two to me are MVP type upside. You know, again, I'm not saying they're one, when in year one, when in year two, one and year three, but saying that that's the ceiling that these two have.

And I probably only had four or five guys legit graded like that over 10 years. And I mean, like you try to be hard on quarterbacks. So that's what I'm trying to just say. It's like, these two are good. They're very, very good prospects. How do they stack up for you, Dan, compared to guys in recent years? The best quarterback I've evaluated personally was Joe Burrow. That goes, you know, back 10, 12 years.

That's the top guy. But I would say these guys are probably both in my top six somewhere. They're pretty high. And Caleb's my one. I just think he has rare football awareness. What he's done the last few years is just, it's so impressive. Being able to create, also be able to play in structure. I mean, I'm going to repeat a lot of things that Nate said.

That's why I don't want to do too much. No, I know. We'll save it. And, you know, May, I like a lot. Some of the stuff down the stretch last year concerned me. I mean, he had the few, among these, all these top six quarterbacks, he had the fewest number of second half touchdowns this year, and the most second half interceptions this year.

Now, part of that is him feeling like he had to put the superhero cape on, and this is true for Caleb, too. They were forced to be like, okay, I've got to make something happen because I'm not getting a lot of help here. So, yeah, I mean, you watch some of the NC State tape, you watch the Clemson tape. His receivers are just given up on routes. His offensive line, just not good enough.

And so it was something where you have to divorce him from the situation, evaluate him independently of everything going on around him. And that's not easy to do. It's really tough. That's why quarterback will always be the toughest position to evaluate. But yeah, both these guys are very high up there for me, just in terms of recent quarterbacks that have come out. I'm about four games into Caleb Williams.

I am both exhilarated and terrified. Did you do the Notre Dame tape yet? I did not do the Notre Dame tape yet. I haven't seen enough stuff in structure to be able to confidently say what you guys just did. You guys have watched much more than me. So for me, there are moments where he'll pass something up and then do something extraordinary. And I'm like, well, what am I supposed to do with that? There's a play against Oregon where there's a blitz coming off the left side.

He passes up the hot, rolls out to his right, and then throws the ball back across his body for a first down. Well, you did the wrong thing objectively. But what you just did, three people on the planet can do. So I don't know how to square this. And that was why watching on a TV copy during the season, I was kind of just going, man, because I saw the same thing right there, just going like, man, you passed up that slant. Sweet throw, but you passed up the easy one. It was one when I, again, I watched on film, those show up, but the instructor stuff showed up more than I, again, that it was like, again, that's why you got to let it wash all over you.

After you watch four or five, six games. And then you're like, okay, I see when you get to that. The Cal game was the game that I was like, this, you're a dude. The Cal defenses are good defense to watch quarterbacks go against because of stuff they do. kind of like in the Big Ten, watching a quarterback go against Northwestern. They kind of just make you work. They make you work for it. And watching him go against Cal, it was when I saw him beat two man a couple

times with hero throws, that one, I talk about translatable plays from structure, off one hitch, just like real, no fat in his footwork. That's where the Drew Brees stuff came from for me, which was kind of a bit, but also I just wanted to emphasize, this dude is legit, accurate, legit high-end accuracy that you strive for for these guys. So that's why all that brief stuff came into. We'll let that conversation breathe a little bit next week. Let's get to the guys maybe a step down from here, Dan.

I wanted to ask you about Jaden Daniels and J.J. McCarthy. There's been a lot of buzz this week, and you were ahead of this, as you always are, that quarterbacks very realistically could go in the top four, that J.J. McCarthy could be pushed up that far. How much of that, in your opinion, is just desperation for answers of the position, and how much of that do you think is justified based on what sort of prospects Daniels and McCarthy are respectively. I think it's justified from the perspective that all quarterbacks in the first round

have an added tax. Unless you have the top pick, number one overall pick, you're probably drafting a guy a little bit earlier than they should. Boy, isn't it nice. I mean, yeah, exactly. Any wonder why they're drafting a quarterback number one? You look at, okay, say J.J. McCarthy. Like, he's a much better prospect than Mack Jones, who was drafted 15th overall a couple

years ago. And, you know, I get some of the discord with McCarthy because, again, he's, and McCarthy, I get a lot of, well, I'm hesitant about the guys that are, that rise between the end of the season and now. McCarthy was 19 overall in my August top 50. He has been, teams have been buzzing about him for a while now. And you can understand why. With the physical profile, the intangibles, no, they don't put the game on his back and say, hey, go win it for us. But that doesn't mean that. and he can't do it if his role expands. And so McCarthy is tricky. There's no doubt.

