The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In The Pocket: The inevitability of Patrick Mahomes, the latest from the coaching cycle, and the important notes for HC candidates to hit in an interview

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

If it seems strange that a podcast devoted to quarterbacks wouldn't talk much about Patrick Mahomes until January, consider this...Patrick Mahomes is inevitable. Robert Mays and Chase Daniel discuss what it feels like to face up against that inevitability on this episode of The Athletic Football Show's In The Pocket. The guys also dig into the latest in coaching news across the league, and Chase details what he'd want to hear from a head coach candidate in an interview.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me for this week's edition of In the Pocket. It is a long time NFL quarterback, Chase. Daniel. Chase, how you doing, man? What's up?

Good. Good, really good. It's been sort of crappy weather here in San Diego. So I've actually enjoyed feeling like it's actually fall and winter here because that's about as low as it gets. It literally rained for all day yesterday, which is wild for San Diego residents. and they were putting out signs like road is flooded and I'm in my big SUV like no it's not like we've been in way worse than it's just like driving through things so uh weather's looking a little bit

better today but um yeah it's it dude last weekend was the best weekend of the year I thought because look four games eight teams and then now it's championship sunday and quite honestly all four quarterbacks and championship sunday are awesome and we're in for a treat and it's It's going to be a good one. I'm excited to dive into some of these topics, man. It's pretty cool. We got a lot of stuff to chew on here. We'll talk about the quarterbacks from one of the games specifically.

I really dig into the AFC matchup. We haven't talked about Patrick Mahomes much on this show at all. It's funny because when you're so good, when you're the Chiefs, it's almost like just wake me up in January. You know, there's the ups and downs of the season, but he's done so much that there's nothing he can do during the regular season that would top a lot of the years he's already had. So most of the time, most of the year for the Chiefs, it was what's going on with the Chiefs offense,

independent of just accepting that their quarterback is the best player in the NFL. But now that it's all coming together for them and things are starting to click a little bit, we're reminded of what he is in these moments and on this stage. So we'll talk about that. We'll talk about what that performance means for Buffalo and how it's prevented them from getting over the hump here multiple different times. But before we dig into that, there's a lot of news that I wanted to sift through. and we just haven't talked about at all on the show and some that you are well positioned to provide some insight on here. So let's start with the front office news with the Raiders.

And that is Tom Telesco, the recently fired GM of the Chargers, is now immediately getting hired to be the general manager of the Raiders, which we just don't typically see. You know, guys that are GMs, if they ultimately get another opportunity down the line, it typically takes a while, even if they get one. For Telesco to go straight from the Chargers to be the GM from the Raiders, I thought was pretty eye-opening. What was your reaction when you saw this news? Honestly, like, I love Tom. I texted him a few times yesterday. We're texting back and forth and just like, hey, man, like, congratulations. It's a big deal to be able to get another GM job like you'd mentioned.

But my first reaction was probably like a little bit of like, wow. like and not wow because Tom Telesco got it but wow because I thought champ Kelly was going to get it and champ Kelly was the interim GM meshed really well with um you know Antonio Pierce helped him along the way and um you know I sort of just like upset for him because like like champs champ uh Kelly when I was with Chicago for two years like huge believer in me huge believer in everything that that I was about. out and just sort of see his process and steps. And he's a man of God like I am. So like we'd be hanging out in chapel together. We'd be talking about like literally we'd be talking about team building. Like he's 24-7 like team building type stuff. And just knowing his vision on what he wants a team to be like,

no, I don't know if he's going to get another opportunity. But being the assistant GM or whatever they're going to do, I don't think it's out there yet. But I think that was my biggest thing was I really wanted to see Champion get a chance to run a team. But then when you go to Tom Telesco, I mean, it makes all the sense in the world, right? Like you're trying to be the Kansas City Chiefs in that division. That's the one and only thing you're doing. So first of all, they hire somebody who has a ton of experience in the EFC West. The roster from a pure talent standpoint with the Chargers has been excellent.

We just haven't been able to get through the next steps of, of that. And then, look, I think that ultimately what it came down to is Antonio Pierce is a fresh, brand new head coach, right? And I think when you pair him with an experienced GM, like Tom Telesco, is he's a great duty, he's easy to work with, everything in between. I think that's a big win for them. I think that's probably what Mark Davis wanted to do was to pair a younger guy, a new head coach with an older, more experienced guy. And I can understand that. I do think that we've seen some recent examples of teams going with first-time general

managers and first-time head coaches and having a lot of success. Look at what's happened in Detroit. Look at what's happened in San Francisco, which I'm Winston-Kal Shanahan. Those two guys have never been in those roles before. If you look at those front offices, though, there are people with previous experience as general managers when those guys were getting started. And Martin Mayhew was in that 49ers front office before going over to Washington. John Dorsey has been a part of the Lions front office.

John obviously was a GM in Cleveland and then also in Kansas City. So I think it's important to have some experience in the building and making it your GM, I guess, does make sense. I will say, I think by the end, we kind of realized how talent bear in some areas of that Chargers roster were. And the Chargers are in a place right now where they're going to have to tear this thing down for the most part. If you look at their financial situation, it kind of reminds me of where we found a couple

other teams recently, Atlanta and Chicago, where you have to push all your chips in for one reason or another, you get old pretty quickly, you get expensive pretty quickly. I mean, there's a chance that they've got to dig themselves out of a pretty big dead money hole. And I understand how you get to that place if you're the Chargers. I'm sure Brandon Staley was pushing for a lot of those moves. I don't think he's blameless in things like the J.C. Jackson contract, Kille Mack Trade. So there are some moves that they made where they got old, expensive, and missed that you can't solely put on Tom Telesco. And I also think that there are GMs in the NFL that have had some really bad runs

that ultimately kind of turn things around. Like, look what Jason Light is doing in Tampa. So I don't think this is a crazy move. And I don't think that what Tom Telesco's record and with the Chargers should kind of preclude him from ever getting another job. I think going straight from getting fired and putting together a roster that's probably going to need to be completely nuked to immediately getting another general manager job is a little bit surprising to me.

Yeah, I mean, especially when his last loss came to the Raiders, I was 6321, something like that. So man, does it come full circle? And yeah, he's going to have a great interview, right? And at the end of the day, like, you just got to impress the owner there. If you impress the owner, you're in. And it would be interesting to see how much say Antonio Pierce has in some of these roster situation, what the workflow is going to be between those three guys,

Mark Davis, Tom Tillet. and Antonio Pierce. So I would love to be a fly on the wall. First of all, in that interview with Tom Telesco, with him going head to head with the owner who can be a little bit crazy at times, to say the least, and just what that looked at. But obviously he impressed.

And, yeah, I mean, look, I think that his time in L.A. will ultimately come down to, like, hey, we never won a Super Bowl. So in my opinion, as GMs, like, that's the number one thing. you got to win, you got to put together a roster that can compete at the highest level. And until you win a GM, it's a failure. Or until you win a Super Bowl, it's a failure. It just is. And that's the same with head coaches.

