The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In The Pocket: Bears fire Luke Getsy...but keep Matt Eberflus, awesome QB matchups in the Wild Card round, how gameplanning changes in the playoffs, and more

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

The playoffs are here, and oh boy do we have some intriguing quarterback matchups this weekend, especially on the NFC side of the bracket. Jared Goff vs. Matthew Stafford? Dak Prescott vs. Jordan Love? Yes, please. Robert Mays and Chase Daniel dig into those matchups on this episode of The Athletic Football Show's In The Pocket. Plus, the guys discuss the coaching situation in Chicago, how gameplanning changes in the playoffs, and more.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me for this week's edition, been in the pocket. It's a long time. NFL quarterback, Chase, Daniel. Chase, how you doing, man?

I'm good, good, busy, just like everyone else. But excited for the show. There's a lot going on in Chicagoland these days. And I'm sure we'll get into it. But it's an exciting time. I always like this time of year because, all right, season's over. you got 14 teams really 12 because two aren't playing to just really focus in on so i like that we've talked about it before it's hard to keep up with all 32 and it's quite literally impossible

um so the film breakdowns the stuff you just get to go a little bit deeper and that's who i am by like my dna like that's all i know because i'm used to studying one team at a time and breaking them down so i'm excited about the playoffs and offseason talks and i mean it's a full year count I got into the media thing thinking, okay, I get another six month off season. No, it's like Combine, Pre-Agency, Draft, O-T, and it's just like, but I like it. I enjoy it. I can tell you right now, it does not really stop. You get your break if you want it from about the middle of early June through early July. Like there's like six weeks where you get your break if you want it. But there's always stuff to talk about and today is no exception. We're going to get into some of those

playoff conversations. You obviously have a ton of experience playing. You obviously have a ton of experience playing in the playoffs. And I really want to talk about a few different areas where we think it might be a little bit different. And we're going to touch on that today. But let's start with the news of the day. One of the shoes left to drop in the coaching carousel discussion over this week was what was going to happen with Matt Iberfluse and the Bears.

As of this morning, we have our answer. The Bears have fired Luke Getzzi. They fired several other members of the offensive coaching staff. And they are retaining Matt Iberfluse as their head coach as they set about the next era of the franchise quarterback questions, all of that. First reaction to the Bears moving on from Getsy and keeping Iber Fluse at the end of the day. Maybe we should have used, no, I'm just kidding. So my first.

I'll have thoughts. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. That's what I was like, maybe I don't even need to talk. No. I think for me. I want your perspective, though. Yeah.

I think for me, I thought that Getsy did well enough to possibly keep him in consideration for his job. but at the end of the day, I think it's the right move. Like, I like that move. And I don't think it can tell you one way or another if they're keeping field or they're drafting a quarterback at one. I mean, pretty much it's a clean house from their offensive side of the football. And I think that he just wasn't creative enough.

And I don't think that he got the most out of their offensive pieces. I thought that he fought, like, I still go back. When we talk about this, like you've got to know your quarterback. Your quarterback has to be able to run an offense that he's really good at running, to put it, like, simple. And I go back to last year, those first six games before the Patriots games, you're running a completely different offense that really doesn't fit fields, and it doesn't do fields any justice.

And you switch the Patriots game, and, you know, you still lose a lot of games, but he's playing better. And then you do it the first three games of this year. And I go back to the catalyst of sorts of the Chiefs game, Justin threw for 99 yards, two interceptions, and it was just really, really bad. Everything was covered. They were still under center play action.

And then the next few games, obviously before he got hurt, he played really, really well, eight touchdowns and a two-game stretch, got hurt, which I thought hurt him, obviously, like building momentum, but then was able to come back. And the offense really changed. I just don't think it was enough. And I don't think that it was the,

this new age offense, these new creative style of play type people that has enough outside the box thinking to be able to pair it with your quarterback and your actual weapons on the field. So I think that's ultimately what led to the downfall of Getsey. Now, getting to Iber, I like it. I've said it before. I like that Iber is going to be back as the head coach. Like I said, I don't think it has any indication to do with, hey, we're keeping fields. We're not, I mean, it'd be sweet to be year three with fields and that regime.

But I think it's smart. I mean, listen, you hired Iber for a reason. And quite honestly, I don't know if you want to pay the amount of money that some of these top-name candidates like a hardball or a Ben Johnson or a Mike Rable or a Bill Belichick. I just don't know if they want to pay that much money. And honestly, down the stretch, Iber's defense has played really well. He took over play calling. In the last seven, eight games of the year, in my opinion, they're top. You probably have the numbers, but they're a top eight, six defense in my opinion.

That's about where it lands, yes. Yeah. And so I think you did enough. Now, the question becomes you got to hit this OC higher out of the park. Like, you have to. And if you don't, then quite honestly, you won't have a job next year. If you were going to keep Iber flus, I think you had to do this. Yeah.

the question is whether you should have kept Iber Flus. And two things can be true at the same time. And everything you said about the job that they did on defense, I would 100% agree with. And beyond the on-the-field results from a team-wide, unit-wide perspective, the development of the young defensive players, I think is really important in this conversation when you're thinking about the job that he did. The error was pointing up on so many of those guys. But you can think that Iber Fluse did a good job with the defense and even a good job

keeping everything together so much was happening around them and still think it was the right choice to move on from him. And that's where I fall at the end of the day. Because I think you've put yourself in a position where you have to thread such a tough needle with the two choices that you're about to make. First is the quarterback. I have said this the entire back half of the season, even as the defense was playing better, even as the team was improving. This would be the third time in seven years, potentially, that they have drafted a quarterback in the first round with a coach who is potentially entering the last year of his tenure there because he was on the hot seat. They did it with John Fox and Mr. Trubisky. They did it with Matt Nakey and Justin Fields,