With Jaden Daniels, he's so interesting because he's a fifth-year guy. We have to keep that in context. Fifth year starting compared to Drake May, two-year starter, Caleb Williams, three-year starter. Jane Daniels has seen a lot. If he was drafted, if you went to the draft after his third year, he would have been drafted in a six-round and who knows where he is right now. So we have to keep that all in the context. With Daniels, though, what he did this past year,

not going to take anything away from him. He was outstanding. I'm a big believer in explosive plays. He had more explosive plays this season than any other quarterback in history. That's partly true, partly made up, because I don't know how, we can only go back so many years.

But I don't think anyone's made more explosive plays than he has. On record, yeah. There you go. I will say, it seems like having Malik neighbors and Brian Thomas might help those numbers. It does. What I was about to say?

Having an offensive line that gave him time, and having two first two top 20 receivers and then the other two receivers will be drafted next year. I like the third guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speedster. If, and I always bring this up, if you swapped Drake May and Jane Daniels, their situations, you put Jane Daniels out of North Carolina team, Drake May on LSU.

I don't know that Drake May wins the Heisman, but I don't think North Carolina wins more games than necessarily. I mean, it's tough to do when you look at it from that context. but again, you have to kind of divorce them from the situation and isolate their skill set and okay, what is going to translate? What won't? But yeah, both these guys, is it an inflation to draft them as high as the top five? Yeah, it is. But most quarterbacks drafted first round or drafted a little bit earlier than they should. Speaking of inflation, that Pennix next tier that I think probably is the third group here. There have been mock drafts as recently as this week that have Pennix as the top 12 pick. There are other people that don't think people

belongs anywhere near the first round. So, Nate, when you look at these two guys, who, what kind of prospects are we talking about here? Is this like Will Levis last year, who some considered a top 10 picket, then didn't go until the second round? It's the Kenny Pickett thing, where he was pushed up because he was the only quarterback. Like, what level of prospect are you seeing when you look at Michael Paddockson, Bowdox? Actually, I have them graded very similar to how I had picket graded, which is more of a early third rounder. That class, man, I just went back and read all my reports on it and just, I just keep coming back to it. It makes me just feel better because I felt like such a hater during that whole offseason. But anyways, but the Malik Willis at number two

overall wars were so annoying. Someone asked, someone's like, were you high on Willis? I was like, third round grade is not quote unquote high on Willis. That is, that is like, I understand the project. But anyways, going by that, that's where I see these guys more up. They are long, they are multi-year starters at several schools as well. I think that next to- your college starters. Just to clarify, yeah. Yeah, Knicks at Oregon played a completely different style, even there was flashes that he did at Auburn.

Auburn, he was super chaotic. He was all over the place. He had some high-in-key to him, some, you know, some of that going around. He still had to play this year where he ducks underneath, like, an offensive line and trying to close line him and throws the ball, but it's just, but I thought Oregon did a really good job of keeping him in his lane and keeping him and letting him operate at what he's good at. good, quick game.

He's really good throwing on the outside. Throwing over the middle with anticipation. It's up and down. You know, it's not consistent. That's not his game. Nick's you're talking about here. Yes, Nick's, I am. Yes.

So I thought. Could be talking about either of them, really. But I know, actually, I was going to say. Actually, both of the blunders were kind of the same. So, yeah, so Nick's, yeah, and panics, my hesitations with them and why I ding ding this down. And actually, this is some hesitations I have with Daniels as well, is they don't really work consistently over the middle.

And that usually shows anticipation. That usually shows that you have some balls. You know, so I'm going to throw it over there. I'm going to beat this zone coverage. I'm going to beat this tight man-to-man coverage and I'm going to beat it with timing. So when those guys, I see them more as just underneath throwers, especially nicks, a lot more screens and quick game and just getting the ball out of his hands, maybe create a little bit. But not that true, like, you're a dude.

Like, I didn't really see a lot of translatable plays where it's like he's making the hard, difficult throw, maybe one or two a game, like a backside dig. But then you watch the top two guys, they're doing that a dozen, 14, 15 times a game. So that's why I'm a little lower. And same with panics with Washington. He does not work consistently over the middle. He's not very good at it. I don't really care about guys throwing styles and everything like that.

As long as the ball gets out on time, it gets there. It's just that that's something I've learned. It's more about footwork. Getting to his footwork, it can get very elongated. He needs a big platform in the pocket. It's kind of like how Byron Leftwich needed that. kind of like a big area to operate. He never creates or scrambles. Everything is one, two, three, ball out or it's kind of done, ball away. So just that and medicals and multi-year starter where I don't

see that improvement. If you're a four-year starter at multiple schools and good offenses, and you're still hesitating to progress on some plays or you're not seeing the second or third progression, that's when my alarm bell start going off, because you should see the ascension like Daniels made, as opposed to these two guys. I just kind of seem more as interesting high-end backup. talking about four quarterbacks potentially in the top 10. Wide receiver is another spot where a lot of these guys are crammed into the top 10. Going back over the last few years, 2022, we had three guys that went in the top 11, Dane. But even that, it felt like they got pushed up a little bit.