Like, I don't care. And we're about to talk about like some of these guys. Like, dude, you've got to win a Super Bowl. Like these playoffs wins are great. And it keeps you around a little bit longer. But ultimately to be great, you've got to win a Super Bowl. Yeah, going back through even some of the recent drafts, like there's been some pretty big misses. Like the tradeout for Kenneth Murray.

is really tough. In 2019, they draft Jerry Tilleri and Nassir Adderly in the first and second round. Both of those guys are no longer on the roster. Even some of the second and third round picks that they've made, there are guys that probably still need to be replaced. And that's like in the recent last couple years. So it's not like they were throwing a hundred there for several seasons and things just kind of ran their course.

And it's like, oh, well, he'll definitely deserve another shot. Like he did an incredible job, it's just time for a change there. I think there are real things to criticize about the way the last four or five, six years went in Los Angeles. And the Raiders immediately signing up for that is curious to me to say the least. Let's stick in the AFC West here. It really does feel like we are getting closer to a Chargers-Jim Harbaugh marriage in this coaching cycle. According to Mike Erfalo, Eventifle Network, this is within striking distance as of Tuesday evening. as someone who spent two years in that building,

what do you think of the prospect of Jim Harbaugh and all that comes with Jim Harbaugh taking over the Chargers? I love that you said all that comes with Jim Harbaugh. He's out there and he's a little goofy and he has certain ways about him that eventually that's why he's always changing teams that wear on you. And at least that's what I've heard from inside other buildings. But quite honestly, like if the,

the chargers can land the plane. When it comes to Jim Harbaugh, I think, like, you have to applaud ownership because it's going to, it's going to be expensive. Right. And they've been talked about, oh, we're like, he's going to completely transform everything about that organization. Look, they're moving into a new, it's like a new, it's like a new age charges. They're finally moving out of this, this rental office that they've had for seven years. They're playing up in L.A. I mean, about time. The We Work Plus that they worked out of for, like five years. Wild, bro.

And I just think, like, I mean, he is the premier candidate outside of Bill Belichick. I don't think Bill Belichick was ever going to go to L.A., but look, I think that they were big game hunting all along. And I think with a guy like Jim Harbaal, who actually does a really good job overseeing both sides of the ball, obviously offensive side of the ball, but he's such a CEO-type level coach too where he can just motivate you in ways. And quite honestly, it's going to be, like you said, it might be a clean house. Like he's going to get all his guys in there.

He's going to get it. And it's going to be built around Herbert. I think you're going to see some of the best ball of Herbert if he ends up getting the job because that offense is always innovative. It'd be interested to see who he's going to hire his offensive coordinator if he gets hired there. And look, the other names that I've been hearing too, like Pete Carroll is making a late push for that job.

And same with Mike Grable, who's still out there. and his name has not been mentioned at anything. I think he's one of the best candidates. So you can tell just by those three guys who have been talked about being in the Chargers Carousel that they're really looking for leadership. And they're looking for a proven leader who's won games at the highest level. And any three of those guys would be a good fit in my opinion. The appeal to Harbaugh in this context seems to be that he's a program builder.

You know, the word culture is going to get thrown around a lot. if there's going to be a certain feel to that building. Brandon Staley was obviously a great X's and O's coach in Los Angeles, what they were able to do defensively. That's why he ends up getting that job. And he's a dynamic personality. He's a good communicator. I can understand where they were swayed by him in the hiring process.

But those elements, that kind of program building side of things with Jim Harbaugh, would you say that's something that they need in Los Angeles based on the way that the last regime went? I would say the, I don't think the culture. was an issue in L.A. I think it came down to just pure coaching, pure talent being able to do what coaches are telling them to do on the field and making big plays and big games. That's what I think it is. Like when I remember my time, I mean, I say I remember my time like it was five years ago.

My time in, in the Chargers locker room, like I walked in and all I've been around my entire life is good locker rooms. And when I say good, it means culture. That means camaraderie between teammates and coaches. Guys like going to work. And I think the biggest thing for me with that is I don't know if like complete reset of cultures need to like come in and oh my gosh. I just think that guys need to work a little harder. I feel like the last few years under Staley, especially in training camp, it was a little bit of an easier training camp because the biggest issue with the Chargers was injury.

So he really put that at the forefront and like, we just want to get our guys through the season. I think they're going to put the nose to the grind. I mean, look, anytime you get a college coach, which he was a college coach for the last seven years or however long it was. Yeah. He's going to come in with like a college mentality. And sometimes guys, I can speak from experience, who have had college coaches, they freaking hate it, man.

Because colleges work, man. You're working their butts off, 18 and 22 year old. Now you're dealing with men who he's had, he's had like obviously success in the NFL. but I think it's going to be a shock for how much they work, how much they do, how much they, and quite honestly, I think they need it. Yeah, I can understand that. And again, trying to just create that feel day to day. And some of these guys who are younger coaches or even like offensive innovator type minds that we talk about,

Kyle Shanahan, Andy Reid comes to mind here, like, those training camps in Kansas City are real. And you hear about the way they practice in San Francisco. And even if we're going to kind of pin these guys as, again, these beautiful. mind type coaches that put their teams at schematic advantages, I think that those coaches go about practice and building that sort of toughness in a very intentional way. And so having that feel to your roster and the type of football team that you are, that does have benefits. And I understand the balance, though, because there are some other teams that with a lot of

these newer, younger offensive coaches have gone the other way. You know, I don't think the Rams have that sort of stringent practice schedule. You think about the Bengals and some of the days off they've taken in training camp and just the way that they approach it. So there's two ways to handle this, but I get wanting to be maybe a little bit more physical and approach it that way if you're the Chargers. And that's what Jim Harbaugh brings you. Yeah, I think so. I do think the feel aspect of it.

It does have to feel different, right? Like doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is literally insanity. And that's sort of how it's been there. They've just done the same thing over and over and over. And it's been the same story over and over and over. So I think they do need a hard reset. And I mean, like, I'm going to go back to my first point, man. Like, Jim Harbaugh arguably is the biggest name of this cycle.

And for the Chargers, right? And obviously, like, I said it. We said it in this show. And I don't know if you agree with me or not. But I thought of all of the head coach openings that there were going to be in the NFL, that the Chargers were at the top of the list. I came out and said it right when he got hired. And it's because of one person, that's Justin Herbert.

You already got your quarterback in place. You already got a legitimate left tackle. You already got two receivers now. They got to figure out what to do with the receiver situation. A good offensive line. They got to replace Corey Lindsay, probably retiring, all this stuff. But I don't think they're that far away. I really don't.

And that's what we've said. Now, will a head coach come in and make the difference between like what they were to what they will be? Yeah, I think a Jim Harbaugh can be that guy. Absolutely. I don't know how far away they are because they have Justin Herbert, but I don't think this roster is going to look the way that it looks now in two years. I don't think it can.

