The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In The Pocket: Building around Justin Herbert, the Bears' Justin Fields vs. #1 pick question, the legend of Tommy Cutlets, and more

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

A couple of Justins are going to be among the most interesting characters this NFL offseason. First, how are the Chargers going to build around Justin Herbert to finally get the most out of him? Second, with the Bears likely to get the first overall pick in the 2024 NFL Draft, what is Justin Fields' future? Robert Mays and Chase Daniel dig into that, and plenty more, on this episode of The Athletic Football Show's In The Pocket.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me for this week's edition of In the Pocket. It is a long time NFL quarterback. Chase. Daniel, Chase, how you doing, man? Good, good, good.

We were just talking about weather. It's currently 68 and sunny in San Diego, and you said it's the coldest day of the year in Chicago. So I don't envy your position because out here, we may go to the beach later today, and it's going to be an excellent day. I understand and appreciate that sort of lifestyle. I lived in LA for five years.

It made me soft, and I didn't like how the passage of time felt. A year would end, and I would have no markers for time moving. So I would just wake up every January 1st. I can't believe another year just went by. So I feel like the life I live now is hardier. I understand time passing and can sense it. And this is a very important thing for me. I made a joke about this on the Internet earlier today.

I want to dress like a 1920s Irish fisherman as often as I can throughout the year. So this weather gives me a chance to do that. I want the thickest, heaviest cable-knit sweater I can find. It looks like you're wearing it right now. This is actually much lighter than the one I had on earlier today. I swear to God, I had a much thicker cable-in-sweather out earlier today. And I'd just be some like thick, thick pants. That's how I want to live.

And I can't do that if I'm living in L.A. So I very much can settle into the best version of myself sartorially when I live in the Midwest. So that's what I'm after. Yeah. I mean, I get it. I get it. And it has made me soft. But I think the one thing that I probably miss about living in the Midwest or even in Dallas where it can get freezing cold.

It's just the seasons, right? Like the season change here, it just seems like every day for the most part is summer or spring. And that's great. But that's why we live out here. We go take trips to Colorado. We're going to New York later. So we go to the cold spots for four or five days to get our fix. And then we're back right out here.

I don't like doing holiday stuff when it's warm. To me, that's just weird. We last couple weeks ago, we spent a Saturday. We went out and bought a real Christmas tree for the first time in our new house, got it home, put it in the stand, watered it. We had Christmas music on. We're putting the ornaments on there. I go outside.

I put up all of our garland and lights all around the house. If I was doing that when it was seven, 70 degrees outside. It would feel so weird to me. I just want to sit and be cozy and have a warm beverage of some kind on the couch with my dog with a Christmas tree in the background. And you can't do that when it's 81 degrees. It's not possible. Yeah. It sounds really cozy. And that's why we go with the fake trees. We have a couple of fake trees that we put up. And I'm just like, the tree's going to die in this heat. Like there's no reason to even. So we just made the investment. We got some fake trees. Usually my wife decorates the trees. I decorated it around the house. Now, we do have

I'm staring at it. We do have like real garland hanging over our front door. So we splurged on that and some in our house. But other than that, it's all fake. Okay. We're getting toward Christmas, and that means the NFL season is definitely coming into full view in ways both good and bad. Some teams, their season is coming together in the way that they wanted it to. Some teams are out of it.

And one team I did not expect to be in that latter group as we talk on December 13th is the Los Angeles Chargers. But here we are. News comes out yesterday. Justin Herbert is now on IR out for the season after having finger surgery. The Chargers season is over. I thought Daniel Popper, who covers the Chargers for us, did a really good job with his piece today, just talking about how the Chargers have found themselves in an unfamiliar place in the Brandon Staley era, and that's irrelevance.

Even if there have been frustrating moments, even if they've fallen short of expectation at times, they've always been in the conversation. They were either playing for their playoff lives in Week 18 against the Raiders or playing in the playoffs last year, even if it ended horribly. And now we're not even midway through December and their season is done. So in your mind, where does this Justin Herbert injury not only leave Justin Herbert? Where does this leave the state of this Los Angeles Chargers right now? Well, I mean, it's just they're going to have to start fresh, right?

Like that's the number one thing to me. They're not relevant right now. And that's the biggest thing that I think, you know, you go back and I'm like, man, that's, that's right. That was two years ago that we were playing. We just needed to tie the Raiders in Las Vegas. And that was the craziest game. I think we completed like eight fourth down or we got eight fourth down conversions in that game, some NFL record.

And then, you know, last year put it together toward the end of the year, went a lot straight. And then we go to Jacksonville, lose that crazy game. And it just, it did feel a little bit different from an outsider's perspective, but yet an insider. So I was like, I was like toe in the line on both like, okay, how do I feel about the charges going into the season? because I've been in there, I've seen it, and then try to step back, put the media cap on and

understand, okay, well, and I was sort of mixed. I thought for sure with the hire of Kellynne Moore that they were going to do better things. And that maybe finally in his third year at the helm, that Brandon Staley could fix that defense. And it just is not true at all. And it just hasn't happened and that's probably the number one thing that brandon staley's going to regret that a bunch of chargers fans regret is getting their hope up right like time and time this is different this is different it seems like it happens every single year and look with justin i think it's an interesting conversation and one that with justin i just think that he needs a little bit of a reset like obviously like when he broke his finger and he went in like to the training room

like everyone knew that he was probably done for the season. Like when you have a finger injury, like first of all, he had one on his non-throwing hand, he played through it just wasn't the same. And then he had this injury, and then he had a rib injury last year. It just seems like these little,

I say little, they're really not little injuries, but these injuries that keep mounting up, like sort of take away from his greatness. And he hasn't really been himself since 2021. So that's two full years of going through, trying to fight through injuries, trying to make it right. And I think he played at times when he was healthy in this Kellynne Moore style offense.

Like I thought he played really well. And so that to me is the biggest thing is just like take a step back. Like, look, I love Brandon Saly, but the chances of him being there next year are slim to none. And that's it's just, that's sort of the state in my opinion right now of Justin and the Chargers. And it's hard to watch because I know all those guys. I've sweated with those guys. Like I like we went to battle with those guys. We we worked through a lot of stuff in that locker room.

Just like any other team would and just like 2021 the way it ended, 2022 the way it ended with that playoff loss. And you're thinking, man, and Justin still doesn't have a playoff win. That's the biggest thing to me that going into this new, probably new new like head coaching search that you're going to have to have someone that that really gets the most out of Justin Herbert. How would you categorize the first four years of Justin Herbert's career? Are you satisfied with them?

