The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In the Pocket: Brock Purdy's production, Justin Hebert's performance, Kirk Cousins set to hit free agency this spring

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

In this edition of In The Pocket, Robert Mays and Chase Daniel discuss the impressive day from CJ Stroud against the Jaguars. What Brock Purdy's production means in the 49ers offseason. One heck of a performance from Justin Herbert. What happens to Kirk Cousins the rest of the season? And how Davante Adams seems a bit frustrated in Las Vegas and more.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is sponsored by Sleep Number®: Now, save $400 on the New Sleep Number® c4 smart bed. Plus, special financing for a limited time. Only at Sleep Number® stores or sleepnumber.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me for this week's edition of In the Pocket. It is longtime NFL quarterback, Chase Daniel. Chase, how you doing, man? What's going on, man? How you doing?

I'm doing well. Week three, we said this on the Sunday night show, and I truly believe it. That slate of games on Sunday and the way that it all unfolded, I feel like the NFL is back now. The first two weeks are an acclimation period, just getting used to the rhythms of watching again. But some of the outcomes, some of the storylines, just the league and all the stuff to sink your teeth into, it really does feel like we're back. And we've got some stuff today that I am very excited to talk to you about. We're going to continue our rookie quarterback spotlight with C.J. Stroud.

Talk about one hell of a game from Justin Herbert. Talk about some other more quarterback adjacent stuff, not necessarily performances from last week, but I really wanted to get your. insight on some storylines around the league and some dynamics within certain buildings. But I wanted to start with a question that the football internet has been asking really for the last year or so. And I sometimes get worried that we can get a little bit too myopic with the way that we think about this as football media and certain spheres of the football media. So when we met earlier this week about and talked about what we were going to discuss today, this is the first thing that I brought up to you. Because last Thursday was the latest

entry into the conversation about what Brock Purdy really is. This team is second in the NFL and EPA per dropback so far this season, the Niners are. When he was on the field last year after the Christian McCaffrey trade as well, this was arguably the best offense in football. Last week against the Giants, another great stat line, 25 or 37, 310, 2 touchdowns. But obviously, and that's why we're doing this, that doesn't tell the whole story. 67% of those yards came after the catch.

only 54% of his throws traveled five yards in the air. Worth noting that he was blitzed at a historic rate. But there's a lot to dig into here and a lot to untangle here. So I wanted to have a real conversation with someone who's played the position about what Brock Purdy's production means within this offense. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of different layers to it. Thanks for that long winded intro to what I'm about the top.

talk about. But I, so the statute said 67% of those yards came after the catch and 54% of his throws travel less than five yards in the air. Okay, that's a Shanahan offense. Just bottom line, like week in, week out, that is like sort of like there was a third and 13 and 13th and 15 screen that they converted. Like that's the type of thing that Shanahan does. Not only with his play calling, his play design, when he calls certain plays, but he has a knack for that. Okay. So that is the offense. But I would say this is almost an argument that I have heard said versus something I really hate. Is it the quarterback or is it the system? Is it the quarterback who's making the plays and the tough throws?

Or is it the system that's making the player better than he would be without the system? And in a rare occurrence, it's both. It's both for me with Brock Purdy because I think Brock Purdy, When I watch him, I watch like a guy who knows exactly what he's doing on every single play. He has an answer in his toolbox for every single coverage. You know, the first drive wasn't great. He put the ball in harm's way a few times and then he settled in because it was probably not, they probably weren't expecting him to pressure that much the Giants, but they did.

And they made some sideline adjustments. And you saw like the third drive, I think, on through. halftime, the two-minute drill, and then the second half. I thought he played just so, just so well. And it was within the offense. It wasn't like he was out there being Superman. Now, I made some Superman throws, the throw going back to Kittle on the sideline where he dropped it over the guy, like falling back. That to me was outstanding. That's the quarterback 100%. The touchdown throw in cover zero, where he's drifting back, drifting back, lofts up a corner route to the end zone. I mean, perfect, like footwork, perfect timing.

You'd tell they had been working on it. And it was, it was an impressive performance, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's always like a little bit of a mystery, right? Like, is like, like, because I hate, I used to hate when that would get brought up, uh, like when I was at Mizzou. We had an amazing system, but I'm like, dude, I'm still the one pulling the trigger. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, don't, don't doubt me.

And that was my biggest doubt, doubters coming out of, of college. Whereas the NFL, like, scouts and head coaches, like, well, he's really good, puts up a lot of numbers in college, but can he throw a 20-yard-out route to the field on an NFL hash? Like, all that stuff. And so I used to get really pissed off because I'd be like, the thing is, you want a quarterback to be able to run your system how you see fit. So this is the perfect example of, like, the two meshing together. Obviously, not everyone could do this. We've seen quarterbacks, lesser quarterbacks, in this offense. and the stats aren't the same.

Jimmy Garoppolo put up fantastic numbers in this offense, very similar to the ones that Brock Prater are putting up. But when you go a step lower than that, and we've seen the Nick Mullins' is of the world and C.J. Bethard play in this offense. And while they're elevated, it still doesn't look like this. So obviously that argument is a non-starter. Not everyone can do this.

But I also think that he's not being asked to do so many things that a huge portion of starting level quarterbacks in the NFL could not do well. So my question to you is, where does he elevate what they are trying to do on offense? And does he, in your opinion, elevate what they're trying to do on offense? I think for the first time in three shows, I think you're wrong on that. Because of what I know and the coaches I've been around that is in that system. And I just think that he absolutely, like, you've got to be one smart cat in that offense, man,

because there's three plays at times called in the huddle and their run game checks, their run game mic IDs, all that stuff's being put on him as a seventh round rookie last year. Now he's being able to grow into it. Obviously missed some time with his with his elbow and something. But I just think he's finally showing and finally taking ownership within the offense. And I think that's that's exactly what Kyle Shanahan wants in his, in his quarterback. And I do think, like, the Nick Mullen, like, there was some stat. I think I saw it again. Like, he threw for, like, the most yards and, like, a five, a 10-game span and NFL

hit or something. He's, like, over 350 yards a game or something. And that brings me back to, like, okay, well, but also, I don't know if he's as smart and is well-fit for the offense as Brock Purdy. Because when I watch, when I watch Brock Purdy and a lot of people watching the film will miss it and not see it. But just on every, like they, first of all, they, they're the closest look in offense to Miami for obvious reasons, um, than anyone because of the shifts and the motions and the motion, motion landmarks and the snap points. Like all that stuff, like people don't realize it's not just like, hey, you're just dropping back and throwing the ball to Debo Samuel. Like it is very, very mentally taxing. And their play call sheet is long as all get out. Like one of the longer play call sheets in the league, the San Francisco 49ers. So I think all. of that to me makes me think

like this is a very good fit and also a very good feel for how he is expected to play. And he played that way as a rookie and you're starting to see it game three already like that wasn't a fluke. It's the right mix of different traits and different aspects to make this offense hum.