You have so many expensive pieces. They're like $40 million over the cap. It feels like they're set up to nuke this thing this offseason, where you move on from a lot of guys. I mean, I'm talking maybe Mike Williams, you trade Joey Bosa, you potentially cut Kaleo Mack. I mean, those are the things you might have to be. looking at here if you're the Chargers. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

Because if you just take it on the chin in 2024, then you move into 2025 and you pretty much reset the entire thing. You're almost starting over again with Justin Herbert, Ray Sean Slater, whoever you pick with a fifth overall pick in this year's draft, a couple of your other younger draft picks and like Derwin James on the other side. So I think that's kind of appealing for a guy like Jim Harbaugh, where he's like, okay, we're going to do this maybe in one year, the books and then in 2025, I can remake this team how I see fit. And I think that's particularly interesting. It's sort of what the, it reminds me of what the Packers did this year. And it took a little bit and they drafted a lot of, like all their skill players were first and second year guys that I've

never really heard of other than Christian Watson. Really no one had. No one knew what to expect. I think the charges are a better roster than they are at this time. Yeah, you might need to trade some like premier players or cut some guys who are older that maybe can only have one or two years and you're going to look at five years of the future. What do we want to be like through the draft? You know, add some key pieces in free agency. You don't have to overspend to add those. I think it can happen. Let's move to some hiring that have actually happened so far. The Tennessee Titans have hired Brian Callahan as their head coach. We have not done a show since this news happened. He was obviously the Bengals offensive coordinator for the last several years.

I was not surprised to see this because we're in a candidate pool and we're in a candidate cycle where there aren't a lot of ready-made offensive coaching candidates. Aren't a lot of play-calling offensive coordinators. And we're going to see the trickle-down effects of how the last three or four cycles have gone. A lot of these guys have been picked over. We've got so many guys that weren't play callers that have become head coaches because people want to be a part of these trees. And Brian Calhann is the next example of that.

but he did very well when he interviewed in Denver two years ago. He really impressed the Colts when he interviewed there last year. He's a very good communicator. And he has a variety of, he's a background in a variety of types of offenses. I think that the Bengals have had a lot of success over the last few years, even though they're talented. So when this happened, I think a lot of people probably said, oh, Brian Callahan, huh?

I thought that if the Bengals season went at least okay and they were still a good offense, that he would be one of the names that was really popular in this cycle. and that's what ended up happening. I mean, he's one of the first guys hired. The Titans didn't let him go to the other two interviews he had this week. Yeah, I mean, he probably interviewed, I mean, extremely well. And he is, like you said, one of the proven offensive guru play callers out there and just what he's done with Joe Burrow.

I mean, you look at the quarterbacks he's worked with, right? Like, this move tells me that they must really believe in Will Levitz. And so his hiring speaks volume. to me on what the organization thinks in Ron Carthon, Rancarthon believe in Willevis because his work is the best with the quarterbacks, right? This league

is a quarterback like driven league, like bottom line. If you don't have your quarterback, I think that Will Levis showed enough. And now it'll be interesting to see what happens with the roster building, right? Like I think when Amy Adam Strunk decided to

move on from Mike Grable, it was an interesting choice to a lot of people. And you go from this defensive Patriot way, driven heck of a leader guy to now an offensive guru. And I think her biggest thing was, can the GM and the head coach work together? So that just tells me without saying like,

okay, things weren't great between Carthon and Rabel there. And I think with Calihan being a first time coach, he has nothing. I mean, you saw the statement that they're, released today, right? First of all, they gave Rancarthon like EVP status to GM. He is overseeing everything. Coaching staff, football are up. I mean, that is, and then what she said in there, it was like, okay, we believe he is like top of the top. So I was a little surprised, not a little, I was surprised that that statement came out. But you could tell that there was definitely some

bad blood within Carthon and Vrable without actually saying it. I don't even know if there was bad blood as much as there was just a standing that Mike Vrable had within that building, within that organization. And I wouldn't be surprised if ownership was a little intimidated by just the stature and the figure he cut within that organization at times. And I don't know Mike Vrable at all. I can tell you pretty confidently that Brian Callahan and Mike Vrable have two very different personalities.

And I think the prospect of work. working with a head coach that maybe would be a little bit more open to some of those conversations. And again, just not really cut that sort of presence in the building was appealing to the Titans. I'd be shocked if it wasn't. But with Callahan's candidacy specifically, you look back at what the Bengals offense has been over the last four years. And a lot of people are going to say, well, he didn't even call plays. Well, neither did Kevin O'Connell. Neither did Mike McDaniel.

You know, there are a lot of guys who have come from these trees that were offensive coordinators for these play callers that didn't end up calling plays. So I wouldn't be super worried about that. I would be encouraged at the evolution that we've seen from the Bengals offense from 2020 through right now. You look at what they did with Jake Browning this year and some of the success that Jake Browning had when he was just dropped in there. I think that's extremely encouraging. And then you look at the steps they've taken.

In 2020, when Burrow came in, they were running LSU's offense. That is what they were doing. They said, what are you comfortable with, Joe? Let's try to make sure that we build it around those types of ideas. And then over the last couple years, they had to kind of kind of kind of consciously reshape it based on how defenses were playing against them. If you remember what they were like in that year they went to the Super Bowl, it's a lot of explosive plays, go balls, just using that receiver talent.

And then when teams started playing a vast majority of too high coverages against them, I think there was a lot of communication with Joe about, all right, we have to change the way that we're going to play. We have to make sure we're taking what's there. They reshape the running game midstream last year. When I'm looking at coaching candidates, and we have no idea who's going to fail or succeed in these jobs, But I always like when guys have had to reshape their offenses because they've run into problems,

because coaching is a lot of problem solving. And I like guys that have a variety of backgrounds. Jack Taylor comes from that McVeigh kind of tree, even though the offense doesn't really look like that. But Brian Callahan worked with John Gruden, that dropback game with the Raiders is diverse. It's really good. I think you've seen a lot of elements of that Gruden offense sprinkled into other teams recently with have success. And I also think he worked with Peyton Manning. I mean, he has a ton of background in that Peyton Manning sort of offensive system.

So I think he checks a lot of boxes. It reminds me in some ways of when Kevin Stefanski got the job in Cleveland. I think their backgrounds are kind of similar, you know, personality-wise. So I don't know if it's going to work out, but I can understand why the Titans were willing to take this shot at this guy, specifically at this moment of their trajectory. Yeah, all great points. I think the biggest thing, I mean, just talking pure schematics, like he's got an unlawful. Aqua Levis. They're probably moving on from, you know, the king, Derek Henry. They got to revamp the run game. Just the roster offensively is not super talented, especially at skill position, right?

And so when you look at that, like Joe Burrow had Jamar Chase T. Higgins, I mean, like, okay, so yeah, look, there's only 32 jobs. You're going to literally like run to an opening job, obviously if you get a chance, but it will be interesting to see this type of offense. You need skill players, this type. It's not like you can just say, hey, we're just going to like block him up, shots, Will Love. That's sort of not what he does. You've got to have a good run game.

