The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In The Pocket: Comparing CJ Stroud & Bryce Young + was the Bills firing warranted?

Episode Date: November 16, 2023

Chase Daniel returns for this version of In The Pocket to shed some light on the Ken Dorsey firing in Buffalo. Was it warranted? Plus, does the Panthers offense have a chance to turn things around and save jobs in Carolina with Bryce Young under center? What are the biggest differences between the success CJ Stroud is having in Houston, versus the lack of success Bryce is having with the Panthers? All that and more on this edition of In The Pocket.Follow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielFollow Robert on Twitter: @RobertMaysSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Find your bright spot this season, with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp dot com slash MAYS today to get 10% off your first month.Right now, you can try LinkedIn Sales Navigator and get a sixty-day free trial at LinkedIn dot com slash MAYS23. That is LinkedIn dot com slash MAYS23 for a 60-day free trial. Let LinkedIn Sales Navigator help you sell like a superstar today! Just go to LinkedIn dot com slash MAYS23 and get started. New to Etsy? Use the code HOLIDAY10 for ten percent off your first purchase. That’s code HOLIDAY10. Maximum discount value of fifty dollars. Expires December 31st, 2023. See terms at Etsy dot com slash terms. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me for this week's edition of In the Pocket, it is long time NFL quarterback Chase. Daniel, Chase, how you doing? Good, good, man. It's, you know, I heard across the country,

the weather's sort of hit or miss and out here in sunny San Diego, usually, you know, we're recording as 3.30 right now, and it is like pitch black, raining, like the world is ending type stuff. So it's a little bit different for us, San Diegoans or whatever you want to call it. I guess I would consider myself a California now. But it's been a weird weather day. So yeah, I'm ready to go, though. Ready to talk ball.

We are recording this a little bit later, and it's dark right now at 5.30 p.m. in Chicago right now. So that's why I'm a little bit thrown off because I'm used to recording this in the afternoon sunshine. But we had a lot of great stuff to get to. We had some notable performances from younger quarterbacks this week. And I want to talk about some context. surrounding that. But before we dig into any of that, we had some news this week. The bills come out on Tuesday morning and fire offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey after what

was a heartbreaking loss to the Broncos drops Buffalo down to five and five on the outside looking in on the playoff picture. And we've talked about this a little bit with Diana when the news happened. But I wanted to talk with you sort of about the nuts and bolts that may have led to this or the nuts and bolts that maybe don't justify a move like this. So just first and foremost, when this happened, when it came down when you heard the news, what was your initial reaction? Well, the initial reaction was a little bit of shock because this just doesn't seem like a Buffalo Bills team

that you like to make moves during the season. And then all of a sudden, 10 games in, Leslie Fraser's not there who was their D-Corner last year, right? And now Gendorsi's not there, who was their offensive coordinator for the past two years. And so it's been a little bit, like I was working out, actually, and it came through on my phone and somebody texted me. I go, wait, what? Because when I watched the game, I don't watch it as a fan. Okay, I watch it as like I'm in the room, game planning,

and I'm trying to go through the plays that I see on how I would read it, if that makes sense. So it's a little bit weird. And honestly, it's very mentally taxing for me. so I can't really I can't really like enjoy it because I'm always you know not a critical eye but I'm always like okay well all right I see what he did there and it's just like it takes me like 30 seconds and I'm actually watch it you're actively watching it the entire time I understand that I don't I don't have the capacity to do that but I understand a tiny fraction of what that feels like it well and then also it's like not only that now this was a standalone game but think about when you got eight early game windows and you got four on each screen you're just like oh like you know so it's anyway so anyway yeah I was working out and And I was in shock because when I was watching the game, I didn't think other than the turnovers, things looked that bad. Like just watching it live, right?

Like obviously, obviously you can't turn the ball over and win. And that has been, without a doubt, the biggest problem of Josh Allen's entire career. This is nothing new. Since he came in the league in 2018, he leads the league in turnovers, and it's by a high margin. It's not even close. And so I went in and I just rewatched it. I literally like 20 minutes ago. And I thought the exact same thing watching it.

It didn't look that bad. Like it didn't look like they were out of sync. I mean, of course there were some past protection issues early in the game. I mean, the fumble on the first play of the game and almost interception on the second play of the game. I was like, oh man, like this is not a good start. Now, I do take that the Denver Broncos defense, okay, they had five takeaways, they had five takeaways against, you know, the chiefs, and then they had four. They have nine takeaways in the last two games.

So maybe they found something there. But at the end of the day, and I say all this, I just think that Sean McDermott needed somebody to fall on the sword. And that somebody, unfortunately, was Dorsey. And I don't think it was, I don't think the move was warranted, if that makes sense. Like watching them play, I don't think that the move was warranted at all. When this stuff happens, this stuff typically happens with teams that are embarrassing. Teams that are truly like the worst performing teams in the NFL, where you need to pull the plug in season because that's how bad it's got.

Right now, today, the Buffalo Bill. Bill's rank third in offensive DVOA so far this year. And if you want to split it up into halves, let's say the first five games and the second five games, over the last five games, they lead the NFL in offensive success rate. The amount of their plays that are successful, they are number one. And I know that that's been parroted by a bunch of different people all week that, man, look at all these metrics about the bill's offense. How could you possibly fire a guy that is overseeing something like this?

I want to go a little bit deeper than that because I do think that maybe there are some underlying issues that are work digging into. But that's why it was so surprising for me because they have not dropped to the level of a team that typically makes a decision like this. Usually you fire a guy 10 weeks into the year because you just can't go on any longer at this pace. And that's not how the bills feel. It just felt like like you said, somebody needs to kind of take the brunt of them being this far away from the team that they want to be. in the standings and performance-wise. So I get it. If you look at some of the numbers a little bit deeper,

we can dig into this. So right now, everything has stayed pretty much consistent over the last five weeks compared to the first five. The one thing that's changed is the amount of turnovers that are happening. They are turning the ball over

on the highest percentage of their drives in the NFL. It's been 22% over the last five weeks. But my question is, turnover variance and a couple weird fumbles, is that the reason you should fire your offensive coordinator when your offense is otherwise playing at least okay. Even if you have some issues with it, even if it's a little bit uneven,

it still feels like this is a drastic decision when you look at the overall results of what they've put on the field so far this year. I think it definitely wasn't warranted. And I think the reason was, because if you look at turnovers, right, like how often is coaching that has to do with the turnovers? Zero.

