The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In The Pocket: Lamar Jackson enters the MVP race, Kirk Cousins balls out, and the trade deadline effect in NFL locker rooms

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Any list of top quarterback performance to date this season has to include what Lamar Jackson and Kirk Cousins did in Week 7. Robert Mays and Chase Daniel break down those performances on this episode of The Athletic Football Show's In The Pocket. The guys also discuss trade deadline dynamics in the locker room, on-field histrionics from quarterbacks, and the continued uncertainty surrounding Deshaun Watson's playing status.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/MAYS and get on your way to being your best self.Show Burrow you’re listening to The Athletic Football Show by shopping at burrow.com/mays and get 10 percent off your first order. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. The athletic football show in this edition of In the Pocket. I'm Robert Mays joining me today in his long time. NFL quarterback, Chase Daniel. Chase, how you doing, man? Good, man, good, good. Excited about this show. We got a lot to talk about, a lot to get into.

But it was a good week of football, I thought, for the most part. It absolutely was. Sunday was probably the most fun I've had watching NFL games all season. It seemed like every single game had something interesting happened. And as a result of that, we are going to talk about specific. a couple of performances from Sunday, one that we dug into in our Sunday night recap show, but I definitely wanted your perspective on.

And that is the monstrous day that Lamar Jackson had against a lion's defense that had been playing very well over the first six weeks of the season or so. And it really did feel like everything came together for that Ravens offense. And I just wanted to ask you kind of on a broad level, what stood out to you about their performance on offense on Sunday and specifically the way that Lamar played? Well, everything stood out for me on this.

Lamar Jackson led offense because in my opinion, they did everything right. I've been in a bunch of these games, well, not a bunch, but some of these games, when you're on the sideline and you're in the offensive coordinator, and it just is like everything you call is working. And it's not like stuff was covered and he was just making some of these. I mean, he made some amazing throws. But the dude was just straight up bawling. And then you've got to give it to Tom Munkin because stuff was like wide open. I mean, I actually broke down both quarterbacks for this game. game for these quarterback breakdowns I'm doing. And I started with Jared Gough, okay? And the only reason I'm bringing up Jared Gough is because 10 plays into the game. I look at the scoreboard and it's 28 to

nothing. The Lions had run 10 place. How do you play quarterback if you're on the other side of what Lamar Jackson did? I mean, it's not like, first of all, you're one dimensional. Like, you got to throw the ball every time. So, so like what Lamar did to me would separate like he had been playing honestly pretty well all season long. Everyone knows what that defense is doing. I mean that that Ravens defense is number one in almost every category, which unequivocally, in my opinion right now, the best defense. So when you have a defense like that and you have a new offensive coordinator, you have a little bit of time to sort of get going and figure out what you're good at, figure out what your identity is out. And boy, did they ever figure it out right now. And it's just like Lamar Jackson. The only thing I had an issue with

early in the year, because I've actually watched Lamar and I've really just watched his growth within the offense was those receivers. Those receivers, I think they had a 5.7% drop rate, which ranked third in the league going into that game. So they were not helping out Lamar whatsoever. You have Mark Andrews, you have the running backs making plays. I thought that offensive line played really well. But that was my main story. And then you watch and you see what Zay Flowers did. Obie J had a couple catches for some big yards. And then honestly, in my humble opinion, I didn't watch a lot of them, but Rashad Bateman looked like a guy, and he probably had his best game in terms of what he put on on film,

even if he wasn't like getting the ball, the route running that I saw, the speed, the explosiveness. It was his best game in a Raven uniform by far. I think that that trio on the field healthy together, how different it feels to watch the Ravens' offense when you have those guys out there compared to what it felt like last year, for example? It's just night and day. The play that I go back to is, there's several of them, but the third and long on the deep comeback route that Dave Flowers hit and how the fact that that is wide open because of how he's threatening the corner vertically, that amount of just juice, speed, explosiveness that they have when all three of those guys are out there at the same time is night and day when you compare it to the Ravens' offenses over the last couple of years.

Well, and then that's what you want as a quarterback. You have to have guys, I mean, they're sort of following that juice, that speed, that exclusiveness of what KC had for a long time with Tyree Kill and all those guys. And that's sort of the path they're going. And they're all pretty young guys other than OBJ, which OBJ is not going to ever be, again, in my opinion, some 10, 12, 15 target guy when you got those other guys, he's a really good compliment. I thought he made a lot of hay in the slot and did some good things in the middle of the field. But when you have that juice and you have Zayflowers, And I go back to that comeback because, first of all, it just looked like Lamar pocket passer.

He'd been doing it and just like so easy. One, two, three, four, five, one hitch, a little bit of air. It doesn't have to drive it. It's wide open on the silent. He makes a good catch. And then I just paused the film because I saw Dan Campbell standing legitimately right there with his little play call sheet attached to his belt blowing in the wind. And the look on his face, he just looks back to the ref and looks at them. It's just like so pissed off.

Like, that's the best thing. Like, when you're next level watching games, I'm sure you know, like, I like watching sideline stuff. Like, I get more, like, out watching sideline and just everything about that play, the way the lines were playing, it just, the breath, just like the air went out of their lungs. And it's just like, man, it's going to be one of those days. I just love, Zay Flowers, I think he's going to be a really good player. I already love watching him play. The amount of gravity that he has also changes the way that they can play offense. When he's pulling safeties on these.

vertical routes and it creates so much space in the middle of the field. And for Lamar specifically, I think that's important because we underrate, I think, as like a football watching community, how good of a pure thrower he is to that area of the field. The first deep dig that he hit to Zay Flowers on the opening drive of the game, the touch he puts on that ball, the arm angle within a condensing pocket in that moment. I've made this comparison a bunch of different times in the past. But the guy he reminds me of on some of those throws, he has like Stafford-esque elements to the way he throws the ball.

Some of the arm angle stuff, the way that he can put touch on those throws without stepping into him as the pocket is closing in around him. And that's why this is cool to watch because you're getting to see so many more examples of him shining as that pure pocket passer within this offense. And if he can do that to this level combined with sort of the off-schedule playmaking, and he's not, running as much, but I thought in this game, the examples of it were really telling. It's picking up three yards on third and three. It's buying a little bit more time in the pocket when something isn't there to find Nelson Aguilor for that touchdown. So it's not an offense built around his legs, but it's his legs selectively in high leverage moments compared with kind of an unearthed potential of him as a pocket passer that now we're really getting to fully understand for the

first time. All of that together is exciting as hell. I mean, and it, it thrusts him right into the MVP conversation because there's right now the way he's playing, right? It just doesn't, it doesn't get any better than what you're doing right now. And as far as like arm angles, like, when I look at really good quarterbacks, especially like Lamar Jackson throughout the entire league, one thing that stands out, how effortless they are throwing the football. And it's just unreal in my, in my opinion, because like, he, the ease. which he just lets these balls go and it's a tight spiral. It's got touch when he needs to.