and there's a chance they do it again. That has consistently not worked out for them as they have misaligned some of the biggest decisions that they can make. It can work. You're making it a little bit harder on yourself. And that's my problem here. And this extends to the offensive coordinator decision. If you're an in-demand offensive coordinator, if you're somebody who has options, what is that discussion like in the interview process? You're coming in right now on January 10th. You potentially don't know who the starting quarterback is going to be because they have to explore what the market is, either to trade Justin Fields or to trade the number one overall pick. And you're coming on to a staff that potentially is going to get fired at the end of the year

if they don't show real results and make the playoffs. Is that an attractive job when you're having to make an incredibly important hire for potentially the number one pick in the draft and the first step of his development. I just think that the needles you have to thread are harder to thread in this situation. It can be done, but I think you're making it unnecessarily difficult on yourself when you could have just hit the reset button, looked at all of the models around the NFL and why they're successful and said, you know what, maybe we go closer to this direction. Maybe we find our figurehead offensive head coach who is a play caller. We pair him with an number one pick and we bet on that model because that model is the most consistently successful

in the NFL. That's where I land on it. Yeah. I mean, I tend to agree with you, you know, the biggest pushback I would give myself on saying, hey, good job keeping Iber and sort of agreeing with you would be, well, you know, if you draft a quarter, say you do draft a quarterback at one. Okay, which, which look, I don't agree. I think they're probably going to do it. I think they should keep fields, but I think they'll probably draft a QB at one. I want to spend more time you and I talking about this specifically at some point over the next month because this warrants a much larger conversation than what we can properly give it right now.

Yeah. And what I was saying, though, with that, I agree. I mean, you could do two full shows on this. But what I go back to is if you take a quarterback at one and Iber and staff don't make the playoffs, you're probably getting fired. It doesn't, it probably hurts the development of that quarterback. And so that's what I'm leaning like, well, maybe they just keep fields and get this amazing hot name OC. And that can just like build around fields.

Like so I don't know. I mean, it's going to be such an interesting decision to watch because, yeah, they kept Eber. It probably would have been easier just from outside to just like start all over and build it around the quarterback that you're going to choose either the one first pick or Justin Fields. but there's just so many layers to this that the most important thing is if you keep Iber and you take a quarterback at one, I just don't know how much it'll hurt that quarterback if you get rid of Iber in one year. You know, in different quarterbacks. That's a fair point.

There are a couple different examples here from recent history that I think are worth considering when you look at how this could ultimately play out. The example that I would go to where it's a disaster in year one and it doesn't end up mattering because you find the guy, the right guy in year two, is Jared Gough with the Rams in 2016. They draft him in the last year of Jeff Fisher's tenure. It's a nightmare. Rob Boris is the offensive coordinator. It's one of the worst offenses in the last decade in the NFL. The next year, they hire Sean McVeigh. All systems go. We're fine. Jared Gough is the best version of himself within that offense for a couple of years. You hardly even remember that

McVeigh wasn't there when he was a rookie. Trevor Lawrence. Urban Meyer was Trevor Lawrence's head coach as a rookie. So you bring in Doug Peterson in year one. Trevor Lawrence plays pretty well in year two. It's not a huge deal that you didn't have that first season. Justin Herbert is the best example. Justin Herbert has Anthony Lynn in year one. Shane Steichen was there, though.

So you have a very good offensive coordinator. So I think that you could argue that that first season was a positive for him. So there are a bunch of these, and this happens all the time. Even since 2015, here are the quarterbacks that were drafted in the top 10 and their coaches were fired, the year after, or they kind of misjudged how this was supposed to go early on. Jared Goff in 2016, Justin Herbert in 2020, James Winston and Marcus Marietta in 2015, Baker Mayfield in 2018, Trevor Lawrence in 2020. Tua got two years, but I think that's another example of how this can be okay.

The Dolphins couldn't have botched his development in those first couple years any worse than they did, but they found Mike McDaniel and they got the train back on the tracks. Here's my argument about Mike McDaniel and about Sean McVeigh and them salvage. this situation. You didn't need to wait a year to try to find that guy. Why not try to find your version of that right now rather than thinking, ah, you know, he's done enough to stay. Let's see what we can eat out of this. This is a don't let good be the enemy of great sort of conversation. If the circumstances were different and you weren't going to draft a quarterback number one overall, you were going to keep Justin Fields. I totally understand saying the offensive

coaching wasn't good enough. Let's get a better coordinator in here and let's keep writing out with the model that we have. But because the situation is unique, I think that you have to take a unique approach to it. And I don't think that's what they did. Well, this might signal that they do want to keep Justin Fields. And they do want to keep him with Iber and how he's galvanized at locker room. Like, you have no idea. Like, I've always said, if you trade back the one, you have a ton of ammo, right?

Like, you have a ton of ammo. And honestly, it gets back to my point. Like, I think Justin, given the right circumstances, a new offensive line, a new number two, he can thrive. So maybe this is their way of thinking, like, hey, what are we going to do? with the one? I don't know. It's such a cat and mouse game going into the off season throughout to the draft with these GMs and these owners. Like, no one knows what anyone's going to do until they pull the trigger. I think it'll be really telling who they hire at OC. I mean, that's the biggest thing.

I mean, like, because I think that Justin and Caleb Williams are not similar, but close enough to where Caleb can get in the quarterback run game. I think Justin is a premier runner at the quarterback position. Much better athlete. Yes, just from that perspective. But I do think that like it depends on who you hire. And I think it'll be a lot. Like if you hire some like I go back to like Kellyn Moore. Like if you go like if you hire Kellyn Moore like to me,

I think he can turn Justin Fields into a top 10 quarterback. I really do in that offense. I mean, he's so creative. I was able to sit in with meetings with him this year in the staff in the quarterback room of the chargers and just talking to him. I know him personally, like, he's a guy that could do that. I'm not saying he's going to get hired, but that's someone that in the timing of it all, right? Like, when are they going to hire an OC?