Do you think they're disappointing from a team success perspective? All the guys that have gotten these top-of-the-market quarterback deals over the last off-season or two, guys drafted in 2020, 2021. Think about those players. Joe Burrow has been to two AFC championship games and a Super Bowl. Jalen Hertz went to the Super Bowl last year. Lamar Jackson has an MVP award. Justin Herbert's individual accolades and team accolades have never risen.

into that level. I think he's a very good quarterback, but I'm curious as somebody who has seen this up close and is looking at both him and the Chargers from a bubble outside of what I'll call like football hipster internet, which I think is sometimes too insular and we can't see beyond ourselves. You may not be the right person to ask for perspective on this because you might be too close to it. But how would you characterize both who he is as a quarterback right now and how would you put into context what the first four years have looked like when you compare it to the other so we've no-brainer given those contracts to. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a disappointment, right?

Because it's not. He won rookie in the year, 2021, had a heck of a year under first year, offense coordinator, Joe Lombardi. And then you look at the last two years. So half of his years in the NFL have been, he's been hurt. Like he was a lot more injured and hurt than people like thought in 2022. That affected his play. Of course it did.

Is that its own problem, though? In what way? if these guys are if he's going to have lingering injuries that continue to affect him is that its own issue well i would say that these i don't necessarily know if they're they're lingering in terms of like it's not like he's not work because this do works out like crazy like he's a he's a machine he's absolutely shredded up people do not appreciate that about him standing next to that guy he's an insane shape he is he really is so it's just a little bit i i call like either it like you have a guy that always gets injured like

like, okay, cool. This isn't just, he's just a little bit of bad luck. Like a finger and the two fingers in the same year. And then just the way he landed in the KC game when he, when he fractured his rib cartilage, like it didn't even look bad. Like it just looked like he landed and all of a sudden. And then that just turns into it. So I don't think that's a separate issue.

But the biggest thing with Justin. I tend to agree with you, by the way. I think this is just a stretch of bad luck, which we've seen for other guys in the past. And the thing with Justin that I just go back to is that, you know, the supporting cast around him on offense is really, really good. Now, are they going to be able to keep all those guys together? Is Quentin Johnson finally going to step up and be the guy they hope that they would?

Are they going to be able to keep Austin Echler? Are they going to be able to keep Mike Williams and Keenan Allen both? What are they going to do in the draft? I think they've solidified that offensive line for the most part. And it's really like if you look at the games where Justin's played well, it's been those games that the run game is married with the past game. He's under center, play action, deep shots down the field, taking those shots. And then look, the Lombardi offense, people want to give Lombardi a bad rap.

It was just the way teams were playing us in 2022 when we just didn't throw the ball down the field. And I think Kellen Moore sort of unlocked that. So that's a whole other issue. Like do you, first of all, does Kellen Moore, if Brandon Saley gets fired, does Kelle Moore get an interview there because of his, success with Justin in that offense. And secondly, if not, if you bring in a new head coach, do you keep Kellyn Moore? Because Kellyn Moore is, I mean, he's going to get scooped up, probably going to get some

head coaching interviews like he has the past couple of years. So it's an interesting situation over there in L.A. Let's talk about the personnel first. This is going to be a challenging offseason because of how many chips they pushed into the middle of the table for 2023. This team is currently $42 million over the 2024 salary. cap. And that's what Justin Herbert carrying a $19 million cap at next year. That's it. This huge contract, this huge extension, those big numbers aren't coming until a little bit further down

the road. I want to read some cap figures to you. Cleo Mack, $38.5 million. Joey Bosa, $36.6 million. Mike Williams, $32.4 million. Kienan Allen, $34.7 million. And there are a bunch other guys in the $15 to $20 million range. There are decisions that are going to have to be made, and I'm fascinated by what those decisions are ultimately going to look like. Do they trade one of these guys? Do they trade Joey Bosa? Do they move on from Mike Williams where they can save $20 million against the cap?

So I think that there are going to be some serious hits to some of that supporting cast next year, whether it's on offense or defense. And you talk about a reset. I'm wondering how hard of a reset this team actually hits, especially. if we get a new front office along with a new coaching staff, which I think is a possibility. Yeah, I mean, it is a possibility. And those are astronomical numbers, first of all.

Like, it just seems to me that they've kicked the can down the road. Now, will they continue to kick the can down the road? I don't think they're going to keep every single one of those players. But Keenan, like, I got to give Keenan some love. Like, he just keeps doing it. Like, he's an ageless wonder. It's, it is insane. And I would say, like, if I had to choose, like, you're going to keep Keenan

it over Mike because Mike's sort of that injury, his knee, you don't know how it is. He's sort of injury prone. Still a really good player, but I think Keenan does more for Justin in the past game. Now, that's the thing about this is like you drafted Quentin Johnson to replace Mike Williams at some point. Is that point this year? I have no idea. Like that's for, that's just so many different layers.

Like is Tom Telesco still there? Are there other changes in the front office? Does this new head coach that they bring in if they fire Staley? Does he have stay over the roster? Does he bring his own guy? So I don't know if you're going to do this like crazy hard reset, maybe like the Rams did after they won the Super Bowl, just because they couldn't afford everyone.

But the D-Line is interesting, like Kille-Mack and Joey Bosa over 30. Like I think you keep one of those guys. But like how do you get rid of Kille-Mack? Like the dude has- After the season that he just had. Yeah, I feel like there's certain ways that really good GMs, really good front offices, they maneuver the cap, right? And you want to just keep kicking some.

Do you want to do a restructure where, hey, let's just run this back, maybe one more year, figure out who we're going to keep, figure out a good nucleus because I felt like for the most part, they drafted pretty well the last couple times. So it's a fascinating, like it's probably one of the most fascinating things that I'm going to be watching this off season is one, if Saly gets fired, who gets the job? Two, does Telesco make it through? And three, what do they do to build around Justin. If they move on from Killeemak, Mike Williams, and let's say Corey Wensley, whose health is a question moving forward.

He's obviously missed most of this season with a hard issue. They're already under the cap with those three. So they can do it. They're just going to have to lose some of these big name pieces that we're talking about. And I think Mike Williams and even maybe Joey Bosa, think about how injured they've been over the last couple years, it might be time to move on from a

couple of those guys and move in a new direction. And Corey, specifically, when we talk about what this offense has been missing this season, I think his absence has been underrated. If you watch what they're doing, especially against pressure right now, they just aren't doing a great job with their pressure plan and how they're picking stuff up. And I think that they've missed him specifically in that area.

But overall, the offensive line was supposed to be a marginal strength this year compared to previous seasons. With Slater coming back, Pipkins was supposed to be healthier on the right side after a lingering injury all of last year. They were dropping Jamari Sawyer in at right guard. Zion Johnson was moving back to his. natural position at left guard, supposed to be a strength of the roster rather than a drawback, which should have been in previous years. But if you look at some of the areas where this team was

supposed to be better, everybody I talked to in training camp, everybody there, what needs to be better at offense? What needs to be better at offense? We need to be able to run the ball. We need to be able to run the ball consistently based on how teams are playing against us. That was hammered over and over and over again. Everybody in football media was obsessed with this pushing the ball down the field stuff and that was going to be the difference. Everybody in that that building was telling you how much better the run game was going to be because of Kalimor. Where do you think the Chargers rank in rushing success rate this season?