It's like a guy fumbles. Okay. Is that the coach's fault? No. All right. Maybe if it wasn't coached correctly high in time. Okay, but you can't, at the end of the day, it's players, not plays. And so if the plays weren't working, which certainly they were based on the numbers you just said,

their number one in offense in that category, the last five games, then to fire a guy like this, it makes me believe that it's a much deeper issue. It's not just the on the field turnovers. I mean a fifth of their drives the last five games you're telling me 22% or turnover worth like that's wild to me. That's a very high number. That is no way shape or form what you want to do. But you can only do so much as a coach. And so when you look at this maybe six weeks, if we go back six weeks like in the future, okay? And we go back and look at this time right now. I guarantee you you won't sit there and say, oh, you know, Joe Brady made this office.

offense so much better. I think that might happen, though, because I think the turnovers may normalize, and they may just, they may start turning the ball over at an average rate. Nothing else may change. And then because they got better, everyone will say, well, they fired Ken Dorsey. That was what they needed to do when in reality, it was probably always going to get better because the turnover is to a certain extent. The decision making and him pushing the ball into tight windows, that can get him in trouble

sometimes. But the fumbles and so much of the stuff. we've seen over the last couple weeks, it's random shit. It's stuff that will not continue to happen. So I absolutely can see a world where they go on a run. They start playing great on offense. And everyone says, oh, man, they needed to make the change when in reality, that has nothing to do with why they're playing better. And that's what I tend to say. It's like, like anyone else that's looking out there and not digging in deep into the numbers like we are, they're going to say that. But they could do this with Dorsey at the helm. Like, that's what I don't understand. And honestly, you

could sort of like we should have all like of course you saw it to right when this news hit twitter and x like it was the meme of dorsey just slam him in the the surface down and freaking out or like oh we should have known then that you know he was going to be fired and it was a funny meme but like i just think at the end of the day i don't necessarily think it's hard to tell now that he's fired but i don't necessarily think that him and shot mcdermott saw maybe eye to eye on maybe strategy or game planning or use of personnel or, you know, under, like, because when I did watch the first half, and the first half was really when they struggled, they got a little bit better throughout the game.

There was no under center runs. There was no under center play action. And then finally they were just like, hand the damn ball off. Like let Murray, let Cook eat. And they ran for probably, I don't even know how many yards were. I didn't check the stats, but they ran for a lot of yards. Like Cook was over 100. Tavis Murray had a hell.

of a game. And it's like, that's what Josh Allen needs when he's in a little bit of a funk. Like the interception Josh threw, the first one tipped. Okay. Like, all right. Like, it was open and should have, like, there were six drop passes in the game. Like, you're going to put that on Josh? Like, people don't understand, like the completion. Okay, there was, I counted six. And the out route to the field, he was late. Footwork was awful. He hitched one too many times. He left it inside, bad throw. Okay. So one bad throw and then a slipped handoff. Like, people, because I got it. He had the other one that should have been picked off on the second drive that was not, where the whitebacker should have had it. He took some chances in that game he didn't need to, but I think people are going to look at that game as emblematic of Josh Allen's season to this point. It's not. He has the lowest turnover-worthy play rate of his career. Everyone has that Jets game deep in their minds where he threw three interceptions and everyone's going to have this game in their minds. And that's understandable. In between those two games, he actually has not put the ball in harm's way that often. He's throwing a couple picks, but that's going to happen when you have his play style. So I think overall, again, I don't know if what happened

on Monday night was necessarily representative of what the bill's offense has been to that point. And I think you're making a decision based on a game and even if it's a couple games where the randomness of some of these turnovers is probably going to come back to Earth a little bit. Yeah. And I just at the end of the day, someone had to fall on the sword, right? Like is it, is it Sean McDermott trying to be like, hey, like I'm trying to save my job. I'm not saying he's going to get fired or anything like that. But like, is it that moves like, hey, Joe Brady, we saw what he could do in college, had a little bit of,

He's, and that's the thing about Joe Brady. It's like, people don't understand. He got fired halfway through the season, okay, by rule. And they didn't see eye to eye. So is this going to be his chance? Like that's lost in this whole thing because his name, the last two years, has been in head coaching cycles. Like he's gotten a ton of interviews.

And I could see something where, hey, he gets a shot here and they go on a little run. They make a deep run on the playoffs. It's like, okay, you know, quarterback coach, now you're OC. All right, we're going to be full time. He's going to get back into the head coaching cycle. And yeah, I mean, look, and what I was going to say is I got a lot of people like, hey, it's Josh Allenbroke. And is Josh Allenbroken? I'm like, no. In fact, and I said exactly what you said, he's playing some of the best ball in his career. And I even think the Jets game, minus those three turnovers, like he played pretty dang good against a really good defense.

And so the fact of the matter is they're five and five. They're in full on freak out mode in Buffalo right now. because this was a team. If you talked about them at the beginning of the season, it was, they were in the top three conversation in the AFC. Like it was just, that's just how it was. And then you look and you start doing it. And it's deeper on this offense on the struggle that's like, hey, why didn't Stefan Diggs get in the ball?

Why don't you have a run game? Why don't you have an, like, and so all this, I expect to change. And at the end of the day, like you said, the turnovers will normalize. And they might, they could go on a run here, although they had like the toughest schedule. Well, that's the problem is the schedule they're staring down as part of this issue is that they have such an uphill battle with the teams that they're playing. But there's so many things that maybe you could tweak some things here and there, right?

Josh is up near the top of the league in the amount of RPO attempts he has this season. If you have a quarterback who's maybe trying to push it a little bit too hard, maybe you just line up and run the ball a little more often. Take that out of his hands. Stuff like that. But I don't think those are wholesale changes. I think those are small tweaks that you can make over the course of the year. And to Dorsey's credit, they had been doing a lot more of that stuff during his tenure than they had toward the end of the Brian Dable time there. They had under center runs.

They were using heavier personnel more often. I think they were trying to figure out some of this stuff. They had gone to less under center play action over the last couple of games compared to what they did earlier in the season. But they still had that element of the offense. I feel like they were poking and prodding for some answers. And it just is unfortunate that the turnover's got so bad over the last couple weeks that ultimately, I think that's what does him in. Yeah. And I think what you're going to see in Joe Brady, I mean, like, I was with him for two years in the Saints when he was an offensive, like quality control guy, like when he was first starting out. And he was always, always like a bright mind, innovative offense. So it's not like you're going to see wholesale changes within the offense with him.

