The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In The Pocket: Biggest takeaways from Super Bowl LVIII

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

What did we learn after re-watching Super Bowl LVIII? Robert Mays and Chase Daniel discuss their biggest takeaways from the film including Steve Spagnuolo’s game plan, Chris Jones and Trent McDuffie’s big night and of course Patrick Mahomes’ final drive. They also talk about the 49ers taking the ball in OT, what each roster looks like next season and much more. Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Hey guys, it's Robert. Before we get started, I just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge the tragedy that unfolded at the Chief Super Bowl parade yesterday, shortly after we finished recording this episode. As of right now, one person is dead, with another 10 to 15 reportedly injured in the shooting. I don't know what's left to say that others haven't already said. Several of the victims taken to local hospitals were reportedly children, kids who took the day off from school to create a a lasting memory with their friends and family after watching their favorite team win the Super Bowl. We live in a country where those kids have to exist under a specter of violence like this every day,

where they have to live in fear, even in moments and places reserved for celebration. I'll be thinking of those kids today and of how we continue to fail them over and over again. For now, I hope a conversation about football can provide some of you a little bit of levity, whatever that's worth. Thanks and enjoy the show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me for this week's edition of In the Pocket. It is a long time NFL quarterback, Chase Daniel.

Chase, how you doing, man? Good, good. Just we decided to go on vacation right after football. So we're in Hawaii right now. So this is coming to you from Hawaii and the kids are out of the room. So we got about 45 minutes to an hour to get everything we needed to talk about done before it becomes absolute chaos again. I appreciate your dedication here. I'm going to Mexico next week, and I will not be bringing my podcast equipment.

So we'll have some stuff coming to your guys' way over the next couple weeks. I'll let you know either on social media at the end of this show with a de facto kind of offseason, early offseason schedule looks like. But there's still plenty coming your way on the athletic football show feed, even if I will be out of town next week. But we're going to spend today doing kind of a second reaction look at the Super Bowl. Because even if you're there like I was and you think you're watching the game pretty closely, a lot of things that you can learn by going back and watching the tape. And I feel like the couple days after the game ends are they're always like a nice time to do analysis because there's so many different things you on earth as you go back and take a look at it. So I just straight away going back and watching the Super Bowl film, what is the number one takeaway that you had that you might not have had while watching the game life?

Well, there's two. I got two. I'm going to cheat. I'm going to do two. The first one is that Spaggs. should be like the greatest coordinator of all time. Like just his performance this year, his performance in the game.

I saw you tweeted out, and I didn't know the number was that high in percent of man coverage. I think it was 60 percent man coverage, completely opposite of what he did. And he just said, you know what? We're going to go up and we're going to press the hell out of these receivers. Iuke.

We're not going to let Kittle get off the ball. Now, CMC, 8, right? He had 160 yards, 30 touches. That's fine. And his game plan was like, we're going to let CMC beat us. Because when you're in man coverage, you're a little light in the box. If your receivers run off, they're looking at them. So you're not looking at the ball at all times.

But that was the issue. And honestly, like when the chiefs did play zone and played their too high look, that's when Brock had a lot of big plays, right? On all these in routes, on all these dagger routes. And as soon as they went back to man coverage, they just couldn't get off press. Like they couldn't get off press. You've got to give credit to Spags. I mean, that was the number one thing probably that stood out to me,

just his game plan and how aggressive he was and how he attacked the right side of that San Francisco 40-Ner's offensive line, which is struggled. And they struggled again this in the Super Bowl, but I would say that Brock did a hell of a job navigating pressure and not getting sacked and not getting, like having horrible losses, was able to get rid of the ball on a few occasions. So they overcame that and just how Spags was able to free up Chris Jones. Like Chris Jones, in my opinion, had probably his best game of the year.

Like nonstop pressure, there's two plays that could have been touchdowns. Were it not for Chris Jones? And the third and four. Including that last drive. I mean, that last drive was a game ceiling. The third and four. Yes. They scored a touchdown on the drive where he blew up that kind of play action

leak play down the right sideline to Debo in the shot zone. So that didn't end up becoming a huge moment in the game because the Niners scored a touchdown. But the second one he had, when he gets that penetration with that miscommunication between the backup right guard and the right tackle, that becomes a huge swing play in the game. So I'm totally with you on that. And I'm totally with you on the Spag stuff too. Because I expected them to play like they normally do. Because if you look at teams that have given the Niners problems this year, it's a lot of zone coverage behind the Blitzes.

The Ravens do that. The Vikings do that. the Bengals do that. So I thought, oh, this is who the chiefs are. Like, they'll be fine playing this way because when you give Purdy that rolandex of coverages, especially when you bring pressure, you're making him think a lot. You're making the game hard on him. And that's not what they did at all because, like you said,

they were getting diced up on it early in the game when they were playing zone. There was a play late in the half on the Niners' fifth possession where they brought number two, one of their backup corners off the edge, and Purdy hits Iyuk on a little slam. And it was the last time all game, this is in the second quarter, that the Chiefs brought a blitz from depth and played zone behind it.

It was the last one all game, and it was in the middle of the second quarter because each time they did it, they were getting diced up. So if you look at it, the Chiefs played man coverage 79% of the time behind their blitzes in this game.

47% of their blitzes were cover zero, 32% were cover one. In the regular season, they were 50% playing man coverage behind their blitzes. So you go from 50 to 79, which is a great change up. And I'm sure he's comfortable with me saying this. I asked Steve Spagnola this week. I just texted him.