And there's a play in the first half where Debo turns a 25-yard completion into a 40-yard completion because he makes three guys missing space. He's opened by 10 yards on the endbreaker there. It's not a difficult throw. Those are the throws that those are available to you within the offense. But you look at some of the other throws.

You mentioned the corner route to Kittle. He had a couple others, the touchdown. He hit a really nice throwing an in-breaker. Did you want Jennings in the first half where there's like a really good anticipation as he's throwing that ball? But those are the structure of the offense stuff is there. But this game, you didn't see it as much. But in other games, what he's really brought,

that other quarterbacks haven't is that there's also some out of structure stuff. He's a little bit more aggressive. He's willing to extend plays. So overall, whatever the recipe is, no matter how you want to try to extricate it and divvy up credit within this entire system, it works. And I think that's the most important thing is that he is running the offense available to him and making the three, four, five plays that quarterback X, replaceable quarterback X might not be able to make in the same circumstances. And for this team and this moment, that's more than enough. Well, and I was just so impressed, honestly, just because I hadn't watched a lot of them actual film on the iPad, like actually studying. I've watched a lot of just, like, game film where I've seen and he's just bawling.

And I haven't really, really dove in. And I watched the whole game. And I was just, I mean, it's just, it's impressive when a guy like that played quarterback in the league can go up to you and watch your tape and just, understand like the nuances of the position. And like I wrote, the first thing I wrote right here was like he's so smooth. Like he's never in a hurry. He just seems like he has everything under control.

Everyone knows that he has like a bunch, like a little bit of swagger, everyone that we talk to. Like you gotta have that. So the guys love him. And, but he's also like a servant leader. Like he's like leading by example.

He's wanting to make the team better. Like he's doing all the right things. It just seems like they got. this pick, like, so right. And it's still early on in his career, but just everything and especially like that they're going through in the offense and just what they put on him. Like, it just seems like the perfect marriage, which is, which is cool. I mean, you know, I hope he stays healthy and I hope he is the quarterback for the next 10 years there because it's, he's fun to watch, honestly. So I wanted to ask you, where are some moments where maybe he keeps his cool, he keeps his composure

that other quarterbacks might not be wired to do the same. Like what are some areas where maybe he has a little bit more poise, just comfort than other quarterbacks might? Well, the first thing I wrote down, I have like 15 notes on them because I was just, I couldn't stop writing. I couldn't stop writing about it because I'm like, this is impressive.

The first one I had was stands in the pocket. Like the dude is just like standing in there. We'll take a hit. Like if protection breaks down, you never see them flustered on the sideline. You never see them palms up is like what you used to call it in the quarterback room. We used to find people in New Orleans like,

you give me a palms up on the field, bro. Like, as a quarterback, you're getting fine, bro. Like, you're getting fine in our room. He's never done that. Like, he's just so cool, cool, and collected. So I think it's just an overall feeling. Like, to me, the biggest deal as an NFL quarterback, especially a young guy,

because Brock is still very young, is can you stand in the pocket and deliver it, take a hit, get back up, and do it over and. over and over and not one of these like chuck and ducks is like what we used to call it like you're throwing the ball you're like I don't want to get it you know because I've been in that situation before because like these dudes are huge but like there's just no panic in his eyes or his body language or anything that to me is what stands out what specifically in your mind makes the offense so quarterback

friendly like this version of it because obviously we know what the shanahan offense is it's been around for 30 years there have been so many different iterations of it but when you watch this current version of the Niners offense. What do you think allows quarterbacks to function so well within it? Well, you got to, I mean, I said it before. Like, you have to be smart. Because for you to be smart, that allows the coaching staff in Kyle Shanahan to give you multiple options on multiple different plays.

So you're not stuck in a bad play. That to me is like the number one thing about being such a quarterback friendly office is like, hey, if it's too high, we're running the ball. If it's single high, we're throwing it. If it's man, you got a chance to check to a man beater, like every single snap. So that to me, that to me, like, that's all I can talk about, right? It's like my experience. That is what I wanted.

I wanted to never, ever go up to the line, put your hands under center and think, oh, man, this ain't going to work. Like, this is not a good play. Like, like, just a bad, bad feeling. Even if it's a run, you're like, God, it's like, only. almost like you're wasting plays, if that makes sense. Sure. And I just don't see, like, I don't see that. I don't see that in this offense.

And so that's what's cool about as a quarterback. And from the whole team, like, hey, we're going to put you in positions to make plays, but you better be smart. You better know how to run the offense. And, I mean, just how John Lynch has built that offense from the offensive line to the, to the receivers, to the running backs. I mean, that's a quarterback's, like, best. friend like you get separation iuk dibo kiddle cmc i just keep going it just is like all these

weapons built around it that also makes it a quarterback friendly office you're like hey i can just throw a screen to cmc on third and third and 13 in the red zone he's going to go get a first down like i don't got to drop back and you know hold the ball and move around in the pocket try to find a completion like that to me i'm like oh okay i'll just throw it out there and let let him go do the work and he's he's he's doing such a great job at that. I mean, honestly. I mean, it's impressive. All right.

Let's move on to one hell of a performance that we wanted to dig into today. It's our rookie quarterback spotlight of the week. And we're going to talk about C.J. Stroud. What a day for C.J. Stroud on Sunday against the Jags. 20, 30, 280, two touchdowns. And I don't even think that stat line does justice to the way that he played in the game. Yeah, I thought it was more your hards and like more. Like, I totally agree with you.