26th. 30th. Oh, even worse. The Bucks and the Jets are the only two teams worse than them. So I think right now, the plans they've tried to institute offensively over the last couple of years have not worked. And that's why, to me, you need a fairly hard reset for what that's going to look like, which brings me to the question I really wanted to ask you.

everything is on the table right now, essentially, because this could arguably be the most attractive head coaching job that comes open because of what everyone thinks about the quarterback, justifiably. So if you were picking an offense to drop Justin Herbert into, and you can have anything in the NFL that you wanted, you could steal from any system, any coordinator, who would it be? How would you reset this thing? Ben Johnson.

That's an easy one to me. And I do agree that this will be the most attractive. For a lot of reasons, the main thing being the quarterback, I think they have good pieces defensively, just not the right scheme. Okay. And so I think that you bring in, and we've talked about this before, and I think you bring in like an offensive, innovative coach. Because you have to, after you give the contract to what Justin does,

like Justin is your franchise, you have to make sure that he is, happy he is playing well in that system and just the creativity the use of motion the use of different personnel groups what he's able to do what he's done with jared golf could you imagine like like i loved golf and golf's playing well struggled as of late but could you imagine what he do with jesson herbert like the in in those weapons like like you would say for the most part other than the running backs like in the offensive line for detroit that skill players in l.a are better than the skill players that are in Detroit. I'm pushing back on this. I don't think that the

receiver room other than I'm long. I don't think the Chargers have this great skill position, collection of skill position talent without Mike Williams on the field. And we haven't been able to count on him at all. We just said he might not be on the roster next year. If you look at who he's throwing the ball to right now, we got Alex Erickson out there and Jalen

Geithen and Gerald Everett and Stone's smart. I think that we have this idea of what the Chargers are when everything, everyone is on the field and everything is clicking and running on all cylinders. And I just don't think that they've been that for a little while. So I don't think the Lions are great by any stretch, but I don't think the Chargers have the super team of offensive skill position talent the way we've thought about them in the past.

Yeah. That's fair. But I would say like I imagine with the quarterbacking and the skill group that they could put together on offense with Quentin Johnson, say Quentin Johnson and Keenan and Mike come back and you get Echler back. Like that's a good group. You got to get a tight in there. But I would love to see, like, a Ben Johnson paired with, like, an old head defensive coordinator that, like, just is, like, matter of a fact. We're doing a couple things on defense. We're not going to be this crazy blitzing defense.

We're not going to just play cover two or cover four. Like, here's what we're going to do. Like, I know it'll never happen, but I just go back to Vic Fangio. Like, I just have enjoyed my time so much with Vic and learned so much about Vic and just how steady he is as a coach. and what he's been able to do. And they paid him handsomely to go down in Miami. And you can tell they're playing a lot better this year than they have in past years.

But yeah, like a Ben, give me like a Ben Johnson mixed with an old head defensive coordinator that just like gets it. And I think that if you surround Justin with enough of the right pieces and you have an organizational reset, it really is like a fascinating because they could go a lot of different ways. They could go just for a straight up like full-on. Rebuild.

Okay, everyone is fired and let's just start new. But that's, I don't know. I mean, I just go back to like, I think Tom Tolesco does a great job. And does he get another head coach higher? That's what it comes down to. It'd be a lot of them, man. He's gotten more leeway and a lot more leash than a lot of general managers around the NFL have with some of the missteps that they've made.

From the coaching side of it, I get Ben Johnson. Why don't you try this one on? What about Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen? Yeah. I mean, what Dennis has done, he's not going to be, he's not getting fired after one year. I don't know.

It's been two years. It's been two years. If they don't win the division this year, I would not be surprised if you're going to win the division at eight and nine. Watch it. They're going to get into the playoffs at eight and nine. That would be, that'd be the guy I would throw in there.

It's like the guy who's got a ton of experience. He's had a lot of success as a defensive coordinator. Here's what I will say offensive system-wise. And I came to this yesterday when I was rewatching the Chargers Broncos game and just getting so frustrated watching them through a quick game with this guy who has a bazooka attached to his right arm over and over and over again. I want to see him in the 2021 through 2003 Los Angeles Rams offense where we're not, I don't want to see another three step drop for the next 20 years of Justin Herbert's career. I don't. I just don't care about it anymore. And if you look at the numbers, I was looking at sports info solutions yesterday because I was like, am I crazy?

Matthew Stafford has the lowest number of one or three-step drop-dropbacks in the NFL among full-time starting quarterbacks this year. When you have a quarterback like that, I want him to either be pushing the ball down the field or something off of play action. I don't need. They're heavy play action, right? Hank, I don't need it. So that's what I want. And I think Ben Johnson is smart enough and malleable enough where he's going to incorporate a lot of, because he doesn't come from one schematic background, right? It's a guy who's just.

though, if you watch it, like 21 through 20, they're pretty similar in how they are always jet sweep motion, they're heavy. I bet if you, I don't know, we didn't probably come prepared for this, but I know for the fact that the Rams since they're by have been like the heaviest under center play action team in the NFL.

I got to imagine that L.A. I mean, golf is under center a lot. Like, I think that's what Justin is. I think so too. And if you're in the gun, can it be a more heavy seven step dropback concepts from the gun sort of offense? Like we've seen from the Rams over the last couple of years, because I'm sure that people who look at Justin Herbert and his record and only listen to all of us who keep saying,

promise you guys, he really is really good. I swear to God, he's a really good quarterback. It reminds me a little bit, and I think Matthew Stafford was more mired in the middle during his time in Detroit than people consider Justin Herbert, who a lot of people are putting as a top five, six quarterback. But it's similar to me. It's like, how can this guy with all this talent be a part of these forgettable teams? At a certain point, shouldn't his offenses be better than this if he's super talented. But you look at, even with talented quarterbacks, you look at how much circumstances matter and how much context matters.

And if you put them in the right spot with a couple tweaks here and there, we can see different versions of them. And that's why I don't think we need wholesale changes to all of the offensive personnel or what Justin Herbert is, but just little tiny tweaks of the dial to make sure that we're getting everything we can out of him. And I think that sort of offense is the best route to make. that happen. Yeah, and I think you hit it right on. Like a lot of times people that don't understand NFL offenses, they just think that or teams like, we just need to throw everything out the window. We need to start from scratch. No, you don't. You don't need to start from scratch. It sees little bitty details, even from like, hey, under center play action, like a little bit wider play action

snap point than like inside zone. Like just something that you can get feedback from Justin and say, I feel really comfortable doing this. Okay, well, this is, hey, if I'm under center, I don't want to neck it to my left. I just want to naked to my right and I want to set up. Or maybe I like going to my left because it switches up what defenses do. All the little bitty intricacies of the game, you switch a couple of those with a couple personnel changes.