Because let's face it, you're 10 weeks in. You are who you are. But you're. will see maybe a different strategy of how you implement it, on how you coach it, on how maybe Josh Allen has a little bit more say in the offense and what he likes and what he feels comfortable with. They're going to go back and fully self-scout. I guarantee you they're already doing it right now. The past in games, hey, what are we really good at? What are our weaknesses? Okay, let's just do more of what we're really good at. We got something in Murray and Cook. Let's lean on that. And they're playing decent defense too. But like you said, it's the schedule from hell almost coming up.

I mean, it's like the third toughest schedule to finish a year. So you're going to learn a lot about the Buffalo Bills here in the next six or seven weeks. Was there anything about the structure of the passing game that you felt was lacking or you felt was putting too much on the quarterback? Because there are some people who really study this team closely, you know, Bill's fans, people that are looking at this offense just saying, you know, there are so many times where there's nothing coming back into his vision when he has to come off his first read. There's so many things outside the numbers.

you're putting so much on the players to win some of these one-on-ones and so much on your quarterback in terms of the difficulty of this stuff. Do you feel like there are certain things that they can lean into a little bit more to maybe make things a little bit easier on Josh specifically? Yeah, what I'd like to see him do, and they did a little bit of it, not a ton. It's just more pure progression plays. And what does that mean? It just means, hey, Josh, look, here if he's open, throw it.

If not throw to this guy, if not take off and run. Like, Josh isn't one to sit in the pocket and get through three progressions. He's never play like that. And quite honestly, that's what. what his stinger is, it's one, two, go. And when he goes, it's either really good and he's running and they're, they're balling out, or two, he's running to throw the football and to buy time. And that's what makes him special, in my opinion. He's never going to be a guy that sits back there and goes, one, two, three, four, right? So I would almost, like, sort of what they're doing

in Denver right now. It's like, hey, hey, Russ, one, two, take off. Like, like, simplify it for the guy. And what I did see is a little bit more of, like, hey, this side, uh, on, you. in two by two formation, you're going to throw this versus cover two. This side in two by two, you're going to throw on cover three. You're going to get to a man. That's too much thinking for Josh at the line.

Like he didn't, and I did see a lot of that, and I get it. But that's sort of what good offenses do. You have to be able to trust your quarterback. Hey, you can't just give them a pure progression on everything because everything's not going to just be open. But I do think that there needs to be more under center play action shots,

and that's when you can get the pure progressions. Now, quick game, I get it. Give me a quarter's answer on this side. Give me a cover three answer on this side. And if it's man, then I can check to something. Like, yeah, you can live on that 20% of your game plan. But when you do it a little bit more than that, it just puts a lot on your plate. And that's sometimes, honestly, like, that's sometimes with RPO's because there's a lot that goes in on a quarterback's plate for an RPO.

It's like, and honestly, Josh had a couple zone re-team misread in this game and just kept them. And so if you're doing zone reads where the quarterback's having to read, you're doing RPO's where the quarterback's having to read an end and then a second level defender and then decide, hey, am I throwing this slant or the outside slant? There's almost such thing as like there's no plays off mentally for a quarterback and people are thinking, well, he should be on every play. Well, there's something to be just said, hey, under center, just hand the ball off and go naked fake. Like, give me a break.

Like truly. And there's none of that for Josh right now. It's so funny that you said that because that's exactly what I was going to say is that a lot of coaches I've talked to specifically that kind of come from that, you know, Kubiak, Stefansky kind of under center world. The thought is, I just want to give him a couple of plays off every once in a while. And that was in regard to Kyler Murray coming into this season with Arizona. It's that if you looked at what he had to do within that old offense for the Cardinals,

he's on every single play. At the very least, if you just line up under center or run the ball or even use some play action where it's defined, it's defined. You don't have to worry about every single. everything that you have to read out. It's like, all right, I'm going to get to the top of my drop. It's one, it's two, it's checked down. And they only ran three under center play action plays in that game,

and they didn't use a lot of under center running the ball. So we'll see what happens. The other thing, I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole on this. We spent a lot of time on it. But the footwork thing that you mentioned is interesting, because I remember talking to Joe Brady a couple summers ago and discussing kind of the, some of the light bulb moments when coming into that staff

and how they do things. And I've always joked about this, that a lot of the bill's offense is no rules, just vibes. And when you watch some of his footwork within that offense, that's how it is. Like he's just kind of feeling stuff out and playing a little bit off schedule. And that's a feature, not a bug, of what they do offensively. So I wonder if maybe if you change the coordinator, you have somebody come in who maybe hadn't come from that world with Daible when they were putting all of this stuff in.

Is there a path where maybe you tighten some of that stuff up? a little bit. Maybe you change that just a little bit to maybe play a little bit more on time in control than they've done so far because I think it lends to Josh's play style and his skill set, but I think it also can make him feel a little unsettled at times. Yeah, and I think that's probably the number one thing that Brady's going to have to do. And it's not like, hey, you're going to go in there and have some serious conversation with Josh Allen because Josh Allen is still, in my opinion, top five quarterback in the league. I said he was the MVP of the league last week, and I believed it.

Yeah, yeah, there you go. There you go. And so it's like, it's not like he's broken. It's just like, hey, you might have a little chat. Hey, man, like, what do you like to do? All right, let's just clean this footwork up a little bit. Like, let's get you more quick game. Let's get you more pure progression.

Let's get you on the move. Like, go take off, bro, because when you use your legs, we're better offense. All those subtle changes can add up to be a big explosion of offense, depending on who you're playing and how the game planning aspect. That's what a lot of people understand. The game planning aspect of it, could completely change on who's involved with saying, okay, we have 50 plays on the whiteboard for the Denver Broncos, say last week,

we need to get this 50 down to 25, okay? You got 10 quick game. You got three or four, five step, you got three or four, seven step. You got 12 play action. You got some screens. And that's the game plan. And then we'll get on the third down later. So I think that is going to change.