I said, why did you guys do that? Why did you guys end up playing so much man behind the blitzes? And he said, we just wanted to close up the passing windows. So when we were giving them space, we just felt like they had there with place to be made. And that's exactly what it was. And that is a lot of credit to him for the game plan and a lot of credit for those dbs and what they did behind it. Yeah.

I mean, look, it was, it was impressive because obviously when you sort of completely change who you are on off, not completely changed, but I mean, you had 30% more man pressure behind it. It can put a lot of stress on DBs, right? That's where the stress comes from because if you fall down or if you slip or if you do something like Chris Conley motioned over in a two by two on a big third down to the number three receiver. And it was man coverage. and he toasted one of the dbs. I don't know who it was and got open. And it's like, okay, like, are you sure you want to continue to play man coverage and pressure? This is why they're so good.

And if that's where it puts the onus on these dbs to actually lock it up. Because like I said, if you slip, you're done. If you get picked, you're done. And all this stuff. And I think that Brock and Kyle Shanahan had a really good plan for when they were zone pressuring. Like, hey, just get the ball out. like quick hitters, let's side adjust, let's throw our hot, let's get into the right play.

And I was surprised, I think, at how much scat protection, which is five-man protection, that Kyle Shanahan put Brock Purdy in. Like, they did it more than I probably thought, especially versus a team that brings double-edged pressure a lot, that plays cover zero a lot. And I think that was the biggest part of the game because, I mean, Brock Pretty, I think started 8 of 11, 104 yards or something. and was on fire and then sort of hit a lull when he switched it up between really the second quarter and halfway through the fourth quarter and then Brock started figuring some stuff out,

was able to get it to OT. But it's just, it's what the Chiefs have won with all year long. Like this is no difference. Like Spags has been this way all year long. This has easily been Patrick Mahomes and the Chief's best defense that they've had. Spaggs just signed another extension, like probably one of the highest paid D-cornerers. Like, as he should be. I don't know if he, yeah, and he should be. And honestly, like some people and some coaches, they just don't want to pee head coaches.

They don't want to deal with all that crap. They don't want to deal with, they just want to call the defense. They want to be on the same team as Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reed, get as many rings as you possibly want. And I just think that finally this year, Spaggs got the credit he deserves. Because when he was with Mahomes and Mahomes was doing everything that

Mahomes was doing, it just sort of like went by the wayside. But what they've done with Brett Beach, drafting what they've done, defense together. Spag's calling this defense to everyone's strengths. I think that is the big story of the Super Bowl, in my opinion. The scat protection, I wanted to talk to you about this, because I think in the second half specifically, one of the biggest disconnects between who the Niners were and who the chiefs were is the amount of work that the quarterback could do with the line of scrimmage and getting his guys in the right protection and the right plays against those

pressure looks on third down specifically. The chiefs, we know this. Patrick Mahomes has full autonomy at the line of scrimmage. He can do anything he wants. He can change any protection he wants. That is the control he has within that system. Brock Purdy does not have the same because that's not how the Niners protection system works. Quarterbacks are not given that level of flexibility in autonomy. It's often on the center. And that's why look at what Calh Shanahan has done for most of his career. He had the same center follow him to three different places. Alex Mack was in Cleveland. Then Alex Mack was in Atlanta. And then Alex Mac was in San Francisco because of how important it is to have the right guy in that spot within this system.

So as somebody who knows all these different protection systems in the way that they work, do you think this was an example of kind of the shortcomings of that approach from the Shanahan protection system showing up in a moment like this? I mean, it has to be, right? It has to be. And I think that Spags was one of the teams and defenses to figure it out. And it's like, yeah, these guys, Brandon I, you, George Kittles, CMC, I mean, Jennings, Debo, Ray Ray McLeod, like, all these guys, like, showed up and big times, and they have, in my opinion, probably the number one skill group in the NFL. And it's not even close, like everyone altogether. And if you can get the ball to those guys, it's great. But when protection breaks down, when you are, like, that's been really the big struggle all year long for the San Francisco 49ers. The one week spot on their team is their offensive line. other than the left tackle in my opinion, right?

Like, so they've dealt with this all year. And honestly, it's not talked about enough. It's not written about enough. People don't give Brock enough credit. But he's had to navigate some dirty pockets, man. Like no, no more than what he had to deal with in the Super Bowl, especially on the right side. And I was surprised that Shanahan did go to scat protection a lot.

And there were times where, and I'm sure you saw it, and I'm sure everyone saw it, but they're doing these random, like, we call it buck pass, and you're pulling the guard or you're pulling the center, you're trying to get a suck up from a linebacker. Two or three times they did that, and two or three times it was like pressure right away. He had to throw it out.

I mean, it was the perfect example on the third and four where they start and empty the last play of the season, really, for San Fran. They end up kicking a field goal. Jennings is open on an escape route, like wide open. I went back, watched it like slow-moded it. Like, it is so open. And they're starting Chris McCaffrey to the right, coming across, faking like a jet suite to him while they're pulling the guard. Well, you know, Chris Jones just comes scot-free.