Like, you're going to get the most out of Herbert. Ben Johnson, Dennis Allen, and I'm calling Mike Munchack and just being like, Hey, you want like $3 million. I know you're semi-retired, but it's warm out here. It's nice out here. Here's like $3 million. And I know the chargers don't typically operate like that.

But looking at how underwhelming the performance of this year's offensive line has been, when you compare it to the hopes we had for this group coming in, that to me is also a very important hire for however they build this next staff. But we can talk about this forever. There's a lot of other things we want to get to. Another quarterback who's facing a pretty uncertain future here is Justin Fields, who finds himself in a fascinating situation, both over the final four games of this season and then the next four to five months. I want to start with resetting where you think Justin Fields is right now

since returning from injury against Detroit a few weeks ago. What have you seen from him that's maybe kind of caused you to rethink how you see him compared to other quarterbacks in the league? well one they're winning right like that's the biggest thing they're winning um number two they want two games in a row that's a lot that's a lot for us i mean and yeah that that is in in as crazy as it seems i don't mean to give you extra hope because i know you're a huge beers fan but you guys are one game out of the playoff race i know and you still own the one and the five pick like best of both worlds right there dude that's amazing that's why i don't care if they were to make the playoffs and stumble in and they're picking 18th i don't that's not the ideal circumstance it's

probably not worth it. But owning the number one pick no matter what happens with the bear's pick is a very nice place for all of this to land. Yeah. And I think with that like, okay, so he's winning. He's not taking the sacks that he was early in his career or even the first few games of the year. He's getting the ball out. He has a plan for every single play. And when that whole soundbite came out of like, oh, you know, Justin, why aren't you pulling? Like, he's like the coaching. And he had to come, like that whole crazy like, how people thought he was throwing coaching under the coaching under the bus. But in reality, I think that he was thinking too much. He was being overcoached.

A guy like this that makes plays with his legs, that makes plays with his feet. Like you can just see Luke Getzzi finally saying, okay, it clicked. Like, here's what we need to do with Justin, get the QB run game going. Let's give him half field reads or pure progression reads. To me, that has changed drastically in this offense. And he's a lot better. What were they doing? What were they doing in terms of progressions that you think was overloading him?

Well, I think there's two things that I think may have overloaded him. And I say may, because this just looks like he was operating slower than what he does now with this new sort of schematic scheme they're running. One was it was a heavy first really six games of last year until the New England game. And then really the first couple games of this year, it was a heavy play action under center shot game. And I'm just like, that's not what he does. Like having to choose, having to trust that he can throw the ball deep enough and accurately enough. Not that he can't do it, but the fact that it is like you have this guy, this extremely talented football player under center and just tell him to throw, if it's not there, throw a chip. Like, no, that that change.

They're not doing that quite anymore. And I did it a couple times last game and he wide open guys. Like, imagine that. And then the second thing was in shotgun. what they were having them do is read coverages post-snap. And all quarterbacks do it. But like, hey, here's your single high zone side. Here's your quarters side.

And with so many things going on on defense, like, and what teams were doing, like, especially at Minnesota game, they're blitzing all the time. Like, it's just hard for a quarterback to operate when you, even if you second-guess your decision to work the right side. And all of a sudden, there's a side that you work, say you work the quarters-beater side.

and for some reason they rotate late at single high, it's not good, just wasn't finding a checkdown quick enough. To me, that's what was going on. And to me, you watch, and maybe there's a few plays like that every game. But most of the past game is, hey, get on the edge, like a gun play action, which I think is really good, an RPO, and then like picking stick sides is what we call it. So like, hey, just read left to right or read, hey, high to low, flood in the side of the field. All this has changed, and it's made him,

in my opinion, play more confident. And when he's played more confident, you're starting to see success, man. You're starting to see him use his legs. You're starting to see him do these things that when they drafted him that they hoped that he would do. It's funny that you say all this because I think that departure from pick aside based on the coverage to pure progression reads,

that's a league-wide thing that's happening. I think a lot of teams around the league are saying, fuck the coverage because we don't know what it is. That's the nature of NFL defense at this point, is that defenses are trying to make it so much more difficult to pinpoint that stuff pre-and-post snap that I think smart teams are saying, I don't care what the coverage is.

We got all-purpose plays for whatever you're trotting out there. So I think that's a lot, a lot of young quarterbacks to play a little bit freer across the league, not just Justin Fields. And I'm with you. I think that we've seen an uptaking confidence, just the swagger he's played with over the last three weeks when he's doing that dance after the slide in the first Detroit game.

I love seeing that. When you think about how beaten down he's appeared at times during his career, that's been really encouraging. All of that being said, there's still stuff that worries me. There is still stuff that worries me this deep into his career. If you go back and really watch that game against the Lions last week, there's some really exciting plays. The guy is unbelievably talented. He is a supernova of physical ability.

But the timing still concerns me. he's laid on stuff he's holding the ball a little a tick too long way too many times and not i'm not talking about one two three times a game i'm talking eight to ten plays last game where he can just let it rip a little bit quicker it isn't he is an imperfect quarterback and for the bears that's why i land on the side of you have a clean break just take the clean break if you're going to deal with an imperfect quarterback prospect deal with the one you're picking on a rookie contract that is arguably a better prospect than Justin Fields. You have a free chance to turn the page. For them, I think that makes sense. For other teams that don't have that clean break opportunity

and need someone at quarterback, I think he is still a very interesting proposition. Teams that have painted themselves into a corner a little bit at the position. Would you feel this way if the Bears went to the playoffs and somehow some way want a playoff game? Would you feel the exact same way with the turnaround that Justin has done. You sort of paused. No, I would. You sort of paused there. I would feel this way.

If it was, if they were continuing, if they won a bunch more games, to me, it's not about the end result. To me, it's about the process of how we're getting there. If they're winning a lot more games where he's making three, four, five plays as an athlete every single game, the defense is playing at a really high level, which it is, I'm using that as a reason to say, what if we dropped a more consistent better quarterback into this situation with this defense. Then what could we be?

Not, eh, this is good enough. Let's continue to play this out. I mean, yeah, that makes sense. And honestly, like I've said it before. I'll say it again. Like, I'm so glad I'm not Ryan Poles because it's such an interesting predicament he's in. I say predicament. Look, you got the first and the fifth pick.