And that's going to be interesting to see. It's going to be impossible to know unless some reporter gets in and figures it out. But I think that's the biggest change you'll see as who's involved in the game planning and play design process. I will say that watching them, and this is just my untrained eye watching them, it kind of does feel like that a little bit. Like it doesn't feel quite as cohesive and kind of building on itself as some of the other really good offenses that we see in the league. Yeah, I would say that that is. Correct. It's a little bit random. It's a little bit picking from everything. And like, like I said, that can get in the quarterback's head a lot. It's like, hey, tell me who we are. And let's just, let's major in that. Like a couple years ago, when we were struggling running the football in LA, it was like, okay, on by week, we said, hey, we're doing way too much stuff. Let's run duo and let's run gap schemes and major in that 10 different ways rather than like inside zone, outside zone, gap scheme, duo, like all these things. And sometimes like,

simple is better. And like everyone you said, keep it simple, stupid. Like that's the truth. Like you don't have to do all this crazy stuff. Just execute what you have. Again, I think that there are better days ahead

for the bills offensively just by sheer luck. I don't know if we can say that about the next team that we're going to talk about here. Another team that really struggled in prime time last week was the Carolina Panthers, who could not move the ball at all against a bear's team that has not exactly lit the world. on fire this year. A couple things, a couple of reasons I wanted to dig into this. One,

this is the number one pick we're talking about here that's quarterback in this offense. And it's been a while since we took a hard look at him on this show at all. And two, and talking to Diana Rossini this week, it sure sounds like this staff could be in trouble if things don't turn around here over the second half of the season. So let's try to get to some of the root issues here. If you're trying to pinpoint what you see as wrong with the current Panthers offense, where would you start? A couple things, and we can go on in detail on them. Number one, the pass pro is, I mean, it's not great.

Like, it just is what it is. The receiver room, there's zero separation down the field. Okay, so that's hard to throw. And the bear's just lined up and played man. And there's no run after catch. Look, I think Thielen's an awesome guy, and I think he's a great receiver. But if he's your number one,

then like you've got to have separation because you're only as good as your receivers. If your receivers aren't getting like literally I haven't seen the bears play that much man coverage in my entire life. Like I just watched it. It's pure disrespect. And that's all it is. And honestly, but it's even, what's even more disrespectful is not the man coverage that they played.

It's the quarters coverage they played where you can press the guys and those safeties were eight yards like there was wild to watch to to run past us. And I was just like, oh my gosh. And then that just really was the root issue. And I don't love, I don't love. Actually, I really don't love his footwork. And the way he drops and it's just so casual, so nonchalant. He's never on time.

He's never ready to throw. The timing needs to be sped up. And so all of those issues, I would say, are sort of the root cause. But the biggest one for me is a separation down the field. Like there's just, there's none. There's none. Like you mentioned, every single member of that secondary is squatting less than 10 yards off the line of scrimmage. When you watch it from the All-22, that's where the real disrespect comes in.

You're absolutely right. And because you can just sit on everything. So the windows that they have to throw the ball into are non-existent. And one of the issues that I see, and I wonder if you agree with this or not, he doesn't want to throw the ball into tight windows. Like whether he's just not confident in his arm strength. or what he's seeing, he's not letting it rip even when there are some windows to throw the ball into. The fact that he's not assertive enough right now to drive the ball into some of those windows

when most of the time they're non-existent anyway, it's all started to compound in my mind. Like it's all coming from different directions to kind of lead to what you're seeing right now. Yeah, and I think that's true. And I think it's sort of what I said as well because the tight windows for the Panthers, are a lot tighter than most teams. And so I don't fault the guy for saying, hey, I really don't want to throw an interception here

just in case I'm not pinpoint accurate. It's not like, so I don't think he doesn't, he trusts himself. That's not the issue. The issue for me is those receivers not getting separation. And that's true. I mean,

it is, it's like there was very rarely anything open against the bears. He hit that deep corner route on timing and rhythm, got smoke doing. it and that was the best throw of the day and then otherwise it was one of the only times they pushed the ball down the field the entire game and it was it was a really good concept it was like hey a corner route to hold a shorter corner out to hold the corner and then since that quarter safety's inside leverage you have a deep pile on deep corner which he threw it was perfect 40 yard game and um it's also

it's just it's just really hard to play quarterback to when you know your foot your foot works a little off, but then if you're, it's like you hit your third step and the rush is already on you. So like that, they're not playing super well at front. And then another thing too, like overarching theme, I think, for me is like this team personnel wise was built how Matt Ruhle wanted them to be built, not how Frank Reich wanted them to be built. And so they were a shotgun inside zone team. Now they're now they're like a huge spread amount college offense and they weren't, they're not built for that. You look at them and that's why they don't have any receivers.

And we said this in our, in our production meeting and I'll say it here on air. It's like, I don't know if you put C.J. Stroud in this Panthers' offense, he's not doing just as bad. Or if you put Bryce Young in C.J.'s offense, that he's not bawling.

And so that to me is like, that might say more about really the Panthers offense than anything. The fact that you have no respect or no acknowledgement from the defense that you can push the ball down the field, kind of it short-circuits the offense from the start. That's a huge issue. But the other aspects to it, beyond not having enough speed, they don't have enough change-ups in terms of how they're deploying their personnel. Right now, the only team that uses 11 personnel on a higher percentage of their snaps than the Panthers is the Rams. Okay?

The team that's in third is the Bengals. So I want to use those two teams as examples of why sometimes you can live in that world and why sometimes you can't. The Rams can live in 11 personnel because if you watched a Rams football game, the amount of motion and crazy shit that you're seeing before the snap is insane. And they have some juice now with 2-2 out well. So even if they don't have a ton of overall team speed or didn't in previous years when it was Woods and Cup and kind of those kind of guys and they're still shredding teams is because the amount of motion and the amount of. of bells and whistles you see within the offense. That's one. The Bengals are right behind the Panthers. Another way that you can live with this sort of static personnel is having the best

players. Having the best players tends to help. The Bengals do. The Panthers don't. And now, even the Bengals who are playing 11 personnel in about 80% of their snaps right now, they're starting to use so much more motion. They're starting to change up the ways that they align guys. So the fact that the Panthers are one of the most static teams in the league in terms

of personnel. And they're near the bottom of the league with play action percentage, most in percentage, everything. If you're going to be at a talent deficit in your receiver room, you better be at a schematic advantage. And that is certainly not the case for them right now. That's such a good point.