It's just like throwing these comebacks to Zayflower, throwing these balls over the middle. And you want to talk about like using his legs in selective situations, right? I had my phone out and I timed the play when I was breaking it down on the, the scramble for Nelson Aguilar, eight and a half seconds. I'm like, if you, if you're trying to cover as a defense for three seconds, okay, much less eight and a half seconds, like, you're screwed. Like, what do you want to do?

Like, there's nothing you can do. Eventually someone's going to go open, especially in the red zone. That's the type of dynamics that he brings to this situation. And like we said, like I mentioned earlier, when I started this answer, like, it just thrust him into the MVP conversation. What I love is that it's also a subtle influence on the game, his legs, even if he's not the same type of runner and it's the same volume of running that we saw in years past. Dan Campbell came out after the game and said, we wanted to stop him from.

running the ball. That was the foundation of our defensive game plan. And if you look at the way the Lions played, it was all man and cover three. They played in single high, essentially, the entire game. So beyond the Ravens using a lot of heavy personnel to get them in base defense, even when they were nickel personnel, it's still a lot of single high because they're worried about what Lamar can do and about what that Ravens running game can do. So that's just one more layer to them getting more opportunities and potentially taking advantage of more opportunities when they drop back to pass. So everything feels like it's coming together right now. And I wanted to ask you because I was so excited about watching this offense. It was the number one thing I was

looking forward to about the NFL this season. That's not an exaggeration. Was what Lamar would look like with Todd Monkin with these receivers. And now we're starting to get glimpses of it. when you have that, when you have a wildly different personnel setting, when you have a new offensive coordinator, how long do you think it takes for it all to come together and for a quarterback to be truly comfortable with what that looks like? I know, I'm sure it's different every time, but on a general level, I'm curious. Well, it's different by every situation. That's a great, that's a great answer. And it really comes down to at the end of the day, this offensive coordinator Todd Monkin.

Is he installing plays that only he knows and he brought from George and he brought from those spots? Or is he really keeping a bulk of the offense that the Ravens did, especially the quarterback run game, the naked bootleg game, the play action game, which it looks like he has, and then putting his own spin on that. If that's the case, then Lamar feels really comfortable in it right away.

And that looks like what it's happening right here. And maybe it's being coached a little bit differently to say, hey, just stay in the pocket a little bit longer, let these routes develop. what I'm seeing that is different from last year in years past of Lamar, they're throwing more intermediate to deeper routes, right, in the middle of the field. I hadn't seen that from him. And I didn't break it down like all these last two or three years like you have,

but I have not seen those deeper like the dig route to Dayflowers or like the comeback. There was like a post comeback that he hit or like all this different stuff. He's letting him throw these intermediate to deeper routes down the field. And no one wants to rush. You saw this like when Lamar, was rolling, when Mike Vick was rolling, when Russell Wilson was back in his heyday, they all just must rush, right? And like, no one runs to rush past Lamar. So when you must rush, if you have a good center and two guards, that's what we call it, mush rush. You're looking to me like I'm crazy,

but it's just like, keep everyone in the middle. And if you have a sinner and two guards that can just withstand that and you have tackles that just like, hey, just hold your own because they're going to try to come inside. They're not trying to go outside of you. It just gives you a lot more time in the pocket. And I, and that's, I've never understood that because if you rush past Lamar, you rush past Mike Vic and his prime or Russell, they were going to make you pay with their legs nowadays. And now, and now on this offense, which was a little bit different, he's just standing in the pocket. And it's not just because he wants to be a pocket because he has no pressure. Like, I don't know if it's, if it's the mush rushes from all these other teams.

Is it because the offensive line, which we got to give credit, give them their flowers? They're playing really well too. And like, I don't know. That's the, that's the one I go back and before then I don't know what the difference is. When you were saying about the intermediate to deep routes developing, the offensive line is the first thing that I was going to mention, they were fantastic on Sunday. And especially the interior. Morgan Moses had his moments with Aidan Hutchinson,

who's playing in a Pro Bowl level. That's going to happen. But Ronnie Stanley being back and looking healthy, and then the interior of that offensive line, there were so many plays where you could pause it when he hits the top of his drop. And left to right, John Simpson, Tyler Linda Ball in the center, and Kevin's like or the right guard.

It's just a wall. He has so much space to operate. There was a play specifically, not necessarily a deep developing play, but the types of options they had within the offense. It was a second and long. He reads it front side. Nothing's there. He's able to come all the way back to Rashad Bateman on the backside and hit him on second and long for a first down. And so the deeper developing stuff, how deep he can get into his progression, everything changes when the offensive line is healthy and playing at the level that they are.

And it's just one more example, in my opinion, of everything coming together at the same time. Pass catching personnel, design, Lamar's comfort, Lamar's ability, and the offensive line. Every single one of those boxes gets checked, and this team looks like it does. And like you mentioned, now we're having conversations about Lamar where where does he fit in the quarterback pecking order when you look at him in this sort of situation? I mean, he's absolutely right now in the conversation for the most valuable player in the NFL so far this year. Him, Josh Allen, Mahomes, you know, maybe put Tua in there as well. But any discussion about the MVP right now through seven weeks, I absolutely think has to include the Mar Jackson based on the way that he's played.

He's on the short list without a doubt. And it just, it brings you back to, okay, the MVP, that's great. But then I look at just the AFC in general. And it's not really the power class that we were thinking that it might have been with. The bill's sort of faltering. I know the Bengals have been on by. So we didn't talk about them in eight days, but they won two straight going into it.

So they're going to be rolling. You get a healthy Joe Borough back. That'll be an interesting division, like always. And then it's the Chiefs. And then like who, like who else? Like Miami. Okay, Miami. Yeah.

Okay, Miami. But like in my opinion right now, AFC, like the Ravens have to be the second best team in the AFC, right? I mean, like in terms of just like what they've been doing with the way their defense is playing, the way Lamar is trending up. I mean, you put the dolphins in there too. But in my opinion, it's chiefs, right? Chiefs.