Like, are we, and this is not, this is just like rhetorical for viewers. Are we having this question and conversation if the bears don't pick one? Probably not. They are. No, yeah, and I know, I know that. But that's also like got to play into it in terms of like thinking, like, how do you know that Caleb Williams or Drake May is going to pan out? Are you going to get the next C.J. Stroud? You don't know that. You don't.

But you don't know Justin Fields is going to pan out either. Yeah. And at least with those guys, you have four cheap years and a huge runway to eventually make that decision. You have to make the decision on Justin Fields' fifth year option after this year. I don't know if they, so that's exactly, I don't know if they pick up the fifth year option. And they still might draft a quarterback at one and have him sit under Justin. Like all these scenarios are in place. I don't think that's likely going to happen.

But there's a possibility that you could have two of these quarterbacks at a very unique number, right? Like rookies, you have Justin Fields, not on his fifth year option, low salary. and then you have a Caleb Williams or a Drake May, first round pick for that, pretty low salary too. So say you have $25 million between two of these guys and eventually if you can get some trade compensation, like probably going to take it.

But I still think that what Justin is doing right now, maybe not for the Bears. Maybe not for the Bears. He's playing himself into another contract, bro. So that's why I don't, I wouldn't hang on to him. That's why I wouldn't. There are two things that I would weigh with the Keep Justin,

on the roster with the number one pick. One, I'm sure he has big fans in that locker room. The style of play, what he has brought to that team, he's played his ass off. Removing that Justin faction and new quarterback faction, potential tension in the building, I would do that if given the chance, because I do think that's worth considering. Two, I think he has real trade value. So if he's sitting on your bench, if he keeps playing like this and keeps showing some of these flashes, I think there's a chance that his highest peak value is at the end of this season.

Sam Darnold went for a two and a four in the following draft when he got traded to Carolina. Sam Darnold, during his time as a starter with the Jets, was the worst starting quarterback in the NFL. Truly, if you look at every single metric, he was the worst starter, and he went for a two and a four. Justin Fields, if you were to pick up his 50-year option, and if you traded for him, I think it might make sense to do that. It would be two years, 24 million in 2025. It's like two million a base salary next year, 22 a base salary the following year. That's $12 million over two years. That is dirt cheap for a quarterback with potential if you are the acquiring team.

I would take that swing if I were one of these teams that didn't stumble their way into the number one overall pick like the Bears did. Just because the Bears shouldn't keep him in my mind doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile option for other teams that don't have this sort of option. All right. My pushback on that a little bit is like what happens if you take a lot? take the number one pick and whoever it is, right? It doesn't matter. It's a quarterback. And you, during the draft, trade Justin, because I agree with you, his trade value, right? Like, at the end of this year, the way he's playing, it's going to be at his highest. You're probably going to get something similar. I'm glad you said the darn old thing because I think that's very similar for what you would get, dirt cheap.

But what happens in the year of the backup quarterback this year? What happens if your number one guy gets hurt? You're back to square zero as a Chicago Bears fan. When you've built up the, the roster around you. We can play what ifs forever, but this is a, this is a legit question with how many quarterbacks are there. So like, I think teams, I do think teams, maybe not the bears, I think teams will continue, especially after this year when you've seen over a third of the quarterbacks get hurt and injured and big name guys, they're going to put more of an emphasis on backup quarterback. And with Justin's contract without picking up the fifth year option, you have a pretty cheap guy as a backup quarterback. Forget all this faction. You're a grown man in the locker

room. Dude, deal with it. Here's what we're doing. That's what I would tell the guys if I'm the front office because you get the best of both worlds. You draft one. You keep Justin. You have a legitimate backup quarterback. If you do think that you're going to win right away with a rookie quarterback a la Houston Texans, CJ Stroud. This is where our difference in perspective becomes really important. You're looking at this like a lifetime backup quarterback. I'm looking at as a football internet nerd who's seeing the second and fourth round picks is being like, I want that. I would just rather, I'd rather have the picks than the security at backup quarterback.

I just, I always come back to the Tom Moore thing. It's like, if the starter goes down, we're fucked and we don't practice fucked. Like I would much rather live in that world with the picks, but that's where I'm at. So in this little hypothetical that we're talking about where Justin Fields gets traded, who do you think makes the most sense for Justin Fields and softsies if he's going to get moved, which I think he's going to? I mean, an offense similar to what a Jalen Hertz is running, right? And you look at Indy, well, Indy's not doing it.

They got Anthony Richardson, right? Like, that's not happening. So, I mean, honestly, I haven't even thought about that. But it has to be a team. First of all, if you're trading for a Justin Fields, you have to be willing to completely, like if you're trading for him and what you're getting up and what you're paying, he's your guy, at least for the next year or two. So you've got to build an offense that fits his skill set.

And his skill set is what he's been doing as of late. And that is the like half field reads that we're talking about, the RPO type thing. Like I could just imagine if you put and teach Justin Fields what Jalen Hertz's offense and what they've been doing in Philly and you run that offense, I think he could be a superstar. Like I do think that there's a little bit.

bit of, I don't think it's being talked about enough. It's like, if Justin is in the right fit with the right guys around him, I think he could be special. Now, I'm not saying a top 10 quarterback in the league. I don't know. Maybe. But I think you put guys around him and you build and true offense around because this offense was not built for Justin.

And that's the craziest thing about it is like, you saw the first six or seven games of the year until the New England game. last year and I'm like what are you like what are we doing and all of a sudden he now switches the offense and he roll they roll like on offense at least the rest of year and then you look at you have the same offensive coordinator same quarterback you look at the first two or three games of this year you do the exact same thing like i can't see game was hard to watch bro like i'm like what are we doing like that's not just and all of a sudden you switch it up again in the back-to-back games before he was injured he goes off and he then he plays like

So if you just build around them, I think there's something to it that you could have special around them. I don't disagree. And again, I think for other teams that aren't being handed the number one overall pick in the draft, there is an appeal to that sort of path and that sort of timeline. There are a group of teams that I would keep coming back to when having this discussion. Okay. The team from a football perspective, from an offensive structure perspective, from a need perspective, that to me makes the most sense in a vacuum is Atlanta. You drop him into that office. offense with the quarterback run game, they've shown a willingness to adopt with the right guy. When they had Marcus Marioada, the play action shots they took off of it, just from a pure football perspective in a vacuum, not something I think will happen. I think Atlanta makes the most sense. The other teams I would mention, if Washington doesn't put themselves in a position to draft quarterback in this year's draft, which they might.