And there were so many aspects to that game that stood out to me when I rewatched it. Where do you even want to start? What in your mind was the most impressive thing that you saw him do on Sunday, the most impressive part of that performance? Just that it's very difficult for rookie quarterbacks to do a lot of things and play fast. And the biggest thing, though, is getting through progressions. And that's what people in the building have told me, too. like they are super impressed with how he's able to see a defense and process it in his head

and get through his progressions one two three not open like he made a throw that won't go down and like it's 11 yard completion but he made a throw where he got through one and two and the pocket was closing in and I'm like and he had to step up and a lot of guys would just dirt it he somehow found three in the left sideline just sitting there and threw it out and was 11-yard gain second along first down that was the first play that jumped out to me there's a botched jet motion on that play so the timing is thrown off he snapped it too early yeah that's that that might be on him but there are so many things that could have gone wrong on that play there's a botched jet motion there's penetration on the right side he has to slide in the pocket and not even did he buy himself time he still tried to read the play out He still went to number two before getting to his checkdown.

That play was so impressive to me. Just the willingness to kind of hang in there and go through the entire play, not even not just panic, but still read out the play. It was unbelievably impressive. But a lot of quarterbacks might, that is impressive. But what's more impressive about him is a lot of quarterbacks would go through and sit in the pocket and read through progressions, but they wouldn't get through it quickly. So they might get to one to two and you might try to get to three,

but you might get sat because time's up. two and a half seconds, you're done. What's impressive, like, he's able to understand what defenses are doing, because he's really smart, everything I've heard. Like, I was, I was literally just texting the OC or the past game coordinator, like about him. Like, bro, give me something. Like, he's just like, dude, he's so smart. Like, he's so smart, which is like, not, I mean, it's impossible. Like, you know, wonder, like, whatever. Like, it's just, it's hard to tell until you get a guy in the building, getting guy in the offense. And also, like, what stood out to me, what stood out to me, which may not sit out to you, but like he's out there.

I mean, they're, they have run to run kills in that offense and that 49er offense with Sloick. Like to me, I saw a couple times where I'm like, oh, they better not run right. They better not run right. They're right on outside zone right. And he's alert, alert, alert. Yeah. Alerting it left.

There's a couple of times. Like, yeah. That's just, it seems so easy to a, to a team or to a audience that's watching. But like some of these, and I know this because I know the offense, some of these run to run progressions and kills is what we call it, like killing a play to get to another play. A lot of these are like, hey, is this three tech, is this a three technique or is this a two I? It's not like, hey, safety down. We're going this way.

Some of it is. But a lot of it's like, hey, you need a three tech and a nine tech only to run this trap play. And that's the only way to run it. So he's looking at multiple things because it's a very very. very intense offense like that. But he was able to do that. And that, that to me is like,

hey, like you can trust, you could trust the guy. Like he's, he's in his playbook. He's learning it. He's smart. Obviously,

he's thrown for like over 900 yards or whatever it is and three games. I mean, it's, it's impressive. The most encouraging part to me is that we always knew he could throw it. I mean, you watch his tape at Ohio State.

I mean, he was the most accurate quarterback in the draft. He has a ton of arm talent. His ability to layer throws to the second level. It was really impressive in college. I think remains impressive. but he was never under pressure in college. It was like 24% of his snaps.

He's got two starters in the NFL right now as rookies, one of whom is playing very well in Arizona. The other is a fourth round pick that is played just fine in spot duty in Cleveland. And we didn't know what he would look like when the game got dirtier. And when the pocket got muddier and he had to navigate that space. And that was one of the most impressive things he did on Sunday. That play we're talking about with a checkdown. He has to slide in the pocket.

there was another one in the first half where it's play action. He comes off the in breaker, slides in the pocket to his right, and then with anticipation on time, throws the out to Robert Woods before he's out of his break. And so the arm talent was obvious always. But his ability to navigate the pocket, especially when that gets crowded, that's already stood out.

And I think that was one of the biggest questions people had about him coming out. Yeah, and that was literally, I have it like bolded and circled in my notes was tight pocket. tight window throws. And that's, that's the NFL. Like the NFL is a dirty pocket at all times. And it's the,

the windows that he's throwing to. Like, he's fitting some balls in there that maybe some guys are like, ah, it's covered. He's like, no, I'm trusting it.

And eventually there's going to be one that pops up and tipped. And he had one that he tried to, he didn't layer enough over that linebacker that should have got picked off. But dude, it happens. But the one you're talking about.

Yeah. Even that play that almost got picked off. The reason he throws that is because he knows the linebacker supposed to take the cheese on the underneath route. And the linebackers made a good play. He understood the structure of the defense and that's why he made the decision. Even that wasn't that bad. And the play, it's so funny because I wrote down a bunch of plays, but the play you're

talking about where he hits Robert Woods on an out route on the right side line. And it's like a 20-yard comeback route. I literally, I literally texted my guy at Houston and like videoed. I videoed this play and I sent it to him as I'm talking like I'm breaking it down on Twitter or whatever. And I'm like, oh my gosh, because it's, they call it like a slim route. It's a five step slant off heavy play action in the pistol. And it was straight covered. And usually on the backside, it's either like a dig, a sit or a comeback.

And I'm like, I'm like, as I'm filming this and talking, I'm like, you guys decided to give him a 20-yard comeback. Like you couldn't get another end-breaker. like that was your that was your option and sure enough like in time in rhythm and I'm like dude he got through that progression so fast what like you guys got a guy like because you know you know if NFL guys are sitting in back and forth it's like it's impressive like super impressive the most impressive throw he made in that game in my opinion might have been the one that was incomplete to Nico Collins there was a throw on third down where it was he was running like a little bender and he throws it when he can barely see the receiver and it hits him in

the hands and Nico gets up and he does that that's on me like I I should have had that one he tried to fit that one in there because it was a weird coverage it was like what we call three but like the the the trips is to the right Nico's uh tight split single receiver I think and they're like in three buzz where the safety's coming down and the backside the backside so he's thinking in his mind C.J. Straud's thinking in his mind hey my three buzz beater is backside on this little post a little rap route but what he didn't I don't think he saw was like the guy was pressing Nico Collins. And so Nico's like running at a man beater. But CJ's like, no, bro, like, you're my single high beater, man beater or zone beater. Like, you got a win. And he threw it. And I was like,