And then it's got to be like Ravens in there somewhere at two. or three. They're trending in the right direction. They were hurt at the beginning of the season. They've gotten progressively healthier. Buffalo's injury situations going the other way. And even if I think Buffalo's offense will be fine, but I do think that this is we're talking about. And they're playing on Thursday nights and we'll have a national spotlight for them. And obviously, Nate and I will break this down live after it happens. But Buffalo's struggle when teams of blitz them recently. They just have not had very good answers. And so I think there's some things to look out with the offense, but mostly it's the injuries on defense. Baltimore's going the

exact other direction. If they've gotten healthier on defense, they're secondary has gotten back. So I just think on both sides of the ball right now, it's hard not to feel really good about them. But when it all comes down to it, it's number eight and the way that he's operating with everything they're asking him to do. That's really the source of a lot of this excitement because it answers so many questions about who can he be when you drop him into these sort of circumstances?

The answer? One of the best players in the league. Full stop. Easily. Yeah, not even a question. I totally agree. There's nothing else to add because it is at the end of the day. Like, I mean, that was, that was probably the, the best performance of the week in terms of just like the most surprising performance.

Because I'm going to be honest. I pick the lions. Like, I'm on NFL networks on Friday on Total Access and they, they asked me to pick games, which I hate picking games. I was like, all right, like, the lions are playing. And I'm just like, all right, the lion. And then, like, you know, I don't think it says as much about the lions as it does about what Baltimore and Lamar are doing. And for them to go in and beat a top. Okay, people forget about this.

Like, I go back to it. The lines were a top 10 defense. Like, they had made huge strides from years past with Aaron Glenn and the way they had changed personnel, the way they had changed scheme, the way they're playing together. And they got Molly Wopped on Sunday. So it'll be interesting to see how they bounce back from as well. Lamar had the biggest performance of the weekend. You look at pretty much any stat. He had the best EPA per drop back.

They were absolutely rolling. In the top three was Kurt Cousins and that performance that he had against the team. San Francisco 49ers defense. We've seen the Vikings operated a high level on offense, throwing the football, whatever. To do it against the Niners, the way that they did, I thought was one of the best performances of the entire week. And we didn't really get a chance to talk about it so far because it happened on Monday night. You go back and watch Kirk against San Francisco on Monday night. What was the number one thing that stood out to you when you rewatch that game?

Zero pressure up front affecting Kirk Cousins. And it's not like, I don't understand. I don't think people understand, and we're going to try to tell you, because we dive deep in the weeds in this show. And it's like, it's not about sex. It is not about sex. It is about pressure rate in affecting the quarterback. And boy, Kirk Cousins, like, he threw it 45 times, okay? And there's one scramble.

So I think they called 46 to 47 pass plays. And maybe on three to four, he was sped up out of 47. And you're talking about the vaunted Niner gang pass. rush that couldn't get home. Now, I don't know if it's because the, like the, the, Kirk Cousins led Minnesota Vikings offensive line with that Kirkgo Chains guy going on that. They got some magic voodoo that all of a sudden the offensive line is playing like at lights out level or if it was because it was a master class of play calling and audible checking in general by Kevin O'Connell and Kurt Cousins.

Number one thing that stood out. He operated. Kurt Cousins operated at the line of scrimmage better than I've seen a quarterback in the past few years. They were up ready. They were set. They were getting reads on what San Francisco was doing defensively. And they were audiblying at the line. I'm telling you, I saw like 20 to 40 plays that was an audible, a check with me. Hey, yelling it out. What are we doing? Let's do this. To me, that is how I enjoy playing quarterback because I know I'm going to get in the right call at the right time. and then eventually the 49ers figured it out three quarters too late because they sort of shut them down halfway through the third quarter into the fourth quarter because as soon as Kirk Cousins would check, they would end up saying, no, no, no, check, check, check.

You saw Fred Warner saying, hey, playing a guitar that's play it, checking all these different things. So they made the adjustments, but Minnesota definitely won that game in terms of just like the mind and the mental battle. It's so funny that you say all this because it's exactly what I wanted to ask you about, with his operation at the line of scrimmage. And another example, Kevin O'Connell comes in, new offense, okay? They comes from the Rams. They had all that success when they won the Super Bowl.

It's like, all right away. We just want them to hit the ground run. We want everything to come together right away. And for so many reasons, it's just never going to be like that. So I think a couple different things that feel different about this Vikings' offense compared to what they looked like last year, even when they had some really nice moments. They won 13 games. But on a down-to-down level, the offense was not necessary.

nearly as good as the final record would lead you to believe. The offensive line is playing better than it did last year. At Ingram, their right guard was a huge, huge, huge liability last year. Just full stop. He was a huge liability. He's been a little bit better. They've gotten better play from the interior of the offensive line in general. The tackles are very good.

So the past protection is just better than it was last year. And I think that is a hugely important thing. I also think that Kevin O'Connell did a fantastic job on Monday with help. all the chips, all the late releases, just being so conscious about how we're going to give our tackle specifically a lot of help. So if we're chipping on the edges on almost every single play, we've got three over two on the interior, and we're going to have time no matter what happens.

But the other side of this is how much more comfortable Kurt Cousins clearly is with the pre-snap operation within the offense. And we know within that Shanahan system, and especially the way that Sean McVeigh has been trying to do it over the last few years. How much shit do you get as a quarterback in the huddle? You get two plays, you get all these different motions, and there's just a million different things happening. And he seemed so in command of what they needed to get into and why. And that takes a while.

Now we're a season and a half into this, and you can just feel the amount of enhanced comfort and confidence he has with what he's seeing. and I think the fact that that's how he's feeling and he has all those options, you're going to see this more or more where they just seem to consistently be getting into the right place. Well, and that's what Kevin O'Connell wants to do. That's how he wants to operate. And like you said, it took a year and a half. And I think they had been doing that a lot more this year. And then what makes it even more special is you did it without the best receiver in the game.

Right. Like, welcome to the nation. Like I'm going to announce you, Jordan Addison. Like the dude bald out like Kirk should have thrown a pick on that cover zero deep post. and Jordan's as it was like, no, I'm just going to take it to the crib. Like, like all these things, all these things matter because like if you get Justin Jefferson back and if you have a look at their schedule coming up, it's very winnable. Like, and then so we broke down in the show, it's like, hey, like early in a week is like,

hey, I think Kirk Cousin should be traded to the New York Jess. Like, okay, well, now they ain't shipping them off. Like, now they're shipping them off because the way they're playing, they just beat back-to-back wins. Their schedule is winnable. And it just goes back to say is like, I agree that Kevin O'Connell did a fantastic job, put on a master class of calling plays. But what I think allowed them and allowed him to be able to do that was the tempo at which that offense operated. They were the ones blitzing San Francisco on offense.