We weren't sure if Drake Lundit would be a top 10 pick. We weren't sure if Chris Olive would go 11th overall. With this group, with the top three that we're talking about here, they seem like definitive top 10 talents. When you're thinking about how Roma Dunez-Malik neighbors and Marvin Harris, as a group compared to years past. Is there another class that this reminds you of it all? Just all the discourse recently about wide receiver one, is it Malik Neighbors? Is it Marvin Harrison Jr.?

It kind of reminds me of the Julio Jones, A.J. Green, when those two guys are coming out. Two outst. I mean, these are clearly top 10 guys. Two of the best wide receiver prospects of the last 15 years. No doubt, no doubt. And so that's how, for me, these, and I will include all three into this conversation. but I do have Harrison, then neighbors, and then Adunzee third, but I do think it's fair to include all three in this mix.

They're three of the best players in this draft. I think it is hard to name the best players without including them, and it's a good year to need a receiver early, and several of these teams do. So we're going to see them go pretty quickly. The group that I compared them to when I was looking back through just recent history, 2021 where you had Jamar Chase, who is always like a top five prospect. That's kind of how Marvin Harrison Jr. feels. You had Jalen Waddle, who's just the extraordinary.

explosion explosive play waiting to happen. I know neighbor stylistically is a little different than that, but he's that explosive element. Then the guy who was just solid, you can set your watch to at production, Devante Smith was in that draft, and Roma Dunzei kind of feels like that. And all those three guys went in the top 10.

So there's been a few of these, but Nate, I can't remember a group like this where it just felt like how you stack them up could be different. They could go as high. The fact that the bears have to be worried about whether the third receiver will make it to nine

in this draft, It just feels like this is a different sort of group when we're talking about these talents. I'm glad you brought to the 2020 one where it's like, yeah, those guys, I liked all three of those guys, London, Wilson, and Lave. I think you had Wilson won that you're Dane. I had London won, yeah. And we both like the Lave. But I did think those guys got inflated a little bit, like you just pointed out, Robert. These guys are all top 10 guys, like easy, easy graded top 10 guys.

And that's, I'm hard on, I talk about being hard on quarterbacks. I feel like I'm hard on receivers. but this has been so easy watching these guys. The three flavors is what's so cool about them. It's just that, it's just that. Having premium guys with size two, you just brought Chase, Waddle and DeBonte Smith. That's the other thing.

Neighbors isn't overwhelmingly big, but he's still, you know, 5, 11, 6 foot. Not an exception in the way that those guys were exceptions. He's your normal Z size. Devante Smith is 170. Waddle was 181, I believe he was. And then Chase wasn't overly large, you know, over at least tall or have long,

arms, he just was very, very strong and proved my ass wrong right away. But I think the 2014 class is the one that, yeah, like I could see the most comparisons to it, where it's just a lot of flavors, some high-end talent, and then also just some other guys that are going to be interesting. That was the Brandon Cook's class. Well, that class is interesting because that in a lot of ways also mirrors this, where Sammy Watkins, people forget what sort of prospect Sammy Watkins is. The bills traded a future first round pick to move up for Sammy Watkins. And while that wasn't, wasn't smart at the time when you look at value. He was that type of guy. He went in the top five.

And Mike Evans was, again, an explosive play waiting to happen. Like, if you think about what he was at Texas A&M, he was just a different sort of beast. And then Beckham went 12th. There was a lot of guys in that draft. I think we forget about that one because so many receivers have come off the board early lately. Yeah. That is a good example of how not to trade back if you're the Browns. Because they move back from four and then what got Justin Gilbert.

So that worked out. Yeah. And that was also, that was the Mansell draft as well. It was Justin Gilbert, Johnny Mansell. Oh, every two first round pick, Barron's draft is always just a nice little surprise, nice little box of chocolates. The,

no, man, that class, Sammy Watkins, freshman year Sammy Watkins. It was one of the all-time freshman seasons. He was incredible. So that's a great reminder of that class. Does it matter to you guys that Marvin Harrison, Jr. is not working out at all. Pro Day or Combine,

not just the 40, but not working out at all for NFL teams. Does that factor in at all, do you think, with any decisions being made about these guys? I got a thing called tape and film and him playing in all those games and him dominating in all those games. So I'm okay. That does matter. Okay.