So we'll be interesting to me just to look how Rand and Brian through, because I think this is, you can't just draft really good skill players. I don't know their cap situation, but I would imagine that. It's very healthy because they haven't paid anyone. They have no one on the roster. I think you're going to see, I think you're going to have to see a spending on a receiver one or receiver two in a mid-level running. You have to have successful skill players in his scheme, which that'll be interesting

to see from just like a couple months down the road how they build to that. And I think that's actually a really good thing to observe because if you look at his background and where he's been successful, it's not just in Cincinnati with the skill position players. Look at the receiving talent they had in Denver when he was there with Peyton Manning when it was Wes Welker and Eric Decker and Demarius Thomas. So it's not just Cincinnati. And it's funny, they have a top 10 pick in this draft. They are set up in position to potentially draft a tackle with that pick, which I think would behoove them. They need a left tackle in this mix and they're going to be guys

available in that range. But guess who's a free agent this year? T. Higgins. Hey, there we go. You don't have to necessarily make a big jump. We'll see what happens. if he gets franchised, whatever, but they have some financial flexibility in a potential free agent class of receivers where there might be some talent available. The last thing I wanted to touch on here is the Bill Callahan part of this, because there's speculation, obviously, that he would potentially bring his dad with him as the offensive line coach to Tennessee. My understanding is that the Browns have always been pretty confident that they would be able to hang on to him. He is extremely well compensated. And this was always something they knew was a potentiality. But I don't think it's necessarily a foregone conclusion that Bill Callahan follows

Brian to Tennessee based on what I've been told. I mean, dude, could you imagine growing up through the ranks, following your dad's footsteps, and then you're getting a head coaching job? Of course you're bringing your dad. That's your first hire. It's family. I don't care. I'll double what you're making in Cleveland. That's a lot of money.

That's a lot of money. How much is he making in Cleveland? I think several million dollars. No. Yes. As an old line coach? Yes. Oh, my God.

I would be surprised if he was not the highest, highest compensated position coach in the NFL. Yeah. Say, hey, we'll give you a dollar raise if you come. Come with me. But I guarantee you it's already in the works.

Like, what if some fancy, blocked him from going to his son, son's team. Like, could you imagine that? I don't think that would happen. I don't think that there would be an outright blocking of it. I just think that there will probably be some conversations that happened here over the next week or so. Let's get to some of these other searches.

We don't have to go through these one by one. I wanted to more zone in on a couple candidates as part of these searches. So let's start with Carolina, though. They hired Dan Morgan to be their general manager. He was the assistant general manager under Scott Fitterer. I'm sure a lot of people are looking at this and be like, really? the guy who was the assistant general manager as you built this terrible roster

is the guy that you want to promote. I don't see it like that. I think that you can be the number two to a guy that wasn't really successful and there was just kind of misaligned vision of the franchise where you were with rule and then Wright came in and the owner's all over the place.

I don't have a huge problem with it if they thought that Dan Morgan was the right guy for the job. That's just me though. I don't know. I don't see this initially or immediately and think, what a joke. I can't believe they just promoted a guy

who was already in the building. I was surprised by it. I don't know necessarily if it was a joke. I was surprised because they were so bad at doing this. But let me just say the fact that, like, Dan Morgan was an amazing player. I remember Dan Morgan. He was awesome.

He was amazing. And it just makes me think, like, man, all these guys are getting into, like, getting GM jobs. There's two former players already that have been named head coaches in this cycle. Like, man, I wonder if owners are starting to realize this. Just like sports media a little bit, like maybe these former players are onto something because they've been there. Look at Dan Campbell. I mean, I can name a ton.

And we've talked about this before. I believe that former players with their heads on straight, they really bring you a dynamic within a locker room that just it brings a amount of like about trust within the players within the organization like you've been there you've done i'm not saying that former players should get every single job because that's just not the case like damn i looked at his um i looked at his like list i think he started in seattle or like and he had to work a long time like 10 plus years to be able to be given this this shot so i don't know i just think it's funny how all these like former players are getting jm jobs i mean look at lynch and in in san franc I mean, it's like the list goes on and on.

It makes me rethink maybe getting the sports media versus coaching. I'm like, oh, man. I think your day-to-day schedule is probably a little bit nicer in the sports media world, but it would be if you were the quarterback coach of Team X. So I think you ended up picking the right path. It might be a disaster, but I just don't think that it was just such a weird situation there with the way they built the front office. It wouldn't shock me if he was good, but it also wouldn't shock me if he was bad.

I think that the way that we find these candidates and just saying, I'm going to take the number two from this really good organization because that's how we're always successful here. It doesn't. It doesn't always work that way. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. I think this is more of a crapshoot than people are willing to admit. Getting to the coaching search there, two names I wanted to talk about that are up for seemingly every single one of these jobs. Dave Canellis was meeting with the Panthers today. He's emerged as a real candidate in Carolina. and Bobby Sloak has gotten second interviews with the Falcons and the Washington football franchise. So these are two guys that have one year, two years combined of collective experience as offensive coordinators, and they're already seemingly real candidates for a couple of these jobs.

And why I think this is interesting is that at a certain point, it kind of feels like this offensive play caller bubble has to burst. At some point, it feels like it might be better to go with some of these either defensive-minded head, coaches or these more CEO types and build your staff that way because the pool and the talent pool among these offensive guys is going to be getting shallower and shallower and shallower. And maybe that's not the case. You know, Mike McDaniels had success. And again, we've started digging into this pool of guys that the aren't play callers that have done just fine. But it's really surprising how fast some of this is happening for a couple of these candidates

specifically. Yeah, I mean, look, I get the Bobby Sloick thing. I do. And I get the Connellis thing. Yeah, I do. too. I do too, but let's start with Bobby Sloick. Like, everyone wants the Shanahan style system. What he was able to do with a very small talent pool of players in Houston and his growth in

C.J. Stroud's extreme just like launch into stardom. Like, that to me is sexy. Like that to me, more than anything. else, that to me is like, okay, first of all, this offense, like, that offense in Houston was insane. It took them, he got to install it for six months. Like, could you imagine year two and three and four? And now he had a quarterback, but I think that, I, I hope that the offensive play, play caller bubble doesn't burst because I love it. Every, every offensive head coach I've ever been on, like, it's just been, and yeah, I'm on as quarterback, but it's just being able to

run smoother. Like, like, I, I, I am all for hiring, uh, the hot named offensive coordinator for head coach and then pairing him with a veteran DC who's been a D who's been a D.C. before. I mean, like the perfect example you said at Mike McDaniel and in Miami with Vic Fangio. Sean McVeigh and Wade Phillips. I mean, if you look at what's Kevin O'Connell and Brian Flores right now, like, we've seen a lot of examples of it succeeding. And I'm with you. All things being equal. over the last five to 10 years, I think that going with a play-calling offensive head coach is to me the best way to find sustained success as an NFL franchise.

If you look at the examples, I just think that's true in this day and age. A lot of the guys who are the examples on the other side are guys that are no longer having jobs. Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, the conversation about Mike Tomlin coming out of this season. I do think that things have shifted over the last decade or so. But I think that there are now examples creeping up on the other.

side of this. You look at what Dan Campbell has done. And if you find the right offensive play caller to go with that model, I think that it is a potential way to find candidates that are being undervalued because of the ways that people are seeking out head coaches in this day and age. So that I get both sides of it. I just wonder if we're going to get it to a place where we run out of guys that are of that archetype and we should start maybe looking in a slightly different direction. Yeah. Where does where does, where does, where does Eric Vien of me fall on all this, man? Like offensive coordinator-wise, his name has been mentioned none, and like not at all.

He interviewed for the commander's job. But other than that, I mean, his name's sort of fallen from Brace a little bit too. Where are you hearing on that? He's interviewed for a lot of jobs over the last three, four, five years. He's interviewed for a lot of jobs. And he hasn't got any of them. And I don't necessarily know what to make of that. because being impressive to an owner in an interview shouldn't be the only prerequisite to getting one of these jobs.