We talk about it on this show all the time is like, hey, how do you blitz go fast? Multiple shifts, multiple formations. They were doing man's own reads. They were just making sure they had it. And then they were getting to the line of scrimmage with 20. 20 to 25 seconds, be able to see what's happening. And I guarantee you it's happened before. And this is sort of what I was seeing watching the game from a trained eye was that Kevin O'Connell was in his ear, Kirk Cousin's ear while they were at the line. So Kirk was able to make some of those

checks. So not every single bit of these three play calls is on Kirk and for Kirk to get to the right play. So it was a good mix of like, hey, here's two plays. We're going to run to, we're going to have a run. We're going to kill it to a pass. And you're going to alert something versus man. because Sam Friend played a lot more man than I thought that they had, especially on second and long. So they had some good man beaters. And there were a couple man beaters that San Francisco checked out of, and they were running a mess route.

And he still just stayed with us and hit it. So it was just a good operation offensively for the Minnesota Vikings. Yeah, I loved it. And so many of the subtle things that they were doing. I believe the All 22 is kind of weird. It clicked in late. But in the touchdown, he threw to Addison in the first half. They were in empty with Cam Acres line up to the right.

he motions back in. They know it's zone. It's like, all right, this is what we have. I know this is going to work. The line back, the rail combination on that was beautiful. Like it just,

it played with Drake Greenlaw and exactly the right ways in that zone coverage. And then other times in the game as well, I think there was a third down in the second half. They're in empty with acres out there. Corner follows them. It's like, all right, we got zone. They have a nice little in breaker against cover two.

Like everything that they were doing in terms of the calls, but also how they were gathering information and the options they had after gathering that information, it was just clicking so well. And it's an example to me and a reminder to me, when you know you're in the right place and when you're putting him in a good situation, that dude can fucking sling it. Like he really can. And it's, he is, and this is not a dig at Kirk Cousins. I think this is true for most quarterbacks, but he's almost the purest expression of it to me. He is dependent on the circumstances around him. He's just not a creator. So protection is hugely important.

Having answers within the play is hugely important. But when you give him those two things, he can play at an extremely high level. And I think that's what we've seen from him so far this year. They've given him answers in a ton of different areas. And that's led to him playing, honestly, like some of the best football he's played over the last several seasons. Yeah.

No, I totally agree with that. And that is the case with these quarterbacks, like especially non-creators because a pocket passer can still exist. but you have to be very mentally smart because if you're not, if you're not a creator, if you're not going to be like a Patrick Holmes wizard outside of the huddle, you've got to have these answers and you've got to be able to handle it mentally. I mean, everyone watched a quarterback documentary in the offseason and I just continue to go back to Kirk Cousins. Like he's just constantly memorizing plays. And that just reminds me a lot of myself. It's like, hey,

in these wordy offenses, you want to make sure that you can control what you can control. And you can't control that you're not a Patrick Mahomes wizard outside of, right? You can control. this is, I'm going to be the best person I can be and this is how I need to get there. And I think that goes without saying is like he's really mastered that. He knows his limitations. He knows his weaknesses, but he also knows his strengths. And what I've been around in quarterback rooms around the league is those guys that know what their strengths are and continue to make their strengths and work on their strengths even better, that in my opinion, rather than working on your weaknesses, if you just focus on your strengths and continue to make those better,

That's what makes a really, really good passer in my opinion. Let's talk about those strengths a little bit more. What about Kirk Cousins' game do I not appreciate enough as an average NFL fan watching him play? I just think how, I mean, we've talked about how he operates, how he operates. It just looks ho-hum on TV like, all right, there's up there running a play, but there's so much intricacies like getting the play from Kevin O'Connell, which sometimes is three plays. We talked about it.

It can be a pass, alert to a pass, and then, hey, kill it versus man to this run or something. like whatever it may be. It could be three plays, right? And so Kirk's having to understand, hey, of the three plays, I only need to call two. I need to call the formation. I need to tell everyone what to do. I need to actually go into the huddle, command the huddle. I need to break it with 20 seconds so Kevin O'Connell can come into me and check something else that I might not know, that I might not see. And then, oh, by the way, I have to snap the ball. And then what coverage are they in? Are they blitzing? Or is it covered two? Oh, my gosh, I don't know. Oh, completion. Oh, got to do it again. Okay. Like, dude. Like over and over and over again against one of the best defenses in the league at the time was San Francisco. Like that to me makes me appreciate him from such a high level up. The other aspect of this that we did not mention, it's not quarterback related, but I do think it's important when you're trying to figure out the differences between this version of the Vikings offense and last year's version of the Vikings offense. They are fourth in the NFL in rushing success rate on handoffs to running backs. Why that's important is that quarterback run teams typically tend to be a little bit higher in that stat.

They are fourth in the NFL. Last year they were 20th. They led the league last season and the percentage of their rushes that went for zero or negative yardage. It was 25%. One of every four Vikings runs went for a tackle for loss. It is so hard to sustain offense when your running game looks like that. And they spent so much time, effort, focus this off season. I went up there multiple different times.

and having conversations with the staff on offense about what needed to change, we just need to be efficient running the ball. We don't need to be this hyper-explosive sort of running game. All we need to do is be efficient. Guess what? They are. They are efficient now. And so you combine that with the control, the command,

everything else that's happening in the passing game, even without Justin Jefferson in some of these moments. And I think their offense suddenly becomes, the very least intriguing in the back half of the season when you look at that kind of muddy collection of teams that are going to be fighting for that final wildcard spot in the NFC. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And that stat about the rushing is interesting because, you know, going into the game, they had played seven games with no rushing touchdowns. A fact, goose egg, no rushing touchdowns. And then they were, I think like 31st or 30th in the league in total rushing. So I went into the game saying, hey, maybe they need to just.

just give it up and just let Kirk throw. And he threw it 45 times. But actually looking back on some of their runs, they were like a two or four-yard gain. It wasn't like they were popping these crazy runs. Unlike the first play of the game was a 15-yard burst by the running back. But it was interesting to me in that standpoint of like hearing that stat and then thinking back on like what I saw.

And it's like, okay, all they have to be is efficient, especially with the trio of receivers they have. And I think that they, just a lot of smart stuff went playing against the Niners. screens, they hit a couple big screens, they hit a trick play, understanding that that team is going to get up field, how can we get some chunks against them? And some of the best stuff they did in the running game is just split zone. We're going to send a guy screaming across the formation. We're going to play with how aggressive these linebackers are.