And it's like they don't, you have to get out of those protections, those certain type of protections, like the buck pass when you're pulling the center or pulling the guard, when there's five across. Like you don't have enough guys if it's five down for you to block it. And there was just no check for it. Like Brock knew right away, hey, it saw, it's, I just, I just, just got to sort of live with it and hopefully, you know, we're going out to it. But there's two off the edge. You've got nothing to do but to throw the ball away. And if they're not in that protection, if they're just 5-0 it and they block five-on-five,

forget about the pool. The quarterback in places I've been has had the chance to change that and say, hey, on this buck pass, we're pulling. If it's five across, just say 5-0. We don't need the cell. It's man coverage or zone pressure. The cell of the play fake does nothing. And the route comes wide open. And it, just it would have been wild to see what would have happened if we was got a second overtime or whatever if they would have scored because drawn jennings would have walked in and quite honestly been the MVP i think i counted three plays where they had that sort of buck protection where they were pulling you the guard of the center that ended in negative plays for the

nineers that's the biggest instance the biggest example but on the second drive of the of the second half they tried i think it was actually excuse me it was the first drive of the second half they tried to do the same thing where they pulled brendle against one of the those looks, and Chanel came as a free runner and forced Purdy to throw it away. So then it goes, that's the first drive, the second half, first play. That goes to second and 10, and then they have a false start to get them to second and 15. So people are saying, well, why didn't they run the ball more? Why didn't they run the ball more in the second half?

So the first drive, it was second and 15 after a botched play action pass and a false start. Second drive, that's the drive where Chris Jones reads the boot perfectly on first and 10, gets penetration. Purdy throws it to Jennings for an eight-yard loss because Chanel was in the flat sitting there waiting for it. Yeah. And I don't know how Chris Jones can get that sack because Purdy did some voodoo stuff on him to make sure it wasn't even a sack. And I was thinking like, just throw it away. And I mean, obviously you complete it. It's almost like a better if it's incomplete pass. Well, he should have just thrown it at his feet because then it's second and 10 and then you can get back on track. But those were two huge plays. Because now on the first two drives in the second half, you're at a second in 15 and a second and 18. So there were a lot of negative plays in those moments. You mentioned the Jennings completion and the Chris Connolly completion on third downs in this game. The Niners were three of 12 on third down. Those were two of their three third down conversions on those completions.

There was a sale route to Chris Connolly early in the game, and then he hit Jennings on – it was a beautiful route on third and medium. Both of those completions were against backup corners. And that brings me to the conversation I wanted to have about the two other corners for the chiefs in this game. So let's get to looking good out there by Indochino and talk about two guys who were definitely looking good out there in this game. The reason that the chiefs could play 60% man coverage against the team that has Debo Samuel and Brandon Ayuk is that the two outside corners, the number one and number two corners for this chiefs team, Lageria Sneed and Trent McDuffey, played out of their minds in this game. When I went back and watched, anecdotally you're watching the game, and two things we mentioned in our initial recap,

It seemed like they were playing more man. And then you saw the numbers like, holy shit, they're playing a lot more man. And then it seemed like McDuffie and Sneed were playing at an insane level. And then I went back and watched, and it was even better than I remembered. Every single time these guys were put in a man coverage situation, they were just gloving people up. There was a play right before the Niners kicked a field goal in the first half. That deep shot they took Debo down the left sideline. On that play, Sneed puts Ayyuk in the goal.

ground. He puts him in the ground with an initial jam, and then McDuffie is following Debo step for step down the left sideline for that PBU.B. There were multiple in-breakers to Debo that they tried to hit on third down or late in-series. I remember that one. Two-man. Mcduffey is just with him step-for-step. There was another play where Sneed is with him step-for-step on an in-breaker. And McDuffie obviously had one of the plays of the game on that unblocked pressure on third or four, which we could talk about. But the play. The play. before that, he is in man coverage on Kittle. He gets sucked up by the play action fake, but gets back to Kittle in the flat and makes a tackle

for no gain on second down to force that third and four. There were so many moments from both of those guys in this game that you noticed, but there were just as many where you wouldn't have noticed how good they are. So this game plan is only possible because of what those two dudes can do against arguably one of the best wide receiver duos in the entire NFL. They were ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, both of those guys played insane in me. You hit, you hit like everything that I wrote.

Like, it's hard for me as a quarterback to go in and watch the actual defense. Like, when I'm breaking down Purdy, which we just released it, I'm like, I just want to see what Brock Purdy does. Like, I just want to see the reads offensively. What are the concepts? And then this is probably, I'm going to be honest, like, this is probably one of the first games where I'm breaking down Brock for my quarterback breakdown. down and tell us right. And I find myself halfway through the game going over to the defense and

be like, wow. Like I rarely watch corner now. Like I used to watch it all the time. But it just play after play time after time, big down after big down, third down, fourth down, whatever it was. My eyes did go to the corners. And that says a lot for a quarterback that just wants to break down quarterback play when you actually can go do the defensive side of the ball. And it was what got me excited about those two guys. It's obviously like two all pros in my opinion. And LaGierre Sneed, I mean, allowed one touchdown all year long, right?

It was a Buffalo game. And he's going to get paid. Like honestly, like, it's a different show, but I just don't know if the chiefs are going to be able to pay him and Chris Jones and Willie Gates. Like, I don't know how that will happen. But that's why I enjoyed watching him in a chief's uniform because Spagg just said, go up there and beat the heck out of him.

Go press him. Get in their grill. Like make him know that you're there. and the physicalness of that, not only that, but to be able to be, like, I think, I don't know about you or anyone else out there listening. I think Brandon Ayuk, in my opinion, is a top five to six receiver in the NFL. Like, I really, he's one of my favorite players in the league. It has been for like three years.