whoa, like, as like, I'm like watching it. Like, wow. And he actually, I had to rewind it. And he actually fit it in there. And I'm like, oh, all right. And then that's all Nico. Like, it's on me. It's a me. But like just, just, I mean, processing all that information like I'm telling it to you, he's going through it in about 10 seconds. Like, hey, I see a big hole here. Strong side. It's got to be three buzz based on film study. I'm going back to my slant route, backside or my in route, wrap route, whatever. And to actually do that and process it over and over and over again, on the road, in a tough environment against a division opponent, it was impressive. There was one last play that really stood out to me. And it's a comparison that I actually

made before the draft. And I think that after watching this game, I feel pretty decent about it. He had like an out and up from the pocket and threw a ball to Dalton Schultz at the pile on, right before Dalton Schultz even turned around. And they barely missed it. And his reaction was incredible because he wanted that play so bad and understandable because it would have been an incredible play. But the pocket movement and then even the way that he was moving with the ball, like the way that we had two hands on the ball.

Yeah. He looked exactly like Joe Burrow. Like in that moment, he looked exactly like Joe Burrow. And coming out of the draft, when I was watching him, it's like they're both six three incredible accuracy. and when I watched that entire and I think in our pre-draft podcast the way that I framed it is

his best case scenario is Joe Burrow. Let's say it happens 20% of the time. And when I watched that game on Sunday, those are the vibes that I got. It was very much Joe Burrow vibes. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good, that's good because I definitely see that now that you're talking about. I know the exact play you're talking about.

It was a good throw, maybe an inch outside and Dalton should have caught it. But just how he stepped up and just, yeah, I mean, it goes back to like what I said, like, just is, he's smooth. He's, like, smooth. And he's not super antsy back there. And honestly, like, this early in his career, that's hard to teach. So you think it's going to be that way.

He's got four backup offensive linemen in the game right now. See, I didn't even know that. That wouldn't, which makes it even more impressive. Yeah. Yeah, that's not good. How quickly do you know if a guy's a guy? Like, when you watch that game in your mind, is it like he's just got. it or do we need to see more before you're willing to say something like that i think i mean i need to see

i need to see more um it's easy for for anyone to see a rookie quarterback have success early and say he's got it you know but there's been so many guys who have had success and maybe it's like one and then just like but i do think like he's he's starting on the right path man like like like it's it's such a different story than the other two rookies right now because Bryce Young has been hurt anthrageton hopefully coming back this week concussion but played well the one and a half games or whatever he played um but I would say it's too early to tell and and I would say that if Houston was picked I mean what I've seen like if Houston was picking one I think they would have chose C.J. Stroud I mean I think they're really happy with who they got. I thought he was

the best quarterback. If I was picking number one, he's the guy I would have chosen because I thought his floor was really high. And now I think we're seeing, again, if he can have that kind of Joe Burrow-like profile to his game. Man, if he could be Joe Burrow, that's a hell of a pick. I mean, it's a very, it is one hell of a pick. The other, the last thing I wanted to say, and this is such a stupid point,

but I thought he did such a great job of getting the ball out on screens and against free rushers. Oh, yeah. Like just the way he was putting touch on some of those throws. Not everyone can do that and not everyone is calm enough to make those plays in those situations. He made four or five of those in this game where he's just popping the ball over somebody or throwing it sidearm around somebody. And I was like, it's just a good way of operating. Like every element of who he was in that game was impressive.

And it's a good observation by you because I don't think it's a dumb point. I'm glad you made it up because the screen, yeah, obviously the screen throws like you got to be like it's either like a dart or free throws what used to said. If it's a dart, you're throwing between guys. If it's a free throw, you're throwing over guys. And he had all those throws, like, dart or free throw. But what I was most impressed about and what I was texting my guy in Houston about was like I got excited about the two plays.

I think it was like the second drive or third drive where they ended up throwing a touchdown on the corner route. But he got zeroed the first time in the game down there in the high red zone. And he just calmly caught the snap free rusher in his face and just on a little slant route to the right. Okay, first down. It was like second 11. I'm like, oh, okay. Like he had a plan for it. He saw it. He knew what to do. And then they zeroed him again, three plays later. And he stayed calm and didn't make the best throw, but like it doesn't have to be the best throw if it's caught. Right. Like he was like falling back, free rush in his face and threw a

corner out for a touchdown. And that's what I said. I like, I was like, dude, you guys got back to back zero's almost and then you made them pay, okay, and then they didn't do it again. So that scared them all from doing that. That's a rookie quarterback saying, hey, I can handle the zero. I know what you got. Here's what I got. That was impressive to me. The last thing I wanted to ask you, the touchdown that he threw to tank Dell, what are

the Jags doing on that play? No clue. I was trying to figure out. Was it cover three? Is he supposed to be the post safety, but he's hanging out at the line of scrimmage? If he is, why didn't he run back right away? You're saying, so you're, it was down at the one. It was, it was down at the one.

Oh, whatever. Down at the one. Yeah, the long completion of the tank down. Yeah, long completion to take down. So, no, that's, that's another thing. Like, like the Jaguars completely screwed up their rotation on that play. So you see the left safety. Um, with dreads, he's down and he's like, no, he's pointing to the other safety.