And I guarantee you, and this has been reported by multiple people over the last 48 hours. James Palmer said it. Steve Weish said it for NFL Network. Bobby Sloak was impressive to the Falcons. That's not surprising. I've had conversations with Bobby Slok. He is impressive. But again, that isn't necessarily the most important thing or the only thing that matters to getting one of these jobs.

I've made this mistake before with candidates where you have had. half hour conversation with somebody and think, man, that guy is a really good communicator. That guy is very impressive. He should be a head coach. And that's not the most important thing. And that's not the only qualification necessary to succeed in one of these roles. Yeah. I mean, I get it.

I was with him for three years. I just think he's never really gotten a fair shake, to be honest with you. I think that maybe he rubs owners the wrong way in interviews or people or because he's very matter of fact. Like, you either love him or you don't. And he's hard on guys. Like, I mean, there was a whole story in training camp. Remember that whole of it?

Guys, it's called work. You have to work to get better. And, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. But yeah, a lot of good candidates out there. What's interesting to me, too, is like, we didn't really get a chance to talk Dave Canales. But you look at what Dave Canales did with Gino Smith, okay, a couple of years ago. And then what he did with Baker Mayfield.

And just his peak carol type tree of that, like, everlasting energy. Relentless positivity. Oh my God, I love that. That's how I am. I'm relentlessly positive. And so it'll be interesting to see if he gets a job and who the Panthers are going to hire. Because I think the Panthers, I mean, obviously out of this whole like team that needs head coaches are probably the worst job. And so it'll be interesting to see who they end up hiring if they do go another offensive-minded head coach. I don't know. I mean, it's wild.

It's getting close to time where these teams need to hire some because I'm sick and tired of talking about all these candidates. Like, we just need to talk about who they hire and hurry the hell up. The last thing I want to say about the head coaching search, I think it would be surprising and I think it would be a mistake if we went through this entire cycle, and Rahim Morris did not get one of these jobs. He is positioned to get one of these jobs. He deserves one of these jobs.

I can't. We're talking about being impressive in an interview. I can't imagine that like five teams are going to go through this process and come out the other side and decide that Rahim Morris is not the best guy for one of these jobs. It would be so surprising to me. I could see him in Carolina kind of resetting the feel of that building. I could see him in Atlanta. I could see him in Seattle as the guy to take over for Pete Carroll, all of these things.

So I know that a couple of the seats have started to get filled, but it would be surprising to me if Rahe Morris didn't get one of these jobs. And I honestly think it would be a mistake if he didn't. A couple bits of coordinator news very quickly. Packers move on from Joe Barry. Not surprising. I think it was probably going to happen. Joe Barry has a great relationship with Matt LaFleur.

Joe Perry is a very good guy. I'm sure it was not easy for Matt LaFleur to make this decision. But this is one of those, don't let Good be the enemy a great sort of scenarios. Even though they're two best games in the season, two of their best games in the season were their last two games. Their defense struggled all season. We had some really bad offenses have their best outings of the season. against the Packers. And with all of the resources

they've pumped up into that side of the ball, I think trying to swing for the fences with whoever's going to take over that defense is the correct decision. Sticking in the NFC North, the Bears hire Shane Waltern as their offensive coordinator. What do you think of this?

Before I say what I think of it, what do you think of this? I mean, it's a safe higher. I don't think it tells you one way or another what they're going to do with Justin Fields or Caleb Williams, I don't think that's the case. And honestly, when I saw the news,

I said, oh, okay, like pretty even keel, not super excited about it, not super upset about it. I think what they did in Seattle was really impressive, you know, in terms of different formations, personnel groupings, how they attack different defenses. And so, look, I like it from a pure standpoint of he's an older offensive coordinator, he's been, meaning he's done it a lot, he's been around a lot of different, situations and in schemes. And if you bring in a guy like Caleb Williams or Drake May, I think a really good, like, experience offensive coordinator is a must with these guys

because they're learning the ways. And then you go to the other side. And I think if you roll with Justin Fields, I think it's great for him too because I think that he can fit his offense to do what Justin Fields does best. So I think it's the best of both worlds, in my opinion. It sort of tells me that maybe the Bears aren't. haven't really reached a decision if they are going to draft or keep Justin Fields. I don't know if they have.

And I think that keeping those doors open is probably the right move at this stage. No one's making you make a decision on January 23rd. I was not surprised that Waldron is where they landed because I think going with someone who has experience as a play caller makes sense. You know, walking into the unknown here with this being such an important job and such an important offseason, there's real risk in there. I think that worthwhile risk arguably because we've seen some guys get their first crack at this and be really, really good at it. Zach Robinson from Los Angeles and just that offense in general in L.A. That is a name that I'm not surprised that keeps coming up here and that I was particularly intrigued by. But I understand going with somebody who has experience and some pelts on the wall in this role.

And I like a lot of the stuff that Shane Waldron did in Seattle. They were borderline top 10 offense by a lot of metrics over the last couple years, a lot of creativity like you mentioned. I think they did a good job of kind of masking issues with their personnel, especially up front. At times this year, they got really high-level play out of Gino over the last couple seasons. There are some issues to me about maybe like sequencing and feel and just overall play calling versus play design. And when I would watch them, there were some stints that were particularly frustrating when you would watch the Seattle offense over the last couple years. But overall, I really enjoyed watching them. And I think that this is a solid move for a team that.

really just needed a plus answer at this spot. And I think that's what they got. Yeah. Yeah, but, but you said solid move. Like, dude, the bears don't need solid. They need great. And that's what, like, like, I'm not saying, I don't know. This is, this is the franchise, by the way,

that just kept Matt Eber Fliss. This is the franchise that just kept Matt Eber Fliss. I want, and I want to remind you of this. And of the decisions that this team often makes, that this is a team that's just like, we just, we want something that we can rely on here. And I think this is another one of those moves, even if I am at the end of the day excited about it. I do think that he has shown enough and those Seattle offenses were good enough that this can be a very good result at the end of the day. But again, I think that this is in line with a lot of the other types of decisions that we have seen this organization make, especially recently.

So going beyond this cycle specifically, I wanted to ask you this as somebody who has been in, I was in the league for a long time. You know, you're an NFL PA member. You're a part of high-level conversations. You have a perspective about the NFL that I think lends well to this discussion. If you were in these conversations, if you were in these interviews with the head coach, what would you want to know? What are the things you would want to come away from this understanding about a candidate? You know, when I was going through this last night and we talked about it on Monday that we wanted to talk about this,

I go back and forth because my answer changes for the title. of franchise that you're in? Are you a franchise that is just down in the dumps right now, like Carolina, and you just have no, no vision out? Or you're like a Seattle where you have a really good wealth of talent pool around you. Infrastructure. Yeah. Yeah. Or is it like the Falcons where you're sort of in between, you think you can be good, you're in a really winnable division. And so, I mean, they're all different for all three of those. I think the biggest thing, for me, being in these type of conversations, being in different locker rooms with different style head coaches is, what are you going to do to set the culture? I think the culture aspect

of head coach hirings, what do you want the building to look and feel like on a day-to-day basis? Because you said it. You said that to me is the most important thing, I think. Give me an example of where you see that. in terms of how the building feels a certain way. Is that meetings? Is that what the locker room is? Is that what the schedule is? Like how granular are we talking here?