I appreciate him. I appreciate guys asserting their leverage when they can. But I'm curious what you think, Dan, if there is a tight race between him and neighbors for some of these teams, is this a tiebreaker of sorts in a way that maybe it shouldn't be but our team's going to look at this with a little bit of a critical lens

because they might have these guys bunched up. I'd be shocked. I really would. I mean, either I think that you, either you love him or you like him a lot. It's one of those two things. And I really don't think that you're going out and catching passes

at a pro day is going to make all that much of a difference when, again, put on the tape, you know what he is. Yeah, if you're Marvin Harrison Jr., you don't, what's the point of risking injury? You know, these teams, he's talking to these teams. He knows there's not something that they want to see from him. There's not a specific route that he has not run, that he, that you're worried about. There's nothing that there's left to see that you can't find in the tape.

So no, I think it's humorous that, you know, you see on Twitter, oh, this is going to, that changes wide receiver one. No, guys, come on. Whatever you thought of Harrison based off the tape and neighbors based off the tape, that's how you're going to feel on draft day. So, yeah, I don't think it moves the needle at all. No, it's, and it's not like he's coming. from an old Art Browell's offense where I see him running

go balls and hitches and slants. It's like, like you said, Dane, he runs a full route tree from the slot. Speaking of Brown's two first round outcomes. Yes. Outcomes. Just throw Corey Coleman into that conversation. Oh, I know.

So, but that's the difference is, Corey Coleman, yeah, I want to see you run routes. Even a guy like Lequan Treadwell, which treadwell from Ole Miss. Okay, you're not running a huge route tree there, so I want to see running more. Are you fast off the ball? I've seen Harrison torch guys from the slot

outside vertically short catching yak bubbles. The only thing I think he is not exceptional at is he's not awesome with the ball in his hands. He's not going to juke a lot of guys. He's just a splitter and he gets north. Okay. What am I going to see on film? Okay, let's get some guys and pads.

And can you juke this guy in the box? It's like, yeah, I'm not going to see that. Your Maserati doesn't have the trunk space that you're looking for. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He's not, I mean, but just watch him, guys. He's so clean. He's such a fun prospect.

Dan, as we get past these top three, how would you characterize the rest of the group? Are there different sort of flavors? Are there a bunch of guys you think are first round talents? What does it happen? What happens when you get past the top 10? So most of the teams that I talk to have the same top four, maybe in different order, but the same top four.

Those three guys we were talking about with Marvin Harrison, neighbors and O'Donze, but also Brian Thomas Jr. from LSU in there as well. And then that's where the fun starts. Because after the top four, there's like, eight receivers that are all over the place, depending on who you talk to, maybe even 10 receivers. Just about what you're looking for. All these guys are a little bit different. And, okay, for example, I was talking to a scout the other day, had the exact same grade on Brian Thomas as he did

Ricky Pearsall, the wide receiver from Florida. Different players, but they offer something different, but he had the same grade on them. And so you have a guy like Xavier Worthy from Texas. Teams are very hot and cold on him. I know I'm lower on him. Nate, they did. He make your top 50? He did, but it was a cover my ass one. It was a four to one. See, Robert goes, hey, smart. I know, I suck him in, but it's like, that one's, no, I think I'm at 49.

But I, you had him at 46, Dane, in your latest, in your latest big board. Yeah. And I had him at, yep, 49. I had him at 49. Dane has him at 46 because he believes it. You have him at 49 because you're a coward. My write-up, my write-up on him is hilarious. It's like everybody else is positive, positive, maybe one negative line.

His is like one positive line, like 421's 421. And it's like, you know, he's a body catcher. He's 165, you know, he's pretty good route runner, I guess. Yeah, he's my 49th guy. Sorry, save it work. Because, yeah, he's, you see the speed on tape, but it doesn't equate to explosive plays. And so it really, yeah, worthy's tough. I don't, you and I are both going to be much lower on him than I think most,

most will be out there, yeah. Projecting even a little bit further here, two weeks from now, we're going to dig into the past catchers in a big way. So I don't think we have to tread this territory too much because we're going to spend a lot of time two weeks from now talking about the playmakers available in this draft. This next one,

I was thinking about this morning, just because we have so many guys in the top 10 that people are excited about, players that we do think are blue chip type guys. So I wanted to ask you, Dan, is there a Will Anderson Jr. in this draft? And what I mean by that is the Texans gave up a future first for Will Anderson. And I don't think anyone's worried about that right now.

Part of that is because they're picking in the 20s, but part of that is because Will Anderson, Jr. feels like a foundational player. Is there a prospect in this draft that you'd give up that sort of future capital for in the right situation? Somebody, you're picking outside the top 10, you'd be willing to make that sort of jump up for this guy.

I think the top three receivers that we talked about. Even though this is a deep receiver class, and we're going to be talking a lot about these guys in the second, third round, If you can get one of these top three, it can change your win-loss record next year, as early as their rookie year. And I tell you, an intriguing team for this is Pittsburgh. If you can package some picks to get one of these top three receivers, we've seen this franchise do it before. They moved up 10, 11 spots to get Troy Palomalu.