So this season and everyone realizing that this guy is that guy has been very fun for me. It's unreal. Yeah. And I really do think he's a top five or six receiver in the NFL, like what he's done. And to put the clamps on him and to stay with, because I, is super tall, super fast, excellent route runner, like all three of those. And for a guy like McDuffie or a guy like Legerese to stay with him all game long, when they're playing 70% man coverage, whatever 60% man coverage is a game, it just puts a lot of trust in those guys. And when you have

guys like that, like, all right, we can play man. I think that's why Spags ended up playing so much. But it was just really impressive from a standpoint of like, you know what's impressive. for me at least when I'm watching and I'm watching Brock and I go across the other side of the ball. I'm like, oh, let me just watch a couple snaps of these guys and just see their technique and ability and reach and Trent McDuffie on the Debo Samuel ball was like step for step. Like it's cover zero. I'm just going to stay step for step with you. Like it was it was impressive to me. I wonder what they're going to do when it comes to paying those guys because they can free up a lot of money this season specifically if they want to.

MVS has like no guaranteed money left on his deal. NBS is going to be there. They would save $12 million if they moved on from NBS. And then Mahomes, Mahomes has a $36 million roster bonus next year. So if they just convert that to a signing bonus and they get his cap hit down from $58 million like it is right now to, what would it be $25 million? That's another $30 million in space if you want to free it up. So we're talking about like potentially $50, $60 million in cap space if they want it. It becomes a cash question.

And this team has at times. been a little bit hesitant to do that, but could they draft the receiver? Could they try to go back in the draft and find somebody else? Or do you think they need an immediate option? I think they need an immediate option. I think, I mean, like,

if you look at the entire roster of the- But they just won the Super Bowl with the guys they had. Bro, I'm telling you right now, I guarantee it, because I know those guys, Veach and Andy Reid are going to fix the freaking receiver room. Like, they got Rishi Rice, and I think that's an actual amazing pick.

Like, I think he's going to be really good. You've got to have a guy like T. Higgins. or a guy like you got to have a vet you got to draft a guy if you got Patrick mons you need you need to put the weapons around they average seven points less a game and yeah they made the Super Bowl because of their defense and then and then finally the last four games of the off or the postseason the offense shows up so I think you need a receiver when I come to the chris jones questions like for me it's like he other than Travis kelsey and patrick mohams he's probably second or third on the team in terms of like leadership like what

it brings the value of the locker room, getting guys in the same area and the same direction and the same mindset. Like, he's that guy. Like, you can't let go of him. And quite honestly, he's one of the better interior players to play. And then the question becomes leguery to see. Do you have enough money? He's going to command 20 million a year, right? Or whatever the top corner market is. I mean, he played like he's going to get it. He's going to get it. How is it structured or do you do you put the franchise tag on like like do you just don't let them go and just be like hey I think we can free up some stuff and then in my opinion if you've heard a franchise tag on them I do think that there would be a team out there that would sign them to an offer sheet like I really

do think something like that would happen um and then Willie Gay I think he's probably out I think he's a good player but I think what Drew Trinkle was able to do at three million dollars coming in for for Willie Gay and for Nick Bolton like that was a steal they're definitely in my opinion need to resign him he's another leader type guy but it's just it's an interesting off season and i think it starts with those really three guys on really two i don't think they're going to resign willie gay it's chris jones legerie seed and then they i you you know what it is february 14th it's valentine's day if they don't sign a receiver and free agency like a legit like guy then you can do something we can call me crate like

I just really think they're going to get a guy. Like, you have Patrick Mahomes, you just won the Super Bowl. You can get a legit guy for $14, $15 million a year. You don't got to pay top money. Like, there's some guys out there that are free, and I'm sure they'll draft a guy, but I just, you got to have somebody else, man, in my opinion. The signing Chris Jones and tagging Legerius Sneed plan,

I can get behind that. Right now, I think the franchise tag for corners is like $18 million this year. 18 or 19 right now. Which you can absolutely afford. And I'm tempted to say they should just resign both of them because they're so good and they're so foundational to what this version of the chiefs are. Who would you rather have though? This was asked to me. And I was hard for me to answer.

And I think it's a good conversation for our listeners. Like if you had, if you could only afford Chris Jones or Legerious Steed, who would you have? So after the game, immediately after the game, because I had spent a good chunk of the game watching the DBs because when you're there, it's like the only chance. you can have in real time to actually watch the defensive backs play. So I was just enamored with the way that McDuffie and Sneed played. So when we were chatting me and Nate just sitting in the stadium, I was like, man, I just don't know how you move on from Legerius Sneed after the way that he played. But then after rewatching the tape, I'm like, I don't know how you move on from Chris Jones,

considering the way that he played. So I kind of switched my tune on this over the last couple of days. the reason that I think I would land on Chris Jones is because finding a pass rusher that can impact the game like that, there are just fewer of them, period, over the entire league. I thought that he was the defensive player of the year in 2022. I truly believed that. I think he's that rare of a piece up front. And the chiefs specifically have done such an excellent job of reloading at those defensive backspots.

Think about the process they went through with Chavarius war two years ago. Travarius Ward develops in that system as I think an undrafted free agent or a very, very late draft pick, becomes a pro bowl caliber player. They let him walk in free agency. He signs with the Niners. And then the replacements that they eventually find with Sneed bumping outside end up being better. What Dave Merritt their defensive backs coach and what Steve Spagnola have been able to do, developing players at those positions has been one of the secret sauce elements to why this Chief's dynasty has been possible.

