The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In The Pocket: Jordan Love's play, Russell Wilson's mini-turnaround, Andy Dalton's role in Bryce Young's growth, and more

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

Do the Packers have another decade-long starter on their hands? Jordan Love has certainly looked the part the last few weeks, and that's where Robert Mays and Chase Daniel begin on this episode of The Athletic Football Show's In The Pocket. They also talk about Russell Wilson's mini-turnaround, why certain successful coordinators become good head coaches and others don't, and Andy Dalton's role in Bryce Young's growth after the firing of Frank Reich.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today for this week's edition of In the Pocket. It is long time NFL quarterback, Chase Daniel. Chase, how you doing, man? Good, good. Just not envying you Chicagoans up there over there.

And you're telling me it's 17 degrees out. It's 55 degrees here in San Diego today. And people are wearing puffer coats and ugg boots and all those things. I'm just like, man, I love my time in Chicago, but I'm glad I'm not in that weather anymore. I'm fine with it. This is where I'm from. I'm a creature of this weather when I go down to Miami for Thanksgiving every year. And it's such a disorienting experience to be an 85 degree weather around Thanksgiving.

Because my nature and my instinct is, okay, it's Thanksgiving time. I should wear a sweater. And then that doesn't work. But then I get, every time I get back from that trip, it's just such a cold. cold realization, literally a cold realization. I walk out of O'Hare to go get my Uber home and I'm just greeted with this frigid wind. And that's exactly what happened on Monday when we got off the plane. So I should be more ready for it at this point because we've done it for like four or five years going down there with my in-laws. But I'm never quite prepared for what that whiplash is like.

Well, and it's not even December. And I remember my two years in 18 and 19 with the bears and we would never go inside. Like we would go inside on Fridays sometimes. Was the pay. Center even done then? Yeah, it was the first year it was done was 19. So we got the first year in it. And it was amazing. But like I just remember all the practices, even like in October, it would be frigid. It would be so cold.

It would like in, I don't, I don't even know how I did it because I come the past two years here in L.A. And I'm out there and it's like 70 and sunny every day when we're like practicing. And I remember wearing like full long. on sweatshirts, like hoodies, skull, like, beanies, all this stuff underneath my pads. And it was just like, I guess you just got used to it. But now we went back to Kansas even for Thanksgiving. And it started snowing. Like on Thanksgiving, I'm like, it's going to be a cold winter for you guys, man.

I can't even know. I'm glad I'm not there. Well, we went to school in Missouri. So you were there for four years. But it wasn't nearly, it didn't get as cold in Missouri. And when it would snow, the town would shut down. But do you remember, were you still around in 07? when there was that freezing rainstorm the day before Thanksgiving break.

That was one of the worst weather events I've ever been a part of. It was the day before we left for Thanksgiving. We had a party that night at my apartment complex at campus lodge. Remember all those apartment complexes just off campus? So we had a party there that night and it rained, but it gets cold enough overnight where it freezes. So I woke up the next morning and there was no joke. There was an inch of ice on my car. And I had to go to work the next day at MC Sport.

and I'm sitting there trying to chisel my car out of this just inch thick of ice. That's what weather in Missouri is like. It doesn't get cold on snow that often, but it's worse. And I remember driving on that. I had a single cab, red F-150 and it had cloth seats and it was so light. It's like almost like those old Ford lightnings. That was just two seats.

That's it. And I remember like trying to drive to the Matsy, which is the place where we work out at Missouri. the old one. And I couldn't even like, it's a huge downhill from those campus. We live right below those campus lodge. It's a huge hill and you have to get a huge hill to go back up.

And I remember like I slid my back into my truck the entire way there. It was like I was drifting the entire way there because it was full on ice. I do not miss those days. This time of year with other changes, this is typically when we get a pretty good idea of what a lot of these NFL teams look like. And we're going to talk about a couple of quarterbacks. that have kind of settled in as we've gotten to this stage in the season, then what that might mean for them and their teams moving forward.

So let's start with Jordan Love, the Green Bay Packers, and the hot streak that they are on right now offensively. Jordan Love fourth in EPA per dropback over his past four games. And also, the Packers are fifth in passing success rate over that span. Why that's important is that early in the season, his EPA per dropback numbers were very high, but it was because they were buoyed by big plays. Just think back to those early games when they're hitting all those shots against the Falcons,

they had a lot of big plays against the Bears. But down to down, they were struggling. They were down below the middle of the pack and success rate. So it wasn't as if they were efficient. It was that they were hitting a lot of big plays. Now they've settled into a version of this offense where the efficiency is there and the explosive plays are there. And that's really encouraging.

So I wanted to dig into what we've seen from Jordan Love here over the past month or so. of what that might mean moving forward. So when you're watching Love right now, what is standing out to you about what he's doing well within this Packers offense? Well, I think he's gaining more confidence. And I tweeted this out the other day and I did a breakdown on him. And I was just so impressed because, you know, the first two or three games of the year we watched and it was like they were rolling.

And then there was like a six game low, five game low. And so I didn't really pay attention to them. And it's sort of the recency bias. And I probably should because it's my job and whatever. But they just weren't really. all 32 teams. You're gonna, guys are gonna slip through the cracks for three, four week stretches. There's just no way to keep up with it all.

Exactly. And that's the thing that just wasn't fun to watch. If I'm being honest, because it was just they weren't really hitting it. They have a bunch of rookies, a bunch of tight ends runners that are like rookies. So I put on the last two tapes of him. And I've just been completely impressed.

And there's a couple reasons why. He's making throws when they're not there. So he's fitting balls into tight windows, which maybe he didn't try during the middle of the year, for whatever reason. Didn't want to turn the ball over. Didn't want to do this. And I mean, even take, for example, the first play of the game of the Detroit Lions Thanksgiving game. I mean, it is bomb. Like, it's a bomb.

The first play of the game. And they came up and said, we're going to play a man. He's going to no, we're not. And the free safety is actually in pretty good position. It's a corner post by Watson. And honestly, Watson easily, easily walks in. But Jordan two hitches it and underthrows it. but he's still able to get up there and make the play.