They did it. Devin Bush. Well, that one didn't quite work out, but they've done it. They did. Recently. Omar Khan, he's, what, second year now as GM, second draft as GM. We don't quite know how aggressive he would be for something like that. And I don't think they're going to trade a future one necessarily.

They need that in case the quarterback situation doesn't work out with the current state of what they're doing. But now that Deontay Johnson's gone, Steelers become a lot more interesting. And if they're fine just sticking and picking a Brian Thomas or an Adne Mitchell, then I get it. But if you can go get one of these top three guys, I think they're worth moving up for. That's where I would. I thought the same exact thing. I said one of the three receivers. That's where I can see one make a splash, especially the teams involved and where they

could maybe sit your bears. It seems like everyone's itching to move up the move up the bears, including myself. But the bears are out of picks. That's my only problem with this. And I wonder how much of their thought process trading for Keenan Allen was with the thought of we don't know if we're going to be able to get one of these guys. Like it might be, they might be hot enough that we don't end up getting one at nine. but I keep hanging out to hope

that they have that extra two from Carolina next year and would they be willing to wield that in some way if it meant going up and getting one if they felt like they had to. I don't think Chris Ballard would do it but the Colts would be another interesting one. If, yeah, if one of those receivers got to eight or whatever, you know,

whatever, to move up. All right, well, why don't we do this, right? Okay, Jacksonville. We've seen all this buzz about what might happen with Brandon I, you can, whether they can trade for somebody they lose out on Calvin Ridley. can Jacksonville go from 17 to 7 and go get one of these guys for a future first round pick?

And would that be worth it? Man, I think so. I think these guys are worth it. I really do. I think they can be Jamar Chase level impact players for your team right away. And they have that type of impact potential. So I don't know. Nate, if you're Jacksonville, is that something you're, you would think of pulling the choice?

Yeah, he came to throwing a Gabe Davis for. Nate is the wrong. Nate's the wrong person to ask about this. I am. There's a five subjects I'm a terrible person to ask. I try to be unbiased about certain things. Like, Nate, would you pay Dak Prescott? Sorry, no, no, just, you know, I, I'm staying for answering the question, sir, I'm biased.

But what Dan's saying is, I'm with him, is that I think that, like, that Colts range, that Jacksonville range is that, hey, Falcons, you want to get that defensive guy a little later and you want some little more collateral, you want a little more something there? Like that eight spot, maybe the bears are going like, okay, well, if the receivers there, I think they just snatch them up, whatever. But it's like, you know, just saying hypothetically, okay, move it. I'm trying to talk myself into that as well. I don't think that that would be a guarantee. Based on the way that they've operated and the lack of picks that they have, even at the receivers there, post-keenan Allen, I don't think it's quite a, and this is based on no

information, just like reading the tea leaves, how few picks they have. I don't think you just pencil that in if they can get a lot of capital and move back because look at what they've done. The high-end picks, they darned right, they traded that second for Monta's sweat and paid him. Their big, big investments have mostly been up front. And so if they think they need a pass rusher, I don't think it's a guarantee that they'd pick the receiver at nine based on history, even if one was there. Just a hunch. Yeah.

I just, it's just, I like Dallas Turner. It's just always just, I struggle with him a little bit as going to like Dallas Turner, Edge, Alabama. I struggle with him sometimes is that he's not overwhelming pass rusher. He's solid, good. He's more of a useful player or a high-end. useful player. So it's like, for me, it's like, I know you're going to be a good pro, but I'm not moving up in the top 10 for you. You know, like, it's just, I just keep coming back, going back. He might, like, it might be wrong here, but I'm just saying that's the type of

player. It's not a formerly Chase Young and Nick Bosa. I'm not saying Chase Young, formerly Chase Young, Nick Bosa, those type of talents where it's like, oh, yeah, go to draft this guy. Will Anderson. Yeah, they get intense sacks. I can see that easy. So that it's just, it's just the flavor of these guys. It's like, oh, am I going to be aggressive for that type of guy? Speaking of the conversations you want to opt out of, Nate, what is the pre-draft conversation to this point that has already annoyed you guys? Nate, you can go first. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I know I want to steer away from here, but general discussions of quarterback footwork and timing. Everyone just stop.

I don't try to be snooty with this. I love everybody just having opinions. I love hearing it from everybody. Stop. Just stop. That's it's it. I'm annoyed by it so much. Some of the clips that you guys use for this in negatives, I don't respond.