That's going to be interesting. Do they already have somebody that they're willing to go out and hire like right away? Are they going to go back and say, hey, let's make the quarterback decision first and then hire the OC. It's just so intriguing to me. It feels like there are two types of candidates that they'll probably be able to convince to take this job or at least chase. One is a retread type that is a safe bet that maybe wouldn't be getting a lot of other opportunities elsewhere. Two names I would throw out there just as this archetype. Darrell Bevel, who is the Dolphins quarterback's coach and past game coordinator.

Ironically enough, he was Trevor Lawrence's offensive coordinator during Trevor Lawrence's rookie year. So he's familiar with this sort of setup. And a guy like Pep Hamilton, who's out of the league right now, but was the Texans office coordinator last year. He was Justin Herbert's quarterback's coach. Those are the types of guys where maybe they're not the high. hottest names, but this is not the hottest job for the reasons that we've established. Or you go with a Dave Canellis type because he's almost in this exact same situation last year. Todd Bowles is on the hot seat.

Todd Bowles is a defensive-minded head coach. You're bringing in a guy that maybe you're plucking him a year early after his time as the quarterback's coach for the Seahawks, but you're taking a risk. And he did a very good job with Baker. The difference between Kellyn Moore going to the Chargers last year in this situation and Dave Canellis going to the Bucks last year in the situation is, neither of those quarterbacks are the first overall pick in the draft. You have a guy that you spent four million dollars on, so his development and success is kind of whatever. It's gravy if Baker is good.

And then you have Justin Herbert, who was an elite quarterback before Kellan Moore got there. So in my opinion, there are no one-to-one comparisons for all of the dynamics at play here. Yeah, I mean, all those names are interesting to me. I just, I can't see that, like I was with Daryl Bevel. in Detroit. Love them. I don't see them going that way. I don't see them going the Frank Reich, the Pep Hamilton, the Daryl,

Beville type, older. I say older, but like have been around. I feel like they're going to go like super young, not super young, innovative, like college style, like just because that's sort of who you pick,

either Justin or like Caleb or Drake. Like that's where they're going. So I don't know necessarily if, if you're keeping Iber, obviously. he's the CEO defensive guy who's been around and has a ton of experience. I think you have to pair it with a younger, like, innovative OCE and play caller. That is my preference.

I would rather take a risk on a guy who has not gotten the opportunity before and see if you can luck into a star. Nobody knew who Ben Johnson was when he was hired to be the tight ends coach of the Detroit Lions. You try to find the right guy that maybe is unknown, undervalued. And I don't know exactly who those guys are going to be. You're going to see a lot of the same names thrown around. Gerard Johnson, who's the quarterback's coach for the Texans, people like that. The one name that I find intriguing that I think is maybe a little bit further along in his career, and maybe could you convince him to take the job because he's not the play caller where he is right now?

The idea of Michael Lefleur is interesting to me. Somebody like that, where he's a non-play calling offensive coordinator. If you pair him with the number one pick, is that job attractive enough? Maybe not. He might be there in Los Angeles and saying, you know what? I'm doing just fine. We're rolling right now. I'm going to have my share of opportunities a year from now.

I'm not going to jump at the first thing. But I think that's where your head has to be at with us. I can't imagine, though. I mean, I like the name. I think he'd be excellent. I can't imagine, though, if I'm taking you in the room and in the building, and I'm Matt Eber Fluse, I can't imagine that I'm going to hire someone with no play calling experience

to handle Justin Fields or the number one pick. just not going to do it. But how are you going to do that then? You just said you wanted a young, innovative guy. So your opinion, like, Kellan Moore is like the best type of answer.

Calan. Canales. You know, you have Zach Robinson. Zach Robinson actually texts to me last year before he interviewed with the Chargers. Like, I just,

I like the thought of that. But I want someone who has called plays before a young, innovative guy who is going to be able to relate to either quarterback. Either quarterback, back you take. So that that's what I would do like a like a canalis. I just don't know if Dave Canales is going to leave. I'm more talking about Dave Canales type than Dave Canales himself. But I mean, but like think if he could lure him away, you know, like, Iber Fluse is like he goes deep in league circles. And from what I've heard, like people love working for them. I mean, they do. And

and with the draft capital they have, I think this will be a very interesting OC opening with a lot of people wanting to put their hat in the ring. I mean, I do because you're either working with the number one pick or Justin Fields. And what Justin Fields has shown is enough to get anyone and everyone to want to work with the Bears' offense. It's going to be a fascinating search. It's going to be a fascinating couple of months. We will revisit the Justin Fields conversation at some point.

I've been building up this discussion in my mind just in terms of how much ammo I know I'm going to need to come with to combat how you feel about Justin Fields. And I'll be honest with you. I'm not ready yet. I'm just not there yet. I got to stockpile some more acorns over the next three or four weeks before we actually get into this. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think, I mean, it is a fascinating decision.

And I think in part of me, like for the last three weeks of the year, like internally, I was thinking like, okay, they're probably going to let go of Getzi. Okay. But if they let go a Getzi, they'll probably fire Ebert. But now they keep Iber. And so it just is another turn early in the season before the playoffs even again that my mind is like, okay, now I got to rethink some of these situations from a players in perspective. And from like my coach like perspective, okay, not a media. So what are they thinking?