We're going to see if we can get a six-yard gain out of it. It happened multiple different times. So I think that the scheme, just how they're thinking about the run game, Cam Acres being involved there now and just giving them a little bit of a different presence compared to what Alexander Madison is, a lot of different things falling into place. And the last thing, you've mentioned Jordan Addison, but I think it's important to point out,

the secondary pass catchers who are now primary with Justin Jefferson out, that is a different facet of this offense than it was last year. Hawkinson gets their mid-season, they're figuring out how to incorporate him into what they are. And then Addison, even if Adam Dillon's playing pretty well right now in Carolina, Addison gives them so much more explosiveness at that other receiver spot, so much more verticality that I think, again, it puts air within the defense. So now you have Hawkinson operating in that space because you have a secondary outside receiver

now that's just a different sort of presence than Thielen was for them. So watching it all kind of fall into place this way based on what their plan was this off season, it's exciting. Like it's just one of those things where it's nice to watch a plan come together. And that's kind of what this Vikings offense feels like right now. Yeah. I mean, and you hit it right on. I would say their offense is intriguing to watch because it,

Even their third receipt for KJ Osolmurn is no, like, he needs to get his flower suit because he can make plays as well. So they have, when they get JJ back, like they're going to have four really good pass catchers. If they can continue to keep Kirk Cousins upright, intriguing is the word I would use as well. I also think Hockinson is just pretty good. Like he consistently was winning one-on-one matches with linebackers in that game, whether it was Fred Warner or Drey Greenlaw. So watching him be that sort of presence where this is a plus matchup for us almost all. the time. It's huge. It's huge within your offense. You can construct things around him that really allow him to shine. And I think that we saw that this week. All right. Let's get to some more,

let's call them dynamic based conversations from stuff that happened this weekend, some things quarterback centric that are happening around the NFL. I wanted to ask you about what's going on with Deshaun Watson. And I don't, I want to be careful with this because when guys are hurt, you don't want to push them further than they have to go. You don't want to say, ah, he should be out there. We don't know. I don't know how Deshaun Watson is physically feeling right now at how much he's limited by that shoulder. You know, it's been a while since he got the injury. Multiple different reporters this week reminded us, it's a real injury. It is a real injury that he has. I'm sure no one told them that specifically. Anyway. Agent work right there. Yeah, maybe a little bit.

It's a real injury, but he was healthy enough to play on Sunday. He gets hit. He passes a concussion test and then doesn't go back in. If you're a member of that team and you watch how this is all unfolded over the last few weeks and then specifically on Sunday, what's going through your head as you see this? What the heck is going on? Like that, that, that, this is like, because when you, when you see this and when you see him get hurt or, you know, get hurt, obviously, and then, and then have this concussion pass the concussion test, but you leave the backup in.

it just tells me that maybe he wasn't, like, healthy enough to play in the first place at the end of the day. And then another point tells me, like, are they better off with PJ Walker? Like, does Deshaun playing that bad and does a coaching staff not have that much trust? But then I just go back to it at the end of the day, like, he may be cleared. But at the end of the day, if you're the quarterback stepping out on that field and you don't feel like you are ready to roll. Like, he may, for all we know, he may have been pushed into, like, dude, just try it out. just go out there and play. Like, we don't know the dynamics of when it went into the Colts game,

but it was interesting from a sideline perspective that, hey, the players didn't miss a beat. And I think that's like a lot of these times, a lot of these situations I've been in throughout the years that may, could be a little awkward. And you're wondering, like, what the hell's going on? As a player, you just say, hey, you know what? I don't get paid those big bucks. Like the people upstairs who's like making these decisions, like, I'm just going to agree with it. and whatever happens happens.

And sometimes it's different, but at the end of the day, I guarantee you those guys are just thinking like, hey, let's just keep winning. Like, we'd love to show them back. Like, that contract comes into focus even more now. And then, like, hey, we just really want to understand, like, what's going to be happening with us

as we go through this life because, like, we paid you a lot of money. And if you're hurt, you're hurt. I get it. But it's just a curious, it's a very curious situation that you have to be sort of careful around because you really don't know what the truth is. So Zach Jackson, our Browns reporter at the Athletic, just reported that Sean Watson has already ruled out this week.

So again, he will not be playing. PJ Walker will be starting for the Browns. I want to ask you about this, and I know this is difficult territory to kind of navigate sometimes, but when you know a guy's banged up but can play, how much of their, how much expectation is there among guys in the locker room that players will play through stuff,

that teammates will play through stuff? And if they don't, what is the reaction from guys typically? I think that has changed tremendously since I've been in the league. If you talk about 09, my rookie year 10, 11, even 12, like guys were expected to play. Like you, and it was like you felt this responsibility that I can't let my teammates down.

I'm going for the greater good. I'm going to try to push through it. I got to be a strong man. I got to be a strong player. something like that. And I would say that it's changed a little bit. I don't know why. I have no idea why. But I would say toward the end of my career and maybe year 10 through 14, it was like, all right, like, dude, I get it. Like if I'm in that situation, maybe a little empathy, I understand why I'm not playing. So I can't, I can't fault this guy for not playing. Now, there have been a few occasions. I'm not going to name names where you're like, okay, you're not hurt.

Like you're trying to milk it for an IR spot. You're trying to milk it for your stuff. You're trying to milk it for your split and you're trying to get a season under the under your belts and a crude season but very few and far between is that like if a guy's hurt that that's the crazy thing about like injuries it's so subjective because one guy can say hey I'm I think you're hurt and the guy that's actually hurt be like no dude you you have no clue what I'm going through the doctors might say something so I tend to believe maybe I'm naive maybe I'm naive enough not not the thing but I tend to believe when a teammate tells me that he's injured, like, I believe it. I take it for face value, especially toward the end of my career.