No, you go back, you go back and he understands, like he gets it. And he's like, oh no. And he's running back. And they actually have like the perfect. play on it where he's C.J. Strav is literally supposed to come off play action. It's heavy play action. It's a two-man route. It's a deep over in a post. Everyone in the league runs it. It's not hard, but it's very successful. And your eyes off that fake, when you're faking, you're supposed to come up and you're supposed to locate the free safety in single high coverage. Okay. So when you

locate the free safety in single high coverage, you need to make a really quick judgment. Is the free safety driving the over route? Or is he staying back? If he's staying. If he's staying, back, I'm throwing the over. If he's driving the over, I'm letting the post launch. And so he comes off the fake and he's like, oh, my God. Where's the free safety? There's no one there. Yeah. And so he's like, I'm launching this. And then it ends up being like an amazing throw because the corner actually drop kicked is what we call it. And the safety somehow was on the ball and almost made the play. But he saw it and he made him pay. And that's, that's something that to me is was cool to see because if I've been on those a couple times where the defense is like so screwed up and you just sort of freak out and you're just like oh check down when reality just like let it play out let it play out and just launchola and that's what he did it was cool it was funny because I think he noticed it before the play and it seemed like he was trying to get to the top of his drop as fast as possible in order to just get it and let it rip which was very funny to watch but that little bit of recognition I think again speaks to how locked in he was over the course of that game

Yeah. All right. Let's talk about arguably the best quarterback performance of the weekend. And that is a guy that you know very well in Justin Herbert. Some of the numbers from that game were staggering when I went back and looked at them. So he was blitzed on about 82% of his dropbacks, which was the most in a game since 2016. Two of them, the two heaviest blitz games in the next gen stats era happened last week. One to Brock Purdy, one to Justin Herbert.

That's wild. he was in the shotgun in this game 92% of the time which is the highest rate he's ever had in a single game in his career and they ran the ball 15 times which is the third lowest total in a chargers game since he became the quarterback it is difficult and it said this earlier today to more decidedly put the game in your quarterback's hands with a game plan and a method of offense than what the chargers did with justin herbert on sunday and he was very game Oh my God. He was, it was, and I, we still, we still text back and forth. Like, he's my boy. And, and I, and I, and I, and I told them, I sent him, I'll, I'll read you the text. I sent him on, this is on Tuesday. Okay. I said, I just watched the Philly game versus Minnesota, because I know he was watching it that day, because that's the day they watch. If you guys block their zero, you're going to have a career day. It's only bringing five and six guys. And he didn't respond because he was obviously like doing it. And, and he gets tons of texts. And I'm not going to say what he said back on Sunday after he responded. But I'll end with

he said, I've never seen so much zero before. That's what he ended with. I'm not going to say the rest. And I was watching the game too because I was like the Minnesota Philly. I'm like, what is Minnesota doing? Like it works, but

Philly gashed them for two huge post routes to DeVont Smith. And when they got off the bus and I'm like, I mean, that's literally my, that's where my head went. So you got to see the inner workings right there of a quarterback to quarterback. Like, bro, if they blitz, you guys are going to have it planned out. And their plan was simple yet effective. Their plan was, hey, Justin Herbert, you're winning us the game.

We're not going to run the ball. We're going to put you in shotgun because all this under center stuff when they're in double A mugs and these linebacker mugs, it doesn't make sense. So I get why they did it. It's not going to be something they do. all the time. They were 100% ready for it. And that's what makes it even more impressive because you can practice these things, but he had like five or six different tools in this toolbox that Kellynmore gave them versus zero. And that's why they said, hey, we're going to go out

and throw it 47 times. You're going to complete 40 of them, by the way, which is 85, which is like, what? Like 40 completions in an NFL game. And we're going to lean on you. And there's been a few times where Staley has just came into the quarterback room, maybe on like a Thursday or maybe even like Friday while we're in there just getting our stuff together. And he's like, hey, bro, look, here's a deal. We're going to let you win the game for us. And you're going to throw it 50 times. And there's been times that that's happened. I guarantee you that's what that's what he said to Kill him more. It was like, bro, go win it with like let Justin win it. Let our receivers win it. And they had such good answers. Like it's just so it was so simple. He had a fact like just a bubble throw.

or just a little flat route or these motion bubble, like just stuff like that. And they just kept bringing it. And they finally hit them with a big play before the end of half, which was insane in covers zero. He just kept floating back, threw it down the left sideline to Josh Palmer. And just like, first of all, Josh Palmer, like stay in bounds, bro.

Like stay in bounds. Because that was a dime. You're wasting his throws. But like that stuff, that's when you make them pay. And they just kept doing it. And sometimes you can get a little bit freaked out or not scared. Scared's not a right word. like just overwhelmed with like man they're doing it again here you go like what are we going to keep

running these same plays and are they going to and they just kept doing it and kept gashing them those bubbles that they were running with those motions how many of those are r pos where he's deciding to throw the ball none of them i mean i i think i think i think that i saw two or three out of the eight or nine they threw which were r pos and i guarantee they were just like dude just throw it out there because they got loaded box and it's just messes up the blocking scheme. But a lot of them were like, hey, here's our check for zero.

We see it, let's go. And I just thought they operated, because games I've been around like that, coincidentally, Minnesota when Mike Zimmer was the decontor, they were ate up, double a mug, double edge, it was just like, it was a bitch to go against.

Like, it was like, man, like just so much mental stamina went into the week and he's going to bring it three times. the whole week you're thinking like how to do it. So I've seen teams like in quarterbacks and specifically quarterbacks get bogged down by all the zero that, man, they had a good plan and they played fast. And that's what was most impressive to me about this performance. Is there any way to kind of discern what is different about the offense from a game like that?

Or is the defensive game plan so hyper specific that this is not a good example for maybe how the offense has changed from last year? I don't know if this is a great. example, but I mean, I've watched all their games. And I think the offense, like, I know what you're getting at. And I think the offense has changed. I feel like they've kept 40 to 50 percent of the route concepts and they've added 40 to 50 percent new route concepts. So it's a really good and everything I've heard within the building, they've simplified it to let them play fast. And boy, is it working. Because I think they're, you put it in these notes, I think they're third in like every major offensive efficiency metric category, which is absurd because they're just playing so

fast. And it's not like it's like all this brand new offense and stuff. It's just the way, I think the way it's being coached, if I'm being, if I'm being really honest. And the way that Justin is feeling about this offense and how confident, like I can tell like after the, we saw you watch the film, after the touchdown throw to Parham on fourth and one, it was after they didn't score on the Josh Palmer like first of all first of all like when when every single day for two years when we warm up I'd be catching I'd be playing catch with Justin and if we didn't have someone catching I would get I would be the one catching it okay and this would be like 20 yards away and for everyone out there like I know it's been said but like