So like he's doing that more often. And also I want to say a little bit what I've noticed is his arm angle. His arm angle is like insane is not even the right word. I didn't know he had that kind of arm talent. We talk about arm talent and it's not arm strength. It's not how hard you can throw the football. What I view arm talent and what evaluators of NFL quarterbacks view arm talent is, it's how you change.

your arm angle depending on where you are at in the pocket or if you're on the run. And I mean, like 20% of the pockets that NFL quarterbacks throw from are a clean pocket. So you're saying 80% of the time, we did a huge study on this in New Orleans. 80% of the time, the quarterback's moving. You have a guy in your face, somebody at your legs. And time and time again on Thursday and Thanksgiving, he had guys in his face. I mean, the offensive line played okay. I didn't, I didn't think this was their best game. I thought they did a good job of giving him extra bodies and protection. I thought they were very smart with the way they protected, but one-on-one situations,

they still have some issues, concerns. It's not the best group. And I will say the best thing, what you just said was they got four hands on Aden Hutchinson, who is the killer in that rush team, right? Like in that front. And so I was really impressed with that. But just the arm angle, it's interesting because there's a couple times in the game where I'm thinking he has nowhere to throw the football.

ball and he probably just needs to throw it away or he's taking he's not it doesn't seem like he's taken a whole bunch of sacks because he's making the right decisions he's throwing the ball away but a couple of these like deep curls versus man which is the absolute worst thing you could possibly have um verse man coverage you're hoping these like we call them missile routes like 18 back down to 16 you're hoping for zone cover two look the mic off throw it and he had a couple these versus man and he was able to move in the pocket sidearm throw and throw away um from the defender. And just just like that, those unique throws, which you're seeing time and time again. And that's sort of what I what I said and what I thought was when I watched Jordan Love the last

two weeks, in my opinion, he's taken that next step in the starting quarterback level. And that is, hey, not only you're not going to lose the game. You're not a game management. Now you can put the Packers on your back and you can win games with your arms. I don't know if I would have said that four or five weeks ago. But he's trending upward. Can he can continue to do it. I think their play calling has gotten even better down the stretch because honestly, LaFleur has noticed this progression of Jordan Love. These rookie receivers are starting to come on. So it's a fun thing to watch for sure. I've always, creativity is the word I would come back to in terms of the type of throws, right? It's not about arm strength. It's about creativity as a

thrower. And my biggest question with quarterbacks is always, when the answer isn't there for you within a given play. When nobody's open, how do you rise above the structure of the offense? There are so many ways to do it. Some guys do it with mobility. Some guys do it with scrambling. Other guys, the arm angles and what you can create from muddy pockets, that's how you add to the offense. That's how you rise above what's available. Matthew Stafford being the best example. Matthew Stafford takes more than what's there on a given play, in part because of how creative he is as a thrower. And that is what we're seeing in flashes, at least, from Jordan Love. And it's not just trick shots for trick shots sake. It's him being able to get the ball off in these muddy pockets

or when he's backpedaling in the pocket and getting more meat off the bone than a lot of other quarterbacks would. And that is extremely encouraging when you're trying to find one of the handful of guys in the NFL who can consistently lift you above what a given play is going to give you. Exactly. That's exactly what Jordan's doing is. And you hit it right on. You're a little bit better at voicing what I'm thinking. But the creativity and also just just being able, like you said, like Lefleur can't call a perfect game. Any offensive quarter, they're not going to call a perfect game. But can you, like you said, rise above the certain play call? Because like I'll take for example, I'm going back to those missile, those little dig curl routes. Okay, he's calling that on. second and long and Detroit came out in man-to-man coverage. Jordan does not have an out for whatever on that play. They're like, hey, we're just going to let it roll versus man. He plays sucks versus man, dude. Like, it is not good. And they played a ton of man in that game. And they played a ton of man. Way more man. And you look and I'm just imagining LaFleur on the sideline, he's thinking,

he's like, damn. You know, he's like, man, I call this play. Let's see what's going to happen. Because even your checkdowns are flats. Flats versus man to man. So he's like, hey, Jordan knows you just kind of make like you got to make an all-star throw. And that's exactly what he does. And not only that, your receivers have to win. And what I saw versus that man coverage, which I haven't seen all year long is those receivers winning versus man to man. And they got some speed there. That's the thing. Like this is like one of the youngest teams in the National Football League. So they're building this thing the right way. I think they were two and four at one point. They're five and six right now. And right in the thick of the NFC playoff battle.

I was talking to somebody there yesterday and just talking about some of the progression we've seen from some of the young guys. And they said, The most encouraging part is that we've seen them grow together. And that's what you're seeing. There are still fuckups. You know, there was a play, I think, on the first drive where you have two guys running the same route. The tight end and the receiver are both running the little rap route.

He has nowhere to go with it. And it's like, all right, that stuff is still going to happen. Tucker Kraft is still just getting kind of worked into the offense now that Luke Musgrave has hurt. All of these guys are still very, very early in their careers. But you're starting to see the flashes of what those guys can be. Christian Watson finally showing up. and showing you what type of force he can be within the offense.

Jayden Reed giving them consistent juice in what they're doing. Even guys like Don Tavian Wicks, who has been good for them in stretches, Malik Keith, who's another undrafted rookie, he had some moments against the Lions. So it was always going to be slow to get to the point that they wanted to get to. And that was beyond the quarterback being in his first year as a starter. It's all those other guys getting on the right page, also as you're dealing with injuries and shuffling along the offensive line. So the fact that it's all starting to come together with everyone at the same time,

they're walking in lockstep toward where they want to be. I think that is the most encouraging part of watching this offense overall. Is number 11 Reed? Yes, he's a rookie as well. Dude. Okay. So I'm going to be honest, like when you don't watch a guy like back to back to back to back weeks, you don't really know their weapons.

In the last two weeks, the Chargers and this Detroit Lions game, the person other than Christian watching that that's flashed to me is read number 11 like I'm watching him I'm like do this guy's got some juice like he's got some real juice behind them and and so it's been it's been cool to see other people stepping up because like I'm going to be honest like when I was watching I had no idea who people were other than Christian Watson and that's a thing like what you like to see is everyone growing together and you're doing it in a way that everyone's really well coached you can tell everyone cares. It's the classic Green Bay offensive guys, really no like stud number one receiver, but everyone sort of helping, right? Everyone helping out. And man, if they can continue to grow,

especially because they're like one of the youngest teams in the NFL, LaFleur's got something to them. And that's the other thing that you look at the stats, okay, because I'm a big stats guy. Through the first 11 games of Aaron Rogers that he started and Jordan Love that he started, they're identical, 21 total touchdowns. 2,600 99 total yards. I mean, if you, like, people that are like just crapping on Jordan Love through the first, like, four or five games, like, give this guy. That's what we don't do. It's so, it's so recency biased in this, in this, like, circle of covering NFL.

They don't let guys grow, okay? And they, without just getting on to him because everyone say, what have you done from? Okay, but like, dude, look at him. Look what he's put through. And I'm not saying that, hey, I think, but I don't. know like Green Bay has found there another 15 year starter which is absolutely like that could be wild that you go from like Brett far Aaron Rogers to Jordan Love now there's a lot to go from it. He still has to continue to get better but he's on the right track.