So I think if I had to pick one, that's why I would pick Chris. Jones even at his age, but I would love for them to find a scenario, a path to be able to bring both of them back, even if it's just for next year. I agree with you. I think it's Chris Jones. And purely because, like, I love, I love the Jerry Seed, had the season of a lifetime, but you can't find past rushers like this. Like, you just interior pass rushers like this, like, it's just a few and far between.

We haven't talked about Patrick Mahomes at all. So, so far on the show. Well, that was my second point. But you said the takeaways, I never got to it because we, we, uh, we ended up like just going on the tangent of Steve Spagnola, but that was my second point. So what were you going to ask about it? Because I can tell you.

What stood out to you just about the way that he played? Well, you know, so when we first started, I was like, hey, I have two observations. The first is Steve Seaginola. And we talked about him for 15 minutes, rightfully so. Probably could talk about him on the whole show. My second observation was just how freaking good Patrick Mahomes is.

And it is so difficult for, a player that's played in the league like I have or a guy like you who's covered the league or really anybody to be like, why is Patrick Mahomes so good? Like, okay, we know it, right? Like, we know the physical. We know he can make all the throws. He's transcended upon the game. Like, all this stuff. And I just find myself thinking, like, you look at the two-minute drive to win the game. Oh, I was, that's funny. I was gonna go,

I thought you met the two minute drive in the first half, but the two minute drive to win the game is just as important. So keep going. Like the two minute drive to win a freaking Super Bowl. Like,

you look at the drive and you break it down, it's 13 plays. And there's really no, like splash plays through the end. It's just him taken underneath completions. The, you know, and if you look at it, it's just like, okay, you're moving, you're moving.

Then he starts using his legs. Then that fourth and one. Then that third and it's just, he just knows how to take over a game. And then you look at this like, I'm pretty sure it was the Rishi Rice shallow cross versus cover zero in that drive. Am I right? Or he hit Rishie Rice on the shallow cross to get passed into field goal range. and the 49ers in Steve Wilkes are cover zero in Patrick Mahomes.

And in my mind, I'm thinking, why are you like zeroing the greatest quarterback of all time? In my, like, he knows it's coming. He understands when it's, when the blitz is happening. He understands what's going on and where his answers are. And if you watch that play, I think Jared McKinnon's in. He comes across, tries to like pick Fred Warner. And Mahomes just ever so slightly moves to the right. he knows where the free rusher is.

Okay. And he just ever so slight. And then it's just a shallow cross, but he has to get it over, all the hands standing up. Okay. And then really, they aren't really rushing.

They're must rushing. He gets it through a window. But the ball placement on the throw, and the biggest point in the game on a third down is like right on Rishi Rice's head. And so it allows him to continue running and to get around the edge and to get like an 18-yard gain or 20-yard game. whatever it was.

It's the fine details on every single snap of the game. If you remember, I think it was the two-minute drive in the fourth quarter. He goes up there. It's a huge third and two, I think. And once again, Steve Wilkes is showing cover zero. So Mahomes is, hey, he does his football signal. He gets everyone lined up.

He moves Jermakinen over. And, dude, I've never seen this work, but we practice all the time. called a bluff screen. And that's exactly, he got to a bluff screen and the biggest point in the game when probably he hasn't practiced it with Jared McKinnon, you know, since he was hurt. And he goes and he slides the line full left and you can see the center, you can see the center Creed Humphrey. Like, all right, let's go, let's go. Everyone's like, are you sure? You want to do this right now? Are you sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jared McKinnon goes, bluffs. The blitz are coming from

Mahomes is right. And Mahomes just nice, easy dot to him in the flat. And for six yards, not big, but it gets him in a field goal range. Oh, it's a game changing play. To check into that in that moment was one of the biggest plays of the game. But I'm saying like from a pure, if you're just looking at this game from a pure stat point, you're like, oh, a six-yard completion. All right, it's good. How he got there, you have to really dive into it and understand, oh, that was a check.

That was the biggest play of the game because they're able to send it to overtime. Then the Travis Kelsey won and the rhythm and just everything about him and how he's really evolved from a player that can, do it all physically to a player that's really locked in mentally. And we've said it before, but the best player in the world is continuing to get better. That's a scary thought for all the NFL. The mental side of it, I think, is what's really jumped out in terms of the stuff he's handling at the line of scrimmage, the protections. It's a combination of mental acuity and knowledge, but also feel.

The changing protections, that's like if you're taking a test. You know, I have the answers to the test. I can write it in. That's actual knowledge. But you combine that with the feel that he has. for the position. And that's where it gets really scary. What you're talking about, where it's a slight drift here, it's a slight drift there.

The amount of things he can do with his legs in those moments. I wanted to talk about the two-minute drive before the half because those are the types of things that get lost to history. We're going to remember everything that happened in the second half. But the two-minute drive before the half when they went down and kicked a field goal, there's a third and nine, and he buys time to his right and then eventually throws back across his body to Justin Watson for a huge 20-year game on third and nine. And it's just one of those plays that will never think about again if you didn't rewatch the game.

But it's beautiful. And then he hits Rishi Rice on a slant on that drive. They go down. They kick a field goal. And it's three points that end up becoming hugely important. And then there was a drive in the second half. They kick another field goal. There was a third and four and he gets four yards on a scramble.