I haven't gotten there either yet. I will say this just to put a bow on it. I don't think this is a ridiculous decision. I don't think that it's not absurd. I understand how you arrived here. I just think that in doing this, you're making it unnecessarily hard on yourself and you're shooting for the middle. And I just don't think you need to do that. When given the opportunity to take a bigger swing and to be a little bit more ambitious and what you want to build there,

I think that that's an opportunity they probably should have jumped on and ultimately they did it. Can it be successful? Yes. There are pads to this working out. There absolutely are. You've just made it a little bit harder on yourself. Let's get into our playoff-centric discussions here. A lot to talk about as we get toward Wild Card weekend.

The first thing I wanted to talk about with you, we've got a couple weather games on tap over this weekend. Right now, it is projected to be zero degrees in Kansas City on Saturday with about 10 to 12 mile an hour wins. That's the high. That's the high. So I think the high is like seven and the low is like zero. Oh, so it's warmed up. So with the wind chill, you're probably looking at what, negative 10?

negative 15. 15. So it is cold. It is going to be very cold there. I was there for the 2019 AFC championship game. So it was the Holmes's rookie year in that right after that. I was, it was freezing. It was so, it felt so cold that day.

It was 19 degrees. Yeah. So it's 10 to 15 degrees warmer than it's going to be this weekend. And the wind is going to be gusting just as hard. In Buffalo on Saturday, on Sunday, They are expecting 25 mile an hour wins with potentially light snow. So both of these games are going to be played in. Let's call it what it is.

Shitty conditions. And I want to know as somebody who's had to deal with this, what sort of consideration and attention is paid to the weather when you're playing a game like this? How does it come up during the week? What do you have to plan for? How large does it loom in your week of discussions for a game like this? Well, pretty large. I mean, like we pay a lot of attention to it, especially quarterbacks because I don't care what anyone tells you.

They're crazy if they're playing quarterback and thinking they're not watching the weather. I learned it from the best Alex Smith because I played in the dome with Drew for first five years, four years of my career. When I went to KC in 2013, obviously was used to playing in the Midwest. He came from Sam Fran where, you know, they got a rain game every once in a while, but pretty decent weather. and he was, I mean, like, Monday, Sunday after game on Monday, he'd be looking at the weather for the next week, seven days out. I'm like, what are you doing, man? Like, you don't need to be looking at this weather. He's like, dude, I got to be prepared.

Like, we got to throw if it's wet, we got to throw in rain gloves. If it's snowing, we got to do like these different gloves that aren't as sticky. If it's windy, all right, we got to think about how to throw and how he was like very, very, cerebral about it and actually was like oh that's actually pretty smart because i hate in any quarterback would tell you is whether games that aren't like 75 and sunny they suck because you're not worried about just it's just human nature and anyone that tells you as a quarterback that they're that i'm lying is crazy like you think about it in the back of your head if you're out there in your plan you're not only thinking about the play you're thinking about okay can i make this

deep out route throw in zero degree weather on a 20 yard BB like I could if it was 75 sunny. No, you can't. Or like you're thinking about the snap if it's snowing or if it's wet. Like just a little bit. Your 100% focus is not purely on executing the play. It's on feeling out all the outside. And it's just it's human nature because it sucks. Like yeah, people are like, oh, it's football weather.

Oh, crap. That ain't football weather in KC. like like like you're going to get a really low scoring football game and so like the coldest game I ever played in was 2008 um 2008 yeah no yeah 2008 uh a big 12 championship game in arrowhead and I think it was like 15 or 18 degrees and it's it was just awful like every hit you take stings every and yeah football guys are like oh yeah you know you're you're tough I get it. You are tough and you try not, but like your face on the sideline, you're bundled up, you're by heaters. There's just a whole other aspect of it. And I've had coaches, I mean,

I remember before the, let me try to get this right. What year did I start at New York Giants? Was it 2018 when I was in Chicago? And it was supposed to rain the entire week. I think it was 2018 we went out there and I knew I was starting I got the whole week of practice um and we went out there toward the end of the week and my quarterback coach they were gone and naggy were like dude you we need to do some wet ball drills like at the end of practice every single day you need to figure because they were like it's supposed to storm it's supposed to storm and I have small hands regardless so like any wet football of me is like good luck like no way no shot just not happening And I remember going out there on Thursday and everyone had left the field and it was like me,

rags and Nagy and Helfrich and a couple receivers in the center. And yeah, it was week 13 and man, I could not hit a five-yard out route. Like I couldn't do it. In practice with the wet balls. Yeah. Yeah. I can do it. I'm like, oh no.

And I tried a glove and I'm like, it was even worse. I'm like, in the back of my mind, I, guarantee you all three of those guys are like thinking, oh, crap. Like if it rains, we're going to have to run the freaking ball 55 times. And I remember the start of the game. It was like one of those sprinkle type where it was just wet enough, but it wasn't too bad. And like every 10th throw, it would slip or like it wasn't. So it wasn't like awful and didn't have a great game.

We almost came back. I mean, crazy comeback. You went 26 of 39 for 285. You threw two picks. Yeah. But and you and you fumble four times. That's what I'm saying in gun. It's the fumbling, dude.

Like I remember, I remember in shock. You didn't lose any of the fumbles though. Do you just fumbled four times? Yeah, which is even worse honestly. Just like, but anyway,

so like catching the snap. I remember there's a couple of those memes out there of me catching the snap and just going straight through my hand. Like stuff is easy as that. Like it's, it's funny to look back on at the time I was so pissed off. You know, I was like,

God, this is first of all embarrassing. second of all, like I was thinking to my head, man, if it was sunny, I'd be dicing these fools up. Like, we throw for 400. Funny enough, that was the Akeem Hicks. He had a touchdown run that game. We pulled out all the stops. We came back.

Last minute in the game, we scored 10 points and lost in OT. But that's just like an example. Like, it's in everyone's mind, especially Miami and Tua and those speedsters. Yeah. Okay. Like, and you have Rahim Moster and Jalen Waddle. coming off of injury, you know, who knows who's, if they're going to play or not. But when you go and then Tyreek with an ankle, so you go to KC, it's zero degrees.