The thing about Jane Reed that I love is that he is a skill set that they just have been missing in this offense for so long. They've tried to find it whether it was Amari Rogers or some other guys where just get the ball in their hands and let him go to work and that's because they seek out a specific type of receiver typically. They go for these bigger guys. They have size thresholds that they really don't compromise on ever. But because he had the returnability in college, I think that made them a little bit more open to a guy with his size and his physical profile. And it's added a really cool layer to the offense. So talking about Jordan Love specifically, it's not all great, right?

This is still a guy who's in his first season. There's some sloppiness. There's some things to clean up. Where do you think he still needs to improve after you go back and you watch the last couple games? Yeah, I mean, look, it's not glaring holes, but there are two things in particular that I thought he just didn't do a great job of. And that is on the deeper throws down the field, I've seen at least three or four times in the Chargers and the Lions game, just the last two games that he's underthrowing balls. And he's underthrown these balls because his footwork is not great. And I'm saying on those plays, he's late on throwing.

He might be a little bit late seeing it and processing, oh, I can let this go. Like, if he lets the post, the big post on the first play of the game go on the first hitch rather than the second hitch knowing that like Watson is a speed burner, it's an easy touchdown. And I think they ended up scoring on that play or on that drive. They did. So it was fine. It was fine. The play they scored on was that ball he fit in through a keyhole to Jane Reed.

Well, and then Christian Watson ran the absolute wrong route. It's hilarious. If you actually go back and watch it, I'm like, what are they doing? Because he alerts it. And they're trying to run triple slant, which is a Green Bay like staple.

And on triple slant, you're trying to hit the number two guy. And Christian Watson is supposed to have what we call a lookie. The lookie is supposed to run through the linebacker, which is playing whole coverage, whole coverage as a linebacker. And man, you're just reading the quarterback's eyes and going to it.

Well, Christian Watson thinks that they're running that little bubble screen. Okay. So you got two guys in the outside running slants. Christian Watson's going to get the ball. And like halfway through the route, you can see he's like, oh, crap. And then like actually, I have no clue. Like he messed up not only the defender on him, but the whole linebacker.

And somehow that ball got through there. But you can watch after like Christian knows he messes up. He just puts the hands on his head. He's like, oh my gosh. Like, what are we doing? It was hilarious. But honestly, the second thing too, if you go back and watch the second play of the game, they're running a flat and a slant on one side, okay?

And they're also, they're running a Hank route, which is like a hook route over the ball at five yards, a curl route at 12 yards outside, and a flat route. So you want to work the Hank side versus this shell coverage. Shell coverage is too high look, any quarters too high over there.

And you want to work this, what we call dragon slant flat versus any single high zone or man. Okay, well, he throws the slant second play of the game and gets his guy crush in its quarter. He works the wrong side. And you look over here, the curls standing wide open. Honestly, if he breaks the tackle, he might score. Like stuff like that's going to come up, like working the wrong side because that's the type of offense that they are. They're a, hey, this is the side versus cover two and cover four. This is the side versus single high zone and man. And the quarterback's got to be right. And it wasn't like he was, it was being disguised. You see a couple of that. You see a couple of those plays like wrong reads, like wrong reads within the game. And I go back to even the, the, the, the charger. game. He's taken a huge high post versus quarters and he's taking this deep curl versus cover two. Well, he ends up throwing the deep post underthrows it and this missile

versus cover two, which is exactly what you want is standing wide open. So there's a couple of these things on film that you could say, hey, he's not perfect. He needs to continue to get better. And it's not like it's, it's not like it's 10 plays a game, but it's like four to five plays a game. And over the season, those plays can add up. Is that okay in your mind? for somebody that's on start 12. Do you feel like he's behind or ahead of where he should be? I think he's actually above, like in front of where he should be. And that's just the maturation process of being a quarterback.

Like you're only going to get, people don't understand like you're only going to get experience through playing. It sounds easy to say, but you're not going to get experience from practice or reps in pre-seating. Like, I'm sorry. It's just, it's just not the real thing. And he's just stacking weeks, man. That's just what they want them to do. They just want them to stack weeks on top of the user. Don't try not to make the same mistake twice because there's going to be mistakes made.

And quite honestly, that ball was completed where he threw that slant versus quarters. And only people that know, like, where he should have went, which is honestly the offensive staff and guys that have played the game. Like he made the wrong read, but he completed it.

Okay, second and two, we're good. I like that it was an aggressive choice. Like him ripping that ball. I think if you're going to make the wrong decision, make it that way. I agree. Because he did get his guy lit up.

And I was thinking he, exact same thing. It's like there's nothing preventing that quarter safety from just driving on that ball. But yeah, you know, it's a completion. It's an accurate throw. One of my issues watching him is that for all the creativity and all the fun off platform stuff, it can get a little sloppy at times and he can spray some balls. And I think maybe that is something you just have to live with if this is going to be his play style. But every once in a while, this is true at the beginning of the season and I think it still holds true even over these couple games. There are a couple where it's like, whoops, where that thing, that thing just gets away from him. little bit. And again, that evens out over time and the ratio of cool, effective, impactful off platform throws is so much higher than that spray every once in a while. Maybe it's just something that you kind of take with the bad or take with the good. You do. You do. And it's in every every quarterback, right, is going to have those throws. You just want to see this guy get more consistent. That that's the biggest thing. And quite honestly, I've seen a huge jump the last two games in him, just his confidence level too, because isn't it wise?

I just go back and think about the history of the Green Bay Packers. And you look at their last three quarterbacks, right? Brett Farr, Aaron Rogers, Jordan, Love. And all three of those guys have these crazy off platform throws. And I'm like, okay, you just learn it. Like Rogers learned it from Favre and Love learned it from Rogers. And now they're perfecting as they go. Like I think that is so cool to just know like, hey, the Green Bay Packers quarterbacks for the last three decades or whatever it is.