And I'm so glad you brought that up because, I mean, it's exactly what I said. It's a college offense. Two by two, three by one static. It's exactly what in like the point you brought up was the 11 personnel. And it's just like,

all right, we're just going to sit out there. And do you, like, do you know how hard it is to play quarterback like that? You know what's pressure it puts on you, especially the number one pick, especially as a rookie,

to go out and run an offense. It's just like, okay, and they're not even doing like bunch formations or stack formations every once in a while. But like at least that you give the defense. Like so it'll be interesting to see, and it's interesting to hear Dana talk about like,

you know, because I just don't know. It's like you, you give the coach one year. You give Frank Wright, I'm a big Frank Wright guy. Like, I believe in him. And you give the coach one year and through 10 games, you're already, it's already being talked about like, hey, if you don't pick it up, like, that's not fair because he came in

and he had, he has Matt Ruhl's personnel. Like, you give him one year to do that? So I just think that's absurd. And I do think that people are crushing. I mean, they're crushing Bryce Young. I don't think you can put this on him. Like, yeah, he's got to play better. He's got to trust it a little.

They're just not a good team. They're not a good team. Like, bottom line, that has no indication of who you are or who you can be as a starting quarterback in this league. I'm trying to pull all of this apart, and it's not easy to do. I was talking to somebody with the Colts last week, and we were discussing this. And I was like, man, it just feels like if this keeps going downhill with Frank

and Carolina and he gets canned, everyone's going to remember the last couple years and just be like, hey, was Frank Reich ever good? I remember watching the 2020 Colts when Philip Rivers was there and how much fun I had watching that offense. Death by a million meshes and they're just doing so much cool stuff and you watch that 2018 offense and I know Andrew Luck was in it and that helps. But I think the design of it and how aggressive they were and the ways they were using Ty Y Hilton and again, the personnel was better, but I still think that it was a well coordinated offense. And I don't want to have this kind of retrofitted revisionist history about the fact that Frank Reich was never good at this because I don't think that is the case.

But I just don't know what has happened over the last couple years because where he has been in charge, two straight seasons, the guys brought into that situation have become the worst versions of themselves. The fact that this offensive line last year in Carolina with mostly the same personnel, you know, they've had some injuries, you know, Bradley, Austin Corbett was heard at the beginning of the year, et cetera. They've still been trying to figure out their left guard situation. Chandler's Avalho. The rookie's going to step back in there this week.

But for the most part, enough of the pieces have been the same where you were getting good play out of this group under James Camp in last year, and now it's awful. And then you look, like you said in Houston. Chris Strasser, their offensive line coach from the Colts last year, is now with the Texans. The Texans' offensive line, every single guy on that line is the best version of themselves right now. So I just feel like there are so many examples over the last.

couple years of the people under Frank Reich's tutelage within their offenses just getting worse or becoming lesser versions of themselves. And that's scary. Like if that's the trajectory of this thing, then I can understand being a little bit worried if you're David Tepper and especially if you're a Panthers fan. Yeah, no, that makes sense. That makes sense. Everything you say that makes sense. And, you know, when Frank took this job, I remember I was on a mountain in Aspen, Colorado, and I got, I got called. I got called. I got called. Well, it wasn't any. fancy. It was just like my wife and I and I didn't even want to go because it was too expensive. But I was on the mountain in Aspen. I got called by a bunch of different people because they knew

that I was with them in Philly and like him and I have a relationship and they were just like, hey, what do you think? And I was like, it's a home run higher. Like Frank, like it's a home run higher. And it's just really unfortunate to where it's gotten to be. And who knows, who knows how the season's going to end. And when he gave away the play calling, I didn't think it was the right idea or the right move for him because at the end of the day he's the mind like he is like in those meetings in the game like he is the game player he is the game play caller that's where in my opinion frank shines as the head coach and so it's going to be interesting to see these next uh you know seven games or so to see what can happen because at the end of the day i think teper needs to see

our number one pick be successful you know they're not going to make the playoffs they're not going to win a, and not even have to win games. It's just like, you got to see this guy get on a trajectory or start to get on a trajectory where he can be good. And the stuff with Bryce is fixable. Like, like, honestly, if I, like, if I was the quarterback coach down there, McCown, like, and you're not going to do it during the season, but I would completely change his footwork. Like, I think it is. It just for, maybe I'm so old school, but like, do you not see it to, Like the just slow backpedal It is very, very methodical

He catches it, he catches it pauses and then the slow, so like he's never really ready to throw. And so I don't know, it's just, I'd like to speed him up a little bit if I was, if I was calling place down here in Carolina. I think a lot of people are ready to just throw him out and I think one of the problems with that is that people are comparing him to C.J. Stroud.

I've done this for long enough where there's not a chance in hell I'm going to do that. I was ready to just dispose of Tua. I was like, it's over. Like that guy, he can't play. But when you see circumstances radically change for guys, you can see a radically different version of who they are as quarterbacks. So I think there's still, there's no reason to take it that far

because of how bad the circumstances are right now. I will say, I do think that his limitations are pretty easy to see. Like when you watch the way that CJs, Stroud can operate in messy pockets and get throws off in traffic. I don't think Bryce is just ever going to be able to do that because of his stature and because of not only his size, but some of the other physical limitations. The only other guy who has played quarterback in the NFL in recent memory that is that small as Kyle Murray, Kyle Murray is an unbelievably gifted athlete and an unbelievably gifted thrower. Kyle Murray has an explosive arm. Those were never

Bryce Young's strengths. So I think that you see some of those physical limitations show up, but we've seen quarterbacks with physical limitations have success in the NFL when placed in the right circumstances. And I just think these circumstances are so wrong that like everyone else within that offense, you're seeing the worst version of him. Yeah. I mean, I totally agree.

And I think at the end of the day, what you look at when you look at Bryce Young is he is a pocket passer. He's really good when he has time to diagnose. That was what I heard from him is like really smart, really fast processor, can understand coverage. Great team guy. And obviously like played for Alabama, never got touched in the pocket. Well, it's a different game here in the NFL. And so his game is not translating very well behind this type of offensive line without these receivers that can get separation. But I do think if you put him in it on a, offense that allows him to shine, just like the Tua thing, like when you were ready to write off Tua, or if you put him in an offense like a C.J. Stroud type offense or something that

can actually, there's meaning behind it. You have stuff on tape so guys and quarters coverage aren't playing eight yards off. Like, I think that, because I mean, let's be honest, like, he's the number one pick and you're not giving up on him anytime soon. So you have to build around him. And I just don't think they're built that well at all around him. His pocket movement, movement in Alabama, it was always impressive in his instincts and his feel, but I don't, you haven't been able to see that. And I wonder if that uptick in athleticism, in size, that does exist, right? Like, I know he comes from the SEC, but it's a different sort of world. Like, watching him try to play against Montes Sweat, it's a perfect example.