First of all, you get there Saturday. It's freezing. Okay. Or you get there Friday, it's freezing. You go on Saturday night. Plus it's nighttime. So it's the coldest part of the day. And the second you step on on the field, two and a half hours before game, you're frozen. In that ankle, you have to constantly keep it moving. Or those guys come up injury, you constantly have to keep heat. packs on it or riding the bike or like so all of this stuff goes into it where if they're down south beach it's just like you know normal so they got to have a good plan with it it is real

plain and weather when it's zero degrees when we're talking about almost like sub zero temperatures which stuff is hardest is it holding out of the ball is the ball slippery is the ball hard is it certain types of throws is a quarterback center exchange what is the most difficult aspect of playing in that sort of cold yeah for me it's definitely gripping the football. And it's not necessarily the ball slick, right? More so your hands are so cold. Like you're like you go outside and your hands are freezing. Like imagine having to grip a football and throw it in sub zero temp. So it's just it's a little bit more difficult. Obviously the ball expands, right? When it gets colder, it's the deflate gate when Brady would famously deflate the balls.

I'm sure it feels like a boulder in your hands because it's bigger. It's hard. It's like throwing a rock. and I can't imagine that's fun. So that's the cold that we're talking about. In Buffalo, it's wind. So when you're playing in 25, 30 mile an hour wins, I don't know how many of those games you've played in in the past. Every game in Chicago. There you go.

So what are the considerations when you're having to deal with that sort of wind? What has to change? I think wind of that nature. I don't think it's, I don't think a lot changes. I've seen some game plans where we were getting like 40 mile an hour gusts. And I would say the biggest thing is throwing the football. football, right? And so I think that would come into effect, especially in the playoffs. If the wind

gets, like, I think 25 is good. I don't think it's too crazy where you can't throw the football, but you've seen where, hey, you know, instead of deferring, we want to kick this way. Like, they're picking the way they want to kick because we want the wind in the fourth quarter. And so it's two quarters without wind, two quarters without or with. So I think that plays into effect if you're the head coach. But I would say the only thing with wind of that stature in nature is just maybe some kicks, right? I think the kicking game changes. I think punting matters. I think when games in the playoffs come down to this, and I think the Steelers are used to playing in this type of weather.

So I think they're going to be fine. I think it's going to be a good old battle that the most interesting thing we talked about. I know it's like the South Beach Miami going to sub-zero. That is the biggest thing. I don't think that 25 mile an hour wins, people are like, well, that's a lot. With Josh Allen's bazooka, I don't think it matters. It's not like the game they played against the Patriots a couple years ago when you're talking about 45 to 50 mile an hour wins and you could barely throw the ball. The Patriots threw the ball three times in that game.

So it's not that drastic. And I actually think, we'll talk about this a lot, I'm sure, this week, even if the wind is kicking up there to 30, 35 miles an hour, this Bill's team has done a really good job of remaking itself to make them malleable to play in these sorts of circumstances. is to play in these sorts of conditions in the postseason. Their run game is very good. And in the Chiefs Dolphins game, I'll be curious which run game can really click if teams struggle to throw the ball consistent way.

I mean, like the Chief's Dolphins because of the weather and because of Tyree, all that stuff, but I think this is the most interesting game on the AFC side because of the weather. What team, it's literally, I don't, I don't necessarily think it's going to come down to the best team in this game. Who handles the weather the best? I mean, they're practicing in South Beach right now in 70 degree weather. At least the chiefs are in it. And there's like 12 inches of snow on the ground

right now in KC. At least they're into guarantee you they're going outside, practicing it, feeling it at home, all that stuff. And it's go back to the old adage like what wins in playoffs, defense and run game. And I think whoever runs the ball the best, I think I would, I don't bet on any games ever. I don't love it. If I had a lot of money right now, I would put it on the under hitting. Like, I just don't see how there's going to be a lot of points scored on this game.

And I guarantee you it's probably a touchdown less than normal. And I guarantee you Casey's probably got some points from Vegas because of the weather. It is, it plays that big of a factor. The overrunner is 44 and a half. So they're already betting on it being a low scoring game, but you go even lower than that. That's good to know.

All right. I want to keep talking about this as far as playoff preparation and how it changes for these sorts of games. For any given team, how different is game planning for a playoff game than game planning for a regular season game? It's way different. I mean, it is, I just think that not only the game planning, the mood around the locker room and around the building, it's like, okay, I really just do not care what we did the last 17. games we're in the tournament that's every like just make it to the tournament and it's truly it's not what we it's not just like a saying like you're you're oh and oh like you're zero and zero and that is like i remember just like some places i've been i've been lucky enough to make the playoffs a lot when it when it comes playoff time all of sudden those guys maybe that might have off monday and tuesday a veteran receiver or a veteran tackle they're in there they're in there with a quarterback

watching film just to make sure like hey we're just right on the same page or hey the intensity level of every single detail goes up it's a one game season it's a one game season there's 14 teams in there's 12 playing this weekend and you made it this far but also like you want to can obviously the ultimate goal is one in the super bowl but i would say also from a game planning perspective throw everything out the window man like whatever you did in the past doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work now because playoffs is all about matchups. Because you have 60 to 70 plays on offense,

60 to 70 plays on defense against one other team. The team across from you, what is the best way to attack the, if I'm Casey, what is the best way to attack the Miami Dolphins? That's what we're going to run. We're going to put in, it might be 30 new plays rather than 15 new plays because we want to attack what they're doing. and a lot of teams self-scout.