They're like, they just are known for off platform throws. And it's just, it's, it's cool to see. It's November 29th. They don't have to make any definitive decisions right now, but we're going to try to make one for them anyway here. You're Brian Gukuts and Matt LaFleurr, how are you approaching the Jordan Love situation this off season? If you had to make the decision right now,

which you don't, but we're going to do it anyway. Oh, you're re-upping them as soon as this season ends. You're re-uping them. And you're not, I mean, he's going to hit 40 million, I would think. But like, he's not going to be a 50 million. million dollar guy now, but I think it's going to be a team-friendly contract. But I think for sure, like, you don't want your quarterback being a lame duck, especially with how he's played down the stretch. I think he's shown enough that if you put guys around him, if they continue to grow, like,

like they've shown, he's shown enough to me to be in that contract situation. Because quite honestly, he's on a really friendly deal right now, man. Like, let's just be completely honest. Like, as starting quarterbacks go. And so, look, it's a seven and a half million dollar cap hit. which is nothing, but I guarantee you the, I don't want to guarantee it. I would imagine that they would absolutely do a three to four year deal, two year guarantee and the gap, and the API is somewhere in the 40s. The Daniel Jones contract. Maybe high 30s.

Yeah. And quite honestly, he's better than Daniel Jones. He, he to me looks like a guy. And quite honestly, you know, it's not really fair on Daniel Jones. I don't think the offense around him has been great. But I do think what the Packers love. is continuity. They don't want all these changes. And quite honestly, with the state of the union right now in quarterbacking, I just don't know if there's 18 to 20 guys better than him in the world. And that says a lot.

That says a lot. So if you have your guy, even if he's not the guy that you hope in some like Patrick Mahomes, he can still win you games. And he's doing everything that he was supposed to do, in my opinion, in this season to earn another shot. and to earn another contract. I'd be curious to see what they do in the draft. If he ends up being the guy and that they move forward with him, Bactyare is obviously on that monster contract. His future is very murky.

It's a really good tackle draft. And where they end up picking in the first round, could they find a tackle at that spot? You've got all those young weapons. So if you've got cost-controlled weapons, a cost-controlled left tackle potentially, if you draft one in the first round, and you go cheap there,

it's an interesting build of your roster. and they've got some decisions to make on defense. But again, I think that the overall trajectory of the youth movement that they've had on offense, they made an interesting set of bets, not doing anything in the veteran market at receiver. I actually, I appreciate that because I think by doing that, you don't cut off pathways to opportunities and growth for your young guys. It's always nice to have one guy in the room where you can say, like, this is how you should do it. But I think just kind of roll on the ball out and saying, we're going to sink or swim with these four. or five dudes in their first or second season.

I do think there are benefits to that. And I think they're realizing some of those benefits. I do think, and I was just, it's so funny you said that about veteran receivers. I do think if they end up having like and wanting Jordan love to be the future there, I do think that a true like one or number two receiver would, it helps so much, like so much within that room, but also Jordan as well. Like if you, if Jordan's your guy, you want to build around him and you need a guy at receiver opposite of Christian Watson, opposite all these other guys. I know they're trying to

make these guys work and that's great. But just even adding a true number two guy for 10 million dollars for a year or two in the veteran free agent market that fits your like team that fits your offense, I think it would be awesome. Next year is Jacoby Myers. A guy like in that sort of mold. I think that's interesting. All right. Let's get to another guy here who definitely has had his ups and downs over the last couple years, but is on a pretty nice run. And that is Russell. Wilson. Jordan Love is one of the biggest quarterback questions we had heading into this season. How Russell Wilson would fare with Sean Peyton was definitely another. And over these five games that the Broncos have won, he's looked considerably better than he did at any point last

season. When you watch Russ over these last couple of games, what has stood out to you about what he is giving the Broncos right now? Well, he's given him a chance. And quite honestly, like, I've been really impressed with Russ because everyone counted him out last year. Every single person was like he's done. Maybe it's just the offensive coordinator. Maybe it's the head coach. Hackett, all those things. I think Sean Payton was a really good reset for Russell Wilson. And what I'm seeing is, first and foremost, that defense,

the last five games and the five-game win streak, 16 takeaways. So they're getting more drives on offense. They're getting more opportunities. And they're cashing in in the red zone. Okay, they haven't been great on third down. And what I saw, even from the last two games, is they're letting Russ operate at the line of scrimmage. Yeah. Okay. And that to me is awesome because that's where a veteran quarterback does his best. Okay. And you saw the last game against the Browns. They had this little four by one package where they motioned to half back in. Like it's a menu of four or five plays. They have a trips package. That's a menu of four or five plays. They have an empty package. That's a menu of four or five plays. And Russ's just getting to a play that he likes and that he knows. And I've talked to the coaching staff in Diver. Like Russ loves that stuff. That's who Russ is. I don't think Russ is a guy.

that you can sit back and say, hey, you've got to get through three reads, you got to get through four reads, work this side versus cover two, this side versus cover three, get to a man beer. That's not Russ. And if you go back and actually study Russ, even from his Seattle days, he's a look at number one, look at number two, take off. And that, to me, outside of the start of the season, really the last six games, that's who this, that's what this offense has become. And so they're sort of tailoring it around Russ. And you see these concepts that you see. seen time and time again from a New Orleans saint, Sean Peyton based offense, Joe Lombardi, all these guys. And they're also running the ball at a really, really amazing clip.

Like, I'm going in and I'm saying, man, they're not going to be able to run the ball against that Cleveland Brown's defense. Man, Zach Streef, who's the offensive line coach in Denver, like came up with a master plan, in my opinion for these run games. And it's check. And it's like, check with me, Russ, get us in the right. And I did not imagine they'd be running the ball against that Cleveland Brown's defense. on third and five, third and six, getting first downs, and also Russ with his feet, right? Like two or three design quarterback runs, and not only that, he's, he's had some good quarterback design runs and some scrambles, but he's scrambling to throw. That throw to Troutman,

I think, is a tight end on 82, like that where he got his knee down. I mean, the play took like 10 seconds. Like that, to me is vintage rush. You get Russ in the red zone, Russ is going to cook. And that's another thing, too. They throw go ball. They do try to throw the ball down the field. Russ is one of the best. deep ball go ball throwers that that has really that I've seen the last five years like if he gets it up and down whether it's a back shoulder over the top all this stuff now he missed some throws too like they had some stuff wide open you got to give credit to sean peyton they cooked up some plays for wide open some of these deep crossing routes that they hit time and time again but i think

he's playing at a really really high rate and it's been impressive to watch i'm curious i would love to be a fly on the wall for the conversations between Sean Payton and Russell Wilson this season because it seems to me that there has been a premium put on ball security and taking care of the football consistently. Russ has his lowest A dot, I believe, of his entire career. Over this win streak, he has the lowest A dot in the entire NFL, which that is average depth of target. So his average area arts per target is the lowest in the NFL over their five game win streak. And if you compare that to the style of play we've seen from Russ over the last three, four, five years in Seattle where it's just bombs away all the time, it feels a little bit different.