Everything. Yes. No, super granular. Like when a player walks into a building, is he wanting to show up to work? Is he wanting to have fun? Is he going about his business in a way that,

just take the Seahawks, that's the Seahawk way? Like what Pete Carroll did, are you going to continue it? Are you not? How do you want a player to? feel. How do you want meetings to feel? How are you going to talk to the team? Are you going to rah-rah them? Are you going to tell them the truth? Are you going to give them different examples?

Are you a long talker at meetings? Are you going to do hour-long meetings? Are you going to be like a five-minute meeting and it's going to be profound like Andy Readings? Right. Are you going to say a lot of words? You're not going to say other words. How are the meeting schedules going to look? How are the, what food are we going to serve? What is the lifting schedule? What is the parking alignment in like do vets get the park? Dude, I'm telling you super great. Because when you think it's silly and people listening might think it's silly, every single thing matters when you hire a brand new coach, brand new head coach. And forget about football. Forget about the X's and O's. You wouldn't be in this meeting room right now. if you didn't know X's and O's.

I don't care about your exes and O's. You got here because your X's and O's. We know you're going to do it. That's obviously why we hired you. So I think that's a huge deal for me. Are we going to be able to spend money? Are we going to be able to, do you want to be aggressive? Do you want to build through the draft?

Do you want to build through free agency? Do you want to do a little bit of both? How is the day-to-day going to look like with the owner? Talks with the owners. I'm not going to have to talk to the owner every freaking day. How is it? I mean, they're so. many things on the look in the feel of the building.

And the second thing, which we got to this conversation, and I don't know if I've had it with you. I go back to the Dan Campbell situation. And when he had Anthony Lynn there in 2021, he hired him. And he had Ben Johnson in the building who had never called play before. I was with Ben Johnson in 2020. Okay, before everyone was fired. He was like one of the lone left-up.

over's on the staff. He was tight-ins coach. And look, I think what Dan Campbell did, he hired who he thought was an experienced OC, and it just didn't work out. He was able to fire Anthony Lynn midway through the season, promoted himself for a few games, if you remember, the calling plays, didn't go super well. And then he was like, you know what, Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson took it off and ran with it. And now three years later, or two years later, look at Ben Johnson. So he hired the right coordinator. Look at the DC now in Detroit. I was with him. Aaron Glenn in New Orleans. Amazing. And why I say all this is Dan Campbell, yes, he had never been a head coach. He had never been a play caller, but he hired the right coordinators. That to me is the number two thing you have to look

at, say, okay, we got all this, how the building feels like, who are you hiring to help? because it is the single most important thing for a head coach is to hire a staff that one, he can trust, two, they see the exact same vision that he does. And three, is able to explain it in a way that you don't have to oversee and linger in meeting rooms to make sure it's getting coach the right way. Those are the things that I would want to know. Everything else to take care of itself. The biggest two things, though, how's the building look and feel and then hire the right coordinators?

I am so glad that you said the second one because that is the first thing that I was going to mention. I would want to know what your staff looks like and why. Because we've seen teams rise and fall because of that. The lions are the best example. Them hiring Ben Johnson and them hiring Aaron Glenn. Aaron Glenn's been up and down in terms of defensive schematics. But people love Aaron Glenn. Aaron Glenn is very well respected.

People have very high opinions of Aaron Glenn. And you look at other guys that they've hired for those staff. What Haig Frey has done as the offensive line coach, there was a report earlier, this week that the Ben Johnson was going to potentially try to take Hank Frilly away as the offensive coordinator in Washington. That's going to happen more and more often, by the way. We are going to see that start happening. Frank Smith was an offensive line coach before he was an offensive coordinator. Adam Stenevich, who is the Packers offensive line coach, was promoted to offensive coordinator. We're going to see these teams promote these guys to OC if you have

a play caller that's already in the building in order to prevent them from taking jobs elsewhere and protect offensive line coaches that are quality coaches. That is going to continue to happen. But you look at all around the league, I just think that teams that are really, really thoughtful about who's going to be next up, why is this guy in this role? Because we've seen teams with really good CEO-type head coaches

that end up falling off because they don't have answers when the coordinators either fall short or when the coordinators end up going somewhere else. Mike Vrable was rolling when Arthur Smith was there as his offensive coordinator. They struggled when they had to try to replace him. P. Carroll cycled through offensive and defensive coordinators over the last four or five years as they were trying to land on something. Look at what happened in New England with Bill Belichick and their inability to find someone to run that offense successfully over the last couple years.

So I want someone that has his ear to the ground when it comes to the talent around the NFL. And I think that Dan Campbell's time as an assistant coach for as long as he was won in all of these days, different places and all these different roles positioned him well to build the right staff and set up for these sorts of situations that we're talking about. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Those are easily, I mean, you can get into it. I mean, we could tell a whole show, but I think what we said is super important.

And it's just the look and feel of the building. And then I'm glad you agree with me on the coordinator situation. Because it is, you've seen, I mean, if you're a CEO type coach and your main job, is to set the look and feel of the building. And you're doing that. Like, that takes up so much time. And so you have to be able to trust. And I've been a part of a situation.

I'm going to say where you don't really trust the defensive coordinator to be coaching it. Just how you thought it would be coached. And then it comes back on you ultimately for your job in your head if it doesn't work out. You look at what Sean McVeigh has done in identifying coaching talent over the last five years. It's been crazy. And I think that Kyle Shanahan has done a really good job of that in San Francisco, where he's, I mean, keeps cycling through these guys. D'emico Ryan's getting promoted to be a defensive coordinator. D'emico going elsewhere.

Brings in Steve Wilkes, he's done a really good job. The having to reshuffle your staff consistently on the other side of the ball, on your side of the ball, whatever, is going to be part of this if you're going to be a successful coach. And I think identifying coaches. And the other thing, last thing I'll say about this, what is your plan for developing your coaches? do you have a coach development plan? Because as the head coach, that is part of your purview, is making sure you're getting the most out of those guys, and they're growing and developing under you within that building.

So that would be one of the first things I'd want to know. So it's comforting that someone with your perspective and all this also feels that way. Let's get to the divisional round and a couple of the performances that we watched. As I mentioned at the top of the show, we have not talked about Patrick Holmes much on this podcast. Again, because it feels like we've seen everything. that he showed us during the regular season. But playoff time is his time.

And the performance that he put together against the bills last week is just such a reminder of what it feels like to watch him in these moments. The stat I wanted to throw out was this. The last three times the Chiefs played against the bills in the postseason, the last three. So the conference championship game a few years ago and then the two divisional games that we've seen in 21 and 23. Patrick Mahomes is average 0.480. EPA per dropback.