We'll see how high Jaden Daniels ultimately goes. That would be sweet. He goes to Washington. Well, we'll see if the enemy is there. Right? So that's the other question is who's going to be in charge of the Washington football franchise. Washington is one of them. The Raiders, okay? If the Raiders aren't in position to draft the quarterback in this year's draft, you've got Aide O'Connell as a potential cheap option that they can just keep rolling with, but they're a team that might be in the

quarterback market and a team that I think it's particularly interesting to me because they're definitely going to be looking for a new offensive coordinator this year is the Steelers. If the Steelers decide, hey, we did the Kenny Pins. ticket thing, even if we did put him in the best position, we still think this isn't our best path forward. Are they a team that could look to take a big swing and try to go get somebody like this? And I have, by the way, I've got an interesting name for you if you're picking a coordinator to do this with. Yeah, who? Greg Roman. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, what he did with Lamar was insane. Right. So you get to a place where he's overstayed his welcome when you're trying to take the next

step as an offense, but what if you're trying to take your first step as an offense with this type of quarterback? Is he somebody that would be worth calling as you're trying to build that up at the beginning? I mean, yeah, absolutely. I love that name. See, you, you did a bunch of this research, but I like, I like every one of those. I just did that. That just came to me in the last 10 seconds. There was no research that went into that. I mean, honestly, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're an NFL franchise and you, like, there's probably going to be, I mean, on average, there's seven to 10 new quarterbacks a year. Like just trying to switch.

So if you're one of those seven teams maybe this year that need a quarterback or thinking about a quarterback, like Fields is probably an upgrade, right? And so I think you're definitely kicking the tires and honestly going to Chicago like, hey, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? We want to trade before it gets too high. So they're going to have multiple suitors for it.

Last question I want to ask you about the Bears because I want your perspective on this. If it keeps going like this, let's say they finish seven and 10. The defense keeps playing at a top five. clip independent of the Justin Fields conversation would you keep mad eberflous yeah i would i would i think i'm not the right person to ask for that because iber was my defensive coordinator at missouri that's right that's right that's right yep he was there when i was there so i'm loyal to him man because he he made such an impact of my life and i just think that he's proven enough and shown enough especially as of late like you got to you got to keep rolling with you hired him for a reason don't let

one bad season get you down and move on and there's going to be some candidate it's out there that might spark your interest. But I think at the end of the day, like the Bears need an Iber flus. Like a CEO defensive guy to keep you together. He's one of the best coaches I've ever seen it. Like keeping a locker room, talking to a locker room, keeping these guys focus. So I'm going to say yes. I think he's shown a lot in keeping this thing going in the right direction,

especially on that side of the ball. I would be open to a revamp on the offensive side if they pick a quarterback first overall. I think that is something that would be worth exploring. Let's stick with the backup quarterback conversations here. And it's been hard to avoid them this year because every single week, there's like a disorienting set of backup quarterback performances that make me wonder what the hell is going on. Let's start with a game a lot of people watched on Monday night. And that is Tommy DeVito leading the Giants to a win over the Packers, which we all expected,

obviously. In the span of like three weeks, the Giants went from not letting this guy throw the ball past the line of scrimmage during an NFL game to a play. where he played a real role in them knocking off a potential playoff team. So I just want to put this stretch, these last couple games and Monday night's performance, into context a little bit. How real is this what we're seeing from Tommy DeVito right now? Well, it's a great story.

I mean, it really is the fact he's living with his parents, the fact that his agent's kissing his dad, his dad's kissing his agent. I would love to live with my parents right now. That sounds awesome. Gosh, right? Just go and have like mom make you dinner every night. Not for a long time. But just for like a week, it sounds great.

Just for like one small stretch. Yeah. And so like when you turn on the tape, it's a little bit of a different story. Now he has galvanized that fan base. He's galvanized that locker room. He's won coaches over. And rightfully so because I'm a huge fan of it. It's become a huge story as it should.

Like Tommy Cutlets is in New York. And anytime you have. have a interesting New York quarterback. An interesting Italian New York quarterback. It's important to mention. Yeah. Like, Deino Jones and him could not be more different. Like, Deinojones is very monotone. Just like no emotion. This dude is like, he's enjoying it. And his agent, okay, two days ago, was on every talk show in America. And he's not hiding. You don't say. Yeah. And he's not hiding it. That's the thing. He's like, yeah, we're trying to take

advantage of this opportunity. Like, bravo. dude like bravo this guy probably his whole life is made because he was seen on national television kissing his dad um okay so get back to the actual play when you turn on the film like i broke down i think they they won in washington right a couple weeks or three weeks ago and i thought he played like three touchdowns that he played really well in that game and he turned on the last few games and it's it's been okay like it like yeah he made some plays and when he needed to make some plays and the two minute drive that route by 17 was just so dirty on the corner route like that guy has real juice by the way the dude is getting him back he has really given a lift to that

offense with the ball in his hands as a route runner i wasn't sure what he was going to be coming out Kentucky, that one year is undersized, but he makes a difference when he's on the field for them. And him missing all the time that he has, you notice that. We're talking about Wondell Robinson, by the way. Yeah, Wondell, I mean, he's had a, he's had a heck of a past couple games. They try to get him the ball a lot more. And I think, like, look, he's doing what backup, and really, he was a third string quarterback to start the year. He's doing what you want backup quarterbacks to do early in the year. Like, don't lose the game. Right. So he's managing it really, well and then he's unlocking like his legs like i didn't know he could run like that like some of that

zone read is stayed in that dion jones was had and then he's just sort of made the throws that he needed to make now a couple of times he got off like first or second progressions when they were open that's just gonna like i don't fault him for that like you just got to get experience on that but it's not this like crazy like oh my gosh he's like this amazing quarterback with this strong arm he's just sort of like like playing with swagger, playing with energy, and that sometimes needs to happen. When you're so used to like this sleepy old offense in New York that you just don't have any like juice, he's bringing the team juice and that shouldn't be discounted for. Like he still is playing really well.

And obviously like the coaching staff last week was like, hey, we're not going with Tyrod. We're going with him. I thought that was surprising. But rightfully so because the way he's, yeah. But the way he's played to me, that said more than like Kafka and Daibol what they're doing. I don't know. It was an interesting situation, but when you turn on the tape, it's good.

It's not great. The biggest thing he did on Monday that it was a departure from what this team has dealt with for a lot of the season is that he was mitigating pressure in the pocket with his mobility. I think they had 13 pressures the Packers did during that game. He did not get sacked one time. That being said, he's gotten sacked a lot in some of these other games. So it's not as if this has been a consistent thing for them.

But on Monday, his ability to get out of some of those situations and then what he did as a runner is a huge reason that they want. All of that being said, think this is a fun story. Think that he has given them a little bit of juice in some of these areas. I'm not sure when this thing turns back into a pumpkin, but I think it might happen sooner about him later. Well, like, yeah, I'm glad you said it, not me. Look, I love the story, love everything about it.