He is 29th over this stretch and the percentage of his throws that go to the sticks. Again, stylistically, just not what we typically expect from Russell Wilson. He's only thrown four interceptions all season. It really does feel like the emphasis there is one, two, if it's not there, you take off, don't put the ball in harm's way. We're going to run the ball well. We're going to run the ball a lot. You can make something happen out of structure if it's there, but take care of the football.

And that overall recipe, even if it's not putting up monster point numbers, they're not breaking records, they're not a top 10 offense, but it's given them a chance. To me, it feels like the right formula for what this team is and what he is at the stage of his career. And it's actually kind of what I thought they'd be. He's played so much better than I thought he'd. was going to play this year after what we saw last season. Even again, the numbers aren't fantastic. Overall, down to down, that Brown's game being a really good example, he is giving them something

in a way that he did not give it to them last year. So I feel like whatever they've settled on, his role within the offense, what they're telling him, what the structure of the offense is, it's working. It's a partnership that in its current form, it's working about as well as it could right now. Yeah, and it just took a little bit of time to get rolling because I think just over time, right, that Russ and Sean Payton have been together. It just takes time for a relationship to form, for trust to form. And I think Russ is starting to understand, hey, Sean Payton, and you're exactly right. I mean, that's what these guys told me.

Like, hey, just take care of the ball. Like, that's all we want Russ to do, take care of the football, make plays when they're there outside of the pocket, which they've been doing. We're going to run the ball. And our defense is otherworldly, like, these last five games, if we're getting the takeaways and we're not turning it over, right? Like, that's a shot to win. And they're all, I mean, it seems like.

like they figured this thing out on defense. So it's going to be interesting to see how they, how they get this run going these next few weeks. And another thing that's been really impressive to me about Russ and the Broncos offense is they doing this against pretty good teams. Yeah. Right? I mean, it's not like they're playing bad teams.

And so, you know, this week going into Houston is going to be interesting to me, how they end up playing C.J. Stroud, how they do this. But I think just Russ, I think he's finally bought in. And I say finally. I mean, the last year. all this stuff's talked about. But he's sort of rewritten the narrative about him. Like, hey, I can I can sort of mold into who Sean Payton wants me to be.

Like, I trust Sean. I like Sean. I want to revive my career. I still want to be able to play. Because he's still got, he's still got that bug in him that wants him to go deep, man. Like you could tell. And I just think he's playing smart. And if it's not extremely open, right?

He just tucks it and runs or he tucks it and makes something else happen. And so sometimes that's what I don't think, the bigger picture of this, sometimes like with Russ and veteran quarterbacks who have done it before, who've won Super Bowls before, who played at an MVP type level before, sometimes, you know, those guys want to say, hey, I just want to do it my way. And I don't want to buy in. And I just want to make sure that we're doing this my way. And look at what it got him last year, because it was his way last year. And so I think he's really changed his mindset. He's really. really refocused himself. And honestly, that deserves a lot of praise because these guys with, I'm not saying Russ has a big ego, okay, but he loves himself some Russ. Okay. And it's hard sometimes for guys that are like that to really pull back and be like, hey, do a little bit of self-realization, understand that this way isn't working. I have a Super Bowl winning Hall of Fame coach and Sean Payton. Let me dive right in. So honestly, that, you should applaud that.

Us, like, as fans, like, we should applaud that because that doesn't happen very often. They're 12th in offensive DVOA right now, which is higher than I thought. And part of that is driven by the schedule that they play. That's an opponent adjusted metric. According to, I was going to say football outsiders, it's actually FTN fantasy now is where DVOA lives. But according to Aaron Schatz's numbers, they have played the fifth hardest schedule of NFL defenses so far this year. And so that is part of the reason that those numbers are pumped up a little bit. But that's what you're seeing.

A couple things. One, the turnover well is going to dry up at some point on defense. It's not going to keep going like this. So when that happens, what does this team look like? I think is a major question. The other part of this is, even with everything that you just said, how he's tailored his game to what they want to do offensively, the fact that this partnership looks like it's working compared to maybe some of the other timelines we could have followed.

I still am curious what they're going to do this offseason and whether or not he's going to be the quarterback there moving forward because I don't think he's tied to Sean Payton at all. I don't think Russ's fate. It matters as far as Sean Payton's job security. I think this has been a he's what we have. He's what you have to work with. Let's see what happens. And I think it has worked out fairly well, right?

This is the type of team I expected these Broncos to be. They're solid offensively. You know, the defense is still a work in progress, but they are capable and they are competent compared to what they were last year. that's what I expected. Whether or not that's enough for them to commit to him beyond this season, I think becomes the biggest question. Well, and that's what Sean Payton's known for.

Sean Payton gets his guys. And if you're not his guy, you're out of there. And quite honestly, this offseason with all those guys on the team left over from Hackett in the previous regime, John Elway, he hasn't had a chance to get his guys. And let's just be real about it. Like, Sean Payton will be the GM this offseason. Any move and every move he wants to make will happen. So that is an interesting, especially no bigger than the quarterback, right?

Because you just got to look at if, like, I can't imagine them, I don't know. I mean, like, do they draft a quarterback high? And then I look at Sean Payton with rookie quarterback. He's never had one. He's always had a veteran guy. He's always had a veteran guy to run his offense. So do they want to start over with a rookie and try to get some draft capital and try to get some of that? or do they want to go with a big ticket name,

a veteran free agent, or do they want to trade for something? Because, like, I guarantee you. I don't like guarantees, but there will be a splash move in Denver. Whether it's a quarterback or not this offseason, Sean Payton's going to have a sway with that roster, man. The only problem is,

even if they move on from Russ, he has a $35 million cap hit this year in 2024 and a $50 million cap hit in 2025. So they're going to have a hard time, paying for another quarterback, paying a premium for another quarterback. So we'll see what happens. I think that there is a potential path here where Jared Stidham is just the starter next year because they don't have a better option.

They signed him to a two-year deal. He's going to be on the roster next year. He's been capable in stretches. Do they go with kind of a stopgap option as they figure out what their options are moving forward? Because it seems like that might happen just because, again, they don't have a ton of resources, are they going to be in position to draft a guy? All of those things you have to kind of weigh, consider, juggle if they do move on from Russ. Yeah.

I mean, a super interesting decision. I just can't imagine that, I mean, maybe that Sean would go in with just did him. I just, yeah, I don't know. It's a great discussion point. And honestly, if Russ keeps playing the way he's playing, he might be there next year, to be honest with you. Like, if he gets him in contention with it, you know, but it's going to be interesting because there's always the unknown with Sean Peyton.