They're leaving some of those open side boots to Montes Sweat side. Montes, he can't throw over him. Like, he just can't do it. And so I do think that that's real. Like even though he played in the SEC, the change in athleticism and size and speed from the guys that he's playing against a front now is just different. And I think that he hasn't been able to kind of extend and be a playmaker in that same way at this level. So again, I think that there are plenty of reasons why we've seen this version of him, but there are still limitations that are shining even more now because of what's surrounding him. The last thing I wanted to ask you, bring this up, you played for Frank in Carolina or in Philly. Does this resemble anything that you would expect from a Frank Reich offense?

And if not, why? Yeah, that's a good question. You know, when Frank was building that offense with Doug Peterson in Philly, it was a lot of what Doug wanted to do. And I think that Frank got Doug to open up even more on the aspect of RPO's. And then you saw what Nick Foles was able to do under Frank Reich with the RPO and lead them the Super Bowl. I mean, Carson Wins was, he was the MVP if he wasn't getting hurt that year. And so I think what Frank has done, and then even his time in Indy, was very similar, in my opinion,

just from a schematic standpoint, was very similar to what Doug was running with his own little flavor of things. And they even called it the same things. And I'm really not seeing that type of um schematical and like scheme i guess you would say down there in in carolina and i don't know why and you got to imagine that they have all the other guys trying to build this offense around bryce and what bryce does well maybe not is what you like frank did and so i think as at the end of the day you got to stand on something you got to say on hey look this is the offense like

we're going to run it okay we're going to install it, this is what I know, this is what I think is successful because he's had success with it. And obviously through the years you evolve and you get better and you get all that sort of thing. But I'm not seeing any type of cohesive game plan or route concepts or and maybe it's just because the receivers aren't getting separation. So it's hard to even see the routes come open before he's sacked or has to get off his spot. And so it's a great question.

And I do think that, you know, what friends are. Frank is probably going to do now is be like, here, here's our bread and butter, we're going to stick with it, we're going to get creative. He better, or like you were saying, it could be his job. The thing I go back to talking about Bryce's background, what Frank succeeded with the highest levels, and even the two of a comparison we just made, just build the plane on RPO's. That's what he did in college. That was the basis of Alabama's offense when they were just destroying people. So just leaning into that world rather than this very static, traditional kind of dropback NFL world seems like it would be a beneficial path for everybody

involved. I know that's easy to say, but it just seems like there are some answers that are hanging out there if they wanted to be more committed to leaning into them. Yeah, I mean, they got to figure it out and they got to figure it out fast. And I do with the RPO. I agree with you. But to have an RPO, you actually got to be able to run the football. And I don't think they're a good running team.

So should it help you run the ball if you can block one fewer guys? I know, but you stop the safeties from screaming down because you can throw it right behind them. And I think they've gotten to such a place in their offense where you're playing quarters coverage at eight yards. So everyone's press and you're playing press man. RPO's are not made for that. Yeah. They're not made for press man. They're not made for this tight quarters coverage.

It's like a cover two or a cover three or a normal quarters. Like that is what I want an RPO against. And when you have an RPO versus man, it's like, all right, I'm just going to hand it off. You know, it's just like, all right, well, forget it. And then they have an extra guy in the box. So it's just like, that's what teams are playing them. So they're probably getting away from that. Like, oh, man, like we got to do something else.

I just want to see them take one shot a quarter. Even if it's not there. Just throw it once a quarter just to have them loosen up just a tiny bit. They got to scheme it up because they ain't got no receivers running past guys. That's for sure. All right. On the flip side of Carolina's issues, and we mentioned this a little bit, is the success that Houston has been having so far this year.

And a lot of people, I think, naturally have compared Bryce Young, with C.J. Straout, but I want it to go beyond what their production looks like and examine what the offenses are doing, right? So if Carolina is setting Bryce Yucke up to fail, it feels like Houston is setting up C.J. Stroud to succeed. So what have you seen from the Texans offense structurally that you feel like has stood out and put this group in a really good spot with him as a rookie? Well, there's a lot of things. The number one thing from my perspective, and I've broken down his last like three or four games they are taking shots down the field man like they are not letting guys sit on them and that is the biggest thing it's not only like just when i say shots down

field let me let me just go back a little bit it's like when i say shots it's not just like go ball throws one on one you hope you hit them ever anyone can do that like okay it's the scheme that they have within their under center play action movement bootleg game that is next level. I mean, some of these, and it's not only that, but it's when Sloic and Shane Day and Jared Donson, when they're calling it, because it looked like against Sensi, like they saw Sensi were like, hey, Sensi is in single high zone almost every single second down. and if you watch the game on all their chunk plays every second and four to eight they are calling under center shot plays and like hitting them to Noah Brown. Like it's it is it is unreal because they're like I don't care if on third if we if it's incomplete on second and seven we'll call a third and eight meter and we'll be fine.

And so just the vast amount of stuff that they have in like and I know and I know Shane day. I was with Shane day. But that whole offensive staff, like they, they deserve the credit because it is Kyle Shanian-type stuff, but they're doing some, they're doing some next-level stuff. And it's honestly because C.J. Stroud can handle it from a mental aspect. And it's like a simple thing such as like a movement. So on play call sheets, we'll have these movement plays. And most of the movement plays and most of the play call sheets I've had and office have had, they're shot. plays downfield. Okay. And there might be six or seven a game. And we always, as quarterback, just call them, just call them, just call them.