I'm like, bro, okay, like, whatever you need to do, like get yourself back, man, because we miss you, we need you. That's sort of the talk that goes on with the locker room. This idea that he just doesn't want to play anymore after getting that massive contract, and this is an excuse for him to kind of milk it for more than it's worth. I don't buy that. That's not where I'm trying to take this at all. I just wonder if there's something that's on the edge, how do guys around the locker

room feel? And that makes total sense because I think as a society, we've, kind of drifted further in that direction. And I think ultimately, that's a good thing. What makes this murkier and what makes this a little bit more of a strange situation is that there seemed to be some of these higher level decisions that are being made because of what they did to get him and what his standing is within the organization. And so you're a teammate and you're watching this all happen. And you already said it, you try not to concern yourself with some of those higher level conversations that are happening in a far-flung offices in the building that you don't

have to worry about. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly right. It's just like at the end of the day, like, I've always been, and maybe I'm old school, but like control what you can control. I can't control if my starting quarterback if I'm an offensive lineman is out. What I can control is doing my job. You got 10 other guys on the field that need to do their job in concert. That's why, in my opinion, it's the best, it's a greatest sport of all time because without those 10 other people, the quarterback, especially the quarterback, cannot be successful. Like bottom line. And then like there's another thing that goes to it is like, hey, you're starting it might not be, but PJ Walker's making a name for himself in that locker room right now. I'm telling you

right now he fought his ass off on Indy to get that win. And it was a back and forth game, the defense that we were talking about all world all of a sudden gives up 30 some odd points to Gardner Menshu Mania Colts. And then all of a sudden you're like, okay, well, we got to go win it, man. Like let's go. It was a craziest game. I mean, eight lead changes in that game, I think, which is like one of the tops of the last couple years. But you just go into that. he's making a name for himself in that locker room. He's gaining a lot of respect, not only in that locker room, but around the league on what he's going through, because at the end of the day, it puts PJ Walker in a bad spot for what Deshawn Watson's

going through, and it's not his fault, right? Like, it's not his fault, not Sean Watson's fault, but like, here's what goes through a backup's mind when the starter, you're not sure. And we talked about it along the show, am I playing? Oh, crap, I need to get some reps. Oh, no, I need to go out there, play. Like, he's just been cool, calm, collected, okay? And that's probably why they're starting him over DTR, because it was a little bit too much for DTR, right? Like, as a rookie to do that. And I just love PJ Walker's career arc played really well last year for Carolina and then go over here and go to Cleveland and be like, all right, bro, I'm the backup. Oh my gosh, I might be starting three or four games, five games now. You never know. So it's just a really good

opportunity for PJ Walker, too. How much is to just warm your heart when these backups play well and giving that opportunity? Like when you were watching Tyson Bayesian on Sunday, I'm sure that there was just the biggest smile on your face watching that dude would do, watch that dude do what he did in that game. I mean, dude, it was impressive, especially I have a soft spot. Okay, and there's not a lot, but I have a soft spot for backup quarterbacks that are undrafted like myself. Okay. So when I watched him play, I'm like, it's hard not to root for him. Because like he's just, first of all, he seems like a good dude. His dad's a 28 time world champion arm wrestler, amidextrous going left and right. Just he's never been out of his little town in

West Virginia is incredible to me. The idea that this dude just grew up there. He went to college there. Like that is where he has existed his entire life and is now just. just playing in Soldier Field on a Sunday. Starting for the Chicago Bears is insane. Yeah, in bald out. Like, it's just a good feel-good story. Honestly, and played pretty well, too. It was really impressive.

But yeah, if you're a backup, if you're undrafted and you get to play, like, consider me your biggest fan, no doubt about it. It's funny that his last game that he played was against the Colorado School of Mines. And everyone was making a lot of jokes about that. One, I've, my brother-in-law lives in Golden Colorado right next to the Colorado School of Minds. So I saw it all the time. But also, Colorado School of Minds had like a hugely influential role in the way that professional football is currently played. Because the way that the jet sweep evolved from college football, it started in this current iteration at the Colorado School of

the Mayans from Bob Stitt, who was the coach there. And then he eventually kept getting hired in college football. Yes, this is a very real thing. So if you think about the the way that we understand jet motion and specifically the little flip, the little flip pass out of jet motion, little jet sweep that we saw. That started from a guy at Colorado School of the Mind. So don't make punchline jokes about that school because it has been hugely influential in the NFL. I can't imagine that there are people who watched you in that game, let's say against Kansas in 2007 and decided that you weren't worth getting drafted. It's still crazy to me. I don't get it, man. I don't get it, you know, but honestly, it probably helped me because I was,

I was probably too cocky in college. And so it brought me down to life a little bit. You know what I'm saying and said, hey, you know what? My agent was like, you're not getting drafted. I'm like, why not? I'm only six foot. I'm up for the high's been twice. They're like, no, you're not getting drafted. Okay.

And then you just have to earn your stripes. She's got that chip on your shoulder. Still's there today, man. Still's there today. Let's keep going here. We got about a week until the trade deadline. It's on Halloween next week. And I wanted to ask you about just sort of the locker room feeling around this time of year.

So when a guy gets traded, I'm not sure how many times in your career you've been a part of something like this. But when you have a guy that, that is central to your locker room and he gets dealt. Let's say you're on the Titans right now. And you hear about the Kevin Byard news and the standing he has in that organization and has for years. What is the reaction if you're another veteran on a team like that right now?

Well, with the Titans, it's like, all right, we're blowing this thing up. We're starting over. Like, we're trying to get rid of dead money. I mean, let's just call it how it is. Like, players are not dumb. Like, players are not dumb. They get it. They understand.

And at the end of the day, you can control what you can control. You try to change the narrative around it. but at the same time you're like, all right, like, and if I'm front office, I sort of get it. You get a little bit older player, but then you have Philly willing to give up something for them that desperately need something. Like, you're not going to get a better deal than you are now. So I get why you do it. But at the same time, you're like, all right, well, if I'm like one of those key pieces in a locker room, especially Tennessee, all right, I'm in for a two to three year rebuild now, you know, and I'm not just saying that that's probably not the case. I think that's a

better team than a two to three year rebuild. But if you continue to do that and you continue to cut, players, older players, older veteran players in the off season and continue to sign younger guys. Eventually, that's what's going to go through your mind if you're a player. When you're in that situation and you know that your team is not actively trying to do everything it can to win, which is often smart, right? There's nothing wrong with that. I think that sometimes you need to understand where you are as a franchise. But when you're a guy in that locker room, how does it change the way you go to work every day? Well, listen, I've been in situations. I don't think that necessarily changes the way you go to work.