Like he just does what he wants, man. Like he don't care. Like he sees a vision. Bro, it's his vision. He gets some people on board because he's a hell of a seller. He sells the crap out of it. Okay. And that's where they go.

We'll see how fast they get on that New Orleans state's credit card plan where they start kicking the can down the road financially. No doubt. Oh, Russ is on them books for $35 million. We'll bring in Kirk Cousins here for another 40. It's okay. We'll figure it out later. That's a problem for future George Payton.

Three years down the road when you've got to figure out all this stuff money-wise. All right, let's step away here from the quarterback performances from this week and talk about a couple big picture things that have unfolded in the NFL over the last few days. With Frank Reich fired, the coaching carousel is now already in motion. And we're going to start hearing about some of these hot names in this year's cycle. And it's likely going to be another batch of coordinators from some of these successful teams. You're already starting to hear it. Ben Johnson's name is going to be said in thousand times between now and the end of the season.

Brian Johnson's name from Philadelphia, Mike McDonald and Baltimore, all of these guys. That discussion and that way of framing the search for your next head coach always brings me back to this central question. Okay, what is the difference between the skill set necessary to be an effective coordinator and the skill set necessary to be an effective head coach? Because some of these guys, despite their resumes as a coordinator, they are never going to bridge that gap. They are never going to cross into this, I'm a quality head coach. on top of what I could do as a play caller. So in your experience, what separates the best coordinators from the best head coaches?

Good agents. No, no. I mean, that's definitely part of it. That's how you become a head coach. That's not how you become a successful head coach. Yeah. I think for me, the biggest thing is,

are you a leader of men? There's a huge difference between, I call really good football plays on a call sheet and look at it. Okay? Versus I rally the troops. I'm good in front of the team because quite honestly, like at the end of the day, it comes down to if you're a head coach, do the guys trust you?

Do they believe in you? Do they buy into your vision? And can you talk to them in a way to get them? And these are grown men. These aren't college age kids. Okay. These are grown men with families. Can you get them to buy it?

to your strategy, to your one-year plan, to your three-year plan, and is it actually working? Like, I've been around, I'm not going to say some names. I've been around some coordinators that are great at calling plays. And they're just not great at talking to the offense. They'll have the quarterback coach do it. And quite honestly, some people just don't want to do it. They're like, hey, this is my job. My job's not to rah-rah, this offense.

I'm supposed to set a vision and cast a strategic way to hit that vision. Okay, but I can do that without talking to the team. I think like that's why these like you're starting to see more and more. And like I just go back to Dan Campbell. Like Dan Campbell wants nothing to do with calling plays. I know he wasn't a coordinator so this isn't really the, but like the dude like every single person in that room, including front office, including executives, including GM. They're going to run through, they're going to run through a wall for him, man. Like that's what you need.

That's that X factor in these coordinators. You think that's the most important thing. It's just about making guys feel a certain way when they come to work every day. Yeah. Yeah, because think about it. You do the same exact thing time and time again. So on Monday, during season, I'm talking, on Monday, your schedule is the exact same. On Tuesday, your schedule is the exact same.

Wednesday, it's for 20 weeks. That monotony of that. That dude is not fun. I mean, it is not fun, especially if you're losing. Can you keep a locker room together? can you keep a locker room energized enthused all these things to me that's what i've known the best people and head coaches to do so how do they do yeah with those those guys that you're talking about give me examples of like how you create that buy in how you create that interest

when it is December 8th and people are hurt and it's cold and they don't fucking want to be there anymore yeah i mean that's true and you're you're not in the playoffs i think the biggest thing that I've seen in some examples are you got to spice things up in team meetings, man. It can't be the same old monotone thing. And that's the biggest thing that people understand is like when I was playing quarterback in college even, like people followed me because I was a quarterback. But I did it in a way that empowered other people, if that makes sense. And so you got to be that rah, ra guy. You got to feel that energy. That energy in that juice is if they're seeing you. If they're seeing you. You're seeing you. You're you do it, they're going to want to do it. And so I think it's, it's so hard to explain to people.

But if you're coming into a team meeting, you're cold, you're frustrated, and you have a head coach talk to you like this and you're just monotony, dude, and I've had coaches do that. I ain't going to buy in. You've got to be energetic. You've got to actually believe if, that's the biggest thing too, is people like players. Okay, players will see right through a guy that is not himself. Like, that is a fraud. They're going to be able to find you out eventually because it will happen.

It will happen. So if you're just your true self, if you're authentic, if you can be a leader of man, if you can listen to your players, okay, at the end of the day, the buck stops with you as a head coach. But if you can take advice

and recommendations outside of what you think it should be, and if you open yourself up for people to come in, if you make your, like, office accessible, all these little things. It's not just like, I can't just tell you one little thing. It's all these things stacked upon each other to me that makes a head coach. And quite honestly, like even the smallest thing is a practice schedule. Like a practice schedule is so important. Like down to the details of stuff on what makes guys ticks. Like if you can throw a bone to guys, hey, on Thursday we're supposed to be in full pads in December. Hey, guys, we're going to go shells. Like just those little spurts of energy throughout the day and like little gives and takes.

Oh my God. Like I can't tell you how many times there's been like, oh, hey, take the pads off. We're like, what? No shoulder pads. Like it seems so small. But like when you're in this business, all the little things matter. All this stuff. And I know you played for really good head coaches.

Andy Reid, Sean Payton. I'm sure there are nuggets from all of those, both of those guys in this conversation. But a lot of this stuff just reminds me of Mike Tomlin, right? Like where Mike Tomlin has fallen short in building a staff having a vision for what you want to be offensively, especially in this day and age, is a hugely important part of being a head coach. I think that Mike Tomlin has fallen short at that recently in terms of how they've tried to put this together. But the reason they've been able to be successful is that he does all that other stuff, right? Even the practice schedule part of it. I remember hearing stories about his first year in Pittsburgh and how guys just loathed practice.

and just the amount of resentment that he built up because of how hard they were practicing continuously in the summer. And they had veteran leaders have to go to him and be like, listen, Mike, we can't do this this way anymore. Like, we're going to run out of gas. You're going to run us into the ground. And he was open to that sort of feedback. But then you think about the way that those practices are actually structured in Pittsburgh during training camp. He'll do one-on-ones and he'll put like Minka Fitzpatrick covering George Pickens in one-on-ones. and there's like, he'll talk about it afterwards, and he doesn't give anything away, but he's like,

we do everything for a reason. And we do all this stuff for a reason. That is happening for a very specific, like, pointed thing that we're trying to accomplish. And I think that those little things are lost when you're just thinking about who draws the best plays on the paper. And there's just no way to understand it when you're not around it. I haven't been around it, but you pick up on those small things when you watch teams practice, when you see how they operate. And for me, it feels like the biggest thing.

that separates these guys, the guys who are good coordinators, the guys who are good head coaches. Can you widen your lens? Can the scope of what you see appreciate control as it grows? Can you maintain the same authority and expertise over all of those different things? And I think that there are some guys that can just never do that. And there are some guys who succeed when they're trying to do that. And I honestly think that's why we've seen some guys be really successful as head coaches recently who aren't play callers. But what Dan Campbell has done is he's been able to kind of step away from that and just say, like, I set the building, I set the tone, I make in-game decisions, that's who I am.