Even if it's not there, like, we will check it down. We won't because it's just like, it's good stuff. Like, you don't want to, like, I remember in New Orleans, it was like six or seven. And it drew would be like, Sean, like, call them all. I promise you, we will hit some. If not, then so what, I'll throw it away. And we got to a point where,

Drew was rolling and we were calling six or seven a game of just shot, movement, under center, really cool slot, like play action stuff. When I look at CJ, it's not only like, that menu is like 14 plays. And because they are just continuing to call. And it's not only that. It's like so many different setup points by a quarterback. He's got a shotgun, which would be, or like a pistol play action game where he's moving in the pocket. It's not just like fake. It's like a true heavy play action to bring

two tight ends back shots down the field. It's under center movement where he's faking to the left and setting up in the A gap or another one faking to the left, setting up all the way on the other side of the hash throwing across the box. So the sheer amount of stuff that a defense has to prepare for when they deal with this offense. And by the way, they were out without their starting running back and they still ran for 170. Like, what? Like, so that is what I'm seeing. It's like they're not getting away from running the football because at the,

at the genesis of this Shannon offense, it is the run game. And so they are running the ball really well. But because they're running the ball really well and continue to stick with it, all their play action shot stuff is not only working. It's easily the best in the league right now. Their running game was awful for the first month or so of the season. But they've continued to do it. And I think part of the reason they've continued to do it,

same reason that the Niners have continued to do it in years where it maybe hasn't been as efficient, because it allows everything else to come together. If you're going to run the ball consistently on early downs, teams are going to play you that way. And the amount of heavy boxes they're getting against some of these looks, the percentage of their runs that go into heavy boxes on first and second down are some of the highest in the league. Well, guess what?

The percentage of cover three that they see on early downs is one of the highest in the So they're simplifying coverages with some of this personnel stuff, and it's allowed them to push the ball down the field against some of these looks. And we talk about this with Josh Allen. Those plays where they're moving the pocket, even though you're asking him to make a difficult throw, mentally, you're still taking something off of his plate. He's setting up outside of the pocket, and he's either ripping it or checking it down. There's two reads. There's two reads exactly on that.

It's like one to check down. That's it. And that is mentally an easy thing to put on your quarterback. So you combine that stuff on early downs that is fun as shit to watch because he's aggressive and he can rip it. So every single time they do that and he's setting up outside the pocket, it's one of those moments where I feel like I'm just like standing up on the couch because I'm ready. I'm just ready for whatever is going to come next. But then you combine that with the truly high level stuff he is doing in high leverage moments. That throw that he hit to the sticks to Tank Dell that didn't end up going for a first down but was an inch short.

That's the type of stuff where you're combining all of it. Where we talk about how the Panthers, it's cascading in the wrong way, where you're putting so much stuff on him and then you're seeing the worst version of him. Here, you're giving him some easy ones on early downs and then you're asking him to be the guy he's been in some of these high leverage moments. It's just the right combination of stuff, making the game easier while also having a guy who is clearly a dude. And all of that stuff working in concert is awesome. Well, and that's the thing. it's like it's working in concert because on those early downs they are giving him some easy plays to just sort of relax but also his physical traits or just take over and he's building that

confidence yeah that's the thing that people don't understand is such a big deal outside of okay just the exes and o's like you want these like I always thought like on the first or second play the game just give me a little stick route just let me get that first completion out of the way or that on the first drive like just give me an easy one that's what the Texans are doing and boy is it is it like took off from there because they are giving them some easy ones, but he's making the easy ones. And he's like, okay, I can play in this league. I can make that throw.

Like the throw, did you see the throw to the tight end on like second and long? And the tight end's running a dagger route. And he hits them in stride. It's man to man. They in and out it. And they hit the tight end, Dalton Schultz. Dalton Schultz. Dalton Schultz.

And I've never seen a tight end. run a dagger route and actually be in the progression. And the fact that he's in the progression, then he actually throws it to a tight end on like what would be a receiver route. Like the trust he has. And it was like just a shot. It was just like a BB right in this helmet to a tight end and tight coverage 20 yards down the field. I'm just like, I'm looking at that.

I'm like, okay, people don't understand like all the layers of that play. It's supposed to go a little return route. But the return route was covered. and they built leverage on an en route by crossing them, and then the end comes open, but it takes a little bit longer. And that's what I saw too in a couple of these breakdowns. And I don't want to say,

he's not Tom Brady. His feet remind me so much of how Brady was in the pocket because it's just pitter pat, pitter pat, pitter pat. Now, Brady would just sit. He's a little bit different where he just keeps his feet moving. But it's not these massive moves or swings in the pockets like you used to see Drew Brees do. and like massive movements.

It's almost like build a wall and just let me stay back there deep enough and then just with his like release too. Like all of that is really, really cool. I mean, you're literally watching history right now happen as one of this will go down. I don't care what the numbers are just from terms of quarterbacking as a rookie.

This will go down as one of the best seasons ever for a rookie. One of the coolest things he does is how quickly he can get these balls off. And some of the, I've said this, a lot of other guys, when they're in traffic, they'll drop an arm ankle to throw the ball around a guy. The fact that he will change the trajectory at which he throws to throw over people in tight spaces, part of the reason that he can so quickly get those balls off is his feet are always ready to throw. His feet are always ready for him to throw. It is incredibly cool to watch. And I'm 100% with you.

Like, when I watch him play, I just feel like I'm watching one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Like, there are going to be moments where he gets fooled. And he almost threw a pick when they were in a cover zero look. They dropped the linebacker out. He got fooled. That sort of stuff is going to happen. He hasn't banked the mental reps in order to kind of overcome some of that stuff. That comes with time.

But purely process-oriented stuff, he is already one of the best processing quarterbacks in the NFL, mentally and the physical process of how he plays. And it's just unbelievably cool to watch. And you combine that with an offense that is putting him in the right spots and is giving him. some of those easy decisions, easy throws, combined with everything that he's doing on his own. And I think that's what you see. And I think it's important to contrast what we're seeing there and what we're seeing in Carolina and just how different it is.

CJ Stroud on his own is probably a star, right? Like if you put him in an average situation, he's probably a star. But it's being accentuated because of everything that you're seeing in Houston. That play you talk about with Dalton Schultz, it's such a perfect play to point out because there was a play in the Bears game where Hayden Hurst is the number one receiver outside in a three-by-one formation, and he has no shot at winning against a corner. Absolutely no shot. Dahl Dahl Dahl Dahlts did it twice in that Houston game where he's winning on in breaking routes against a cornerback. So those tiny little differences, I think, have really shined a light.

And in a way both good and bad, you're seeing all of the warts in Carolina. You're seeing all of the strengths in Houston because of what's around these guys. I mean, at the end of the day, the quarterback is the system and the system is the quarterback, and they have to work as one. Like, that sounds weird, but, like, I've always enjoyed and thought that if you were called a system quarterback, it is a good thing. Because your system is what you are and what you put out on the field every single day. Your system is the weapons that are surrounded with you, the coaching staff that comes around

you the way that the first 15 is that is the system it's not just like oh these are just so scripted so easy through no like you still got to go out there and do it and if you're in a good system with good coaches and good people you're going to play a long time in this league and that's what you're seeing right now in uh in houston and what you're not seeing is i i don't know it's it in carolina it's difficult for me to say it's a bad system yet what i see it's the bad personnel and So if one of those things are off, I don't care who it is, it can sway so much back and forth. And so that's the biggest difference for me with CJ and with Bryce.