It was the play right before that 20-yard keeper that got Bosa when he was crashing down. So just all those little plays that add him over and over and over. They did. And it was a great game playing because he made, I think, one or two TFLs screaming down the line. So being able to have a counter to that, I think is exactly right. But there are just so many third and fours, third and eights that he just picks up over the course of the game. Just like reaching down on the ground and putting it in his pocket over and over and over again. And when you're playing against that guy in those high leverage moments and he continues to find those, that's the subtle greatness. That's the type of stuff that, again, unless you go back and watch every single play, you're probably never going to remember. But when you accumulate those over a game, over a stretch in the playoffs, over a season, that's what makes him so, so good is that he's making all of those plays while making very, very few mistakes.

Did you see the tweet yesterday from Barstow, Big Cat about Mahomes? Because I think it fits here. It was Neil Payne. Yeah, Neil Payne. So Neil Payne from his substack tweeting that I think it was a certain set of circumstances. You can read it off. Yeah. I mean, look, it's a little bit along.

But yeah, it's Neil Payne, but Big Cat put it out. And then obviously, like you can see right here, Neil Payne, Neil Substack. So Mahom, since 2001, there have been 125 drives in NFL postseason where it was at least the fourth quarter. There was under a minute left to play in the team on offense trail by seven points or fewer at the start. these are your standard clutch moments for a football team that do or die drives that win and lose critical games. Out of those 125 drives, only 40% of them saw the team on offense pull off the magic trick and get the points they needed, which I think 40% is actually pretty high. Yeah, that's impressive, actually. That's impressive.

So that point, it was like, well, only, I think that's a good number. Some quarterbacks are pretty good at it. Tom Brady went five for 11, 46%. My guy Drew Brees, three for six. 50% only Patrick Mahomes though is seven for seven in those dire situations he's perfect that is the exact like under a minute left to play and he's like I got this I'm perfect on it and it's the biggest game of the year it's the biggest game I'm just going to go do it again like it's just it was insane with that in mind how surprised were you when the Niners decided to take the ball in overtime

just like everyone else. And I tweeted it out. I was like, I think, I think Kyle Shannon forgot the rules. Like, that's the first thought that comes to me. Like, I literally think that maybe he, like, forgot the rules. And the NFL films comes out today and,

and Chanhan is like, no, we're taking the ball. And I'm like, oh, and then you see juice in NFL films like, oh, if we score, they got a, they get a chance to score too. Like, everyone was surprised. And as the week goes on, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, it's such the wrong decision. At this point, it's such the wrong decision. Like, you get nothing of going first.

You get nothing at all. There's no momentum at this point. It's a tied game. It's a brand new game. Well, let's say they go down. You kick the field goal. If they go down and kick a field goal, then you get the ball in its sudden death.

So essentially, you are trying to recreate the circumstances of the old overtime rules by taking the ball first. I get it. But, like, you can say, you give. Patrick Mahomes four downs. That's the problem. You get an extra down. And then if you're Brock Purdy on the first one, you're thinking you're going to, you're thinking you're going to go down and score a touchdown or a field goal. But if you don't and say you get to the 50 and you're like, all right, it's fourth down and four, well, you're not going for it. Like you're punning. Okay. And they got a field goal. The defense held for the chiefs. And then you give Mahomes four downs to Marchdown, which they got the fourth down on that. Right. Right. And then it's just like, I thought it was, like, that just tells you how surprised I was when I was like, I thought, I thought Kyle Shanan forgot the rules. And the fact that it's come out this week that says all the 49er players had no clue of the rule. And Drew Tranquil told everyone like, we've had meetings on this.

Every single week since we've been in the playoffs. We've gone through scenarios. We have done everything that we need to twice during. Super Bowl week. And by the way, we were told that if we score, we're going for two for the win. So your argument and everyone else's argument, you don't know that. It's like, oh, well, they have to score a touch. It don't matter. The Chiefs were going for. They weren't getting this thing going. So it's just, in my opinion, you gain nothing from going first. I, in a vacuum, if you're looking purely at the numbers and simulations and everything else, I get it. I understand thinking it's a 50-50 shot. We want sudden death.

going against this guy in this moment and giving him the four downs knowing that all he needs to do is score a touchdown. I was there in Kansas City when they played the bills. And that game went to overtime. And I remember how inevitable it felt as soon as they got the ball with a chance to go down and score a touchdown and win the game.

It just felt like it was all but guaranteed. It's like, okay, this is going to happen. It's just a matter of how and how long it's going to take for them to go down and do it. So with that in mind, I think that I understand throwing out the numbers, throwing out the process and just saying, we want to make sure we know what we need after they go down

and either kick a field goal or score a touchdown. So there's part of me that wants to defend it because I get having a, you go into it, you talk to your people, you know what you're going to do when the moment comes. But because Patrick Mahomes is on the other side, I can also understand switching it up and just saying, we want all the information possible. We don't want to give him four downs to do this.

What do you think? I mean, that was surprising, but what was even more surprising for me was was Kyle Shanhan's choice to go for it on fourth and three when a field goal would have tied it. What were your thoughts on that? Was it a field goal would have tied it or if field goal would have given them the lead?

I don't know what it was, but the fourth and three at the 20 yard line when they could have easily kicked a field goal. Oh, in that moment, I think it's a great decision. I think it's, I mean, if they, because it would end up being huge. If they kick a field goal there, we might not even go to overtime. Because I remember I went back and rewatched this morning. And when they did that, when they had the third down stop,

I was like, oh, man, that's a huge stop. And then I had forgotten that they got the fourth down. And they scored a touchdown on the next play. Yeah, I know. It's just like, for me, I'm thinking, like, well, if you don't get the fourth down. And I think, what was the score at that point? So at that point, they were down 13. They were down 13 to 10.