Just for context, that is more than twice what he put up as the MVP of the NFL in 2022. He's averaged 8.7 yards per attempt. In the playoffs, this is the playoffs. This is supposed to be the best competition that you're going to be playing against. And so I wanted to ask you, even though it wasn't the playoffs, you played against him a lot over the last couple of years. You guys played them four times, obviously, during your time in Los Angeles with the chargers. When you're on the other side in one of these high leverage games and one of these

high leverage moments and he's the other quarterback, what does that feel like? You got to be perfect. I mean, you got to be perfect. That's what the reason is behind a lot of teams getting into their own head a little bit, like feeling like you have to do a lot more than what you should. So it's the psychological effect of like, okay, it gets you out of your game sometimes. I mean, that's just the truth. When you see what Mahomes has done, I mean, six years as a starter, six straight AFC championship games, like, what? What? Like, are you kidding me? It's insane. Two straight playoff wins in six years. Like, I, like, and the reason we don't talk about Mahomes is because everyone knows Mahomes is king. Now, I thought that his, um, his, um, his,

journey to this point, though, this year with what he had to deal with on that offense, I think it made him a better player because he's never had to deal with it. They averaged almost a touchdown less than any other year as a starter. If you look at just the pure stats of Mahomes, it's almost his worst in all six years he's been a starter. Okay. But he's still in the HFC championship game because it don't matter because he's freaking Patrick Mahomes.

He's the king of all kings, dude. And he just had to, he had to go. into the playoffs and just remind these people that, dude, don't mess with Mahomes. Like, don't. Because I will say, like, from a pure like football junkie breakdown standpoint when I broke down,

I mean, I watched them almost every week because I like to see, not only Mahomes play, it's great, but I like to see what they're doing offensively, like, schematic wise. And I just, I think that he played okay this year. I

I thought that this definitely wasn't his best year. I don't think it was his worst year overall in terms because there was a lot of drops. There was a lot of issues with those tackles. And then I think when the lights shine the brightest, that's when he plays the best. Man, that's when he plays the best because you look at the Miami game. And after the Miami game, I was like, oh, man, like, they could have something here. They could start clicking. It only took them 17 games to start clicking.

And then the performance they put on, which a top six defense in every category, Buffalo was into divisional round. And oh, by the way, you take my homes on the first true other than Super Bowl road playoff games he's ever done. And it was like, oh, it's a big deal. It's a big. No, it's not. Look at his career record.

Before this game, he was 38 and 11 on the road, 36 and 11 at home. He's better on the road. So why were people talking about that? Like, do your research. And I think just the thing that sticks out about him is he was. he was so efficient. They only had 46, 47 plays. They averaged over seven yards of play,

and they ran the ball well. It looks like an offense that's starting to click finally after 17 games, and that's a scary thought for a lot of people. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that watching the way that he again just rose to the moment, it's just a reminder that he's different. He's different.

The prospect of playing him is different. The threat of him is different. He played an almost flawless football game. Again, again, you go back, watch that entire game, and there are maybe like two or three plays over the course of the game where he misses a throw. They stole out in the red zone one time. Other than that, he pretty much played a flawless football game. And it's not just some of the throws he made, which were ridiculous.

I mean, the vertical route to MVS that he like puts on his shoulder. that's second and eight. I mean, it was beautiful. And there was a second and eight. We've talked about it a couple different times where the bills brought a simulated pressure. And then they had two guys, two linebackers kind of come around unblocked around the right side. He stepped up and hit M.B. Up on that crosser multiple different times where he's avoiding a sack.

Multiple different plays where the timing on a throw is absolutely perfect. He had a throw to Rishi Rice in the red zone that was on like a little stick where it was cover three and the nickel was. in the flat. And if he doesn't throw it immediately on time, the nickels just coming back and crushing Rishi Rice. It's a huge play. The first play to Travis Kelsey out of the back, the corner out to Travis Kelsey out of the backfield. Everything was just so on time, so on time, so accurate, and just it just reminds, I've said this before, and this is kind of, I keep coming back to this. It's just like, it's Michael Jordan, right? Like, this is what we're dealing with. Like, he is NFL Michael Jordan. And until he, he's, he, he's, he.

he doesn't rise to the moment in one of these games, then that's the distinction that he deserves. That is the type of player and the type of just presence within these playoff games that we're talking about here. He's carried the team. He's carried the team on offense. Obviously, the defense is the best, easily,

easily the best defense he's had in six years. I think that's been a big case. He's, hey, he's protecting the ball a lot more understanding that a punt is not necessarily a bad thing. I'd say the one thing that I was a little annoyed about in his first five years was he would throw some balls up for grabs.

He really would. And I think what you're seeing him do this year, especially these last two games, especially this whole season, actually, with no true number one receiver going into the year. No true number one. Like, they didn't give him a number one receiver. They thought it was in the UBS.

I thought it was going to be Cadarious Tony. They thought it was going to be, and then they draft this guy Rishi Rice. I would ask you, and all of a sudden now it's Rishi Rice. He's made Rishie Rice into the guy who he has. But I will say, like, the development of Rishie Rice, has been key to this offense's sustained success.

And I think the biggest thing, and you heard Matt Nagy say it, and I sort of noticed it too, they're stopping, they're not rotating guys as much at the receiver. And they're saying, hey, Justin Watson, Rishie Rice, Travis Kelsey, Noah Gray, and, you know, Mikul Harman got in there a few times. Like, that's it. And you guys are playing the whole game when you need something, tap your head, go out.

And I think those reps with just the same five skill guys has gotten to be a really good, I think, lever of where their sustained success could go. And it's the development, I think, of Rishi Rice. I think Rish Rice has played about as good as anyone since week 12 as a receiver in the national football. It's been so nice to see him do some of the more feel for the position type stuff as well over the last couple weeks. He had that reception against the dolphins where it kind of settles into a void in the zone. A couple of plays within structure against the bills last weekend. I mean, just stuff that shows a.

a comfort within this offense that maybe goes beyond, we're just going to throw you some bubbles and some crossers and rely on your athletic ability, which is the type of development you want to see out of a young receiver. So we talk about this. You have to be perfect in order to beat him in these moments. And that brings us to the Josh Allen part of this and to the bills part of this. Because I don't know what you thought after rewatching that game or just watching that game.

I thought that Josh Allen was magnificent in that football game. everything they asked him to do essentially for 96% of the plays in that game. The sack avoidance, the scrambling, making something out of nothing when it wasn't there, the decision making overall, what he was doing with his legs. And I think the huge part of this is that MVS catches that vertical throw. Trent Sherfield does not. Those are the margins that we're talking about here. If Trent Sherfield makes that play on a similar quality throw from Josh Allen,

I think it was at the end of the second half, and eventually they have to punt on that drive, that could potentially swing the game. If Stefan Diggs makes a play on that one vertical throat on the right side of that and that 65-yard bomb, maybe the game goes a little bit differently. So we're talking to me about like three, four, maybe five plays that end up making the difference here. And that has nothing to do with Josh Allen. Talking about that 0.48 EPA dropback stat with Mahomes, Josh Allen and his last two games against the Chiefs is at 0.3-1.

Okay, that's like MVP level plus play against the Chiefs in the last two games, but he lost both of them because the guy on the other side is an alien sent from outer space who is playing quarterback at like a level that we very rarely see in the playoffs. So now that taking a step back and thinking about that and just the role that he had in that game and why they won or lost, what is your kind of biggest question moving forward here about the bills as they keep running into this Patrick Mahomes size scene? consistently in the playoffs. Well, I think that the hate shown toward Josh Allen and Sean McDermott, should Sean McDermott be the coach? Should you not, come on, guys. Like, look, I get it. I get it because you were six and six December the third.