So a lot of players don't go back and watch the first 10 or 15 games of the season because the Miami Dolphins defense, honestly, what I watched with Vic, I didn't see him. He pressured so much more than he normally does this last game against Josh Allen the bill. So now, Casey's like, okay, I got to have a plan for pressure. It's not just this too high quarters, too high look. And so I think that's what's so interesting, just the intensity, the level of focus,

the mental tough, everything, just. is like on every single detail. You see players staying after practice even more and people are going to watch this. I guarantee you in the comments, be like, well, why aren't they doing that for every season?

Game. Okay, I get it. Like, people do. And, but like when you're going through 20 weeks of football, you're a little bit worn out.

You're a little bit tired. Once you make into the tournament, it is, it is every single snap is 110% focus. It feels like there's a benefit to being a little bit more hyper-specific with the game plans you're throwing out there because with some of these teams,

you're willing to lean into the variance. And there are a couple of specific examples I would throw out there. I remember the Patriots Ram's Super Bowl, where the Patriots are playing all these crazy kind of front structures and playing a lot more quarter, like two deep quarters looks, where they were dropping that safety down into the crossers, and it really was giving the Rams a lot of trouble, and that's not typically how the Patriots had played.

You look at what the Bengals have done in the playoffs over the last couple years. That second half against the Chiefs two years ago, where they dropped eight like a dozen times over the course of that game. you're not willing to do that in a regular season game, maybe because one, you're not willing to show it. And two, because the benefits to winning that single game over playing what you normally do probably aren't there. So I think that's probably why you get a little bit crazier or a little bit wonkier in these games because you're willing to live with the downside if the upside is also there. Yeah. I mean, I agree.

And that's the thing. I mean, I was going to hit on it. And not a lot of teams do it, but you have to be prepared for the unexpected. because I guarantee you there's going to be a pressure that Patrick Mahomes faces on Saturday night on Peacock, which that's a whole other discussion on why they put the Chiefs on Peacock. I'm going to have to get a peacock account now. But like they're going to face a pressure from Vic Fangio that they haven't seen. And so it's a lot. It's the old adage. It's it's players not plays. Okay. But you try to get these plays right up there so you can give your players the best chance to succeed. There's going to be. be multiple times on every occasion on on occasions of these games that every quarterback is going to have to just make a play you got to live in the gray okay you can't just be it's not just so black and white there's things you're going to see and it just comes down to feeling it out that's why you see sometimes these playoff games the first quarter with teams that aren't as experienced it

takes them a little bit time to get going on offense and defense and then you see a point explosion second quarter and on so that's that's another thing too that's important and we talk about is playoff experience. To me, playoff experience is second to none. Okay. And if you have playoff experience, in my opinion, especially at the quarterback position, which we'll get into, I think it's a win for you as a team. I'm wondering, any game plans, any tweaks from your career that you particularly remember from playoff games? Yeah, there was a man, in 2015, we didn't win the division when I was at the Casey Chiefs, Andy Reed's third year. But we ended up winning, I think we won 10 in a row that year to get hot. And the biggest thing that I

remember was we went on the road to Houston because Houston had won their division. And we, do we spanked them. I think we beat them 30 to nothing. We shut them out. And so we knew if we were winning that game, we'd probably have to go up to New England to play. Another weather game. Not too crazy. Jason Avant made some crazy catches that day, blast for the past. Jason Avant. Yeah, crazy. But I Andy Reid favorites. Yeah, dude, I know. But I remember we're going up there.

And the entire week, the Patriots were really good that year at disguising what they were doing coverage-wise. But they were only playing two or three types of coverages. It was like every type of man and every type of true cover two, whether it's drop eight or you're rolling safety's back. You're rolling nickel back. And so we put a really good plan together for that. but also the biggest thing for Alex in this offense, and our offense going to that game was cadence. So we wanted to have four to five different cadences on one,

on two, on three, first sound, second sound, dummy audible. Like we wanted to really mix it up. So I think going to that game, we probably had five or six different cadences that we wanted to use. And usually we never do this, but an instance of playoffs is that that was the first time of my 14, and only time in my 14 year career that I had a laminated

smaller call sheet. And on the left side of every single play, it had a star, a triangle, a square. And I knew what that meant, mean like, hey, a star was on one, a square was on two. And I could signal in of sorts almost to Alex

into like, hey, on, we had like this crazy system. I could signal in the cadence to him so he could actually get a tell because we felt that was the best way to go about. beating the Patriots. So which plays, which plays were on one and which plays were on two? Which sorts of plays?

Why would some plays benefit from longer cadences? Longer cadence plays, you could get the defense to say what they're doing and to tell you what they're doing in terms of post-snap. Sometimes you wanted to go on second sound meaning to just get up and run it. Okay. Sometimes you had kill plays or alert plays where you had to go on two or maybe on three. But hey, throughout the whole year on third down,

even if you went on on two on silent two which means two leg kicks in the shotgun they weren't showing it but they were showing it on the third kick so maybe you go on the third kick and on third down that's what we get it was very very intense and we had a really good third down plan i think we lost by eight that game we came back uh toward the end of the game but like even on the even on the sideline like Alex and I were going through play okay hey all right this is yellow cadence this is on three this is indie like so it was it was interesting and It worked for the most part because we got them out of what they were doing, but it was probably the most interesting thing I've done in the playoffs for sure. A couple of things I wanted to hit at. And this is something you and I were discussing a little bit earlier this week. But the NFC specifically, the quarterback dynamics at play and all of these NFC games, you could talk yourself into any of these. Just look at the matchups and look at the underlying storylines with this.

You get Baker Mayfield and his resurgence season going against Jalen Hertz, who's been really struggling. Jalen Hertz going up against the Bucks and Todd Bowles again in the playoffs after getting completely unraveled by them a couple years ago. You have the Dak Prescott Jordan Love matchup, Dack's MVP-esque season, the best year we've ever seen from him. Jordan Love playing the best football of any quarterback in the league, really, over the last month.