13.10. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I think I would have just, it was, I was more surprised about that just in the flow of the game, the way the game was going, that you're passing up points to potentially tie it. Now you get it and you score the next play. You go up 1713 or whatever it was, but I just, I don't know. I mean, it's just, it was wild to me. Fourth and three, 1246 left in the game. You're down. You know he's getting the ball at least one more time, maybe two more time. So even if it's tied, let's say you know they're going to score on at least one more possession over the course of the game

based on who you're playing against. I get, even in that moment, knowing that it'll go to tie the game, thinking that you know you're going to need more points before this thing is over. And fourth and three from the 15 maybe is your best shot. I think you're handicapping yourself, though, because if you don't get it in,

say Mahomes goes down and scores a touchdown, that's a 10-point lead, it's a two-score game. At least you give yourself a choice. chance to have a one score game. Now, no, it was the right decision because he got it. But I'm saying from from my aspect of like not being as super like go for it heavy as some analytics and teams, that's all I'm saying is like, you know Mahomes is probably going to score more. And if you don't get it, think about how big of a blow it would be to the sideline. Like, oh, man. And then they go down. Now we're down 10 and we got to get two scores to even tie like, like I don't know. All that played

into my decision. This is always my question here. Okay. Let's say you don't get it. Okay, and you miss the fourth down. They have the ball in their own 15. Is kicking the field goal there as an offense? Is that really some big boost to morale? Or is the boost that you get from the touchdown is that tradeoff worth it there enough? That's my question. Yeah, I mean, against Mahomes, I would be like, let's tie it.

Like, that's just what I'm saying. Against my homes, I'm thinking, I want every point. Yeah. I want every point that I can get. What if you don't make it? Like, there's a chance you don't make it there. And the funny thing is, they didn't even run some like crazy play it was just like a little out of it's very easy it was outside leverage

versus outside leverage too i'm just like oh like where was kiddle at the whole game like why don't you go do more than that i don't know it's just an interesting conversation everyone's going to be like oh i'm sure when they're listening to this robert's right chase it wrong i'm just saying like in my because i do think people are more like go for go for what do you have to lose i'm just saying there is something to lose there if you don't make it and my homes goes down and now you're down 10 points i think when you're you we're not moving the ball very consistently over the course that half. You're already down to the 15. I always think about it as, is there going to be a worse scenario you're going to have to go forward on forked down if you don't end up getting

those four extra points in this moment? Or is this going to be your best shot to push it a little bit and make sure you score a touchdown? You get seven. Yes. And in that moment, I can totally understand going for it. I get kicking it. I get the argument for it. But I support trying to go forward in that moment knowing that you're already on the 15 yard line and you're probably going to give him the ball two more time before this game is over. Yeah. It was just surprising to me when they did it like live in person. I was like, oh, okay.

Like I was thinking any other, maybe any other team. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. So maybe any other team that you're not playing Mahomes, or maybe they kick it. I'm just like, all right, we're playing good defense. Oh, I think he said that after the game. I think after the game, he said that typically we wouldn't do something like that, but I know who the guy on the other sideline is.

Yeah. And so he's had to deal with this too many times. ball in OT. If he knows that, like, that's completely... I think that's a decision they made weeks ago. And, yeah, I think that's a decision they made weeks ago. And he even said that after the game. He said that's something we went over with our analytics guys.

We thought we were, when we got in that scenario, we were going to take the ball first. And I think that these were his exact words, the gut feeling also lined up with that in the moment, is that I wanted the ball first so we could have it in sudden death. And eventually that became a huge thing. down. I think in that moment we learned a lot about what the real world implications of that decision are. You can go through as many simulations because this is the first time we've ever seen it.

It's the first time we've ever seen this. So all you have to go on so far is all the simulations your analytics team is running and then playing it out a million different times and a million different scenarios of what is best. And you probably land somewhere near 50-50 and it becomes a preference. But now we've seen it happen in real time and we've seen what it has. what it feels like when you're taking the ball against a guy like this, I have to assume that we'll see teams fall on the other side of the line a little bit more often after this one. Well, I just think it's hilarious that they made the rule because of the Chiefs, and the Chiefs were the one to say, ah, that not so fast we'll still win.

Like, that to me is just like full circle moment right there. The last thing I wanted to ask you, we've had two overtime Super Bowls in NFL history. Kyle Shanahan has been on the wrong side of both of those. He's been in three Super Bowls. He's lost two of them to Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs. If you're the Niners, you're bringing everybody back for the most part. We'll see what happens with IUC. You know, he's going into the last year of his deal.

I have to assume that if they traded him, they would get hauled for him. Please don't treat him. My God. At a certain point, you know, they've done this in the past. They traded to Forrest Buckner. They got a first round pick for him. So the reason that I'm thinking about this is I'm wondering, like, what the Bears would have to give up to get Brandon Iyuk and send him to an extension.