he throws such a heavy ball and what does a heavy ball mean like it just is like thunk like it's like the ball just feels like it's coming in it's such a different velocity. And we used to call it like, no joke, like we used to call it the Herbert Cross. So on the end, I've talked about this before, on the end of an NFL ball, it looks like a cross. It's very small. And sometimes if you're catching it and you're, you're not hand catching it. Some of these receivers on the inside of their, would have a Herbert Cross because they'd get to them and he'd throw such a tight spiral and it would just indent and leave, like we used to joke around one and call it Herbert Cross. Like that's how, so that Parham one, like

you saw after how first of all you threw it a thousand miles an hour but you saw how excited he was so was he was so pumped he used to not like he used to show emotion but he used to not be like the dude is like like he's he's changed to a way to where he's just like and everything i've heard is just like such more like vocal leader like not afraid what anyone thinks i don't really care i'm going to be myself. He's comfortable in his skin. He's comfortable how he leads. He's going to make a ton of money. And that's sort of what I've seen with him. It's been really impressive, honestly. And this, again, from some of the outside looking in and just everything I'd heard about his personality is that he wants to do the right thing. He wanted to do the right thing in that

previous offense. And a lot of the time, that involves getting to a checkdown pretty quickly and making the right read. Him playing a little bit freer, a little bit looser. I was very excited about that and you've already seen the benefits of it. So last year they had 55 plays, you guys, had 55 plays of 20 plus yards, which is middle of the road in the NFL. Yeah. This year, or excuse me, 55 completions of 20 plus yards was middle of the road in the NFL with this guy who's leaving dense in human beings with the way he throws the ball.

This year already, they have 16 completions of 20 plus yards. They had 55 all of last season. That's the second highest total in the NFL. And so that version of the offense when it's not like they're going bombs away every single time they go out there. But taking the mindset to I'm going to take these whenever they're possible and I'm going to be looking for them at every opportunity. That version of this team is fun as hell to watch. And that's what we've gotten so far. I mean, like I had so much fun.

Like I watch, and I've said this before, but when I watching, when I'm watching NFL on Sundays, I have the NFL Sunday ticket like I'm sure a lot of people do. And I have a TV with like the quad box and another TV like outside in the patio with a quad box. So I have eight games out of the nine, usually early games going on. And because I've just know so much and know so many people and have such good relationships with people to Charters, that's that's the game that I'm normally watching. And the sound's always on. And just to see like how they've been playing and how well they're doing like like you could just like I, like, just really hope that this defense doesn't screw it up for them because this offense deserves like a really, really good defense. And I just don't know, I just don't know if that's the case.

And the other thing that I was going to mention is like, so we have this. We're going to talk about Kirk Cousins next. Okay, I'm just going to spill the beans. But I watched, I watched it in order. So I watched Justin. I watched Justin play. I'm like, man, like I was on the edge of my seat. even though I saw it with the sound and knew exactly what plays were going on. And I go and I watch Kirk. I'm like, oh, yeah, he's good. And like, it's just not as exciting of an offense. Really, all these, like CJ or Brock Purdy.

And I was just like, that, that to me tells me that he's having fun, Justin is, and that he's playing at a really, really high level right now. The one last thing I wanted to ask you about him is that obviously the physical traits are undeniable. We know all about them. He's unbelievably gifted. but working with him every day, being in the quarterback room with him every day, what to you sticks out about the way he sees and processes the game

when you're actually watching tape game planning with him? He's extremely smart, extremely smart. Like an introvert, everyone knows that, but when he's around guys that he trusts like the quarterback room, like, you know, you'll hear a joke that may not be super funny, but you'll laugh because it's like, oh, you told a joke, man. you told the joke and uh yeah it's just it's cool like we had such a good relationship like i've told his story before but it's been a couple couple years like when i first signed i think i was

going to my 13th year and he was going into his second i think and or third whatever yeah no he's going to his second year when i sign and so year too yeah and he just won offensive rookie of the year and played at such an insanely high level like probably the best one of the best if not the best rookie years we've ever seen in the history of the game, numbers wise. And the first thing he says is like, bro, like, I'm a huge fan, like, just of your game and how you've stuck around. And like, what, like, just wants to be coached. Like, what do you got? Like, let's, let's do this together. Like, so that, that sort of gives you a dive into, like, hey, this guy just won an office for a year. He's coming to me some career backup. Like, hey,

like, I just want to get better. Like, what do you see and help me? Like, what are we doing? And like, so that just gives you a little bit of like an insight to like how he is in the meeting room. And just like just a good dude. Like like I say this all the time and he hates it. But I'm like, this is the dude you want like your daughter to bring home to like if you were a dad. You know? Like it's just like yeah, like true all American dude, a little introverted but like funny but not really. But also like loyal and honest.

Justin Herbert is getting crushed right now for his lack of a sense of humor. Yeah. But the thing is, like, he, like, it's all fun of games. I'm sure he'll see the episode and text me. Like, you're just crushing me, man. What are you doing? But he's such a, he's such a good dude. Like, he's honestly, like, top five favorite teammates of all time for me.

The last thing I wanted to ask you, and we're spending a lot of time on this, but you have such a perspective on it, and I think it's useful. I remember talking to you before that first season that you had with the Chargers and about the offense that they were putting in for Justin. You probably don't even remember this. We talked during camp. And you were talking about just the dynamics within that offense. And in New Orleans, they have this thing called the dot meeting where you go through all the options, the previous, the night before the game.

And the quarterback gets to really put his stamp on what the game plan is. He's like, I like this or I don't like this. And the plays the quarterback likes typically are the ones the game plans are composed of. And you were talking about trying to get Justin to a place or, you know, working on this element of him speaking up and making his preferences and opinions known within the room. Do you think he ever got to that place in the two years that you guys spent together? Yeah, he did. He did toward the end of the middle of the second year. I just think that he's just so used to, I mean, he's had so many different coordinators.

I think he was so used to just like, hey, coach, just call it. Like, and he still is that way. Like, bro, just call it. Like, I'll make it work. And that, to me, is really cool because, like, you want someone to like, and there's certain plays that he'll start. I really like this one. But he's never really ever said, like, oh, I don't like this one. I don't want to run this one because I don't feel comfortable.

He just comes from the tree like, hey, just call it. Like, I'll let it rip. Like, no matter what it is, I don't really care what it is. And to me, that's like, oh, okay, cool. That, like, gives you confidence as an offensive coordinator. All right, you already spoiled this, but let's get to it. We're going to talk about Kirk Cousins. And beyond, you know, we're digging into specific games for a lot of these guys.