Like they're going to be ForeverLink. Like, like, that's just how it is based on how they went, one and two. And boy, it could not be any more different for CJ than it is for Bryce right now? I wanted to ask you, this is a very bad question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. When you're watching an NFL offense, how do you know it's a good offense? how do you know what you're watching is well constructed it's thoughtful it's putting guys in positions to succeed what are the hallmarks of that in your mind oh man um that is such a difficult question because it's not only a difficult question to answer but um i guess when you play it for 14

years you just you just know and you it's hard for you to like go out there and say but but and i thought a lot about this question um for me a good offense is everyone being on the same page and everyone working for that one common goal. And everyone's like, well, okay, what do you, what do you mean? Well, it's like, it's the trust in the chemistry built. Like, it's not even play calls in my opinion. It's knowing the small, tiny details and everyone is bought in for it. And such things is like, hey, on this play, we're running an out route to the field. I want you bottom edge of the numbers. Okay. You better. be on the bottom edge of the numbers on this out route because it gives us the right amount of

leverage. As soon as you move to maybe even the middle of the numbers, a yard, one yard, and a quarterback, the receiver doesn't even think twice about it. The quarterback hits his back foot, one, two, three, ball gone, which it should be on a quick out, and the receiver catches the ball out of bounds. You're thinking, well, it's not on me. Like, I did my, and then you go back and you watch the film and we're like, I freaking told you to be on the inside edge of the numbers. And that's the difference between, there's thousands of examples of stuff like that. Hey, offensive linemen, when you're run blocking, okay, every once in a two point stance. Okay, every, like, switch it up.

Like, there's so many different things. And it's not only, like, a lot of it has to do with, you got to have good players to be successful. And you got to have a good scheme. but the best offenses I've been around, take for instance, take for instance the New Orleans Saints offense. Can you tell me that we had one superstar receiver that everyone was like, no,

in that five or six year run where Bruce, Marcus Colston, seventh round pick, Devery Henderson, Robert Meacham. Jeremy Schocky was there, but he didn't have, like it wasn't, like, you know, so Lance Moore. Okay, like the biggest superstar we ever was Reggie Bush.

And maybe Jeremy Shockey, but Reggie Bush was there. He's a running back. It's different. And Breeze was putting up 5,000 yard seasons. Like, it was nothing. And so that, to me,

is what, that's what I know is, like, a really great offense. 2011, we were, I think we were like the third best offense in the history of the game in terms of yards,

point scored, everything. And that's when Darren Sproles had one of his breakout years, same with Jimmy Graham. But you can't tell me, look at that offense, we'd be like, that was loaded with superstars.

man. No, it wasn't. It was because not only did the coaching staff know how to use its personnel and deploy it, but also every single person was bought in on one common goal and that was executing one play at a time, one drive at a time, one game at a time. And it became such the small details of it and everyone bought in for it. And that's a long winded answer, but that's for the most part what I think. I'm completely with you. And I think the Texans are, are again a very good example of this. You can go back to so many different games that they've played this year. Let's go back to the Pittsburgh game and how thoughtful the plan they had for T.J. Watt was. All these heavy personnel packages, tight ends slicing back across the formation to seal them off, chips every single time. That's one element of it. Two plays that stick out to me from the Cincinnati game.

One, we talked about this on the Sunday night show. There's an in-breaker to Noah Brown that he hits, and they're playing quarters, I want to say. And so he bends outside while running vertical before taking it back across the middle of the field. So if he bananas that thing even a little bit, the safety's driving down on it. But because he bends it outside while pushing vertically and he snaps it off, the safety doesn't have time to drive down on it. And then there was a long run that Devin Singletary had where Robert Woods is inserting inside and the buy-in from the receivers blocking. that's another one where I can just tell, like you said, everyone on the same page. And this Texan's offense, it's why I like having these conversations because sometimes it's hard to figure out how to articulate it.

Like, why is this team good? Why is this play caller good? Why is this quarterback being put in positions to succeed? Sometimes it's hard to find the actual details as to why. But if you watch the Texans long enough, even a moron like me can see some of it and just say, look, I get this. I get why this is actually good. and something like the Panthers is actually bad. It's subtle and it's quiet sometimes,

but I do think that those details are what shine through. The details are what matters, and that's the only thing I've ever, or I ever was coached really in all of the years I've been in. Because if you look at like top down from player one to player 1, 1,000 or however many there are in the league, there's really not like that much difference. I mean, you know, in the thing that's separate,

a lot of people. I've known a lot of receivers that have played in this league a long time, maybe not been stars, but have just done what they're told, done what they're coach, done what they're asking, just had that extra little bit of juice to stay on with the team for six or seven years. I mean, that's Lance Moore in a in a in a nutshell. I mean, he was so good at doing exactly what Drew told them to do at the exact same time. And so the details of it matter. and it's hard to see from a naked eye if you're not trained to see those details on any given Sunday, but the game is full of that. And all the mistakes usually happen is because it was coached correctly, but a detail

happened or a mental error happened or stuff like that. And that's what is the difference between like a good offense and a really great offense, in my opinion. I think we're seeing the Houston Texans take their step toward being one of those great offenses in the league so far based on. everything that we've seen. All right, that's all we got for today. Have a couple of things we're going to get to on some later shows, but really wanted to dig into those pretty meaty discussion topics and those quarterbacks who have really

stolen a lot of the headlines this week. The Deshawn Watson injury news came out earlier today, just before we started recording, essentially, we're going to dig into that with Nate tomorrow on our preview show. So if you're looking for discussion about the Browns, their future, what's happening there, that will be coming your way very shortly. For now, that is all we've got. please go check out everything that exists on the Athletic Football Show channel in the Athletic Football Show universe. Go talk, mention that Frank Wright conversation about his future.

Please go listen to the Resini Report with me and Diana. Dig into that. Dorsey firing, a lot of other newsy stuff. Prospects to pros, as always, available to you in your feeds right now. And we will be back with our week 11 preview on the feed on Friday morning. So please come back and check that out for now. That is all we got. Appreciate you guys.

We'll talk to you soon. This was the athletic football show.