And honestly, like, maybe did a little bit of disservice, and he can't help the way he plays on that, but like playing on Monday night football and balling out the Troy and all those guys are loving you up, like left and right. They have like production packages. So it just grew his legend, right, in New York and nationally. And so when it does turn around, I think it put a little bit of maybe undue pressure on him to perform a certain way. now that's great. Now I'm sure they've got some endorsement stuff from it. Awesome. But yeah, I tend to agree with what you said.

What I will say, though, is that this has caused me for, I think, the third time in the last six months to sit back and reevaluate the way I'm looking at this giant staff. The fact that they're putting together a functional NFL offense with a bunch of backup offensive linemen, a bunch of not starting caliber offensive linemen, and their third string quarterback and they're doing this, I don't know how to process. what the Brian Dable Mike Kafka experience has been like. Because last year, they did an unbelievable job piecing together that offense with Daniel Jones, a subpar offensive line, and zero weapons into a borderline top 10 unit according to every single efficiency metric you want to look at and a team that won a playoff game. Then you look at the first half of this season and they could not function offensively.

They could not field an NFL offense. And I know the line was a mess. I know that there are a lot of extenuating circumstances, but I'm sitting there thinking, what is this? And then Tommy DeVito comes in there and he's playing at a level that makes me rethink it again, where it's like, well, look at what they're getting out of Tommy DeVito. So my head has just been spinning around as I try to place how I'm supposed to feel about this staff and what they get out of their quarterbacks.

Yeah, I mean, it is an interesting road travel starting back from last year with Dave on Kafka and what they've been able to put on the field. Because last year they won a bunch of close games, right? It could have been the complete opposite. But they didn't got to the playoffs. And then this year, like you said, like that, I just remember that Dallas game. That first game was just like,

oh my gosh. And that had something to do with Dallas's defense, right? But then what he just was. That was just down. That would happen every single week for the first month of the year. That's the game that sticks out, though, most like for me. And then, yeah, it just is like, I think the help of Wando Robinson. I think that offensive line starting to get.

And if you look offensively, like truly break the breakdown of the film, which I do, they're not running concepts that are like foreign. Like I'm seeing very like, I hate to use the word vanilla, but I'm going to use the word vanilla. Vanilla schemes offensively just to get him open. Like they ran Hank, right? It's two deep curls and a guy over the ball at least three or four different times. And they've runs, so it's not like they're, he's just doing the normal. This is talking about like, DeVito. He's doing the normal better than most.

And so he's not like doing this like crazy throw the ball down. Like he's hitting a corner route in that big play to Wondell to get him into field ball range. Like, yeah, you should hit a, like he's making the plays that he should, but he's galvanized a franchise and really a whole fan base and the nation with it too, which has been, really cool to see. It's been a fun story. Somehow, Tommy Cutlitz is playing out of his mind right now and still might not be the best backup quarterback story in the league because Jake Browning has not just been a feel-good story.

Jake Browning in his first two starts, or in his last two starts, has been one of the most efficient quarterbacks in the NFL, okay? He's completing 82% of his passes over the last two weeks. He is second in EPA per dropback among quarterbacks who started the last two games. What is happening here? And can this keep going where we think the Tommy DeVito thing might run out of gas? I do think this can keep going because I trust what Zach Taylor and that offensive staff have done the past two games and what they've shown to sort of pivot from what Joe Burrow with an injury did to Joe Burrow getting back and a healthy to now what Jake Browning does. Because I think there was just a little bit of a feeling out phase between Zach Taylor and

Jake Browning on like, hey, what does Jake Browning do well? Like, let's go back, let's study some tape in Washington. Let's go back and really look at the first couple games that he's played, maybe some preseason tape. And they're just putting him in a position to succeed. It also helps that you have Jamar Chase, Chase Brown, like Joe makes like all these guys, T. Higgins, like, it helps. It helps tremendously. And I think what Jake is doing is he's doing some things that are expected, but also making the big throws in the big situations that maybe I didn't expect he would. Like, Totally different story than Tommy Cutlets, right? Like, they're pushing the ball down the field.

He's getting more comfortable in that scheme. He's had five to six weeks as the starting quarterback in practice. I can't tell you how much of a difference that makes in practice. When you're with the center, when you're with the starting receivers, when you're finally throwing to him, you're getting the timing down. And then that whole thing that we talk about all the time is quarterback confidence, right? He's built his confidence up and to show, hey, I can play on this league. I can play at a high level.

and I'm going to continue to play at a high level. It's been fascinating watching the recipe of their offense in a post-Joe Burrow world. And some of these numbers are influenced by Burrow being hurt over the first month, but even after the buy, when he came back and looked healthier in that Arizona game, the Bengals were using play action in about 23% of their dropbacks. That's middle of the league, essentially middle of the pack, much higher than it used to be under Joe Burrow. So you saw the next stage and the next bit of evolution from who the Ben's

angles wanted to be. With Jake Browning in, they've cranked the dial. So over the last two weeks, he has used play action of 33% of his dropbacks, which is the second highest rate in the NFL. They are doing so much more with play action and the screen game than they ever did with Burrow. And that staff, again, deserves a lot of credit for saying, okay, we have this guy, we have this set of skill position players. How are we going to win the football game with this quarterback and the players that we have now. And it's not running the same offense we used to run with Joe, because what they did with Burrow is they catered it to how he wanted to play. Now it's catered to maximum quarterback efficiency when you don't have a supercomputer back there playing the position.

And they've done such an incredible job of tailoring it that way. It's funny because some of these teams that rely on play action and live off of it, they're pushing the ball down the field as a result. The Bengals are averaging six air yards per attempt on play action. It's all little tiny slash and dash stuff over the middle of the field, but it's working extremely well. So I do think even if the runway isn't a full season or isn't going to be, Jake Browning isn't always going to look like this no matter where he lands in his career, I think that this version of it for at least the next month might be able to continue at like 70% of this pace.

That would not be crazy to me. No, no, not at all. And I was I mean, count me a surprise. Like the Jacksonville game that he played was just like once in a lifetime, like going down potentially beating the number, like they could have been the number one C Jacksonville if they would have won. Like all that stuff, super high completion percentage.

And he comes back and does it again. Not to that rate, but I'm just like, man, okay, there's something to this guy. There's a reason that he's sat behind, watch Joe Burrow, that he's learned this offense.

And he's just taking advantage of the opportunity. Right. Like that's what I like. to remind people is like when you have an opportunity as a backup quarterback, especially a backup quarterback, most position, most important position in sports, you better seize that moment, man. Like, you better seize that opportunity because one, you know, you've been waiting your whole life for this moment.

Two, it's going to set you up for some really nice paydays down the road. And three, it's going to let you stick in the league, like all that stuff. And I just think that's the story to me is like, man, it's an awesome story. But like, it's just another like story that is not talked about enough. It's like you're just seizing the moment. Like people tend to forget like it's a backup quarterback. You don't get to play. You don't even get to practice with the ones.