It's like, all right, if we give you not. That would be sick. If we give you nine and you give us I, you can one of your third round compensatory picks, let's call it a deal. I was already laying in bed thinking about that last night. But for argument's sake, let's say that they keep him, they keep their entire core, they use the resources that they do have to maybe beep off the interior of the offensive line a little bit. This is set up to be a very good team moving forward. I think the Brock Party played really, really solid football this year. I was impressed with the way that he played in the Super Bowl.

but if you're in that Niners locker and you're a member of that Niners organization, do you think this lingers? Like, how do you come back from what that moment felt like in short order? Yeah, I mean, you know, we said it, we said it maybe a couple weeks ago or the week before the Super Bowl show, whatever we did, preview show, was like it is the absolute worst feeling to lose in the Super Bowl. Like, like there's no worse feeling, especially to lose an overtime to Patrick Mahomes, right? So you're so close and you're thinking, man, if it's not Patrick Mahomes,

the other side, we might have it. And the way they started the game, I thought offensively, I thought the first half, like Kyle Shanahan won the first half. They outplayed them significantly in the first half. And then it's only like, what is it? Was it 10 to 6 at halftime or 103 at halftime? They should have had a bigger lead. I mean, that should have a big lead point is a huge play.

The muff punt is a game-changing play. And then the other one that I had forgotten in the moment, and then you'd be watching, think about how important it. was the fake screen to Iyuk that they overthrew that's a potential touchdown he's open on that play there were a bunch of missed opportunities for them in this game they could have put it away much earlier than they did and then and then purdy on the on the misthrow to i say the miss throw but chris jones on the huge like heavy screen play action to debo down in the reds and that was an overthrow too they scored a touchdown on that drive because yeah but i'm just saying like it's just

like these short misses like that and then when i think you look at it from Kyle Shanahan perspective, there's, there's only so much you can do. Like, like they had, and they were like one of the top three teams throughout the entire NFL season. And you just got to figure out a way to win the big game. Like there's, when you lose to Mahomes and as a coordinator, you lose to Brady, right? It's just like, well, that's two of the best to ever do it. And so it's just like, I don't know if it lingers much more as like, all right, what do we need to do to get like half a percent better to be able to beat Mahomes because that's who you have to think about it as. If it's not Mahomes, then it's like, all right, we got everyone. Like, we're good. And so that these

questions are always hard for me because I'm just like, man, it didn't work out for you. Let's just continue to work and get better and try to get better and try to fix like the small things. Like, I don't think this was a classic. And if everyone, anyone else says different, I don't believe you. This was a classic like the Patrick Mahomes led chiefs, they took this game and won it. It's not that the 49ers lost the game, in my opinion. Like coaching, yeah, the muff punt, I got it. Like, but I don't think Kyle Shanahan did anything to lose the game per se. Like, he played it right.

He, like, other than the decision at OT to take the, like, all that stuff, it's just you can nitpick it now because you lost, but all that stuff is like, I've never been good at that big picture. Because it's like, what, what do teams and players actually do after a loss like this? They just get back to work, man. They don't, you can't just walk. following it and like just figure out oh you know what was no like you got freaking draft combine free agency like how are you going to make the team better who's going to be a big part of the team

they found their quarterback like they're going to be in this conversation as long as they have purdy and the team and the defense around them for for a long time like it's just i hate the i hate the conversation and i don't say you're bringing it up but i hate the conversation like oh shanan 0 and 3 in Super Bowls and 0 and 2 against my I get it like you're playing against the best player in the world I tend to agree with you it's I don't think there's anything radical that needs to be done and

we've had a lot of guys who they were they were the one they were the guy who couldn't win one until they did you know Andy Reid used to be this guy I said it before the game started I said that Kyle Shanahan is now in his Andy Reid phase like early Andy Reid phase where you're a great offensive coach and for one reason or another

you've never been able to get over the top and maybe that's a quarterback later in his career. Maybe that's a couple of lucky breaks that he's not getting. There hasn't gotten the last couple times. I don't know. But if I'm the Niners, I don't think this is some blow it up. Like, oh, man, like we have to completely retool how we think about this. I think

let's build in some more answers with our protection system for if we get jumped by something like this again, we know how to handle it. Let's use our resources this offseason to bolt up and boost the interior of the offensive line. Let's draft a guard somewhere. Let's find a tackle somewhere. And then

let's roll the ball back out and understand that we're better than 31 other teams are before the season even starts. I mean, they're already going to be one of the Super Bowl favorites heading into the year. So I don't think that they have to do some drastic retooling of who they are. I just think that getting this close again and knowing you could have done it, and without a couple self-inflicted wounds, you probably would have done it. It's just a tough pill to swallow. It's going to take a long time to come to terms with that.

And you already could see how much he's been wearing the other ones on his face. Kyle Shanahan has aged a lot in the last. five, six years. And that's what being an NFL head coach does to you. But now there's another one. And as these things keep piling up, I just think it's going to be important to recognize and acknowledge what sort of toll it takes on him and what sort of toll it takes on the guys who are losing these games.

I totally agree. All right. It's a tough one, man. On that note, go enjoy Hawaii. As Kyle Shanahan stares into the existential abyss, you get to go play on the beach with your kids. Let's go. Enjoy that, my friend.

Thank you very much for the time. And thank you to all of you guys for listening. We will be back a little bit later this week with a collection of the radio row interviews that we did. So me and Will Anderson, me and Kyle Hamilton and Kyle Van Nuoy, me and Aiden Hutchinson and Brian Branch. Those will be coming your guys' way packaged together

on Friday within the feed. And then Football GM will be coming your way on Saturday. Monday, me and Nate will be talking about our biggest offseason questions. as we get the 2024 offseason started. So that's what's coming to your guys' way over the next few days. For now, as always, really appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon.

This was The Athletic Football Show.