But I see it. I see it. I don't have a burner, but I see it. So I just want to get that off my chest. Stop doing it. Stop talking about timing. Stop talking about footwork. Stop talking about progressions. Just stop. That's it. That's all I got. That's so what. Let's turn this into a productive conversation. When you're thinking about when you're watching a guy and you're trying to process what their progressions look like within an offense without understanding how it's being taught and what the offense is, how do you try to bridge that gap in evaluations? No, that's a good point. The, usually the protection, the route depth, and the quarterback footwork are usually all tied in together. You get to the college level, you got some of these airy guys, some of these, you know, it's a little loose. It's not the tight old school West Coast that you can translate very easily. But looking at route depth is usually, and when a guy is breaking on a route is what I'm usually looking at for quote unquote timing purposes. I also, you know, I have, because of my background, have some, you know, cheats I can look at as far. as what the route is. There's only so many lines you can draw guys. Like, that's why I usually

just go high, low, sail, which is just a corner route. It's like there's only so many ways you can do this. So when you watch these guys one after another, go through these routes and go through these things, and if I'm seeing a guy throw the ball before a receiver is even breaking on his route or within the breakage of the route, that's good timing. It doesn't matter what the aesthetics look like. It doesn't matter some, I've seen plenty of quarterbacks. Lamar Jackson's a good one, who takes an extra hitch always, but the ball's out early and he has very good arm strength. So it doesn't matter for him. I couldn't do that. Me and Russell Wilson can't operate on the same time because Russell has a better arm than me. I'm bigger and longer. I take a little longer to do those things. So our timing is

different, but the ball got there at the same time, if that makes sense. It looks different, but we got there at the same time. So I think that's where I think when I look at it, you really look at the routes, really look when the routes are breaking, that's a huge thing for me when I want to look at real timing. Don't look at a drifting in the pocket or anything like that. That is what I've seen. A lot of people constitute as bad footwork, is drifting in the pocket. A lot of quarterbacks do that to work away from pressure that they know is coming. I would go the other way on this. I think if we'd learned anything over the last couple years for what sort of quarterback traits shine through in the NFL, guys that can drift away from pressure and still make plays are the

types of quarterbacks that you're seeking out right now. Those are the ones that. That's the one that set me off. I've seen it's May is the one that is usually getting dinged for this right now. And I've seen when he's drifting away because he understands protection guys and he understands where the pressure is coming from. It's an advanced trait from a redshirt sophomore. So he drifts away and gets the ball out before the guy's breaking on his route. So he's ad-libbing the footwork to work. Yeah, it's sorry, guys, but it's just this, it all ties together.

So when you see it in the flow, when you see a guy breaking two steps on a route and then the ball comes out, that is not good timing. even if it looks, even if it ends up complete, even if it looks like the defender can't make a play on the ball. Proper NFL timing just comes down to that, that little half seconds for all these things. Sorry, thank you for let me go on that rant. Listen, that's what this space is for. Dane, has there been a conversation,

whether in general or about a specific prospect in the run-up so far that has particularly annoyed you in this process? I mean, there's a long list. But I'll just, the most current has been just pro day times. Schools have come out with their own pro day times. People that attend come out with their own pro day times. There's most times so far off when they actually are.

And so like Kamari Lasseter from Georgia, the most recent example, who had a scout text me who was there, ran 461, 463 and it's 40. Now this is a really good player. But obviously 4161, 4663 in the 40-yard dash for a corner is not great. And then there was some speculation that he actually ran the low four or five o's. Okay. So I'd check with 10 teams. And I had eight get back to me.

They were all between 459 and 465. This is, could one of the teams that were there had a fast finger? Sure. This is a 4-6 player. Okay. Like maybe somebody who was at 39 yards. It's certainly possible. This is a 4-6 player.

And that's okay. I mean, that's honestly, that's why he is a mid-second round pick for me in my ranking. He says his lack of speed was. already baked into his ranking. So, yeah, the 4-6 does not look great, but that's what he is. And probably should have ran at the combine because that's a faster track.

That's a different discussion. But yeah, just the discourse over some pro day times. A lot of these, there's a lot of bad times out there, put it that way. Nate, is there discourse around a player so far that you think is going to look really silly when we look back a year from now and the fact that we did this at all?

Like in a negative way? Yeah, just like, I can't believe this is the discussion we're having about this guy. This is going to feel so silly a year from now. A little bit with Drake May and Caleb. It's May right now because I think those two are so easily one, two. Like me being May 1A, that's why I keep trying to emphasize.