The same goes for Nick Siriani. And what Nick Siriani has done in Philadelphia, I think Nick would tell you that he is a better head coach playing and play out in terms of how they build the plan there, then he would be if he was calling the offensive plays. And I think that's interesting. Yeah, no, I mean, it is. I mean, you know, I remember the first year that Nagy was in Chicago, 2018. One coach, one NFL coach of the year, we were 12 and 4 should have been 14 and 2. And I remember the first couple weeks going to his office and just chatting because we had, you know, he's my quarterback coach in Casey. And just like, hey, how's it going?

Just me asking them. Just like friends. Like, hey, how are you doing? He's like, man, like this is like the first couple weeks on job. Like, this is insane. Like, just everything that we're dealing with. like I don't care what food we serve for lunch, but they're asking me about it. And so it's just like those details.

That's the job. And so I think with these first time head coaches that do handle play calling, which is what they're especially offensive play call, which is what they're calling card for, the other little things could slip through the cracks. So the Siriani, the Dan Campbell, even Nagy got to a point in 2018 and 19 where you did a lot better and you have to, you know, offload some of these jobs on, on other people. And I think that's the best way moving forward because you're going to get, you're going to get burned out because it's 24-7, 365. You have to have other people that you trust around you. And I think the biggest thing for

head coach, you have to hire a good staff. Yeah. You have to hire a staff that you trust, your offensive play caller, your defensive play caller, and say, hey, I'm still going to have my hands in offense and defense, but you two coordinators, you coordinate. You do your actual job. I'll oversee it. I'll make in-game decisions, all do all this other stuff, all set the vision of the organization, and we're going to go and we're going to lockstep and we're not going to deviate from that. To me, those are the best type of head coaches. This might be a hard question to answer. When you're practicing, you're going through a practice and you can feel the tone of the practice, how a certain team practices. How much of that do you

think is dictated by individual position coaches collectively and how much of you think that is dictated by the head coach coming all the way on down? I'm sure it's a little bit of both. But like, who do you think, in terms of setting, what a team feels like. Do you think the staff does that more than the head coach collectively, or do you think the head coach still has the biggest influence on what that is? I think it's the head coach without a doubt, man, like without a doubt. And with practice, the head coach sets it. I mean, like, it's like you can start trusting your coordinators as you go in, but I guarantee the first couple years of guys, like, they're going to want it to be done

their way and they're going to coach, they can coach up these coaches on how to talk to these players and how he sees this vision being portrayed among the players. And then those coordinators and position coaches can go out to their players and do it. So it's a trickle down effect if that makes sense. But you do, that's the thing. You do have to have, you got to have good guys, man, on a staff. Because if you don't have good guys, and you're constantly worrying about are those guys doing their job?

Are those guys portraying what I want portrayed to the team? And those are the best head coaches I've been around as they'll pop into meetings, like stay for three or four minutes, hang in. Hey, how you doing? How you like the plan? Okay, cool. They're constantly taking feedback. All right, let's stick with Carolina and the dynamic there for a bit.

Along with firing Frank Reich, they also fire Josh McCown and Duce Staley. And that puts a guy like Andy Dalton in a pretty interesting position, right? They fire the quarterbacks coach. You're brought in as this mentor for a rookie quarterback, and it has been nothing but awful since you arrived in terms of how it's gone on offense. And I want to talk about this. day to day of that role, which you're very familiar with. You did that for Mitchell Trabiski in Chicago. You did that for Justin Herbert in Los Angeles, even though it was his second year.

You were brought in as a mentor figure, right? Somebody to kind of help that young quarterback along early in his career. So how can a veteran in that position specifically help a young quarterback in a situation like Carolina is looking at right now? Yeah, it's, I mean, Bryce Young's definitely going to remember his first season in the NFL, man. It is it is not going good. But I think, like an Andy Dalton or myself, I think the biggest thing when going into a team, when you sort of know you're that veteran mentor and they're going to go with a young guy, you got to really gain the trust of the starter and of the young guy. So that's what Andy Dalton has done.

And you can just see it. Like, you've got to be able to, you can't go in and be like, hey, I've done this in my career. You should trust me. That's not how it works. Like, that's not how it works. You have to build a relationship. with the starter and the backup. And then you can start mentoring him along the way saying,

hey, look, this is sort of the scheduled during the week on what I did. This is sort of what worked for me. How do you feel about this? Do you want to do this? Look, we're going to come in on Tuesdays from 8 to 3, even though it's an off day and this is what we've watched. This is how we've watched. This is exactly the order on what we, like so when you build that relationship and then,

you know, these starters, these young starters, trust this mentor, that's when you see the relationship flourish. And you can see when Bryce comes off the field, he's going to Andy. Like when Mitch came off the field, he's going to me or Justin came off field, he's going to me, hey, what did you see, Chase? Here you go. So I think that's when you start to build that trust. And there's a lot involved in it. And it's not just, it's not just like the game of football either. I think people lose that because within the building, the NFL building is really, is really unique. It's a dynamic sort of atmosphere. And when the starter during season is focused purely, he's just focused purely on the game and the game plan. So all this other crap that comes

through, you're sort of the filter. Like people come to you, equipment guys. Um, I've had like nutritionists. I've had athletic trainers. I've had other coaching coaches like tight in coaches, running back coaches, come up to me because they don't want to bother Justin or they don't want to bother Bryce. It's not because they're not scared of them. They just understand that dynamic. So as a backup, you're sort of like a politician in a way that you have to pick and choose what to say to the starter and how to say it to the starter in a way that is, one, not going to piss them off because you know they just want to focus on ball.