But I wanted to take this Kirk Cousins conversation a little bit wider. He's at a fascinating point in his career. He's 35 years old. He's set to hit free agency this spring. He's thrown for a thousand again. He's thrown the only person who has done a better job in the business of football world than you is Kurt Cousins. I think over the last two decades. He's done pretty well for himself.

He's thrown for a thousand yards in the last three games. The Vikings right now are second in the NFL and explosive play rate. At this rate, yeah. Their offense has been uneven. They've turned the ball over a lot. their running game has been awful, but they've created explosive plays in the passing game. At this rate, he is going to be an attractive potential option for a team that needs a short-term answer or a quarterback.

But I want to know what happens for the rest of this season. And this is a hypothetical I thought was interesting that we could dig into. If you're the Jets, would you make a call about Kirk Cousins right now? And if you're Kirk Cousins with his no trade clause, what would you say if the Jets asked you to come play for them for the rest of this year? I would say absolutely if I'm the Jets, I want to trade for Kirk Cousins. There's no doubt, bro.

Like, it's, so it's layers, so I'll pull it back. So I say yes, absolutely for the Jets. And for a couple reasons, because the Jets have gone all in. Everything you could possibly do to go all in for a season they did. They brought Rogers in. Obviously, everyone knows what happened with him.

They brought all that offense in. Dalvin Cook, Breece Hall's back. That defense is top five, top 10 in the league right now. It's like, I mean, when you trade for a guy like Aaron Rogers,

it's win now. It's win now or maybe next year. Like, there's no like, hey, here's like a three or four year playing because he didn't have it. Okay.

Zach Wilson is not the question. There's not the answer, I think. Not I think. I know. He's not the answer. And then so it leaves you like, who are you going to bring out on the street? Like my other show, I was like, well, Joe Flacko makes a lot of sense.

Like, at least he can like somewhat run the offense. And then I get to thinking, I'm like, well, why not Kirk Cousins? Like, it could be a win-win for him. And here's why. If you wave your no trade clause and you go to the Jets and you end up having a deep playoff run, because I think trust I mean correct me he only has one playoff win against new Orleans yeah I think that's right I think that's right yeah and if he can go in and double that up even or three make three win like if the jets go on a run they're a quarter I mean let's just be

be real like they're a quarterback away from going on a run and so if you can do that and then Kurt comes in and you're leasing them for one year. You don't have to pay him next year. Aaron's guaranteed 40. You don't have to pay him. He can be on his merry way, but it's a win-win for both. You can almost, like other than Justin Jefferson, the overall feel of the playmakers on the offensive side of the ball for the Jets are better. Run game way better. I think it's overall better. I have contention with that.

Okay. Let's hear it. The Jets offensive line is all over the place. I said playmakers. Okay, but I'm just saying. The Jets off the line is all over the place. I would agree with that. And the playmakers overall in Minnesota, Jordan Addison's been pretty good in his first three games.

T.J. Hawkinson's been really good for them since they traded for Hitchie Hockinson. And they have Justin Jefferson. So you have a passing game that I think has been pretty kind to Kirk Cousins over the last two years. No doubt. Even if the interior of the offensive line is a mess in Minnesota, which it is, you have two very good tackles, or at least above average tackles, and you have a system he knows and a set of playmakers that I think he's become very comfortable with. So if you're Kirk Cousins, there's a really good chance you throw for 5,000 yards this year,

like right in that range with how bad your defense is going to be. Is that better? You coming off a 5,000 yard season where you were really efficient, you played well, rather than you go into the Jets where you don't know the system, you don't know the coordinator, they're still trying to figure out what they want to be, your offensive line is bad and you got Garrett Wilson and maybe a couple other guys in a slightly better running game. I would say, I mean, right now, it's so funny you brought that up 5,000 yards.

He's on pace right now to throw for 6,021 yards, which is, it's not going to happen. But I saw a tweet that I was like, I had, somehow I got to work that in because that's absurd and like 51 touchdown. So he's having a hell of a year. He's thrown from almost 1,000 yards in three games. I mean, like you said, the Vikings are second explosive play rate. but I don't know it's interesting to me and it's only and I say all this is hypothetical the only way it it makes any type of sense is three or four games from now what's the Jets record are they one and five

or are they three and three somehow then you have a shot come trade deadline to be like hey we we're about 500 or a game below 500 you look at the playoff race big okay it makes sense and then the Minnesota would have to be like completely out of it for it to make it to make sense. Well, it happened probably not, but I like, I sort of love the idea of it. Like, I love the idea of like the Jets leasing Kirk Cousins to come in. You got to learn the offense. Okay, I get that. But we've seen people do it before and play well. Have three or four games in, go with it and play. I mean, I don't, but the thing is like, I don't know if you'd waive the trade clause. That's the, that's my question. That's the trick. Because if you're sitting here right now and

you're Kirk Cousins and you continue on this train that you're on or here. over the next 14 games. There's probably a team out there that's going to give you $30 million a year to play quarterback for them next year. More than that. He's 35. So?

Look, Brady played till he's 42. Do you think he gets the Derek Carr contract if he hits free agency? I would think it's, I would think something like, I would say something like three year, 140 million. Like, that's what I think it is.

Because he's 35, but you can give him dude, you can give them three more good years of ball. In quarterback play in this league, not good. He is a good player. He's got a good agent too. I'm not disagreeing with you. He does a very good agent. So Derek Carr is 32 and he got four for 150 this offseason from the Saints.

Kirk Cousins is 35. Kirk Cousins is a way better quarterback than Derek Carr. That's totally fair. So you think that's on the table. Like a $40 million a year extension is on the table for Kirk Couss. Have you seen his contracts that he's had? And it's all guaranteed. If this is the case, then why would you ever potentially screw that up by going to the Jets and potentially playing poorly or getting hurt or whatever?