It's like, I love Caleb. I love both of these guys. I think they're awesome. But the discussion on May has been pretty exhausting. It's been pretty like, I know smokescreen season, it's silly season and all that, but it's like, we doing this really? Are we watching the same thing? Again, I'm not always trying to be snooty on this, but it's like some of the comments

are just not connected to. to what's happening on film. So he feels like a big one to me where I'm like, okay, all right, if that's where we want to go with this, but all right. Is there anybody for you, Dane where it feels like the current discourse

is a little bit separated from reality? I mean, I think Brock Bowers a little bit. Just, I think we forget how good this guy was. Like, that picture from the Super Bowl of how, like, he's not big. We knew that already. Like, I understand it's a little staggering when you see him next to one of the greatest tight ends

of all time. And one of the most physically imposing tight ends of all time. Yes, exactly. We knew this already. We knew this already. Six-six-268. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like, I don't, that felt really over the top. It wasn't, I want to be clear about this. As someone who reacted to that photo, it wasn't just about the size. It was about the posture. It was about the outfit that he was wearing. Somebody made a joke that it felt like he was about to go to, like, his coding class or something. Like, it really did feel like we were watching a different type of human being standing next to Rob

Grankowski. So while I totally get the actual implications of it, it was very funny to see him with that aesthetic in that moment. You're like, who do Phil Collins can run a 4-4? And there's a big difference between that and the negativity that comes from it, right?

Like, yeah, he's not as physically imposing as some of these other guys, but man, he's a good football player. Let's not lose sight of that. I think there's a good chance we look back a year from now and saying, man, we, we, not we, us, but just the collective discourse really kind of overthought that. Some of that happened to, I happen to Harrison, a little bit too.

I was waiting for one of you guys to say that, but I wondered if the neighbors Harrison thing was close enough to reality that you didn't think that we were overthinking Harrison enough right now. I skipped it because it's more, yeah, it's more about neighbors, right? It's because how good he is. And like, okay, this is a good example. So I DJ, Daniel Jeremiah tweeted how he thinks neighbors will be wide receiver one for some teams. And I quote tweeted it and said facts.

Nate and I've been talking about it on the podcast since November. How there's, it's razor thin. Some teams will have them at wide receiver one. And I, there's so many of those aggregate, I haven't been able to check my Twitter mentions in a week. Because the aggregate Twitter, you know, like dove and I'm not even going to mention. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for those people. But they, they took my tweet and said, oh, wide receiver. He will be wide receiver one for several teams and kind of tweet words here and there.

And so I haven't been able to check my Twitter mentions in a week because it's just, it's unbelievable. But you're better off for it, my friend. Yeah. But the line that I use, every interview that I did at the combine, I think I use the same line. I don't think you can name the top three players in this draft without mentioning both Marvin Harrison, Jr. and Malik neighbors. That's just my opinion. But that's how I see these two guys. It's not one clearly being.

better than the other. It's two really, really good players at the top of the strapped. That is another thing that's annoyed me. This whole, just because there can be two really or three really good prospects at a position. It's not one or the other. It's not one or zero. It's not, man, I really like neighbors. Harris, a junior sucks. It's like, no, all three of these guys are awesome. Like, and I'm Kuhn and Dunzee in the year. But it's just that, that's exactly a day. And everything Dane just said, that's another one where it's like, what are you guys doing with Harrison Jr? It's like, he's awesome. Neighbors is awesome too. And so it's a Dunezay. Like, you can like all three. I like chocolate and vanilla. I like cats and dogs and reptiles and birds. I like all

of them. Animals are cool. So it's like, but that, that, that to me is just, that's been a little annoying too. It's where you don't have to drag down a guy just if you prefer. I prefer May. I have yet to drag down Caleb because I know Caleb is awesome. Or I, as a prospect, I think he is awesome. So there's no need for me to drag him down. So that, if we're going back to that annoyance question, that's been annoying too. It's like, you don't have to drag guys down just because you like a different guy. A couple more very quickly here. Dan, is there a player you feel like you're furthest from consensus on as this process has gone along? Somebody's just like, man, I just don't know if I see it the way that other people are seeing it right now. Yeah, I mean, I'm lower on a few guys

like Xavier Legger from South Carolina. I like him, just not first round high like some other people. Enis Rakestra from a corner from Missouri, I get what there is to like about him. his physicality, the aggressiveness that he plays with is awesome. But he struggled on tape in terms of speed. And that was confirmed with the combine, 451. He's smaller, only 183 pounds. There's some durability questions from college. One career interception in 36 games.

I like him. It's just I like him in the late second round, but I see him in the top 25 and I just can't make that leap. So he's definitely one that comes to mind. I dropped Rick Straar about 12 spots in my last big board and I think he's a keep dropping just because all that

all the size speed combination is just love the player you know as play style he play inside and out and out phicing this I'm right with you day and he might drop a little bit further for me too

probably late 40s by once I'll send done the somebody Xavier worthy height that's we've already talked about that Jane Daniels a little bit you know I see him I have more of a late

first round grade on him and of course some have him as QB2 and some have them as QB1 which we'll talk about in a year and then I would say I'm talking about it in a positive.