I mean, he's been phenomenal. He's playing at an extremely high level going against that Cowboys defense. And then you have the Jared Gough of Matthew Stafford match. matchup that has 10 different layers to it. So as you're looking at all of these quarterback stories and quarterback storylines associated with the NFC playoffs, which is your favorite as we get ready to kick this thing off? I mean, the quarterback dynamics are insane. Don't forget about Brock Purdy because he's one game away from winning an MVP.

If he doesn't throw four interceptions against Baltimore, there's a good chance he gets that MVP. So yeah, I mean, all these, I mean, you could talk yourself into all of them. the Baker-Hertz battle to me is really interesting because the I'm going there first I like it the regression of Jalen Hertz this year and that Brian Johnson offense has been almost impossible I just they're they're very I just think that you know what they're doing pre-snap and I think defenses has gotten that and it's been put on film and they haven't been innovative or creative enough

on offense to figure it out. And then you go on the other side, and you've got a guy who's making $4 million. And Baker, who arguably played at a top 15 quarterback level this year. And if you would have said that before season, I said, you're crazy. Don't talk that to me.

And who honestly has made a lot of money for himself. And is his fourth chance, and he's in the playoffs. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Baker and the bucks beat Philly. Like that's how I feel about Philly. But I think without a doubt, in my opinion, it's got to be Gough Stafford. That's the most interesting matchup to me.

And the headlines this week already reading a ton are going to be mostly Stafford-related. Right. Like Lions fans are being disrespectful to Stafford already on social media. Like I'm just following it. And I'm following Matthew Stafford's wife Kelly so I can see all of the drama and the intrigue of that. because she's tweeting and it's hilarious. And I think that, yes, it's a good story. Matthew Safrae goes back to Detroit.

I think that they're probably going to win. But I think the more intriguing storyline is Jared Goff going against the ramps. And the reason I say that is because, like, look, Shaw McVeigh massaged this so well a couple years ago when he was letting go of Jared Goss. bro, he didn't want Jared Goff anymore. He said, you know what? I'm going to go out and replace you.

I'm going to kick you out the door. I mean, that's what he did. He kicked him out the door. And it was said to be like, oh, you know, we just are just don't see. Okay, that's great. But I can imagine in Jared Goff's like mind right now. He's thinking, man, I would love to beat the brakes off Sean McVeigh. And oh, by the way, the Lions GM, Brad Holmes said, I'll take you.

Please come over here. And golf, I saw a stat on Twitter. I don't know what it is exactly. But the third season in Detroit for golf, the third season for Stafford in L.A., their numbers, touchdowns, yards, interceptions, ratings are almost identical. So who won the trade? Like, that's what it is. And it's going to come down to this game.

I'm going to tell you right now that the Rams won the trade. I'm going to tell you right now that Rams won the trade. But I'm just saying if L.A., if L.A. Super Bowl, I got it. I got it. And that's not to say the Lions didn't. I think it's a win-win for everybody. The Lions did a fantastic job resetting their organization.

Jared Goff has been a perfect quarterback for what they have wanted during this stage. He's a great locker room presence. He's decently affordable when you're not really paying anybody else. There are so many different reasons that that trade was perfect in the moment for the Lions. But I also think it worked out just fine for the ramps. Yeah, they got the Super Bowl. F them picks, right? But yeah, I think the golf, the golf storyline to me,

because you don't hear a lot about golf. You don't hear a lot about he's never in the media. He's not like that. He's not like that. It's a pretty chill dude, Jared Goff. Very chill, but I guarantee you in his mind. He's like, man, oh man. Like, it's going to be, I think that's one of the more interesting games on all

Wildcar weekend, both AFC and NFC. I would 100% agree with that. And again, I'm hoping to go to that game. So we'll see. But two questions for you. You were never in that situation that Jared Goff was it. You know, you weren't a guy who had been to a story. Super Bowl that was as a full-time starter, but you were somebody who was, you thought you were

going to be given an opportunity from the Eagles. You didn't end up getting that opportunity. They move on from you. And two years later, you played the Eagles in the playoffs, even though you weren't the starter. Was there a little bit of you that felt a certain way about winning that game? I think a little bit. I think the revenge factor, especially when you see someone in the playoffs and the whole world is watching. I think there's a little bit of it. I think because it was two years past that I was like okay cool but it was it was interesting to see um and especially my wife was like man like when nick foals went on that super bowl run MVP super bowl winner that was a year after i left and so a little bit in my mind i was like well what if that that could have been me

like but it wasn't and i'm fine with that so i think that's what the eagles and then they went on some crazy fourth down play where where golden tape runs the wrong route ends up scoring the touchdown on fourth down it's just insane yeah i mean you you thought about a little bit but the fact that it was two years past helped me get over a little bit more. And so the other thing I wanted to ask you, you know Matthew Stafford. You played with Matthew Stafford. How do you think Matthew Stafford feels this week? Another chill guy, like you were saying with golf, I think that there is business as usual, right, for any quarterback. But I think once you get on that plane on Friday, Saturday morning, probably, because they're going out east.

I think it'll start to hit him. I think he's so focused on the game plan and what we're doing and who we're going to. And look, you get into a routine, right? Like Tuesdays, off day, Wednesday, today. They're in base downs, first, second downs. Thursday, third down, red zone. Friday, put a bow on everything. Saturday travel.