You just fired your offensive coordinator, weren't sure what was going to happen. And then you win five straight games, six straight games, including the playoffs. And you take Mahomes down to the freaking wire. Okay, it's Mahomes we're talking about. Now, three years of McDermon and Buffalo has been, Mahomes has ended their season. So, like, yeah, I think the biggest thing you're talking about here is, like, can the bills get over the hump? It's not even the hump. It's can they get past Mahomes?

Because when Mahomes is playing, he's getting to the AFC championship game. If you want any luck at bidding homes, and you finally got them at your house, too. Like, I would say that this season went in three different ways for the bills. The preseason, in my opinion, they were talked about as being there in the final two, final three, and they were. And it was all this hype like, this is finally the year. And they go six and six. And you're like, oh, I'm off the wagon, man. No way this team sucks.

Myr-Dermit. Josh Allen can't play. Josh Allen turnovers. And then they just start reeling off when after win after win. And they're doing it a different way. And really, they should have beat Philly, I thought. And like I just think that this is what you want Josh Allen to be. Not Superman and not superhero at all times.

But I mean, the dude ran for 18 touchdowns this year. Like uses legs. That unlocks them. Okay, run the football, take some pressure off them, which they did. Right. They were one of the top five rushing teams in the league since Joe Brady took over. And then when it's time to make some plays, man, protect the football and make some plays. And I just think that it's just, it's unfortunate, man, because, look, Josh Allen was 17 and 0 in his career.

17 and O in his career when he did not turn the football over. He had no giveaways. He had no giveaways in this game. It was his one loss. He's now 17-1. It's his nemesis, Patrick Mahomes. So I think that's the bigger issue. I know there's some financial stuff that they got to get through, but in the dig situation is always a little bit weird to me,

fell off. Shakir had more receiving yards in him his final 10. All that stuff needs to get talked about. But I don't, they're not far off. They're not. They lost three points to freaking Patrick Mahomes. Brandon B. coming out and saying yesterday, we don't need to tear this thing down to the studs. That's not what this is. I agree with him.

You're a handful of plays away from beating the chiefs in that game and potentially having to go to Baltimore to play in the AFC championship. And I also think that's part of this is that people are going to look back on the history of the Josh Allen playoff experience. Be like, oh, they only only made one AFC championship game in all these years. That's because he played the chiefs in the divisional round multiple different times. If you're playing anybody else, there are a lot more AFC championship games on that resume. So I think that's more about the timing of when you played the games more than the quality of team that you had.

But that's either here nor there. The roster itself, that's going to be the problem, is that you have Josh Allen. And when you have Josh Allen and I think an offensive infrastructure that is promising, right? The offensive line is likely going to come back next year. You have Josh Allen. I wouldn't be surprised to see Joe Brady be the offensive coordinator. There's a lot of good things happen on that side of the ball. The problem with this game was not the offense.

The offense was excellent. The problem is that they couldn't stop anybody on defense. And there are a lot of injuries, and that's important to acknowledge. No, no, Terell Bernard. You got guys banged up at corner, all of that. But the defense is getting old and it's getting expensive. This team is like $40-something million over the cap next year. and they can save some money easy.

They'll just restructure Josh Allen's contract. They'll get his cap hit down to like 20, 25 million. But there aren't that many other places where they can easily save money just by restructuring some of these guys. Diggs and Von Miller are two of the only guys with big base salaries on that roster. And the Von Miller contract is already a problem. This is the risk you ran into by giving him three guaranteed years at his age. That's an issue. And I agree that there's like weirdness with Diggs.

I just, and even beyond the personality stuff, it just doesn't feel like they're using him as a number one receiver right now. Like his prominence within the offense doesn't feel like that. And I don't know if that's just because strategy reasons, if that's because they feel like he's not worth that sort of usage right now. So there are a couple questions that they're going to have to answer. But I agree with you. I mean, I think that with what Josh Allen is and with some of the other talent on the roster, this is not something where you need to have a full-scale blow up. No, and I think with the Diggs situation, so I looked into it. I went back and looked at the games, and I think since the, I mean, it's really since

week six, he's sort of been, not phased out, but going into week six, he was having like 101 yards a game. Since week seven, he's averaging 51 yards a game, half the targets, only three total touchdowns. But I do think that it's not necessarily what Diggs is doing. I think it's just the way Josh Allen's playing. I think it's the way that Josh Allen is truly just trusting progressions and going through it. Hey, the ball needs to go here. Okay, I'll throw here. No one needs to go there.

Okay. And not just maybe targeting digs because it's digs. And I don't know what big likes that. But, you know, it's players not play. So when you do need to play, maybe in the past, Josh Allen would turn it over trying to force something to digs. So I think that what Joe Brady got was just run the offense. Don't worry about who's out there. And I think it's become a situation now that's just overly talked about in my opinion. It's a great point. I think that's totally. reasonable. But there are some plays specifically in that game where you got a three by one sort of set on like a third down. And Diggs is running like a clear out on the three receiver side rather than him being like, okay, this is your one on one. If you have it, let's take it.

You think about the deep shot to Shurfield. The Shurfield was like the singled up X receiver in a bunch of these looks. And they've used Diggs in a bunch of different ways. I don't think that's necessarily the only way that you can use him. but I'm just curious what the personnel at receiver and the deployment of those guys is going to look like moving forward. Because I think in this game specifically without Gabe Davis, you saw some of the shortcomings of the way that that team was built. They, in my opinion, need a true number two receiver coming out of this offseason. Whether that's something you seek out in the draft, something you seek out in free agency, because they just did not have enough explosive plays this year.

This is a team that finished second and offensive success rate. They moved the ball consistently. I thought that they showed a really good formula for that in the second half of the season, but they finished 17th in explosive play rate, which is just not something you'd expect out of the bills, but I think it's something they have to think about and at least try to address here moving forward. Because that reliability of the run game and the ball control passing game

was on full display again in that game, but eventually you're going to need to get back to a place where you have the guys who can give you explosives in some of these moments. I agree. And I think a lot has to deal with how teams were deploying defensively around Josh Allen. They were just playing them in too high. And sometimes it can be hard to get these explosive plays versus too high,

but it's the exact same point that you brought up about Callahan and the Bengals, right? They sort of retooled their offense to understand, hey, you don't always have to make these 50-yard throws. You can get explosive plays by throwing underneath, but you've got to give our receivers the right way to do it. And I think that's why they got so good at running the ball, and they ran for a ton of yards since Joe Brady took over. James Cook burst under the scene as somebody who they thought could really,

handle it and showed that it is. So they got a good piece there. Yeah, they just got to retool the offense a little bit. Yeah, and I think that having that running game and having that kind of consistent place that you can turn when you want to find reliable offense, that's something that they didn't have in years past. So I think that trying to retool it a little bit where you get back to a place where you can be explosive, I think that is not necessarily the most difficult challenge.

I could see them potentially getting there with a couple specific tweaks. All right. That is all we got. We got big time games this weekend. Excited to dig into them next week. We're going to have a ton of stuff to talk about. For now, that is all we got. I sincerely.

I appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.