Yeah, in a positive sense, I think I'm way higher on Christian Haynes from Yukon, Connecticut Guard, than some others. You know, I have him as an early second round grade. You know, I think maybe he's slotted as more of a third rounder for some, but I, I really like him. I can see him sneaking up there. It's a guy that just really, really liked us a lot more. And the other one is Jalen Polk, receiver from Washington. I have him in my 30s on my big board.

And I just think, I don't think he's going to, he can't, he's not a one, but I think he can be a very, very good two in the. week. He could have that kind of, I'm not a compare it. It's not a one-to-one comparison, but that type of Robert Woods trajectory where he's just that really nice complimentary receiver that does a lot of things well, inside, outside blocks, good hands, could go. He tested in the range I hoped he would. I think he ran like a

451, Dane, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like somewhere around there. Thank God. If he ran a 4 or 5, 8, okay, we're going to a little scared here. But he checked that threshold for me, so I really like Jalen Pocalot a lot. I think he's a very useful receiver. The last one here, Dan, that I wanted to ask you, whose current standing in mock drafts on your big board is maybe the most surprising to you

given where they were when last college football season began? I think Quignan Mitchell definitely stands out from Toledo Corner who, that's been my guy, but the cat's way out of the back on that one. So I feel like I can't even claim them anymore. I'm sorry. I've been baited it ever since you mentioned them to me.

I've just been, look at this guy. Watch this guy. He's awesome. Marshawn Neeland, past rusher from Western Michigan. I'm going to let this fly early, but I think he's my pick for

who's going to be a surprise first rounder this year. I think Marshall Nieland's going to get in the first round. And I never would have thought that in the summer based off of what he put on tape. But he's 63-267 with a 165, 10-yard split. He's explosive. I gave him a second round tape grade, and then seeing him at the combine,

it's like, all right, I think this guy's going to stick into the first round. Anybody for you, Nate, before you started the process and where they are now is just very different? All was one. and we talked about that progression. But I thought of him as a first rounder, but not now I have him as like a legit top five guy, which I would never have thought about in the summer.

I was like, oh, yeah, it's interesting. Quinnette Mitchell was another one, came to mind. I would say on the flip side, or actually I even agree with Jane Daniels. Shoot,

I looked him as a day three guy and I mean, he might go two. I would say Jackson Powers Johnson, unheard up for me until middle of the season. So like going from a nobody to a potential first rounder, I think is a big jump. And I would say on the flip side, I'm going to the difference is a couple of,

of corners. It's Keaton King and Kool-Aid McKinstree, King from Penn State and Kool-A-Mickin-Macon from Alabama. McKinthry was in the number one corner from Alabama entering the season. And then Dane was one of the first people to put Arnold on top of them. And you got kind of smoked for that a little bit and look at everybody now. And that was in September or October. I think Dane did that. And I agree with it. I like Kool-A-McCin-Mick-Sree a lot, but it's just that he's gone from a top-15 guy to maybe an early second round type. So he's one that's had that kind of flip of the of his big board standing all right well we're going to have plenty of time to dig into all these positions with a little bit more depth over the next month or so and that will start

as we talk about this year's quarterback class next thursday very very excited to dig into that very excited to watch more caleb williams than i have over the last few days here that is all we've got for now sincerely appreciate you guys listening as always if you're watching on youtube we have a we have a podcast you can click in the description below to subscribe to that is available on Apple. It's available on Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. If you want, leave us a review. Leave us five stars on Apple or Spotify. If that's where you happen to listen, would sincerely appreciate the feedback. Would sincerely appreciate the support from all of you, if you're a long-time listeners. For now, though, that is all we've got. I will be back on Friday.

Dan and I are going to talk a little bit more about how free agency shaped this draft class potentially and maybe some of the things that have shifted over the last couple weeks of teams as teams have filled some of these needs. We're also going to talk with Brad Spielberger from PFF about this free agent class overall. What can we learn about some of the markets? What can we learn about how some of these teams spent money? So our last little look back at what the first wave and a half of free agency looked like. We'll be coming your way on Friday.

And then from then on out, it's going to be a lot of draft talk all of the time here on the athletic football show. I try not to blow it all out on this show. And I try to rein it back in. I started getting going. So I want to You got to take it easy with me right now Because I can only handle so much

But we're gonna be ramping up here Caleb Williams sail route against two men I was like okay too far Nate Too far rain it back right of this was the idiots guide This is not I will I will It's one of those movies I'm trying to think of examples of this

Where somebody gets very smart very quickly The thing that's coming to mind now is poor things Because I just watched it again last week So I'm like I can't even feed myself right now Hopefully next week I'm reading philosophy ship. That's the type of acceleration I'm looking for. We'll go with the Simpsons. It's Homer taking the crane out of the brain.

We'll go with that. All right, guys. That's all we got right now. Sincerely appreciate you all listening. We'll be back on Friday. Until then, talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.