You don't get to practice the offense. And so when I see a guy like a Tommy DeVito or a Jake Browning have that success in them seizing the moment, like it makes me excited. Jake Browning is an exclusive. Rights Free Agent after this season. He's been somebody that was struggling to hang on the back end of rosters. I encourage you guys to go listen to the conversation that Zach Kiefer had with Paul Deiner Jr. who covers the Bengals for us on Kiefer and the beats earlier this week. Going through Jake Browning's story, he was calling his old college coaches ready to go be a coach after getting cut by the Vikings in 2021. He was staring down the mortality of his career. Jake Browning to this point has made $1.7 million playing professional football. He came out in 2019. Based on this, he may make $1.7 million next year playing professional football somewhere, whether it be in Cincinnati or somewhere else.

And for somebody like that, that is life-changing amount of money. He could double his career earnings in a year. Well, even the original Tinder next year is going to be like $2.5 million, which I can imagine that they would do. So he's going to make more than that, which is crazy because for sure they're going to keep on to them. Now, yeah, the question is like, does a team have an offer sheet that they want sign for him, probably not. But like he still's going to make a ton of money, have another year,

and then go be a free agent and hopefully make a lot of money. The last question I want to ask you about this, why do you think some backups fizzle out after a couple of strong performances to start off when we see them? Josh Dobbs being a good recent example. The Vikings are going to Nicomolans after Josh Dobbs was one of the stories of the season for a good chunk here. And I don't necessarily blame them based on the way that he's played over the last couple games. So why does this happen where some backup quarterbacks just run out of magic after three or four starts. Yeah, I think the biggest thing is that when a backup quarterback goes in and they haven't practiced or they haven't really practiced the game plan because they don't get any reps here in practice

and maybe it started gets hurt or a short week and they go in and ball out a la Josh Dobbs. You tend to not think and just play. And you just throw to the open guy. Yeah, you know the offense. Yeah, you know this. there's no really reps to lean your head on and be like, hey, this is what it should feel like, but it's not. So you're not overthinking.

You're just going out there and play. And at least people I've been around and with the Dobbs thing that I think could probably make a little bit of an issue as you continue to play more games, your amount of plays that you've run continue to go up. So your mind thinks, hey, this is a certain way it should be. if that makes sense. And when it isn't that way, sometimes you can overthink it. And when you overthink it, then you're not playing. And you're not playing in that free state. If that makes it, it's hard. It's really hard to explain. But I hope that makes sense. Like you almost like, at least for me,

like I know when I'd have a full week of practice or a couple weeks of practice together back to back with the ones, I would almost overthink things. And rather to just let it fly. Like, yes, you, you have to repair all this stuff. But there's also this thing of like clouding your judgment and clouding your mind. And I think for the most part, when backups do fizzle out, that's probably one of the few reasons that that is. Last backup quarterback thing I wanted to hit here. Joe Flacco has really lifted the Browns. Their offense looks different with him back there than it has with pretty much everyone not named to Sean Watson so far this year. What has stood out to you about the way that Joe Flacco has kind of lifted this offense over the last couple weeks.

Well, just the fact that he's 38 years old slinging the pill, man. Like the arm strength looks like it's gotten stronger. Like the, but obviously like the number one thing is like the arm strength, under center play action shots at Cefancy is, is dialing up that run game. Like that's what's crazy to me. And I know it's in the rundown, but I'm going to say like, how, how was he not, how was he not part of the Jets call list when Aaron? Roger's got hurt. Forget about what he's doing with the Browns. Like the Jets went all in and Flacco knows

people in that in that he was there last year in and yeah it's a new office coordinator. I know you want a guy that knows the offense. Flaco's pretty smart. Like he can obviously can learn an offense. So the fact that he was sitting on the couch and we've been talking about it on another podcast to do since Aaron Rogers got hurt like why is Joe Flacco not on the team and the Browns release this little thing on Twitter of like flacco hyping him up. I'm like dude, you've been there two weeks and you're already like it's a good story bro. But they're using that under center play action. He's he's making a few dumb mistakes. And even him in like the mic up, he's like, all right, I need to stop making those mistakes because he hasn't played.

Right. He's only practiced two full weeks. And I just think that like this gives Cleveland like real juice. Like if their defense can travel on the road and play somewhat decent because they're amazing at home. Like they got a shot to get in this thing. Your experience with this is a little bit different because Bree's had almost like a degenerative shoulder condition. So at a certain point when he was getting up into his late 30s and early 40s, it was going to fall off a cliff. We all heard the story a couple weeks ago. I was throwing with his left hand now. That's a slightly different consideration.

But with some of these other guys who just have generational arms, what Joe Flacco does, by the way. Joe Flacco was a first round pick 15 years ago. It's important to remember. That guy can sling it. How long does this last? Like if Marino, if you were like throwing the ball around with Marino in the yard right now, Do you think that he could just still rip it at like 55, however old he is? Probably.

Yeah, probably. I mean, it's all like you got to, first of all, like, Flacco's been like super healthy. He's gotten a lot of time off, a lot of rest. And with guys like arms like that, like I don't think you lose it,

dude. Like I've been around some like dudes that are 50 and still slinging it. So like Brady could still sling it, right? Like I think you saw like one of those things that is, is the rare era when you knew the time was ending in Denver was Peyton Manning. Like his arm got like you could tell and you could see it go. down the hill. Same with Breeze a little bit. Like you could see, but with Flacco, like,

I think he could play a couple more years and still like sling. I mean, because you just look and they're throwing the ball. They're chunking the ball. And he is just like perfect deep ball. Pretty. So pretty. Yeah. It's been so much more interesting and just engaging to watch that offense with him back there.

He makes them so much more dangerous come playoff time, in my opinion, just because the volatility with him pushing the ball like that combined with that defense, it just becomes a more real combination to make. in terms of what they could potentially do in a playoff game with him back there. All right, that is all we've got. We have a couple other conversations I want to get to. They're going to hit next week that we've been putting off because I'm getting too deep into the Justin Fields and Justin Herbert parts of this. But as always, guys, sincerely appreciate everyone.

Listen, sincerely appreciate the time. Please check out everything else that is happening on the athletic football show feed this week. Like I mentioned, great episode of Kiefer in the Beats. Dana Nate doing prospects to pros. Draft season's starting to ramp up now with the tankathons. situation coming into kind of crystallizing a little bit, talking about where these guys are going to land, guys are declaring for the draft. So plenty of stuff to dig into there. Also wanted to mention, please check out the best of the athletic from 2023. That article drops next week on the athletic.

There will be a hub for all of it that includes stories and podcast that is going live December 18th next week. So please be on the lookout for that and everything else that we've got coming on the feed over the next week or so. As always, appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.