And I think once you land in Detroit, all these memories are going to come rushing back. And I think that he's got to do a really good job of. like if I was in that if I was in his shoes like I would I would enjoy it I would embrace it so I can get it over with on Saturday and then once it's over with like you still got to go out there and play but I guarantee you I mean he's going to have chills it's going to be interesting for him to go into that stadium as not a Detroit line and see a banner hung up there with like golf did and not you is is going to be interesting as well too so super emotional for him. He'll say no, you know, it's not, it's going to, it's going to matter. The revenge game thing for Matthew Stafford, going back to Detroit, I think is overblown just because, again, it was an amicable split. Everything worked out for everybody. But that doesn't mean it's going to be any less emotional or nostalgic. You're walking back into a place that you spent 12 years at. Imagine if you worked in a place for 12 years, you went somewhere else and then for

whatever reason you had to go back there for a day. I mean, you're going to have so many memories come back to you. There are going to be so many moments that come back to you. He got there when he was 21, 22 years old. He left as a 33, 34 year old father of like four kids. I mean, you, you grew up there, as your kids grew up there. There's so many different aspects that I know for me, if I stepped back into a situation like that, I would be hit by all of those things. And even if there's not any animosity, there still is a lot of emotion. I think he's going to have to sort through. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be tough. It's going to be tough for him to block it all out. And like I said, I would just, I would tell him to embrace it because it is, it's going to be emotional, especially, especially

if they, they win, man. Yeah, I think embracing is the right way to approach it. I mean, think about, think about all of your career and think about everything that you went through there. And it's, it's worth embracing because there were a lot of good moments, but that's still a lot to get your arms around emotionally in that moment. So it's going to be very cool to watch him process that and to watch how he plays in those circumstances. Last thing here, as we get ready for the playoffs and we look at, like you said, the 14 teams that are now part of this, who do you think we're not talking about enough? Which team?

The Kansas City Chiefs, my man, for sure. And the reason I say this is another ho-hum year, eight straight division titles, a dynasty pretty much in the making, if not already. Bowl wins, Patrick Mahomes. Okay, the story of the year has been the chiefs receivers, the drops, the offense are averaging almost a touchdown less per game. So they've struggled, right? And I think that nobody in their right mind thought that the chiefs would win a division title by the play of their defense. But that's the reason that they did. And when you get to playoffs, and we talked about a little early in the show, to me, it's all about experience. Okay, the chiefs

have hosted five straight AFC championship games. That roster is callous, that roster is experience, that roster is everything you want a playoff team to be. So even though they limped into the playoffs, they're still hosting a home game

and I'm going to be interested to see if Patrick Mahomes gets a chance to play a road playoff game because he's never done it before, how that will go. But the experience factor, the coaching factor of Andy Reid, everything in between, right? It doesn't matter how you got there. I think the magic number in these playoffs is 25.

Can the Chiefs score 25 points and win a ballgame? Can they depend on Clyde Edwards-Layer, Isaiah Pacheco, for that run game to get going and take a little bit of pressure off of Patrick Mahomes? everyone in their right mind is going to be playing man-to-man coverage against the Chiefs receivers because they have shown they cannot beat man-to-man coverage this year. That means less guys in the box. You got six in the box. Can you get ways to get seven in the box on offense, run the ball, get some under center play action,

do some of your trickery that Andy Reid is so well known for in the red zone. You got to score touchdowns. But to me, it's the Chiefs without a doubt. There are defense's ability to muck up these games. I think is something that we shouldn't ignore. You look at what they've done this year, I mean, even over the last month or the last six weeks, when the defense maybe hasn't been humming quite like it was in the first half of the season.

21 against the Eagles, 17 against the Raiders. They give 27 against the Packers, which Jordan Love played phenomenal in that game. 20 against the Bill, 17 against the Patriots, 20 against the Raiders include two defensive touchdowns, and 17 against the Bengals.

So teams are still struggled to score against this team, even though if that's a crude way of looking at it. And I think we've seen what Steve Spagnolo can do in the playoffs. He's as good as anybody at throwing those one-off game plans at people. And now he has the horses on that side of the ball. So you have the talent plus those schematic advantages that we've seen from them over the past. And I think, I'm with you. I think they absolutely can put together the right sort of approach in each one of these games to be competitive.

I would say, and I think that people are maybe talking about them a little bit more now because they got the two seed. My answer is Buffalo. If Buffalo is healthy, I think that they are very dangerous. And they're banged up right now. Russell Douglas has heard. Gabe Davis has heard. They've got a lot of guys who might even miss this game. I think they can beat the Steelers even banged up, though.

And if they can get most of that roster back healthy, same sort of deal. The way that they've been able to kind of tap into their veteran players on defense and some of the stuff that they've been throwing at teams, plus the height that they can reach offensively and what we've seen from them on that side of the ball all year, I think in some four straight games in like one off moments, they can be really scary. But I agree with you that the chiefs are also in that conversation. I like the bills pick. I like the bills pick because they are the two seed.

They're not going to have to go on the road until the AFC championship game, but we've seen the one seeds lose. So like if some reason someone gets hot and knocks off Baltimore, home field advantage for the Buffalo Bills, have you ever been to a Buffalo Bills home game? I actually never have been, strangely enough. You need to and go jump on some tables. break some tables do all that stuff because it is outrageous like true college atmosphere they are crazy

they are loud it's cold it plays well into what buffalo wants to do especially running the football like we said earlier but i like that pick buffalo bills k c chiefs it's going to be interesting a lot of stuff to look forward to this week i am very excited about what the wild car round is going to look like jace daniel always great to chat with you my friend always appreciate all of you listening We'll be back here next week. Tons of stuff in the athletic football show feed for you to listen to right now. Me and Diana broke down all of the Black Monday news, some of these coaching searches that are just getting started.

Really enjoyed that show with Diana. Me and Nate did a bonus season-long awards podcast, giving out all of those, really tight races in some of these this year. Defensive player of the year, coach of the year, offensive rookie of the year. So a lot of stuff to chew on there. Really enjoyed doing that show. and then we'll be back with our wild card preview show a little bit later this week.

So really appreciate you listening. I hope you can dig into all the stuff that we're throwing out there. We'll be back a little bit later this week. Talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.