What I do think changes the situation when you go to work is that when you're in a toxic environment in a locker room or maybe that the front office is not on the same level as the head coach. Or you know that the head coach is going to get fired after the year. Like I think to me, I've been so blessed and so lucky to be a part of like just good organizations. Like very rarely have I ever been in a locker room where I'm just like, man, this really sucks and I hate going to work. And I'm, and I'm probably not the right person to ask because at heart, at my heart, like, I'm just a like crazy positive person. Like I can see the good. Like, you could, you could do something wildly illegal. And I'd be like, oh, that guy's fine. He's like,

I am like that type of guy. Like, I will always have like a soft spot. And my wife hates it. She's like, what like, you're not even realistic right now. But like you and me both, man. We're just fucking suckers. You and me both. I'm a sucker, dude. I'm a sucker. I'm a sucker. I'm a sucker and my wife's proved me wrong so many times and I still to this day like I just got a soft spot for people like I just I just love people like I just give them I'm just positive and so I tend to gravitate toward the positive nature of stuff so even if that stuff is going on in the locker room then I tend to be like okay well we can still turn around let's go guys you know but not like in a corny way but it's just like hey let's prove these guys wrong versus like hey let's okay they

they don't want to win right now let's prove them right you know what I'm saying so it's it's an interesting dynamic and I think every player is different and I think I don't know maybe I'm crazy but I think nowadays the players coming into the game really just don't care they just really just care about hey am I am I filming my workout today can I get some clicks on social media can I do this and do that not everyone's like that but a lot of more times I mean as I continue to like that's that's the old adage and old saying is like as I continue to get older these guys are just staying the same age because he just 20 year old rookie 20 year old rookie 21 year old it's just like and I just go 36 37 like I'm like man I'm just like and they're just staying the same age and it's just like

man I'm almost two decades older than you bro like I've been through three four CBAs like insane amount and so it's just the game is completely changed in that aspect and I think you're just going to see it even more if you want to talk really higher higher level picture from what nil is doing in college right now like it's just it's completely changing not only the the game of college, but how people and guys in general are prepared to go into the game because there's going to be some guys in college that go into pro that made more money in college and they're like, well, why am I even doing this? Like, I don't really love the game. Like, I'm in it for the money. Like, you'd be surprised how many people are like that.

What is the, when you're a 35-year-old backup and you've got, I'm trying to think of, like, Zion Johnson last year, right? Like, there's a moment where you got to actually like you have to be a teammate and create a relationship and you have to kind of figure out the dynamics of that. Where do you start trying to connect with guys that are 13, 14 years younger than you? Well, I have always gone back to like the ultimate thing is like what brings us together is football. So I base the relationship of like, hey, here's what I see you enjoy doing football and then I will just ask them about themselves. And most of the time they don't have people now. They just go up and ask like, hey, tell me about yourself, man. But you do it in a way that like,

you're trustworthy. And I feel like I've always been like a people person. So I've always been able to talk to anyone. Like I can talk. I can meet somebody in the subway and I'll be your best friend in 20 minutes. Like that's just how I am because that's just, and so I think I've had an easy time with it. But I do see guys struggle with it because you're like, well, you know, you're on Twitch streaming these games I've never heard of. And I have three kids and I'm responsible for a mortgage and I'm responsible for my wife. I have like all these different dynamics. Like I got to go do kid drop off while Zion's at home playing Xbox, you know? And so it's just like that dynamic. But at the end of the day, like, we're all there for the greater good. And I think if you can get to

know your teammates and take the time, because it's not just going to be like, hey, you're going to jump in first conversation. They're going to trust you and be like, oh, this guy's awesome. I do think because I was in the league for so long and had been a part of so many different teams and was well known around league circles as being a good backup, like I do think that helps get you into. to, hey, okay, this guy knows what he's talking about. This guy knows what he's doing. He's a great teammate. I see that.

Okay, let's be friends. There's so many relational dynamics that go into a, like a player-player relationship. That makes sense. So let's do the flip side of the trade conversation. Rather than a guy getting dealt away from your team, when you're on a team that trades for an impact player, what does that feel like? And the example that I go back to is a moment that I think was probably equally enjoyable for you and me. And that was when Kaleel Mack was traded to the Bears.

in 2018. What do you remember about that moment and just about walking back into the locker room for the first time after something like that happens? Well, that was on the long weekend, the Labor Day weekend when, you know, after cut day, it was actually like right around cut day. And I remember I remember this like like it was yesterday because, you know, looking back and it was probably a bad, bad idea. But my wife had a party on a Saturday, which was actually cut day.

And the party was for my kids first birthday. Preston's first birthday. It was like Preston's first fiesta. And we were just like, let's invite everyone. And everyone wanted to come over. We had just gotten a new house in Glenco, had a good backyard. And people started like RSVP and they're like, you know, you know, this is cut day, right? I was like, oh my gosh. And sure enough, there were people that came and had to leave halfway through the party and go. But I remember at that night, I think it was that night or the next day, the Cleo Mac trade broke. And we were like, okay. we are all in baby let's go because when a superstar gets dealt to your team and you see the front office going out there making moves and then fast forward to the first game against green bay and he just exploded onto the scene you were like man this is awesome like like it just it just lights a fire under you that probably I mean like we thought we were going to be really good but I think that it was probably a lot better moving forward after that what that first game I just will never, ever forget it. I've never felt better. I don't think watching a Bears game that I did over the first two quarters. I'm like, this is it.

Like, this is it. We are here. This is it. And then you watch the second two quarters and you watch the second half of that game. I'm like, nothing is different. Especially when Rogers went out, right? You were like, oh, we're good.

But then when he came back, I've always talked about it in these terms where he was like this mystical figure that just haunted me for most of my adult life. And that was, you didn't even need to pretend. It wasn't even like a stretch in that moment. In that moment, he was like a mystical figure that haunted me.

Yeah, it comes back. They win that game. Obviously, the 2018 season was what it was. It was a phenomenal ride. The defense was incredible. You know, misfueled go away from potentially making noise in the playoffs, whatever. But the fact that that game unfolded the way that it did, I will never, ever forget that. Last thing I wanted to talk to you about as a former quarterback watching what unfolded last week.

When you're watching Derek Carr on Thursday night, not his play, but his reaction to some of the stuff that happened on the field. Chew it out Chris Olavé, very demonstrative reactions multiple different times in that game. Let's say you're the backup on that team. You're James Winston, and you're watching that happen. What goes through your mind as you're watching that? Well, if I'm being completely honest, I don't love showing up. If you're a quarterback, I got to be really careful about how I'm, word this because in my opinion it's it's really important to me and I'll make sure I portray it right

and when I when I am a quarterback on the field I do not believe that you should show up your players on the field in a national TV audience bottom line however however if you're james winson you you you understand like hey the two of the three that derrick car went like ape shit on it was not Derek Carr's fault. And I get it. And it just to me, when I was watching it on film and I broke him down, a whole quarterback breakdown on him. And it was his guy just not being on the same page.