Because if I'm a quarterback and I'm not going to make the playoffs, say the Vikings are one and two and six or something come trade. And they're out of it. I don't want to be a lame duck in that building. Like I know I'm not. Like, it just is like what is there for me here? Like that's what, I'm just saying like, what is there? Potentially a lot of money at the end of the road. But if you continue to play well and you're having all these yards through eight games,

like you're going to get paid regardless, bro. It's eight more, nine more games. Is it going to make a sense, make a case? I just think I just think I want them to go be like Broadway Kirk. Like I just want to see him on Broadway. Like with the dude. Could you imagine like just take your mind there for a second. Could you imagine Kurt Cousins coming out for the first game for the New York Jets,

iced out all around his neck? They're screaming, J-E-T-S, J-E-T-S, J-Jet, J-Jet, J-Jets. He throws for 350, three touchdowns, and they win. Could you imagine the Jets fans and what they would be like on, like, cloud nine or whatever? They're, like, I just imagine that whole thing. That's what I want to see. I'm just imagining him and his L-L-Bin polo that his wife picked out. heading to the press conference in New York.

That's the first place that my mind goes. I don't know, man. That guy seems to have a very nice life up there in Minnesota. They got that outdoor fire pit. It looks awesome. There's a lot of stuff that I think would probably keep me in that beautiful home in that really nice place. But that's why I'm not an NFL quarterback because I'm not wired like these guys are.

Last thing I wanted to hit on, again, just like dynamic stuff that you have a sense of that I certainly do not. it seems to me like Devante Adams is getting kind of frustrated with what is happening in Las Vegas. And understandably so. He had a concussion in week two. Jimmy threw like four more hospital balls overall against the Steelers last week. He's getting rung up like three times a game. And you could hear it in the locker room after the game.

They're just a growing sense of frustration. I think the phrase that he used was, I don't have a lot of time to wait around at this stage of my career. When you have a player like that, a receiver specifically, that you can kind of sense there's a growing sense of discontent, how do you as a quarterback or how do you as a staff manage that relationship between quarterback and playmaker when things start to devolve a little bit? It's so tricky. It's so tricky because these are grown men.

Like they're grown men with a lot of different interests and families and likes and dislikes and just everyone in the NFL. And so that's what's so difficult. And that's usually what the best teams have is they have this camaraderie. They have this closeness. They have this. And it's hard to do because everyone has families, right?

Like in college, you're with your boys all the time. It's college, it's college ball and it's school. And you're with them. You're probably in a bunch of the same classes here with them 24-7 here. In the NFL, a lot of people- Hanging out at Willie's on a Wednesday night. Yeah, Willie's on a Wednesday night, like penny pitchers or whatever.

whenever that was like it was it was yeah i mean that that just took me back you just totally lost my train thought um that's funny um but i think it's it is tricky because it's a situation where like i said they're grown men and sometimes these grown men really just just want to win and want to get paid and that's all and i'm not saying devonte adams is like that because dude I get it man like I think Derek Carr's a better quarterback than Jimmy G jimmy G wins and I think they're still trying to figure each other out um I think he's still trying to figure out the head coach I think there's so many different dynamics of the Patriot way that maybe he doesn't like maybe gets called out in team meetings like Matt patricia

used to do all the time in Detroit. That was my, that's my thing with him is like, hey, like, why are you calling? Like, so there's, there's so many different dynamics that we don't know. And I, and I think it's probably just at the end of the day, frustration leaking over into the media to maybe get him some attention, you know, to maybe say, hey, you know what? You're right, man. Like, you're right. Like, hospital balls, like four of them, like just not getting you the ball. They're not winning. Like, all that stuff. is frustrating for and it just tells me that he's just really he's really competitive and he wants to win. Have you ever been in a situation where you felt like there needed to be a conversation between

the quarterback and a receiver between the coaching staff and receiver? Not the things that gotten super bad, but just like we should take care of this before it actually turns into a problem. I've never, I mean luckily like truly I've never been a part of of something like that. I've been a part of teams that just really try to keep it private. you know, and the only time, and this isn't really a time, the only time I had any experience with something like that was Michael Thomas in New Orleans when I went there in 2017. The dude is a dog and like wanted the ball every single snap. And you, it almost got to a point where it was almost negative.

but you could also see it shining through like this dude is a dog like and when we get on the ball like he does amazing thing so it was more of a competitive juices and we never had to sit him down it but it's just like hey bro like if I was because I would take all the uh I would take all the reps in New Orleans on Wednesdays in 2017 because Drew would take bet days and if I if I didn't throw him to the ball or if more importantly if I like threw a bad ball which was probably the case more than he liked and it wasn't a Drew Breeze ball like he'd get pissed off and I'd be like dude I got I got you like don't it's okay it's all right but I think that was coming from like truly like I want the ball because I think I'm the best because he was the best of that

it's like so other than that no other times I can remember I want to be very clear about this I don't think Devante Adams is like some divaish receiver no not at all I think Devante Adams is a quintessential pro he is a very smart guy he's been in the league for a very long time he's got a lot of skins on the wall. I can just understand if you're Devante Adams, you leave Green Bay, you leave that situation to go play with your college quarterback. It's like, all right, this is great. Like, this is a new

start for me. He had a fantastic year last year. They cut the guy you went to go play with. They signed Jimmy Garapolo. So now you're in this bad situation that you chose for very different reasons and you're in an offense that even if they're throwing you the ball 20 times

is not putting you in the best possible position. And you want to be a pro and he is the ultimate pro. I agree. But you can kind of sense that this just isn't what he's signed up for. And I can understand where that's a little bit frustrating when you're at a player, when you are a player at Devante Adams's level. Yeah.

I mean, especially when you hit it right on, like when you're a player at his level, an all pro that is like a true game changer when it's not coming true for you on the field and it's not happening on the field, it can get really frustrating for sure. All right. That's all we got.

That was fun. You're right. Those were, that we weren't digging into. I told you. That was a good day. As always, guys, sincerely appreciate you listening. Please check out all the other stuff we have on the channel.

If you've not listened to this week's episode of the Rossini report with me and Diana Rossini, we talked about the Bengals decision about Joe Burrow, the Zach Wilson, future of the Jets. A lot of stuff to go check out and listen to. Prospects to Prospects to Prows with Nate and Dane is on the feed this week. Please go check that out. That has already been, that has already run. And please come back and check out our week for preview. that will be on the podcast feed on Friday.

For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys. Listen. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.