And two, in a way that could possibly help the team. So there's been a lot of situations where I've just been like, that doesn't matter. I'm not bringing that to him. I won't say that to him. I'll be like, oh, yeah, I'll be like, I'm for sure saying that to, you know. So it's a, it's a slippery road. And I think when you're around the league long enough, like at least for me, I can't speak for Andy, but at least for me, you know how to filter and what to filter and what to bring to the starter and what the starter is going to want and need. And I think that's to me what makes the position of backup quarterback so unique and this mentor as well. How do you decide how force will to be with going to

that person with some of this help. Like early on, I'm sure there's part of you that hangs back, gauges, how much do they want, when do they want it? How do you figure out how much you should be presenting some of this information and how much you should be waiting for those questions to come your way? On every team I've been on where I've been this veteran mentor, I've always, for the most part, just sat back and listened and just let the quarterback talk, let the offensive coordinator in the in the quarterback coach talk and then just and I'll all I'll pop in and as soon as I get a

good feel for the room because every quarterback room is different every quarterback room is different there's not one the same and you got to know there's sort of an alpha in the room a lot of times it's a starter a lot of times it can be the backup because the started just doesn't really want to talk so you got to almost you almost have to understand what this starter's thinking and then voice it you have to be the voice of reason in the room to the quarterback coach and the the offensive coordinator. Like a lot of that happens, man. It's like it really is being a politician.

So I think for me, at least me personally, I waited a little bit. And I just sort of saw and sort of, I tried to just get to know the person, you know, the starter. And then I can be like, okay. And then I might ask questions in a right way that would be like, okay, cool, I got you, man. And then you just sort of roll. And that's how Justin and I were.

And that's why it works so well for those two years. What are you trying to deflect in those conversations with the quarterback coach and the offensive coordinator? Is it? And this isn't, we don't really like this versus this. I don't know if that's going to work. Is it working through some of those details? What are you trying to do exactly?

Are you trying to say stuff through the quarterback? Are you trying to filter some of that information out? Like, what does that politicking look like? What's the end game, I guess is what I'm asking? Yeah, the end game for me was always to make the starter feel the most comfortable within the scheme and the play design and the concepts and the gameplay. that is it and quite honestly toward the end of my career because I had built up so much goodwill and people had known that hey this chase guy sort of knows what he's talking about we trust him he's been with some really good head coaches I would just be blunt I was so sick and tired of the

politics within the room I'd be like hey like he doesn't like we're not let's not run that we're not doing it like it just doesn't make sense to me like as easy as blunt of that now I wasn't always that way you know when I was a little bit younger I would say it in a way I've always been really outspoken. And I think that's why a lot of teams have brought me in just because you're outspoken, but in a way that's courteous, respectful, but also you know your stuff, man. Like, you're studying. You have to prove that you know your stuff way more than a player. And so I think my, at least what I hoped my words carried weight. And then, but yeah, at the end of my, at the end of my time in the NFL, I was just telling it how it is. I was so sick and tired of

that politics stuff. Well, in, in Los Angeles specifically, it felt like that would have been easy because you and Joe go back so far. So when you're sitting there in the offensive meeting room, that's probably easy to do even if you don't know the head coach very well. And it also seems like Justin's personality lends to that, right, where you probably had to speak up for him a little bit, especially in his first year in the system, where maybe he wasn't willing to advocate for himself early on in the way that he might have been by year two. Yeah, it's a fair assessment. And I think that's what I've always sort of been, is I've been brought in by coaches that know me. And so that trusts my decision making. So they expect that.

actually out of me in the quarterback room is, hey, what do you see? Because they're so, like these offensive coordinators and quarterback coaches, they're so dialed in to the current game plan that sometimes their lens, like you said earlier, doesn't widen on like, hey, well, we should probably marry this up with this run game formation. Or, hey, we have this same play in, but it's out of the wrong personnel. Or, hey, we have this out of multiple personnel. Let's just do 21 and 12. All those things, and it's different from room to room.

That's sort of how the dynamic works. that it makes sense that you'd be comfortable kind of operating that way with Lombardi. But when you were in Chicago, even if you knew Nagy, you'd probably didn't know Mark Alfrisch before you got there. You probably didn't know Dave Ruggome when you got there. So how do you get to that place? Like, how do you get to a place where you feel comfortable kind of asserting yourself in those moments when you don't have a previous relationship with those guys? I just think it's all built on trust. And that's why, but honestly, like, it's built on trust. And the coordinator's got to trust you. You got to trust a coordinator. But at the same time,

if you're bringing a guy like Andy Dalton in, you know he's been around. He's thrown for a ton of yards. He knows what he's talking about. So automatically, when a guy like that walks in, you have a higher hearsay, or you have a higher like hierarchy in that room

just because you've done it, man. Like you've done it. It's all built on experience. So like right away with Andy, you can tell he probably just is like, hey, this is how it is. And how can you not trust a guy like that? He's been around.

He's done it. So the Andy Dalton example is a perfect example for me. How were the questions that Mitch would come to you with and Justin would come to you with different? Well, I think, first of all, two totally completely different offenses. And so a lot of the times, at least with Mitch, Mitch didn't have that crazy successful, was it 2017 was his rookie year? Yeah. Yes.

He didn't have this crazy successful 2017 rookie year like Justin Herbert did in 2020. So there's a big difference. Whereas Mitch probably wanted more help in, hey, the, the schematics of how we're going about a week. Let's set a schedule. Let's get something that really promotes. You did this with Drew. You did this with Alex. Like, how did they do it?

Like a lot of those type of questions. And then obviously with the scheme came that because I was with Nagy. Whereas Justin was more, hey, like, look, what schedule do you think fits? I sort of have this. Now, let's just get right back. into scheme because look, I'm trying to learn a new offense for the second time in two years playing. I had an offensive rookie of the year. Like, he didn't need any of that help from the playing side. He, he really, what I admired about him was he always came to me and I'm like,

hey, like, what do you think about this? How do you, how do you see this read happening? How do you think I should talk to this receiver about this? Like all the outside things other than football is what really Justin focused on. That makes a lot of sense. And that's something that obviously you've got a perspective seeing a bunch of different guys do it. So, you know, Andy Dalton is an interesting spot, as I'm sure you have been in multiple times in your career in that role. So something to keep an eye on here as we get toward the end of the season in Carolina where he is going to be partially backup quarterback.

I'm assuming partially quarterback coach as well over the next two months. Chase Daniel, always a pleasure, my friend. Thank you very much. Thank you to everyone for listening. We will be back next week. In the meantime, please continue to check out everything else on the athletic football show feed, Dane's first mock draft is out on the athletic. They broke all of that down on Prospects to Prosos this week.

So definitely check that out. Please come back for our week 13 preview. We've got a great Thursday night football game this week that we'll be breaking down live on YouTube shortly after that wraps up. So please check that out as well. For now, sincerely appreciate you guys. Listen, we will talk to you very soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.