And I think it was just frustration building up and just finally went over. Because when have we ever talked about Derek Carr being as demonstrative as he was on Thursday night? He's just not that dude. Like he's fiery and stuff like that. And I think there's a fine line of like, like, really just like, oh man, like you guys, like if you just like help me out, like it's not going to be that bad and we're just so close. Like I feel like if they were a better offense and they were rolling that game and there's a misread here. A route run, a route is run, you know, not right or

something like that. Like I don't know if it would have built over like that, but I just think it's because of the way they had been playing. And you saw them two weeks ago with Pete Carmichle in this island going after it. And I think it comes from a, if you're Derek Carr, it comes. from a good place deep from within. And I think it just becomes a fact of like, okay, hey, I understand that what I did was wrong and I need to keep this internal like internalize it and maybe say something in a locker room on the sideline. But like, dude, I get like maybe I'm wrong. I get why he acted like he did because it's just like simple route concepts that I've been around forever that the guys just aren't doing it, doing it right. I mean, it's just like it stinks. So this is a window you can

provide that I really want to dig into here. What happens next? So the game's played on a Thursday night. You watch the film Friday morning. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You watch the film right away. You're in there Friday morning watching the film. What is the discussion that happens either in the quarterback room or the offensive meeting room when you're rewatching those plays and he's having those sorts of reactions? I think he probably talked to his guys. That's how I'm probably thinking. I'm thinking he probably watched it and rewatched it. And at the end of the day, it was like, yeah, that's probably not right. Like, I feel a little bit bad for that. And he probably just explained to them what was happening. And you got to move on. Like, you just got, you got to move on, bottom line. Like, like,

you know, they're still in a very winnable division. They're still not out of the race to the thick of it at all. And quite honestly, it's a different narrative if Derek Carr comes back to tie that game and Foster Roe makes the easy catch. It's a different narrative. You're like, I love that fire in Derek Carr, right? So you're a drop away from saying, hey, actually, I love that fire in Derek car. Receivers, running backs, tightens, you need to get on the same page as him

because he's the new quarterback here in town that we haven't had. We've had this offense in forever. So I think the narrative changes if Foster Morrow catches that and maybe they go for two. Like that's my whole thing. Like if he catches that, they're going for two to win the game. And if they win the game, they're like, all right.

You say that. I'm not sure about that with this current Saints coaching staff. I think that you're giving them a lot of credit in that moment. I'm not sure that happens. the ball, man. Like, do something cool out of Wildcat would taste them to score and win it. Let's go.

Have you ever been a part of something like that where there's kind of a what's clear the air here, a conversation that happens in a film session the day after? Yeah, it happens a lot more than people think. Like, honestly, a lot of these broadcasts don't catch all the stuff that goes on with the game because there's a thousand different cameras and there's a thousand different things that can go on.

And we've been in stuff where, hey, it's just like, maybe even like, here's a juicy one. maybe even the players in the offensive coordinator meeting room, and they're watching film the next day. And I've been a part of where the offensive coordinator is like, hey, guys, look, this loss is completely on me. I call the wrong plays at the wrong time. And just that accountability, right?

That accountability level, it just brings everyone closer together in the end because you still got a lot of games left. You still got 10, 11, 12 games left if you're playing into January and February, that you've got to get on the same page and you can't worry about one little mishap. And if you are, you're too sensitive. Like get back into the huddle, run to the, next play. Apologize, move on. Let's go win a game. That's, that's, that's what I'm a part of and what I'm used to. Is there anywhere you've been where there's like fines associated with stuff like

that? Like, if you have that sort of reaction, there's actually punitive stuff that you have to deal with. Oh, I mean, dude, like, when we were in the O line room, like the Chargers offensive line room, like they had a fine board. Like, they would find guys, like for like sensitive behavior. Like, they find Joe Lombardi every other day because Joe would get a little sensitive with something that Corey Lindley would say. And it was just like, it was actually like so funny. And there's a, I got fined for wearing a hat that they didn't like. Like, it was just like it's, it's fun. It's cool. And you can, it's like, you had this whole thing where you can go up and you can actually like appeal the fines and like, hey, and there's a judge, which I think was Corey at the time.

And they could go, hey, present your case. And they would find Staley like for stuff. Like, they would find everyone. It just, it actually was like a really fun thing to be around. And every, every offensive line I've ever been around. They always have fine board. So it's always the offensive line. What are we talking about 50 bucks, 100 bucks? What's sort of monetary values involved here? It depends on the infraction, man.

Like I've been a part of, I'm not going to say, I've been a part of not me, but where they find guys a thousand bucks be like, yo, we don't do that. Like, we don't do that. So that's, that's like real stuff, though. That's not the wrong hat. Yeah, wrong hat. Be like a $50 fine. I've seen a $100 fine.

I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, like fine pranks bro like that are so funny because I've been a part of I'm not going to say the locker room or the players Oh come on. No no no no no no but I've been

a part of where an offensive line group will go in and maybe a receiver had like a block in the back or like an unsportsman like conduct where they're just it's like a

it's poor kid It's like the fifth receiver on the team. He's making league minimum back in the day. And league minimum is like 300 grand. And this fine for unsportsmanlike conduct, maybe 35 grand. And you're like, oh my gosh, 10% of my salary is gone for one block. And I've had times where this offensive line group, they've gone into the equipment room and they've printed out. They've printed out what looks exactly like a fine letter from FedEx.

like identical to the NFL, placed it in this poor guy's locker, exactly how the guy from upstairs would place it in an envelope, and they'd open it, and this guy, everyone would be looking at him forever, because everyone knows he was being prank. And you look at him and you see this guy's face just dropped to the floor. And they won't tell him. Like, they won't tell him for a few hours. Like, it's one where he just got to sweat it through, walkthrough.

He's missing plays and walk through, dude. Like, stuff like this all the time happens. but it's just, it's just, it's just all fun, though. It's pretty funny, honestly. Offensive line is just a goddamn menace, man. Just individually and as a group, just an absolute menace. The fact that Corey is the judge there is just the least surprising thing of all time. I remember when Corey was a rookie and he was on that line with Josh Sitton and T.J. Lang and Bacchari and Balaga.

By that point, Balaga is like so, he's just like the ultimate veteran at that point. But when you talk to all of them, Corey still feels like the oldest guy. Corey still felt like he was like 40 years old. So not surprising at all that he was the one running the logistical elements of the fine board with the chargers. All right, that is all we got. That was a fun one. Chase, Thank you very much for the time.

And thank all of you for listening. Sincerely appreciate it. Great stuff on the feed this week. Nate and Dane dug into the quarterback class on Prospects to Pros, to Proz, trying to figure out who the hell quarterback three is going to be in this group. So if you are a quarterback needy team, a fan of a quarterback needy team, You have to go listen to this week's episode of Prospects to Prospects to pros. Some great stuff on Kiefer in the Beats this week.

Please go listen to Zach talking to our beatwriters. He does a phenomenal job. Tons of insight every single week. We will be back later this week with our week eight preview. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.